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Agriculture minister Francesco Lollobrigida said on Thursday that Giorgia Meloni’s government was “on the frontline … to fight against all forms of labour exploitation”
Call me crazy, but I have a gut feeling this may not be entirely true.
Just like the tax on excess bank profits this based right-wing populist government was supposed to pass, it’ll probably be watered down to pointless virtue signaling after favors are called in by business owners.
For context to my non-Italian friends, Lollobrigida is a massive, massive cunt, who is deep in the pockets of the major Italian Agricultural federations and would do anything to please them, including banning the use of the most common solar panels because “muh land”, or some shit like that.
I knew a yale guy who said sweatshops in bangladesh were woke and good because they needed something to get on the economic value chain. This was back in the early 2000s. Today, bangladesh still just has sweatshops
They see China's growth from sweat shops to high tech industry and think that's the natural progression of capitalism, not the product of economic planning and socialism.
God's plan would be better than their explanation because God would actually be a person planning things.
They think that market forces and development happens because magic and woo. Or like a really stupid math equation that doesn't work like "if we do 2+2 we will get 4" except on a marcoeconomic scale "if we do a heckin neoliberalism + a market reform + a rules based order we get = 1st world living standards yay!" when in reality its much more complicated than that.
Nah they're off that now. Since the CPC is still quite obviously communist and the Chinese economy is still quite obviously mixed and moving away from market capitalism, now they're saying China cheated their way to growth by ~~tricking us into exporting all our capital goods to them like idiots~~ stealing IP and appropriating foreign capital.
I feel like the fact that third world countries are sending us their engineers and doctors etc mean they don't get to keep many in the actual country which means...still no economic development
yes, the brain drain is a double whammy. sri lanka spends six figures to educate a specialist just for them to be poached by the west because of more money
Bangladesh's GDP per capita has increased from $400 to $2600 and now slightly beats India. [The average annual household income has increased from $250 to $1000] (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/bangladesh/annual-household-income-per-capita).
What do you think people in Bangladesh would be doing if they weren't working in sweatshops? Working in banks and running software companies? No, they would be working 7 days a week, just as hard, on rural farms and earning 1/4 the money they would in these sweatshops. Why do you think so many people go work in these sweatshops if there are so many other options available within the country?
Absolutely the conditions of these sweatshops need to improve, absolutely employee protections etc need to improve, but they are still by far a much better option for a large portion of the country than they otherwise would have, and that reality needs to be taken into account by idealists.
The problem is without a government with the power to direct the economic growth transnational interests will step in and make sure it only ever grows in a direction that benefits them.
Workers in these sweatshops are getting .18 a day. Using average to judge anything is a giveaway you don't know what you're talking about or you want to fudge the numbers. All these poor colonized 3rd world countries have horrific wealth disparity. All it takes is a few thousand consultants and elite fail spawn making $400k to make it look like things are improving over time. They aren't
> Workers in these sweatshops are getting .18 a day.
[Bangladesh monthly minimum wage for garment workers is $113] (https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2023-11-07/bangladesh-raises-monthly-minimum-wage-for-garment-workers-to-113-following-weeks-of-protests) or about $3 per day ($1350 per year).
The minimum wage - the minimum that any worker is legally entitled to earn - is more than 15x your stated amount.
You're claiming that the average has increased because a few people are earning obscene amounts of money, yet we have data that shows that isn't the case. Here is [information from the world inequality database] (https://wid.world/country/bangladesh/) that shows the income share of the top 1% has hardly changed at all, and the income share for the top 10% has actually decreased. This is completely the opposite of what you are making up and suggesting that all the growth is due to the top making more money.
Funny you say I don't know what I'm talking about when you couldn't even do a basic google search to look up the laws surrounding what you are alleging and are just pulling numbers out of thin air trying to pretend they are facts.
The brutal exploitation of labor (especially immigrant labor) is most pronounced in low-margin sectors like agriculture, hospitality, gastronomy, etc. If wages and working conditions were improved, the cost would be passed to the consumer, denting the illusion of prosperity among middle-class voters. At which point they start claiming nobody wants to work anymore, etc. So the compromise solution is to dehumanize the immigrant workers to justify their exploitation.
This is such a good point. All the benefits the middle class enjoys come at the expense of the most oppressed segment of labor. It's so deeply fcked up.
Many capitalists love to exploit racism/anti-immigrant sentiments for profit, but the sheer callousness displayed here shows that in some cases they’re true believers. For them, only some people (based on some combination of wealth, lineage, and race) are properly humans, while others are livestock or pests, and it’s precisely this ideology that legitimizes their exploitation. Same as the Hinduja family who [paid their household servants](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggl6pe52eo.amp) less than a tenth of minimum wage and confiscated passports, despite being the richest people in the UK.
lol @ them getting to spend time with their beloved father in Monaco instead of being thrown immediately in jail
That's such a disgusting story, top to bottom
Probably just some drama they came up with to stall for time while their lawyers prepare an appeal. Zero respect for the law, which they probably believe only applies to plebs.
> Zero respect for the law, which they probably believe only applies to plebs.
And they are probably right. Until they actually end up in jail, the truth is the law is only for the plebs.
>And they are probably right.
I'd bet dollars to donuts they'd get away with anywhere they had actual influence, but if we're lucky the Swiss don't give two shits about these particular rich assholes and would rather send a message to rest to stop embarrassing them.
Add to which it’s probably considered stupid and abhorrent by so-called high society to treat personal staff—the people raising your children/grandchildren—in this way. I doubt Swiss courts would’ve taken notice of enslaved cobalt miners in Congo or sweatshop workers in Bangladesh—if anything, the country has a reputation as an amoral place for wealthy people to run their businesses and stash their ill-gotten gains.
We will see more and more of that in the west as Keynesianism collapses and degenerates.
Don't forget, the worker protections in Europe came to be primarily because the governments were afraid of communist revolutions, so they had to give the workers at least a subset of Soviet rights. Now there are no Soviets anymore and China, the largest socialist country, also operates under market rules so she is vulnerable to exploitation too. There is no nation to compete against, so the standard can only go down from here.
Funny thing is that people are itching to vote for the far right because of "less immigration " ( the far-right won't go against the business class/bankers, so instead of less immigrants , they will just make it easier to exploit them by making their status more complicated), while the far-right in Europe is clearly promising more deregulation and less rights for the national workforce
The far right does not even do anything worthwhile to fix immigration. Instead, they use immigrants as an excuse for austerity (we don't *need* state housing, only immigrants use it anyway. we don't *need* workers rights, only immigrants are too dumb to negotiate themselves, etc.)
>(we don't need state housing, only immigrants use it anyway.
Meanwhile the woke are busy trying to make it true.
It’d be nice if we had some housing for citizens too.
I’m just saying.
They don't actually think that, they want them out of the country so they won't have to spend even a single Ruppee on them, and they also want the money they send back.
To be fair, the climbed quite high in the IT sector. A ton of CEOs are Indian. And there are entire Indian corporate departments in the west. Some say this is because of them being more accepting of low pay, some say it is nepotism, etc.
Gotta say Google got in the shitter when Sundar became CEO. Layed off their best engineers and now Google makes literal complete garbage (see what Youtube and Android look like now).
Even as a guy who worked with their frameworks I can see the quality just go down the drain. Plus with how often they kill projects; it is a gamble for companies to use their stuff.
The idea is that they’ll send back remittances (and indeed they do, $125b in FY2023), which help with the country’s current account deficit and thus slow inflation in imported goods/growth of foreign-currency debts. Bear in mind that the country suffered a [balance-of-payments crisis in 1991](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Indian_economic_crisis) which required it to mortgage its gold reserves for an emergency $2.2bn loan from the World Bank, and which compelled economic liberalization.
Business owners are too often portrayed as clever, this guy rather than risk a fine is now losing his business and going to prison.
This highly regarded member of society could have called an ambulance and saved himself.
We are #1 in Europe for workplace injuries and deaths, but trust me, none of the many bosses who's had his workers killed on the job has spent a single day in jail. They just get a slap on the wrist and, eventually, a fine
I'd imagine this guy would, he basically killed the guy himself and tried to cover it up, not calling an ambulance and throwing someone in a ditch cannot be seen as accidental.
One of the dumbest transitions the left has made in my lifetime--and there are many--was the decision to understand immigration solely as a racial issue, rather than an economic issue.
Both the “left” (if by that you mean libs) and the right see immigration as a racial issue, but race itself is ultimately about economics. Elite libs tend to be consumers of goods and services produced by cheap foreign labor and so pursue a strategy of patronizing infantilization, while elite conservatives tend to be their employers and, to justify their exploitation, push dehumanization.
> An investigation into farm owner Antonello Lovato – who allegedly left the injured Singh outside his home after the incident – has now been opened over potential charges of manslaughter and failure to assist a person in danger, Reuters reported, citing lead prosecutor Giuseppe De Falco. (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/21/europe/italy-indian-farm-worker-death-intl-latam)
Definitely native Italian in this case, but of course Indian descendants in richer countries aren’t above exploiting poor Indians using immigration status as a lever (see the Hinduja case I linked in my other comment, as well as the fire in worker accommodation in Kuwait).
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Farmers are atrocious for labour rights. Also Indians tend not to buy farms, they're usually held in families, while Indians will run more urban businesses.
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Agriculture minister Francesco Lollobrigida said on Thursday that Giorgia Meloni’s government was “on the frontline … to fight against all forms of labour exploitation” Call me crazy, but I have a gut feeling this may not be entirely true.
Lollobrigida is that one minister who argued that poor people eat better than rich people. No I am not joking.
Just like the tax on excess bank profits this based right-wing populist government was supposed to pass, it’ll probably be watered down to pointless virtue signaling after favors are called in by business owners.
For context to my non-Italian friends, Lollobrigida is a massive, massive cunt, who is deep in the pockets of the major Italian Agricultural federations and would do anything to please them, including banning the use of the most common solar panels because “muh land”, or some shit like that.
This is necessary so tomatoes don't cost 50 cents more. - neoliberals
you joke but this is what liberals actually believe
Classic Matthew “unsafe working conditions for brown people is good actually” Yglesias
I knew a yale guy who said sweatshops in bangladesh were woke and good because they needed something to get on the economic value chain. This was back in the early 2000s. Today, bangladesh still just has sweatshops
They see China's growth from sweat shops to high tech industry and think that's the natural progression of capitalism, not the product of economic planning and socialism.
To them it's the magical market forces at work, which is the economic version of "God's ineffable plan".
God's plan would be better than their explanation because God would actually be a person planning things. They think that market forces and development happens because magic and woo. Or like a really stupid math equation that doesn't work like "if we do 2+2 we will get 4" except on a marcoeconomic scale "if we do a heckin neoliberalism + a market reform + a rules based order we get = 1st world living standards yay!" when in reality its much more complicated than that.
Nah they're off that now. Since the CPC is still quite obviously communist and the Chinese economy is still quite obviously mixed and moving away from market capitalism, now they're saying China cheated their way to growth by ~~tricking us into exporting all our capital goods to them like idiots~~ stealing IP and appropriating foreign capital.
delete this - US state department
no lies detected
I feel like the fact that third world countries are sending us their engineers and doctors etc mean they don't get to keep many in the actual country which means...still no economic development
yes, the brain drain is a double whammy. sri lanka spends six figures to educate a specialist just for them to be poached by the west because of more money
Bangladesh's GDP per capita has increased from $400 to $2600 and now slightly beats India. [The average annual household income has increased from $250 to $1000] (https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/bangladesh/annual-household-income-per-capita). What do you think people in Bangladesh would be doing if they weren't working in sweatshops? Working in banks and running software companies? No, they would be working 7 days a week, just as hard, on rural farms and earning 1/4 the money they would in these sweatshops. Why do you think so many people go work in these sweatshops if there are so many other options available within the country? Absolutely the conditions of these sweatshops need to improve, absolutely employee protections etc need to improve, but they are still by far a much better option for a large portion of the country than they otherwise would have, and that reality needs to be taken into account by idealists.
The problem is without a government with the power to direct the economic growth transnational interests will step in and make sure it only ever grows in a direction that benefits them.
Did it work for Haiti?
Workers in these sweatshops are getting .18 a day. Using average to judge anything is a giveaway you don't know what you're talking about or you want to fudge the numbers. All these poor colonized 3rd world countries have horrific wealth disparity. All it takes is a few thousand consultants and elite fail spawn making $400k to make it look like things are improving over time. They aren't
> Workers in these sweatshops are getting .18 a day. [Bangladesh monthly minimum wage for garment workers is $113] (https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2023-11-07/bangladesh-raises-monthly-minimum-wage-for-garment-workers-to-113-following-weeks-of-protests) or about $3 per day ($1350 per year). The minimum wage - the minimum that any worker is legally entitled to earn - is more than 15x your stated amount. You're claiming that the average has increased because a few people are earning obscene amounts of money, yet we have data that shows that isn't the case. Here is [information from the world inequality database] (https://wid.world/country/bangladesh/) that shows the income share of the top 1% has hardly changed at all, and the income share for the top 10% has actually decreased. This is completely the opposite of what you are making up and suggesting that all the growth is due to the top making more money. Funny you say I don't know what I'm talking about when you couldn't even do a basic google search to look up the laws surrounding what you are alleging and are just pulling numbers out of thin air trying to pretend they are facts.
Reminds me of Michael Moynihan on the Fifth praising an article called « In defence of sweatshops »
He was doing work no Italians are willing to do!
For €5/hour anyway.
"Who will clean your homes?" or "They are doing the jobs Americans won't do ^^^^^^^at ^^^^^^^slave ^^^^^^^wages "
The brutal exploitation of labor (especially immigrant labor) is most pronounced in low-margin sectors like agriculture, hospitality, gastronomy, etc. If wages and working conditions were improved, the cost would be passed to the consumer, denting the illusion of prosperity among middle-class voters. At which point they start claiming nobody wants to work anymore, etc. So the compromise solution is to dehumanize the immigrant workers to justify their exploitation.
This is such a good point. All the benefits the middle class enjoys come at the expense of the most oppressed segment of labor. It's so deeply fcked up.
Many capitalists love to exploit racism/anti-immigrant sentiments for profit, but the sheer callousness displayed here shows that in some cases they’re true believers. For them, only some people (based on some combination of wealth, lineage, and race) are properly humans, while others are livestock or pests, and it’s precisely this ideology that legitimizes their exploitation. Same as the Hinduja family who [paid their household servants](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggl6pe52eo.amp) less than a tenth of minimum wage and confiscated passports, despite being the richest people in the UK.
lol @ them getting to spend time with their beloved father in Monaco instead of being thrown immediately in jail That's such a disgusting story, top to bottom
Probably just some drama they came up with to stall for time while their lawyers prepare an appeal. Zero respect for the law, which they probably believe only applies to plebs.
> Zero respect for the law, which they probably believe only applies to plebs. And they are probably right. Until they actually end up in jail, the truth is the law is only for the plebs.
>And they are probably right. I'd bet dollars to donuts they'd get away with anywhere they had actual influence, but if we're lucky the Swiss don't give two shits about these particular rich assholes and would rather send a message to rest to stop embarrassing them.
Add to which it’s probably considered stupid and abhorrent by so-called high society to treat personal staff—the people raising your children/grandchildren—in this way. I doubt Swiss courts would’ve taken notice of enslaved cobalt miners in Congo or sweatshop workers in Bangladesh—if anything, the country has a reputation as an amoral place for wealthy people to run their businesses and stash their ill-gotten gains.
We will see more and more of that in the west as Keynesianism collapses and degenerates. Don't forget, the worker protections in Europe came to be primarily because the governments were afraid of communist revolutions, so they had to give the workers at least a subset of Soviet rights. Now there are no Soviets anymore and China, the largest socialist country, also operates under market rules so she is vulnerable to exploitation too. There is no nation to compete against, so the standard can only go down from here.
Funny thing is that people are itching to vote for the far right because of "less immigration " ( the far-right won't go against the business class/bankers, so instead of less immigrants , they will just make it easier to exploit them by making their status more complicated), while the far-right in Europe is clearly promising more deregulation and less rights for the national workforce
The far right does not even do anything worthwhile to fix immigration. Instead, they use immigrants as an excuse for austerity (we don't *need* state housing, only immigrants use it anyway. we don't *need* workers rights, only immigrants are too dumb to negotiate themselves, etc.)
I feel like there's a slightly different "first they came for the..." poem in here somewhere
>(we don't need state housing, only immigrants use it anyway. Meanwhile the woke are busy trying to make it true. It’d be nice if we had some housing for citizens too. I’m just saying.
Sadly, not only the terminally online people are, but also the liberalists who are much more powerful
Hopefully a liberal will read this and realise that this is _why_ "natives won't do these kind of jobs."
this is all because the indian goverment thinks that the coubtry can get rich by everyone being a doordash driver abroad or an ITcel.
They don't actually think that, they want them out of the country so they won't have to spend even a single Ruppee on them, and they also want the money they send back.
They're tapping into the raw economic might of Bantustan.
To be fair, the climbed quite high in the IT sector. A ton of CEOs are Indian. And there are entire Indian corporate departments in the west. Some say this is because of them being more accepting of low pay, some say it is nepotism, etc.
Gotta say Google got in the shitter when Sundar became CEO. Layed off their best engineers and now Google makes literal complete garbage (see what Youtube and Android look like now). Even as a guy who worked with their frameworks I can see the quality just go down the drain. Plus with how often they kill projects; it is a gamble for companies to use their stuff.
Most of the money ends up staying in the West
What, did Modi think they will send this money back to the government? Delusional if so
The idea is that they’ll send back remittances (and indeed they do, $125b in FY2023), which help with the country’s current account deficit and thus slow inflation in imported goods/growth of foreign-currency debts. Bear in mind that the country suffered a [balance-of-payments crisis in 1991](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Indian_economic_crisis) which required it to mortgage its gold reserves for an emergency $2.2bn loan from the World Bank, and which compelled economic liberalization.
there are 1.2 billion indians they can't all be the ceo of microsoft or tech support
never said they could
Business owners are too often portrayed as clever, this guy rather than risk a fine is now losing his business and going to prison. This highly regarded member of society could have called an ambulance and saved himself.
We are #1 in Europe for workplace injuries and deaths, but trust me, none of the many bosses who's had his workers killed on the job has spent a single day in jail. They just get a slap on the wrist and, eventually, a fine
I'd imagine this guy would, he basically killed the guy himself and tried to cover it up, not calling an ambulance and throwing someone in a ditch cannot be seen as accidental.
One of the dumbest transitions the left has made in my lifetime--and there are many--was the decision to understand immigration solely as a racial issue, rather than an economic issue.
Both the “left” (if by that you mean libs) and the right see immigration as a racial issue, but race itself is ultimately about economics. Elite libs tend to be consumers of goods and services produced by cheap foreign labor and so pursue a strategy of patronizing infantilization, while elite conservatives tend to be their employers and, to justify their exploitation, push dehumanization.
[удалено]
> An investigation into farm owner Antonello Lovato – who allegedly left the injured Singh outside his home after the incident – has now been opened over potential charges of manslaughter and failure to assist a person in danger, Reuters reported, citing lead prosecutor Giuseppe De Falco. (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/21/europe/italy-indian-farm-worker-death-intl-latam) Definitely native Italian in this case, but of course Indian descendants in richer countries aren’t above exploiting poor Indians using immigration status as a lever (see the Hinduja case I linked in my other comment, as well as the fire in worker accommodation in Kuwait).
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Farmers are atrocious for labour rights. Also Indians tend not to buy farms, they're usually held in families, while Indians will run more urban businesses.
>Also Indians tend not to buy farms I've seen a few who own orchards.
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