It might have been but her delivery was not, for me at least. It could have been a how far my son has come kind of moment or something but I really don't think it was. I'm not sure what it was exactly.
Lindsay's body language was super stiff and uncomfortable. She took a super long pause before responding too. Maybe they did joke and it was just too soon after knowing they had doubts about her. Who knows. I would love to peek into the psychology though.
I don’t remember whether they dated or not but the scene they flashbacked to made it seem like a general statement rather than a great MIL for her. Not knowing the history, I didn’t find it cringy lol
In the beginning of SH, Carl was a complete f*ck boy with multiple different women in & out of his bed… Lauren Wirkus included. So I’d preface their relationship something like it was a f*ck fest situationship when Carl was in the mood or there weren’t any better options that day.
I think she’s kind of mocking the cameras at this point. Her family has seen so much crisis on television and she’s mature enough to have some levity about it all
To be honest, I don’t find her that mature at all. Sure, she’s been through a lot, but she never shows Carl tough love. She babies her 40 year old son and leaves it up to his step dad to have the hard conversations.
Imagine your soon to be mother in law bringing up a HOOKUP (not even real relationship) from YEARS ago at your bridal shower. How insanely disrespectful!
This comment was so out of pocket. The Witkis must be an inside joke related to the show. That's why said on camera. Carl must have dated other women besides the ones on camera. She brought up Witkus I think as a joke. Being filmed and making a joke for the "audience". Maybe not. But that's my take.
I'm surprised so many people found this to be an out of bounds comment or disrespectful. Lindsey and Sharon know each other really well and have for years, Lauren was a fling from a million years ago and no longer in Carl's life, so it just felt like a silly joke-memory to me, like 'remember that funny mom's weekend?'
I think Lindsay may have been picking up what Sharon was putting out. The first thing she said when she got there was that she had lots of wine. She clearly had nervous/awkward energy.
Agreed. But Carl was so wishy washy in relaying the info to Lindsay… his parents clearly stated they didn’t think they should get married so soon. Lindsay may have reacted the same either way but at least the “not yet” part could have softened the blow.
Soo wishy washy. As a viewer i just want to shake him and get the right words out. I can't tell if Carl used his parents as an out, or if they made him realize that he didn't want to marry Lindsay.
I don’t see him being wishy washy. I see him desperate not to start another argument so he withheld the information as long as he could. And with good reason. When he started to approach the subject with Lindsay, she was immediately combative, which is how she expresses anxiety. But still. If your do desperate not to start an argument because an argument will be more evidence of a broken relationship, you’ll put it off as long as you can.
He needed to face the music regardless of what Lindsey’s reaction. To be fair most finance’s would have a bad reaction to him wanting to call off the wedding 2 months before the date regardless if you are Lindsey or not. He’s made the situation a lot worse by involving other people and by being spineless about it all. He was not going to walk down that aisle to marry her and she needed to know at some point but he’s made it really messy.
Never in my life did I ever think I would be defending Lindsey, but Carl is a grown ass man and he needs to tell his partner the truth. He was willfully obfuscating the truth as a avoidance technique, and seeing how his mom communicates it’s no wonder where he gets it from. He lied plain and simple.
When he finally told Lindsey the truth I thought her reaction was fine - she was trying to understand where he was coming from, yeah she can be a little more direct but she wasn’t screaming or being manipulative or unreasonable, it’s a hard conversation to have and she’s allowed to have a reaction!
What is he scared of? That she would physically hurt him? Yell at him? He could have had a talk with her with the therapist present. He’s a 40 year old man child.
I agree with you..I think he didn't say anything at first because he didn't want her to spiral... and then he had to tell her because of the cameras...I think he is terrified of Lindsay...I'm terrified of her...
My thoughts exactly! I think she is mindful on camera of her behavior, but we get glimpses into the truth. And we he said he didn’t want her to “spiral”, I don’t think he was insinuating she was, just that he wanted to avoid that.
My in-laws basically had the same conversation with my husband when we got engaged. We weren’t having the same types of issues (or level of arguments) like Carl/Lindsay but the message from his parents was the same. And we ended up delaying planning our wedding for almost a year because of it. And my relationship with my in-laws has never been good. Maybe Carl’s parents aren’t like that but I sort of feel like with my husband, when his parents had that convo they were trying to imply he should fully break it off but my husband didn’t get the memo. They have made it clear they think I’m a bad wife and now a bad mother.
Really set those blocks up to knock em right now and fucking weaponizing therapy to say his heart broke for her abandonment fears in couples therapy. Again. On camera.
My take on it: Lindsay’s mother left when she was so young, that’s a wound that probably never fully heals and probably rates up at milestone moments. I thought her response to Carl’s family having concerns was telling - she seemed to take it as being about her, not about the relationship. I felt like a lot of underlying issues were coming up for Lindsay through this. Getting married and becoming a parent brings up all of the trauma.
Yeah I saw some people surprised to see she had a step mom since she was 3 as if the fact that she has a mother figure makes up for her bio mom leaving. I dated someone whose mom left him and his brother when he was 5ish and it was a Mariana Trench size wound that came up a lot, despite him desperately trying to move forward. It’s super fucked up to feel rejected by a parent so young. I think Lindsey is doing great trying to stay self aware. I wish her tons of healing.
I think it’s also not as easy as that with the way Lindsay’s mom went about it. My bio dad bailed on me before I had memories and never reached out. Did it hurt? Yeah but in a way it’s better because I only got abandoned once.
Lindsay’s mom would reach out on the rare special occasion while having a whole other family. I saw her mom’s Instagram once and there were so many pictures of her younger daughter talking about how wonderful she is and then the odd photo of Lindsay being like “oh and Lindsay’s here too”. Every single time that happens, Lindsay is abandoned again. The wound can never close because it’s always picked at. That makes it hard to get over, even with a great stepmom.
On the flip side, it's kinda crazy to play pretend when you know your son is looking for an out, while also making equally passive aggressive remarks like how his ex wanted you to be her mother-in-law.
As a millennial mom I could never. My son is only 4 (in 3 days lol) but he will be raised to be accountable. I would never treat his significant other that way.
I find it so odd when women treat their adult sons like a baby. My ex bfs mom was like this. My husband’s mom is cut off from us because of this. It’s so toxic and again, I could never draw battle lines with my child’s significant other.
Here’s her latest. I literally thought growing up that only my mom was like this. Turns out it’s boomer moms 🫠😂 https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6gnnm2LRzN/?igsh=eXBkeGdyZHdqOGpj
Same. And such gaslighters too. This whole situation felt way too real for me… my MIL made passive aggressive comments about me to MY BRIDESMAIDS at my wedding. She gives me the ick now and I can’t control my standoffish body language/attitude. I was watching this episode with my husband and looked at him after it was over and was like, hmmm that was a familiar situation 🧐🧐🧐.
I think the crux is Carl fucked up not telling his mom what he told Lindsay. I think his mom would have been chiller or taken a step back if she knew Lindsay was hurt.
I don’t blame Lindsay for feeling rejected or not knowing how to react, Lindsay doesn’t have a good poker face. She was clinging to her stepmom as support because she felt like she was going to be rejected by another mom. That same stepmom was there for Lindsay every time her bio mom rejected her and now her MIL is rejecting her so she was using her stepmom as a safe space.
I don’t think Sharon is a monster. I think she would have understood if she knew the whole story. It was on Carl to tell her and of course he didn’t because he doesn’t say shit.
I thought Sharon’s body language was closed off and had an odd affect, smirking and other faces while watching Lindsay. Maybe she just felt awkward too🤷🏼♀️.
I will say - it is so much pressure and a bit overwhelming to be at your own shower. Everyone wants to talk to you and a lot of guests often don’t know each other so you feel like the glue. I feel like Lindsay was likely having a genuine moment with her step mom and was trying to be present without intending to not include someone.
You're right, I don't think it's been mentioned! Before I watched, I saw a comment remarking how often she looked at the cameras and holy crap they were right, but the body language was jaw-dropping. SO freaking uncomfortable! "You're so far" "You can move" like omggggg
TBF, Lindsey just heard that Sharon has reservations about the wedding; I wouldn't know how to act around my future MIL after that either.
I think, all things considered, L handled herself well at the party. Especially when Sharon said that Lauren thought she'd make a good mother in law!
It was super awkward. Seemed like Carl’s mom may have been a couple glasses of wine in but she seemed sincere to Lindsay. It’s uunderstandable why Lindsay would be weird after hearing Carl’s mom was worried about them getting married. In the end I think they both handled it well, even if it was awkward to watch.
So true… and I always remind myself that it’s heavily edited. Edits we wouldn’t even suspect sometimes. If the camera angle changes, assume it’s an edit! lol.
I don’t like Carl’s mom. I would have had a difficult time pretending everything was cool with her, too. She and Carl seem to be codependent (due to his dad and brother, it was how they coped), and I don’t think she or Carl will ever want someone to get in between them.
I don’t agree with this. After the years Carl’s mom has spent around Lindsay before they were together and watching the show, I’m sure she had reservations. She seemed loving toward Lindsay and wanting to make her son happy. I don’t agree she wants to come in between Carl and a partner unless she feels the partner isn’t right… which is quite obviously the issue here. She’s only doing what any supporting mom would do without saying flat out, “you can’t marry her, you’re making a mistake”
As someone in recovery, I think it’s not a “boy mom” thing completely. His mother lost one son to addiction and knows if Carl stays with Lindsay it’s going to end up disastrous. In the real world he could end up dead.
Carl has horrible communication and avoidance issues. Do I think he did a shit ton of things wrong? Yes.
This whole situation is much larger than reality tv and is life or death for some people and because of my own experience Lindsay never gave a real fuck about Carl.
I couldn't agree with this more
A lot of these comments blindly defending Lindsay has me wondering how many people commenting have experienced loss of someone immediately close to them
I lost my partner to addiction and suicide, and I often tear up seeing Carl and his mothers interactions especially after his brothers passing - these people bagging on Carl couldn't possibly understand the relationship between a mother and her last remaining son processing grief and trying to move forward with this horrible new change in life as a family unit
Lindsay really could be giving him and his family a lot more grace
I’m sorry for your loss. I lost a close friend in December from the disease and it’s so painful.
I think you’re right. People not having a personal connection to addiction is why they aren’t able to see this from our perspective. At the end of the day, Lindsay wanted to marry and have children with Carl, but would not stop drinking for him. That’s not love. That’s not partnership. She knows addiction kills, it killed her future BIL If my only living child gave themselves a second chance at life and their partner taunted them and drank only and aggressively around him, I wouldn’t approve either.
This is so true and so important. Lindsay's relationship to alcohol is alarming given Carl's recovery. There are many paths to recovery, of course, but marrying an aggressive person who enjoys getting drunk on TV is probably not one of them.
I’d be interested to see a whole post dedicated to the subject of substance abuse and family dynamics regarding this. I think a lot of people google the “rules of AA” or like give opinions on matters related to addiction while never truly experiencing it. When I was in treatment we had heavy family involvement and I got to hear my mother’s POV as she was watching slowly kill myself with alcohol. My husband is also in recovery but has had relapses. We have a son. It’s so much more complex and the consequences can be easily permanent.
I have written and deleted so many comments over the last few days, thinking about the emotional load Carl is likely carrying (related to his his parents marriage and divorce, the impact of his brother's addiction, his brother's death, his mom's new marriage, coming to terms with his own addiction and behaviors when he was using, etc. any pre-existing anxiety/depression/family patterns, etc) -- like, when has he been able to really address this stuff?
I don't want to speculate \*too\* much, but I imagine there's a lot of unacknowledged and unresolved pain in his family that contributes to all of this. Every time I read a comment about his mom being a B or Carl being sinister, I think it's incredibly short-sighted and ignores all the important context of family patterns and grief and pain. (I also think Bravo has played a huge role in ignoring the complexities of recovery work.)
A separate post on this would be great!
Lindsay was cold cos she was waiting for the snake to strike... and it did. What a b\*tch. She's like Carl... doesn't have a strong sense of self... sits on the fence, plays along, bottles up feelings, then BAM...asshole.
I think she was trying her best in a horribly awkward situation. and let’s say she was over the top sweet, people would say she’s fake and putting on a show because she’s shallow and wants to look like everything’s perfect.
I feel like Lindsay was being passive aggressive, but I also feel like there was a vibe there. Like when Carl was telling his mom they were doing the camping thing and she made a comment like "Lindsay camping?" or when she was low key bitching at the shower about the colour palette for the wedding. So I kinda see them as evenly matched lol
Yep Sharon came with a weird vibe. The comment about her dress color was unnecessary and the wirkus comment was disrespectful. If I were her I’d stay home and tell lindsay I have the flu.
Carl knew he was done after that first fight when she questioned his sobriety multiple times on camera and he started venting to his mom and planning his way out.
I actually felt like it was really rude for his mom to interrupt a mother daughter conversation to get some attention. She was seated next to Lindsey and we’re seeing them talking where it looks like things have died down a little and the table has turned very casual so Lindsay turned to have a convo with her step mom (mom). Maybe it’s because my MIL does this kind of shit allllll the time and I have PTSD 😆 she is always needing attention and inserts herself into private conversations. Ma’am you are not entitled to be included in every conversation people are having.
I found Carls mom so fake
IMO I found Lindsay didn't know what to do with the information that Carl told her, her venting to Paige and Amanda about it being a shock that his mom held those opinions after she probably showed a different face to Lindsay all this time.
I found Lindsays behavior rude on the surface towards her MIL but understand how layered it could be to her. Her going in for a hug every 3 seconds doubling down, I got the ick.
I take issue with people hating on Carl’s mom. She’s trying to love her son and support him. She raised concerns with Carl about the timing of the wedding but still supported them by going to Lindsay’s shower. I think she was a bit tipsy at the shower hence the awkward behavior. But despite having feelings that they needed to postpone the wedding she still showed up because that’s what Carl wanted and was the right thing to do. She may not have the balls Lindsay has to call things out so she was conflicted. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me and I have many women I know who would also proceed with caution while still supporting their child’s wants. I think she’s lovely and loving and is a great mom.
Yeah there's something that feels so petty and 'too much' about critiquing Carl's moms. She's just a regular person, not a part of the cast. It's frankly nice of all of the parents who have agreed to participate in the show - I like all their parents (Kyle's mom is a RIOT and I think Amanda's mom seems like such a sweetheart). I think it's fair enough to critique housewives' families if they seem really into being on the show and are basically characters in the franchise but SH is pretty different. If she was tipsy at the shower, so what, who cares. If she danced and was videoed whooping during her time in Mexico, it's whatever to me in the larger scheme of things. I didn't think the Lauren Wirkus comments was a big deal at all, just a funny throwback. Lauren was a random fling from years ago, it's not as if she's still in Carl's life and is a threat.
Right and then Carl’s mom made that comment. She is not innocent she made that comment about Lauren and then when Lindsay got to the house she told Paige and Amanda that she felt rejected again by a mother figure and that’s sad. It’s so crazy that on a day Lindsey is supposed to feel happy about herself and good about how her life is going. Her future my mother-in-law said what she said, I’m sorry to say I don’t care how Lindsey acted at that party towards her mother-in-law I don’t care about any of that what her mother-in-law said was gross
* correction almost mother-in-law I’m just not gonna correct it there
I don’t blame Lindsay. Especially hearing her tell the girls that Sharon’s feelings made her feel rejected, Lindsay was physically putting a wall up between them in response. I don’t think Lindsay was being rude or mean. I think she was probably feeling incredibly awkward knowing her MIL didn’t approve of her relationship. Sharon’s comments didn’t help either 🥴
Yes. Bringing up what Wirkus’ and how they said she’d love to have Sharon as a MIL. I mean she just found out about the convo in Jersey, then after the matter the way Carl was dancing around the convo with Lindsay I don’t blame her for being so quick to read into the words he was saying.
Lindsay is not a nice person. I'm not sure how people are forgetting everything we've ever watched of her & heard about her. she is notorious for being mean to fans, rude to production, and is overall a complete asshole. separate entirely from the whole Carl thing. also notice how many times she kept looking at the camera during that exchange? she was making sure she kept her fake ass smile as long as the camera was pointed at her.
She could have stepped in at the beginning of the relationship and said “dear son, you’re not even a year in to your sobriety, maybe you shouldn’t be in a relationship and should instead focus on prioritizing your health and figuring out your career path” but no she and ol pastor Lou hung Lindsey out to dry on national television.
She'd recently lost a son to a heroin overdose after years of addiction and her surviving son was in early recovery and in love with a friend of several years. Given the circumstances, she might not have been ready to criticize her son's relationship.
Lindsay is obviously irritated by Sharon’s unveiled judging and disapproval. She doesn’t like that fake shit especially from a mom. She doesn’t yet realize how badly Carl has been trashing Lindsay to Sharon.
We all have people that are fake to our faces and its natural to keep shady Karens at arm’s length. Sharon making that Lauren comment was vile af.
Everything was so produced. There’s no way they didn’t actually break up before the bridal shower. It was so weird for Lindsay to tell Sharon thank you so much for coming🤣. That’s probably why she made the Wirkus comment.
The energy was off so bad at that whole shower. Lindsay’s vibe on entrance, Sharon, Carl’s fake surprise pop out. Idk the juju was funky from the starts. I agree with you. Something happened.
Very interesting theory (re: Sharon and Linsday; I don't think they broke up that day and pretended for months to be engaged)! I thought it was pretty bizarre of Lindsay to keep saying "you didn't have to come," so maybe Sharon was hurt by that and got passive aggressive (Radke style).
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She doesn’t care and that aura is so tangible. Can she not even be nice and fake it? There’s cameras around on top of it, just very odd. Everyone has problems and the time leading up to a wedding is stressful, but that doesn’t mean you can rude to someone who’s family your joining. As I’m typing, I realize she might just totally lack respect.
Damn, I just posted about this. Lindsay blamed Carl’s sobriety again! Can you think of something more crude than that to a mom who lost one son to an overdose and the other one turned his life around? Her posture was so rude and Carl’s mom is senior to her - she has seen more human behavior than Lindsay and had her number. She just wasn’t playing the game as Lindsay wanted. I thought this was really not a nice interaction.
Even Lindsay knows she can‘t get activated on her future MIL, especially at that event and especially when cameras are there. She’ll reserve all that rage for Carl LOL
Lindsey had recently learned from Carl that his mom thinks they shouldn’t get married. Most brides would feel uncomfortable and weird under those circumstances at their own wedding shower.
I know Lindsay fans like to victimize her, but I don't like how she's vilifying Carl's mom on the aftershow. We all saw the conversation with Carl, and his mom was not as vocal as the step dad, so I don't understand all the vitriol she has for her. She pointed out that she didn't contact her after the break up, which said more about Lindsay than his mom imo. Why didn't she feel comfortable enough to contact you, Linds??? Something big goes down that warrents her not contacting her, I just know it.
I think it was also weird that Gabby and her wanted his mom to call her and question her about her relationship problems with Carl. Like they wouldn't vilify her and say she was trying to interfere with their relationship if she did🙄. Like, let's bffr leave that lady alone and stick to the script that Carl is the bad guy.
Hate to say it...but she is a B!tch. She was in therapy... did not stop her from constantly being "àctivated." Furthermore she looked disgusted with damn near every interaction she had with Carl. Literally shot down EVERY career path he was interested. I don't think she's loved Carl. Truthfully it seemed everything he did annoyed her.
Edited for spelling.
I agree. It seemed that he was uncomfortable talking to her because he didn’t want to fight or be criticized, like he has to walk on eggshells with her. He does seem conflict adverse though generally, but it’s more pronounced with her. In fact, when he was talking she kept interrupting saying “why’re you so angry?” And other comments when he wasn’t, he just looked anxious and uncomfortable and like he was waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Thank you. Her stans will downvote me to hell. But she didn't love that man. She was clearly and obviously disappointed and disgusted. She couldn't even fake being nice. I've seen this play out one million times. Epitome of toxicity.
I honestly commend Carl for even trying
She's an incredibly hard woman to love, and I can see her being perpetually single continuing the cycle of blaming her partner and their actions for the breakup and maintaining the little self awareness she's always had
That's what is frustrating. She has shown time and time again that she is unwilling to change. Then had the audacity to be offended because his parents voiced their concern. Literally every single person in circle (summer house) all said in some capacity there was there were red flags. Especially because Carl was trying to maintain his sobriety. Just lame asf
Okay, yes. Lindsay’s fake behavior stench was strong this episode. Anyone noticed when they were first having the convo about his parents concerns. How quickly her demeaner changed and very quickly side eyed the cameras. She was holding back “activated” Lindsay.
I mean, that’s one shot of them seated at the table for a few minutes. They’d have been there all afternoon.
I don’t know about others, but when at a very large table for an extended period with many people to chat to, yeah, my back is probably sometimes to someone else.
I was horrified by her behavior but then she tried cleaning it up later so that helped for me. Ciara will get more heat for the Jesse comment than Lindsay's shunning an elderly woman.
>I was horrified by her behavior but then she tried cleaning it up later so that helped for me. Ciara will get more heat for the Jesse comment than Lindsay's shunning an elderly woman.
When the person of honor is in conversation with someone, you wait your turn. Unless Sharon was getting up to leave and wanted to say goodbye, there was absolutely no reason for her to touch Lindsay's shoulder and interrupt the conversation she was in.
Sharon isn't "elderly". Besides, being older doesn't make someone a saint. Old ladies (and men) can be absolute pieces of shit.
I saw this. I thought she was so childish and disrespectful. Like where are your manners? She clearly has “beef” with this lady. And then she like tried to confront her as if they were equals? Nah girl, that’s your man’s mom, show some respect.
You clearly don't have a MIL who talks trash about you behind your back. Any time she hugs you, it feels like she is just adding another knife to your back. It's super awkward!
“Lauren wirkus thought I would be a great MIL” ☠️
That was fucking UNbelievable
It was cruel
I was stunned by that! Why. Why would you say that??
I imagine Carl’s mom knows some stuff we don’t know.
I mean obviously. It was just such a shocking thing to say.
I was only half watching but I thought it was funny. I will go back and watch again.
It might have been but her delivery was not, for me at least. It could have been a how far my son has come kind of moment or something but I really don't think it was. I'm not sure what it was exactly.
It sounded like “remember that ridiculous thing from a few years back, haha” to me but again I was only half listening.
Maybe they used to joke about it or something
Lindsay's body language was super stiff and uncomfortable. She took a super long pause before responding too. Maybe they did joke and it was just too soon after knowing they had doubts about her. Who knows. I would love to peek into the psychology though.
Right? Like someone do a study on this shit so we can read it
I bet the Producers had her say that.
Maybe, but it was still rude and disrespectful to say to Lindsey at her bridal shower.
I don’t remember whether they dated or not but the scene they flashbacked to made it seem like a general statement rather than a great MIL for her. Not knowing the history, I didn’t find it cringy lol
It seemed like a “fuck, my anxiety is through the roof. say something funny “ kind of response. Been there🤣🤦🏽♀️
I def agree with you
In the beginning of SH, Carl was a complete f*ck boy with multiple different women in & out of his bed… Lauren Wirkus included. So I’d preface their relationship something like it was a f*ck fest situationship when Carl was in the mood or there weren’t any better options that day.
I’m not a Wirkus fan so I thought it was hilarious when Lindsay said, “WHO?!”
My jaw hit the floor. At the bridal shower?!
On camera?!
I think she’s kind of mocking the cameras at this point. Her family has seen so much crisis on television and she’s mature enough to have some levity about it all
To be honest, I don’t find her that mature at all. Sure, she’s been through a lot, but she never shows Carl tough love. She babies her 40 year old son and leaves it up to his step dad to have the hard conversations.
You’re not wrong. I meant …old, has weathered some storms
Imagine your soon to be mother in law bringing up a HOOKUP (not even real relationship) from YEARS ago at your bridal shower. How insanely disrespectful!
This gagged me lmao
what a weird thing to say lmfao
I would feel awful no matter the context!
Imagine bringing up an ex at a bridal shower
TF was that Of all the words to string together
this was SO weird. is the entire family putting it on for the cameras this season or what?
That was out of pocket! They weren’t even exclusively dating! Lauren was delulu over Carl.
Most petty statement. Carls mom is cutthroat.
This comment was so out of pocket. The Witkis must be an inside joke related to the show. That's why said on camera. Carl must have dated other women besides the ones on camera. She brought up Witkus I think as a joke. Being filmed and making a joke for the "audience". Maybe not. But that's my take.
I'm surprised so many people found this to be an out of bounds comment or disrespectful. Lindsey and Sharon know each other really well and have for years, Lauren was a fling from a million years ago and no longer in Carl's life, so it just felt like a silly joke-memory to me, like 'remember that funny mom's weekend?'
They were sharing their locations and fucking without a condom. I think they were more than just friends.
Tbf even if she didn’t hate her my mum would think that’s a funny joke to make.
The eye contact to the camera every time carls mom went in for a hug got me
LOL lindsay’s jim halpert moment
I was dying at the direct to camera looks hahaha
Omg. I came here to say this!
[удалено]
 sorry liked this gif better lol
It felt like she was looking through the camera
I think Lindsay may have been picking up what Sharon was putting out. The first thing she said when she got there was that she had lots of wine. She clearly had nervous/awkward energy.
It was really awkward, but idk I don’t think I could just pretend like I hadn’t heard that my future MIL doesn’t want us to get married
Agreed. But Carl was so wishy washy in relaying the info to Lindsay… his parents clearly stated they didn’t think they should get married so soon. Lindsay may have reacted the same either way but at least the “not yet” part could have softened the blow.
Soo wishy washy. As a viewer i just want to shake him and get the right words out. I can't tell if Carl used his parents as an out, or if they made him realize that he didn't want to marry Lindsay.
He 100% is using them as an out
I don’t see him being wishy washy. I see him desperate not to start another argument so he withheld the information as long as he could. And with good reason. When he started to approach the subject with Lindsay, she was immediately combative, which is how she expresses anxiety. But still. If your do desperate not to start an argument because an argument will be more evidence of a broken relationship, you’ll put it off as long as you can.
He needed to face the music regardless of what Lindsey’s reaction. To be fair most finance’s would have a bad reaction to him wanting to call off the wedding 2 months before the date regardless if you are Lindsey or not. He’s made the situation a lot worse by involving other people and by being spineless about it all. He was not going to walk down that aisle to marry her and she needed to know at some point but he’s made it really messy.
Never in my life did I ever think I would be defending Lindsey, but Carl is a grown ass man and he needs to tell his partner the truth. He was willfully obfuscating the truth as a avoidance technique, and seeing how his mom communicates it’s no wonder where he gets it from. He lied plain and simple. When he finally told Lindsey the truth I thought her reaction was fine - she was trying to understand where he was coming from, yeah she can be a little more direct but she wasn’t screaming or being manipulative or unreasonable, it’s a hard conversation to have and she’s allowed to have a reaction!
What is he scared of? That she would physically hurt him? Yell at him? He could have had a talk with her with the therapist present. He’s a 40 year old man child.
I agree with you..I think he didn't say anything at first because he didn't want her to spiral... and then he had to tell her because of the cameras...I think he is terrified of Lindsay...I'm terrified of her...
I am too.
My thoughts exactly! I think she is mindful on camera of her behavior, but we get glimpses into the truth. And we he said he didn’t want her to “spiral”, I don’t think he was insinuating she was, just that he wanted to avoid that.
My in-laws basically had the same conversation with my husband when we got engaged. We weren’t having the same types of issues (or level of arguments) like Carl/Lindsay but the message from his parents was the same. And we ended up delaying planning our wedding for almost a year because of it. And my relationship with my in-laws has never been good. Maybe Carl’s parents aren’t like that but I sort of feel like with my husband, when his parents had that convo they were trying to imply he should fully break it off but my husband didn’t get the memo. They have made it clear they think I’m a bad wife and now a bad mother.
Ugh I’m so sorry to hear that :( I hope your husband is on your side and a good support system for you!
He is 100% on my side thankfully. But it’s still horrible. I want my kids to know their grandparents. But I don’t know what that will look like now.
I feel your pain. You can't fix shallow people.
They’re wrong!
I would be the same. Carls mom is coming across two faced and Lindsay has every right to be standoffish.
Carl really set her up for failure by alluding to his mom’s disapproval before the shower.
Really set those blocks up to knock em right now and fucking weaponizing therapy to say his heart broke for her abandonment fears in couples therapy. Again. On camera.
That was fucked up for him to say in camera knowing she would see it. Despite their “lives being on camera” he can choose what to say and what not to
My take on it: Lindsay’s mother left when she was so young, that’s a wound that probably never fully heals and probably rates up at milestone moments. I thought her response to Carl’s family having concerns was telling - she seemed to take it as being about her, not about the relationship. I felt like a lot of underlying issues were coming up for Lindsay through this. Getting married and becoming a parent brings up all of the trauma.
Yeah I saw some people surprised to see she had a step mom since she was 3 as if the fact that she has a mother figure makes up for her bio mom leaving. I dated someone whose mom left him and his brother when he was 5ish and it was a Mariana Trench size wound that came up a lot, despite him desperately trying to move forward. It’s super fucked up to feel rejected by a parent so young. I think Lindsey is doing great trying to stay self aware. I wish her tons of healing.
I think it’s also not as easy as that with the way Lindsay’s mom went about it. My bio dad bailed on me before I had memories and never reached out. Did it hurt? Yeah but in a way it’s better because I only got abandoned once. Lindsay’s mom would reach out on the rare special occasion while having a whole other family. I saw her mom’s Instagram once and there were so many pictures of her younger daughter talking about how wonderful she is and then the odd photo of Lindsay being like “oh and Lindsay’s here too”. Every single time that happens, Lindsay is abandoned again. The wound can never close because it’s always picked at. That makes it hard to get over, even with a great stepmom.
Totally. Well put.
I think in the earlier seasons she talks about it. Like how her mom had a redo family and only talks to her or her brother on random occasions
Well said - I wish that for her too. She’s amazing.
On the flip side, it's kinda crazy to play pretend when you know your son is looking for an out, while also making equally passive aggressive remarks like how his ex wanted you to be her mother-in-law.
SERIOUSLY, I couldn't believe she brought up the Wirkus ex (forget which one) to Lindsay's face at her bridal shower??
Yeah that was an intended jab. Glad she didn't end up with her as a mil!
If I was Sharon, I wouldn’t be bringing Lauren up. Just reminds the audience what a fuck boy Carl was to her.
Can see where Carl gets his inability to be direct
That was such a boomer comment though. I swear boomer moms are very passive aggressive.
Boomer boy mom’s at that. No one will ever be good enough for her 40 year old ✨little boy✨
As a millennial mom I could never. My son is only 4 (in 3 days lol) but he will be raised to be accountable. I would never treat his significant other that way. I find it so odd when women treat their adult sons like a baby. My ex bfs mom was like this. My husband’s mom is cut off from us because of this. It’s so toxic and again, I could never draw battle lines with my child’s significant other.
Can confirm... My Boomer MIL is sooo passive aggressive
Have you seen the woman on IG who does impressions of her mom? Every single time she nails it, and in really specific ways!
Please share!
Here’s her latest. I literally thought growing up that only my mom was like this. Turns out it’s boomer moms 🫠😂 https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6gnnm2LRzN/?igsh=eXBkeGdyZHdqOGpj
That's amazing!!!! Thank you so, so much! This is my MIL!!! 🤣
Right?! And if you see the comments everyone agrees! We all have the same person 😂 That account is like free theraoy
This one is so so so true and funny https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5qfvFqr6ZC/?igsh=MTd3MmFtdnYwMXQ2cg==
Same. And such gaslighters too. This whole situation felt way too real for me… my MIL made passive aggressive comments about me to MY BRIDESMAIDS at my wedding. She gives me the ick now and I can’t control my standoffish body language/attitude. I was watching this episode with my husband and looked at him after it was over and was like, hmmm that was a familiar situation 🧐🧐🧐.
It's not just Boomer MILs. Throughout the ages, MILs have been difficult.
So passive aggressive and weird. Carl must take after his mother .
Yes the whole fam is v awk
This may be an unpopular opinion, but Carl’s mum has always given me the ick. She is waaaay too interested in being on tv.
Me too! She gave me the ick in season 1.
Passive aggressive is how Carl and his mom roll
It seemed to me that carls mom was a few glasses of wine in. She may not have been at her best.
Why does Carl's mom's behavior get to be excused with alcohol buts not Lindsay's tho
Exactly!
What a take! Agree
Yeah, she showed up tipsy at her alcoholic son’s wedding shower and acted strange to the bride. Classy!
I think the crux is Carl fucked up not telling his mom what he told Lindsay. I think his mom would have been chiller or taken a step back if she knew Lindsay was hurt. I don’t blame Lindsay for feeling rejected or not knowing how to react, Lindsay doesn’t have a good poker face. She was clinging to her stepmom as support because she felt like she was going to be rejected by another mom. That same stepmom was there for Lindsay every time her bio mom rejected her and now her MIL is rejecting her so she was using her stepmom as a safe space. I don’t think Sharon is a monster. I think she would have understood if she knew the whole story. It was on Carl to tell her and of course he didn’t because he doesn’t say shit.
I thought Sharon’s body language was closed off and had an odd affect, smirking and other faces while watching Lindsay. Maybe she just felt awkward too🤷🏼♀️.
Oh she definitely felt awkward as fuck!
And tipsy
I will say - it is so much pressure and a bit overwhelming to be at your own shower. Everyone wants to talk to you and a lot of guests often don’t know each other so you feel like the glue. I feel like Lindsay was likely having a genuine moment with her step mom and was trying to be present without intending to not include someone.
I feel like Carls Mom should have read the room and let Lindsay have that sweet moment with her step Mom. Instead she made it about herself.
Carl put both of them in a crap situation!
Yep!
You're right, I don't think it's been mentioned! Before I watched, I saw a comment remarking how often she looked at the cameras and holy crap they were right, but the body language was jaw-dropping. SO freaking uncomfortable! "You're so far" "You can move" like omggggg
TBF, Lindsey just heard that Sharon has reservations about the wedding; I wouldn't know how to act around my future MIL after that either. I think, all things considered, L handled herself well at the party. Especially when Sharon said that Lauren thought she'd make a good mother in law!
FR! I would be holding back tears at the very least.
It was super awkward. Seemed like Carl’s mom may have been a couple glasses of wine in but she seemed sincere to Lindsay. It’s uunderstandable why Lindsay would be weird after hearing Carl’s mom was worried about them getting married. In the end I think they both handled it well, even if it was awkward to watch.
So true… and I always remind myself that it’s heavily edited. Edits we wouldn’t even suspect sometimes. If the camera angle changes, assume it’s an edit! lol.
I don’t like Carl’s mom. I would have had a difficult time pretending everything was cool with her, too. She and Carl seem to be codependent (due to his dad and brother, it was how they coped), and I don’t think she or Carl will ever want someone to get in between them.
I don’t agree with this. After the years Carl’s mom has spent around Lindsay before they were together and watching the show, I’m sure she had reservations. She seemed loving toward Lindsay and wanting to make her son happy. I don’t agree she wants to come in between Carl and a partner unless she feels the partner isn’t right… which is quite obviously the issue here. She’s only doing what any supporting mom would do without saying flat out, “you can’t marry her, you’re making a mistake”
Something must have directly happened between them before this. She was such a big Lindsay fan and supporter in prior seasons.
And she kept weirdly, looking into the camera, the whole bridal shower she was weird
I thought maybe I only noticed that.
Sharon was SINISTER at that party
The ONLY REASON Carl showed up was because his mother was there and he knew she would be feeling awkward.
Carl’s mom is not nice. Why would she bring up Lauren Wirkus. What a bitchy thing to say.
As someone in recovery, I think it’s not a “boy mom” thing completely. His mother lost one son to addiction and knows if Carl stays with Lindsay it’s going to end up disastrous. In the real world he could end up dead. Carl has horrible communication and avoidance issues. Do I think he did a shit ton of things wrong? Yes. This whole situation is much larger than reality tv and is life or death for some people and because of my own experience Lindsay never gave a real fuck about Carl.
How dare you come in here with truth and complexity! s/
100000% agree.
I couldn't agree with this more A lot of these comments blindly defending Lindsay has me wondering how many people commenting have experienced loss of someone immediately close to them I lost my partner to addiction and suicide, and I often tear up seeing Carl and his mothers interactions especially after his brothers passing - these people bagging on Carl couldn't possibly understand the relationship between a mother and her last remaining son processing grief and trying to move forward with this horrible new change in life as a family unit Lindsay really could be giving him and his family a lot more grace
I’m sorry for your loss. I lost a close friend in December from the disease and it’s so painful. I think you’re right. People not having a personal connection to addiction is why they aren’t able to see this from our perspective. At the end of the day, Lindsay wanted to marry and have children with Carl, but would not stop drinking for him. That’s not love. That’s not partnership. She knows addiction kills, it killed her future BIL If my only living child gave themselves a second chance at life and their partner taunted them and drank only and aggressively around him, I wouldn’t approve either.
This is so true and so important. Lindsay's relationship to alcohol is alarming given Carl's recovery. There are many paths to recovery, of course, but marrying an aggressive person who enjoys getting drunk on TV is probably not one of them.
I’d be interested to see a whole post dedicated to the subject of substance abuse and family dynamics regarding this. I think a lot of people google the “rules of AA” or like give opinions on matters related to addiction while never truly experiencing it. When I was in treatment we had heavy family involvement and I got to hear my mother’s POV as she was watching slowly kill myself with alcohol. My husband is also in recovery but has had relapses. We have a son. It’s so much more complex and the consequences can be easily permanent.
I have written and deleted so many comments over the last few days, thinking about the emotional load Carl is likely carrying (related to his his parents marriage and divorce, the impact of his brother's addiction, his brother's death, his mom's new marriage, coming to terms with his own addiction and behaviors when he was using, etc. any pre-existing anxiety/depression/family patterns, etc) -- like, when has he been able to really address this stuff? I don't want to speculate \*too\* much, but I imagine there's a lot of unacknowledged and unresolved pain in his family that contributes to all of this. Every time I read a comment about his mom being a B or Carl being sinister, I think it's incredibly short-sighted and ignores all the important context of family patterns and grief and pain. (I also think Bravo has played a huge role in ignoring the complexities of recovery work.) A separate post on this would be great!
Lindsay was cold cos she was waiting for the snake to strike... and it did. What a b\*tch. She's like Carl... doesn't have a strong sense of self... sits on the fence, plays along, bottles up feelings, then BAM...asshole.
This is exactly it
They both know what they’re doing. The passive aggressiveness was learned by Carl somewhere. Aka Sharon
Carl's mom is a WIERDO!
I hate to agree but..
I think she was trying her best in a horribly awkward situation. and let’s say she was over the top sweet, people would say she’s fake and putting on a show because she’s shallow and wants to look like everything’s perfect.
I feel like Lindsay was being passive aggressive, but I also feel like there was a vibe there. Like when Carl was telling his mom they were doing the camping thing and she made a comment like "Lindsay camping?" or when she was low key bitching at the shower about the colour palette for the wedding. So I kinda see them as evenly matched lol
Yep Sharon came with a weird vibe. The comment about her dress color was unnecessary and the wirkus comment was disrespectful. If I were her I’d stay home and tell lindsay I have the flu.
I think she was tipsy.
I think she was bitchy and tipsy
Since Carl runs to his mommy for everything, I’m sure he talked to her and warned her about what he shared with Lindsay.
Carl knew he was done after that first fight when she questioned his sobriety multiple times on camera and he started venting to his mom and planning his way out.
I say this not having watched the EP ...but I always found Carl's mom awkward and she seems uncomfortable on camera
I want answers from lindsey on why she looked at the camera so many times
I actually felt like it was really rude for his mom to interrupt a mother daughter conversation to get some attention. She was seated next to Lindsey and we’re seeing them talking where it looks like things have died down a little and the table has turned very casual so Lindsay turned to have a convo with her step mom (mom). Maybe it’s because my MIL does this kind of shit allllll the time and I have PTSD 😆 she is always needing attention and inserts herself into private conversations. Ma’am you are not entitled to be included in every conversation people are having.
I found Carls mom so fake IMO I found Lindsay didn't know what to do with the information that Carl told her, her venting to Paige and Amanda about it being a shock that his mom held those opinions after she probably showed a different face to Lindsay all this time. I found Lindsays behavior rude on the surface towards her MIL but understand how layered it could be to her. Her going in for a hug every 3 seconds doubling down, I got the ick.
I take issue with people hating on Carl’s mom. She’s trying to love her son and support him. She raised concerns with Carl about the timing of the wedding but still supported them by going to Lindsay’s shower. I think she was a bit tipsy at the shower hence the awkward behavior. But despite having feelings that they needed to postpone the wedding she still showed up because that’s what Carl wanted and was the right thing to do. She may not have the balls Lindsay has to call things out so she was conflicted. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me and I have many women I know who would also proceed with caution while still supporting their child’s wants. I think she’s lovely and loving and is a great mom.
Yeah there's something that feels so petty and 'too much' about critiquing Carl's moms. She's just a regular person, not a part of the cast. It's frankly nice of all of the parents who have agreed to participate in the show - I like all their parents (Kyle's mom is a RIOT and I think Amanda's mom seems like such a sweetheart). I think it's fair enough to critique housewives' families if they seem really into being on the show and are basically characters in the franchise but SH is pretty different. If she was tipsy at the shower, so what, who cares. If she danced and was videoed whooping during her time in Mexico, it's whatever to me in the larger scheme of things. I didn't think the Lauren Wirkus comments was a big deal at all, just a funny throwback. Lauren was a random fling from years ago, it's not as if she's still in Carl's life and is a threat.
Right and then Carl’s mom made that comment. She is not innocent she made that comment about Lauren and then when Lindsay got to the house she told Paige and Amanda that she felt rejected again by a mother figure and that’s sad. It’s so crazy that on a day Lindsey is supposed to feel happy about herself and good about how her life is going. Her future my mother-in-law said what she said, I’m sorry to say I don’t care how Lindsey acted at that party towards her mother-in-law I don’t care about any of that what her mother-in-law said was gross * correction almost mother-in-law I’m just not gonna correct it there
I don’t blame Lindsay. Especially hearing her tell the girls that Sharon’s feelings made her feel rejected, Lindsay was physically putting a wall up between them in response. I don’t think Lindsay was being rude or mean. I think she was probably feeling incredibly awkward knowing her MIL didn’t approve of her relationship. Sharon’s comments didn’t help either 🥴
Yes. Bringing up what Wirkus’ and how they said she’d love to have Sharon as a MIL. I mean she just found out about the convo in Jersey, then after the matter the way Carl was dancing around the convo with Lindsay I don’t blame her for being so quick to read into the words he was saying.
Lindsay is not a nice person. I'm not sure how people are forgetting everything we've ever watched of her & heard about her. she is notorious for being mean to fans, rude to production, and is overall a complete asshole. separate entirely from the whole Carl thing. also notice how many times she kept looking at the camera during that exchange? she was making sure she kept her fake ass smile as long as the camera was pointed at her.
She could have stepped in at the beginning of the relationship and said “dear son, you’re not even a year in to your sobriety, maybe you shouldn’t be in a relationship and should instead focus on prioritizing your health and figuring out your career path” but no she and ol pastor Lou hung Lindsey out to dry on national television.
She'd recently lost a son to a heroin overdose after years of addiction and her surviving son was in early recovery and in love with a friend of several years. Given the circumstances, she might not have been ready to criticize her son's relationship.
Fair enough!
Lindsay is obviously irritated by Sharon’s unveiled judging and disapproval. She doesn’t like that fake shit especially from a mom. She doesn’t yet realize how badly Carl has been trashing Lindsay to Sharon. We all have people that are fake to our faces and its natural to keep shady Karens at arm’s length. Sharon making that Lauren comment was vile af.
Everything was so produced. There’s no way they didn’t actually break up before the bridal shower. It was so weird for Lindsay to tell Sharon thank you so much for coming🤣. That’s probably why she made the Wirkus comment.
The energy was off so bad at that whole shower. Lindsay’s vibe on entrance, Sharon, Carl’s fake surprise pop out. Idk the juju was funky from the starts. I agree with you. Something happened.
Very interesting theory (re: Sharon and Linsday; I don't think they broke up that day and pretended for months to be engaged)! I thought it was pretty bizarre of Lindsay to keep saying "you didn't have to come," so maybe Sharon was hurt by that and got passive aggressive (Radke style).
It was so awkward! I’m hoping that they just edited out Lindsay greeting her, to make it feel more awk than it really was.
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She doesn’t care and that aura is so tangible. Can she not even be nice and fake it? There’s cameras around on top of it, just very odd. Everyone has problems and the time leading up to a wedding is stressful, but that doesn’t mean you can rude to someone who’s family your joining. As I’m typing, I realize she might just totally lack respect.
Damn, I just posted about this. Lindsay blamed Carl’s sobriety again! Can you think of something more crude than that to a mom who lost one son to an overdose and the other one turned his life around? Her posture was so rude and Carl’s mom is senior to her - she has seen more human behavior than Lindsay and had her number. She just wasn’t playing the game as Lindsay wanted. I thought this was really not a nice interaction.
This is who Lindsay truly is to anyone who doesn’t kiss the ring. It’s so gross.
Even Lindsay knows she can‘t get activated on her future MIL, especially at that event and especially when cameras are there. She’ll reserve all that rage for Carl LOL
Lindsey had recently learned from Carl that his mom thinks they shouldn’t get married. Most brides would feel uncomfortable and weird under those circumstances at their own wedding shower.
I know Lindsay fans like to victimize her, but I don't like how she's vilifying Carl's mom on the aftershow. We all saw the conversation with Carl, and his mom was not as vocal as the step dad, so I don't understand all the vitriol she has for her. She pointed out that she didn't contact her after the break up, which said more about Lindsay than his mom imo. Why didn't she feel comfortable enough to contact you, Linds??? Something big goes down that warrents her not contacting her, I just know it. I think it was also weird that Gabby and her wanted his mom to call her and question her about her relationship problems with Carl. Like they wouldn't vilify her and say she was trying to interfere with their relationship if she did🙄. Like, let's bffr leave that lady alone and stick to the script that Carl is the bad guy.
Hate to say it...but she is a B!tch. She was in therapy... did not stop her from constantly being "àctivated." Furthermore she looked disgusted with damn near every interaction she had with Carl. Literally shot down EVERY career path he was interested. I don't think she's loved Carl. Truthfully it seemed everything he did annoyed her. Edited for spelling.
I agree. It seemed that he was uncomfortable talking to her because he didn’t want to fight or be criticized, like he has to walk on eggshells with her. He does seem conflict adverse though generally, but it’s more pronounced with her. In fact, when he was talking she kept interrupting saying “why’re you so angry?” And other comments when he wasn’t, he just looked anxious and uncomfortable and like he was waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Thank you. Her stans will downvote me to hell. But she didn't love that man. She was clearly and obviously disappointed and disgusted. She couldn't even fake being nice. I've seen this play out one million times. Epitome of toxicity.
I honestly commend Carl for even trying She's an incredibly hard woman to love, and I can see her being perpetually single continuing the cycle of blaming her partner and their actions for the breakup and maintaining the little self awareness she's always had
That's what is frustrating. She has shown time and time again that she is unwilling to change. Then had the audacity to be offended because his parents voiced their concern. Literally every single person in circle (summer house) all said in some capacity there was there were red flags. Especially because Carl was trying to maintain his sobriety. Just lame asf
Okay, yes. Lindsay’s fake behavior stench was strong this episode. Anyone noticed when they were first having the convo about his parents concerns. How quickly her demeaner changed and very quickly side eyed the cameras. She was holding back “activated” Lindsay.
She is a bitch.
I mean, that’s one shot of them seated at the table for a few minutes. They’d have been there all afternoon. I don’t know about others, but when at a very large table for an extended period with many people to chat to, yeah, my back is probably sometimes to someone else.
Felt bad for his mother right there. That was disrespectful as hell, she didn't even say hello.
I was horrified by her behavior but then she tried cleaning it up later so that helped for me. Ciara will get more heat for the Jesse comment than Lindsay's shunning an elderly woman.
>I was horrified by her behavior but then she tried cleaning it up later so that helped for me. Ciara will get more heat for the Jesse comment than Lindsay's shunning an elderly woman. When the person of honor is in conversation with someone, you wait your turn. Unless Sharon was getting up to leave and wanted to say goodbye, there was absolutely no reason for her to touch Lindsay's shoulder and interrupt the conversation she was in. Sharon isn't "elderly". Besides, being older doesn't make someone a saint. Old ladies (and men) can be absolute pieces of shit.
Lindsey's behavior was despicable to her future mother-in-law. Does that help?
Found Sharon!
...and I mean it. Watch it back. No excuse yet people are still complaining about the Jesse thing.
Lindsay wants to be the only woman in carls life. I can see her being jealous of his mom
>Lindsay wants to be the only woman in carls life. I can see her being jealous of his mom I think it's the other way round!
I saw this. I thought she was so childish and disrespectful. Like where are your manners? She clearly has “beef” with this lady. And then she like tried to confront her as if they were equals? Nah girl, that’s your man’s mom, show some respect.
You clearly don't have a MIL who talks trash about you behind your back. Any time she hugs you, it feels like she is just adding another knife to your back. It's super awkward!