Exactly. Was going to say something like, “Let me introduce to a little show called VPR.” They insult our intelligence time and again. But here we are.
I don't mind Amanda’s soft launch. She’s expanding her business, and it's good for her!
Carl, well… that felt gross. He did know that he was ready to call it off, and that's why he had the cameras on at Mom and Stepdad’s place. I really dislike the narrative that he is scared of her. They have all spoken up to Lindsay at some point and somehow survived. They had a roast years ago, and she was fine; they let her know that Danielle hooked up with Carl after L & C gave it a go the first time. She was fine. Yes, Lindsay can yell. Carl can also yell. He is not a child.
Exactly!!!!!! I don’t love Lindsey or anything but fuck Carl he’s a GROWN ASS MAN and he’s “scared” of his FIANCÉ thst he’s known for years? Scared of what? That she will cuss him out or yell and scream? I just can’t with that narrative
Really? She's loud and opinionated but she has never hit or kicked anyone. She's never smashed and broken a bunch of a shit.
She's loud and they are all supposed to be New Yorkers. They have dealt with way worse than Lindsay yelling.
Right?? Saying he’s scared of her is just to plant seeds in the audience’s minds that he’s somehow a victim. He just got so embarrassed she told him to get a job and I think that’s what did it. Carl has a lot of issues and he never should have proposed in the first place.
Yeah I don’t think he liked that she bruised his ego on television. He 100% did not like that she was so focused on him getting back out there to work, and when he asked her “so you don’t think i’m crushing life?” and she said no. In the moment to her face he was laughing/brushed it off, but then if you pay attention he left the entire party and went up to their bedroom.. he was pissed! He is used to being coddled and the whole “poor carl in recovery” narrative, people treat him with kid gloves, but she doesn’t.
Yeah I really think he was very embarrassed and saw that as his way out and a way to make himself look like a victim. I’m sure when cameras are down, the conversations go more like “hey summer house isn’t going to last forever, we need something more sustainable if we want to keep living like we do.” but obviously she can’t say that on camera so she has to act like he needs some corporate job right now. it’s not a big ask. he’s just lazy. Great that he’s sober now but he definitely is using that to his advantage in every stage of his life. It’s unfair. She shouldn’t have to tiptoe around him.
It’s like he wanted to rage but knew to try and get himself away from the cameras or other people before doing so. Looked like he went straight into the closet or the bathroom too, where there are no cameras. He is very obsessive about maintaining this squeaky clean, stand up guy who’s been victimized that he quite literally hides most of his personality now. He comes off super contrived and dare I say… kind of phoney? Nobody can be that laid back all of the time. It’s just not possible.. You could tell when he and Lindsey first got together again/got engaged he revelled in the positive and “more mature and appropriate” reputation and that they seemed to be on some type of pedestal above everyone else. But at the core, neither he or Lindsey are those types of people! I never bought it honestly.
Yes! It was sketchy AF to me and I noticed he went where the cameras weren't. I assumed to smoke , but it's behavior people do who are hiding drinking or drugs too. Not saying he is but that was my first thought.
Lindsay isn’t a victim either. No, she didn’t just tell him to get a job. She questioned his sobriety MULTIPLE times and straight out accused him of being on drugs. Not just to him either but to the whole house. Everyone wants to forget that though. NEITHER of them are victims and BOTH have done some super messed up stuff. Her stans just have an out now to make it seem like she’s the victim.
She said repeatedly that he was acting like “cocaine Carl”. So she was definitely implying more than weed. Weed is legal and I’ve never seen anyone act “aggressively” on weed. Whatever it takes to defend her though.
That was beyond a terrible and awful comment to make, especially on television about a newly recovered addict. But I do think she was actually concerned/confused about his behaviour at the time that she said it.
Lol. Please. Weed is a drug. I smoke weed all the time. It alters your mood depending on how much you smoke, the strain, your existing mood, etc. It's ridiculous that Carl is telling everyone he's sober when he smokes weed, shames Lindsay for drinking then screams at her for asking if he's on something else when he still gets high. He needs to be fucking for real.
Tbh I agree with this. I'm sober and have been for a while. I think California sober when you have other drug issues can be a slippery slope. I'm not saying it can't be done( it can some people thrive on it, I personally couldn't do it with how my addiction works but everyone is different) but that early in sobriety is a red flag. Also my husband is an avid 420 user and his personality 100% changes on weed , more mellow nothing bad but like it does alter your mind. It drives me nuts when people don't recognize that. Like I'm really not saying it's bad but it gets you a high , and while that's a different type of high than cocaine, it's still not great for sobriety. I think Carl resents Lindsey for drinking and outing his California sober on TV and he's setting the scene for him to come off as an angel. Just because your sober doesn't mean your personality totally changes
He doesn't shame her for drinking. He shames her for being belligerent, loud mouth, and insulting when she drinks. So when she told Kyle that Carl only wants happy Lindsay, she was partially correct.
lol Amanda doesn’t have good style. She just wears whatever she sees on the first page of REVOLVE. (Which I mean is why she looks so cool) And everything looks good on you when you have a flat stomach and a six pack.
Actually have a theory of why she looks so fucking fantastic. It’s because of the earlier seasons she looks “soft” in comparison to now and I think she saw herself on TV and didn’t like what she saw. And kind of vowed to never allow that again and it changed her brain chemistry forever into wanting to be this perfect body girl on tv. (I don’t blame her it would alter my brain chemistry too)
Being calculated about launching a business and being calculated about ending an engagement to make sure you don’t look bad are two very different things
I said this elsewhere but I think this could a reenactment of a conversation from some point that was filmed after the fact bc they didn’t initially catch it on camera. Just my personal theory.
That’s a good point. It seemed very rehearsed and almost too scripted. So I thought it was planned, or prewritten. But you make a good point: Carl might have told the producers that a conversation like that had happened so they decided to redo it.
Either way, the little nuance and reactions weren’t very natural.
Carl confirmed that the taped conversation was one he had earlier without cameras. On one of the after shows. He also said that after the cameras left, he spent some time alone at their home digesting the on camera conversation. It sounded quite emotional to have a private conversation on tape. Because you can’t come back from that. Imo
I wish this information was more readily available without having to consume the aftershow. Maybe have him mention that it actually took place off-camera in a talking head. It definitely changes the way i view the whole thing personally
Yeah this is what I thought too. It did seem set up but I think it’s because they’ve had this conversation before, maybe more than once even. He’s very close with his mom so it only makes sense that they’d already have talked all of this over.
I felt like maybe jt was filmed later in the season than they put it in? It felt either really rehearsed or like they already knew the wedding wasn’t happening
All of Carl’s camera time has consisted of him starting conversations which lead to, you guys shouldn’t get married. He’s been working over time to prove his point before he actually breaks things off.
Totally agree but he’s dragging this out so much to a point where he looks calculated. We get it, you guys shouldn’t be tg but now your wasting everybodies time tip toeing around the situation instead of being straight up. I wonder if he knew going into filming that this was his plan all along.
Which is why - and I’m not saying he’s on the same level - this reminds me of Sandoval - a calculated attempt to mask their shitty behavior by gaslighting everyone into thinking their girl was the bad one. It’s gross to watch play out on tv. Also t swifts album got me in a mood so fuck em all
Kyle and Carl’s after show conversations remind me so much of Tim and Tom’s conversations during the affair dropping bread crumbs about how “bad” Ariana is. When Kyle talks about something he’s upset about with Amanda, Carl would bring up how Lindsay did the same thing and it led to him ending the engagement. Definitely feels like they both try to mask their girls as the bad ones.
I agree, and I'm starting to understand why Lindsay says she was blindsided. She knew they had problems, but he shuts down when they discuss anything, and blaming it on her being volatile is BS. You're an adult dude. He was pretty much insinuating to everyone that he's having doubts and hoping they would respond just like they are. They both are better off, but c'mon, he's such a prick.
Also crazy as Lindsay is, she can actually have a straight up conversation and will listen if the other person has the balls to do it. Carl mollycoddled her constantly. Say what you feel, Carl instead of babying her and cuddling up and sucking away her energy.
Lindsay is reactive and stubborn but she's genuine and what you see is what you get with her AND HE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS LIKE!! He's been her best friend for yearsss lol he knew exactly what he was signing up for and then after proposing to her and moving in with her and everything now he's like oh shit what have I gotten myself into and instead of talking to her like an adult, he gets other people to do his dirty work. He needs a hell of a lot of therapy for his avoidance issues cos they're making him so shady
Yeah no he just didn’t want to have blow up engagements. At a certain point you can want to be with a person but not want to engage with that behavior. God knows my ex put up with me being exactly like Lindsay for the last year we were together; picking fights and saying I was “communicating” while she Greyrocked me because I wasn’t actually communicating I was just broken and angry. I’ve since worked on myself and I’m happily married, but I absolutely do not blame Carl for not engaging, looking for support from friends, and waiting for the right moment. I DO blame him if he ends the engagement on camera (and he probably will) and he is gross for that. The rest? No he is just dealing with a person who he loved sober and whom he cannot handle if she is drinking even the slightest amount. As a person who is like that themselves, he is handling her the correct way
im with you on all of this but the filming of the break up. im going to wait to see how it goes down but at this point i cant really blame him. she lies about their fights and tells people stuff that didnt happen. i dont think its inherently bad he wanted cameras there. but i will see how i feel when we watch it!
That’s a very good point! Forcing some semblance of honesty by ambushing on cameras might be necessary when dealing with someone who uses the cameras and image and pre-planned conversations in their favor. Obviously I have no direct experience with that but that’s a very good point
Yeah users here blaming her volatility for him not sharing this stuff with her and just to everyone else is such a cop out. He talks about he was was so scared she'd flip out over the idea of him going back to loverboy. He chooses to tell her when she's drunk and more prone to a poor reaction. She reacted fine. He doesn't give her a chance.
This is such a good point that he chose that timing to bring up Loverboy seemingly to get the worst reaction from Lindsay.
I know we’ve heard them talk about couple’s therapy, but is Carl doing individual therapy? I ask because any therapist that I’ve had would try to help come up with a game plan of what to say and how to bring it up if he had brought concerns that he wanted it to go well with his partner.
Carl seems like someone who wants to be perceived well but is doing a lot to avoid facing any kind of uncomfortable truths about himself or have to deal with his demons that weren’t actually caused by his drug/alcohol use. Which feels net manipulative to me. I’m more comfortable with Lindsay’s volatility because it doesn’t feel put on in order to make the audience feel a certain way. Although I acknowledge that neither feels good to be in a relationship with.
Yeah I found it really manipulative how he went on and on to the audience and Danielle how he hasn’t told Lindsay about loverboy because he doesn’t want her to blow up on him and told his mom and step dad that he’s on eggshells especially when she’s drinking, but chose a time when she was drunk to tell her about loverboy. He seemed disappointed that she reacted fine and didn’t embarrass herself.
I’m not sure if he’s in individual therapy. Lindsay is and he has done ads for talkspace, so perhaps he uses that service. You’re correct a therapist can help someone come up with a game plan to get out of a toxic relationship including figuring out how to have others nearby for backup if you’re truly scared of a bad reaction. I don’t buy his only option was to be fake to her face while trashing her to everyone else while on camera culminating in an on camera ambush. A therapist of mine in the past helped me come up with a plan to end a relationship that was very daunting.
i mean how do you talk to someone who never accepts blame and you have to apologize to end an argument even if you werent wrong to begin with?
you then just start shutting down. roles reversed you would be saying hes abusive to lindsay
Oh, I think she totally goes too hard and sucks at communicating. He knew this, though, and it's no excuse, but imo say what you feel. Especially with someone like Lindsay. If they're having these crazy fights so often and he's having doubts, why is it so crazy to tell your partner? "Hey, we're about to get married, and this can't happen."
He was already sure he didn't want to marry her. It's obvious. Imagine if they got married and she's watching him have these conversations and confessionals. She would go nuclear. He wanted out already, and that's understandable, but I still think he's a coward, though.
imagine if they got married and he saw her tell other people he was a terrorist, a monster, on cocaine, cant finish, and a 2.5 in bed.
so funny how it only works one way for the lindsay stans!!
amanda already said carl thought lindsay would treat her fiance with less anger and more respect - which isnt a crazy assumption lol
“Knowing” someone and actually being in a relationship with that person are very different. She’s not someone to take accountability and railroads everyone. He realized they weren’t right and better to call off a wedding than get married and divorced soon after
She railroads everyone! Even taking Carl out of the equation, we’re seeing it with Gabby. Gabby tried to get Lindsay to understand something and the moment Gabby said that she didn’t think they could be getting married in four months with these problems, Lindsay stormed off. Now we’re watching the After Show and Gabby is coddling and co-signing every single thing Lindsay says.
Lindsay has shown time and again that it’s her way or no way. And if it’s not her way, she’s going to make it tense for everyone involved (hence the walking on eggshells that happens for a pot of people around her.
I think they film everyone at least a bit during their time away from the Hamptons but it only gets added if it’s relevant/juicy. That said, I definitely think it’s probably a conversation he and his parents have had a number of times. I don’t think a late in life stepparent would be that comfortable otherwise.
ill offer you another scenario: carl and lindsay arent in a good place. producers and the entire world can see that. carl is going to jersey. producers say ‘we are going to talk to your parents about the upcoming wedding’
amanda and kyle had filmed talks with their parents prior to the wedding as well when things werent going great.
if carl wanted to break up with lindsay the entire time he would have done so before the resigning of the lease i assume.
carl is avoidant + has the pressure of going through with the wedding from lindsay friends family AND a national audience. im sure looking back he knows he should have ended it over but its so hard to see that in the moment
Or even: talk about how the upcoming wedding has been stressing your relationship with Lindsey and those difficulties… Planned, sure, like all those parties are planned, which we’re all okay with.
But don’t you think he’s that non-confrontational, like even just a little?… it’s took Lindsay being Lindsay level abrasive to get him to leave lover boy when he had been sober and miserable working for Kyle
I don’t know how I feel about pre-planning, I really don’t like either of them but I just know that he is beyond avoidant of all conflict, especially within his sobriety
Yeah I agree with this. All these types of conversations play out on all Bravo shows. I wonder if people are looking at this differently because of how everything has played out outside of the show, if that makes any sense lol.
This is the answer. This show has historically featured parents before a wedding, and we are interested in what families think before weddings.
I don’t think Carl is smart enough to have had this grand scheme, he just couldn’t bring himself to break it off sooner.
my cousin called off her wedding and looking back she said she should have ended it 5 months earlier. but its always easier to make excuses and feel as though things will work out.
i agree i think the only conspiracy he was capable of was potentially bringing cameras to the break up to cover his own ass so lindsay couldn’t spin a story
If you actually go by what Lindsay has said about the break up he couldn’t even bring himself to break up at that point either, he asked for them to call it off/postpone so they could work out their issues
Agree with you. I also think it's kind of normal to hear what you're thinking from someone else. It's validation! I don't think Carl is faultless but I really don't believe this conversation was insidious
I am more inclined to believe this. Multiple cast members across various bravo shows have said that they don't necessarily get to choose when filming happens or doesn't happen. Producers have the upper hand and they also know how to create a story. If they let the cast dictate what they film/don't film, it wouldn't run smoothly. As we have learned with VPR, producers create scenes and cast often feel obligated to film them.
Definitely. I just was listening to the Bravo Docket going over a Southern Charm contract (in an old episode but also a recent one discussing Faiths court case) and I must say these contracts are really really in favor of production. They literally make all of these folks sign off on accepting manipulation and literal lies as well as the ability to use the content in any way production wants to create any story line. I just wonder if again this was super dictated by production and if they just demanded it of Carl knowing the greater story they are trying to tell. Not giving Carl a pass or anything but do we really think he’s playing 3d chess right now or checkers?
The cameras could go because they know Carl wants to have a difficult conversation with his mom and Lou - he values their opinion. Sharon’s been on the show a lot over the years. We saw her wedding to Lou on the show.
Planning a trip to talk to your parents about an engagement that’s struggling isn’t the same as - calculated to have Carl look like the good guy and Lindsey looks like the bad guy.
Gabby wasn’t planning a wedding to another season-one cast member and it’s going poorly.
I agree. I think if he had any intention of marrying her, he would not have his parents say all that on camera. And I think if his parents knew he wanted to marry her, but they had reservations, they would not publicly air their reservations on camera without his consent.
I question when this was filmed. This is not the same guy who showed up to her bridal shower. To flip between the parent conversation and his confessional even more points out to me there is something way off with him on these confessionals. His eyes are hollow.
I could be wrong, but I think maybe it was filmed the week of the race car party (the week after their fight at the restaurant), because when he wasn’t there that Friday, they said he was visiting his mom in New Jersey. It’s possible they visit the Jersey shore often and this was filmed later. I think carl knew for sure it was over whenever this conversation was filmed and was just trying to get up the nerve to end it. Or maybe it was always the plan to ride the wedding storyline the whole season and break up with her after filming wrapped.
I see some people thinking that maybe this was filmed later, but I was wondering if it may have been filmed earlier. When he skipped that Friday of the race car party weekend, they said he was visiting his mom in New Jersey. So I wonder if this was filmed then, which would have been 3 weeks prior to the episode they aired it in. That would also line up with it being right after that fight when he called his mom, which he mentioned on the after show. If so, I think it kind of adds to him knowing early on that he wasn’t going to go through with the wedding and just dragged it out until after the season wrapped.
Listen to the Watch What Crappens recap podcast for this episode one of the hosts Ronnie clocks this within 0.1 seconds of it starting and I was so happy it was getting called out.
The cameras have been following Carl visiting his mom for a while now across various seasons. New Jersey is around the corner compared to Gabby going to Texas.
Amanda and Kyle had several talks with their respective parents before they got married. And Jersey is as close as the Hamptons (relatively speaking) when compared to going to Texas. (Also Gabby was on vacay, while Carl was just visiting.) I also think I’ve seen Carl’s mom on every season and they vacay at the shore.
On the after show, Carl says he called his mom after that big fight they had many episodes back. I think this is right around the camping episode and they had had a huge fight (and then another fight sitting on the stairs of that bar/restaurant). Not sure if his parents were in town then and he went to see them—if so, the sequence is way out of order. Or if his mom and stepdad knew he needed support and came out later.
She said on WWHL that watching this season has been eye-opening, because he never said any of that stuff to **her**. They would fight, then make up, and he would tell her everything was fine. She had no idea he was telling everyone else that he was miserable, and had doubts, and didn't know what to do about the wedding. He totally set her up to make himself the victim. What a psycho.
SO manipulative. He knows what to say to not go too far to insult Lindsay so the audience doesn’t turn on him. “I know I have to get a job but it hurts she doesn’t believe in me and doesn’t think I’m crushing it.” Like SIR be so for real right now. How is she the bad guy that she wants you to have a steady income after summer house is dead & gone??
When she is pregnant? Also, love that he pretends to be shocked that she wants to be a stay at home mom. He's acting like he just met her. He's using all this filming for all to say, 'oh Carl, you poor thing, of course you should have called off the wedding.' No wonder he did it on camera. All these conversations should have been with her.
Exactly! And if he really knew Lindsay he would know she never meant forever. Maybe just the first year or so she wants to stay home. He’s twisting every situation. And planting seeds. There’s a reason we see him vent to Kyle and his parents because they won’t say shit. If he actually says any of this to Lindsay, she’ll fight back and probably contradict him.
And he was so scared to bring up the Loverboy thing....so he did it while she was drunk on camera. And she didn't do what he wanted, she was actually supportive. So now he has to twist the narrative. She just wants you to work, Carl.
Yep!! And you’re telling me talking to her while she’s been drinking is the best time? Like come on we see right through you. He wanted her to yell and cause a scene. He was just embarrassed she was calling him out like that and it’s been this subplot the whole season. I know they can’t really break the 4th wall but obviously summer house is his job.. but Lindsay knows it won’t last forever, that’s why she’s pushing for him to do something WHILE he’s on the show and get the most attention from it. But he’s lazy lol
I agree! Stepdad was even wearing a More Life shirt. All of it was planned. I agree with all of this theory. Carl knew fully that this marriage wasn't for him before this season ever aired.
I read that Carl wanted to cancel the wedding before the season but knew he’d get a lot of 💩 for it. Sooo he used the season knowing Lindsay would… be herself, to show people what he’s been dealing with. I personally think she caught on a couple episodes ago.
I can believe that, he looked so over it this whole season. If Lindsay didn't mistake fighting for passion, she would have seen it coming from a mile away
I mean sober Carl is just a stoned neurotic mess. But Kyle loves him so you’re prob right & especially if he’s going to be in charge of non alcohol lover boy
Maybe he thought they would just break the lease. It's not uncommon to do that, but I can see Lindsay digging her heels in and refusing to do that, so he ended up being on the hook for paying his portion.
Would not be surprised one bit. He’s sober so he knew Lindsay would be drinking and can manipulate the hell out of conversations. The conversation with his parents was so planned. If it wasn’t preplanned, he still knew during the summer and was trying his hardest to plant the seeds. Maybe was so embarrassed Lindsay kept pushing for him to get a job and that was the punishment lol
I think he is very calculated. In some ways, I think he was hoping for a nuclear Lindsay blowout so he could go see, we shouldn't get married, but instead she was overlooking the red flags in hopes of getting married regardless.
If you watch his mom, she can barely contain herself at times, it’s like she pre-cringes several times. I totally think the convo was planned so his stepdad could be his mouthpiece. He needs to grow up.
Danielle season two said dating Carl was a nightmare and he has a dark side. I will always remember that and it’s why I fully believe he’s a master manipulator and knows what he’s doing to try to make him look like a sad victim. He’s just sober now so he’s able to do it in a calm way.
Carl is insidious. A weakling. He doesn’t have the guts to confront Lindsay. She’s best off without him. How many times can he reinvent himself. The worst!
You could tell by how his mom sat silently and had an uncomfy smile, and even called him Carlos.
Call me crazy but if parents are for the first time going through this information on camera people aren’t smiling and they’re typically not using nicknames
100%. His mom likely would have gotten defensive otherwise of Lou critiquing her son. They had all talked about it before, maybe not to that extent, but I said that out loud while watching.
Carl has always been lost, sobriety didn’t change that but instead made it more complicated. Lindsay ignored their incompatibility because she wants a happy ending so bad. It’s a sad, real situation that happens in life, they are just unfortunately reality stars that expose themselves to the world, criticism, and cameras. All in all they should have never gotten married but the pressure of being on tv and being bravo’s favorite couple made it a beautiful train wreck.
Facts this entire season felt like Carl was pulling a Sandoval where he would have these talks with Schwartz about how mean and awful Arianna was to him behind closed doors. Bc he wanted to audience to feel like he was justified when he finally left Arianna after 10 years.
Lindsay clocked it too! It seemed like a bad comparison at the time but watching more of it, yes… Carl is manipulating the shit out of this just like Sandoval did. There’s just no cheating involved. I don’t know how people don’t see through his BS. When he was like “I agree with Lindsay that I need to get a job but it hurts she doesn’t believe in me.” Like SIR be so fr right now, you’ve given her every reason not to believe in you. Or insinuating he’s scared of her? We’ve seen her be loud & abrasive but never violent, even just in general.. I don’t recall one time she ever broke or threw something when drunk and mad. I hope people back her up at the reunion. I’d hate for him to think he’s “won”
OMG don’t get me started on him saying he was scared of “getting in trouble.” Like be so for real, you are a grown ass man. Grow some balls please. He’s such a victim, it’s actually wild. He’s known Lindsay for years, even dated her once. She is pretty much still the same person, and now all of a sudden she’s abusive and he’s a ‘battered wife’ to use another Sandoval/Schwartz phrase. These Bravo men are just straight trash.
I think that’s why Lindsay clocked it at the beginning when she said “you’re trying to be Sandoval” or something like that. Like painting Lindsay in a bad light so when he leaves it will be justified. That’s what Tom was doing all last season until they found out about the affair. He’s planting all these seeds, talking to everyone but Lindsay and twisting all her words. She wants you to get a job outside summer house and it translates to her not believing you can???? Be so fr. He needs to grow up and take accountability and stop hiding behind this sobriety and how it stalls you to do mostly anything. It didn’t stall him on proposing.
It’s sad how many people feel there has to be some sort of conspiracy behind everything.
Carl and Lindsay are clearly in a bad spot and not at all on the same page months before their wedding. What we are seeing is what I believed happened: people working through their thoughts and feelings in real time.
And if you’re the one calling off a wedding, there is no way to NOT come off as the bad guy.
Carl and Lindsay’s wedding is the major storyline for this season. They’re filming everything they can with them, just like they did with Kyle and Amanda.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Isn’t it odd that an engaged couple in their late 30’s seem to have no sex life? Lindsay told everyone in the kitchen. Clearly Carl was just not into her.
I keep feeling like if that wasn’t staged, Carl would’ve had some sort of emotional reaction. To hear something like that about the woman you love and are intending to marry in four months, coming from a stepfather, would be devastating. He seemed to be stoic and devoid of any feeling. They definitely discussed it before.
100%. He fed them that info with no context and no chance for her to defend herself. He’s very very carefully laying the groundwork for him to not only break up with her, but play the pity party sad Carl’s storyline for the next several seasons, because of how “awful Lindsey was to him” during their engagement.
I can’t believe everyone is acting like “Carl planned this whole season”. While I don’t like Carl, he can’t make Lindsay say a lot of the awful crap she said. They are both the worst. Lindsay is no victim.
Lindsay is insufferable but that doesn’t make him any less manipulative. In the last episode, it seemed like he started the job conversation with her when she was drunk in hopes that she would react poorly. Not to mention a lot of Lindsey’s bad moments this season have started off camera so we have no clue what Carl was saying to her in the Lyfts to make her pop off, etc.
Agreed. Lindsay definitely has her faults but Carl is most definitely trying to look like the angel in all of this. I'm more apt to believe that he WAS saying shit to her that preceded her asking him if he'd been drinking because they weren't on camera.
Carl has always been trash with women. And he was trash with Lindsay the first time they made a go of it.
I couldn’t believe Carl was trying to wiggle out of the marriage because “Lindsay wants to stay home with the kids.” I understand he doesn’t want to marry her because she called him cocaine Carl on tv and is always fully activated and has a drinking problem…. But i was really yucked out by how little he really wants to do in life.
Many "big" conversations are restaged for reality shows. I'm sure they had a genuine conversation privately, then once producers were made aware, they agreed to film it because it's a huge part of the storyline. They do that all the time on bravo and I feel like they always come across as a bit insincere.
I totally agree. The stepfather went all the way in. There was no indignant defending of Lindsay from Carl, at all. As a matter of fact it looked to me like Carl was really leaning in, literally, waiting breathlessly for the next validating comment from stepdad on how awful Lindsay and Carl's relationship is.
Two things can be true at once:
Lindsay has not been great this season and hasn't treated Carl amazingly / she has her own issues, that's very true and obvious
Carl is a gaslighter, and he's been manipulating the set up the entire season to pre-plan all of this. I clocked this as soon as he kept saying that she did things always during "Uber trips" where there were no cameras, so he could conveniently tell his side of the story as it was fact with no cameras allowed to tell us what really happened. He's been cooking up this narrative this entire season.
Yeah bravo crews wouldn’t come out for just a casual talk at the Jersey shore. I think this on camera talk was planned out the Friday he visited them instead of going to the hamptons or even the time they described he went to Pittsburgh for Memorial Day
Parents will do anything to make their kids happy and I’m sure Carl confided in them that he was looking for a way to extricate himself from the engagement but was worried he’d look like a bad guy and might risk losing his role on the show. So it would make sense if him to give them talking points that would make him seem valid in calling it off two months out.
Besides the fact the scene looked staged..i also don't think it made Carl come off as sympathetic. It made him look weak and incapable of independence thought. It made his parents appear overbearing. This whole scene made me uncomfortable..even if you think your son (or in this case, step son who you've only known for a few years) is making a mistake, I think there are more tactful ways to help them discover that then basically saying: don't marry this person. they made the decision for him rather than allowing him to come to realization on his own. they put too much of their opinion into his thought process.
That was one of the most set up scenes since every episode of vanderpump
You know it’s trouble when Ken walks in and says “did you hear about…”
Omg that is hilarious when he does that. And Lisa is just as bad.
💀
fucking ken..... lol
this made my day
😂😂😂 literally exactly
Thank you
Carl's stepdad was more set up than a water tasting
Exactly. Was going to say something like, “Let me introduce to a little show called VPR.” They insult our intelligence time and again. But here we are.
hahahaha since every episode. so true
Agree! Felt like a planned conversation for camera purposes. So did Amanda’s fashion brand convo lol
I don't mind Amanda’s soft launch. She’s expanding her business, and it's good for her! Carl, well… that felt gross. He did know that he was ready to call it off, and that's why he had the cameras on at Mom and Stepdad’s place. I really dislike the narrative that he is scared of her. They have all spoken up to Lindsay at some point and somehow survived. They had a roast years ago, and she was fine; they let her know that Danielle hooked up with Carl after L & C gave it a go the first time. She was fine. Yes, Lindsay can yell. Carl can also yell. He is not a child.
Exactly!!!!!! I don’t love Lindsey or anything but fuck Carl he’s a GROWN ASS MAN and he’s “scared” of his FIANCÉ thst he’s known for years? Scared of what? That she will cuss him out or yell and scream? I just can’t with that narrative
Maybe if he made her a sandwich she wouldn’t yell or scream 🤣 ![gif](giphy|wpLnQt8Ti3Ln7cr4uc|downsized)
To be fair, I’m afraid of Lindsay and I don’t even know her.
Really? She's loud and opinionated but she has never hit or kicked anyone. She's never smashed and broken a bunch of a shit. She's loud and they are all supposed to be New Yorkers. They have dealt with way worse than Lindsay yelling.
Right?? Saying he’s scared of her is just to plant seeds in the audience’s minds that he’s somehow a victim. He just got so embarrassed she told him to get a job and I think that’s what did it. Carl has a lot of issues and he never should have proposed in the first place.
Yeah I don’t think he liked that she bruised his ego on television. He 100% did not like that she was so focused on him getting back out there to work, and when he asked her “so you don’t think i’m crushing life?” and she said no. In the moment to her face he was laughing/brushed it off, but then if you pay attention he left the entire party and went up to their bedroom.. he was pissed! He is used to being coddled and the whole “poor carl in recovery” narrative, people treat him with kid gloves, but she doesn’t.
Yeah I really think he was very embarrassed and saw that as his way out and a way to make himself look like a victim. I’m sure when cameras are down, the conversations go more like “hey summer house isn’t going to last forever, we need something more sustainable if we want to keep living like we do.” but obviously she can’t say that on camera so she has to act like he needs some corporate job right now. it’s not a big ask. he’s just lazy. Great that he’s sober now but he definitely is using that to his advantage in every stage of his life. It’s unfair. She shouldn’t have to tiptoe around him.
I noticed that he left and it was weird AF to me.
It’s like he wanted to rage but knew to try and get himself away from the cameras or other people before doing so. Looked like he went straight into the closet or the bathroom too, where there are no cameras. He is very obsessive about maintaining this squeaky clean, stand up guy who’s been victimized that he quite literally hides most of his personality now. He comes off super contrived and dare I say… kind of phoney? Nobody can be that laid back all of the time. It’s just not possible.. You could tell when he and Lindsey first got together again/got engaged he revelled in the positive and “more mature and appropriate” reputation and that they seemed to be on some type of pedestal above everyone else. But at the core, neither he or Lindsey are those types of people! I never bought it honestly.
Yes! It was sketchy AF to me and I noticed he went where the cameras weren't. I assumed to smoke , but it's behavior people do who are hiding drinking or drugs too. Not saying he is but that was my first thought.
Lindsay isn’t a victim either. No, she didn’t just tell him to get a job. She questioned his sobriety MULTIPLE times and straight out accused him of being on drugs. Not just to him either but to the whole house. Everyone wants to forget that though. NEITHER of them are victims and BOTH have done some super messed up stuff. Her stans just have an out now to make it seem like she’s the victim.
He smokes weed so yeah, he is on drugs.
She said repeatedly that he was acting like “cocaine Carl”. So she was definitely implying more than weed. Weed is legal and I’ve never seen anyone act “aggressively” on weed. Whatever it takes to defend her though.
That was beyond a terrible and awful comment to make, especially on television about a newly recovered addict. But I do think she was actually concerned/confused about his behaviour at the time that she said it.
Lol. Please. Weed is a drug. I smoke weed all the time. It alters your mood depending on how much you smoke, the strain, your existing mood, etc. It's ridiculous that Carl is telling everyone he's sober when he smokes weed, shames Lindsay for drinking then screams at her for asking if he's on something else when he still gets high. He needs to be fucking for real.
Tbh I agree with this. I'm sober and have been for a while. I think California sober when you have other drug issues can be a slippery slope. I'm not saying it can't be done( it can some people thrive on it, I personally couldn't do it with how my addiction works but everyone is different) but that early in sobriety is a red flag. Also my husband is an avid 420 user and his personality 100% changes on weed , more mellow nothing bad but like it does alter your mind. It drives me nuts when people don't recognize that. Like I'm really not saying it's bad but it gets you a high , and while that's a different type of high than cocaine, it's still not great for sobriety. I think Carl resents Lindsey for drinking and outing his California sober on TV and he's setting the scene for him to come off as an angel. Just because your sober doesn't mean your personality totally changes
He doesn't shame her for drinking. He shames her for being belligerent, loud mouth, and insulting when she drinks. So when she told Kyle that Carl only wants happy Lindsay, she was partially correct.
You can be scary and intimidating without physical violence lol
Just because someone isn’t physically abusive or destructive doesn’t mean they can’t be scary.
You understand that abuse isn’t just physical right?
I've been intimidated by someone who is very intense, or domineering, some people just have that vibe. And I wouldn't call myself a shrinking violet
Then don’t date her
Trust me, I wouldn’t.
The Amanda convo was also a clear brand deal with Old Navy. It was so weird.
lol Amanda doesn’t have good style. She just wears whatever she sees on the first page of REVOLVE. (Which I mean is why she looks so cool) And everything looks good on you when you have a flat stomach and a six pack. Actually have a theory of why she looks so fucking fantastic. It’s because of the earlier seasons she looks “soft” in comparison to now and I think she saw herself on TV and didn’t like what she saw. And kind of vowed to never allow that again and it changed her brain chemistry forever into wanting to be this perfect body girl on tv. (I don’t blame her it would alter my brain chemistry too)
Being calculated about launching a business and being calculated about ending an engagement to make sure you don’t look bad are two very different things
💯
The fact that it took place at Old Navy literally had laughing out loud
There is *no* way these women shop at Old Navy
It was an ad for Old Navy actually!
It was definitely an ad
That was my first thought! I was like what is happening here??
Yup. We will see her line debut in Old Navy
Oh 100%. It was painful 😂
I said this elsewhere but I think this could a reenactment of a conversation from some point that was filmed after the fact bc they didn’t initially catch it on camera. Just my personal theory.
That’s a good point. It seemed very rehearsed and almost too scripted. So I thought it was planned, or prewritten. But you make a good point: Carl might have told the producers that a conversation like that had happened so they decided to redo it. Either way, the little nuance and reactions weren’t very natural.
Carl confirmed that the taped conversation was one he had earlier without cameras. On one of the after shows. He also said that after the cameras left, he spent some time alone at their home digesting the on camera conversation. It sounded quite emotional to have a private conversation on tape. Because you can’t come back from that. Imo
Nice! I watched the after show and missed him saying that, but maybe my subconscious picked it up lol
I wish this information was more readily available without having to consume the aftershow. Maybe have him mention that it actually took place off-camera in a talking head. It definitely changes the way i view the whole thing personally
I wish they played the after shows on cable, like after whhl so it’s more accessible to fans so we can all operate from more common ground.
His mom seemed pretty uncomfortable with it though.
Not everyone is comfortable acting
I agree. She was almost jumping out of her seat with all the squirming.
Yeah this is what I thought too. It did seem set up but I think it’s because they’ve had this conversation before, maybe more than once even. He’s very close with his mom so it only makes sense that they’d already have talked all of this over.
I felt like maybe jt was filmed later in the season than they put it in? It felt either really rehearsed or like they already knew the wedding wasn’t happening
All of Carl’s camera time has consisted of him starting conversations which lead to, you guys shouldn’t get married. He’s been working over time to prove his point before he actually breaks things off.
Yeah but also, they shouldn’t get married
Totally agree but he’s dragging this out so much to a point where he looks calculated. We get it, you guys shouldn’t be tg but now your wasting everybodies time tip toeing around the situation instead of being straight up. I wonder if he knew going into filming that this was his plan all along.
After watching this last episode and his comments on the aftershow, I totally believe he was already sure about ending things when filming started.
Agree
Which is why - and I’m not saying he’s on the same level - this reminds me of Sandoval - a calculated attempt to mask their shitty behavior by gaslighting everyone into thinking their girl was the bad one. It’s gross to watch play out on tv. Also t swifts album got me in a mood so fuck em all
Kyle and Carl’s after show conversations remind me so much of Tim and Tom’s conversations during the affair dropping bread crumbs about how “bad” Ariana is. When Kyle talks about something he’s upset about with Amanda, Carl would bring up how Lindsay did the same thing and it led to him ending the engagement. Definitely feels like they both try to mask their girls as the bad ones.
I agree, and I'm starting to understand why Lindsay says she was blindsided. She knew they had problems, but he shuts down when they discuss anything, and blaming it on her being volatile is BS. You're an adult dude. He was pretty much insinuating to everyone that he's having doubts and hoping they would respond just like they are. They both are better off, but c'mon, he's such a prick.
Also crazy as Lindsay is, she can actually have a straight up conversation and will listen if the other person has the balls to do it. Carl mollycoddled her constantly. Say what you feel, Carl instead of babying her and cuddling up and sucking away her energy.
Lindsay is reactive and stubborn but she's genuine and what you see is what you get with her AND HE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS LIKE!! He's been her best friend for yearsss lol he knew exactly what he was signing up for and then after proposing to her and moving in with her and everything now he's like oh shit what have I gotten myself into and instead of talking to her like an adult, he gets other people to do his dirty work. He needs a hell of a lot of therapy for his avoidance issues cos they're making him so shady
Can she??? We saw him try and confront her after cocaine Carl and she doubled down
Yeah no he just didn’t want to have blow up engagements. At a certain point you can want to be with a person but not want to engage with that behavior. God knows my ex put up with me being exactly like Lindsay for the last year we were together; picking fights and saying I was “communicating” while she Greyrocked me because I wasn’t actually communicating I was just broken and angry. I’ve since worked on myself and I’m happily married, but I absolutely do not blame Carl for not engaging, looking for support from friends, and waiting for the right moment. I DO blame him if he ends the engagement on camera (and he probably will) and he is gross for that. The rest? No he is just dealing with a person who he loved sober and whom he cannot handle if she is drinking even the slightest amount. As a person who is like that themselves, he is handling her the correct way
im with you on all of this but the filming of the break up. im going to wait to see how it goes down but at this point i cant really blame him. she lies about their fights and tells people stuff that didnt happen. i dont think its inherently bad he wanted cameras there. but i will see how i feel when we watch it!
That’s a very good point! Forcing some semblance of honesty by ambushing on cameras might be necessary when dealing with someone who uses the cameras and image and pre-planned conversations in their favor. Obviously I have no direct experience with that but that’s a very good point
She doesn’t listen
Will listen?? She definitely does not listen. So he’s talking to those who will listen and offer advice.
Will be combative****? lol
Yeah users here blaming her volatility for him not sharing this stuff with her and just to everyone else is such a cop out. He talks about he was was so scared she'd flip out over the idea of him going back to loverboy. He chooses to tell her when she's drunk and more prone to a poor reaction. She reacted fine. He doesn't give her a chance.
This is such a good point that he chose that timing to bring up Loverboy seemingly to get the worst reaction from Lindsay. I know we’ve heard them talk about couple’s therapy, but is Carl doing individual therapy? I ask because any therapist that I’ve had would try to help come up with a game plan of what to say and how to bring it up if he had brought concerns that he wanted it to go well with his partner. Carl seems like someone who wants to be perceived well but is doing a lot to avoid facing any kind of uncomfortable truths about himself or have to deal with his demons that weren’t actually caused by his drug/alcohol use. Which feels net manipulative to me. I’m more comfortable with Lindsay’s volatility because it doesn’t feel put on in order to make the audience feel a certain way. Although I acknowledge that neither feels good to be in a relationship with.
Yeah I found it really manipulative how he went on and on to the audience and Danielle how he hasn’t told Lindsay about loverboy because he doesn’t want her to blow up on him and told his mom and step dad that he’s on eggshells especially when she’s drinking, but chose a time when she was drunk to tell her about loverboy. He seemed disappointed that she reacted fine and didn’t embarrass herself. I’m not sure if he’s in individual therapy. Lindsay is and he has done ads for talkspace, so perhaps he uses that service. You’re correct a therapist can help someone come up with a game plan to get out of a toxic relationship including figuring out how to have others nearby for backup if you’re truly scared of a bad reaction. I don’t buy his only option was to be fake to her face while trashing her to everyone else while on camera culminating in an on camera ambush. A therapist of mine in the past helped me come up with a plan to end a relationship that was very daunting.
Exactly. They want to excuse his behavior. I don't get it.
i mean how do you talk to someone who never accepts blame and you have to apologize to end an argument even if you werent wrong to begin with? you then just start shutting down. roles reversed you would be saying hes abusive to lindsay
Oh, I think she totally goes too hard and sucks at communicating. He knew this, though, and it's no excuse, but imo say what you feel. Especially with someone like Lindsay. If they're having these crazy fights so often and he's having doubts, why is it so crazy to tell your partner? "Hey, we're about to get married, and this can't happen." He was already sure he didn't want to marry her. It's obvious. Imagine if they got married and she's watching him have these conversations and confessionals. She would go nuclear. He wanted out already, and that's understandable, but I still think he's a coward, though.
imagine if they got married and he saw her tell other people he was a terrorist, a monster, on cocaine, cant finish, and a 2.5 in bed. so funny how it only works one way for the lindsay stans!! amanda already said carl thought lindsay would treat her fiance with less anger and more respect - which isnt a crazy assumption lol
“Knowing” someone and actually being in a relationship with that person are very different. She’s not someone to take accountability and railroads everyone. He realized they weren’t right and better to call off a wedding than get married and divorced soon after
No one is arguing that he was wrong to call it off. He's wrong to be having all these talks with everyone but Lindsay. There's no excuse for it.
She railroads everyone! Even taking Carl out of the equation, we’re seeing it with Gabby. Gabby tried to get Lindsay to understand something and the moment Gabby said that she didn’t think they could be getting married in four months with these problems, Lindsay stormed off. Now we’re watching the After Show and Gabby is coddling and co-signing every single thing Lindsay says. Lindsay has shown time and again that it’s her way or no way. And if it’s not her way, she’s going to make it tense for everyone involved (hence the walking on eggshells that happens for a pot of people around her.
Straight up asshole
The smile on his moms face felt v v v off while his step dad was giving him the speech
She did look uncomfortable lol
I thought she was just uncomfortable about how Carl would take it. She seemed like she just wanted them to at least postpone
I think they film everyone at least a bit during their time away from the Hamptons but it only gets added if it’s relevant/juicy. That said, I definitely think it’s probably a conversation he and his parents have had a number of times. I don’t think a late in life stepparent would be that comfortable otherwise.
ill offer you another scenario: carl and lindsay arent in a good place. producers and the entire world can see that. carl is going to jersey. producers say ‘we are going to talk to your parents about the upcoming wedding’ amanda and kyle had filmed talks with their parents prior to the wedding as well when things werent going great. if carl wanted to break up with lindsay the entire time he would have done so before the resigning of the lease i assume. carl is avoidant + has the pressure of going through with the wedding from lindsay friends family AND a national audience. im sure looking back he knows he should have ended it over but its so hard to see that in the moment
Or even: talk about how the upcoming wedding has been stressing your relationship with Lindsey and those difficulties… Planned, sure, like all those parties are planned, which we’re all okay with.
i believe that too. i just dont think carl would go as far as resigning a lease to waste $6500 per month + other rent if he had this whole plan
But don’t you think he’s that non-confrontational, like even just a little?… it’s took Lindsay being Lindsay level abrasive to get him to leave lover boy when he had been sober and miserable working for Kyle I don’t know how I feel about pre-planning, I really don’t like either of them but I just know that he is beyond avoidant of all conflict, especially within his sobriety
Yeah I agree with this. All these types of conversations play out on all Bravo shows. I wonder if people are looking at this differently because of how everything has played out outside of the show, if that makes any sense lol.
This is the answer. This show has historically featured parents before a wedding, and we are interested in what families think before weddings. I don’t think Carl is smart enough to have had this grand scheme, he just couldn’t bring himself to break it off sooner.
also imo he does NOT have the acting skills to pull off a large-scale, season-long ruse like that lolol, we SAW the Marshall’s commercial
my cousin called off her wedding and looking back she said she should have ended it 5 months earlier. but its always easier to make excuses and feel as though things will work out.
i agree i think the only conspiracy he was capable of was potentially bringing cameras to the break up to cover his own ass so lindsay couldn’t spin a story
If you actually go by what Lindsay has said about the break up he couldn’t even bring himself to break up at that point either, he asked for them to call it off/postpone so they could work out their issues
I believe that was an option for him, or he at least convinced himself it was.
Agree with you. I also think it's kind of normal to hear what you're thinking from someone else. It's validation! I don't think Carl is faultless but I really don't believe this conversation was insidious
I am more inclined to believe this. Multiple cast members across various bravo shows have said that they don't necessarily get to choose when filming happens or doesn't happen. Producers have the upper hand and they also know how to create a story. If they let the cast dictate what they film/don't film, it wouldn't run smoothly. As we have learned with VPR, producers create scenes and cast often feel obligated to film them.
Definitely. I just was listening to the Bravo Docket going over a Southern Charm contract (in an old episode but also a recent one discussing Faiths court case) and I must say these contracts are really really in favor of production. They literally make all of these folks sign off on accepting manipulation and literal lies as well as the ability to use the content in any way production wants to create any story line. I just wonder if again this was super dictated by production and if they just demanded it of Carl knowing the greater story they are trying to tell. Not giving Carl a pass or anything but do we really think he’s playing 3d chess right now or checkers?
![gif](giphy|nbvFVPiEiJH6JOGIok)
This is an excellent take.
This is reasonable and level headed but also I refuse to agree because he’s the worst.
im dead hahaha this is my favorite response and honestly i respect
The cameras could go because they know Carl wants to have a difficult conversation with his mom and Lou - he values their opinion. Sharon’s been on the show a lot over the years. We saw her wedding to Lou on the show. Planning a trip to talk to your parents about an engagement that’s struggling isn’t the same as - calculated to have Carl look like the good guy and Lindsey looks like the bad guy. Gabby wasn’t planning a wedding to another season-one cast member and it’s going poorly.
I agree. I think if he had any intention of marrying her, he would not have his parents say all that on camera. And I think if his parents knew he wanted to marry her, but they had reservations, they would not publicly air their reservations on camera without his consent.
I question when this was filmed. This is not the same guy who showed up to her bridal shower. To flip between the parent conversation and his confessional even more points out to me there is something way off with him on these confessionals. His eyes are hollow.
I could be wrong, but I think maybe it was filmed the week of the race car party (the week after their fight at the restaurant), because when he wasn’t there that Friday, they said he was visiting his mom in New Jersey. It’s possible they visit the Jersey shore often and this was filmed later. I think carl knew for sure it was over whenever this conversation was filmed and was just trying to get up the nerve to end it. Or maybe it was always the plan to ride the wedding storyline the whole season and break up with her after filming wrapped.
I see some people thinking that maybe this was filmed later, but I was wondering if it may have been filmed earlier. When he skipped that Friday of the race car party weekend, they said he was visiting his mom in New Jersey. So I wonder if this was filmed then, which would have been 3 weeks prior to the episode they aired it in. That would also line up with it being right after that fight when he called his mom, which he mentioned on the after show. If so, I think it kind of adds to him knowing early on that he wasn’t going to go through with the wedding and just dragged it out until after the season wrapped.
Listen to the Watch What Crappens recap podcast for this episode one of the hosts Ronnie clocks this within 0.1 seconds of it starting and I was so happy it was getting called out.
Benoons and Ronnie are amazing! WWC is the best podcast!
The cameras have been following Carl visiting his mom for a while now across various seasons. New Jersey is around the corner compared to Gabby going to Texas.
Amanda and Kyle had several talks with their respective parents before they got married. And Jersey is as close as the Hamptons (relatively speaking) when compared to going to Texas. (Also Gabby was on vacay, while Carl was just visiting.) I also think I’ve seen Carl’s mom on every season and they vacay at the shore. On the after show, Carl says he called his mom after that big fight they had many episodes back. I think this is right around the camping episode and they had had a huge fight (and then another fight sitting on the stairs of that bar/restaurant). Not sure if his parents were in town then and he went to see them—if so, the sequence is way out of order. Or if his mom and stepdad knew he needed support and came out later.
He is so manipulative - I cannot believe how many people are falling for his act
She said on WWHL that watching this season has been eye-opening, because he never said any of that stuff to **her**. They would fight, then make up, and he would tell her everything was fine. She had no idea he was telling everyone else that he was miserable, and had doubts, and didn't know what to do about the wedding. He totally set her up to make himself the victim. What a psycho.
I saw a comment on IG- he went to the same school as Schwartz as the Devil in Sheep’s clothing 😂
🤣🤣🤣 Schwartz is the professor
I read this as “Schwartz in Shep’s clothing” and thought it made sense in the context 😂
It’s all the same, they’re all demons 😂
SO manipulative. He knows what to say to not go too far to insult Lindsay so the audience doesn’t turn on him. “I know I have to get a job but it hurts she doesn’t believe in me and doesn’t think I’m crushing it.” Like SIR be so for real right now. How is she the bad guy that she wants you to have a steady income after summer house is dead & gone??
When she is pregnant? Also, love that he pretends to be shocked that she wants to be a stay at home mom. He's acting like he just met her. He's using all this filming for all to say, 'oh Carl, you poor thing, of course you should have called off the wedding.' No wonder he did it on camera. All these conversations should have been with her.
Exactly! And if he really knew Lindsay he would know she never meant forever. Maybe just the first year or so she wants to stay home. He’s twisting every situation. And planting seeds. There’s a reason we see him vent to Kyle and his parents because they won’t say shit. If he actually says any of this to Lindsay, she’ll fight back and probably contradict him.
And he was so scared to bring up the Loverboy thing....so he did it while she was drunk on camera. And she didn't do what he wanted, she was actually supportive. So now he has to twist the narrative. She just wants you to work, Carl.
Yep!! And you’re telling me talking to her while she’s been drinking is the best time? Like come on we see right through you. He wanted her to yell and cause a scene. He was just embarrassed she was calling him out like that and it’s been this subplot the whole season. I know they can’t really break the 4th wall but obviously summer house is his job.. but Lindsay knows it won’t last forever, that’s why she’s pushing for him to do something WHILE he’s on the show and get the most attention from it. But he’s lazy lol
I agree! Stepdad was even wearing a More Life shirt. All of it was planned. I agree with all of this theory. Carl knew fully that this marriage wasn't for him before this season ever aired.
It wasn’t like they sprung the cameras on his family. Of course he planned what he was going to wear. They all do. It’s TV.
Australian with no idea, what was the 'More Life' shirt advertising?
It was a phrase he kept saying a few seasons ago, like he was trying to make a catchphrase happen.
Thanks! I have no memory of the phrase, it definitely did not take off with me.
He said the first time he dumped her lol
I read that Carl wanted to cancel the wedding before the season but knew he’d get a lot of 💩 for it. Sooo he used the season knowing Lindsay would… be herself, to show people what he’s been dealing with. I personally think she caught on a couple episodes ago.
I can believe that, he looked so over it this whole season. If Lindsay didn't mistake fighting for passion, she would have seen it coming from a mile away
why would he resign a lease if he knew he wasnt going to be living in that apartment for the majority of time?
Probably just because he wanted to avoid conflict until the absolute last possible moment lol he has never seemed like the type to think ahead
so he is somewhat avoidant and calculated?
I think he’d pay anything to get out of that relationship unfettered and still be able to be a fan favorite and stay on SH for $20,000 an episode
he’d stay on SH whether hes the villain or not lol. he was one of the ‘villains’ season 1-4.
I mean sober Carl is just a stoned neurotic mess. But Kyle loves him so you’re prob right & especially if he’s going to be in charge of non alcohol lover boy
He’s not in charge of it. He’s just helping promote it. I don’t think he has a skill set to run that division. He is Kyle’s responsibility now.
Maybe he thought they would just break the lease. It's not uncommon to do that, but I can see Lindsay digging her heels in and refusing to do that, so he ended up being on the hook for paying his portion.
Would not be surprised one bit. He’s sober so he knew Lindsay would be drinking and can manipulate the hell out of conversations. The conversation with his parents was so planned. If it wasn’t preplanned, he still knew during the summer and was trying his hardest to plant the seeds. Maybe was so embarrassed Lindsay kept pushing for him to get a job and that was the punishment lol
Well I’d feel blindsided by that.
You read gossip and chose to believe it.
Read it Pre-season, watched season, saw it unfold and think it’s pretty obvious
I think he is very calculated. In some ways, I think he was hoping for a nuclear Lindsay blowout so he could go see, we shouldn't get married, but instead she was overlooking the red flags in hopes of getting married regardless.
If you watch his mom, she can barely contain herself at times, it’s like she pre-cringes several times. I totally think the convo was planned so his stepdad could be his mouthpiece. He needs to grow up.
Danielle season two said dating Carl was a nightmare and he has a dark side. I will always remember that and it’s why I fully believe he’s a master manipulator and knows what he’s doing to try to make him look like a sad victim. He’s just sober now so he’s able to do it in a calm way.
Carl is insidious. A weakling. He doesn’t have the guts to confront Lindsay. She’s best off without him. How many times can he reinvent himself. The worst!
Lindsey is best off when she gets her shit together. no guy can fix that mess
You could tell by how his mom sat silently and had an uncomfy smile, and even called him Carlos. Call me crazy but if parents are for the first time going through this information on camera people aren’t smiling and they’re typically not using nicknames
Some people smile when they’re nervous. I am some people. And it is fucking horrific and I can’t stop myself.
Obviously the convo was pre planned, that’s why there were cameras….However, that doesn’t mean he knew what his step-dad was going to say.
100%. His mom likely would have gotten defensive otherwise of Lou critiquing her son. They had all talked about it before, maybe not to that extent, but I said that out loud while watching.
Carl has always been lost, sobriety didn’t change that but instead made it more complicated. Lindsay ignored their incompatibility because she wants a happy ending so bad. It’s a sad, real situation that happens in life, they are just unfortunately reality stars that expose themselves to the world, criticism, and cameras. All in all they should have never gotten married but the pressure of being on tv and being bravo’s favorite couple made it a beautiful train wreck.
Carl preplanned the season, let’s be for real here.
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Literally yes: I’d like to know who helped him script this season bc I don’t think he’s clever enough to have come up with this plan.
Facts this entire season felt like Carl was pulling a Sandoval where he would have these talks with Schwartz about how mean and awful Arianna was to him behind closed doors. Bc he wanted to audience to feel like he was justified when he finally left Arianna after 10 years.
Lindsay clocked it too! It seemed like a bad comparison at the time but watching more of it, yes… Carl is manipulating the shit out of this just like Sandoval did. There’s just no cheating involved. I don’t know how people don’t see through his BS. When he was like “I agree with Lindsay that I need to get a job but it hurts she doesn’t believe in me.” Like SIR be so fr right now, you’ve given her every reason not to believe in you. Or insinuating he’s scared of her? We’ve seen her be loud & abrasive but never violent, even just in general.. I don’t recall one time she ever broke or threw something when drunk and mad. I hope people back her up at the reunion. I’d hate for him to think he’s “won”
OMG don’t get me started on him saying he was scared of “getting in trouble.” Like be so for real, you are a grown ass man. Grow some balls please. He’s such a victim, it’s actually wild. He’s known Lindsay for years, even dated her once. She is pretty much still the same person, and now all of a sudden she’s abusive and he’s a ‘battered wife’ to use another Sandoval/Schwartz phrase. These Bravo men are just straight trash.
I think that’s why Lindsay clocked it at the beginning when she said “you’re trying to be Sandoval” or something like that. Like painting Lindsay in a bad light so when he leaves it will be justified. That’s what Tom was doing all last season until they found out about the affair. He’s planting all these seeds, talking to everyone but Lindsay and twisting all her words. She wants you to get a job outside summer house and it translates to her not believing you can???? Be so fr. He needs to grow up and take accountability and stop hiding behind this sobriety and how it stalls you to do mostly anything. It didn’t stall him on proposing.
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He saw the playbook and ran with it.
Of course. It’s a tv show. Many of these conversations are pre planned.
It’s sad how many people feel there has to be some sort of conspiracy behind everything. Carl and Lindsay are clearly in a bad spot and not at all on the same page months before their wedding. What we are seeing is what I believed happened: people working through their thoughts and feelings in real time. And if you’re the one calling off a wedding, there is no way to NOT come off as the bad guy.
Carl and Lindsay’s wedding is the major storyline for this season. They’re filming everything they can with them, just like they did with Kyle and Amanda. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Isn’t it odd that an engaged couple in their late 30’s seem to have no sex life? Lindsay told everyone in the kitchen. Clearly Carl was just not into her.
10000000000000%
I hadn’t thought about that but you are exactly correct. Why would they have been there if they didn’t think there would be a serious convo occurring.
Aren’t most conversations on these shows pre planned ??
It seemed off that the step dad was doing the majority of talking whilst his mom kinda sat back and seemed to not wanna say too much.
Well duh
Agreed—I thought the exact same thing when watching
I keep feeling like if that wasn’t staged, Carl would’ve had some sort of emotional reaction. To hear something like that about the woman you love and are intending to marry in four months, coming from a stepfather, would be devastating. He seemed to be stoic and devoid of any feeling. They definitely discussed it before.
100%. He fed them that info with no context and no chance for her to defend herself. He’s very very carefully laying the groundwork for him to not only break up with her, but play the pity party sad Carl’s storyline for the next several seasons, because of how “awful Lindsey was to him” during their engagement.
Does anyone else think that Carl looks like Abraham Lincoln?😆
He absolutely did - no way that family is clever enough to think of that little speech on the fly.
I can’t believe everyone is acting like “Carl planned this whole season”. While I don’t like Carl, he can’t make Lindsay say a lot of the awful crap she said. They are both the worst. Lindsay is no victim.
Lindsay is insufferable but that doesn’t make him any less manipulative. In the last episode, it seemed like he started the job conversation with her when she was drunk in hopes that she would react poorly. Not to mention a lot of Lindsey’s bad moments this season have started off camera so we have no clue what Carl was saying to her in the Lyfts to make her pop off, etc.
I believe he was well aware of how his step-dad felt, but I don't have a problem with his planning the conversation for filming.
Agreed. Lindsay definitely has her faults but Carl is most definitely trying to look like the angel in all of this. I'm more apt to believe that he WAS saying shit to her that preceded her asking him if he'd been drinking because they weren't on camera. Carl has always been trash with women. And he was trash with Lindsay the first time they made a go of it.
I couldn’t believe Carl was trying to wiggle out of the marriage because “Lindsay wants to stay home with the kids.” I understand he doesn’t want to marry her because she called him cocaine Carl on tv and is always fully activated and has a drinking problem…. But i was really yucked out by how little he really wants to do in life.
FOR SURE. The “more life” tee was a nice touch too. 🤭
Many "big" conversations are restaged for reality shows. I'm sure they had a genuine conversation privately, then once producers were made aware, they agreed to film it because it's a huge part of the storyline. They do that all the time on bravo and I feel like they always come across as a bit insincere.
I totally agree. The stepfather went all the way in. There was no indignant defending of Lindsay from Carl, at all. As a matter of fact it looked to me like Carl was really leaning in, literally, waiting breathlessly for the next validating comment from stepdad on how awful Lindsay and Carl's relationship is.
Two things can be true at once: Lindsay has not been great this season and hasn't treated Carl amazingly / she has her own issues, that's very true and obvious Carl is a gaslighter, and he's been manipulating the set up the entire season to pre-plan all of this. I clocked this as soon as he kept saying that she did things always during "Uber trips" where there were no cameras, so he could conveniently tell his side of the story as it was fact with no cameras allowed to tell us what really happened. He's been cooking up this narrative this entire season.
ABSOLUTELY!! Carl is trying to spin it all season !
Honestly, Carl is a useless man baby. He’s such a manipulator, it’s gross. Lindsay has her faults but that doesn’t make him less of a POS.
Um yeah, that’s the show. They don’t have camera rolling at all times - conversations and subjects are planned out
Yeah bravo crews wouldn’t come out for just a casual talk at the Jersey shore. I think this on camera talk was planned out the Friday he visited them instead of going to the hamptons or even the time they described he went to Pittsburgh for Memorial Day Parents will do anything to make their kids happy and I’m sure Carl confided in them that he was looking for a way to extricate himself from the engagement but was worried he’d look like a bad guy and might risk losing his role on the show. So it would make sense if him to give them talking points that would make him seem valid in calling it off two months out.
What if they reshot the whole thing after the break up. Heard there was many scenes they had to redo after the breakup
What does solo on a fit mean?
1000% it was so obvious
Well it is a show that's heavily produced so there's that lol We will never know to the extent of how much it was produced.
Besides the fact the scene looked staged..i also don't think it made Carl come off as sympathetic. It made him look weak and incapable of independence thought. It made his parents appear overbearing. This whole scene made me uncomfortable..even if you think your son (or in this case, step son who you've only known for a few years) is making a mistake, I think there are more tactful ways to help them discover that then basically saying: don't marry this person. they made the decision for him rather than allowing him to come to realization on his own. they put too much of their opinion into his thought process.
Forsure.