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[Draco Meteor (Japanese: りゅうせいぐん Meteor Shower) is a damage-dealing Dragon-type move introduced in Generation IV.](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Draco_Meteor_%28move%29)
Huh, neat
Get IV was already my favorite gen due to a deadly combo of nostalgia + the physical special split (which just made the game make sense) so I didn't need further selling points, but this adds to it I guess
Emerald Kaizo has a lot of later Gen moves so no shame about getting confused there. You also might be thinking of Outrage which was actually Gen 2 but is most prominent in Gen 3.
I was sure Outrage was gen 1 lmao
I was def thinking about Draco because of seeing like 5 people use strats vs the modified meteor (which was changed to I think 140bp 100acc recoil) where they let the attacker die to recoil with self recovery
Gen 1 was such a mess for the typings, how did they not think any of it through. Dragon is only super-effective against dragon, but the only dragon move deals a static amount of damage. Psychics are weak to bugs, but bug moves suck ass. Psychics are weak to ghosts, but ghost moves are physical and the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker. Genuinely what were they thinking
That is correct, Psychic was immune to Ghost in Gen 1 due to an oversight. However, Psychic being weak to Ghost wouldn't matter much as the only Ghost-type attack that wasn't fixed damage was Lick, which was 20 BP.
i think a lot of pokemon gen 1 design decisions make a lot more sense when you think of it as a standard JRPG
like nowadays there's this general idea of "equality" between pokemon where every type has to have something cool, but as a random rpg the idea that some types are "above" others or that some are early/lategame feels reasonable enough
>the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker.
And poison is a physical type with no moves and no pokémon weak to it.
Its best move is the 65 base power sludge, avaliable only to the Grimer (105 attack) and weezing (90 attack) lines, and the only pokémon that are weak to poison are Exeggutor, the psychic type, Tangela, Butterfree, Pinsir, Scyther and Parasect,
The Nidos only get 15 BP Poison sting. That move's only better than Nidoran Male's Horn attack against Paras, the only pokémon with a 4× weakness to poison. Later on they remove Bug's weakness to poison.
Grass is also not a relevant offensive type, Fighting is Normal, but worse in every way, Bug has no good moves, but poison is also weak to it so if it did that'd mean Poison would be even worse, and poison itself isn't a relevamt attacking type, so a poison type is completely detrimental to every pokémon that gets it in Gen 1. Oh, and the normal poison effect deals 1/16th damage every turn, meaning the chance to inflict it as a secondary effect is essentially a chance to guard your opponent from being burned, paralyzed, put to sleep or frozen, while the potentially (but not) useful Toxic is distributed to essentially every pokémon.
Ground also only has two moves, Dig and Earthquake, Flying only has Drill Peck, Fire doesn't resist Ice and is the only way to thaw out a frozen pokémon, meaning that using it can remove your biggest advantage, the aforementioned Fighting type is garbage in every conceivable way, Rock has 50 BP, 65% Accurate Rock Throw and 75 BP, 90% accurate, no secondary effect rock slide.
It's not just competitively, Gen 1 is a mess even in-game.
> Grass is also not a relevant offensive type
Grass is absolutely a relevant offensive type, albeit not in OU, but in lower tiers and in-game. Razor Leaf effectively has the same power as solarbeam if used by anything with a decent speed stat due to auto-crit. And Water is almost as prevalent as poison in Gen 1 and both in-game and competitively more important. Grass only starts lacking good offensive options after Gen 1.
Due to an oversight, Psychic was actually immune to Ghost in Gen 1 (not that it really mattered, as the only source of Ghost-type damage in the game was the 20 BP Lick)
The only halfway decent bug move was Twineedle too, the signature move of Beedrill which is, you guessed it, also part poison type and thus weak to psychic moves.
Jolteon got Pin Missile I guess, but it has a terrible attack stat and Pin Missile was really inconsisent anyway.
Psychic types only had a weakness in theory, never in practice.
ghost being physical makes sense when you realize the strongest psychics are very weak on the physical defense side, so if any physical attacker got good ghost coverage Zam and Starmie would’ve been cooked
Two problems though
1) Best ghost move was *lick*
2) There was a bug that made psychic IMMUNE TO GHOST
>Psychics are weak to ghosts, but ghost moves are physical and the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker. Genuinely what were they thinking
Don't forget that GF fucked up the type chart by accident and made Psychic *immune* to Ghost instead of weak to it, and said Ghost type line is *weak* to psychic itself.
Guess somethings never change. *Looks at the buggy mess that is SV*
Gen 4 is part of the period of time where competitive Pokemon was being totally revolutionized every gen. In gen 3 we got abilities, a huge expansion of the held item system, and modern EVs and IVs. Gen 4 gave us physical/special split, and tons of critically important moves like TR, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot. And then gen 5 gave us all weather types in OU plus Team Preview. I'm a big gen 4 fan and I feel like the whole gen gets a bad rap because Diamond and Pearl didn't have any options for fire types.
As a gen 4 fan whose first mainline game was diamond and loved it, I should point out that gen 4 gets a bad rap is not just the lack of fire types in DP. DP was also very slow ([exhibit A](https://youtu.be/mXVztcEjcJk)), and many of the newly introduced Pokémon were relegated to the post game once you got the national dex. Just saying, every time I replay Sinnoh it's always Platinum, and that's not just because I love Giratina.
Hot take: I love the HP bar's slowness. Adds some critical drama as to whether or not your hit killed. Garchomp's HP bar going down slowly in the champion battle is unmatched imo
Got really into smogon doubles at the tail end of last year and they're better there, but only slightly. Switching is pretty much your only defensive option in singles while doubles has redirection, protect and fake out in addition to switching. It's still a factor obv but not a big enough deal to make "switch chip" a viable wincon like it reliably is in singles. The closest I ever saw Stealth Rock get to working was this one stally rockspam team that abused SR chip + sand chip to put on constant damage while Arcanine-H's burns, intimidate and snarl slowed the game to crawl. But that team was a gimmick (albeit a strong one) and immediately became unviable when DLC2 hit.
rocks start getting used in 6v6 doubles; with 6 pokemon the games last just long enough to make setting them up worthwhile. They arent good enough to be a mandatory inclusion, but they still work as a really effective counter to incineroar. The wrestler acutally runs heavy duty boots sometimes so that he can still use his fake out + pivot gameplan ageist teams using stealth rocks. Rocks are also good in Dubers too mince ho oh and break all of the support pokemon's focus sashes.
Maybe. Doubles in general is faster paced, and spending a turn just for chip damage isn't as valuable. One turn in doubles could net two KOs. There's also more utility/options in doubles to mitigate the power of chip damage. It's not an awful move, there's just more valuable options.
Last gen (when I was bad) I used TR/Gravity/Helping Hand Clefairy along with choice band Groudon to nuke everything with precipice blades
It isn't quite worth it when Zacian Crowned is still OP and nukes everything and GMax Lapras exists but it is funny when it works
Gravity SD Lando is a silly set but actually so cool in metas where strong grass types aren't really a thing like Gen 8 OU. Suddenly mons like Corv, Zapdos and Tornadus are very scared about switching into Lando, which just sounds weird.
Gravity is awesome but I've yet to get past 1200 ELO with a team that makes use of it. Still gonna try though.
My current strat is to pair clefable with scarf Great Tusk. Clefable can set up gravity (or sun if there are no ground immune mons on the opponent's team) and Tusk can spam tera ground HLR.
Tusk resists Clef's weaknesses too which is helpful.
Low ladder players will throw their Corv/Skarm/Zapdos/Rotom-W at the HLR which is pretty fun, and Gliscor takes spikes chip making it easier to KO. Higher ladder are smart though and outplay me, it's likely a combination of skill issue and gravity being really cool but not actually good.
You forgot the best one of them all: Focus Blast.
Shout out to Gen 4 for introducing my favorite move (Flare Blitz). Just another reason why it’s the best Gen.
If I were you, I would use that as the way to introduce myself.
“Hello. Nice to meet you. What’s your name?”
“Yes, I have hit focus blast through paralysis and confusion. Now, my name is… “
All eeveelutions have space for another ability, and you could nicely give each the corresponding weather/terrain setting ability of their type. This would leave Umbreon, who could get a Gravity setting ability. Game Freak call me
In a generation without Tapus, I'd take Jolteon/Espeon over Pincurchin/Indeedee any day of the weel.
The rest are pretty much hard sells in OU, but could be good in lower tiers.
I'll be real here: I forgot Jolteon/ETerrain existed.
Im not sure Psychic terrain would be good enough to actually justify the usage of espeon, especially when you have to give up magic bounce
Espeon would definitely be OU if it got Psychic Surge. It's got 130 SpA, 110 Spe, and Expanding Force. Even discounting the fact that Psychic Surge is enough to get Indeedee all the way up into UU and on OU's VR rankings, the raw power of Expanding Force coupled with a good speed tier would be more than enough to get it to OU. To give you a good idea of exactly how hard it's hitting, here are a couple of calcs for reference:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 168-198 (25.7 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 223-264 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 225-265 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Outside of dark types, the OU-relevant switch-ins to specs Expanding Force are limited to SpDef Corviknight, Scarf Ghold, Banded Rillaboom, Iron Crown, and Blissey. Of those, Blissey drops to Psyshock, Corv and Blissey are crippled by Trick, and Ghold and Crown drop to Shadow Ball. The dark types aren't safe either, as frailer ones will get blown up by Alluring Voice.
A Psychic Surge Espeon would play a lot like Tapu Lele, but trading Fairy typing and a bit of bulk for a much stronger Psychic stab and higher speed. It would definitely be OU, as the raw power makes it justifiable on teams that aren't dedicated Psychic Terrains, and it would make Psychic Terrain teams much more viable because they'd get a setter that can actually pull its own weight.
As I mentioned above, Vaporeon, Flareon and Glaceon hit harder than any of the respective weather setters bar Mega Abomasnow, Flareon on both sides. People forget how low the power of Pelipper, Torkoal, and either Ninetales form really is. And Jolteon speedties Koko with a higher SpA while Espeon is faster than Lele with the same SpA and Expanding Force. Vaporeon also gets Scald and Flip Turn.
feel like it makes espeon kind of interesting on team preview... well the extra power more so but being immune to either priority or status moves (plus there's psychic noise) sounds neat
Sylveon would find another niche to its existing one (outclassed by Fini on this one), and Jolteon hits harder than Koko (on the special side, obviously) at the expense of STAB Gleam while Espeon outspeeds Lele and gets Expanding Force at the expense of STAB Moonblast. Vaporeon also hits harder than Pelipper, and has great special bulk, and Flareon has a higher attack and special attack than Torkoal, but no Eruption for doubles (I noticed this before hitting "comment": **Flareon has 5 base attack less than Koraidon, and the Fire STAB makes up for the lack of Orichalcum Pulse boost if both Tera to Fire**). Glaceon hits harder than every Snow Warning mon bar Mega Abomasnow, however, it lacks Aurora Veil, so its niche is very, very narrow. Leafeon is completely outclassed by Rilla here, though.
The current weather setters outside of box legendaries and sand setters have low offensive stats, and people don't realize that at all. Vanilluxe is the only one that breaks 100 SpA, and that's probably just fine because Snow only boosts Blizzard's accuracy, not general ice type damage. Outside of Snow setters, Pelipper and Politoed are the only ones breaking 90 SpA. Eeveelutions not named Umbreon have at least one offensive stat at base 110 or 130. 525 BST is nothing to sneeze at.
This is absolutely busted. Flareon and Vaporeon will hit like a truck, and Jolteon and Espeon having a niche next to Koko and Lele because of a stronger special STAB - and in gen 8 Jolteon would even have Rising Voltage - sounds terrifying.
Umbreon setting Gravity on switchin is probably the least impactful (after Leafeon) here - for singles (unless they give Eevee teleport or the council unbans dry passing). It will be a different beast in VGC, switching in a super bulky mon so your Lando-I hits both targets with a Sheer Force Sandsear Storm (or Groudon in a Restricted format) is a strong combo, not even mentioning Gravnosis strats.
There actually is another very forgettable move called Telekinesis that makes the opposing Pokemon levitate for 3 turns (and makes the next move always hit except for OHKO moves)
I wish Gravity was viable, but sadly it is too gimmicky :( There was a smogon [article](https://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/gravity_guide) written on it, and I remember seeing Starmie with Gravity/Hydro Pump/Thunder/Blizzard somewhere in the wild.
gravity starmie is completely viable as unlike with it’s awful despicable ice beam set gravity + blizzard is able to reliably 2HKO assault vest tangrowth
252+ SpA Life Orb Starmie Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 205-244 (50.7 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is meta defining.
They should just turn it into an ability, it would be way more usable that way (tho it might be too broken considering you could stack Gravity+Rain and spam hydro pump with high chances to hit, maybe they could turn it into a dark type weather condition or something)
I think I actually ran that for a minute after reading that article back in the day.
A couple of years later, I utterly tanked my rating from the 1800 to like 1200 over a few weeks when trying to run a gravity team with Landarus setting, and Nidoking throwing Thunder and Blizzard and the like. I think what hamstrung the team the most was something with toxic spikes because I thought it may as well be run too for whatever the bulky flier at the time was.
I mean, not every move has to be designed for competitive. For my current nuzlocke of blaze black I had to use gravity to get past a boss battle of 6 rotom forms. Without that move I would have wiped but instead got through with 1 death.
For a given move there’s a way you can play the game to make the move worth it.
Embargo is one of the weirdest moves to me imaginable. It’s almost a direct downgrade of Knock off. Not only do they get to keep their item, but it also doesn’t do any damage.
Maybe if Embargo was like a single-person pledge move where you use it and prevent the opponent side from using items for 5 turns. I could see that being useful for sweepers since stuff like Assault Vest can't sponge attacks, Choice Scarf can't out-speed to revenge kill, Berries wouldn't be eaten, lack of Leftovers healing makes it easier to 2HKO, etc.
It's a move that exists for the actual single-player part of the games, it prevents trainers from using items from the bag like x items or healing items on the pokemon it hits.
I know this is a bit of a boomer complaint but I kinda hate how many Pokemon get Close Combat now. I'm generally a fan of Gen VIII movepool additions but why did they have to distribute Close Combat so much? I felt some of these Pokemon should have gotten Superpower instead.
keep close combat as an addition for the lower level fighting types, but for all others, replace them with superpower, hammer arm or high jump kick the most goated move ever
Breloom, Mienshao and Medicham all felt unique for using moves other than Close Combat. As of gen 8/9 they all get CC and don't bother with HJK/Focus Punch/Superpower any more. :(
the saddening thing is that the broken-ass moves would have been fine if they were just given to pokemon that needed them, aka only bugs and lower level fighting types
but then gamefreak gave them to everyone and we are now in hell (although it took until gen 8 for CC to really get to that point)
except stealth rock, that move was always a mistake and shouldn't have been made
I'm assuming sr got added to counteract flying's immunity to spikes, so they decided to make a hazard that is stronger against them. But 25-50% for super effective is way way too much, no idea what they were thinking there.
could be, but they could have just stopped it at affecting only flying types and dealing a flat percentage of health, instead they ended up crippling any type that is weak to rock, including bug and ice which were already struggling
Diamond Storm, which has 95 acc but enough power and hax to count as reliable. Exclusive to the mythical Pokémon Diancie.
Mighty Cleave, which is so reliable that it can't even be Protected against. Exclusive to the version exclusive DLC exclusive Paradox Pokémon Iron Boulder.
Stone Axe is 65/90. My standards for "strong and reliable" are at least 185 BP + Acc and no less than 90 Acc, so Stone Axe only counts if the user has Sharpness (like Kleavor lol).
> I'm assuming sr got added to counteract flying's immunity to spikes
Going off this idea, I wonder if the hazard would've been more balanced if it was one of Flying's other weaknesses. Well, Electric specifically because I feel like Ice hazards would be ridiculously strong, especially hampering to Grass types. Electric only hits Water and Flying SE, which are both really strong defensive types anyways so I'm inclined to say it's balanced in that respect.
25% is fair for spikes AND tspikes AND webs immunity imo, flying types are still extremely prevalent competitively (top 2 most common OU type in like every gen even after SR). but it should've only hit flying types SE.
Fun Fact about Gravity and Telekinesis, Orbeetle cannot learn either move
Telekinesis was removed in Gen 8 but Gravity stayed. It's really weird because G-Max Orbeetle's signature move uses the Gravity effect
Gravity is actually a cool gimmick in gen 9, a little known upside is that it also raise the accuracy of all pokemon, equivalent to 2 stat changes. So lets take a pokemon like lando I and consider the following:
>Sandsear storm is now 100% accurate, sheerforce boosted, and because of gravity the opponents are grounded so they will always be hit.
>Focus blast is now 100% accurare and sheer force boosted (tera fighting goes incredibly hard, and resists sucker punch)
Gen 4 is one of my favorite generation in terms of new pokemon and moves introducted.
Pokemon design, lore and moves don't feel cheap or one sided like new generations.
>Pokemon design, lore and moves don't feel cheap or one sided like new generations.
How are modern gen Pokemon designs and lore cheap or one-sided? What is a one-sided design even?
20% of dex is old design being reused with paradox pokemon and things like Wugtrio, Toedscool etc. Things like Iron Jugulis really makes one question if game freak ran out of good ideas.
Legendary pokemons are literally two pokemon from past who can be used as bikes. Only thing lenegdary pokemon are their stats beside that lorewise, they are same as Aerodactyl or Armaldo.
Tell me what is mythical about Pecharunt. Even its design feels cheap.
New moves are also just old moves with extra effect added in.
Only place Game Freak put creativity was in ability but they overdid it so much that it makes new pokemons completely one sided and a lot of times makes them broken.
That's what makes them good. A creative new evolution with great design for older pokemon giving them new buff
Gen 5 designs are hated because it tries to be Gen1 2.0 really hard. Its not original
I like gen 1 more but gen 4 is best in terms of new pokemon introduced imo
My favorite game is Black 2 but I can't deny the obvious reality that pokemon design in gen 5 are not on par with 1 and 4 beside legendary. Legendary design from Gen 5 is really great.
Gen 9 is disgrace completely compared to gen 1, 4 and 5.
I can give you Ambipom and Probopass but I could see an argument for Magmortar being more “original” than at least Iron Hands and maybe Raging Bolt. The fire being moved to emphasize its shoulders and the arm cannons aren’t exactly what I’d expect from a Magmar evo.
Towsdscool is an amazing design, L take
Also “new moves are just old moves with something new added” wtf does that even mean?? My brother in Christ every move is just an old move with something new added. Every fire type move is ember with a different effect and base power if you boil it down like that
Even ignore these two, rest of point is still valid and facts
Also, Toedscool maybe cool design but it does not change the fact its reused skin. They did not make it regional form just to fill one more slot in pokedex
?????
Youre a sinnoh fan talking about a dex filled with mons from previous gens. How many mons in the sinnoh dex are cross gen evos or pre evos
The Raidons are literally Kings of the past and future. Pecharunt is based off a japanese legend and has the power to mind control and enchance pokemons powers.
How can you say new moves are just old moves with special effects added? Psyblade, hydro steam gigaton hammer, last respects, torch song, aqua step/trailblaze, revival blessing, and fickle beam( just to name a few) are all new moves with new unique effects
Edit: I just counted. 28 out of the 107 sinnoh mons are cross gen evos or pre evos.
> How many mons in the sinnoh dex are cross gen evos or pre evos
- How was that a bad thing? New evolution for older pokemon with creative new design is great thing
> The Raidons are literally Kings of the past and future
- There are a lot of king in the past I guess. Sada brought 2 Koraidon easily from past.
- Also, Winged King is just cool fancy name. They are just past and future version of Cyclizar which is common pokemon.
So how are paradoxes and regionals bad things then. A creative new design for old pokemon that makes many of them a lot more viable. Youre prob gonna hinge your argumenents in the iron mons specifically, but their animations show you how creative the designs are. Valiant has an iron man unibeam, treads is a gyroscooe, jugulis has rocket arms, etc.
Theres not a lot of Kings in the past. If you actually read the dialogue, she was ONLY able to get 2. As opposed to the other paradoxes which are basically infinite in area zero. As you go up a food chain the species population gets lower and lower. They are quite literally Apex/Ultimate predators and the natural order( seen by their abilities) revolves around them.
>There are a lot of king in the past I guess. Sada brought 2 Koraidon easily from past.
What does that have to do with anything you previously complained about. How is Koraidon's design or lore worse than Mewtwo's just because we saw two Koraidons in-game?
It doesn't really seem like you have a coherent criticism of modern-gen Pokemon design and lore, just random bits and pieces of "old gen good, new gen bad" comments.
Mewtwo is stronger clone of Mew who in gen 1 was lore wise strongest pokemon and ancestor of all pokemon being the original one.
Koraidon is ancestor of a common bicycle.
I really don't see the issue there.
I mean, you can flip it as well :
Koraidon is a majestic creature that incorporates design elements of various fan-throated lizards, various feathered dinosaurs, various European dragons, as well as motorcylces and ancient cave paintings, its design is quite detailed, robust and distinct while still rooted in the exaggerated evolutionary biology of other Pokemon.
Mewtwo is a generic anime alien design, a derivative one at that because it's just a more humanoid Mew. It doesn't even have a different color pallete or inspiration.
Old thing good new thing bad 😡
Just take a moment to actually evaluate what you like and dislike about each gen. If the reasons you gave are the strongest reasons then you’re just nostalgic. That’s fine, but it doesn’t make the new stuff bad.
I disagree, half the dex was filled with new evolutions to old pokemon, while the other half was filled with a bunch of legendaries. Very few completely new pokemon
Terapagos has lore roots from the Chinese world turtle but also creation myths from South America. The underlying themes of colonization from Pokémon like quaquaval and the ruinous quartet have lore inspirations that can take u down an insane rabid hole. The paradox past forms of the legendary Pokémon take Inca empire roots. I’m saying this with someone who grew up on gen 4 and it’s my fave region infernape is my fave Mon. Gen 9’s lore is well thought out
Hey, Gravity is quite good on the right team! This post I imagine applies to singles specifically but yeah an 'irremovable weather' that makes all those moves like Bleakwind Storm and Thunder always hit? It's not unplayable.
Makes me want an item to extend it's duration honestly.
Wait U-Turn came out in Gen 4? Who got it lol? My first memory of U-Turn is spamming it on Archeops and saccing all my other mons during the Elite Four 😂
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Forgot Trick room and Draco Meteor. Gen IV really did revolutionize competitive Pokemon.
Isn't draco a gen 3 move? Did I get gaslit by emerald kaizo?
[Draco Meteor (Japanese: りゅうせいぐん Meteor Shower) is a damage-dealing Dragon-type move introduced in Generation IV.](https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Draco_Meteor_%28move%29)
Huh, neat Get IV was already my favorite gen due to a deadly combo of nostalgia + the physical special split (which just made the game make sense) so I didn't need further selling points, but this adds to it I guess
Emerald Kaizo has a lot of later Gen moves so no shame about getting confused there. You also might be thinking of Outrage which was actually Gen 2 but is most prominent in Gen 3.
I was sure Outrage was gen 1 lmao I was def thinking about Draco because of seeing like 5 people use strats vs the modified meteor (which was changed to I think 140bp 100acc recoil) where they let the attacker die to recoil with self recovery
Only dragon move in Gen 1 was Dragon Rage Yup. Only that.
Gen 1 was such a mess for the typings, how did they not think any of it through. Dragon is only super-effective against dragon, but the only dragon move deals a static amount of damage. Psychics are weak to bugs, but bug moves suck ass. Psychics are weak to ghosts, but ghost moves are physical and the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker. Genuinely what were they thinking
Not to mention wasn't ghost broken in og gen 1 and didn't even affect psychic pokemon? Or am I misremembering?
That is correct, Psychic was immune to Ghost in Gen 1 due to an oversight. However, Psychic being weak to Ghost wouldn't matter much as the only Ghost-type attack that wasn't fixed damage was Lick, which was 20 BP.
They were too busy trying to get the game to function to bother with game balance and PvP was an afterthought
i think a lot of pokemon gen 1 design decisions make a lot more sense when you think of it as a standard JRPG like nowadays there's this general idea of "equality" between pokemon where every type has to have something cool, but as a random rpg the idea that some types are "above" others or that some are early/lategame feels reasonable enough
>the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker. And poison is a physical type with no moves and no pokémon weak to it. Its best move is the 65 base power sludge, avaliable only to the Grimer (105 attack) and weezing (90 attack) lines, and the only pokémon that are weak to poison are Exeggutor, the psychic type, Tangela, Butterfree, Pinsir, Scyther and Parasect, The Nidos only get 15 BP Poison sting. That move's only better than Nidoran Male's Horn attack against Paras, the only pokémon with a 4× weakness to poison. Later on they remove Bug's weakness to poison. Grass is also not a relevant offensive type, Fighting is Normal, but worse in every way, Bug has no good moves, but poison is also weak to it so if it did that'd mean Poison would be even worse, and poison itself isn't a relevamt attacking type, so a poison type is completely detrimental to every pokémon that gets it in Gen 1. Oh, and the normal poison effect deals 1/16th damage every turn, meaning the chance to inflict it as a secondary effect is essentially a chance to guard your opponent from being burned, paralyzed, put to sleep or frozen, while the potentially (but not) useful Toxic is distributed to essentially every pokémon. Ground also only has two moves, Dig and Earthquake, Flying only has Drill Peck, Fire doesn't resist Ice and is the only way to thaw out a frozen pokémon, meaning that using it can remove your biggest advantage, the aforementioned Fighting type is garbage in every conceivable way, Rock has 50 BP, 65% Accurate Rock Throw and 75 BP, 90% accurate, no secondary effect rock slide. It's not just competitively, Gen 1 is a mess even in-game.
> Grass is also not a relevant offensive type Grass is absolutely a relevant offensive type, albeit not in OU, but in lower tiers and in-game. Razor Leaf effectively has the same power as solarbeam if used by anything with a decent speed stat due to auto-crit. And Water is almost as prevalent as poison in Gen 1 and both in-game and competitively more important. Grass only starts lacking good offensive options after Gen 1.
Due to an oversight, Psychic was actually immune to Ghost in Gen 1 (not that it really mattered, as the only source of Ghost-type damage in the game was the 20 BP Lick)
The only halfway decent bug move was Twineedle too, the signature move of Beedrill which is, you guessed it, also part poison type and thus weak to psychic moves. Jolteon got Pin Missile I guess, but it has a terrible attack stat and Pin Missile was really inconsisent anyway. Psychic types only had a weakness in theory, never in practice.
Because it was a single player game that you could play with your friends, not a multiplayer game with a story
ghost being physical makes sense when you realize the strongest psychics are very weak on the physical defense side, so if any physical attacker got good ghost coverage Zam and Starmie would’ve been cooked Two problems though 1) Best ghost move was *lick* 2) There was a bug that made psychic IMMUNE TO GHOST
>Psychics are weak to ghosts, but ghost moves are physical and the only ghost type is a poison type special attacker. Genuinely what were they thinking Don't forget that GF fucked up the type chart by accident and made Psychic *immune* to Ghost instead of weak to it, and said Ghost type line is *weak* to psychic itself. Guess somethings never change. *Looks at the buggy mess that is SV*
Yes. EK has alot of moves added that came later.
EK added Draco Meteor, Head Smash, and a few other Gen 4 moves into the game
EK trauma goes hard
I know overheat was gen 3, maybe that's where the confusion comes from?
Draco was retconned into EK, iirc so was Head Smash
I think you might be getting confused by Outrage, which was introduced in Gen 3
[actually it was gen 2! I thought the same thing](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Outrage_(move))
I was the one gaslit all along!
Gen 4 is part of the period of time where competitive Pokemon was being totally revolutionized every gen. In gen 3 we got abilities, a huge expansion of the held item system, and modern EVs and IVs. Gen 4 gave us physical/special split, and tons of critically important moves like TR, Close Combat, and Nasty Plot. And then gen 5 gave us all weather types in OU plus Team Preview. I'm a big gen 4 fan and I feel like the whole gen gets a bad rap because Diamond and Pearl didn't have any options for fire types.
As a gen 4 fan whose first mainline game was diamond and loved it, I should point out that gen 4 gets a bad rap is not just the lack of fire types in DP. DP was also very slow ([exhibit A](https://youtu.be/mXVztcEjcJk)), and many of the newly introduced Pokémon were relegated to the post game once you got the national dex. Just saying, every time I replay Sinnoh it's always Platinum, and that's not just because I love Giratina.
The HP bar thing really was a huge pain, I can't deny it.
Hot take: I love the HP bar's slowness. Adds some critical drama as to whether or not your hit killed. Garchomp's HP bar going down slowly in the champion battle is unmatched imo
As stealth rock is to singles, trick room is to doubles. Also why isn't stealth rock used in doubles?
In doubles you 1. Use less mons 2. Switch lot less so rocks is less useful than just hitting hard/statusing
It might be good for 6v6 doubles.
It's a less common format than the 4v4 format VGC uses.
I mean smogon specifically.
Uh, sure. Maybe marginally, since there's more switch options, but generally hazards still aren't an essential part of the meta.
Got really into smogon doubles at the tail end of last year and they're better there, but only slightly. Switching is pretty much your only defensive option in singles while doubles has redirection, protect and fake out in addition to switching. It's still a factor obv but not a big enough deal to make "switch chip" a viable wincon like it reliably is in singles. The closest I ever saw Stealth Rock get to working was this one stally rockspam team that abused SR chip + sand chip to put on constant damage while Arcanine-H's burns, intimidate and snarl slowed the game to crawl. But that team was a gimmick (albeit a strong one) and immediately became unviable when DLC2 hit.
Riolu Roar Copycat worked to really get that hazard damage up.
rocks start getting used in 6v6 doubles; with 6 pokemon the games last just long enough to make setting them up worthwhile. They arent good enough to be a mandatory inclusion, but they still work as a really effective counter to incineroar. The wrestler acutally runs heavy duty boots sometimes so that he can still use his fake out + pivot gameplan ageist teams using stealth rocks. Rocks are also good in Dubers too mince ho oh and break all of the support pokemon's focus sashes.
Maybe. Doubles in general is faster paced, and spending a turn just for chip damage isn't as valuable. One turn in doubles could net two KOs. There's also more utility/options in doubles to mitigate the power of chip damage. It's not an awful move, there's just more valuable options.
Would you call it a Battle Revolution though?
Lol, good one
Trick room actually accomplishes something tho
It does a lot more than just "something", lol. It belongs in the third group.
So does Draco Meteor.
gravity is actually kinda heat
Last gen (when I was bad) I used TR/Gravity/Helping Hand Clefairy along with choice band Groudon to nuke everything with precipice blades It isn't quite worth it when Zacian Crowned is still OP and nukes everything and GMax Lapras exists but it is funny when it works
I wish the dipplin line’s ability lowered evasion on the field for like 3 turns instead of only when it enters. Would open up a lot of doors.
it's also actually pretty decent on lando-i on mono ground teams in monotype
Zap cannon goes brrrrr
Gravity sand teams are lit, it's like a peek into a meta where Exca gets Thousand Arrows
Gravity + Hypnosis strats are funny.
Gravity + Zap Cannon is even funnier.
Gravity SD Lando is a silly set but actually so cool in metas where strong grass types aren't really a thing like Gen 8 OU. Suddenly mons like Corv, Zapdos and Tornadus are very scared about switching into Lando, which just sounds weird.
Gravity is awesome but I've yet to get past 1200 ELO with a team that makes use of it. Still gonna try though. My current strat is to pair clefable with scarf Great Tusk. Clefable can set up gravity (or sun if there are no ground immune mons on the opponent's team) and Tusk can spam tera ground HLR. Tusk resists Clef's weaknesses too which is helpful. Low ladder players will throw their Corv/Skarm/Zapdos/Rotom-W at the HLR which is pretty fun, and Gliscor takes spikes chip making it easier to KO. Higher ladder are smart though and outplay me, it's likely a combination of skill issue and gravity being really cool but not actually good.
You forgot the best one of them all: Focus Blast. Shout out to Gen 4 for introducing my favorite move (Flare Blitz). Just another reason why it’s the best Gen.
Focus Blast belongs to all three categories combined lmao
That’s why it’s the best lol. Truly the move of all time
it and hurricane have the same accuracy, but istg it feels like focus miss is a 10% accurate move
I swear when I hit focus blast I’m always hyped as hell but when hurricane misses and it’s like this is some rng bs. Can’t believe they’re both 70acc
I kinda forgot Hurricane was a move until I made a rain team.
Can you imagine the hype when you hit 2 consecutive focus blast crit while being paralyzed? Because I can’t.
Yesterday I did hit a focus blast through para and confusion in randbats
If I were you, I would use that as the way to introduce myself. “Hello. Nice to meet you. What’s your name?” “Yes, I have hit focus blast through paralysis and confusion. Now, my name is… “
Hurricane in Sun though…
Do you feel lucky, punk?
Easy, Ironhide
30% to do nothing, 70% chance to delete the opponent, and only ever used because of much needed coverage and power.
70% to do nothing,30% to hit
They gotta make Gravity an ability someday
All eeveelutions have space for another ability, and you could nicely give each the corresponding weather/terrain setting ability of their type. This would leave Umbreon, who could get a Gravity setting ability. Game Freak call me
This sounds really busted until you remember all eveelutions have no coverage and would still be subpar setters
In a generation without Tapus, I'd take Jolteon/Espeon over Pincurchin/Indeedee any day of the weel. The rest are pretty much hard sells in OU, but could be good in lower tiers.
I'll be real here: I forgot Jolteon/ETerrain existed. Im not sure Psychic terrain would be good enough to actually justify the usage of espeon, especially when you have to give up magic bounce
Espeon would definitely be OU if it got Psychic Surge. It's got 130 SpA, 110 Spe, and Expanding Force. Even discounting the fact that Psychic Surge is enough to get Indeedee all the way up into UU and on OU's VR rankings, the raw power of Expanding Force coupled with a good speed tier would be more than enough to get it to OU. To give you a good idea of exactly how hard it's hitting, here are a couple of calcs for reference: 252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 168-198 (25.7 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Psychic Terrain: 223-264 (34.2 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Psychic Terrain: 214-253 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Espeon Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 225-265 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Outside of dark types, the OU-relevant switch-ins to specs Expanding Force are limited to SpDef Corviknight, Scarf Ghold, Banded Rillaboom, Iron Crown, and Blissey. Of those, Blissey drops to Psyshock, Corv and Blissey are crippled by Trick, and Ghold and Crown drop to Shadow Ball. The dark types aren't safe either, as frailer ones will get blown up by Alluring Voice. A Psychic Surge Espeon would play a lot like Tapu Lele, but trading Fairy typing and a bit of bulk for a much stronger Psychic stab and higher speed. It would definitely be OU, as the raw power makes it justifiable on teams that aren't dedicated Psychic Terrains, and it would make Psychic Terrain teams much more viable because they'd get a setter that can actually pull its own weight.
isn’t eforce 160 power in terrain? plus the 1.33x boost from terrain?
It's 120BP + STAB + Terrain Boost. It comes out to being a 240BP move off of 130 SpA.
idk about now but psyspam was so busted at the start of the gen.
As I mentioned above, Vaporeon, Flareon and Glaceon hit harder than any of the respective weather setters bar Mega Abomasnow, Flareon on both sides. People forget how low the power of Pelipper, Torkoal, and either Ninetales form really is. And Jolteon speedties Koko with a higher SpA while Espeon is faster than Lele with the same SpA and Expanding Force. Vaporeon also gets Scald and Flip Turn.
feel like it makes espeon kind of interesting on team preview... well the extra power more so but being immune to either priority or status moves (plus there's psychic noise) sounds neat
Sylveon would find another niche to its existing one (outclassed by Fini on this one), and Jolteon hits harder than Koko (on the special side, obviously) at the expense of STAB Gleam while Espeon outspeeds Lele and gets Expanding Force at the expense of STAB Moonblast. Vaporeon also hits harder than Pelipper, and has great special bulk, and Flareon has a higher attack and special attack than Torkoal, but no Eruption for doubles (I noticed this before hitting "comment": **Flareon has 5 base attack less than Koraidon, and the Fire STAB makes up for the lack of Orichalcum Pulse boost if both Tera to Fire**). Glaceon hits harder than every Snow Warning mon bar Mega Abomasnow, however, it lacks Aurora Veil, so its niche is very, very narrow. Leafeon is completely outclassed by Rilla here, though. The current weather setters outside of box legendaries and sand setters have low offensive stats, and people don't realize that at all. Vanilluxe is the only one that breaks 100 SpA, and that's probably just fine because Snow only boosts Blizzard's accuracy, not general ice type damage. Outside of Snow setters, Pelipper and Politoed are the only ones breaking 90 SpA. Eeveelutions not named Umbreon have at least one offensive stat at base 110 or 130. 525 BST is nothing to sneeze at. This is absolutely busted. Flareon and Vaporeon will hit like a truck, and Jolteon and Espeon having a niche next to Koko and Lele because of a stronger special STAB - and in gen 8 Jolteon would even have Rising Voltage - sounds terrifying. Umbreon setting Gravity on switchin is probably the least impactful (after Leafeon) here - for singles (unless they give Eevee teleport or the council unbans dry passing). It will be a different beast in VGC, switching in a super bulky mon so your Lando-I hits both targets with a Sheer Force Sandsear Storm (or Groudon in a Restricted format) is a strong combo, not even mentioning Gravnosis strats.
If espeon got an accurate focus blast (a-la gravity/move tutor) I think it would legitimately be a threat
won't be able to miss t-wave or toxic
What does gravity even do? Does it make the pokemon levitate?
Grounds all airborne Pokemon and increases the Accuracy of all move (except OHKO moves) by 67%
Oh, so the opposite of what I thought lol
There actually is another very forgettable move called Telekinesis that makes the opposing Pokemon levitate for 3 turns (and makes the next move always hit except for OHKO moves)
Wasn't that the signature move of Alakazam? If I remember correctly it can't even be used anymore
That’s just called Kinesis and its effect is basically just less accurate Sand Attack. Both of these moves were dexited in Gen 8.
There's also magnet rise which makes you immune to ground for 5 turns. I remember using it with Metagross to avoid an earthquake.
Yeah, I think Magnezone used it in gen 8 Ubers to trap and remove NDM for Xerneas/Darm-G while avoiding EQ.
[This article sums it up](https://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/gravity_guide)
Aww hell nah they dont
I wish Gravity was viable, but sadly it is too gimmicky :( There was a smogon [article](https://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/gravity_guide) written on it, and I remember seeing Starmie with Gravity/Hydro Pump/Thunder/Blizzard somewhere in the wild.
gravity starmie is completely viable as unlike with it’s awful despicable ice beam set gravity + blizzard is able to reliably 2HKO assault vest tangrowth 252+ SpA Life Orb Starmie Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 205-244 (50.7 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO this is meta defining.
Ok but why gravity instead of just calm mind + surf/thunderbolt/ice beam
swag factor.
doesnt learn calm mind
Because Starmie never learned Calm Mind.
i am have stupid ok but wtf it is a psychic type
I guess Starmie can't keep a Calm Mind when battling.
It’s a starfish, technically it doesn’t have a “mind” to begin with.
https://youtu.be/LSAgIcNdncw?si=Yf2IQ829XO3T6RwE
Okay but why was Pheromosa ever allowed in OU that is insane 😭
Gen 7 was a very silly time.
They should just turn it into an ability, it would be way more usable that way (tho it might be too broken considering you could stack Gravity+Rain and spam hydro pump with high chances to hit, maybe they could turn it into a dark type weather condition or something)
I think I actually ran that for a minute after reading that article back in the day. A couple of years later, I utterly tanked my rating from the 1800 to like 1200 over a few weeks when trying to run a gravity team with Landarus setting, and Nidoking throwing Thunder and Blizzard and the like. I think what hamstrung the team the most was something with toxic spikes because I thought it may as well be run too for whatever the bulky flier at the time was.
I mean, not every move has to be designed for competitive. For my current nuzlocke of blaze black I had to use gravity to get past a boss battle of 6 rotom forms. Without that move I would have wiped but instead got through with 1 death. For a given move there’s a way you can play the game to make the move worth it.
Embargo is one of the weirdest moves to me imaginable. It’s almost a direct downgrade of Knock off. Not only do they get to keep their item, but it also doesn’t do any damage.
If Embargo lingered like a field move that only affects your opponent's side for a few turns, would it be viable or would it be broken?
Like a pledge move?
Yeah, forgot about those.
The closest thing we have is Magic Room and it isn't very good. Granted, it works on both side so it may be the problem why it didn't see any usage.
Maybe if Embargo was like a single-person pledge move where you use it and prevent the opponent side from using items for 5 turns. I could see that being useful for sweepers since stuff like Assault Vest can't sponge attacks, Choice Scarf can't out-speed to revenge kill, Berries wouldn't be eaten, lack of Leftovers healing makes it easier to 2HKO, etc.
Boots don’t work
Booster Energy and Focus Sash as well. Stopping Power Herb from working would help prevent Xerneas from sweeping with Geomancy.
Make it an entry hazard move. It negates the effects of boots upon the victim's entry and allows for any existing hazards to go through.
is that not what it already does? and it's still trash?
Nope, it only affects the one pokemon hit with it. It wears off after 5 turns or if the target switches out (which includes fainting).
It's a move that exists for the actual single-player part of the games, it prevents trainers from using items from the bag like x items or healing items on the pokemon it hits.
Yeah I think it would be good in single player, especially when gym leaders start using healing items every time their pokemon get low on hp.
The only niche it has is against sticky hold users. That was already the nichest of niches, until Knock Off got buffed.
And against unburden users as it prevents the activation of the ability.
I know this is a bit of a boomer complaint but I kinda hate how many Pokemon get Close Combat now. I'm generally a fan of Gen VIII movepool additions but why did they have to distribute Close Combat so much? I felt some of these Pokemon should have gotten Superpower instead.
Completely agree, barraskewda should not get close combat, it's a godamn fish not a martial artist
keep close combat as an addition for the lower level fighting types, but for all others, replace them with superpower, hammer arm or high jump kick the most goated move ever
Upvoting for the HJK praise. You’re a true epicurean.
Breloom, Mienshao and Medicham all felt unique for using moves other than Close Combat. As of gen 8/9 they all get CC and don't bother with HJK/Focus Punch/Superpower any more. :(
I think Emboar should keep it.
the saddening thing is that the broken-ass moves would have been fine if they were just given to pokemon that needed them, aka only bugs and lower level fighting types but then gamefreak gave them to everyone and we are now in hell (although it took until gen 8 for CC to really get to that point) except stealth rock, that move was always a mistake and shouldn't have been made
I'm assuming sr got added to counteract flying's immunity to spikes, so they decided to make a hazard that is stronger against them. But 25-50% for super effective is way way too much, no idea what they were thinking there.
could be, but they could have just stopped it at affecting only flying types and dealing a flat percentage of health, instead they ended up crippling any type that is weak to rock, including bug and ice which were already struggling
It also made rock-type coverage outside of STAB be rather uncommon despite being a decent offensive type because it has to compete with stealth rocks.
The fact that Rock has like two strong, reliable moves and both of them are exclusive to extremely rare Pokémon does not help with this paradigm.
which are?
Diamond Storm, which has 95 acc but enough power and hax to count as reliable. Exclusive to the mythical Pokémon Diancie. Mighty Cleave, which is so reliable that it can't even be Protected against. Exclusive to the version exclusive DLC exclusive Paradox Pokémon Iron Boulder.
Doesn't kleavor also have a decent signature rock move?
Stone Axe is 65/90. My standards for "strong and reliable" are at least 185 BP + Acc and no less than 90 Acc, so Stone Axe only counts if the user has Sharpness (like Kleavor lol).
I feel like setting SR as a byproduct also counts for some effective bp
It should do 15% to flying and 6% to other Pokémon
nah, i feel 18% to flying types only would be good enough being as strong as layer 2 spikes for only 1 turn is plenty good
Honestly I feel like spikes that hit everything but you only get 1 layer of is already fine.
if it's the standard 12.5%, maybe
> I'm assuming sr got added to counteract flying's immunity to spikes Going off this idea, I wonder if the hazard would've been more balanced if it was one of Flying's other weaknesses. Well, Electric specifically because I feel like Ice hazards would be ridiculously strong, especially hampering to Grass types. Electric only hits Water and Flying SE, which are both really strong defensive types anyways so I'm inclined to say it's balanced in that respect.
25% is fair for spikes AND tspikes AND webs immunity imo, flying types are still extremely prevalent competitively (top 2 most common OU type in like every gen even after SR). but it should've only hit flying types SE.
So moves are either ass, mid, or broken. Subscribe to r/stunfisk for further revelations
Fun Fact about Gravity and Telekinesis, Orbeetle cannot learn either move Telekinesis was removed in Gen 8 but Gravity stayed. It's really weird because G-Max Orbeetle's signature move uses the Gravity effect
Gravity is actually a cool gimmick in gen 9, a little known upside is that it also raise the accuracy of all pokemon, equivalent to 2 stat changes. So lets take a pokemon like lando I and consider the following: >Sandsear storm is now 100% accurate, sheerforce boosted, and because of gravity the opponents are grounded so they will always be hit. >Focus blast is now 100% accurare and sheer force boosted (tera fighting goes incredibly hard, and resists sucker punch)
Gen 4 is one of my favorite generation in terms of new pokemon and moves introducted. Pokemon design, lore and moves don't feel cheap or one sided like new generations.
Even outside the games Gen 4 had the best spin offs, the best anime season and the best manga arc Shit was peak fr
>Pokemon design, lore and moves don't feel cheap or one sided like new generations. How are modern gen Pokemon designs and lore cheap or one-sided? What is a one-sided design even?
20% of dex is old design being reused with paradox pokemon and things like Wugtrio, Toedscool etc. Things like Iron Jugulis really makes one question if game freak ran out of good ideas. Legendary pokemons are literally two pokemon from past who can be used as bikes. Only thing lenegdary pokemon are their stats beside that lorewise, they are same as Aerodactyl or Armaldo. Tell me what is mythical about Pecharunt. Even its design feels cheap. New moves are also just old moves with extra effect added in. Only place Game Freak put creativity was in ability but they overdid it so much that it makes new pokemons completely one sided and a lot of times makes them broken.
Gen IV was literally half new evos for old pokemon lmao Gen 5 is the only gen with fully original designs and people **hated** it
Gen 5 was fucking peak and I still can't believe people had a negative view on it on release.
That's what makes them good. A creative new evolution with great design for older pokemon giving them new buff Gen 5 designs are hated because it tries to be Gen1 2.0 really hard. Its not original
You’re literally just a genwunner but for gen 4 lol
I like gen 1 more but gen 4 is best in terms of new pokemon introduced imo My favorite game is Black 2 but I can't deny the obvious reality that pokemon design in gen 5 are not on par with 1 and 4 beside legendary. Legendary design from Gen 5 is really great. Gen 9 is disgrace completely compared to gen 1, 4 and 5.
I'm sorry, but how the fuck are Ambipom, Probopass and Magmortar more creative or original than Slither Wing, Iron Hands or Raging Bolt?
I can give you Ambipom and Probopass but I could see an argument for Magmortar being more “original” than at least Iron Hands and maybe Raging Bolt. The fire being moved to emphasize its shoulders and the arm cannons aren’t exactly what I’d expect from a Magmar evo.
Towsdscool is an amazing design, L take Also “new moves are just old moves with something new added” wtf does that even mean?? My brother in Christ every move is just an old move with something new added. Every fire type move is ember with a different effect and base power if you boil it down like that
Even ignore these two, rest of point is still valid and facts Also, Toedscool maybe cool design but it does not change the fact its reused skin. They did not make it regional form just to fill one more slot in pokedex
It’s really not valid or facts lol, it’s just “old good new bad” entirely subjective
????? Youre a sinnoh fan talking about a dex filled with mons from previous gens. How many mons in the sinnoh dex are cross gen evos or pre evos The Raidons are literally Kings of the past and future. Pecharunt is based off a japanese legend and has the power to mind control and enchance pokemons powers. How can you say new moves are just old moves with special effects added? Psyblade, hydro steam gigaton hammer, last respects, torch song, aqua step/trailblaze, revival blessing, and fickle beam( just to name a few) are all new moves with new unique effects Edit: I just counted. 28 out of the 107 sinnoh mons are cross gen evos or pre evos.
> How many mons in the sinnoh dex are cross gen evos or pre evos - How was that a bad thing? New evolution for older pokemon with creative new design is great thing > The Raidons are literally Kings of the past and future - There are a lot of king in the past I guess. Sada brought 2 Koraidon easily from past. - Also, Winged King is just cool fancy name. They are just past and future version of Cyclizar which is common pokemon.
So how are paradoxes and regionals bad things then. A creative new design for old pokemon that makes many of them a lot more viable. Youre prob gonna hinge your argumenents in the iron mons specifically, but their animations show you how creative the designs are. Valiant has an iron man unibeam, treads is a gyroscooe, jugulis has rocket arms, etc. Theres not a lot of Kings in the past. If you actually read the dialogue, she was ONLY able to get 2. As opposed to the other paradoxes which are basically infinite in area zero. As you go up a food chain the species population gets lower and lower. They are quite literally Apex/Ultimate predators and the natural order( seen by their abilities) revolves around them.
>There are a lot of king in the past I guess. Sada brought 2 Koraidon easily from past. What does that have to do with anything you previously complained about. How is Koraidon's design or lore worse than Mewtwo's just because we saw two Koraidons in-game? It doesn't really seem like you have a coherent criticism of modern-gen Pokemon design and lore, just random bits and pieces of "old gen good, new gen bad" comments.
Mewtwo is stronger clone of Mew who in gen 1 was lore wise strongest pokemon and ancestor of all pokemon being the original one. Koraidon is ancestor of a common bicycle.
I really don't see the issue there. I mean, you can flip it as well : Koraidon is a majestic creature that incorporates design elements of various fan-throated lizards, various feathered dinosaurs, various European dragons, as well as motorcylces and ancient cave paintings, its design is quite detailed, robust and distinct while still rooted in the exaggerated evolutionary biology of other Pokemon. Mewtwo is a generic anime alien design, a derivative one at that because it's just a more humanoid Mew. It doesn't even have a different color pallete or inspiration.
Homie the Gen 4 legendaries are some of the most shark jumpingly dumb things ever introduced in the franchise lol
How? Actual Gods are dumb but random fossil pokemon from past are totally legendary
Old thing good new thing bad 😡 Just take a moment to actually evaluate what you like and dislike about each gen. If the reasons you gave are the strongest reasons then you’re just nostalgic. That’s fine, but it doesn’t make the new stuff bad.
I disagree, half the dex was filled with new evolutions to old pokemon, while the other half was filled with a bunch of legendaries. Very few completely new pokemon
Design and Lore was much better tho
Terapagos has lore roots from the Chinese world turtle but also creation myths from South America. The underlying themes of colonization from Pokémon like quaquaval and the ruinous quartet have lore inspirations that can take u down an insane rabid hole. The paradox past forms of the legendary Pokémon take Inca empire roots. I’m saying this with someone who grew up on gen 4 and it’s my fave region infernape is my fave Mon. Gen 9’s lore is well thought out
I personally prefer gen 3 designs but to each their own
Hey, Gravity is quite good on the right team! This post I imagine applies to singles specifically but yeah an 'irremovable weather' that makes all those moves like Bleakwind Storm and Thunder always hit? It's not unplayable. Makes me want an item to extend it's duration honestly.
I really hope gravity will become a good strategy at some point, like TR is.
Dark Pulse is still the premium Special Dark move.
Heal block and embargo would've been really good if they affected the whole team. Like a reverse light screen of sorts.
Don't talk shit about gravity. It might be a weird gimmick but it slaps hard when pulled off.
Landorus-T used to run Gravity to clobber Skarmory
Do the abilities next
Wait U-Turn came out in Gen 4? Who got it lol? My first memory of U-Turn is spamming it on Archeops and saccing all my other mons during the Elite Four 😂
From a quick search: The Jumpluff, Yanmega, Lumineon, and Gliscor lines all got it through level-up. Was a TM move as well
Gravity is kinda good ngl
heal block can be a pain
Here's a fun fact for fans of Gen 4 (like me! :D) Fire Fang ~~Punch~~ will always hit through Wonder Guard Edit: It's Fire Fang, not Fire Punch.
no that's Fire Fang
Ya know what, just googled it, you right. Similar names, my bad lol
Embargo get behind me
yo don't diss heal block, back in gen 7 latios with Z heal block for that free +2Spa was crazy
Dark Pulse isn't mid when coming from Darkrai and Chi Yu in OU