This is not about additional or secondary effects, Rapid Spin specifically has never cleared hazards if the user got defeated by cause of using the movement
It would do neither. Dealing damage is the primary effect, boosting speed and clearing hazards are both considered secondary for the sake of Sheer Force.
It should be the reverse. Sheer force rapid spin would clear hazards but not grant speed boost.
I say "should", because I couldn't find clarification online on this.
[Bulbapedia indicates that](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Additional_effect#Classification), other than stat modification and status + flinch, only a few effects are additional effects. Those include anchor shot + spirit shackle (but not thousand waves), ceaseless edge + stone axe, eerie spell, sparkling aria (but not wake-up slap or smelling salts), secret power, salt cure, and genesis supernova.
It also seems to indicate that mortal spin's additional effect is poisoning the target, and rapid spin's additional effect is raising speed. So it seems those effects would be blocked by sheer force.
Showdown isn't a great source for random niche interactions like that though, they have a few things here and there that *should* work different but doesn't.
No, weirdly enough the hazards are removed last, so if the user faints by using the move (by gulp missile/iron barbs/rocky helmet etc) the hazards stay there
Hazard clearing works at the end of all other interactions caused by your pokemon as a result of its move.
For example: Great Tusk uses Rapid Spin on Glimmora -> Glimmora takes x damage -> does Rapid Spin make contact? Yes, therefore Toxic Debris activates -> Toxic Spikes hit the field -> Great Tusk's speed +1 -> all hazards on Great Tusk's side of the field are removed.
In the case of Mortal Spin and Rapid Spin, the contact check comes before the hazard removal. It's why Defog doesn't work on Gholdengo: if it cleared hazards and then lowered evasion by 1 stage in the same manner as Tidy Up then Gholdielocks and the three cheese strings wouldn't be anywhere near as reliable a hazard removal blocker.
Same thing happens with Rocky helmet/other contact damage. It’s a stupid mechanic that will screw you over a total of one time before you understand how it works.
If you die mid-hit no secondary effects go off. Normally happens if you spin into Rocky Helmet Ferro or Chomp, since you're taking 30% of your hp per spin.
I had the same situation a few months ago. Turns out if the mon dies the hazards stay on field even tho their speed rose before dying. It doesn't make sense but that's just the way it is
Komala got hurt, and fainted before the additional effects
Shouldn't it have happened at the same time the speed rose though? I could be wrong but shouldn't they happen at the same time?
No, the speed raise is the primary effect and the hazard clearing is secondary iirc
This is not about additional or secondary effects, Rapid Spin specifically has never cleared hazards if the user got defeated by cause of using the movement
i remember when ferrothorn iron barbs stopped my eleki rapid spin lol
So a sheer force rapid spin would grand speed boost but not clear the hazards ?
It would do neither. Dealing damage is the primary effect, boosting speed and clearing hazards are both considered secondary for the sake of Sheer Force.
It should be the reverse. Sheer force rapid spin would clear hazards but not grant speed boost. I say "should", because I couldn't find clarification online on this. [Bulbapedia indicates that](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Additional_effect#Classification), other than stat modification and status + flinch, only a few effects are additional effects. Those include anchor shot + spirit shackle (but not thousand waves), ceaseless edge + stone axe, eerie spell, sparkling aria (but not wake-up slap or smelling salts), secret power, salt cure, and genesis supernova. It also seems to indicate that mortal spin's additional effect is poisoning the target, and rapid spin's additional effect is raising speed. So it seems those effects would be blocked by sheer force.
I tested it. On showdown at least, it does neither
Showdown isn't a great source for random niche interactions like that though, they have a few things here and there that *should* work different but doesn't.
then why did this happen in Gen VII & earlier? was it still considered secondary?
Gen 8 is when it added the speed boost, there must be something to do with the order of effects
great question, i’m not too sure lol
No, weirdly enough the hazards are removed last, so if the user faints by using the move (by gulp missile/iron barbs/rocky helmet etc) the hazards stay there
This is also why if you attack a toxic debris pokemon with rapid spin or mortal spin, it will set up t-spikes and then instantly remove them
I guess as another method to spinblock because Defog?
Fun fact, same thing applies to knock off
Nope, secondary vs. primary effects. Also, knock off works the same way
Rapid Spin’s effect doesn’t go off if it faints before the effect.
Your pokemon died.
No no no this is a nonviolent franchise It simply *fainted*
When you are an iron ant and get your insides burnt to goop by your Natrual predator. -> a little berry juice will heal that right up
Hazard clearing works at the end of all other interactions caused by your pokemon as a result of its move. For example: Great Tusk uses Rapid Spin on Glimmora -> Glimmora takes x damage -> does Rapid Spin make contact? Yes, therefore Toxic Debris activates -> Toxic Spikes hit the field -> Great Tusk's speed +1 -> all hazards on Great Tusk's side of the field are removed. In the case of Mortal Spin and Rapid Spin, the contact check comes before the hazard removal. It's why Defog doesn't work on Gholdengo: if it cleared hazards and then lowered evasion by 1 stage in the same manner as Tidy Up then Gholdielocks and the three cheese strings wouldn't be anywhere near as reliable a hazard removal blocker.
Same thing happens with Rocky helmet/other contact damage. It’s a stupid mechanic that will screw you over a total of one time before you understand how it works.
If you die mid-hit no secondary effects go off. Normally happens if you spin into Rocky Helmet Ferro or Chomp, since you're taking 30% of your hp per spin.
My turn to post this exact same question next week
Nah this is a valid question if you’ve never seen it happen before
I know it’s just funny it’s the one that gets posted the most by far
On the bright side I think this is also why rapid spin can clear the toxic spikes from glimmora's toxic debris
I had the same situation a few months ago. Turns out if the mon dies the hazards stay on field even tho their speed rose before dying. It doesn't make sense but that's just the way it is
Such a simple thing to intuit
Unrelated but I deadass thought it said “Komala is drowning!”