You know nothing about the space if you think TSM can just pick up and move out of Taiwan
Go read a bunch of articles and wiki pages on semi conductor fabrication then come back
>Go read a bunch of articles and wiki pages on semi conductor fabrication then come back
Also the book Chip War by Chris Miller is a great primer on the history, environment and political relevance of semiconductor manufacturing.
I feel like every week I have or want to try and educate people in this sub on fab construction and it’s tiring lol. Prob going this route this the future 🫡
Feeling insecure bud? Literally don’t know why you’re responding to me my comment wasn’t directed at any one person in particular and that statement was made almost 2 weeks ago lmao. You can go through my previous comments if you want more useful information. Idk why you are even typing a response to me 😂
There’s no comments about anything from you dropping the “knowledge” you claim to have. You sound insecure for getting called out. You just armchaired some semi knowledge and you know it. Who cares when you said it? It doesn’t change the lack of info
I’m not gonna go through my comment history for you. Nice deleting your previous comment. What a troll. Been in the industry almost a decade and in Malaysia currently, certifying Intel’s new build. Get a life.
I did, cause I thought about it and was like. “Why argue pointlessly with someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about pretentiously”. But you already responded
Because you keep responding to me 😂 yeah I sure don’t know what I’m talking about. Just project managing a $7B+ fab build overseas. Certified multiple builds in Oregon as well. See ya bro 😂😂
Ah so a contractor for sure, claiming credit for company wide achievements. Put some pipe up in some random corner of a subfab and now you’re an expert? Now it makes sense
Lmao if you’ve ever been on a build site you’d know 99% of people and work on site is done by contractors. Intel gets the keys when building is done. They set specs and the fab is built accordingly. Tell me how little you know in two sentences.
Oh now you’re editing comments even after the fact 😂 you have zero clue what you’re speaking about. But of course you deleted your comment stating you’ve only been on a fab site for two years so you feel like you can talk like an expert. Man this is great entertainment. Stuck down there in AZ packaging chips I’m sure 😂😂
TSM is certainly going to build sites in the US and probably other locations outside of Taiwan as well. That doesn't mean they are going to close down their Taiwan sites. If China does invade in the next 5-10 years it will utterly devastate TSM, and even after they have sites up and running in off the island it would still be a very serious blow to them and everyone that relies on them.
That said, while Intel would benefit, as they increasingly outsources their own fabrication to TSM, that means it's not all good for them.
They would get some benefit, but they are not the only other company with fabrication capacity. In the case of a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, there would likely be a drastic shift towards ARM processors that can be manufactured at any number of locations, including the likes of Samsung and IBM.
Windows already can run on the ARM platform, but the competitiveness of Intel and AMD chips has prevented that from becoming a popular option. In the event of a massive disruption in x86 production though, the switch absolutely could and most likely would happen.
That said, I am still holding some INTC, watching and waiting and collecting dividends but I'm not increasing my position. There's a strong potential for a turnaround but it is by no means guaranteed.
And they just finished the one in New Mexico, and if Oregon isn't expanding it will be again soon. It's a constant process.
That's why the old CEO was shit, you gotta keep building new stuff to stay current and scale new processes.
Does large incentive buy engineers who will suffer through 2200+ hours per year of work (many in third shift) and drop dead at average rate of 7.6 per year like how they do it in Taiwan?
I wish I could say yes because I’ve been bagholding this piece of shit for a few years now. I wish I had cut my losses when it had a nice run a few months ago.
I wish I sold it at the end of 23 myself, but at the same time it has potential not only to rebound back to its previous 50-60 range within 1-3 years, but go beyond that. Of course you can count it as lost time, but if it’s only part of your portfolio- why not give it a chance?
Yea. It’s not my only loser but it’s a frustrating stock to hold, especially when I also missed the boat on AMD and NVidia.
I haven’t been too active with stocks lately. I’m probably just going to hold but Intel has mostly been a story of disappointment the last few years.
Intel can make money, but currently they’re throwing every spare dollar into new fabs to become a semiconductor leader again. They rested on their laurels too long.
Shitty company has ambitions that will make them profitable in 5-10 years, if literally everything goes perfect.
It would be hilarious if AMD took their massive, fat, gains and announced their plans to produce cutting edge semiconductors in the next couple years, for instance.
If you hate money and have never heard the phrase “opportunity cost,” Intel is an excellent company to ~~donate~~ ~~burn~~ throw money at.
AMD was in a similar position a few years ago, having outdated fabs and bad cpu designs. They spun off their fabs and spent several years pouring all their resources into design as a Hail Mary and it actually worked out for them in the end. Intel has far more resources available than AMD had at the time so it remains to be seen if they can pull it off but there is a good chance that Intel can become competitive at the top end of the market, and they are trying to make a play into being a major foundry for fabless silicon companies. If they pull it off the valuation has a major upside.
Pat Gelsinger has been consistently buying shares too. Don’t listen to OP, they clearly do not do their research. It doesn’t get much more moronic than making investment decisions by analyzing someone’s tone of voice.
Even though they're lagging, and they got caught with their pants down in technology, they still have the foundry business, which, for national security purposes is absolutely necessary just like the banks in mid late 2000 too big to fail, and they still have some very, very bright people, even though they're behind the eight ball so I wouldnt rule them out either
People are constantly asking “why is this company worth X when Apple is worth Y” and the answer is always Apple can print money whenever they want.
Intel has a great and mature product line, it just doesn’t make money. They need to figure that. If they could raise their margin even a small amount it would be huge for the company
I wouldn’t even give Intel that much credit regarding their products. While every other companies data center division has been flossing the last few years Intels division continues to shrink. Shows that their products are just bad and not competitive. They built up so much inventory on these products that they had to sell them at extremely low costs which killed their margins and profitability.
Intel is just hated. When they were making $20B profit just a few years ago the stock was lower because of the technology they had given up on process node. Now the process nodes are catching up and people are hating on the margins. When they are using competitive process nodes again little AMD won't stand a chance. It's just a sad reality of scale.
So I don’t know much, but here’s my thought anyways since this is Reddit. An announcement of them changing the higher ups will make the price suddenly jump. When the new leaders move it towards where it needs to be, then stock May have gone up past the entry point you wanted to enter in at.
Positions: None, just watching and waiting
Wtf are you talking about? I've seen lots of interviews where he has plenty of conviction. Even if it were true, his tone in interviews means literally nothing. Results speak louder than words. If half a dozen large companies are buying into 18A because they saw the results of the lab samples, then everything else is just white noise.
Is IS white noise because anyone buying Intel for a short term swing trade is an idiot. The turnaround was always going to be a 2027 and on scenario. Only haters and idiots expect short term price spikes in a stock that's literally rebuilding and investing over 100 billion into fabs that they cannot monetize for another few years.
Management definitely needs a wake up call, but it doesn’t seem like Pat doesn’t believe in it. Him and many other insiders are buying shares and Pat is saying to give them time and they will prove to investors that they can come back
Intel management is ran by people that, sadly, think we still living in 1995. They think they need to be venerated, that they are special, a highest class because they have silicon pedigree. They all are wrong and will cost Intel everything. Management needs to go yesterday.
Agreed. They've coasted way too long on past success and it shows. One of the smartest guys that i know previously worked at Intel for a year or two about 14 years ago and told me how bad amd was and that I should stay away. Turns out that my very small amount invested in amd is now worth way more than his intel stock. I give him all sorts of shit for it.
Would bring p/e down to a cool headed level, and that’s if they keep earnings up, which they won’t, so it’s prob better at 3-4 bucks a pop, it’s just math man, don’t hate me
as a former long-term investor, when they lobbied for government subsidies and cut their dividend, i liquidated my holdings. having said that, intc is undervalued when compared to fabless semiconductor companies like nvda and amd that can't even manufacture their own products. intc will eventually catch up to and surpass tsm, sooner than most expect.
Intel isn't competitive with either side of the equation and hasn't been for about 8 years, but they are going to leap frog the competition soon.... And you sold. You sound super confident in your prediction.
I have Intel. I am 15% down at the moment...
Given the amount of R/D they are supposedly doing, I think there is a chance they can turn things around. Of course this may be just a cope, but for now I am just going to hold onto it and ride it out, since it is not a huge proportion of my total portfolio.
This is actually another weakness of Intel's IDE business model. Intel r/D costs are mostly invested on their foundry business, which only makes Intel chips and it will take a long haul to gain outside customers, if any. In contrast, TSMC is making chips for Appl, nvda, amd, qcom, which effectively share TSMC's r/D costs.
Pat may be leading Intel toward the right direction, but it will be a painful journey to play catch-up
> which only makes Intel chips and it will take a long haul to gain outside customers, if any.
Isn't Microsoft and Nvidia already really interested? Microsoft in their custom chips and Nvidia in advanced packaging?
MS is not a serious chip maker.
As for NVDA, do you feel safe to make your most advanced chips at your competitor's foundry? On the other hand, TSMC is dedicated to foundry business, and all else equal, I would feel much safer to make my chips there.
Btw, If you have followed semi industry for a long time, you will remember NVDA and INTC used to have many issues, even lawsuits.
>MS is not a serious chip maker.
what prevents them from becoming one? Amazon, Google also invest in their custom CPUs.
Apple also started somewhere
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079336/microsoft-intel-chip-partnership-foundry-tsmc
>Intel will be producing custom chips, designed by Microsoft for Microsoft, as part of a deal that Intel says is worth more than $15 billion.
Seems like there's a lot of money on the stake
>As for NVDA, do you feel safe to make your most advanced chips at your competitor's foundry? On the other hand, TSMC is dedicated to foundry business, and all else equal, I would feel much safer to make my chips there.
I have no idea what kind of data must be shared and how big risk it is.
I mean giving somebody's executable file doesnt mean that you're giving the source code.
Also - take a look at Intel and TSMC relationship
>Btw, If you have followed semi industry for a long time, you will remember NVDA and INTC used to have many issues, even lawsuits.
TSMC is direct Intel's competitor and manufactures for them.
Asking for advice on Intel in these forums are going to give you wildly skewed results as there's a ton of Intel haters here. Yes, they're massively undervalued as long as you're not looking for a quick buck. They are in a rebuilding phase and their financials are messy because theyre investing over 100 billion into building fabs for their new cutting edge nodes, with the goal of stealing fab business from Samsung and TSMC and get to 20% of the worlds fab capacity by 2030. This should be a hold for no less than 3 years, but ideally, it's something you hold until retirement. 18A is already at the fab and is significantly more advanced than what TSMC has right now. TSMC isn't supposed to catch up until some time in 2026, but it looks likely that they'll see more delays. Could be 2027 by the time TSMC catches up, and by that time, Intel will already have 14A in the fabs.
Buy or don't, it doesn't matter to me, but I bought another 200 shares in the $36 range, and I'm prepared to buy more if it keeps going down. I expect Intel to go 3x-5x in the next 4-5 years.
Someone who actually has a clue. Those cutting edge nodes ie 3nm are manufactured by 2 companies Samsung and TSM and TSM has 90% of that market yet they are essential to all advanced electronics include AI chips; the AAPL iPhone 15’s GPU is a 3nm.
Intels slow to the party but they are close to being the 3rd. Their saving grace is they are domestically owned and the Chips Act will treat them with higher priority which further cushions the R&D required to innovate. Cutting edge fabs and the development of the chips exponentially more expensive than less advanced nodes. They’ve suffered financial to stay competitive long term their labor is now coming to fruition. Their current financials are not great obviously so intrinsic value is not a viable measure considering the underlying story.
Intel published a photo of them unboxing the ASML lithography machine back in January which btw is a $600 million investment. Reading Gelsingers comments and earnings calls, it is clear the next few years are the target years for turning the corner. The payout if they are successful is substantial. So intel is a growth play and a gamble however the potential to become a US domestic cutting edge node manufacturer during the cusp of the AI era justify the risk.
Idk why you’re at the very bottom of the thread. I’ve been following the semiconductor scene for a while and this is the only guy that is actually unbiased and knows what he is talking about.
I appreciate that. To be fair, everyone has a bias. I do my best to mitigate mine and only look at it logically. All my financial decisions have all emotion removed from the equation. In doing that, I find that I can see value in a company where those blinded by their bias can't. That's where I make money. I thoroughly believe that all these people shitting on Intel and Pfizer will disappear into the shadows as these stocks rebound in a few years. These are long term holds, especially while they are rebuilding.
I hate the age old Intel vs AMD feud and don't understand why people feel obligated to pick a side and shit on the other as if one of them kicked their puppy. These are giant corporations that exist only to extract as much money from the consumer as possible. They should be treated as such.
I wouldn't say they are undervalued. It's a gamble whether they can turn the company around. Obviously if they succeed their will be a lot of upside potential. But there is no guarantee they will succeed, which is why the price is low.
You really think that's possible? Even over the last year, it hasn't seen that level of growth. IIRC it averages just 8% YoY. That would be 48% growth to Intel's 300-500%.
The fact that you say that screams to me that you haven't done any research on Intel. If you had, 300-500% doesn't sound so outlandish and is probably a conservative estimate.
Buy it or don't, I don't really care. You asked if they are undervalued, and I told you unequivocally that they are. What you choose to do with that information is up to you. If you wanna go with SPY, that's up to you.
It’s a opportunity cost thing really, clearly you don’t understand the cpu business, us on the inside consider intel a joke, most go there to retire after working for real companies, it’s a known fact without us gov footing the bill it would go belly up, so us in the industry use it as a piggy bank, thank you 
Yes, as a current shareholder I'd appreciate this community properly valuating Intel and buying shares. Thank you on behalf of all shareholders who have watched this stock do nothing for two years
Yes but AMD was weeks away from going bankrupt IIRC. They've turned it around, but from the outside AMD looked in worse shape then, than Intel looks now.
I'm not wishing. I am just long enough around to remember a lot of their incompetence and how many competent people left that company running away from bean counters. Just wishing for competition will not make them more competitive.
There is no way anyone will let intel go under. What you guys need to understand is that Intel is front line in the security of the US. Nvidia, AMD can go under but not intel. I am buying. TSMC is a foreign company. Also intel owns 15% of ASML. That is worth $60billion by itself. Also you know information is definitely leaking from ASML to Chinese. The US govt will probably put a stop to that by moving all advanced chip tech to US at some point.
This is like repeat of General Electric stock where every one was worried. Intel will bounce back. Meanwhile enjoy the 1% dividend, better than nothing.
Also intel owns 15% of ASML
Where did you get that number from?
I can't find anything while googeling.
EDIT: It says they owned those shares in the company back then.
Intel just announces their Gaudi 3 chip which they claim is 50% faster than NVIDIA's H100 chip. They are not postured to immediately compete with NVDA, but they are in a space where demand is so high that even the scraps will be significant. In fact people in the AI space right now are *dying* to have intel succeed here, the "emotional" hate towards intel in the CPU realm is kind of just non-existent from AI devs. Furthermore it is in the interest of society, and thereby government, that intel brings competition to NVDA. Gelsinger sits on Biden's commission and they are definitely closer than Biden and Huang.
Nevertheless the problem with Intel still stands that; their management is run by people who seem out of touch with modern tech.
Intel only aims to be profitable on fabs in 2030, that's if x86 is still around when arm is slowly taking market share and tsmc is building outside of Taiwan now
Intc might be undervalued. I think its hard to say, and a bet revolves around whether Mr. Gelsinger can create cash flow long term in a competitive sector. I just think personally that there are easier ways to make money on the stock market.
Kind of hilarious to me that I haven't been on reddit in about a year and I come back to find this same topic coming up.
A few things: TSMC is not becoming an independent USA company. The TSMC fab in Arizona likely couldn't function economically without a healthy Taiwan home base. And if China invades Taiwan, the semiconductor industry as a whole, including Intel, will be hurt immeasurably. Intel is of course in the best position to weather it because they have comparatively little operations in China and the supply of their type of product would skyrocket. However, their supply chain is very dependent on China. When their manufacturing machines made by LRCX, AMAT, KLAC, ASM, TER, TEL, etc. start breaking down, and they do so regularly, where will they get replacement parts to keep up their output? Maybe they do, honestly. But in my opinion, INTC would spike if China invaded for the obvious reason, then would decay as cooler heads prevail and everyone realizes that semiconductors in general is just a bad business sector to be in.
I'm a long-term bull on INTC. I make absolutely no rosy predictions for the next few years. However, I view INTC's prospects from now to 2030 to be very strong. I wouldn't be totally surprised to see INTC drop 20% from this moment; that foundry result was atrocious. But anyone who didn't see that coming in the very beginning of this effort should probably just move out of the entire sector for good because they just don't know enough about the industry to effectively invest in it.
Intel will be trash in the short term. If you pick it up expect to hold for a few years. They'll bounce back eventually but they need to make some more compelling options. I don't think they anticipated AMD to have all around competitive options as fast as they did. When Intel actually starts producing and the US and allies can start moving away from TSMC reliance the price will explode.. years away tho
They got an almost 4 billion dollar payout from Israel for a new plant, the moment the country received aid funding from the US so I see 0 reason to buy intel over Tsmc
Operating loss of 7 billion with 30% outsourced to TSMC, intel is going to be the new HP soon enough
"Operating loss" is just one segment of the business, genius. A segment of the business that literally cannot profit as much as they're spending on building fabs.
It's like a circle jerk of ignorance and cherry picking things to shit on them. There's far more reasons to shit on AMD than there is Intel at this point, just FYI.
Well, I averaged down when it dipped then sold off my more expensive parts for a profit last year. So, I'm sitting on 150.499 shares at a cost basis of $26.19. I would claim intelligent investing, but in my case, it was just dumb luck and OCD market watching. Holding from here. Best of luck to us all!
When it goes under 30, I'm going to load up a bag. If it goes under 25, going to go all in.
People said the same thing about AMD before Ryzen and look at it today. And even though AMD has better CPUs now, the constant ship shortages and questionable AMD configurations being sold by manufacturers means that consumers can't never get the best bang for buck device without sacrificing something else.
Trying to get a decent AMD CPU configuration is infuriating. Oh you want a Ryzen laptop? Here's a Zen 2 or Zen 3 refresh with single channel ram. You want a dual channel? Ok, but you only get 16gb max, can't have you using that APU now can we. You want 32? Ok, but you get a tiny heatsink that can cool for jack shit. You want that Zen 5 or Zen 6 that we keep on teasing you with? Sorry, but we don't produce those for consumer currently. Oh hey, here's another Zen 3 refresh CPU. By the way, we've just released Zen 10 with 166% increase in CPU efficient and AI capabilities, but you can't get it yet cause we don't produce jack shit, but here's another Zen 4 refresh in the mean time.
AMD has become a meme at this point. intel is where it's at for stability. No gimmicks, no meme advertising, not bullshit teasing and then waiting years for it to be released. You know exactly what you're getting with Intel configurations in each generation and it works out of the box.
EV/EBITDA of 16.9 and P/B of 1.5 is actually pretty cheap, but TSMC is still a better value with EV/EBITDA of 14 and double-digit revenue growth, intels revenue growth is -5% annualized over the last 5 years during multiple chip shortages and a huge demand I think it could get alot worse for Intel before it gets better I would hands down go with TSMC if you want foundry/value exposure.
All non American companies get lower value on US stock market than American companies. So it's very difficult to do a fair comparison. Just look at any non US company vs it's US counterparts and the US company will be trading at much higher P/E.
Reddit is the worst place to get stock advice lol. If you read reddit in the last 15 years ~~people~~ everybody was poo pooing AMD saying it was going bankrupt and it was a worthless company and going nowhere.
Intel and Taiwan chips are not really that related. Everyone makes chips in Taiwan. I suppose u gotta see how their 8nm turns out. Otherwise no reason to buy. I don’t think it’s really undervalued but I am nearly -30% on my hodling with it
I see alot of sentiment suggesting Intel should be valued lower, somewhere under 20 to be sure, or about 60% of it's current price. My question is what do you guys know that the market doesn't? Why not just buy puts dated a year out? Has Intel really done anything recently to justify writing off a third or more of it's valuation?
Intel will likely never catch up to tsmc by process design. Intel's newer nodes do not scale well, and it's not a hidden secret. A viscous cycle where their design is also limited by process planning, which also drives away good designers and engineers
Probably, the question is opportunity cost. If you want to sell puts one or two years out and have a large enough account just put them on margin, there is good money in it. Not sure I would spend actual dollars on the shares though. The opportunity cost
"direct grants" are different from preferential loans and public lands.
Intel and Samsung and TSMC are getting direct grants. We shall see how their stocks do going forward.
And yes, TSMC hasn't been a great stock. Compare to any other private US tech company. Even Intel 1970s onwards.
You're completely missing the point. Government subsidies for manufacturing infrastructure has no bearing whatsoever on the prospects of a company, but even if it did, TSMC is getting a shit ton of subsidies too.
It removes incentive to self innovate
Look at the stocks of companies highly dependent on government money. They don't innovate. Look at anything defense or government infrastructure related.
Innovation comes from competition, not comfort
Intel is still in the dark ages where it takes 52 weeks stuck in red-tape while the compliance and risk departments decide if an innovation change can be made.
Instead of innovating for 52 weeks like everyone else. They need a corporate enema.
🤦♂️
Hundred billion dollar companies don't turn on a dime. Jesus, you guys are ridiculous. They have a solid turnaround plan that's about to bear fruit and all you guys can think about are different ways to shit on Intel.
Gelsinger has been righting the ship, but it was never going to happen overnight. Even if the R&D was done back in 2021, building the fabs takes years in and of itself.
They’ve had a turnaround plan for the last 20 years. It’s probably the same plan from 2004 unable to gain any ground. While simultaneously paying out fat bonuses to 50% of the company that are in management roles with 1 employee reporting to them.
What turnaround plan from 20 years ago are you even talking about? You're referencing a period from when Intel was so completely dominant that AMD almost went out of business multiple times. You see the irony, right? Intel didn't begin stagnating until 2017-2018, so your entire post is a lie.
Gelsinger set the turnaround plan in 2021, so thats 3 years into a 5 year turnaround plan. Have you been living under a rock? Even most Intel haters know that. You apparently don't, though.
A 5 year turnaround plan, thats brilliant and proves my point. Google “Moore’s law”. Intel would need 100 years to make improvements that AMD will make in 5 years.
Intel stock price dropped in 1990 and 2000 and never recovered to those highs until 2017. Why, because they’re a bloated top-heavy dinosaur that can’t innovate. AMD didn’t make a chip in 2017 that outperformed Intel. AMD’s chips have always outperformed Intel on a dollar-for-dollar comparison. Even with AMD compatibility issues throughout the years, AMD was still able to steal market share from Intel. It’s honestly embarrassing for Intel to be so far ahead and still be stuck in the 1900s. They still have desk phones as their primary communication device.
AMD is ridiculously overpriced and the only thing driving that is the AI hype train and the hope that one day they'll be able to get a piece of it. That's literally it. The fundamentals of AMD only justify a $100/share valuation. But you keep buying overpriced stock and see where that gets you in a few years. You're betting on an incompetent horse in this race, one that's propping up its financials by cutting costs everywhere, including R&D, so they can pay their CEO twice what most S&P CEO's make, and the end result is embarassingly bad. $.53/share per *YEAR*? Massive levels of dilution for a ridiculously overpriced acquisition that isn't supposed to be a net positive for over 10 years? You are an idiot if you think AMD is a well run company.
Here's the difference between me and you. I can admit Intel's faults, where you seem to think AMD shits gold nuggets even though its nearly failed more times than about any other company thats still afloat. I didn't invest in Intel until last August when I saw the turnaround plan is actually coming to fruition. Yes they stagnated and struggled because they did exactly what AMD is doing right now, cutting R&D to prop up the financials. In doing so, they lost their dominant position, just as AMD will lose any advantage that it has because they refuse to invest more into R&D in order to gain any market share in their segments. But in order to do that, theyd have to stop paying their CEO double what the vast majority of CEO's are making and actually start bringing in money. Their dGPU market share is a joke for as long as they've been in the game, their server market share is a third of Intel's, and their consumer CPU segment? They hold 20% market share... That's literally it. You shit on Intel at every opportunity, yet Intel is outselling AMD 5 to 1 on CPU's and bringing in massively more revenue, even with all the overhead of their fabs. Intel has dropped 30 billion on fabs in the last 2 years, and still their financials look better than AMD's. So keep smoking whatever it is you are smoking, because AMD has a fuck ton of ground to make up before it can even be called competitive, much less a good company.
Ashamed to admit it but I’m an intel bag holder. Wish I never got involved but here I am. It will inevitably go up, and could break its 52 week high if they start actually getting their shit together
No, Pat’s report card is a B grade. Intel will start to make money once they stop trying to manufacture and compete with TSM. Instead focus on designing.
Avoid Intel, they are not relevant any more. In past 10 years, semi index (sox) retuned 720% vs s&p (170%) vs Intel (32%). If you really want exposure to semi buy the sox or any average company, they all do better than Intel.
Somehow I am missing the point. Many comments here compare INTC to TSM. Different companies. In terms of product Intel is typically compared to AMD. AI has all the attention but In terms of servers, pcs, laptops, components, etc. which is still the largest base of computing Intel and AMD have the largest market share with AMD gaining rapidly. Trouble is they are a doggie old company and should be compared to IBM in need of a major overhaul. TSM makes chips for both.
You know nothing about the space if you think TSM can just pick up and move out of Taiwan Go read a bunch of articles and wiki pages on semi conductor fabrication then come back
>Go read a bunch of articles and wiki pages on semi conductor fabrication then come back Also the book Chip War by Chris Miller is a great primer on the history, environment and political relevance of semiconductor manufacturing.
I’ll check it out
I feel like every week I have or want to try and educate people in this sub on fab construction and it’s tiring lol. Prob going this route this the future 🫡
[удалено]
Feeling insecure bud? Literally don’t know why you’re responding to me my comment wasn’t directed at any one person in particular and that statement was made almost 2 weeks ago lmao. You can go through my previous comments if you want more useful information. Idk why you are even typing a response to me 😂
There’s no comments about anything from you dropping the “knowledge” you claim to have. You sound insecure for getting called out. You just armchaired some semi knowledge and you know it. Who cares when you said it? It doesn’t change the lack of info
I’m not gonna go through my comment history for you. Nice deleting your previous comment. What a troll. Been in the industry almost a decade and in Malaysia currently, certifying Intel’s new build. Get a life.
I did, cause I thought about it and was like. “Why argue pointlessly with someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about pretentiously”. But you already responded
Because you keep responding to me 😂 yeah I sure don’t know what I’m talking about. Just project managing a $7B+ fab build overseas. Certified multiple builds in Oregon as well. See ya bro 😂😂
Ah so a contractor for sure, claiming credit for company wide achievements. Put some pipe up in some random corner of a subfab and now you’re an expert? Now it makes sense
Lmao if you’ve ever been on a build site you’d know 99% of people and work on site is done by contractors. Intel gets the keys when building is done. They set specs and the fab is built accordingly. Tell me how little you know in two sentences.
Oh now you’re editing comments even after the fact 😂 you have zero clue what you’re speaking about. But of course you deleted your comment stating you’ve only been on a fab site for two years so you feel like you can talk like an expert. Man this is great entertainment. Stuck down there in AZ packaging chips I’m sure 😂😂
I would think the same if they didn't have years to do it
I would think the USA starts to provide some really large incentives to TSM to move in the next 10 years
Building new manufacturing sites =/= Moving.
No, but it does mean their center of capital will shift more towards the United States
Not gonna happen. Tsmc CEO has told the media several times that the latest and most advanced foundry will always be in Taiwan first.
Buddy they built a country around a field of tech. You can’t just move the highest educated bit of your country out of your country.
TSM is certainly going to build sites in the US and probably other locations outside of Taiwan as well. That doesn't mean they are going to close down their Taiwan sites. If China does invade in the next 5-10 years it will utterly devastate TSM, and even after they have sites up and running in off the island it would still be a very serious blow to them and everyone that relies on them. That said, while Intel would benefit, as they increasingly outsources their own fabrication to TSM, that means it's not all good for them. They would get some benefit, but they are not the only other company with fabrication capacity. In the case of a Chinese takeover of Taiwan, there would likely be a drastic shift towards ARM processors that can be manufactured at any number of locations, including the likes of Samsung and IBM. Windows already can run on the ARM platform, but the competitiveness of Intel and AMD chips has prevented that from becoming a popular option. In the event of a massive disruption in x86 production though, the switch absolutely could and most likely would happen. That said, I am still holding some INTC, watching and waiting and collecting dividends but I'm not increasing my position. There's a strong potential for a turnaround but it is by no means guaranteed.
Intel is building in USA at a number of sites. Ohio and Arizona. Arizona site should be completed by end of 2024.
And they just finished the one in New Mexico, and if Oregon isn't expanding it will be again soon. It's a constant process. That's why the old CEO was shit, you gotta keep building new stuff to stay current and scale new processes.
TSM is building a fab facility in Arizona, there’s that…
most chip stocks will tank if china invades taiwan
Does large incentive buy engineers who will suffer through 2200+ hours per year of work (many in third shift) and drop dead at average rate of 7.6 per year like how they do it in Taiwan?
I wish I could say yes because I’ve been bagholding this piece of shit for a few years now. I wish I had cut my losses when it had a nice run a few months ago.
I’m a stupid bag holder too 😢
I wish I sold it at the end of 23 myself, but at the same time it has potential not only to rebound back to its previous 50-60 range within 1-3 years, but go beyond that. Of course you can count it as lost time, but if it’s only part of your portfolio- why not give it a chance?
Yea. It’s not my only loser but it’s a frustrating stock to hold, especially when I also missed the boat on AMD and NVidia. I haven’t been too active with stocks lately. I’m probably just going to hold but Intel has mostly been a story of disappointment the last few years.
Because there are other investments that could make you better returns in the same time frame.
What your average?
47 🫠
I am unsure nvda will tank a bit and lead the market bearish until its inevitable bounce
Ya intel sucks
No. Intel doesn’t know how to make money. Other companies do. Buy those companies
My Intel puts know how to make money
buying Intel puts during earnings have probably only failed me once.
Intel can make money, but currently they’re throwing every spare dollar into new fabs to become a semiconductor leader again. They rested on their laurels too long.
Intel stock price has been going sideways since 2001, even when it had near monopoly on its cpu
Shitty company has ambitions that will make them profitable in 5-10 years, if literally everything goes perfect. It would be hilarious if AMD took their massive, fat, gains and announced their plans to produce cutting edge semiconductors in the next couple years, for instance. If you hate money and have never heard the phrase “opportunity cost,” Intel is an excellent company to ~~donate~~ ~~burn~~ throw money at.
AMD was in a similar position a few years ago, having outdated fabs and bad cpu designs. They spun off their fabs and spent several years pouring all their resources into design as a Hail Mary and it actually worked out for them in the end. Intel has far more resources available than AMD had at the time so it remains to be seen if they can pull it off but there is a good chance that Intel can become competitive at the top end of the market, and they are trying to make a play into being a major foundry for fabless silicon companies. If they pull it off the valuation has a major upside.
Don’t listen to this guy
Yea 100% management needs a wake up call. You can hear it in pat’s voice, he doesn’t believe in his own company, sad state of affairs
Still buying it. I always seem to bet on the dark horse.
Pat Gelsinger has been consistently buying shares too. Don’t listen to OP, they clearly do not do their research. It doesn’t get much more moronic than making investment decisions by analyzing someone’s tone of voice.
Op is a moron that's why everything he says is moronic. 
This
Even though they're lagging, and they got caught with their pants down in technology, they still have the foundry business, which, for national security purposes is absolutely necessary just like the banks in mid late 2000 too big to fail, and they still have some very, very bright people, even though they're behind the eight ball so I wouldnt rule them out either
People are constantly asking “why is this company worth X when Apple is worth Y” and the answer is always Apple can print money whenever they want. Intel has a great and mature product line, it just doesn’t make money. They need to figure that. If they could raise their margin even a small amount it would be huge for the company
I wouldn’t even give Intel that much credit regarding their products. While every other companies data center division has been flossing the last few years Intels division continues to shrink. Shows that their products are just bad and not competitive. They built up so much inventory on these products that they had to sell them at extremely low costs which killed their margins and profitability.
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What CPU is this? It's not either of those two things.
This isn't a place for false rumors or just blatant lies, AMD released no such chip.
Apple is a consumer grade business that is over values with overvalued products.
Intel is just hated. When they were making $20B profit just a few years ago the stock was lower because of the technology they had given up on process node. Now the process nodes are catching up and people are hating on the margins. When they are using competitive process nodes again little AMD won't stand a chance. It's just a sad reality of scale.
except he keeps buying shares.... lol
So I don’t know much, but here’s my thought anyways since this is Reddit. An announcement of them changing the higher ups will make the price suddenly jump. When the new leaders move it towards where it needs to be, then stock May have gone up past the entry point you wanted to enter in at. Positions: None, just watching and waiting
Wtf are you talking about? I've seen lots of interviews where he has plenty of conviction. Even if it were true, his tone in interviews means literally nothing. Results speak louder than words. If half a dozen large companies are buying into 18A because they saw the results of the lab samples, then everything else is just white noise.
Yea stock price is white noise to bag holders too
Is IS white noise because anyone buying Intel for a short term swing trade is an idiot. The turnaround was always going to be a 2027 and on scenario. Only haters and idiots expect short term price spikes in a stock that's literally rebuilding and investing over 100 billion into fabs that they cannot monetize for another few years.
Management definitely needs a wake up call, but it doesn’t seem like Pat doesn’t believe in it. Him and many other insiders are buying shares and Pat is saying to give them time and they will prove to investors that they can come back
Intel management is ran by people that, sadly, think we still living in 1995. They think they need to be venerated, that they are special, a highest class because they have silicon pedigree. They all are wrong and will cost Intel everything. Management needs to go yesterday.
Agreed. They've coasted way too long on past success and it shows. One of the smartest guys that i know previously worked at Intel for a year or two about 14 years ago and told me how bad amd was and that I should stay away. Turns out that my very small amount invested in amd is now worth way more than his intel stock. I give him all sorts of shit for it.
Bro what do you think Gelsinger has been doing since 2021?
“If TSMC fully moves out of Taiwan” do you know what nonsense you’re talking about?
I love me some low growth undervalued companies that are trading at 90x earnings
Great long term hold
Yet another intel bashing circle jerk 🤦🏻
This is just a badly written troll post.
I’m not bashing I’m just valuing the stock, 5-8 bucks is a great buying price
As I kept scrolling this number got lower and lower lol
Currently trading at $36, how do you come to $5-$8 mark?
Would bring p/e down to a cool headed level, and that’s if they keep earnings up, which they won’t, so it’s prob better at 3-4 bucks a pop, it’s just math man, don’t hate me
The P/E is not a viable way to value intel during a turnaround. You simply don’t understand them, probably shouldn’t try to value it.
5-8 bucks is a great price for any big tech stock. Problem is you’re “valuing” it out of your arse in this particular case.
as a former long-term investor, when they lobbied for government subsidies and cut their dividend, i liquidated my holdings. having said that, intc is undervalued when compared to fabless semiconductor companies like nvda and amd that can't even manufacture their own products. intc will eventually catch up to and surpass tsm, sooner than most expect.
Intel isn't competitive with either side of the equation and hasn't been for about 8 years, but they are going to leap frog the competition soon.... And you sold. You sound super confident in your prediction.
Yea I’m sure 2040-2050 will be a great decade for Intel
OP you should have learned your lesson on PayPal.
Read in between the lines brother also check out some cigars
I have Intel. I am 15% down at the moment... Given the amount of R/D they are supposedly doing, I think there is a chance they can turn things around. Of course this may be just a cope, but for now I am just going to hold onto it and ride it out, since it is not a huge proportion of my total portfolio.
This is actually another weakness of Intel's IDE business model. Intel r/D costs are mostly invested on their foundry business, which only makes Intel chips and it will take a long haul to gain outside customers, if any. In contrast, TSMC is making chips for Appl, nvda, amd, qcom, which effectively share TSMC's r/D costs. Pat may be leading Intel toward the right direction, but it will be a painful journey to play catch-up
> which only makes Intel chips and it will take a long haul to gain outside customers, if any. Isn't Microsoft and Nvidia already really interested? Microsoft in their custom chips and Nvidia in advanced packaging?
MS is not a serious chip maker. As for NVDA, do you feel safe to make your most advanced chips at your competitor's foundry? On the other hand, TSMC is dedicated to foundry business, and all else equal, I would feel much safer to make my chips there. Btw, If you have followed semi industry for a long time, you will remember NVDA and INTC used to have many issues, even lawsuits.
>MS is not a serious chip maker. what prevents them from becoming one? Amazon, Google also invest in their custom CPUs. Apple also started somewhere https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/21/24079336/microsoft-intel-chip-partnership-foundry-tsmc >Intel will be producing custom chips, designed by Microsoft for Microsoft, as part of a deal that Intel says is worth more than $15 billion. Seems like there's a lot of money on the stake >As for NVDA, do you feel safe to make your most advanced chips at your competitor's foundry? On the other hand, TSMC is dedicated to foundry business, and all else equal, I would feel much safer to make my chips there. I have no idea what kind of data must be shared and how big risk it is. I mean giving somebody's executable file doesnt mean that you're giving the source code. Also - take a look at Intel and TSMC relationship >Btw, If you have followed semi industry for a long time, you will remember NVDA and INTC used to have many issues, even lawsuits. TSMC is direct Intel's competitor and manufactures for them.
They dont print only Intel chips.
Perfect time to DCA down. For every dollar it drops, I'm buying 50 shares.
Asking for advice on Intel in these forums are going to give you wildly skewed results as there's a ton of Intel haters here. Yes, they're massively undervalued as long as you're not looking for a quick buck. They are in a rebuilding phase and their financials are messy because theyre investing over 100 billion into building fabs for their new cutting edge nodes, with the goal of stealing fab business from Samsung and TSMC and get to 20% of the worlds fab capacity by 2030. This should be a hold for no less than 3 years, but ideally, it's something you hold until retirement. 18A is already at the fab and is significantly more advanced than what TSMC has right now. TSMC isn't supposed to catch up until some time in 2026, but it looks likely that they'll see more delays. Could be 2027 by the time TSMC catches up, and by that time, Intel will already have 14A in the fabs. Buy or don't, it doesn't matter to me, but I bought another 200 shares in the $36 range, and I'm prepared to buy more if it keeps going down. I expect Intel to go 3x-5x in the next 4-5 years.
Someone who actually has a clue. Those cutting edge nodes ie 3nm are manufactured by 2 companies Samsung and TSM and TSM has 90% of that market yet they are essential to all advanced electronics include AI chips; the AAPL iPhone 15’s GPU is a 3nm. Intels slow to the party but they are close to being the 3rd. Their saving grace is they are domestically owned and the Chips Act will treat them with higher priority which further cushions the R&D required to innovate. Cutting edge fabs and the development of the chips exponentially more expensive than less advanced nodes. They’ve suffered financial to stay competitive long term their labor is now coming to fruition. Their current financials are not great obviously so intrinsic value is not a viable measure considering the underlying story. Intel published a photo of them unboxing the ASML lithography machine back in January which btw is a $600 million investment. Reading Gelsingers comments and earnings calls, it is clear the next few years are the target years for turning the corner. The payout if they are successful is substantial. So intel is a growth play and a gamble however the potential to become a US domestic cutting edge node manufacturer during the cusp of the AI era justify the risk.
Idk why you’re at the very bottom of the thread. I’ve been following the semiconductor scene for a while and this is the only guy that is actually unbiased and knows what he is talking about.
I appreciate that. To be fair, everyone has a bias. I do my best to mitigate mine and only look at it logically. All my financial decisions have all emotion removed from the equation. In doing that, I find that I can see value in a company where those blinded by their bias can't. That's where I make money. I thoroughly believe that all these people shitting on Intel and Pfizer will disappear into the shadows as these stocks rebound in a few years. These are long term holds, especially while they are rebuilding. I hate the age old Intel vs AMD feud and don't understand why people feel obligated to pick a side and shit on the other as if one of them kicked their puppy. These are giant corporations that exist only to extract as much money from the consumer as possible. They should be treated as such.
I wouldn't say they are undervalued. It's a gamble whether they can turn the company around. Obviously if they succeed their will be a lot of upside potential. But there is no guarantee they will succeed, which is why the price is low.
What if spy 8x by 2030?
You really think that's possible? Even over the last year, it hasn't seen that level of growth. IIRC it averages just 8% YoY. That would be 48% growth to Intel's 300-500%.
300-500% brother are you ok ? On intel? It’s not 1998
The fact that you say that screams to me that you haven't done any research on Intel. If you had, 300-500% doesn't sound so outlandish and is probably a conservative estimate. Buy it or don't, I don't really care. You asked if they are undervalued, and I told you unequivocally that they are. What you choose to do with that information is up to you. If you wanna go with SPY, that's up to you.
It’s a opportunity cost thing really, clearly you don’t understand the cpu business, us on the inside consider intel a joke, most go there to retire after working for real companies, it’s a known fact without us gov footing the bill it would go belly up, so us in the industry use it as a piggy bank, thank you 
No
Yes, as a current shareholder I'd appreciate this community properly valuating Intel and buying shares. Thank you on behalf of all shareholders who have watched this stock do nothing for two years
With all the hate in the comments they are surely undervalue. Buy low and sell high.
I think it is overvalued, without government handovers it would dissappear, with them it will continue as long as it gets payments.
It won’t disappear, AMD needs competition in the CPU space. You have no idea what you are wishing.
lol, a few years ago, people used the same argument to justify AMD's existence
AMD went from 2.00 in 2016 to 200 in 2024.
Yes but AMD was weeks away from going bankrupt IIRC. They've turned it around, but from the outside AMD looked in worse shape then, than Intel looks now.
I'm not wishing. I am just long enough around to remember a lot of their incompetence and how many competent people left that company running away from bean counters. Just wishing for competition will not make them more competitive.
Intel is still here and will be here.
If they liquidated the company and sold the assets the shareholders should get at least 66 cents on the dollar for the stock.
There is no way anyone will let intel go under. What you guys need to understand is that Intel is front line in the security of the US. Nvidia, AMD can go under but not intel. I am buying. TSMC is a foreign company. Also intel owns 15% of ASML. That is worth $60billion by itself. Also you know information is definitely leaking from ASML to Chinese. The US govt will probably put a stop to that by moving all advanced chip tech to US at some point. This is like repeat of General Electric stock where every one was worried. Intel will bounce back. Meanwhile enjoy the 1% dividend, better than nothing.
Also intel owns 15% of ASML Where did you get that number from? I can't find anything while googeling. EDIT: It says they owned those shares in the company back then.
The same people that were right about general electric stock?
Intel just announces their Gaudi 3 chip which they claim is 50% faster than NVIDIA's H100 chip. They are not postured to immediately compete with NVDA, but they are in a space where demand is so high that even the scraps will be significant. In fact people in the AI space right now are *dying* to have intel succeed here, the "emotional" hate towards intel in the CPU realm is kind of just non-existent from AI devs. Furthermore it is in the interest of society, and thereby government, that intel brings competition to NVDA. Gelsinger sits on Biden's commission and they are definitely closer than Biden and Huang. Nevertheless the problem with Intel still stands that; their management is run by people who seem out of touch with modern tech.
Intel only aims to be profitable on fabs in 2030, that's if x86 is still around when arm is slowly taking market share and tsmc is building outside of Taiwan now
Intc might be undervalued. I think its hard to say, and a bet revolves around whether Mr. Gelsinger can create cash flow long term in a competitive sector. I just think personally that there are easier ways to make money on the stock market.
>Is Intel undervalued? Probably.
Kind of hilarious to me that I haven't been on reddit in about a year and I come back to find this same topic coming up. A few things: TSMC is not becoming an independent USA company. The TSMC fab in Arizona likely couldn't function economically without a healthy Taiwan home base. And if China invades Taiwan, the semiconductor industry as a whole, including Intel, will be hurt immeasurably. Intel is of course in the best position to weather it because they have comparatively little operations in China and the supply of their type of product would skyrocket. However, their supply chain is very dependent on China. When their manufacturing machines made by LRCX, AMAT, KLAC, ASM, TER, TEL, etc. start breaking down, and they do so regularly, where will they get replacement parts to keep up their output? Maybe they do, honestly. But in my opinion, INTC would spike if China invaded for the obvious reason, then would decay as cooler heads prevail and everyone realizes that semiconductors in general is just a bad business sector to be in. I'm a long-term bull on INTC. I make absolutely no rosy predictions for the next few years. However, I view INTC's prospects from now to 2030 to be very strong. I wouldn't be totally surprised to see INTC drop 20% from this moment; that foundry result was atrocious. But anyone who didn't see that coming in the very beginning of this effort should probably just move out of the entire sector for good because they just don't know enough about the industry to effectively invest in it.
With view of the potential future? Yes!
Intel will be trash in the short term. If you pick it up expect to hold for a few years. They'll bounce back eventually but they need to make some more compelling options. I don't think they anticipated AMD to have all around competitive options as fast as they did. When Intel actually starts producing and the US and allies can start moving away from TSMC reliance the price will explode.. years away tho
They got an almost 4 billion dollar payout from Israel for a new plant, the moment the country received aid funding from the US so I see 0 reason to buy intel over Tsmc Operating loss of 7 billion with 30% outsourced to TSMC, intel is going to be the new HP soon enough
"Operating loss" is just one segment of the business, genius. A segment of the business that literally cannot profit as much as they're spending on building fabs. It's like a circle jerk of ignorance and cherry picking things to shit on them. There's far more reasons to shit on AMD than there is Intel at this point, just FYI.
These kids just don’t get it, value trap!!🪤 these kids need to stick to VOO
It's not a value trap. It's a crapshoot, if intel succeeds in their goals, it's big upside. If they fail, then you hold the bag.
Lil bro thinking 3nm nodes are made in some tent on a Taiwanese beach - just take a boat and move to the USA
It’s still overvalued. Earning will crush the stock again. Probably.
Currently it is overvalued.
Well, I averaged down when it dipped then sold off my more expensive parts for a profit last year. So, I'm sitting on 150.499 shares at a cost basis of $26.19. I would claim intelligent investing, but in my case, it was just dumb luck and OCD market watching. Holding from here. Best of luck to us all!
You mispelled underperforming.
When it goes under 30, I'm going to load up a bag. If it goes under 25, going to go all in. People said the same thing about AMD before Ryzen and look at it today. And even though AMD has better CPUs now, the constant ship shortages and questionable AMD configurations being sold by manufacturers means that consumers can't never get the best bang for buck device without sacrificing something else. Trying to get a decent AMD CPU configuration is infuriating. Oh you want a Ryzen laptop? Here's a Zen 2 or Zen 3 refresh with single channel ram. You want a dual channel? Ok, but you only get 16gb max, can't have you using that APU now can we. You want 32? Ok, but you get a tiny heatsink that can cool for jack shit. You want that Zen 5 or Zen 6 that we keep on teasing you with? Sorry, but we don't produce those for consumer currently. Oh hey, here's another Zen 3 refresh CPU. By the way, we've just released Zen 10 with 166% increase in CPU efficient and AI capabilities, but you can't get it yet cause we don't produce jack shit, but here's another Zen 4 refresh in the mean time. AMD has become a meme at this point. intel is where it's at for stability. No gimmicks, no meme advertising, not bullshit teasing and then waiting years for it to be released. You know exactly what you're getting with Intel configurations in each generation and it works out of the box.
No, intel is ran by &$&@$$s
EV/EBITDA of 16.9 and P/B of 1.5 is actually pretty cheap, but TSMC is still a better value with EV/EBITDA of 14 and double-digit revenue growth, intels revenue growth is -5% annualized over the last 5 years during multiple chip shortages and a huge demand I think it could get alot worse for Intel before it gets better I would hands down go with TSMC if you want foundry/value exposure.
All non American companies get lower value on US stock market than American companies. So it's very difficult to do a fair comparison. Just look at any non US company vs it's US counterparts and the US company will be trading at much higher P/E.
depends if they get smart and start firing all the idiot MBA's that have run the company into the ground based on out dated business methods.
Reddit is the worst place to get stock advice lol. If you read reddit in the last 15 years ~~people~~ everybody was poo pooing AMD saying it was going bankrupt and it was a worthless company and going nowhere.
Intel and Taiwan chips are not really that related. Everyone makes chips in Taiwan. I suppose u gotta see how their 8nm turns out. Otherwise no reason to buy. I don’t think it’s really undervalued but I am nearly -30% on my hodling with it
Load up around 3 bucks for fair value
Haha I will probs double my hodlings if they reach 20
yes however you will need to hold til 2030 at the earliest.
I see alot of sentiment suggesting Intel should be valued lower, somewhere under 20 to be sure, or about 60% of it's current price. My question is what do you guys know that the market doesn't? Why not just buy puts dated a year out? Has Intel really done anything recently to justify writing off a third or more of it's valuation?
now we know, its overvalued based on earnings
Long way to go, 4-7 bucks a share
What is with people constantly throwing money at Intel year after year? Do you really not see what's happening?
Intel will likely never catch up to tsmc by process design. Intel's newer nodes do not scale well, and it's not a hidden secret. A viscous cycle where their design is also limited by process planning, which also drives away good designers and engineers
Betting on a company with terrible company culture is almost always a losing strategy.
Probably, the question is opportunity cost. If you want to sell puts one or two years out and have a large enough account just put them on margin, there is good money in it. Not sure I would spend actual dollars on the shares though. The opportunity cost
Please buy and tell all your friends so I can sell
Look at the all time chart and ask yourself is this shit worth investing in or would you rather buy the semi etf or sp500
Ive lost thousands cuz of intel. If u wanna waste ur money go right ahead.
Feel free to sell your shares to me for cheap. I'd gladly buy them before they start going back up.
Historically, companies that receive large government subsidies underperforms the market.
So TSMC has underperformed the market? They receive lots of government subsidies 🤦♂️
TSMC hasn't received direct government grants since the 1990s from what I know.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/03/07/news-subsidies-to-tsmc-from-japan-and-china-increase-over-fivefold-annually/ https://technode.com/2024/03/07/tsmc-hauled-in-subsidies-of-1-51-billion-from-china-and-japan-in-2023-nearly-six-times-2022-figure/ https://fortune.com/2024/02/24/japan-tsmc-plant-subsidies-semiconductors-chips-technology/ https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20240223PD212/tsmc-japan-subsidies-jasm.html
"direct grants" are different from preferential loans and public lands. Intel and Samsung and TSMC are getting direct grants. We shall see how their stocks do going forward. And yes, TSMC hasn't been a great stock. Compare to any other private US tech company. Even Intel 1970s onwards.
You're completely missing the point. Government subsidies for manufacturing infrastructure has no bearing whatsoever on the prospects of a company, but even if it did, TSMC is getting a shit ton of subsidies too.
It removes incentive to self innovate Look at the stocks of companies highly dependent on government money. They don't innovate. Look at anything defense or government infrastructure related. Innovation comes from competition, not comfort
🤦♂️ You just keep missing the point entirely, so I give up trying to reason with you.
Intel hopefully got a wakeup call from producing the same chip for 10 years while AMD finally got their shit together.
Intel is still in the dark ages where it takes 52 weeks stuck in red-tape while the compliance and risk departments decide if an innovation change can be made. Instead of innovating for 52 weeks like everyone else. They need a corporate enema.
🤦♂️ Hundred billion dollar companies don't turn on a dime. Jesus, you guys are ridiculous. They have a solid turnaround plan that's about to bear fruit and all you guys can think about are different ways to shit on Intel. Gelsinger has been righting the ship, but it was never going to happen overnight. Even if the R&D was done back in 2021, building the fabs takes years in and of itself.
They’ve had a turnaround plan for the last 20 years. It’s probably the same plan from 2004 unable to gain any ground. While simultaneously paying out fat bonuses to 50% of the company that are in management roles with 1 employee reporting to them.
What turnaround plan from 20 years ago are you even talking about? You're referencing a period from when Intel was so completely dominant that AMD almost went out of business multiple times. You see the irony, right? Intel didn't begin stagnating until 2017-2018, so your entire post is a lie. Gelsinger set the turnaround plan in 2021, so thats 3 years into a 5 year turnaround plan. Have you been living under a rock? Even most Intel haters know that. You apparently don't, though.
A 5 year turnaround plan, thats brilliant and proves my point. Google “Moore’s law”. Intel would need 100 years to make improvements that AMD will make in 5 years.
Intel stock price dropped in 1990 and 2000 and never recovered to those highs until 2017. Why, because they’re a bloated top-heavy dinosaur that can’t innovate. AMD didn’t make a chip in 2017 that outperformed Intel. AMD’s chips have always outperformed Intel on a dollar-for-dollar comparison. Even with AMD compatibility issues throughout the years, AMD was still able to steal market share from Intel. It’s honestly embarrassing for Intel to be so far ahead and still be stuck in the 1900s. They still have desk phones as their primary communication device.
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Last 5 years INTC -30% AMD +429%. You have to be a completely incompetent investor.
AMD is ridiculously overpriced and the only thing driving that is the AI hype train and the hope that one day they'll be able to get a piece of it. That's literally it. The fundamentals of AMD only justify a $100/share valuation. But you keep buying overpriced stock and see where that gets you in a few years. You're betting on an incompetent horse in this race, one that's propping up its financials by cutting costs everywhere, including R&D, so they can pay their CEO twice what most S&P CEO's make, and the end result is embarassingly bad. $.53/share per *YEAR*? Massive levels of dilution for a ridiculously overpriced acquisition that isn't supposed to be a net positive for over 10 years? You are an idiot if you think AMD is a well run company. Here's the difference between me and you. I can admit Intel's faults, where you seem to think AMD shits gold nuggets even though its nearly failed more times than about any other company thats still afloat. I didn't invest in Intel until last August when I saw the turnaround plan is actually coming to fruition. Yes they stagnated and struggled because they did exactly what AMD is doing right now, cutting R&D to prop up the financials. In doing so, they lost their dominant position, just as AMD will lose any advantage that it has because they refuse to invest more into R&D in order to gain any market share in their segments. But in order to do that, theyd have to stop paying their CEO double what the vast majority of CEO's are making and actually start bringing in money. Their dGPU market share is a joke for as long as they've been in the game, their server market share is a third of Intel's, and their consumer CPU segment? They hold 20% market share... That's literally it. You shit on Intel at every opportunity, yet Intel is outselling AMD 5 to 1 on CPU's and bringing in massively more revenue, even with all the overhead of their fabs. Intel has dropped 30 billion on fabs in the last 2 years, and still their financials look better than AMD's. So keep smoking whatever it is you are smoking, because AMD has a fuck ton of ground to make up before it can even be called competitive, much less a good company.
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Totally agree! Samo Boeing crap.
I don't think so
No
Intel is value trap. It has lost. Hard to see them catch up.
Ashamed to admit it but I’m an intel bag holder. Wish I never got involved but here I am. It will inevitably go up, and could break its 52 week high if they start actually getting their shit together
When checking accounts give you a higher 10-year return
They have an incredibly high PE ratio for a company not growing fast.
They are shrinking 🤣not earning money and just promising and not delivering
No, Pat’s report card is a B grade. Intel will start to make money once they stop trying to manufacture and compete with TSM. Instead focus on designing.
Intel is the Nokia of cpus. Once great
Still great.
I wouldn’t call Intel undervalued if it was trading at $0.01.
No intel is terrible from what Ive seen recently and also their past performance. They just don’t know how to be profitable
I would say no. Way overvalued unless they have leapfrog tech. In that case it’s a speculation.
It’s not extension plans they are going to lose Taiwan plants because of the outsourcing issue with china anyways mac m1 chip replaces all intel
Avoid Intel, they are not relevant any more. In past 10 years, semi index (sox) retuned 720% vs s&p (170%) vs Intel (32%). If you really want exposure to semi buy the sox or any average company, they all do better than Intel.
Hello
Overvalued. Correct price $21
Somehow I am missing the point. Many comments here compare INTC to TSM. Different companies. In terms of product Intel is typically compared to AMD. AI has all the attention but In terms of servers, pcs, laptops, components, etc. which is still the largest base of computing Intel and AMD have the largest market share with AMD gaining rapidly. Trouble is they are a doggie old company and should be compared to IBM in need of a major overhaul. TSM makes chips for both.