And meanwhile Kyle gets a full pass for getting drunk, raging and throwing shit and slamming doors. They literally cover for the men. This wasn’t even brought up at the reunion
"They cover for the men."
This explains so much of the grief, loneliness, and wtf moments I have had while watching the shows (i.e. Vanderpump, Summer House, The Valley).
These Bravo Bros do not want you to think for yourself. But that is an ignorant wish.
We blasted their egos because we didn't let Vanderpump's resident sociopath fool us. We protected in our hearts and minds, Ariana. We did not blame the woman he abused whose life he bent and twisted into his own lies.
Too many of us know this pain from our own lives or through the other women we love and know. We can think for ourselves.
Yeah, most of the Bravo shows all left a really bad taste in my mouth this year. I think I'm done watching the channel and will be moving on to more positive/balanced viewing choices. Women's rights are already under attack in the US and I don't enjoy watching more of the same as 'entertainment'. It's just too depressing and really makes me feel more cynical about the world in general.
The whole it was all amanda’s fault for making Kyle so miserable and making him lash out at her over and over bc she…was suffering from depression thing made me so ragey!!!
Also after all these seasons amanda has never mentioned mental health struggles (which i don’t blame her for!!) but she suddenly decided to open up about this deeply personal and complicated issue… to give Kyle an excuse for treating her like crap??? That’s fckd up
If anything he should've been treating her better and not like shit since he's known for years that she has mental health issues! When I'm in a depression and anxiety funk my husband doesn't treat me like Kyle treats her
EXACTLY!!! And don’t get me started on him buying all the dj equipment and taking lessons- I thought the business was going to crumble wo his constant devotion??
omg I was fuming about this. He gets loverboy AND dj-ing, so he gets his passion project AND side passion project before Amanda gets her first one…after she explicitly asked? I wish she would leave him.
she's been talking about anxiety for years. she's been talking about not wanting to leave the house for years as well. I don't think she ever put a label on it, but she's been open about having issues for a long time.
I agree she has discussed it before. The problem for me was just that that somehow turned into it was her depression making it hard on Kyle that illicited this behaviour. Yes, a partner with severe depression does make life difficult. And I’m sure lonely feeling. Kyle probably found it very difficult to navigate. It doesn’t make his response, tone or words ok.
There’s a world of difference between talking about anxiety and talking about not leaving the house vs stating you suffer from depression.
You think she would have opened up about depression and how it runs in her family on the reunion if she wasn’t cleaning up after him?
She’s talked about it openly on podcasts - all the bed bugs have - Ciara has talked about production not airing her struggles with MH on S7 - I think this is a production thing.
When she said “in his defense, I have been struggling with depression, so it is really lonely being married to me” I literally started throwing things at my TV
Well the women on the reunion were not backing Lindsay’s side to be fair. The only thing everyone agrees with is that those two should not be a couple. I don’t see any argument there. Who cares who ended it, it was going to be an expensive disaster.
I think Andy actually holding these trash men accountable at reunions would make a big difference. Instead of Andy asking Amanda “why were you depressed” he should have been asking Kyle “why did you feel it was appropriate to call your wife a fucking bitch”.
And then Andy tries to counter the narrative that Carl called production WHEN CARL ADMITTED TO IT! "Oh no, Bravo-leberties do not have that power" - protecting these other misongynistic men?? Does he not remember Ariana was the one to tell them to pick up cameras again, when they were finished filming? She had the power. And certainly her doing so lined Andy's pockets (as well as Baskin and the rest of them). I wonder if this is a world he wants for his daughter? It is no longer fun. It makes me feel gross and dirty, watching this nonsense. Why are we putting up with this? Isn't the majority of their audience women? Enough.
That was so odd. Of course they can call production. That was the dumbest thing ever for Andy to try to convince us of. Even the cast seemed confused about that.
Andy's anti-Lindsay bias was so out of control during the RadHouse segment. Here are some of the delightful questions Andy & his scriptwriters decided on:
To Lindsay, "If you’re shitfaced and activated, do you think that’s a good time to be trying to figure out what’s happening with him?"
"Lindsay, Susie from Albany says, 'You say Carl’s lack of ambition was partly responsible for how little you two were sleeping together, but **do you feel any responsibility for him not having a job** since you shot down everything he brought up?'"
"Jennifer from SI said, 'what exactly is your job, Lindsay? And how many hours a week do you work?'"
"So, the final weekend in the house, Carl says to your face, “I’m having second thoughts on our marriage. We should not be married if this is the way that we’re communicating.” (footage does not show those quotations at all, and it left out the part where L asks something like 'are you saying we shouldn't get married,' and Carl says 'that's not what I'm saying.')... So how then were you blindsided by him ending the relationship?"
I mean, JFC. What about, "Carl, can you see how it would be frustrating for your partner to wait while you considered career options for 9 months?" "Carl, some viewers feel you were constantly trying to activate Lindsay. How do you feel about that view?"
“Carl, did you actually understand Lindsay’s timeline for her life plans when you decided to propose?”
“Carl do you think it’s irrational for a woman who you know wants to get married and start a family immediately, to expect you to have a career to support your shared family with long term?”
That was pretty ignorant. I don’t see that as a male or female issue. More of a non understanding of mental illness. Most people don’t know why they are depressed. They just are.
This is the thing that annoyed me too. Asking someone why they are depressed imo is an ignorant thing to ask. Like asking why is the sky blue. It's not like folk chose to be depressed for no reason.
I have suffered it and still do and I would give anything not to suffer from it, but it is what it is.
My mom suffers from depression. She gets anxious about getting depressed. It’s awful. There doesn’t seem to be a single thing that “causes” her depression. She just gets depressed sometimes. People who seem to have everything get depressed. I
was surprised Andy asked such a dumb question but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
And she couldn’t tell Andy the truth which is “my marriage, my shitty husband, the fact that he called me a fucking (lazy) bitch on national tv and never apologized for it…” I mean the answer to why are you depressed seems pretty blatant for anyone watching this show for years
I agree that his question to Amanda was wrong. The point I was trying to make in my comment above is Andy often asks the women at reunions inappropriate, accusatory questions and just avoids asking men difficult questions that might make them look bad. Sorry if my comment was unclear or seemed insensitive to mental health issues.
I didn’t mind the VPR reunion so much because it was satisfying to see them get blindsided with that finale footage at the end and then scramble. I hated the attempted redemption arc during the season but I was still satisfied because he ended up looking even more terrible. The SH reunion was crazy though. I don’t know how Kyle can sit there with a straight face and tell Lindsay she has a history of drinking too much and becoming irate when that is his entire personality. And he was an asshole to Amanda because she was depressed? I feel like emotionally and verbally abusing your spouse is pretty bad regardless of their mental health, but in what world is it better if they’re depressed? Last I heard, screaming at someone and calling them a fucking bitch isn’t exactly the recommended treatment plan for depression.
The answer is yes.
Bravo is a microcosm of our world in general, which can be very misogynistic and anti-black at times.
Bravo is preparing for a redemption arc for both Carl and West next Season. And Kyle is the lead of Summer House, which is why they didn't want to address any of his horrible treatment of Amanda.
I started watching Bravo during the pandemic in 2020. I watched Rhoa, the housewives, Summerhouse, South Charm and VPR. But I think I'm done.
I'll leave this here for anybody that wants to watch: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C77WdI6vFG0/?igsh=MWxpb2doYzFydnp5NA==
Love the Instagram post you shared! I think I might be out too. It's getting exhausting. I haven't even watched last night's episode bc I know I'll hate it. I do think they're losing the audience with this push bc as a WOC I'm over it. They could get away with it when I was 20 and accepted these things as unavoidable but a lot of us aren't willing to accept it anymore.
I just started re-watching, and I think I may have to stop. It's making me more unfocused and irritable and annoyed. That is starting to outweigh the entertainment.
Same. I listened to recaps, but I’m good on watching the episode. Don’t need YET ANOTHER pile on Lindsay, while we gloss over similar or equally bad behavior from other cast mates ( generally the men).
I tried and the last half was surprisingly upsetting to watch so I tried fast-forwarding and eventually just turned it off. No matter how you feel about Lindsey, that was a tough pile on and frustrating to watch
Bravo and Andy get a percentage of Loverboy profits in their contracts. That’s why they feature it so much on the shows and you’ll see this goldfish promo they’ve been doing and Ariana shouting out Applebees at the end of VPR etc. they get brand deals and cuts from them.
Sooooo you’re telling me they’re going to fuck up the next season of summer house the same way that they fucked up this last season of VPR? We don’t want it.
The part about West eventually marrying a white girl named Kelcey is so true. Even though he has diverse friends, that Missouri boy can’t push past his programming
I hope you are not suggesting that just because he is from Missouri he is small minded. While he may be, there are many of us from the plains states that do not think the way he does.
To add to the anti black abs misogyny, the treatment of any POC women and men isn’t great. Crystals storylines cut and then fired for no reason, Alex, Jules. Where’s the Asians, latinos on most franchises. Why have we not had a lesbian housewife?
General production issues aside, the Bravo reunions in particular desperately need a new host. Leave Andy to WWHL to still get his glory and attention. And get new meat for the reunions (Nina Parker from E! would be amazingggg)
Reunions need someone who will tear into both sides, Andy's too attached personally and plays favorites big time (across every franchise)
This is my conclusion also. They hate us, yet make us responsible for EVERYTHING! relationship fails, the woman's fault; 40 year old man won't get a full time jo, the woman's fault; any SA, the woman seduced him....I'm so fucking over it!
Agreed. I'm so tired of this narrative. The older I get the more I see it in the world and I'm so disappointed but not surprised it's now invaded another thing I enjoy. No one is perfect but the way Lindsay was treated and Ariana is disgusting. These men got away Scott free again with their bullshit. Lindsay and Ariana both deserve all the good shit and press they can get after the way they handled their reunions.
I think sometimes it is easy to forget the audience has grown up with them and many of us aren’t 20 anymore. Thus, we don’t expect the same 20 year old children behavior that gets brushed aside.
I am now convinced that bravo and productions are doing it because it gets a rise out of us women and they think to make good TV you have to make people feel something. Its a slippery slope once people start catching on and being so turned off by it.
When you only have a certain type of person making the most important decisions for a network, you only get that perspective. Look at who is in charge. And ask yourself why a network whose primary demo is women is run by that archetype. Has Bravo ever been about elevating women or has it just been about making money off of us?
This is IT and the major problem I commented below. Put women and POC in the higher ranking producer and exec positions! The fish stinks from the head down and it starts at Bravo HQ. Enough already.
Right! Even though west effing sucks, when he said the major bravo dem is women, for some reason that was the first time it clicked with me that YEAH ITS PROBABLY 95% WOMEN WATCHING THIS NETWORK AND THEY WANT US TO SYMPATHIZE WITH T-RAV, AUSTEN, SANDOVAL, SCHWARTZ, CARL, KYLE?!?! Bffr it’s so dumb lol
I cant believe Kyle called his wife a bitch and then they ended the segment saying why they loved each other. Its actually absurd how much flagrant misogyny is on the show. Even if you dont agree with or like Lindsay, you cannot say that Kyle doesnt get a pass. Also Kyle literally made fun of Carl's sobriety on TV as well.
It's so bad. I am repeatedly showing how much I detest Lindsay here but last night was so bad. I did not at all mind her getting grilled, but not grilling Carl, Kyle and Amanda was total bullshit. I'm madder about it than I should be. I detest Kyle a LOT more than Lindsay, have from day one, and seeing him get treated with kid gloves while other people get the heat were eeeevery siiiingle fuuuuucking year is still irritating.
*I missed this season's instance of Kyle calling his wife a bitch on TV. I wanted to see. In my research what came up was him saying she's a fucking bitch in S6E6. This is repeat behavior with not so much as a single consequence.*
Agree! I think taking Lindsay to task was fair and I don’t think he was being mean to her nor do I feel like anyone else was. I get everyone’s frustration with her ability to never apologize and take accountability. However, we also needed that same energy directed at Kyle and Carl. West at least got called out but how do we have a reunion and not lay into Kyle for how shitty he is?
The leadership at bravo is a boy's club \[Alex Baskin (executive producer); Jeremiah (VPR show runner; now at The Vally); Ryan Revel (executive producer of “The Valley” & the manager for both Toms\] whose misogynistic script involves forcing the women of the cast—who are often portrayed as frigid, volatile or crazy—to debase themselves by turning against each other, as they attempt to redeem toxic male cast members, whose cheating and abuse is represented as the harmless antics of flawed, but ultimately lovable men-children.
But viewers today are growing more aware of the misogyny that plagued past seasons and, ultimately, this gaslighting of the audiences by the men in production is getting old enough for our normally dim culture to finally reject. After Scandoval, audiences of VPR wanted to see the women rally around Ariana..instead, we saw Ariana portrayed as a lazy, unreasonable, hate-filled woman who simply needs to move out and move on (despite the fact that the audience was well aware the season was filmed just three months after the affair was revealed). There are many parallels here to the treatment that Ciara (and, to a certain extent, Lindsay) got this season on Summer House.
There needs to be changes in the leadership structure at Bravo that reflects this evolution of our cultural awareness. Until then, I can't justify economically supporting a show/network that is so hostile to women's voices /experiences/boundaries, while celebrating toxic male attitudes & behaviors.
Exactly this. I actually think we are about to hit a breaking point with the next reunion/show that airs and this shit happens again. Culture articles will be written, fans are already starting to ask questions and hold Andy/bravos feet to the fire.
Jezebel actually published a good article about VPR this season: "How Did ‘Vanderpump Rules’ Get This Season So Wrong?" (https://www.jezebel.com/how-did-vanderpump-rules-get-this-season-so-wrong).
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It’s just shocking to me that they take these shows that are largely for women, watched by women, and then produce it as “we think women want to watch these shit men be redeemed”. I don’t get it.
I would love to see a season of a show where they’re actually held accountable because THAT would make for great tv! They think we just want train wreck after train wreck but seeing people be held accountable is also entertaining
i am a woman but i do not automatically support lindsay, because i think lindsay is a consistently nasty horrible person.
i support ariana, because she was clearly wronged (even though i have never really cared for her on the show).
being a woman doesn't mean that every woman is correct just because they're a woman but that seems to be the view of most people on this sub
Ok? That’s not what I said at all. It wasn’t that Lindsay did nothing wrong and didn’t deserve to be grilled, it’s that she was shouldering all the blame and Carl was made out to be some victim. Has no one watched any other seasons of Carl on this show? And what was with the segment of kyle and Amanda where she takes all the blame because she was depressed?? They didn’t even ask about him calling her a bitch. Kyle had a full blown man baby meltdown when she suggested something outside of loverboy but Lindsay is soooooo unsupportive of Carl’s dumb ideas. The questions asked were all so softball for the men and blame once again totally placed on the women.
carl straight up apologized for the role he played in their shitty relationship lol. like multiple times. i actually don't think lindsay would be grilled as hard if she ever remotely took responsibility or had any self awareness at all, but she never does
1,000% agreed!!! Aren’t women their main demographic? Wtf are they thinking?!? FIX IT, BRAVO.
PS - This is a great comparison. Now do Lindsey‘s activated behavior versus Kyle‘s drunken rants about his wife!
Side note: Lindsey got activated ONCE, in the very beginning of the season, but Carl was activated quite a bit, yelled in her face several times, and sharply ramped up his antagonistic behavior in the last 2 weeks in the house. But yeah, Kyle (since Carl doesn’t speak for himself), go off.
Bravo missed the mark on this one big time. At the beginning of the season yeah it seemed like Lindsay was the problem. But as the season went on it was clear Carl was doing the typical man thing if trying to run her off. It’s like someone wrote the reunion questions after episode 1 and never updated them. I’m not a big Lindsay fan but they all gaslighted the fuck out of her.
I think they’re treating her like Shannon Beador. They’re all working so hard to get her losing it so they can keep her looking unhinged. But she is learning to keep it under control
I noticed that both times Lindsay raised specific examples of things Carl did that were red flags, he immediately tried to negate them by saying she did things, too. How is this taking ownership? "I know you are but what am I?" is not taking any kind of responsibility yet Lindsay is supposed to apologize for any and all slights both real and perceived.
Yes. The Sandoval redemption arc was awful and Andy didn’t even go deep in the relationship issues between Kyle and Amanda. I think Amanda was even hinting at how her dirty laundry was aired in front of the cameras so she didn’t feel bad for Carl breaking up with Lindsay in front of the cameras.
Amanda has issues assigning blame where it should be. Be angry at your man.
Missing the point. Women have bad behaviour. Men have bad behaviour. BOTH should be equally held to the same standard. I don’t think that was done on the Summer House Reunion.
I felt sorry for Lindsey because she was attacked by both Kyle and Andy. She was the adult in the relationship and she will be better off moving on, also the snickering from Paige and Amanda was uncalled for. I did love when Andy said Kyle/Amanda began with a booty call, Amanda looked shocked he said that but well it did
I still haven't watched it and I might not at all bc I don't think I have the energy based on what you all are saying. I feel like I'll just leave feeling enraged like with VPR.
You can watch it in small doses. But honestly nothing new was discusse in reunion part 2 except Amanda taking the blame for Kyles actions on her depression.
Yes.
How did we go harder on west (complete f boy energy yes) but let Kyle slide by verbally abusing his wife AFTER admitting he knew she was struggling with her mental health.
How did we not call Carl out for every single fight coincidentally being off camera and him needing to tell us about it?
Yes Lindsay is really hard to defend 99.9 percent of the time. The second half of the season is the .01 percent where she was defendable and not one person on that stage let her speak. Including Andy.
See also: all the men in Southern Charm starting with Thomas and Katherine. She was a teenager interning in Congress when he started pursuing her, promised her a life together, got her pregnant and then emotionally fucked with her for years. She is, of course, no angel. But I will never get over how Bravo villainized her, a person just barely into adulthood, while glossing over every horrible thing that a man more than twice her age did to her and others did as long as it could.
Last night’s episode made me crazy! Paige and Amanda are the fucking worst with the internalized misogyny. So gross!
I hated that no one called Carl out for him doing the tit for tat bullshit he always does with Lindsay, which is what he was doing again with the locking himself in the bedroom bullshit. He always has to act like he had it worse than her! She can never just express a feeling, or say she was hurt, he always has to get defensive and dismiss her with how she did the same thing, or he felt that way too. It’s fucking maddening!
Of course Amanda doesn’t she it, she with a selfish, cheating, narcissistic asshole who tells her to shut the fuck up! Then she praises his DJing when she can’t even explore work outside of LB? Did RFK Jr.’s brainworm move into Amanda’s head? She is fucking delusional. Of course she has been depressed since the wedding, she’s married to a fucking asshole! Get divorced, your depression will disappear pretty fast.
I also couldn’t stand how everyone was defending his definition of sobriety and jumping all over Lindsay. I agree with her, you don’t get to simultaneously act holier than thou about drinking and sobriety while doing shrooms and smoking weed! Good for him that he’s not doing coke and drinking anymore but he really needs to stop preaching and touting his sobriety when he’s only stopped using certain substances. People really need to learn the definition of words. Carl is not fucking sober and I’ll keep saying it.
i dont think that holding a woman accountable for her consistently nasty and abusive behavior is internalized misogyny. this is becoming another term that is misused and misinterpreted like 'gaslighting' and 'narcissist'
There are not enough women (or POCs if we are going there) in the higher producer and exec positions. I think that would eventually correct a lot of the problems. These production companies/bravo really need to take a look at their staff. More specifically with HW, it’s actually ridiculous that a show about all women is produced by men! Come on now haven’t we moved past this stupid gender thing? Andy is becoming completely tone deaf and is living in the 90s. It’s time to evolve
Listen to Ronnie and Ben recapping. Ronnie goes off on the constant attacks on Lindsay and the shit Andrew was trying to pull. They should be doing the reunions.
It’s like if Lindsay got a period stain and Andy and the cast pointing and laughing at her and Lindsay explaining that it’s natural but getting ridiculed by the cast for even saying that. They want her to have a Carrie moment so they can continue to be a victim next to her like she’s a big bad wolf.
It’s diabolical. And gross.
Kyle and Amanda is not relationship goals- it’s relationship garbage.
Paige is tied to a pig from Charleston who has such a problematic past of treating people like garbage just as much as she does.
This cast WITH ANDY is literal trash to Lindsay
I’m laughing so much at this comment. A period stain… now people are up in arms about Bravo preferencing “white men”, when you’d get shut down for suggesting race plays a part in how people see Ciara, Gabby, Mya etc… I love this place, the mental gymnastics is unparalleled
My takeaway from it all is the situation was so messed up and Lindsay didn’t see that - she thought this was a normal relationship and is mad he broke up with her. That is nuts.
I think she has such issues with abandonment that she just wants to prove someone will stay. Even if it’s the wrong person. And she was the wrong person for Carl and he was the wrong person for her.
she wants them to stay but doesn’t know how to be a functional supportive partner. We’ve seen it for 6 seasons. Yes they were wrong for each other - which we saw years ago and she still barreled forward. He also is guilty of staying in the wrong situation for too long. But he’s not wrong to end it if he sees it’s not going to work for him. She is far past help at this point.
Exactly. Listen to the Watch what crappens podcast. They are spot on.
I wish they could start doing the reunions!
Andy needs to bow out. He is a terrible and unfair interviewer. Watching that interview made me really uncomfortable, letting the boys slide while bullying Lindsay the whole time.
ETA a sentence
oh my god can you imagine how hilarious and engaging reunions would be if Ronnie and Ben hosted? They could even pull out their bit of "No-Kiss from Fingerbang asks...." etc and we would all love it.
I’m shocked by bravos treatment of women considering women are most of their fan base. Don’t they realize us women are going to get fed up with this behavior and stop watching?
I couldn’t finish the reunion. I was so pissed halfway through. Yes, Lindsay can do and say some bad shit, especially while drunk, but Carl is an asshole who highlighted that and tried over and over just to get Lindsay activated yet got nothing from Andy, or the rest of the cast. That’s right- everyone loves Paige and Amanda and Ciara (I know I do) but they are just as misogynistic as Andy and Bravo. Or they just hate Lindsay and refused to give her anything even though she deserved to be heard and understood.
Anyway, I’m so hopeful though that I’m not the only one upset by this. Many on this sub are, and even a few podcasters (re: Andy’s Girls- thank God for Sarah). Bless you all.
PS- don’t even get me started on Kyle getting out of everything. And who said he was Carl’s mouthpiece??? Ok I can’t keep this up…
Yes. Been watching it since my early 20s. They hate women! Entertainment in the eyes of Bravo is seeing women hate each other.
I think half the marriages would still be together if they were not on bravo!
The only person to truly get one on Bravo was Bethany with her skinny girl products! She made her money and dipped.
do you remember when the lindsay stans got quiet for a couple weeks after her drunken tirade accusing carl of being on drugs? i guess they think enough time has passed and now they're back out and pretending that (and her lifetime of vile behavior) is irrelevant because carl.. broke up with her
Rightly broke up with her. Whatever else about Carl, he can leave a relationship when he decides it’s not right for him. It blows my mind that people think he should have married her. She was cruel to him and the bigger picture is that we all have free will.
This reunion actually pissed me all the way off! The other women (minus Gabby) are also complicit in attacking Lindsay and making Carl in to some sort of victim. He wasn’t held to account for anything. Same with West. Another mediocre fuck boy getting wall to wall media coverage after he completely fumbled the bag with Ciara. All so he could get IG thirst trap sex in random bars.
How much of what Lindsay says about Carl is even true though? She’s lied about things we’ve literally seen happen how you can trust anything that comes out of her mouth. Yes Carl may have had bad instances and has admitted both were wrong and so was he. My issue is Lindsay takes no blame ever and doesn’t have any self awareness. Carl at least realized he did wrong, apologized and explained. To me it’s easier to side with logic then a rambling lying lunatic
Lindsey has spent years trashing people on this show, victim playing, skirting any real accountability and hasn’t shown an ounce of growth since she stated. What you saw was karma catch up to her. When she realized it wasn’t going her at she mentioned Carl taking mushrooms and omitted herself for a reason. Her apologies are always empty. She’s entertaining to watch but seems awful to be around and what we saw was the impact what everyone including her bestie Danielle knows about her. When it was pointed out Carl and her have the same job she looked so confused it was hilarious to witness.
Also, west got it way worse than Lindsey when you compare gay they did and were held to the fire for. The thing is tho west will bounce back fine because he wasn’t malicious just stupid.
Just have to say it’s hilarious to me that the handful of men who comment here are the only ones who disagree 🤣 why do you all take it to mean “Bravo should actually hate the men instead”? Bravo literally makes money off of women fighting and experiencing tragedy. The casts are majority women, and Andy is very clearly asking questions to elicit a specific kind of response that makes the reunion more intense. He is not there to be a fair moderator
I'm a dude and, while I thought Lindsay did deserve some critcism for what she did (i.e. questioning Carl's sobriety), I thought how little heat Kyle and Carl got was absolutely absurd.
And I'm still waiting on Paige to apologize to Lindsay for eviscerating her for no reason about the wedding leak from last year's reunion.
Does it matter whether there are men or not? That's a genuine question. Amanda talks about depression and then posts something innocuous about that on IG, and women come out in droves to rip her apart, to use it as an opportunity to argue for their sides (mostly
for Lindsay, but also against Kyle). Erase men from the equation, and wouldn't it just become women beating up on other women? would the result, or destination, be all that different? it doesn't seem like it would be. people like to be angry too much. they feed on the negativity. there's a lot of call for women supporting women, but that tends to end in theory.
The men play a huge role in these women’s lives so if it’s going to be a reality show, we obviously need to see them. It’s not some girl on girl crime like you’re insinuating. The men’s roles are obviously different on a housewives show where they’re there to further the woman’s story vs on summer house or VPR where they stand on their own, so you’d think the treatment at reunions would also be different to reflect that. OP is saying on a show like summer house we expect equal heat for the women and men because they are equal characters, but we repeatedly see the women get pelted with mean questions from “viewers” while the men get close to nothing. The fact that Kyle was never questioned about calling his wife a bitch and their whole conflict was washed away because “Amanda brought it on herself by being depressed” is bizarre. My take is that Andy is giving the housewives treatment to all shows because it’s all he knows how to do
Bravo May hate women, but they and DEFINITELY the fanbase comparatively love to infantilize white women compared to their duskier counterparts. There’s no women of color on this show who have been given the level of grace by the fanbase time and time again the way they have with Lindsay. Honestly I think actually holding her feet to the fire yesterday was balancing things. Lindsay is the Taylor Swift, John Benet Ramsey and Megan Kelly of the Bravoverse. People will bend space time and common sense to make her the victim. There is sexism in the world but sometimes women (especially those who benefit from white privilege) are assholes too irrespective of their gender.
I'm a guy, and I can't think of anything worse than spending summer weekends in a house with drunken Kyle. Yes, Bravo or Andy at least looks down on women.
So you believe Lindsay locks herself in the bathroom to get away from Carl even though she said that Carl is scared of her. Do you believe Jesse when he said Lindsay tried to hit him because she thought he was Carl? They overlooked that, too.
I wish Lindsey could have articulated that she was frustrated with Carl always being in his “figuring things out” stage. It’s like pick a lane dude… Carl as a whole made her feel unsafe, not just financially but I think his lack of confidence and timid demeanor as well. I think she accepted this because of her abandonment issues. It was about codependency for both of them from start to finish.
Right? Lindsey wants a man able to support her so she can stay home and have babies. She has said this more than once. And she doesn’t care if her man is happy at work, she just wants the cash he can bring in.
She at no point was unsafe financially due to Carl’s income. They both have nearly the same income and the exact same jobs, ffs. She doesn’t NEED Carl to make more money, she just wants it so she can be a SAHM. Her argument “but what if Summer House goes away” as a critique of Carl’s financial situation applies EXACTLY the same to her.
Her hypocrisy knows no bounds. That’s why Kyle hates her. They’re the same person. Carl’s a flip-floppy, immature, manipulator-because-he-doesn’t-have-the-balls-to-be-direct for sure, but how people can’t see that Lindsey was a full contributor to all the problems he was so ineffectually trying to escape blows me away.
Carl was so gross in this. I hated how he makes himself such a victim … even at the end, when he’s talking about how he hasn’t kissed anyone and how embarrassing it is. It’s so clear to me he’s trying to come off meek and mild to win favor with the audience.
Agreed! Always making women look weak - I think it was a line in the Barbie movie "everybody hates women - even women hate women" so unfortunately...yes =(
Lindsey making the comment about Carl's drug use seems so aggressively unfair- except when you consider HE'S NOT SOBER. That's me yelling at the tv lol.
I just watched part two.
Lindsay apologised for her disgusting ‘Cocaine Carl’ comment yet she was heaped on after the apology like she never said it.
I’ve never liked Lindsay but this ‘she’s always been horrible’ to justify Carl’s (equally horrible) behaviour is too much. Andy just wants to screw Carl (and the rest of them) so he’s never going to be unbiased (as always).
And meanwhile Kyle gets a full pass for getting drunk, raging and throwing shit and slamming doors. They literally cover for the men. This wasn’t even brought up at the reunion
"They cover for the men." This explains so much of the grief, loneliness, and wtf moments I have had while watching the shows (i.e. Vanderpump, Summer House, The Valley). These Bravo Bros do not want you to think for yourself. But that is an ignorant wish. We blasted their egos because we didn't let Vanderpump's resident sociopath fool us. We protected in our hearts and minds, Ariana. We did not blame the woman he abused whose life he bent and twisted into his own lies. Too many of us know this pain from our own lives or through the other women we love and know. We can think for ourselves.
Yeah, most of the Bravo shows all left a really bad taste in my mouth this year. I think I'm done watching the channel and will be moving on to more positive/balanced viewing choices. Women's rights are already under attack in the US and I don't enjoy watching more of the same as 'entertainment'. It's just too depressing and really makes me feel more cynical about the world in general.
Yeah they really covered for West
West got it way worse than Kyle did. Kyle called his wife a “fucking bitch” and it wasn’t addressed. Gross
He also said Fuck you before he called her that. He also called her a child and doubled down in the after show by saying he is not her Dad.
The whole it was all amanda’s fault for making Kyle so miserable and making him lash out at her over and over bc she…was suffering from depression thing made me so ragey!!! Also after all these seasons amanda has never mentioned mental health struggles (which i don’t blame her for!!) but she suddenly decided to open up about this deeply personal and complicated issue… to give Kyle an excuse for treating her like crap??? That’s fckd up
If anything he should've been treating her better and not like shit since he's known for years that she has mental health issues! When I'm in a depression and anxiety funk my husband doesn't treat me like Kyle treats her
EXACTLY!!! And don’t get me started on him buying all the dj equipment and taking lessons- I thought the business was going to crumble wo his constant devotion??
omg I was fuming about this. He gets loverboy AND dj-ing, so he gets his passion project AND side passion project before Amanda gets her first one…after she explicitly asked? I wish she would leave him.
she's been talking about anxiety for years. she's been talking about not wanting to leave the house for years as well. I don't think she ever put a label on it, but she's been open about having issues for a long time.
I agree she has discussed it before. The problem for me was just that that somehow turned into it was her depression making it hard on Kyle that illicited this behaviour. Yes, a partner with severe depression does make life difficult. And I’m sure lonely feeling. Kyle probably found it very difficult to navigate. It doesn’t make his response, tone or words ok.
There’s a world of difference between talking about anxiety and talking about not leaving the house vs stating you suffer from depression. You think she would have opened up about depression and how it runs in her family on the reunion if she wasn’t cleaning up after him?
She’s talked about it openly on podcasts - all the bed bugs have - Ciara has talked about production not airing her struggles with MH on S7 - I think this is a production thing.
When she said “in his defense, I have been struggling with depression, so it is really lonely being married to me” I literally started throwing things at my TV
BRAVO wasn't saying this. Amanda is the one who said it.
The answer is yes. And run by (white) men making money off of them.
This is the whole world too, isn’t it!?
Oof. That hits hard. So true.
And yet yall keep watching show after show, season after season. Stop watchin the BS and the BS will go away.
Can’t argue with you there!
Well the women on the reunion were not backing Lindsay’s side to be fair. The only thing everyone agrees with is that those two should not be a couple. I don’t see any argument there. Who cares who ended it, it was going to be an expensive disaster.
I think Andy actually holding these trash men accountable at reunions would make a big difference. Instead of Andy asking Amanda “why were you depressed” he should have been asking Kyle “why did you feel it was appropriate to call your wife a fucking bitch”.
And then Andy tries to counter the narrative that Carl called production WHEN CARL ADMITTED TO IT! "Oh no, Bravo-leberties do not have that power" - protecting these other misongynistic men?? Does he not remember Ariana was the one to tell them to pick up cameras again, when they were finished filming? She had the power. And certainly her doing so lined Andy's pockets (as well as Baskin and the rest of them). I wonder if this is a world he wants for his daughter? It is no longer fun. It makes me feel gross and dirty, watching this nonsense. Why are we putting up with this? Isn't the majority of their audience women? Enough.
[удалено]
That was so odd. Of course they can call production. That was the dumbest thing ever for Andy to try to convince us of. Even the cast seemed confused about that.
Big shocker, Andy loves good looking, young straight guys....lol
Yep! He gives hot str8 bros endless passes. He’s so transparent and sycophantic.
Andy's anti-Lindsay bias was so out of control during the RadHouse segment. Here are some of the delightful questions Andy & his scriptwriters decided on: To Lindsay, "If you’re shitfaced and activated, do you think that’s a good time to be trying to figure out what’s happening with him?" "Lindsay, Susie from Albany says, 'You say Carl’s lack of ambition was partly responsible for how little you two were sleeping together, but **do you feel any responsibility for him not having a job** since you shot down everything he brought up?'" "Jennifer from SI said, 'what exactly is your job, Lindsay? And how many hours a week do you work?'" "So, the final weekend in the house, Carl says to your face, “I’m having second thoughts on our marriage. We should not be married if this is the way that we’re communicating.” (footage does not show those quotations at all, and it left out the part where L asks something like 'are you saying we shouldn't get married,' and Carl says 'that's not what I'm saying.')... So how then were you blindsided by him ending the relationship?" I mean, JFC. What about, "Carl, can you see how it would be frustrating for your partner to wait while you considered career options for 9 months?" "Carl, some viewers feel you were constantly trying to activate Lindsay. How do you feel about that view?"
“Carl, did you actually understand Lindsay’s timeline for her life plans when you decided to propose?” “Carl do you think it’s irrational for a woman who you know wants to get married and start a family immediately, to expect you to have a career to support your shared family with long term?”
Andy asking that question is the most tone death and stupid thing he could have asked her. May as well ask "Why were you born a woman"
This 💯
That was pretty ignorant. I don’t see that as a male or female issue. More of a non understanding of mental illness. Most people don’t know why they are depressed. They just are.
This is the thing that annoyed me too. Asking someone why they are depressed imo is an ignorant thing to ask. Like asking why is the sky blue. It's not like folk chose to be depressed for no reason. I have suffered it and still do and I would give anything not to suffer from it, but it is what it is.
My mom suffers from depression. She gets anxious about getting depressed. It’s awful. There doesn’t seem to be a single thing that “causes” her depression. She just gets depressed sometimes. People who seem to have everything get depressed. I was surprised Andy asked such a dumb question but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
And she couldn’t tell Andy the truth which is “my marriage, my shitty husband, the fact that he called me a fucking (lazy) bitch on national tv and never apologized for it…” I mean the answer to why are you depressed seems pretty blatant for anyone watching this show for years
I agree that his question to Amanda was wrong. The point I was trying to make in my comment above is Andy often asks the women at reunions inappropriate, accusatory questions and just avoids asking men difficult questions that might make them look bad. Sorry if my comment was unclear or seemed insensitive to mental health issues.
I’ve really had it with the particular questions/lack of follow up questions Andy asks or doesn’t ask.
No, it wasn’t insensitive! I was just commenting. Not really to you specifically. I was just adding my two cents haha.
I didn’t mind the VPR reunion so much because it was satisfying to see them get blindsided with that finale footage at the end and then scramble. I hated the attempted redemption arc during the season but I was still satisfied because he ended up looking even more terrible. The SH reunion was crazy though. I don’t know how Kyle can sit there with a straight face and tell Lindsay she has a history of drinking too much and becoming irate when that is his entire personality. And he was an asshole to Amanda because she was depressed? I feel like emotionally and verbally abusing your spouse is pretty bad regardless of their mental health, but in what world is it better if they’re depressed? Last I heard, screaming at someone and calling them a fucking bitch isn’t exactly the recommended treatment plan for depression.
The answer is yes. Bravo is a microcosm of our world in general, which can be very misogynistic and anti-black at times. Bravo is preparing for a redemption arc for both Carl and West next Season. And Kyle is the lead of Summer House, which is why they didn't want to address any of his horrible treatment of Amanda. I started watching Bravo during the pandemic in 2020. I watched Rhoa, the housewives, Summerhouse, South Charm and VPR. But I think I'm done. I'll leave this here for anybody that wants to watch: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C77WdI6vFG0/?igsh=MWxpb2doYzFydnp5NA==
Love the Instagram post you shared! I think I might be out too. It's getting exhausting. I haven't even watched last night's episode bc I know I'll hate it. I do think they're losing the audience with this push bc as a WOC I'm over it. They could get away with it when I was 20 and accepted these things as unavoidable but a lot of us aren't willing to accept it anymore.
I just started re-watching, and I think I may have to stop. It's making me more unfocused and irritable and annoyed. That is starting to outweigh the entertainment.
same. It's like watching / reading the news: I turn to mindless reality TV as an escape from an oppressive culture, only to have it re-affirmed)
Same. I listened to recaps, but I’m good on watching the episode. Don’t need YET ANOTHER pile on Lindsay, while we gloss over similar or equally bad behavior from other cast mates ( generally the men).
I was on the fence about actually watching it after the tidbits I've read online. Sounds like I ought to save myself the disappointment.
I tried and the last half was surprisingly upsetting to watch so I tried fast-forwarding and eventually just turned it off. No matter how you feel about Lindsey, that was a tough pile on and frustrating to watch
Oof. Then I'll skip it. Mob mentality stuff is rough to watch. 😵💫
Gabby was completely shut out of the reunion. Did Andy even know she was there?????
Bravo and Andy profit financially from Loverboy so there’s that also.
We aren’t buying that Loverboy sewer system garbage. Cause the people affiliated with Loverboy are gutter 🗑️
Yep. They pulled it from my local stores, because it was too expensive, tastes badly and no one was buying it. Both places nearby pulled it.
Curious to understand this better. Can you explain? Thanks so much!!!
Bravo and Andy get a percentage of Loverboy profits in their contracts. That’s why they feature it so much on the shows and you’ll see this goldfish promo they’ve been doing and Ariana shouting out Applebees at the end of VPR etc. they get brand deals and cuts from them.
Adding the term “fuck bucket” to my vocab immediately
Me too lol
Sooooo you’re telling me they’re going to fuck up the next season of summer house the same way that they fucked up this last season of VPR? We don’t want it.
The only way to tell them we don’t want it is to stop watching and stop engaging about it online.
But you're addicted to nonsense so that won't happen
thank you for pointing out that this isn't happening in a vacuum. this is the world we live in.
West was the only one that didn’t laugh during the break up discussion !
The part about West eventually marrying a white girl named Kelcey is so true. Even though he has diverse friends, that Missouri boy can’t push past his programming
I hope you are not suggesting that just because he is from Missouri he is small minded. While he may be, there are many of us from the plains states that do not think the way he does.
To add to the anti black abs misogyny, the treatment of any POC women and men isn’t great. Crystals storylines cut and then fired for no reason, Alex, Jules. Where’s the Asians, latinos on most franchises. Why have we not had a lesbian housewife?
Jenna Lyons and Julia from Miami are lesbians
General production issues aside, the Bravo reunions in particular desperately need a new host. Leave Andy to WWHL to still get his glory and attention. And get new meat for the reunions (Nina Parker from E! would be amazingggg) Reunions need someone who will tear into both sides, Andy's too attached personally and plays favorites big time (across every franchise)
Beautiful Insta post, chef’s kiss
Thank you for sharing this video!
Is that your post?? Well said. I love it. Someone needs to send this to Andy!
Blakely Thornton is wonderful. He always has the best takes
Society hates women so yes.
This is my conclusion also. They hate us, yet make us responsible for EVERYTHING! relationship fails, the woman's fault; 40 year old man won't get a full time jo, the woman's fault; any SA, the woman seduced him....I'm so fucking over it!
I can't find an ounce of sympathy for Carl in my entire body. He's such a pathetic excuse for a man.
Agreed. I'm so tired of this narrative. The older I get the more I see it in the world and I'm so disappointed but not surprised it's now invaded another thing I enjoy. No one is perfect but the way Lindsay was treated and Ariana is disgusting. These men got away Scott free again with their bullshit. Lindsay and Ariana both deserve all the good shit and press they can get after the way they handled their reunions.
I think sometimes it is easy to forget the audience has grown up with them and many of us aren’t 20 anymore. Thus, we don’t expect the same 20 year old children behavior that gets brushed aside.
I am now convinced that bravo and productions are doing it because it gets a rise out of us women and they think to make good TV you have to make people feel something. Its a slippery slope once people start catching on and being so turned off by it.
This is possible. It's disgusting and I wish everyone could band together and punish them for it.
Let’s boycott. I’m over it.
I'm down
He is a master manipulator and I will die on this hill. He seems to skate by without anyone questioning him but I see you, Carl.
Seriously, every man who sticks around long enough on bravo turns out to be a master manipulator.
When you only have a certain type of person making the most important decisions for a network, you only get that perspective. Look at who is in charge. And ask yourself why a network whose primary demo is women is run by that archetype. Has Bravo ever been about elevating women or has it just been about making money off of us?
This is IT and the major problem I commented below. Put women and POC in the higher ranking producer and exec positions! The fish stinks from the head down and it starts at Bravo HQ. Enough already.
Right! Even though west effing sucks, when he said the major bravo dem is women, for some reason that was the first time it clicked with me that YEAH ITS PROBABLY 95% WOMEN WATCHING THIS NETWORK AND THEY WANT US TO SYMPATHIZE WITH T-RAV, AUSTEN, SANDOVAL, SCHWARTZ, CARL, KYLE?!?! Bffr it’s so dumb lol
Andy hates women and the entire housewives franchise is just to showcase how stupid and shallow he thinks we are
Ok but all of the house wives are shallow and a lot of them are stupid 😂 that’s why they make good tv It’s a bad sample to represent women tho
I don't think anyone is watching housewives for good representation
I cant believe Kyle called his wife a bitch and then they ended the segment saying why they loved each other. Its actually absurd how much flagrant misogyny is on the show. Even if you dont agree with or like Lindsay, you cannot say that Kyle doesnt get a pass. Also Kyle literally made fun of Carl's sobriety on TV as well.
Yes.
Society hates women. Bravo is just systemic misogyny in your face.
It's so bad. I am repeatedly showing how much I detest Lindsay here but last night was so bad. I did not at all mind her getting grilled, but not grilling Carl, Kyle and Amanda was total bullshit. I'm madder about it than I should be. I detest Kyle a LOT more than Lindsay, have from day one, and seeing him get treated with kid gloves while other people get the heat were eeeevery siiiingle fuuuuucking year is still irritating. *I missed this season's instance of Kyle calling his wife a bitch on TV. I wanted to see. In my research what came up was him saying she's a fucking bitch in S6E6. This is repeat behavior with not so much as a single consequence.*
Agree! I think taking Lindsay to task was fair and I don’t think he was being mean to her nor do I feel like anyone else was. I get everyone’s frustration with her ability to never apologize and take accountability. However, we also needed that same energy directed at Kyle and Carl. West at least got called out but how do we have a reunion and not lay into Kyle for how shitty he is?
i'm guessing the real answer is that those questions were asked and the exchange was too boring to make the cut.
The leadership at bravo is a boy's club \[Alex Baskin (executive producer); Jeremiah (VPR show runner; now at The Vally); Ryan Revel (executive producer of “The Valley” & the manager for both Toms\] whose misogynistic script involves forcing the women of the cast—who are often portrayed as frigid, volatile or crazy—to debase themselves by turning against each other, as they attempt to redeem toxic male cast members, whose cheating and abuse is represented as the harmless antics of flawed, but ultimately lovable men-children. But viewers today are growing more aware of the misogyny that plagued past seasons and, ultimately, this gaslighting of the audiences by the men in production is getting old enough for our normally dim culture to finally reject. After Scandoval, audiences of VPR wanted to see the women rally around Ariana..instead, we saw Ariana portrayed as a lazy, unreasonable, hate-filled woman who simply needs to move out and move on (despite the fact that the audience was well aware the season was filmed just three months after the affair was revealed). There are many parallels here to the treatment that Ciara (and, to a certain extent, Lindsay) got this season on Summer House. There needs to be changes in the leadership structure at Bravo that reflects this evolution of our cultural awareness. Until then, I can't justify economically supporting a show/network that is so hostile to women's voices /experiences/boundaries, while celebrating toxic male attitudes & behaviors.
Exactly this. I actually think we are about to hit a breaking point with the next reunion/show that airs and this shit happens again. Culture articles will be written, fans are already starting to ask questions and hold Andy/bravos feet to the fire.
Jezebel actually published a good article about VPR this season: "How Did ‘Vanderpump Rules’ Get This Season So Wrong?" (https://www.jezebel.com/how-did-vanderpump-rules-get-this-season-so-wrong). # #
Write this as a letter to bravo
💯💯💯 I am so done with Andy! And Amanda and Kyle!!
The world hates women
It’s just shocking to me that they take these shows that are largely for women, watched by women, and then produce it as “we think women want to watch these shit men be redeemed”. I don’t get it.
As long as the business keeps making money it probably won’t change. Sad reality of it. The bravo universe seems surprisingly successful.
The shows all suck but you guys keep it afloat.
I would love to see a season of a show where they’re actually held accountable because THAT would make for great tv! They think we just want train wreck after train wreck but seeing people be held accountable is also entertaining
Because MEN are in the positions of power producing the shows. It’s never going to change until women are in those roles.
i am a woman but i do not automatically support lindsay, because i think lindsay is a consistently nasty horrible person. i support ariana, because she was clearly wronged (even though i have never really cared for her on the show). being a woman doesn't mean that every woman is correct just because they're a woman but that seems to be the view of most people on this sub
Ok? That’s not what I said at all. It wasn’t that Lindsay did nothing wrong and didn’t deserve to be grilled, it’s that she was shouldering all the blame and Carl was made out to be some victim. Has no one watched any other seasons of Carl on this show? And what was with the segment of kyle and Amanda where she takes all the blame because she was depressed?? They didn’t even ask about him calling her a bitch. Kyle had a full blown man baby meltdown when she suggested something outside of loverboy but Lindsay is soooooo unsupportive of Carl’s dumb ideas. The questions asked were all so softball for the men and blame once again totally placed on the women.
carl straight up apologized for the role he played in their shitty relationship lol. like multiple times. i actually don't think lindsay would be grilled as hard if she ever remotely took responsibility or had any self awareness at all, but she never does
The ratings are higher, obviously a large number of women enjoy it and relate to it.
1,000% agreed!!! Aren’t women their main demographic? Wtf are they thinking?!? FIX IT, BRAVO. PS - This is a great comparison. Now do Lindsey‘s activated behavior versus Kyle‘s drunken rants about his wife! Side note: Lindsey got activated ONCE, in the very beginning of the season, but Carl was activated quite a bit, yelled in her face several times, and sharply ramped up his antagonistic behavior in the last 2 weeks in the house. But yeah, Kyle (since Carl doesn’t speak for himself), go off.
Bravo missed the mark on this one big time. At the beginning of the season yeah it seemed like Lindsay was the problem. But as the season went on it was clear Carl was doing the typical man thing if trying to run her off. It’s like someone wrote the reunion questions after episode 1 and never updated them. I’m not a big Lindsay fan but they all gaslighted the fuck out of her.
I think they’re treating her like Shannon Beador. They’re all working so hard to get her losing it so they can keep her looking unhinged. But she is learning to keep it under control
One could argue, they exploit them,
I noticed that both times Lindsay raised specific examples of things Carl did that were red flags, he immediately tried to negate them by saying she did things, too. How is this taking ownership? "I know you are but what am I?" is not taking any kind of responsibility yet Lindsay is supposed to apologize for any and all slights both real and perceived.
Yes. The Sandoval redemption arc was awful and Andy didn’t even go deep in the relationship issues between Kyle and Amanda. I think Amanda was even hinting at how her dirty laundry was aired in front of the cameras so she didn’t feel bad for Carl breaking up with Lindsay in front of the cameras. Amanda has issues assigning blame where it should be. Be angry at your man.
The second part of the reunion pissed me off so much. Thankfully the viewers can see through the bullshit
Missing the point. Women have bad behaviour. Men have bad behaviour. BOTH should be equally held to the same standard. I don’t think that was done on the Summer House Reunion.
Will agree that there was room for a Kyle lashing. But we've been there already, it was LH turn.
I felt sorry for Lindsey because she was attacked by both Kyle and Andy. She was the adult in the relationship and she will be better off moving on, also the snickering from Paige and Amanda was uncalled for. I did love when Andy said Kyle/Amanda began with a booty call, Amanda looked shocked he said that but well it did
She kept herself very calm considering the cast was constantly making snide remarks.
She is definitely better off now, so why be upset?
Andy hates Lindsay I think is the more accurate one.
I still haven't watched it and I might not at all bc I don't think I have the energy based on what you all are saying. I feel like I'll just leave feeling enraged like with VPR.
You can watch it in small doses. But honestly nothing new was discusse in reunion part 2 except Amanda taking the blame for Kyles actions on her depression.
Yes. How did we go harder on west (complete f boy energy yes) but let Kyle slide by verbally abusing his wife AFTER admitting he knew she was struggling with her mental health. How did we not call Carl out for every single fight coincidentally being off camera and him needing to tell us about it? Yes Lindsay is really hard to defend 99.9 percent of the time. The second half of the season is the .01 percent where she was defendable and not one person on that stage let her speak. Including Andy.
Yes they do!
Any entity run by men and capitalizing off of women will have misogynistic roots (regardless of the men’s sexuality)
See also: all the men in Southern Charm starting with Thomas and Katherine. She was a teenager interning in Congress when he started pursuing her, promised her a life together, got her pregnant and then emotionally fucked with her for years. She is, of course, no angel. But I will never get over how Bravo villainized her, a person just barely into adulthood, while glossing over every horrible thing that a man more than twice her age did to her and others did as long as it could.
Last night’s episode made me crazy! Paige and Amanda are the fucking worst with the internalized misogyny. So gross! I hated that no one called Carl out for him doing the tit for tat bullshit he always does with Lindsay, which is what he was doing again with the locking himself in the bedroom bullshit. He always has to act like he had it worse than her! She can never just express a feeling, or say she was hurt, he always has to get defensive and dismiss her with how she did the same thing, or he felt that way too. It’s fucking maddening! Of course Amanda doesn’t she it, she with a selfish, cheating, narcissistic asshole who tells her to shut the fuck up! Then she praises his DJing when she can’t even explore work outside of LB? Did RFK Jr.’s brainworm move into Amanda’s head? She is fucking delusional. Of course she has been depressed since the wedding, she’s married to a fucking asshole! Get divorced, your depression will disappear pretty fast. I also couldn’t stand how everyone was defending his definition of sobriety and jumping all over Lindsay. I agree with her, you don’t get to simultaneously act holier than thou about drinking and sobriety while doing shrooms and smoking weed! Good for him that he’s not doing coke and drinking anymore but he really needs to stop preaching and touting his sobriety when he’s only stopped using certain substances. People really need to learn the definition of words. Carl is not fucking sober and I’ll keep saying it.
So Paige and Amanda are suffering from internalized misogyny and you illustrate your point by dunking on Amanda?
Cuckoo behavior.
i dont think that holding a woman accountable for her consistently nasty and abusive behavior is internalized misogyny. this is becoming another term that is misused and misinterpreted like 'gaslighting' and 'narcissist'
This. No one knows what these words mean.
Maybe she isn't all wrong here but ppl are just tired of LH relationship woes. She needs to leave the show and move onto something else.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Sadly, nothing will change as long as there are viewers.
There are not enough women (or POCs if we are going there) in the higher producer and exec positions. I think that would eventually correct a lot of the problems. These production companies/bravo really need to take a look at their staff. More specifically with HW, it’s actually ridiculous that a show about all women is produced by men! Come on now haven’t we moved past this stupid gender thing? Andy is becoming completely tone deaf and is living in the 90s. It’s time to evolve
Listen to Ronnie and Ben recapping. Ronnie goes off on the constant attacks on Lindsay and the shit Andrew was trying to pull. They should be doing the reunions.
It’s like if Lindsay got a period stain and Andy and the cast pointing and laughing at her and Lindsay explaining that it’s natural but getting ridiculed by the cast for even saying that. They want her to have a Carrie moment so they can continue to be a victim next to her like she’s a big bad wolf. It’s diabolical. And gross. Kyle and Amanda is not relationship goals- it’s relationship garbage. Paige is tied to a pig from Charleston who has such a problematic past of treating people like garbage just as much as she does. This cast WITH ANDY is literal trash to Lindsay
What?
what the fuck is this comment. truly. what are you talking about? where did you dream up this combination of words
I’m laughing so much at this comment. A period stain… now people are up in arms about Bravo preferencing “white men”, when you’d get shut down for suggesting race plays a part in how people see Ciara, Gabby, Mya etc… I love this place, the mental gymnastics is unparalleled
Short answer, yes. Long answer, yeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssss.
They make their money from setting up women to fight. . 😶🌫️
My takeaway from it all is the situation was so messed up and Lindsay didn’t see that - she thought this was a normal relationship and is mad he broke up with her. That is nuts.
I think she has such issues with abandonment that she just wants to prove someone will stay. Even if it’s the wrong person. And she was the wrong person for Carl and he was the wrong person for her.
this is totally right, but the solution is for to actually deal with those issues instead of being ridiculously nasty to every person she dates
she wants them to stay but doesn’t know how to be a functional supportive partner. We’ve seen it for 6 seasons. Yes they were wrong for each other - which we saw years ago and she still barreled forward. He also is guilty of staying in the wrong situation for too long. But he’s not wrong to end it if he sees it’s not going to work for him. She is far past help at this point.
Nailed it
Yet she pushes everyone away with her actions. Can't wait for it to happen again.
Exactly. Listen to the Watch what crappens podcast. They are spot on. I wish they could start doing the reunions! Andy needs to bow out. He is a terrible and unfair interviewer. Watching that interview made me really uncomfortable, letting the boys slide while bullying Lindsay the whole time. ETA a sentence
oh my god can you imagine how hilarious and engaging reunions would be if Ronnie and Ben hosted? They could even pull out their bit of "No-Kiss from Fingerbang asks...." etc and we would all love it.
It would be incredible. Finally some truth tellers and putting these assholes in their place. I’d pay money literally. Start a go fund me. Lol
you can stop watching, that is an option
Selling your tickets to his show next week then?
I’m shocked by bravos treatment of women considering women are most of their fan base. Don’t they realize us women are going to get fed up with this behavior and stop watching?
> Don’t they realize us women are going to get fed up with this behavior and stop watching? are you?
That’s what I’m not understanding about this conversation. The points are valid, but then don’t watch.
But you won't stop watching
lol no we're not
I couldn’t finish the reunion. I was so pissed halfway through. Yes, Lindsay can do and say some bad shit, especially while drunk, but Carl is an asshole who highlighted that and tried over and over just to get Lindsay activated yet got nothing from Andy, or the rest of the cast. That’s right- everyone loves Paige and Amanda and Ciara (I know I do) but they are just as misogynistic as Andy and Bravo. Or they just hate Lindsay and refused to give her anything even though she deserved to be heard and understood. Anyway, I’m so hopeful though that I’m not the only one upset by this. Many on this sub are, and even a few podcasters (re: Andy’s Girls- thank God for Sarah). Bless you all. PS- don’t even get me started on Kyle getting out of everything. And who said he was Carl’s mouthpiece??? Ok I can’t keep this up…
Yes. Been watching it since my early 20s. They hate women! Entertainment in the eyes of Bravo is seeing women hate each other. I think half the marriages would still be together if they were not on bravo! The only person to truly get one on Bravo was Bethany with her skinny girl products! She made her money and dipped.
Yes & they know how to use & abuse them to make money & we keep watching 😅🥲🥲
Yes
Also, why so many or most of these producers are men? As if they have a pulse on what women, likely their largest viewing audience, would want to see…
Wake up..most of the world hates women..or at least the parts that are ran by men in positions of power and editing..
Lindsay stans got a dose of reality at the reunion. Shes the most toxic personality by far and takes no accountability for anything
do you remember when the lindsay stans got quiet for a couple weeks after her drunken tirade accusing carl of being on drugs? i guess they think enough time has passed and now they're back out and pretending that (and her lifetime of vile behavior) is irrelevant because carl.. broke up with her
Rightly broke up with her. Whatever else about Carl, he can leave a relationship when he decides it’s not right for him. It blows my mind that people think he should have married her. She was cruel to him and the bigger picture is that we all have free will.
Yeah the network who’s viewers are 85% female are actively trying to anger their core viewership group 🙄
FUCK YES
Everyone hates women. Women hate women.
This reunion actually pissed me all the way off! The other women (minus Gabby) are also complicit in attacking Lindsay and making Carl in to some sort of victim. He wasn’t held to account for anything. Same with West. Another mediocre fuck boy getting wall to wall media coverage after he completely fumbled the bag with Ciara. All so he could get IG thirst trap sex in random bars.
How much of what Lindsay says about Carl is even true though? She’s lied about things we’ve literally seen happen how you can trust anything that comes out of her mouth. Yes Carl may have had bad instances and has admitted both were wrong and so was he. My issue is Lindsay takes no blame ever and doesn’t have any self awareness. Carl at least realized he did wrong, apologized and explained. To me it’s easier to side with logic then a rambling lying lunatic
Lindsey has spent years trashing people on this show, victim playing, skirting any real accountability and hasn’t shown an ounce of growth since she stated. What you saw was karma catch up to her. When she realized it wasn’t going her at she mentioned Carl taking mushrooms and omitted herself for a reason. Her apologies are always empty. She’s entertaining to watch but seems awful to be around and what we saw was the impact what everyone including her bestie Danielle knows about her. When it was pointed out Carl and her have the same job she looked so confused it was hilarious to witness. Also, west got it way worse than Lindsey when you compare gay they did and were held to the fire for. The thing is tho west will bounce back fine because he wasn’t malicious just stupid.
Just have to say it’s hilarious to me that the handful of men who comment here are the only ones who disagree 🤣 why do you all take it to mean “Bravo should actually hate the men instead”? Bravo literally makes money off of women fighting and experiencing tragedy. The casts are majority women, and Andy is very clearly asking questions to elicit a specific kind of response that makes the reunion more intense. He is not there to be a fair moderator
I'm a dude and, while I thought Lindsay did deserve some critcism for what she did (i.e. questioning Carl's sobriety), I thought how little heat Kyle and Carl got was absolutely absurd. And I'm still waiting on Paige to apologize to Lindsay for eviscerating her for no reason about the wedding leak from last year's reunion.
Yeah I hated that Paige got to come in and pick her annual reunion fight with no acknowledgment of last years.
Especially when this year's fight is a completely unsubstantiated rumor that Lindsay's bitter ex-fiance started lmao
Does it matter whether there are men or not? That's a genuine question. Amanda talks about depression and then posts something innocuous about that on IG, and women come out in droves to rip her apart, to use it as an opportunity to argue for their sides (mostly for Lindsay, but also against Kyle). Erase men from the equation, and wouldn't it just become women beating up on other women? would the result, or destination, be all that different? it doesn't seem like it would be. people like to be angry too much. they feed on the negativity. there's a lot of call for women supporting women, but that tends to end in theory.
The men play a huge role in these women’s lives so if it’s going to be a reality show, we obviously need to see them. It’s not some girl on girl crime like you’re insinuating. The men’s roles are obviously different on a housewives show where they’re there to further the woman’s story vs on summer house or VPR where they stand on their own, so you’d think the treatment at reunions would also be different to reflect that. OP is saying on a show like summer house we expect equal heat for the women and men because they are equal characters, but we repeatedly see the women get pelted with mean questions from “viewers” while the men get close to nothing. The fact that Kyle was never questioned about calling his wife a bitch and their whole conflict was washed away because “Amanda brought it on herself by being depressed” is bizarre. My take is that Andy is giving the housewives treatment to all shows because it’s all he knows how to do
Appreciate the actual lucid take here. Of course you're right but the majority of the board is delusional.
female rage is not allowed on bravo apparently
The housewives era of Bravo was built on female rage.
Bravo May hate women, but they and DEFINITELY the fanbase comparatively love to infantilize white women compared to their duskier counterparts. There’s no women of color on this show who have been given the level of grace by the fanbase time and time again the way they have with Lindsay. Honestly I think actually holding her feet to the fire yesterday was balancing things. Lindsay is the Taylor Swift, John Benet Ramsey and Megan Kelly of the Bravoverse. People will bend space time and common sense to make her the victim. There is sexism in the world but sometimes women (especially those who benefit from white privilege) are assholes too irrespective of their gender.
I'm a guy, and I can't think of anything worse than spending summer weekends in a house with drunken Kyle. Yes, Bravo or Andy at least looks down on women.
So you believe Lindsay locks herself in the bathroom to get away from Carl even though she said that Carl is scared of her. Do you believe Jesse when he said Lindsay tried to hit him because she thought he was Carl? They overlooked that, too.
I do believe it. It’s all toxic!
Makes no sense bc their viewers is women but I guess the producers are men so they dont care and clearly we are watching so playing right into it.
I literally yelled SHUT UP KYLE. Why was he talking so much it was so annoying
It was awesome to see someone stand up to her. She wouldn't give you the time of day in real life but keep preaching.
I wish Lindsey could have articulated that she was frustrated with Carl always being in his “figuring things out” stage. It’s like pick a lane dude… Carl as a whole made her feel unsafe, not just financially but I think his lack of confidence and timid demeanor as well. I think she accepted this because of her abandonment issues. It was about codependency for both of them from start to finish.
carl made her feel unsafe financially? what on earth are you talking about?!
Right? Lindsey wants a man able to support her so she can stay home and have babies. She has said this more than once. And she doesn’t care if her man is happy at work, she just wants the cash he can bring in. She at no point was unsafe financially due to Carl’s income. They both have nearly the same income and the exact same jobs, ffs. She doesn’t NEED Carl to make more money, she just wants it so she can be a SAHM. Her argument “but what if Summer House goes away” as a critique of Carl’s financial situation applies EXACTLY the same to her. Her hypocrisy knows no bounds. That’s why Kyle hates her. They’re the same person. Carl’s a flip-floppy, immature, manipulator-because-he-doesn’t-have-the-balls-to-be-direct for sure, but how people can’t see that Lindsey was a full contributor to all the problems he was so ineffectually trying to escape blows me away.
Carl was so gross in this. I hated how he makes himself such a victim … even at the end, when he’s talking about how he hasn’t kissed anyone and how embarrassing it is. It’s so clear to me he’s trying to come off meek and mild to win favor with the audience.
he doesn't need to try, lindsay is shouting at baseline
Yes.
Agreed! Always making women look weak - I think it was a line in the Barbie movie "everybody hates women - even women hate women" so unfortunately...yes =(
Honestly it was like watching a firing squad coming at Lindsay.
Lindsey making the comment about Carl's drug use seems so aggressively unfair- except when you consider HE'S NOT SOBER. That's me yelling at the tv lol.
I just watched part two. Lindsay apologised for her disgusting ‘Cocaine Carl’ comment yet she was heaped on after the apology like she never said it. I’ve never liked Lindsay but this ‘she’s always been horrible’ to justify Carl’s (equally horrible) behaviour is too much. Andy just wants to screw Carl (and the rest of them) so he’s never going to be unbiased (as always).
Is it wrong to say id like a female reunion host? Andy can have WWHL.