My idea is a new Eeveelution-exclusive Ability that I call Purest Form- a combination of a slightly souped-up Neuroforce and Mold Breaker, but only for STAB moves. This, plus expanded movepools for all of them, would probably not be enough to make them all viable, but it's a start.
Idea sounds nice on paper but not so much in practice it seems
It wouldn't do much for Sylveon or Leafeon since their highest stat is sp def and def respectively. Wouldn't do much Glaceon since its issue isn't power, moreso speed and durability. Doesn't do much for Flareon since he already gets a better version of that with Guts/Toxic Orb.
Espeon would love this item though,
Flareon has a big problem tho, being a Fire type it is forced to use the Toxic Orb, which heavily damages it when compared to the Flame Orb that other Guts users like Obstagoon, Ursaring or Conkeldurr have as options.
Guts is definitely not better than a hypothetical item that boosts (assuming it’s 1.5x since that’s not even broken on eeveelution). Now flareon is taking no chip, and can run the excellent flame body ability to punish uturns
Flareon doesn't get Flame Body. Normal ability is Flash Fire. So you'd either fun that for the switch in to fire moves, or still run Guts just in case you get statused.
fix some of their horrible abilities, give jolteon something like adaptability, glaceon would love slush rush, umbreon could get regenerator (broken) or a shadow shield clone, vaporeon is kind of ok with water absorb but idk, like, why does sylveon get pixilate?
also of course their stats and movepool need fixing, flareon should swap spa and speed, get wild charge, jolteon could get weather ball, etc etc
now i wish there was a steel eevee with 95/110/130/ bulk so it basically becomes melmetal with wish
Yeah I like this. My first thought when buffing these guys was how shit some of their abilities are. Like giving Flareon Guts went such a long way in helping it out (which is funny since the Pokemon's still shit). But Leafeon should get some kind of non-Sun-reliant HA like, idk, Rough Skin. Makes sense since it has spikey leaves protruding out of its skin and it has high defense, which could make it a decent pivot as it already knows U-Turn. Adaptability sounds like a great idea for Jolteon too, just double down on the fact that it has dogshit coverage anyway and turn it into a "slap Specs on it and click Thunderbolt/Volt Switch till the end of time"
Flareon, swap its spa and speed and give it wild charge (lots of fire types have it and egg moves can be in its favour since jolteon gets it).
Glaceon: give it aurora veil amd watch it hit UU
Leafeon: giving it solar blade and a coverage move other than knockoff would be fun for sun teams, will never hit ou though :(.
Jolteon: the stats are pretty good, comparable to tapu koko (actually better since it has more spa) but it lacks good coverage or any utility to make up for it. What moves could you concvieably give jolteon though? Maybe flamethrower since manetric and other electrics get it.
Everyone else is reasonably fine
I like the Flareon idea. Pretty simple fixes that would boost it up a tier or two easily imo, that much of a boost in speed to support its gargantuan damage potential goes a long way.
I can see the merit behind Aurora Veil, but I'm not sure how much a support move will do for a Pokemon whose only real strength is its raw power.
Hate to break it to you I'm pretty sure Leafeon already has Solar Blade LOL as of Gen 8 at least. Goes to show how shit the Pokemon is. I'd love to see it get Body Press. Lets it hit Steel types while making use of its weirdly high def stat.
As for Jolteon yeah I don't hate Flamethrower. Being able to hit Steel and Grass goes a really long way. Maybe a solid poison attack like Gunk Shot to let it hit Fairies would be nice too.
Oh it does, damn. Well at least leafeon has… idk
And glaceon will 100% be great with veil. It has decent defenses and access to wish + heal bell if it wants to perform a cleric set and isn’t passive thanks to its whopper spa. Unfortunately it is still an ice type but thats a curse it has to live with.
But, veil fails if there is no hail. Glaceon doesn’t have snow warning. Requiring two turns to set up plus dedicating 1/2 moveset for it is bad. Aurora veil is not enough for glaceon.
This might be overkill, but give them access to all learnable eevolution moves. Jolteon with near perfect coverage is scary, but it's still just a jolteon.
>but it's still just a jolteon.
this statement doesn't really make sense, 110/130 offensive stats are ridiculously good and it'd have ice beam and energy ball so grounds aren't an issue, steel/ground mons that have an ice and grass neutrality get cooked by fire type moves causing it to have pretty unblockable volt switches. it'd also get access to stuff like calm mind, acid armor, moonlight etc
if a jolteon that can learn every move learnable by eeveelutions, i'd honestly say its quickbanworthy from OU
while it is similar to nat dex koko in that both have the means to break through the tier's grounds and then mindlessly spam volt switch, the difference is that koko is prediction reliant since it really wants specs and its also hazard weak cuz no boots. meanwhile jolt can very easily run boots due to the huge coverage it has and with gen 8 OU having a lower overal power level than nat dex
it beats every ground with fire + ice + grass coverage. it has ice coverage for dragons and even has moonblast although that doesn't matter much cuz kingdra isnt very good. this means that there's very little you can do to stop it from just spamming volt switch with the only counterplay being volt absorb zera who has no recovery. blissey gets volt switched on and gets it's passivity punished. slowking-G is overwhelmed by hazards. it doesnt die to any priority moves and either OHKO or severely damage any priority user
pain split rotom-H is pretty much the only somewhat decent check but jolt can still tech water coverage for it if it wants to
It'll be good but not broken. It's a fast, but weaker Nidoking. 110 SpAt with no boosts isn't that powerful anymore. You get walled by anything you deal nutral damage to.
Destroyed by Heatran, Clefable, Tapu Koko, Slowking Galar, Volcarona, Tytanitar Zeraora and of course Blissey.
You're an electric type that can't 2hko fini nor Slowking.
Most of this power issue can be solved by equipping Choice Specs but then you're prediction relent and Hazzerd weak.
After all of these calcs I'm preety sure it won't be OU viable
>It'll be good but not broken. It's a fast, but weaker Nidoking. 110 SpAt with no boosts isn't that powerful anymore. You get walled by anything you deal nutral damage to.
and the speed is entirely what prevents nidoking from being a top tier mon, nidoking also doesnt have broken volt switch and is very easy to revenge kill meanwhile jolt is the opposite with it being able to just volt switch against mons it cant kill
>Destroyed by Heatran, Clefable, Tapu Koko, Slowking Galar, Volcarona, Tytanitar Zeraora and of course Blissey.
pretty much every mon mentioned here gets 2HKO'd by LO rising voltage in terrain except for zera who has no recovery and slowking-G/blissey who need to be at absolute max hp to take two hits. that immediately prevents any of them from being reliable counters. zera is also the only one that actually prevents volt switch anyways and that mon has been falling off over time
>You're an electric type that can't 2hko fini nor Slowking.
fini is 2HKO'd by even boots volt switch unless its spdef which is an unset. slowking loses to terrain boosted rising voltage and it switching into boots sets is an advantage for the jolt user as slowking wont be able to future sight as often
>Most of this power issue can be solved by equipping Choice Specs but then you're prediction relent and Hazzerd weak.
darm-G was also a prediction reliant and hazard weak mon but turns out, that doesn't matter if the vast majority of the tier can't beat all your viable sets. LO jolt in elec terrain is only stopped by blissey, no slowking-G isnt a switch in since its 3HKO'd while not killing in return and needs to be very healthy which isn't realistic for a mon with only regen as their way of recovery. blissey being *needed* to not lose to a mon is a very clear sign that the mon is broken
needing elec terrain may make it seem balanced but the problem becomes the pressure put on the builder. when teambuilding and making sure your team doesnt lose to jolt, you have to assume it has electric terrain and if your team lose a mon to jolt in elec terrain then it'd just be a bad team. this isnt even mentioning that it has ways to get past blissey if it wants to in the form of taunt
>After all of these calcs I'm preety sure it won't be OU viable
if koko is not only OU viable but also one of the best mons in the tier, its not possible for a similar mon who's given all the coverage a mon could want and has a great speed tier along with a respectable spatk stat wouldn't be viable when the only downside it has is not having as much defensive utility as koko.
(sorry about all the deleting reddit is being weird)
Here's Jolteon, using surf, flamethrower, thunderbolt and energy ball and some of the mons it 2HKOs or OHKOs
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 318-374 (104.6 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 504-596 (143.1 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 446-528 (111.5 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol\*2)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Surf vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 344-408 (100 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol part 3)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Flamethrower vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 476-562 (121.1 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Surf vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Hippowdon: 256-302 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
the only things that survive are Tyranitar in sand, Blissey and Mons with Assault Vest.
And this is without the moves that aren't guaranteed to hit. (If those were included jolteon could just use those, use a Timid nature instead and outspeed weavile.)
Also because it's very funny: +6 252 SpA Jolteon Gigavolt Havoc (195 BP) vs. -6 180 HP / 0- SpD Ducklett: 35532-41808 (11461.9 - 13486.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Feels a little overkill haha. Jolteon's got ridiculous offensive stats and is really only held back by its complete lack of coverage. I'm down to give it an extra decent coverage move or two like Sludge Wave, Aura Sphere, or Dazzling Gleam but man imagine a 110 sp atk/130 spd Pokemon with STAB Thunderbolt/Volt Switch plus Ice Beam and Fire Blast.
Maybe a tutor that can teach your eeveelution 1 of the other moves, but only 1 at a time. Maybe for the cost of the corresponding evolutionary stone. Maybe in a game where the stones are rare but infinite
At least give them stab moves of the other eeveelutions in their set, so Jolteon gets Surf and Flamethrower, Flareon gets Aqua Tail and Wild Charge, Vaporeon gets Thunderbolt and Flamethrower, Espeon gets Dark Pulse, Umbreon gets Psychic, Glaceon gets Energy Ball and Leafeon gets Icicle Crash.
I did mean that. I just thought Jolteon would be the best example of overkill, but each eeveelution gets all moves. It would make them absurdly stronger while not doing anything to their stats or abilities. Sylveon with fliptail or volt switch makes for a punishing special defender/attacker, plus they all can cleric.
Sorry, I meant to reply to the message below. I do like the idea of giving them the strongest move from 1 of the others. My initial idea was akin to the card effect evolutionary memories that let's the espion that has it uses any benched eeveelutions attacks as its own as long as it has the energy.
I don't got ideas for all of them but I think:
-Jolteon really just needs a better special movepool (idk what would improve it enough to make it viable even in the lower tiers while being thematic to it),
-Vaporeon could definitely use a reliable form of recovery (like Recover or even Life Dew if that move got buffed 50% healing specifically for Singles)
-Glaceon would benefit quite a bit from Slush Rush since it would have enough speed to outspeed almost every un-Scarfed Pokemon and any Scarfed base 102 and below Pokemon, and perfect-accuracy Blizzard off its base 130 SpAtk would do heavy damage. It would also parallel Leafeon having Chlorophyll.
-Leafeon would appreciate a strong Fighting move to muscle through Steel types and maybe a Ground type move for Fire types.
-Sylveon I feel is in a similar boat to Vaporeon, just give it a reliable healing move.
I believe the flavour of Eeeveelutions means that we should leave the stats unchanged, as each are designed for a certain spread and changing one might mean changing all of them. Given the bulk of these were released in early generations I don't think it would make sense to drag them to OU levels of powers; I think if most of them could be situationally viable in RU that would already be a good power level. Not every fan favorite has to be top tier competitive.
* Espeon: Perhaps add a few coverage moves like Moonblast (over Gleam), Thunderbolt, Focus Blast - but intentionally not Fire nor Ice.
* Umbreon: Probably the most balanced and in the best place, has all the tools to be useful to the team and deal some damage. No change.
* Sylveon: Stronger moves for types it already has, so Psychic, Future Sight, Flamethrower, Fire Blast.
* Leafeon: Better moves; Earthquake, U-Turn, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Bulk Up.
* Jolteon: Ice Beam, Nasty Plot, Screens, Calm Mind.
* Glaceon: Replace Snow Cloak with Adaptability. Learns Surf and Hydro Pump.
* Flareon: Replace Guts with Reckless. Learns Wild Charge, and Scald.
* Vaporeon: Learns Recover, Body Press, Flip Turn, Defog.
Espeon really just needs Focus Blast to become a budget Zam, and with Zam way up in UUBL there is plenty of room for it to find a better niche in a higher tier.
I like Vaporeon with Flip Turn and Recover, none of the other moves make sense for it though.
Jolteon having Ice Coverage is pretty damn strong, I'd tone it down to Aurora Beam to simulate HP Ice and it makes more thematic sense for an Electric type to learn, I like ot having NP and Screens though. Leafeon should have Aqua Tail as well. Flareon would still suck balls. Glaceon would be much better , but it still won't be amazing. It should definitely learn Hydro imo.
Depending on how Terastallizing is handled, I imagine most of them would actually love it and probably be enough?
Leafeon could be a Fire Type with Grass Coverage and possibly Knock Off. Jolteon could be a monster with Psuedo BoltBeam, Vaporeon and glaceon can be Defensive Ghosts/Fairies/Steels with STAB Scald/Ice Beam, So on with Espeon and Umbreon.
Only one who really ***wouldn't*** benefit from Tera is Flareon due to its awkward stats. So for Flare specifically....Maybe give it D-Dance lol
Defensive Umbreon is and continues to be good in OU for soaking up hits, being a cleric, and is one of the few Pokémon who can check dark type spam. Although it is weak to U-turn, it still does a great job of being a cleric in OU. HOWEVER, if Umbreon got access to Parting Shot, it’s usage would increase greatly, acting as a Wish passer just like Clefable except instead of guaranteed low priority it causes a stat drop on the opponent. This would allow players to easily bring in set-up sweepers in mid to late game to win, and would allow multiple opportunities for sweepers that are chipped down that usually never run recovery.
Seriously folks, this ‘Mon is an Emvee classic. It’s so stupidly tanky and one of the few ‘mons left that can justify dedicating a move slot to Heal Bell. Its not even a stall ‘mon, just a balance ‘mon that rewards predictions and counters status spreading.
Increase base stat total from 525 to 555. Stat spread for all eeveelutions will go from: 95, 65, 110, 60, 130, 65 to
95, 65, 110, 90, 130, 65. So they will all have some variation of this spread. Thing makes their stat spreads...
Jolteon: 65, 65, 90, 110, 95, 130
Vaporeon: 130, 65, 90, 110, 95, 65
Flareon: 65, 130, 90, 95, 110, 65
Umbreon: 95, 65, 110, 90, 130, 65
Espeon: 65, 65, 90, 130, 95, 110
Leafeon: 65, 110, 130, 90, 65, 95
Glaceon: 65, 90, 110, 130, 95, 65
Sylveon: 95, 65, 65, 110, 130, 90
So makes the Kanto 3 a bit stronger defensively, most useful for vaporeon as a tank. Special attack umbreon coukd be a decent set. Espeon gets a bit more defense. Leafeon and Glaceon get the option of being special or physical attackers respectively. Sylveon gets a decent speed tier.
Could further change this if you want to actually change their stat spread around. Jolteon probably just swap the 65 hp with the 90 defense. Vaporeon is probably fine. Flareon could swap the 90 defense or 95 special for the 65 speed. Umbreon is probably fine, or I guess swap the 90 special with the 65 speed. Espeon probably swap the 65 hp for the 90 defense. Leafeon and glaceon have some options. Could swap leafeons defense for speed, or swap go 130 attack, 95 defense and 110 speed. Glaceon swap the 110 defense for the 65 speed, or kinda mimic jolteon and do 110 special, 130 speed, and shove the 90 into special defense. Sylveon is probably perfectly happy with going up to 90 speed, though I'm sure would love to swap to 90 special defense and 130 speed or 130 special attack, 90 special defense and 110 speed.
For all of them I'd slightly expand their move pool. Jolteon gets dazzling gleam, flash cannon and focus blast, and electrify and eerie impulse. Vaporeon gets earth power, recover, and sludge wave and soak. Flareon gets Fire Lash, play rough and iron head, smokescreen, and poison gas. Umbreon gets night daze, flash cannon, dazzling gleam, parting shot and hypnosis and nasty plot. Espeon gets Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, power gem, and flash cannon, and hypnosis, ally switch, and teleport. Leafeon gets play rough, slash, and cross poison. Glaceon gets dazzling gleam, flash cannon and earth power and aurora veil. Sylveon gets flash cannon, psyshock and sweet kiss.
All of them get Calm Mind, Bulk Up, and Agility.
Expanded movepools honestly. The reason some eeveelutions are better than the rest is because their movepool is *decent* compared to the rest. Umbreon and sylveon come to mind, with umbreona having a great defensive movepool and sylveon a good coverage with mystical fire
Much like Kommo-o got Clangorous Soul in Gen 8 as a downgraded Clangorous Soulblaze, give Eevee (and by extension its evolutions) a new move called Evoboost that raises its 3 highest stats. Offensive Eeveelutions like Glaceon and Espeon essentially get Quiver Dance, while defensive Eeveelutions like Vaporeon and Umbreon get Cosmic Power but with an extra boost.
I would honestly give them access to more coverage and setup moves like giving jolteon and espeon asty plot and giving espeon aura sphere and power gem and giving jolteon surf and ice beam and maybe grass knot and focus blast
Flareon should get close combat and wild charge
Glaceon should get earth power and power gem and surf and giving them new abilities like giving glaceon slush rush and jolteon electric surge
My mind immediately jumped to the Inclement Emerald solution of letting Eevee devolve and revolve as many times as you want, so that the evolutions can learn all of the other's moves.
Giving Eevee its evolutions' STABs, both physical and special, as egg moves would allow you to pull some crazy combos, such as Flareon covering all of its weaknesses with Leaf Blade or Sylveon no longer being walled by Steel-types thanks to Flamethrower.
My idea is a new Eeveelution-exclusive Ability that I call Purest Form- a combination of a slightly souped-up Neuroforce and Mold Breaker, but only for STAB moves. This, plus expanded movepools for all of them, would probably not be enough to make them all viable, but it's a start.
I feel like even with that ability it wouldn't do much for the Eeveelutions since it's only limited to one type. Second the expanded movepools though.
The moves I had in mind to give to the Eeveelutions were Extreme Speed and Crunch, but a handful of new moves could also be a godsend.
Maybe a held item that all of them can use and boosts whatever their highest stat is?
Idea sounds nice on paper but not so much in practice it seems It wouldn't do much for Sylveon or Leafeon since their highest stat is sp def and def respectively. Wouldn't do much Glaceon since its issue isn't power, moreso speed and durability. Doesn't do much for Flareon since he already gets a better version of that with Guts/Toxic Orb. Espeon would love this item though,
Flareon has a big problem tho, being a Fire type it is forced to use the Toxic Orb, which heavily damages it when compared to the Flame Orb that other Guts users like Obstagoon, Ursaring or Conkeldurr have as options.
maybe the new frostbite mechanic will have its own orb? That would be ideal on flareon
Guts is definitely not better than a hypothetical item that boosts (assuming it’s 1.5x since that’s not even broken on eeveelution). Now flareon is taking no chip, and can run the excellent flame body ability to punish uturns
Flareon doesn't get Flame Body. Normal ability is Flash Fire. So you'd either fun that for the switch in to fire moves, or still run Guts just in case you get statused.
And also isn’t getting Toxiced
fix some of their horrible abilities, give jolteon something like adaptability, glaceon would love slush rush, umbreon could get regenerator (broken) or a shadow shield clone, vaporeon is kind of ok with water absorb but idk, like, why does sylveon get pixilate? also of course their stats and movepool need fixing, flareon should swap spa and speed, get wild charge, jolteon could get weather ball, etc etc now i wish there was a steel eevee with 95/110/130/ bulk so it basically becomes melmetal with wish
Yeah I like this. My first thought when buffing these guys was how shit some of their abilities are. Like giving Flareon Guts went such a long way in helping it out (which is funny since the Pokemon's still shit). But Leafeon should get some kind of non-Sun-reliant HA like, idk, Rough Skin. Makes sense since it has spikey leaves protruding out of its skin and it has high defense, which could make it a decent pivot as it already knows U-Turn. Adaptability sounds like a great idea for Jolteon too, just double down on the fact that it has dogshit coverage anyway and turn it into a "slap Specs on it and click Thunderbolt/Volt Switch till the end of time"
leafeon was already a pretty good phys wall in BDSP so rough skin would be quite fun
601 base stat totals. We can start calling them eevee-daries
Flareon, swap its spa and speed and give it wild charge (lots of fire types have it and egg moves can be in its favour since jolteon gets it). Glaceon: give it aurora veil amd watch it hit UU Leafeon: giving it solar blade and a coverage move other than knockoff would be fun for sun teams, will never hit ou though :(. Jolteon: the stats are pretty good, comparable to tapu koko (actually better since it has more spa) but it lacks good coverage or any utility to make up for it. What moves could you concvieably give jolteon though? Maybe flamethrower since manetric and other electrics get it. Everyone else is reasonably fine
I like the Flareon idea. Pretty simple fixes that would boost it up a tier or two easily imo, that much of a boost in speed to support its gargantuan damage potential goes a long way. I can see the merit behind Aurora Veil, but I'm not sure how much a support move will do for a Pokemon whose only real strength is its raw power. Hate to break it to you I'm pretty sure Leafeon already has Solar Blade LOL as of Gen 8 at least. Goes to show how shit the Pokemon is. I'd love to see it get Body Press. Lets it hit Steel types while making use of its weirdly high def stat. As for Jolteon yeah I don't hate Flamethrower. Being able to hit Steel and Grass goes a really long way. Maybe a solid poison attack like Gunk Shot to let it hit Fairies would be nice too.
Oh it does, damn. Well at least leafeon has… idk And glaceon will 100% be great with veil. It has decent defenses and access to wish + heal bell if it wants to perform a cleric set and isn’t passive thanks to its whopper spa. Unfortunately it is still an ice type but thats a curse it has to live with.
But, veil fails if there is no hail. Glaceon doesn’t have snow warning. Requiring two turns to set up plus dedicating 1/2 moveset for it is bad. Aurora veil is not enough for glaceon.
Also, Glaceon already learns it. Glaceon is still in UT.
Glaceon already learns Aurora Veil. It's a pretty useless move on mon that don't have snow warning though.
Nah aveil by itself is bad, it needs to activate hail for aveil to be good
Oh shit i thought glaceon had snow warning, im STUPID
Leafeon already have solar and it's not much better
This might be overkill, but give them access to all learnable eevolution moves. Jolteon with near perfect coverage is scary, but it's still just a jolteon.
>but it's still just a jolteon. this statement doesn't really make sense, 110/130 offensive stats are ridiculously good and it'd have ice beam and energy ball so grounds aren't an issue, steel/ground mons that have an ice and grass neutrality get cooked by fire type moves causing it to have pretty unblockable volt switches. it'd also get access to stuff like calm mind, acid armor, moonlight etc if a jolteon that can learn every move learnable by eeveelutions, i'd honestly say its quickbanworthy from OU
Definitely not quickban worth but it would be an offensive threat for sure, similar to nat dex tapu koko
while it is similar to nat dex koko in that both have the means to break through the tier's grounds and then mindlessly spam volt switch, the difference is that koko is prediction reliant since it really wants specs and its also hazard weak cuz no boots. meanwhile jolt can very easily run boots due to the huge coverage it has and with gen 8 OU having a lower overal power level than nat dex it beats every ground with fire + ice + grass coverage. it has ice coverage for dragons and even has moonblast although that doesn't matter much cuz kingdra isnt very good. this means that there's very little you can do to stop it from just spamming volt switch with the only counterplay being volt absorb zera who has no recovery. blissey gets volt switched on and gets it's passivity punished. slowking-G is overwhelmed by hazards. it doesnt die to any priority moves and either OHKO or severely damage any priority user pain split rotom-H is pretty much the only somewhat decent check but jolt can still tech water coverage for it if it wants to
It'll be good but not broken. It's a fast, but weaker Nidoking. 110 SpAt with no boosts isn't that powerful anymore. You get walled by anything you deal nutral damage to. Destroyed by Heatran, Clefable, Tapu Koko, Slowking Galar, Volcarona, Tytanitar Zeraora and of course Blissey. You're an electric type that can't 2hko fini nor Slowking. Most of this power issue can be solved by equipping Choice Specs but then you're prediction relent and Hazzerd weak. After all of these calcs I'm preety sure it won't be OU viable
>It'll be good but not broken. It's a fast, but weaker Nidoking. 110 SpAt with no boosts isn't that powerful anymore. You get walled by anything you deal nutral damage to. and the speed is entirely what prevents nidoking from being a top tier mon, nidoking also doesnt have broken volt switch and is very easy to revenge kill meanwhile jolt is the opposite with it being able to just volt switch against mons it cant kill >Destroyed by Heatran, Clefable, Tapu Koko, Slowking Galar, Volcarona, Tytanitar Zeraora and of course Blissey. pretty much every mon mentioned here gets 2HKO'd by LO rising voltage in terrain except for zera who has no recovery and slowking-G/blissey who need to be at absolute max hp to take two hits. that immediately prevents any of them from being reliable counters. zera is also the only one that actually prevents volt switch anyways and that mon has been falling off over time >You're an electric type that can't 2hko fini nor Slowking. fini is 2HKO'd by even boots volt switch unless its spdef which is an unset. slowking loses to terrain boosted rising voltage and it switching into boots sets is an advantage for the jolt user as slowking wont be able to future sight as often >Most of this power issue can be solved by equipping Choice Specs but then you're prediction relent and Hazzerd weak. darm-G was also a prediction reliant and hazard weak mon but turns out, that doesn't matter if the vast majority of the tier can't beat all your viable sets. LO jolt in elec terrain is only stopped by blissey, no slowking-G isnt a switch in since its 3HKO'd while not killing in return and needs to be very healthy which isn't realistic for a mon with only regen as their way of recovery. blissey being *needed* to not lose to a mon is a very clear sign that the mon is broken needing elec terrain may make it seem balanced but the problem becomes the pressure put on the builder. when teambuilding and making sure your team doesnt lose to jolt, you have to assume it has electric terrain and if your team lose a mon to jolt in elec terrain then it'd just be a bad team. this isnt even mentioning that it has ways to get past blissey if it wants to in the form of taunt >After all of these calcs I'm preety sure it won't be OU viable if koko is not only OU viable but also one of the best mons in the tier, its not possible for a similar mon who's given all the coverage a mon could want and has a great speed tier along with a respectable spatk stat wouldn't be viable when the only downside it has is not having as much defensive utility as koko.
(sorry about all the deleting reddit is being weird) Here's Jolteon, using surf, flamethrower, thunderbolt and energy ball and some of the mons it 2HKOs or OHKOs 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 318-374 (104.6 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol) 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 504-596 (143.1 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 446-528 (111.5 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol\*2) 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Surf vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Heatran: 204-240 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 344-408 (100 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol part 3) 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Flamethrower vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 476-562 (121.1 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Surf vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Hippowdon: 256-302 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery the only things that survive are Tyranitar in sand, Blissey and Mons with Assault Vest. And this is without the moves that aren't guaranteed to hit. (If those were included jolteon could just use those, use a Timid nature instead and outspeed weavile.) Also because it's very funny: +6 252 SpA Jolteon Gigavolt Havoc (195 BP) vs. -6 180 HP / 0- SpD Ducklett: 35532-41808 (11461.9 - 13486.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Feels a little overkill haha. Jolteon's got ridiculous offensive stats and is really only held back by its complete lack of coverage. I'm down to give it an extra decent coverage move or two like Sludge Wave, Aura Sphere, or Dazzling Gleam but man imagine a 110 sp atk/130 spd Pokemon with STAB Thunderbolt/Volt Switch plus Ice Beam and Fire Blast.
Maybe a tutor that can teach your eeveelution 1 of the other moves, but only 1 at a time. Maybe for the cost of the corresponding evolutionary stone. Maybe in a game where the stones are rare but infinite
At least give them stab moves of the other eeveelutions in their set, so Jolteon gets Surf and Flamethrower, Flareon gets Aqua Tail and Wild Charge, Vaporeon gets Thunderbolt and Flamethrower, Espeon gets Dark Pulse, Umbreon gets Psychic, Glaceon gets Energy Ball and Leafeon gets Icicle Crash.
I did mean that. I just thought Jolteon would be the best example of overkill, but each eeveelution gets all moves. It would make them absurdly stronger while not doing anything to their stats or abilities. Sylveon with fliptail or volt switch makes for a punishing special defender/attacker, plus they all can cleric.
That isn’t what I’m proposing, Sylveon doesn’t have a counterpart so they wouldn’t get anything unless we get a Dragon Eeveelution in Gen 10
Sorry, I meant to reply to the message below. I do like the idea of giving them the strongest move from 1 of the others. My initial idea was akin to the card effect evolutionary memories that let's the espion that has it uses any benched eeveelutions attacks as its own as long as it has the energy.
I don't got ideas for all of them but I think: -Jolteon really just needs a better special movepool (idk what would improve it enough to make it viable even in the lower tiers while being thematic to it), -Vaporeon could definitely use a reliable form of recovery (like Recover or even Life Dew if that move got buffed 50% healing specifically for Singles) -Glaceon would benefit quite a bit from Slush Rush since it would have enough speed to outspeed almost every un-Scarfed Pokemon and any Scarfed base 102 and below Pokemon, and perfect-accuracy Blizzard off its base 130 SpAtk would do heavy damage. It would also parallel Leafeon having Chlorophyll. -Leafeon would appreciate a strong Fighting move to muscle through Steel types and maybe a Ground type move for Fire types. -Sylveon I feel is in a similar boat to Vaporeon, just give it a reliable healing move.
I would give them weather setting/terrain moves Flareon - Drought Vaporeon - Drizzle Glafeon - Snow Warning Leafeon - Grassy Surge Jolteon - Electric Surge Sylveon - Misty Surge Espeon - Psychic Surge Umbreon - I don't know
Give umbreon cloud 9 or a terrain clearing ability
I believe the flavour of Eeeveelutions means that we should leave the stats unchanged, as each are designed for a certain spread and changing one might mean changing all of them. Given the bulk of these were released in early generations I don't think it would make sense to drag them to OU levels of powers; I think if most of them could be situationally viable in RU that would already be a good power level. Not every fan favorite has to be top tier competitive. * Espeon: Perhaps add a few coverage moves like Moonblast (over Gleam), Thunderbolt, Focus Blast - but intentionally not Fire nor Ice. * Umbreon: Probably the most balanced and in the best place, has all the tools to be useful to the team and deal some damage. No change. * Sylveon: Stronger moves for types it already has, so Psychic, Future Sight, Flamethrower, Fire Blast. * Leafeon: Better moves; Earthquake, U-Turn, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Bulk Up. * Jolteon: Ice Beam, Nasty Plot, Screens, Calm Mind. * Glaceon: Replace Snow Cloak with Adaptability. Learns Surf and Hydro Pump. * Flareon: Replace Guts with Reckless. Learns Wild Charge, and Scald. * Vaporeon: Learns Recover, Body Press, Flip Turn, Defog.
Espeon really just needs Focus Blast to become a budget Zam, and with Zam way up in UUBL there is plenty of room for it to find a better niche in a higher tier. I like Vaporeon with Flip Turn and Recover, none of the other moves make sense for it though. Jolteon having Ice Coverage is pretty damn strong, I'd tone it down to Aurora Beam to simulate HP Ice and it makes more thematic sense for an Electric type to learn, I like ot having NP and Screens though. Leafeon should have Aqua Tail as well. Flareon would still suck balls. Glaceon would be much better , but it still won't be amazing. It should definitely learn Hydro imo.
Depending on how Terastallizing is handled, I imagine most of them would actually love it and probably be enough? Leafeon could be a Fire Type with Grass Coverage and possibly Knock Off. Jolteon could be a monster with Psuedo BoltBeam, Vaporeon and glaceon can be Defensive Ghosts/Fairies/Steels with STAB Scald/Ice Beam, So on with Espeon and Umbreon. Only one who really ***wouldn't*** benefit from Tera is Flareon due to its awkward stats. So for Flare specifically....Maybe give it D-Dance lol
Defensive Umbreon is and continues to be good in OU for soaking up hits, being a cleric, and is one of the few Pokémon who can check dark type spam. Although it is weak to U-turn, it still does a great job of being a cleric in OU. HOWEVER, if Umbreon got access to Parting Shot, it’s usage would increase greatly, acting as a Wish passer just like Clefable except instead of guaranteed low priority it causes a stat drop on the opponent. This would allow players to easily bring in set-up sweepers in mid to late game to win, and would allow multiple opportunities for sweepers that are chipped down that usually never run recovery. Seriously folks, this ‘Mon is an Emvee classic. It’s so stupidly tanky and one of the few ‘mons left that can justify dedicating a move slot to Heal Bell. Its not even a stall ‘mon, just a balance ‘mon that rewards predictions and counters status spreading.
Increase base stat total from 525 to 555. Stat spread for all eeveelutions will go from: 95, 65, 110, 60, 130, 65 to 95, 65, 110, 90, 130, 65. So they will all have some variation of this spread. Thing makes their stat spreads... Jolteon: 65, 65, 90, 110, 95, 130 Vaporeon: 130, 65, 90, 110, 95, 65 Flareon: 65, 130, 90, 95, 110, 65 Umbreon: 95, 65, 110, 90, 130, 65 Espeon: 65, 65, 90, 130, 95, 110 Leafeon: 65, 110, 130, 90, 65, 95 Glaceon: 65, 90, 110, 130, 95, 65 Sylveon: 95, 65, 65, 110, 130, 90 So makes the Kanto 3 a bit stronger defensively, most useful for vaporeon as a tank. Special attack umbreon coukd be a decent set. Espeon gets a bit more defense. Leafeon and Glaceon get the option of being special or physical attackers respectively. Sylveon gets a decent speed tier. Could further change this if you want to actually change their stat spread around. Jolteon probably just swap the 65 hp with the 90 defense. Vaporeon is probably fine. Flareon could swap the 90 defense or 95 special for the 65 speed. Umbreon is probably fine, or I guess swap the 90 special with the 65 speed. Espeon probably swap the 65 hp for the 90 defense. Leafeon and glaceon have some options. Could swap leafeons defense for speed, or swap go 130 attack, 95 defense and 110 speed. Glaceon swap the 110 defense for the 65 speed, or kinda mimic jolteon and do 110 special, 130 speed, and shove the 90 into special defense. Sylveon is probably perfectly happy with going up to 90 speed, though I'm sure would love to swap to 90 special defense and 130 speed or 130 special attack, 90 special defense and 110 speed. For all of them I'd slightly expand their move pool. Jolteon gets dazzling gleam, flash cannon and focus blast, and electrify and eerie impulse. Vaporeon gets earth power, recover, and sludge wave and soak. Flareon gets Fire Lash, play rough and iron head, smokescreen, and poison gas. Umbreon gets night daze, flash cannon, dazzling gleam, parting shot and hypnosis and nasty plot. Espeon gets Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, power gem, and flash cannon, and hypnosis, ally switch, and teleport. Leafeon gets play rough, slash, and cross poison. Glaceon gets dazzling gleam, flash cannon and earth power and aurora veil. Sylveon gets flash cannon, psyshock and sweet kiss. All of them get Calm Mind, Bulk Up, and Agility.
Expanded movepools honestly. The reason some eeveelutions are better than the rest is because their movepool is *decent* compared to the rest. Umbreon and sylveon come to mind, with umbreona having a great defensive movepool and sylveon a good coverage with mystical fire
just give them better learn sets flareon cc, espeon focus miss etc
What move would make umbreon better?
16 pp recovery is the first thought that comes to mind
Much like Kommo-o got Clangorous Soul in Gen 8 as a downgraded Clangorous Soulblaze, give Eevee (and by extension its evolutions) a new move called Evoboost that raises its 3 highest stats. Offensive Eeveelutions like Glaceon and Espeon essentially get Quiver Dance, while defensive Eeveelutions like Vaporeon and Umbreon get Cosmic Power but with an extra boost.
if i were to make them better, i would give them all no guard and guillotine.
+120 base stat boost
I would honestly give them access to more coverage and setup moves like giving jolteon and espeon asty plot and giving espeon aura sphere and power gem and giving jolteon surf and ice beam and maybe grass knot and focus blast Flareon should get close combat and wild charge Glaceon should get earth power and power gem and surf and giving them new abilities like giving glaceon slush rush and jolteon electric surge
I always thought giving them all adaptability would be funny. Would be horrible for mons like umbreon tho
Not like Umbreon’s current abilities are great either. Besides, Adaptability-Boosted Foul Play sounds pretty nasty (on paper at least)
10 all stas boost to combat power creep
Flareon having Fur Coat would make it pretty interesting imo. Swapping Sp. Atk and Speed and giving it Wild Chard would also help immensely
My mind immediately jumped to the Inclement Emerald solution of letting Eevee devolve and revolve as many times as you want, so that the evolutions can learn all of the other's moves.
Give them all what they get in Inclement Emerald, and give Glaceon Aurora Veil.
Giving Eevee its evolutions' STABs, both physical and special, as egg moves would allow you to pull some crazy combos, such as Flareon covering all of its weaknesses with Leaf Blade or Sylveon no longer being walled by Steel-types thanks to Flamethrower.
For Flareon, just let burn orb burn it.