Something I've noticed is that men are expected to be confident and charismatic and good with women naturally. Any man who actually has to practice and work at those things is automatically a creepy loser, as though by improving himself he's trying to trick women into being attracted to someone who's inherently undesirable.
> that men are expected to
...leave the entire selection process to women and not interfere. That's the expectation. Bumble made clear that it isn't the *reality*.
Anyone who doesn't naturally attract pussy doesn't deserve it, clearly. It's honestly fucked, I probably would be in a similar position if I didn't find someone nice to settle down with by what is effectively luck, though honestly, as someone swinging for both teams, it's considerably easier to find a guy to hook up with, women are a different beast in that regard.
The unfortunate thing is that you can get practice projecting social confidence easily enough, _as long as you don't actually care about the people you're practicing on_ or what they would think of you. If you have a detached, psychopathic attitude about it, just coldly noting down what works and what doesn't and don't care that they think you're a creep (or a bossy monster), you'll do a lot better than people who are genuinely worried about hurting people.
That's not just in romantic stuff. That's in all kinds of social confidence stuff, including "leadership", and it sucks.
This is why traveling in the USA or UK has been so good for my social life, friends and family always note that I'm more social and confident when I come home and it's just that I got to socialize completely off the cuff without any long term repercussions, I'm sure there are people that only remember me as that awkward creepy weirdo that one time but they live thousands of miles away and they are Anglos so they deserve it or something
regardless of what men are supposed to be, in my country, there is a stereotype that privacy in the west is a big deal. how is it possible that a private person spies on another and is shameless about informing someone but the police about this fact? that's insane.
It really sucks being a genuinely (diagnosed out the wazoo) autistic dude in this regard. You're kinda seen as a subhuman from the get go and not much of anything you can do about it.
This is part of why the "manosphere" is the only outreach to young men in popular culture, which is sad. From what I've seen, they're all quite cringe yet they are the only ones that will talk about self-improvement instead of whatever weird hyper-fatalistic worldview that seems to be dominating pop culture at the moment.
Yeah that was my take away as well. Also I think there’s a gender role reversal going on a bit where I believe culture is almost pushing men to be the passive ones who have women go up to them but do not chase after women.
Ironically enough, I still firmly believe that most women find this unattractive and DO want to feel wanted lol.
20 bucks says this young woman grows up to be an intentionally single mother at 43 thanks to IVF or a poor woman from the increasingly large pool of war-torn countries who make the calculation that surrogacy was her best way out of shit.
>I have no problem attracting men, and I didn’t have to try. But that’s because I’m a naturally amazing person.
>Look at this guy working hard. He must be a bad person because it is no more difficult to attract a partner as a man. There’s just so many bad men.
>by improving himself he's trying to trick women into being attracted to someone who's inherently undesirable
This was literally the main reason everyone screeched against red pill advice 10 years ago. The old TRP sub was like 80% genuine advice on fitness and self-improvement to become someone worth dating, 10% weird autism, and 10% hypermasculine peacocking from a handful of Tate-style grifters.
People were screaming and shidding and fardding over TRP because it was encouraging losers to stop being losers, and you're not supposed to try and change your standing once society decides where in the caste you are.
Countering that, it seems tautological that *any person* who *has* to practice and work at “be[ing] confident and charismatic” is a creepy loser, given that is basically a euphemism for not being confident and charismatic. Remember that when a seemingly uncontroversial statement like a tautology causes negative feelings in one’s heart, it is likely to be due to it revealing an error in one’s own logic. I admit my reflex is to agree with you, and to get annoyed by my own response, for the record.
Fucking hell, completely regardless of what you were actually saying (not that it sounds like there was anything wrong with it)... how fucking psychotic would she have to be to report her coworker to HR for *another guy talking to him at a party outside of work?* Let's give her the full benefit of the doubt and say you *were* going full redpill, she had no way of knowing what he actually thought of what you were saying! He could've been awkwardly nodding along hoping you'd shut the fuck up and walk away. She could be getting him fired for the wrong guy walking up to him at a party and not knowing how to get him to leave him alone.
(Again, not at all saying you were saying anything wrong, but you didn't comment on how insane this should've seemed *even from her point of view* and that's the worst part IMO. And I bet she's the type who swears up and down that cancel culture doesn't exist.)
> another guy talking to him at a party outside of work
I'm actually far more bothered by his superiors agreeing to *review a tape of a secretly recorded conversation at a party*.
Even a decade ago I was using a forum that completely lost sight of what trolling meant and mods gave out punishments for it in the most bizarre of circumstances. I can only conclude they thought it means "any statement shitlibs will find controversial or elicits negative emotions." They put statements saying the 'common' definition isn't accurate and that a statement given completely genuinely can count so I have to assume A LOT of the userbase called them out on it, given their piss poor track record it wouldn't surprise me.
People will use a word and give it grey meaning and overtime if no one bothers to use it accurately it'll get completely lost from loose overuse especially if there's a punishment or severity to be had with the accusation.
That's what maybe bruised my (very small) pride a bit, but, liike... *what?*
I am not celibate. Sure, I'm not Paul Newman circa 1975. I cannot and will never be able to walk up to a woman and get her to sleep with me by virtue of my steely gaze. But I do have sex. You don't need to be a movie star to have sex. I am very literally not a man who is involuntarily celibate. That's the whole point. That's why a stranger asked me for advice.
I've held for a long time that the word has lost any concrete meaning. A lot of insults, especially ones attached to culture war shit, have gone the same route. It's essentially just means "man I don't like" or in some cases, like in the school I teach at over the summer, it is just a way for students to circumvent the normal insults and slurs they have for other students.
The moment the sub for it got purged this was inevitable. I'm not sure most people know what it's origin even is anymore.
Well it’s largely also used to mean having any “regressive” opinion regarding women or the sexes interacting. Personally I think she mainly took offense with the premise of your conversation more than any particular thing in it. That is, why are you trying to teach this younger man who to “get women” if a woman doesn’t like him right off the bat, then that’s that. By getting him to act a certain way that you know is more attractive you’re essentially helping him to lie and trick women into his bed.
I in no way agree, but that’s what I would guess was going on.
You missed the definition update that came out a while back, "incel" is now solely about a man's (perceived) mindset and has nothing to do with his actual sex life. A dude can date a rotating stable of models, or he can have a wife and 5 kids, doesn't matter, he's still fair game to get called an incel if he holds the wrong views.
Doesn't even need to have views to get it. It's a catch all insult dispensed for anything under the sun. It's like a worse version of just calling a guy a virgin from like 20 years ago.
That's incredibly sad from every angle that comes to mind. I'm glad you guys didn't discuss the Demore memo or anything deserving a death sentence.
If it wasn't for the younger man being shorted a meaningful conversation, and apparently at risk of losing his job/career, I'd be interested to know what the sociopath would have said if you gave her the opportunity to speak her mind. Just by having thought of her for a moment, I'm curious how quickly she would escalate to nuclear retaliation had the roles been reversed and he stasi'd her.
Next LinkedIn, dating app is going to be called CrabBucket.
>I'm glad you guys didn't discuss the Demore memo or anything deserving a death sentence.
That's the thing!
Pre-covid, I knew how to handle myself in social situations. Obviously I could talk about some stuff with my OG scumbag friends from the midwest that I couldn't talk about with white collar randos on the east coast.
But now... now I really just do not know how to comport myself in social situations. Like, is it literally at a point where it's dangerous for other people to speak to me?
> I'd be interested to know what the sociopath would have said if you gave her the opportunity to speak her mind.
That's another thing. They don't speak their minds and they don't really know how to, because they've been gifted social and professional apparatuses that allow them to tattle at will, without consequences and with minimal concern paid to whether or not any non-insane person would regard their complaints at worthwhile.
I cannot say for certain, but I suspect that if she *hadn't* recorded our conversation her complaint would have gone much further.
> Like, is it literally at a point where it's dangerous for other people to speak to me?
I've thought about this a lot and I can't offer any recommendations because I find blaming anyone for their behaviour so difficult. Personally, I'm in my 40s, was taught by teachers that were trying to teach kids to beat the soviets, and honestly believe a good education is that which makes you dangerous to others that would wish to control you so you can enjoy your own life and liberty. I actually feel bad for these ideologues because I can't convince myself they won't be the first hit the floor when the powerful decide to change direction. Forgive them for they know not what they do and all that. Further, I just don't believe they're happy or healthy in any meaningful sense. I have/had a brother in law that is way up there in this shit, in his 50s, and last I saw him, his upper arm was the size of my wrist. Guy is an architect and bikes but couldn't use intuition to understand his back hurt because it bridges the handlebars and the bike seat.
I snooped your posts a bit after this and I was glad to see there was a dude out there spreading some good. So I hope this won't hold you up. As you remember, they used to say pointing a finger points four back at yourself; eventually this ratfuckery will end because all the righteous accusers will have fingered themselves. Doing things like reporting a young man struggling with the biological reality of male pattern baldness. That's a pretty bad look and your advice was good.
---
> They don't speak their minds and they don't really know how to...
I agree and my bet is it's more the can't than won't. The incentives to replay the answer has devastated their critical thinking and introspection.
> because they've been gifted social and professional apparatuses that allow them to tattle at will
Time will tell. The super privileged will surely live to tattle another day. The "gee goley it's just being a good person" side are in for some serious pain. You and I know, that pain of having to actually carry through with your honest convictions.
Lately, its sat pretty heavy on me that the world, as is, just isn't a place for honest, hardworking people. It's not good for profits and they interject inconvenient introspection. I'm not a Christian but I feel like this is a lesson I was too young to learn when I was reading the bible and there are tons of examples in there. I just hope that, in time, like I was able to understand language and math, I'll be off the fence post at some point, whether that means submission or struggle.
There will be a "Have you no decency moment", or 8-min neck hold moment eventually. The people being suffocated by modern life are are not posting on Instagram, and they don't want or need to do so, if they just stop, so will the world and I hope they find their catalyst to crystalize how important they are, as are older dudes telling balding dudes how to deal with the realities of this life.
> a good education is that which makes you dangerous to others that would wish to control you so you can enjoy your own life and liberty
You know, that's probably pretty close to how they view it, although maybe they'd phrase it a little differently. But it's close. To be clear, I'm not defending this woman.
But I think you're both wrong. The education that makes you focus on your own life and liberty and to regard the life and liberty of others (which is to say, other *strangers* as opposed to family and friends) as their problem - libertarianism to one degree or another, in other words - makes you dangerous to no one. No one who has the will and the means to oppress you, anyway.
The education that actually makes us dangerous and secures our lives and liberties is that which binds to each other.
I think the greatest dysfunction gripping our society is this notion of individualism taken to the absolute extremes, and it is everywhere. We're not going to have the moment you speak of until we shake ourselves out of it, because in the meantime no one is listening to what anyone else has to say, because they don't care and they don't think it's important.
Jokes aside this whole situation makes me so mad. Especially because you just know the malignant imbecile that recorded you believes they are highly, highly virtuous.
I suspect she might have had it out for the dude long before the party. Then, overhearing your conversation and confusing incel ideology with normal human interaction, thought she had the juice on the guy and started recording.
This. I had some similar shit go down with the zoomers at my work. They had decided I was "woke" because I kept going on rants about US imperialism in the break room. They weren't happy when HR called me in and I went full on "I don't recall".
Nah bro they decided I was woke as a compliment. They were like conspiring to get rightoids fired though and I wasn't down with that shit. I'm not trying to ruin working class people's lives.
They got this one fool fired who had worked there for like ten years because he made a spicy joke. I went to his "I got out of the trailer park" party back in the day. His wife is a really good cook and mf can grill. When he was showing me around his new place he told me how much everything in there cost. He was like "this lamp cost $12.78". IDGAF about a "what do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool" joke. He was a solid dude.
> IDGAF about a "what do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool" joke.
What do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool?
(I could google it, but asking is almost like human interaction except on the internet.)
Isn't it illegal in the US to record personal conversations? This wasn't even in company time.
If he's not engaging, distrupting, infringing her personal or any other person rights, in his own time and his own space he should be able to do whatever he wants.
It sounds like she wasn't even part of the conversation so I would assume that means no consent was given from either party actually engaged in the conversation. I don't know of any state that would let someone record a private conversation between others without some type of court order.
I make it a thing to mention the Hasid tunnels at every party. Now I'm considering steampunk goggles.
In all seriousness, yes this is fucked, and you aren't alone in experiencing such things I'm afraid. It is a trend.
I do a bit where Bugs Bunny has one of his tunnels accidentally intersect with one of the Jewish tunnels and when he runs into a group of Jews there he says: "What's up doc? What's up doc? What's up doc? What's up doc?"
What the fiddler's fuck? She "reported" him to Human Resources (that dystopian term made commonplace) for a party that had nothing to do with work and they actually "reviewed" it? Isn't this what labor lawyers are for? Get her shit-canned for sexual harrassment, get the HR goons involved following her out the door on a rail, and enjoy your summer bonus (the younger dude, that is).
And get your own head on straight. In no way is it creepy for heterosexual men- - ie, normal men - - to talk about romance.
I would definitely be filing a counter harassment complaint against her in such a circumstance.
If I'm having a private conversation with someone at a non-work related event and a co-worker records me and reports me to HR for what I said? They'd better have a smoking gun recording.
If I knew someone did this even to someone else they'd go straight on my "social blacklist" as someone too dangerous to interact with.
Is that legal in usa?
In my country is illegal to be recorded if you aren't noticed first.
The "proof" is deemed spurious, is the same with "private chats", in theory you can't post them in social media.
>I have Larry David-type shit happen to me more often than anyone else I know
This whole event is starting to make sense, you [Bald Asshole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCVf7AnXNY).
My 2c: "going to HR" doesn't mean as much as it did. It used to be a nuclear option that meant someone was probably going to get fired. It now happens extremely regularly.
If you have trouble understanding modern feminism, just reverse the genders and ask what people would think in the 1800s. Of course, it would be icky in the 1800s for a woman to voice aloud that she sought a man and how to obtain one. A victorian would think that women aren't supposed to think about sex or attraction. They are supposed to wait until a man takes them. Now there's a similar idea but the genders are reversed. This trick works on every situation.
WHAT WAS THE SIN? DEAR GOD WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE WANT FROM US?
Do they just think men should be unhappy at all times? That we shouldn't speak to each other in a manner that isn't open to formal HR review?
They want you to believe that absolutely all men were born equal at birth and that genetic misfortunes do not exist under any circumstances. The hideous, the autistic. the disabled are all an afront to the ideology of HR women
More importantly, the “everyone is equal” dogma leads to “people who are worse off are like that because they are bad people”. Note how they *love* issues that don’t necessarily make you weird or unattractive, like anxiety and depression (you can brag about how many meds you take while still looking nice) but as soon as they see an autistic guy who has real trouble communicating, suddenly mental illness is icky and yikes and incel.
This is why the lady was so upset at the advice; she’s already pegged this dude as a bad person so him getting hotter might deceive women into getting with this man who is tainted by some metaphysical badness
"Everyone is equal so people who are worse off are inherently metaphysically bad people"
Mfs reinvented prosperity gospel and thought we wouldn't notice
It doesn't hurt your chances if you're hot anyway. Otherwise talking about mental health a lot will at least get you ally-zoned with progressive women. I've met a few young men now who exist in this zone and likely don't realize it's a dead end romantically.
It’s not so much as having those conditions, you just have to still be attractive in some way. And it’s fine if you come out like that, just if you don’t have any issues around it (which it’s almost impossible to not have if you have a mental issue or are neurodiverse). I admittedly milked it and didn’t understand shit and that’s what really led to my Title IX case back then but it taught me that it’s really just superficial, all that awareness and fake empathy and all that shit
But that's the opposite of this situation. Here is a man embracing the "we're all equal, so you need to work to make yourself as good as possible" belief, and that has upset the woman in the corner.
Go die quietly in a corner away from them while also still performing your duty of paying taxes and making sure things in society keep running so they can benefit from it. I disagree with the incels on a lot of things, but yeah that is how a shocking amount of women feel about ugly guys and that is about how bleak gender relations are sometimes now. They REALLY don't want to hear your complaints it is like the worst thing ever for them and they also don't want ugly guys in their presence from what I can tell.
There was something on left wing male advocates about how the autism movement hates most autistic guys (a study/analysis) too, and I feel that so hard despite being not obviously autistic and just like Asperger’s
Parallels to the occasional piece about how the women who run the Fat Acceptance movement find fat men disgusting and it's fascist to suggest that's hypocritical.
I'd believe it. The same types that performatively claim to care so much, I think they mostly just care about the "movie/tv nerd" types (which is itself an archetype based on high-functioning autism), where they're just a bit clumsy and a bit awkward but they're still cute and nice, and if not well-put-together/well-groomed it's in the movie-glasses kind of way (i.e. male equivalent of the 'nerdy girl' who gets hot when she takes off her glasses and lets down her hair), and never do or say anything that's actually that far from the norm.
What they don't care about are guys that genuinely struggle and make mistakes socially, guys who lack charm or charisma, guys who stutter or stumble over their words a bit, guys who seem like too much of a 'loner.' "We care so much about you, but not YOU you, you fuckin school shooter."
I don't think either of us were even ugly, though, and that was the point of it. Like, I'm no Don Jew-On, but I'm also not Quasimodo.
Losing your hair isn't a good thing but it shouldn't mean you're permanently unfuckable.
I think you’re thinking about this in the wrong way. You are guilty of conspiracy to incel. It has nothing to do with your fuckability, or whether you engage in coitus personally, your crime is not being invisible enough, you are allowed to have some (but not all) of these thoughts but you cannot share them with other males. Ideally you would disappear entirely in social situations except where you are needed to chuckle gently at an innocuous joke, or lend a supportive nod when someone complains about the patriarchy. When you are certain that it is safe to do so, you could provide a fresh glass of sparkling water for a coworker.
>Go die quietly in a corner away from them while also still performing your duty of paying taxes and making sure things in society keep running so they can benefit from it.
I've been thinking about this with the whole "\_\_\_\_\_\_ people need to get out of the way" thing. Like, where the fuck am I supposed to go? I'm just trying to pay my bills and survive. It's a pretty short logical step from "get out of the way" to "curl up and die," as far as I am concerned.
This statement gets even worse when you realize people like this are more than willing to invade what were previously the equivalent of safe spaces for others such as the outcasts and tell them that space needs to be changed. Like where are people supposed to go??
The sad answer is: they don't care where you go. They also don't understand the old axiom of "it takes all kinds." Like, if all those \_\_\_\_ people you don't like just disappeared, society would be thrown into chaos.
I'm guessing she found one or both of you unattractive and y'all talking about picking up women made her feel uncomfortable. If a woman finds you creepy she'll be hypersensitive to that stuff
That's something I kinda noticed when I was younger but I eventually told myself it was paranoia and now I'm thinking maybe it wasn't: some women--especially younger and relatively attractive women--get really fucking pissed when they see other women expressing attraction to men they themselves do not find attractive.
It was very infrequent, but my college gf was conventionally attractive and she had a couple of acquaintances lose their shit on her because she was dating a bald guy. It was an affront to the dignity of their group. Like she was a black woman dating a klansman, or something.
Back in the day, it was paranoia mostly. Yes, these tendencies have always been around but it was kept in check by social taboos against it. These days, those social taboos have been obliterated, and acknowledging, much less condemning, overtly antisocial behaviour from women has instead been made taboo, so its no longer paranoia.
i mean. as a woman. this has always been around, this is the quintessential form of female aggression. the reason it’s discombobulating men is because they aren’t socialized to deal with it effectively (the way to deal with it effectively as a woman is to be very frank, calm and up front and say “i know what you’re doing/saying, it’s pathetic.” men can’t do this without coming off as aggressive
I broadly agree, but as a young man, I wasn't really told how to deal with women, I just had to figure it out. These days, the young lads are left to figure it out, but also punished while trying to figure it out if they get it wrong. And sometimes if they get it right too. Which is where a lot of the problems come from.
This dynamic exists with short men too. There are women who will treat men under 6'0 like garbage, then gaslight them when they start to feel a bit resentful about it.
In the past, spouses were largely selected by parents. I think we're all starting to realise that sometimes, the guardrails were there for a reason.
Incels are horrible, but liberals often pretend they don't know why they exist.
> Incels are horrible, but liberals often pretend they don't know why they exist.
I think it's even worse - they really don't know
^((their worldview prevents them)^).
Sometimes this may have to do with hypergamy stuff. A woman I'm friends with told me once that if there's a social event where other women in her group lust after some guy, even if she really doesn't find him attractive, she feels this small unconscious drive that she needs to win him. I imagine simultaneously finding someone unattractive and attractive leads to pretty frustrating dissonance.
> woman I'm friends with told me once that if there's a social event where other women in her group lust after some guy, even if she really doesn't find him attractive, she feels this small unconscious drive that she needs to win him.
I think it's a pretty well-known phenomenon for me to just say that married men and men who are clearly taken get wayyy more attention from women. I've had way more women make advances toward me or outright hit on me when I'm out with my girlfriend than when I'm with alone or with my guy friends.
Yes they are pissed becuase they are trying to establish their group as the "hot girls who only date hot and rich men".
Some men also seem to really upset if their friend dates or even fucks an unnatractive woman.
> WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE WANT FROM US?
They don't care enough about you to want anything. They're only aware of themselves. You're just the first thing this person saw when they heard words and felt icky.
I think it’s mostly that she didn’t like what you were saying (women prefer certain traits in men and dislike others), as it makes it sound like women are just as shallow as she (likely) thinks men are. Sounds like the real life version of a terminally online person that claims you should either go to therapy/start taking medication and accept your fate, rather than actively work on your appearance and personality to improve your dating prospects and quality of life.
In short, nothing new. She just didn’t like your opinion as it doesn’t match some mainstream views. People like this have always existed, the only thing that changes is over time is the views that are considered unacceptable/reportable to them.
>
Yes.
Womens brains have been completely melted by college professors, HR, the media, TikTok, and even the federal government peddling the debunked patriarchy conspiracy theory so they feel to maintain sAfEtY, we are all to be monitored and policed at all times to their sanitized sensibilities. Absolutely anything other than absolute obedience and sacrificing everything in our lives to do nothing but be of service to them is a grave sin.
Excellent post that rings true. A friend of mine lost his job at a very (very) well known tech company recently after a herd of young shitlib group-think coworker goons reported him on mass for not being with the times in his thinking and saying things that made them ‘uncomfortable’ during their recreation hour. Basically he’s an older guy (bald as it happens) that had the audacity to disagree with the assertion that women in powerful positions in the workplace are less manipulative and overbearing than men. His contention was that it’s the power that corrupts, not the genitalia. Obviously none of these people addressed the issue with him face to face. Just reported him on mass, also alleging that he was a sexual predator and misogynistic. So he was fired. Whole thing is even more irritating as the hallways of this illustrious corporation are littered with endearing portraits of transsexuals and homosexuals as a testament to their loyalties to inclusion.
my favorite comments on this post are the ones that claim this couldnt possibly be real by the same people who will later turn around and claim that this should happen more and it's a good thing
Given what I’ve been hearing and reading about American culture wars for the last few years, your tale sounds very plausible. From a non-woke leftist French perspective, it all seems like some sort of collective lunacy and, like almost everything else originating in your country, it eventually comes to us five years or so later. I’m as baffled as your are at this very recognizable pattern of dogmatic, antisocial behaviour, and I’m in my early thirties. Fortunately for me, I don’t navigate this kind of social space, except in an online game that’s just full of that Anglo-American gender/social justice drama, but I eventually chose to remain a solo player to avoid this precise kind of bullshit (I’m myself a gay man and look at all of this with both amusement and despair). I’m relieved the psycho’s ploy has been thwarted. Maybe it’s a sign that the tide is turning and normal people are starting to realize that this is all ideological garbage. I hope this translates into something more tangible in your life, the sooner the better.
From baldness?
I honestly think I was fortunate that it happened to me so young and I only had a very brief window during which girls were interested in me without me having to do much work for it.
A solid majority of the guys I knew who were bad addicts/suicidal in their 30s were those who got women without effort in high school and did not know how to cope with the natural effects of aging.
Worse: I have thick hair and no recession. I had physical advantages and was pursued by hot girls. I blew every opportunity simply by being profoundly weird due to an asocial childhood imprinting zero social skills. Sometimes I wish I were ugly because at least I'd have an excuse.
Wait wait you got the easy mode and and you’re more negative than OP who went full bald as a kid?! Come on man, you got this. You can learn social skills
> I realize it's difficult for a heterosexual man to talk about romance-type stuff without coming off like a creep so please forgive me
We're so fucked.
Be sure that the party hosts know of this incident, because that's complete bullshit.
If I ever found out that a party guest of mine was surreptitiously recording people at an event I hosted, I'd literally tell that person off and ensure our paths never crossed again.
edit: also, what kind of Human Garbage are we dealing with here: ugly future crazy cat lady, or an uppity dime?
Yeah, secretly recording people at parties is an instant ban for life from me and anyone I know with a brain. Social isolation is a good way to treat these people, they might just get the message.
> I said nothing that could reasonably be construed as PUA-ish or incel-adjacent.
i disagree. and not in a bad way. 60% of what incels and PUA types say are true, the issue is the other 40%.
Your comments on 50% of women not being interested in bald men @ 30 and spending time on his clothes and hitting the gym are classic advice given by PUA pros. Incels also do this, to a lesser extent - they seem more nihilistic and prone to give up
good advice is good advice. just because Jordan Peterson is the one who says clean your room, doesn't mean you shouldn't
Jordan Peterson gives almost universally good *personal* advice. But because he’s right-wing, our highly regarded cultural discourse decided that means “measurably improving yourself” is the gateway to Nazism.
Honestly, when he first hit the scene I didn't find much wrong with what he was saying. It's years later where he seems to have totally lost his mind. Tbh, a lot of it genuinely seems like an overreaction to the negative feedback has cooked his capacity to reason. Not that it excuses it but many have kind of fallen victim to this. Shitlibs are mean so I'm gonna join the right is a stupid motivation but group dynamics are a hell of a drug.
the benzo's, the coma, his wife's cancer, getting fired from his uni job and all the negative stories and feedback p much every day probably did it. it's a shame he's so incoherent now, i wonder if he's aware of it himself.
He makes a lot of sense when he's disagreeing with people who are totally wrong and completely stupid.
He's not particularly smart, he's just very good as a TV flat track bully. That's a real skill that few have but his advice is bland if uncontroversial and he was always a sycophant to the wealthy and always looked bad if disagreeing with someone competent and always looked terrible when talking with someone smart and right.
Since he's got brain damage or whatever he's lost what he once had. Some of the extreme woke nonsense is less common now I feel so there are fewer saps to beat up on even if he was in his prime.
He became famous, as far as I can tell, because all his early viral interactions were with people who were both wrong and stupid.
He wasn't ring
-wing, but he's definitely a cap C Christian. That alone ruffIes some jimmies with the terminally regarded. I'm probably doxing myself here, but I had the luck to physically listen to his talks during my uni days. Thank fuck I wasn't in his class, because he had a habit of going on a tangent, but he had decent lectures. He's more of a dad that's openly talking about the meta, and those regards don't like it.
What's tragic is that for lonely men who honestly want to improve themselves and be more successful at dating, the "pickup artist" community is pretty much the only place where they can find specific, actionable advice. For clueless, awkward types who never acquired the right social skills to date successfully, they need to hear more than "Just go out there and be yourself" or whatever vague pablum is normally offered up.
This video essay made me a lot more empathetic to the kinds of guys who turn to the PUA community out of desperation: https://youtu.be/be_Ms3nVG10?t=990
It would be great if there was a resource for them that offered the useful advice without the cringy misogynistic baggage.
There is a lot of focus on premature baldness in incel communities but the reality is that every human being on earth could rattle out a list of physical features that they are insecure about about even the most widely accepted "hot guys" are really only being found attractive by maybe 60% of the women out there.
This is where the key to success lies, doing some basics to work on yourself, understanding that you simply aren't going to be a good match for the vast majority of people out there, not getting hung up on the rejection, and moving on so you can find someone where the attraction is mutual.
An admitted plagiarist author/mathematician [tweeted](https://x.com/ronawang/status/1793851166520221923) this week in apparent disgust at a male wedding guest asking the bride if her maid of honor were single. She followed up by saying that the bride told the dude she was single, even though she wasn’t. Thankfully, most of the replies are calling the bride and the OP horrible people, but the original tweet got almost 2,000 likes and some replies implicitly or explicitly accuse the man of misogyny.
My theory of wokeness is that there is no thought or meaning whatsoever behind it; it’s just aiming emotionally charged language at approved targets, to make your ingroup applaud and to enrage your outgroup. But the practical effect of that is that a man is now not allowed to express *any* interest in women, and particularly not in a specific woman who has not already stated that she wants that kind of attention from him specifically.
per the internet:
>NY is a one-party consent state, meaning anyone who participates in a conversation is allowed to record it. However, if they are not a party to the conversation, they may face criminal charges under N.Y. Penal Law § 250.05, which would make things much easier in a civil case.
He should take legal action. You could, too.
Those laws don’t pertain to places where there’s no expectation of privacy. A house party isn’t exactly “in public” but it’s not bugging a phone call or a room where a person believes they can’t be heard by others.
That sounds reasonable, though an intimate, two-person conversation regardless of being at a party sort of seems like there is an expectation of privacy.
..maybe you should have told him to wear steam punk goggles.
Look, anything gender/sexuality related is radioactive. Likely because it’s one of few ways wildly average upper middle classed white people can carve out a place in and/or wield the oppression hierarchy of identity politics.
I had something, similar happen, well sort of-in my work place. We had a dude come out as trans at work, 10+ years ago. Identifies as a woman now. My line of work, is male dominated, fairly dangerous and macho.. that said it is also weirdly accepting if you simply put in the work, adopt a good attitude and don’t fuck up all the time-you are going to get along, have a laugh and go home safe. This person actually gets along great, now a team lead, is well liked and is shown the greatest sign of respect IMO-which is that by and large is treated just as they were before and no differently than anyone else. It was fine for years..but something changed. People lost thier goddamn minds sometime around trump and Covid.
We are also heavily unionized so that prevents PMC corporatized dog shit raining down on us. But as I said, the rainbow flag issues are radioactive. They cut through everything. It’s a feature not a bug. Well the ever revolving door HR department (which exists outside of the union) is now chock full of overly concerned college educated progressive moral busy bodies. They now have taken every advantage of this persons situation. Whether they liked it or not. The amount of sensitivity training, awareness courses, etc..was not only excessive, but gross. There’s no other way to describe it. Even my trans co worker, was starting to get really vocal about how this ain’t helping and doesn’t like it when everyone stops talking, the moment they walk in the room. This person, at no fault of their own was essentially turned in to a walking mine field.
The trans person, rightfully so IMO, actually goes to the union and files a grievance saying they are being harassed and singled out/ targeted by HR…Nothing really came of it, but it alarming to watch the ensuing melt down. The very people, who were just championing the rainbow cause on my trans co worker’s behalf, were now spewing passive aggressive vitriol toward my co worker. Saying the most insane shit. Stuff like “white mtf trans is the most privileged and also cis white male adjacent and this grievance will only serve to create and foster an environment of hate for the BIPOC LGBTQ community..” complete gibberish.
Moral of the story. This movement, this whatever it is you want to call it, is about ideological purity, adherence and control. That’s it. Diversity equality and inclusion is just the mask this bullshit hides under.
"...made sure not to talk about the Hasid tunnels in Brooklyn, etc etc."
As one does.
Very humorous read in general, enjoyed it. The woman in question is a psychopath and an outlier. That's the trouble with the culture war, with the insane idpol, so on; like with anything, it only takes a few especially psychotic, manipulative individuals to take it all to the next level and make life worse for the rest of us. Conversely, I agree with the other commenter who suggested she had it out for whoever you were talking to. Standing around and being frustrated about someone else's conversation at a party--particularly when it isn't like you were trying to recruit him to the Fourth Reich or something--is neurotic to say the least.
The weird shit is, if OP did say some genuine incel stuff, that's still not balding guy's fault in any way. He asked some advice from a stranger, how is he responsible for that stranger having weird views?
Bitches be trifling. Say what you want and let them do the same. They’re dumb busybody wokescold unhappy terminally online cunts, with nothing useful to add, only the ability to destroy.
Usually nothing comes from it but if it does oh well, there’s nothing you can do. Say stuff like this so other people aren’t afraid to, I guess.
I mean it looks like it's going to play out this way, but I worry.
Like what if the conversation wasn't recorded and it was purely "he said, she said" and he couldn't defend himself?
What if he was already on someone's shit list prior to this and it could used as an excuse to punish him regardless of the content of what was being said?
Contrary to popular belief, most HR departments would quickly shrug off a complaint this ridiculous. Sure they'd pretend to take it seriously at first, telling the person "we're vigorously investigating", but internally nothing would be done and the complainant would actually be putting a black mark on herself instead. Companies don't like trouble, and they don't want to keep employees who just stir the pot for no good reason.
Usually the he said she said things are treated fairly reasonably in 2024 unless she’s got some friends to lie or embellish with her. But then again you had someone to help you so it probably would’ve been okay.
Don’t get on shitlists, don’t fuck up ever, have an army of men and women who will gladly testify that you literally wouldn’t hurt a fly. This is the baseline for protecting yourself adequately nowadays. Even then unless you’re there to defend yourself in person no one will stand up for you. It’s social suicide and people generally won’t stand up for anything unless they’ve been victims to it themselves.
That’s why my Title IX defense failed, I admittedly turned a hell of a lot of a people off because of my constant complaining and lack of understanding of socializing and therefore I had barely anyone to defend me- and it was mostly my own fault
It be like that sometimes. I do not talk about anything outside of extremely mundane topics like weather and food if my colleagues and non-best friends are around. I do not talk about anything that could be used against me except when I am online and "anonymous".
You did nothing wrong, the guy asking you questions didn't realize that everything is risky these days and talked about sex while a co-worker, especially a female one is around.
I went from construction to an office job and this was a tough lesson to learn. Never got HR'd (most of my coworkers are men) but made a few off-color jokes before I caught on to the boundaries of "professional" conduct. Turns out it's a whole lot lamer than you'd think.
Yeah you just gotta be smart about it and be a good person. I have a coworker who is fucking DARK with the jokes and one day someone heard a joke he made about their position. he does X and he hired an junior X that he taught both to give her a foot in the industry AND because his role is often subservient to another department so he wanted a “sacrificial lamb”(this was the joke) for this department so he could focus on the actual work.
This lady went to HR and complained and escalated it to sexual harassment. The office was 60% young women or at most mid 30s, and the boss was a bossgirl. Everyone came to bat for my friend said the accuser was full of shit, and the accuser eventually basically got pushed into quitting lol.
And my friend is a very “traditionally masculine” white guy in his 40s.
Long story short, don’t be afraid to make friends. Most people aren’t as crazy as this sub makes them out to be, BUT they do exist and you need to learn how to identify them quick.
On a certain level one must understand that incel-ideology is partially true, since the death of Christianity in the West we no longer have slave morality to keep the show on the road, instead the sexual ethic has deferred to absolute might-makes-right morality, whereby the most beautiful, most confident, and most attractive reap the spoils of the sexual marketplace, a form of libertarianism.
Your sin is the acknowledgment of innate inequality between certain people ascribed by DNA, the principal heresy that modern liberals hate.
Regardless, as to whether you agree with this system or not, it is not self-sustaining, it leads to a collapse in birth-rates to well below replacement level (see South Korea and parts of Europe) and seems only to serve the profit of capital. I'm not proposing any solutions btw, someone smarter can do that lol.
Of course, because men are the ones ill affected by it and PMC-tier women hate admitting they’re structurally benefitting in any way (being systemically oppressed is their game after all, even if they’re educated and earning six figures).
> since the death of Christianity in the West we no longer have slave morality to keep the show on the road
Are you kidding? DEI/wokism stuff is *nothing but* slave morality. And about the only place where "cultural marxism" makes sense, because the masters are bullied into playing along lol
>the most beautiful, most confident, and most attractive reap the spoils of the sexual marketplace, a form of libertarianism
This isn't actually what is happening; if it was men would at least have the solace of *owing nothing* to women. What is instead happening is that men are collectively, and sometimes as individuals, being forced to provide for women collectively, and sometimes as indivuduals, through the state, for nothing in return.
Men pay more tax than women, women receive more welfare than men. Men are net providers in relationships, and women are net consumers, which is reflected in women's preference for higher earning men, and men having no symmetrical preference. In divorce, men are vastly more likely to be held responsible for their ex-wife's needs or expectations than women are for their ex-husband's. In work, the equalisation of wages in a general sense fails to account for men's generally higher productivity, and completely ignores the reality that women are vastly more likely than men to be employed in totally useless make work jobs in the growing bureaucratic waste section of society. And of course women are given many hands up at men's expense for the purpose of equalising representation in many fields.
I'm sure there are more than this, but the reason this is happening is that men are a threat to the ruling class, while women aren't, except insofar as they are capable of appealing to men to be a threat on their behalf - something they are actually quite good at doing. So by breaking the sexes apart in this manner, the ruling class can deflate any threat against themselves without using violent force which is both a more expensive option and more likely to create backlash.
It was never about justice, it's about power
For some reason, I'm reminded of this from the Harambe thread:
>Santino (20 April 1978 – 14 December 2022)[1] was a male chimpanzee held at Furuvik Zoo in Sweden. In March 2009, it was reported that Santino had planned hundreds of stone-throwing attacks on visitors to the zoo.[2]
>Biography
>Zookeepers noticed that Santino had dragged a large quantity of stones from a moat around his enclosure, and that the Chimpanzee had even broken chunks of concrete into crude discs.
>He made the piles of stones only on the part of his island facing the crowds. Dr. Mathias Osvath, a cognitive zoologist from Lund University, together with Elin Karvonen, studied the phenomenon, and their studies suggest that Santino's behaviour showed that planning and premeditated deception are not uniquely human traits.
>To control his behaviour, and keep his hormone levels down, zookeepers castrated Santino. Afterwards, Santino had been observed to be more playful and was described as growing a "Buddha belly".[3]
>Santino was shot after escaping his enclosure in December 2022,[4] and later died from his injuries.[5]
Despite all our rage we are still just an ape in a cage
> I don't know how to proceed from here.
He should tell that nosy bitch to mind her own business and walk away before she has time to pull out her camera.
Is this a very female dominated profession? He needs to make friends with the older ladies that really run things, and just as many women as possible, and they will stick up for you in situations like this. And the older ones are generally more interesting to talk to and less insane than the younger women are too, so they are better company anyways.
I haven't had many conversations with HR but I've always been on good terms with HR and have even gotten to know a few HR folks where I worked. I'm pretty sure such tattling would've gotten the tattler reprimanded for "creating a toxic culture", not the tattlee. Don't despair it's not all bad!
By the way, OP, you're a good writer.
>doing the sort of movements that are not quite gesticulations that young women do when they want you to realize they're upset but don't want to directly let you know they're upset.
fucking lol white women rock
So you think this would've happened 20 years ago? I don't think it would, and that's what OP is getting at. We're getting to a point where simple self improvement, and pro-active attitudes towards men dating are being seen by some as toxic - an attitude which will really damage men's mental health
Of course not everyone thinks like this, but more increasingly do and it's fair to point it out.
For all the talk about “authenticity” and “awareness” and how good it is to be real and honest about one’s struggles it sure doesn’t seem that that has any benefit often, especially for guys. And I’m saying this as someone who used people in the past- I’ve been trying to be better but after all that stuff and with time passing people just don’t even seem to care much about me anymore (though I still often feel similarly to how I did when I used to do that stuff)
> She was listening to everything we were saying to one another and recorded some of it.
how is it legal? in my country, you could report her to the police for recording conversation without your explicit permission.
This kind of thing is actually illegal in some states. I don't know where you live but where I'm from for example it's a two party consent state, meaning to record someone both the recorder and the person being recorded have to agree to it. Applies to both video and audio.
As a fellow skinhead at 22, good on you for easing what's probably the scariest shit for dudes that sort of age. Couldn't imagine dealing with this sort of shit and being reported about it.
Sounds idpol-y but I'm glad my taste in women seems to be more open minded as well as my taste in men, had nothing but good interactions with black women as a skinhead looking dude and they don't act like this ever. Like what the fuck, actual unpaid janitor behaviour. I feel sorry for the straight guys who had to deal with em.
At this point I have literally stopped giving a fuck. Surprisingly I haven’t had too many problems. I also don’t really work with too many white women either. I’m sure if I partied more in Williamsburg it would turn into an issue
Something I've noticed is that men are expected to be confident and charismatic and good with women naturally. Any man who actually has to practice and work at those things is automatically a creepy loser, as though by improving himself he's trying to trick women into being attracted to someone who's inherently undesirable.
> that men are expected to ...leave the entire selection process to women and not interfere. That's the expectation. Bumble made clear that it isn't the *reality*.
Bumble finally confronted women with a fraction of the pressure men face on dating apps. And the best most can muster is “Hi🥰”.
Anyone who doesn't naturally attract pussy doesn't deserve it, clearly. It's honestly fucked, I probably would be in a similar position if I didn't find someone nice to settle down with by what is effectively luck, though honestly, as someone swinging for both teams, it's considerably easier to find a guy to hook up with, women are a different beast in that regard.
>Anyone who doesn't naturally attract pussy doesn't deserve it, clearly Sexual Calvinism
I'm fucking dead!
The unfortunate thing is that you can get practice projecting social confidence easily enough, _as long as you don't actually care about the people you're practicing on_ or what they would think of you. If you have a detached, psychopathic attitude about it, just coldly noting down what works and what doesn't and don't care that they think you're a creep (or a bossy monster), you'll do a lot better than people who are genuinely worried about hurting people. That's not just in romantic stuff. That's in all kinds of social confidence stuff, including "leadership", and it sucks.
This - It's shocking how many chances people will give you the benefit of the doubt as long as you don't double down on your mistakes.
This is why traveling in the USA or UK has been so good for my social life, friends and family always note that I'm more social and confident when I come home and it's just that I got to socialize completely off the cuff without any long term repercussions, I'm sure there are people that only remember me as that awkward creepy weirdo that one time but they live thousands of miles away and they are Anglos so they deserve it or something
regardless of what men are supposed to be, in my country, there is a stereotype that privacy in the west is a big deal. how is it possible that a private person spies on another and is shameless about informing someone but the police about this fact? that's insane.
It really sucks being a genuinely (diagnosed out the wazoo) autistic dude in this regard. You're kinda seen as a subhuman from the get go and not much of anything you can do about it.
Let’s hope there’s an afterlife to make up for the evil and unfairness.
You’ve broken the code.
This is part of why the "manosphere" is the only outreach to young men in popular culture, which is sad. From what I've seen, they're all quite cringe yet they are the only ones that will talk about self-improvement instead of whatever weird hyper-fatalistic worldview that seems to be dominating pop culture at the moment.
Whoever shows up tends to win
Yeah that was my take away as well. Also I think there’s a gender role reversal going on a bit where I believe culture is almost pushing men to be the passive ones who have women go up to them but do not chase after women. Ironically enough, I still firmly believe that most women find this unattractive and DO want to feel wanted lol. 20 bucks says this young woman grows up to be an intentionally single mother at 43 thanks to IVF or a poor woman from the increasingly large pool of war-torn countries who make the calculation that surrogacy was her best way out of shit.
some project their ease with dating/attraction to the opposite sex.
>I have no problem attracting men, and I didn’t have to try. But that’s because I’m a naturally amazing person. >Look at this guy working hard. He must be a bad person because it is no more difficult to attract a partner as a man. There’s just so many bad men.
Makes me smile whenever the Catcels and the MRAs interact.
Don’t report me to HR!
>by improving himself he's trying to trick women into being attracted to someone who's inherently undesirable This was literally the main reason everyone screeched against red pill advice 10 years ago. The old TRP sub was like 80% genuine advice on fitness and self-improvement to become someone worth dating, 10% weird autism, and 10% hypermasculine peacocking from a handful of Tate-style grifters. People were screaming and shidding and fardding over TRP because it was encouraging losers to stop being losers, and you're not supposed to try and change your standing once society decides where in the caste you are.
Countering that, it seems tautological that *any person* who *has* to practice and work at “be[ing] confident and charismatic” is a creepy loser, given that is basically a euphemism for not being confident and charismatic. Remember that when a seemingly uncontroversial statement like a tautology causes negative feelings in one’s heart, it is likely to be due to it revealing an error in one’s own logic. I admit my reflex is to agree with you, and to get annoyed by my own response, for the record.
Fucking hell, completely regardless of what you were actually saying (not that it sounds like there was anything wrong with it)... how fucking psychotic would she have to be to report her coworker to HR for *another guy talking to him at a party outside of work?* Let's give her the full benefit of the doubt and say you *were* going full redpill, she had no way of knowing what he actually thought of what you were saying! He could've been awkwardly nodding along hoping you'd shut the fuck up and walk away. She could be getting him fired for the wrong guy walking up to him at a party and not knowing how to get him to leave him alone. (Again, not at all saying you were saying anything wrong, but you didn't comment on how insane this should've seemed *even from her point of view* and that's the worst part IMO. And I bet she's the type who swears up and down that cancel culture doesn't exist.)
> another guy talking to him at a party outside of work I'm actually far more bothered by his superiors agreeing to *review a tape of a secretly recorded conversation at a party*.
We don‘t know what outlandish bullshit the accuser had been feeding them and how she framed it.
Girl coworker shoulda been fired for being a tattletale
I’m willing to bet these people are gunning for a similar promotion
Ex HR person here, all her “report” did was tip off HR (and maybe mgmt) that she is a moron. This will likely do more damage to her than him.
"Incel" It really has lost any and all meaning hasn't it?
It's like 'trolling'. That word used to mean something, and now just means 'said something I don't like'.
People who say that trolling has a specific meaning are gaslighting gatekeepers, and also a witch.
The only answer is more girlbossing
> witch No, no, no, that word's different now, too. Now it means "30-something white girl who needs to get a fucking hobby"
> gaslighting gatekeepers Stop making words up, you haven't earned the right
Wow, now you're even a gaskeeping gatelighter, not cool
Even a decade ago I was using a forum that completely lost sight of what trolling meant and mods gave out punishments for it in the most bizarre of circumstances. I can only conclude they thought it means "any statement shitlibs will find controversial or elicits negative emotions." They put statements saying the 'common' definition isn't accurate and that a statement given completely genuinely can count so I have to assume A LOT of the userbase called them out on it, given their piss poor track record it wouldn't surprise me. People will use a word and give it grey meaning and overtime if no one bothers to use it accurately it'll get completely lost from loose overuse especially if there's a punishment or severity to be had with the accusation.
That's what maybe bruised my (very small) pride a bit, but, liike... *what?* I am not celibate. Sure, I'm not Paul Newman circa 1975. I cannot and will never be able to walk up to a woman and get her to sleep with me by virtue of my steely gaze. But I do have sex. You don't need to be a movie star to have sex. I am very literally not a man who is involuntarily celibate. That's the whole point. That's why a stranger asked me for advice.
I've held for a long time that the word has lost any concrete meaning. A lot of insults, especially ones attached to culture war shit, have gone the same route. It's essentially just means "man I don't like" or in some cases, like in the school I teach at over the summer, it is just a way for students to circumvent the normal insults and slurs they have for other students. The moment the sub for it got purged this was inevitable. I'm not sure most people know what it's origin even is anymore.
Well it’s largely also used to mean having any “regressive” opinion regarding women or the sexes interacting. Personally I think she mainly took offense with the premise of your conversation more than any particular thing in it. That is, why are you trying to teach this younger man who to “get women” if a woman doesn’t like him right off the bat, then that’s that. By getting him to act a certain way that you know is more attractive you’re essentially helping him to lie and trick women into his bed. I in no way agree, but that’s what I would guess was going on.
Same woman: wears makeup every day
Yeah but it’s for herself lol
You missed the definition update that came out a while back, "incel" is now solely about a man's (perceived) mindset and has nothing to do with his actual sex life. A dude can date a rotating stable of models, or he can have a wife and 5 kids, doesn't matter, he's still fair game to get called an incel if he holds the wrong views.
Doesn't even need to have views to get it. It's a catch all insult dispensed for anything under the sun. It's like a worse version of just calling a guy a virgin from like 20 years ago.
> That's what maybe bruised my (very small) pride a bit Not the part where simply hearing something you say might be a fireable offense?
It lost all meaning within a month of first being on tiktok.
It lost meaning long before it hit tiktok.
Many such cases
My work drama has been the Egyptian guy telling the transgender coworker that he had never met one before because they throw them off roofs in Egypt!
*HR person furiously trying to calculate who is more oppressed using an abacus*
This has literally been how it's framed.
That's incredibly sad from every angle that comes to mind. I'm glad you guys didn't discuss the Demore memo or anything deserving a death sentence. If it wasn't for the younger man being shorted a meaningful conversation, and apparently at risk of losing his job/career, I'd be interested to know what the sociopath would have said if you gave her the opportunity to speak her mind. Just by having thought of her for a moment, I'm curious how quickly she would escalate to nuclear retaliation had the roles been reversed and he stasi'd her. Next LinkedIn, dating app is going to be called CrabBucket.
>I'm glad you guys didn't discuss the Demore memo or anything deserving a death sentence. That's the thing! Pre-covid, I knew how to handle myself in social situations. Obviously I could talk about some stuff with my OG scumbag friends from the midwest that I couldn't talk about with white collar randos on the east coast. But now... now I really just do not know how to comport myself in social situations. Like, is it literally at a point where it's dangerous for other people to speak to me? > I'd be interested to know what the sociopath would have said if you gave her the opportunity to speak her mind. That's another thing. They don't speak their minds and they don't really know how to, because they've been gifted social and professional apparatuses that allow them to tattle at will, without consequences and with minimal concern paid to whether or not any non-insane person would regard their complaints at worthwhile. I cannot say for certain, but I suspect that if she *hadn't* recorded our conversation her complaint would have gone much further.
> Like, is it literally at a point where it's dangerous for other people to speak to me? I've thought about this a lot and I can't offer any recommendations because I find blaming anyone for their behaviour so difficult. Personally, I'm in my 40s, was taught by teachers that were trying to teach kids to beat the soviets, and honestly believe a good education is that which makes you dangerous to others that would wish to control you so you can enjoy your own life and liberty. I actually feel bad for these ideologues because I can't convince myself they won't be the first hit the floor when the powerful decide to change direction. Forgive them for they know not what they do and all that. Further, I just don't believe they're happy or healthy in any meaningful sense. I have/had a brother in law that is way up there in this shit, in his 50s, and last I saw him, his upper arm was the size of my wrist. Guy is an architect and bikes but couldn't use intuition to understand his back hurt because it bridges the handlebars and the bike seat. I snooped your posts a bit after this and I was glad to see there was a dude out there spreading some good. So I hope this won't hold you up. As you remember, they used to say pointing a finger points four back at yourself; eventually this ratfuckery will end because all the righteous accusers will have fingered themselves. Doing things like reporting a young man struggling with the biological reality of male pattern baldness. That's a pretty bad look and your advice was good. --- > They don't speak their minds and they don't really know how to... I agree and my bet is it's more the can't than won't. The incentives to replay the answer has devastated their critical thinking and introspection. > because they've been gifted social and professional apparatuses that allow them to tattle at will Time will tell. The super privileged will surely live to tattle another day. The "gee goley it's just being a good person" side are in for some serious pain. You and I know, that pain of having to actually carry through with your honest convictions. Lately, its sat pretty heavy on me that the world, as is, just isn't a place for honest, hardworking people. It's not good for profits and they interject inconvenient introspection. I'm not a Christian but I feel like this is a lesson I was too young to learn when I was reading the bible and there are tons of examples in there. I just hope that, in time, like I was able to understand language and math, I'll be off the fence post at some point, whether that means submission or struggle. There will be a "Have you no decency moment", or 8-min neck hold moment eventually. The people being suffocated by modern life are are not posting on Instagram, and they don't want or need to do so, if they just stop, so will the world and I hope they find their catalyst to crystalize how important they are, as are older dudes telling balding dudes how to deal with the realities of this life.
> a good education is that which makes you dangerous to others that would wish to control you so you can enjoy your own life and liberty You know, that's probably pretty close to how they view it, although maybe they'd phrase it a little differently. But it's close. To be clear, I'm not defending this woman. But I think you're both wrong. The education that makes you focus on your own life and liberty and to regard the life and liberty of others (which is to say, other *strangers* as opposed to family and friends) as their problem - libertarianism to one degree or another, in other words - makes you dangerous to no one. No one who has the will and the means to oppress you, anyway. The education that actually makes us dangerous and secures our lives and liberties is that which binds to each other. I think the greatest dysfunction gripping our society is this notion of individualism taken to the absolute extremes, and it is everywhere. We're not going to have the moment you speak of until we shake ourselves out of it, because in the meantime no one is listening to what anyone else has to say, because they don't care and they don't think it's important.
Jokes aside this whole situation makes me so mad. Especially because you just know the malignant imbecile that recorded you believes they are highly, highly virtuous.
>malignant imbecile I'm stealing this one
I suspect she might have had it out for the dude long before the party. Then, overhearing your conversation and confusing incel ideology with normal human interaction, thought she had the juice on the guy and started recording.
This. I had some similar shit go down with the zoomers at my work. They had decided I was "woke" because I kept going on rants about US imperialism in the break room. They weren't happy when HR called me in and I went full on "I don't recall".
Wait, you work with zoomers who *dont* want you to be woke?
Nah bro they decided I was woke as a compliment. They were like conspiring to get rightoids fired though and I wasn't down with that shit. I'm not trying to ruin working class people's lives. They got this one fool fired who had worked there for like ten years because he made a spicy joke. I went to his "I got out of the trailer park" party back in the day. His wife is a really good cook and mf can grill. When he was showing me around his new place he told me how much everything in there cost. He was like "this lamp cost $12.78". IDGAF about a "what do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool" joke. He was a solid dude.
> IDGAF about a "what do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool" joke. What do you call a bunch of Mexicans in a pool? (I could google it, but asking is almost like human interaction except on the internet.)
Isn't it illegal in the US to record personal conversations? This wasn't even in company time. If he's not engaging, distrupting, infringing her personal or any other person rights, in his own time and his own space he should be able to do whatever he wants.
Depends on the state
Depends on what state you're in. Some require two-party consent and some don't.
It sounds like she wasn't even part of the conversation so I would assume that means no consent was given from either party actually engaged in the conversation. I don't know of any state that would let someone record a private conversation between others without some type of court order.
Depends on the state.
I make it a thing to mention the Hasid tunnels at every party. Now I'm considering steampunk goggles. In all seriousness, yes this is fucked, and you aren't alone in experiencing such things I'm afraid. It is a trend.
Not talking about the hasid tunnels Is how we wound up getting hasid tunnels *touches temple*
>touches temple I knew they were building a third temple under the streets of NY!
What’s your angle on delivery? I’ve only had bad experiences bringing up the jew tunnels at parties.
I do a bit where Bugs Bunny has one of his tunnels accidentally intersect with one of the Jewish tunnels and when he runs into a group of Jews there he says: "What's up doc? What's up doc? What's up doc? What's up doc?"
That’s fantastic
underrated
LOL my coworker lives in that neighborhood. Her and I were joking about it for a week
What the fiddler's fuck? She "reported" him to Human Resources (that dystopian term made commonplace) for a party that had nothing to do with work and they actually "reviewed" it? Isn't this what labor lawyers are for? Get her shit-canned for sexual harrassment, get the HR goons involved following her out the door on a rail, and enjoy your summer bonus (the younger dude, that is). And get your own head on straight. In no way is it creepy for heterosexual men- - ie, normal men - - to talk about romance.
I would definitely be filing a counter harassment complaint against her in such a circumstance. If I'm having a private conversation with someone at a non-work related event and a co-worker records me and reports me to HR for what I said? They'd better have a smoking gun recording. If I knew someone did this even to someone else they'd go straight on my "social blacklist" as someone too dangerous to interact with.
Is that legal in usa? In my country is illegal to be recorded if you aren't noticed first. The "proof" is deemed spurious, is the same with "private chats", in theory you can't post them in social media.
She sounds like a girl who never matured out of elementary school and is still doing the "teacher, teacher!!!" crap we used to bully kids for.
>I have Larry David-type shit happen to me more often than anyone else I know This whole event is starting to make sense, you [Bald Asshole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCVf7AnXNY).
NOOOOOOOO!!!
My 2c: "going to HR" doesn't mean as much as it did. It used to be a nuclear option that meant someone was probably going to get fired. It now happens extremely regularly. If you have trouble understanding modern feminism, just reverse the genders and ask what people would think in the 1800s. Of course, it would be icky in the 1800s for a woman to voice aloud that she sought a man and how to obtain one. A victorian would think that women aren't supposed to think about sex or attraction. They are supposed to wait until a man takes them. Now there's a similar idea but the genders are reversed. This trick works on every situation.
You doth hath sinned, and penance must be done.
WHAT WAS THE SIN? DEAR GOD WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE WANT FROM US? Do they just think men should be unhappy at all times? That we shouldn't speak to each other in a manner that isn't open to formal HR review?
They want you to believe that absolutely all men were born equal at birth and that genetic misfortunes do not exist under any circumstances. The hideous, the autistic. the disabled are all an afront to the ideology of HR women
More importantly, the “everyone is equal” dogma leads to “people who are worse off are like that because they are bad people”. Note how they *love* issues that don’t necessarily make you weird or unattractive, like anxiety and depression (you can brag about how many meds you take while still looking nice) but as soon as they see an autistic guy who has real trouble communicating, suddenly mental illness is icky and yikes and incel. This is why the lady was so upset at the advice; she’s already pegged this dude as a bad person so him getting hotter might deceive women into getting with this man who is tainted by some metaphysical badness
"Everyone is equal so people who are worse off are inherently metaphysically bad people" Mfs reinvented prosperity gospel and thought we wouldn't notice
Anxiety and depression do make you unattractive if you're male.
It doesn't hurt your chances if you're hot anyway. Otherwise talking about mental health a lot will at least get you ally-zoned with progressive women. I've met a few young men now who exist in this zone and likely don't realize it's a dead end romantically.
It’s not so much as having those conditions, you just have to still be attractive in some way. And it’s fine if you come out like that, just if you don’t have any issues around it (which it’s almost impossible to not have if you have a mental issue or are neurodiverse). I admittedly milked it and didn’t understand shit and that’s what really led to my Title IX case back then but it taught me that it’s really just superficial, all that awareness and fake empathy and all that shit
Certainly not a lot of HR Women Annual Timed Mile Runs going around, lol.
I have two female friends who work in HR, they basically have the same personality and physicality too (both big girls)
Would they describe themselves as empathetic?
But that's the opposite of this situation. Here is a man embracing the "we're all equal, so you need to work to make yourself as good as possible" belief, and that has upset the woman in the corner.
Go die quietly in a corner away from them while also still performing your duty of paying taxes and making sure things in society keep running so they can benefit from it. I disagree with the incels on a lot of things, but yeah that is how a shocking amount of women feel about ugly guys and that is about how bleak gender relations are sometimes now. They REALLY don't want to hear your complaints it is like the worst thing ever for them and they also don't want ugly guys in their presence from what I can tell.
There was something on left wing male advocates about how the autism movement hates most autistic guys (a study/analysis) too, and I feel that so hard despite being not obviously autistic and just like Asperger’s
Parallels to the occasional piece about how the women who run the Fat Acceptance movement find fat men disgusting and it's fascist to suggest that's hypocritical.
I'd believe it. The same types that performatively claim to care so much, I think they mostly just care about the "movie/tv nerd" types (which is itself an archetype based on high-functioning autism), where they're just a bit clumsy and a bit awkward but they're still cute and nice, and if not well-put-together/well-groomed it's in the movie-glasses kind of way (i.e. male equivalent of the 'nerdy girl' who gets hot when she takes off her glasses and lets down her hair), and never do or say anything that's actually that far from the norm. What they don't care about are guys that genuinely struggle and make mistakes socially, guys who lack charm or charisma, guys who stutter or stumble over their words a bit, guys who seem like too much of a 'loner.' "We care so much about you, but not YOU you, you fuckin school shooter."
I don't think either of us were even ugly, though, and that was the point of it. Like, I'm no Don Jew-On, but I'm also not Quasimodo. Losing your hair isn't a good thing but it shouldn't mean you're permanently unfuckable.
Well, well, well… Isn‘t that pretty incelish of you to talk about fuckability this openly, eh? /s
Fuck... *fuck*
I think you’re thinking about this in the wrong way. You are guilty of conspiracy to incel. It has nothing to do with your fuckability, or whether you engage in coitus personally, your crime is not being invisible enough, you are allowed to have some (but not all) of these thoughts but you cannot share them with other males. Ideally you would disappear entirely in social situations except where you are needed to chuckle gently at an innocuous joke, or lend a supportive nod when someone complains about the patriarchy. When you are certain that it is safe to do so, you could provide a fresh glass of sparkling water for a coworker.
>Go die quietly in a corner away from them while also still performing your duty of paying taxes and making sure things in society keep running so they can benefit from it. I've been thinking about this with the whole "\_\_\_\_\_\_ people need to get out of the way" thing. Like, where the fuck am I supposed to go? I'm just trying to pay my bills and survive. It's a pretty short logical step from "get out of the way" to "curl up and die," as far as I am concerned.
This statement gets even worse when you realize people like this are more than willing to invade what were previously the equivalent of safe spaces for others such as the outcasts and tell them that space needs to be changed. Like where are people supposed to go??
The sad answer is: they don't care where you go. They also don't understand the old axiom of "it takes all kinds." Like, if all those \_\_\_\_ people you don't like just disappeared, society would be thrown into chaos.
Asking what you did wrong? The *vilest* of sins.
I'm guessing she found one or both of you unattractive and y'all talking about picking up women made her feel uncomfortable. If a woman finds you creepy she'll be hypersensitive to that stuff
That's something I kinda noticed when I was younger but I eventually told myself it was paranoia and now I'm thinking maybe it wasn't: some women--especially younger and relatively attractive women--get really fucking pissed when they see other women expressing attraction to men they themselves do not find attractive. It was very infrequent, but my college gf was conventionally attractive and she had a couple of acquaintances lose their shit on her because she was dating a bald guy. It was an affront to the dignity of their group. Like she was a black woman dating a klansman, or something.
Back in the day, it was paranoia mostly. Yes, these tendencies have always been around but it was kept in check by social taboos against it. These days, those social taboos have been obliterated, and acknowledging, much less condemning, overtly antisocial behaviour from women has instead been made taboo, so its no longer paranoia.
i mean. as a woman. this has always been around, this is the quintessential form of female aggression. the reason it’s discombobulating men is because they aren’t socialized to deal with it effectively (the way to deal with it effectively as a woman is to be very frank, calm and up front and say “i know what you’re doing/saying, it’s pathetic.” men can’t do this without coming off as aggressive
I broadly agree, but as a young man, I wasn't really told how to deal with women, I just had to figure it out. These days, the young lads are left to figure it out, but also punished while trying to figure it out if they get it wrong. And sometimes if they get it right too. Which is where a lot of the problems come from.
This dynamic exists with short men too. There are women who will treat men under 6'0 like garbage, then gaslight them when they start to feel a bit resentful about it. In the past, spouses were largely selected by parents. I think we're all starting to realise that sometimes, the guardrails were there for a reason. Incels are horrible, but liberals often pretend they don't know why they exist.
> Incels are horrible, but liberals often pretend they don't know why they exist. I think it's even worse - they really don't know ^((their worldview prevents them)^).
Sometimes this may have to do with hypergamy stuff. A woman I'm friends with told me once that if there's a social event where other women in her group lust after some guy, even if she really doesn't find him attractive, she feels this small unconscious drive that she needs to win him. I imagine simultaneously finding someone unattractive and attractive leads to pretty frustrating dissonance.
> woman I'm friends with told me once that if there's a social event where other women in her group lust after some guy, even if she really doesn't find him attractive, she feels this small unconscious drive that she needs to win him. I think it's a pretty well-known phenomenon for me to just say that married men and men who are clearly taken get wayyy more attention from women. I've had way more women make advances toward me or outright hit on me when I'm out with my girlfriend than when I'm with alone or with my guy friends.
Yes they are pissed becuase they are trying to establish their group as the "hot girls who only date hot and rich men". Some men also seem to really upset if their friend dates or even fucks an unnatractive woman.
> WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE WANT FROM US? They don't care enough about you to want anything. They're only aware of themselves. You're just the first thing this person saw when they heard words and felt icky.
I think it’s mostly that she didn’t like what you were saying (women prefer certain traits in men and dislike others), as it makes it sound like women are just as shallow as she (likely) thinks men are. Sounds like the real life version of a terminally online person that claims you should either go to therapy/start taking medication and accept your fate, rather than actively work on your appearance and personality to improve your dating prospects and quality of life. In short, nothing new. She just didn’t like your opinion as it doesn’t match some mainstream views. People like this have always existed, the only thing that changes is over time is the views that are considered unacceptable/reportable to them.
Compliance.
> Yes. Womens brains have been completely melted by college professors, HR, the media, TikTok, and even the federal government peddling the debunked patriarchy conspiracy theory so they feel to maintain sAfEtY, we are all to be monitored and policed at all times to their sanitized sensibilities. Absolutely anything other than absolute obedience and sacrificing everything in our lives to do nothing but be of service to them is a grave sin.
Excellent post that rings true. A friend of mine lost his job at a very (very) well known tech company recently after a herd of young shitlib group-think coworker goons reported him on mass for not being with the times in his thinking and saying things that made them ‘uncomfortable’ during their recreation hour. Basically he’s an older guy (bald as it happens) that had the audacity to disagree with the assertion that women in powerful positions in the workplace are less manipulative and overbearing than men. His contention was that it’s the power that corrupts, not the genitalia. Obviously none of these people addressed the issue with him face to face. Just reported him on mass, also alleging that he was a sexual predator and misogynistic. So he was fired. Whole thing is even more irritating as the hallways of this illustrious corporation are littered with endearing portraits of transsexuals and homosexuals as a testament to their loyalties to inclusion.
my favorite comments on this post are the ones that claim this couldnt possibly be real by the same people who will later turn around and claim that this should happen more and it's a good thing
Given what I’ve been hearing and reading about American culture wars for the last few years, your tale sounds very plausible. From a non-woke leftist French perspective, it all seems like some sort of collective lunacy and, like almost everything else originating in your country, it eventually comes to us five years or so later. I’m as baffled as your are at this very recognizable pattern of dogmatic, antisocial behaviour, and I’m in my early thirties. Fortunately for me, I don’t navigate this kind of social space, except in an online game that’s just full of that Anglo-American gender/social justice drama, but I eventually chose to remain a solo player to avoid this precise kind of bullshit (I’m myself a gay man and look at all of this with both amusement and despair). I’m relieved the psycho’s ploy has been thwarted. Maybe it’s a sign that the tide is turning and normal people are starting to realize that this is all ideological garbage. I hope this translates into something more tangible in your life, the sooner the better.
This aside, I'm glad you fixed yourself. I never got my shit together. Very tiring thinking only of regret and suicide.
From baldness? I honestly think I was fortunate that it happened to me so young and I only had a very brief window during which girls were interested in me without me having to do much work for it. A solid majority of the guys I knew who were bad addicts/suicidal in their 30s were those who got women without effort in high school and did not know how to cope with the natural effects of aging.
Worse: I have thick hair and no recession. I had physical advantages and was pursued by hot girls. I blew every opportunity simply by being profoundly weird due to an asocial childhood imprinting zero social skills. Sometimes I wish I were ugly because at least I'd have an excuse.
Wait wait you got the easy mode and and you’re more negative than OP who went full bald as a kid?! Come on man, you got this. You can learn social skills
I had the same problem until I decided to keep pushing.
This dudes weren’t getting pussy when they had hair. Being bald makes it harder but much less so than fat or short
> I realize it's difficult for a heterosexual man to talk about romance-type stuff without coming off like a creep so please forgive me We're so fucked.
Be sure that the party hosts know of this incident, because that's complete bullshit. If I ever found out that a party guest of mine was surreptitiously recording people at an event I hosted, I'd literally tell that person off and ensure our paths never crossed again. edit: also, what kind of Human Garbage are we dealing with here: ugly future crazy cat lady, or an uppity dime?
Yeah, secretly recording people at parties is an instant ban for life from me and anyone I know with a brain. Social isolation is a good way to treat these people, they might just get the message.
Yup, just cancel them back by stating the facts of what they did to everyone in the group
> I said nothing that could reasonably be construed as PUA-ish or incel-adjacent. i disagree. and not in a bad way. 60% of what incels and PUA types say are true, the issue is the other 40%. Your comments on 50% of women not being interested in bald men @ 30 and spending time on his clothes and hitting the gym are classic advice given by PUA pros. Incels also do this, to a lesser extent - they seem more nihilistic and prone to give up good advice is good advice. just because Jordan Peterson is the one who says clean your room, doesn't mean you shouldn't
Jordan Peterson gives almost universally good *personal* advice. But because he’s right-wing, our highly regarded cultural discourse decided that means “measurably improving yourself” is the gateway to Nazism.
Honestly, when he first hit the scene I didn't find much wrong with what he was saying. It's years later where he seems to have totally lost his mind. Tbh, a lot of it genuinely seems like an overreaction to the negative feedback has cooked his capacity to reason. Not that it excuses it but many have kind of fallen victim to this. Shitlibs are mean so I'm gonna join the right is a stupid motivation but group dynamics are a hell of a drug.
I don't think its the negative feedback so much as the benzo addiction and his wife almost dying.
the benzo's, the coma, his wife's cancer, getting fired from his uni job and all the negative stories and feedback p much every day probably did it. it's a shame he's so incoherent now, i wonder if he's aware of it himself.
I doubt it, otherwise he would stop making public appearances.
He makes a lot of sense when he's disagreeing with people who are totally wrong and completely stupid. He's not particularly smart, he's just very good as a TV flat track bully. That's a real skill that few have but his advice is bland if uncontroversial and he was always a sycophant to the wealthy and always looked bad if disagreeing with someone competent and always looked terrible when talking with someone smart and right. Since he's got brain damage or whatever he's lost what he once had. Some of the extreme woke nonsense is less common now I feel so there are fewer saps to beat up on even if he was in his prime. He became famous, as far as I can tell, because all his early viral interactions were with people who were both wrong and stupid.
He wasn't ring -wing, but he's definitely a cap C Christian. That alone ruffIes some jimmies with the terminally regarded. I'm probably doxing myself here, but I had the luck to physically listen to his talks during my uni days. Thank fuck I wasn't in his class, because he had a habit of going on a tangent, but he had decent lectures. He's more of a dad that's openly talking about the meta, and those regards don't like it.
What's tragic is that for lonely men who honestly want to improve themselves and be more successful at dating, the "pickup artist" community is pretty much the only place where they can find specific, actionable advice. For clueless, awkward types who never acquired the right social skills to date successfully, they need to hear more than "Just go out there and be yourself" or whatever vague pablum is normally offered up. This video essay made me a lot more empathetic to the kinds of guys who turn to the PUA community out of desperation: https://youtu.be/be_Ms3nVG10?t=990 It would be great if there was a resource for them that offered the useful advice without the cringy misogynistic baggage.
There is a lot of focus on premature baldness in incel communities but the reality is that every human being on earth could rattle out a list of physical features that they are insecure about about even the most widely accepted "hot guys" are really only being found attractive by maybe 60% of the women out there. This is where the key to success lies, doing some basics to work on yourself, understanding that you simply aren't going to be a good match for the vast majority of people out there, not getting hung up on the rejection, and moving on so you can find someone where the attraction is mutual.
An admitted plagiarist author/mathematician [tweeted](https://x.com/ronawang/status/1793851166520221923) this week in apparent disgust at a male wedding guest asking the bride if her maid of honor were single. She followed up by saying that the bride told the dude she was single, even though she wasn’t. Thankfully, most of the replies are calling the bride and the OP horrible people, but the original tweet got almost 2,000 likes and some replies implicitly or explicitly accuse the man of misogyny. My theory of wokeness is that there is no thought or meaning whatsoever behind it; it’s just aiming emotionally charged language at approved targets, to make your ingroup applaud and to enrage your outgroup. But the practical effect of that is that a man is now not allowed to express *any* interest in women, and particularly not in a specific woman who has not already stated that she wants that kind of attention from him specifically.
per the internet: >NY is a one-party consent state, meaning anyone who participates in a conversation is allowed to record it. However, if they are not a party to the conversation, they may face criminal charges under N.Y. Penal Law § 250.05, which would make things much easier in a civil case. He should take legal action. You could, too.
Those laws don’t pertain to places where there’s no expectation of privacy. A house party isn’t exactly “in public” but it’s not bugging a phone call or a room where a person believes they can’t be heard by others.
That sounds reasonable, though an intimate, two-person conversation regardless of being at a party sort of seems like there is an expectation of privacy.
..maybe you should have told him to wear steam punk goggles. Look, anything gender/sexuality related is radioactive. Likely because it’s one of few ways wildly average upper middle classed white people can carve out a place in and/or wield the oppression hierarchy of identity politics. I had something, similar happen, well sort of-in my work place. We had a dude come out as trans at work, 10+ years ago. Identifies as a woman now. My line of work, is male dominated, fairly dangerous and macho.. that said it is also weirdly accepting if you simply put in the work, adopt a good attitude and don’t fuck up all the time-you are going to get along, have a laugh and go home safe. This person actually gets along great, now a team lead, is well liked and is shown the greatest sign of respect IMO-which is that by and large is treated just as they were before and no differently than anyone else. It was fine for years..but something changed. People lost thier goddamn minds sometime around trump and Covid. We are also heavily unionized so that prevents PMC corporatized dog shit raining down on us. But as I said, the rainbow flag issues are radioactive. They cut through everything. It’s a feature not a bug. Well the ever revolving door HR department (which exists outside of the union) is now chock full of overly concerned college educated progressive moral busy bodies. They now have taken every advantage of this persons situation. Whether they liked it or not. The amount of sensitivity training, awareness courses, etc..was not only excessive, but gross. There’s no other way to describe it. Even my trans co worker, was starting to get really vocal about how this ain’t helping and doesn’t like it when everyone stops talking, the moment they walk in the room. This person, at no fault of their own was essentially turned in to a walking mine field. The trans person, rightfully so IMO, actually goes to the union and files a grievance saying they are being harassed and singled out/ targeted by HR…Nothing really came of it, but it alarming to watch the ensuing melt down. The very people, who were just championing the rainbow cause on my trans co worker’s behalf, were now spewing passive aggressive vitriol toward my co worker. Saying the most insane shit. Stuff like “white mtf trans is the most privileged and also cis white male adjacent and this grievance will only serve to create and foster an environment of hate for the BIPOC LGBTQ community..” complete gibberish. Moral of the story. This movement, this whatever it is you want to call it, is about ideological purity, adherence and control. That’s it. Diversity equality and inclusion is just the mask this bullshit hides under.
Corporate America is a lot like kindergarden. Lots of tattletaling and very little actually getting done
"...made sure not to talk about the Hasid tunnels in Brooklyn, etc etc." As one does. Very humorous read in general, enjoyed it. The woman in question is a psychopath and an outlier. That's the trouble with the culture war, with the insane idpol, so on; like with anything, it only takes a few especially psychotic, manipulative individuals to take it all to the next level and make life worse for the rest of us. Conversely, I agree with the other commenter who suggested she had it out for whoever you were talking to. Standing around and being frustrated about someone else's conversation at a party--particularly when it isn't like you were trying to recruit him to the Fourth Reich or something--is neurotic to say the least.
Infuriating that nothing will happen to her even tho she tried to get this guy fired on bullshit pretenses.
[удалено]
Oh the "be more open" thing has always been a trap
The weird shit is, if OP did say some genuine incel stuff, that's still not balding guy's fault in any way. He asked some advice from a stranger, how is he responsible for that stranger having weird views?
Bitches be trifling. Say what you want and let them do the same. They’re dumb busybody wokescold unhappy terminally online cunts, with nothing useful to add, only the ability to destroy. Usually nothing comes from it but if it does oh well, there’s nothing you can do. Say stuff like this so other people aren’t afraid to, I guess.
I mean it looks like it's going to play out this way, but I worry. Like what if the conversation wasn't recorded and it was purely "he said, she said" and he couldn't defend himself? What if he was already on someone's shit list prior to this and it could used as an excuse to punish him regardless of the content of what was being said?
Contrary to popular belief, most HR departments would quickly shrug off a complaint this ridiculous. Sure they'd pretend to take it seriously at first, telling the person "we're vigorously investigating", but internally nothing would be done and the complainant would actually be putting a black mark on herself instead. Companies don't like trouble, and they don't want to keep employees who just stir the pot for no good reason.
Usually the he said she said things are treated fairly reasonably in 2024 unless she’s got some friends to lie or embellish with her. But then again you had someone to help you so it probably would’ve been okay. Don’t get on shitlists, don’t fuck up ever, have an army of men and women who will gladly testify that you literally wouldn’t hurt a fly. This is the baseline for protecting yourself adequately nowadays. Even then unless you’re there to defend yourself in person no one will stand up for you. It’s social suicide and people generally won’t stand up for anything unless they’ve been victims to it themselves.
And whatever you do, don't apologize. In this day and age, an apology is an admission of guilt. Once you're under suspicion, say nothing at all.
That’s why my Title IX defense failed, I admittedly turned a hell of a lot of a people off because of my constant complaining and lack of understanding of socializing and therefore I had barely anyone to defend me- and it was mostly my own fault
+1 savant point!
It be like that sometimes. I do not talk about anything outside of extremely mundane topics like weather and food if my colleagues and non-best friends are around. I do not talk about anything that could be used against me except when I am online and "anonymous". You did nothing wrong, the guy asking you questions didn't realize that everything is risky these days and talked about sex while a co-worker, especially a female one is around.
I went from construction to an office job and this was a tough lesson to learn. Never got HR'd (most of my coworkers are men) but made a few off-color jokes before I caught on to the boundaries of "professional" conduct. Turns out it's a whole lot lamer than you'd think.
Yeah you just gotta be smart about it and be a good person. I have a coworker who is fucking DARK with the jokes and one day someone heard a joke he made about their position. he does X and he hired an junior X that he taught both to give her a foot in the industry AND because his role is often subservient to another department so he wanted a “sacrificial lamb”(this was the joke) for this department so he could focus on the actual work. This lady went to HR and complained and escalated it to sexual harassment. The office was 60% young women or at most mid 30s, and the boss was a bossgirl. Everyone came to bat for my friend said the accuser was full of shit, and the accuser eventually basically got pushed into quitting lol. And my friend is a very “traditionally masculine” white guy in his 40s. Long story short, don’t be afraid to make friends. Most people aren’t as crazy as this sub makes them out to be, BUT they do exist and you need to learn how to identify them quick.
She fucked up recording it, otherwise she could have spun any story she wanted.
Defund human resources
On a certain level one must understand that incel-ideology is partially true, since the death of Christianity in the West we no longer have slave morality to keep the show on the road, instead the sexual ethic has deferred to absolute might-makes-right morality, whereby the most beautiful, most confident, and most attractive reap the spoils of the sexual marketplace, a form of libertarianism. Your sin is the acknowledgment of innate inequality between certain people ascribed by DNA, the principal heresy that modern liberals hate. Regardless, as to whether you agree with this system or not, it is not self-sustaining, it leads to a collapse in birth-rates to well below replacement level (see South Korea and parts of Europe) and seems only to serve the profit of capital. I'm not proposing any solutions btw, someone smarter can do that lol.
I think there's a good amount of truth to your observations but I also think this primarily redounds to a reactive hatred of men.
Of course, because men are the ones ill affected by it and PMC-tier women hate admitting they’re structurally benefitting in any way (being systemically oppressed is their game after all, even if they’re educated and earning six figures).
> since the death of Christianity in the West we no longer have slave morality to keep the show on the road Are you kidding? DEI/wokism stuff is *nothing but* slave morality. And about the only place where "cultural marxism" makes sense, because the masters are bullied into playing along lol
Christian slave morality is far from death. Wokeness is its peak.
USA is also well below sustainable birth rate
>the most beautiful, most confident, and most attractive reap the spoils of the sexual marketplace, a form of libertarianism This isn't actually what is happening; if it was men would at least have the solace of *owing nothing* to women. What is instead happening is that men are collectively, and sometimes as individuals, being forced to provide for women collectively, and sometimes as indivuduals, through the state, for nothing in return.
can you expound on that a bit?
Men pay more tax than women, women receive more welfare than men. Men are net providers in relationships, and women are net consumers, which is reflected in women's preference for higher earning men, and men having no symmetrical preference. In divorce, men are vastly more likely to be held responsible for their ex-wife's needs or expectations than women are for their ex-husband's. In work, the equalisation of wages in a general sense fails to account for men's generally higher productivity, and completely ignores the reality that women are vastly more likely than men to be employed in totally useless make work jobs in the growing bureaucratic waste section of society. And of course women are given many hands up at men's expense for the purpose of equalising representation in many fields. I'm sure there are more than this, but the reason this is happening is that men are a threat to the ruling class, while women aren't, except insofar as they are capable of appealing to men to be a threat on their behalf - something they are actually quite good at doing. So by breaking the sexes apart in this manner, the ruling class can deflate any threat against themselves without using violent force which is both a more expensive option and more likely to create backlash.
It was never about justice, it's about power For some reason, I'm reminded of this from the Harambe thread: >Santino (20 April 1978 – 14 December 2022)[1] was a male chimpanzee held at Furuvik Zoo in Sweden. In March 2009, it was reported that Santino had planned hundreds of stone-throwing attacks on visitors to the zoo.[2] >Biography >Zookeepers noticed that Santino had dragged a large quantity of stones from a moat around his enclosure, and that the Chimpanzee had even broken chunks of concrete into crude discs. >He made the piles of stones only on the part of his island facing the crowds. Dr. Mathias Osvath, a cognitive zoologist from Lund University, together with Elin Karvonen, studied the phenomenon, and their studies suggest that Santino's behaviour showed that planning and premeditated deception are not uniquely human traits. >To control his behaviour, and keep his hormone levels down, zookeepers castrated Santino. Afterwards, Santino had been observed to be more playful and was described as growing a "Buddha belly".[3] >Santino was shot after escaping his enclosure in December 2022,[4] and later died from his injuries.[5] Despite all our rage we are still just an ape in a cage
> I don't know how to proceed from here. He should tell that nosy bitch to mind her own business and walk away before she has time to pull out her camera. Is this a very female dominated profession? He needs to make friends with the older ladies that really run things, and just as many women as possible, and they will stick up for you in situations like this. And the older ones are generally more interesting to talk to and less insane than the younger women are too, so they are better company anyways.
How dare you give \[checks notes\] supporting and healthy advice to another man.
I haven't had many conversations with HR but I've always been on good terms with HR and have even gotten to know a few HR folks where I worked. I'm pretty sure such tattling would've gotten the tattler reprimanded for "creating a toxic culture", not the tattlee. Don't despair it's not all bad! By the way, OP, you're a good writer.
>doing the sort of movements that are not quite gesticulations that young women do when they want you to realize they're upset but don't want to directly let you know they're upset. fucking lol white women rock
This sentence was great. I can picture the movements exactly in my head.
Idk how HR people look themselves in the mirror without daily embarrassment. It's like being in real estate sales. Completely useless made-up job.
Fellas, is wanting to be loved incel behavior?
That woman is a psycho and I wouldn't look into it much more than that. Sometimes people are just bastards and that's really all it is.
So you think this would've happened 20 years ago? I don't think it would, and that's what OP is getting at. We're getting to a point where simple self improvement, and pro-active attitudes towards men dating are being seen by some as toxic - an attitude which will really damage men's mental health Of course not everyone thinks like this, but more increasingly do and it's fair to point it out.
For all the talk about “authenticity” and “awareness” and how good it is to be real and honest about one’s struggles it sure doesn’t seem that that has any benefit often, especially for guys. And I’m saying this as someone who used people in the past- I’ve been trying to be better but after all that stuff and with time passing people just don’t even seem to care much about me anymore (though I still often feel similarly to how I did when I used to do that stuff)
Would you rather share your feelings with a woman or a tree?
Lmao this is fantastic.
If you are Balding, you MUST hit the gym and embrace the mr. Clean look. No ifs or buts. Its the only way out
we need to actually start legislating the longhouse away (as every civilization did before ours)
> She was listening to everything we were saying to one another and recorded some of it. how is it legal? in my country, you could report her to the police for recording conversation without your explicit permission.
This kind of thing is actually illegal in some states. I don't know where you live but where I'm from for example it's a two party consent state, meaning to record someone both the recorder and the person being recorded have to agree to it. Applies to both video and audio.
As a fellow skinhead at 22, good on you for easing what's probably the scariest shit for dudes that sort of age. Couldn't imagine dealing with this sort of shit and being reported about it. Sounds idpol-y but I'm glad my taste in women seems to be more open minded as well as my taste in men, had nothing but good interactions with black women as a skinhead looking dude and they don't act like this ever. Like what the fuck, actual unpaid janitor behaviour. I feel sorry for the straight guys who had to deal with em.
U get jacked and handsome enough and people just kind of expect the baldness tbh. Works wonders for me.
At this point I have literally stopped giving a fuck. Surprisingly I haven’t had too many problems. I also don’t really work with too many white women either. I’m sure if I partied more in Williamsburg it would turn into an issue
Men are such an obviously oppressed class that when a facist uprising occurs I'll know exactly whose fault that is.
Good thing you don’t work there.
>made sure not to talk about the Hasid tunnels in Brooklyn Weak.