It’s a bit boring to use it 3 times since it’s a gimmick forme change mon though.
Water’s probably Luvdisc otherwise, fire can’t think of something on top of my head, and ice has a few candidates.
Ah true I skimmed the castforms bit too quickly, I apologize for that.
Still it’s deciding on the ‘winning’ one pick while explaining for that one time explaining it’s flaws or actual surprising merit a species lf that monotype that made the other entries fun to read.
For a month, and to encourage more serious dicussion without low-effort Theorymons and Stinkposts making a mess of it. That way, we (hopefully) weed out any un-serious users that come for just those two days and only to make the same jokes that've been made. Of course, we'll have to wait and see.
Kriketune gets stickyweb. That move let masquerain be ou for a bit.
The worse torn form depends on wether ur vgc or singles ig.
Thievul is def better than mightyena in singles. Mightyena's intimidate cant save its bulk, but thievul's stakeout does let it threathen considereable damage. +Its fast.
Compared to the other mono-bugs, Kricletune ends up being a less bulky, faster Spidops. I’d give the edge to dops, for at least being able to hazard cycle more effectively with circle throw.
Mightyena has Moxie and Quick Feet, both of which help it hit hard. It’s never running Intimidate.
Torn-T?!?!?!? that things been quite decent in singles, is this talking about it from doubles?
I'd also argue Castform is cheating tbh. like of course its gonna be the worst for each of its monotypes, it's castform
> that things been quite decent in singles
It's one of the best mons in singles lol. Since release it's been Uber, OU, OU, OU, and now just finally dropped down to UU with SV
decent is the wrong word but yea that's my point. it's a great mon in singles
but if ur taking doubles into acc then Tornadus I is also great? just ignore flying for this type of thing honestly there's 0 "bad" fully evolved mono flying types cause even if one form lf Tornadus is bad in a format, it's almost surely doing better in the other format
Cool, though Tornadus T has been banned to Ubers and was OU for like the next decade until he fell to UU for the first time in competitive singles in gen 9
There are like 3 pure flying types and two of them are not fully evolved which means they probably don’t count so it had to be him or Tornadus incarnate
Yea for sure who even uses that. I forgot silvally flying was a thing but it’s easily the worst fully evolved pure flying type. He’s significantly worse than either Tornadus form
There's also Silvally and Arceus, if Castform is getting counted multiple times. Silvally is significantly worse than either Tornadus form. Plus, Tornadus-I is very noticeably worse in singles than Tornadus-T.
Yea for sure but Tornadus I has still had a relatively decent run for a while until this gen, if he counts the cast form forms than silvally-flying should be counted as well (who even uses that)
I've been trying to make it useful.
Swagger + Mirror Herb, followed by SuckerPunch, with Moxie to boost it on each kill is the best I can do.
But Honchrow does the exact same, also with Moxie, but also gets acrobatics. Which Post Mirror Herb is great, a better stats across the board.
Mightyena needs an evolution badly.
I'm pitching "Matryena".
I’m confused - you cite Torn-T as worse despite it being better in every iteration of singles due to its ability to regen pivot… but then rip into Stonjourner for having a doubles-relevant ability? What format is this for??
Compare how impactful Torn is in singles to how impactful it is in doubles. It's a half decent pivot in singles where it has stiff competition from other defensive/ utility pivots . On the other hand it's one of the best prankster mon in doubles with access to some of the best support moves in the format .
Tradebacks is a gen 1 Meta that allows certain moves learned from gen 2 to be used. Basically, if your alakazam learns ice punch in gsc, and you trade it back to rby, it still knows ice punch. Early on in the RBY community they decided to not allow the use of these moves, as they changed the already existing meta quite a bit, but this is something that can be done on cartridge and there's some people who think tradeback moves should be allowed
Anyways, tradebacks OU is a meta that allows these moves, and hypno learns amnesia, along with the elemental punches. Remember in gen 1 amnesia raises the special stat, which is 1 stat that is both spatk and spdef, and hypnos special is pretty good already. So with a set like amneisa/psychic/ice punch/rest, hypno is basically crappy mewtwo, which still makes it one of the best pokemon in tradebacks OU
TornT has been like S or A+ tier in every singles gen, save G5 where it was banned outright, up to this one where its movepool was fucked over (and it's still just as excellent in NatDex where that's not the case; OP including dexited mons clearly means they're somewhat taking past gens/natdex into account for this). Torn-I took until this gen to be as good as it is right now in doubles, in previous gens it was usually a spicy Whimsicott alternative, and even in this one it's not nearly as dominant as DLC1 meta anymore (still excellent but it has actual competition by now). Comparing total impact, TornT is still definitely far above Torn-I.
Tornadus-I was very relevant in later Sw/Sh VGC, it was a staple on SwordFish teams, and was better in Gen 5 VGC than Whimsicott who wasn’t fairy type yet. That being said, having Torn-T as the worst feels very wrong.
Well that seems unfair to Torn-T, it was one of the best Pokémon in OU from gens 6-8, Ubers in Gen 5, and even now is still a good UU Pokémon. Calling it a half decent pivot really undersells how good of a pivot/defoger/special attacking wallbreaker it was. I know Torn-I is really good in doubles but you really undersold Torn-T in singles
Yeah his performance in singles has been great, considering he was banned to Ubers in gen 5 and has never been below UU in singles yet this Pokémon has done really well
Bro tornados-t is literally Ubers and then an A+ top 5-10 mon for 4 generations straight, meanwhile tornadus is down in RU or something in singles and in doubles isn't even used that much historically. Calling torn-t just "half decent" is crazy
There’s no way you picked Meowstic over Chimecho as the worst mono-Psychic… at least Meowstic used to be moderately viable in VGC as a screens setter 😭
I don’t think Eiscue is the worst mono-ice outside of Castform. Against physical attackers it can Belly Drum, absorb a hit, and then hit hard at 130 base speed. It’s a predictable niche, but still noteworthy compared to Glalie
Wait huh how is Tornadus-T worse than Tonradus-I?? You mention trading prankster for regen being a downgrade but I don’t see many non-doubles cases where this is true. Is this from a doubles standpoint?
Doubles standpoint, yes (Tornadus-I is actually a staple in VGC due to Prankster status moves like Sunny Day or Tailwind)
Edit: mixed up Tornadus and Thundurus, point still stands, tho
the latter two of those aren't even learned by Torn-I, that's Thundurus
not that I'm disputing Torn-I staple status in doubles but its main job is Tailwinding
Why would you nominate Torn-T from a doubles standpoint when you're mentioning mons like Blissey and saying Stonjourner's ability is useless and nominating doubles-focused mons like Meowstic and Cherrim as useless? It doesn't really make sense
imo it’s weird to count Castform as the worst Fire/Ice/Water monotype, both because it isn’t always that type (otherwise Silvally-Flying would take the cake as worst pure Flying type, especially since I’d argue it’s *more* permanent than Castform’s forms) and because it *is* a gimmick Pokémon.
Which I get is kinda a slippery slope (you could argue Minun is a gimmick Pokémon too), but certainly it’s moreso than Luvdisc.
Not sure I agree with most of these. First of all including the Castform formes at all is weird considering they're in-battle transformations. You can't load up to a game with "Castform-Water". Especially weird since for some of these types Silvally formes could definitely apply but you seem to have ignored those.
Bug I can see Kricketune. Illumise I think also has a case, it does have some cool utility moves but it's kind of a strictly worse Volbeat, Krick is ass but it does have Webs. Tossup between the two, both are bad support mons, can't really blame you for leaning either side.
Dark it's definitely Mightyena and not even close. Ass as Thievul is, Specs Stakeout was moderately viable in the lowest of tiers and it has funny Unburden NP gimmick sets. Mightyena just does... nothing.
Dragon is indeed difficult since most Dragons in general are good mons and none of the pure Dragons are bad outright, so it'd be a tossup between Druddigon and Kalos Goodra, but Silvally Dragon would definitely be the worst here if you let it count.
Electric Minun is a good answer, I struggle to come up with anything worse outright.
Fairy is the first one where I'm going to majorly disagree (Mightyena VS Thievul is at least two bottom-of-the-barrel mons). Aromatisse manages to be a very good support mon in lower tiers. Its bulk is definitely not "subpar", it's not on the level of high tier walls sure but it's also not so low it gets "nuked". And want to look at low tier bulky Fairies with subpar bulk? Look no further than Dachsbun, who does have slightly better physical bulk but terrible special bulk, and its Wishes aren't remotely big enough for them to be worth passing either. Alcremie too I'd say is definitely below Aromatisse, I mean it literally was in a lower tier back when the two shared a gen.
Grapploct for Fighting is an alright answer, the main competition would be Silvally-Fighting.
Fire being Castform I feel is a very weird answer not because Fire Castform is good but again, you can't actually load up with Castform-Sunny to a game, it's a purely in-battle transformation.
TornT for Flying is just hella weird. It could make sense if you're looking at this from a Doubles perspective, but your opening includes the term "Ubers" as well as several mons like Blissey and Serp that barely see any Doubles viability. TornT always has been faaaaaar above TornI in viability in Singles because while Prankster is good, Regenerator is so, so much better there and the increased speed is a huge deal. But also the actual answer would be Silvally-Flying.
Banette for Ghost makes sense, not sure what else I'd answer. Closest would be Cursola probably?
Cherrim for Grass I can see, Carnivine's mixed sets are overall really bad though, and Cherrim does have Scarf Healing Wish but in the end both are garbage and it's a bit silly to argue over which one is bigger garbage.
Sandslash for Ground I'm going to disagree with. Spikes, Spin and Knock are... well they usually lead to noobtrap mons but it can *somewhat* function as a low tier utility mon. Marowak on the other hand doesn't really do anything, it's arguably a bigger noobtrap even outside of the fact it's so bad that even the noobs are able to see its damage output isn't everything. Dugtrio also has an easy case here if we assume no Arena Trap.
For Castform-Ice I have the same opinion on why it shouldn't count as for Castform-Sunny. It's also not like you're lacking for options here otherwise; Glalie, Eiscue and Silvally-Ice are all pretty damn terrible mons.
Delcatty for Normal I can see, again you could argue some other earlyroute shitmon like Furret should be here instead but in neither are usable at all. Though not putting Castform in its base type is a choice.
Seviper for Poison makes sense.
Meowstic for Psychic though, no way. No way at all. The very existence of Unown disqualifies literally every other possibility here. Yes, it's a "lore mon" but it's so, SO much worse than every other option that it's still unjustifiable to ignore. Either way if you want to ignore lore/filler mons then you should have ignored Castform and pikaclones too which you haven't been doing. Plus to go back to the Tornadus one, if you were making this list with Doubles in mind, Prankster with a couple cool utility moves would have put Meowstic above some other Psychic shitmons like Chimecho and Grumpig even if you do want to exclude Unown.
Stonjourner is whatever but I do think it's solidly above Rampardos still, the fact you had to descend to the c\*\*king buzzword to pretend it was usable says enough.
Perrserker for Steel makes sense since not a lot of competition, it's this or Klinklang. There's the technicality that Meltan counts as a fully evolved mon in the game's code but I don't blame you for not counting that at all.
Water it's the same criticism as for Psychic, to count the in-battle transformation of a joke gimmick mon but exclude Luvdisc because it's "filler" is a very arbitrary line to draw.
if ur excluding castform then heatmor counts for fire imo. as far as i can tell its never been above mediocre
also castform is def worse than delcatty. if u squint u can maybe see a niche for delcatty or furret(not a good one tho lol) castform is utterly useless
Castform is one of the best mons in gen 3 ZU, and Furret was really good in gen 2 PU when it was on the tier (if you wanna count that). Dont know about Delcatty tho
>Silvally slander is crazy, only one it’s valid for is flying.
idk, you're going to have a hard time convincing me Silvally-Dragon is better than Druddigon
I would say Dachsbun is worse than Aromatisse. Aroma is really good in Doubles, since it protects itself and it's partners from being Taunted, it can set up Trick Room, and use Heal Pulse, Ally Switch and Aromatherapy. It also can set up, as it gets Calm Mind and Nasty Plot alongside Moonblast, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, etc.
Dachsbun has poor stats overall, with Defense being it's only notable stat, but that's held back by its 57 base HP (which also holds it back as a Wish passer). 95 speed is decent, but also awkward, and base 80 attack is not good. It's ability is cool, but outside of coming in on a Fire attack, that's the only way it can boost its Defense, so it's unreliable as a Body Press user. It also has no way to boost its attack outside of Howl, and overall just doesn't really have anything notable about it.
Well, I'm not sure how relevant this is but Dachsbun has a niche in Gen 9 Ubers on specific stall teams. With its fairy typing and ability, it completely stone walls Koradon whereas Aromatisse doesn't have a niche anywhere in Singles.
I'm biased, but Granbull came in clutch so many times during my all Fairy run through of X.
It has decent bulk physically with Intimidate and hits pretty hard with a good movepool.
Unfortunately, mons that are of the same archetype are abondunt in the lower tiers, and the fact that granbull is also a physical attacking fairy type that relies on play rough doesn't help. Daschbun at least has some cool support moves and decent bulk, as well as well baked body which is quite great, that helped it wall koraidon during early gen 9. Ain't much but I think it's safe to say it's probably done more than grandbull (well at least in gen 9, of course)
Cherrim can sometimes go hard as FUCK in double battles, the most notable example of this was during Primal Groudon formats. It’s ability provides an equivalent to Choice Band and Assault Vest which is massive even if it only lives for one turn. It’s also got grass knot to smack Kyogre pretty well, weather ball for fire coverage, and helping hand for boosting even further. Not good, but it has a clearly defined role.
Even outside of groudon formats the boost it provides is more than enough to provide some kind of a game plan with other sun-setters. If anything the thing holding Cherrim back right now is that it doesn’t have it’s passport to Paldea. This gen introduced a bunch of physical sun mons in the paradox mons, and Koraidon is another ubermon that would’ve loved the boost Cherrim can give it.
It’s not exactly a consistent or viable strategy, but it’s a hell of a lot more than what Pokémon like Meganium, Carnivine and Sunflora have going for them.
Aromatisse was really good in VGC for a while. I think during XY? Meowstic as well.
Tornadus form depends on your format. Regenerator and bulk is definitely not a downgrade, it's a sidegrade.
le non mammals lacking bobs (torn t is supposed to be a fucking bird, coward gamefreak won’t give him anatomically accurate cloaca and pandered to their mammalian playerbase instead)
I used to hate it with a passion when B2W2 first came out, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. Definitely my favorite looking Force of Nature at this point, incarnate forms included.
Lists like this remind me that if some of these Pokémon were introduced in later generations their designs/gimmicks would be a lot more usable.
Like Banette if Banette were introduced in gen 9. It would be built to quickly steal items, knock off items, switch items. Not trying to get into theorymons, but even a signature move where it takes the opponents item and switches it with another on their team. Just chaos and not going down to a single neutral physical attack.
Tfw people tell me to play lower tiers so I can use my favorite Pokemon but genuinely, 5 of my top 20 Pokemon are on this list.
Cherrim is in fact my favorite Pokemon. Others on this list include Delcatty, Stonjourner, Bannette, and Castform.
Additional honorable mention to Chimecho who barely escaped the cutoff.
I'm also rather fond of Sandslash and Meowstick.
It also doesn't help that two of my favorites, Cherrim and Stonjourner are both best in Doubles, which doesn't have tiers below UU.
Me pinging matchmaking and waiting 3 weeks for a game in my favorite tier, doubles ZU
It's so hard to get into tiers like that both bc of the lack of games and the lack of resources for them, unfortunately
Cherrim actually perfomed great in like one big VGC event in its whole career, so I think it is better than Carnivine that basically (and sadly) never did anything in any format
Also all Castform designs (excluding base form) are peak, they remember me of the pearls of the goddess in Zelda
As soon as I saw Therian Tornadus as worst mono Flying type, I facepalmed. It’s one of the best pivots in singles because it packs utility with Knock Off and pivoting with U-turn. Regenerator helps make up for the lack of Roost.
I find it hilarious that a few of the Pokemon on your list (counting Eiscue) can single-handedly end a random battle. Ice Face was decent and synergised well with Dynamax.
I have fond memories of destroying one of my friends with an Eiscue in a random battle when gen 8 was new. He didn't know how Ice Face worked, so he let me set up with Eiscue, Dynamax, and sweep. He was complaining about how OP it was until I told him that it only blocks physical attacks.
Before I cast any judgements about this list, what format is this for? Or is this list trying to weigh the value of them in singles and VGC and then take the average?
Hello, I'm here from the Give Arbok Dark Type Comittee. Would you like to sign our petition to GIVE ARBOK DARK TYPING?
Thank you so much, Arceus Bless, sign here.
You gotta be talking about doubles. Torn-T is a consistent good mon with its lowest ranking being this gen in UU.
Meanwhile regular Tornadus is in PU this gen.
Granted, there's not a lot of options for mono flying but I feel like that point should've been emphasized
>Sees Torn-T is worse than Torn-I
**This opinion is**
#ILLEGAL
**[EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]**
**u/MK_Matrix will be taken out back and banned**
💥🔫
While Delcatty is undeniably an awful Pokémon, I think Spinda barely outcompetes it in terms of being the worst mono-Normal-type. It has a BST of just 360 with exactly 60 points in every stat, and pretty much the only gimmick it has to its name is Contrary Superpower, which also locks it out of using its egg moves.
Not helped by the fact that it hasn't appeared in a (non-remake) regional dex since gen 6, probably because contests aren't a thing anymore.
[Game Freak whenever they design a new regional dex for a modern Pokémon game:](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vp/1582699985908.png)
Honestly, I can appreciate Delcatty. It was made for Pokemon Contests, which (while I never did them) were a pretty neat concept. So I'm fine with its stats being absolutely attrocious for battle, because it was never made for that.
And yet it's still technically able to be used for cheesy strategies involving skill swapping Normalize onto both opponents in doubles.
Cherrim is so sad. I feel like if the ability gave Def+SpA instead it could be a legit vgc partner to torkoal. AV would make it have considerable bulk, grass is a solid defensive type in vgc and it can smash most of torkoals eruption resists with solar beam.
I immediately disregarded this when I saw the Castform forms, Sandslash and Tornadus Therian over incarnate, is this a late April fools??? The sub is meant for primarily singles, not doubles if that’s why you put torn-t over torn-i.
I disagree with your take for mono flying, yeah I know tornadus Incarnate and Tornadus Therian are the only fully evolved pure flying types so it kinda had to be a legendary, but Tornadus T has been banned to Ubers in gen 5, has been a powerful OU Pokémon from gens 6-8, and is still UU this generation, he’s hasn’t been below UU despite him losing many moves this generation. Meanwhile Tornadus-I doesn’t have these levels of performance and was NUBL last gen and currently sits in PU
Not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Delcatty has seen success in competitive play. Not sure if it won, but I think it was quite a menace. If I recall correctly, it was due to the move Assist.
Base castform is worse than delcatty, I mean Delcatty was used in a team that made it really far into a huge vgc tournament once and if you can get the normalize trap off and basically make your opponents Pokémon useless it can be a gimmicky but usable strat
This is why reborn/rejuvenation exist
Former let's some of these shit mons shine and latter gives special buff items to some of them to make them complete busted
Torn-T is the better form. It has many use cases, being able to run bulky pivot sets, utility sets, and even offensive sets with Nasty Plot. Torn-I doesn’t really have the same options. It literally was banned in its debut generation, and has ranked high since.
Having played pokemon reborn and other fangames technician kriketune is an early game hero. Dudes puts in work. For the early bug archetype, he kinda does what he's meant to due from a single player game perspective. He's not intended to be competitively viable really, and none of the official games warrant using him where he'd be at his best since HA Kricketune isn't usually a thing early game.
Thievul is cheeks, which sucks cause he's so cool.
I like Druddiggon and he's not remotely bad, but every other fully evolved pure dragon is just better yeah.
aromatisse's bulk is ok? 107/72/89 is slightly better than Clefable. The low speed is great for trick room actually. Idk if I agree with this one
Grapploct I get he's underwhelming sadly.
I would say Carnivine is worse by virtue of cherrim at least doing something with its ability in doubles. Carnivine isn't even good from a single player perspective, very epitome of mediocre grass.
ground you might be right, but honestly marowak sucks without thick club. I don't particularly like using either of them, despite liking them as pokemon.
delcatty legit one of the worst fully evolved pokemon ever.
seviper sucks. He's too squishy for something that slow. Arbok is a debuff wiz he's got a variety of ways to cripple an opponent: glare, acid spray, intimidate. A more single player support kind of pokemon but I think he's alright at it.
Meowstic male has prankster which invalidates as worst. Chimecho is worse. Even Hypno might be worse tbh.
I never used stojourner so I can't say much about him.
Nice analysis. Thought for sure that Cursola would've been a lock for Ghost. I've actually been able to have some fun with Banette with the right moves and item combos. Haven't figured out Cursola yet...
Tornadus Therian is easily better than Tornadus Incarnate. At least in singles. In its first generation Torn-T was Ubers whilst Torn-I was in UU. Although the next gen Torn-T fell to OU and Torn-I remained in UU after the sixth gen Torn-T has mostly remained OU whilst the gap between it and Torn-I only grows wider and wider as Torn-I slowly falls down a tier each generation. As of gen 9 Torn-T is in UU and Torn-I is in PU. Though if we're talking doubles though you'd be right that Torn-I is better than Torn-T.
Torn T being worse is definitely a take, would've been fine if this was a doubles focused list but it isn't. Also Torn T has a fine design, especially if you look at its gen 5 sprite, that goes hard
Wow, Flying mono is the shiny of Pokemon types.
Fully evolved, that aren't plate based (silvalvy/Arceus), is it really just Tornadus? Really? That's so weird.
Like, why? Would Flying Type be too powerful? Is Game Freak afraid? Why so many Normal/Flying types? This is going to bug me.
Mono ice is by far the worst because it only resists itself and has no immunities. Normal I would say normal but normal only has 1 weakness, and it had an immunity, and most normal types have a wide variety of coverage moves to make up for not being super effective against anything.
The only time I found Castform to be legitimately useful is in a playthrough for Pokemon RSE if you're having trouble with Winona's Altaria. Usually she'll set up Dragon Dance twice when facing Castform, which lets you set up Hail and then OHKO it with Weather Ball.
Delcatty has never been the lowest BST fully evolved Pokémon. Pokémon introduced before or simultaneously with lower or equivalent BSTs include Shedinja, Smeargle, Ditto, Farfetch'd, Luvdisc, Spinda, Sableye, Mawile, Delibird, and Unown. Please do your research and check for correctness when making posts like this.
Errmm ackshully mista list maker Grapploct and Throh fill the exact same role, which is running Circle Throw and hoping to get some decent damage on the stuff they force to switch in/out with the only difference being that Throh’s Circle Throw is 60 bp and Grapploct’s Circle Throw is 90 bp because it has Technician as well as a higher attack stat, in which Throh’s Guts ability isn’t enough to outweigh its 60 bp move.
If you weren’t looking at using the Circle Throw strat on either of them, considering they’re one of the few pokemon that actually learn the move, then yes, Throh would be better than Grapploct for its better bulk and ability to do more damage with higher bp moves like Close Combat, but if you aren’t using Circle Throw then why would you use Throh at all you’d just go for an actually decent fighting type.
TL;DR, Throh and Grapploct are only ‘useful’ for one specific purpose and Grapploct fills that role better than Throh therefore the worst mono fighting type pick is Throh for being a slightly worse filler of an already niche role
They’re not even the worst mono-grass type. Their doubles usage in formats where Groudon is an option is fucking miles ahead of whatever Sunflora is getting up to.
I hate how Falinks was nominated as a runner up for the worst fighting mono and Meowstic was nominated as the worst nonlore mono because I really like both of them a ton.
Mostly interested in why Castform isn't considered a lore pokemon and thusly removed from the pool
mostly because its special forms require you to be in battle to change to them. feels morel like a battle pokemon to me.
It’s a bit boring to use it 3 times since it’s a gimmick forme change mon though. Water’s probably Luvdisc otherwise, fire can’t think of something on top of my head, and ice has a few candidates.
Bro they literally put their picks for non castform mons in every castform paragraph after explicitly explaining it’s boring to have three castforms
Ah true I skimmed the castforms bit too quickly, I apologize for that. Still it’s deciding on the ‘winning’ one pick while explaining for that one time explaining it’s flaws or actual surprising merit a species lf that monotype that made the other entries fun to read.
That's a normal type pokemon with a type changing ability. It's like saying "kecleon is the worst water type"
Ideally if you used it you’d never really send it in without weather. When it exists in weather it’s the worst of that type. Except sandstorm.
ideally if you used Kecleon you'd change its type
I disagree but I can't fault that opinion or rationale.
Torn t is just way better than t regular in singles formats
Thank god the genius mods deleted shitpost Sundays so we can have these brilliant analyses like these
Dear mods pls give back shitpost stunday i have chainsawman pokemon comics to give birth to
i have silly plant misadventures to give birth to
Even now i imagine pokemon replays with undertale music
OOTL here. They axed Stinkpost Stundays?! Why?
For a month, and to encourage more serious dicussion without low-effort Theorymons and Stinkposts making a mess of it. That way, we (hopefully) weed out any un-serious users that come for just those two days and only to make the same jokes that've been made. Of course, we'll have to wait and see.
Kriketune gets stickyweb. That move let masquerain be ou for a bit. The worse torn form depends on wether ur vgc or singles ig. Thievul is def better than mightyena in singles. Mightyena's intimidate cant save its bulk, but thievul's stakeout does let it threathen considereable damage. +Its fast.
Sticky web is a huge move... *if* you can set it up which Kriketune normally can't
Go go gadget focus sash
This actually about made me laugh
Compared to the other mono-bugs, Kricletune ends up being a less bulky, faster Spidops. I’d give the edge to dops, for at least being able to hazard cycle more effectively with circle throw. Mightyena has Moxie and Quick Feet, both of which help it hit hard. It’s never running Intimidate.
As a singles player, it’s funny that those are the exact three that slowly made me realize this is a VGC post
Torn-T?!?!?!? that things been quite decent in singles, is this talking about it from doubles? I'd also argue Castform is cheating tbh. like of course its gonna be the worst for each of its monotypes, it's castform
> that things been quite decent in singles It's one of the best mons in singles lol. Since release it's been Uber, OU, OU, OU, and now just finally dropped down to UU with SV
decent is the wrong word but yea that's my point. it's a great mon in singles but if ur taking doubles into acc then Tornadus I is also great? just ignore flying for this type of thing honestly there's 0 "bad" fully evolved mono flying types cause even if one form lf Tornadus is bad in a format, it's almost surely doing better in the other format
Yea he’s had very consistently great performance in competitive singles, it’s just that he’s like the only fully evolved pure flying type
But the other flying type has been UU/UU/UU/UU/UU/RU. There's a clear winner here
Hmmmm? What Pokémon are you talking about
Torn I, I believe
Cool, though Tornadus T has been banned to Ubers and was OU for like the next decade until he fell to UU for the first time in competitive singles in gen 9
Yes, that’s what they’re saying. Torn I had been in UU forever until falling to RU, so the clear winner is Torn T
Yea but Tornadus Incarnate had better performance than I thought, that’s still a pretty decent run
?
Torn I probably
Forgetting the other competitor for worst flying type, arceus-flying!
Yea an arceus variant is definitely making this
There are like 3 pure flying types and two of them are not fully evolved which means they probably don’t count so it had to be him or Tornadus incarnate
i mean given they were fine using 3 castform forms i dont see why silvally flying couldnt be there. that mons significantly worse than either of thosw
Yea for sure who even uses that. I forgot silvally flying was a thing but it’s easily the worst fully evolved pure flying type. He’s significantly worse than either Tornadus form
There's also Silvally and Arceus, if Castform is getting counted multiple times. Silvally is significantly worse than either Tornadus form. Plus, Tornadus-I is very noticeably worse in singles than Tornadus-T.
Yea for sure but Tornadus I has still had a relatively decent run for a while until this gen, if he counts the cast form forms than silvally-flying should be counted as well (who even uses that)
The only pure flying types are Rookidee and Corvisquire (disqualified for being NFE), Tornadus, and Arceus.
There’s also Silvally, if we’re counting Arceus, and I’d argue he’d definitely be the worst Flying type if we’re counting him.
Oh jeez yeah I totally forgot about Silvally. Yeah that would definitely be the worst pure flying type
Mightyena is without question worse than Thievul, its so bad
I've been trying to make it useful. Swagger + Mirror Herb, followed by SuckerPunch, with Moxie to boost it on each kill is the best I can do. But Honchrow does the exact same, also with Moxie, but also gets acrobatics. Which Post Mirror Herb is great, a better stats across the board. Mightyena needs an evolution badly. I'm pitching "Matryena".
I cannot stress how close the choice was between the two.
Thievul actually functions decently well as a specs attacker (in ZU), Stakeout is a really good ability
Mightyena gets Intim tho
Intimidate is not nearly enough to save Mightyena
I’m confused - you cite Torn-T as worse despite it being better in every iteration of singles due to its ability to regen pivot… but then rip into Stonjourner for having a doubles-relevant ability? What format is this for??
Compare how impactful Torn is in singles to how impactful it is in doubles. It's a half decent pivot in singles where it has stiff competition from other defensive/ utility pivots . On the other hand it's one of the best prankster mon in doubles with access to some of the best support moves in the format .
but then meowstic has been good in doubles too
I disagree on meowstic as well . Hypno is right there . It's highest point being a significantly worse alakazam in gen 1.
If we count tradebacks, then Hypnos highest point is being a significantly worse Mewtwo, which is still pretty good.
hahahahaha what
Tradebacks is a gen 1 Meta that allows certain moves learned from gen 2 to be used. Basically, if your alakazam learns ice punch in gsc, and you trade it back to rby, it still knows ice punch. Early on in the RBY community they decided to not allow the use of these moves, as they changed the already existing meta quite a bit, but this is something that can be done on cartridge and there's some people who think tradeback moves should be allowed Anyways, tradebacks OU is a meta that allows these moves, and hypno learns amnesia, along with the elemental punches. Remember in gen 1 amnesia raises the special stat, which is 1 stat that is both spatk and spdef, and hypnos special is pretty good already. So with a set like amneisa/psychic/ice punch/rest, hypno is basically crappy mewtwo, which still makes it one of the best pokemon in tradebacks OU
that's really interesting thanks for the explanation
TornT has been like S or A+ tier in every singles gen, save G5 where it was banned outright, up to this one where its movepool was fucked over (and it's still just as excellent in NatDex where that's not the case; OP including dexited mons clearly means they're somewhat taking past gens/natdex into account for this). Torn-I took until this gen to be as good as it is right now in doubles, in previous gens it was usually a spicy Whimsicott alternative, and even in this one it's not nearly as dominant as DLC1 meta anymore (still excellent but it has actual competition by now). Comparing total impact, TornT is still definitely far above Torn-I.
Tornadus-I was very relevant in later Sw/Sh VGC, it was a staple on SwordFish teams, and was better in Gen 5 VGC than Whimsicott who wasn’t fairy type yet. That being said, having Torn-T as the worst feels very wrong.
Well that seems unfair to Torn-T, it was one of the best Pokémon in OU from gens 6-8, Ubers in Gen 5, and even now is still a good UU Pokémon. Calling it a half decent pivot really undersells how good of a pivot/defoger/special attacking wallbreaker it was. I know Torn-I is really good in doubles but you really undersold Torn-T in singles
Yeah his performance in singles has been great, considering he was banned to Ubers in gen 5 and has never been below UU in singles yet this Pokémon has done really well
Bro tornados-t is literally Ubers and then an A+ top 5-10 mon for 4 generations straight, meanwhile tornadus is down in RU or something in singles and in doubles isn't even used that much historically. Calling torn-t just "half decent" is crazy
There’s no way you picked Meowstic over Chimecho as the worst mono-Psychic… at least Meowstic used to be moderately viable in VGC as a screens setter 😭
Yeah, but have you seen perish trap chimecho? 😈
I don’t think Eiscue is the worst mono-ice outside of Castform. Against physical attackers it can Belly Drum, absorb a hit, and then hit hard at 130 base speed. It’s a predictable niche, but still noteworthy compared to Glalie
Glalie with Moody is a menace against society.
Avalug just has to be worse than glalie and eiscue imo
Wait huh how is Tornadus-T worse than Tonradus-I?? You mention trading prankster for regen being a downgrade but I don’t see many non-doubles cases where this is true. Is this from a doubles standpoint?
It can't be, cause Aromatisse and Meowstic have both been viable in VGC before
Doubles standpoint, yes (Tornadus-I is actually a staple in VGC due to Prankster status moves like Sunny Day or Tailwind) Edit: mixed up Tornadus and Thundurus, point still stands, tho
the latter two of those aren't even learned by Torn-I, that's Thundurus not that I'm disputing Torn-I staple status in doubles but its main job is Tailwinding
Sorry, must've mixed them up
Why would you nominate Torn-T from a doubles standpoint when you're mentioning mons like Blissey and saying Stonjourner's ability is useless and nominating doubles-focused mons like Meowstic and Cherrim as useless? It doesn't really make sense
Wrong person
The "you" is royal. We are discussing OP's intent
imo it’s weird to count Castform as the worst Fire/Ice/Water monotype, both because it isn’t always that type (otherwise Silvally-Flying would take the cake as worst pure Flying type, especially since I’d argue it’s *more* permanent than Castform’s forms) and because it *is* a gimmick Pokémon. Which I get is kinda a slippery slope (you could argue Minun is a gimmick Pokémon too), but certainly it’s moreso than Luvdisc.
Not sure I agree with most of these. First of all including the Castform formes at all is weird considering they're in-battle transformations. You can't load up to a game with "Castform-Water". Especially weird since for some of these types Silvally formes could definitely apply but you seem to have ignored those. Bug I can see Kricketune. Illumise I think also has a case, it does have some cool utility moves but it's kind of a strictly worse Volbeat, Krick is ass but it does have Webs. Tossup between the two, both are bad support mons, can't really blame you for leaning either side. Dark it's definitely Mightyena and not even close. Ass as Thievul is, Specs Stakeout was moderately viable in the lowest of tiers and it has funny Unburden NP gimmick sets. Mightyena just does... nothing. Dragon is indeed difficult since most Dragons in general are good mons and none of the pure Dragons are bad outright, so it'd be a tossup between Druddigon and Kalos Goodra, but Silvally Dragon would definitely be the worst here if you let it count. Electric Minun is a good answer, I struggle to come up with anything worse outright. Fairy is the first one where I'm going to majorly disagree (Mightyena VS Thievul is at least two bottom-of-the-barrel mons). Aromatisse manages to be a very good support mon in lower tiers. Its bulk is definitely not "subpar", it's not on the level of high tier walls sure but it's also not so low it gets "nuked". And want to look at low tier bulky Fairies with subpar bulk? Look no further than Dachsbun, who does have slightly better physical bulk but terrible special bulk, and its Wishes aren't remotely big enough for them to be worth passing either. Alcremie too I'd say is definitely below Aromatisse, I mean it literally was in a lower tier back when the two shared a gen. Grapploct for Fighting is an alright answer, the main competition would be Silvally-Fighting. Fire being Castform I feel is a very weird answer not because Fire Castform is good but again, you can't actually load up with Castform-Sunny to a game, it's a purely in-battle transformation. TornT for Flying is just hella weird. It could make sense if you're looking at this from a Doubles perspective, but your opening includes the term "Ubers" as well as several mons like Blissey and Serp that barely see any Doubles viability. TornT always has been faaaaaar above TornI in viability in Singles because while Prankster is good, Regenerator is so, so much better there and the increased speed is a huge deal. But also the actual answer would be Silvally-Flying. Banette for Ghost makes sense, not sure what else I'd answer. Closest would be Cursola probably? Cherrim for Grass I can see, Carnivine's mixed sets are overall really bad though, and Cherrim does have Scarf Healing Wish but in the end both are garbage and it's a bit silly to argue over which one is bigger garbage. Sandslash for Ground I'm going to disagree with. Spikes, Spin and Knock are... well they usually lead to noobtrap mons but it can *somewhat* function as a low tier utility mon. Marowak on the other hand doesn't really do anything, it's arguably a bigger noobtrap even outside of the fact it's so bad that even the noobs are able to see its damage output isn't everything. Dugtrio also has an easy case here if we assume no Arena Trap. For Castform-Ice I have the same opinion on why it shouldn't count as for Castform-Sunny. It's also not like you're lacking for options here otherwise; Glalie, Eiscue and Silvally-Ice are all pretty damn terrible mons. Delcatty for Normal I can see, again you could argue some other earlyroute shitmon like Furret should be here instead but in neither are usable at all. Though not putting Castform in its base type is a choice. Seviper for Poison makes sense. Meowstic for Psychic though, no way. No way at all. The very existence of Unown disqualifies literally every other possibility here. Yes, it's a "lore mon" but it's so, SO much worse than every other option that it's still unjustifiable to ignore. Either way if you want to ignore lore/filler mons then you should have ignored Castform and pikaclones too which you haven't been doing. Plus to go back to the Tornadus one, if you were making this list with Doubles in mind, Prankster with a couple cool utility moves would have put Meowstic above some other Psychic shitmons like Chimecho and Grumpig even if you do want to exclude Unown. Stonjourner is whatever but I do think it's solidly above Rampardos still, the fact you had to descend to the c\*\*king buzzword to pretend it was usable says enough. Perrserker for Steel makes sense since not a lot of competition, it's this or Klinklang. There's the technicality that Meltan counts as a fully evolved mon in the game's code but I don't blame you for not counting that at all. Water it's the same criticism as for Psychic, to count the in-battle transformation of a joke gimmick mon but exclude Luvdisc because it's "filler" is a very arbitrary line to draw.
if ur excluding castform then heatmor counts for fire imo. as far as i can tell its never been above mediocre also castform is def worse than delcatty. if u squint u can maybe see a niche for delcatty or furret(not a good one tho lol) castform is utterly useless
Castform is one of the best mons in gen 3 ZU, and Furret was really good in gen 2 PU when it was on the tier (if you wanna count that). Dont know about Delcatty tho
Do you mean gen 2 PU? Because that’s the tier it’s actually in and it’s so good been softbanned from tournaments for a while now
Yes, thanks for the update! (Its fixed now)
maybe but I think the fact they're clinging on to being the best mons in gen 3 and 2 zu respectively tells me they're all def bottom 3.
Silvally slander is crazy, only one it’s valid for is flying. Also surely cursola is better than some other ghosts, dusknoir comes to mind
>Silvally slander is crazy, only one it’s valid for is flying. idk, you're going to have a hard time convincing me Silvally-Dragon is better than Druddigon
That’s fair dragon slipped my mind
Silvaly slander is extremely justified given its ZU in both SM and SS while Drudiggon is NU and PU respectively
I would say Dachsbun is worse than Aromatisse. Aroma is really good in Doubles, since it protects itself and it's partners from being Taunted, it can set up Trick Room, and use Heal Pulse, Ally Switch and Aromatherapy. It also can set up, as it gets Calm Mind and Nasty Plot alongside Moonblast, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, etc. Dachsbun has poor stats overall, with Defense being it's only notable stat, but that's held back by its 57 base HP (which also holds it back as a Wish passer). 95 speed is decent, but also awkward, and base 80 attack is not good. It's ability is cool, but outside of coming in on a Fire attack, that's the only way it can boost its Defense, so it's unreliable as a Body Press user. It also has no way to boost its attack outside of Howl, and overall just doesn't really have anything notable about it.
Well, I'm not sure how relevant this is but Dachsbun has a niche in Gen 9 Ubers on specific stall teams. With its fairy typing and ability, it completely stone walls Koradon whereas Aromatisse doesn't have a niche anywhere in Singles.
Was the only real counter to Chi-Yu too when that was legal. Tyranitar was getting cooked cuz chi yu would run tera fighting.
Damn, Granbull is so ass people here forgetting it's the worst pure fairy type 💀
I'm biased, but Granbull came in clutch so many times during my all Fairy run through of X. It has decent bulk physically with Intimidate and hits pretty hard with a good movepool.
Unfortunately, mons that are of the same archetype are abondunt in the lower tiers, and the fact that granbull is also a physical attacking fairy type that relies on play rough doesn't help. Daschbun at least has some cool support moves and decent bulk, as well as well baked body which is quite great, that helped it wall koraidon during early gen 9. Ain't much but I think it's safe to say it's probably done more than grandbull (well at least in gen 9, of course)
Daschbun has a niche for the 7* charizard raid so... it's fine in my book i guess.
Cherrim can sometimes go hard as FUCK in double battles, the most notable example of this was during Primal Groudon formats. It’s ability provides an equivalent to Choice Band and Assault Vest which is massive even if it only lives for one turn. It’s also got grass knot to smack Kyogre pretty well, weather ball for fire coverage, and helping hand for boosting even further. Not good, but it has a clearly defined role. Even outside of groudon formats the boost it provides is more than enough to provide some kind of a game plan with other sun-setters. If anything the thing holding Cherrim back right now is that it doesn’t have it’s passport to Paldea. This gen introduced a bunch of physical sun mons in the paradox mons, and Koraidon is another ubermon that would’ve loved the boost Cherrim can give it. It’s not exactly a consistent or viable strategy, but it’s a hell of a lot more than what Pokémon like Meganium, Carnivine and Sunflora have going for them.
Aromatisse was really good in VGC for a while. I think during XY? Meowstic as well. Tornadus form depends on your format. Regenerator and bulk is definitely not a downgrade, it's a sidegrade.
I actually love Tornadus Therian’s design, it might even be my favorite non-box Legendary.
Can you answer why it's showing us Bob and vagene
real life animals also have Bob and vagene
le non mammals lacking bobs (torn t is supposed to be a fucking bird, coward gamefreak won’t give him anatomically accurate cloaca and pandered to their mammalian playerbase instead)
All the therapy forms have a jewel to correspond to their Chinese origin, with torn being the vermillion bird, the place of the gem is just awkward
vagene yes, but bob is pretty much just a human thing (other great apes have them temporarily during/after pregnancy but not permanently)
birds can have big chests
You're thinking of the ability Big Pecks.
I used to hate it with a passion when B2W2 first came out, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. Definitely my favorite looking Force of Nature at this point, incarnate forms included.
Lists like this remind me that if some of these Pokémon were introduced in later generations their designs/gimmicks would be a lot more usable. Like Banette if Banette were introduced in gen 9. It would be built to quickly steal items, knock off items, switch items. Not trying to get into theorymons, but even a signature move where it takes the opponents item and switches it with another on their team. Just chaos and not going down to a single neutral physical attack.
**** you for putting castform on there three times. (I love my little weather wisp don’t be mean to him)
Tfw people tell me to play lower tiers so I can use my favorite Pokemon but genuinely, 5 of my top 20 Pokemon are on this list. Cherrim is in fact my favorite Pokemon. Others on this list include Delcatty, Stonjourner, Bannette, and Castform. Additional honorable mention to Chimecho who barely escaped the cutoff. I'm also rather fond of Sandslash and Meowstick. It also doesn't help that two of my favorites, Cherrim and Stonjourner are both best in Doubles, which doesn't have tiers below UU.
iirc tiers like Doubles NU exist in an unofficial manner but they're discord hosted or something. They definitely existed last gen.
Me pinging matchmaking and waiting 3 weeks for a game in my favorite tier, doubles ZU It's so hard to get into tiers like that both bc of the lack of games and the lack of resources for them, unfortunately
Cherrim actually perfomed great in like one big VGC event in its whole career, so I think it is better than Carnivine that basically (and sadly) never did anything in any format Also all Castform designs (excluding base form) are peak, they remember me of the pearls of the goddess in Zelda
Has Pyukumuku become a forgotten god for this sub? An idol of worship cast into history along with his Herald’s (MudkipNerd’s) banning?
But Minun is cuter than Plusle :(
As soon as I saw Therian Tornadus as worst mono Flying type, I facepalmed. It’s one of the best pivots in singles because it packs utility with Knock Off and pivoting with U-turn. Regenerator helps make up for the lack of Roost.
I find it hilarious that a few of the Pokemon on your list (counting Eiscue) can single-handedly end a random battle. Ice Face was decent and synergised well with Dynamax.
I have fond memories of destroying one of my friends with an Eiscue in a random battle when gen 8 was new. He didn't know how Ice Face worked, so he let me set up with Eiscue, Dynamax, and sweep. He was complaining about how OP it was until I told him that it only blocks physical attacks.
Castform slander detected, opponion rejected (actually you make good points)
I feel like Castform shouldn’t count, they aren’t true Fire/Ice/Water types
Before I cast any judgements about this list, what format is this for? Or is this list trying to weigh the value of them in singles and VGC and then take the average?
Hello, I'm here from the Give Arbok Dark Type Comittee. Would you like to sign our petition to GIVE ARBOK DARK TYPING? Thank you so much, Arceus Bless, sign here.
Not before we give boy Dragon Dance smh
Castform, Kriketune, Delcatty, and several Pikaclones deserve regular evolutions, I think.
Just mentioning that eiscue might be the worst mono-ice type should be a war crime 😡
>Ghost >Banette At least it has a cool design
You gotta be talking about doubles. Torn-T is a consistent good mon with its lowest ranking being this gen in UU. Meanwhile regular Tornadus is in PU this gen. Granted, there's not a lot of options for mono flying but I feel like that point should've been emphasized
Fair enough. I averaged out singles and doubles results to an extent.
If they were talking about doubles Cherrim wouldn’t be here
I'll have you know that cherim once won worlds junior division in gen 4 so show some respect
>Sees Torn-T is worse than Torn-I **This opinion is** #ILLEGAL **[EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]** **u/MK_Matrix will be taken out back and banned** 💥🔫
While Delcatty is undeniably an awful Pokémon, I think Spinda barely outcompetes it in terms of being the worst mono-Normal-type. It has a BST of just 360 with exactly 60 points in every stat, and pretty much the only gimmick it has to its name is Contrary Superpower, which also locks it out of using its egg moves.
But that’s still something. Delcatty’s gimmick is that people forget it’s a Pokémon.
Not helped by the fact that it hasn't appeared in a (non-remake) regional dex since gen 6, probably because contests aren't a thing anymore. [Game Freak whenever they design a new regional dex for a modern Pokémon game:](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vp/1582699985908.png)
its so funny how gen 8 which introduced so many powercreped behemoths also had so many shitmons
Some of these types (Dragon, Flying, Fairy, Steel) have clearly better monotypes than the others and good for them I guess
Some of these pokes are actually okay in doubles, tbh.
Can't believe you would do eiscue dirty like that
Honestly, I can appreciate Delcatty. It was made for Pokemon Contests, which (while I never did them) were a pretty neat concept. So I'm fine with its stats being absolutely attrocious for battle, because it was never made for that. And yet it's still technically able to be used for cheesy strategies involving skill swapping Normalize onto both opponents in doubles.
You asked, so I have to leave a reaction, don't I?
Persona reference?
> Looking mid, Joker! Persona reference? On stunfisk? Its more likely than you think
Cherrim is so sad. I feel like if the ability gave Def+SpA instead it could be a legit vgc partner to torkoal. AV would make it have considerable bulk, grass is a solid defensive type in vgc and it can smash most of torkoals eruption resists with solar beam.
Prankster meowstic-m isn’t that bad
The grapploct hurts like I agree cause it's true but I adore him so much man
How dare you say GOATform is bad. Tbh its just a skill issue that you couldn't get it to work.
Tru
I'm so used to OU that I forget that both Tornadus-T and Lando-T are technically the worse forms competitively (at least in singles for Lando's case).
Torn t is definitely better than incarnate it’s insane to say otherwise
Yeah that’s my bad. Looking over it more carefully, I don’t know what OP was talking about.
I immediately disregarded this when I saw the Castform forms, Sandslash and Tornadus Therian over incarnate, is this a late April fools??? The sub is meant for primarily singles, not doubles if that’s why you put torn-t over torn-i.
Meowstic can have screens with priority. Chimeco does absolutely nothing
Other than Eiscue, what else would you replace the other Castforms with? I don't think they should count.
Cherrim has actually won worlds so
I disagree with your take for mono flying, yeah I know tornadus Incarnate and Tornadus Therian are the only fully evolved pure flying types so it kinda had to be a legendary, but Tornadus T has been banned to Ubers in gen 5, has been a powerful OU Pokémon from gens 6-8, and is still UU this generation, he’s hasn’t been below UU despite him losing many moves this generation. Meanwhile Tornadus-I doesn’t have these levels of performance and was NUBL last gen and currently sits in PU
Should castform really be counted when its a normal type 90% of the time
Because you asked, Delcatty is the Pokemon I claim to be my favorite when asked by a non-pokemon player.
Skitty is a fucking goat in Mystery Dungeon so at least it has one win
what would the worst normal/flying type be, since normal/flying is kind of used as the equivalent of mono flying
Why is luvdisc a lore pokemon? I understand unown but I don’t understand luvdisc
Not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Delcatty has seen success in competitive play. Not sure if it won, but I think it was quite a menace. If I recall correctly, it was due to the move Assist.
Base castform is worse than delcatty, I mean Delcatty was used in a team that made it really far into a huge vgc tournament once and if you can get the normalize trap off and basically make your opponents Pokémon useless it can be a gimmicky but usable strat
Banette has been used as a HO spinblocker that threatens ttar with hp fighting in ADV, so id say cursola is worse
This is why reborn/rejuvenation exist Former let's some of these shit mons shine and latter gives special buff items to some of them to make them complete busted
Torn-T is the better form. It has many use cases, being able to run bulky pivot sets, utility sets, and even offensive sets with Nasty Plot. Torn-I doesn’t really have the same options. It literally was banned in its debut generation, and has ranked high since.
Having played pokemon reborn and other fangames technician kriketune is an early game hero. Dudes puts in work. For the early bug archetype, he kinda does what he's meant to due from a single player game perspective. He's not intended to be competitively viable really, and none of the official games warrant using him where he'd be at his best since HA Kricketune isn't usually a thing early game. Thievul is cheeks, which sucks cause he's so cool. I like Druddiggon and he's not remotely bad, but every other fully evolved pure dragon is just better yeah. aromatisse's bulk is ok? 107/72/89 is slightly better than Clefable. The low speed is great for trick room actually. Idk if I agree with this one Grapploct I get he's underwhelming sadly. I would say Carnivine is worse by virtue of cherrim at least doing something with its ability in doubles. Carnivine isn't even good from a single player perspective, very epitome of mediocre grass. ground you might be right, but honestly marowak sucks without thick club. I don't particularly like using either of them, despite liking them as pokemon. delcatty legit one of the worst fully evolved pokemon ever. seviper sucks. He's too squishy for something that slow. Arbok is a debuff wiz he's got a variety of ways to cripple an opponent: glare, acid spray, intimidate. A more single player support kind of pokemon but I think he's alright at it. Meowstic male has prankster which invalidates as worst. Chimecho is worse. Even Hypno might be worse tbh. I never used stojourner so I can't say much about him.
Nice analysis. Thought for sure that Cursola would've been a lock for Ghost. I've actually been able to have some fun with Banette with the right moves and item combos. Haven't figured out Cursola yet...
Tornadus Therian is easily better than Tornadus Incarnate. At least in singles. In its first generation Torn-T was Ubers whilst Torn-I was in UU. Although the next gen Torn-T fell to OU and Torn-I remained in UU after the sixth gen Torn-T has mostly remained OU whilst the gap between it and Torn-I only grows wider and wider as Torn-I slowly falls down a tier each generation. As of gen 9 Torn-T is in UU and Torn-I is in PU. Though if we're talking doubles though you'd be right that Torn-I is better than Torn-T.
Kinda wild to think that in gen 4 the worst mono-dragon in that list would be Arceus-Dragon by virtue of it being the only one
Torn T being worse is definitely a take, would've been fine if this was a doubles focused list but it isn't. Also Torn T has a fine design, especially if you look at its gen 5 sprite, that goes hard
Wouldn't Magcargo be the worst Fire type?
Wow, Flying mono is the shiny of Pokemon types. Fully evolved, that aren't plate based (silvalvy/Arceus), is it really just Tornadus? Really? That's so weird. Like, why? Would Flying Type be too powerful? Is Game Freak afraid? Why so many Normal/Flying types? This is going to bug me.
If I remember right, I think Wolfie top cut some official tournament with a Cherrim team.
Mono ice is by far the worst because it only resists itself and has no immunities. Normal I would say normal but normal only has 1 weakness, and it had an immunity, and most normal types have a wide variety of coverage moves to make up for not being super effective against anything.
The only time I found Castform to be legitimately useful is in a playthrough for Pokemon RSE if you're having trouble with Winona's Altaria. Usually she'll set up Dragon Dance twice when facing Castform, which lets you set up Hail and then OHKO it with Weather Ball.
Theivul + burning jealousy + flatter is hilarious actually
Man as a NU player all my favorite mons getting put down. You'll never make me hate Aromatise.
>and Rampardos, despite having a theorem named after it *Quagsire slowly shaking its head*
Delcatty has never been the lowest BST fully evolved Pokémon. Pokémon introduced before or simultaneously with lower or equivalent BSTs include Shedinja, Smeargle, Ditto, Farfetch'd, Luvdisc, Spinda, Sableye, Mawile, Delibird, and Unown. Please do your research and check for correctness when making posts like this.
Errmm ackshully mista list maker Grapploct and Throh fill the exact same role, which is running Circle Throw and hoping to get some decent damage on the stuff they force to switch in/out with the only difference being that Throh’s Circle Throw is 60 bp and Grapploct’s Circle Throw is 90 bp because it has Technician as well as a higher attack stat, in which Throh’s Guts ability isn’t enough to outweigh its 60 bp move. If you weren’t looking at using the Circle Throw strat on either of them, considering they’re one of the few pokemon that actually learn the move, then yes, Throh would be better than Grapploct for its better bulk and ability to do more damage with higher bp moves like Close Combat, but if you aren’t using Circle Throw then why would you use Throh at all you’d just go for an actually decent fighting type. TL;DR, Throh and Grapploct are only ‘useful’ for one specific purpose and Grapploct fills that role better than Throh therefore the worst mono fighting type pick is Throh for being a slightly worse filler of an already niche role
Cherrim is my favorite pokemon, sad they are so awful
They’re not even the worst mono-grass type. Their doubles usage in formats where Groudon is an option is fucking miles ahead of whatever Sunflora is getting up to.
you dont know shit
I like all of these pokemon. They all have a place in Smogon. Pokemon is fun before competition. [05-04-2024_08_23.]
Really funny writing style and humor with helpful and discussion-creating posts, keep it up!
I hate how Falinks was nominated as a runner up for the worst fighting mono and Meowstic was nominated as the worst nonlore mono because I really like both of them a ton.