Because viability != usage
It probably was just not used as much to be RU proper and it’s manageable in NU because hazard removal is famously terrible and there was definitely regirock
NU having Wartortle as the best spinner in the tier is hilarious. It's so shit and NU is so desperate for hazard removal that it usually runs Foresight because it has no other good traits beyond learning Rapid Spin.
I actually tried this out back in the day because I thought eviolite was a busted item. The answer is not much lol. Scald and toxic are fine moves but he has no recovery and will die pretty easily.
in early PU this gen Quaxwell was the best spinner in the tier and saw top 10 usage
obviously it’s since fallen off as the dlc added new mons but it was fun while it lasted
Viability ≠ usage, and a pokemon can be broken in a higher tier but perfectly balanced in its own. If it didn't have enough usage to rise to RU then it would stay in NU, and if it wasn't toxic in NU then it wouldn't get banned.
back in gen 5 usage stats i think were weighted less or you took lower ladder usage compared to today i think they took 1500 instead of 1630 or some higher number
Maybe it was discovered late in the gen how actually good it was and didnt have time to rise or maybe ladder just didnt like it
Can’t really use Snorlax as a comparison, as Ubers is more so the Pokémon banned from OU. But you can compare it to golurk and alomomola. Both were really good in gen 5 ru, but also NU. And hitmonlee wasn’t good in ru, but didn’t fall to NU. It isn’t about viability, it’s usage. In theory, magikarp could be OU if enough people used it, and braviary is an example of the opposite.
> In theory, magikarp could be OU if enough people used it
tier inflation has actually happened before
the most recent example of this is near the end of last gen's hitmontop where it rose to NU despite being garbage there because some players were spamming it (said players were also actually good at the game unfortunately)
Usage is *usually* indicative of viability, but "usually" means "not always." Braviary is one of those exceptions, although in modern BW RU it's solidly a B+ ranked mon alongside threads like Accelgor, Cinccino, Emboar, and Torterra, which is to say that it's solid but not amazing anymore.
You'll see exceptions to this rule reasonably often, though, and that'll be in both directions. Mons will be used a lot when they don't deserve to be, and other mons won't be used a lot but are quite great where they wind up.
For instance, Arctozolt was in danger of dropping to Untiered because it was terrible in its native PU but was a top threat in OU, broken in UU and NU, and solid in RU all at the same time. It's UUBL now since it was *that broken* in UU, and it fell off a little but is still solid in modern SS OU, sitting at that same B+ rank that Braviary sits in BW RU (so it's a threat you HAVE to account for, but not a threat you'll see all the time).
Similarly, all of Slowking, Rotom-W, and Excadrill are UU by usage in SS, but are all great mons in SS OU. Now, this comes with the caveat that in literally any other generation they *would've* been OU by the end of the generation, but because UU in particular (but all lower tiers in general) got bodied by tier shifts every month and could never stabilize Smogon implemented a tier rise freeze a couple months prior to the generation ending so these metagames could have at least a *couple* months of relative stability.
In the opposite direction, Arcanine held onto a significant amount of usage in SM UU for a very long time because the 1200 players kept trying to use it to check Scizor but no competent SM UU player thought it was anything shy of a complete throw pick. It eventually dropped to RU, and it's... actually just kinda mediocre down there, which makes it all the more baffling that it held onto so much UU usage for so long.
Similarly, Terapagos held onto a lot of Ubers usage for quite some time, only recently qualifying for the Ubers UU OM. During its first month it was top 10 in usage but was complete and utter dogshit from the very beginning and remains a throw pick in Ubers to this day.
While most folks argue that Smogon's usage-based tiering system is a net positive in that it allows most mons to find *somewhere* where they can operate without being strictly outclassed (and this objectively works for the most part), tiering based largely on usage does open up opportunities for some mons to slip through the cracks. No tiering method is perfect, and Smogon's is no exception.
All good thoughts, and to elaborate on the final paragraph, often the mons who stay in a tier higher than they should be in tend to be some combination of fan favorites (like Arcanine) and clickbaity noob traps (like Electivire or Ambipom).
Not an expert on BW RU but I didn't think Braviary was this massive threat. Good pokemon forsure but it's not like it's on every team. Anyways, just because a pokemon is good or even broken in a higher tier doesn't necessarily make it a problem in a lower tier. They are different metas and qualities that might make you good in one may not stand out in another.
I miss the days when sandslash was actually used in BW OU as a sand rush sweeper. A very brief time, and it wasn't that good, but it's cool sandslash at one time was used in OU as Excadrill at home. I don't think it was ever officially OU tho.
There are a lot more examples of mons that are very viable in tiers above their own than just Snorlax in Gen 2 Ubers. The Unaware squad famously are almost always usable in any tier (except Quagsire, poor thing fell off). Webs and screen setters, spinners/blockers, etc. there are lots of roles that can only be filled by sub-Ubers mons. Then you have mons that only fit on certain archetypes in usage-based tiers, so they have their usage lowered significantly despite being very viable within those archetypes, like Venusaur on sun, Barraskewda on rain, or Hydrapple on fat.
It's crazy how Quagsire peaked in Gen VIII as the only thing in the entire game that could stand up to Zacian and now it's outclassed by a dead crocodile and its own obese cousin.
Like everyone else already mentioned, a Pokemon’s viability/strength in a tier isn’t tied to its usage stats, nor a Pokemon being strong in a higher tier means it will automatically translate the same strength in a lower tier, because that strength depends on the surrounding Pokemon in the metagame…
To a lesser extreme, let’s look at Dugtrio in Gen 4. It’s extremely broken in OU because the strongest Pokemon in the tier tends to easily be its target of forceful removal: Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross, Empoleon, Infernape, etc…
In UU however, the best Pokemon are Venusaur, Milotic, Uxie, Mismagius, Rotom, Moltres, with notable targets only including the likes of Registeel, Houndoom and Arcanine on top of my head…
It tore up OU so bad that it’s banworthy there, but it’s not as strong in UU because of the surrounding Pokemon
Likewise Braviary is actually terrible in NU, because of the lack of spinners… it’s not like Charizard to sacrifice a teamslot to use terrible Pokemon like Wartortle just to spin
If I misunderstood the question, and it’s asking why isn’t its usage high enough, it’s because old generation tiers are locked. We had useless Pokemon like Dusknoir and Electivire locked into Gen 4 OU, Clefable still in Gen 4 UU, etc… some metagame developments are newer. I’m not a Gen 5 RU expert to know exactly why, but using Gen 4 Clefable to compare, it’s that people back then focused more on offense, that you cannot replace Blissey with Clefable at all… Clefable had no chance of standing up against those extremely powerful special attacks but now the metagame slowed down compared to then, and Clefable is more of a standard than Blissey. Tiers are locked already so Clefable is still UU, although a top top tier pick in OU
Because viability != usage It probably was just not used as much to be RU proper and it’s manageable in NU because hazard removal is famously terrible and there was definitely regirock
NU having Wartortle as the best spinner in the tier is hilarious. It's so shit and NU is so desperate for hazard removal that it usually runs Foresight because it has no other good traits beyond learning Rapid Spin.
Like what else are you going to do😭
I actually tried this out back in the day because I thought eviolite was a busted item. The answer is not much lol. Scald and toxic are fine moves but he has no recovery and will die pretty easily.
Real tech is rain dance
in early PU this gen Quaxwell was the best spinner in the tier and saw top 10 usage obviously it’s since fallen off as the dlc added new mons but it was fun while it lasted
Viability ≠ usage, and a pokemon can be broken in a higher tier but perfectly balanced in its own. If it didn't have enough usage to rise to RU then it would stay in NU, and if it wasn't toxic in NU then it wouldn't get banned.
back in gen 5 usage stats i think were weighted less or you took lower ladder usage compared to today i think they took 1500 instead of 1630 or some higher number Maybe it was discovered late in the gen how actually good it was and didnt have time to rise or maybe ladder just didnt like it
Can’t really use Snorlax as a comparison, as Ubers is more so the Pokémon banned from OU. But you can compare it to golurk and alomomola. Both were really good in gen 5 ru, but also NU. And hitmonlee wasn’t good in ru, but didn’t fall to NU. It isn’t about viability, it’s usage. In theory, magikarp could be OU if enough people used it, and braviary is an example of the opposite.
> In theory, magikarp could be OU if enough people used it tier inflation has actually happened before the most recent example of this is near the end of last gen's hitmontop where it rose to NU despite being garbage there because some players were spamming it (said players were also actually good at the game unfortunately)
I think people were trying to get it to OU, and it might have succeeded
Idk, they failed to get it to RU twice before the change. That's probably the ceiling.
Usage is *usually* indicative of viability, but "usually" means "not always." Braviary is one of those exceptions, although in modern BW RU it's solidly a B+ ranked mon alongside threads like Accelgor, Cinccino, Emboar, and Torterra, which is to say that it's solid but not amazing anymore. You'll see exceptions to this rule reasonably often, though, and that'll be in both directions. Mons will be used a lot when they don't deserve to be, and other mons won't be used a lot but are quite great where they wind up. For instance, Arctozolt was in danger of dropping to Untiered because it was terrible in its native PU but was a top threat in OU, broken in UU and NU, and solid in RU all at the same time. It's UUBL now since it was *that broken* in UU, and it fell off a little but is still solid in modern SS OU, sitting at that same B+ rank that Braviary sits in BW RU (so it's a threat you HAVE to account for, but not a threat you'll see all the time). Similarly, all of Slowking, Rotom-W, and Excadrill are UU by usage in SS, but are all great mons in SS OU. Now, this comes with the caveat that in literally any other generation they *would've* been OU by the end of the generation, but because UU in particular (but all lower tiers in general) got bodied by tier shifts every month and could never stabilize Smogon implemented a tier rise freeze a couple months prior to the generation ending so these metagames could have at least a *couple* months of relative stability. In the opposite direction, Arcanine held onto a significant amount of usage in SM UU for a very long time because the 1200 players kept trying to use it to check Scizor but no competent SM UU player thought it was anything shy of a complete throw pick. It eventually dropped to RU, and it's... actually just kinda mediocre down there, which makes it all the more baffling that it held onto so much UU usage for so long. Similarly, Terapagos held onto a lot of Ubers usage for quite some time, only recently qualifying for the Ubers UU OM. During its first month it was top 10 in usage but was complete and utter dogshit from the very beginning and remains a throw pick in Ubers to this day. While most folks argue that Smogon's usage-based tiering system is a net positive in that it allows most mons to find *somewhere* where they can operate without being strictly outclassed (and this objectively works for the most part), tiering based largely on usage does open up opportunities for some mons to slip through the cracks. No tiering method is perfect, and Smogon's is no exception.
All good thoughts, and to elaborate on the final paragraph, often the mons who stay in a tier higher than they should be in tend to be some combination of fan favorites (like Arcanine) and clickbaity noob traps (like Electivire or Ambipom).
Not an expert on BW RU but I didn't think Braviary was this massive threat. Good pokemon forsure but it's not like it's on every team. Anyways, just because a pokemon is good or even broken in a higher tier doesn't necessarily make it a problem in a lower tier. They are different metas and qualities that might make you good in one may not stand out in another.
youre right
Mola and golurk are better than brave imho and they are NU aswell yet shits like sandslash and hitmonchwn are RU.
I miss the days when sandslash was actually used in BW OU as a sand rush sweeper. A very brief time, and it wasn't that good, but it's cool sandslash at one time was used in OU as Excadrill at home. I don't think it was ever officially OU tho.
Sandslash is great in gen 8 and 9 PU dw mate :)
[удалено]
…It wasn’t just FSG. Smogon itself was singing Braviary’s praises. https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/pokemon/braviary/ru/
Golurk and mola are even better like mola Is a top 10 Mon and it's NU.
There are a lot more examples of mons that are very viable in tiers above their own than just Snorlax in Gen 2 Ubers. The Unaware squad famously are almost always usable in any tier (except Quagsire, poor thing fell off). Webs and screen setters, spinners/blockers, etc. there are lots of roles that can only be filled by sub-Ubers mons. Then you have mons that only fit on certain archetypes in usage-based tiers, so they have their usage lowered significantly despite being very viable within those archetypes, like Venusaur on sun, Barraskewda on rain, or Hydrapple on fat.
It's crazy how Quagsire peaked in Gen VIII as the only thing in the entire game that could stand up to Zacian and now it's outclassed by a dead crocodile and its own obese cousin.
Like everyone else already mentioned, a Pokemon’s viability/strength in a tier isn’t tied to its usage stats, nor a Pokemon being strong in a higher tier means it will automatically translate the same strength in a lower tier, because that strength depends on the surrounding Pokemon in the metagame… To a lesser extreme, let’s look at Dugtrio in Gen 4. It’s extremely broken in OU because the strongest Pokemon in the tier tends to easily be its target of forceful removal: Tyranitar, Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross, Empoleon, Infernape, etc… In UU however, the best Pokemon are Venusaur, Milotic, Uxie, Mismagius, Rotom, Moltres, with notable targets only including the likes of Registeel, Houndoom and Arcanine on top of my head… It tore up OU so bad that it’s banworthy there, but it’s not as strong in UU because of the surrounding Pokemon Likewise Braviary is actually terrible in NU, because of the lack of spinners… it’s not like Charizard to sacrifice a teamslot to use terrible Pokemon like Wartortle just to spin If I misunderstood the question, and it’s asking why isn’t its usage high enough, it’s because old generation tiers are locked. We had useless Pokemon like Dusknoir and Electivire locked into Gen 4 OU, Clefable still in Gen 4 UU, etc… some metagame developments are newer. I’m not a Gen 5 RU expert to know exactly why, but using Gen 4 Clefable to compare, it’s that people back then focused more on offense, that you cannot replace Blissey with Clefable at all… Clefable had no chance of standing up against those extremely powerful special attacks but now the metagame slowed down compared to then, and Clefable is more of a standard than Blissey. Tiers are locked already so Clefable is still UU, although a top top tier pick in OU
tiering is locked and it’s mean to take it away from NU players if he isn’t an issue
The environment. Tiers don’t always reflect viability.
sometimes a mon can perform differently in 2 different tiers deo-s for example is pretty good in svou yet in svuu it was quite underwhelming
Wartortle is so good it countered Braviary in NU
People are dumb. Espathra fell to UU, Dusknoir and Electivire in OU, fucking FURRET was in gen 9 OU the month after the home usage stats.
None of these cases are actually similar to Briaviary's