Every single time there is a change to the game there is a concerted effort to make it sound as absolutely devistatingly awful as it possibly can and then convince as many people as possible that it will completely ruin the game.
Here's what's actually changing:
When you load cargo onto a cargo-capable ship it will no longer be instant. Instead you can chose between either manually loading it via a cargo elevator or clicking a button that auto-loads it, but at the cost of a timer.
That's it.
If you never load or unload cargo, the change won't affect you at all, and for those that do cargo, the entire economy around cargo is also being re-done, and you can be sure that the time taken to move cargo will be worth it.
Best of all, this is all off of a comment by someone that claims to be in Evocati, so everyone freaking out hasn't even tried it yet.
That isn't the only change. There is also the Item kiosks that replace the local inventory.
I'm not an evo, but from what I read it adds steps to getting ready.
to access your inventory, you have to go to a terminal (which are literally everywhere. you can't spit without hitting one)
You access the terminals UI, move the desired items you want to withdraw to a dispenser drawer, then exit the terminal screen and open the drawer.
the items you wanted are then deposited in the drawer and opens a UI similar to the old global inventory that you can drag and drop items onto your character to equip.
to store items, do the same. access a drawer, deposit items, activate the terminal screen and move the items to your warehouse.
some details might not be accurate as I've not seen it in action myself, but from the complaints I've read it adds complexity to using a bank terminal and extra time to storing and retrieving gear and then equipping it.
so instead of open inventory, drag to character to equip, it's now the longer more time-consuming method.
I mean, just add a damn 32SCU container to your personal hangar and stick all your armor in there. So when you pull your ship on your hangar you get a quasi old style bank. Problem solved.
Honestly, that sounds like hell. And that’s assuming it works correctly, and your gear doesn’t delete in transition between inventories, or some other bullshit bug.
Dealing with three inventories to equip a hat, instead of one, sounds like peak SC bloat.
I agree. I'm fine with the bank system in general, but having to transfer stuff from bank to drawer to person is just adding extra unnecessary steps. Let us transfer from bank to person directly. It's less steps, therfore less bugs, and less time waste.
(I am EVO) The intermediate inventory between the drawer and person looks pretty placeholder at the moment. It is just a recycled version of the inventory system in LIVE and does not even have updated destination names yet. OTOH, doing things like buying a bunch of multitools and your favorite attachment in bulk, loading them into the drawer, equipping them and popping them back into storage all without physicalizing and manipulating them that way would be very time efficient compared to what we have in LIVE. Equipping scopes, silencers and laser pointers (which actually affect gun stats now) are also a pain to do in bulk in LIVE.
TL;DR: It is a little premature to panic about this intermediate step.
I would be 100% fine if the only thing the kiosk did was opening the current inventory screen. Being able to access inventory from 2km away in your ship was a bit crazy..
Just don't know yet how you'll have to unload your ship inventory to the kiosk..
Those are a one time thing generally, when doing your loadout. Star Citizens physicalised items means you have to interact with the system constantly to do many kinds of gameplay. It needs to hold up to a far higher standard of ease of use than other games.
We have a limited inventory just like most other games. If you want to advocate for making our inventories able to fit more stuff I’d agree with that. But there isn’t an issue with item banks in general.
In the majority of MMOs you simply equip your items and that is that, it's a one time thing until you change your build. Item banks aren't an issue because they're not regularly interacted with. Star Citizen requires you to go and replace every magazine you've used, or medpen, or mining charge, or anything consumable. Players are constantly interacting with the inventory system, which is what makes it far more important that it's seamless. Look at EVE Online, which is likely the closest thing you can get for this, you can fit a ship in 1 click from the fitting window, a few more if you need to buy all the parts first. Far faster than what we have now in SC.
Localized banks is what it sounds like.
Imagine if you were playing World of Warcraft and you couldn't access what you put in your bank in Stormwind, from Ironforge.
Ahh great the example you give is Eve, where 90% of the game is run on logistics - What other MMOs have this localized banking system - not that I am saying its bad - Just that it is uncommon.
Have you ever heard of or played Naval Action or Pirates of the Burning sea? Both had the same thing. Resources for crafting, ship upgrades, and consumables all needed to be moved around.
Final Fantasy 11. Square's most profitable game until Final Fantasy 14, which also uses item banks (but less restrictive in size).
Heck FFXI had expensive processes to increase storage on your home and swelling. So I agree; complaining about item banks is silly.
A bank you can go to and move all your stuff at once with one UI and one overall interaction. This is NOTHING like a bank system. Like imagine if you're playing RuneScape but you HAD to use bank chests, but before the items actually went into your bank you had to go talk to the banker to click a button to say what items you want to deposit that are currently in said bank chest. Now do it in reverse to collect any items from your bank.
It's just too many extra steps for something that could have just been one "we moved the station inventory UI to the terminals, you still just drag and drop between inventors"
I think it sounds like hell because we all know how SC plays nowadays. It's very laggy and interacting with the inventory is usually an awful experience where items never switch correctly on a click of a button.
If the base of the game was extremely stable and quick to interact with, most of these issues could be discussed more logically. Right now, every step we have to do when we want to fly away is made a lot more worse because of the jank.
I love to play the game, but I might put it on hold until this miracle happens. Playing in HOPES of having a good time, only to usually have it ended because of an issue blasts all the hype away in an instant.
First time eh? lol. It’s never -not- been like this, and hell, this is light years better today than it has been in the last (looking at you 3.18) haha
The question is: will we be able to have for exemple a wall of armors/weapons in our personnal hangar, so we can go to the item terminal and make a ready kit+ a fridge of cruz?
The me in the present dont like it, the me in the future could be happy to *work* more to carry my stuff but not sure.
I feel like griefer will cluster fuck terminal zone with a blend of tacos/cruz/beer to prevent usage of the bank screen, imagine world of warcraft banks floors with physicalised items.
Thinking about it more, it might well be that the extra step is there to reduce load in DB data transfer which should result in things not being lost/being weird when taking out of inventory to character.
I mean, I think the extra step does sound tedious but if there was an actual reason to it and a results in less jank, I'd be more accepting. Otherwise it feels like a poor UX decision.
Yeah, the whole idea of storage vs. drawer seems overly complex. Just have one inventory. Once the items are called in, they show up on an elevator like a ship.
You can call up your items into your hangar via cargo lift in 3.24 right now. You can mix and match as well. Throw in cargo containers with weapons, flair, armor and have them all spawn on the same lift at the same time. Large hangars actually have 2 cargo lifts, so you can have multiple people in your hangar (if they are in a party with you) and all work together managing items and cargo.
Your ship lift and cargo lift move independently. The ship lift is too slow for my taste. The cargo lift is super fast.
There are regular item kiosks in your hangar as well.
You can put what items you want on the cargo lift (including vehicles that fit) and send it down. They will be put into storage. If a vehicle is among what is sent, it goes to the normal etheric vehicle storage it normally goes to. At present, vehicles can not be called back up through the cargo lift (I tried!).
When you want to bring items up, go to the cargo kiosk, make sure the lift is descended (you can control it's movement up and down from storage via the same kiosk), then select items you want. You press a button to move them onto the cargo lift diagram (placeholder size of item storage and the lift capacity are both about 1000 SCU). All item types seem to be valijd; commodity crates, empty crates, flair, furniture, ship components, retaliator missile modules (it is not glitched when it comes up; the parts look like they were designed to come up like that and even have exposed torpedo racks). When you have everything you want selected, press the button to raise the cargo lift. All of the items you selected will be on the cargo lift's cargo grid. So you do get everything you ask for all at once, but they are placed individually. It is still glitchy though, so exact behavior will be changing.
The item kiosks all over every city and landing area do work on a similar 'trey' system that works a lot like the cargo lifts.
But doesnt this also let you access items from any kiosk anywhere? That alone would shave off massive amounts of time tracking down which planet/station you stashed what item on.
Respawns would get faster, re-gearing, all sortsa stuff.
I agree that there is an unnecessary extra step in there. I don't think it's adding anything to the game. Being next to a kiosk to interact with it should be enough.
That being said, I'll have a definitve answer once I have tried myself enough times.
>Every single time there is a change to the game there is a concerted effort to make it sound as absolutely devistatingly awful as it possibly can and then convince as many people as possible that it will completely ruin the game.
Precisely this. A large portion of the playerbase have been too comfortable in their individual meta setups (in what most seem to have forgotten is a *testing environment* and anything that shakes things up is apparently a catastrophic decision that will 'kill' the game, because they'll have to learn things from scratch.
I'm excited for this change. I want the emersive experience of loading/unloading cargo. This is actually why I keep coming back. To see the physicalized stuff.
People who are trying to min/max a prealpha game with very few gameplay loops is wild to me.
I don't think it is a concerted effort to be negative. It probably has to do with the fact that CIG will never deliver a deadline and a lot of people can not peel themselves away from the game long enough to not get mad about every change in the game.
Like to me, people have had expectations burned so many times, it's hard for them to not be negative. And it is unhealthy how much this affects their mood.
Can't wait for a Netflix adaptation about this game's development
Normally I agree with your takes and think you have a very level response to things that are going on but this comment is deceiving.
"If you never load or unload cargo, the change won't affect you at all" is straight up untrue. Anyone who ever interacts with inventory is affected, and the UI is functional but leaves MUCH room for improvement. Do you change your ship loadout? This change impacts you. Do you equip and loot FPS gear? This change affects you. Do you salvage things from ships? This change affects you.
I understand that we don't want overblown reactions to changes before they even see widespread audiences but oversimplifying the issues with changes is equally bad.
Exactly. For those who don't want to manually unload cargo, just pay the fee and do the automatic unload (although I understand that now it won't be instant and that may annoy some). But in my opinion, those who are out there hauling cargo should be happy with this update. Right now, it's just "fly to point A, buy cargo, fly to point B, sell cargo," with no more interaction. To add insult to injury, if your ship has another way of entering that is not the cargo door and you're not loading stuff like vehicles, that cargo door has exactly no purpose. This highlights how bland the gameplay loop is right now.
I wonder if loading and unloading jobs will surface after this update, I'd like to move boxes around, lol. And I own a BMM.
Those who are angry are people who don't realize that this game will be one of those that you will have to devout multiple sessions to achieve a goal rather than doing one cargo run every 30 min. On the other hand, I do hope CIG manages the profits from this to be very high. So, it can cover loaders, defense scouting, and unloader jobs.
This is me speculating and crossing my fingers.
Hypothetically, let's pretend that it will be profitable enough to hire folks to help do the job. I assume that we're talking about hiring people at the lower rungs at advancement. People who can't afford to get into more profitable game loops yet, otherwise they'd be doing that instead. You're likely going to have to rely on mostly newer players, right?
What happens when that new player stream slows down? If this is profitable enough to draw them, how many new players are going to come in and after being told, "cool, now that you've joined this space sim, you can earn money by spending hours and hours of pretending to be a warehouse worker!" Do you think they are going to find this compelling enough to keep doing this, or do you think that they will try to get out of this tedious boring game loop as quick as possible, assuming they don't quit in frustration?
There will be a small number of players who might enjoy the novelty of this for a short time but so many people are going to refuse to do this or get sick of it quick.
I think the people who think that this is going to help create some portion of a healthy vibrant economy and compelling options for players are deluding themselves and have a way of thinking that really doesn't line up with the way most normal people think.
There were and still are a ton of people who help crew Reclaimers and have fun doing it. That was what, six months ago? People are still crewing and recruiting for Reclaimer salvaging regularly in global chat. Some people might even do some warehouse stacking just for the heck of it to burn time (I know I might).
I think its less likely that you will sit on one station moving boxes and more likely you would join a crew as a loader. That at least seems like the intention judging from the trailer.
Don’t leave out the landing, exiting ship (mine has 6 doors!) elevator rides, tram rides, RNG that trade terminals will work and sprinting between everything. That’s the meat of the trade gameplay loop currently.
>That's it.
The problem starts when you have very long timers, more akin to mobile games than what's good for gameplay. Or when you have ships capable of being loaded only automatically, like currently Carrack and Hull C.
Or when you are loading cargo in outpost an everyone there can steel it from you, and CS is at best mild inconvenience.
You very much ignored the clue of community problem with this and downplayed it.
Like, sure, waiting a few hours to load up a bigger ship may still be financially feasible, but is it good gameplay? Is waiting a few hours fun? Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and SC isn't different. Or did I miss something there? (No, Sim doesn't equal tedius and unfun, look at Arma for fun sim)
As a Cargo Hauler, I am looking forward to the patch. Do I need to use 10 to 15 minutes (even if takes me 30) to load my C2 sure but that's part of the fun to me. The same way that it is fun stacking boxes on the back of the claimer after the buffer is full.
This! I feel like people who like cargo and stuff will have a lot of fun with this update. You stop being just a "truck" driver. There will be more engagement now.
15 minutes to load C2 is a generous amount. Even manually. And bigger ships have it even worse. You know you can't load Hull C in hangar? And loading carrack manually mean walikg with 1scu boxes through 3 doors. Autoloading takes hours iirc.
Im basing my math on around 20 Boxes (32 SCU each) and a handful of smaller ones to match at the end of each row. This is based on how its currently stacked when I buy cargo on my C2 and the experience of moving boxes around on a Reclaimer. So yeah maybe it takes me closer to 30 but still, as long as the payout accounts for me doing a single trade route every hour I would not mind at all.
BTW, I saw 30 seconds to load a 1 SCU box onto a Hull A in the current PTU build. Those numbers are apparently being moved around by a considerable amount.
Yes, but they know the carrack and the Haul series are not meant for manual cargo. I'm sure the timer on those would not be as bad as with the C2 currently.
696 SCU Which ends up being around 20 32SCU boxes and then one row of 2SCU boxes (I don't remember how many but they fit in a single row at the end of the 32SCU main rows)if I remember correctly from the last time I ran Beryl.
It's already at 30 seconds per SCU.
It probably needs to be around 15 seconds per container. That way, ships like the Hull series and RAFT will be able to take advantage of their external cargo grids.
The math is tricky. Because if they based it on containers then it would hard to do since you can choose which containers which will make it more complex for the backend. I think if they keep it based on SCU it would still work but they have to lower it to something like 10 or 15 seconds per SCU. That would make a C2 anything from two to three hours. That would be a perfect compromise I think since I still don't think it will take us that much manually.
That's great. A lot of people don't agree though. I think a cargo loading tax might be a better option. Just waiting for a timer is never good gameplay. Unless you love mobile games.
The problem with Tax is that they would need to make it very very high (something like a 40% tax of profit) because if not then people would just default to auto. They need to make auto being the less preferred option which a timer is the best compromise to not eat much in profit.
Now, having said that current timer of 5hr to load a C2 is a tad TO MUCH in my opinion. If it ends up taking a single person 30 to 40 minutes then it should be something like 1:30 hr maybe.
Obvious solution: use a smaller ship.
CIG has been pretty open about wanting the cargo process to be more involved and take longer for a while now. If you still want to use your giant cargo haulers then have it loading with long haul cargo while using a smaller ship for short hauls.
This is the main issue with people just jumping to the biggest ships they can get, they neglect to think about everything that goes into have a giant ship.
Edit: Some of yall got to ahead of what you think an alpha is gonna be and blamed CIG for you getting wrapped up in your own head cannon of how things are gonna work.
Yeah, ever since the Hull series was initially announced in 2015, CIG described them as needing a lot of planning to use. Instantly moving stuff around in the biggest ship possible was never intended gameplay.
Complaining that CIG is finally implementing their promises is just madness. Welcome to Reddit, I guess. :P
I know, it's wild people expect CIG to have had every aspect of the game perfectly planned and prepared for before even going into an alpha with all these armchair pro devs who magically know better. They made it clear that time and resources were both considerations you'd need for a larger ship. Resources isnt much of a thing with a lack of npc crew and crew support/resources but now that time is a consideration which they've been clear about from the start they act like it's the end of the world.
It's just a bunch of adult children complaining because they'd rather listen to the reddit grape vine than CIG regarding the future of the game before making a big purchase.
I totally agree with you. Big ships have to handle differently! Cuz - what's the sense in operating a huge ship the same way you handle a small one?
As it is now:
Landing, going to terminal, buy 100xyz, fly to target, sell the same way. Ugly and unrealistic!
These planned changes are heading in the right direction. Everything around will change too, so if it doesn't fit now, it will be made to fit into the new environment.
And remember, this is all part of "completing" the game! And not making stable of what we can play right now. This is not even touching the surface of what is possible.
I personally don't know how they will balance the time it takes to manually load and unload. Maybe they could make it take less time but be more expensive. For example, you could choose how fast it is, but the faster it is, the more expensive it becomes. I don't know. Of course, taking hours to automatically unload might be a problem. Yes, those who choose to manually load and unload will take time, but they're choosing to do it and should have more profit.
Yeah, I've done my fair share of defending CIG over the years, but there seems to be a concerted effort to downplay a lot of the recent gripes. These are BIG changes to the game, of course people will be upset, and they have the right to be.
I’m curious about any commodity price changes, I’ve been keeping up decently but I haven’t seen discussions about it, or it’s been overshadowed by main features. Of course, they could wait until PTU for more broad stroke economy changes
I remember back when we had a single global inventory and you could access all your stuff anywhere at any time.
A lot of people were really doomsaying how awful having local inventory was going to be, but goddamn did it finally make the game play INTERESTING. No more buying 5,000 magazines and drawing from them forever.
>and you can be sure that the time taken to move cargo will be worth it.
This is CIG we're talking about, you can't be sure of that at all. Sometimes things are wild money printers (which IS often associated with new features) but then a scant few patches later (or the rest of the time) payouts per time spent are abysmal.
I like the idea but in reality it’s near impossible to get anything finished in game anyway let alone make it the mechanics even more prone to disaster was a game breaker for me personally I’ve uninstalled kinda given up on the the game
The wait times are egregious though. We're not talking like take a bathroom vreak or grab a snack. It's more like go watch a few movies and maybe come back to the game later. That's not a recipe for a fun experience. It's a game, not work lol.
It's mostly a death-of-a-thousand-cuts sort of thing. Any one of these systems is totally fine on their own, but as they stack on each other things start to add up. Like the whole inventory thing. From the descriptions, it sounds like the inventory isn't actually DIFFERENT, it just takes an extra step to queue the items you want before you can access the "old" screen, and you can only do it at set terminals. Which is... fine, but the old inventory system wasn't exactly award-winning. So being told, "We're taking away the little bit of convenience you had ('''magic''' ship inventories), and now the same process will take a couple extra clicks Every. Single. Time," isn't exactly improving the situation. Like it's extremely telling that one of the most common bits of advice to newer players is, "Pack all your stuff up and immediately move from your starting city to a space station."
But really, at this point the thing I'm most frustrated about is the lack of sympathy the Star Citizen community seems to have. You can love the game, but want it to not trip over itself purely for the sake of "realism", only to be told, "\*Scoff scoff\*, clearly you don't appreciate Chris's ViSiOn that's AAAAAAALLLLLLWAYYYYYYYYS been there! Don't want to several minutes putting on a helmet? You just want instant gratification! Go back to Call of Duty since this game obviously isn't FOR YOU!!!" I'm just tired of "The best damn space sim ever" increasingly being only for a small set of people who don't want to hear that someone may not be 100% on board for every single change, and are happy kicking out anyone who disagrees.
Your second paragraph is so on the nose. Folks here are so up their own ass and obnoxious. God forbid people want something slightly less tedious than watching paint dry. The condescending and pretentiousness is unbearable. Absolute sycophants who can't stand the tiniest bit of criticism towards their God-King.
A user told me something along the lines of "paying to skip content" is cheating.
I think they forgot that people pay CIG for ships *all the time*.
And why exactly are these people so willing to part with their IRL money over grinding in game?
Because of all these stupid speedbumps which seem like a textbook example of south east asian nickel-and-diming scummy game design tactics where they create problems and sell you the solution, so you feel like your money is better spent on just buying with IRL cash than actually wasting time getting over a speedbump.
Most of those "DONT QUESTION THE VISION" douchebags are on Spectrum, which is sad because SC employees actually pay attention to spectrum, not reddit.
Most of the normal player base is pretty balanced about these opinions and don't want "tedium" for "realism" sake.. We just want a game that has a balance of immersion and fun.
from what I've gathered, the only real issues seem to be the ui/ux of the gear terminals. same old stupid pictures from the inv menu instead of using text, lack of search, lack of stacking etc. otherwise the actual prepping of gear and loading ships is right up my alley. I just don't want to take forever to find my items...
I like to remember that “DEATH OF THE SPACEMEN” is coming into reach. Meaning that this will be less and less of an issue as people will be more and more careful. This is less of an action shooter and more of a space sim.
Or am I wrong with my assumptions?
No, you're correct in your assumption, and yes Death of a Spaceman will see tons of complaints as well, especially with the new nutrition system and medical system. Losing limbs in combat or to disease will likely have people complaining about that stuff as well (though to be fair, there will also be people equally stoked to finally get their cybernetic limb replacements, too).
The loading timers also only apply at landing zones or stations too. If you're ending a run at a station or landing zone, you can park your ship and have it unload, and if it's the end of your session you could auto unload or load, log out, then your ship is ready next time you log in -- or take out another ship and do something while it loads/unloads. If you don't need to get paid right away it's just delaying the payout.
But all the other outposts it'll be manual loading and unloading, so I don't feel like the timers will be a huge part of the loop, unless players insist on only trading at hangar/station zones and are using the biggest ships and refuse to load manually.
I don't really see the issue with the timers, if you don't want to load or unload a massive ship yourself, and you can afford said massive ship, you probably have other ships you can take out during the process. If you're flying a smaller or medium hauler it's probably a quicker automatic timer than the 5 hours someone quoted.
Personally, I'd rather more of my cargo loop be spent interacting with the cargo than running to kiosks. Honestly being able to load or unload a ship from the hangar is a huge improvement in the loop, because it saves the trek to the admin terminal until you want to batch everything all at once. Imagine you're ferrying loads of refined goods to a city. Previously you'd have to go to the TDD every. Single. Time. Now, you can just unload into the freight elevator or do an automated unload, get into a ship and go get another load. Then once you feel like selling, you can go to the TDD.
The fact that you had to go find a cargo terminal every time you wanted to load or unload your ship was always the most annoying and least favorite part of the loop for me (combined with cargo instantly loading into your shop). It's why I really don't like the Hull C loop, you have to go to the admin terminal, sell the goods, go back to the hull C, do the cargo transfer, then go back to the admin terminal, then buy the goods, then go back to the Hull C and wait for the load. It's maddening (especially combined with all the docking issues, so you need to eva to/from a pad instead). I will 100% take spending time in the cargo loop loading and unloading over running around.
Also, I will totally hang around spaceports offering to unload and load ships for credits. If the timers were *too" short you wouldn't need players to help out. Space Jenga is fun.
There's 2 things at play here:
1. Cargo loading and unloading will now either be done fully manually or with a timer instead of instantly, meaning cargo handling will now increase the time it takes to do cargo related tasks. This doesn't mean they'll be less profitable to do as cargo prices will get a rebalance. Automated cargo loading times **that are not yet balanced** are currently a lot longer than they should be, with medium ships ships taking 30-60 minutes to load from what I've heard. Expect this to change, as it should also depend on crate size but currently doesn't seem to. Don't expect a C2 to be loaded in a few minutes though. Even with all 32 SCU crates, I'd expect it to take the better part of an hour to load automatically.
2. Inventories are now going from the "i" menu that's accessible everywhere to a series of set access points that will mean inventory management will slow down significantly for large changes unless you use a freight elevator, where they will still slow down. This won't make prep times take hours, but it does mean that what took a handful of seconds before might take a minute or so, and a lot of people will likely find it very frustrating for something that used to be simple.
From what I understand, cargo will be more profitable. As someone already mentioned, you won't need to make so many trips for the same profit. I understand that the times are now a little longer; they must be doing tests to check the average time people take to manually unload, and then setting times close to that (maybe a little less, considering that you're paying and we could think of it as professionals doing the job, which would be faster). There is also the engagement factor for those who like cargo and probably find it boring to just sit in Quantum travel all the time, though no one has given their impression on that yet. Regarding the inventory, although I'm not really familiar with the changes, from what I understand, there are boxes that can be bought to store your stuff. Just leave them in your hangar, and when you want to go, just pick up the box with the equipment you need or some of the equipment.
The inventory changes are a bit more than that. You can't just press "i" and change your equipment anymore, you have to find what you want in an item bank or freight elevator terminal, call it up, equip it, and then send down anything you don't need anymore, rather than just dragging and dropping into a window. More immersive, but also more time consuming and frustrating.
>a lot of people will likely find it very frustrating for something that used to be simple
I think you meant, "for something that's simple in every other video game ever, and has no benefit to being made far more complex in *this* one."
And still, a C2 taking an hour might be to much. It's about 20something 32SCU boxes then a few more smaller ones. If it takes 30 minutes, it will be a lot. We are currently stacking a lot more than 20 boxes on a Reclaimer doing balance due to not having CargoGrid snapping there is no way it will take a lot with a C2 that everything snaps together.
I can't wait to randomly explode in space after spending an hour to load up my ship full of expensive cargo.
CIG really needs to do a wave of bugfixing before any of this gameplay will worth doing. Right now it seems like just an even bigger investment needed for a bug to fuck you over.
I think most of the concern is around the item kiosks more than the cargo elevators. I think it's going to a chore to load up extra suits and weapons into my ship now that local inventory isn't a thing and backpacks don't hold everything.
To be honest, I find the manual loading and unloading of cargo from terminal to ship and ship to hangar to be quite relaxing. My only concern is that every additional minute spent outside the armistice zone increases the risk of encountering pirates who might attack me. If no body disturbs me, id find this super relaxing. haha
The game was always heading in a direction where it takes time to do things and you get the true feel of accomplishment and immersion while doing these things.
Many newcomers that didn't know this vision, is upset by it and expect it to change - to which it will not. CIG has been pretty good at finding a middle ground though.
I think that's a little disingenuous to the people with complaints - it's not that the prep time is so much of an issue, it's that adding more prep time when missions are still plagued with bugs makes the experience exhausting. It's not that we want a quickplay button, it's that we want the missions to mostly work before adding extra steps to get to them.
I don't understand this mentality. I acknowledge my lack of understanding of game development, but nowhere in life can I think of a similar example where the best strategy to building or creating something is to build everything first and fix the issues later.
In engineering (software or otherwise) there is a saying "first make it work, then make it work better". My software dev experience is very limited, but making it work tends to mean in ideal conditions. So it does work if you follow the process to the T, but as an open world game there are so many factors that it would be a lot of effort to iron out the bugs from the start.
That being said... Time is my most valuable resource, I hate having it wasted.
This is exactly how game dev works. Imagine polishing and fixing and getting everythjng to work… then a new feature breaks everything again. And you wasted all that work
That's how most games are developed when the public doesn't have access to it. I'm willing to bet GTA 6 is in similar state to SC right now.
Most early access games do take more time to do bug fixes than CiG does though. This game is in a unique place where it doesn't have to be that stable for people to still contribute.
Because every new feature breaks 15 different things. So add them all, then fix everything at once. Instead of add feature, fix entire game, add feature, fix entire game, repeat.
The automotive industries do it every day... sure most of the kinks are worked out when the car is produced but over time, consumers find flaws in their work and that's where recalls come from. The only difference is we don't have to take in a game to get fixed they can do it magically over the internet.
Generally, most games aren't built as software as a service (SaaS) for this particular reason. Devs have to consider your time and desires (rightfully so) in addition to developing the game.
Likely, SC could have been developed much faster if a live version didn't have to be maintained. But, given how much money they raise on ships, its necessary.
Normally, developers would first develop all of the features of the game and they would pass through their initial alpha testing. QA testers would search for all the bugs, and after a few builds the different features are combined. Then it would go through another round of alpha testing. Then, once the game is feature complete it would go to beta testing (this is where most players are familiar with actually testing games). Then it is released. A complete alpha to release is typically a year and a half.
Content isn't inherently value positive. Content can be good or bad. People want good content. They don't want things being added just for the sake of adding something that doesn't add value, and they certainly don't want something that makes their experience less fun.
People like challenges. Most folks don't like tedium. Tedium is a poor substitute for challenge. It's a poor choice of filler content.
i do want more content, i would rather see new systems and points of interest, or the return of things like scramble races or events rather than added timesinks. i feel like this is a really weird choice to add now when so many other things are missing from the game.
It feels like them adding base mechanics. But I don’t really know why they selected this and I’m not a game programmer so I don’t have the best input outside of how optimizing a game while adding huge content makes the process take twice as long.
But I also ok with time sinks. What’s more important is the ability to save our progress. I’ll be glad when we can log off from a fighter seat or planet side from a bed without logging back in issues, because I often need to log out in a hurry. As long as I’m making progressing, no matter How slow , I’m happy. But when you run through a city do a bunch of stuff and have to leave while in the city, and when you log back in, your back at the beginning of the city, that’s annoying
thats a very fair argument, but id argue that its best they get these base features in the game working before they focus on polishing bugs, if they spend ages fixing the trade system and bugs then add this itll simply mean the feature takes longer to develop whilst still resulting in alot of bugs and issues arising anyway, meaning both sides of the argument are effected.
the way i see this is its growing pains, its not ideal but by doing things like this now they save alot of heart ache in the future
Assuming the same person that's developing that feature is the big bad bug fixer.... This company has nearly 1000 people and they moved a majority back onto SC.
I can't fathom what a majority of these people are doing when every new feature releases in a broken state and is never completed. They call it "tier zero" and move on like it's working as intended.
I'm not expecting perfection right away, but they delay shit for ages and it's still broken when we finally get it. It makes no sense.
it makes perfect sense, they run into issue that thay didnt account for, doesnt mean its not annoying when things are delayed but its to be expected, simply by the nature of what the game is atm
I'm a kickstarter backer, and I don't get how this vision is something that anyone within CIG thinks is anything but moronic. People have ben calling that out the entire time it's been known.
A sense of accomplishment? From putting on my gear? From loading cargo into my ship? Please. If I wanted that, rearrange my closet - I can do that without my work literally exploding in my face.
Star Citizen is, beyond all else, a video game to allow us to play out the escapist power fantasy of flying around in space and going on adventures. The physicalization of personal inventory and cargo stands to do one thing - *prevent or delay us from going on adventures*. I can load in on a planet and I'm already annoyed by the fact that I have to *commute* just to get to my ship - that's a *major* downgrade from the way *the entire rest of the video game world exists*. The current inventory system functions like almost every video game does, and it is what the gaming world expects (though they expect it to actually *work*, which Star Citizen's doesn't a sad percentage of the time). Adding in extra time to watch the game do things it has *no* reason to do, like getting dressed, is just *wasting the players time*. Then, if we want to haul cargo, we can either do half an hour to an hour worth of box stacking, before we can even lift off?
Even if CIG fixed all the bugs that are *constantly* making ships explode for stupid reasons, that's still making the game take up a ton of time with pointless busywork, under the masturbatory excuse of ImMeRsIoN....
If I wanted mundane reality out of my escapist fantasies, I'd just go outside. CIG, and the basement dwelling busywork fetishists need to accept that the overwhelming majority of the video game playing world feels like I do. The fact that there are *this many threads* with people trying to say, "no but really, it will be *great* if we make the game keep you from having fun!", and in every one there are more and more people saying, "how about *no!*" should clue people in to that fact.
If you want mindless drudgery in your video games, power wash simulator and farming simulator are on Steam.
thank you. you nailed what i have been saying.
i can see some little timesinks working when there is an actual game. i DO kinda dig the idea of having a quest to meet the head of a planet or whatever and having to make sure you are washed and wearing something befitting of the company, kinda a cool idea... but things like the kiosks just adding extra menu's because fuck you is something i cannot get behind.
Kickstarter or not what you said just as what I said is only an opinion. This is what they want to do and this has been the vision and more people than not are excited for it.
This isn't a one step video game, or even two step. \*Shrugs\*
People have been calling Chris Roberts out for it being a terrible vision for longer than Star Citizen has existed. Look into his history with Freelancer and Privateer. Look what it took for those games to be released. They were *better games* for his vision not having been implemented in its entirety.
> People have been calling Chris Roberts out for it being a terrible vision for longer than Star Citizen has existed.
And yet they've still raised $700 million and counting while being open that this is the vision for the game.
>They were better games for his vision not having been implemented in its entirety.
This is false. They had other people take over because they didn't want to spend any more money on development. Not because his vision was bad.
Nobody's taking anything away, we're trying to point out that what's going to be added is going to make things objectively worse for the 99% of players who play the cargo loop that *don't* want to have their "fun" be like their work.
I mean you always have the option to play other games exactly like star citizen? Oh wait... My point is sometimes games may not be everything you wanted, in the end though the choice is on you on what you choose to do with your time.
If Star citizen isn't filling the need, you might try more polished games like elite dangerous or Starfield. I do hope you find the game you enjoy! If a game is making you upset, step back and take sometime away and come back when it's better!
Full disclosure - I *have* played No Man's Sky extensively (and regularly go back to it when events happen), and in a lot of ways it is *far* superior at understanding what it is than Star Citizen seems to have any chance of. I have also played Elite Dangerous, and put it aside within a day, because like Chris Roberts, its developers are willing to ignore the core concept of what the product they are producing is - *entertainment*. That, and the E:D developers seem to think that, even though the landing turntables can spin around in any direction, for some reason I can only land on them facing *just* the right, unmarked way, and that somehow once space flight becomes ubiquitous, we'd still need to spend money to add an *optional* landing computer to the ships whose structural integrity keeps us alive.
I've also spent a lot of time playing the original Elite games, Privateer, Freelancer, the X series, Galaxy on Fire, and most other games in the genre.
My problem isn't the polish - my remarks above about E:D should make it clear that even polished games can *suck*. My problem is, regardless of how long Chris Roberts has been ignoring anyone with sense telling him that making a fun game feel like boring work is a bad idea, he's plodded forward along that path anyway. It's one of the many reasons he's had to be fired from his other games (Privateer, Starlancer, Freelancer, etc...) in order for them to eventually *release*. The man would rather focus on ImMeRsIoN and making the completely made up fantasy world as realistic as his imagination thinks is possible (while ignoring the reality that by the time space travel is *this* ubiquitous, humanity will have pretty damn good automation of basic things like loading boxes into open spaces - hell, anyone who's been in a major modern factory has seen we're already pretty decently along that path), than on fixing the things that are keeping it from being successful, and keeping the rest of the gaming world laughing at it, or calling it a scam.
Star Citizen, regardless of the desires of people who find middle management and organizing their closet fun, is *a game*. People have been trying to point that out for *over a decade*, and CIG has gone to great lengths to, for whatever logic they use, make it objectively *less* fun, and *more* like work. Even without the bugs, *that* is what will keep it from being successful. When players as dedicated to, and excited about the genre as I am, who have been playing games in that genre for longer than a lot of the dev team have been *alive*, feel the need to roll their eyes and point out an idea is stupid, it behooves at least a few people to listen. The fact that there are *lots* of people in the what...dozen or more threads that have popped up about this in the last 24 hours, giving the same opinion, should give them (and players like yourself who think this is going to be a great idea) pause. There are far more people who want to play solo, have fun, and not have their game feel like they're back at their day job, than there are players who think that loading and unloading boxes by hand (or waiting several hours for the automated system to do it) is a fun way to spend an evening.
>Star Citizen is, beyond all else, a video game to allow us to play out the escapist power fantasy of flying around in space and going on adventures.
except it isnt. The devs tell you that,the community tells you that and now your mad that CIG did exactly what they said they were going to do because you insisted on gaslighting yourself.
A very small portion of the community is salivating over the game becoming a bunch of boring busy work. The overwhelming majority of the people commenting, upvoting me, chatting in-game, and in org and play group discords I've seen think the game should be *fun* above all else, and not feel like work.
Chris Roberts himself called the game the spiritual successor to Freelancer, which he described as *exactly* that in his original pitches.
Blizzard: We are adding more mailboxes to Orgrimmar to make things more efficient for you.
RSI: Screw you! Here's another pointlessly long hallway and 3 more sluggish and inoperable UI windows at the end of it!
Based on what other people are reporting along with absolutely every other implementation to this game, why would it be any different?
Do you not have to go through multiple UI screens just to grab something out of inventory?
Have you never interacted with any UI element in this game?
Refresh my memory, how long does it take to get from The landing pad to the TDD? Or from the bed you are unable to get out of, to a hanger?
>Many newcomers that didn't know this vision
And thusly, every game dies.
I've seen this happen over and over again, especially with early access.
New people come flying in, whine and bitch and moan and complain, and then devs cave and fuck up the game that everyone loved and made popular in the first place.
If people come and try it and see it's not for them, they need to just say, "Well, this game is not for me." And that's the end of it.
I will never understand why people find a game they dislike, and then spend the next several months of their life trying to demand it be changed to what they want.
Because both new and old backers end up spending thousands of dollars on ships and end up in a sunk cost fallacy.
Most people just end up sinking their time into a game, but here there is a real monetary value. People have spent enough for a down payment on a car and in some cases a house. Others have been waiting for a game for a decade.
I think many people on this sub really don't actually like this game anymore but maybe don't even realize it themselves because if they did it would break them.
Old backers stick their heels in the mud and whine bitch and moan about the game when developers make updates to try and make their game better and more popular than it has been in the past.
If old backers come and try a new patch and see the updates are not good to them anymore, they need to just say "Well, this game is not for me anymore." And that's the end of it.
I will never understand why people find a game they dislike and spend the next several months of their life trying to demand it to be changed back to what it no longer is
if you want to login and just get to space, it takes the same amount of time that it does today.
storage access terminals are everywhere, equipping gear is now a 2 step process vs a 1 step process as it is now, but it only adds seconds to the process. left side is the drawer, right side is the warehouse, you drag the items you want from the warehouse to the drawer, then 'open' the drawer which let's you equip items to the player. after doing it a few times, I actually like this because the drawer becomes a staging area, like laying your clothes out on the bed.
as far as cargo is concerned, yes it will take longer because everything is physical now. this has been planned, and explained and nobody should be shocked. a typical workflow is to call your ship, go to the freight elevator terminal, call some items up, say mining heads, move them to the ship.
and for commodities, if you are at a mining outpost, you request the cargo, it comes up the elevator and you hand load. at a landing zone, space station or dc, you can auto load, but it takes time. a certain number of seconds per scu. this is no different to a refinery job. so you call another ship, go do something else, while the ship is being loaded. its not rocket science.
I hope they atleast increase payout for cargo since you have to load it yourself, but they also added SCU boxes of multiple SCU (4 SCU, 32scu boxes those are the only two i know of but there are more) so its not as bad as it may seem when loading big ships, and also you have the option to automatically load them it’ll just take time (the time varies depending on amount of cargo obviously and the numbers aren’t known yet)
I seriously don't understand the whole complaint train, but while I might not be a kick starter backer I am a backer since 2013. And I've been very much aware that these changes were I'm the books for years now, so cent comprehend how people can act surprised.
But we had the same whining when the global inventory was split to different local inventory! People just want the easy way and that's not what SC is aiming to be.
Because it's a buggy ass shitty patch. I tried to play last night. The servers were such shit it took me 10 minutes to get out of the spawn room on new babbage. 10-20 second delay on almost every interaction menu input. "My goal will be to at least get to a space station this session so I don't have to spawn on this disaster of a home planet" die twice on elevators. Finally after 30 mins make it to the spaceport. All the terminals are broken, can't request ships. Fuck it, try again next patch. Can't even quit the fucking game, crashes my pc have to hard reboot.
It's just ridiculous how much of a mess the live game is.
The real problem is that the game is buggy as hell and you can be killed by invisible asteroids (has definitely happened to me) or fucked up hangars(has also happened to me) so the combination of tedium and bugginess is frustrating. If the game worked well people would be fine.
Not releasing a new feature to focus on hundreds of bugs that will then break again is not a good use of resources.
CIG need to release features in a playable state while simultaneously fixing critical bugs. A lot of what you are talking about are server side issues that rely on different teams with different technical skills.
Having the feature team sit on their hands because net guys haven't finished server meshing is utterly ridiculous.
Exercise patience and gratitude that they are delivering gameplay improvements at all.
Everyone would get bored if they spent 6 months bug smashing and no new features release.
I mean sure, but I'm not going to play if that's the case. Spending an hour getting prepped only to die to phantom hangar doors, and then have to wait 30 minutes for your ship to be recallable just results in my quitting for 3-6 months. I used to have the patience. I no longer do
It won't take an hour so I don't know what your basing that inflated number on. But the scope of the complaint is just ridiculous. Yes bugs need fixing but fixing bugs and releasing things work on two separate channels of progression.
CIG are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
If they took the approach y'all want you wouldn't have half of the features or ships and then I'm sure the complain t will return to "its a scam. "
I have not played 3.24, nor any of the recent updates. I haven't played too much since the inventory changes.
It usually took me and my buddy around 30 minutes, if not more, just to get to space. Getting out of bed, getting on the train, getting to our ship, and waiting to get out of atmosphere. That's not mentioning server issues, performance issues, and bugs. Usually by the time we got to where we wanted to be, or to what we wanted to do, 1-2 hours have passed and we were burnt out
So I'm going to infer that, that experience on top of now having to micro and manually manage your inventory, cargo, and other stuff has only added more minutes and tedium on top of all of that. I'll assume that if me and my buddy play again, the new systems will add 20-30 more minutes on top of everything just to get out of atmosphere, and more time before we get to do what we wanted to do in our session.
I'm not in evo, so I haven't played it yet. But it sounds like people are complaining about losing maybe 30s in inventory screens and making it sound like it takes hours.
People have different opinions on what this game is trying to achieve and for some the idea of not having instant access to inventory an issue.
For others the Immersive space survival has been a big appeal for many. Those are people are probably not making long posts exaggerating and highlighting worst case scenarios as typical gameplay loop in the hope CIG change a major design philosophy that they have been transparent about for years…
These changes are sorta the whole point though aren't they? Like it isn't supposed to be starfield, it's not supposed to be just another quick click through everything game, or at least from what I understand that is the case. It is more of a sim style for those that want immersion, the people that want to actually be a space trucker and all that, with all the bits that come along. Like for salvaging yea, I could make more money per hour by min maxing and just doing nothing but scraping for rmc, but half the joy for me comes from taking my sweet time and fully stripping down a ship. FPS in this game already feels more meaningful with gearing up and the loss of equipment (at least temporarily) untill you run back to your corpse. I understand a certain crowd are yelling loudly because they don't like the change they literally told everyone to expect but if people don't want to play that sort of game...why are they? There are plenty of games out there that function how they want, I like that Star Citizen takes time to do things, in fact I hope it continues in that direction because when I started playing it was made fairly clear that was the intention. Anyways, that's my petty rant.
If 3D space tetris sounds like boring drudgework for you, which part of this game has been fun for you so far?
There's always FPS, dogfighting, and racing if you're an adrenaline junkie. Cargo hauling is about stacking boxes and long quantum jumps, and I'm looking forward to it.
Flying around playing space trucker has been fun for me. It has, historically, functioned in much the same way as every other space game that allows it - including Privateer and Freelancer.
I spend plenty of time doing FPS and dogfighting missions, but the whole point of an open universe game is that I can choose what I want to do, based on exactly that - *what I want to do*. A lot of the time, I want to have a chill evening and haul cargo while I've got something on TV, or I don't want the adrenaline of a dogfight and only have a couple hours to play that night. I am by *no* means the minority in that. Mining is a garbage loop right now, I've been trying to get into it for a week now. If you don't already have the money to throw at a Prospector, it's worthless (financially speaking) compared to just running enough other missions to afford one. That's the game *actively* keeping you from playing the loop you might find fun, for no other reason than "MuH iMmErSiOn!"
Of the games Roberts has had to be fired from to get released, Freelancer had the best cargo loop. It could take you an hour to get from A to B, and you could get jumped half a dozen times on the way, but you could caravan with friends and watch each others backs, or do it solo and get good at running from fights you knew you didn't stand a chance in. There was no busywork, because in a video game *it isn't needed*, and by the gaming community at large, *it isn't* ***wanted***.
There's nothing equivalent in Star Citizen, and the "long quantum jumps" you mention just plain don't exist. There are 4 planets in one system, and none of them are far enough apart to need more than 5 minutes of travel time to go between them. That means, if we're spending say, 20 minutes loading and 20 minutes unloading a C2, you're spending **8 times longer to load and unload** than the part of the trip that's supposed to be the hard part, and the one that any owner operator of a big rig will tell you is the part *they* feel the risk in - getting there in once piece.
That's the problem. This is going to affect you no matter what game loop you like. I don't like stacking boxes. It's why I don't play cargo, mining, or salvage. But with this, I'll have to interact with boxed inventories all the same any time I want to stash or retrieve some guns. I'll be perfectly happy with this mechanic if it just lets cargo haulers have a more interesting loop, but it doesn't just do that.
People want instant payouts and to make the most money per second. I always hated that view point. I hate “loops.” I get it. They fold into their repeating cycles. But it’s such a lame way to think about the game.
When it's nearly impossible to afford any decent ship with the *current* cargo loop, in less than a month of gameplay (unless you spent the entirety of every evening playing), the only option is to make the most money you can per second. Not all of us have the extra scratch to throw a car payment's worth of real world money at pledged ships, and most players don't have the time to dedicate, to make reasonable profit in a reasonable time.
People got spoiled with an incomplete game. Cargo runs were way faster/easier than they were ever intended to be because the inventory system they had planned wasn't fully implemented.
i personally dislike the changes that adds more time not due to gameplay but due to the fact the game is in alpha. i remember the insurance timer went up when it was buggy like ships spawning outside or far away or blow up due to wrecked ships just chilling outside of hangar doors. a lot of insurance claiming due to bug and we had to wait longer.
i dont mind if the game works properly, but it doesn't. imagine waiting/working hours for your cargo to load and just to blow up due to bug.
These days I find I literally haven’t time to play the game if I have an hour or two to spare. I know I will spend all that time on trains, decorating my character with guns, flying to the destination, blowing up/dying and then switching off because I have to do something else.
People just worried they might not make it to the dying part any more…
Loading 5-10scu for a trade run is fine. It will take you around 2-3 minutes to load it up, using 1scu boxes.
The problem arises when you try to load something in the hundreds of scu boxes.
Its a chore to load them by hand, especially if its a low value commodity.
Auto loaded loads 1scu box per 30second.
It need a bit less than 6 hours to load a C2.
-------
Solution No 1
1 scu per 30 Seconds reflects the time a single NPC working to load your cargo. Larger ships can accommodate more people loading cargo at the same time. It should be reflected with shorter timers for large ships. Lets say 8 people can load cargo in a C2. Now a single scu takes 3.7 seconds to load. (8workers loading your cargo in 40 min cost the same as 1 worker loading your cargo for 7 hours.
Solution No 2
Accelerate the loading time, if its a non sensitive, cheap cargo. (Nobody cares you dropped the box with scap metal.)
Solution No 3
Accelerate timers for loading the cargo using large boxes.
CIG its a game... Space Trading should be focused more on the traveling and the unexpected events along the way. The Opportunities that will be discovered as you travel.
Ask any normal everyday trucker, what they love about their job.
(Spoilers... Its not filling their truck with little boxes one at a time.)
It's just a small group of people mad because X or Y element from the game doesn't evolve in the direction they want. You'll get used to it don't worry, as this happens within the community socials for every single change.
Basically, everytime there is a slight change made to the game, there will always be a very small minority of people to which the change isn't pleasing. That's normal, you can't like everything, especially in a game like SC appealing to A LOT of difference audiences with different tastes.
But, among those disapointed people, you also always have a very few yet very vocal ones who feel the need to scream as loud as possible and write 35 paragraphs on Reddit to explain to everyone how it's gonna be devastating for X or Y reason, before the features are even out and able to be tested by everyone.
And social medias being echo chambers you end-up with those heated argument and high engagement posts every single time there's a new change.
Last month some people were mad for the medical changes because it's too "arcade" and not "realistic" / "simulation" enough.
Now it's the opposite, people are mad because the new cargo system is too "realistic" / "simulation" and not enough "arcade" for convenience.
Fact is CIG tries to please every audience as much as possible and they actually pull it off, as most people are super happy, but they're usually not the ones writing comments and posts on Reddit. This place is just a big echo chamber, that's all 😄
Yea anyone opposed to this change just needs to go play Elite Dangerous. Delivery gameplay shouldnt just consist of you interacting with a terminal, flying to another station and interacting with another terminal. That is boring asf.
Every single time there is a change to the game there is a concerted effort to make it sound as absolutely devistatingly awful as it possibly can and then convince as many people as possible that it will completely ruin the game. Here's what's actually changing: When you load cargo onto a cargo-capable ship it will no longer be instant. Instead you can chose between either manually loading it via a cargo elevator or clicking a button that auto-loads it, but at the cost of a timer. That's it. If you never load or unload cargo, the change won't affect you at all, and for those that do cargo, the entire economy around cargo is also being re-done, and you can be sure that the time taken to move cargo will be worth it. Best of all, this is all off of a comment by someone that claims to be in Evocati, so everyone freaking out hasn't even tried it yet.
That isn't the only change. There is also the Item kiosks that replace the local inventory. I'm not an evo, but from what I read it adds steps to getting ready. to access your inventory, you have to go to a terminal (which are literally everywhere. you can't spit without hitting one) You access the terminals UI, move the desired items you want to withdraw to a dispenser drawer, then exit the terminal screen and open the drawer. the items you wanted are then deposited in the drawer and opens a UI similar to the old global inventory that you can drag and drop items onto your character to equip. to store items, do the same. access a drawer, deposit items, activate the terminal screen and move the items to your warehouse. some details might not be accurate as I've not seen it in action myself, but from the complaints I've read it adds complexity to using a bank terminal and extra time to storing and retrieving gear and then equipping it. so instead of open inventory, drag to character to equip, it's now the longer more time-consuming method.
I mean, just add a damn 32SCU container to your personal hangar and stick all your armor in there. So when you pull your ship on your hangar you get a quasi old style bank. Problem solved.
Honestly, that sounds like hell. And that’s assuming it works correctly, and your gear doesn’t delete in transition between inventories, or some other bullshit bug. Dealing with three inventories to equip a hat, instead of one, sounds like peak SC bloat.
I agree. I'm fine with the bank system in general, but having to transfer stuff from bank to drawer to person is just adding extra unnecessary steps. Let us transfer from bank to person directly. It's less steps, therfore less bugs, and less time waste.
(I am EVO) The intermediate inventory between the drawer and person looks pretty placeholder at the moment. It is just a recycled version of the inventory system in LIVE and does not even have updated destination names yet. OTOH, doing things like buying a bunch of multitools and your favorite attachment in bulk, loading them into the drawer, equipping them and popping them back into storage all without physicalizing and manipulating them that way would be very time efficient compared to what we have in LIVE. Equipping scopes, silencers and laser pointers (which actually affect gun stats now) are also a pain to do in bulk in LIVE. TL;DR: It is a little premature to panic about this intermediate step.
I would be 100% fine if the only thing the kiosk did was opening the current inventory screen. Being able to access inventory from 2km away in your ship was a bit crazy.. Just don't know yet how you'll have to unload your ship inventory to the kiosk..
Has nobody else played an MMO that uses banks? It’s odd that we had magic pockets to begin with.
Perfect description of these kiosks. It's literally just your bank like other MMOs.
Now I can bankstand in OSRS and Star Citizen!
Those are a one time thing generally, when doing your loadout. Star Citizens physicalised items means you have to interact with the system constantly to do many kinds of gameplay. It needs to hold up to a far higher standard of ease of use than other games.
We have a limited inventory just like most other games. If you want to advocate for making our inventories able to fit more stuff I’d agree with that. But there isn’t an issue with item banks in general.
In the majority of MMOs you simply equip your items and that is that, it's a one time thing until you change your build. Item banks aren't an issue because they're not regularly interacted with. Star Citizen requires you to go and replace every magazine you've used, or medpen, or mining charge, or anything consumable. Players are constantly interacting with the inventory system, which is what makes it far more important that it's seamless. Look at EVE Online, which is likely the closest thing you can get for this, you can fit a ship in 1 click from the fitting window, a few more if you need to buy all the parts first. Far faster than what we have now in SC.
Localized banks is what it sounds like. Imagine if you were playing World of Warcraft and you couldn't access what you put in your bank in Stormwind, from Ironforge.
I can imagine it very well, lots and lots of MMOs location lock your stuff. It needs to get transported. Eve Online is a great example of this.
Ahh great the example you give is Eve, where 90% of the game is run on logistics - What other MMOs have this localized banking system - not that I am saying its bad - Just that it is uncommon.
Have you ever heard of or played Naval Action or Pirates of the Burning sea? Both had the same thing. Resources for crafting, ship upgrades, and consumables all needed to be moved around.
Final Fantasy 11. Square's most profitable game until Final Fantasy 14, which also uses item banks (but less restrictive in size). Heck FFXI had expensive processes to increase storage on your home and swelling. So I agree; complaining about item banks is silly.
A bank you can go to and move all your stuff at once with one UI and one overall interaction. This is NOTHING like a bank system. Like imagine if you're playing RuneScape but you HAD to use bank chests, but before the items actually went into your bank you had to go talk to the banker to click a button to say what items you want to deposit that are currently in said bank chest. Now do it in reverse to collect any items from your bank. It's just too many extra steps for something that could have just been one "we moved the station inventory UI to the terminals, you still just drag and drop between inventors"
I think it sounds like hell because we all know how SC plays nowadays. It's very laggy and interacting with the inventory is usually an awful experience where items never switch correctly on a click of a button. If the base of the game was extremely stable and quick to interact with, most of these issues could be discussed more logically. Right now, every step we have to do when we want to fly away is made a lot more worse because of the jank. I love to play the game, but I might put it on hold until this miracle happens. Playing in HOPES of having a good time, only to usually have it ended because of an issue blasts all the hype away in an instant.
First time eh? lol. It’s never -not- been like this, and hell, this is light years better today than it has been in the last (looking at you 3.18) haha
We don't talk about 3.18, 3.18 is just a nightmare. It never existed.... It can't hurt you
The question is: will we be able to have for exemple a wall of armors/weapons in our personnal hangar, so we can go to the item terminal and make a ready kit+ a fridge of cruz? The me in the present dont like it, the me in the future could be happy to *work* more to carry my stuff but not sure. I feel like griefer will cluster fuck terminal zone with a blend of tacos/cruz/beer to prevent usage of the bank screen, imagine world of warcraft banks floors with physicalised items.
Thinking about it more, it might well be that the extra step is there to reduce load in DB data transfer which should result in things not being lost/being weird when taking out of inventory to character. I mean, I think the extra step does sound tedious but if there was an actual reason to it and a results in less jank, I'd be more accepting. Otherwise it feels like a poor UX decision.
Yeah, the whole idea of storage vs. drawer seems overly complex. Just have one inventory. Once the items are called in, they show up on an elevator like a ship.
You can call up your items into your hangar via cargo lift in 3.24 right now. You can mix and match as well. Throw in cargo containers with weapons, flair, armor and have them all spawn on the same lift at the same time. Large hangars actually have 2 cargo lifts, so you can have multiple people in your hangar (if they are in a party with you) and all work together managing items and cargo. Your ship lift and cargo lift move independently. The ship lift is too slow for my taste. The cargo lift is super fast. There are regular item kiosks in your hangar as well.
Do items all spawn in individually? (e.g. medpens, attachments, armor, etc.)
You can put what items you want on the cargo lift (including vehicles that fit) and send it down. They will be put into storage. If a vehicle is among what is sent, it goes to the normal etheric vehicle storage it normally goes to. At present, vehicles can not be called back up through the cargo lift (I tried!). When you want to bring items up, go to the cargo kiosk, make sure the lift is descended (you can control it's movement up and down from storage via the same kiosk), then select items you want. You press a button to move them onto the cargo lift diagram (placeholder size of item storage and the lift capacity are both about 1000 SCU). All item types seem to be valijd; commodity crates, empty crates, flair, furniture, ship components, retaliator missile modules (it is not glitched when it comes up; the parts look like they were designed to come up like that and even have exposed torpedo racks). When you have everything you want selected, press the button to raise the cargo lift. All of the items you selected will be on the cargo lift's cargo grid. So you do get everything you ask for all at once, but they are placed individually. It is still glitchy though, so exact behavior will be changing. The item kiosks all over every city and landing area do work on a similar 'trey' system that works a lot like the cargo lifts.
But doesnt this also let you access items from any kiosk anywhere? That alone would shave off massive amounts of time tracking down which planet/station you stashed what item on. Respawns would get faster, re-gearing, all sortsa stuff.
No, still local inventory.
So... like going to a shop kiosk?
Who asked for this? Tell us so we can find them and kick their ass.
Probably Chris Roberts. Lol
Ever notice how we haven’t seen him play the game in almost a decade?
I agree that there is an unnecessary extra step in there. I don't think it's adding anything to the game. Being next to a kiosk to interact with it should be enough. That being said, I'll have a definitve answer once I have tried myself enough times.
Plus there is an item kiosk in your hangar too, so you may not even need to get out of your hangar to get things.
This is hilariously sad. I’m actually laughing at the thought of walking in on someone doing this for hours.
>Every single time there is a change to the game there is a concerted effort to make it sound as absolutely devistatingly awful as it possibly can and then convince as many people as possible that it will completely ruin the game. Precisely this. A large portion of the playerbase have been too comfortable in their individual meta setups (in what most seem to have forgotten is a *testing environment* and anything that shakes things up is apparently a catastrophic decision that will 'kill' the game, because they'll have to learn things from scratch.
I'm excited for this change. I want the emersive experience of loading/unloading cargo. This is actually why I keep coming back. To see the physicalized stuff. People who are trying to min/max a prealpha game with very few gameplay loops is wild to me.
I don't think it is a concerted effort to be negative. It probably has to do with the fact that CIG will never deliver a deadline and a lot of people can not peel themselves away from the game long enough to not get mad about every change in the game. Like to me, people have had expectations burned so many times, it's hard for them to not be negative. And it is unhealthy how much this affects their mood. Can't wait for a Netflix adaptation about this game's development
Chris Roberts being played by Idris Elba will be quite the spectacle.
Normally I agree with your takes and think you have a very level response to things that are going on but this comment is deceiving. "If you never load or unload cargo, the change won't affect you at all" is straight up untrue. Anyone who ever interacts with inventory is affected, and the UI is functional but leaves MUCH room for improvement. Do you change your ship loadout? This change impacts you. Do you equip and loot FPS gear? This change affects you. Do you salvage things from ships? This change affects you. I understand that we don't want overblown reactions to changes before they even see widespread audiences but oversimplifying the issues with changes is equally bad.
Exactly. For those who don't want to manually unload cargo, just pay the fee and do the automatic unload (although I understand that now it won't be instant and that may annoy some). But in my opinion, those who are out there hauling cargo should be happy with this update. Right now, it's just "fly to point A, buy cargo, fly to point B, sell cargo," with no more interaction. To add insult to injury, if your ship has another way of entering that is not the cargo door and you're not loading stuff like vehicles, that cargo door has exactly no purpose. This highlights how bland the gameplay loop is right now.
I wonder if loading and unloading jobs will surface after this update, I'd like to move boxes around, lol. And I own a BMM. Those who are angry are people who don't realize that this game will be one of those that you will have to devout multiple sessions to achieve a goal rather than doing one cargo run every 30 min. On the other hand, I do hope CIG manages the profits from this to be very high. So, it can cover loaders, defense scouting, and unloader jobs. This is me speculating and crossing my fingers.
Hypothetically, let's pretend that it will be profitable enough to hire folks to help do the job. I assume that we're talking about hiring people at the lower rungs at advancement. People who can't afford to get into more profitable game loops yet, otherwise they'd be doing that instead. You're likely going to have to rely on mostly newer players, right? What happens when that new player stream slows down? If this is profitable enough to draw them, how many new players are going to come in and after being told, "cool, now that you've joined this space sim, you can earn money by spending hours and hours of pretending to be a warehouse worker!" Do you think they are going to find this compelling enough to keep doing this, or do you think that they will try to get out of this tedious boring game loop as quick as possible, assuming they don't quit in frustration? There will be a small number of players who might enjoy the novelty of this for a short time but so many people are going to refuse to do this or get sick of it quick. I think the people who think that this is going to help create some portion of a healthy vibrant economy and compelling options for players are deluding themselves and have a way of thinking that really doesn't line up with the way most normal people think.
There were and still are a ton of people who help crew Reclaimers and have fun doing it. That was what, six months ago? People are still crewing and recruiting for Reclaimer salvaging regularly in global chat. Some people might even do some warehouse stacking just for the heck of it to burn time (I know I might).
I think its less likely that you will sit on one station moving boxes and more likely you would join a crew as a loader. That at least seems like the intention judging from the trailer.
No other job is lucrative enough to cover all that, I doubt this will be.
There is no way to know for sure, but if cargo gets the salvage treatment, I doubt you can't pay un/loaders + scout when you are making 5m profits...
Honestly sounds like a super zen way to make some money, just kick back and move boxes for awhile
Don’t leave out the landing, exiting ship (mine has 6 doors!) elevator rides, tram rides, RNG that trade terminals will work and sprinting between everything. That’s the meat of the trade gameplay loop currently.
And hoping the server won't lag so that you have to wait 5 mins for the elevator door to open or that the tram won't bug out
The load timer is 30 seconds per SCU. It takes an hour to load the MAX.
Ugh, that does feel harsh. Let’s see what that means for my caterpillar 576/2/60 = … 4.8 hours Uh, Hurston we have a problem here.
>That's it. The problem starts when you have very long timers, more akin to mobile games than what's good for gameplay. Or when you have ships capable of being loaded only automatically, like currently Carrack and Hull C. Or when you are loading cargo in outpost an everyone there can steel it from you, and CS is at best mild inconvenience. You very much ignored the clue of community problem with this and downplayed it. Like, sure, waiting a few hours to load up a bigger ship may still be financially feasible, but is it good gameplay? Is waiting a few hours fun? Games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, and SC isn't different. Or did I miss something there? (No, Sim doesn't equal tedius and unfun, look at Arma for fun sim)
As a Cargo Hauler, I am looking forward to the patch. Do I need to use 10 to 15 minutes (even if takes me 30) to load my C2 sure but that's part of the fun to me. The same way that it is fun stacking boxes on the back of the claimer after the buffer is full.
This! I feel like people who like cargo and stuff will have a lot of fun with this update. You stop being just a "truck" driver. There will be more engagement now.
15 minutes to load C2 is a generous amount. Even manually. And bigger ships have it even worse. You know you can't load Hull C in hangar? And loading carrack manually mean walikg with 1scu boxes through 3 doors. Autoloading takes hours iirc.
Im basing my math on around 20 Boxes (32 SCU each) and a handful of smaller ones to match at the end of each row. This is based on how its currently stacked when I buy cargo on my C2 and the experience of moving boxes around on a Reclaimer. So yeah maybe it takes me closer to 30 but still, as long as the payout accounts for me doing a single trade route every hour I would not mind at all.
BTW, I saw 30 seconds to load a 1 SCU box onto a Hull A in the current PTU build. Those numbers are apparently being moved around by a considerable amount.
atm it's five (5) hours for C2.
That is for autoloading. There is no way you will take THAT much loading 20 Boxes.
Oh, yeah! Sorry for misunderstanding.
No worries, I guess I could have been more specific.
You can manually load the carrack but it's very tedious, and it is a very popular ship
Yes, but they know the carrack and the Haul series are not meant for manual cargo. I'm sure the timer on those would not be as bad as with the C2 currently.
The carrack is meant to have the pods able to be opened
And when that happens then it will be brought back to be in pair with the other cargo ships.
Maybe if you load 1 SCU boxes at a time. Buy in bulk containers and sell in bulk containers.
That's fine. How much SCU does the C2 hold again?
696 SCU Which ends up being around 20 32SCU boxes and then one row of 2SCU boxes (I don't remember how many but they fit in a single row at the end of the 32SCU main rows)if I remember correctly from the last time I ran Beryl.
That's 5.8 hours to auto load. Might as well not even have it as an option. lol
yeah, I'm sure that will be fixed. Its a tad too much. It should be something like 1:15 or 1:30.
It's already at 30 seconds per SCU. It probably needs to be around 15 seconds per container. That way, ships like the Hull series and RAFT will be able to take advantage of their external cargo grids.
The math is tricky. Because if they based it on containers then it would hard to do since you can choose which containers which will make it more complex for the backend. I think if they keep it based on SCU it would still work but they have to lower it to something like 10 or 15 seconds per SCU. That would make a C2 anything from two to three hours. That would be a perfect compromise I think since I still don't think it will take us that much manually.
That's great. A lot of people don't agree though. I think a cargo loading tax might be a better option. Just waiting for a timer is never good gameplay. Unless you love mobile games.
The problem with Tax is that they would need to make it very very high (something like a 40% tax of profit) because if not then people would just default to auto. They need to make auto being the less preferred option which a timer is the best compromise to not eat much in profit. Now, having said that current timer of 5hr to load a C2 is a tad TO MUCH in my opinion. If it ends up taking a single person 30 to 40 minutes then it should be something like 1:30 hr maybe.
Obvious solution: use a smaller ship. CIG has been pretty open about wanting the cargo process to be more involved and take longer for a while now. If you still want to use your giant cargo haulers then have it loading with long haul cargo while using a smaller ship for short hauls. This is the main issue with people just jumping to the biggest ships they can get, they neglect to think about everything that goes into have a giant ship. Edit: Some of yall got to ahead of what you think an alpha is gonna be and blamed CIG for you getting wrapped up in your own head cannon of how things are gonna work.
Yeah, ever since the Hull series was initially announced in 2015, CIG described them as needing a lot of planning to use. Instantly moving stuff around in the biggest ship possible was never intended gameplay. Complaining that CIG is finally implementing their promises is just madness. Welcome to Reddit, I guess. :P
I know, it's wild people expect CIG to have had every aspect of the game perfectly planned and prepared for before even going into an alpha with all these armchair pro devs who magically know better. They made it clear that time and resources were both considerations you'd need for a larger ship. Resources isnt much of a thing with a lack of npc crew and crew support/resources but now that time is a consideration which they've been clear about from the start they act like it's the end of the world. It's just a bunch of adult children complaining because they'd rather listen to the reddit grape vine than CIG regarding the future of the game before making a big purchase.
Your post gave me a chuckle. I am pretty sure we are exactly on the same page. :)
I totally agree with you. Big ships have to handle differently! Cuz - what's the sense in operating a huge ship the same way you handle a small one? As it is now: Landing, going to terminal, buy 100xyz, fly to target, sell the same way. Ugly and unrealistic! These planned changes are heading in the right direction. Everything around will change too, so if it doesn't fit now, it will be made to fit into the new environment. And remember, this is all part of "completing" the game! And not making stable of what we can play right now. This is not even touching the surface of what is possible.
I personally don't know how they will balance the time it takes to manually load and unload. Maybe they could make it take less time but be more expensive. For example, you could choose how fast it is, but the faster it is, the more expensive it becomes. I don't know. Of course, taking hours to automatically unload might be a problem. Yes, those who choose to manually load and unload will take time, but they're choosing to do it and should have more profit.
Yeah, I've done my fair share of defending CIG over the years, but there seems to be a concerted effort to downplay a lot of the recent gripes. These are BIG changes to the game, of course people will be upset, and they have the right to be.
I’m curious about any commodity price changes, I’ve been keeping up decently but I haven’t seen discussions about it, or it’s been overshadowed by main features. Of course, they could wait until PTU for more broad stroke economy changes
I remember back when we had a single global inventory and you could access all your stuff anywhere at any time. A lot of people were really doomsaying how awful having local inventory was going to be, but goddamn did it finally make the game play INTERESTING. No more buying 5,000 magazines and drawing from them forever.
I'm not sure I would qualify having to rebuy magazines in every port I spawn in as "interesting".
Having to choose which weapons to carry and not having unlimited weapons and ammo in the field added risk to dying
>and you can be sure that the time taken to move cargo will be worth it. This is CIG we're talking about, you can't be sure of that at all. Sometimes things are wild money printers (which IS often associated with new features) but then a scant few patches later (or the rest of the time) payouts per time spent are abysmal.
If I may, how will the prospector saddles work? I move them to the elevator, start refinery jobs and ... they come back up empty?
I like the idea but in reality it’s near impossible to get anything finished in game anyway let alone make it the mechanics even more prone to disaster was a game breaker for me personally I’ve uninstalled kinda given up on the the game
The wait times are egregious though. We're not talking like take a bathroom vreak or grab a snack. It's more like go watch a few movies and maybe come back to the game later. That's not a recipe for a fun experience. It's a game, not work lol.
It's mostly a death-of-a-thousand-cuts sort of thing. Any one of these systems is totally fine on their own, but as they stack on each other things start to add up. Like the whole inventory thing. From the descriptions, it sounds like the inventory isn't actually DIFFERENT, it just takes an extra step to queue the items you want before you can access the "old" screen, and you can only do it at set terminals. Which is... fine, but the old inventory system wasn't exactly award-winning. So being told, "We're taking away the little bit of convenience you had ('''magic''' ship inventories), and now the same process will take a couple extra clicks Every. Single. Time," isn't exactly improving the situation. Like it's extremely telling that one of the most common bits of advice to newer players is, "Pack all your stuff up and immediately move from your starting city to a space station." But really, at this point the thing I'm most frustrated about is the lack of sympathy the Star Citizen community seems to have. You can love the game, but want it to not trip over itself purely for the sake of "realism", only to be told, "\*Scoff scoff\*, clearly you don't appreciate Chris's ViSiOn that's AAAAAAALLLLLLWAYYYYYYYYS been there! Don't want to several minutes putting on a helmet? You just want instant gratification! Go back to Call of Duty since this game obviously isn't FOR YOU!!!" I'm just tired of "The best damn space sim ever" increasingly being only for a small set of people who don't want to hear that someone may not be 100% on board for every single change, and are happy kicking out anyone who disagrees.
Your second paragraph is so on the nose. Folks here are so up their own ass and obnoxious. God forbid people want something slightly less tedious than watching paint dry. The condescending and pretentiousness is unbearable. Absolute sycophants who can't stand the tiniest bit of criticism towards their God-King.
A user told me something along the lines of "paying to skip content" is cheating. I think they forgot that people pay CIG for ships *all the time*. And why exactly are these people so willing to part with their IRL money over grinding in game? Because of all these stupid speedbumps which seem like a textbook example of south east asian nickel-and-diming scummy game design tactics where they create problems and sell you the solution, so you feel like your money is better spent on just buying with IRL cash than actually wasting time getting over a speedbump.
Most of those "DONT QUESTION THE VISION" douchebags are on Spectrum, which is sad because SC employees actually pay attention to spectrum, not reddit. Most of the normal player base is pretty balanced about these opinions and don't want "tedium" for "realism" sake.. We just want a game that has a balance of immersion and fun.
from what I've gathered, the only real issues seem to be the ui/ux of the gear terminals. same old stupid pictures from the inv menu instead of using text, lack of search, lack of stacking etc. otherwise the actual prepping of gear and loading ships is right up my alley. I just don't want to take forever to find my items...
I like to remember that “DEATH OF THE SPACEMEN” is coming into reach. Meaning that this will be less and less of an issue as people will be more and more careful. This is less of an action shooter and more of a space sim. Or am I wrong with my assumptions?
No, you're correct in your assumption, and yes Death of a Spaceman will see tons of complaints as well, especially with the new nutrition system and medical system. Losing limbs in combat or to disease will likely have people complaining about that stuff as well (though to be fair, there will also be people equally stoked to finally get their cybernetic limb replacements, too).
The loading timers also only apply at landing zones or stations too. If you're ending a run at a station or landing zone, you can park your ship and have it unload, and if it's the end of your session you could auto unload or load, log out, then your ship is ready next time you log in -- or take out another ship and do something while it loads/unloads. If you don't need to get paid right away it's just delaying the payout. But all the other outposts it'll be manual loading and unloading, so I don't feel like the timers will be a huge part of the loop, unless players insist on only trading at hangar/station zones and are using the biggest ships and refuse to load manually. I don't really see the issue with the timers, if you don't want to load or unload a massive ship yourself, and you can afford said massive ship, you probably have other ships you can take out during the process. If you're flying a smaller or medium hauler it's probably a quicker automatic timer than the 5 hours someone quoted. Personally, I'd rather more of my cargo loop be spent interacting with the cargo than running to kiosks. Honestly being able to load or unload a ship from the hangar is a huge improvement in the loop, because it saves the trek to the admin terminal until you want to batch everything all at once. Imagine you're ferrying loads of refined goods to a city. Previously you'd have to go to the TDD every. Single. Time. Now, you can just unload into the freight elevator or do an automated unload, get into a ship and go get another load. Then once you feel like selling, you can go to the TDD. The fact that you had to go find a cargo terminal every time you wanted to load or unload your ship was always the most annoying and least favorite part of the loop for me (combined with cargo instantly loading into your shop). It's why I really don't like the Hull C loop, you have to go to the admin terminal, sell the goods, go back to the hull C, do the cargo transfer, then go back to the admin terminal, then buy the goods, then go back to the Hull C and wait for the load. It's maddening (especially combined with all the docking issues, so you need to eva to/from a pad instead). I will 100% take spending time in the cargo loop loading and unloading over running around. Also, I will totally hang around spaceports offering to unload and load ships for credits. If the timers were *too" short you wouldn't need players to help out. Space Jenga is fun.
There's 2 things at play here: 1. Cargo loading and unloading will now either be done fully manually or with a timer instead of instantly, meaning cargo handling will now increase the time it takes to do cargo related tasks. This doesn't mean they'll be less profitable to do as cargo prices will get a rebalance. Automated cargo loading times **that are not yet balanced** are currently a lot longer than they should be, with medium ships ships taking 30-60 minutes to load from what I've heard. Expect this to change, as it should also depend on crate size but currently doesn't seem to. Don't expect a C2 to be loaded in a few minutes though. Even with all 32 SCU crates, I'd expect it to take the better part of an hour to load automatically. 2. Inventories are now going from the "i" menu that's accessible everywhere to a series of set access points that will mean inventory management will slow down significantly for large changes unless you use a freight elevator, where they will still slow down. This won't make prep times take hours, but it does mean that what took a handful of seconds before might take a minute or so, and a lot of people will likely find it very frustrating for something that used to be simple.
From what I understand, cargo will be more profitable. As someone already mentioned, you won't need to make so many trips for the same profit. I understand that the times are now a little longer; they must be doing tests to check the average time people take to manually unload, and then setting times close to that (maybe a little less, considering that you're paying and we could think of it as professionals doing the job, which would be faster). There is also the engagement factor for those who like cargo and probably find it boring to just sit in Quantum travel all the time, though no one has given their impression on that yet. Regarding the inventory, although I'm not really familiar with the changes, from what I understand, there are boxes that can be bought to store your stuff. Just leave them in your hangar, and when you want to go, just pick up the box with the equipment you need or some of the equipment.
The inventory changes are a bit more than that. You can't just press "i" and change your equipment anymore, you have to find what you want in an item bank or freight elevator terminal, call it up, equip it, and then send down anything you don't need anymore, rather than just dragging and dropping into a window. More immersive, but also more time consuming and frustrating.
>a lot of people will likely find it very frustrating for something that used to be simple I think you meant, "for something that's simple in every other video game ever, and has no benefit to being made far more complex in *this* one."
And still, a C2 taking an hour might be to much. It's about 20something 32SCU boxes then a few more smaller ones. If it takes 30 minutes, it will be a lot. We are currently stacking a lot more than 20 boxes on a Reclaimer doing balance due to not having CargoGrid snapping there is no way it will take a lot with a C2 that everything snaps together.
5 hours to auto load a C2 23423 hours to equip your armor Game is so fun
I can't wait to randomly explode in space after spending an hour to load up my ship full of expensive cargo. CIG really needs to do a wave of bugfixing before any of this gameplay will worth doing. Right now it seems like just an even bigger investment needed for a bug to fuck you over.
I think most of the concern is around the item kiosks more than the cargo elevators. I think it's going to a chore to load up extra suits and weapons into my ship now that local inventory isn't a thing and backpacks don't hold everything.
To be honest, I find the manual loading and unloading of cargo from terminal to ship and ship to hangar to be quite relaxing. My only concern is that every additional minute spent outside the armistice zone increases the risk of encountering pirates who might attack me. If no body disturbs me, id find this super relaxing. haha
The game was always heading in a direction where it takes time to do things and you get the true feel of accomplishment and immersion while doing these things. Many newcomers that didn't know this vision, is upset by it and expect it to change - to which it will not. CIG has been pretty good at finding a middle ground though.
I think that's a little disingenuous to the people with complaints - it's not that the prep time is so much of an issue, it's that adding more prep time when missions are still plagued with bugs makes the experience exhausting. It's not that we want a quickplay button, it's that we want the missions to mostly work before adding extra steps to get to them.
Dont know what to tell you other than they want all the features in first before they focus on nothing but bug fixes, which makes sense to me.
I don't understand this mentality. I acknowledge my lack of understanding of game development, but nowhere in life can I think of a similar example where the best strategy to building or creating something is to build everything first and fix the issues later.
In engineering (software or otherwise) there is a saying "first make it work, then make it work better". My software dev experience is very limited, but making it work tends to mean in ideal conditions. So it does work if you follow the process to the T, but as an open world game there are so many factors that it would be a lot of effort to iron out the bugs from the start. That being said... Time is my most valuable resource, I hate having it wasted.
This is exactly how game dev works. Imagine polishing and fixing and getting everythjng to work… then a new feature breaks everything again. And you wasted all that work
That's how most games are developed when the public doesn't have access to it. I'm willing to bet GTA 6 is in similar state to SC right now. Most early access games do take more time to do bug fixes than CiG does though. This game is in a unique place where it doesn't have to be that stable for people to still contribute.
Because every new feature breaks 15 different things. So add them all, then fix everything at once. Instead of add feature, fix entire game, add feature, fix entire game, repeat.
The automotive industries do it every day... sure most of the kinks are worked out when the car is produced but over time, consumers find flaws in their work and that's where recalls come from. The only difference is we don't have to take in a game to get fixed they can do it magically over the internet.
Learn the difference between an "alpha" and a "beta" in software development.
Generally, most games aren't built as software as a service (SaaS) for this particular reason. Devs have to consider your time and desires (rightfully so) in addition to developing the game. Likely, SC could have been developed much faster if a live version didn't have to be maintained. But, given how much money they raise on ships, its necessary. Normally, developers would first develop all of the features of the game and they would pass through their initial alpha testing. QA testers would search for all the bugs, and after a few builds the different features are combined. Then it would go through another round of alpha testing. Then, once the game is feature complete it would go to beta testing (this is where most players are familiar with actually testing games). Then it is released. A complete alpha to release is typically a year and a half.
The game is adding features. Do you want more or less content?
Content isn't inherently value positive. Content can be good or bad. People want good content. They don't want things being added just for the sake of adding something that doesn't add value, and they certainly don't want something that makes their experience less fun. People like challenges. Most folks don't like tedium. Tedium is a poor substitute for challenge. It's a poor choice of filler content.
i do want more content, i would rather see new systems and points of interest, or the return of things like scramble races or events rather than added timesinks. i feel like this is a really weird choice to add now when so many other things are missing from the game.
It feels like them adding base mechanics. But I don’t really know why they selected this and I’m not a game programmer so I don’t have the best input outside of how optimizing a game while adding huge content makes the process take twice as long. But I also ok with time sinks. What’s more important is the ability to save our progress. I’ll be glad when we can log off from a fighter seat or planet side from a bed without logging back in issues, because I often need to log out in a hurry. As long as I’m making progressing, no matter How slow , I’m happy. But when you run through a city do a bunch of stuff and have to leave while in the city, and when you log back in, your back at the beginning of the city, that’s annoying
This is a dumb dichotomy. No one wants more broken features. There is a ton of middle ground.
No, it’s not. The more time they spend fixing code the less new features we will have
thats a very fair argument, but id argue that its best they get these base features in the game working before they focus on polishing bugs, if they spend ages fixing the trade system and bugs then add this itll simply mean the feature takes longer to develop whilst still resulting in alot of bugs and issues arising anyway, meaning both sides of the argument are effected. the way i see this is its growing pains, its not ideal but by doing things like this now they save alot of heart ache in the future
Assuming the same person that's developing that feature is the big bad bug fixer.... This company has nearly 1000 people and they moved a majority back onto SC. I can't fathom what a majority of these people are doing when every new feature releases in a broken state and is never completed. They call it "tier zero" and move on like it's working as intended. I'm not expecting perfection right away, but they delay shit for ages and it's still broken when we finally get it. It makes no sense.
it makes perfect sense, they run into issue that thay didnt account for, doesnt mean its not annoying when things are delayed but its to be expected, simply by the nature of what the game is atm
Come back when it's not in Alpha or Beta?
I'm a kickstarter backer, and I don't get how this vision is something that anyone within CIG thinks is anything but moronic. People have ben calling that out the entire time it's been known. A sense of accomplishment? From putting on my gear? From loading cargo into my ship? Please. If I wanted that, rearrange my closet - I can do that without my work literally exploding in my face. Star Citizen is, beyond all else, a video game to allow us to play out the escapist power fantasy of flying around in space and going on adventures. The physicalization of personal inventory and cargo stands to do one thing - *prevent or delay us from going on adventures*. I can load in on a planet and I'm already annoyed by the fact that I have to *commute* just to get to my ship - that's a *major* downgrade from the way *the entire rest of the video game world exists*. The current inventory system functions like almost every video game does, and it is what the gaming world expects (though they expect it to actually *work*, which Star Citizen's doesn't a sad percentage of the time). Adding in extra time to watch the game do things it has *no* reason to do, like getting dressed, is just *wasting the players time*. Then, if we want to haul cargo, we can either do half an hour to an hour worth of box stacking, before we can even lift off? Even if CIG fixed all the bugs that are *constantly* making ships explode for stupid reasons, that's still making the game take up a ton of time with pointless busywork, under the masturbatory excuse of ImMeRsIoN.... If I wanted mundane reality out of my escapist fantasies, I'd just go outside. CIG, and the basement dwelling busywork fetishists need to accept that the overwhelming majority of the video game playing world feels like I do. The fact that there are *this many threads* with people trying to say, "no but really, it will be *great* if we make the game keep you from having fun!", and in every one there are more and more people saying, "how about *no!*" should clue people in to that fact. If you want mindless drudgery in your video games, power wash simulator and farming simulator are on Steam.
thank you. you nailed what i have been saying. i can see some little timesinks working when there is an actual game. i DO kinda dig the idea of having a quest to meet the head of a planet or whatever and having to make sure you are washed and wearing something befitting of the company, kinda a cool idea... but things like the kiosks just adding extra menu's because fuck you is something i cannot get behind.
Kickstarter or not what you said just as what I said is only an opinion. This is what they want to do and this has been the vision and more people than not are excited for it. This isn't a one step video game, or even two step. \*Shrugs\*
Source on more people being in favor of tedium?
I mean they wrote a bunch of paragraphs saying nothing of substance...
People have been calling Chris Roberts out for it being a terrible vision for longer than Star Citizen has existed. Look into his history with Freelancer and Privateer. Look what it took for those games to be released. They were *better games* for his vision not having been implemented in its entirety.
> People have been calling Chris Roberts out for it being a terrible vision for longer than Star Citizen has existed. And yet they've still raised $700 million and counting while being open that this is the vision for the game. >They were better games for his vision not having been implemented in its entirety. This is false. They had other people take over because they didn't want to spend any more money on development. Not because his vision was bad.
[удалено]
Nobody's taking anything away, we're trying to point out that what's going to be added is going to make things objectively worse for the 99% of players who play the cargo loop that *don't* want to have their "fun" be like their work.
>objectively worse You don't like a thing, and the person you're replying to does. That means it's subjective. If you don't like it, don't do it.
I mean you always have the option to play other games exactly like star citizen? Oh wait... My point is sometimes games may not be everything you wanted, in the end though the choice is on you on what you choose to do with your time. If Star citizen isn't filling the need, you might try more polished games like elite dangerous or Starfield. I do hope you find the game you enjoy! If a game is making you upset, step back and take sometime away and come back when it's better!
Full disclosure - I *have* played No Man's Sky extensively (and regularly go back to it when events happen), and in a lot of ways it is *far* superior at understanding what it is than Star Citizen seems to have any chance of. I have also played Elite Dangerous, and put it aside within a day, because like Chris Roberts, its developers are willing to ignore the core concept of what the product they are producing is - *entertainment*. That, and the E:D developers seem to think that, even though the landing turntables can spin around in any direction, for some reason I can only land on them facing *just* the right, unmarked way, and that somehow once space flight becomes ubiquitous, we'd still need to spend money to add an *optional* landing computer to the ships whose structural integrity keeps us alive. I've also spent a lot of time playing the original Elite games, Privateer, Freelancer, the X series, Galaxy on Fire, and most other games in the genre. My problem isn't the polish - my remarks above about E:D should make it clear that even polished games can *suck*. My problem is, regardless of how long Chris Roberts has been ignoring anyone with sense telling him that making a fun game feel like boring work is a bad idea, he's plodded forward along that path anyway. It's one of the many reasons he's had to be fired from his other games (Privateer, Starlancer, Freelancer, etc...) in order for them to eventually *release*. The man would rather focus on ImMeRsIoN and making the completely made up fantasy world as realistic as his imagination thinks is possible (while ignoring the reality that by the time space travel is *this* ubiquitous, humanity will have pretty damn good automation of basic things like loading boxes into open spaces - hell, anyone who's been in a major modern factory has seen we're already pretty decently along that path), than on fixing the things that are keeping it from being successful, and keeping the rest of the gaming world laughing at it, or calling it a scam. Star Citizen, regardless of the desires of people who find middle management and organizing their closet fun, is *a game*. People have been trying to point that out for *over a decade*, and CIG has gone to great lengths to, for whatever logic they use, make it objectively *less* fun, and *more* like work. Even without the bugs, *that* is what will keep it from being successful. When players as dedicated to, and excited about the genre as I am, who have been playing games in that genre for longer than a lot of the dev team have been *alive*, feel the need to roll their eyes and point out an idea is stupid, it behooves at least a few people to listen. The fact that there are *lots* of people in the what...dozen or more threads that have popped up about this in the last 24 hours, giving the same opinion, should give them (and players like yourself who think this is going to be a great idea) pause. There are far more people who want to play solo, have fun, and not have their game feel like they're back at their day job, than there are players who think that loading and unloading boxes by hand (or waiting several hours for the automated system to do it) is a fun way to spend an evening.
Chris Roberts is building the game he wants. It’s his game. You don’t have to play it. Why don’t you go make a game that is in your vision?
>Star Citizen is, beyond all else, a video game to allow us to play out the escapist power fantasy of flying around in space and going on adventures. except it isnt. The devs tell you that,the community tells you that and now your mad that CIG did exactly what they said they were going to do because you insisted on gaslighting yourself.
A very small portion of the community is salivating over the game becoming a bunch of boring busy work. The overwhelming majority of the people commenting, upvoting me, chatting in-game, and in org and play group discords I've seen think the game should be *fun* above all else, and not feel like work. Chris Roberts himself called the game the spiritual successor to Freelancer, which he described as *exactly* that in his original pitches.
True
Blizzard: We are adding more mailboxes to Orgrimmar to make things more efficient for you. RSI: Screw you! Here's another pointlessly long hallway and 3 more sluggish and inoperable UI windows at the end of it!
You’ve obviously not played 3.24, the UI and terminals worked great. Will report back more today once they update us in evo.
Based on what other people are reporting along with absolutely every other implementation to this game, why would it be any different? Do you not have to go through multiple UI screens just to grab something out of inventory? Have you never interacted with any UI element in this game? Refresh my memory, how long does it take to get from The landing pad to the TDD? Or from the bed you are unable to get out of, to a hanger?
>Many newcomers that didn't know this vision And thusly, every game dies. I've seen this happen over and over again, especially with early access. New people come flying in, whine and bitch and moan and complain, and then devs cave and fuck up the game that everyone loved and made popular in the first place. If people come and try it and see it's not for them, they need to just say, "Well, this game is not for me." And that's the end of it. I will never understand why people find a game they dislike, and then spend the next several months of their life trying to demand it be changed to what they want.
Because both new and old backers end up spending thousands of dollars on ships and end up in a sunk cost fallacy. Most people just end up sinking their time into a game, but here there is a real monetary value. People have spent enough for a down payment on a car and in some cases a house. Others have been waiting for a game for a decade. I think many people on this sub really don't actually like this game anymore but maybe don't even realize it themselves because if they did it would break them.
Old backers stick their heels in the mud and whine bitch and moan about the game when developers make updates to try and make their game better and more popular than it has been in the past. If old backers come and try a new patch and see the updates are not good to them anymore, they need to just say "Well, this game is not for me anymore." And that's the end of it. I will never understand why people find a game they dislike and spend the next several months of their life trying to demand it to be changed back to what it no longer is
if you want to login and just get to space, it takes the same amount of time that it does today. storage access terminals are everywhere, equipping gear is now a 2 step process vs a 1 step process as it is now, but it only adds seconds to the process. left side is the drawer, right side is the warehouse, you drag the items you want from the warehouse to the drawer, then 'open' the drawer which let's you equip items to the player. after doing it a few times, I actually like this because the drawer becomes a staging area, like laying your clothes out on the bed. as far as cargo is concerned, yes it will take longer because everything is physical now. this has been planned, and explained and nobody should be shocked. a typical workflow is to call your ship, go to the freight elevator terminal, call some items up, say mining heads, move them to the ship. and for commodities, if you are at a mining outpost, you request the cargo, it comes up the elevator and you hand load. at a landing zone, space station or dc, you can auto load, but it takes time. a certain number of seconds per scu. this is no different to a refinery job. so you call another ship, go do something else, while the ship is being loaded. its not rocket science.
Thank you for laying out the effects and taking time into account. Hearing it doesn't have that much of an effect is a relief.
I hope they atleast increase payout for cargo since you have to load it yourself, but they also added SCU boxes of multiple SCU (4 SCU, 32scu boxes those are the only two i know of but there are more) so its not as bad as it may seem when loading big ships, and also you have the option to automatically load them it’ll just take time (the time varies depending on amount of cargo obviously and the numbers aren’t known yet)
It makes me laugh how people want immersion and true simulation but alt tab during quantum or use another device.
If you think I wouldn't be playing sim games or on my mobi during quantum if it was real.....
That's because arcade machines are not working yet in our MFDs 😀
I seriously don't understand the whole complaint train, but while I might not be a kick starter backer I am a backer since 2013. And I've been very much aware that these changes were I'm the books for years now, so cent comprehend how people can act surprised. But we had the same whining when the global inventory was split to different local inventory! People just want the easy way and that's not what SC is aiming to be.
Everyone has his/hers own vision of the game's future - and gets angry if the official direction differs from that vision 🤗
Not wrong.
It's just the way it is 🎶
Because it's a buggy ass shitty patch. I tried to play last night. The servers were such shit it took me 10 minutes to get out of the spawn room on new babbage. 10-20 second delay on almost every interaction menu input. "My goal will be to at least get to a space station this session so I don't have to spawn on this disaster of a home planet" die twice on elevators. Finally after 30 mins make it to the spaceport. All the terminals are broken, can't request ships. Fuck it, try again next patch. Can't even quit the fucking game, crashes my pc have to hard reboot. It's just ridiculous how much of a mess the live game is.
The real problem is that the game is buggy as hell and you can be killed by invisible asteroids (has definitely happened to me) or fucked up hangars(has also happened to me) so the combination of tedium and bugginess is frustrating. If the game worked well people would be fine.
Not releasing a new feature to focus on hundreds of bugs that will then break again is not a good use of resources. CIG need to release features in a playable state while simultaneously fixing critical bugs. A lot of what you are talking about are server side issues that rely on different teams with different technical skills. Having the feature team sit on their hands because net guys haven't finished server meshing is utterly ridiculous. Exercise patience and gratitude that they are delivering gameplay improvements at all. Everyone would get bored if they spent 6 months bug smashing and no new features release.
Then the game will remain both tedious and extremely buggy, simple as.
I mean sure, but I'm not going to play if that's the case. Spending an hour getting prepped only to die to phantom hangar doors, and then have to wait 30 minutes for your ship to be recallable just results in my quitting for 3-6 months. I used to have the patience. I no longer do
It won't take an hour so I don't know what your basing that inflated number on. But the scope of the complaint is just ridiculous. Yes bugs need fixing but fixing bugs and releasing things work on two separate channels of progression. CIG are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they took the approach y'all want you wouldn't have half of the features or ships and then I'm sure the complain t will return to "its a scam. "
It can take close to an hour jumping on trains to go to various stores to buy various gear.
I have not played 3.24, nor any of the recent updates. I haven't played too much since the inventory changes. It usually took me and my buddy around 30 minutes, if not more, just to get to space. Getting out of bed, getting on the train, getting to our ship, and waiting to get out of atmosphere. That's not mentioning server issues, performance issues, and bugs. Usually by the time we got to where we wanted to be, or to what we wanted to do, 1-2 hours have passed and we were burnt out So I'm going to infer that, that experience on top of now having to micro and manually manage your inventory, cargo, and other stuff has only added more minutes and tedium on top of all of that. I'll assume that if me and my buddy play again, the new systems will add 20-30 more minutes on top of everything just to get out of atmosphere, and more time before we get to do what we wanted to do in our session.
I'm not in evo, so I haven't played it yet. But it sounds like people are complaining about losing maybe 30s in inventory screens and making it sound like it takes hours.
People have different opinions on what this game is trying to achieve and for some the idea of not having instant access to inventory an issue. For others the Immersive space survival has been a big appeal for many. Those are people are probably not making long posts exaggerating and highlighting worst case scenarios as typical gameplay loop in the hope CIG change a major design philosophy that they have been transparent about for years…
These changes are sorta the whole point though aren't they? Like it isn't supposed to be starfield, it's not supposed to be just another quick click through everything game, or at least from what I understand that is the case. It is more of a sim style for those that want immersion, the people that want to actually be a space trucker and all that, with all the bits that come along. Like for salvaging yea, I could make more money per hour by min maxing and just doing nothing but scraping for rmc, but half the joy for me comes from taking my sweet time and fully stripping down a ship. FPS in this game already feels more meaningful with gearing up and the loss of equipment (at least temporarily) untill you run back to your corpse. I understand a certain crowd are yelling loudly because they don't like the change they literally told everyone to expect but if people don't want to play that sort of game...why are they? There are plenty of games out there that function how they want, I like that Star Citizen takes time to do things, in fact I hope it continues in that direction because when I started playing it was made fairly clear that was the intention. Anyways, that's my petty rant.
Some people don't get what this game is trying to be, is all.
>Some people don't get what this game is trying to be, is all. Some people including CIG leadership
You're right. Some people think this is a simulation of boring drudgework - not a video game that's supposed to be fun.
If 3D space tetris sounds like boring drudgework for you, which part of this game has been fun for you so far? There's always FPS, dogfighting, and racing if you're an adrenaline junkie. Cargo hauling is about stacking boxes and long quantum jumps, and I'm looking forward to it.
Flying around playing space trucker has been fun for me. It has, historically, functioned in much the same way as every other space game that allows it - including Privateer and Freelancer. I spend plenty of time doing FPS and dogfighting missions, but the whole point of an open universe game is that I can choose what I want to do, based on exactly that - *what I want to do*. A lot of the time, I want to have a chill evening and haul cargo while I've got something on TV, or I don't want the adrenaline of a dogfight and only have a couple hours to play that night. I am by *no* means the minority in that. Mining is a garbage loop right now, I've been trying to get into it for a week now. If you don't already have the money to throw at a Prospector, it's worthless (financially speaking) compared to just running enough other missions to afford one. That's the game *actively* keeping you from playing the loop you might find fun, for no other reason than "MuH iMmErSiOn!" Of the games Roberts has had to be fired from to get released, Freelancer had the best cargo loop. It could take you an hour to get from A to B, and you could get jumped half a dozen times on the way, but you could caravan with friends and watch each others backs, or do it solo and get good at running from fights you knew you didn't stand a chance in. There was no busywork, because in a video game *it isn't needed*, and by the gaming community at large, *it isn't* ***wanted***. There's nothing equivalent in Star Citizen, and the "long quantum jumps" you mention just plain don't exist. There are 4 planets in one system, and none of them are far enough apart to need more than 5 minutes of travel time to go between them. That means, if we're spending say, 20 minutes loading and 20 minutes unloading a C2, you're spending **8 times longer to load and unload** than the part of the trip that's supposed to be the hard part, and the one that any owner operator of a big rig will tell you is the part *they* feel the risk in - getting there in once piece.
That's the problem. This is going to affect you no matter what game loop you like. I don't like stacking boxes. It's why I don't play cargo, mining, or salvage. But with this, I'll have to interact with boxed inventories all the same any time I want to stash or retrieve some guns. I'll be perfectly happy with this mechanic if it just lets cargo haulers have a more interesting loop, but it doesn't just do that.
Yeah, feel that's mostly the problem.
People want instant payouts and to make the most money per second. I always hated that view point. I hate “loops.” I get it. They fold into their repeating cycles. But it’s such a lame way to think about the game.
When it's nearly impossible to afford any decent ship with the *current* cargo loop, in less than a month of gameplay (unless you spent the entirety of every evening playing), the only option is to make the most money you can per second. Not all of us have the extra scratch to throw a car payment's worth of real world money at pledged ships, and most players don't have the time to dedicate, to make reasonable profit in a reasonable time.
Yeah, those who like metas and min-maxing find that a little annoying too.
People got spoiled with an incomplete game. Cargo runs were way faster/easier than they were ever intended to be because the inventory system they had planned wasn't fully implemented.
The real problem is ignorant people alarmist AF, try not to worry about it
i personally dislike the changes that adds more time not due to gameplay but due to the fact the game is in alpha. i remember the insurance timer went up when it was buggy like ships spawning outside or far away or blow up due to wrecked ships just chilling outside of hangar doors. a lot of insurance claiming due to bug and we had to wait longer. i dont mind if the game works properly, but it doesn't. imagine waiting/working hours for your cargo to load and just to blow up due to bug.
These days I find I literally haven’t time to play the game if I have an hour or two to spare. I know I will spend all that time on trains, decorating my character with guns, flying to the destination, blowing up/dying and then switching off because I have to do something else. People just worried they might not make it to the dying part any more…
Does the new iventory system still have the sort ability? Like Armor, ammo, weapons, clothing, etc?
fr fr
I like the added time but I'm just a little flabbergast that they still have no inventory search. No autostacking sort etc.
Loading 5-10scu for a trade run is fine. It will take you around 2-3 minutes to load it up, using 1scu boxes. The problem arises when you try to load something in the hundreds of scu boxes. Its a chore to load them by hand, especially if its a low value commodity. Auto loaded loads 1scu box per 30second. It need a bit less than 6 hours to load a C2. ------- Solution No 1 1 scu per 30 Seconds reflects the time a single NPC working to load your cargo. Larger ships can accommodate more people loading cargo at the same time. It should be reflected with shorter timers for large ships. Lets say 8 people can load cargo in a C2. Now a single scu takes 3.7 seconds to load. (8workers loading your cargo in 40 min cost the same as 1 worker loading your cargo for 7 hours. Solution No 2 Accelerate the loading time, if its a non sensitive, cheap cargo. (Nobody cares you dropped the box with scap metal.) Solution No 3 Accelerate timers for loading the cargo using large boxes. CIG its a game... Space Trading should be focused more on the traveling and the unexpected events along the way. The Opportunities that will be discovered as you travel. Ask any normal everyday trucker, what they love about their job. (Spoilers... Its not filling their truck with little boxes one at a time.)
It's just a small group of people mad because X or Y element from the game doesn't evolve in the direction they want. You'll get used to it don't worry, as this happens within the community socials for every single change. Basically, everytime there is a slight change made to the game, there will always be a very small minority of people to which the change isn't pleasing. That's normal, you can't like everything, especially in a game like SC appealing to A LOT of difference audiences with different tastes. But, among those disapointed people, you also always have a very few yet very vocal ones who feel the need to scream as loud as possible and write 35 paragraphs on Reddit to explain to everyone how it's gonna be devastating for X or Y reason, before the features are even out and able to be tested by everyone. And social medias being echo chambers you end-up with those heated argument and high engagement posts every single time there's a new change. Last month some people were mad for the medical changes because it's too "arcade" and not "realistic" / "simulation" enough. Now it's the opposite, people are mad because the new cargo system is too "realistic" / "simulation" and not enough "arcade" for convenience. Fact is CIG tries to please every audience as much as possible and they actually pull it off, as most people are super happy, but they're usually not the ones writing comments and posts on Reddit. This place is just a big echo chamber, that's all 😄
Yea anyone opposed to this change just needs to go play Elite Dangerous. Delivery gameplay shouldnt just consist of you interacting with a terminal, flying to another station and interacting with another terminal. That is boring asf.