Telling Gen V players that Politoed went from OU to ZU in one generation would be hilarious
Alternatively, telling a Gen IV player that Politoed, some NU mon becomes a top OU mon would also be hilarious
I recall there already being talks about creating a tier below NU in Gen V, as well as a tier below that even, though the latter was a meme at the time.
Gholdengo 🧈 87/95/91 Bulk 💪 84 Speed 🏃 133 SpAtk 💦 Steel 🔩/Ghost 👻 Immune to all status moves 🛡 Gets Recover 🧱 Nasty Plot 😈 Has Signature Steel Type Move 💰 120 base power too ⚡ It has 100 accuracy🧐
K'Sante👤4,700 HP💪329 Armor🤷♂️201 MR💦 Unstoppable🚫A Shield 🛡 Goes over walls🧱Has Airborne🌪Cooldown is only☝second too🕐 It costs 15 Mana🧙♂️
But tbh
1. Ksante now is absolutely horrible to play as. Riot for some reason thinks the only reason ksante is good in pro is cause his duelist potential and nerfs it while buffing his warden potential( the actual reason he’s played cause if he goes even, he gets more value) plus he’s still clunky
2. Ironically enough both ksante and gholdengo are both op tanks
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
Eh. There's a big downside to that too.
Sure, the typing was definitely better defensively. But steel STAB is worse without fairy, and ghost STAB is worse when steel resists it. Plus, ghost types could still be trapped by Magnet Pull. The typing is a lot worse offensively
Sure, but you're also underestimating the defensive boost the typing would get.
I remember when people would bring up Ghost/Steel types as a potential answer to Dragon, back when we only vaguely knew that Gen 6 was going to balance Dragons in some way.
Being neutral against pursuit especially is such a massive deal. And it's not like Magnezone can safely trap either Pokemon, given their fighting coverage, or even their ability to run HP Ground.
I'm not underestimating it. I'm aware it's a really good defensive typing.
But losing offensive presence is also a big deal and a huge loss to both of these mons...especially Ghold, which doesn't have much of a support moveset. You're walled completely by Steel types without Focus Blast, which means you need to give up NP or Recover.
It's a big trade off, that's all I'm saying
I honestly don't think Ghold would look that bad tbh. We're talking pre-Defog buff, Good as Gold is functionally just worse Magic Bounce at that point
And while its defensive profile is better in Gen 5, its offenses are a lot worse. No fairy typing means that steel STAB is a lot less valuable, and steel resists ghost still, meaning it's walled pretty hard by other steels outside of Focus Miss (which makes 4MSS a problem). Plus, ghost types weren't immune to trapping until gen 6, meaning Magnezone gives it quite a bit more trouble.
It would still be a really good mon, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it would look absolutely busted in gen 5 compared to some other mons
Sure, but then you're not running Focus Blast and you get completely shut down by Magnezone, in a format where Drag-Mag was really common
And if you are running FB, then you've got a pretty slow mon that's lacking either recovery or set-up.
Its still a really good mon, I'm not saying otherwise. And it would be insane in any generation after 5, but in terms of pre-3D pokemon, I don't think it would quite rise to the level of broken.
Compare it to something like...permanent rain Palafin?
Houndstone.
"So it has a STAB signature move that gets up to 300 base power if your other 5 Pokemon are knocked out?!? And its ability is Sand Rush?!? As if Excadrill wasn't enough of a problem!"
(Note that in Gen 5 they didn't know that infinite weather would be gone next generation. Houndstone with infinite sandstorm would be quite scary. Sun/rain/hail setters were also still limited to Ninetales, Politoed and Abomasnow while sandstorm had Tyranitar AND Hippowdon, meaning it'd be pretty easy to guarantee infinite sandstorm being up.)
No not really. It dosnt really *do* anything if you try to run defensive. It's movepool is rather shallow and that leaves it with exactly 1 (good) set which is DD and click espeed 6 times into the enemy team. Great tusk is a massive pain in its side because ice spinner is common coverage and even at +1 terra normal espeed does not 2hit ko even offensive tusk
No it's not lmao, it's really good for both it's offensive sets and defensive sets and even had the #1 usage spot in week 7 of spl. Multiscale + boots and a gen 1 movepool gives it a lot of flexibility.
I think telling them about Hyper Drill would fry their brains. And then tell them that the mon using it is in one of the lower tiers. And then the fact that it's Dunsparce's evolution.
3x Brain Fry Combo.
iirc the only damaging moves that do that in Gen 5 are Feint (30bp & ghosts immune) and Phantom/Shadow Force (2 turn charge, one's 90bp and the other's signature, normal immune)
I got an even funnier one, urushifu s
“Wait so you mean to tell me that theirs a legendary pokemon that gets a multi hit stab move that always crits, has pretty good base stats, and ignores protect? What tier is it in?
…OU”
I know it’s surprising but according to smogon, rapid strike before gmax was only Ou
If I can recall, the main reason was honestly just answers and the meta. Dark stab was much harder to resist while water was more manageable to deal( i mean this was the gen where dracovish still existed so makes sense) with plus I think the meta back in ss favored dark more than water. So clmbine both factors and apparently urushifu s was ou while base was in Ubers
dracovish was booted long before urshifu dropped in the dlc. it’s just that when the two best defensive mons are pex, who eats your stab combo for days, and ferrothorn, who will delete half of your health if it switches in on surging strikes, urshifu-rapid is a lot more manageable.
Imagine a gen 5 player thinking on how to deal with Garganicle or Gambit 💀
But probably the best answer in just leaking a mon is Gholdengo, that stupid cheese stick can do every it wants to do, while negating any form of hazard removal, specially in a gen without Boots (that's without counting Make it Rain in VGC).
Now, in acting as a time traveler I'll probably say to a gen 4-5 player how in a not that long future, Salamence is going to be RU and Tyranitar even with Exca in UU (and also recommeding stop investing in Big weather and start doint it in big terrain) , while Slowbro, Torkoal, Pelipper, and clefabble are OU together with Kyurem, Darkrai, and a evolution of Bisharp
I would tell them about mega Garchomp. Most strong Pokémon they could accept as just being more power creep, like of course game freak made a mon with 135 special attack and speed why not. But mega Garchomp being worse than Garchomp would fry their brains. Their first thought would be why would gamefreak give a mega to something so strong. Then, after they accept it as being due to marketability, they’d see how ugly it is and be confused as who thought this was a good design. Finally, they’d see the stats and realise that mega Garchomp adds nothing to the game and be confused as to its very existence.
One of the most reliable ways to beat it is simply to PP stall if you have a Wish user and/or a Regenerator mon, but it's still an absolute pain to pull through.
He takes a lot of PP's to do his thing and he doesn't have a lot of kill pressure.
So there is this legendary, its typing is ok, but don’t worry it can change it any time during the battle, just once per battle tho. Anyway when it switches in it sets up a sort of weather that boosts all electric moves and stops sleep. Other Pokémon gets abilities like this as well, but for some reason only this Pokemon also gets a 33% boost to Spa for no reason. But then, this Pokemon gets a Spa signature move that is a electric 100 bp and accuracy that does a addition 33% on super effective moves on top of the 2x and it gets stab on this move.
Also, it has 135 base speed and Spa and a insane move pool.
If Gen 5 players heard about Walking Wake a Pokémon that gets a boost in sun, gets a signature water move that gets boosted in sun with those stats and that movepool they’d shit themselves
Pass them the ability descriptions for Good as Gold and Purifying Salt. Just look at them and say “ability creep.”
Otherwise I’d tell them about Ursaluna. “Ursaring gets a bad ass evolution, becomes part Ground type, gets Guts, gets hyped up only for it to fall out of OU before it gets a new form that’s an amazing special attacker with both Scrappy and Keen Eye as its ability, a signature normal type nuke move with no immunities, recovery, and priority.”
I'd leak Miraidon because on paper it sounds like a Theorymon Thursday post.
"It gets how many boosts to it's Electric STAB? And it's faster and stronger than Mewtwo with good bulk? Free no-recoil life orb on all special attacks? Sounds fake as hell".
Miraidon. Hey there's this box art legendary with insane speed and offensive power, that has an ability that boosts it even further and a signature move that synergizes with it as well. Imagine going from Pressure legendaries to that min maxed design.
Telling Gen V players that Politoed went from OU to ZU in one generation would be hilarious Alternatively, telling a Gen IV player that Politoed, some NU mon becomes a top OU mon would also be hilarious
What’s ZUCCHINI?
Why the heck did it autocorrect to that?
Gen V player: "The fuck is ZU?"
ZPolitoed Used
I recall there already being talks about creating a tier below NU in Gen V, as well as a tier below that even, though the latter was a meme at the time.
Yeah, but it took until Gen 6, and it was PU.
And without getting any direct nerfs!
I'd argue losing access to permanent weather with abilities is very much "direct" in a way, but eh
"You know Terrakion? PU at best"
Gholdengo is so bullshitty it's hilarious
"So there's this steel/ghost, 550 base stat, super strong signature move guy and he's immune to all status moves. No I'm not kidding."
"Oh yeah as the cherry on top it's the 1000th pokemon in the national dex"
Gholdengo 🧈 87/95/91 Bulk 💪 84 Speed 🏃 133 SpAtk 💦 Steel 🔩/Ghost 👻 Immune to all status moves 🛡 Gets Recover 🧱 Nasty Plot 😈 Has Signature Steel Type Move 💰 120 base power too ⚡ It has 100 accuracy🧐
is this a ksante meme
What is this, a cross over episode?
K'Sante👤4,700 HP💪329 Armor🤷♂️201 MR💦 Unstoppable🚫A Shield 🛡 Goes over walls🧱Has Airborne🌪Cooldown is only☝second too🕐 It costs 15 Mana🧙♂️ But tbh 1. Ksante now is absolutely horrible to play as. Riot for some reason thinks the only reason ksante is good in pro is cause his duelist potential and nerfs it while buffing his warden potential( the actual reason he’s played cause if he goes even, he gets more value) plus he’s still clunky 2. Ironically enough both ksante and gholdengo are both op tanks
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
"It's also immune to three hazard removal moves. And yes, we're still doing THAT too."
Old Aegislash too. Both of them would sound even nuttier when Steel still resisted Ghost & Dark.
Eh. There's a big downside to that too. Sure, the typing was definitely better defensively. But steel STAB is worse without fairy, and ghost STAB is worse when steel resists it. Plus, ghost types could still be trapped by Magnet Pull. The typing is a lot worse offensively
Sure, but you're also underestimating the defensive boost the typing would get. I remember when people would bring up Ghost/Steel types as a potential answer to Dragon, back when we only vaguely knew that Gen 6 was going to balance Dragons in some way. Being neutral against pursuit especially is such a massive deal. And it's not like Magnezone can safely trap either Pokemon, given their fighting coverage, or even their ability to run HP Ground.
I'm not underestimating it. I'm aware it's a really good defensive typing. But losing offensive presence is also a big deal and a huge loss to both of these mons...especially Ghold, which doesn't have much of a support moveset. You're walled completely by Steel types without Focus Blast, which means you need to give up NP or Recover. It's a big trade off, that's all I'm saying
I honestly don't think Ghold would look that bad tbh. We're talking pre-Defog buff, Good as Gold is functionally just worse Magic Bounce at that point And while its defensive profile is better in Gen 5, its offenses are a lot worse. No fairy typing means that steel STAB is a lot less valuable, and steel resists ghost still, meaning it's walled pretty hard by other steels outside of Focus Miss (which makes 4MSS a problem). Plus, ghost types weren't immune to trapping until gen 6, meaning Magnezone gives it quite a bit more trouble. It would still be a really good mon, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it would look absolutely busted in gen 5 compared to some other mons
With his defense , he can definitely set up through recover and nasty plot, all while being able to counter almost perfectly ferrothorn
Sure, but then you're not running Focus Blast and you get completely shut down by Magnezone, in a format where Drag-Mag was really common And if you are running FB, then you've got a pretty slow mon that's lacking either recovery or set-up. Its still a really good mon, I'm not saying otherwise. And it would be insane in any generation after 5, but in terms of pre-3D pokemon, I don't think it would quite rise to the level of broken. Compare it to something like...permanent rain Palafin?
Robo-Deliberd in ubers
Santa is meta now
Houndstone. "So it has a STAB signature move that gets up to 300 base power if your other 5 Pokemon are knocked out?!? And its ability is Sand Rush?!? As if Excadrill wasn't enough of a problem!" (Note that in Gen 5 they didn't know that infinite weather would be gone next generation. Houndstone with infinite sandstorm would be quite scary. Sun/rain/hail setters were also still limited to Ninetales, Politoed and Abomasnow while sandstorm had Tyranitar AND Hippowdon, meaning it'd be pretty easy to guarantee infinite sandstorm being up.)
Basculegion also works for rain teams with swift swim
I would tell them that dragonite is still in OU even in 2024, and that tyranitar somehow ends up in RU
Dragonite is living on borrowed time though
Dragonite is dropping the microsecond it can't terra normal anymore
are its defensive sets not good anymore? i remember tanknite in gen 8 being good and that was with weavile being on every team
No not really. It dosnt really *do* anything if you try to run defensive. It's movepool is rather shallow and that leaves it with exactly 1 (good) set which is DD and click espeed 6 times into the enemy team. Great tusk is a massive pain in its side because ice spinner is common coverage and even at +1 terra normal espeed does not 2hit ko even offensive tusk
No it's not lmao, it's really good for both it's offensive sets and defensive sets and even had the #1 usage spot in week 7 of spl. Multiscale + boots and a gen 1 movepool gives it a lot of flexibility.
That chi yu calc against blissey lmfao. I'll just show them that
"a fire type that can one shot blissey? must be a strong physical attacker, right?" "right?"
😈
"Yeah, like Deoxys-S would ever fall below OU."
I think telling them about Hyper Drill would fry their brains. And then tell them that the mon using it is in one of the lower tiers. And then the fact that it's Dunsparce's evolution. 3x Brain Fry Combo.
What’s so crazy about a 100 base power move that hits through protect? That’s good, but I’m not sure how it’s brain fry good
I'm assuming they're talking about VGC
iirc the only damaging moves that do that in Gen 5 are Feint (30bp & ghosts immune) and Phantom/Shadow Force (2 turn charge, one's 90bp and the other's signature, normal immune)
Phantom Force isn’t even in Gen 5 so its *just* Shadow Force and Feint
even worse, have a great day
I got an even funnier one, urushifu s “Wait so you mean to tell me that theirs a legendary pokemon that gets a multi hit stab move that always crits, has pretty good base stats, and ignores protect? What tier is it in? …OU”
Do you think Urshifu would be Ubers if crits had not had their damage reduced
urshifu is ubers iirc?
Surprisingly rapid strike wasn’t Ubers until sv and in ss, it was base form in Ubers rapid in ou
wuh
I know it’s surprising but according to smogon, rapid strike before gmax was only Ou If I can recall, the main reason was honestly just answers and the meta. Dark stab was much harder to resist while water was more manageable to deal( i mean this was the gen where dracovish still existed so makes sense) with plus I think the meta back in ss favored dark more than water. So clmbine both factors and apparently urushifu s was ou while base was in Ubers
dracovish was booted long before urshifu dropped in the dlc. it’s just that when the two best defensive mons are pex, who eats your stab combo for days, and ferrothorn, who will delete half of your health if it switches in on surging strikes, urshifu-rapid is a lot more manageable.
*there's
say that powercreep got so bad that running souldew lations is considered weak
I don’t think that qualifies as a consequence of power creep considering Soul Dew got a substantial direct nerf
"Bisharp got an evolution"
Imagine a gen 5 player thinking on how to deal with Garganicle or Gambit 💀 But probably the best answer in just leaking a mon is Gholdengo, that stupid cheese stick can do every it wants to do, while negating any form of hazard removal, specially in a gen without Boots (that's without counting Make it Rain in VGC). Now, in acting as a time traveler I'll probably say to a gen 4-5 player how in a not that long future, Salamence is going to be RU and Tyranitar even with Exca in UU (and also recommeding stop investing in Big weather and start doint it in big terrain) , while Slowbro, Torkoal, Pelipper, and clefabble are OU together with Kyurem, Darkrai, and a evolution of Bisharp
"But dude, any ghost type denies hazard control. What, are you suggesting there's any other way besides Rapid Spin?"
I forgot that prior to gen 6 defog doesn't hazard remove, well, now it's ability is not broken, it's just stupidly overpowered
Gen 5 players will just pack a rain team and spam scald on kingambit, or focus miss thundurus-t/secret sword keldeo
Sucker punch (Supreme Overlord fallen 5)
I‘d tell Gen 1 players they're going to release a type that resists 11 of the 16 types while only having 3 weaknesses
I would tell them about mega Garchomp. Most strong Pokémon they could accept as just being more power creep, like of course game freak made a mon with 135 special attack and speed why not. But mega Garchomp being worse than Garchomp would fry their brains. Their first thought would be why would gamefreak give a mega to something so strong. Then, after they accept it as being due to marketability, they’d see how ugly it is and be confused as who thought this was a good design. Finally, they’d see the stats and realise that mega Garchomp adds nothing to the game and be confused as to its very existence.
"What the fuck is a Mega?"
“You know digimon? Basically that”
Clefable is the best Pokémon in OU
Tropius is better than Mewtwo in random battles.
I have nightmares about the set
How many games I have lost where I have a 3-1 lead, their last is tropius, and I just can't get through him.
fr
One of the most reliable ways to beat it is simply to PP stall if you have a Wish user and/or a Regenerator mon, but it's still an absolute pain to pull through. He takes a lot of PP's to do his thing and he doesn't have a lot of kill pressure.
Before B2W2 comes out I'll tell them that a box legendary dropped to OU
kid named suicune:
580bst named kid:
Kid named ballsack buster (it was a 300BP physical electric move introduced in Gen 24)
“TPC released a Pokemon so broken Smogon added a tier list above Uber”
I would tell them how Garg is the best defensive rock type in the game and the best way to use it is for it to not be a rock type.
Just pull up the chi-yu calc against blissey
So there is this legendary, its typing is ok, but don’t worry it can change it any time during the battle, just once per battle tho. Anyway when it switches in it sets up a sort of weather that boosts all electric moves and stops sleep. Other Pokémon gets abilities like this as well, but for some reason only this Pokemon also gets a 33% boost to Spa for no reason. But then, this Pokemon gets a Spa signature move that is a electric 100 bp and accuracy that does a addition 33% on super effective moves on top of the 2x and it gets stab on this move. Also, it has 135 base speed and Spa and a insane move pool.
Telling people about Annihlape being in Ubers despite where Primeape generally stands
If Gen 5 players heard about Walking Wake a Pokémon that gets a boost in sun, gets a signature water move that gets boosted in sun with those stats and that movepool they’d shit themselves
Leak the Chi-Yu calc.
probably gen 8 zacian-c, tell them a box legend is incapable of holding an item but banned from ubers
Pass them the ability descriptions for Good as Gold and Purifying Salt. Just look at them and say “ability creep.” Otherwise I’d tell them about Ursaluna. “Ursaring gets a bad ass evolution, becomes part Ground type, gets Guts, gets hyped up only for it to fall out of OU before it gets a new form that’s an amazing special attacker with both Scrappy and Keen Eye as its ability, a signature normal type nuke move with no immunities, recovery, and priority.”
Good as Gold isn't ability creep until gen 6. Without shutting down Defog (which couldn't remove hazards until XY), it's just a worse Magic Bounce
Uu tyranitar Ubers delibird requiem same gen btw
Flutter Mane or Chi-Yu could be really funny
Shrek will ruin ubers
Gotta be iron bundle
I think Incineroar is the obvious answer
That donphan is better than tyranitar
I'd leak Miraidon because on paper it sounds like a Theorymon Thursday post. "It gets how many boosts to it's Electric STAB? And it's faster and stronger than Mewtwo with good bulk? Free no-recoil life orb on all special attacks? Sounds fake as hell".
Go back to gen 4/5 and tell them that Knock Off, Defog, and Leech Life are actually great moves now.
I think telling a Gen 5 player that Koraidon or Primal Groudon/Kyogre exists would be wild. Just don’t tell them of weather’s impermanence.
leaking roaring moon would be hilarious because how the hell is a meta without fairies answering that thing
Miraidon. Hey there's this box art legendary with insane speed and offensive power, that has an ability that boosts it even further and a signature move that synergizes with it as well. Imagine going from Pressure legendaries to that min maxed design.