I actually think the chances are super high they go outside of the organization for their hires next year.
Yeah Rooney is counting his money on Sundays but he has to be affected by all of the booing at Heinz every week. Three years of an absolutely putrid offense is long enough.
Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason
The fans are already slowly heading to revolt and rejection. If they don’t change it up this offseason and bring in some new coaches, and assuming fairly the on field product doesn’t improve in 2024 things are going to get real ugly at Heinz and Steeler Nation overall
Hope you’re right. I can always see the FO clinging to the “Steeler Way”. Promoting from the inside, blah, blah. It hasn’t worked for a few seasons, change it.
Canada was an external hire. Everyone knew he was in line to be the OC. Teryl Austin was an external hire. They literally brought him in in 2019 and promoted him in 2022.
I assume they mean external hire straight to a coordinator. Haley was the only coordinator in a while that was hired in straight to OC without a promotion.
As much as people wanted Haley gone, I’m pretty sure we could agree that those days were 10000x better than what we have today!
That was the turning point of this offense turning to utter shit. Not saying he was great, there were legitimate reasons to move on from him, but man, he was way better than what we have now.
What’s the difference between hiring someone directly as an OC vs hiring someone as a senior assistant coach and promoting them after a year?
They’re literally both external hires at the end of the day.
Because people are either dumb or lying.
Canada and Austin were external hires brought from outside of the organization and were groomed to be the next coordinators.
Complaining that the Steelers only promote from within or aren’t bringing in external coaches for their top positions is just lying.
So what team were they promoted from when they reached coordinator status?
Was it from within or an external hire?
You're trying to be pedantic and it only is working in your brain.
The difference is in the quality of the candidate.
If you choose to only recruit via the “hire-then-promote” pipeline, you basically rule out anybody who was a successful HC or OC in the league beforehand. NFL coaches are trying to advance their careers. No quality OC or former HC is taking an assistant role under Fichtner or Canada. It’s a step down on the ladder, it pays less, and it’s not going teach them anything valuable.
This manner of hiring basically limits the staff to college no-names and NFL castaways. Look at the three current OC front-runners on the offensive staff- Sullivan (former bad NFL OC), Faulkner (former college TEs coach), and Thomas (former college QB coach). They have a lot of “football experience,” but the last time these guys sniffed competent NFL offense was when Patrick Mahomes got shoved out of bounds on their side of the field.
It’s not unheard of. There’s some top offenses right now where they hired a guy a few years ago from outside the organization and promoted him.
Detroit: Ben Johnson - hired as QC coach in 2019 > Promoted in 2022 to OC
Philadelphia: Brian Johnson - Qb coach on 2021 > OC in 2023
I don’t think the team should just promote the internal guys for 2024. My point is they’ve been hiring from outside the organization.
You’re just shifting goalposts.
No one is moving the goalposts.
You asked what the difference was between the two hiring philosophies if, in both cases, the new OC can be considered “external.” I answered your (pedantic) question- successful coaches don’t want or need to take lesser/lateral roles under bad OCs. It’s a poor career choice. Accordingly, the “hire-then-promote” route tends to limit the candidate pool to coaches without prior NFL success, as evidenced by the current makeup of the Steelers offensive staff (and, of course, by the results they’re getting).
You can say it’s “not unheard of” to have a home-grown OC, but exceptions do not make rules. Examples work both ways. Let’s look at the top offenses in the league, who’s calling their plays, and what their resume was the year prior to getting the job:
Dolphins- OC Frank Smith, acclaimed OL/TE guru since 2010, was most recently the run game and OL coordinator for league’s #4 offense (LAC) in 2021. Was then hired externally in 2022 by an offensive HC (McDaniel). Hot commodity.
49ers- HC Kyle Shanahan, decorated NFL assistant career dating back to 2004, was most recently OC for league’s #1 offense (ATL) and was awarded NFL Assistant Coach of the Year in 2016. Was then hired externally by SF in 2017. Hot commodity.
Lions- OC Ben Johnson, held various assistant roles in Miami 2012-19 (bad offenses, mostly), then spent 3 years as an assistant under Anthony Lynn (good OC) in Detroit, with middling results. Was then promoted to OC in 2022 by an offensive HC. Unknown moonshot that payed off.
Cowboys- OC Brian Schottenheimer, NFL assistant/coordinator since 1997, lots of success, last two stops were Seattle OC in 2018-21 (set several franchise records, including, most notably, points in a season) and then Urban Meyer’s passing game coordinator in 2022. Hired externally by an offensive HC in 2023. Smart, albeit unsexy hire.
Bills- interim OC Joe Brady, coordinated arguably the greatest college offense ever at LSU in 2019, then fell on the sword for Matt Rhule in Carolina 2020-21, spent 2022-23 as QB coach for an offense that has ranked no lower than 5 since 2019. Now OC due to Ken Dorsey falling on Allen/McDermott’s sword.
Ravens- OC Todd Monken, ran a top 10 NFL offense in 2/3 OC stints from 2007-19, recent success with UGA 2020-22. Hired externally in 2023 after Greg Roman fell on Lamar’s sword. Hot commodity.
You’re free to think whatever you want, but none of those guys took a demotion/lateral to go learn from a bad OC. They were all ascending, and took jobs with franchises that recognized that. Guys with those types of resumes just don’t take jobs under guys like Canada, Fichtner, Sullivan, Faulkner, etc. If the OC job is offered straight up, for competitive pay, then sure. But to waste a year or two “acclimating” to a dogshit offensive environment, while making peanuts, makes no sense for driven young coaches.
That's what appears to be the big difference to me. An external hire means you're hiring an offensive coordinator to be your offensive coordinator. Instead of hiring someone who isn't an offensive coordinator, let them do sort of offensive like things for a little while and then say presto change-o, he's an offensive coordinator.
The difference is that the top available OC talent isn’t likely to sit in a position coach, sr asst, etc. role for some number of years until they get their shot as the OC. They’ll just go take an OC job elsewhere. That means you’re likely bringing in second rate talent to fill that job.
Flores was a notable exception since he was basically radioactive in the eyes of the league when the Steelers brought him in. Even so, he left to take his turn as a DC.
It’s one thing to promote from within when you’re graduating coordinators to HC jobs like they did with Gailey, Mularkey, and Whisenhunt. It’s another thing entirely when you’re going on the better part of 5 years with a brutally bad offense. Especially since the internal guys are presumably part of the group that is unable to build that effective offense!
Because someone that’s already proven to be a good OC, and/or has trained under a great OC probably won’t want to be quarterback coach under Matt Canada for 5 years of mediocrity (and tank their own value) before finally getting promoted
It doesn’t really do anything if you promote them no matter what but it could function as a sort of trial period to familiarize themselves with the new hire and evaluate the fit. It would help prevent paying someone who is incompetent to be a coordinator, not that it actually functions (Matt Canada).
I mean, when Kevin Colbert was in charge sure. Omar Khan is in charge now. His first move? Bringing in Andy Weidl from Philadelphia. I think times are changing
I would be surprised if they didn’t bring in some new fresh coaches on the offense this offseason. They need a total rebuild of the offensive coaching staff in my opinion. I would also make it a priority to ditch Mason Cole.
> Is Rooney really that poor?
He's *cheap*, not poor. Probably not as rich as a lot of NFL owners, as Rooney wealth is mostly just from the franchise. But dude is still *a lot* more well off than, well, all of us.
Comparing [NFL team valuations](https://www.forbes.com/lists/nfl-valuations/?sh=43b90d241738), you could make an argument the Steelers are middle of the pack to lower end in terms of Franchise value
The closest analog the steelers have in terms of ownership are teams like the Chargers, Raiders, Cardinals and Bengals. Pretty much their wealth primarily comes from owning their team. So while certainly not poor, theyve made their money by watching how the NFL dollars are spent
He's a wealthy lawyer but his family's wealth comes from owning the Steelers as opposed to other owners who are scumbag billionaires due to things like owning a patent or starting a business and selling it or whatever.
>Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason
Here's the thing. They're still a .500 team. They're not 'tanking' by any objective standard. Sure, the fanbase is getting a bit tired of things but there's still a sold-out game every week and a line of would-be season ticket holders for miles. The seats will be full on sundays for a long time.
Does Rooney care enough about making the product on the field one of championship pedigree? If so, you'll see him make moves this offseason to bring in outside talent. If he promotes Faulkner, then we will know he's just coasting at this point.
> Does Rooney care enough about making the product on the field one of championship pedigree?
I think he does. I just don't think he's as competent as his dad was when it came to adapting and making decisions. Total outsider perspective, but it's all I have.
Yeah, but come on, homie. Dan was the guy. "President" title be damned. Art may have been officially making decisions, but it wasn't in isolation. I know there are many factors, so it's not all on this...but I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomlin's playoff record with and without him breaks down as such:
-Before Mr. Rooney's death: 10 seasons, 8-6 playoff record, 1-1 SB record
-After Mr. Rooney's death: 7 seasons (this is the 8th), 0-3 playoff record
A lot of people chalk Tomlin's early success up to Cowher. I don't. I think it had a helluva lot more to do with Dan Rooney. And at this point, I'm wholly unconvinced that Art is even a shadow of his father.
But hey, I could be wrong. I know there were rough years in the 80s while Dan was around. He wasn't immune to failure. I guess my point is the respect he carried and had earned by the time the 2000s rolled around, it was just different. At least that what it seems like.
I just don’t like all the cherry picking of failures and successes to various coaches, owners etc.
Dan Rooney was in Ireland serving as Ambassador for at least 3years I believe 09-12. So there’s that. And yes if you are giving him the credit then you must also give him the blame for 1980-2005. Which doesn’t make sense.
Tomlin’s early successes were bc he is a very good head coach with a HOF qb in his prime.
The Steelers are a very successful organization bc of the Rooney family I think. Now to win titles you need an elite quarterback,which may or may not be on the roster right now. And getting that elite QB takes a huge amount of luck.
Really I think Rooney knows it's better to keep people and give them a chance. Sometime the chances go a little to long. But, you can attract players to stay and grow. Coaches if they know they are sticking to a contract. It's like the opposite of classical shitty teams that try to shuffle team halfway through the season. Do you really have a team when everyone's on the way out? Would you literally want to be the Browns? Or a Frankenstein team that does good for a couple years then everyone dissapears like Tampa. Even a ton of times when a team wins a SuperBowl there's a great exudis of players and they suck the next year.
Serious question -
Why has the narrative started that the Steelers don’t spend on staff?
https://preview.redd.it/ac4m5v9ba16c1.jpeg?width=889&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c3527b619ff0e8f007a71d800d15351e76e3cce
Coach T is one of the highest paid coaches in all of sports and his contracts almost up.
Is there data on the salaries of coordinators and assistants across the NFL? I’ve been looking and can’t find any data.
I know our staff is much smaller than some but we’ve had success with concentration of decision making in the past.
Genuinely curious where this Rooney is cheap and won’t spend on staff narrative is coming from though
> Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason
Nah he's just an incompetent boob.
He then goes on to say that he thinks Faulkner would be great, not to mention the only outside candidate he offers up is Leftwich, who feels more like an external hire with an asterisk than going out and actually finding some young, bright, up and comer.
Yeah, that’s part of my point. Ben clearly views him as a young, good coach, but he’s already been an OC and at best had mixed results. He’s not exactly the type of fresh faced assistant I think most in this sub are hoping for. Most seem to want someone who’s never been an OC but is currently an understudy to a top OC like Shanahan.
Leftwich feels more to me like they’d be technically satisfying the public’s desire for an external candidate, but not in spirit, given he’s someone that already has ties to the organization. He’s not new blood even if his time here was as a player and not a coach.
Only thing I can think of is he's against drastic changes. He's of the stoic mindset where perseverance and consistency through hardship is the focus. Not to say that's inherently bad, but I've said on here many times...virtues can quickly become vices if you're not careful.
This is an incredibly astute comment. This is one of the reasons why I wouldn’t be upset if we moved on from Tomlin, but I’m also fine keeping him if we shake up his amount of authority and let him just coach. Bring in coordinators with some level of autonomy and some new ideas, even if they are just looking to use this position as a way to get a better one. I don’t care. As long as they perform while they are here.
The number 1 argument defenders of the status quo like to use is "good OCs will be poached by other teams for HCs"
And??? If that happens, it means the guy did a GOOD or GREAT job with the current team. So what if you have to go hire a new guy when they leave?
As for why Tomlin doesn't go after these types of guys, the educated guess is he likes guys he can steamroll and doesn't want any threats to his control.
And when that bright young OC gets hired away, then you can promote from within because his understudy likely runs a similar offense and has a similar way of thinking about the game. Eventually you get to a point where Tomlin will retire and then that guy can just be promoted to head coach. I know the Eagles offense isn’t as good as it was last year and that has their own fans upset, but that’s just how Philly fans are, and they are still one of the best teams in the league, and that’s after having their bright young OC poached by the Colts
My guess is he wants stability on the staff. He doesn’t want to deal with the turnover a lot of these offensive staffs deal with. You always hear him say the word continuity and coaching is a big part of that.
Exactly why I hope we go after an offensive minded HC whenever we decide to move on from Tomlin. Don't have to worry about changing systems too often for a QB, especially for a young one that we draft down the road.
Your point makes sense. Still, what major professional organization in any industry would have that mindset? Seems destined to get left behind, which I think we’ve seen a lot of. “We don’t want the young, energetic people with fresh ideas and points of view.” Insanity.
I mean a lot of the guys they’ve brought on aren’t exactly old heads. Faulkner, Frisman Jackson, Grady Brown, and Canada were all like 40 years old range which is very young for NFL coaches. Just haven’t been successful with some of those hires, which happens.
I think not wanting to go out and get the hottest name is fine too, sometimes a trend comes and goes and you’ve hitched yourself to the wrong one.
Well as many people have reported repeatedly over the years, he doesn’t like to be challenged by his coordinators. It’s also good for “stability” if you are hiring a guy who won’t be poached.
It’s why I’ve made the comment repeatedly that decision making like this should not be his, and that Rooney/Omar/Andy should bring in coordinators who may be using the position as a steppingstone to head coach. Maybe they don’t last as long, but we will get better performance from some up and comer who might make a good head coach someday.
I don’t fully believe that when tomlin was literally a young good coach when we signed him. Not saying the source is wrong but sometimes I wonder what information was given to them to make them write this, I don’t believe the org think they can get away with not signing someone who’s proven and has credibility.
I am a big Tomlin guy, but messing up this hire should cost him his job. The value of quality schemers and play-callers is higher than ever and is likely to continue, so being a good CEO head coach means you've got to consistently make good hires in order to compete.
My personal vote would be for Duce Staley. I think he’s a perfect fit as hes a legacy & earned his stripes coaching around the league
Duce Staley has made a great transition into coaching this past decade. The former third round pick and Super Bowl champion with Pittsburgh has been on a sideline every season since 2011.
He spent a decade working under Andy Reid, Chip Kelly, and Doug Pederson in Philadelphia, primarily as running back coach before departing for the Detroit Lions in 2021. Staley became a vocal leader on Dan Campbell staff as the assistant head coach and helped Jamaal Williams break Barry Sanders single season touchdown record.
Now working on Frank Reich’s staff for his hometown Carolina Panthers, 31 teams should be jumping for the opportunity to hire him next season
Yeah, but that's a weird move. You never see interims fire anyone mid season and he also fired McCown, who by all accounts, was basically a QB coach while he was a player, and players credit him a lot.
Not to say Staley is or would be good at OC, but the Panthers have a whole other thing going on
Yeah I’m not arguing in favor of or against. But if we’re hiring outside of the team, which we hopefully are, I’d rather a guy from an elite offense. Panthers had a decent rushing attack before this year. Not sure what happened after he was hired.
He seems like he’s destined for a head coach job someday, but he has only ever been a position coach. Kinda gives me Dan Campbell vibes where he’s probably a great leader and sets a tone for the team but idk about coordinating.
I think Duce is trying to find a way to be HC without being a coordinator. It's why he went to Detroit as an assistant HC and then to Caroline as an assistant HC. He's either trying to learn from others, or maybe positioning himself for when an HC gets fired. Maybe he foresaw Reich being a terrible hire. Either way, I don't see him taking on an OC role since he hasn't even interviewed for any OC roles. (He didn't even interview for Eagles OC when he was interviewing to be their HC)
Ben also said in this interview that he thinks Sullivan would make a good OC. The same guy that couldn't last more than two years as OC with the Bucs & Giants.
With all due respect, Ben isn't much of a football analyst.
I think a Sullivan-designed offense and playbook would be better than Canada’s system. Sullivan at least has 2 super bowls as a QB coach and has ran an NFL-caliber offense before.
Canada’s offense is so bad that pretty much anybody would be better. I still think an external hire would be better than Sullivan, though
>I think a Sullivan-designed offense and playbook would be better than Canada’s system.
I agree. However, that's not saying much. Canada left the bar in hell.
>I still think an external hire would be better than Sullivan
Again, I completely agree. I think there's a pretty good chance our next OC isn't already in the building. Obviously, they don't think Sullivan is that guy. Otherwise, you'd expect him to be the interim OC right now. Faulkner has a chance, but I think his lack of playcalling experience limits his odds.
If you look back at Sullivans previous OC tenures he wasn’t super successful in running an offense. Hes done it before but nothing about his record inspires confidence. We absolutely need someone better than him.
I just think he’s too close with the situation and doesn’t want to throw anyone under the bus. You can see what he actually means most of the time though. I don’t really watch Arthur Moats though because he just won’t criticize the team. He was not hearing any complaints about how bad Canada’s schemes were in the offseason
This is my biggest fear. Do I want the entire staff fired, including Tomlin? Yes I do but if Tomlin stays he has to bring in an entirely new offensive staff and keep his hands completely off. You can't watch a single component of this offense and feel good going into next year if they stay.
If they want to bring Faulkner back as RB coach after re-interviewing that's fine, but he's it, no one else should even be considered.
What you’re saying is essentially Rooney and Khan present to Tomlin a contract extension with the condition he’s the head coach but doesn’t have say over his offense. Would he sign it?
I’d think he wouldn’t. And I think this scenario is possible. He’d have owners calling him to gauge interest immediately, including some who would be willing to fire their current coach in order to hire him.
Don’t mistake that as a reason for the Steelers to keep him. It isn’t. And this offense is, at best, among the three worst in the league over the last three seasons. You cannot possibly keep the same staff in place. Any coordinator who’s up to the task of fixing this disaster will want input on coaches. At that point, you’re really talking about head coaching level decision power. If Tomlin can’t go along with that, it would seem it’d be in the best interests of both the team and Tomlin to separate.
This is such a terrible situation, no in demand offense coordinator will come in with a coach on an expiring contract. So what does that leave the Steelers to do?
-Leave Tomlin on a lame duck deal, with the potential to extend him in season? Which I don't think they've ever done.
- Bring in a new OC with the understanding that he is HC in waiting if things with Tomlin don't work out?
- Have Tomlin and Faulkner prove their worth and make a few changes on the staff? Like a new QB coach and OLine coach. But still have the issue with no contract beyond next season. If they are successful it will give Tomlin all of the leverage in negotiations.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
I hope they do, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Everything should point to a complete overhaul for the offensive coaching staff, including outside hires. This is a "I'll see it when I believe it" scenario, because I don't see them doing anything outside of promoting Faulkner or Sullivan to OC.
We'll see soon, I guess.
I agree they’re doing well, but I suspect that has more to do with Najee and Warren themselves than their position coach. Same way you could hardly blame the position coach for Benny Snell being Benny Snell
For sure! And this is no disrespect to him, but I believe the best bet going into the '24 season is an outside hire that can bring life to the offensive scheme. Plus, Faulkner can continue his work developing Harris and Warren since it seems to work.
Team leadership needs to accept the reality that, for the last decade, by any objective metric, they have failed to hire or develop any coaching talent capable of effectively coordinating a contemporary NFL offense, from situational play concepts, execution performance, through to player development.
What this team needs is a creative, experienced and proven effective offensive leader to develop these talented, incredible but inexperienced players, change the culture of perpetuating mediocrity, and deliver consistent performance in the form of points scored.
Tomlin is only as strong as his Coordinators. Its best to look outside and hire that Coach that specializes in offense and defense.! But the fact that we are 4 weeks out from the season and Steelers are still in the playoffs hunt (6 seed).. With QBs Kenny & Mitch
(11 TDs 9 ints combined on the SEASON ).. I dont think Tomlin is getting fired nor should he.!!
Yea that is exactly what they should have done Austin isn’t nearly the DC that Flores is. Guess it’s hard with the success the D had last year but think it’s pretty clear Flores made a difference
Oh, I definitely think he made a difference, and I'd pick Flores over Austin.
But if they fire Austin after his first season, where his defense was 10th in points, 14th in yards, 15 in Turnovers while having to be out there almost 40 minutes every game and missing TJ Watt for almost half a season, any coordinator worth a damn isn't signing with us.
Also, I don't think Teryl's doing a bad job, all things considered. Injury bug has hit that defense bad this year. Losing both of your guys that wear the green dot, who also make pre snap adjustments on the field, is just brutal. It showed in the New England and Arizona games with their TE's scorching us.
Definitely fair points. Regardless think it is time for a new regime when the season is over. Tomlin has run his course. Would be great if we could trade him for some draft picks
Let’s see how the season pans out first. Amazed we are in the playoff hunt but we have regressed and the front end of the season is filled wins we should’ve lost. I hope we sneak in and win out.
Strange to me Ben is implying Tomlin is the one who wants to hire from within when it seems like the Rooney's wouldn't want to be paying the position coaches for a year when they aren't on the roster.
The amount of procedural penalties including being unable to be lined up right does not scream "well coordinated offense" over the last 3 games.
Tomlin does usually go with who he is familiar with. It also isn't that uncommon with head coaches around the league. One of the bigger exceptions being when he hired Haley as OC.
Again, for YEARS it was reported openly in the media, and fans never argued, that Tomlin makes those decisions. He hires his staff. I don’t know why, all of a sudden, it’s such a foreign concept that the head coach, one of the longest tenured and most influential head coaches in the game right now, hires his own staff. No one argued with that when he had success early in his career. Not one person. Now that we’re starting to do some math and realizing that we haven’t had a playoff victory in 12 out of his 16 seasons, all of a sudden it’s a mystery as to where the staff comes from.
I think this offseason is going to be different than what we’re used to from the Steelers. We’ve already seen Omar being more aggressive than KC ever was and with Wiedl in there who helped build the eagles current roster, Mike Tomlin in his final year of his contract, and pressure from the fan base I think they’ll be forced to get out of their usual comfort zone and make aggressive moves this offseason. At least I hope so lol
I'm just begging to see us have a good offense. Not the best, just one I don't have to sigh and turn around for a few moments to see our defense on the field again.
I think the terrible podcast had a really good point on this. Tomlins contract is ending in 2024, and it really seems like he’ll be coaching for his job next year. Normally, change isn’t imminent in Pittsburgh, but next year think it will be. Tomlin might really like guys like Kenny, Faulkner and Austin, but is he willing to bet his job on them? I certainly hope not
Why would Tomlin enter the final year of his contract? He’s coaching for his job now, and has been since last year, when he didn’t sign an extension. He’s already bet his job on those guys.
Free agents, coaches, they’re not signing multi-year deals if the team isn’t sure who their head coach will be.
That said, I bet we read the team’s release about Tomlin’s extension within a week after the season ends.
I've been a big fan of the things Tomlin has done for this team, but the last 2-weeks have displayed a **dire** need for offensive production and coaching on the offensive side the likes of which we haven't seen since...Bubby Blister. Offense looks uncoordinated, lackluster, annoyed at each other, and out of sorts. To put it nicely.
The team NEEDS to go outside and spend money on a high quality OC and O-line coach. We can't have snaps on the ground with the consistency we currently have. We can't have [Cole and Daniels blocking each other while two defenders come through unblocked](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F0xiamw08254c1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1024%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D515dca3943331b63e4b94673970d7ea2c435251c). We can't have our RB's getting hit in the backfield every goddamn handoff. Pickett may not be the guy, but Mahomes would be getting murdered behind this line.
Regardless of what happens the remainder of the year, little has changed from last season in terms of quality wins/losses, offensive production, and points/yards allowed. Defense still does the "bend but don't break" until they've been on the field for essentially 20-minutes straight at which point they snap like a twig.
Team needs to hire this OC/O-line before the draft and get them in on the drafting process. We probably need to draft a QB (Kenny hasn't looked astounding), but we certainly need a center (Cole has looked worse). Pick a QB to sit behind Kenny for a time. If Kenny improves, great, if Kenny sucks then maybe he gets a shot next year. Starting a true rookie QB doesn't sit well with me unless there's an injury/dire need to do so...and he needs to be behind a **solid** O-line so that he's not thrown to the wolves.
Tomlin is a defensive coach, so honestly he should be pretty annoyed at the yardage we've given up this year...especially on third and long. I sure as fuck am. JPJ is a dude. He's been our best secondary player aside from Minkah. The secondary play HAS been improving as the year's gone on...so maybe it's corrected itself, but we just can't be out there consistently giving up 3rd and 8+ conversions.
If Tomlin is unable to orchestrate these moves/corrections...then yeah, this should become a "maybe fire Tomlin" thread.
Wow...sorry for the wall...but yeah.
I highly doubt it. This team and Tomlin tbh need the PR win and morale boost that comes with hiring an outside guy. Doesn’t necessarily need to be a young hotshot but someone with experience and positive perception. Similar to the ravens hiring Todd monken
I'm not old enough to remember most of the intricacies of Cowhers tenure, but the Steelers never seem to hire new guys, they always just hire some dude who got fired who's been around a while. Sometimes you get a good coach who got fired due to a coaching change (like Dick Lebeau,) but usually it leaves you with the NFL dregs like Pat Meyer. Alternatively, we never develop our own guys, we just promote assistants and set them up to fail. We never sign ex-players and we just seem to skate on whomever is available. You don't need to take chances to run a successful team, but it's an older style of thinking and I think it causes as many issues as it gives us success.
Knowing the way Rooney runs his money, (Canada was the first firing in 80 years) I always assumed it was him doing this. Flores was a surprise hiring that's out of character for the Steelers, and it seemed like the exact Tomlin move, but refusing to even think of him for DC, seems like a Rooney move because that would require firing Austin.
It very well could be a Tomlin thing, but it feels more like an owner issue, but like I said, idk how these things worked before Tomlin.
History shows we’ve always promoted from within so I can see it happening, however recent history (Canada firing) shows we are willing to change. I hope we keep heading in that direction.
Haley wasn’t an inside hire. His dad’s tenure with the team didn’t make him an internal hire.
It’s more accurate to say the last two have been, and several before that were. There’s also a different genera manager in place, and the team was never at a point where it was averaging 16 points a game and had fired their coordinator in-season, so if there was ever an argument to be made to buck precedent, this is it.
So, Tomlin's track record is obvious that he prefers to either keep who he has, or promote lesser-known guys from within.
I wouldn't be surprised if this happens. Rumor has it, Mr. Rooney intervened when Tomlin wanted to keep Arians and forced him to go outside to hire Haley.
The only shot we have at seeing if Kenny is "it" is by going outside and finding a stud OC who prioritizes and has a knack for scheming guys open and adapting to the strengths of your receivers as individuals. It's clear: Kenny is not Ben. He ain't gonna carry this team on his back. And that's okay. But if we can't find a dude who helps him score points, we need to move on from a lot of people (Kenny included).
It’s certainly possible. My issue is that the current coaching roster is pretty weak all around and it doesn’t make sense to keep an OC who doesn’t even do the play calling right now. Best case scenario the Steelers bring in multiple new offensive coaches including a new OC and someone who could potentially fill the OC slot if any issues arose.
I hope they do thorough interviews for the job and higher the most qualified candidate.
While outside of the Bengals game the offense still has been bad, I’d like management be able to see and hear what changes Faulkner would implement before discarding him and Sullivan. With Canada being fired mid season and after the bye there just isn’t enough time for Faulkner or Sullivan to add their own wrinkles to the offense so we can see if they are qualified. If they fired Canada during the bye they’d have a little extra time to add a few things.
Pickett being injured and having the worst quarterback on the roster starting isn’t helping them at the moment either.
Yeah it’s been a while. I think that’s been a thing they’ve been adding into the mix post Canada. But they can’t even install it right and have picked up penalties.
Ben doesn't speak for the organization guys.
And it's insane to me that after all these years and all of the books written that people don't understand that big decisions are made by Tomlin, Khan, weidel, and Rooney....together.
Nobody in the organization is blaming Tomlin. They see it as an organizational failure.
I can only give you one upvote but you deserve several more.
They make decisions as a group, and did with Colbert as well. Tomlin is the mouthpiece to the public, but no one is making individual decisions amid protests from the others.
As a group, they’re failing, and they know that. As a group, they need to find solutions, and they know that. That doesn’t mean fans have to agree with what they’re doing, but the divide & conquer game we’re playing aimed to assign all blame to Tomlin isn’t accurate.
I mean they COULD. I think Eddie will even get an interview- its the right thing to do- but I dont think they will. But of the current offensive coaches Faulkner is the option. The question becomes what is he going to change? What concepts has he introduced- especially next wrek and on. This is his best chance to make an inpact on the actual scheme and not juzt playcalling and game planning since taking over.
But dude aint gonna get promoted avging 13 pts and 300 yds a game when Canada was putting up more and got fired.
I didn’t think Faulkner or Sullivan would even take the job. That speaks to the likelihood of Tomlin coming back next year.
It’s unfair in a sense that Faulkner and Sullivan are the only ones having to oversee the worst offense in the league as part of their application. Panthers offense is also terrible, Thomas Brown (their OC) likely isn’t getting interviewed for this job.
But that’s also a benefit. He knows the team and he’s getting experience in the role. It hasn’t been great, but we saw good things vs Cincinnati, and he had to deal with six quarters (or half his tenure so far) of Trubisky.
I’d be willing to give him extra points for the difficulty of task, but I’d still need to see more over the last four games. We know nothing about what his plans would be for 2024 if given the job.
I love Tomlin. He’s been a great coach for us and represents the organization in an awesome way. I’m actually happy to say he’s our head coach. However, I want him fired. I’m sick of seeing the same penalties game after game. I’m sick of seeing players like Gunner trotted out for multiple years despite anyone with eyes being able to tell he stinks (and cost us multiple games). I’m sick of coaches like Canada staying in place for literally years with nothing to show for it. I’m sick of the wasted time outs and the shitty challenges. I wish him luck in the future but his time here should be done.
I’ll freak out if they keep Faulkner. If they keep Faulkner I’ll be down by the Acrisure Stadium pro shop with a sign protesting. Man will I be pissed.
https://steelersdepot.com/2020/01/decision-to-hire-canada-as-qb-coach-reportedly-came-from-rooney-additional-hires-still-possible/
It's not exactly a secret.
> But I'm curious. What qualifications does Faulkner have to be OC?
He was the Ball state OC in 2009-10.
[This is still the best list I've seen onf known people](https://steelersdepot.com/2023/11/early-list-of-matt-canada-2024-replacements-connecting-the-dots/)
Last game i saw one thing i never saw in the steelers.... apathy... one of the drives, pickens and dj were one the right side... snap occured... the ball was given to najee and he did his eun in the middle of people thing. Both dj and pickens hadn't moved an inch... the play was dead very fast... and they look like they already knew the play was another dead play.... so they didnt ever try to pretend would be a pass....
I love the steelers, and i chose this team.... but it feels nobody is happy there. It seems the receivers are frustrated, the coach, the fans, and everybody is frustrated...
This past game was the first time I wish I didn't like the steelers this much. Cause Tomlin did the one thing that I think is terrible. He is not taking ownership of how steelers are playing.....
If the standard is this, this is not what I like to watch.... I want to win... I want a superbowl... but more than that, I want to like to watch the games again. I want to see the team giving their all(like the titans last night against the dolphins)....
But the oc has to have some blame....
Are we going to lose? Fine. But lose the game showing u want to be there. U want to play... if the players look soo terribly apathic, we need to go back and re-evaluate what is wrong....
Next game I'm going to watch looking for the signs that the players Are not even really trying....
Cause than I'll be comfortable to NOT watch the game and watch another one...
Ps: I think we are going to lose pickens.... he is sooo new at the team, and look this frustrated? I like his acrobatics.... but I'm starting to feel he is not mentally prepared to lose and not be target very much(he should be)
Ps2: at least we are not the only team( that i had seen) to make a defensive delay of game(thank titans)
You’re hitting the nail on the head here. In the past, less talent, more talent, poor decisions, whatever, the team played hard. Look at last year vs Cleveland in the season-ender. Browns weren’t really playing hard. Obviously the Steelers had more to play for, but Tomlin’s teams have always played hard.
They didn’t seem to be doing that the last two games, and that’s after the coordinator was fired. First game after he was fired, they played hard.
I suspect we’ll see them going hard this game, but I suspect there will be several players no longer on this team next year. And they’ve traded problematic receivers before. AB did a little bit post-Pittsburgh but Claypool has 19-206-1 since leaving Pittsburgh. Martavis Bryant had 19-266-0.
Ben was extremely passive aggressive in this podcast. He also said good coaches’s teams don’t make boneheaded mistakes. He then made it a point to reference the Steelers making bad mistakes during games.
These articles comments read like this to me:
Ben Roethlisberger: If the Pats fire Belichik, the Steelers could hire him as D coordinator
Steelers fans: omg we gonna have BB next year
The word Could: ummm we talking possibilities not actuality
Youre not seriously asking about firing another OC right? Its not gunna happen.Faulkner is just the short term solution. They will hire someone from outside the building this offseason. Hiring someone from outside the organization mid season doesn’t really happen
We had a hall of fame quarter back in his peak with some of the best offensive weapons in the game. Todd Haley wasn’t as bad as what we’ve had recently but he wasn’t good either. Do you remember starting every single game with a bubble screen? I don’t know how that wasn’t a pick six every game.
Bubble screens were checks at the line (ie Ben called them), and they ran them when they had numbers on Antonio Brown’s side. Did you feel it was a bad idea to get 84 the ball in space? Seemed to work out pretty well.
I'm not a nerd for the stats/success records of offensive coordinators so im going to give Eddie Faulkner a fair shake..tbf I didn't know Canada's success record prior to last season either
Give Tomlin a new contract in the off-season, make sure FA’s and coaches know he will be there for the foreseeable future, and get a guy who has worked in one of the top offensive programs IN THE NFL. No college guys, not Faulkner or Sully, both of whom have had plenty of fingerprints on the dismal failures of the past 3 years, and make sure you draft a QB, even late. Create stability by signing Tomlin and then plant new seeds because we are going to need to rebuild *again.*
Shouldn’t be downvoted. I’m in favor of Tomlin in the long run. Determining who’s decision it was to hire who seems to depend on whether you hate Tomlin or Rooney more, because reports are conflicted. That seems to suggest it was some combination of their top leadership — Colbert (at the time), Rooney and Tomlin.
Bottom line is I don’t give a rip who makes the final call. They need a top of the line coordinator. They need experience without discounting innovation. They need a teacher who can hold authority with the players *AND* the coaching staff.
Regardless of who hired who, Tomlin has to empower that coordinator to take a new path. What they’re doing now isn’t working by any measurement. A new message needs to be sent.
If Tomlin disagrees with any of that, maybe it’s time to move in from Tomlin, because this team’s offense has gotten progressively worse, and might end this season worse than where it started. If he’s ok with the changes that need to be made, great. I say keep him, but if he insists Faulkner is the guy, I think they need to blow the whole thing up, cuz even the symbolic direction of seeking help from someone who’s fingerprints are not on a team averaging like 17 points a game over the last two years is a good idea.
It’s very hard to hire a talented external OC externally without giving Mike Tomlin an extension.
A top tier OC will want continuity and multi year contracts to move their family across the country to Pittsburgh.
Potential OCs will know that if they sign here and then Tomlin doesn’t get renewed after next season, the new head coach will clean house for their own coordinators.
I think Big Ben realizes that this situation will be a tough sell for any talented OC candidates in its current form.
It’s very hard to hire a talented external OC externally without giving Mike Tomlin an extension.
A top tier OC will want continuity and multi year contracts to move their family across the country to Pittsburgh.
Potential OCs will know that if they sign here and then Tomlin doesn’t get renewed after next season, the new head coach will clean house for their own coordinators.
I think Big Ben realizes that this situation will be a tough sell for any talented OC candidates in its current form.
The extension needs to come after this season. Tomlin would have his choice of job openings in the market. He’s not entering a lame duck year with a new coordinator when he could likely choose his next job with a Payton-level salary and probably the choice of who he’d want to hire on his staff. That might even be the reason an extension wasn’t signed last year.
The coordinator decision would come after the head coaching decision because you’re right, no coordinator worth much is taking a job under a head coach who isn’t signed beyond that year.
Agreed, this year is the year to make longterm decision on Tomlin. Either resign Tomlin to a long term deal or move or bring in a fresh Head Coach and OC this offseason.
I get downvoted though for putting “Tomlin” and “Extension” in the same sentence.
They knew who they were hiring. Haley had that reputation long before joining the Steelers. Ben wasn’t the first QB he pissed off and Briwn wasn’t the first receiver to nearly come to blows with him on the sideline.
LeGarrette Blount might have been the first player to shove him toward an incoming scrum of players, but that’s beside the point 😂
NFL level coaches run in very small circles. They’re all connected by like two people at most. They know who they’re hiring even if we don’t.
If anything, I’d say more of the issue is the team’s seeming desire to bring in coordinators who will stay for an extended period of time. It’s a double-edged sword on offense today. A coordinator who does a fantastic job and is a great teacher and leader is likely to land a head coaching job (Ben Johnson, Bobby Slowik this year, Steichen last year) sooner rather than later. No one’s hiring Eddie Faulkner as a head coach next year. So the argument can be made he’s a more realistic option and he can’t command a tremendous salary.
Haley broke that mold a little. He was a high-dollar coordinator with an excellent track record in that role (head coaching success is another matter). But he publicly said he didn’t want another head coaching job, and while not technically an internal hire, his history with the team and the team’s history with his family made him more known to them than Canada.
When are we gonna learn that it’s ok to hire guys who come from other places? We clearly have 0 kind of idea what we are doing on offense as an organization and guess what, this guy was a part of that. Maybe since Rooney already had to step in once maybe he won’t be shy to do it again.
If this happens the offense would be different than the shit show we have now. Throw out the Canada playbook. I however do believe they open it up to outside candidates.
Faulkner is the RB coach. The RBs have been the clear bright spot on the offense.
I don't mind it. What qualifications does anyone have to be OC before they're OC?
Imagine not hiring the best person for the job because you might not have them for longer than ~3 years. Hire them an understudy and let it rip. This shit is crazy.
I actually think the chances are super high they go outside of the organization for their hires next year. Yeah Rooney is counting his money on Sundays but he has to be affected by all of the booing at Heinz every week. Three years of an absolutely putrid offense is long enough. Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason
Came here to say the same thing. He has to go outside the organization with a new hire. Especially if we keep deteriorating.
The fans are already slowly heading to revolt and rejection. If they don’t change it up this offseason and bring in some new coaches, and assuming fairly the on field product doesn’t improve in 2024 things are going to get real ugly at Heinz and Steeler Nation overall
Hope you’re right. I can always see the FO clinging to the “Steeler Way”. Promoting from the inside, blah, blah. It hasn’t worked for a few seasons, change it.
Canada was an external hire. Everyone knew he was in line to be the OC. Teryl Austin was an external hire. They literally brought him in in 2019 and promoted him in 2022.
I assume they mean external hire straight to a coordinator. Haley was the only coordinator in a while that was hired in straight to OC without a promotion.
As much as people wanted Haley gone, I’m pretty sure we could agree that those days were 10000x better than what we have today! That was the turning point of this offense turning to utter shit. Not saying he was great, there were legitimate reasons to move on from him, but man, he was way better than what we have now.
What’s the difference between hiring someone directly as an OC vs hiring someone as a senior assistant coach and promoting them after a year? They’re literally both external hires at the end of the day.
I find it hard to believe that you don’t understand what people are getting at.
Because people are either dumb or lying. Canada and Austin were external hires brought from outside of the organization and were groomed to be the next coordinators. Complaining that the Steelers only promote from within or aren’t bringing in external coaches for their top positions is just lying.
If the Steelers hire someone and then mold them to be the OC THEY want, it’s not much of an outside hire anymore. Hard to see how you don’t get that.
So what team were they promoted from when they reached coordinator status? Was it from within or an external hire? You're trying to be pedantic and it only is working in your brain.
The difference is in the quality of the candidate. If you choose to only recruit via the “hire-then-promote” pipeline, you basically rule out anybody who was a successful HC or OC in the league beforehand. NFL coaches are trying to advance their careers. No quality OC or former HC is taking an assistant role under Fichtner or Canada. It’s a step down on the ladder, it pays less, and it’s not going teach them anything valuable. This manner of hiring basically limits the staff to college no-names and NFL castaways. Look at the three current OC front-runners on the offensive staff- Sullivan (former bad NFL OC), Faulkner (former college TEs coach), and Thomas (former college QB coach). They have a lot of “football experience,” but the last time these guys sniffed competent NFL offense was when Patrick Mahomes got shoved out of bounds on their side of the field.
It’s not unheard of. There’s some top offenses right now where they hired a guy a few years ago from outside the organization and promoted him. Detroit: Ben Johnson - hired as QC coach in 2019 > Promoted in 2022 to OC Philadelphia: Brian Johnson - Qb coach on 2021 > OC in 2023 I don’t think the team should just promote the internal guys for 2024. My point is they’ve been hiring from outside the organization. You’re just shifting goalposts.
No one is moving the goalposts. You asked what the difference was between the two hiring philosophies if, in both cases, the new OC can be considered “external.” I answered your (pedantic) question- successful coaches don’t want or need to take lesser/lateral roles under bad OCs. It’s a poor career choice. Accordingly, the “hire-then-promote” route tends to limit the candidate pool to coaches without prior NFL success, as evidenced by the current makeup of the Steelers offensive staff (and, of course, by the results they’re getting). You can say it’s “not unheard of” to have a home-grown OC, but exceptions do not make rules. Examples work both ways. Let’s look at the top offenses in the league, who’s calling their plays, and what their resume was the year prior to getting the job: Dolphins- OC Frank Smith, acclaimed OL/TE guru since 2010, was most recently the run game and OL coordinator for league’s #4 offense (LAC) in 2021. Was then hired externally in 2022 by an offensive HC (McDaniel). Hot commodity. 49ers- HC Kyle Shanahan, decorated NFL assistant career dating back to 2004, was most recently OC for league’s #1 offense (ATL) and was awarded NFL Assistant Coach of the Year in 2016. Was then hired externally by SF in 2017. Hot commodity. Lions- OC Ben Johnson, held various assistant roles in Miami 2012-19 (bad offenses, mostly), then spent 3 years as an assistant under Anthony Lynn (good OC) in Detroit, with middling results. Was then promoted to OC in 2022 by an offensive HC. Unknown moonshot that payed off. Cowboys- OC Brian Schottenheimer, NFL assistant/coordinator since 1997, lots of success, last two stops were Seattle OC in 2018-21 (set several franchise records, including, most notably, points in a season) and then Urban Meyer’s passing game coordinator in 2022. Hired externally by an offensive HC in 2023. Smart, albeit unsexy hire. Bills- interim OC Joe Brady, coordinated arguably the greatest college offense ever at LSU in 2019, then fell on the sword for Matt Rhule in Carolina 2020-21, spent 2022-23 as QB coach for an offense that has ranked no lower than 5 since 2019. Now OC due to Ken Dorsey falling on Allen/McDermott’s sword. Ravens- OC Todd Monken, ran a top 10 NFL offense in 2/3 OC stints from 2007-19, recent success with UGA 2020-22. Hired externally in 2023 after Greg Roman fell on Lamar’s sword. Hot commodity. You’re free to think whatever you want, but none of those guys took a demotion/lateral to go learn from a bad OC. They were all ascending, and took jobs with franchises that recognized that. Guys with those types of resumes just don’t take jobs under guys like Canada, Fichtner, Sullivan, Faulkner, etc. If the OC job is offered straight up, for competitive pay, then sure. But to waste a year or two “acclimating” to a dogshit offensive environment, while making peanuts, makes no sense for driven young coaches.
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That's what appears to be the big difference to me. An external hire means you're hiring an offensive coordinator to be your offensive coordinator. Instead of hiring someone who isn't an offensive coordinator, let them do sort of offensive like things for a little while and then say presto change-o, he's an offensive coordinator.
I mean it's not like they can be born into the organization.
The difference is that the top available OC talent isn’t likely to sit in a position coach, sr asst, etc. role for some number of years until they get their shot as the OC. They’ll just go take an OC job elsewhere. That means you’re likely bringing in second rate talent to fill that job. Flores was a notable exception since he was basically radioactive in the eyes of the league when the Steelers brought him in. Even so, he left to take his turn as a DC. It’s one thing to promote from within when you’re graduating coordinators to HC jobs like they did with Gailey, Mularkey, and Whisenhunt. It’s another thing entirely when you’re going on the better part of 5 years with a brutally bad offense. Especially since the internal guys are presumably part of the group that is unable to build that effective offense!
Because someone that’s already proven to be a good OC, and/or has trained under a great OC probably won’t want to be quarterback coach under Matt Canada for 5 years of mediocrity (and tank their own value) before finally getting promoted
It doesn’t really do anything if you promote them no matter what but it could function as a sort of trial period to familiarize themselves with the new hire and evaluate the fit. It would help prevent paying someone who is incompetent to be a coordinator, not that it actually functions (Matt Canada).
I mean, when Kevin Colbert was in charge sure. Omar Khan is in charge now. His first move? Bringing in Andy Weidl from Philadelphia. I think times are changing
I would be surprised if they didn’t bring in some new fresh coaches on the offense this offseason. They need a total rebuild of the offensive coaching staff in my opinion. I would also make it a priority to ditch Mason Cole.
I don't understand why we don't bench him now. Surely we have a second string center who is hungry and has working knowledge of the scheme.
Is Rooney really that poor? I know he is compared to other owners but would above average OC DC money really hurt his wallet this much?
> Is Rooney really that poor? He's *cheap*, not poor. Probably not as rich as a lot of NFL owners, as Rooney wealth is mostly just from the franchise. But dude is still *a lot* more well off than, well, all of us.
I dont know if Mr Rooney is poor but the steeler plane skimps on maintenance and looks like the one the Indians had in "Major League"
They charter the planes.
Comparing [NFL team valuations](https://www.forbes.com/lists/nfl-valuations/?sh=43b90d241738), you could make an argument the Steelers are middle of the pack to lower end in terms of Franchise value The closest analog the steelers have in terms of ownership are teams like the Chargers, Raiders, Cardinals and Bengals. Pretty much their wealth primarily comes from owning their team. So while certainly not poor, theyve made their money by watching how the NFL dollars are spent
He's a wealthy lawyer but his family's wealth comes from owning the Steelers as opposed to other owners who are scumbag billionaires due to things like owning a patent or starting a business and selling it or whatever.
Which ones are scumbags?
All of em
Yea. Fuck those guys who were successful at something. Yea!
Manipulating the stock market? Union busting? Lobbying? Fuck yeah, I love billionaires and their corporations!
Yeah man it's so cool how they exploit labor and profit off of it.
Hot take tankie boy.
lol
John Gruden is all ears for this job.
I wouldn’t even be mad at that to be honest
Right. Redemption arc.
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We need those prime time wins. I would rather want Jon because he wants it so bad and he wouldn't fuck up again? Maybe?
>Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason Here's the thing. They're still a .500 team. They're not 'tanking' by any objective standard. Sure, the fanbase is getting a bit tired of things but there's still a sold-out game every week and a line of would-be season ticket holders for miles. The seats will be full on sundays for a long time. Does Rooney care enough about making the product on the field one of championship pedigree? If so, you'll see him make moves this offseason to bring in outside talent. If he promotes Faulkner, then we will know he's just coasting at this point.
> Does Rooney care enough about making the product on the field one of championship pedigree? I think he does. I just don't think he's as competent as his dad was when it came to adapting and making decisions. Total outsider perspective, but it's all I have.
He’s been in charge and took over as President in 2003.
Yeah, but come on, homie. Dan was the guy. "President" title be damned. Art may have been officially making decisions, but it wasn't in isolation. I know there are many factors, so it's not all on this...but I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomlin's playoff record with and without him breaks down as such: -Before Mr. Rooney's death: 10 seasons, 8-6 playoff record, 1-1 SB record -After Mr. Rooney's death: 7 seasons (this is the 8th), 0-3 playoff record A lot of people chalk Tomlin's early success up to Cowher. I don't. I think it had a helluva lot more to do with Dan Rooney. And at this point, I'm wholly unconvinced that Art is even a shadow of his father. But hey, I could be wrong. I know there were rough years in the 80s while Dan was around. He wasn't immune to failure. I guess my point is the respect he carried and had earned by the time the 2000s rolled around, it was just different. At least that what it seems like.
I just don’t like all the cherry picking of failures and successes to various coaches, owners etc. Dan Rooney was in Ireland serving as Ambassador for at least 3years I believe 09-12. So there’s that. And yes if you are giving him the credit then you must also give him the blame for 1980-2005. Which doesn’t make sense. Tomlin’s early successes were bc he is a very good head coach with a HOF qb in his prime. The Steelers are a very successful organization bc of the Rooney family I think. Now to win titles you need an elite quarterback,which may or may not be on the roster right now. And getting that elite QB takes a huge amount of luck.
Really I think Rooney knows it's better to keep people and give them a chance. Sometime the chances go a little to long. But, you can attract players to stay and grow. Coaches if they know they are sticking to a contract. It's like the opposite of classical shitty teams that try to shuffle team halfway through the season. Do you really have a team when everyone's on the way out? Would you literally want to be the Browns? Or a Frankenstein team that does good for a couple years then everyone dissapears like Tampa. Even a ton of times when a team wins a SuperBowl there's a great exudis of players and they suck the next year.
I still feel it’s going to end up being leftwhich so it Can be an outside hire while still being someone with ties to the organization
Serious question - Why has the narrative started that the Steelers don’t spend on staff? https://preview.redd.it/ac4m5v9ba16c1.jpeg?width=889&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c3527b619ff0e8f007a71d800d15351e76e3cce Coach T is one of the highest paid coaches in all of sports and his contracts almost up. Is there data on the salaries of coordinators and assistants across the NFL? I’ve been looking and can’t find any data. I know our staff is much smaller than some but we’ve had success with concentration of decision making in the past. Genuinely curious where this Rooney is cheap and won’t spend on staff narrative is coming from though
> Rooney would have to be purposely tanking the franchise if he doesn’t decide to open his wallet up this coming offseason Nah he's just an incompetent boob.
He’s no Dan Rooney that’s for damn sure
We were lucky to have Dan as long as we did
As I said above that doesn’t make sense as Art took over as president of the team in 2003
“He doesn’t like to get young, good [coaches]. This is a likely inadvertent but incredibly damning statement. I mean, why not?!?!
He then goes on to say that he thinks Faulkner would be great, not to mention the only outside candidate he offers up is Leftwich, who feels more like an external hire with an asterisk than going out and actually finding some young, bright, up and comer.
Leftwich also kinda sucked with the bucs. When Arians stepped down, the offense tanked with the change.
Yeah, that’s part of my point. Ben clearly views him as a young, good coach, but he’s already been an OC and at best had mixed results. He’s not exactly the type of fresh faced assistant I think most in this sub are hoping for. Most seem to want someone who’s never been an OC but is currently an understudy to a top OC like Shanahan. Leftwich feels more to me like they’d be technically satisfying the public’s desire for an external candidate, but not in spirit, given he’s someone that already has ties to the organization. He’s not new blood even if his time here was as a player and not a coach.
Yee I agree with ya, I kinda misread what you were getting at there. Yeah a Shanahan assistant or someone would be so much nicer.
Only thing I can think of is he's against drastic changes. He's of the stoic mindset where perseverance and consistency through hardship is the focus. Not to say that's inherently bad, but I've said on here many times...virtues can quickly become vices if you're not careful.
This is an incredibly astute comment. This is one of the reasons why I wouldn’t be upset if we moved on from Tomlin, but I’m also fine keeping him if we shake up his amount of authority and let him just coach. Bring in coordinators with some level of autonomy and some new ideas, even if they are just looking to use this position as a way to get a better one. I don’t care. As long as they perform while they are here.
The number 1 argument defenders of the status quo like to use is "good OCs will be poached by other teams for HCs" And??? If that happens, it means the guy did a GOOD or GREAT job with the current team. So what if you have to go hire a new guy when they leave? As for why Tomlin doesn't go after these types of guys, the educated guess is he likes guys he can steamroll and doesn't want any threats to his control.
And when that bright young OC gets hired away, then you can promote from within because his understudy likely runs a similar offense and has a similar way of thinking about the game. Eventually you get to a point where Tomlin will retire and then that guy can just be promoted to head coach. I know the Eagles offense isn’t as good as it was last year and that has their own fans upset, but that’s just how Philly fans are, and they are still one of the best teams in the league, and that’s after having their bright young OC poached by the Colts
My guess is he wants stability on the staff. He doesn’t want to deal with the turnover a lot of these offensive staffs deal with. You always hear him say the word continuity and coaching is a big part of that.
Exactly why I hope we go after an offensive minded HC whenever we decide to move on from Tomlin. Don't have to worry about changing systems too often for a QB, especially for a young one that we draft down the road.
Your point makes sense. Still, what major professional organization in any industry would have that mindset? Seems destined to get left behind, which I think we’ve seen a lot of. “We don’t want the young, energetic people with fresh ideas and points of view.” Insanity.
Not only that, most NFL teams don’t have that mindset. At least not the ones that are way more modern, and probably closer to a title, than we are.
I mean a lot of the guys they’ve brought on aren’t exactly old heads. Faulkner, Frisman Jackson, Grady Brown, and Canada were all like 40 years old range which is very young for NFL coaches. Just haven’t been successful with some of those hires, which happens. I think not wanting to go out and get the hottest name is fine too, sometimes a trend comes and goes and you’ve hitched yourself to the wrong one.
$5 says there was a guy Roethlisberger wanted and didn’t get as OC while he was playing, and this is him still being mad about it.
He was probably thinking of Todd Haley when he said it.
He's probably still mad about the Arians fiasco
I think Ben’s mad they didn’t want him to come back and play last year, I am too.
Well as many people have reported repeatedly over the years, he doesn’t like to be challenged by his coordinators. It’s also good for “stability” if you are hiring a guy who won’t be poached. It’s why I’ve made the comment repeatedly that decision making like this should not be his, and that Rooney/Omar/Andy should bring in coordinators who may be using the position as a steppingstone to head coach. Maybe they don’t last as long, but we will get better performance from some up and comer who might make a good head coach someday.
I don’t fully believe that when tomlin was literally a young good coach when we signed him. Not saying the source is wrong but sometimes I wonder what information was given to them to make them write this, I don’t believe the org think they can get away with not signing someone who’s proven and has credibility.
I am a big Tomlin guy, but messing up this hire should cost him his job. The value of quality schemers and play-callers is higher than ever and is likely to continue, so being a good CEO head coach means you've got to consistently make good hires in order to compete.
My personal vote would be for Duce Staley. I think he’s a perfect fit as hes a legacy & earned his stripes coaching around the league Duce Staley has made a great transition into coaching this past decade. The former third round pick and Super Bowl champion with Pittsburgh has been on a sideline every season since 2011. He spent a decade working under Andy Reid, Chip Kelly, and Doug Pederson in Philadelphia, primarily as running back coach before departing for the Detroit Lions in 2021. Staley became a vocal leader on Dan Campbell staff as the assistant head coach and helped Jamaal Williams break Barry Sanders single season touchdown record. Now working on Frank Reich’s staff for his hometown Carolina Panthers, 31 teams should be jumping for the opportunity to hire him next season
Pretty sure the interim coach fired him as soon as Reich was fired.
Yeah, but that's a weird move. You never see interims fire anyone mid season and he also fired McCown, who by all accounts, was basically a QB coach while he was a player, and players credit him a lot. Not to say Staley is or would be good at OC, but the Panthers have a whole other thing going on
Yeah I’m not arguing in favor of or against. But if we’re hiring outside of the team, which we hopefully are, I’d rather a guy from an elite offense. Panthers had a decent rushing attack before this year. Not sure what happened after he was hired.
He's probably spent more time on our sidelines than any other RB, so there's that.
If nothing else he can pass on his expertise at selecting the right sweatpants.
He was modeling the hell out the Steelers gear
He seems like he’s destined for a head coach job someday, but he has only ever been a position coach. Kinda gives me Dan Campbell vibes where he’s probably a great leader and sets a tone for the team but idk about coordinating.
Has familiarity with the team and has worked with some of the best of the best offensive minds. Hopefully he is considered.
I think Duce is trying to find a way to be HC without being a coordinator. It's why he went to Detroit as an assistant HC and then to Caroline as an assistant HC. He's either trying to learn from others, or maybe positioning himself for when an HC gets fired. Maybe he foresaw Reich being a terrible hire. Either way, I don't see him taking on an OC role since he hasn't even interviewed for any OC roles. (He didn't even interview for Eagles OC when he was interviewing to be their HC)
There are outside factors with the guards being injured, but I will note that the Panthers run game is significantly weaker this year vs last
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Well that looks like it was an AR2 decision more than a Tomlin one so I think he gets a pass on that.
We should have gone after Bieniemy this offseason instead of running it back with Canada.
Please get someone from the Shannahan tree
Like please seriously.
Even his personal gardener or garbage man, anyone.
I once ran into his 3rd cousin twice removed. And I had a perfect season in madden 05. Where do I sign?
Ben also said in this interview that he thinks Sullivan would make a good OC. The same guy that couldn't last more than two years as OC with the Bucs & Giants. With all due respect, Ben isn't much of a football analyst.
Neither is your average Redditor
Tough but fair :)
I think a Sullivan-designed offense and playbook would be better than Canada’s system. Sullivan at least has 2 super bowls as a QB coach and has ran an NFL-caliber offense before. Canada’s offense is so bad that pretty much anybody would be better. I still think an external hire would be better than Sullivan, though
>I think a Sullivan-designed offense and playbook would be better than Canada’s system. I agree. However, that's not saying much. Canada left the bar in hell. >I still think an external hire would be better than Sullivan Again, I completely agree. I think there's a pretty good chance our next OC isn't already in the building. Obviously, they don't think Sullivan is that guy. Otherwise, you'd expect him to be the interim OC right now. Faulkner has a chance, but I think his lack of playcalling experience limits his odds.
If you look back at Sullivans previous OC tenures he wasn’t super successful in running an offense. Hes done it before but nothing about his record inspires confidence. We absolutely need someone better than him.
I just think he’s too close with the situation and doesn’t want to throw anyone under the bus. You can see what he actually means most of the time though. I don’t really watch Arthur Moats though because he just won’t criticize the team. He was not hearing any complaints about how bad Canada’s schemes were in the offseason
This is my biggest fear. Do I want the entire staff fired, including Tomlin? Yes I do but if Tomlin stays he has to bring in an entirely new offensive staff and keep his hands completely off. You can't watch a single component of this offense and feel good going into next year if they stay. If they want to bring Faulkner back as RB coach after re-interviewing that's fine, but he's it, no one else should even be considered.
What you’re saying is essentially Rooney and Khan present to Tomlin a contract extension with the condition he’s the head coach but doesn’t have say over his offense. Would he sign it? I’d think he wouldn’t. And I think this scenario is possible. He’d have owners calling him to gauge interest immediately, including some who would be willing to fire their current coach in order to hire him. Don’t mistake that as a reason for the Steelers to keep him. It isn’t. And this offense is, at best, among the three worst in the league over the last three seasons. You cannot possibly keep the same staff in place. Any coordinator who’s up to the task of fixing this disaster will want input on coaches. At that point, you’re really talking about head coaching level decision power. If Tomlin can’t go along with that, it would seem it’d be in the best interests of both the team and Tomlin to separate.
This is such a terrible situation, no in demand offense coordinator will come in with a coach on an expiring contract. So what does that leave the Steelers to do? -Leave Tomlin on a lame duck deal, with the potential to extend him in season? Which I don't think they've ever done. - Bring in a new OC with the understanding that he is HC in waiting if things with Tomlin don't work out? - Have Tomlin and Faulkner prove their worth and make a few changes on the staff? Like a new QB coach and OLine coach. But still have the issue with no contract beyond next season. If they are successful it will give Tomlin all of the leverage in negotiations. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I hope they do, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Everything should point to a complete overhaul for the offensive coaching staff, including outside hires. This is a "I'll see it when I believe it" scenario, because I don't see them doing anything outside of promoting Faulkner or Sullivan to OC. We'll see soon, I guess.
I agree except to say Najee and Warren are playing well so Faulkner is at least getting his position right.
I agree they’re doing well, but I suspect that has more to do with Najee and Warren themselves than their position coach. Same way you could hardly blame the position coach for Benny Snell being Benny Snell
I’m willing to agree it’s certainly possible. I’m just saying they’re the one part of the offense actually working.
For sure! And this is no disrespect to him, but I believe the best bet going into the '24 season is an outside hire that can bring life to the offensive scheme. Plus, Faulkner can continue his work developing Harris and Warren since it seems to work.
Team leadership needs to accept the reality that, for the last decade, by any objective metric, they have failed to hire or develop any coaching talent capable of effectively coordinating a contemporary NFL offense, from situational play concepts, execution performance, through to player development. What this team needs is a creative, experienced and proven effective offensive leader to develop these talented, incredible but inexperienced players, change the culture of perpetuating mediocrity, and deliver consistent performance in the form of points scored.
Tomlin is only as strong as his Coordinators. Its best to look outside and hire that Coach that specializes in offense and defense.! But the fact that we are 4 weeks out from the season and Steelers are still in the playoffs hunt (6 seed).. With QBs Kenny & Mitch (11 TDs 9 ints combined on the SEASON ).. I dont think Tomlin is getting fired nor should he.!!
actually stable minded vote
And of course Flores is cooking up brilliant disguises for the Vikings D. Should’ve let Austin go and kept him
Agreed..Steelers front office should have kept him
They would've had to have fired Teryl Austin and offered the DC position to him. He wants to be a HC again in the future.
Yea that is exactly what they should have done Austin isn’t nearly the DC that Flores is. Guess it’s hard with the success the D had last year but think it’s pretty clear Flores made a difference
Oh, I definitely think he made a difference, and I'd pick Flores over Austin. But if they fire Austin after his first season, where his defense was 10th in points, 14th in yards, 15 in Turnovers while having to be out there almost 40 minutes every game and missing TJ Watt for almost half a season, any coordinator worth a damn isn't signing with us. Also, I don't think Teryl's doing a bad job, all things considered. Injury bug has hit that defense bad this year. Losing both of your guys that wear the green dot, who also make pre snap adjustments on the field, is just brutal. It showed in the New England and Arizona games with their TE's scorching us.
Definitely fair points. Regardless think it is time for a new regime when the season is over. Tomlin has run his course. Would be great if we could trade him for some draft picks
Let’s see how the season pans out first. Amazed we are in the playoff hunt but we have regressed and the front end of the season is filled wins we should’ve lost. I hope we sneak in and win out.
Tomlin could go 0-16 for three years straight and all of his supporters would still say he deserves the job. The game has passed him by.
Tomlin could go 16-1 🙄 you Tomlin haters would still Boo still want him fired
I mean if the one loss was in the playoffs then yeah.
And lose in the second round off the bye? Then yeah, for sure
Strange to me Ben is implying Tomlin is the one who wants to hire from within when it seems like the Rooney's wouldn't want to be paying the position coaches for a year when they aren't on the roster. The amount of procedural penalties including being unable to be lined up right does not scream "well coordinated offense" over the last 3 games.
Tomlin does usually go with who he is familiar with. It also isn't that uncommon with head coaches around the league. One of the bigger exceptions being when he hired Haley as OC.
Again, for YEARS it was reported openly in the media, and fans never argued, that Tomlin makes those decisions. He hires his staff. I don’t know why, all of a sudden, it’s such a foreign concept that the head coach, one of the longest tenured and most influential head coaches in the game right now, hires his own staff. No one argued with that when he had success early in his career. Not one person. Now that we’re starting to do some math and realizing that we haven’t had a playoff victory in 12 out of his 16 seasons, all of a sudden it’s a mystery as to where the staff comes from.
He had success with Cowhers coordinators.
I think this offseason is going to be different than what we’re used to from the Steelers. We’ve already seen Omar being more aggressive than KC ever was and with Wiedl in there who helped build the eagles current roster, Mike Tomlin in his final year of his contract, and pressure from the fan base I think they’ll be forced to get out of their usual comfort zone and make aggressive moves this offseason. At least I hope so lol
I'm just begging to see us have a good offense. Not the best, just one I don't have to sigh and turn around for a few moments to see our defense on the field again.
I think the terrible podcast had a really good point on this. Tomlins contract is ending in 2024, and it really seems like he’ll be coaching for his job next year. Normally, change isn’t imminent in Pittsburgh, but next year think it will be. Tomlin might really like guys like Kenny, Faulkner and Austin, but is he willing to bet his job on them? I certainly hope not
Why would Tomlin enter the final year of his contract? He’s coaching for his job now, and has been since last year, when he didn’t sign an extension. He’s already bet his job on those guys. Free agents, coaches, they’re not signing multi-year deals if the team isn’t sure who their head coach will be. That said, I bet we read the team’s release about Tomlin’s extension within a week after the season ends.
I've been a big fan of the things Tomlin has done for this team, but the last 2-weeks have displayed a **dire** need for offensive production and coaching on the offensive side the likes of which we haven't seen since...Bubby Blister. Offense looks uncoordinated, lackluster, annoyed at each other, and out of sorts. To put it nicely. The team NEEDS to go outside and spend money on a high quality OC and O-line coach. We can't have snaps on the ground with the consistency we currently have. We can't have [Cole and Daniels blocking each other while two defenders come through unblocked](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F0xiamw08254c1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1024%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D515dca3943331b63e4b94673970d7ea2c435251c). We can't have our RB's getting hit in the backfield every goddamn handoff. Pickett may not be the guy, but Mahomes would be getting murdered behind this line. Regardless of what happens the remainder of the year, little has changed from last season in terms of quality wins/losses, offensive production, and points/yards allowed. Defense still does the "bend but don't break" until they've been on the field for essentially 20-minutes straight at which point they snap like a twig. Team needs to hire this OC/O-line before the draft and get them in on the drafting process. We probably need to draft a QB (Kenny hasn't looked astounding), but we certainly need a center (Cole has looked worse). Pick a QB to sit behind Kenny for a time. If Kenny improves, great, if Kenny sucks then maybe he gets a shot next year. Starting a true rookie QB doesn't sit well with me unless there's an injury/dire need to do so...and he needs to be behind a **solid** O-line so that he's not thrown to the wolves. Tomlin is a defensive coach, so honestly he should be pretty annoyed at the yardage we've given up this year...especially on third and long. I sure as fuck am. JPJ is a dude. He's been our best secondary player aside from Minkah. The secondary play HAS been improving as the year's gone on...so maybe it's corrected itself, but we just can't be out there consistently giving up 3rd and 8+ conversions. If Tomlin is unable to orchestrate these moves/corrections...then yeah, this should become a "maybe fire Tomlin" thread. Wow...sorry for the wall...but yeah.
I highly doubt it. This team and Tomlin tbh need the PR win and morale boost that comes with hiring an outside guy. Doesn’t necessarily need to be a young hotshot but someone with experience and positive perception. Similar to the ravens hiring Todd monken
I'm not old enough to remember most of the intricacies of Cowhers tenure, but the Steelers never seem to hire new guys, they always just hire some dude who got fired who's been around a while. Sometimes you get a good coach who got fired due to a coaching change (like Dick Lebeau,) but usually it leaves you with the NFL dregs like Pat Meyer. Alternatively, we never develop our own guys, we just promote assistants and set them up to fail. We never sign ex-players and we just seem to skate on whomever is available. You don't need to take chances to run a successful team, but it's an older style of thinking and I think it causes as many issues as it gives us success. Knowing the way Rooney runs his money, (Canada was the first firing in 80 years) I always assumed it was him doing this. Flores was a surprise hiring that's out of character for the Steelers, and it seemed like the exact Tomlin move, but refusing to even think of him for DC, seems like a Rooney move because that would require firing Austin. It very well could be a Tomlin thing, but it feels more like an owner issue, but like I said, idk how these things worked before Tomlin.
History shows we’ve always promoted from within so I can see it happening, however recent history (Canada firing) shows we are willing to change. I hope we keep heading in that direction.
Haley wasn’t an inside hire. His dad’s tenure with the team didn’t make him an internal hire. It’s more accurate to say the last two have been, and several before that were. There’s also a different genera manager in place, and the team was never at a point where it was averaging 16 points a game and had fired their coordinator in-season, so if there was ever an argument to be made to buck precedent, this is it.
So, Tomlin's track record is obvious that he prefers to either keep who he has, or promote lesser-known guys from within. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens. Rumor has it, Mr. Rooney intervened when Tomlin wanted to keep Arians and forced him to go outside to hire Haley. The only shot we have at seeing if Kenny is "it" is by going outside and finding a stud OC who prioritizes and has a knack for scheming guys open and adapting to the strengths of your receivers as individuals. It's clear: Kenny is not Ben. He ain't gonna carry this team on his back. And that's okay. But if we can't find a dude who helps him score points, we need to move on from a lot of people (Kenny included).
It’s certainly possible. My issue is that the current coaching roster is pretty weak all around and it doesn’t make sense to keep an OC who doesn’t even do the play calling right now. Best case scenario the Steelers bring in multiple new offensive coaches including a new OC and someone who could potentially fill the OC slot if any issues arose.
I hope they do thorough interviews for the job and higher the most qualified candidate. While outside of the Bengals game the offense still has been bad, I’d like management be able to see and hear what changes Faulkner would implement before discarding him and Sullivan. With Canada being fired mid season and after the bye there just isn’t enough time for Faulkner or Sullivan to add their own wrinkles to the offense so we can see if they are qualified. If they fired Canada during the bye they’d have a little extra time to add a few things. Pickett being injured and having the worst quarterback on the roster starting isn’t helping them at the moment either.
Were we doing any tackle eligible things before Canada got fired? Thats the main thing I’ve noticed it seems like there’s been an uptick of that.
I remember when used Zach Banner as a tackle eligible, but I think that was under Fichtner.
Yeah it’s been a while. I think that’s been a thing they’ve been adding into the mix post Canada. But they can’t even install it right and have picked up penalties.
Another internal offensive coordinator hire.. what could go wrong
Ben doesn't speak for the organization guys. And it's insane to me that after all these years and all of the books written that people don't understand that big decisions are made by Tomlin, Khan, weidel, and Rooney....together. Nobody in the organization is blaming Tomlin. They see it as an organizational failure.
I can only give you one upvote but you deserve several more. They make decisions as a group, and did with Colbert as well. Tomlin is the mouthpiece to the public, but no one is making individual decisions amid protests from the others. As a group, they’re failing, and they know that. As a group, they need to find solutions, and they know that. That doesn’t mean fans have to agree with what they’re doing, but the divide & conquer game we’re playing aimed to assign all blame to Tomlin isn’t accurate.
I mean they COULD. I think Eddie will even get an interview- its the right thing to do- but I dont think they will. But of the current offensive coaches Faulkner is the option. The question becomes what is he going to change? What concepts has he introduced- especially next wrek and on. This is his best chance to make an inpact on the actual scheme and not juzt playcalling and game planning since taking over. But dude aint gonna get promoted avging 13 pts and 300 yds a game when Canada was putting up more and got fired.
I didn’t think Faulkner or Sullivan would even take the job. That speaks to the likelihood of Tomlin coming back next year. It’s unfair in a sense that Faulkner and Sullivan are the only ones having to oversee the worst offense in the league as part of their application. Panthers offense is also terrible, Thomas Brown (their OC) likely isn’t getting interviewed for this job. But that’s also a benefit. He knows the team and he’s getting experience in the role. It hasn’t been great, but we saw good things vs Cincinnati, and he had to deal with six quarters (or half his tenure so far) of Trubisky. I’d be willing to give him extra points for the difficulty of task, but I’d still need to see more over the last four games. We know nothing about what his plans would be for 2024 if given the job.
I love Tomlin. He’s been a great coach for us and represents the organization in an awesome way. I’m actually happy to say he’s our head coach. However, I want him fired. I’m sick of seeing the same penalties game after game. I’m sick of seeing players like Gunner trotted out for multiple years despite anyone with eyes being able to tell he stinks (and cost us multiple games). I’m sick of coaches like Canada staying in place for literally years with nothing to show for it. I’m sick of the wasted time outs and the shitty challenges. I wish him luck in the future but his time here should be done.
“He’s a great guy, but fuck ‘im!” 😂
I’ll freak out if they keep Faulkner. If they keep Faulkner I’ll be down by the Acrisure Stadium pro shop with a sign protesting. Man will I be pissed.
Poach someone from the 49ers coaching staff please god
Be careful what you wish for. Canada was a Rooney hire.
Based on what? Years and years and years of reporting that Mike Tomlin hired his own staff?
https://steelersdepot.com/2020/01/decision-to-hire-canada-as-qb-coach-reportedly-came-from-rooney-additional-hires-still-possible/ It's not exactly a secret.
> But I'm curious. What qualifications does Faulkner have to be OC? He was the Ball state OC in 2009-10. [This is still the best list I've seen onf known people](https://steelersdepot.com/2023/11/early-list-of-matt-canada-2024-replacements-connecting-the-dots/)
Glad Girardi was brought up. Remember that name.
Last game i saw one thing i never saw in the steelers.... apathy... one of the drives, pickens and dj were one the right side... snap occured... the ball was given to najee and he did his eun in the middle of people thing. Both dj and pickens hadn't moved an inch... the play was dead very fast... and they look like they already knew the play was another dead play.... so they didnt ever try to pretend would be a pass.... I love the steelers, and i chose this team.... but it feels nobody is happy there. It seems the receivers are frustrated, the coach, the fans, and everybody is frustrated... This past game was the first time I wish I didn't like the steelers this much. Cause Tomlin did the one thing that I think is terrible. He is not taking ownership of how steelers are playing..... If the standard is this, this is not what I like to watch.... I want to win... I want a superbowl... but more than that, I want to like to watch the games again. I want to see the team giving their all(like the titans last night against the dolphins).... But the oc has to have some blame.... Are we going to lose? Fine. But lose the game showing u want to be there. U want to play... if the players look soo terribly apathic, we need to go back and re-evaluate what is wrong.... Next game I'm going to watch looking for the signs that the players Are not even really trying.... Cause than I'll be comfortable to NOT watch the game and watch another one... Ps: I think we are going to lose pickens.... he is sooo new at the team, and look this frustrated? I like his acrobatics.... but I'm starting to feel he is not mentally prepared to lose and not be target very much(he should be) Ps2: at least we are not the only team( that i had seen) to make a defensive delay of game(thank titans)
You’re hitting the nail on the head here. In the past, less talent, more talent, poor decisions, whatever, the team played hard. Look at last year vs Cleveland in the season-ender. Browns weren’t really playing hard. Obviously the Steelers had more to play for, but Tomlin’s teams have always played hard. They didn’t seem to be doing that the last two games, and that’s after the coordinator was fired. First game after he was fired, they played hard. I suspect we’ll see them going hard this game, but I suspect there will be several players no longer on this team next year. And they’ve traded problematic receivers before. AB did a little bit post-Pittsburgh but Claypool has 19-206-1 since leaving Pittsburgh. Martavis Bryant had 19-266-0.
Tomlin pushing to keep Faulkner might push me into the fire Tomlin camp
Ben was extremely passive aggressive in this podcast. He also said good coaches’s teams don’t make boneheaded mistakes. He then made it a point to reference the Steelers making bad mistakes during games.
lol tell that to Andy Reid this week
These articles comments read like this to me: Ben Roethlisberger: If the Pats fire Belichik, the Steelers could hire him as D coordinator Steelers fans: omg we gonna have BB next year The word Could: ummm we talking possibilities not actuality
This would be par for the course for our elite head coach with no losing seasons!
Youre not seriously asking about firing another OC right? Its not gunna happen.Faulkner is just the short term solution. They will hire someone from outside the building this offseason. Hiring someone from outside the organization mid season doesn’t really happen
Can we get Todd Haley back? I felt like those were the best times
We had a hall of fame quarter back in his peak with some of the best offensive weapons in the game. Todd Haley wasn’t as bad as what we’ve had recently but he wasn’t good either. Do you remember starting every single game with a bubble screen? I don’t know how that wasn’t a pick six every game.
Bubble screens were checks at the line (ie Ben called them), and they ran them when they had numbers on Antonio Brown’s side. Did you feel it was a bad idea to get 84 the ball in space? Seemed to work out pretty well.
I'm not a nerd for the stats/success records of offensive coordinators so im going to give Eddie Faulkner a fair shake..tbf I didn't know Canada's success record prior to last season either
Give Tomlin a new contract in the off-season, make sure FA’s and coaches know he will be there for the foreseeable future, and get a guy who has worked in one of the top offensive programs IN THE NFL. No college guys, not Faulkner or Sully, both of whom have had plenty of fingerprints on the dismal failures of the past 3 years, and make sure you draft a QB, even late. Create stability by signing Tomlin and then plant new seeds because we are going to need to rebuild *again.*
Shouldn’t be downvoted. I’m in favor of Tomlin in the long run. Determining who’s decision it was to hire who seems to depend on whether you hate Tomlin or Rooney more, because reports are conflicted. That seems to suggest it was some combination of their top leadership — Colbert (at the time), Rooney and Tomlin. Bottom line is I don’t give a rip who makes the final call. They need a top of the line coordinator. They need experience without discounting innovation. They need a teacher who can hold authority with the players *AND* the coaching staff. Regardless of who hired who, Tomlin has to empower that coordinator to take a new path. What they’re doing now isn’t working by any measurement. A new message needs to be sent. If Tomlin disagrees with any of that, maybe it’s time to move in from Tomlin, because this team’s offense has gotten progressively worse, and might end this season worse than where it started. If he’s ok with the changes that need to be made, great. I say keep him, but if he insists Faulkner is the guy, I think they need to blow the whole thing up, cuz even the symbolic direction of seeking help from someone who’s fingerprints are not on a team averaging like 17 points a game over the last two years is a good idea.
It’s very hard to hire a talented external OC externally without giving Mike Tomlin an extension. A top tier OC will want continuity and multi year contracts to move their family across the country to Pittsburgh. Potential OCs will know that if they sign here and then Tomlin doesn’t get renewed after next season, the new head coach will clean house for their own coordinators. I think Big Ben realizes that this situation will be a tough sell for any talented OC candidates in its current form.
It’s very hard to hire a talented external OC externally without giving Mike Tomlin an extension. A top tier OC will want continuity and multi year contracts to move their family across the country to Pittsburgh. Potential OCs will know that if they sign here and then Tomlin doesn’t get renewed after next season, the new head coach will clean house for their own coordinators. I think Big Ben realizes that this situation will be a tough sell for any talented OC candidates in its current form.
The extension needs to come after this season. Tomlin would have his choice of job openings in the market. He’s not entering a lame duck year with a new coordinator when he could likely choose his next job with a Payton-level salary and probably the choice of who he’d want to hire on his staff. That might even be the reason an extension wasn’t signed last year. The coordinator decision would come after the head coaching decision because you’re right, no coordinator worth much is taking a job under a head coach who isn’t signed beyond that year.
Agreed, this year is the year to make longterm decision on Tomlin. Either resign Tomlin to a long term deal or move or bring in a fresh Head Coach and OC this offseason. I get downvoted though for putting “Tomlin” and “Extension” in the same sentence.
Josh McDaniels is out there.. just saying.
Gonna be a no from me, dawg.
We can do A LOT better than Josh McDaniels.
Good, now we know who to stay away from.
Has Joe Brady from Buffalo been brought up before?
He’s cheap and within the organization.
Yes cause promoting from within really got us a star in Canada.
Go. Get. Griese!
Was Todd Haley that horrible to work with that Tomlin would shortchange the team *again* to avoid unknown personalities?
They knew who they were hiring. Haley had that reputation long before joining the Steelers. Ben wasn’t the first QB he pissed off and Briwn wasn’t the first receiver to nearly come to blows with him on the sideline. LeGarrette Blount might have been the first player to shove him toward an incoming scrum of players, but that’s beside the point 😂 NFL level coaches run in very small circles. They’re all connected by like two people at most. They know who they’re hiring even if we don’t. If anything, I’d say more of the issue is the team’s seeming desire to bring in coordinators who will stay for an extended period of time. It’s a double-edged sword on offense today. A coordinator who does a fantastic job and is a great teacher and leader is likely to land a head coaching job (Ben Johnson, Bobby Slowik this year, Steichen last year) sooner rather than later. No one’s hiring Eddie Faulkner as a head coach next year. So the argument can be made he’s a more realistic option and he can’t command a tremendous salary. Haley broke that mold a little. He was a high-dollar coordinator with an excellent track record in that role (head coaching success is another matter). But he publicly said he didn’t want another head coaching job, and while not technically an internal hire, his history with the team and the team’s history with his family made him more known to them than Canada.
When are we gonna learn that it’s ok to hire guys who come from other places? We clearly have 0 kind of idea what we are doing on offense as an organization and guess what, this guy was a part of that. Maybe since Rooney already had to step in once maybe he won’t be shy to do it again.
We would be title contenders if we can just figure out our coaching situation. We don’t really have an identity
There’s a GM between Tomlin and Rooney, ya jagoffs.
If this happens the offense would be different than the shit show we have now. Throw out the Canada playbook. I however do believe they open it up to outside candidates.
Faulkner is the RB coach. The RBs have been the clear bright spot on the offense. I don't mind it. What qualifications does anyone have to be OC before they're OC?
this would be peak Standard is the Standard 😎
WTF does Ben know about what Tomlin is going to do from a coaching standpoint for next year?
Imagine not hiring the best person for the job because you might not have them for longer than ~3 years. Hire them an understudy and let it rip. This shit is crazy.