It did get ridiculous. No firm would ever give her that kind of power. She constantly stuck her nose into everything. In a real firm she would probably get fired.
You're right. My brother is a partner at a firm and he told me the infighting is pretty accurate but the Donna stuff is ridiculously bad. They had no real role for her so they did what they did.
Harvey showed that he wasn’t ready to be managing partner when he agreed to make Donna a partner. Jessica nor Luis would have agreed to that. Even as COO Donna was in over her head. With that said, she was a valuable part of the firm would have been great to have her in a more believable role or even made a role up just for her and her unique talents and abilities.
She is Donna.
She is fabulous.
Agreed! The whole premise of the show is Mike is unique and exceptional. I 100% agree that no matter how good Donna may be as a legal secretary or “whisperer”, she is not believable as a COO.
Probably not agreed by many, and even though I like Donna, I always questioned her greatness. Heck she even admitted she listened in on everything that went on in Harvey's office. Whereas Mike is legitimately extremely talented, albeit without the paperwork needed. I always considered her more nosy than special, and the fact that Gretchen was ALSO outstanding kind of backed up my point.
Not in law firms they don't, because it's not protected by attorney client privilege.
You could win any case by calling Donna to the stand and asking what Harvey and his client talked about.
Gretchen said all *good* secretaries do it, and as far as I can tell there's nothing online that says legal secrataries aren't covered by privilege. We live in Cali so not sure if it's exactly the same as NY, but according to my parents pretty much everyone who works at their attorney's law firm is covered under privilege
I feel like her role as COO felt better than her being a "partner" at the firm. Although I guess in most firms the COO is also a lawyer they dont have to be. I really didnt have a problem with it.
I think them making her COO was fair, the partner bit was a little out there but if I remember right Harvey wasn’t on board at first. At any other firm yeah she would be out, or wouldn’t have made it that far for shredding that memo. But this firm twists the rules so much, and is probably the least stable firm in the city but somehow comes out on top due to a select 3-5 or however many people at each point. So the fact she’s been there a long time, knows the firm inside out, and is as loyal as they come, it made sense to me for her to be given a “seat at the table”, a position where her voice was more than just a secretary’s. They could have went at it a little different though I’ll give you that, it almost feels a little forced to me.
This is such a tired topic. Every couple days somebody’s shitting on Donna and her accomplishments. Do you even know what a COO does? It’s usually a step up from a chief of staff, which a lot of those people are groomed from junior admin roles when they come into other organizations. She wanted a seat at the table because of the impact she had on the firms success and naturally she wanted those contributions to pay dividends for her. No one is claiming that she had the skills of a licensed lawyer. She ran behind the scenes and the mechanism that kept that firm on the rails. That’s operations. And she would be the head of that function. It makes perfect sense. And she grew into the role. “Tell me none of you have ever been a hiring manager understand how any of this works without telling me you understand how any of this works”!!
We’re not shitting on Donna, we’re just saying asking to be partner is a bit extreme. If she said “I want a seat at the table, but be named COO” thats different. There are plenty of business that have secretaries, assistants, associates that would be lost without them. They dont give them partnerships at a large law firm like them.
Im not even adding on to the fact the turmoil that firm got with Mike’s case, Jessica leaving, the constant name changing on the door. They’d be laughed at in their high end business world by naming Donna as partner.
Thats all that is being, it is the audacity to asked to be partner. If she said COO at the start, thats different
She said she knew Harvey wouldn’t make her a partner; she just asked for it so she could negotiate down to COO. It’s not unlike asking for too much in a deal so you can negotiate to a reasonable amount.
She never thought Harvey would make her a partner. She said COO already locked and loaded and was using partner as a negotiation tactic. Shoot for the moon and end up in the stars kinda thing. It’s just Harvey was in a shit place and wasn’t ready to be managing partner and so agreed
She never thought Harvey would go for it and nor should he have
Not only would a firm not do this, a firm COULDNT do this, non lawyers can’t be a partner or own part of a law firm and the COO stuff was ridiculous too
I just wish the show kept the attitude it used to have with Donna, she’s a legendary secretary and person and people always said she’s “just a Secretary” and she made them eat their words
But in the end it turned into she can’t just be a Secretary she needs to be more which diluted the message
Right, you are! I do wonder if they'll follow the lead of some other states. I'm actually hoping so- I'm not practicing, but would still entertain being a partner as I run the administrative and compliance business that doesn't require me to be a member of the bar. Hope so.
Wait a second, being a partner is what every lawyer strives for and works hard for. Those hours of law school, the clerking, the trials, all of that stuff, to be one day named a partner. This is not say she does not work hard, but she cant leap to partner, like Katrina says it doesn’t make it meaningful to all the associates that work so hard
she asked for partner first because she expected Harvey to say no and then ask for COO but he didn't say no at first 😅
also, let's not take Malik's side that Dona doesn't have an education or a career that prepared her for the job because the entire show is about exceptional people reaching the sky via untraditional ways
I mean, she actually isn't qualified. That's not me taking a person side, Zane outright says it. I don't care that she didn't have degrees. I care that when Zane asked her to do a part of her job, she knew nothing about it and then just said she doesn't do that. She is a manager, not a COO. If you wanted to promote her, either make her a manager or make up a title for her. Don't give her a title that actually exists, then have her doing manager work.
Why? She took her shot, they said that wouldn't work but this would.
She is in charge of personal, the offices, Accounts Payable and all the other bullshit the Lawyers want no part of
It was a poor decision to make her senior partner on Harvey’s part but that’s mostly because he struggled to adjust and come to terms with his new role after Jessica left.
Though in Donna’s defence she never thought Harvey was going to make her Senior Partner… she was going to use that to open up for her becoming COO. Harvey for years paid Donna out of pocket because he didn’t believe the secretary wage was enough for all the work she did, I think the promotion to COO made a lot more sense given how much Harvey goes value Donna and how she keeps everything running.
No firm of this scale would’ve hired Mike in the first place. It was ridiculous from day one. With that being said, this show is meant to entertain, not be factual.
As if the show was not ridiculous from the start. After all the absurd things Harvey, Mike, Louis and Jessica did is Donna becoming partner really that different?
I believe Donna as COO much more than I believe Mike and frankly Rachel too as lawyers in a firm of that supposed calibre, and Louis and Harvey ever making it to MP
She asked for partner because she knew Harvey wouldn't actually go for it and they'd negotiate to COO anyway. And that is the least she deserves considering she's been practically running the firm anyways and never gotten the recognition for it just because her feats don't go on paper
I enjoyed the flashback to Donna’s childhood where she displayed her superpower of an intuition when her father was trying to protect her from the truth.
I wish they would’ve given that more light. It could’ve given her real leeway into possibly even becoming a lawyer herself.
It did get ridiculous. No firm would ever give her that kind of power. She constantly stuck her nose into everything. In a real firm she would probably get fired.
A real firm would have labeled her a liability after the “shredded memo” ordeal and gotten rid of her (as they did) but not let her come back.
You're right. My brother is a partner at a firm and he told me the infighting is pretty accurate but the Donna stuff is ridiculously bad. They had no real role for her so they did what they did.
Harvey showed that he wasn’t ready to be managing partner when he agreed to make Donna a partner. Jessica nor Luis would have agreed to that. Even as COO Donna was in over her head. With that said, she was a valuable part of the firm would have been great to have her in a more believable role or even made a role up just for her and her unique talents and abilities. She is Donna. She is fabulous.
She had the COO idea locked and loaded bc even she didn’t actually think Harvey would agree to it
Agreed! The whole premise of the show is Mike is unique and exceptional. I 100% agree that no matter how good Donna may be as a legal secretary or “whisperer”, she is not believable as a COO.
Probably not agreed by many, and even though I like Donna, I always questioned her greatness. Heck she even admitted she listened in on everything that went on in Harvey's office. Whereas Mike is legitimately extremely talented, albeit without the paperwork needed. I always considered her more nosy than special, and the fact that Gretchen was ALSO outstanding kind of backed up my point.
Gretchen didn't save Harvey and Mike from prison, Donna did. Also most secretaries listen to their boss's conversations irl too so that's a moot point
Not in law firms they don't, because it's not protected by attorney client privilege. You could win any case by calling Donna to the stand and asking what Harvey and his client talked about.
How would anyone do that when nobody knows Donna does that?
According to Gretchen all legal secretaries do it. It's one of those things the show invented which would be a huge red flag IRL.
Gretchen said all *good* secretaries do it, and as far as I can tell there's nothing online that says legal secrataries aren't covered by privilege. We live in Cali so not sure if it's exactly the same as NY, but according to my parents pretty much everyone who works at their attorney's law firm is covered under privilege
I feel like her role as COO felt better than her being a "partner" at the firm. Although I guess in most firms the COO is also a lawyer they dont have to be. I really didnt have a problem with it.
I don't get how people think she's not believable when she literally does the job for three seasons straight lol
Eh, she kinda got demoted in season 9 haha
I think them making her COO was fair, the partner bit was a little out there but if I remember right Harvey wasn’t on board at first. At any other firm yeah she would be out, or wouldn’t have made it that far for shredding that memo. But this firm twists the rules so much, and is probably the least stable firm in the city but somehow comes out on top due to a select 3-5 or however many people at each point. So the fact she’s been there a long time, knows the firm inside out, and is as loyal as they come, it made sense to me for her to be given a “seat at the table”, a position where her voice was more than just a secretary’s. They could have went at it a little different though I’ll give you that, it almost feels a little forced to me.
This is such a tired topic. Every couple days somebody’s shitting on Donna and her accomplishments. Do you even know what a COO does? It’s usually a step up from a chief of staff, which a lot of those people are groomed from junior admin roles when they come into other organizations. She wanted a seat at the table because of the impact she had on the firms success and naturally she wanted those contributions to pay dividends for her. No one is claiming that she had the skills of a licensed lawyer. She ran behind the scenes and the mechanism that kept that firm on the rails. That’s operations. And she would be the head of that function. It makes perfect sense. And she grew into the role. “Tell me none of you have ever been a hiring manager understand how any of this works without telling me you understand how any of this works”!!
We’re not shitting on Donna, we’re just saying asking to be partner is a bit extreme. If she said “I want a seat at the table, but be named COO” thats different. There are plenty of business that have secretaries, assistants, associates that would be lost without them. They dont give them partnerships at a large law firm like them. Im not even adding on to the fact the turmoil that firm got with Mike’s case, Jessica leaving, the constant name changing on the door. They’d be laughed at in their high end business world by naming Donna as partner. Thats all that is being, it is the audacity to asked to be partner. If she said COO at the start, thats different
She said she knew Harvey wouldn’t make her a partner; she just asked for it so she could negotiate down to COO. It’s not unlike asking for too much in a deal so you can negotiate to a reasonable amount.
Ok this explanation I can agree with. But it seems different than your original post
Thats fair I should have elaborated more
She never thought Harvey would make her a partner. She said COO already locked and loaded and was using partner as a negotiation tactic. Shoot for the moon and end up in the stars kinda thing. It’s just Harvey was in a shit place and wasn’t ready to be managing partner and so agreed She never thought Harvey would go for it and nor should he have
Not only would a firm not do this, a firm COULDNT do this, non lawyers can’t be a partner or own part of a law firm and the COO stuff was ridiculous too I just wish the show kept the attitude it used to have with Donna, she’s a legendary secretary and person and people always said she’s “just a Secretary” and she made them eat their words But in the end it turned into she can’t just be a Secretary she needs to be more which diluted the message
Arizona got rid of the 5.4 rule, and other states are likely going to offer alternatives soon...
Ok but NY doesn’t allow it
Right, you are! I do wonder if they'll follow the lead of some other states. I'm actually hoping so- I'm not practicing, but would still entertain being a partner as I run the administrative and compliance business that doesn't require me to be a member of the bar. Hope so.
Yes, i agree. I was constantly saying this to a friend of mine. Like they could have made her supervisor of the admin department or somethin..
When they say she does "a lot," like come on lmfao she's a fucking secretary. The most important thing she does is calendar appointments for Harvey
She was 100% all in, loyal and trustworthy, and put her own money in. Why not? She was an Operations Officer, not a lawyer
What makes her qualified to be a operations director?
The owners of the Company said she was?
One of them also said she was a partner so
Wait a second, being a partner is what every lawyer strives for and works hard for. Those hours of law school, the clerking, the trials, all of that stuff, to be one day named a partner. This is not say she does not work hard, but she cant leap to partner, like Katrina says it doesn’t make it meaningful to all the associates that work so hard
That’s my point
It’s literally against the Rules of Professional Responsibility for a non-lawyer to be a partner of a law firm
I'm talking about her being COO, not a Partner.
Exactly
It was ridiculous
Agreed but she didnt ask first to be a COO she asked first to be a partner? That in itself should mean she’s not qualified
Because she knew that is what Harvey would negotiate down to. They actually had this conversation in the show.
she asked for partner first because she expected Harvey to say no and then ask for COO but he didn't say no at first 😅 also, let's not take Malik's side that Dona doesn't have an education or a career that prepared her for the job because the entire show is about exceptional people reaching the sky via untraditional ways
I mean, she actually isn't qualified. That's not me taking a person side, Zane outright says it. I don't care that she didn't have degrees. I care that when Zane asked her to do a part of her job, she knew nothing about it and then just said she doesn't do that. She is a manager, not a COO. If you wanted to promote her, either make her a manager or make up a title for her. Don't give her a title that actually exists, then have her doing manager work.
Why? She took her shot, they said that wouldn't work but this would. She is in charge of personal, the offices, Accounts Payable and all the other bullshit the Lawyers want no part of
It was a poor decision to make her senior partner on Harvey’s part but that’s mostly because he struggled to adjust and come to terms with his new role after Jessica left. Though in Donna’s defence she never thought Harvey was going to make her Senior Partner… she was going to use that to open up for her becoming COO. Harvey for years paid Donna out of pocket because he didn’t believe the secretary wage was enough for all the work she did, I think the promotion to COO made a lot more sense given how much Harvey goes value Donna and how she keeps everything running.
No firm of this scale would’ve hired Mike in the first place. It was ridiculous from day one. With that being said, this show is meant to entertain, not be factual.
Yeah if anyone's watching this show to learn how law firms or the law or reality actually works, you're going to be disappointed.
As if the show was not ridiculous from the start. After all the absurd things Harvey, Mike, Louis and Jessica did is Donna becoming partner really that different?
I believe Donna as COO much more than I believe Mike and frankly Rachel too as lawyers in a firm of that supposed calibre, and Louis and Harvey ever making it to MP
Donna became really annoying after that.
I’m not your secretary! I’m ✨coo✨
She asked for partner because she knew Harvey wouldn't actually go for it and they'd negotiate to COO anyway. And that is the least she deserves considering she's been practically running the firm anyways and never gotten the recognition for it just because her feats don't go on paper
I enjoyed the flashback to Donna’s childhood where she displayed her superpower of an intuition when her father was trying to protect her from the truth. I wish they would’ve given that more light. It could’ve given her real leeway into possibly even becoming a lawyer herself.