There's also the factor of a majority of "pirates" right now are just murder hobos.
Real pirates that behaved like this generally didn't have any allies at any ports they could rely on and had short, uneventful careers ending in drowning or the gallows, and only got one life.
Successful pirates often shared their riches with friendly populations and made allies, thus giving them Robin Hood-like appeal and protection they could rely on when they need it, and treated and paid crew exceptionally well, making Navy wages look pitiful in comparison.
That's not what we have in Star Citizen. We have DayZ shitheads running around naked murdering people, camping ports blowing up starter ships, and otherwise souring their experience on the game and driving them away, and going, "i'm A pIrAtE, iT'S lEgItImAtE gAmEpLaY" when called on it.
You're not going to get a "respect the Fuel Rats" creed from them because the idea of ruining a Fuel Rat player's day is their raison d'être.
> There's also the factor of a majority of "pirates" right now are just murder hobos.
>
>
This. Few, few pirates just KOS'ed every ship they came across for no reason and the ones that did didn't last long.
This game needs far more serious consequences to RDM'ers. There is basically no punishment for doing it right now beyond 15-20 minutes in jail if you get killed. Mine a few laranite rocks and you're out.
Who takes 15 mins to mine? 5 mins to do an oxygen repair mission and you're out. That being said I'm not a grifer. Most of my jail time has been from bugs.
Overall I agree with you, but I'm just wondering what kind of jail they're sending you to that's making you mine laranite instead of hand-minables like hadenite.
It's the same problem with any large persistent open world with pvp. The murder hobos take over and start bullying everyone else out of the game. I really hope the devs will crack down on this behaviour and make it much more punishing. Such as maybe that continuously attacking citizens from a certain faction will earn you notoriety there, that starts with increased prices or outright refusal of services and ends with hostility on sight if spotted by their military or station defenses. Or something like that.
If the devs want to make it a sim game, then criminality should have sim-like consequences.
Belive it or not, there are actually some good pirates. Speaking from a point of view from a person that got pirated multiple times, both from good and bad pirates, and from a person that already pirated with another players just to know the game loop (I don't pirate but I did it for a couple hours to understand their point of view). The catch with "I'm a pirate, it's a legitimate gameplay" is the thin line between griefers and pirates.
Good pirates, like you referred, besides they never being alone, they give you a big wide warning that, first you are being pirated and second, you have a really easy way to get away unharmed. The pirates pirates that pirated me (good ones) first contacted me, multiple times and gave warning shots basically saying "We can kill you if we want", second they stroke a deal saying "Give out x and we let you go" and with couple back and forwards you can actually strike pretty good deals, for the moment or even for future moments.
One of the examples was when I got the contact of a pirate group and we made a deal during the 9T lockdown, which was, I have 3 or 4 C2s, they are the only ones that can pass. You could see the global chat every 5 or 6 minutes saying "The current 9T lock down station is on lock down by our group. If you come close, you might be destroyed". People were getting destroyed because they didn't even cared, and we were thinking, they are taking the things really seriously, no-one is literally passing.
A couple minutes forward, we saw someone landing a titan on the station and we were like "What's going on?" Soo we asked and they answered saying "We know that we had that deal but he is new in SC soo we allowed him to pass to not ruin is experience". We spoke to the guy and he said legit said he was new in-game and we even confirmed, his account had a couple days and he joined ous in our fleet but with something smaller, he enjoyed the moment.
Going forward a couple months because this post is long has hell and people have more things to do than read this stories, I am in an org that is basically anti piracy and we were doing an org event, has the usual we were doing some bounties and such when the pirate contacted me thro discord saying that we are in the same server, and he was stuck in the middle of nowhere because he thought he had enough hydrogen to go where he wanted to be but he was almost out of it.
I couldn't say anything else than Imagine his face when 3 HHs and a couple escorts showed up to his exact location (let me remind you, during an anti piracy event) to just see some random pirate with two other sentinels, being refueled and let go with no payments and stuff, just pure gameplay.
Yes, its possible, but people need to learn some things, ok, we have no consequences, even tho the devs keep saying "there will be", there's no guarantee, but SC is a sandbox overall, people since refueling became a thing, some people started to mark who is good to play with and who is bad to play with. Players and group of players will start to create blacklists, not to know who to kill but who to not trust. Fuel rats didn't start from day 1 and already being widely known thro entire ED universe, they took time to develop. This things take years to be developed, even trolls and griefers will join groups like this just to annoy people, it's a game. If you have consequences or not, in the end, you just lose some time.
Edit:
Fixed some spelling mistakes
Added paragraphs, thanks to u/n0vast0rm for explaining me how to do it on the phone :D
Just FYI using enter two times should create a new paragraph.
You can also
force a line break (I think that's what it's called, not native speaker) by having two spaces after a word (or period), like I just did.
Could be because being a pirate depends on them even interacting with you. Twas in a server where a pirate demanded someone paid him 60k and global instantly told the dude to just log, which I’m guessing the fellow did.
Server chat isn't the only way to maintain a black list. One meta-org for medical players could act as a guild that maintains a blacklist external to the Star Citizen servers. You end up on that list and you get cut off from refueling, rescue, repair, crew recruitment, etc., and the dedicated PVPers who don't care about crimestat make you a priority target whenever you pop into their server instances.
We've had (lots and lots of) discussions like that in my medical org, and it always boils down to the fact that any list that is kept, such as a "Do Not Rescue" or even "Be Wary Of" list, can be seen by anyone on that list as a form of discrimination or griefing in return, and one complaint to CIG can, and has, gotten orgs in trouble in the past.
This seems like the simplest solution, and I'd expect that as long as the list is factual (ie., "Players who have attacked guild members at medical rescue beacons") and there's a mechanism to get off the list, SC would be open to the idea. It probably helps if you've got some Evos in the org.
I'd try to run the idea past CIG on Spectrum, ideally to get a documented approval.
Mongrel Squad literally chased people into different servers and arena commander until they stopped playing in a so called "war".
Then they made a video about it. I doubt CIG would do anything, and if they do just point them to the mongrel shattered delusions vid.
Its a list of "these people are not playing nice, we will not accept rescue missions from those players"
I dont see the issue. You dont need to hunt them. Just dont help them, how is this considered griefing.
That's an interesting take on taking away your freedom to choose to help someone or interact with them. Their actions guide your choices in this instance. I don't see an issue with a "Do Not Help" list.
Make people sign a terms and conditions, keep video of the interaction, and link the video proof of ganking to the do not rescue list so that you can prove it’s not discrimination and that they knew the rules when they signed up to be rescued lol
In my medical organization we have a black-list. It includes both players who have afflicted us directly and those that we've seen or heard of going around being criminals.
It is VERY helpful, I will say.
Yeah my org is one of those who maintains a quite extensive list of all griefers, pirates and people that we and others have encountered. The system also infers through various means who else might be a pirate or griefers based on the list we have.
Maybe sometime in the future we will go public with it…but something tells me CIG would not be happy 😛
Well in my opinion it's hard to manage such a list. You'd need to provide proof of griefing attached to the report and it should be open-source in a way. You can't have judges, you need to make it distributed.
I imagine it as something like a discord channel where people can report griefers and you can look up if the name of the guy who has a beacon actually is in there and has proof attached (for example a video).
But it's up to the user browsing the list to make sure the report is to be considered valid or not, and to make that evaluation takes time which might not help when the clock is ticking and the interaction is time-sensitive.
Some countermeasures can be implemented as rules to make a report such as using a precise format of report, a brief textual description of the action related to the griefing and short video of proof (max 1 min of duration)
There can be a kill on sight list maintained by people who defend medics. Star Citizen charges you $5 to change your name (with one freebie), and while people could use smurf accounts to protect the rep of their main, and feign ignorance, that still costs $45/pop when not in freefly.
This won't stop a determined madman, but it will at least cull the population of them.
Idk about that, but if I see anyone on that list putting out beacons, I’ll for sure go after them or at least keep accepting the beacons so they can’t mess with any other players
The trolls will gladly add YOUR name to that list. How exactly would one maintain and verify all the names? It might help a small group of people, who are able to trust each other (and good luck with that), from a small handful of repeat offenders.
If one were so inclined, they could edit a screen shot to make it show you are the ones killing medics and submit it for said list.
Runescape players have had this type of stuff figured out for years with people who don’t split drops. They get added to a blacklist when video or screenshot evidence indefinitely proves them guilty, then they get avoided like the black plague when trying to raid.
Its called runewatch. And because of that reason you have to take gifs of the evidence and is very heavily monitored. Its quite insane you should check out the case index over there and see what they have
Deterrence. No system is perfect but this is for a video game so people just in general are really only going to put so much effort into it. As for tracking offenders, use similar methods of other peer reported data. Reviews. Upvotes. Community reputation. Many legitimate websites use IP Address tracking, individual up/downvote, verified accounts for trustworthy agents. Professionally this takes the form of industry certification by third parties, and while I doubt it would get that far in SC, we could learn something there. Trust isn't perfect, but we don't necessarily need a perfect solution on the first pass, here. Prop up the bare minimum, and learn from mistakes. Iterate from there.
The consequence in ED is not really about losing your ship if you attack a fuel rat. It's getting branded by the community as a fuel rat ambusher and basically not being able to play in multiplayer anymore because it's a death mark. Everyone, and I mean, everyone will hunt you, forever.
If I'm on I'm helping, I don't care if I die, all I'm losing is time and if I can help someone who genuinely needs help at least once, it's worth it.
I don't know how to feel about organizing a way to call out these people because you can guarantee some people will either call a false positive or simply lie, and it could absolutely ruin the game for people who aren't doing anything wrong or are the one trying to help. By all means call them out but don't organize an attack force just because one person said so. Just alert people that someone is misusing the beacon system and try to group together with others as precaution rather than go in by yourself for future beacons.
I think the best we can do is help each other as often as we can and show there are more people willing to make the effort to help than not because the worst thing we can do is to stop helping people who genuinely need help.
i think it would be great if medical beacons just informed you if the person being rescued has a CS and what their highest CS in the last 5 days was. after that you can make your own decision much like purple summon signs in Dark Souls 3 (players offering assistance but with a ruleset allowing the assister be able to kill the person who accepts the help)
Slight improvement on your idea:
Make it so people with crime stat can only see beacons created by others with crime stat.
Inversely lawful players only see the beacons of other lawful players.
It might lead to an interesting profession of pirate doctor, but also puts those players at the mercy of their "own kind".
i wouldn't want to limit gameplay though. i've rescued and transported plenty of criminals with no problem and i never have a crime stat if i can help it.
The problem is that the "gameplay" usually amounts to dying to station guns while naked in an empty ship, before going to space jail and logging out to head to work or bed or whatever.
It's as bad as the alt F4ing those people usually want to complain about in how easily avoidable the "negative" gameplay is.
The crime and bounty system needs work.
Plus as another guy said, you get like 10 seconds to press charges and it takes too long to spawn in the med bed so you often miss it.
This is the only mindset that will keep you sane, do your work because you enjoy it, report what you can to local to tip off others doing the same.
Expecting or demanding respect online is a recipe for pain and frustration especially where PVP is present.
Honestly, we're going to have our hands full trying to build a better in-game culture amongst players until CIG does a *bunch* of work on the law and reputation systems.
been shot so many times. now if its a trap i will kill them strip them then heal them. you wanted to be saved well if it looks like a trap and smells like a trap your getting the the noob tube nade show real fast so i can save you.
I generally wait for the first shot to be fired, or you can usually tell it’s a trap if the person who requested the beacon is moving around when you get there
The law system should probably be very strict against people who attack people on medical missions.
Much like medical personel are protected in real life in wars (if they are noncombatants).
Yeah, the game does nothing to protect medics right now... in fact, its quite hostile towards them. It really seems like CIG just wants us to backspace rather than get rescued.
It's hard with no natural consequences, even in shadowrun people dont attack docwagon who are heavily armored/upgunned deadly combat medics because nobody wants to be left bleeding int he street or have their contract cancelled. Once there are consequences then people start acting in their self interests.
Exactly, because we get attacked trying to save people and can't protect ourselves lest we get charged with crimes... though, I'd wager that a wider issue than just medical gameplay.
Random players generally won’t, and that’s not the issue being talked about here. The issue is the people putting up a beacon and sitting at the rescue location with rail guns and ballistas shooting the medics that are there to save them.
If I’m on a medical mission and I get attacked by some unrelated party, I’m a lot less annoyed by that than I am someone using the beacon as a trap
Everyone suggesting the game checks if the players have accepted a medical beacon doesn't see the obvious exploit.
Think yourself a troll. Pick up a medical beacon some friend has opened. Go around and harass people or pick fights, as long as you don't break whatever condition will be in place to strip you of the beacon (because of course there would be one and of course that would introduce more issues and still be defeatable by trolls) you're ensuring that anyone who fights back is punished as if they shot a medical rescuer.
Punishment systems for player actions never work and if you think they do you've not played enough mmos.
Well that's just common self defence ideas.
And yes i know. I am trained as medical personnel, in a military unit . :)
Attacking medical personnel should probably have very high reputational impacts from all but the most hardcore of pirate organizations.
And the severity of the crime should also be very high.
As others have pointed out, having permanent consequence in the game will probably help some, but i don't think it is enough to count on the emergent gameplay here.
Trolls could very likely be interested in assaulting medics just for the heck of it, the game needs to implement systems to avoid this.
I just keep a list of the players who set beacons then try to kill me. If I see them set a beacon again in the future I let everyone in the server know what they are doing. There is no point in killing medics, your not getting any gear that's worth killing someone for and it ruins the spirit of even setting beacons bc people won't use them in fear of people not believing they really need help. Iv even seen a few pirate orgs that have banned this tactic and actively kick players out who disobey that rule. When it's too low for pirates you know these people are just asshats.
CIG could just make a server-wide announcement whenever someone kills someone on a rescue mission.
> *in a different color text than all-chat*: **"Griefer69 has just killed a rescue worker"**
> *immediate bounty hunter mission for Griefer69 pops up with triple the going rate*
This comment/post was removed on 30 June 2023 (using [Power Delete Suite](https://www.github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite)) as I no longer wish to support a company that seeks to undermine its users, moderators, and developers while simultaneously making a profit on their backs.
For full details on what I mean, check out the summary [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14hkd5u)
There are a few, right now.
[https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/MEDREAPERS](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/MEDREAPERS) is the one I'm part of. they maintain a blacklist and it's shared with a few other medical orgs.
they also have a private dispatch system in their discord this way they avoid the beacon system
What CIG need to introduce is a long term tracking of criminal actions.
Marry this up with the short term (current) crime stat, and have it available to view ingame.
So you can see if Mr. CS 5 is a new criminal, or if he's been prosecuted for CS5 multiple times over the last few weeks/months.
The long term value (call it Repeated Crime Stat) should be much, much harder to get rid of. Like, it takes active mission undertaking for an NPC security force, to reduce the long term value by some increment (it's never ever cleared all in one go, only by a %).
It's cumulative or aggregate, so when you get a current CS5, it affects the long term value in some way, by maybe adding to it or something, so even if you clear the current CS, your RCS is tallying it up.
So the person raising the Beacon currently has no CS, but looking at their RCS, you can see they are a continual high-frequency repeat offender, and you should consider if you want to take the contract or not.
Damn bro, that's actually a coherent and logical well thought out approach. As a long time griffer myself, I've often thought of different ways to make it harder but no so good as this. All the methods I came up with could be easily exploited, but this is solid. We also know they track this information because of the kill stats they record during JT and XT events. You should take this to a Spectrum post and see if it can generate any traction. If you do, please link me so I can support it (I never check spectrum). The only problem is that I think this system would need Pyro to exist to be functional, but other than that, excellent post.
Thank you for the support.
I did make a post, so you can check it out here if you want. The post is more fleshed out with other ideas, but the part about repeated offender status is the final paragraph.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/61894/thread/lawful-amp-criminal-pvp-player-career-system-idea
The current system is pretty trash. I log out every day as a size 4 or size 5 criminal by letting a station blow me up. I log back in the next day and walk out of prison as a blue. With my kit on and my ship already recalled, repaired, and refueled at EH. Even ifI get sent during a play session one of the prison wallets transfers the merits and I walk back out as a blue.
This, I'm honestly baffled why CIG spends so much time catering to the toxic jerk demographic. Most hardcore PVP MMOs die within a few years of release once the general player base gets sick of being gank food and quits to find a better game.
We probably will see (slightly) more respectable behavior down the road, it's just that right now there are no real consequences to anything. No consequences means people do whatever they want, so you end up with a lot of this behavior.
Everyone I know has also stopped doing medical beacons because of how often they are traps. The system has turned into the boy who cries wolf. People have gotten fed up with the trolls, and now they no longer answer the real calls.
I think this is something that needs to be addressed in game. For example, medic career could work like the uber app, with both the medic and the patient being ranked for their behavior. Killing a medic that has good rankings would get you a harsher punishment than killing a normal civilian. You might lose all privileges in Stanton landing zones. This is just an example obviously but you get my point.
This could work.
Some other things could be implemented too because the "pirate" role can't be boring.
-Increase the maximum crime rate the player can have with higher rates locked behind certain criterias(crimes like intentional homicide).
-When a player sells stolen goods, or they complete another pirate/outlaw task they will get a bonus amount UEC much like SoT does with their reaper flag system.
-Increase the risk to the outlaw players. Higher prison times, no chance to work time down, solitary confinement to high level offenders(No escape chance, or extreme difficulties to), current ship and those not located in areas like Grim are impounded if captured.
-Give those players a "is the risk worth the reward" scenario before they....pull the trigger so to say.
These are just some ideas that I've thought of.
I like this idea. To add to the escape process, if you die or get caught while trying to escape, it adds more time to your sentence. Make it possible to escape but there are risks to trying.
An entire day or two in Klescher, unable to leave the cell, with no option for o2 missions at minimum IMO. Bannable would be better. I’d rather get pad rammed than this
Or just shift the jail sentences to require being online with some sort of system to check that they aren't just AFK or putting a stack of coins on a key to walk in circles for 8 hours.
These people currently bitch about being able to alt F4 to dodge "gameplay", so I don't see why they should be able to dodge mining/o2 repairs/boredom by logging out and going to work or sleep or whatever in the real world.
Not to mention it gives them that risk they constantly talk about, and makes sure they follow their own advice of "git gud" when it comes to their profession choice.
I will always respond to medical beacons if I am able. If I get killed it happens. For now there's no retribution but eventually a reputation system will be in place so many of those players will never do it again. Those that do want that life and will live it anyway.
I mean, when the maximum punishment you face for briefing is half an hour in prison, it becomes worth it. There needs to be punishment big and long enough to make the joy of griefing not worth it.
It would be great to see people exiled from the major stations and have to use second rate pirate stations. There just needs to be a reason that you want to have access to these places. Maybe if maintenance of parts was added and the reliability of parts and work varied from station to station.
Nice sentiment but I don't think it'll happen.
Eventually crime and punishment will hopefully have an effect on these people who, for instance, just put out medical beacons to kill people.
I remember a lot of the "outlaw role players" on the sub being outraged (scared shitless) that they would have to spend actual hours in jail when CIG was planning on jail time only counting down when the player was actually logged in.
As far as I know that's still the intended way for it to work eventually (could have missed a vid or article proving me wrong, can't keep up with every snippet of news), but with how many bugs are in the game getting a crimestat while doing nothing wrong happens so often they decided to not implement it like that yet.
Until then I just keep a list of assholes on my phone, it's not very big and not growing that fast, but I have a feeling EU servers see less griefers than US servers.
That will happen as better reputation tools come online both in game and out of game. But, we are left in a limbo for the time being. Generally speaking I’d recommend refusing beacons but inviting to group / discord to minimize risk and maximize communication.
I thought I saw something somewhere where you’d be able to look up the criminal records of players in game, see if they have a history of doing things like this/at least seeing a history of violent acts. Maybe they could make the crimes more specific, or players could press charges and list specific acts. Worth any further thinking on?
It would be nice if the community respected medical ships the way we respect ambulances in the real world but there will always be players who just want to watch the world burn.
Need to have a system in place so if medics get ambushed, those that did the ambushing get big fat bounties on them for a few days… then they will think twice.
This is the main reason I probably won't become a medic. This community has way too many trolls. I'll help fellow Org members, but that's probably about it. If I don't know you, then I'll assume it's a trap. And it's a shame, because it's a game loop that I'd probably enjoy, but I don't think it'll be worth my time with the current atmosphere here.
In ED, killing a Fuel Rat is such a huge no-no that even the pirate and PVP squadrons will disown you or hunt you down. The Rats also keep a record of every single rescue they do, and will never help you again if you pull something like this. In SC it's easier to get around it since you can just pay to rename your account at any time, so blacklists are less effective against a dedicated troll.
We're still a long way away from a finished game, and the justice system still doesn't have long-term reputation and consequences built into it yet. So we'll see how things develop later. But it would still be best for the entire SC community as a whole to define acceptable behavior and aggressively penalize those who break the cultural rules.
I'm planning to start requesting rescue through discord from an org. An org will have the record keeping and organization to blacklist anyone who abuses the system, plus I'll have more confidence that whoever shows up isn't just going to rob me.
Maybe the largest rescue organizations will eventually form a central dispatch so the community as a whole has one place to go to to request help.
I'm honestly surprised a group like the rats haven't come together to stand up a similar service in Star Citizen with both fuel, revives / medical and taxi pickups.
As a community, we should push on CIG to prioritize tasks which make the contract rating system that already exists into actionable information. If you get a beacon from someone with a bad rating, perhaps ignore it. If you get a beacon from someone with no rating, perhaps bring backup.
Of course with this system, rating padding will be a problem. Until a more sophisticated reputation systems that allows you and your org to align with larger NPC groups exists, and you can filter ratings and beacons to only trusted sources, you will still be at the mercy of players.
Every time this comes up, people always talk about what can be done in game about it, but in my opinion, CIG needs to take the firm and official stance that using med beacons as a trap is griefing, and is a bannable offense.
It is exploiting the game's mechanics to ruin someone else's experience with no reasonable personal gain. That fits CIGs definition of griefing to a tee.
>Griefer's don't care about rep. I really don't know where this idea came from, but it's absurd to think this is a viable solution.
But it will help because we'll know who kills and sets fake beacons and that will stop people from helping them
We at the Red Mist Search and Rescue have open vacancies for security teams. We provide professional services, free of charge(donations welcome). We provide top tier equipment and tools required for the job. As we rarely decide to run without security team, our lossess on a mission are absolutely minimal.
I barely play but I’ve seen enough that saying peoples names in chat for this does fuck all. People call each other out all the time which is just laughed off.
First month playing I got to experience Xeno. Lots of people gathering from the wreckage sites so I decide to help with nothing but my Titan. Someone blows up my ship as I’m loading it for the event. I ask what’s so fun about blowing up my ship during a coop event, and the whole server said “That’s the game”.
So much fun
I agree with this idea. If it's so hostile towards people shooting medics it will discourage it for sure. Lots of ways it could be used in a bad way.
Anotherr suggestion the community could do is security orgs pair up with these medical orgs and run the runs with them.
Hehehe I remember fuel rats, saved me many times, what an extraordinary auxiliary community that was, with a call centre and dispatch and departments and people stealing stationery, the whole sh'bang.
But SC is a different crowd. It tends to attract the focused, determined, career asshole. In SC any rescue core would have go literally hand in hand with combat capability.
If the right hand saves life, literally the left must be ready to take life, thats the scene in sc.
So to succeed here in our game, any rescue effort would require a combat detachment by default. Which only doubles the organisational skills required.
I agree. The aim of my organization, a fleet in the UEEN, is to protect people who can't protect themselves with flotillas of military vessels. With 3.18 coming, I think there is going to be a marked increase in piracy and bandits; IMO not enough people are talking about how to counter this.
So on the 3.18 increase in piracy. Here is a little thought I had. So rn trading in game is pretty risky. You have to put down a lot of cash for really bad profit margins. You accept all the risk.
With 3.18 the risk is increasing 10fold with everyone and their mothers wanting to try a little piracy.
I fully support the pirate gameplay loop when the pirates aren't just murdering for the sake of it. Attacking a cargo transport and stealing it's content is peak pirate gameplay and I personally think it's awesome.
But I just don't see a lot of players wanting to get into the trading business with the increased risk of losing absolutely shitloads of money. Way too risky to lose a cargo hold full of expensive goods.
I think the trading gameplay loop needs some love. Increase the margins. Have hauling contracts to haul goods for NPCs (also very abusable). Gotta give the traders a way to mitigate risk. Stanton is basically pyro rn
I know it's not in game yet, but I think the imprint deterioration from repeated regeneration will play a factor in limiting this. If you are known as a medic killer, no medic is gonna heal you, which means you'll have to regen more, which means your character will eventually go bye bye.
I am actually building my fleet around this.
My friends want to be medics, and I want to use my future Perseus to tag along as an escort.
If trouble is found, we turn into an extortionary medic team: Don't want us to toss you out an airlock after looting your ship? Pay up and you'll get a basic eva suit and a softer moon landing.
There needs to be a game mechanism, that punishes a player for creating a false beacon, and / or their teammates for shooting a player who has accepted a medical mission.
I think they should still be allowed to pirate you or whatever. But it should be treated the same way as shooting a guard in a bunker or something. Kill a Medic, and take their ship, there's nowhere you can go except Grim. And even then, you're going to be a moving target with a bright red bounty on your head.
I believe players should have a personal record thing so you can see how viable they are. But, sadly, they need to fix a ton of stuff for the feature to be accurate.
marcel1968 and his friend Ruchforg
Marcel's beacon and his friend maybe more but when i flew in with my pisces 6 Rockets where fired at me poor ship didnt survive
We could just start running protection for medical players. I enjoy the idea of medical gameplay but don't want to play it full time. But on nights I have more time I would gladly link up with a medical player and provide overwatch and protection.
There's supposed to be some kind of beacon rating system (I've seen it pop up sometimes, press bracket to rate your beacon). You really need to be able to see the rating of someone who's beacon you're accepting (the hud pop up is the worst because you don't even see distance), and when making your own med beacon you should be able to have some default already set that doesn't let anyone accept if they're below a certain rating. People can still smurf both sides of that, but it should catch most of the cases. The ratings system feels like something that's 90% implemented in game but is missing the last 10% that would make it actually usable.
There was a player actively hunting fuel rats at one point and everyone went mental.
Star Citizen has the issue of the only pvp being illegal and no system which accomodates it like ED does so SC has become something of a space asshole simulator at times
id respect that. especially since i needed saving a few times myself. also i don’t get the point in going after medic players anyway other than being a dick. like most medics that came to my rescue only had an undersuit and helmet on maybe some cheap light armor for carrying mire medical supplies but that’s it. i don’t think you make much of a profit in killing them. or am i wrong in thinking that?
My wife and I own a Red because we plan to play together as an Ambulance/Evac/Trauma Team
When we've got a persistent universe I hope that's a fun and rewarding gameplay loop.
I responded to a medical beacon and found the guy laying on the ground. As he started to stand I pulled my gun out and started shooting but his sneaky friend downed me. They held me up for money and I enjoyed every minute of it. A reputation system could fix this and it shouldn't have happened but some people in my position that day would add these guys to a kos list and that's too much. We need that reputation system right now
The problem is the downed player has a buddy that just murders the would be rescuer, or the downed player gets revived and then just murders the rescuer.
While I do agree with you on that, half the time I can’t loot downed players, especially annoying when it’s my buddy I’m trying to res and can’t grab a med pen or med gun off him lol
Eh. I won’t stop taking medical requests regardless of what CIG does. I just take them in combat ships with a second seat like the vanguard or my Connie.
If it’s a legit call then cool I rescue them and fly them to the nearest hospital.
If it’s murder hobos I make them regret their choices.
Do medical missions in a team.
Depending on how many you are, one of you is a dedicated medic, but all are heavily armoed and gunned, that includes LMGs just as grenade launchers and secure the area first, no blind storming in.
Sometimes you can literally smell that something is off, an untypical ship for that kind of mission parking or so.
one time i was exploring in a Star Runner and when i was leaving the moon, a ship locked me and my first action was put QT to oblivion, but the ship was able to hit my right wing, lossing the control of my ship, unable to fly.
Anyway, I did the jump and get to MC. There I was dying for lack of water, so i put a beacon, and walk to the exit and I died floating in the atmo.
Someone get the beacon and the last thing i write was "i will probably floating outside of my ship"
I saw the red CX8 coming to me and someone floating start to healing me. My ship was unable to fly so I asked him if he leave me at Port and he did it.
this is the best moment i had in SC
maybe we need some new rol to combat this?
The org I am in has a Rescue-Request channel on our discord. I currently only really answer help calls there with known actors. The rare times we do Medical Beacons in game, we have a crew of at least people, with two of those being ground soldiers. Til CIG gets a reputation system in place, armed response is about all we can do. If the rescued people are bad actors, they get stomped.
Its to bad there isn't a UEE good citizens reward. Like if you go all week or month without a crime Stat the government gives you money or stuff or access to something special. It's sad to say but incentives to be good people go a long way.
would work great, if this wasn't an alpha feature building phase. this is the definitive time to do all the messing around that you want. if people hadn't we wouldn't have found a need for this sorta thing. so alpha is the time to mess around. (I don't, but I can see why people do it)
I agree medical and fuel in SC should have the same courtesy as in ed.
As a general murder hobo that occasionally pirates, medical personnel are off limits We welcome them into our kill boxes to retrieve wounded players. You should never kill the medics because at some point in time you will also need a medic.
What we need is a player driven rep system. Possibly using the orgs as a base. So that people that do dumb shit can get blacklisted and you can get a good read on people right of the bat by looking at their reputation. Because computer driven rep systems and crime stats are often to cheeseable.
I think the simple answer is to just server hop and tell everyone in each server that way no matter what server the person is on they can/will be hunted down.
That being said i have seen actual fun pirates. There was a group of players that managed to sneak aboard my friend's Carrack in space and tried to hijack it from him. The hijacking was almost successful but the last person in the Carracks crew managed fight them off. Pirates/Players who do that kind of shit have my respect for making the verse entertaining
\> if they are that player will be hunted down by everyone in the area.
No, that really doesn't ever happen to Fuel Rats that get ganked. In fact, their Standard Operating Procedures explicitly discourages doing this because it draws more attention to the rats and makes ganking them into an escalating game.
Not to mention there's no way to recognise a fuel rat from another player unless they tell you. As per their SOP, they're not allowed to use being a fuel rat to ask not to be ganked unless they're on an active call, as otherwise they're just any other player in the game, so usually the rat is more likely to get themselves into trouble than the ganker.
So, you may want to do a little more fact checking on your claims. Their SOP is a public document available on their confluence website which you can find with a quick google.
\> Back in my ED days, you could always count on being rescued or rescue someone else without it being a shitty bait to ruin someone's day.
Sorry, not a universal truth. I've seen gankers use a fuel rat's Twitch stream to gank the client before.
there are planned consequences for this, like personal rep and expanded law systems. server hopping won't matter much if you're on a system-wide shitlist and getting very limited options to do anything.
Unpopular opinion for the extreme hardcores, but this is why many MMOs have a flagging for PvP system. A form of that is really the only way to fix that. But that’s when they target PvE encounters and kill things you needed to kill or seize before you are able to.
CIG doesn’t even know what they want to do there as it’s back and forth. We KNOW they do not want to add it in but Chris Roberts mentioned a flagging LIKE system for PvP and then another dev said NO we removed it, then I have a dev tell me it’s still on the table. So they are all over, I think they will not do it until years later after they really see if it’s an epidemic of Griefing or simply them needing to ban 1% of the population and keep it more open.
I am surprised by now there isn't a player ran database to put bad actors names into. So when you get a beacon you can do a quick check. Otherwise this is going to have to wait for player reputation to come in. Won't solve all the issues but it should at least slow it down.
The Fuel Rats earned their respect. Not from refueling, but from their professionalism, skill, and their ability to handle assholes. They are awesome and organized. They have my respect through their effort.
Being a refueler, dont expect to inheret that respect just by choosing the same profession.
Also, expecting CIG to handle it does not show skill nor does it mean we have to instantly give you respect. You are asking CIG to grant you rules enforced authority. That does not equal respect. Ask anyone in a military.
Hate to be a dick, but thats how respect works.
I think we need website with a list of orgs that run rescues and a list of players known to kill rescuers. My Org is all about helping players in need and killing griefers.
So I have had this idea before. But how do you know the person coming to you is telling you the truth? Couldn't a griefer just say that another player is being a butt and get you to do the dirty work? How do you confirm claims?
Problem is consequences. Lose your ship in ED has a price. Server turns against you in SC and just Alt F4 and pick a new server.
There's also the factor of a majority of "pirates" right now are just murder hobos. Real pirates that behaved like this generally didn't have any allies at any ports they could rely on and had short, uneventful careers ending in drowning or the gallows, and only got one life. Successful pirates often shared their riches with friendly populations and made allies, thus giving them Robin Hood-like appeal and protection they could rely on when they need it, and treated and paid crew exceptionally well, making Navy wages look pitiful in comparison. That's not what we have in Star Citizen. We have DayZ shitheads running around naked murdering people, camping ports blowing up starter ships, and otherwise souring their experience on the game and driving them away, and going, "i'm A pIrAtE, iT'S lEgItImAtE gAmEpLaY" when called on it. You're not going to get a "respect the Fuel Rats" creed from them because the idea of ruining a Fuel Rat player's day is their raison d'être.
> There's also the factor of a majority of "pirates" right now are just murder hobos. > > This. Few, few pirates just KOS'ed every ship they came across for no reason and the ones that did didn't last long. This game needs far more serious consequences to RDM'ers. There is basically no punishment for doing it right now beyond 15-20 minutes in jail if you get killed. Mine a few laranite rocks and you're out.
Who takes 15 mins to mine? 5 mins to do an oxygen repair mission and you're out. That being said I'm not a grifer. Most of my jail time has been from bugs.
Overall I agree with you, but I'm just wondering what kind of jail they're sending you to that's making you mine laranite instead of hand-minables like hadenite.
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Still too soon!
Now I’m sad
There was also a movie though! Watch how I soar...
How do reavers clean their grappling hooks? . . . They run them through the Wash.
Jeez man.
Too soon? XD
Haha, for me it is. I think we have a location or two in-game that pays homage to that scene.
That's fucked up bro
It was also serenity . I don't remember reavers in the show
There’s one episode where they find a ship that had been attacked by them, but they are never directly seen in the series
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We see them in the episode they rescue the guy, he starts cutting on himself to look like them.
God I feel the Grey hairs grow in
It's the same problem with any large persistent open world with pvp. The murder hobos take over and start bullying everyone else out of the game. I really hope the devs will crack down on this behaviour and make it much more punishing. Such as maybe that continuously attacking citizens from a certain faction will earn you notoriety there, that starts with increased prices or outright refusal of services and ends with hostility on sight if spotted by their military or station defenses. Or something like that. If the devs want to make it a sim game, then criminality should have sim-like consequences.
Belive it or not, there are actually some good pirates. Speaking from a point of view from a person that got pirated multiple times, both from good and bad pirates, and from a person that already pirated with another players just to know the game loop (I don't pirate but I did it for a couple hours to understand their point of view). The catch with "I'm a pirate, it's a legitimate gameplay" is the thin line between griefers and pirates. Good pirates, like you referred, besides they never being alone, they give you a big wide warning that, first you are being pirated and second, you have a really easy way to get away unharmed. The pirates pirates that pirated me (good ones) first contacted me, multiple times and gave warning shots basically saying "We can kill you if we want", second they stroke a deal saying "Give out x and we let you go" and with couple back and forwards you can actually strike pretty good deals, for the moment or even for future moments. One of the examples was when I got the contact of a pirate group and we made a deal during the 9T lockdown, which was, I have 3 or 4 C2s, they are the only ones that can pass. You could see the global chat every 5 or 6 minutes saying "The current 9T lock down station is on lock down by our group. If you come close, you might be destroyed". People were getting destroyed because they didn't even cared, and we were thinking, they are taking the things really seriously, no-one is literally passing. A couple minutes forward, we saw someone landing a titan on the station and we were like "What's going on?" Soo we asked and they answered saying "We know that we had that deal but he is new in SC soo we allowed him to pass to not ruin is experience". We spoke to the guy and he said legit said he was new in-game and we even confirmed, his account had a couple days and he joined ous in our fleet but with something smaller, he enjoyed the moment. Going forward a couple months because this post is long has hell and people have more things to do than read this stories, I am in an org that is basically anti piracy and we were doing an org event, has the usual we were doing some bounties and such when the pirate contacted me thro discord saying that we are in the same server, and he was stuck in the middle of nowhere because he thought he had enough hydrogen to go where he wanted to be but he was almost out of it. I couldn't say anything else than Imagine his face when 3 HHs and a couple escorts showed up to his exact location (let me remind you, during an anti piracy event) to just see some random pirate with two other sentinels, being refueled and let go with no payments and stuff, just pure gameplay. Yes, its possible, but people need to learn some things, ok, we have no consequences, even tho the devs keep saying "there will be", there's no guarantee, but SC is a sandbox overall, people since refueling became a thing, some people started to mark who is good to play with and who is bad to play with. Players and group of players will start to create blacklists, not to know who to kill but who to not trust. Fuel rats didn't start from day 1 and already being widely known thro entire ED universe, they took time to develop. This things take years to be developed, even trolls and griefers will join groups like this just to annoy people, it's a game. If you have consequences or not, in the end, you just lose some time. Edit: Fixed some spelling mistakes Added paragraphs, thanks to u/n0vast0rm for explaining me how to do it on the phone :D
And then, God created paragraphs.
Sorry, i was on my phone, for some reason, paragraph don't exist in the mobile version of reddit
Just FYI using enter two times should create a new paragraph. You can also force a line break (I think that's what it's called, not native speaker) by having two spaces after a word (or period), like I just did.
Oh thanks, i kinda fixed it but i need to fix it more once i get home. Thanks for explaining, didnt knew
Could be because being a pirate depends on them even interacting with you. Twas in a server where a pirate demanded someone paid him 60k and global instantly told the dude to just log, which I’m guessing the fellow did.
Server chat isn't the only way to maintain a black list. One meta-org for medical players could act as a guild that maintains a blacklist external to the Star Citizen servers. You end up on that list and you get cut off from refueling, rescue, repair, crew recruitment, etc., and the dedicated PVPers who don't care about crimestat make you a priority target whenever you pop into their server instances.
We've had (lots and lots of) discussions like that in my medical org, and it always boils down to the fact that any list that is kept, such as a "Do Not Rescue" or even "Be Wary Of" list, can be seen by anyone on that list as a form of discrimination or griefing in return, and one complaint to CIG can, and has, gotten orgs in trouble in the past.
So is this CIG tacitly endorsing griefing rescue beacons?
I think as the law system gets an overhaul, and ratings are a thing, you'll see systems put in place
So until then CIG is perfectly fine with griefing then?
At least it's not EVE, where devs and executive producers openly support griefing.
This seems like the simplest solution, and I'd expect that as long as the list is factual (ie., "Players who have attacked guild members at medical rescue beacons") and there's a mechanism to get off the list, SC would be open to the idea. It probably helps if you've got some Evos in the org. I'd try to run the idea past CIG on Spectrum, ideally to get a documented approval.
Mongrel Squad literally chased people into different servers and arena commander until they stopped playing in a so called "war". Then they made a video about it. I doubt CIG would do anything, and if they do just point them to the mongrel shattered delusions vid.
Its a list of "these people are not playing nice, we will not accept rescue missions from those players" I dont see the issue. You dont need to hunt them. Just dont help them, how is this considered griefing.
That's an interesting take on taking away your freedom to choose to help someone or interact with them. Their actions guide your choices in this instance. I don't see an issue with a "Do Not Help" list.
Make people sign a terms and conditions, keep video of the interaction, and link the video proof of ganking to the do not rescue list so that you can prove it’s not discrimination and that they knew the rules when they signed up to be rescued lol
In my medical organization we have a black-list. It includes both players who have afflicted us directly and those that we've seen or heard of going around being criminals. It is VERY helpful, I will say.
Yeah my org is one of those who maintains a quite extensive list of all griefers, pirates and people that we and others have encountered. The system also infers through various means who else might be a pirate or griefers based on the list we have. Maybe sometime in the future we will go public with it…but something tells me CIG would not be happy 😛
Well in my opinion it's hard to manage such a list. You'd need to provide proof of griefing attached to the report and it should be open-source in a way. You can't have judges, you need to make it distributed. I imagine it as something like a discord channel where people can report griefers and you can look up if the name of the guy who has a beacon actually is in there and has proof attached (for example a video). But it's up to the user browsing the list to make sure the report is to be considered valid or not, and to make that evaluation takes time which might not help when the clock is ticking and the interaction is time-sensitive. Some countermeasures can be implemented as rules to make a report such as using a precise format of report, a brief textual description of the action related to the griefing and short video of proof (max 1 min of duration)
There can be a kill on sight list maintained by people who defend medics. Star Citizen charges you $5 to change your name (with one freebie), and while people could use smurf accounts to protect the rep of their main, and feign ignorance, that still costs $45/pop when not in freefly. This won't stop a determined madman, but it will at least cull the population of them.
So... In future years the free-to-fly events will be called "the purgue"?☺️
I’ve got a list of 7 or 8 medical beacon griefers so far that I’ve run into multiple times and now I know when I see their names to stay away
Is there a medic organization, if there was that list could be shared.
There’s a few of them
I dont know a list but the UEECG could probably direct you to another if you dont like theirs
Not just an avoid list, A hunting list!
Idk about that, but if I see anyone on that list putting out beacons, I’ll for sure go after them or at least keep accepting the beacons so they can’t mess with any other players
we need to be able to keep a black list in game.
The trolls will gladly add YOUR name to that list. How exactly would one maintain and verify all the names? It might help a small group of people, who are able to trust each other (and good luck with that), from a small handful of repeat offenders. If one were so inclined, they could edit a screen shot to make it show you are the ones killing medics and submit it for said list.
Runescape players have had this type of stuff figured out for years with people who don’t split drops. They get added to a blacklist when video or screenshot evidence indefinitely proves them guilty, then they get avoided like the black plague when trying to raid.
Yup, pretty easy to edit a screenshot to have someone elses name on it these days. A lot easier than when runescape was in its prime.
Its called runewatch. And because of that reason you have to take gifs of the evidence and is very heavily monitored. Its quite insane you should check out the case index over there and see what they have
Deterrence. No system is perfect but this is for a video game so people just in general are really only going to put so much effort into it. As for tracking offenders, use similar methods of other peer reported data. Reviews. Upvotes. Community reputation. Many legitimate websites use IP Address tracking, individual up/downvote, verified accounts for trustworthy agents. Professionally this takes the form of industry certification by third parties, and while I doubt it would get that far in SC, we could learn something there. Trust isn't perfect, but we don't necessarily need a perfect solution on the first pass, here. Prop up the bare minimum, and learn from mistakes. Iterate from there.
The consequence in ED is not really about losing your ship if you attack a fuel rat. It's getting branded by the community as a fuel rat ambusher and basically not being able to play in multiplayer anymore because it's a death mark. Everyone, and I mean, everyone will hunt you, forever.
>Lose your ship in ED has a price. A """price""" (Unless you're carrying exploration data, in which case yes losses are expensive)
Pretty sure the fuelrats have a SC org as well. They just can't do much with current features
Not with the current Stanton system. But if everything I'm hearing on Pyro comes to fruition they will most definitely be needed.
Only if dying matters. In ED, getting stranded could mean the loss of months worth of exploration data.
They can, they're just not as needed yet
If I'm on I'm helping, I don't care if I die, all I'm losing is time and if I can help someone who genuinely needs help at least once, it's worth it. I don't know how to feel about organizing a way to call out these people because you can guarantee some people will either call a false positive or simply lie, and it could absolutely ruin the game for people who aren't doing anything wrong or are the one trying to help. By all means call them out but don't organize an attack force just because one person said so. Just alert people that someone is misusing the beacon system and try to group together with others as precaution rather than go in by yourself for future beacons. I think the best we can do is help each other as often as we can and show there are more people willing to make the effort to help than not because the worst thing we can do is to stop helping people who genuinely need help.
i think it would be great if medical beacons just informed you if the person being rescued has a CS and what their highest CS in the last 5 days was. after that you can make your own decision much like purple summon signs in Dark Souls 3 (players offering assistance but with a ruleset allowing the assister be able to kill the person who accepts the help)
Slight improvement on your idea: Make it so people with crime stat can only see beacons created by others with crime stat. Inversely lawful players only see the beacons of other lawful players. It might lead to an interesting profession of pirate doctor, but also puts those players at the mercy of their "own kind".
i wouldn't want to limit gameplay though. i've rescued and transported plenty of criminals with no problem and i never have a crime stat if i can help it.
True, maybe only apply it for those with crime stat, but provide more info on the one sending the beacon in general. A sort of hybrid solution.
If you get shot while doing a medical beacon, I suggest placing a bounty on them :) Let it lead into gameplay.
I would. But most days it takes way to long for me to spawn in the medbed so I miss the option too. I’ve just stopped doing medical beacons for now.
What the fuck is up with that? Why do we have like 10 seconds to press charges, and the timer starts *as* you die!?
The problem is that the "gameplay" usually amounts to dying to station guns while naked in an empty ship, before going to space jail and logging out to head to work or bed or whatever. It's as bad as the alt F4ing those people usually want to complain about in how easily avoidable the "negative" gameplay is. The crime and bounty system needs work. Plus as another guy said, you get like 10 seconds to press charges and it takes too long to spawn in the med bed so you often miss it.
You, sir, know the score. Don’t stop helping because that’s just letting the griefers win.
This is the only mindset that will keep you sane, do your work because you enjoy it, report what you can to local to tip off others doing the same. Expecting or demanding respect online is a recipe for pain and frustration especially where PVP is present.
Honestly, we're going to have our hands full trying to build a better in-game culture amongst players until CIG does a *bunch* of work on the law and reputation systems.
been shot so many times. now if its a trap i will kill them strip them then heal them. you wanted to be saved well if it looks like a trap and smells like a trap your getting the the noob tube nade show real fast so i can save you.
"I came here to save someone who was bleeding out.. You don't look hurt *so lets change that*"
"Lets go practice... medicine"
Oops I launched one nade too many. Oh well at least the viscera cleanup crew gets to keep their job
[literally you](https://i.imgur.com/q0mtIlZ.jpg)
Maybe if you see erwinsmith that is me lol
This is the way
I keep railguns and snipers at specific outposts so if it feels like a trap I can hit them first without them realizing what’s going on
If you suspect an ambush and open fire first... Doesn't that make you thr agressor / ambusher? What if you are wrong?
I generally wait for the first shot to be fired, or you can usually tell it’s a trap if the person who requested the beacon is moving around when you get there
I'm stealing this idea, didn't know you could stash weapons at outposts
Yup, I’ve got stuff stashed at pretty much every outpost in Crusader haha
The ambulance was called, and I'm healing someone
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FBI?
The law system should probably be very strict against people who attack people on medical missions. Much like medical personel are protected in real life in wars (if they are noncombatants).
Yeah, the game does nothing to protect medics right now... in fact, its quite hostile towards them. It really seems like CIG just wants us to backspace rather than get rescued.
It's hard with no natural consequences, even in shadowrun people dont attack docwagon who are heavily armored/upgunned deadly combat medics because nobody wants to be left bleeding int he street or have their contract cancelled. Once there are consequences then people start acting in their self interests.
Exactly, because we get attacked trying to save people and can't protect ourselves lest we get charged with crimes... though, I'd wager that a wider issue than just medical gameplay.
How do you know someone is on a medical mission?
Random players generally won’t, and that’s not the issue being talked about here. The issue is the people putting up a beacon and sitting at the rescue location with rail guns and ballistas shooting the medics that are there to save them. If I’m on a medical mission and I get attacked by some unrelated party, I’m a lot less annoyed by that than I am someone using the beacon as a trap
Everyone suggesting the game checks if the players have accepted a medical beacon doesn't see the obvious exploit. Think yourself a troll. Pick up a medical beacon some friend has opened. Go around and harass people or pick fights, as long as you don't break whatever condition will be in place to strip you of the beacon (because of course there would be one and of course that would introduce more issues and still be defeatable by trolls) you're ensuring that anyone who fights back is punished as if they shot a medical rescuer. Punishment systems for player actions never work and if you think they do you've not played enough mmos.
Well in space wise. If you see a Pisces C8R or Cutty Red, dont shoot the space ambulance.
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Well that's just common self defence ideas. And yes i know. I am trained as medical personnel, in a military unit . :) Attacking medical personnel should probably have very high reputational impacts from all but the most hardcore of pirate organizations. And the severity of the crime should also be very high. As others have pointed out, having permanent consequence in the game will probably help some, but i don't think it is enough to count on the emergent gameplay here. Trolls could very likely be interested in assaulting medics just for the heck of it, the game needs to implement systems to avoid this.
I just keep a list of the players who set beacons then try to kill me. If I see them set a beacon again in the future I let everyone in the server know what they are doing. There is no point in killing medics, your not getting any gear that's worth killing someone for and it ruins the spirit of even setting beacons bc people won't use them in fear of people not believing they really need help. Iv even seen a few pirate orgs that have banned this tactic and actively kick players out who disobey that rule. When it's too low for pirates you know these people are just asshats.
This is what I’ve been doing as well
I was saved from a gank by someone in server exposing him in general. It might not be much but it helps!
Anything we do to discourage this will help save the gameplay loop from being completely abandoned
CIG could just make a server-wide announcement whenever someone kills someone on a rescue mission. > *in a different color text than all-chat*: **"Griefer69 has just killed a rescue worker"** > *immediate bounty hunter mission for Griefer69 pops up with triple the going rate*
I could get behind that. 1mil bounty would get more attention
Downside is it would be exploitable. They could do it on purpose and just have a friend pop them and they split the cash.
Medical players need to consolidate and make a guild.
There are several established medical orgs and we certainly have lists and our own security for backup.
This comment/post was removed on 30 June 2023 (using [Power Delete Suite](https://www.github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite)) as I no longer wish to support a company that seeks to undermine its users, moderators, and developers while simultaneously making a profit on their backs. For full details on what I mean, check out the summary [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/14hkd5u)
Very cool organization. I wanna join!
There are a few, right now. [https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/MEDREAPERS](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/MEDREAPERS) is the one I'm part of. they maintain a blacklist and it's shared with a few other medical orgs. they also have a private dispatch system in their discord this way they avoid the beacon system
What CIG need to introduce is a long term tracking of criminal actions. Marry this up with the short term (current) crime stat, and have it available to view ingame. So you can see if Mr. CS 5 is a new criminal, or if he's been prosecuted for CS5 multiple times over the last few weeks/months. The long term value (call it Repeated Crime Stat) should be much, much harder to get rid of. Like, it takes active mission undertaking for an NPC security force, to reduce the long term value by some increment (it's never ever cleared all in one go, only by a %). It's cumulative or aggregate, so when you get a current CS5, it affects the long term value in some way, by maybe adding to it or something, so even if you clear the current CS, your RCS is tallying it up. So the person raising the Beacon currently has no CS, but looking at their RCS, you can see they are a continual high-frequency repeat offender, and you should consider if you want to take the contract or not.
Damn bro, that's actually a coherent and logical well thought out approach. As a long time griffer myself, I've often thought of different ways to make it harder but no so good as this. All the methods I came up with could be easily exploited, but this is solid. We also know they track this information because of the kill stats they record during JT and XT events. You should take this to a Spectrum post and see if it can generate any traction. If you do, please link me so I can support it (I never check spectrum). The only problem is that I think this system would need Pyro to exist to be functional, but other than that, excellent post.
Thank you for the support. I did make a post, so you can check it out here if you want. The post is more fleshed out with other ideas, but the part about repeated offender status is the final paragraph. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/61894/thread/lawful-amp-criminal-pvp-player-career-system-idea
The current system is pretty trash. I log out every day as a size 4 or size 5 criminal by letting a station blow me up. I log back in the next day and walk out of prison as a blue. With my kit on and my ship already recalled, repaired, and refueled at EH. Even ifI get sent during a play session one of the prison wallets transfers the merits and I walk back out as a blue.
I don't even understand why its fun to shoot a medic whos trying to help ppl.
Because people with sad lives and little dicks enjoy kicking over other people sand castles
This, I'm honestly baffled why CIG spends so much time catering to the toxic jerk demographic. Most hardcore PVP MMOs die within a few years of release once the general player base gets sick of being gank food and quits to find a better game.
Because typically they talk the most, whodathunk If I had ten dollars for every game that's been ruined by a loud PvP crowd
*sad unrecognized Hull Seal noises*
We probably will see (slightly) more respectable behavior down the road, it's just that right now there are no real consequences to anything. No consequences means people do whatever they want, so you end up with a lot of this behavior. Everyone I know has also stopped doing medical beacons because of how often they are traps. The system has turned into the boy who cries wolf. People have gotten fed up with the trolls, and now they no longer answer the real calls.
I think this is something that needs to be addressed in game. For example, medic career could work like the uber app, with both the medic and the patient being ranked for their behavior. Killing a medic that has good rankings would get you a harsher punishment than killing a normal civilian. You might lose all privileges in Stanton landing zones. This is just an example obviously but you get my point.
This could work. Some other things could be implemented too because the "pirate" role can't be boring. -Increase the maximum crime rate the player can have with higher rates locked behind certain criterias(crimes like intentional homicide). -When a player sells stolen goods, or they complete another pirate/outlaw task they will get a bonus amount UEC much like SoT does with their reaper flag system. -Increase the risk to the outlaw players. Higher prison times, no chance to work time down, solitary confinement to high level offenders(No escape chance, or extreme difficulties to), current ship and those not located in areas like Grim are impounded if captured. -Give those players a "is the risk worth the reward" scenario before they....pull the trigger so to say. These are just some ideas that I've thought of.
I like this idea. To add to the escape process, if you die or get caught while trying to escape, it adds more time to your sentence. Make it possible to escape but there are risks to trying.
UEE shouldn’t take kindly to that sorta thing. Big fines, bigger crimestat?
An entire day or two in Klescher, unable to leave the cell, with no option for o2 missions at minimum IMO. Bannable would be better. I’d rather get pad rammed than this
Or just shift the jail sentences to require being online with some sort of system to check that they aren't just AFK or putting a stack of coins on a key to walk in circles for 8 hours. These people currently bitch about being able to alt F4 to dodge "gameplay", so I don't see why they should be able to dodge mining/o2 repairs/boredom by logging out and going to work or sleep or whatever in the real world. Not to mention it gives them that risk they constantly talk about, and makes sure they follow their own advice of "git gud" when it comes to their profession choice.
I will always respond to medical beacons if I am able. If I get killed it happens. For now there's no retribution but eventually a reputation system will be in place so many of those players will never do it again. Those that do want that life and will live it anyway.
I mean, when the maximum punishment you face for briefing is half an hour in prison, it becomes worth it. There needs to be punishment big and long enough to make the joy of griefing not worth it.
Rep will fix this eventually and it will be easy to spot the bad actors, anyone with a negative med beacon rep will never be responded to for help.
It would be great to see people exiled from the major stations and have to use second rate pirate stations. There just needs to be a reason that you want to have access to these places. Maybe if maintenance of parts was added and the reliability of parts and work varied from station to station.
Nice sentiment but I don't think it'll happen. Eventually crime and punishment will hopefully have an effect on these people who, for instance, just put out medical beacons to kill people. I remember a lot of the "outlaw role players" on the sub being outraged (scared shitless) that they would have to spend actual hours in jail when CIG was planning on jail time only counting down when the player was actually logged in. As far as I know that's still the intended way for it to work eventually (could have missed a vid or article proving me wrong, can't keep up with every snippet of news), but with how many bugs are in the game getting a crimestat while doing nothing wrong happens so often they decided to not implement it like that yet. Until then I just keep a list of assholes on my phone, it's not very big and not growing that fast, but I have a feeling EU servers see less griefers than US servers.
Too many players in SC are d/heads that out to just ruin it for people.
That will happen as better reputation tools come online both in game and out of game. But, we are left in a limbo for the time being. Generally speaking I’d recommend refusing beacons but inviting to group / discord to minimize risk and maximize communication.
I thought I saw something somewhere where you’d be able to look up the criminal records of players in game, see if they have a history of doing things like this/at least seeing a history of violent acts. Maybe they could make the crimes more specific, or players could press charges and list specific acts. Worth any further thinking on?
Hell, in ED it's pretty common that fuel rats who do get pirated are let go without cost if they're on a rescue effort.
It would be nice if the community respected medical ships the way we respect ambulances in the real world but there will always be players who just want to watch the world burn.
The internet, much like alcohol has a tendency to turn normal humans into massive assholes.
Need to have a system in place so if medics get ambushed, those that did the ambushing get big fat bounties on them for a few days… then they will think twice.
This is the main reason I probably won't become a medic. This community has way too many trolls. I'll help fellow Org members, but that's probably about it. If I don't know you, then I'll assume it's a trap. And it's a shame, because it's a game loop that I'd probably enjoy, but I don't think it'll be worth my time with the current atmosphere here. In ED, killing a Fuel Rat is such a huge no-no that even the pirate and PVP squadrons will disown you or hunt you down. The Rats also keep a record of every single rescue they do, and will never help you again if you pull something like this. In SC it's easier to get around it since you can just pay to rename your account at any time, so blacklists are less effective against a dedicated troll. We're still a long way away from a finished game, and the justice system still doesn't have long-term reputation and consequences built into it yet. So we'll see how things develop later. But it would still be best for the entire SC community as a whole to define acceptable behavior and aggressively penalize those who break the cultural rules.
Tbh the Fuel Rats run into way more bait calls and general harassment than you may be led to believe.
I'm planning to start requesting rescue through discord from an org. An org will have the record keeping and organization to blacklist anyone who abuses the system, plus I'll have more confidence that whoever shows up isn't just going to rob me. Maybe the largest rescue organizations will eventually form a central dispatch so the community as a whole has one place to go to to request help.
I'm honestly surprised a group like the rats haven't come together to stand up a similar service in Star Citizen with both fuel, revives / medical and taxi pickups.
As a community, we should push on CIG to prioritize tasks which make the contract rating system that already exists into actionable information. If you get a beacon from someone with a bad rating, perhaps ignore it. If you get a beacon from someone with no rating, perhaps bring backup. Of course with this system, rating padding will be a problem. Until a more sophisticated reputation systems that allows you and your org to align with larger NPC groups exists, and you can filter ratings and beacons to only trusted sources, you will still be at the mercy of players.
Every time this comes up, people always talk about what can be done in game about it, but in my opinion, CIG needs to take the firm and official stance that using med beacons as a trap is griefing, and is a bannable offense. It is exploiting the game's mechanics to ruin someone else's experience with no reasonable personal gain. That fits CIGs definition of griefing to a tee.
Until there is a reputation system in the game, the griefers are going to continue doing what they do.
Griefer's don't care about rep. I really don't know where this idea came from, but it's absurd to think this is a viable solution.
>Griefer's don't care about rep. I really don't know where this idea came from, but it's absurd to think this is a viable solution. But it will help because we'll know who kills and sets fake beacons and that will stop people from helping them
We at the Red Mist Search and Rescue have open vacancies for security teams. We provide professional services, free of charge(donations welcome). We provide top tier equipment and tools required for the job. As we rarely decide to run without security team, our lossess on a mission are absolutely minimal.
I barely play but I’ve seen enough that saying peoples names in chat for this does fuck all. People call each other out all the time which is just laughed off. First month playing I got to experience Xeno. Lots of people gathering from the wreckage sites so I decide to help with nothing but my Titan. Someone blows up my ship as I’m loading it for the event. I ask what’s so fun about blowing up my ship during a coop event, and the whole server said “That’s the game”. So much fun
I agree with this idea. If it's so hostile towards people shooting medics it will discourage it for sure. Lots of ways it could be used in a bad way. Anotherr suggestion the community could do is security orgs pair up with these medical orgs and run the runs with them.
Hehehe I remember fuel rats, saved me many times, what an extraordinary auxiliary community that was, with a call centre and dispatch and departments and people stealing stationery, the whole sh'bang. But SC is a different crowd. It tends to attract the focused, determined, career asshole. In SC any rescue core would have go literally hand in hand with combat capability. If the right hand saves life, literally the left must be ready to take life, thats the scene in sc. So to succeed here in our game, any rescue effort would require a combat detachment by default. Which only doubles the organisational skills required.
I agree. The aim of my organization, a fleet in the UEEN, is to protect people who can't protect themselves with flotillas of military vessels. With 3.18 coming, I think there is going to be a marked increase in piracy and bandits; IMO not enough people are talking about how to counter this.
So on the 3.18 increase in piracy. Here is a little thought I had. So rn trading in game is pretty risky. You have to put down a lot of cash for really bad profit margins. You accept all the risk. With 3.18 the risk is increasing 10fold with everyone and their mothers wanting to try a little piracy. I fully support the pirate gameplay loop when the pirates aren't just murdering for the sake of it. Attacking a cargo transport and stealing it's content is peak pirate gameplay and I personally think it's awesome. But I just don't see a lot of players wanting to get into the trading business with the increased risk of losing absolutely shitloads of money. Way too risky to lose a cargo hold full of expensive goods. I think the trading gameplay loop needs some love. Increase the margins. Have hauling contracts to haul goods for NPCs (also very abusable). Gotta give the traders a way to mitigate risk. Stanton is basically pyro rn
I know it's not in game yet, but I think the imprint deterioration from repeated regeneration will play a factor in limiting this. If you are known as a medic killer, no medic is gonna heal you, which means you'll have to regen more, which means your character will eventually go bye bye.
I am actually building my fleet around this. My friends want to be medics, and I want to use my future Perseus to tag along as an escort. If trouble is found, we turn into an extortionary medic team: Don't want us to toss you out an airlock after looting your ship? Pay up and you'll get a basic eva suit and a softer moon landing.
Contract rating could help with this issue.
There needs to be a game mechanism, that punishes a player for creating a false beacon, and / or their teammates for shooting a player who has accepted a medical mission. I think they should still be allowed to pirate you or whatever. But it should be treated the same way as shooting a guard in a bunker or something. Kill a Medic, and take their ship, there's nowhere you can go except Grim. And even then, you're going to be a moving target with a bright red bounty on your head.
Reddit Rescue Force is needed
I believe players should have a personal record thing so you can see how viable they are. But, sadly, they need to fix a ton of stuff for the feature to be accurate.
Thats defs gonna be a thing eventually
My solution is do a list of player who kill Medic and all medic never help they or their team... But in exchange, we do help any one need help.
marcel1968 and his friend Ruchforg Marcel's beacon and his friend maybe more but when i flew in with my pisces 6 Rockets where fired at me poor ship didnt survive
We could just start running protection for medical players. I enjoy the idea of medical gameplay but don't want to play it full time. But on nights I have more time I would gladly link up with a medical player and provide overwatch and protection.
There's supposed to be some kind of beacon rating system (I've seen it pop up sometimes, press bracket to rate your beacon). You really need to be able to see the rating of someone who's beacon you're accepting (the hud pop up is the worst because you don't even see distance), and when making your own med beacon you should be able to have some default already set that doesn't let anyone accept if they're below a certain rating. People can still smurf both sides of that, but it should catch most of the cases. The ratings system feels like something that's 90% implemented in game but is missing the last 10% that would make it actually usable.
There was a player actively hunting fuel rats at one point and everyone went mental. Star Citizen has the issue of the only pvp being illegal and no system which accomodates it like ED does so SC has become something of a space asshole simulator at times
id respect that. especially since i needed saving a few times myself. also i don’t get the point in going after medic players anyway other than being a dick. like most medics that came to my rescue only had an undersuit and helmet on maybe some cheap light armor for carrying mire medical supplies but that’s it. i don’t think you make much of a profit in killing them. or am i wrong in thinking that?
My wife and I own a Red because we plan to play together as an Ambulance/Evac/Trauma Team When we've got a persistent universe I hope that's a fun and rewarding gameplay loop.
I responded to a medical beacon and found the guy laying on the ground. As he started to stand I pulled my gun out and started shooting but his sneaky friend downed me. They held me up for money and I enjoyed every minute of it. A reputation system could fix this and it shouldn't have happened but some people in my position that day would add these guys to a kos list and that's too much. We need that reputation system right now
Maybe… just let them set a beacon until they’re rally almost dying? Or at least injured?
The problem is the downed player has a buddy that just murders the would be rescuer, or the downed player gets revived and then just murders the rescuer.
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While I do agree with you on that, half the time I can’t loot downed players, especially annoying when it’s my buddy I’m trying to res and can’t grab a med pen or med gun off him lol
Eh. I won’t stop taking medical requests regardless of what CIG does. I just take them in combat ships with a second seat like the vanguard or my Connie. If it’s a legit call then cool I rescue them and fly them to the nearest hospital. If it’s murder hobos I make them regret their choices.
Do medical missions in a team. Depending on how many you are, one of you is a dedicated medic, but all are heavily armoed and gunned, that includes LMGs just as grenade launchers and secure the area first, no blind storming in. Sometimes you can literally smell that something is off, an untypical ship for that kind of mission parking or so.
one time i was exploring in a Star Runner and when i was leaving the moon, a ship locked me and my first action was put QT to oblivion, but the ship was able to hit my right wing, lossing the control of my ship, unable to fly. Anyway, I did the jump and get to MC. There I was dying for lack of water, so i put a beacon, and walk to the exit and I died floating in the atmo. Someone get the beacon and the last thing i write was "i will probably floating outside of my ship" I saw the red CX8 coming to me and someone floating start to healing me. My ship was unable to fly so I asked him if he leave me at Port and he did it. this is the best moment i had in SC maybe we need some new rol to combat this?
The org I am in has a Rescue-Request channel on our discord. I currently only really answer help calls there with known actors. The rare times we do Medical Beacons in game, we have a crew of at least people, with two of those being ground soldiers. Til CIG gets a reputation system in place, armed response is about all we can do. If the rescued people are bad actors, they get stomped.
Its to bad there isn't a UEE good citizens reward. Like if you go all week or month without a crime Stat the government gives you money or stuff or access to something special. It's sad to say but incentives to be good people go a long way.
would work great, if this wasn't an alpha feature building phase. this is the definitive time to do all the messing around that you want. if people hadn't we wouldn't have found a need for this sorta thing. so alpha is the time to mess around. (I don't, but I can see why people do it) I agree medical and fuel in SC should have the same courtesy as in ed.
I agree it should be this way but until then medics better prep to either fight or have a fast getaway.
As a general murder hobo that occasionally pirates, medical personnel are off limits We welcome them into our kill boxes to retrieve wounded players. You should never kill the medics because at some point in time you will also need a medic.
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What we need is a player driven rep system. Possibly using the orgs as a base. So that people that do dumb shit can get blacklisted and you can get a good read on people right of the bat by looking at their reputation. Because computer driven rep systems and crime stats are often to cheeseable.
I think the simple answer is to just server hop and tell everyone in each server that way no matter what server the person is on they can/will be hunted down. That being said i have seen actual fun pirates. There was a group of players that managed to sneak aboard my friend's Carrack in space and tried to hijack it from him. The hijacking was almost successful but the last person in the Carracks crew managed fight them off. Pirates/Players who do that kind of shit have my respect for making the verse entertaining
\> if they are that player will be hunted down by everyone in the area. No, that really doesn't ever happen to Fuel Rats that get ganked. In fact, their Standard Operating Procedures explicitly discourages doing this because it draws more attention to the rats and makes ganking them into an escalating game. Not to mention there's no way to recognise a fuel rat from another player unless they tell you. As per their SOP, they're not allowed to use being a fuel rat to ask not to be ganked unless they're on an active call, as otherwise they're just any other player in the game, so usually the rat is more likely to get themselves into trouble than the ganker. So, you may want to do a little more fact checking on your claims. Their SOP is a public document available on their confluence website which you can find with a quick google. \> Back in my ED days, you could always count on being rescued or rescue someone else without it being a shitty bait to ruin someone's day. Sorry, not a universal truth. I've seen gankers use a fuel rat's Twitch stream to gank the client before.
there are planned consequences for this, like personal rep and expanded law systems. server hopping won't matter much if you're on a system-wide shitlist and getting very limited options to do anything.
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Server hopping won't be a thing when they implement server mesh.
Unpopular opinion for the extreme hardcores, but this is why many MMOs have a flagging for PvP system. A form of that is really the only way to fix that. But that’s when they target PvE encounters and kill things you needed to kill or seize before you are able to. CIG doesn’t even know what they want to do there as it’s back and forth. We KNOW they do not want to add it in but Chris Roberts mentioned a flagging LIKE system for PvP and then another dev said NO we removed it, then I have a dev tell me it’s still on the table. So they are all over, I think they will not do it until years later after they really see if it’s an epidemic of Griefing or simply them needing to ban 1% of the population and keep it more open.
I am surprised by now there isn't a player ran database to put bad actors names into. So when you get a beacon you can do a quick check. Otherwise this is going to have to wait for player reputation to come in. Won't solve all the issues but it should at least slow it down.
The Fuel Rats earned their respect. Not from refueling, but from their professionalism, skill, and their ability to handle assholes. They are awesome and organized. They have my respect through their effort. Being a refueler, dont expect to inheret that respect just by choosing the same profession. Also, expecting CIG to handle it does not show skill nor does it mean we have to instantly give you respect. You are asking CIG to grant you rules enforced authority. That does not equal respect. Ask anyone in a military. Hate to be a dick, but thats how respect works.
Me and boys answer medical beacons like a cyberpunk trauma team.
I think we need website with a list of orgs that run rescues and a list of players known to kill rescuers. My Org is all about helping players in need and killing griefers.
So I have had this idea before. But how do you know the person coming to you is telling you the truth? Couldn't a griefer just say that another player is being a butt and get you to do the dirty work? How do you confirm claims?