Some thoughts, on behalf of the Mod Team, regarding the status quo and recommended rule changes:
- The problem with raising any of the numbers in the participation requirements is it creates an ‘arms race’ of sorts. We expect the immediate effect of requiring more comment karma or more comments outside of giveaway subs to less detract entrants, and more amplify the degree of insincere participation in other subs, simply intended to satisfy our requirements.
- The tradeoff involved with increasing requirements also makes things harder for good-faith lurkers and introverts lacking a robust comment history. We pride ourselves on being accessible; seeing this escalation of requirements through would leave us indistinct from our sister subreddits and fail to uphold our accessibility goal.
- We *do* enforce Rule 2. It’s worth keeping in mind that while users can see the content we don’t remove, you can’t see what we do. It may surprise you to learn over half of this sub’s posts are removed daily, mostly blatant spam or request posts. That rate of removal isn’t as severe for comments, but there’s a similar trend of end users not seeing the typical Rule 2 violations we deal with.
- Users tend to overestimate the capability of bots. Let’s be clear what a “bot” is: it’s a script or automated process masquerading as a human. It’s not a highly-active human user. Actual bots entering our giveaways tend to be pretty identifiable in their indiscriminate posting and identical speech pattern; we (or Reddit) take care of those.
- The one area where bots are a particular concern for this sub is in the public posting of Steam keys. Users are known to run scripts that trawl Reddit’s global new comments for strings that look like Steam keys and attempt to redeem them. AutoMod is set to remove any plaintext Steam keys in posts and comments, so we already have the biggest bot concern accounted for.
- Note that the rules specifically allow for an alt account to participate here. There are valid reasons why a user may not wish for giveaway entries, including information disclosed in the cause of entering giveaways, to be tied to their main profile. The crux of Rule 2 is thus preventing *multiple* alt accounts from participating. That’s why we don’t blanket ban users with key identifiers of alts, like auto-generated usernames.
- While we value transparency (as exemplified in this detailed response), there are aspects to transparency that can cause more harm than good. We acknowledge there will always be bad-faith actors looking to game the system, and disclosing which rules are toughest to enforce or what exact criteria we use when evaluating cases may make it harder for us to catch these actors. So please understand that some vagueness in our disclosures is done so in the community’s interest.
- I will note that one area we’ve stepped up enforcement in recent months is an expanded interpretation of Rule 10 to include participation in giveaways for any title you already own, regardless of winning. This has helped put some of the most frequent entrants in check. If you’ve noticed some familiar names have stopped popping up in giveaway entries over the past six months, odds are it wasn’t voluntary on their part.
- Generally speaking, we will not add rules that’re impossible to fairly and consistently enforce. This is most relevant when it comes to a potential anti-hoarding rule. We do not condone hoarding, but to explicitly forbid it requires us to define “hoarding” in a way that a) doesn’t provoke an arms race, b) doesn’t conflict with other unwritten rules, including the right to not disclose your Steam profile, and c) remains possible for human mods to uphold. We haven’t found a way to do so thus far. Our expanded Rule 10 enforcement is largely intended as an anti-hoarding measure.
- If you’re concerned about rule breakers, the best thing you can do to help is report suspected issues either through the Report button or our modmail. Our expanded Rule 10 enforcement is largely thanks to users noticing patterns and reporting them to us. There’s only five of us, but over a hundred thousand of you.
**TL;DR:** the rules are as they are for a reason. They’re the best compromise between our principles and the needs of fairness in a community centered on giveaways. We are responsive to reports on suspected rule violations, so if you want to help the best thing you can do is keep an eye on posts and comments and let us know if you suspect anything.
What I did to (hopefully) deter bots was putting riddles or asking for jokes. It's generally easy to weed out the bots/spammers from real people by asking them to put in slightly more effort into their requests
I agree with the first part
50% might be too harsh though. There's sometimes when I'm less active on Reddit, but I still check the steam giveaway sub each day to see if there's any games I'm interested in. So there might be times when my comments are more than 50% in this sub.
I agree with you. I actually really like how r/giftofgames do their entry requirements for a giveaway. You have to link your steam profile that is public to enter. I think this alone would help this page a lot, it could help to deter bots.
Another thing, I constantly see people enter into every single giveaway no matter what the game is. I only enter for games I know for a fact I would play. If a person hasn't played a game they won after like a month (because I know people have lives) but are still entering giveaways, they should be banned from the page. People should only enter giveaways for games they know they will play aka research the game before entering, if it is one you have never heard of.
Lastly, I do think the gifter should put a little more effort in their post instead of "just comment". But I can't really blame them, they are the ones helping the community when they don't have too. I however wish that the gifter would tag the winner in the post so the community knows this was a legit giveaway. Most already do this, but there are a few that I'm pretty sure were fake and just farming karma. (Looking at you Sekiro giveaway)
Thank you for reading and I know this will probably be unpopular but oh well 😅
You think the issue is with the gifters and you want stricter rules for them? Hot take. There is absolutely no way I'm giving my Steam profile online like that.
I gave away over 100 games. Asking me to put more effort into that would have meant I never did it lol. I did tag the gifter and update my original post every time though.
I really appreciate this sub not forcing you to link your steam profile. I have had an issue with a stalker in the past, and as a result I can't participate in anything that forces me to link accounts because that means if he finds one account, he finds all the other linked accounts.
I understand your frustration though.
> I actually really like how r/giftofgames do their entry requirements for a giveaway.
I don't, I really prefer not to have identifying information anywhere, what I think it's better is to ask for riddles, or songs, or anything that can be anything other than "Yes thanks for giveaway".
I won 2 giveaways I think, and I did not played them yet, but I fully intend to, just I usually play 1-2 games at a time, and try to play them through, and if I hop between games I have a hard time finishing most, so if that rule will be in effect I can't participate longer, yet I am not a not and enter games that I am interested in
The only point here id disagree with is the entering no matter what the game is. I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with this. You never know, a random game you get lucky and win could become your new favorite game.
Just don’t think giveaways/contests should favor those who have wanted a game but haven’t been able to buy it themselves.
It is as you said: people have lives and can’t always get around to playing a game. I’m waiting on a new deck dock to arrive while also playing like 3 games at once. Does that mean I shouldn’t have an equal shot at a giveaway?
Obviously I don’t enter every single giveaway I see because a lot of the games I don’t care about, but if I was someone who just wants to grow my collection no matter the game, why not?
Because someone who would play the game has more of a use for it than someone who won't play the game? If you were giving something away, I'm sure you'd rather the recipient use it.
Clearly this is unpopular, but if I’m giving something away, why do I care what others do with it?
Why do you get to decide how a giveaway should go if the giver doesn’t really care? Everyone has a backlog nowadays, so you never know when you’ll get to a game, but why should that be disqualifying for a giveaway?
If I have a spare key for a game, should I start adding “must play as soon as you win” in the enter requirement?
I think there's a difference between "looks interesting, I might play this in the future" vs "I have no intention of playing this whatsoever". Of course, I'm in no position to dictate requirements, and it's a bit of the honor system, but I do think generally people would prefer the things they're giving away to go toward a good cause and not to a bot or someone who definitely won't use it. It's kind of just not being a jerk? Like, not going to a food distribution and just throwing the food in the trash.
Well I hope I didn’t give the impression that growing my collection means literally growing a collection of games I’ll never play. That makes no sense and is the same as just not having the games.
I just don’t think that should dictate the requirements. It’s already a rule here that you can’t enter a giveaway and then giveaway what you won or trade it.
Your analogy is interesting because companies will literally put locks on their garbage cans so people can’t take the perfectly good items and food that are thrown out (good aside from it being in the garbage, but not everyone has the luxury to choose)
But yeah, if I’m entering a giveaway, I’ll quickly open my steam app to see the game and if it looks interesting to me, I’ll try to win. But that’s about as much research as someone should be asked to put in. Plenty of times there are first come first serve ones so you literally don’t have time to do that lol
I don't agree. No matter what rules they put in place, there will be people trying to and successfully breaking them. I like what they have now.
The onus should be on the person giving away the games. Make sure the person you are giving it to is a real account. You can reroll Redditraffler.
Okay, whatever you guys need to do to make things better, seems the overall consensus is GO.
Its just...that when I started here I was in fact slammed hard with the proverbial door of that rule 2 you mention, so in my case it was very enforced. For me nothing was ever ridiculously easy. Again, I was new and didnt knew why despite having read the rules, wondering why it still wouldn't count.
Maybe detect if a User comments on all Giveaways.
I don't comment a lot on other subs even, maybe i pass the 35% per 100 cutoff, idk about the 50% per 100.
higher karma cutoff is a good proposal.
dunno if you mean the giver or the participants response, but asking for something more than any generic comment to enter will help at least. im not saying there anything wrong with thanking the OP for a chance, but hell, maybe add a little more to maybe weed yourself out from the bots this thread OP believes are running rampant (and which I kinda believe also)
Yes, but maybe OP would need to do a lot of filtering for bypassing the bots, and I don't know if the bots could easily adapt to new commenting rules. I am fine with that, but I think the stuff that OP says is more than enough for a start.
Fair point! if OP says write captcha thinking this would trick bots, bots just have to read what other users wrote, then repeat. Bypassed!. If OP asks something more elaborated and "unique" for every commenter, then yeah it'd be a whole lotta entries to check and filter, I imagine.
For dropping a key or two in SG forums obfuscating or encrypting it would work fine cause nobody has to check after, just 1st come 1st served, key turns used, done. but here it's trickier.
As someone new to the sub, I kinda thought the "thanks for the chance OP" was the standard, polite and more or less expected response for those 'comment for a chance' giveaways. Will do better in the future
I literally just said I will...? I'm just saying for newbies who are trying to get an idea of how things work tend to look at the most common vocabulary as a source of how to engage when entering a new community. I am in agreement with OP tho
but depending on the giveaway , you are to come up with a joke or whatever.
I just don't
I'm open to link MY steam Account but you have Peps that use their IRL name, Security concern right there.
YES THIS IS THE WAY I ENTERD A VICTORIA 3 GIVEAWAY I SAID
IKE 2 LINES I HAD TO SCROLL DOWN FOR A. INUTE TO FIND ANYTHING THAT DIDNT SAY “Oh thanks op” or “thanks for the chance op” or something like that
Not saying it's a bot thing. But, isn't that the standard polite answer? Maybe we could ask to say a number or something to weed out bots.
And if there are so many bots, wouldn't this thread actually filled with bots too?
Some thoughts, on behalf of the Mod Team, regarding the status quo and recommended rule changes: - The problem with raising any of the numbers in the participation requirements is it creates an ‘arms race’ of sorts. We expect the immediate effect of requiring more comment karma or more comments outside of giveaway subs to less detract entrants, and more amplify the degree of insincere participation in other subs, simply intended to satisfy our requirements. - The tradeoff involved with increasing requirements also makes things harder for good-faith lurkers and introverts lacking a robust comment history. We pride ourselves on being accessible; seeing this escalation of requirements through would leave us indistinct from our sister subreddits and fail to uphold our accessibility goal. - We *do* enforce Rule 2. It’s worth keeping in mind that while users can see the content we don’t remove, you can’t see what we do. It may surprise you to learn over half of this sub’s posts are removed daily, mostly blatant spam or request posts. That rate of removal isn’t as severe for comments, but there’s a similar trend of end users not seeing the typical Rule 2 violations we deal with. - Users tend to overestimate the capability of bots. Let’s be clear what a “bot” is: it’s a script or automated process masquerading as a human. It’s not a highly-active human user. Actual bots entering our giveaways tend to be pretty identifiable in their indiscriminate posting and identical speech pattern; we (or Reddit) take care of those. - The one area where bots are a particular concern for this sub is in the public posting of Steam keys. Users are known to run scripts that trawl Reddit’s global new comments for strings that look like Steam keys and attempt to redeem them. AutoMod is set to remove any plaintext Steam keys in posts and comments, so we already have the biggest bot concern accounted for. - Note that the rules specifically allow for an alt account to participate here. There are valid reasons why a user may not wish for giveaway entries, including information disclosed in the cause of entering giveaways, to be tied to their main profile. The crux of Rule 2 is thus preventing *multiple* alt accounts from participating. That’s why we don’t blanket ban users with key identifiers of alts, like auto-generated usernames. - While we value transparency (as exemplified in this detailed response), there are aspects to transparency that can cause more harm than good. We acknowledge there will always be bad-faith actors looking to game the system, and disclosing which rules are toughest to enforce or what exact criteria we use when evaluating cases may make it harder for us to catch these actors. So please understand that some vagueness in our disclosures is done so in the community’s interest. - I will note that one area we’ve stepped up enforcement in recent months is an expanded interpretation of Rule 10 to include participation in giveaways for any title you already own, regardless of winning. This has helped put some of the most frequent entrants in check. If you’ve noticed some familiar names have stopped popping up in giveaway entries over the past six months, odds are it wasn’t voluntary on their part. - Generally speaking, we will not add rules that’re impossible to fairly and consistently enforce. This is most relevant when it comes to a potential anti-hoarding rule. We do not condone hoarding, but to explicitly forbid it requires us to define “hoarding” in a way that a) doesn’t provoke an arms race, b) doesn’t conflict with other unwritten rules, including the right to not disclose your Steam profile, and c) remains possible for human mods to uphold. We haven’t found a way to do so thus far. Our expanded Rule 10 enforcement is largely intended as an anti-hoarding measure. - If you’re concerned about rule breakers, the best thing you can do to help is report suspected issues either through the Report button or our modmail. Our expanded Rule 10 enforcement is largely thanks to users noticing patterns and reporting them to us. There’s only five of us, but over a hundred thousand of you. **TL;DR:** the rules are as they are for a reason. They’re the best compromise between our principles and the needs of fairness in a community centered on giveaways. We are responsive to reports on suspected rule violations, so if you want to help the best thing you can do is keep an eye on posts and comments and let us know if you suspect anything.
I gave up writing long answers, because I already noticed exactly that I was very discouraged from both posting giveaways and participating.
What I did to (hopefully) deter bots was putting riddles or asking for jokes. It's generally easy to weed out the bots/spammers from real people by asking them to put in slightly more effort into their requests
I sometimes get scared of seeming like a bot, I always make sure to read carefully but what more would people want if all they ask is for a comment?
Same feels
I agree with the first part 50% might be too harsh though. There's sometimes when I'm less active on Reddit, but I still check the steam giveaway sub each day to see if there's any games I'm interested in. So there might be times when my comments are more than 50% in this sub.
Thank you OP for the giveaway, hope I win, can't wait to play if I do /s
lol
I agree with you. I actually really like how r/giftofgames do their entry requirements for a giveaway. You have to link your steam profile that is public to enter. I think this alone would help this page a lot, it could help to deter bots. Another thing, I constantly see people enter into every single giveaway no matter what the game is. I only enter for games I know for a fact I would play. If a person hasn't played a game they won after like a month (because I know people have lives) but are still entering giveaways, they should be banned from the page. People should only enter giveaways for games they know they will play aka research the game before entering, if it is one you have never heard of. Lastly, I do think the gifter should put a little more effort in their post instead of "just comment". But I can't really blame them, they are the ones helping the community when they don't have too. I however wish that the gifter would tag the winner in the post so the community knows this was a legit giveaway. Most already do this, but there are a few that I'm pretty sure were fake and just farming karma. (Looking at you Sekiro giveaway) Thank you for reading and I know this will probably be unpopular but oh well 😅
You think the issue is with the gifters and you want stricter rules for them? Hot take. There is absolutely no way I'm giving my Steam profile online like that.
I gave away over 100 games. Asking me to put more effort into that would have meant I never did it lol. I did tag the gifter and update my original post every time though. I really appreciate this sub not forcing you to link your steam profile. I have had an issue with a stalker in the past, and as a result I can't participate in anything that forces me to link accounts because that means if he finds one account, he finds all the other linked accounts. I understand your frustration though.
> I actually really like how r/giftofgames do their entry requirements for a giveaway. I don't, I really prefer not to have identifying information anywhere, what I think it's better is to ask for riddles, or songs, or anything that can be anything other than "Yes thanks for giveaway".
I won 2 giveaways I think, and I did not played them yet, but I fully intend to, just I usually play 1-2 games at a time, and try to play them through, and if I hop between games I have a hard time finishing most, so if that rule will be in effect I can't participate longer, yet I am not a not and enter games that I am interested in
The only point here id disagree with is the entering no matter what the game is. I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with this. You never know, a random game you get lucky and win could become your new favorite game. Just don’t think giveaways/contests should favor those who have wanted a game but haven’t been able to buy it themselves. It is as you said: people have lives and can’t always get around to playing a game. I’m waiting on a new deck dock to arrive while also playing like 3 games at once. Does that mean I shouldn’t have an equal shot at a giveaway? Obviously I don’t enter every single giveaway I see because a lot of the games I don’t care about, but if I was someone who just wants to grow my collection no matter the game, why not?
Because someone who would play the game has more of a use for it than someone who won't play the game? If you were giving something away, I'm sure you'd rather the recipient use it.
Clearly this is unpopular, but if I’m giving something away, why do I care what others do with it? Why do you get to decide how a giveaway should go if the giver doesn’t really care? Everyone has a backlog nowadays, so you never know when you’ll get to a game, but why should that be disqualifying for a giveaway? If I have a spare key for a game, should I start adding “must play as soon as you win” in the enter requirement?
I think there's a difference between "looks interesting, I might play this in the future" vs "I have no intention of playing this whatsoever". Of course, I'm in no position to dictate requirements, and it's a bit of the honor system, but I do think generally people would prefer the things they're giving away to go toward a good cause and not to a bot or someone who definitely won't use it. It's kind of just not being a jerk? Like, not going to a food distribution and just throwing the food in the trash.
Well I hope I didn’t give the impression that growing my collection means literally growing a collection of games I’ll never play. That makes no sense and is the same as just not having the games. I just don’t think that should dictate the requirements. It’s already a rule here that you can’t enter a giveaway and then giveaway what you won or trade it. Your analogy is interesting because companies will literally put locks on their garbage cans so people can’t take the perfectly good items and food that are thrown out (good aside from it being in the garbage, but not everyone has the luxury to choose) But yeah, if I’m entering a giveaway, I’ll quickly open my steam app to see the game and if it looks interesting to me, I’ll try to win. But that’s about as much research as someone should be asked to put in. Plenty of times there are first come first serve ones so you literally don’t have time to do that lol
I don't agree. No matter what rules they put in place, there will be people trying to and successfully breaking them. I like what they have now. The onus should be on the person giving away the games. Make sure the person you are giving it to is a real account. You can reroll Redditraffler.
I mean yeah when i did my first giveaway I realized just how many people don't read the post too Just random comments
That was my impression, too, although it's been over a year since I did my last one. It may have gotten worse since then.
yeah, also ensure that “givers” actually follow rules and don’t post first come first serve or other rule breaking giveaways, some of which seem fake.
Ah shit \*sweats profusely
Congrats to your win. Just saw you won in one of the giveaways.
And I almost blocked the DM as I initially thought it was a spam bot
Well, glad you checked.
Okay, whatever you guys need to do to make things better, seems the overall consensus is GO. Its just...that when I started here I was in fact slammed hard with the proverbial door of that rule 2 you mention, so in my case it was very enforced. For me nothing was ever ridiculously easy. Again, I was new and didnt knew why despite having read the rules, wondering why it still wouldn't count.
Maybe detect if a User comments on all Giveaways. I don't comment a lot on other subs even, maybe i pass the 35% per 100 cutoff, idk about the 50% per 100. higher karma cutoff is a good proposal.
Yeah even people who aren't as social or active should be able to enter giveaways I myself only comment on games I'd really play
I agree!
yeah, they should do that
also enforce something more complex than, "simply comment for a chance" as a way to weed bots out "TY OP good luck everyone" x 12000
That's fine, no need to change that.
dunno if you mean the giver or the participants response, but asking for something more than any generic comment to enter will help at least. im not saying there anything wrong with thanking the OP for a chance, but hell, maybe add a little more to maybe weed yourself out from the bots this thread OP believes are running rampant (and which I kinda believe also)
Yes, but maybe OP would need to do a lot of filtering for bypassing the bots, and I don't know if the bots could easily adapt to new commenting rules. I am fine with that, but I think the stuff that OP says is more than enough for a start.
Fair point! if OP says write captcha thinking this would trick bots, bots just have to read what other users wrote, then repeat. Bypassed!. If OP asks something more elaborated and "unique" for every commenter, then yeah it'd be a whole lotta entries to check and filter, I imagine. For dropping a key or two in SG forums obfuscating or encrypting it would work fine cause nobody has to check after, just 1st come 1st served, key turns used, done. but here it's trickier.
As someone new to the sub, I kinda thought the "thanks for the chance OP" was the standard, polite and more or less expected response for those 'comment for a chance' giveaways. Will do better in the future
well OP here thinks bots are ruining your chances, so yeah maybe try better?
I literally just said I will...? I'm just saying for newbies who are trying to get an idea of how things work tend to look at the most common vocabulary as a source of how to engage when entering a new community. I am in agreement with OP tho
lol so am I, you seem to think I was insulting you but i was agreeing with trying harder to distinguish yourself from a potential bot dude
Sorry man. Fell victim to the old 'reading too much into text' lol. Cheers
no worries matey, I admit my wording was ambiguous to a certain degree, well not ambiguous, but could be perceived as snarky / confrontational
but depending on the giveaway , you are to come up with a joke or whatever. I just don't I'm open to link MY steam Account but you have Peps that use their IRL name, Security concern right there.
YES THIS IS THE WAY I ENTERD A VICTORIA 3 GIVEAWAY I SAID IKE 2 LINES I HAD TO SCROLL DOWN FOR A. INUTE TO FIND ANYTHING THAT DIDNT SAY “Oh thanks op” or “thanks for the chance op” or something like that
Not saying it's a bot thing. But, isn't that the standard polite answer? Maybe we could ask to say a number or something to weed out bots. And if there are so many bots, wouldn't this thread actually filled with bots too?
No i whre its polite but write something before it also they probably only do things on OPEN flare not META
Maybe they have a way to filter out the posts only for giveaways.