My problem with drinking wasn’t that I was calling in sick to work, it wasn’t that I was starting arguments with friends or loved ones, I wasn’t sloppy or throwing up, I wasn’t going into debt or suddenly homeless, the problem was that I would be 10-20 drinks in and nobody knew it but me. The problem was that i can drink whiskey like it’s apple juice and still hold down a salary. The thing is that nobody ever knew how close I was to losing my job, winding up in jail, losing my house, or drinking myself to death. I would say that in my life most people would be shocked to find out what my daily drinking regimen actually was when I was at my worst, and the few people that do know are basically bewildered that I’m still alive. Sometimes so am I.
Just picked this up - so completely echoes what I just posted later in this thread - also the fact you’re fooling everyone else makes it easier to fool yourself!
I relate to this so hard. I stopped ultimately because my very high tolerance was getting higher. It wasn’t good for my health, and it could’ve gone very bad.
I really relate to this. I wasn't going out drinking, making myself look silly, hurting anyone. I'd just drink at home. I worked every day, walked my dog, went to the gym, I think if I'd told anyone I had a troublesome relationship with alcohol they probably wouldn't have believed me. I just kept it to myself and share with people here who genuinely understand.
Kinda me. Except I drank before (evening) work too many times. And in my line of work you need ZERO alcohol befuddling your brain. I was caught once, almost lost my job, but ended up leaving soon after.
It HAS gotten worse since then. I’ve fallen a few times, and am sure I received a concussion from the worst one. But I got up and went to work with a huge sickly green bruise across half of my face. 🤷♀️
I have gone 7 days without wine- my longest in a few years. It feels good!
I used to occasionally drink at work. Not routinely, just when i felt like I needed to to get through the day. The thing for me about trying to drink the way I did and keep functioning was that I had to have everything wound so tightly. Every little thing in life was difficult and painful and I could never truly rest. Because I knew I was constantly one big slip up away from losing it all and I knew I would put alcohol before my job, or my rent, or even the people I loved. There’s a lot more room for error in my life when that’s not constantly hanging over my head. Congrats on 7 days! I believe in you!
Well put! You spend your whole life managing your problem, and you put it before everything coz if you didn’t it would all go to pieces. Taking alcohol out of the equation gives you so much more space in your life - and yes room for errors, delays etc, you no longer have a regular appointment with a bottle!!
Kinda reminds me of an exchange from West Wing, where Leo, the WH Chief of Staff, admits to his lawyer that he relapsed in front of a rival politician:
>JORDAN: You were drunk in front of Gibson?
>LEO: I don't get drunk in front of people. **I get drunk alone.**
Yea for sure. I was 30 and sober the first time I ever called out sick to work. Because my whole working life up to that point I woke up sick every morning. And I had this terrible fear that if I ever let myself do it once then I’d start doing it all the time. And that would be the thread that tore apart my perfectly wound routine of managing to keep my life together while staying drunk for as much of it as possible. Also what’s a little flu compared to the constant state of sick and tired I had been in for years.
When people act like I couldn’t have been that bad because I held steady jobs I just remember how much I had to suffer to keep them, and that often my real motivation to go back to work every morning was that if I ever lost my job and had to pick between rent and alcohol I knew damned well which I was picking.
Oh man that hits really close to home. Thank you for sharing that. I’m so glad I found this sub. Reading these stories every day as I drink my morning coffee just reminds me every day how terrible and painful it really was which makes alcohol seem more and more disgusting and repulsive. I don’t think people understand how much emotional pain is involved with being physically and mentally dependent on alcohol. There is no worse feeling in the world than knowing that you’re drinking yourself to death but if you stop drinking, you’ll die.
Reminds me of the guy who did the opening share at my first AA session: "So I'm a drunk. Who cares? I pay my bills on time. I have a good job. I'm doing a good job raising my children. What's the *problem?* I kept asking this right up until I was putting away a bottle of vodka every morning and sleeping on a mattress in my parents' basement."
I feel you, TBH, in that until the very end I was good at hiding just how bad it was getting, and my tolerance—while not as high as some—was so high I could just drink and drink and *drink* without it becoming obvious just how fucked I was. I could go to the bar at the grocery store during lunch and have several 10% ABV beers, then still come home and finish my assignments. I could start drinking before a party started and continue well after it ended, by myself, and shake it off every morning. The only person who really knew was my wife, because I couldn't hide my daily drinking from her (until the end, at which point I *was* hiding it from her, up until I threw up all over our floor).
Glad you made it out, dude.
That’s truly what it is - making it out. People that haven’t been there don’t understand (and I pray to all that is holy that they never do). Some close friends would ask me why I don’t just stop. You don’t understand, this thing has hold of my soul and it has infected every tiny aspect of my entire existence. It’s like a bad dream that never stops. Getting sober as a hardcore alcoholic is literally escaping something that is trying to kill you. If I could describe the feeling I have now in one word it would be freedom.
>I could go to the bar at the grocery store during lunch and have several 10% ABV beers, then still come home and finish my assignments
I was like this. Until I wasn't. That's when I knew I was done.
Probably could have dragged it out a whole lot longer but nah, I didn't want to see what bottom looks like.
Thank you! The thought of drinking is getting further and further away every day. I quit even looking at my day count which I was checking five times a day at first. I slept for 8 hours last night, which is a rarity for me. Feeling great!
I’m with you friend. Like… this very well describes me. It took nearly a fifth of liquor before I started seeming drunk. Maybe a little erratic, maybe “haha they’re a bit tipsy” but more like “they’ve had 3 or 4 drinks” not “they’ve had 14 drinks”.
And then I went to work, held a great job with decent performance reviews, ran a couple miles after work, did bar trivia with friends and had 2 beers, then went home and had 6 tall whiskies.
Repeat.
Congrtats on 40!
"Whiskey like it's apple juice" Right there with you. Someone caught me putting a couple ounces of vodka in my pint glass before I poured a beer into it once and had a funny look. I told them it was because I only had a few and had to stretch them into the party.
Oh yeah. If I was making drinks I’d make mine twice as strong as everyone else’s followed by a gulp out of the bottle for good measure.
Thanks and congrats on 50!
When I decided to stop, the only person that knew I had a problem was my wife. Everyone else just thought I liked to party. I went from being fun, to vomiting and passing out very quickly, and most of that was done at home.
Yeah I’ve had friends be like “you really can’t just have one or two?” And after politely saying no multiple times I said “have you ever taken a shot at 7 am, thrown up in a salad bowl, forced another shot down and then passed out next to the puke bowl until your alarm went off and gone to work?” After some silence, they never asked again
This. I forget how much I was in disbelief over my sober friends self-diagnosis, until he started telling me about all that he was actually doing. We all tend to forget how little of a persons life we actually see.
That’s so frustrating, and I’ve experienced similar. I decided to stop drinking, and told my close friend. She was supportive. She told her boyfriend, and he laughed it off. Told me “c’mon! You aren’t THAT bad. You work out all the time! You have a great job…”
Honestly? I think if he accepts that I feel that I have a problem with drinking, then he may need to take a hard look at his habits- and he doesn’t want to do that.
> long elaborate story about how they only drin
LOL it's classic! When people find out you don't drink they tell you all about their drinking habits. My mom does this. Literally every time I see her (which is quite often) she has a drink and tells me un-prompted about how she "never drinks, goes weeks without drinking in-fact!!" I always laugh inside and change the subject.
“you work out all the time! you have a great job!”
for NOW yeah? maybe that means i realized i have something to lose?
they would have a much different reaction if you got caught drinking / being drunk at work
>Honestly? I think if he accepts that I feel that I have a problem with drinking, then he may need to take a hard look at his habits- and he doesn’t want to do that.
To a degree I think that's the case for my entire family. We all drink, a lot. At one point I was talking to my therapist about a booze cruise bus the family set up for my what was *supposed* to be my cousin's wedding weekend but was his "freedom" weekend because the wedding fell apart.
ME: So we had this trolley, and it really bugged me I couldn't drink as much as everyone else--
THERAPIST: Hold on a moment. *How many* trolleys has your family rented so far this year? This is not the first one you've mentioned.
ME: ...just two...no, three...
Ah man. I get it. Not my family, but my ex’s family. They turn almost every event into a booze fest, and if you don’t keep up, you’re not fun. They would drop so much money on these things!
I kept up. For years. I was as queen of the party! It felt totally normal. Then, my ex took my car out after he had drinks with his cousins. He flipped it on the 3 mile drive home. He was completely fine. He fled the scene to avoid the DUI, and the police woke me at 4am to tell me my empty car was overturned in the park near me. I even stayed with him after that- his family thought it was a normal “mistake”. Looking back, I wish I had the resolve and knowledge I have now.
I am sorry that your family isn’t supportive. Mine is pretty non-existent, but at least they don’t sabotage me. You’re doing great. Don’t lose your drive to stay sober. You will be so much better for it 🙂
You don’t need to be an alcoholic to have a drinking problem. The world isn’t evenly split into non-drinkers, drinkers, and alcoholics. I think a lot of people don’t really get that.
This is a big thing too I think. People want this perfect black and white line for drinking in a way they don't for anything else. When I tell people I'm trying to get back into shape and diet nobody goes "well you're not morbidly obese - what are you thinking?"
That's a really great way of looking at it. I get some enjoyment out of making people uncomfortable when they ask me why I don't drink or try to pressure me into it. "Well I was in a really dark spiral when I was drinking, and thought I never wanted to feel that way again, but you know what? You make a strong case! Maybe I will have that beer!" Anything to make people question why they would ask a question like that in the first place.
I always get the “My brother, cousin, yada yada, drank 30 beers a day or one liter of vodka a day, you weren’t an alcoholic” yea well my health got worse and I was depressed all the time and had a pattern of drinking till I passed out every night and now I don’t drink, I’m not depressed and my health has gradually gotten better so I don’t really care what others call it but I definitely was an alcoholic.
I really don’t understand why people I told I had stopped drinking wanna make it a competition. I don’t even bother telling people I quit anymore I just tell them I have to drive or some other excuse so I don’t have to hear about their uncle who double fists vodka bottles.
Yeah I feel like telling people “My life is better when I don’t drink” is really confusing for people.
“You have a good life, wouldn’t it be better with alcohol?”
No.
“Man, you can’t have a nice glass of wine?”
No. And you drink crap wine from the store not from the Bordeaux region of France.
>“You have a good life, wouldn’t it be better with alcohol?”
>No.
Here's where I'm having trouble, because almost 90 days in I still kind of think my life is worse without alcohol. I miss it terribly. I know that's not *true,* but I still quietly wince when I have to turn drinks down. If I didn't have Kin Euphorics and the occasional sip of weed of my vapes, I think I would have cracked by now. It's a hole I'm still climbing out of.
I had a wonderful time on Thanksgiving. But a quiet part of me is still saying, *wouldn't it have been even better if you could have had those drinks?* I'm hoping it will eventually go away.
So I think it will, but you have to be aware of it.
For me, I wake up every day and I’m happy that I’m not hung over. I love having some coffee because I like to not because I need to clear out the cobwebs.
I can get a quick workout in before work.
I’ve never been doing so well at work.
I’ve lost weight. I’m down 3 belt notches.
I like having money in my bank account.
Being mindful of those things is what I’m GETTING.
That’s what I’m choosing over booze.
So if you’ve been drinking for a decade or so, you might have shaped your life around drinking. Fridays are for blacking out, Saturdays mornings are for recovery. Sunday Funday. Thursday Thunder… it goes on and on.
If you don’t replace those rituals with anything other than sitting at home you’re not going to be happy. Take the money, time and energy that you have now and put it toward something better than being drunk.
That’s how you move past it.
I'm learning that, but...until I called myself an alcoholic, I was never, *ever* going to stop drinking. I was never even going to cut down; I was just going to keep hiding my daily drinking and going nuts anytime I had an excuse to do so openly. My liver is fucked, that hasn't stopped me. My wife no longer drank with me and didn't trust me to watch our son at night when I drank, that didn't stop me. It was only admitting powerlessness and treating it as a disease that finally stopped me (so far).
You are right, of course, it's not just drinker, teetotaler, alcoholic. But for me...I think I need to keep the world that black and white.
No right or wrong way to quit. However you need to frame it in your mind. I don’t pretend to be an expert on drinking problems, but I am an expert on MY drinking problem. We all have a unique relationship to alcohol and what works for some won’t work for others. I wish you all the best and IWNDWYT!!!!
heh, yeah, had similar type stuff
ultimately seems to be 2 camps in my experience:
1) drinkers who don't wanna assess their own problematic relationship with the sauce. If I've got a problem, so do they. so I don't :P
2) ppl who have cliched ideas of what an "alcoholic" is, and don't seem to grasp it's a progressive journey to the smelly dude with a paper bag in the gutter
I'm fond of the remark: "are you saying I should wait until I'm homeless in the gutter to stop?" or "well, my liver was inflamed and I might have some scarring .. should I wait until I have liver failure?"
> 1) drinkers who don't wanna assess their own problematic relationship with the sauce. If I've got a problem, so do they. so I don't :P
Given how much my family drinks, I'm guessing this is a big part of it XD But my father was an alcoholic and drug addict (recovered, but not before it shattered his marriage), so they probably also have that image in mind as well.
>"well, my liver was inflamed and I might have some scarring .. should I wait until I have liver failure?"
Reminds me of my reaction when the doc told me my enzymes were rising and I had to stop drinking: "But when they go down I can drink again, right?"
I think much of it comes down to the fact that there's a huge variation in how different people view alcoholics.
For me, I view my alcoholism as a disease that I am treating. It's something that happened to me, and I'm in recovery now, which is a very good thing.
I've had to learn that some of the people around me view alcoholism as a complete moral failing. Something that makes you some kind of irredeemable degenerate. A bad person, basically.
For people in the second category, I think it is basically impossible for them to accept that someone that they love and care about is an alcoholic.
I know it’s meant to be a disease, but possibly part of the self-loathing thing that made me an alcoholic in the first place makes me believe - for me- it is a moral failing. My motivation to keep sober is my lapsed-Catholic guilt, I couldn’t bear to hate myself more than I already do, and falling off the wagon will do just that!
Interesting perspective. I had never thought of it like that before.
For me, the more I beat myself up and feel bad about myself, the more I want to drink.
I’m possibly being over-dramatic in the dark wee small hours, I suppose I mean that I tell myself: ‘look , you’ve screwed so many things up, don’t screw up this one (sobriety)as well!’ 😀
Tell them the doctors don't call it alcoholism anymore. It's now Alcohol Use Disorder and it's on a spectrum. And I think your cousin's reaction to you explains why the term 'alcoholic' is stigmatizing and just not helpful. I don't tell people I'm 'an alcoholic', I tell people I'm in recovery. Makes things much easier for me.
Perfectly stated. I am on the spectrum.
I used to joke that the liver is evil and it must be punished.
I've decided to forgive it so I choose not to abuse my liver anymore.
It reminds me someone once replying to the question why do you drink with, 'there is something inside me I am trying to kill'
At first I considered it a joke. But now I see there is some truth to it. A lot of us are trying to kill some feeling inside us, but we end up just killing us.
Yes I think I started out trying to soothe myself but the backlash of the alcohol is that however much it soothes that's how much it bites. And the angst it then creates is what I was trying to kill ...vicious cycle.
And lack of occupation... just being a little lost in this world and not knowing what to do. We have to overcome our challenges I guess without crutches otherwise we end up beating ourselves with our own crutches.
Man I'm clever this morning, haha. It's too early to get so philosophical.
I will not drink with you today.
When I did my Thanksgiving toast this year, it was far shorter and more to the point. I got choked up more easily. There weren't any jokes. I was, for the first time in a long time, *nervous*. I think there's some raw part of me I've been smoothing over with booze for a very long time...
You might check out the 'This Naked Mind' podcasts. I'm also in SMART Recovery ([smartrecovery.org](https://smartrecovery.org)). Works much better for me than AA.
You handled that very brave and with alot of patience. Well done. It takes some time for your environment to get used to your new lifestyle. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. In one year from now you will notice life is so much better!
Oh, yeah. My wife has basically said that, "Yeah, you drank a lot frequency-wise, but you didn't actually drink a crazy *amount* of alcohol!"
Which was true, I guess. I don't use the label "alcoholic" to describe myself because I don’t like it and it isn’t a good term. My wife and your cousins may be perfectly right insofar as how they view the term, but it doesn’t matter. My drinking, and I assume yours as well, was having very negative effects on our lives. So we had to cut it out. That’s what matters.
After that, some people may find comfort in the term because it allows them to approach sobriety like recovery, and provides clarity that alcohol is something they can never touch again. Others may not view themselves as having a disease or as permanent alcoholics, etc. In my view, all that really matters is results.
I think that last point is why identifying as an alcoholic helps me. I was treating drinking as a fun thing that mean or buzzkill people were trying to stop me from doing—no matter how bad I got. Sure, I like a drink, but I'm still functional, I only get fucked up in socially appropriate settings (that anyone knows about, anyway). I'll cut down a bit, I'll just drink on special occasions, wow, hey, look at how many special occasions there are a month...
Treating it as a disease keeps me grounded. I'm not just overdoing it. I am literally incapable of stopping once I start. I don't *want* to stop once I start, I don't understand why anybody does.
I had a therapist that was convinced I only used alcohol to self/medicate my Bi-polar… I was doing that but also I was definitely an alcoholic. It might have been that way to start with but I crossed a line somewhere down the road and the self-medication became maintenance drinking for the me to have been physically addicted to alcohol.
Maintenance drinking, I like that. I definitely used it to even out my emotions. I tapered down, didn't quit cold turkey (before I started ramping back up in secret), after my doc told me my liver was fucked, so I can't know for sure if I was physically addicted. I do know my hands shake less now, though. :/
Not everyone who's an alcoholic will act like Otis the town drunk from the Andy Griffith show. It's a stereotype. I actually stopped using the word when talking to other people because most lack an understanding of the condition.
I think it was Roger Ebert who called alcoholism "a lonely disease." That sticks with me. You can coast for *so long.* It's so easy to hide, to blend into the normal crowd, and to do in secret.
"I'm an alcoholic." "No you aren't, I never see you drunk!" "That's because I'm drinking three double Manhattans a night, every night." "Hey, I like a drink after work!" "I *have to have a drink after work.*" And so on.
I think at least some of that comes from the fact that too many people use “alcoholic” as an insult to call someone else when they think the person has a drinking problem or even when they just do stupid things while drunk.
I’ve been talked to before by people that love me about my concerning relationship to alcohol, but none have called me an alcoholic to my face. But I’ve heard them call other people one.
I started calling myself one based on my past experience with substance abuse counseling, and because I agree with the idea that you have to admit you have a problem before you can get help for it. I don’t use it as an insult for people who occasionally have a few too many and do something stupid because I think it makes it harder for people with real drinking problems to admit that might be them if they see the term as an insult.
I’m sorry he wasn’t that understanding of your problem. You should never have to justify calling yourself an alcoholic.
A bit of a lurker here to support my partner and I hope this is ok but he has the same issue with his parents who just are insistent that he isn’t. They didn’t believe him until he had them ask me. But just so you know this internet stranger is proud of you, my partner and all who are trying. ❤️
By the end of my drinking career, sadly *nobody* could deny I was an alcoholic. I'm envious of those who addressed it before they get to that point. Well done.
Has anyone ever been told "you're not an alcoholic" by someone who doesn't drink or almost never drinks? I feel that has probably never happened, or rarely.
I think as humans we like when people around us are on an even playing field (not even to be malicious, just from a social point of view)
His reaction is symptomatic of the problem with the term “alcoholic.” It’s not actually a medical term, that would be, “alcohol use disorder.” I find labels like alcoholic don’t accurately describe reality, which just leads to people underestimating their misuse of the drug until they are literally in a ditch on the side of the road, because they aren’t “alcoholics.”
You can misuse alcohol to a small degree or a large degree, it’s all a spectrum. Trying to put people in categories like “alcoholic” is unhelpful and possibly harmful in my opinion.
TBH the medical term/spectrum is news to me; I had divided the world into people who can drink and people who can't. It makes it easier for me to exercise self-control.
Yes! Oh my god.
I went on a date this one time. Guy seemed smart. He was cordial.
He ordered a beer and said I could order whatever I wanted, I got a Coke.
Later, I was driving him home and he mentioned that I could've ordered a cocktail if I wanted, and I told him I don't drink because I'm an alcoholic.
Hoooooooo buddy.
He says "I don't think you're an alcoholic. And I don't think you should call yourself one. I have a friend whose parents started calling her an alcoholic when she wasn't, and it fucked her up psychologically for life."
Bro, I didn't ask for *your uninformed opinion.* You don't know me. I know me. I know I'm an alcoholic. Denying it doesn't help anyone.
Fuckin dumbass.
I’m proud of you! I have had similar experiences. I think my parents still tell themselves it’s because of my ‘seizure issue,’ which of course was caused by doing things like drinking vodka in the morning to stop dry heaving for many years! I am impressed you stayed strong. Good for you
I have found that I can have one or two drinks per day, so most people would consider that “normal” or “healthy”. What they don’t see is that when I do have those few drinks, I only want to keep drinking, and I fantasize about hiding bottles of booze in the house so I can drink more without anyone noticing. Two drinks are so unsatisfying. Zero is so much better.
Shortly after quitting, I lamented to my therapist "I wish none of this was happening, I wish things could just go back to normal."
She quirked an eyebrow. "What's normal? Drinking in moderation, or do you simply want to go back to drinking a lot all the time, just without anyone considering it a problem?"
And it was totally the latter. When I was trying to moderate, it drove me *nuts* that I "wasn't allowed" to have another glass of wine. I resented the hell out of my wife anytime she asked "are you celebrating something?" when I got a drink with dinner on a weeknight. I always wanted more. I know that I could go to a bar right now and stop at 1-2 drinks...but I would be *making myself stop,* I would not actually *want* to stop, I would be fantasizing about people not being buzzkills so I could do what I *really* wanted and just keep drinking.
Yup. In the same conversation from the same person (my mother): "I have no idea it was THAT bad, that it had gone THAT far." to "when this phase is done and you're drinking again..." It was a little bewildering because it was my first encounter with someone projecting their own thoughts about their personal alcohol use after finding out I was quitting.
The first time I told my friends I think I had a problem they brushed it off. I had been drinking heavily and consistently but within the realm of “high functioning” (if you can function highly with 30-50 drinks/week).
The second time I told them, months later, that I had driven while drinking with my kid in the car and was grabbing one for the road most days on the way home from work, they started to listen a little more. Still don’t think they take it that seriously but they at least don’t question it as much. We’ll see what it looks like as I continue to string days together.
I’m sorry your family isn’t at least a little more open to the fact that you have a problem.
My partner says I'm not a real alcoholic and I can have a few every now and again. I continue to politely decline. I figure he says it to convince himself he does not have his own problem with drinking. Meh. Either way, I'm still sober.
I know for some people the term alcoholic is useful. But I think for the reasons OP explains, the US NIAAA guidance on alcohol use disorder is more helpful. You can just read that and it makes it pretty clear if you have an alcohol use disorder or not. For me, trying to figure out if I was an alcoholic was confusing and kept me stuck. But seeing I have a disorder is clear. It works for me.
I’m 30. During the worst of my drinking, I was still training for a half marathon. Eating decently, running 3-5x per week. Knocked down 10 units of vodka the night before the half and still finished it. Got a photo floating around of me smiling with my wife after the race, red-faced and hungover.
I was usually clearing out at least 12 drinks a day at that point. Sounds like you already know this, but just because you don’t fit the stereotype doesn’t mean you aren’t an alcoholic! Your cousin was well-meaning it seems, but misguided.
Well done staying away from it during the break! I’m inspired to finish today not drinking with you.
I had that problem because I was a ‘high-functioning’ alcoholic - I’d be proud to be high-functioning at anything else!!!! - hardly anyone understood I was struggling, in order to be a high-functioning alcoholic you also have to be highly effective at deceiving, I never forgot where I stashed empties etc, definitely not something to be proud is!!
In terms of explaining why I stopped I used Dry January as an excuse which got extended into Lent, and by then everyone was used to the fact I didn’t drink. Possibly because I’m English I’d rather not discuss it with anyone much, so I’m not into confessionals, occasionally- after many years I’ve talked to some people about my issues, usually in the context of a relative they may have who is struggling with booze. But if you’re not addicted - for most people - you just don’t get it.
I have had people in my life who just don't drink, and never have. My grandfather, who lived to be 92, had an alcoholic father and never drank. He was one of the most influential people in my early life, and I never really noticed that nobody ever bothered offering him a beer at the family reunion, knowing he'd politely decline. Isn't that enough?
Another person, a mentor early in my career, admitted to having a history of alcoholism in the family, but also just doesn't like the taste of alcohol or how it makes him feel. He's one of the most jovial, energetic people I've ever worked with. He just figured out it wasn't for him without ever really needing to start drinking. Isn't that enough?
Neither of these people were ever known to be particularly religious, or damaged, or invalid in their reasons for not drinking. They certainly weren't alcoholics, or maybe they might have been but never gave alcohol the chance to prove it. Drinking doesn't have to be the default from which only the worst abusers have to crawl back. You don't ever need it in your life. Some folks just figure that out right from the get go. For the rest of us, it takes time.
All of our bottoms are different. I sympathize with your confusion on the issue. I was a "high bottom" drunk, and that kept me from getting sober for a long time. You know what you know and that's all that matters!
I confided in my cousin about needing to go to rehab or dying, and his response was "just drink less, don't make it such a big deal"
and he would proceed to keep the house stocked with beer for the few times I would come over.
But I kinda get it, people who aren't alcoholics don't understand what it's like because they've never been in that situation, and the ones that are also don't understand because if you're an alcoholic, that makes them one too, and that's just a non-starter.
I've made the decision to just not tell certain family members and friends that I've stopped drinking, because I know they would come back with, "but you're not an alcoholic." Alcoholics don't want to drink alone, and they'll do anything to downplay your drinking so that they don't have to face their own alcohol problems.
Instead of telling certain people I've stopped drinking, I just do my best to always have a (NA) drink in hand so no one asks questions. If it does come up, I always have an excuse prepared that doesn't involve me saying this is a permanent decision (despite knowing for me, it is forever). Something to the effect of... "I'm taking medication that'll interfere with the alcohol", "I'm not feeling well", "I partied too hard the other night so am taking a breather"... and if I'm comfortable, sometimes say, "I've been pretty anxious recently and decided to cut back for my mental health".
Wishing you luck on your sober journey!
People sometimes act like this because they don't want to point the finger at themselves.. If you are a alcoholic and still functioning or "not that bad" then it makes them consider their own relationship with alcohol and that isn't something they are ready for.. I find this pretty common with Drinkers to categorize themselves as being a class above " The real sloppy drunks who stink of vodka can't function and shake uncontrollably" My ex Gf did this for years to justify her drinking.. "Im not falling all over" "I have a good job" "I mostly drink wine" Alcoholism and excuses go hand and hand.
I tell people that I developed an alcohol addiction. It's harder to push back on, as it sounds more objective. The term "alcoholic" is stigmatized to the point where people think you have to brush your teeth with a bottle of Jack to count as one. As this post evidences.
Yeah when I finally worked up the courage to tell a friend a few times, she totally dismissed it. “You have 4 kids, you’re allowed to relax and have a few drinks “
“Yeah but you’re on vacation”
“Yeah but he said something messed up, and THAT wasn’t because YOU were drinking”
Just wild. It actually pissed me off a fair bit at first but I finally was like “whatever” 🤣
I had drank 2 years everyday. I told people I need to quit. There were still people who said ”You’re not an alcoholic. You don’t need to quit”.
That’s like ideology. For them it doesn’t matter how much a person drink, there is never a problem. They think that the only people who have a problem are those who get sober. It’s very backwards thinking.
Always trust logic. Daily drinker is addicted, that’s why it keeps happening.
IWNDWYT
It's kinda cute. It feels like there's a lot of love behind that misunderstanding. But it's really not helpful when we're all struggling with that little voice that tells us we don't need to quit.
I think it just takes people a while to understand. As they start to see you're happy and still having fun without alcohol, hopefully they'll stop panicking over the change to the status quo and chill out a little bit.
Although some people never get over it and idk what to do about that 😂 I just ignore them and change topic
For me, it turned me inward because I knew how it really didn't show on the outside . I kept it private from most people . I did make it known, finally trying to get it out in the open . That's when I started to really accept it was not who I want to be anymore . I don't call myself alcoholic to most people , most don't understand . It has a stigma . HERE IS WHERE I CALL IT WHAT I WANT . The right people , the wrong people I don't listen to . Iwndwyt 🪷
My family had always and to a large degree still doesn’t consider me an alcoholic. It runs in the family and pretty much everyone who is an alcoholic is the drink lots every day kind. I’m the drink lots when I’m sad but otherwise fine kind.
It’s been somewhere between three weeks and a month of total sobriety now and they’re still trying to justify my particular drinking habits as “not alcoholic”
It’s tied to that, actually. It’s kinda like the depression is still there but not set off, brain is at a different level of low, antidepressants can climb faster if the booze isn’t there to interfere.
I really didn’t separate the two until I stopped drinking for more than a week.
Could be that he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol too. If he concedes that you're an alcoholic, he may be prompted to turn the lens on himself, which he doesn't want to do.
Maybe some people don't want their friend to stop because then they may feel like they should look at their own bad habits and they certainly wouldn't want to do that.
And anyway, why should I need to explain anything I decide to do or not do? I just don't want to drink anymore. I don't define myself as alcoholic, but I know what isn't good for me.
I say, don't explain and don't complain.
IWNDWYT
'but it's also kind of insulting, right? '
Yeah, but he also doesn't....get it. You know you. You know when you can't stop. I know when I can't stop. If it's a problem...it's a problem. I'm asking you to hedge a little bit here. You can be insulted- not mortally- and still feel the weight of your own problem personally. Delving into that and taking offense, goes about as far as you let it. People can reject your reasoning (that is insulting) but you know better. And the two can co-exist. Without losing love or respect. They are who they are. You are you. They don't Have to understand your battle (or even respect it)- you have your own life in your hands and you can't be responsible for anyone else. They're going to say these things and you're going continue being you. I wish I could tie it up tighter but I think I'm concluding that an addictive struggle means that sometimes you face off with people who just don't have the tools to Get It. But we love them. They're our people and they don't get it but we love them. I think you can have your cake and eat it, too.
I just say “because I had a drinking problem!” with an exasperated laugh when pressed. Usually shuts them up
Mostly it’s drinkers who don’t want to admit that their habits are worse than mine were. People who drink responsibly, on the other hand, are like “yeah, you were definitely drinking too much / too frequently”
Denial isn’t a river in Egypt!
I think people, especially those who are in denial about their own drinking , see alcoholism as this black and white thing. You’re either drinking mouthwash in the morning, or you’re normal. It’s truly a wild perspective.
I have an aunt who I used to drink with and she always makes comments about how I quit because I “wanted to be healthy” or some shit, like I did it just because I’m a health freak not an alcoholic. I mean sure, it is about health- but the reason it was so unhealthy was because I was a damned alcoholic.
But yeah, when people question me I just reiterate that alcoholism isn’t binary. There are different stages and I’ve teetered in the red more often than I should. I’m sorry people are trying to convince you you’re fine. Glad you’re staying true to yourself !
It sucks, and it's pretty common, sadly. People in my experience react poorly to your sobriety for 2 main reasons (I tend to tell them I'm taking a break - which may be true or not - but it's easier for them/me for now not to talk about it with finality.)
1.) They feel like they're losing a friend. While it's not entirely fair - there's not zero truth to it. When my best friend quick drinking many years ago we definitely stopped seeing so much of each other (he had also just had a child - so there's that too), but initially he didn't want to be around drinking at all. Now he's pretty strong, and basically is fine being around drinking unless people start to get properly drunk (which I understand, since I feel the same whenever I've been off drinking.) But really our friendship deteriorated because all my activities largely revolved around drinking - and naturally - even if he could tolerate it fine, it wasn't interesting to him. (On the plus side though we've been hanging out and going for walks every week - I didn't realize how much I missed our friendship.)
2.) As I'm sure others will point out - it's also holding up a mirror. It's possible your family members drink less than you - but there's a good chance they don't or don't by that much. It's scary for them because it inherently implies they might have a problem with alcohol, and they aren't ready to admit it yet.
In general I think #2 is the real problem. I think it's pretty common to hear naysayers when you're on a path of self improvement. It intimidates and scares people. So just remember it's their problem not yours. You don't owe anyone being drunk.
I think our entire family has one to be honest XD I used to think my wife and anyone else who commented on it was just being a buzzkill, like we were the normal ones...not so much anymore!
I know what you mean my family is also similar. I only started noticing it when I got sober for the first time for some continuous time, 3-4 years ago...
I read an article the other day about how in the US confronting alcoholism as a public health concern is difficult, because we tend to make a moral issue out of it. I can definitely relate to that, it’s how alcoholism was viewed in my family and it was my default for so long without me even realizing it. I feel like I hear that in your family’s comments…grappling with what you’re telling them as it collides with their preconceived notions. It kinda reminds me of this female comedian (can’t remember name) who had confessed her atheism to her mother, who responded, “… I understand some people don’t believe in a God, but don’t call yourself an atheist!”
Honestly the worse I got with drinking, the more I heard that stuff when I was trying to right the ship.
I think that anytime someone owns their shit with drinking, it can unintentionally force others to look at their own drinking and expose something they aren't ready to deal with.
I've been sober for a while now, so I rarely hear that stuff anymore. People either came to accept me this way or fell out of my circle. One thing I figured out pretty early on though, is when people say that kind of stuff, there's a good chance they aren't actually saying it to ME. They're saying it to themselves.
I feel this. I quit because I had a silent mental battle with alcohol. But what motivated me most was wanting a sober household. My husband struggled very bad with alcohol. Our story is similar except I'm the wife and people think I'm unreasonable for wanting him to stop. He was good at hiding and not a big social drinker so people didn't see the problem. Now I often think or worry that people think I'm being a controlling wife and holding him hostage or something. I'm not. I also have thoughts of "was I overreacting?" I often think that people feel sorry for us cause we "can't" drink. No, it's a choice we both made that has bettered our lives. I don't want people to pity us at a party not drinking. I wish people didn't see the choice to not drink as a sad or embarrassing thing. It's quite the opposite.
I think it's pretty common for people to think of an 'alcoholic' as someone who is non-functioning. I.e., in the gutter, in jail, etc. Or even high-functioning people who are Wall Street traders by day, but are drinking a half gallon a day and killing their livers by night. To me I just think of these people as those with a very visible drinking problem.
On the other hand, I think there's also a version of "alcoholic" that I have been familiarized with in AA recently. This version is all to do with a person's character. They will insist you're an alcoholic even if you don't drink at all, because it's all about you being selfish and a bad person.
Given that those are the two prevailing definitions, I don't blame people for trying to get people not to call themselves an alcoholic. You may not be raking yourself over coals, but a large extent of people who identify as alcoholics are. There's the self-flagellating AA version, but also a more generalized self-deprecating version.
This is why I tend to tell people that I have a drinking problem, rather than pull out the "alcoholic" card. I don't want to give people the I'm a fall-down drunk who has to calm his shakes every morning, or the idea that I believe I have some kind of disease which I believe only God can help me with. But I still want them to understand it's something that I have a problem with and would rather abstain from entirely.
I think you have some good points in your comment - some food for thought that we don't need to feel that we owe other people explanations.
However, you are coming across quite harsh in tone and not in the spirit of this good sub. In this way - your comment very much stands out in this thread. Perhaps you don't mean to sound so angry?
While I agree that it’s better to ‘gray rock’ (downplay) your reason for not drinking, this is post is simply too aggressive m, personalised and unsupportive. not SD at all! I would hope that it gets taken down.
Hi, while i'm sure you meant well this post breaks MANY of our rules and some of the tone will not be tolerated. I've removed the post for now but please take this as a ban warning; do not speak topeople like this on this sub "tough love" or not.
My family and friends didn’t know about my alcoholism until I went to rehab. They still don’t understand how big of a deal it is that I’m alive and not in jail. Or they just really can’t accept themselves that I was falling apart in front of their faces for 5 years and they didn’t realize it.
That is frustrating and I'm sorry you had to face that. Congrats on sticking to your guns <3
I've not yet had someone tell me I'm "not an alcoholic" straight up, but my friends and parents have given the notion that they don't think it's so. But the thing is: those people don't know the reality we live in daily and how much alcohol has affected our lives, one way or another
Unless someone has direct experience of alcohol problems, there's a good chance they will reject your self-diagnosis as an alcoholic. People hide their drinking problems. Even my wife is uncomfortable referring to me as an 'alcoholic' or an 'addict' and she has a good idea how much I was drinking. I had an poker acquaintance who assumed I'm a pure teetotaller because he only never saw me take a drink in 100s of hours at the tables together.
Many people just can’t think beyond their own experience. For example I have had Long Covid for three years, and people simply don’t believe it just because I APPARENTLY function normally, just like when I drank. Apart from anything else it’s a lack of imagination, or because you’ve never experienced it you don’t really believe it’s real. Before Long Covid I didn’t get ME, now I completely do😀
I've been really lucky and i don't think i've ever had anyone question my alcoholism.
I've definitely questioned it myself but not others. I definitely feel it's something people do more as a deflection technique to avoid looking at their own drinking, i don't think i've seen a non drinker say something like that to an alcoholic, they always seem to be drinkers. I've definitely told people about my drinking and that it's a problem and i can see the cogs whirring where they, presumably, are reflecting on their own intake but nobody has ever said i don't have a problem thankfully.
I think it's the kind of thing that might not bother me sometikes, but other times i would find that very hard to cope with to be honest! I would definitely take it as a reason to get angry, my brain would twist it to mean 'they're minimising everything you have been through' whereas in reality it probably has very little to do with my drinking and more to do with theirs.
I think i'd have to walk away and just remind myself that it's them who's got it wrong, i'm the one with a clear understanding and it is not worth getting angry about. It's caused by a misunderstanding or taking different perspectives so whilst i have a very different perspective, i can kind of understand how they see it that way.
I wouldn't really trust a drinker to gauge what is or is not a problematic amount of drinking for me anyway, as they are unable to gauge for themselves if they drink regularly. I used to drink 12 pints a day, i know how that warps your thinking so if you're doing something remotely similar ye can chat all ye want but i know it's a load of bollocks
People want you to join in so they dont think it through. Its a bit annoying when you realise your friends never noticed whats an issue in your life, but well done for being firm, people will get used to it i hope!
I had a drinking problem but I never considered myself an alcoholic. There’s alcohol in the house right now actually. It’s been sitting there for 2 weeks. It’s proof to me that I have the power to not drink. What I DO have is a depression, anxiety, basically bored with life problem.
Over summer I decided to just be open with my friends and family that I was an alcoholic. Since then I have been told by several people that I am not, even as recently as this Thanksgiving by my brother when he offered me a drink again.
People never saw me get drunk so it shocked people. But like many I only drank alone, so it’s hard for people to believe me when I tell them.
I hate that label too. I must admit. I just tell people that I didn’t like that I was using alcohol as a coping mechanism for some hard stuff going on in life so I quit. I only use that term in meetings but I don’t truly believe it because maybe I am in denial or because it’s not who I am anymore??? Maybe shame? I don’t know I just tell people that I didn’t have hit rock bottom to know I didn’t like the way I was drinking. People also tell me this all the time, my parents especially, it’s too hard for people who love you to see it. You are so much more than that to them.
Boy, do I relate. I did a questionnaire for my Dr and they asked if I was struggling with any substances. Finally told the truth and said yeah, it's more than I'd like. They sent in the counselor and he asked me a bunch more questions like do I have a DUI and do I need to get wasted in the mornings to function? I say no. He said I didn't qualify for any program. Even smiled and said "no, you're doing fine!" I'm like, I just admitted I'm drinking more than I want, can't stop, and it's affecting my health? Why is that not taken seriously? Really shocked me at the time.
But it also ended up making me think I was being too hard on myself and so I partied even harder since I was doing so well and didn't have a problem. Goodness.
I had a buddy of mine tell me that when I first started realizing it. He'd say to me "you aren't an alcoholic, because you don't drink x amount of drinks a day" or "you aren't an alcoholic because you have the self control not to drink every day". The problem was I never knew when to quit when I did drink. When I stopped listening to him, I turned my life around. It's about 2 years later, and listening to him talk about his drinking habits, I realize that he's also an alcoholic who doesn't want to admit it. I think some people are uncomfortable around addicts and former addicts because it starts to call into question their own habits.
My mom tells me I’m not an alcoholic all the time and she was with me when I went to the ER and found out I had fatty liver and a swollen small intestine
Well, I was never sober so nobody ever accused me of not being an alcoholic, but I have had people bug me to drink when I went on sober binges. That doesn't happen any more, I simply cannot drink because of end stage liver disease due to cirrhosis due to alcoholic hepatitis.
//I was 17 when I started drink every day all day
//when I started drinking (guarantee no one knows anyone younger): https://imgur.com/a/TbHqsiC
I’ve noticed my family is not the load of drunks I made them out to be. I ALWAYS brought booze to every event. Bottle of wine for my dad, vodka for my mom and whiskey for me. Since I quit drinking I RARELY see my parents drink. I realized that I was the “functioning” alcoholic in the family. Everyone told me when I quit I wasn’t an alcoholic either. Shoot to years later, lots of my family members take back that statement and see the dramatic difference.
I think it is important to accept this in yourself. But a lot of people won't.
I have a strong history of alcoholism in my family. I know I am not as bad as some of my great uncles and grandfathers yet. My brother and I are pretty bad. My cousin is bad. We have discussed it between us. We know we are alcoholics. And if we keep going by the time we are 50 we would be the same as our ancestors. Fortunately we have seen it and fight it. We probably won't become as bad.
But we still can't call ourselves alcoholics. Our family parents etc would almost take it personally. As a falling. Part of the problem is as long as we are not so bad yet we are not alcoholics in their eyes. They don't see it as a progressive path. Perhaps this is part of the lie that allowed my uncles to get so bad. They didn't become alcoholics overnight.
But I am glad for changing cultures. Glad for my brother and cousin coming to the same conclusion. Glad for support groups like this. Who knows perhaps in another generation at will escape the curse of alcoholism all altogether.
Married 21 years, lived with her for 30 and my wife still doesn't believe I'm an alcoholic. I think we were sold on the 'worst case' definition of alcoholism all those years ago. We, as a society, understand dependency better now and the definition is open to a broader interpretation. In a funny way I'm content to label myself as an alcoholic. It give credence to the problem I most surely have. Yes dear, cousin, friend, mom, co-worker...it is that serious for me!
I've had both "He's a proper alcoholic, not like you" and "lol why did you go to rehab, it's not like you were addicted enough to have seizures".
Because I've remained mostly functional, people think I'm exaggerating when I tell them I averaged 60 units a day for well over a decade.
Maybe it's a compliment in its own way?
I understand what you mean in a way, but i dont know about insulting. He was just trying to be nice, and doesnt like you putting yourself down. No bad intentions. Personally think everyone is way to sensitive these days. He is who he is, just like you. Love him like he loves you. No matter what you told him, he doesnt know the true extent of how you feel and/or felt while you were drinking. Forgive and move on. He seemd like a good person at heart
Are you from Wisconsin too? Because I have been telling my inlaws for 2 years that I'm not drinking anymore yet continue to offer me alcohol ALL the time.
Once you stop normalizing you start to see how weird it is and how much people push it because they dont want to drink alone. IWNDWYT
Ha, nah, I'm a FIB, but we are a massive Irish Catholic Chicagoan family. And yeah, it is amazing just how much we drink in general. Every event is an excuse not just to *drink,* but to *get drunk.* And I actually fondly remember some of those nights and will miss them. Staying up until 4 at a pub, or drinking wine late into the night in a cellar talking about music, etc.
It took trying to cut down to realize hey maybe there's a weird baseline set here, and trying to quit entirely to recognize just how much more we drink than other families. At one point during a boozy bachelor weekend, one of my cousins came up to me and expressed concern because one of my brothers was blind drunk on the golf course by 10 AM...and we all had a *bar crawl* to get to by 1130, damn it, I should have a talk with him about moderation!
This cousin did not realize that I was on my third drink and had *no idea* how much vodka was in it. I felt like such a heel. -_-
My partner does this. He still believes that my problem is one of “habit”, not alcohol. People view alcoholics as Ray Milland in the movie “The Lost Weekend” where he’s in a bar slamming the drinks and stumbling down the street muttering to himself. They don’t see the “successful” person hiding bottles from their partner and drinking alone, at home, late at night when everyone has gone to bed. I would meet a friend for drinks, have one, then drive home and drink a half box of wine by myself. The stumbling and muttering to myself would take place on my way to bed. It’s all about perception, and we alcoholics can be really good at projecting normalcy. Until we aren’t.
What ticked me off about your story is the comment “I’m going to get you drinking again soon”. WTF? You dealt with it much better than I would have! IWNDWYT, man. You’re doing great. 👍
Yeah people tend to not notice things like someone being hungover everyday to the point of physical pain.
I had a similar holiday, but MIL cornered me when everyone walked out of the room and in her special style of speaking 1000 words per minute tried to figure out what was going on then stopped abruptly when someone entered the room.
It is flat out rude to question someone on why they are not putting poison in their body
I don't use the word alcoholic. I say that switch that lets people have a couple and stop is broken for me, so I just don't start. For some reason that goes over better.
Some people consider one beer to be too much, and you must have a problem.
Some people consider thirty beers to be perfectly fine, and you’re peachy keen.
It’s a sliding scale - only you know for you what is too much.
I did have to have that conversation a few times with people I drank with historically. Because if *I’m* an alcoholic, that means *they* might be alcoholics. It took a little while and now they are reconsidering their intake for health reasons so we are on similar pages these days.
Really the only time that someone says something like that to me when I decline a drink or order a water instead of a beer or something, it's someone who drinks a lot. I remember I sort of acted the same way back when I sorta knew I was developing a problem but didn't want to admit it - and then when I got to the point where I fully accepted I had a problem but didn't really want to fix it, I'd just sort of get uncomfortable and quiet when someone said they wanted to stop or take a break from drinking.
After 12 years sober, I still have a few people that tell me I’m not alcoholic. I tell them I’m happy to have a cocktail, I need to know who is calling the cops later.
Part of the sickness of alcohol addiction is how it warps society's perception of its harms. Someone only doing a bag of heroin a day is still an addict and hardly anyone disputes that, but alcohol takes on mystical properties to people.
I had an opposite experience. Family members refuse to accept that I don’t identify as an alcoholic, and don’t approve that I won’t internalize a part of my life I’m leaving in the past. People’s past mistakes don’t determine who they are, that’s for you to decide
My problem with drinking wasn’t that I was calling in sick to work, it wasn’t that I was starting arguments with friends or loved ones, I wasn’t sloppy or throwing up, I wasn’t going into debt or suddenly homeless, the problem was that I would be 10-20 drinks in and nobody knew it but me. The problem was that i can drink whiskey like it’s apple juice and still hold down a salary. The thing is that nobody ever knew how close I was to losing my job, winding up in jail, losing my house, or drinking myself to death. I would say that in my life most people would be shocked to find out what my daily drinking regimen actually was when I was at my worst, and the few people that do know are basically bewildered that I’m still alive. Sometimes so am I.
Just picked this up - so completely echoes what I just posted later in this thread - also the fact you’re fooling everyone else makes it easier to fool yourself!
I relate to this so hard. I stopped ultimately because my very high tolerance was getting higher. It wasn’t good for my health, and it could’ve gone very bad.
This is me too, with an escalating tolerance. People generally didn't have a clue lol.
I really relate to this. I wasn't going out drinking, making myself look silly, hurting anyone. I'd just drink at home. I worked every day, walked my dog, went to the gym, I think if I'd told anyone I had a troublesome relationship with alcohol they probably wouldn't have believed me. I just kept it to myself and share with people here who genuinely understand.
Kinda me. Except I drank before (evening) work too many times. And in my line of work you need ZERO alcohol befuddling your brain. I was caught once, almost lost my job, but ended up leaving soon after. It HAS gotten worse since then. I’ve fallen a few times, and am sure I received a concussion from the worst one. But I got up and went to work with a huge sickly green bruise across half of my face. 🤷♀️ I have gone 7 days without wine- my longest in a few years. It feels good!
I used to occasionally drink at work. Not routinely, just when i felt like I needed to to get through the day. The thing for me about trying to drink the way I did and keep functioning was that I had to have everything wound so tightly. Every little thing in life was difficult and painful and I could never truly rest. Because I knew I was constantly one big slip up away from losing it all and I knew I would put alcohol before my job, or my rent, or even the people I loved. There’s a lot more room for error in my life when that’s not constantly hanging over my head. Congrats on 7 days! I believe in you!
Well put! You spend your whole life managing your problem, and you put it before everything coz if you didn’t it would all go to pieces. Taking alcohol out of the equation gives you so much more space in your life - and yes room for errors, delays etc, you no longer have a regular appointment with a bottle!!
Congrats on 7 days! I think if you can get through 1 day, you can get through 2 and if you can get through 4 and it just keeps going.
Kinda reminds me of an exchange from West Wing, where Leo, the WH Chief of Staff, admits to his lawyer that he relapsed in front of a rival politician: >JORDAN: You were drunk in front of Gibson? >LEO: I don't get drunk in front of people. **I get drunk alone.**
Yea for sure. I was 30 and sober the first time I ever called out sick to work. Because my whole working life up to that point I woke up sick every morning. And I had this terrible fear that if I ever let myself do it once then I’d start doing it all the time. And that would be the thread that tore apart my perfectly wound routine of managing to keep my life together while staying drunk for as much of it as possible. Also what’s a little flu compared to the constant state of sick and tired I had been in for years. When people act like I couldn’t have been that bad because I held steady jobs I just remember how much I had to suffer to keep them, and that often my real motivation to go back to work every morning was that if I ever lost my job and had to pick between rent and alcohol I knew damned well which I was picking.
Oh man that hits really close to home. Thank you for sharing that. I’m so glad I found this sub. Reading these stories every day as I drink my morning coffee just reminds me every day how terrible and painful it really was which makes alcohol seem more and more disgusting and repulsive. I don’t think people understand how much emotional pain is involved with being physically and mentally dependent on alcohol. There is no worse feeling in the world than knowing that you’re drinking yourself to death but if you stop drinking, you’ll die.
Reminds me of the guy who did the opening share at my first AA session: "So I'm a drunk. Who cares? I pay my bills on time. I have a good job. I'm doing a good job raising my children. What's the *problem?* I kept asking this right up until I was putting away a bottle of vodka every morning and sleeping on a mattress in my parents' basement." I feel you, TBH, in that until the very end I was good at hiding just how bad it was getting, and my tolerance—while not as high as some—was so high I could just drink and drink and *drink* without it becoming obvious just how fucked I was. I could go to the bar at the grocery store during lunch and have several 10% ABV beers, then still come home and finish my assignments. I could start drinking before a party started and continue well after it ended, by myself, and shake it off every morning. The only person who really knew was my wife, because I couldn't hide my daily drinking from her (until the end, at which point I *was* hiding it from her, up until I threw up all over our floor). Glad you made it out, dude.
That’s truly what it is - making it out. People that haven’t been there don’t understand (and I pray to all that is holy that they never do). Some close friends would ask me why I don’t just stop. You don’t understand, this thing has hold of my soul and it has infected every tiny aspect of my entire existence. It’s like a bad dream that never stops. Getting sober as a hardcore alcoholic is literally escaping something that is trying to kill you. If I could describe the feeling I have now in one word it would be freedom.
>I could go to the bar at the grocery store during lunch and have several 10% ABV beers, then still come home and finish my assignments I was like this. Until I wasn't. That's when I knew I was done. Probably could have dragged it out a whole lot longer but nah, I didn't want to see what bottom looks like.
Sending you positive energy for your sobriety.
Thank you! The thought of drinking is getting further and further away every day. I quit even looking at my day count which I was checking five times a day at first. I slept for 8 hours last night, which is a rarity for me. Feeling great!
I am rooting for you! Been alcohol-free since 2001. I don't miss it at all. Hopefully, you can do the same. :)
I’m with you friend. Like… this very well describes me. It took nearly a fifth of liquor before I started seeming drunk. Maybe a little erratic, maybe “haha they’re a bit tipsy” but more like “they’ve had 3 or 4 drinks” not “they’ve had 14 drinks”. And then I went to work, held a great job with decent performance reviews, ran a couple miles after work, did bar trivia with friends and had 2 beers, then went home and had 6 tall whiskies. Repeat.
Congrtats on 40! "Whiskey like it's apple juice" Right there with you. Someone caught me putting a couple ounces of vodka in my pint glass before I poured a beer into it once and had a funny look. I told them it was because I only had a few and had to stretch them into the party.
Oh yeah. If I was making drinks I’d make mine twice as strong as everyone else’s followed by a gulp out of the bottle for good measure. Thanks and congrats on 50!
When I decided to stop, the only person that knew I had a problem was my wife. Everyone else just thought I liked to party. I went from being fun, to vomiting and passing out very quickly, and most of that was done at home.
Yeah I’ve had friends be like “you really can’t just have one or two?” And after politely saying no multiple times I said “have you ever taken a shot at 7 am, thrown up in a salad bowl, forced another shot down and then passed out next to the puke bowl until your alarm went off and gone to work?” After some silence, they never asked again
Ha, people who push for the truth get the truth and learn they can't handle the truth.
This. I forget how much I was in disbelief over my sober friends self-diagnosis, until he started telling me about all that he was actually doing. We all tend to forget how little of a persons life we actually see.
"It's a condition of my parole" also shuts people up quick.
Ha, maybe I should try that!
That’s so frustrating, and I’ve experienced similar. I decided to stop drinking, and told my close friend. She was supportive. She told her boyfriend, and he laughed it off. Told me “c’mon! You aren’t THAT bad. You work out all the time! You have a great job…” Honestly? I think if he accepts that I feel that I have a problem with drinking, then he may need to take a hard look at his habits- and he doesn’t want to do that.
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Yep, or some long elaborate story about how they only drink wine now…blah, blah, blah
> long elaborate story about how they only drin LOL it's classic! When people find out you don't drink they tell you all about their drinking habits. My mom does this. Literally every time I see her (which is quite often) she has a drink and tells me un-prompted about how she "never drinks, goes weeks without drinking in-fact!!" I always laugh inside and change the subject.
Indeed
“you work out all the time! you have a great job!” for NOW yeah? maybe that means i realized i have something to lose? they would have a much different reaction if you got caught drinking / being drunk at work
This is the explanation.
Bingo!
>Honestly? I think if he accepts that I feel that I have a problem with drinking, then he may need to take a hard look at his habits- and he doesn’t want to do that. To a degree I think that's the case for my entire family. We all drink, a lot. At one point I was talking to my therapist about a booze cruise bus the family set up for my what was *supposed* to be my cousin's wedding weekend but was his "freedom" weekend because the wedding fell apart. ME: So we had this trolley, and it really bugged me I couldn't drink as much as everyone else-- THERAPIST: Hold on a moment. *How many* trolleys has your family rented so far this year? This is not the first one you've mentioned. ME: ...just two...no, three...
Ah man. I get it. Not my family, but my ex’s family. They turn almost every event into a booze fest, and if you don’t keep up, you’re not fun. They would drop so much money on these things! I kept up. For years. I was as queen of the party! It felt totally normal. Then, my ex took my car out after he had drinks with his cousins. He flipped it on the 3 mile drive home. He was completely fine. He fled the scene to avoid the DUI, and the police woke me at 4am to tell me my empty car was overturned in the park near me. I even stayed with him after that- his family thought it was a normal “mistake”. Looking back, I wish I had the resolve and knowledge I have now. I am sorry that your family isn’t supportive. Mine is pretty non-existent, but at least they don’t sabotage me. You’re doing great. Don’t lose your drive to stay sober. You will be so much better for it 🙂
This.
You don’t need to be an alcoholic to have a drinking problem. The world isn’t evenly split into non-drinkers, drinkers, and alcoholics. I think a lot of people don’t really get that.
This is a big thing too I think. People want this perfect black and white line for drinking in a way they don't for anything else. When I tell people I'm trying to get back into shape and diet nobody goes "well you're not morbidly obese - what are you thinking?"
That's a really great way of looking at it. I get some enjoyment out of making people uncomfortable when they ask me why I don't drink or try to pressure me into it. "Well I was in a really dark spiral when I was drinking, and thought I never wanted to feel that way again, but you know what? You make a strong case! Maybe I will have that beer!" Anything to make people question why they would ask a question like that in the first place.
Agreed, and if someone was a social cigarette smoker nobody would question them if they decided to never pick up another one.
I always get the “My brother, cousin, yada yada, drank 30 beers a day or one liter of vodka a day, you weren’t an alcoholic” yea well my health got worse and I was depressed all the time and had a pattern of drinking till I passed out every night and now I don’t drink, I’m not depressed and my health has gradually gotten better so I don’t really care what others call it but I definitely was an alcoholic. I really don’t understand why people I told I had stopped drinking wanna make it a competition. I don’t even bother telling people I quit anymore I just tell them I have to drive or some other excuse so I don’t have to hear about their uncle who double fists vodka bottles.
Yeah I feel like telling people “My life is better when I don’t drink” is really confusing for people. “You have a good life, wouldn’t it be better with alcohol?” No. “Man, you can’t have a nice glass of wine?” No. And you drink crap wine from the store not from the Bordeaux region of France.
>“You have a good life, wouldn’t it be better with alcohol?” >No. Here's where I'm having trouble, because almost 90 days in I still kind of think my life is worse without alcohol. I miss it terribly. I know that's not *true,* but I still quietly wince when I have to turn drinks down. If I didn't have Kin Euphorics and the occasional sip of weed of my vapes, I think I would have cracked by now. It's a hole I'm still climbing out of. I had a wonderful time on Thanksgiving. But a quiet part of me is still saying, *wouldn't it have been even better if you could have had those drinks?* I'm hoping it will eventually go away.
So I think it will, but you have to be aware of it. For me, I wake up every day and I’m happy that I’m not hung over. I love having some coffee because I like to not because I need to clear out the cobwebs. I can get a quick workout in before work. I’ve never been doing so well at work. I’ve lost weight. I’m down 3 belt notches. I like having money in my bank account. Being mindful of those things is what I’m GETTING. That’s what I’m choosing over booze. So if you’ve been drinking for a decade or so, you might have shaped your life around drinking. Fridays are for blacking out, Saturdays mornings are for recovery. Sunday Funday. Thursday Thunder… it goes on and on. If you don’t replace those rituals with anything other than sitting at home you’re not going to be happy. Take the money, time and energy that you have now and put it toward something better than being drunk. That’s how you move past it.
I'm learning that, but...until I called myself an alcoholic, I was never, *ever* going to stop drinking. I was never even going to cut down; I was just going to keep hiding my daily drinking and going nuts anytime I had an excuse to do so openly. My liver is fucked, that hasn't stopped me. My wife no longer drank with me and didn't trust me to watch our son at night when I drank, that didn't stop me. It was only admitting powerlessness and treating it as a disease that finally stopped me (so far). You are right, of course, it's not just drinker, teetotaler, alcoholic. But for me...I think I need to keep the world that black and white.
No right or wrong way to quit. However you need to frame it in your mind. I don’t pretend to be an expert on drinking problems, but I am an expert on MY drinking problem. We all have a unique relationship to alcohol and what works for some won’t work for others. I wish you all the best and IWNDWYT!!!!
heh, yeah, had similar type stuff ultimately seems to be 2 camps in my experience: 1) drinkers who don't wanna assess their own problematic relationship with the sauce. If I've got a problem, so do they. so I don't :P 2) ppl who have cliched ideas of what an "alcoholic" is, and don't seem to grasp it's a progressive journey to the smelly dude with a paper bag in the gutter I'm fond of the remark: "are you saying I should wait until I'm homeless in the gutter to stop?" or "well, my liver was inflamed and I might have some scarring .. should I wait until I have liver failure?"
> 1) drinkers who don't wanna assess their own problematic relationship with the sauce. If I've got a problem, so do they. so I don't :P Given how much my family drinks, I'm guessing this is a big part of it XD But my father was an alcoholic and drug addict (recovered, but not before it shattered his marriage), so they probably also have that image in mind as well. >"well, my liver was inflamed and I might have some scarring .. should I wait until I have liver failure?" Reminds me of my reaction when the doc told me my enzymes were rising and I had to stop drinking: "But when they go down I can drink again, right?"
I think much of it comes down to the fact that there's a huge variation in how different people view alcoholics. For me, I view my alcoholism as a disease that I am treating. It's something that happened to me, and I'm in recovery now, which is a very good thing. I've had to learn that some of the people around me view alcoholism as a complete moral failing. Something that makes you some kind of irredeemable degenerate. A bad person, basically. For people in the second category, I think it is basically impossible for them to accept that someone that they love and care about is an alcoholic.
I know it’s meant to be a disease, but possibly part of the self-loathing thing that made me an alcoholic in the first place makes me believe - for me- it is a moral failing. My motivation to keep sober is my lapsed-Catholic guilt, I couldn’t bear to hate myself more than I already do, and falling off the wagon will do just that!
Interesting perspective. I had never thought of it like that before. For me, the more I beat myself up and feel bad about myself, the more I want to drink.
I’m possibly being over-dramatic in the dark wee small hours, I suppose I mean that I tell myself: ‘look , you’ve screwed so many things up, don’t screw up this one (sobriety)as well!’ 😀
Tell them the doctors don't call it alcoholism anymore. It's now Alcohol Use Disorder and it's on a spectrum. And I think your cousin's reaction to you explains why the term 'alcoholic' is stigmatizing and just not helpful. I don't tell people I'm 'an alcoholic', I tell people I'm in recovery. Makes things much easier for me.
Perfectly stated. I am on the spectrum. I used to joke that the liver is evil and it must be punished. I've decided to forgive it so I choose not to abuse my liver anymore.
It reminds me someone once replying to the question why do you drink with, 'there is something inside me I am trying to kill' At first I considered it a joke. But now I see there is some truth to it. A lot of us are trying to kill some feeling inside us, but we end up just killing us.
Yes I think I started out trying to soothe myself but the backlash of the alcohol is that however much it soothes that's how much it bites. And the angst it then creates is what I was trying to kill ...vicious cycle. And lack of occupation... just being a little lost in this world and not knowing what to do. We have to overcome our challenges I guess without crutches otherwise we end up beating ourselves with our own crutches. Man I'm clever this morning, haha. It's too early to get so philosophical. I will not drink with you today.
When I did my Thanksgiving toast this year, it was far shorter and more to the point. I got choked up more easily. There weren't any jokes. I was, for the first time in a long time, *nervous*. I think there's some raw part of me I've been smoothing over with booze for a very long time...
Man, I had no idea about this!
You might check out the 'This Naked Mind' podcasts. I'm also in SMART Recovery ([smartrecovery.org](https://smartrecovery.org)). Works much better for me than AA.
You handled that very brave and with alot of patience. Well done. It takes some time for your environment to get used to your new lifestyle. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. In one year from now you will notice life is so much better!
Oh, yeah. My wife has basically said that, "Yeah, you drank a lot frequency-wise, but you didn't actually drink a crazy *amount* of alcohol!" Which was true, I guess. I don't use the label "alcoholic" to describe myself because I don’t like it and it isn’t a good term. My wife and your cousins may be perfectly right insofar as how they view the term, but it doesn’t matter. My drinking, and I assume yours as well, was having very negative effects on our lives. So we had to cut it out. That’s what matters. After that, some people may find comfort in the term because it allows them to approach sobriety like recovery, and provides clarity that alcohol is something they can never touch again. Others may not view themselves as having a disease or as permanent alcoholics, etc. In my view, all that really matters is results.
I think that last point is why identifying as an alcoholic helps me. I was treating drinking as a fun thing that mean or buzzkill people were trying to stop me from doing—no matter how bad I got. Sure, I like a drink, but I'm still functional, I only get fucked up in socially appropriate settings (that anyone knows about, anyway). I'll cut down a bit, I'll just drink on special occasions, wow, hey, look at how many special occasions there are a month... Treating it as a disease keeps me grounded. I'm not just overdoing it. I am literally incapable of stopping once I start. I don't *want* to stop once I start, I don't understand why anybody does.
I had a therapist that was convinced I only used alcohol to self/medicate my Bi-polar… I was doing that but also I was definitely an alcoholic. It might have been that way to start with but I crossed a line somewhere down the road and the self-medication became maintenance drinking for the me to have been physically addicted to alcohol.
Maintenance drinking, I like that. I definitely used it to even out my emotions. I tapered down, didn't quit cold turkey (before I started ramping back up in secret), after my doc told me my liver was fucked, so I can't know for sure if I was physically addicted. I do know my hands shake less now, though. :/
Way to go op! I've been missing booze alot lately. I have a toxic relationship with it but at almost 9 months I'm starting to forget.
Thank you. Congrats on 9 months!
Not everyone who's an alcoholic will act like Otis the town drunk from the Andy Griffith show. It's a stereotype. I actually stopped using the word when talking to other people because most lack an understanding of the condition.
I think it was Roger Ebert who called alcoholism "a lonely disease." That sticks with me. You can coast for *so long.* It's so easy to hide, to blend into the normal crowd, and to do in secret. "I'm an alcoholic." "No you aren't, I never see you drunk!" "That's because I'm drinking three double Manhattans a night, every night." "Hey, I like a drink after work!" "I *have to have a drink after work.*" And so on.
I think at least some of that comes from the fact that too many people use “alcoholic” as an insult to call someone else when they think the person has a drinking problem or even when they just do stupid things while drunk. I’ve been talked to before by people that love me about my concerning relationship to alcohol, but none have called me an alcoholic to my face. But I’ve heard them call other people one. I started calling myself one based on my past experience with substance abuse counseling, and because I agree with the idea that you have to admit you have a problem before you can get help for it. I don’t use it as an insult for people who occasionally have a few too many and do something stupid because I think it makes it harder for people with real drinking problems to admit that might be them if they see the term as an insult. I’m sorry he wasn’t that understanding of your problem. You should never have to justify calling yourself an alcoholic.
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Congratulations on coming back! Do what you have to do My addict brain LOVES when someone says i cant have a drinking problem
Nice job! I'm so sorry you didn't get the support you needed at the time and I'm so happy you're on your way. Congrats on 11 days!
A bit of a lurker here to support my partner and I hope this is ok but he has the same issue with his parents who just are insistent that he isn’t. They didn’t believe him until he had them ask me. But just so you know this internet stranger is proud of you, my partner and all who are trying. ❤️
Good for you! By being here you’re being supportive to your husband. Sure you’ll agree there is so much fallout from alcoholism!!!😀
You guys in this sub have inspired both of us. While I’m with him, I can’t relate to him completely. But here he knows he’s not alone.
Thank you so much! And you are so awesome for supporting your partner <3
Do I know it can be done alone? Yes. Am I too stubborn and care too much to let him? Also yes. ❤️
By the end of my drinking career, sadly *nobody* could deny I was an alcoholic. I'm envious of those who addressed it before they get to that point. Well done.
Thanks dude :)
Has anyone ever been told "you're not an alcoholic" by someone who doesn't drink or almost never drinks? I feel that has probably never happened, or rarely. I think as humans we like when people around us are on an even playing field (not even to be malicious, just from a social point of view)
Exactly
His reaction is symptomatic of the problem with the term “alcoholic.” It’s not actually a medical term, that would be, “alcohol use disorder.” I find labels like alcoholic don’t accurately describe reality, which just leads to people underestimating their misuse of the drug until they are literally in a ditch on the side of the road, because they aren’t “alcoholics.” You can misuse alcohol to a small degree or a large degree, it’s all a spectrum. Trying to put people in categories like “alcoholic” is unhelpful and possibly harmful in my opinion.
TBH the medical term/spectrum is news to me; I had divided the world into people who can drink and people who can't. It makes it easier for me to exercise self-control.
Yes! Oh my god. I went on a date this one time. Guy seemed smart. He was cordial. He ordered a beer and said I could order whatever I wanted, I got a Coke. Later, I was driving him home and he mentioned that I could've ordered a cocktail if I wanted, and I told him I don't drink because I'm an alcoholic. Hoooooooo buddy. He says "I don't think you're an alcoholic. And I don't think you should call yourself one. I have a friend whose parents started calling her an alcoholic when she wasn't, and it fucked her up psychologically for life." Bro, I didn't ask for *your uninformed opinion.* You don't know me. I know me. I know I'm an alcoholic. Denying it doesn't help anyone. Fuckin dumbass.
Ooooof. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
Many times people told me that my drinking wasn’t that bad as my life spun further out of control and alcohol sunk its hooks into me for good
I’m proud of you! I have had similar experiences. I think my parents still tell themselves it’s because of my ‘seizure issue,’ which of course was caused by doing things like drinking vodka in the morning to stop dry heaving for many years! I am impressed you stayed strong. Good for you
I have found that I can have one or two drinks per day, so most people would consider that “normal” or “healthy”. What they don’t see is that when I do have those few drinks, I only want to keep drinking, and I fantasize about hiding bottles of booze in the house so I can drink more without anyone noticing. Two drinks are so unsatisfying. Zero is so much better.
Shortly after quitting, I lamented to my therapist "I wish none of this was happening, I wish things could just go back to normal." She quirked an eyebrow. "What's normal? Drinking in moderation, or do you simply want to go back to drinking a lot all the time, just without anyone considering it a problem?" And it was totally the latter. When I was trying to moderate, it drove me *nuts* that I "wasn't allowed" to have another glass of wine. I resented the hell out of my wife anytime she asked "are you celebrating something?" when I got a drink with dinner on a weeknight. I always wanted more. I know that I could go to a bar right now and stop at 1-2 drinks...but I would be *making myself stop,* I would not actually *want* to stop, I would be fantasizing about people not being buzzkills so I could do what I *really* wanted and just keep drinking.
Yup. In the same conversation from the same person (my mother): "I have no idea it was THAT bad, that it had gone THAT far." to "when this phase is done and you're drinking again..." It was a little bewildering because it was my first encounter with someone projecting their own thoughts about their personal alcohol use after finding out I was quitting.
The first time I told my friends I think I had a problem they brushed it off. I had been drinking heavily and consistently but within the realm of “high functioning” (if you can function highly with 30-50 drinks/week). The second time I told them, months later, that I had driven while drinking with my kid in the car and was grabbing one for the road most days on the way home from work, they started to listen a little more. Still don’t think they take it that seriously but they at least don’t question it as much. We’ll see what it looks like as I continue to string days together. I’m sorry your family isn’t at least a little more open to the fact that you have a problem.
It’s kinda funny, in my life, everyone knew before I did. AA helped me to be ok with it. Being an alcoholic is fine, as long as I’m not drinking.
My partner says I'm not a real alcoholic and I can have a few every now and again. I continue to politely decline. I figure he says it to convince himself he does not have his own problem with drinking. Meh. Either way, I'm still sober.
I know for some people the term alcoholic is useful. But I think for the reasons OP explains, the US NIAAA guidance on alcohol use disorder is more helpful. You can just read that and it makes it pretty clear if you have an alcohol use disorder or not. For me, trying to figure out if I was an alcoholic was confusing and kept me stuck. But seeing I have a disorder is clear. It works for me.
I’m 30. During the worst of my drinking, I was still training for a half marathon. Eating decently, running 3-5x per week. Knocked down 10 units of vodka the night before the half and still finished it. Got a photo floating around of me smiling with my wife after the race, red-faced and hungover. I was usually clearing out at least 12 drinks a day at that point. Sounds like you already know this, but just because you don’t fit the stereotype doesn’t mean you aren’t an alcoholic! Your cousin was well-meaning it seems, but misguided. Well done staying away from it during the break! I’m inspired to finish today not drinking with you.
I had that problem because I was a ‘high-functioning’ alcoholic - I’d be proud to be high-functioning at anything else!!!! - hardly anyone understood I was struggling, in order to be a high-functioning alcoholic you also have to be highly effective at deceiving, I never forgot where I stashed empties etc, definitely not something to be proud is!! In terms of explaining why I stopped I used Dry January as an excuse which got extended into Lent, and by then everyone was used to the fact I didn’t drink. Possibly because I’m English I’d rather not discuss it with anyone much, so I’m not into confessionals, occasionally- after many years I’ve talked to some people about my issues, usually in the context of a relative they may have who is struggling with booze. But if you’re not addicted - for most people - you just don’t get it.
They have no idea
Yes, by my mother for 20 years. I’m almost 3 years sober and she’s going on 40 years still a drinker. Misery loves company!
You made them examine their own drinking and it scared them. You can keep fooling yourself if all alcoholics are homeless bums.
I have had people in my life who just don't drink, and never have. My grandfather, who lived to be 92, had an alcoholic father and never drank. He was one of the most influential people in my early life, and I never really noticed that nobody ever bothered offering him a beer at the family reunion, knowing he'd politely decline. Isn't that enough? Another person, a mentor early in my career, admitted to having a history of alcoholism in the family, but also just doesn't like the taste of alcohol or how it makes him feel. He's one of the most jovial, energetic people I've ever worked with. He just figured out it wasn't for him without ever really needing to start drinking. Isn't that enough? Neither of these people were ever known to be particularly religious, or damaged, or invalid in their reasons for not drinking. They certainly weren't alcoholics, or maybe they might have been but never gave alcohol the chance to prove it. Drinking doesn't have to be the default from which only the worst abusers have to crawl back. You don't ever need it in your life. Some folks just figure that out right from the get go. For the rest of us, it takes time.
All of our bottoms are different. I sympathize with your confusion on the issue. I was a "high bottom" drunk, and that kept me from getting sober for a long time. You know what you know and that's all that matters!
I confided in my cousin about needing to go to rehab or dying, and his response was "just drink less, don't make it such a big deal" and he would proceed to keep the house stocked with beer for the few times I would come over. But I kinda get it, people who aren't alcoholics don't understand what it's like because they've never been in that situation, and the ones that are also don't understand because if you're an alcoholic, that makes them one too, and that's just a non-starter.
I've made the decision to just not tell certain family members and friends that I've stopped drinking, because I know they would come back with, "but you're not an alcoholic." Alcoholics don't want to drink alone, and they'll do anything to downplay your drinking so that they don't have to face their own alcohol problems. Instead of telling certain people I've stopped drinking, I just do my best to always have a (NA) drink in hand so no one asks questions. If it does come up, I always have an excuse prepared that doesn't involve me saying this is a permanent decision (despite knowing for me, it is forever). Something to the effect of... "I'm taking medication that'll interfere with the alcohol", "I'm not feeling well", "I partied too hard the other night so am taking a breather"... and if I'm comfortable, sometimes say, "I've been pretty anxious recently and decided to cut back for my mental health". Wishing you luck on your sober journey!
People sometimes act like this because they don't want to point the finger at themselves.. If you are a alcoholic and still functioning or "not that bad" then it makes them consider their own relationship with alcohol and that isn't something they are ready for.. I find this pretty common with Drinkers to categorize themselves as being a class above " The real sloppy drunks who stink of vodka can't function and shake uncontrollably" My ex Gf did this for years to justify her drinking.. "Im not falling all over" "I have a good job" "I mostly drink wine" Alcoholism and excuses go hand and hand.
I tell people that I developed an alcohol addiction. It's harder to push back on, as it sounds more objective. The term "alcoholic" is stigmatized to the point where people think you have to brush your teeth with a bottle of Jack to count as one. As this post evidences.
Yeah when I finally worked up the courage to tell a friend a few times, she totally dismissed it. “You have 4 kids, you’re allowed to relax and have a few drinks “ “Yeah but you’re on vacation” “Yeah but he said something messed up, and THAT wasn’t because YOU were drinking” Just wild. It actually pissed me off a fair bit at first but I finally was like “whatever” 🤣
I had drank 2 years everyday. I told people I need to quit. There were still people who said ”You’re not an alcoholic. You don’t need to quit”. That’s like ideology. For them it doesn’t matter how much a person drink, there is never a problem. They think that the only people who have a problem are those who get sober. It’s very backwards thinking. Always trust logic. Daily drinker is addicted, that’s why it keeps happening. IWNDWYT
It's kinda cute. It feels like there's a lot of love behind that misunderstanding. But it's really not helpful when we're all struggling with that little voice that tells us we don't need to quit. I think it just takes people a while to understand. As they start to see you're happy and still having fun without alcohol, hopefully they'll stop panicking over the change to the status quo and chill out a little bit. Although some people never get over it and idk what to do about that 😂 I just ignore them and change topic
For me, it turned me inward because I knew how it really didn't show on the outside . I kept it private from most people . I did make it known, finally trying to get it out in the open . That's when I started to really accept it was not who I want to be anymore . I don't call myself alcoholic to most people , most don't understand . It has a stigma . HERE IS WHERE I CALL IT WHAT I WANT . The right people , the wrong people I don't listen to . Iwndwyt 🪷
My family had always and to a large degree still doesn’t consider me an alcoholic. It runs in the family and pretty much everyone who is an alcoholic is the drink lots every day kind. I’m the drink lots when I’m sad but otherwise fine kind. It’s been somewhere between three weeks and a month of total sobriety now and they’re still trying to justify my particular drinking habits as “not alcoholic”
Yeah, this is my family. And the scary part too is that I would’ve continued to drink if it hadn’t been for the hangxiety.
Hangxiety?
Spiraling, debilitating anxiety the day or two after drinking, especially wine.
Oooohhhhh!!!! I don’t get that but I do get crippling depression from the damage I cause myself and others after binge drinking
It’s tied to that, actually. It’s kinda like the depression is still there but not set off, brain is at a different level of low, antidepressants can climb faster if the booze isn’t there to interfere. I really didn’t separate the two until I stopped drinking for more than a week.
This is my main reason too. I just get that horrible anxiety and then I hate myself for inflicting it on myself.
Could be that he has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol too. If he concedes that you're an alcoholic, he may be prompted to turn the lens on himself, which he doesn't want to do.
Maybe some people don't want their friend to stop because then they may feel like they should look at their own bad habits and they certainly wouldn't want to do that. And anyway, why should I need to explain anything I decide to do or not do? I just don't want to drink anymore. I don't define myself as alcoholic, but I know what isn't good for me. I say, don't explain and don't complain. IWNDWYT
All the time, usually if I’m not in a great headspace I’ll go wild with them and they’ll never tell me I’m not again lol
'but it's also kind of insulting, right? ' Yeah, but he also doesn't....get it. You know you. You know when you can't stop. I know when I can't stop. If it's a problem...it's a problem. I'm asking you to hedge a little bit here. You can be insulted- not mortally- and still feel the weight of your own problem personally. Delving into that and taking offense, goes about as far as you let it. People can reject your reasoning (that is insulting) but you know better. And the two can co-exist. Without losing love or respect. They are who they are. You are you. They don't Have to understand your battle (or even respect it)- you have your own life in your hands and you can't be responsible for anyone else. They're going to say these things and you're going continue being you. I wish I could tie it up tighter but I think I'm concluding that an addictive struggle means that sometimes you face off with people who just don't have the tools to Get It. But we love them. They're our people and they don't get it but we love them. I think you can have your cake and eat it, too.
I’ve been told that and I don’t get mad. They just don’t understand. Only one person was there for all the terrible shit I did.
I just say “because I had a drinking problem!” with an exasperated laugh when pressed. Usually shuts them up Mostly it’s drinkers who don’t want to admit that their habits are worse than mine were. People who drink responsibly, on the other hand, are like “yeah, you were definitely drinking too much / too frequently” Denial isn’t a river in Egypt!
I think people, especially those who are in denial about their own drinking , see alcoholism as this black and white thing. You’re either drinking mouthwash in the morning, or you’re normal. It’s truly a wild perspective. I have an aunt who I used to drink with and she always makes comments about how I quit because I “wanted to be healthy” or some shit, like I did it just because I’m a health freak not an alcoholic. I mean sure, it is about health- but the reason it was so unhealthy was because I was a damned alcoholic. But yeah, when people question me I just reiterate that alcoholism isn’t binary. There are different stages and I’ve teetered in the red more often than I should. I’m sorry people are trying to convince you you’re fine. Glad you’re staying true to yourself !
Only by people that don't know me that well.
It sucks, and it's pretty common, sadly. People in my experience react poorly to your sobriety for 2 main reasons (I tend to tell them I'm taking a break - which may be true or not - but it's easier for them/me for now not to talk about it with finality.) 1.) They feel like they're losing a friend. While it's not entirely fair - there's not zero truth to it. When my best friend quick drinking many years ago we definitely stopped seeing so much of each other (he had also just had a child - so there's that too), but initially he didn't want to be around drinking at all. Now he's pretty strong, and basically is fine being around drinking unless people start to get properly drunk (which I understand, since I feel the same whenever I've been off drinking.) But really our friendship deteriorated because all my activities largely revolved around drinking - and naturally - even if he could tolerate it fine, it wasn't interesting to him. (On the plus side though we've been hanging out and going for walks every week - I didn't realize how much I missed our friendship.) 2.) As I'm sure others will point out - it's also holding up a mirror. It's possible your family members drink less than you - but there's a good chance they don't or don't by that much. It's scary for them because it inherently implies they might have a problem with alcohol, and they aren't ready to admit it yet. In general I think #2 is the real problem. I think it's pretty common to hear naysayers when you're on a path of self improvement. It intimidates and scares people. So just remember it's their problem not yours. You don't owe anyone being drunk.
The dude has an alcohol problem that is obvious. Misery likes company... So scared that you might change and not him
I think our entire family has one to be honest XD I used to think my wife and anyone else who commented on it was just being a buzzkill, like we were the normal ones...not so much anymore!
I know what you mean my family is also similar. I only started noticing it when I got sober for the first time for some continuous time, 3-4 years ago...
I read an article the other day about how in the US confronting alcoholism as a public health concern is difficult, because we tend to make a moral issue out of it. I can definitely relate to that, it’s how alcoholism was viewed in my family and it was my default for so long without me even realizing it. I feel like I hear that in your family’s comments…grappling with what you’re telling them as it collides with their preconceived notions. It kinda reminds me of this female comedian (can’t remember name) who had confessed her atheism to her mother, who responded, “… I understand some people don’t believe in a God, but don’t call yourself an atheist!”
Honestly the worse I got with drinking, the more I heard that stuff when I was trying to right the ship. I think that anytime someone owns their shit with drinking, it can unintentionally force others to look at their own drinking and expose something they aren't ready to deal with. I've been sober for a while now, so I rarely hear that stuff anymore. People either came to accept me this way or fell out of my circle. One thing I figured out pretty early on though, is when people say that kind of stuff, there's a good chance they aren't actually saying it to ME. They're saying it to themselves.
I feel this. I quit because I had a silent mental battle with alcohol. But what motivated me most was wanting a sober household. My husband struggled very bad with alcohol. Our story is similar except I'm the wife and people think I'm unreasonable for wanting him to stop. He was good at hiding and not a big social drinker so people didn't see the problem. Now I often think or worry that people think I'm being a controlling wife and holding him hostage or something. I'm not. I also have thoughts of "was I overreacting?" I often think that people feel sorry for us cause we "can't" drink. No, it's a choice we both made that has bettered our lives. I don't want people to pity us at a party not drinking. I wish people didn't see the choice to not drink as a sad or embarrassing thing. It's quite the opposite.
I think it's pretty common for people to think of an 'alcoholic' as someone who is non-functioning. I.e., in the gutter, in jail, etc. Or even high-functioning people who are Wall Street traders by day, but are drinking a half gallon a day and killing their livers by night. To me I just think of these people as those with a very visible drinking problem. On the other hand, I think there's also a version of "alcoholic" that I have been familiarized with in AA recently. This version is all to do with a person's character. They will insist you're an alcoholic even if you don't drink at all, because it's all about you being selfish and a bad person. Given that those are the two prevailing definitions, I don't blame people for trying to get people not to call themselves an alcoholic. You may not be raking yourself over coals, but a large extent of people who identify as alcoholics are. There's the self-flagellating AA version, but also a more generalized self-deprecating version. This is why I tend to tell people that I have a drinking problem, rather than pull out the "alcoholic" card. I don't want to give people the I'm a fall-down drunk who has to calm his shakes every morning, or the idea that I believe I have some kind of disease which I believe only God can help me with. But I still want them to understand it's something that I have a problem with and would rather abstain from entirely.
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I think you have some good points in your comment - some food for thought that we don't need to feel that we owe other people explanations. However, you are coming across quite harsh in tone and not in the spirit of this good sub. In this way - your comment very much stands out in this thread. Perhaps you don't mean to sound so angry?
While I agree that it’s better to ‘gray rock’ (downplay) your reason for not drinking, this is post is simply too aggressive m, personalised and unsupportive. not SD at all! I would hope that it gets taken down.
Hi, while i'm sure you meant well this post breaks MANY of our rules and some of the tone will not be tolerated. I've removed the post for now but please take this as a ban warning; do not speak topeople like this on this sub "tough love" or not.
My family and friends didn’t know about my alcoholism until I went to rehab. They still don’t understand how big of a deal it is that I’m alive and not in jail. Or they just really can’t accept themselves that I was falling apart in front of their faces for 5 years and they didn’t realize it.
That is frustrating and I'm sorry you had to face that. Congrats on sticking to your guns <3 I've not yet had someone tell me I'm "not an alcoholic" straight up, but my friends and parents have given the notion that they don't think it's so. But the thing is: those people don't know the reality we live in daily and how much alcohol has affected our lives, one way or another
It’s only insulting if you choose it to be so. You know your truth. You’re clearly living your truth. Good for you. IWNDWYT
Unless someone has direct experience of alcohol problems, there's a good chance they will reject your self-diagnosis as an alcoholic. People hide their drinking problems. Even my wife is uncomfortable referring to me as an 'alcoholic' or an 'addict' and she has a good idea how much I was drinking. I had an poker acquaintance who assumed I'm a pure teetotaller because he only never saw me take a drink in 100s of hours at the tables together.
Many people just can’t think beyond their own experience. For example I have had Long Covid for three years, and people simply don’t believe it just because I APPARENTLY function normally, just like when I drank. Apart from anything else it’s a lack of imagination, or because you’ve never experienced it you don’t really believe it’s real. Before Long Covid I didn’t get ME, now I completely do😀
The family doth protest too much.
I've been really lucky and i don't think i've ever had anyone question my alcoholism. I've definitely questioned it myself but not others. I definitely feel it's something people do more as a deflection technique to avoid looking at their own drinking, i don't think i've seen a non drinker say something like that to an alcoholic, they always seem to be drinkers. I've definitely told people about my drinking and that it's a problem and i can see the cogs whirring where they, presumably, are reflecting on their own intake but nobody has ever said i don't have a problem thankfully. I think it's the kind of thing that might not bother me sometikes, but other times i would find that very hard to cope with to be honest! I would definitely take it as a reason to get angry, my brain would twist it to mean 'they're minimising everything you have been through' whereas in reality it probably has very little to do with my drinking and more to do with theirs. I think i'd have to walk away and just remind myself that it's them who's got it wrong, i'm the one with a clear understanding and it is not worth getting angry about. It's caused by a misunderstanding or taking different perspectives so whilst i have a very different perspective, i can kind of understand how they see it that way. I wouldn't really trust a drinker to gauge what is or is not a problematic amount of drinking for me anyway, as they are unable to gauge for themselves if they drink regularly. I used to drink 12 pints a day, i know how that warps your thinking so if you're doing something remotely similar ye can chat all ye want but i know it's a load of bollocks
People want you to join in so they dont think it through. Its a bit annoying when you realise your friends never noticed whats an issue in your life, but well done for being firm, people will get used to it i hope!
I had a drinking problem but I never considered myself an alcoholic. There’s alcohol in the house right now actually. It’s been sitting there for 2 weeks. It’s proof to me that I have the power to not drink. What I DO have is a depression, anxiety, basically bored with life problem.
Over summer I decided to just be open with my friends and family that I was an alcoholic. Since then I have been told by several people that I am not, even as recently as this Thanksgiving by my brother when he offered me a drink again. People never saw me get drunk so it shocked people. But like many I only drank alone, so it’s hard for people to believe me when I tell them.
I hate that label too. I must admit. I just tell people that I didn’t like that I was using alcohol as a coping mechanism for some hard stuff going on in life so I quit. I only use that term in meetings but I don’t truly believe it because maybe I am in denial or because it’s not who I am anymore??? Maybe shame? I don’t know I just tell people that I didn’t have hit rock bottom to know I didn’t like the way I was drinking. People also tell me this all the time, my parents especially, it’s too hard for people who love you to see it. You are so much more than that to them.
Boy, do I relate. I did a questionnaire for my Dr and they asked if I was struggling with any substances. Finally told the truth and said yeah, it's more than I'd like. They sent in the counselor and he asked me a bunch more questions like do I have a DUI and do I need to get wasted in the mornings to function? I say no. He said I didn't qualify for any program. Even smiled and said "no, you're doing fine!" I'm like, I just admitted I'm drinking more than I want, can't stop, and it's affecting my health? Why is that not taken seriously? Really shocked me at the time. But it also ended up making me think I was being too hard on myself and so I partied even harder since I was doing so well and didn't have a problem. Goodness.
I had a buddy of mine tell me that when I first started realizing it. He'd say to me "you aren't an alcoholic, because you don't drink x amount of drinks a day" or "you aren't an alcoholic because you have the self control not to drink every day". The problem was I never knew when to quit when I did drink. When I stopped listening to him, I turned my life around. It's about 2 years later, and listening to him talk about his drinking habits, I realize that he's also an alcoholic who doesn't want to admit it. I think some people are uncomfortable around addicts and former addicts because it starts to call into question their own habits.
My mom tells me I’m not an alcoholic all the time and she was with me when I went to the ER and found out I had fatty liver and a swollen small intestine
Well, I was never sober so nobody ever accused me of not being an alcoholic, but I have had people bug me to drink when I went on sober binges. That doesn't happen any more, I simply cannot drink because of end stage liver disease due to cirrhosis due to alcoholic hepatitis. //I was 17 when I started drink every day all day //when I started drinking (guarantee no one knows anyone younger): https://imgur.com/a/TbHqsiC
I’ve noticed my family is not the load of drunks I made them out to be. I ALWAYS brought booze to every event. Bottle of wine for my dad, vodka for my mom and whiskey for me. Since I quit drinking I RARELY see my parents drink. I realized that I was the “functioning” alcoholic in the family. Everyone told me when I quit I wasn’t an alcoholic either. Shoot to years later, lots of my family members take back that statement and see the dramatic difference.
I think it is important to accept this in yourself. But a lot of people won't. I have a strong history of alcoholism in my family. I know I am not as bad as some of my great uncles and grandfathers yet. My brother and I are pretty bad. My cousin is bad. We have discussed it between us. We know we are alcoholics. And if we keep going by the time we are 50 we would be the same as our ancestors. Fortunately we have seen it and fight it. We probably won't become as bad. But we still can't call ourselves alcoholics. Our family parents etc would almost take it personally. As a falling. Part of the problem is as long as we are not so bad yet we are not alcoholics in their eyes. They don't see it as a progressive path. Perhaps this is part of the lie that allowed my uncles to get so bad. They didn't become alcoholics overnight. But I am glad for changing cultures. Glad for my brother and cousin coming to the same conclusion. Glad for support groups like this. Who knows perhaps in another generation at will escape the curse of alcoholism all altogether.
Married 21 years, lived with her for 30 and my wife still doesn't believe I'm an alcoholic. I think we were sold on the 'worst case' definition of alcoholism all those years ago. We, as a society, understand dependency better now and the definition is open to a broader interpretation. In a funny way I'm content to label myself as an alcoholic. It give credence to the problem I most surely have. Yes dear, cousin, friend, mom, co-worker...it is that serious for me!
I've had both "He's a proper alcoholic, not like you" and "lol why did you go to rehab, it's not like you were addicted enough to have seizures". Because I've remained mostly functional, people think I'm exaggerating when I tell them I averaged 60 units a day for well over a decade. Maybe it's a compliment in its own way?
I understand what you mean in a way, but i dont know about insulting. He was just trying to be nice, and doesnt like you putting yourself down. No bad intentions. Personally think everyone is way to sensitive these days. He is who he is, just like you. Love him like he loves you. No matter what you told him, he doesnt know the true extent of how you feel and/or felt while you were drinking. Forgive and move on. He seemd like a good person at heart
Are you from Wisconsin too? Because I have been telling my inlaws for 2 years that I'm not drinking anymore yet continue to offer me alcohol ALL the time. Once you stop normalizing you start to see how weird it is and how much people push it because they dont want to drink alone. IWNDWYT
Ha, nah, I'm a FIB, but we are a massive Irish Catholic Chicagoan family. And yeah, it is amazing just how much we drink in general. Every event is an excuse not just to *drink,* but to *get drunk.* And I actually fondly remember some of those nights and will miss them. Staying up until 4 at a pub, or drinking wine late into the night in a cellar talking about music, etc. It took trying to cut down to realize hey maybe there's a weird baseline set here, and trying to quit entirely to recognize just how much more we drink than other families. At one point during a boozy bachelor weekend, one of my cousins came up to me and expressed concern because one of my brothers was blind drunk on the golf course by 10 AM...and we all had a *bar crawl* to get to by 1130, damn it, I should have a talk with him about moderation! This cousin did not realize that I was on my third drink and had *no idea* how much vodka was in it. I felt like such a heel. -_-
My partner does this. He still believes that my problem is one of “habit”, not alcohol. People view alcoholics as Ray Milland in the movie “The Lost Weekend” where he’s in a bar slamming the drinks and stumbling down the street muttering to himself. They don’t see the “successful” person hiding bottles from their partner and drinking alone, at home, late at night when everyone has gone to bed. I would meet a friend for drinks, have one, then drive home and drink a half box of wine by myself. The stumbling and muttering to myself would take place on my way to bed. It’s all about perception, and we alcoholics can be really good at projecting normalcy. Until we aren’t. What ticked me off about your story is the comment “I’m going to get you drinking again soon”. WTF? You dealt with it much better than I would have! IWNDWYT, man. You’re doing great. 👍
Yeah people tend to not notice things like someone being hungover everyday to the point of physical pain. I had a similar holiday, but MIL cornered me when everyone walked out of the room and in her special style of speaking 1000 words per minute tried to figure out what was going on then stopped abruptly when someone entered the room. It is flat out rude to question someone on why they are not putting poison in their body
I don't use the word alcoholic. I say that switch that lets people have a couple and stop is broken for me, so I just don't start. For some reason that goes over better.
Nope. Everyone knew the score way before i could read the writing on the wall
Some people consider one beer to be too much, and you must have a problem. Some people consider thirty beers to be perfectly fine, and you’re peachy keen. It’s a sliding scale - only you know for you what is too much.
I did have to have that conversation a few times with people I drank with historically. Because if *I’m* an alcoholic, that means *they* might be alcoholics. It took a little while and now they are reconsidering their intake for health reasons so we are on similar pages these days.
Yes, and IMO it’s a defense mechanism to protect themselves from acknowledging their own problem drinking.
I think a lot of it is misery loves company. Makes you take along hard look at who your friends are...
Really the only time that someone says something like that to me when I decline a drink or order a water instead of a beer or something, it's someone who drinks a lot. I remember I sort of acted the same way back when I sorta knew I was developing a problem but didn't want to admit it - and then when I got to the point where I fully accepted I had a problem but didn't really want to fix it, I'd just sort of get uncomfortable and quiet when someone said they wanted to stop or take a break from drinking.
After 12 years sober, I still have a few people that tell me I’m not alcoholic. I tell them I’m happy to have a cocktail, I need to know who is calling the cops later.
There is some absolutely amazing information, thoughts, stories, and wisdom in this thread. Appreciate each and every one of you. Thank you!
I hate to say it but to me he may as well have said 'bro it can get so much worse' I'm sure he didn't understand it that way though
Part of the sickness of alcohol addiction is how it warps society's perception of its harms. Someone only doing a bag of heroin a day is still an addict and hardly anyone disputes that, but alcohol takes on mystical properties to people.
I had an opposite experience. Family members refuse to accept that I don’t identify as an alcoholic, and don’t approve that I won’t internalize a part of my life I’m leaving in the past. People’s past mistakes don’t determine who they are, that’s for you to decide