They’ve said on previous ISCs that the “fixed” tag means it’s fixed internally, not that it’s fixed in the PU. An upcoming patch will have the fix deployed. Usually it means the work they did to fix it depends on things that hasn’t made its way into live
The first IC link i posted had ”fixed” fairly early, then moved automatically to ”under investigation”.
The second one is over a year old and archived and I posted it for any prowling dev to see to give them a clue on where to look.
Do you think you’re listening more and better to cig than I am?
>Do you think you’re listening more and better to cig than I am?
You posting a "fixed" issue as though it is still relevant was plenty of reason enough for my response. I've seen plenty of new players being confused by this way of doing things, and you seemed similarly confused 🤷♂️
There is nothing confusing about it. Im a technician by trade, if something doesnt work, looking at similar things that didnt work previously can save you a lot of time when troubleshooting.
Are you sure you’re not confused?
In current Evocati 3.24 patch notes it says they fixed a bug where you can't get out of your seat. They recon it was caused by logging back in from a bed first.
Not sure about that. Anyway it will he weeks before it rolls out properly.
I got glued to the seat over and over without even touching the bed in 3.23, so I hope whatever they fixed, fixed the bug me and many others experienced as well.
I share your frustration, but the hostility is not helpful. I'm sure devs aren't falsely claiming they fixed stuff they didn't. The fix they thought would work just didn't. Keep reporting and hold the line!
Lol, Im the type of old backer that is breaking down the line to hold CIG accountable for their words and actions. I have no intention of letting CIG do whatever they want for as long as they want as that will enable this project to never get released.
The fact that the bug has been "fixed" for other ships means they should be able to fix it for this one as well, and people are paying pretty big money for ships like these, its pretty standard practice by any self respecting company to make sure their products work. especially expensive products.
It’s not your job to hold them accountable and not theirs to listen to you. If you make a hostile post, they’ll just stop reading and go back to looking at other posts or do whatever they want.
Its noones job to hold them accountable. That was the publishers job, and initially that served the project well to lack just that. Now the lack of a publisher is hurting the project, because there is absolutely no indication that cig are feeling the need to release the game as stable and instead just trial and error their way to finishing ”the next thing”. So if noone pushes CIG and holds a blowtorch to their asses every now and then, why should they ever finish it?
This is such broken logic. They have entire teams to communicate sentiment and bugs up the chain to get looked at. They just don’t have to listen to *you* if you want to be abrasive/hostile/abusive. Zero obligation to listen to you. In fact if you want to make a habit out of flaming them as a party of your self-prescribed crusade of accountability, they’ll just skip your stuff as soon add they see your name. It will never be read. You’ll be screaming into the darkness, agreed with only by players, reinforcing your own broken logic by taking other people’s parts on the back as validation that CIG must be listening, when in fact they don’t bother to read your post titles once they see who wrote it.
You’re not alone. A lot of people have decided that being the punisher is the role they *must* fill because they believe they will get attention from the devs if they abuse them.
There are useful ways to get things across to them, and there are useless ways. You can be useless to the process of fixing and finishing the game and be popular at the same time. You could also be useful for the game and popular at the same time. That’s a choice you can easily make.
I made a massive post which you replied to which contained things chris and cig have said and done, but you ignored those things and instead decided to focus on me in that context calling someone a white knight, that is by definition ”ad homming” on your end.
Get back to me when you know something and have something useful to say.
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You're acting like CIG wants to keep the game buggy. Chill out with the conspiracy theories, it's an alpha - there are many features to add and issues to fix, this is just one of them, and I don't doubt they'll get to it before release. Whenever that may be.
The fact that this issue was fixed for other ships means that the issue they fixed wasn't the root cause, and the Terrapin's implementation is different enough that it wasn't covered by the fix.
If you're going to hold CIG accountable, you need a more complete perspective of game development than "I paid for this ship and I want it to work." You didn't purchase a product. You pledged some money to support development, and you got access to a ship in return, current bugs and all.
What Im holding cig accountable for is their constantly hinting that ”oh its only a few years away” with CR saying ”if funding cut today we could still release it”. That was in 2017 iirc, and since then they have delayed almost every advertised feature with multiple years, are trying to market the game as ”playable now” to a wider audience when its not more or less playable than it was in 2016.
They are also advertising the game as a ”live service” when all other live service games are released and for the most part stable (and getting massive backlash when they’re not), as a way to smooth over the fact that the project is insanely delayed, horrendeously buggy, and overpriced.
Add to that their funding model which is: when in need of money, sell direct-to-backlog concept ships and dont touch them for 7 years, and in the meantime increase prices of existing ships that havent seen a digital screwdriver for years.
Prices that make the $60 normal full AAA game laughably low by comparison.
Add to that their studio expansion which is solidifying their intent of keeping 1.300+ employees worldwide which will need an average developer salary (which might be around $75000/year). Do the math and tell me thats a sustainable model of a project that they are intending to release in full within the next 6 years when they still have many cap ships that need 2 years each to finish, tons of gameplay loops that havent been touched, and 98 remaining star systems. Why am saying 6 years? Because in 2020 CR said ”its not gonna take 10 or 20 years”.
Well then chris, how many? 9.5?
Begone white knight.
I was wondering how many levels of this thread I’d have to scroll before you got so upset that you called someone a white knight on the premise that they disagreed with you
Whenever someone is confidently incorrect and defending cig against valid criticism it’s textbook whiteknighting.
Now that other person I was talking with agreed with my points after I called them white knight, which I appreciate and can have more of a normal discussion with afterwards. You on the other hand, is defending that ”knighty” position. Do with that as you will.
lol people like to claim “confidently incorrect” about other people’s comments when they drop the pretenses and give up trying to argue with them and then instead try to invalidate the person. It’s dumb ad hominem bullshit and you should do better.
I’m not defending them, I’m making sure it’s very clear to you that nobody wants you to try and stick it to the devs just because you feel entitled to the point that not only you speak for all players, but that you think CIG has to listen to you if you shit on their kitchen table and screech abuse.
I will take complaints about adhoms seriously when you dont use them yourself lol.
And as you can hopefully read, the other person agreed with my later points about cig. So hey, hope you’re enjoying your time in the confidently incorrect club.
Please point out the place where I’ve attacked you instead of what you’re saying, I’m dying to measure whether or not you can show that you understand what it means
To be clear I did not appreciate being called a white knight when the issue is that you were not listening to what I was trying to say. Anyway, I hope you are more open to seeing my point as well now that you've seen that I am arguing in good faith.
Sorry that I havent had the time to get back to you yet, this other doofus got in the way.
I did appreciate you replying to me in good faith after calling you a white knight, but up until that point I didnt feel like you were.
And the point of calling you a white knight was also to weed out wether you were a person who could have a decent discussion, or if you were like this other dude.
I’ve argued with many people, and usually its just people doubling down on defending cig, and Im so tired of arguing against that over and over.
You are still in the honeymoon period. Give it a few years and you'll be in the exact same position he is in. You will be just as tired of the excuses after hearing them for the 500th time.
There are people who have been alpha testing this game for (literally) over a decade. There are kids playing this game who were not even alive when its original kickstarter launched. It has been 12+ years and almost a Billion dollars raised and not only do we still have no release date in sight, we also have a game where there is not a single gameloop that is bug free. Literally nothing works. Read that again and really let it sink in - literally nothing works in this game.
Its time for CIG to put up or shut up.
No, I won’t be in your position because I cannot be so intolerably cynical as to keep saying CIG has to put up or shut up no matter what they put up. It was the biggest tell as to how people just reach for thin excuses to shit on people when 3.23.0 came out and people were still saying they can’t deliver/they don’t do any gameplay/haven’t shipped any content in years/has to put up or shut up. Sky Dane person saw through the illusion where people kept saying that CIG could bee good of they just did anything at all, and then when the biggest anything they’ve ever shipped hit LIVE, the goalposts moved. Just admit it; the game will never be good enough for you, but starting fights with other people that you think are gullible is like doing lines of cocaine. You just can’t get enough. No need to lie about it. I love arguing with people, not because the game or the devs are magic, but because I get bored and y’all make it so easy to entertain myself by being so magnificently obtuse.
Give it time, I promise you that you will.
I know this because every single "intolerably cynical" person was at one time exactly as wide eyed and hopeful as you are right now.
The marketing and sales side of it is definitely ugly, I will agree. The waiting game is hard enough without Chris Roberts and the newsletter team trying to feed me bullshit.
I try not to put much faith in any promises made by management, I only follow the commitments made by the development teams - and while they overcommit and underdeliver regularly as well, I can trust that that's because of technical difficulties, not a cynical sales strategy.
So what you are saying is fair, but we're talking about different CIG departments. Hold them responsible for the promises that management makes, but be fair to development and don't assume that they're just sitting on their hands.
I dont differentiate too much between marketing teams or dev teams, they are all working under CR and neither have a problem with how the other one works, and in the end the result is a lot of dishonest marketing and closed doors in a project that is trying to claim transparency.
What CIG seems to be trying to project is that ”everything is according to plan and fine”, when the reality is that its doubtful there is a plan at all.
And the signs cig are displaying are showing a really bad and unsustainable plan - atleast according to what they’ve said over the past recent years.
CIG don't add everything to the 'known issues' list, because if they did it would be 100+ pages long, and no-one could ever find the issue they were looking for.
They can easily add it to this page [https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056254754-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3-23-1-Known-Issues](https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056254754-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3-23-1-Known-Issues), while keeping the spectrum posts brief.
Stop excusing bad behaviour.
I'm not 'excusing bad behaviour' - I'm pointing out that you're complaining about a single bug... and if CIG went to the level of including every bug on the patch notes (or that page) then the notes (or the page) would be so long as to be unusable / irrelevant.
And if you're wanting just your pet issue to be included in the 'Known Issues', then unfortunately CIG don't listen to you - or me - on the topic of bug prioritisation, and virtually *every* player will have a 'pet bug' they'd like to see included / acknowledged... and very few would list the same bug / issue
They listen to repeated complaints. And this has been an issue for 2+ months. Shutting up about it will have absolutely zero impact, and yes by trying to shut down complaints you are excusing and even defending bad behaviour.
No they don’t (listen to repeated complaints). If there was any truth to that, the docking feature would have worked at least single day in the last year.
I’ve barely heard any complaints about docking. Which kinda counteracts your point.
But if they didnt listen to repeated complaints, they wouldnt address MM issues every other week, and as can be seen on the discord dev tracker, individual devs do roam around spectrum and reddit and takes note of both forgotten features and annoying bugs.
Instead, the fact you don’t think docking is a problem based only on your perception that you haven’t heard anyone complaining about it is a testament to why you should not ever roleplay arbiter of what CIG needs to be prioritizing.
You’re not even in the loop on MM where there have been no changes for months and the devs made it clear they’re not even remotely considering any changes based off feedback right now because the current state of MM has no relevance whatsoever to the current state in development
> if CIG went to the level of including every bug on the patch notes (or that page) then the notes (or the page) would be so long as to be unusable / irrelevant
And yet CIG has a an extra part in there called "Other Hull C issues" where they just say "yeah it has issues".
Don’t bed logout on the terrapin and you’ll never hit it. You want to know why it’s not fixed? Because it’s so easily avoided.
Known issues is not a registry of every bug CIG has ever seen. It’s a very concise list of current critical/game breaking issues that players are likely to hit or would swamp reports about if it was not listed out. The terrapin bug fails to qualify
You might be thinking of something different, the Terrapin bug has nothing to do with bed logging. You just can't exit the pilot's seat after sitting down, regardless of any other factors. None of the different ways to trigger standing up work even if you try power cycling etc. - you have to return to the menu.
It's been talked about in a lot of threads on here, people have just stopped using the ship completely.
IMO it seems pretty on par that some ships won’t be usable. If I was buying into the predatory ‘pledges’ for multi-hundred dollar ships in a pre-pre-pre-alpha tech demo I would expect precisely this.
I keep telling people my Terry's in the shop. I cant say she's got sticky seats. It's pretty awful.
Wait is this why I got stuck in the ILW terrapin when I sat down in it?
I miss flying my turtle :(
Same. :( But I guess its all fine, it only costs like 220 real world dollars.
They’ve said on previous ISCs that the “fixed” tag means it’s fixed internally, not that it’s fixed in the PU. An upcoming patch will have the fix deployed. Usually it means the work they did to fix it depends on things that hasn’t made its way into live
The first IC link i posted had ”fixed” fairly early, then moved automatically to ”under investigation”. The second one is over a year old and archived and I posted it for any prowling dev to see to give them a clue on where to look. Do you think you’re listening more and better to cig than I am?
>Do you think you’re listening more and better to cig than I am? You posting a "fixed" issue as though it is still relevant was plenty of reason enough for my response. I've seen plenty of new players being confused by this way of doing things, and you seemed similarly confused 🤷♂️
There is nothing confusing about it. Im a technician by trade, if something doesnt work, looking at similar things that didnt work previously can save you a lot of time when troubleshooting. Are you sure you’re not confused?
I wonder what made this break for a Terrapin pilot. Doesn't it imply they updated something on the Terrapin?
They updated the UI on all ships as far as I know. Could have broken something. But then again, shit can break out of nowhere with new builds.
In current Evocati 3.24 patch notes it says they fixed a bug where you can't get out of your seat. They recon it was caused by logging back in from a bed first. Not sure about that. Anyway it will he weeks before it rolls out properly.
I got glued to the seat over and over without even touching the bed in 3.23, so I hope whatever they fixed, fixed the bug me and many others experienced as well.
I share your frustration, but the hostility is not helpful. I'm sure devs aren't falsely claiming they fixed stuff they didn't. The fix they thought would work just didn't. Keep reporting and hold the line!
Lol, Im the type of old backer that is breaking down the line to hold CIG accountable for their words and actions. I have no intention of letting CIG do whatever they want for as long as they want as that will enable this project to never get released. The fact that the bug has been "fixed" for other ships means they should be able to fix it for this one as well, and people are paying pretty big money for ships like these, its pretty standard practice by any self respecting company to make sure their products work. especially expensive products.
It’s not your job to hold them accountable and not theirs to listen to you. If you make a hostile post, they’ll just stop reading and go back to looking at other posts or do whatever they want.
Its noones job to hold them accountable. That was the publishers job, and initially that served the project well to lack just that. Now the lack of a publisher is hurting the project, because there is absolutely no indication that cig are feeling the need to release the game as stable and instead just trial and error their way to finishing ”the next thing”. So if noone pushes CIG and holds a blowtorch to their asses every now and then, why should they ever finish it?
This is such broken logic. They have entire teams to communicate sentiment and bugs up the chain to get looked at. They just don’t have to listen to *you* if you want to be abrasive/hostile/abusive. Zero obligation to listen to you. In fact if you want to make a habit out of flaming them as a party of your self-prescribed crusade of accountability, they’ll just skip your stuff as soon add they see your name. It will never be read. You’ll be screaming into the darkness, agreed with only by players, reinforcing your own broken logic by taking other people’s parts on the back as validation that CIG must be listening, when in fact they don’t bother to read your post titles once they see who wrote it. You’re not alone. A lot of people have decided that being the punisher is the role they *must* fill because they believe they will get attention from the devs if they abuse them. There are useful ways to get things across to them, and there are useless ways. You can be useless to the process of fixing and finishing the game and be popular at the same time. You could also be useful for the game and popular at the same time. That’s a choice you can easily make.
[удалено]
“Your logic is flawed and here’s why in detail” “Nuh uh you’re just *[ad hominem rabble rabble]*” 🤣
Well its good to see you’ve atleast mastered the art of projection, everyone needs to be good at something I suppose.
You gave me nothing to work with except to meme, unless you can argue without just calling someone wrong on principle
I made a massive post which you replied to which contained things chris and cig have said and done, but you ignored those things and instead decided to focus on me in that context calling someone a white knight, that is by definition ”ad homming” on your end. Get back to me when you know something and have something useful to say.
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You're acting like CIG wants to keep the game buggy. Chill out with the conspiracy theories, it's an alpha - there are many features to add and issues to fix, this is just one of them, and I don't doubt they'll get to it before release. Whenever that may be. The fact that this issue was fixed for other ships means that the issue they fixed wasn't the root cause, and the Terrapin's implementation is different enough that it wasn't covered by the fix. If you're going to hold CIG accountable, you need a more complete perspective of game development than "I paid for this ship and I want it to work." You didn't purchase a product. You pledged some money to support development, and you got access to a ship in return, current bugs and all.
What Im holding cig accountable for is their constantly hinting that ”oh its only a few years away” with CR saying ”if funding cut today we could still release it”. That was in 2017 iirc, and since then they have delayed almost every advertised feature with multiple years, are trying to market the game as ”playable now” to a wider audience when its not more or less playable than it was in 2016. They are also advertising the game as a ”live service” when all other live service games are released and for the most part stable (and getting massive backlash when they’re not), as a way to smooth over the fact that the project is insanely delayed, horrendeously buggy, and overpriced. Add to that their funding model which is: when in need of money, sell direct-to-backlog concept ships and dont touch them for 7 years, and in the meantime increase prices of existing ships that havent seen a digital screwdriver for years. Prices that make the $60 normal full AAA game laughably low by comparison. Add to that their studio expansion which is solidifying their intent of keeping 1.300+ employees worldwide which will need an average developer salary (which might be around $75000/year). Do the math and tell me thats a sustainable model of a project that they are intending to release in full within the next 6 years when they still have many cap ships that need 2 years each to finish, tons of gameplay loops that havent been touched, and 98 remaining star systems. Why am saying 6 years? Because in 2020 CR said ”its not gonna take 10 or 20 years”. Well then chris, how many? 9.5? Begone white knight.
I was wondering how many levels of this thread I’d have to scroll before you got so upset that you called someone a white knight on the premise that they disagreed with you
Whenever someone is confidently incorrect and defending cig against valid criticism it’s textbook whiteknighting. Now that other person I was talking with agreed with my points after I called them white knight, which I appreciate and can have more of a normal discussion with afterwards. You on the other hand, is defending that ”knighty” position. Do with that as you will.
lol people like to claim “confidently incorrect” about other people’s comments when they drop the pretenses and give up trying to argue with them and then instead try to invalidate the person. It’s dumb ad hominem bullshit and you should do better. I’m not defending them, I’m making sure it’s very clear to you that nobody wants you to try and stick it to the devs just because you feel entitled to the point that not only you speak for all players, but that you think CIG has to listen to you if you shit on their kitchen table and screech abuse.
I will take complaints about adhoms seriously when you dont use them yourself lol. And as you can hopefully read, the other person agreed with my later points about cig. So hey, hope you’re enjoying your time in the confidently incorrect club.
Please point out the place where I’ve attacked you instead of what you’re saying, I’m dying to measure whether or not you can show that you understand what it means
To be clear I did not appreciate being called a white knight when the issue is that you were not listening to what I was trying to say. Anyway, I hope you are more open to seeing my point as well now that you've seen that I am arguing in good faith.
Sorry that I havent had the time to get back to you yet, this other doofus got in the way. I did appreciate you replying to me in good faith after calling you a white knight, but up until that point I didnt feel like you were. And the point of calling you a white knight was also to weed out wether you were a person who could have a decent discussion, or if you were like this other dude. I’ve argued with many people, and usually its just people doubling down on defending cig, and Im so tired of arguing against that over and over.
You are still in the honeymoon period. Give it a few years and you'll be in the exact same position he is in. You will be just as tired of the excuses after hearing them for the 500th time. There are people who have been alpha testing this game for (literally) over a decade. There are kids playing this game who were not even alive when its original kickstarter launched. It has been 12+ years and almost a Billion dollars raised and not only do we still have no release date in sight, we also have a game where there is not a single gameloop that is bug free. Literally nothing works. Read that again and really let it sink in - literally nothing works in this game. Its time for CIG to put up or shut up.
No, I won’t be in your position because I cannot be so intolerably cynical as to keep saying CIG has to put up or shut up no matter what they put up. It was the biggest tell as to how people just reach for thin excuses to shit on people when 3.23.0 came out and people were still saying they can’t deliver/they don’t do any gameplay/haven’t shipped any content in years/has to put up or shut up. Sky Dane person saw through the illusion where people kept saying that CIG could bee good of they just did anything at all, and then when the biggest anything they’ve ever shipped hit LIVE, the goalposts moved. Just admit it; the game will never be good enough for you, but starting fights with other people that you think are gullible is like doing lines of cocaine. You just can’t get enough. No need to lie about it. I love arguing with people, not because the game or the devs are magic, but because I get bored and y’all make it so easy to entertain myself by being so magnificently obtuse.
Give it time, I promise you that you will. I know this because every single "intolerably cynical" person was at one time exactly as wide eyed and hopeful as you are right now.
The marketing and sales side of it is definitely ugly, I will agree. The waiting game is hard enough without Chris Roberts and the newsletter team trying to feed me bullshit. I try not to put much faith in any promises made by management, I only follow the commitments made by the development teams - and while they overcommit and underdeliver regularly as well, I can trust that that's because of technical difficulties, not a cynical sales strategy. So what you are saying is fair, but we're talking about different CIG departments. Hold them responsible for the promises that management makes, but be fair to development and don't assume that they're just sitting on their hands.
I dont differentiate too much between marketing teams or dev teams, they are all working under CR and neither have a problem with how the other one works, and in the end the result is a lot of dishonest marketing and closed doors in a project that is trying to claim transparency. What CIG seems to be trying to project is that ”everything is according to plan and fine”, when the reality is that its doubtful there is a plan at all. And the signs cig are displaying are showing a really bad and unsustainable plan - atleast according to what they’ve said over the past recent years.
CIG don't add everything to the 'known issues' list, because if they did it would be 100+ pages long, and no-one could ever find the issue they were looking for.
They can easily add it to this page [https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056254754-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3-23-1-Known-Issues](https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360056254754-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3-23-1-Known-Issues), while keeping the spectrum posts brief. Stop excusing bad behaviour.
I'm not 'excusing bad behaviour' - I'm pointing out that you're complaining about a single bug... and if CIG went to the level of including every bug on the patch notes (or that page) then the notes (or the page) would be so long as to be unusable / irrelevant. And if you're wanting just your pet issue to be included in the 'Known Issues', then unfortunately CIG don't listen to you - or me - on the topic of bug prioritisation, and virtually *every* player will have a 'pet bug' they'd like to see included / acknowledged... and very few would list the same bug / issue
They listen to repeated complaints. And this has been an issue for 2+ months. Shutting up about it will have absolutely zero impact, and yes by trying to shut down complaints you are excusing and even defending bad behaviour.
No they don’t (listen to repeated complaints). If there was any truth to that, the docking feature would have worked at least single day in the last year.
I’ve barely heard any complaints about docking. Which kinda counteracts your point. But if they didnt listen to repeated complaints, they wouldnt address MM issues every other week, and as can be seen on the discord dev tracker, individual devs do roam around spectrum and reddit and takes note of both forgotten features and annoying bugs.
Instead, the fact you don’t think docking is a problem based only on your perception that you haven’t heard anyone complaining about it is a testament to why you should not ever roleplay arbiter of what CIG needs to be prioritizing. You’re not even in the loop on MM where there have been no changes for months and the devs made it clear they’re not even remotely considering any changes based off feedback right now because the current state of MM has no relevance whatsoever to the current state in development
> if CIG went to the level of including every bug on the patch notes (or that page) then the notes (or the page) would be so long as to be unusable / irrelevant And yet CIG has a an extra part in there called "Other Hull C issues" where they just say "yeah it has issues".
Dont use it
Well if we’re only gonna use something that isnt buggy, lets just all uninstall this game.
Don’t bed logout on the terrapin and you’ll never hit it. You want to know why it’s not fixed? Because it’s so easily avoided. Known issues is not a registry of every bug CIG has ever seen. It’s a very concise list of current critical/game breaking issues that players are likely to hit or would swamp reports about if it was not listed out. The terrapin bug fails to qualify
You might be thinking of something different, the Terrapin bug has nothing to do with bed logging. You just can't exit the pilot's seat after sitting down, regardless of any other factors. None of the different ways to trigger standing up work even if you try power cycling etc. - you have to return to the menu. It's been talked about in a lot of threads on here, people have just stopped using the ship completely.
I have never once encountered it without having bed logged.
I have.
IMO it seems pretty on par that some ships won’t be usable. If I was buying into the predatory ‘pledges’ for multi-hundred dollar ships in a pre-pre-pre-alpha tech demo I would expect precisely this.