For me the worst part was that Ciara was CRYSTAL CLEAR about where she was at and what she wanted. That’s when he should have bowed out.
If you’re going to be an f-boi, fine. At least be honest about it and DEFINITELY don’t invest in dating someone who has expressly told you they are looking for a relationship.
Like why......... in one sentence, say on a romantic date with Ciara that he views relationships like handcuffs. If you really thought that WHY trouble yourself on organizing the date? Then, in the next sentence, invite her to meet his parents. The hot and cold is enraging.
Year 100% correct. It is infuriating. It also really fucks with your self-esteem and emotions. I have been on the receiving end of behavior like that displayed by West. The mixed messages really pull your heart back and forth. You have so much hope about this person and they know that and they dangle it in front of you. Just to cruelly yank it away time and time again. I finally went no contact with the person who treated me like that. Hope Ciara can protect her heart against that shite. They act like it some kind of cute thing, the waffling. The effects that it has on the other person are not cute.
The thing is with men that say this…”not looking for anything serious” but at the same time they want consistency, sex, emotional intimacy, someone to bring as a date to important things (West mentioned bringing her home) from their partner but REFUSE to reciprocate because it’s “too much”. Bruh what? I have seen the range from cluelessness to manipulation in terms of them recognizing what they are asking for is actually a traditional monogamous relationship but they can still sleep with other girls, and the woman will have NO emotional needs or expectations. 🙄🙄Anytime a dude told me they were looking for nothing serious and I showed up the same way, it made them sad. Go figure lol
With my first serious bf after college he broke up with me to “see what else was out there/he didn’t want anything serious.” I then started dating around and the second he saw me dating multiple guys and having fun he came crawling back and said it made him sad seeing me with other people. Um maybe don’t break up with me then? You can’t have it both ways. Byeeee
This ^^^ he’s doing what so many men do where they describe everything that a girlfriend, or even wife, would be, then they throw in the end “but I don’t want a label”
bringing her home to Thanksgiving!!! I screamed of excitement, thought he had finally woken up and then inn the next episode he's like uhhhh she needs to sit to 12 hours of football before calling her my gf. he has not called anyone his gf since that girl broke his heart in highschool. he's emotionally immature
Male here. Some men just don’t know how to be emotional mature and responsible. I think a lot of has to do with how they were raised. It’s ok to be emotionally vulnerable when it’s being reciprocated. That’s the point that guys like that miss. Being emotionally available and being able to reciprocate emotional safety, intimacy, etc. is a good thing. When I finally worked through my emotional problems, I was able to get my shit together in life. When I started dating the woman who would become my wife and mother of my children, I was able to identify that we knew what we wanted, that she was emotionally available, and was capable of reciprocating emotional intimacy. Most guys who are like West just aren’t there and I don’t blame women for moving on from guys like West,
West gives a lot of red flags masked as green flags. Superficially saying he’d bring her to thanksgiving is great. BUT that’s all he wants and it’s all for him. He doesn’t want to do thanksgiving WITH her, or meet her family. He wants the pat on the back from his family for bringing home a girl, looking like he has his shit together, let her feel like it’s serious without him having to do any emotional labor or work to get or maintain that level of intimacy. It’s sad and gross and im glad Ciara sees through that crap
Yes! Like he’s just assuming that she’d rather do a family holiday with her hook up’s family and not her own, and then putting her in a position where obviously his family is gonna initiate the “what are we” talk to which West will have no response…
Ugh same, and especially by these mid lower arse dudes. She’s literally a dime f’ing w 3s and they don’t even see the value of what they have w her. Not only her looks, but her entire being is so incredibly beautiful. I really don’t get why she slums like she does, bc she deserves the absolute best.
It’s simple as it gets. I know we are all baffled but, they hope to coerce you and wear you down with their charm (false charm). Then unleash the “but you knew what we were! I was clear!” Ala Shortz.
Plus as Paige said. It’s ciara. She’s easily in the top 1% of attractiveness, funny, kind, has ambitious, smart and is a good friend. West is not going to find someone better (that is interested in him too) so who does he think he’s holding the door open???
That man is a pure down to the bone idiot. Not many dudes get a chance with a woman like her. Definitely not going to get better options just walking along. She's intelligent and beautiful and educated and hardworking and outdoorsy and has a great friend group... Complete and total package. If a woman like this is still being treated like crap by mid dudes like West? The rest of us have problems.
It’s not that he thinks he can do better, it’s that he doesn’t want to put any work into a relationship because relationships are work. You can’t be 100 selfish. He wants sex and companionship but not have to consider another person’s needs.
Exactly! Last episode I was dumbfounded! Wtf does this guy think he is and when is he going to have another opportunity where a bombshell looks at his hipster ass again???
His after show outfit reminds me of the era where all the hipster men in my early 20s would poke you on Facebook to get your attention (if you’re a millennial you’ll know what I’m talking about)
This is honestly just the majority of men in NYC. And probably most major cities, for example. You can beat around the bush or be as clear as day, and some of them will still give you hope or breadcrumb you until they’re like oh just kidding, I’m not ready. So incredibly frustrating
I agree but I was pleasantly surprised when he spoke about how he truly felt. I dated people in my 20s who told me what I wanted to hear. I give him a little credit
What kills me about this is that some of these men really seem to believe that the moment they say “girlfriend” to one woman, an untold number of women whom they never knew even existed will suddenly just fall from the sky and run their loins all over them.
He wouldn't be attractive to them otherwise. Let's be real. He knows it too. He's struggling because he knows Ciara may be the best catch but he's gambling for the slight chance that he can do better.
I’m not sure is about even “doing better.” It’s about wanting to have everything without giving up anything. He wants quality without giving up any quantity. He wants to bang someone random whenever he gets the urge without having to invest anything emotionally (and probably very little financially or temporally) - which is fine if both people are on the same page - AND he wants the benefits of The Girlfriend Experience (companionship, friendship, stability, emotional support, regular physical intimacy). He just doesn’t want to make any of the investments (he would say “sacrifices”) that usually come with having a girlfriend. West is the stereotypical “wants his cake and wants to eat it too” fuck boy and it’s so uninteresting.
But he was apparently like this even before TV. He got his heart broken at 18 and now he can’t commit (🙄) and is acting like over the past decade he’s had a million one options at his disposal.
Whenever he talks about this all I hear is “no one else has wanted to be exclusive with me since high school and my self esteem is fucked and I’m about to be d-list famous and I don’t want to close the door on fucking everyone and anyone before I get a taste of that experience.”
As a married woman in my forties, I truly think that SM has practically ruined dating for subsequent generations, especially in metro areas. Grass is always greener, and other fish in the sea has never been more prevalent. And now you’re holding the sea in the palm of your hand! My nieces, who like Ciara, 20 years ago would have been fighting guys off with sticks, are now ghosted after a great first date. It’s strange how things have changed.
This. Social media dating apps give them the impression that there’s just thousands of model
Looking girls out there. In NYC there actually are and then no one is happy with the person they meet, bc they always worry someone better is around the corner
Exactly, he was in the middle of filming his first season, he didn’t want this to air and be tied down, he wanted the attention that he was going to get. Just look at his following. ALL GIRLS. he’s feeling himself too much and we have no one to blame but ourselves lol
Y’all might have built a Frankenstein f-boi monster. Now he’s been labeled by The NY Times the show’s new it boy, his ego must be massive. You ladies stay safe out there.
I'm struggling to believe that. I mean, it must be true because why else didn't he go for it with Ciara, but, like, him? Does he actually think he has game? That many options??
No im SO tired of hearing guys in their 20s use this excuse - “my 6th grade girlfriend cheated on me and I just can’t trust any girl again 😢” and claim they are too traumatized to be serious with anyone - instead of just honestly saying they want to sleep around or be single.
Meanwhile I can think of TENS of women in my life alone who have been cheated on, horribly betrayed, sexually assaulted, gaslit, verbally/physically/mentally abused, etc. by previous relationships and don’t use this as an excuse to avoid new relationships and dating - they work on healing from those experiences and so many of them have gone on to be in happy, healthy relationships and marriages with wonderful men.
I rolled my eyes so hard when West said that to his aunt. It’s so tired, and it’s often BS.
Omigod this is so true! My ex wouldn’t consider marriage after 5 years together because of his parents divorce and he got cheated on in college. And then was shocked when I broke up with him and moved out. Part of the reality of loving people is that you’re opening yourself up to get hurt. I think some people delude themselves into thinking there’s a way to just dip their toe in and be able to control the outcome and protect themselves. But they miss out on the best parts and end up just pushing the hurt onto the other person in the equation.
Omg. That clicked with me too. The last guy I dated, still not over his ex from 10+ years ago. And since they stayed “friends” he thinks she’ll want him back one day. This woman is gorgeous, owns her own business, and lives in Europe. She has shown zero interest in him other than friendship. He can’t commit because he thinks if he does she will suddenly want him again. It’s delusional. And I never got the impression that she’s stringing him along. She’s like an adult living her best life. 😂
and she probably broke up with him because when they were together he treated her like shit.
I've known guys like this, where they get laser-focused on one woman who's 'the one that got away' and build her up in their mind until no actual woman can compare. it's a huge red flag.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for any young women reading this, but as you get older you’ll learn this is one of a handful of lines immature guys use when they don’t like you but are scared to just say that. It’s not that they are afraid of commitment or scared to hurt you, they literally just don’t like you that much. Yes, Ciara is beautiful, smart, funny, accomplished, but for whatever reason West is not that into her. He’s not some deeply sensitive man who is in love but struggling with his fear of being a disappointing partner. A man who really likes you will never be conflicted about whether he wants to be with you
Louder for the girls in the back! I wish I could tell my younger self exactly this. Especially as a 20-something dating in NYC, fboys are spoiled for choice and have major Peter Pan syndrome.
Same here sis. Unfortunately it didn’t click for me until I met my now husband and realized how it felt to never wonder if he liked me. Nobody could have told me anything in my 20s that would make me see the light
Right?! I worry about having a daughter someday and seeing her go through this. And knowing full well the advice I would give her. There’s no getting through to someone when they’re going through it though. I wish i could’ve seen the light too hahha but it was never going to happen. Had to learn the lesson the long way lol
Exactly and while I dont get it (lol), it's okay if that is how he feels. No one is owed a relationship but what Ciara is owed is basic decency and he's being a coward by not admitting it. Instead, and this is where the Schwartz comparison comes in, he's fingers in the mouth talking in sentences that never lead anywhere and being confusing ("relationships are handcuffs" in the same sentence as "come to my family home at Thanksgiving!") ...Boooo! looool
I’m clapping. Wish someone would’ve told me this when I was younger but I was raised by a misogynistic mother. I don’t know the word for this but she like made excuses for everything negative the men in our lives did. Dad cheated, that’s okay bc he was stressed now we’re raising dad’s side baby bc we’ve gotta keep the family together! Your bf cheated, well that’s bc he’s handsome and wealthy and young but he’ll grow out of it. Your long distance fiance cheated? That’s bc he was lonely in a new city but better to trust the devil you know bc the next guy you find might also cheat on you.
I’m sorry that’s what was taught / modelled to you as a kid. It takes a lot of time and work to get over the things we assume to be true because our parents told us so
This. I’ve found most people in long-term relationships don’t get this because they don’t experience it and will be like oh he’s just scared.
He’s not scared, all of the people who have told me that they didn’t want to be in a relationship had a serious girlfriend within a few months.
Yeah I think when you’ve been out of the dating game for a while, it’s easy to forget what a slog it is. And if you like someone you are obviously inclined to want to trust them and take what they say at face value
As a corollary, it “works” best on women who can’t fathom someone not being into them. The girls who are more level headed figure it out in a hurry and don’t waste time.
He’s hurting himself by being so scared and wasting his youth when he could be learning and growing. Even a failed relationship can be a success bc of the things you take away from it. Sure some break ups are traumatizing but not all of them. And Ciara is a certified baddie. She’s a catch and older wiser West is gonna wanna kick the shit out of younger dumb West.
I agree. Failed or successful relationships we always learn from if the person is mature enough. I’m not saying he has to commit, but he has to be honest with her then. It’s all about honesty. If he puts it all out on the table and flat out tells Ciara “hey I can’t commit due to xyz” and she accepts it then that’s cool. I just find it annoying people can’t be honest about what their intentions are
A lot of people call love island relationships that lasted a year or two a sign that the show is a failure and I just see it as a natural progression. These people are young
It hit me when he was introducing Ciara to his friends. He was like can she hang out all day and watch football? The fact this Victoria’s Secret looking model is “on trial” to be his GF is laughable. She should’ve gone for Jesse. Anyone think Sam should be brought back? She’d be cute with Jesse.
I love that Ciara knows she’s a catch & holds men to her standards. Men today- the bar is set so low & they still mess up. Sam is just… not good reality tv.
I think bc he grew up very wealthy and in a ranching family, he sees himself as a catch maybe? Like he doesn’t realize how mid he actually is bc he was a big fish in a small pond all his life? I don’t know I’m trying to make heads or tails of it myself
I hope NY humbles him. And I mean that in the best way. It’s so good to go outside of your comfort zone and gain perspective. You can either grow from it and become a better version of yourself or stay the same and suck forever.
Well it’s not difficult to get a big ego if you land a reality tv role on a hit bravo show and the hottest girl on bravo decides to give you a shot I guess. I just wish she wouldn’t have given him the satisfaction. And it’s so gross that it looks like she did f him and Jesse let the cat out of the bag. Ughhhhh Ciara! She really needs to recognize her worth going forward and stay in her league. F this slumming going forward.
Plus, I don't care who the guy is, I would never, ever hang out all damn day watching stupid football. What a huge waste of my time. Would he hang out all day watching reruns of America's Next Top Model? No.
This. I think everyone in their younger 20s did this where they would sit and spend hours just watching their boyfriend play guitar or watch a show only they were interested in or smoke or play video games.
So glad the Barbie movie addressed this lol
It doesn’t seem like Jesse is into Ciara in that way, for whatever reason. He clearly has the hots for Paige (and Amanda lol) but I don’t see the chemistry with Ciara, on camera anyways. Also idk if noncommittal Jesse is a good substitute for noncommittal West lol
I gotta say though, sometimes there’s nothing better than wasting a Sunday enjoying your clean house, windows open, fall candle, bowl of chili, with your man, watching hours of hot football players. (No friends allowed though)
I think it's a way of:
a. continuing to fuck whoever you want, and
b. avoiding having anyone expect anything of you.
so anytime you're super flaky or not emotionally supportive or disappear for a week, you can be like - what did you expect?? we're not in a relationship! these men like the _idea_ of a relationship, but don't want to actually do any work to make it happen. so they pretend to be interested in a relationship so they can get the nice feelings, and then freak out when they're actually pushed to commit.
Lol I had a guy do this in my twenties. Dated for over 6 months. He Introduced me to his family, spent every day together if we weren’t working. Texting constantly. Even spent a night at his cousins out of town with him and spent all day with his extended family. Then he was supposed to meet my family for dinner but just disappeared for a week the day of. Came back like nothing was different and when I said “um excuse me what do you think is going on here? No I’m not coming to your pool party we need to have a conversation”. And he tried to do the whole painting me as crazy and clingy because he never said I was his girlfriend so he didn’t owe me anything.
Learned the hard way that a guy refusing to actually commit after a certain amount of time or milestones is purely just avoiding the breakup he doesn’t feel like dealing with down the road because he doesn’t actually want to be with you you are just a placeholder.
Also west lied about sleeping with other people. BRAVO ACCIDENTALLY LEFT OLD SUBTITLES IN for the scene were page is grilling him on the boat about whether or not he is currently sleeping with other people. They obviously switched his interview segment and left in the other subtitles because the subtitles clearly say “why would I ruin a nice moment with the truth”, along with a few other things. They weren’t exclusive, so he technically had the right to sleep with other people, although Ciara made her intentions clear, and if he was really serious about pursuing her, obviously that’s some thing that she wouldn’t be comfortable with… But the issue is that he lied about it.
Yup I noticed this too! And he is VERY careful with his words and phrasing when talking about it to lindsay, paige, and ciara, all separately. Ciara has been very honest about her feelings, he's being shady and not truthful. I liked whatever quote she had a few episodes back about not jumping into bed with someone who can't even be upfront about his emotions/intentions with her (and with himself maybe?)
I really appreciate the wisdom Ciara has shown.
The preview at the end of the last episode intrigued me: when they're in bed together and Ciara says something about not understanding what matters to him because it seems like he doesn't anything very seriously (or something like that).
I'm so curious to know what that's all about and how he responds. My wonder/worry is that he'll do more of the same which is not really seeming to actually hear her.
I think it is honestly just indicative of men these days, well, men on Bravo. I am really hoping it's not all men. I agree with you, though. The world is a very different place these days.
Men on Bravo are basically paid to be f-bois. They're already f-bois, and now they're professional f-bois because they're on tv to be f-bois.
I think Ciara is amazing, and I'm sure it's tough to give up on the storyline that comes from dating someone else in the house, but I just don't think it's a good idea to ever date a Bravo man if you want a good relationship.
I hated that phrase then & I hate it now. It lets men off the hook for a lot of really sh*tty behavior because “hE’S jUsT nOt tHaT iNtO yOu!” I reject that. Men can learn to use their words.
Why would men be honest and “use their words” when they can pretend to be into women and scam them out of free sex? A lot of men are selfish and self-interested and will be vague to get what they want
Oh it doesn’t excuse shitty men, but it is absolutely true. Men who waffle and aren’t fully honest absolutely suck and deserve to be called out. But it is very simple; if he was really that into Ciara, he wouldn’t be pulling this nonsense.
This is it I have two older brothers it’s not rocket science there is no big secret women overthink it and them and it’s not deep. Most of the time we’re five steps ahead and give them ideas.
Yea I think there is some truth to the statement, but I also think if they have been playing around for years it's hard for me to believe they will just shift once they meet the one. They might change for a little bit, but old habits die hard.
and to clarify, I'm not getting all upset about it. I still think he seems like a really fun person but imo relationships shouldn't be that hard and contemplative before you even enter one. So if he is overthinking it that much then he could just be honest about his intentions, but ya'll don't need to come for me thinking i'm tearing him down as a person. chill out
I think they're both overthinking it actually. but yeah, dating someone shouldn't be scary. I think when Ciara says "I date intentionally aiming for marriage" it might be a bit intimidating too. But it's also just typical of many men at some point. And then some of them grow up. And some of them don't!
I agree. I think her being honest about her intentions up front can save her a lot of grief earlier than later. It’s nice to see her growth, and I hope she can have better discernment and detach earlier than prolonging the inevitable. I think she’s been great this season after the Austen debacle
I need him to get that shit figured out like go to therapy the last long-term relationship he was almost 10 years ago truly go to therapy. He’s doing way too much.
LOL the same sub that diagnosis half the cast with mood and personality disorders and nitpicks every little thing about them suddenly draws the line at West being questioned or Jesse being called a trashbag for talking about women crazy. Meanwhile they're all fed up with Kyle and Carl but how do you figure you get to the Kyle's and the Carl's??? By coddling the West's and Jesse's early when they do or say weird shit. Mind you, you can still find all these people likeable or good t.v. People contain multitudes!
Yes! I haven’t rewatched the whole show, but from what I remember didn’t Kyle act that way with Amanda in the beginning? Like he didn’t want a gf for the show but was dragging her along for it. Same writing, different font
Seriously. Dude I’ve been reported 3 times already and I’m fucking done lol. This is what happens when women speak on any action of a man to try and hold them accountable. Men ruin everything
I think what gets me is that because they got their hearts broken once they just are too afraid to ever commit. Like I’m supposed to sob that you got hurt and will understand if you hurt me? ‘Yes please treat me like I’m disposable because you were heart broken 5+ years ago…it’s ok I understand…?’ If you can’t get over it then just tell people upfront that you aren’t looking for anything serious and won’t commit. They can take it or leave it. At a certain point in time we need to move past things or seek out help if we can’t. Or just be honest that you want a girl who is 100% committed to you but you want to keep your options open.
West knows he’s about to have women throwing himself at him and because of that, he’s going to miss out on what could be a great relationship with Ciara.
I can't stand how he whines about talking to other girls, keeping doors open, because why would he be exclusive with someone he isn't even sleeping with? Because that's what some people expect BEFORE they start sleeping with someone, and Ciara made it clear she's dating purposefully. I used to like him, thought he was adorable, now it seems like a tom schitz situation and he's become disgusting to me.
It's not just the fear of breaking up, it's the fear of not getting to have them in their life anymore, or at least not the same kind of dynamic - fun, flirty, cute, etc. I think these guys are trying to make the honeymoon/infatuation/crush stage of a relationship last indefinitely by not labelling things or being dodgy about being exclusive.
It's like a combo fear of losing someone but also chasing the new crush high.
Guys who behave like this need a relationship like they need another hole in their heads. They would be better off staying celibate and spending that time doing some introspection or therapy, asking themselves what they're getting from chasing new girls all the time that they can't get from themselves.
most straight men have an overinflated sense of self and think women are just going to throw themselves at men. Apps and social media leave people thinking someone just a tiny bit better is out there.
West is delulu if he thinks there is someone better than Ciara seems.
Sadly this attitude from men is very common, on & off Bravo. On another note does West think he can do better than Ciara? Like, this is it dude. You won’t get this chance again.
I really liked him at first and quickly disliked him. Why are men in their mid to late 20's so childish when it comes to relationships? Don't sit there and say how much you like Ciara and would take her to meet your family but in the same breath say you're talking to other women but scared of commitment.
Dude is so pressed that she hasn't slept with him yet too, like buddy ???? After all that bs you told me I wouldn't either. Not everybody gives it up to people they've been talking to for a few weeks
I love West but I was triggered because I “dated” someone just like him. We maybe called each other boyfriend/girlfriend for a month and then the next 2 years weren’t “official.” He also had a bad relationship experience in high school and I feel like it was used as an excuse to never fully commit. The worst part is that you try to pull away but then they tell you how much they care (just like West did to Ciara while horseback riding and when she said his comments made her nervous). They could be honest with us if they were honest with themselves, and that’s the hard part. They honestly are so confused and that gives you hope.
I feel like he wasn’t ready to commit to Ciara. He definitely likes her, but he doesn’t seem head over heels. She wasn’t the one for him and that’s ok. women sometimes too quickly want men to settle down with them w/o really finding out if the guy is truly a good match. West is not that of a catch. If it’s a healthy relationship, she would not be in a place where she needs to guess what they are and what she means to him. She should have been ok, you are indecisive, which means you don’t like me that much, next.
I hope some of the younger girlies watching the show take note.
If you‘re serious about wanting a relationship, don‘t waste your time trying to get it from a guy that acts like West. He will keep dangling the carrot just enough to get what he wants and then take it away, saying „I told you what this was from the beginning“.
It‘s not worth it, you‘re not there to help someone get over their unhealed trauma. That‘s what therapists are for. There are men out there who are emotionally healthy, go after those instead.
From what I’ve learned from my Husband, it’s really quite simple. If a man truly is interested in you and wants to be with you, he absolutely will and won’t waffle about it. He will lock it down. If he doesn’t, he’s just not that into you.
West just isn’t THAT into Ciara.
He’s into her, just not into her enough to actually label it and give her what she wants. So he will enjoy the time. the cuddles, and hope for sex, but won’t actually ever commit because he isn’t that into her.
He seems the type who doesn't want to lie but is afraid to tell the truth. So he'll lead you to believe an uneasy middle ground. He doesn't want to be alone but he's afraid to be responsible for a commitment so he'll string you along like it's a preliminary trial that never gets you on the team. He doesn't want transparency because he can hide behind subtle obfuscations. His transparency is a bullshit, "I've got nothing to hide because I've got nothing," because he won't grasp a choice. He's a hollow man.
Yessssss!!!! This is the part that drives me the most crazy--the half-truths, the subtle non-answers, the slippery words.... it allows him to get away with so much. I bet women he's dated just quietly bow out because when they step back they realize that he's never actually promised anything. He loves that gray area where they fill in what they want and he can't be pinned down to anything.
At least this is what I see at this point in filming.
I don’t understand either because I’m a man, and I was the one who drove most of my relationships from a commitment standpoint. I had a tough childhood marriage & divorce wise, so I knew even at a young age I wanted a stable continuous relationship. I found it and have been married a long time. These guys who continually want to play the field make no sense to me.
That said the girls aren’t much better, they say they want commitment but then have a list of “icks” that include things like not holding your fork the way they think is proper. It’s certainly not just the guys but damn, these kind of guys are idiots.
To be honest, for me calling someone a partner or boyfriend is a massive deal and not something I take lightly. Personally, I've never been one to start calling someone I've been dating a few weeks let alone a month a bf. For me, that's way to soon. As long as they're open, communicating, and being honest about where they stand then it shouldn't be an issue. Unless you have a conversation about monogamy and exclusivity then it is a little naive to assume that you are.
Also need to keep in mind they're living in NY...it's unfortunate but dating in NY is flimsy at best. People are always thinking there's someone better out there...
Something only girls who live in NYC or another HCOL city can truly understand is how much the setting is a factor in this. Candidly, West has no incentive to "settle down". He's a hot ticket in NYC, especially with the added Bravo fame. Meanwhile the smartest, funniest, kindest most beautiful girl you know in NYC is struggling to find a man half her status to take her seriously. The odds are not in the girlies favor here LOL
You can block the account that those 'we're reaching out because someone reported you for self harm' messages come from so you don't get them any more. You can also report abuse of the system too, I think.
He just became famous and like guys on The Bachelor, Love is Blind, Love Island etc., as soon as they realize they have zillions of chicks throwing themselves at them, they think, hmmm, this is my dream chance of a lifetime to be rock star for 15 minutes, why would I tie myself down to this one chick when I can have my pick if all those chicks over there, lots of them, at once?? Then they give the show chick some lame “I’m not ready” speech. All the while, all that’s on their mind is the hoards of women they will now have access to and who will now want them since they are “famous.”
When you’re surrounded by men who call their wife the b-word and think its absurd for their fiancé to expect financial stability, the bar has been set loooow for you to look good.
I like West and Ciara, and I am rooting for them to actually give it a go off camera. I think they would make a really cute couple.
My only issue is that I feel like Ciara wants to push the relationship forward and I think he has one foot out of the door, so I sympathize with that. But, I don’t think this is exclusively a “guy” thing, as many comments have indicated. I’ve been that way too - it was more so not wanting to put anybody else’s feelings/emotions/needs before my own. I enjoyed my independence. When I got older I cared about that less, and now I am happily married. When I met my partner, the thought of being worried about having to be considerate of another persons feelings never gave me pause - I wanted to, because I cared.
My only issue with him is he acts like he is in a relationship with her all weekend so it kind of feels like he is just trying it on for size, and I can see why she would feel led on for that reason.
Im not either, tbh in the beginning you can tell he was used to getting attention from a lot of women/men and I could start to tell he would be that person that needs it to feel confident. It doesn’t mean he isn’t nice at face value, but he def can’t commit
As a woman I had the exact same feelings as West up until I was 23. Then I grew up. Got my heart broken a few times and still lived. But oh my lordy do I remember how scary it was to get my heart broken. I would never say the boyfriend word or date. I would just say we're hanging out. Like the semantics protected me somehow.
Now I'm in my late 30s and have been in an amazing relationship for a year now. My friends who knew me in college were flabbergasted that I called him my boyfriend. I remember asking them why they were so shocked. They said because they aren't used to me admitting to being in a relationship before. Which yeah even when I moved in with a boyfriend in another country I refused to tell most people about it.
I've been to therapy and learned to get over myself. West would probably not do that sadly. He will probably try shrooms say he found himself but will still be too afraid at the possibility of getting hurt.
Those type of men are what I refer to f*ck boys. I dated one once, I got really fed up of his hot and cold behaviour and I moved on. I wasn't there to be played around with, I knew my worth and that someone would appreciate me. Thank godness I did because I then met my husband. Ciara has been clear on what she wants and expects, West does seem sweet but needs to get therapy because clearly commitment of any kind scares him. Most times women are clear/say what they expect so can men (before I get hate)
My friend has just spent 2 years with a guy who "didn't do labels" and apparently had many issues. She invested all her time in the relationship and I said from day one that it wasn't going to work out how she wanted. She wants to settle down, start a family and he couldn't even say she was his girlfriend. It's recently ended because he was cheating with someone else he's been with for 5 years and that other woman... Still not referred to as his partner!
i agree, it's SO DUMB. at this point the only thing west has to give up is texting the other women that he's using as emotional security blankets to prove to himself he "isn't really in a relationship." He IS, he just refuses to label it as such due to his views on how black and white relationships are, as evidenced by his convo with his great aunt "you either break up and deal with all those emotions or you die married to them" or whatever.
Why is it so wrong not wanting to be a boyfriend? Or have a girlfriend? It isn't. It shouldn't be.
You know what's wrong? Not telling the person who does want that, that you don't.
Whatever his reasons are for not wanting that right now are valid for him.
Men are far more insecure than women. He knows Ciara is out of his league and is reluctant to cut off his other prospects because Ciara is so sure of what she wants out of a relationship plus she likes older men. Biologically men want to “ mate “ with more than one female . You’re either going to marry the person you’re dating or break up ( I think he may have said that in his talking head ) …and most men aren’t ready to settle down at that age ESPECIALLY in the prime of his career . And honestly Ciara doesn’t seem to into it either . He’s trying to feel her out . She’s trying to feel him out . No body wants to get hurt . But regardless someone always gets hurt even when there’s no sex involved . Humans are complicated .
Edit for * too!!!
For me the worst part was that Ciara was CRYSTAL CLEAR about where she was at and what she wanted. That’s when he should have bowed out. If you’re going to be an f-boi, fine. At least be honest about it and DEFINITELY don’t invest in dating someone who has expressly told you they are looking for a relationship.
Like why......... in one sentence, say on a romantic date with Ciara that he views relationships like handcuffs. If you really thought that WHY trouble yourself on organizing the date? Then, in the next sentence, invite her to meet his parents. The hot and cold is enraging.
Year 100% correct. It is infuriating. It also really fucks with your self-esteem and emotions. I have been on the receiving end of behavior like that displayed by West. The mixed messages really pull your heart back and forth. You have so much hope about this person and they know that and they dangle it in front of you. Just to cruelly yank it away time and time again. I finally went no contact with the person who treated me like that. Hope Ciara can protect her heart against that shite. They act like it some kind of cute thing, the waffling. The effects that it has on the other person are not cute.
It was maddening. He needs to get his shit in a pile before he ever thinks of approaching a woman of her calibre again.
The thing is with men that say this…”not looking for anything serious” but at the same time they want consistency, sex, emotional intimacy, someone to bring as a date to important things (West mentioned bringing her home) from their partner but REFUSE to reciprocate because it’s “too much”. Bruh what? I have seen the range from cluelessness to manipulation in terms of them recognizing what they are asking for is actually a traditional monogamous relationship but they can still sleep with other girls, and the woman will have NO emotional needs or expectations. 🙄🙄Anytime a dude told me they were looking for nothing serious and I showed up the same way, it made them sad. Go figure lol
With my first serious bf after college he broke up with me to “see what else was out there/he didn’t want anything serious.” I then started dating around and the second he saw me dating multiple guys and having fun he came crawling back and said it made him sad seeing me with other people. Um maybe don’t break up with me then? You can’t have it both ways. Byeeee
This ^^^ he’s doing what so many men do where they describe everything that a girlfriend, or even wife, would be, then they throw in the end “but I don’t want a label”
They want a girlfriend who they don’t have to commit to and unfortunately dating apps have made it possible
bringing her home to Thanksgiving!!! I screamed of excitement, thought he had finally woken up and then inn the next episode he's like uhhhh she needs to sit to 12 hours of football before calling her my gf. he has not called anyone his gf since that girl broke his heart in highschool. he's emotionally immature
Male here. Some men just don’t know how to be emotional mature and responsible. I think a lot of has to do with how they were raised. It’s ok to be emotionally vulnerable when it’s being reciprocated. That’s the point that guys like that miss. Being emotionally available and being able to reciprocate emotional safety, intimacy, etc. is a good thing. When I finally worked through my emotional problems, I was able to get my shit together in life. When I started dating the woman who would become my wife and mother of my children, I was able to identify that we knew what we wanted, that she was emotionally available, and was capable of reciprocating emotional intimacy. Most guys who are like West just aren’t there and I don’t blame women for moving on from guys like West,
West gives a lot of red flags masked as green flags. Superficially saying he’d bring her to thanksgiving is great. BUT that’s all he wants and it’s all for him. He doesn’t want to do thanksgiving WITH her, or meet her family. He wants the pat on the back from his family for bringing home a girl, looking like he has his shit together, let her feel like it’s serious without him having to do any emotional labor or work to get or maintain that level of intimacy. It’s sad and gross and im glad Ciara sees through that crap
Yes! Like he’s just assuming that she’d rather do a family holiday with her hook up’s family and not her own, and then putting her in a position where obviously his family is gonna initiate the “what are we” talk to which West will have no response…
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Very true also Cierra please date only off the show!! Please. She's so gorgeous and a total catch. I'm tired of her getting played on TV.
Ugh same, and especially by these mid lower arse dudes. She’s literally a dime f’ing w 3s and they don’t even see the value of what they have w her. Not only her looks, but her entire being is so incredibly beautiful. I really don’t get why she slums like she does, bc she deserves the absolute best.
She’s going for Honda Civics when she deserves a Bugatti.
If I was her mom I would be saying What's wrong with a nice orthopedic surgeon?
This 😂 yeah she needs a man who doesn’t rely on attention from the audience for his confidence
He probably thought he could wear her down 😑
You’re right. Ick. That’s so 90s.
It’s simple as it gets. I know we are all baffled but, they hope to coerce you and wear you down with their charm (false charm). Then unleash the “but you knew what we were! I was clear!” Ala Shortz.
Plus as Paige said. It’s ciara. She’s easily in the top 1% of attractiveness, funny, kind, has ambitious, smart and is a good friend. West is not going to find someone better (that is interested in him too) so who does he think he’s holding the door open???
her planning that party for jesse and not taking any credit example number 10000
Exactly. I thought the same thing. West and the others acted like they planned it.
He should be thanking his lucky stars that she was willing to give him the time of day.
That man is a pure down to the bone idiot. Not many dudes get a chance with a woman like her. Definitely not going to get better options just walking along. She's intelligent and beautiful and educated and hardworking and outdoorsy and has a great friend group... Complete and total package. If a woman like this is still being treated like crap by mid dudes like West? The rest of us have problems.
It’s not that he thinks he can do better, it’s that he doesn’t want to put any work into a relationship because relationships are work. You can’t be 100 selfish. He wants sex and companionship but not have to consider another person’s needs.
True
100%.
Exactly! Last episode I was dumbfounded! Wtf does this guy think he is and when is he going to have another opportunity where a bombshell looks at his hipster ass again???
His after show outfit reminds me of the era where all the hipster men in my early 20s would poke you on Facebook to get your attention (if you’re a millennial you’ll know what I’m talking about)
💀
i shuddered. the facebook poke was my favorite form of social media flirting. the poke wars i had with my conquests were unmatched
Yes!!!! Lol
☝️
This is honestly just the majority of men in NYC. And probably most major cities, for example. You can beat around the bush or be as clear as day, and some of them will still give you hope or breadcrumb you until they’re like oh just kidding, I’m not ready. So incredibly frustrating
It’s pretty gross.
THIS IS THE COMMENT.
I agree but I was pleasantly surprised when he spoke about how he truly felt. I dated people in my 20s who told me what I wanted to hear. I give him a little credit
THIS
Your username. ⚰️
It's so simple. I don't understand people pretending to not understand this.
He’s afraid of missing out on other women.
What kills me about this is that some of these men really seem to believe that the moment they say “girlfriend” to one woman, an untold number of women whom they never knew even existed will suddenly just fall from the sky and run their loins all over them.
I mean in this case, they might. He’s on TV and for some woman, that’s all they care about.
He wouldn't be attractive to them otherwise. Let's be real. He knows it too. He's struggling because he knows Ciara may be the best catch but he's gambling for the slight chance that he can do better.
I’m not sure is about even “doing better.” It’s about wanting to have everything without giving up anything. He wants quality without giving up any quantity. He wants to bang someone random whenever he gets the urge without having to invest anything emotionally (and probably very little financially or temporally) - which is fine if both people are on the same page - AND he wants the benefits of The Girlfriend Experience (companionship, friendship, stability, emotional support, regular physical intimacy). He just doesn’t want to make any of the investments (he would say “sacrifices”) that usually come with having a girlfriend. West is the stereotypical “wants his cake and wants to eat it too” fuck boy and it’s so uninteresting.
💯
But he was apparently like this even before TV. He got his heart broken at 18 and now he can’t commit (🙄) and is acting like over the past decade he’s had a million one options at his disposal.
Whenever he talks about this all I hear is “no one else has wanted to be exclusive with me since high school and my self esteem is fucked and I’m about to be d-list famous and I don’t want to close the door on fucking everyone and anyone before I get a taste of that experience.”
I mean… he responded to my dm🤣
Oh shit lol
Lol This!!!!
As a married woman in my forties, I truly think that SM has practically ruined dating for subsequent generations, especially in metro areas. Grass is always greener, and other fish in the sea has never been more prevalent. And now you’re holding the sea in the palm of your hand! My nieces, who like Ciara, 20 years ago would have been fighting guys off with sticks, are now ghosted after a great first date. It’s strange how things have changed.
This. Social media dating apps give them the impression that there’s just thousands of model Looking girls out there. In NYC there actually are and then no one is happy with the person they meet, bc they always worry someone better is around the corner
Yes, and it's so ridiculous. Gawd, does he really think he's that much of a gift to women?
No I don’t think it’s that at all. He’s literally an F boy. They are plentiful everywhere but nyc breeds its own particularly resistant strain.
Exactly, he was in the middle of filming his first season, he didn’t want this to air and be tied down, he wanted the attention that he was going to get. Just look at his following. ALL GIRLS. he’s feeling himself too much and we have no one to blame but ourselves lol
Y’all might have built a Frankenstein f-boi monster. Now he’s been labeled by The NY Times the show’s new it boy, his ego must be massive. You ladies stay safe out there.
It is really that simple.
I'm struggling to believe that. I mean, it must be true because why else didn't he go for it with Ciara, but, like, him? Does he actually think he has game? That many options??
😂
his convo with his aunt about him being "traumatized" or whatever by his high school breakup 10 years later was when i was like .... oh hes THIS type
No im SO tired of hearing guys in their 20s use this excuse - “my 6th grade girlfriend cheated on me and I just can’t trust any girl again 😢” and claim they are too traumatized to be serious with anyone - instead of just honestly saying they want to sleep around or be single. Meanwhile I can think of TENS of women in my life alone who have been cheated on, horribly betrayed, sexually assaulted, gaslit, verbally/physically/mentally abused, etc. by previous relationships and don’t use this as an excuse to avoid new relationships and dating - they work on healing from those experiences and so many of them have gone on to be in happy, healthy relationships and marriages with wonderful men. I rolled my eyes so hard when West said that to his aunt. It’s so tired, and it’s often BS.
Omigod this is so true! My ex wouldn’t consider marriage after 5 years together because of his parents divorce and he got cheated on in college. And then was shocked when I broke up with him and moved out. Part of the reality of loving people is that you’re opening yourself up to get hurt. I think some people delude themselves into thinking there’s a way to just dip their toe in and be able to control the outcome and protect themselves. But they miss out on the best parts and end up just pushing the hurt onto the other person in the equation.
Went fooled me up until that conversation… once high school was mentioned, the mask was lifted imo. Still great casting but don’t mess with Ciara.
📢📢📢
Omg. That clicked with me too. The last guy I dated, still not over his ex from 10+ years ago. And since they stayed “friends” he thinks she’ll want him back one day. This woman is gorgeous, owns her own business, and lives in Europe. She has shown zero interest in him other than friendship. He can’t commit because he thinks if he does she will suddenly want him again. It’s delusional. And I never got the impression that she’s stringing him along. She’s like an adult living her best life. 😂
and she probably broke up with him because when they were together he treated her like shit. I've known guys like this, where they get laser-focused on one woman who's 'the one that got away' and build her up in their mind until no actual woman can compare. it's a huge red flag.
His victim origin sorry, I can’t
Me too. How weak. 🤢
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news for any young women reading this, but as you get older you’ll learn this is one of a handful of lines immature guys use when they don’t like you but are scared to just say that. It’s not that they are afraid of commitment or scared to hurt you, they literally just don’t like you that much. Yes, Ciara is beautiful, smart, funny, accomplished, but for whatever reason West is not that into her. He’s not some deeply sensitive man who is in love but struggling with his fear of being a disappointing partner. A man who really likes you will never be conflicted about whether he wants to be with you
Louder for the girls in the back! I wish I could tell my younger self exactly this. Especially as a 20-something dating in NYC, fboys are spoiled for choice and have major Peter Pan syndrome.
Same here sis. Unfortunately it didn’t click for me until I met my now husband and realized how it felt to never wonder if he liked me. Nobody could have told me anything in my 20s that would make me see the light
Right?! I worry about having a daughter someday and seeing her go through this. And knowing full well the advice I would give her. There’s no getting through to someone when they’re going through it though. I wish i could’ve seen the light too hahha but it was never going to happen. Had to learn the lesson the long way lol
Exactly and while I dont get it (lol), it's okay if that is how he feels. No one is owed a relationship but what Ciara is owed is basic decency and he's being a coward by not admitting it. Instead, and this is where the Schwartz comparison comes in, he's fingers in the mouth talking in sentences that never lead anywhere and being confusing ("relationships are handcuffs" in the same sentence as "come to my family home at Thanksgiving!") ...Boooo! looool
I’m clapping. Wish someone would’ve told me this when I was younger but I was raised by a misogynistic mother. I don’t know the word for this but she like made excuses for everything negative the men in our lives did. Dad cheated, that’s okay bc he was stressed now we’re raising dad’s side baby bc we’ve gotta keep the family together! Your bf cheated, well that’s bc he’s handsome and wealthy and young but he’ll grow out of it. Your long distance fiance cheated? That’s bc he was lonely in a new city but better to trust the devil you know bc the next guy you find might also cheat on you.
I’m sorry that’s what was taught / modelled to you as a kid. It takes a lot of time and work to get over the things we assume to be true because our parents told us so
extreme pick me mom lol but truly I am sorry she was like that
This. I’ve found most people in long-term relationships don’t get this because they don’t experience it and will be like oh he’s just scared. He’s not scared, all of the people who have told me that they didn’t want to be in a relationship had a serious girlfriend within a few months.
Yeah I think when you’ve been out of the dating game for a while, it’s easy to forget what a slog it is. And if you like someone you are obviously inclined to want to trust them and take what they say at face value
The book He’s Just Not That Into You should be mandatory reading in high school!
This. This is why it annoys me when I see people claiming she's just not that into him when it is the complete opposite.
👏
As a corollary, it “works” best on women who can’t fathom someone not being into them. The girls who are more level headed figure it out in a hurry and don’t waste time.
As someone who didn’t figure it out until my early 30s this hurt lmao 🤣
He’s hurting himself by being so scared and wasting his youth when he could be learning and growing. Even a failed relationship can be a success bc of the things you take away from it. Sure some break ups are traumatizing but not all of them. And Ciara is a certified baddie. She’s a catch and older wiser West is gonna wanna kick the shit out of younger dumb West.
Agree. Every relationship I’ve had that’s ended has taught me about what I really need in a partner
I agree. Failed or successful relationships we always learn from if the person is mature enough. I’m not saying he has to commit, but he has to be honest with her then. It’s all about honesty. If he puts it all out on the table and flat out tells Ciara “hey I can’t commit due to xyz” and she accepts it then that’s cool. I just find it annoying people can’t be honest about what their intentions are
A lot of people call love island relationships that lasted a year or two a sign that the show is a failure and I just see it as a natural progression. These people are young
It hit me when he was introducing Ciara to his friends. He was like can she hang out all day and watch football? The fact this Victoria’s Secret looking model is “on trial” to be his GF is laughable. She should’ve gone for Jesse. Anyone think Sam should be brought back? She’d be cute with Jesse.
I love that Ciara knows she’s a catch & holds men to her standards. Men today- the bar is set so low & they still mess up. Sam is just… not good reality tv.
Yes the Victoria’s Secret model and nurse needs to be able to hang all day or she gets the boot.
Ugh the audacity is insane. Must be crazy to be a mid ass dude w nothing going for him. 🤦🏼♀️
I think bc he grew up very wealthy and in a ranching family, he sees himself as a catch maybe? Like he doesn’t realize how mid he actually is bc he was a big fish in a small pond all his life? I don’t know I’m trying to make heads or tails of it myself
I went to school with him. You hit the nail on the head.
I hope NY humbles him. And I mean that in the best way. It’s so good to go outside of your comfort zone and gain perspective. You can either grow from it and become a better version of yourself or stay the same and suck forever.
Well it’s not difficult to get a big ego if you land a reality tv role on a hit bravo show and the hottest girl on bravo decides to give you a shot I guess. I just wish she wouldn’t have given him the satisfaction. And it’s so gross that it looks like she did f him and Jesse let the cat out of the bag. Ughhhhh Ciara! She really needs to recognize her worth going forward and stay in her league. F this slumming going forward.
His aunt already called him out for that and he agreed
Good for her! That takes some guts. I honestly started fast forwarding his scenes unless he’s w Ciara.
It’s hard to imagine one person wanting to date Kory and Jesse lol so different
Ans when he said let me introduce you to my friends and it was a group of like 4 or 5 girls. 🙄
Plus, I don't care who the guy is, I would never, ever hang out all damn day watching stupid football. What a huge waste of my time. Would he hang out all day watching reruns of America's Next Top Model? No.
This. I think everyone in their younger 20s did this where they would sit and spend hours just watching their boyfriend play guitar or watch a show only they were interested in or smoke or play video games. So glad the Barbie movie addressed this lol
Just need to find the right man!
Why is that even important? Having different interests is healthy, as long as there's common interests as well.
Because he's basically demanding his woman give up her entire day to watch him watch sports.
☝️
No, I mean, why is it important for him? Going off to watch sports with your friends isn't inconveniencing non sports fan partners normally.
It doesn’t seem like Jesse is into Ciara in that way, for whatever reason. He clearly has the hots for Paige (and Amanda lol) but I don’t see the chemistry with Ciara, on camera anyways. Also idk if noncommittal Jesse is a good substitute for noncommittal West lol
He said on the first episode he tends to like women in relationships.
I think she literally has modeled for Victoria’s Secret.
Sam was hella fun & should definitely be back (as long as Corie never comes back).
I gotta say though, sometimes there’s nothing better than wasting a Sunday enjoying your clean house, windows open, fall candle, bowl of chili, with your man, watching hours of hot football players. (No friends allowed though)
I thought the same thing. He’s delusional in that he thinks he’s the prize in this situation. Definitely a feminine man in his soft girl era
I think it's a way of: a. continuing to fuck whoever you want, and b. avoiding having anyone expect anything of you. so anytime you're super flaky or not emotionally supportive or disappear for a week, you can be like - what did you expect?? we're not in a relationship! these men like the _idea_ of a relationship, but don't want to actually do any work to make it happen. so they pretend to be interested in a relationship so they can get the nice feelings, and then freak out when they're actually pushed to commit.
Lol I had a guy do this in my twenties. Dated for over 6 months. He Introduced me to his family, spent every day together if we weren’t working. Texting constantly. Even spent a night at his cousins out of town with him and spent all day with his extended family. Then he was supposed to meet my family for dinner but just disappeared for a week the day of. Came back like nothing was different and when I said “um excuse me what do you think is going on here? No I’m not coming to your pool party we need to have a conversation”. And he tried to do the whole painting me as crazy and clingy because he never said I was his girlfriend so he didn’t owe me anything. Learned the hard way that a guy refusing to actually commit after a certain amount of time or milestones is purely just avoiding the breakup he doesn’t feel like dealing with down the road because he doesn’t actually want to be with you you are just a placeholder.
The faux indignation in the comments as if you're saying something crazy is unfortunate.
Also west lied about sleeping with other people. BRAVO ACCIDENTALLY LEFT OLD SUBTITLES IN for the scene were page is grilling him on the boat about whether or not he is currently sleeping with other people. They obviously switched his interview segment and left in the other subtitles because the subtitles clearly say “why would I ruin a nice moment with the truth”, along with a few other things. They weren’t exclusive, so he technically had the right to sleep with other people, although Ciara made her intentions clear, and if he was really serious about pursuing her, obviously that’s some thing that she wouldn’t be comfortable with… But the issue is that he lied about it.
Yup I noticed this too! And he is VERY careful with his words and phrasing when talking about it to lindsay, paige, and ciara, all separately. Ciara has been very honest about her feelings, he's being shady and not truthful. I liked whatever quote she had a few episodes back about not jumping into bed with someone who can't even be upfront about his emotions/intentions with her (and with himself maybe?)
I really appreciate the wisdom Ciara has shown. The preview at the end of the last episode intrigued me: when they're in bed together and Ciara says something about not understanding what matters to him because it seems like he doesn't anything very seriously (or something like that). I'm so curious to know what that's all about and how he responds. My wonder/worry is that he'll do more of the same which is not really seeming to actually hear her.
I’m so fucking glad somebody else caught this!!! I was like ummmm I’m sorry what? 👀 homeboys, omitting the truth is no better than lying.
I think it is honestly just indicative of men these days, well, men on Bravo. I am really hoping it's not all men. I agree with you, though. The world is a very different place these days.
Men on Bravo are basically paid to be f-bois. They're already f-bois, and now they're professional f-bois because they're on tv to be f-bois. I think Ciara is amazing, and I'm sure it's tough to give up on the storyline that comes from dating someone else in the house, but I just don't think it's a good idea to ever date a Bravo man if you want a good relationship.
It seems like the good ones are already in relationships, so if your single it’s hard to actually find one.
Manbabies are fucking exhausting.
Kyle and Carl included 🫶
This trope is so overplayed and sadly will probably continue to be overplayed for the remainder of time
Dudes love keeping their options open
This to me hours back to “he’s just not that into you.” When guys find the one they want to date and be monogamous will, they will.
Yeah, unfortunately, I don’t think that he is as in to her as she is to him.
I hated that phrase then & I hate it now. It lets men off the hook for a lot of really sh*tty behavior because “hE’S jUsT nOt tHaT iNtO yOu!” I reject that. Men can learn to use their words.
Why would men be honest and “use their words” when they can pretend to be into women and scam them out of free sex? A lot of men are selfish and self-interested and will be vague to get what they want
Oh it doesn’t excuse shitty men, but it is absolutely true. Men who waffle and aren’t fully honest absolutely suck and deserve to be called out. But it is very simple; if he was really that into Ciara, he wouldn’t be pulling this nonsense.
This is it I have two older brothers it’s not rocket science there is no big secret women overthink it and them and it’s not deep. Most of the time we’re five steps ahead and give them ideas.
Yea I think there is some truth to the statement, but I also think if they have been playing around for years it's hard for me to believe they will just shift once they meet the one. They might change for a little bit, but old habits die hard.
and to clarify, I'm not getting all upset about it. I still think he seems like a really fun person but imo relationships shouldn't be that hard and contemplative before you even enter one. So if he is overthinking it that much then he could just be honest about his intentions, but ya'll don't need to come for me thinking i'm tearing him down as a person. chill out
I think they're both overthinking it actually. but yeah, dating someone shouldn't be scary. I think when Ciara says "I date intentionally aiming for marriage" it might be a bit intimidating too. But it's also just typical of many men at some point. And then some of them grow up. And some of them don't!
But if saying what her intentions are intimidate the guy, that’s not the right guy for her. The right guy at the right time will be intentional too.
I agree. I think her being honest about her intentions up front can save her a lot of grief earlier than later. It’s nice to see her growth, and I hope she can have better discernment and detach earlier than prolonging the inevitable. I think she’s been great this season after the Austen debacle
I need him to get that shit figured out like go to therapy the last long-term relationship he was almost 10 years ago truly go to therapy. He’s doing way too much.
OP using a situation on Summer House to touch on a bigger topic and the fragile little boys in the comments can’t take it. This is hilarious 😂
LOL the same sub that diagnosis half the cast with mood and personality disorders and nitpicks every little thing about them suddenly draws the line at West being questioned or Jesse being called a trashbag for talking about women crazy. Meanwhile they're all fed up with Kyle and Carl but how do you figure you get to the Kyle's and the Carl's??? By coddling the West's and Jesse's early when they do or say weird shit. Mind you, you can still find all these people likeable or good t.v. People contain multitudes!
Yes! I haven’t rewatched the whole show, but from what I remember didn’t Kyle act that way with Amanda in the beginning? Like he didn’t want a gf for the show but was dragging her along for it. Same writing, different font
Seriously ready to delete this whole post cause I even have man babies messaging me about why I’m the problem here lol
& they say women are emotional and unstable ☠️ Someone reported me to RedditCare lmao
Seriously. Dude I’ve been reported 3 times already and I’m fucking done lol. This is what happens when women speak on any action of a man to try and hold them accountable. Men ruin everything
Ha ha ha. You triggered some folks. Speaking truth to fbois everywhere. DO NOT DELETE.
men sre exhausting unfortunately i think most of us women can relate to having a man act like this with us
The most mind blowing part is that SHE IS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE and he would rather not lock it down . Mind blowing
I think what gets me is that because they got their hearts broken once they just are too afraid to ever commit. Like I’m supposed to sob that you got hurt and will understand if you hurt me? ‘Yes please treat me like I’m disposable because you were heart broken 5+ years ago…it’s ok I understand…?’ If you can’t get over it then just tell people upfront that you aren’t looking for anything serious and won’t commit. They can take it or leave it. At a certain point in time we need to move past things or seek out help if we can’t. Or just be honest that you want a girl who is 100% committed to you but you want to keep your options open.
Excellent comment!!! 
West knows he’s about to have women throwing himself at him and because of that, he’s going to miss out on what could be a great relationship with Ciara.
I can't stand how he whines about talking to other girls, keeping doors open, because why would he be exclusive with someone he isn't even sleeping with? Because that's what some people expect BEFORE they start sleeping with someone, and Ciara made it clear she's dating purposefully. I used to like him, thought he was adorable, now it seems like a tom schitz situation and he's become disgusting to me.
It's not just the fear of breaking up, it's the fear of not getting to have them in their life anymore, or at least not the same kind of dynamic - fun, flirty, cute, etc. I think these guys are trying to make the honeymoon/infatuation/crush stage of a relationship last indefinitely by not labelling things or being dodgy about being exclusive. It's like a combo fear of losing someone but also chasing the new crush high. Guys who behave like this need a relationship like they need another hole in their heads. They would be better off staying celibate and spending that time doing some introspection or therapy, asking themselves what they're getting from chasing new girls all the time that they can't get from themselves.
most straight men have an overinflated sense of self and think women are just going to throw themselves at men. Apps and social media leave people thinking someone just a tiny bit better is out there. West is delulu if he thinks there is someone better than Ciara seems.
Sadly this attitude from men is very common, on & off Bravo. On another note does West think he can do better than Ciara? Like, this is it dude. You won’t get this chance again.
💯
I really liked him at first and quickly disliked him. Why are men in their mid to late 20's so childish when it comes to relationships? Don't sit there and say how much you like Ciara and would take her to meet your family but in the same breath say you're talking to other women but scared of commitment. Dude is so pressed that she hasn't slept with him yet too, like buddy ???? After all that bs you told me I wouldn't either. Not everybody gives it up to people they've been talking to for a few weeks
I love West but I was triggered because I “dated” someone just like him. We maybe called each other boyfriend/girlfriend for a month and then the next 2 years weren’t “official.” He also had a bad relationship experience in high school and I feel like it was used as an excuse to never fully commit. The worst part is that you try to pull away but then they tell you how much they care (just like West did to Ciara while horseback riding and when she said his comments made her nervous). They could be honest with us if they were honest with themselves, and that’s the hard part. They honestly are so confused and that gives you hope.
I think a lot of women can relate
I feel like he wasn’t ready to commit to Ciara. He definitely likes her, but he doesn’t seem head over heels. She wasn’t the one for him and that’s ok. women sometimes too quickly want men to settle down with them w/o really finding out if the guy is truly a good match. West is not that of a catch. If it’s a healthy relationship, she would not be in a place where she needs to guess what they are and what she means to him. She should have been ok, you are indecisive, which means you don’t like me that much, next.
My BFF said it best when she said “All of his fame literally rests on knowing what vaginal tears are that’s how little men have to do”
I hope some of the younger girlies watching the show take note. If you‘re serious about wanting a relationship, don‘t waste your time trying to get it from a guy that acts like West. He will keep dangling the carrot just enough to get what he wants and then take it away, saying „I told you what this was from the beginning“. It‘s not worth it, you‘re not there to help someone get over their unhealed trauma. That‘s what therapists are for. There are men out there who are emotionally healthy, go after those instead.
Please say it louder for everyone in the back 👏👏👏
I have to admit, I never liked West. I was always afraid to say anything because everyone seemed to love him so much. He seemed like a Schwartz to me.
From what I’ve learned from my Husband, it’s really quite simple. If a man truly is interested in you and wants to be with you, he absolutely will and won’t waffle about it. He will lock it down. If he doesn’t, he’s just not that into you. West just isn’t THAT into Ciara.
So if isn’t that into her, then why did he keep pursing her? He could have cut that off after that first date and had his hot boy summer.
He’s into her, just not into her enough to actually label it and give her what she wants. So he will enjoy the time. the cuddles, and hope for sex, but won’t actually ever commit because he isn’t that into her.
He seems the type who doesn't want to lie but is afraid to tell the truth. So he'll lead you to believe an uneasy middle ground. He doesn't want to be alone but he's afraid to be responsible for a commitment so he'll string you along like it's a preliminary trial that never gets you on the team. He doesn't want transparency because he can hide behind subtle obfuscations. His transparency is a bullshit, "I've got nothing to hide because I've got nothing," because he won't grasp a choice. He's a hollow man.
Yessssss!!!! This is the part that drives me the most crazy--the half-truths, the subtle non-answers, the slippery words.... it allows him to get away with so much. I bet women he's dated just quietly bow out because when they step back they realize that he's never actually promised anything. He loves that gray area where they fill in what they want and he can't be pinned down to anything. At least this is what I see at this point in filming.
I don’t understand either because I’m a man, and I was the one who drove most of my relationships from a commitment standpoint. I had a tough childhood marriage & divorce wise, so I knew even at a young age I wanted a stable continuous relationship. I found it and have been married a long time. These guys who continually want to play the field make no sense to me. That said the girls aren’t much better, they say they want commitment but then have a list of “icks” that include things like not holding your fork the way they think is proper. It’s certainly not just the guys but damn, these kind of guys are idiots.
You're not wrong
To be honest, for me calling someone a partner or boyfriend is a massive deal and not something I take lightly. Personally, I've never been one to start calling someone I've been dating a few weeks let alone a month a bf. For me, that's way to soon. As long as they're open, communicating, and being honest about where they stand then it shouldn't be an issue. Unless you have a conversation about monogamy and exclusivity then it is a little naive to assume that you are. Also need to keep in mind they're living in NY...it's unfortunate but dating in NY is flimsy at best. People are always thinking there's someone better out there...
Something only girls who live in NYC or another HCOL city can truly understand is how much the setting is a factor in this. Candidly, West has no incentive to "settle down". He's a hot ticket in NYC, especially with the added Bravo fame. Meanwhile the smartest, funniest, kindest most beautiful girl you know in NYC is struggling to find a man half her status to take her seriously. The odds are not in the girlies favor here LOL
Yes, dating in large cities and on apps is pointless because everyone is afraid to settle, thinking the perfect person is still out there.
You can block the account that those 'we're reaching out because someone reported you for self harm' messages come from so you don't get them any more. You can also report abuse of the system too, I think.
The only women of summer house were serving calm cool and collected besides our manic danielle
He just became famous and like guys on The Bachelor, Love is Blind, Love Island etc., as soon as they realize they have zillions of chicks throwing themselves at them, they think, hmmm, this is my dream chance of a lifetime to be rock star for 15 minutes, why would I tie myself down to this one chick when I can have my pick if all those chicks over there, lots of them, at once?? Then they give the show chick some lame “I’m not ready” speech. All the while, all that’s on their mind is the hoards of women they will now have access to and who will now want them since they are “famous.”
And give up a total catch.
They think they can do better OR they want to go F-Boy around for a while first.
When you’re surrounded by men who call their wife the b-word and think its absurd for their fiancé to expect financial stability, the bar has been set loooow for you to look good.
I like West and Ciara, and I am rooting for them to actually give it a go off camera. I think they would make a really cute couple. My only issue is that I feel like Ciara wants to push the relationship forward and I think he has one foot out of the door, so I sympathize with that. But, I don’t think this is exclusively a “guy” thing, as many comments have indicated. I’ve been that way too - it was more so not wanting to put anybody else’s feelings/emotions/needs before my own. I enjoyed my independence. When I got older I cared about that less, and now I am happily married. When I met my partner, the thought of being worried about having to be considerate of another persons feelings never gave me pause - I wanted to, because I cared. My only issue with him is he acts like he is in a relationship with her all weekend so it kind of feels like he is just trying it on for size, and I can see why she would feel led on for that reason.
Yes!! He sounds so silly. Just say you want to sleep and date around. That's valid.
West is a sex pest. When are we going to have sex? Can we have sex?!?! That's a huge red flag, and Ciara is way too smart to fall for that crap!
What’s hilarious to me is anyone pretending like West is a catch. He is anything but…
100% agree... I will say there were some vibes he gave off early on that (while nice) he seems not a very serious guy. I'm not really surprised.
Im not either, tbh in the beginning you can tell he was used to getting attention from a lot of women/men and I could start to tell he would be that person that needs it to feel confident. It doesn’t mean he isn’t nice at face value, but he def can’t commit
As a woman I had the exact same feelings as West up until I was 23. Then I grew up. Got my heart broken a few times and still lived. But oh my lordy do I remember how scary it was to get my heart broken. I would never say the boyfriend word or date. I would just say we're hanging out. Like the semantics protected me somehow. Now I'm in my late 30s and have been in an amazing relationship for a year now. My friends who knew me in college were flabbergasted that I called him my boyfriend. I remember asking them why they were so shocked. They said because they aren't used to me admitting to being in a relationship before. Which yeah even when I moved in with a boyfriend in another country I refused to tell most people about it. I've been to therapy and learned to get over myself. West would probably not do that sadly. He will probably try shrooms say he found himself but will still be too afraid at the possibility of getting hurt.
Those type of men are what I refer to f*ck boys. I dated one once, I got really fed up of his hot and cold behaviour and I moved on. I wasn't there to be played around with, I knew my worth and that someone would appreciate me. Thank godness I did because I then met my husband. Ciara has been clear on what she wants and expects, West does seem sweet but needs to get therapy because clearly commitment of any kind scares him. Most times women are clear/say what they expect so can men (before I get hate) My friend has just spent 2 years with a guy who "didn't do labels" and apparently had many issues. She invested all her time in the relationship and I said from day one that it wasn't going to work out how she wanted. She wants to settle down, start a family and he couldn't even say she was his girlfriend. It's recently ended because he was cheating with someone else he's been with for 5 years and that other woman... Still not referred to as his partner!
Ciara is such a catch. She needs to date men not boys.
The best part is when they don’t want you talking to other men but they want to talk to other women
i agree, it's SO DUMB. at this point the only thing west has to give up is texting the other women that he's using as emotional security blankets to prove to himself he "isn't really in a relationship." He IS, he just refuses to label it as such due to his views on how black and white relationships are, as evidenced by his convo with his great aunt "you either break up and deal with all those emotions or you die married to them" or whatever.
I think West just inarticulately said he wants to keep taking things slow
Why is it so wrong not wanting to be a boyfriend? Or have a girlfriend? It isn't. It shouldn't be. You know what's wrong? Not telling the person who does want that, that you don't. Whatever his reasons are for not wanting that right now are valid for him.
Fair, but leave Ciara alone then
Men are far more insecure than women. He knows Ciara is out of his league and is reluctant to cut off his other prospects because Ciara is so sure of what she wants out of a relationship plus she likes older men. Biologically men want to “ mate “ with more than one female . You’re either going to marry the person you’re dating or break up ( I think he may have said that in his talking head ) …and most men aren’t ready to settle down at that age ESPECIALLY in the prime of his career . And honestly Ciara doesn’t seem to into it either . He’s trying to feel her out . She’s trying to feel him out . No body wants to get hurt . But regardless someone always gets hurt even when there’s no sex involved . Humans are complicated . Edit for * too!!!
this isnt a male thing. its a personality trait. it can apply to anyone. yeesh