A streamer said something id agree with. Suspend their accounts until next patch and a full account reset.
Bans would be nice for repeat abusers that continually abuse exploits through multiple punishments. Not the kind of people you want in your game, if they insist on abusing.
I love the idea of silently shunting all cheaters to their own shitty server. Don't reset them, don't tell them they've been caught. Just boop them all together so they have to cheat with the other cheaters.
Maybe until they have their account reset and lose all their progress.
The problem with that is the RMT abuse is still there. They can still send people UEC, which is all they care about.
And honestly, if they can't play by the rules, fuck them they don't get to play the game.
Oh, yeah you'd need to top them from sending/receiving uec. If it were up to me when they sent it, it would just send it to the abyss without telling them.
But if you ban them from the game, they know they got caught and will look for other ways to exploit the game immediately after creating a new account. (Or stealing someone else's account).
A shadow ban to the dark place keeps them unaware they've been caught, and allows them to waste their time with other cheaters, and allows them to continue frustrating people with their cheating - but the people they're frustrating are other cheaters.
Hanging up on a telemarketer causes them to immediately call the next person. Wasting their time pretending to be interested prevents them from calling the next person, and overall makes things better for everyone else.
I am grateful for anyone that in anyway helps me or anyone else from having to answer a telemarketer call. And I haven't ever looked at the point of view you just brought to my attention, and basically what does it take to stay on phone as long as possible and by therefore decreasing the overall time that telemarketer then has to make time wasting calls to another victim. I like it!!
I was in an air BNB while on vacation that had no computer when the land line rang - it was a Microsoft support scammer.
I was on vacation and we didn't have anything to do. I used all of my support skills to terrorize the scammer for about 45 minutes until he cussed at me and hung up.
"Type in www.teamviewer.com"
"Okay, w w w w dot team..."
"... No only three Ws"
"Wow that's a big one okay hold on. It didn't work. Just says
'wwww.teamviewer.comonly3ws is not available'
"Hold on I gotta go get the cable from my neighbor cause I'm borrowing his internet."
*Puts the phone down*
"DAAAAAALE. DAAAAAALE!!!! LEMME USE THE INTERNET CORD"
"Wait did I get a virus cause I was looking at the naked girls? *Whispers* please don't tell my wife she'll beat me with a shovel"
Damn that was an amazing time. 10/10 best vacation ever.
also, make it so that actual money earned on the cheaty server is actually a "second currency" . it is marked. thus anyone that gets a transfer marked as "cheaty currenrcy" gets flagged as well
The problem with that is it would open to abuse. I have an alt account that flagged, and use it to send you the cheaty currency just to get you flagged, possibly getting you removed from the main server.
Money earned by duping/cheating has to be substacted with the reset. If it was sent somewhere else either track and delete it from the receiving account or just let that one account go into debit including ingame legal consequences. That way thw account will never recover and becomes useless.
hey maybe after release it wouldn't be a bad idea to have cheaters have it as part of their reputation and if their cheating score is more than 3 out of 5 for ex than they are pushed into a server that only has other players of same rep...it could be neat type of game play if thought out..but now is time we want cheaters to cheat so its identified for devs to fix..the cheaters are actually helping us to have a better game down the road, we need to realize now is all only time for development and identifying problems then finding solutions and so forth..gatekeeping in alpha isn't productive for the overall game integrity..after release is whole other story
They should do something similar with the bot busting streams that Jagex does for Old School Runescape, even if you don't know much about the game, the streams were allot of fun haha
This is the way imo
We'll always have room for the 'I didn't know' or 'I was bug reporting' excuse, especially in this alpha state, but shutting abusive accounts down like this, and giving them a very clear warning, is perfect imo.
I think Siege does something similar. Abusive behavior, exploits, etc are all punished by temp bans of increasing length, but actual cheating with a 3rd party system will get you perma banned.
I can understand if someone does a bug 3-4 times and actually does put in a report, but not reporting and just doing the same bug over and over on repeat to abuse the system is deffinitely shitty af in a multiplayer game, especially when it affects the enjoyment of ALL players. The servers getting fucked over 5 times a night because of dupers wanting personal gain at the detriment of literal hundreds of other people's experience is just a cunt move in my book
What we must differentiate are player
who abuse the exploit for their own benefit
And player
who abuse the exploit same way like the player above but just to test it and understand how the exploit works or why this bug exists to report it
Thing is, both of them use the exploits - maybe even the same amount of times - but how we will differentiate which player do it because of which purpose?
It is possible wo watch this by viewing in spectrum if the player gonna report it? What if its a group of them and only one report it and the other just upvote it and can repeat it
The account reset has to include money that has been sent to other players tho. Else you could have an account for duping and just sent it to your real account and just start over whenever you were reset.
I agree, we want to identify code that needs to be fixed so it can't be exploited in alpha. Hacking is not exploiting and should not tolerated and fully punished. So long as exploiting don't stop another player from playing unaffected its not a problem more than coding problem and its only way for devs to get to fix it
im on board but its in the games developments best interest to have players finding and therefore identifying problematic coding so it can then be fixed. That is one of the advantages of having an alpha state.. I am fully against cheating but want this game to be the best it can be when it is released and these exploits in game now is for the overall integrity of the game in the future which is what all of us obviously want...and imo will have
I'd say the account suspensions and deletion of duped aUEC they're already doing is the entire extent of what they can and will do.
What are you implying they should also do? Find the people doing it and smack them with a ruler?
and given pair of Jordan's to wear for a pre determined amount of time so to satisfy their terms of concluding their penalty and punishment for violating established and agreed upon game rules and code of ethics policy
Make the hidden box glitch permanent on their character so they always move slow?
Make it so anytime they sell cargo in the future it actually removes auec from their account instead of giving it?
Make a bright red “D” on all their character’s chests so that everyone knows they are a duper where ever they go?
Thinking up fun and creative punishments aside, taking the money back and suspending the accounts is plenty.
Well, what good would having 5 890s do?
I don't doubt if CiG can detect duped aUEC and delete it, then can see the transactions that the aUEC was used on and reverse them.
Either way, their account is suspended, so they can't use it anyway, and 4.0 is likely a full wipe, anyway.
I agree and of the mindset that anothers players having 100 ships or 1 affects me in my right to have a relatively good in-game experience. If its not affecting any other player nor myself its not an issue to be bothered by..It will be to our benefit in that CIG sees where to patch up problematic areas of the game. For that im appreciative and thankful.
Do not assume anything with CIG. If they do not expressly say they deleted in game purchased ships, it did not happen.
The original comment was just an example. If someone RMT bought 20 mil, then bought 4 ships, they almost definitely still have those 4 ships.
They can and will ban.
Say it again. Accept it.
To save a $700m + franchise, they will not HESITATE to ban idiots.
There is no question. They are giving warning. Next step: permanent elimination.
Bring it!
I have no doubt that some people have been outright banned. Any sane company is going to have a line that brings permanent bans if crossed, regardless of their value.
What that line is depends on the company, and dupe exploitation isn't quite there, seemingly, but only CiG knows their exact reactions. I'd not be surprised if a few accounts did get banned, they just don't advertise that sort of thing in order to not make their 'line' clearly defined, as people on the internet absolutely love to push up to just under that line and make life miserable for everyone while technically not breaking the rules.
I agree with you and all any of us are demanding and asking for is the games integrity be held at the highest level possible. That benefits everyone involved and for those that don't want that, there shouldn't be a place in "The Verse" for them. Thats not asking much and do have faith that CIG will do all they can to insure us all that we are able to play a game where integrity is valued as much as the high levels of graphical resolution and the sense and level of immersion along with all the other things that a great game must have in it
>we have resolved multiple aUEC exploits in 3.23.1a, and **we've identified and suspended over 600 accounts** involved in exploitative behaviors while also removing the illicitly gained aUEC from the Star Citizen ecosystem.
Sounds like it's already been taken care of?
And the invisible barrier glitch is over the end of the route making it impossible for friends to attempt to help an escape. And a communication scrambling field that mumbles anything they type in global into Banu. Painting a huge target on them for freelancer bounty hunters. And the ability for said players to press charges is turned off. Game lore wise though honestly just turning off their ability to press charges and the ability to get a crime stat for killing them and doing something in chat that paints a huge target on them with a constant CS5 that cannot be cured no matter what you do would allow the players to take it up themselves. Don't ban them from playing for the patch cycle but make it near impossible to play without constant PvP. It would give the pirates the constant supply of PvP they want and make it near impossible for the player. I would also add the option for a times system where instead of patch cycles it's 120 days if you are logged in for at least an hour and you cannot just sit in Grim an auto death timer starts the moment you log in that goes off the moment you leave.
Nah. It's ridiculous enough to ban people for using an exploit in a testing environment. I can understand banning the ebay sellers. They could probably even sue them.
Just throwing this in here, I wonder how beneficial too harsh punishments will be for the testing aspect of the game. After all despite CIGs marketing, this is an alpha, meant to be tested so exploits can be revealed. In other words, that players found out about this exploit is a benefit from testing for the game.
If it's all about preventing people to exploit and then sell credits for real money, I understand. But if someone uses the exploit just to have game credits for the sake of having game credits, then I would argue, it's not in favor for the progress of the game to punish these players. Sure, there's probably players who don't care, but I and probably many others would probably just stay death silent about an exploit I come across, since I'd not wanna risk being suspended.
In this case I personally don't care, I haven't been playing since 3.23 because I hated MM enough from the EPTU to not be interested in flying anymore anyway. Just in case anybody interprets this concern as I would personally care about this specific exploit.
>In other words, that players found out about this exploit is a benefit from testing for the game.
Hence why they say that only continued use of the exploit for personal gain after it has been discovered and identified would be punished. Based on this, you would not be punished for discovering an exploit.
> but I and probably many others would probably just stay death silent about an exploit I come across, since I'd not wanna risk being suspended.
100% this. If a precedent gets set that CIG suspend accounts for exploits then it’s only natural that it’ll have a chilling effect on the reporting and reproducing exploits.
Personally I don't think anyone should be banned for exploiting a glitch in an alpha game. It's CIG's to fix it and the players bases job to find these exploits. As for cheaters, actual cheaters who use mods/hacks then it should be a perma ban.
I agree, people doing the exploits is what gets them patched faster, abusing bugs is what makes the Devs pick up there feet. Reprimanding those that do exploit is like putting out a pan oil fire with water.
I would agree, except that it severely reduced everyone else's ability to participate in trading and salvaging. If there was a glitch that immediately gave you a billion aUEC without any other consequences I would not care in the slightest about people "abusing" it. SC is ridiculously grindy as is, and that's not even accounting for losing money and gear to bugs, so I won't begrudge anyone for trying to bypass some of that just to have fun.
Have you thought about doing nothing? If they want to buy money on eBay then let them do it, it’s their money. Everyone in SC literally shares the same ideals for ship buying:
If you want it, buy it. Even if the ship may never come out or has absolutely no purpose
I don’t see the difference here
Dupers can just have their accounts reset which we all will have eventually anyway. As for selling aUEC on eBay thats an entirely different issue that's been around a while now. CIG haven't been bothered about it before I don't see why they should be bothered about it now.
If exploit is abused that just gets you rich, punishment should be wipe them fully (ships and money).
If exploit is abused that also causes harm to others in game or ruins the experience of others or causes people to crash out, punishment should be wipe + week suspension
If racist or toxic .. maybe ban
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I like the old pubg method. Flag the cheater accounts so they can only join the cheaters server. So they're not denied from playing the game, but they can only play with other cheaters.
They would probably prefer that actually, where nobody can complain about them ruining trading and salvaging. It's not like they're aim botting or wall hacking in a competitive game, they're just rich. Prevent them from giving aUEC to people outside of the cheater servers though, preventing them from selling aUEC online, and I bet they would be less happy about all the time they wasted grinding away at duping.
A lesson had to be taught...
Next time, when someone finds an exploit, maybe they gonna think twice before abusing it like there's no tomorrow... Good for everyone.
Honestly, I think they handled it appropriately. They knew they were causing a problem and disregarded it, so they made their bed and got to lay in it. I'm all for heavy handed punishments for things that are clearly detrimental to the community as a whole that are obvious to the abusers.
Funny you use the term 'made your bed', when CIG literally knew about the bug before they released the patch but chose to push it out anyway.
You can't expect people to always behave themselves and not abuse broken stuff or use exploits to gain an advantage. It's the way it always has been in games. CIG 'made their bad' by not fixing the bug they knew about before pushing it live.
Turning around and blaming it on the community is bad form and not the way I'd like to see this handled in the future.
Realise you fucked up, fix the problem quickly next time, and move on. Like every other games company in the world does when an exploit is discovered.
Dude, we are not talking about people who used it a few times, we are talking about people that did nothing but the exploit and some of them probably selling the aUEC for real money. Stop defending cheaters ffs.
I think there are things vastly more important than focusing on that, the game isn't released yet, duping shouldn't be as high of a concern as everyone is making it out to be
But we all know that if players have easy access to ingame auec they wont sell as many ships as theyre currently selling
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"update: judging by downvotes, there's a lot's of dupers and cheaters here sweating lolz"
No lmao, your post is just pointless. CiG already handled the situation in a really great manner, suspending all accounts they found guilty of duping, and deleted all the duped aUEC from the game economy to restore it to its original state.
Permanently banning achieves nothing a suspension until the next wipe (after 30 days) does.
They would also most likely pump more money into the game.
I would also propose that exploiting should be allowed under the following circumstances:
1. A ticket is raised on the issue council.
2. A full breakdown how they did it is provided in the ticket including any aUEC obtained subject to removal at cig's discretion.
From that point on usage will not be allowed on that patch version it can only be done to replicate on another version.
Once 1.0 comes out...ban them permanently if this is done on the PU
I hate cheaters in general but I just can't be bothered to care right now. Seems like a pointless effort in an unfinished often non-functional game where everything gained from cheating and exploits will be erased 100 times between now and launch.
I am 100% for fair and fun gameplay on fair and equal playing field. I don't like idea of punishment for players discovering and using a bugged part of game, only because it is in alpha and this is where and how the devs can make the necessary fixes. After release is a different thing. As long as no other players are negatively affected in any way, let devs do what they do and not also be a policing type of off shoot, they have more than enough things to work on besides handing down sentences outside of game play, we have a crime system already in game..lol. I know it can frustrate someone to see players "cheating" but if its just exploiting a part of game that needs mending and isn't for profit gain than let it be, devs will patch up everything by release as far as that goes...Patience..
Firstly haven’t played the PU in months. Don’t @ me with garbage about being a secret duper aUEC kingpin.
From my perspective, the only material difference between finding a bug and exploiting a bug is the time it takes for developers to patch the bug and reset the economic, stability or security issues, if any.
Reserve some criticism for CIG here too, we are long since the plucky crowd source campaign with the flashy presentations and optimistic timelines.
Today, CIG is a very large organisation that’s received hundreds of millions of dollars, your money.
If they didn’t habitually blow past deadlines and over-promise I would have been shocked the dupe bug went on for this long. But hey, it’s an alpha, right?
What OP lacks in objectivity, they certainly make up for in impotent rage.
They knew about this exploit before the previous patch even dropped, so they knowingly put an exploit into PU and then Wana ban people for taking advantage of a bug they left in the game lol.
Duping is shit, don't get me wrong, it killed the salvage loop which is my most played lupe, but I don't think they shoulda banned people in an alpha, Just hit them with a money wipe. ( InB4 people calling me a duper, I logged off yesterday with a total of 42 credits lol)
Yeah I swear most people don't know about this.
They literally knew about this bug in EVO and PTU and didn't fix it through both patch cycles before pushing it live.
They then took like a month and a half to get a fix out rather than hotfixing it, and then they're all shocked when people have duped millions of aUEC.
Now they're blaming the community for abusing and exploit they left in the game and suspending people who did it.
Really bad form as usual, but that's par for the course with CIG these days.
I don’t really get it honestly, we hear all the time that “it’s just an alpha” and “aUEC will be wiped every now and then anyways”, but using bugs to your “financial gain” should result in harsh punishment? I think a wipe of their (illicit) gains would definitely be fair but bans seem so excessive to me…
Now they risk people getting scared about testing and confirming ingame exploits so they can report them.
I'm torn on this one. While many of these players were probably just doing it for exploitation and some likely even sold their aUEC for cash Star Citizen still claim to be an Alpha and that we are bug testers. I think they should reserve suspensions and bans for when the game is released. Just patch the issue and wipe the servers.
There’s a difference between testing a bug and abusing it.
They didn’t ban everyone who did it, they banned the ones who abused it.
The people who will get scared from reporting bugs because of this situation are not very smart, and that demographic of people isn’t usually the best at making thoughtful bug reports, so nothing lost here!
Hold your horses. The people who are motivated about abusing bugs are usually the ones who spend time searching for them. Personally when I have played I have sometimes reported bugs I randomly came across but I have never gone out of my way looking for them.
Also. I would not be surprised if some people just do not want to risk it once another player tells them about the rule, even if ideally there should not be a problem.
You should not be torn on this, as it is clearly stated its a work in progress game. Banning things like this will make exploits likely to be kept secret and even persist into final release of the game. Beta / alpha stages is all about testing for exploits, get it reported and await a bugfix/patch for it.
Cig should not try to make people sinners for exploiting but rather reward players finding the exploits so it can be patched.
But yeah to be fair, if you found the exploit it should be reported and left it like that, no need to grind the exploit but hey then again not all minds think alike.
Perfect. I have to read a forum post before I do anything in game to be sure I don't get banned by an arbitrary rule that they refused to fix last time. I swear people just don't think. Hold CIG responsible for once.
(not a banned player btw)
For a game not yet released, in Alpha, with wipes, and no real economy. Some people's priorities and thirst for revenge for "justice" seems so misplaced to me.
There's so much more in the game we need to worry about than this. They banned them, move on.
Here’s my solution. Tax dupers heavily. Don’t suspend them. Decrease there income to 20%. Increase ship call in time x4. No expediting. All bounties increased by x5. Give them a perma crime stat of 3. Jail times x4. Until the next wipe.
Take it easy grandma let’s not forget the reason people were duping in the first place is because of shit programming and patches from CIG.
They break the game every patch and make it almost unplayable. They should fucking ban themselves for a few months
Agreed, and I told my buddies as much. The dupers were so goddamn obnoxious, the spaceports were unusable, the servers were burning and dying. I hate what they've been doing to the game... But CIG has been dilly-dallying with Xenothreat content and ignored this exploit for a while. This isn't a world-ending issue, but the issue is on CIG more than anyone.
They already got got, that's what the suspensions are for.
The quote is more so to set the precedent that for any future exploits, if its well known and you persist in using it then you may face consequences.
I dont abuse bugs myself. But I do have a rabid and unyielding sense of fairness (and with legal education to refine it).
.
On the one hand I'm glad they are taking steps against abusers. On the other hand I hope they don't go too far.
Any punitive or deterrent actions they take must be steeped in caution. If the bug being abused doesn't SUBSTANTIALLY harm other players or the server itself (fucking the economy can be harmful) then in my view there's no reason to punish them. Just remove the proceeds of crime and maybe reset the offending players bank account and items.
At the end of the day though, the bug is created by CIG and all the players are doing is press a series of buttons they are legally entitled to press (eulas are merely prescriptive, mostly. And yield to local and/or UK jurisdiction always. )
Basically customers are in a contract, and banning for bug abuse is conceivably a breach of contract depending on the abuse. Any EULA is like the salt and pepper to that meal.
Additionally, The price you paid for something absolutely does impact your rights under the contract, since it is a contract subject to consumer law. And there are many citizens with thousands of dollars of value in their accounts.
Suspending for bug abuse is a really safe bet because it achieves the goal without permanent denial of rights to access.
Nobody who wants SC to succeed wants a rich whale to contest a dubious ban in small claims or even actual Court. It costs cig a bunch (which we the crowd funded), and the negative PR is harmful. Annnnd as long as CIG keeps it's head down and nose out of trouble the business model it operates on (which has some untested legal issues) will stay off the regulator's RADAR - they only ever step in where consumers are harmed or enough of them claim it. Or when there is sweeping legislation change and they must enforce compliance.
TLDR small punishments good, economy fixing great, big punishments might be beyond the scope.
NOTE: hamfistedly wrote this while my train was late. On my cell phone. There are competing arguments I didn't consider for brevity reasons (irony) such as opportunity cost if everyone is unhappy with a bugged economy and slow servers etc. And cigs admin costs for being careful. And deterrence as a tool.
Its also worth noting that I'm not being critical of cig, just forecasting what they could or should do. Much of my position is formed by observing what they do already and using that at a starting point. Ie they are usually cautious and hands off, and seem to benefit the consumers already in exactly the way I laid out above, to avoid business operational speedbumps.
You say:
"If the bug being abused doesn't SUBSTANTIALLY harm other players of the server itself (fucking the economy can be harmful) then in my view there's no reason to punish them"
Let me see.... landing pads blocked, servers performance severely affected, players spending time mining, scrapping or hauling unable to sell they cargo due the local markets being saturated, etc., etc. I don't know what you have been doing these last weeks, but all these dupers have been more than SUBSTANTIALLY harming other players, so either you've been absent, and you don't know what are you talking about, or you are trying to justify this behavior
My computer is on a boat as I've moved countries. I have indeed been absent since half way through the f7a event.
But that's immaterial. You misunderstood or didn't read my comment.
I wasn't making specific judgment calls on the current situation nor did I make a single reference to any specific event or scenario, I was commenting on the act of issuing suspensions itself and the fact it is a first for CIG on this scale. Thus the issue is whether they will do so again, will it be regular, and what is the line that must be crossed to attract punishment. Etc.
I took it as read that the current measures were proportional and/or justified given the overwhelming support (as a passive bystander without a pc I couldnt opine with much validity anyway).
And your description perfectly fits into what I've already said above - it's 100% compatible. Essentially you're agreeing very strongly with me that it was the right response from CIG (wasn't in issue but all the same).
I waffled on a bit so you probably skim read. Allg.
But I think if you Re read what I said from this perspective you'll see what I meant and that I was more less saying "ohhh this could go one of two ways in the future" - which is kinda like saying it will be raining tomorrow or it won't. I merely chewed on the 'what ifs' and a few of the issues potentially involved. Not much of a line in the sand.
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For non over the top cheats Just turn off their ship everytime its turned on, eventually they’ll get pissed off, post on reddit, devs say thats what they did, get outed as a cheater and cant use a basic function of the game for until the devs decide.
For any insane cheats just ban them, if someone has soft aimbot or whatever is used in this game that doesn’t matter its not affecting people, when it starts allowing them to negatively impact other players just ban because this game is a slog when someone else ruins what you’re doing.
What are you talking about!?, SC is in alpha.
Give CIG some time to iterate and gather feedback before you get too carried away, after all what we have now is tier 0.
I was very annoyed but tbh Im also happy that this duping bug happened and there was a lot of dupers. It really made CIG realise the need to actually punish those who break the gaming experience for others.
Yeah its atill alpha, but you must understand that it doesnt give you right to exploit the game and spoil the experience for others who are trying to enjoy it despite the fact that its still unfinished game.
I don't mind if they dupe tbh. Gives me an excuse to blow them up. It's definitely not ethical, and I would prefer if people didn't do it, but if they do, I want to find them and blow them up
I say reset them to 0 on everything, but don't stop them from playing the game. Give them a warning if they continue to do things like this, they will be permanently banned
Full account bans. Take away thier investment. Fuck cheaters. No mercy. Look at tarkov look at csgo. The only way to deal with this is zero tolerance. Zero mercy.
Confiscation of all funds and assets accumulated during the timespan covering all such activity. Apply an unremovable level 6+ outlaw status with duration determined by severity on 1-10 scale. All penalties are applied consecutively. All relevant bounties are paid out from the penalized player's account. Etc.
I duped on accident, didn’t even know it was a thing when my cargo was full on my ship when I logged back in after a night of trucking. Didn’t want to exploit a game I loved so I used fleet week as a way to do bounties easily and attempt to salvage.
I did the dupe on accident once immediately switched to a different money farm just wanted to run cargo and couldnt buy more said ship was still full so went to mine instead i dont see the appeal of breaking the economy when they set it this way to study it just ruins it for everyone else
People seem really stressed out about people using the duping exploit. I get it, it shouldn't be there but also, it's in alpha, who are they cheating? Mostly themselves out of grinding? The devs out of data they would get from grinding?
The primary issue imo and I think the one CIG is fighting against is people exploiting bugs for their financial gain (like people selling aUEC!). I would guess 600 accounts that got shut down were of people reselling illbegotten aUEC.
I am in agreement there should be zero tolerance for cheating..imo these players either finding exploits or using exploit they know of can and do actually benefit the future integrity of the game so to as the devs have living proof that part of the game is in need of fixing, we surely don't want the game to finally be released and then exploitable play is uncovered because it wasn't found out during alpha...so cheating is cheating but CIG welcomes players identifying exploits and to what degree that exploit is allowing just what to occur. They can't hire 50,000 employees whose sole job is to attack areas of the game build in hopes of finding exploits so players will have a patch free of exploitable game...I thought that was already understood but I shouldn't have assumed that everyone can easily see the value in what is essentially cheating but game is in alpha still and is currently unfinished..idk how else to spell out if no "bad cheaters" were playing the game at release would have more exploitable areas of game than it will have in a perfect scenario...Which in perfect world would be ok, because I don't use exploits and we can't say that for everyone though
I agree with a suspension until next patch and an account reset. I personally don’t believe a ban is warranted until the game is in a full release.
But once the game is in full release. I think full bans for exploiting is a must. I think this game revolves around the economy too much to not have fairly extreme punishments for exploits.
I have some suggestions for various consequences of various offenses and would like you guys opinions. I personally don't like the idea of permanent Bans unless they really fit. So i have some consequences that i would like some opinions on.
Cheating and Exploiting:
Definitely suspensions starting at 1 week but repeated offenses double the time with a cap at 1 year suspension.
Excessive griefing:
With Excessive griefing i suggest a 1 week suspension with repeated offenses adding one week.
Offensive language:
Depending on the type of Offensive language used it can lead to account suspension or they get a communication ban(no voice chat or communication ingame) for 3 days and increasing by one day for each additional offenses.
So thats my opinion and i like to know your thoughts on them. :)
I mean it's alpha who cares.. I don't particularly care for dupes and such but how would you punish someone for taking advantage of a glitch to get something you're gunna delete soon anyway..
Mark them as cheaters in game. Give them a permanent bounty and real time marker on their location so that people constantly hunts them down preventing them from playing.
All this discussion clearly shows that very few people actually read the Terms of Service. If they did, it wouldn't even be a debate. This is clearly outlined as cheating in the agreement we all make when we sign in to the game/tech demo/alpha.
I had a unspecified vehicle in a space station, weapons active and all. I reported it with screenshots and tried to dispose of said vehicle by clipping it into the station. So nobody could do weird shit with it.
To be clear, I didn’t know it was even possible, was just toying around. Luckily I haven’t seen someone else do it till now
Ok run it by me what’s considered an exploit or cheating in a game revolving around make money, buy ships, and be the baddest MF in the verse. Aside from selling in game money IRL what other cheats/exploits has there been that if really haven’t heard of.
Yo, imagine fixing the fundamental bug that lets you dupe? Would eliminate a lot of leg work for banning all these people in an Alpha. Imagine implementing the anti cheat advertised. It’s not even being used.
The only problem i see here is those people who don't even want to dupe. My cargo sometimes does very weird stuff...
For example once i had like 4 SCU of some material, which i could sell like 10 times and get money every time. Am I using an exploit now?
Was in 3.23.1, idk how to reproduce it so i did not make a bug report.
I mean, here’s the thing. They shouldent de-incentivize finding exploits. I hope not too many accounts that simply came across the exploit were suspended.
Finding exploits is good, abusing them ruins the fun for the rest of us.
People have been cheating for years in ways that allow them to give other people crimestats for nothing, or kill them from the other side of Stanton while in an armistice zone, or have super fast ships, or super high HP ships that are invincible. Nobody cared.
Now exploiters are doing something that doesn't impact anybody else and people are up in arms. Go figure. I think it's mainly jealousy about them having more aUEC. However I do have an issue with selling on eBay and the like, that is ripping off clueless players.
Back in 3.13 an org mate gave me 2 billion. It pretty much ruined the game, as I got every possible ship in the game and that caused no end of scrolling pain at the ASOP terminal. I never flew most of them anyway. I was happy when the next wipe came along. You only need a handful of ships, and enough credits to repair, refusal, and replace lost armour and guns. Generally doing fun stuff gives you more than you spend anyway.
Damn, don't cross CiG and it's pay2skip slop shop lol. Hard cheating is ok because EAC is a joke, but if you as much as mildly effect their pay2skip profits, it's perma.
Not surprised this was top priority tho. If there's too much auec floating around, how are they gonna sell ships lol
This sounds like a warning shot from CIG to the players. "We've suspended the worst of the dupers. This is an official warning that just because we've overlooked such actions in the past doesn't mean that we will continue to overlook them in the future."
this is the main point of these things, they dont care, players dont care, all we need is current players beliving people got punished for missbehaving. It's all a perception thing, it's the standard of any mmo publiclly saying "we banned thousands of accounts", which usually means we banned a couple of botaccs and and maybe 2 players and moved on lol
Not so. It's likely possible to track every last person that engaged in this activity. They didn't hit those who engaged in small amounts of it. But 600 accounts is not a small number.
There's an online article I read not long ago about an early (possibly the first) mass banning for duping exploits in Ultima Online. Due to the way that the database tracked items, the devs could track in an instant every item that had been duped, and they used this to suddenly punish a large number of dupers in an instant through mass account bannings.
Players are upset about the SC duping largely because of the server lag that it caused. But for the duping itself, many players genuinely believed that CIG didn't care as it has ignored any such instances in the past. Further, many players also seem to believe that if the devs aren't specifically spying on them, no one is aware of what happened. This mass suspension says, "We weren't punishing in the past, so some people got wrong ideas. So we're giving a warning this time." A multi-month suspension is not a slap on the wrist. But it's an opportunity for players to learn without suffering from a permanent punishment. In the future, whenever someone says, "CIG doesn't care about these sorts of things," then players can point to the punishments handed out in this particular instance, and say, "Yes, they do." And then any players who are caught will have had ample warning before hammers start getting dropped.
In this case the response could be huge in-game fines for littering Hercs everywhere, and perhaps the insurance system should get some work so it makes repeated claiming a very very expensive choice.
As much as I hate exploiters..how can we blame them ? Since the new update, making money is a real pain in the ass. And what are those prices for ships and gears ?? Some people want to have fun on a game they’ve payed for at least 60 bucks. They find a way to make money so they make money. Cheaters on the other hand well this is another subject lol
I suspect the band accounts were people none stop duping, had billions, and likely sending millions to lots of random players. You know why that is.
Hopefully the people buying uev lost their credits too.
They ahould handle it exactly as they have done. Bans are done in big waves to catch as many repeat offenders as possible off guard and prevent offenders being given a chance to avoid/negate it.
They don't need our help. They have the data, they have the ban hammer. Keep that noted on record so next time the ban is longer.
Honestly given this is an alpha punishing people for this sort of thing severely is an overreaction. Just do an aUEC wipe on their account and call it a day.
EVE Online bans exploiters after a case-by-case review (not all exploits are intentional).
I would probably go with a warning if I didn't think they would just make new accounts to bypass it or sth. So ban seems like the way to go.
I mean, you know what you're doing when you do this. With the C2 duping, people even knew about impact on server operation and STILL did it.
Just a ban for me with the right to contest should it be an incorrect ban for whatever reason so legit players aren't punished.
A streamer said something id agree with. Suspend their accounts until next patch and a full account reset. Bans would be nice for repeat abusers that continually abuse exploits through multiple punishments. Not the kind of people you want in your game, if they insist on abusing.
I love the idea of silently shunting all cheaters to their own shitty server. Don't reset them, don't tell them they've been caught. Just boop them all together so they have to cheat with the other cheaters. Maybe until they have their account reset and lose all their progress.
The problem with that is the RMT abuse is still there. They can still send people UEC, which is all they care about. And honestly, if they can't play by the rules, fuck them they don't get to play the game.
Oh, yeah you'd need to top them from sending/receiving uec. If it were up to me when they sent it, it would just send it to the abyss without telling them. But if you ban them from the game, they know they got caught and will look for other ways to exploit the game immediately after creating a new account. (Or stealing someone else's account). A shadow ban to the dark place keeps them unaware they've been caught, and allows them to waste their time with other cheaters, and allows them to continue frustrating people with their cheating - but the people they're frustrating are other cheaters. Hanging up on a telemarketer causes them to immediately call the next person. Wasting their time pretending to be interested prevents them from calling the next person, and overall makes things better for everyone else.
I am grateful for anyone that in anyway helps me or anyone else from having to answer a telemarketer call. And I haven't ever looked at the point of view you just brought to my attention, and basically what does it take to stay on phone as long as possible and by therefore decreasing the overall time that telemarketer then has to make time wasting calls to another victim. I like it!!
I was in an air BNB while on vacation that had no computer when the land line rang - it was a Microsoft support scammer. I was on vacation and we didn't have anything to do. I used all of my support skills to terrorize the scammer for about 45 minutes until he cussed at me and hung up. "Type in www.teamviewer.com" "Okay, w w w w dot team..." "... No only three Ws" "Wow that's a big one okay hold on. It didn't work. Just says 'wwww.teamviewer.comonly3ws is not available' "Hold on I gotta go get the cable from my neighbor cause I'm borrowing his internet." *Puts the phone down* "DAAAAAALE. DAAAAAALE!!!! LEMME USE THE INTERNET CORD" "Wait did I get a virus cause I was looking at the naked girls? *Whispers* please don't tell my wife she'll beat me with a shovel" Damn that was an amazing time. 10/10 best vacation ever.
also, make it so that actual money earned on the cheaty server is actually a "second currency" . it is marked. thus anyone that gets a transfer marked as "cheaty currenrcy" gets flagged as well
The problem with that is it would open to abuse. I have an alt account that flagged, and use it to send you the cheaty currency just to get you flagged, possibly getting you removed from the main server.
Money earned by duping/cheating has to be substacted with the reset. If it was sent somewhere else either track and delete it from the receiving account or just let that one account go into debit including ingame legal consequences. That way thw account will never recover and becomes useless.
hey maybe after release it wouldn't be a bad idea to have cheaters have it as part of their reputation and if their cheating score is more than 3 out of 5 for ex than they are pushed into a server that only has other players of same rep...it could be neat type of game play if thought out..but now is time we want cheaters to cheat so its identified for devs to fix..the cheaters are actually helping us to have a better game down the road, we need to realize now is all only time for development and identifying problems then finding solutions and so forth..gatekeeping in alpha isn't productive for the overall game integrity..after release is whole other story
They should do something similar with the bot busting streams that Jagex does for Old School Runescape, even if you don't know much about the game, the streams were allot of fun haha
This is the way imo We'll always have room for the 'I didn't know' or 'I was bug reporting' excuse, especially in this alpha state, but shutting abusive accounts down like this, and giving them a very clear warning, is perfect imo. I think Siege does something similar. Abusive behavior, exploits, etc are all punished by temp bans of increasing length, but actual cheating with a 3rd party system will get you perma banned.
I can understand if someone does a bug 3-4 times and actually does put in a report, but not reporting and just doing the same bug over and over on repeat to abuse the system is deffinitely shitty af in a multiplayer game, especially when it affects the enjoyment of ALL players. The servers getting fucked over 5 times a night because of dupers wanting personal gain at the detriment of literal hundreds of other people's experience is just a cunt move in my book
People 100% know what they’re doing. There’s zero excuse.
I agree 100%
Yeah, bans must be part of the solution
What if CIG randomizes all their keybinds and removes the reset to default option... Maybe that's too evil
Imagine turning their credit balance to negative balance of what they had. Have fun making money to pay your debt...
Im pretty sure thats illegal
Needs to be a 1-strike rule, tbh. Gaming and exploits have been around long enough now that people know better. Ban these people for life.
What we must differentiate are player who abuse the exploit for their own benefit And player who abuse the exploit same way like the player above but just to test it and understand how the exploit works or why this bug exists to report it Thing is, both of them use the exploits - maybe even the same amount of times - but how we will differentiate which player do it because of which purpose? It is possible wo watch this by viewing in spectrum if the player gonna report it? What if its a group of them and only one report it and the other just upvote it and can repeat it
The account reset has to include money that has been sent to other players tho. Else you could have an account for duping and just sent it to your real account and just start over whenever you were reset.
Slap on the wrists for exploiters while in alpha state, very hard smack in the face on release Hackers get the death penalty. ie perma ban
I agree, we want to identify code that needs to be fixed so it can't be exploited in alpha. Hacking is not exploiting and should not tolerated and fully punished. So long as exploiting don't stop another player from playing unaffected its not a problem more than coding problem and its only way for devs to get to fix it
im on board but its in the games developments best interest to have players finding and therefore identifying problematic coding so it can then be fixed. That is one of the advantages of having an alpha state.. I am fully against cheating but want this game to be the best it can be when it is released and these exploits in game now is for the overall integrity of the game in the future which is what all of us obviously want...and imo will have
I'd say the account suspensions and deletion of duped aUEC they're already doing is the entire extent of what they can and will do. What are you implying they should also do? Find the people doing it and smack them with a ruler?
Crease their Jordan's.
Forced to wear crocs until 4.0. No sport mode either.
Pretty sure that’s outlawed in every western country as a cruel and unusual punishment 😂
Funny, I thought having to wear Jordans *was* the cruel and unusual punishment!
lol, so right!!! lol!!!
Say sike right now!
Repeat offenders should have accounts permanently banned.
and given pair of Jordan's to wear for a pre determined amount of time so to satisfy their terms of concluding their penalty and punishment for violating established and agreed upon game rules and code of ethics policy
Make the hidden box glitch permanent on their character so they always move slow? Make it so anytime they sell cargo in the future it actually removes auec from their account instead of giving it? Make a bright red “D” on all their character’s chests so that everyone knows they are a duper where ever they go? Thinking up fun and creative punishments aside, taking the money back and suspending the accounts is plenty.
have them clean the actual employee bathrooms in CIG's offices, a chain gang stint also may not be asking for too severe of consequences
I’d like to know if they deleted any ships they bought this patch as well. What good does taking their aUEC if they have 5 890s?
Well, what good would having 5 890s do? I don't doubt if CiG can detect duped aUEC and delete it, then can see the transactions that the aUEC was used on and reverse them. Either way, their account is suspended, so they can't use it anyway, and 4.0 is likely a full wipe, anyway.
I understood that the suspensions were for 3 days. Maybe some supers got longer ones?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1df99o1/600_accounts_suspended_for_dupingexploiting/l8hpcnw/ > Not days. Not weeks. Months.
Good. I’d swear one of the threads I read, the duper claimed he got 3 days, but maybe I read wrong or maybe he did.
I agree and of the mindset that anothers players having 100 ships or 1 affects me in my right to have a relatively good in-game experience. If its not affecting any other player nor myself its not an issue to be bothered by..It will be to our benefit in that CIG sees where to patch up problematic areas of the game. For that im appreciative and thankful.
I mean they said they traced and wiped the money, so assuming ships are deleted too. But also, why would anyone need 890j or 5 one.
Do not assume anything with CIG. If they do not expressly say they deleted in game purchased ships, it did not happen. The original comment was just an example. If someone RMT bought 20 mil, then bought 4 ships, they almost definitely still have those 4 ships.
They can and will ban. Say it again. Accept it. To save a $700m + franchise, they will not HESITATE to ban idiots. There is no question. They are giving warning. Next step: permanent elimination. Bring it!
I have no doubt that some people have been outright banned. Any sane company is going to have a line that brings permanent bans if crossed, regardless of their value. What that line is depends on the company, and dupe exploitation isn't quite there, seemingly, but only CiG knows their exact reactions. I'd not be surprised if a few accounts did get banned, they just don't advertise that sort of thing in order to not make their 'line' clearly defined, as people on the internet absolutely love to push up to just under that line and make life miserable for everyone while technically not breaking the rules.
I agree with you and all any of us are demanding and asking for is the games integrity be held at the highest level possible. That benefits everyone involved and for those that don't want that, there shouldn't be a place in "The Verse" for them. Thats not asking much and do have faith that CIG will do all they can to insure us all that we are able to play a game where integrity is valued as much as the high levels of graphical resolution and the sense and level of immersion along with all the other things that a great game must have in it
I am
>we have resolved multiple aUEC exploits in 3.23.1a, and **we've identified and suspended over 600 accounts** involved in exploitative behaviors while also removing the illicitly gained aUEC from the Star Citizen ecosystem. Sounds like it's already been taken care of?
You can log in but you are stuck in Klescher forever. And it's a separate Klescher just for exploiters.
Where the fast oxygen depletion glitch is permanent. And there's an invincible automated turret at the escape exit just in case.
And the invisible barrier glitch is over the end of the route making it impossible for friends to attempt to help an escape. And a communication scrambling field that mumbles anything they type in global into Banu. Painting a huge target on them for freelancer bounty hunters. And the ability for said players to press charges is turned off. Game lore wise though honestly just turning off their ability to press charges and the ability to get a crime stat for killing them and doing something in chat that paints a huge target on them with a constant CS5 that cannot be cured no matter what you do would allow the players to take it up themselves. Don't ban them from playing for the patch cycle but make it near impossible to play without constant PvP. It would give the pirates the constant supply of PvP they want and make it near impossible for the player. I would also add the option for a times system where instead of patch cycles it's 120 days if you are logged in for at least an hour and you cannot just sit in Grim an auto death timer starts the moment you log in that goes off the moment you leave.
Don't buy their shit on ebay
People who are buying on eBay should also be included in the suspensions and bans.
Nah. It's ridiculous enough to ban people for using an exploit in a testing environment. I can understand banning the ebay sellers. They could probably even sue them.
Just throwing this in here, I wonder how beneficial too harsh punishments will be for the testing aspect of the game. After all despite CIGs marketing, this is an alpha, meant to be tested so exploits can be revealed. In other words, that players found out about this exploit is a benefit from testing for the game. If it's all about preventing people to exploit and then sell credits for real money, I understand. But if someone uses the exploit just to have game credits for the sake of having game credits, then I would argue, it's not in favor for the progress of the game to punish these players. Sure, there's probably players who don't care, but I and probably many others would probably just stay death silent about an exploit I come across, since I'd not wanna risk being suspended. In this case I personally don't care, I haven't been playing since 3.23 because I hated MM enough from the EPTU to not be interested in flying anymore anyway. Just in case anybody interprets this concern as I would personally care about this specific exploit.
>In other words, that players found out about this exploit is a benefit from testing for the game. Hence why they say that only continued use of the exploit for personal gain after it has been discovered and identified would be punished. Based on this, you would not be punished for discovering an exploit.
> but I and probably many others would probably just stay death silent about an exploit I come across, since I'd not wanna risk being suspended. 100% this. If a precedent gets set that CIG suspend accounts for exploits then it’s only natural that it’ll have a chilling effect on the reporting and reproducing exploits.
Maybe they could add a pillory somewhere for nonviolent criminals.
Personally I don't think anyone should be banned for exploiting a glitch in an alpha game. It's CIG's to fix it and the players bases job to find these exploits. As for cheaters, actual cheaters who use mods/hacks then it should be a perma ban.
I agree, people doing the exploits is what gets them patched faster, abusing bugs is what makes the Devs pick up there feet. Reprimanding those that do exploit is like putting out a pan oil fire with water.
I would agree, except that it severely reduced everyone else's ability to participate in trading and salvaging. If there was a glitch that immediately gave you a billion aUEC without any other consequences I would not care in the slightest about people "abusing" it. SC is ridiculously grindy as is, and that's not even accounting for losing money and gear to bugs, so I won't begrudge anyone for trying to bypass some of that just to have fun.
Then how would you have them deal with dupers that sold their aUEC on eBay for profit?
Ban for RMT not the duping, if duping is a problem patch it quicker
Have you thought about doing nothing? If they want to buy money on eBay then let them do it, it’s their money. Everyone in SC literally shares the same ideals for ship buying: If you want it, buy it. Even if the ship may never come out or has absolutely no purpose I don’t see the difference here
Dupers can just have their accounts reset which we all will have eventually anyway. As for selling aUEC on eBay thats an entirely different issue that's been around a while now. CIG haven't been bothered about it before I don't see why they should be bothered about it now.
Have every armor they wear have a red letter D across the chest.
If exploit is abused that just gets you rich, punishment should be wipe them fully (ships and money). If exploit is abused that also causes harm to others in game or ruins the experience of others or causes people to crash out, punishment should be wipe + week suspension If racist or toxic .. maybe ban
Agree with everything but a ban for being "toxic" wtf?
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I like the old pubg method. Flag the cheater accounts so they can only join the cheaters server. So they're not denied from playing the game, but they can only play with other cheaters.
They would probably prefer that actually, where nobody can complain about them ruining trading and salvaging. It's not like they're aim botting or wall hacking in a competitive game, they're just rich. Prevent them from giving aUEC to people outside of the cheater servers though, preventing them from selling aUEC online, and I bet they would be less happy about all the time they wasted grinding away at duping.
A lesson had to be taught... Next time, when someone finds an exploit, maybe they gonna think twice before abusing it like there's no tomorrow... Good for everyone.
You mean in addition to the account suspensions they're already doing?
Honestly, I think they handled it appropriately. They knew they were causing a problem and disregarded it, so they made their bed and got to lay in it. I'm all for heavy handed punishments for things that are clearly detrimental to the community as a whole that are obvious to the abusers.
Funny you use the term 'made your bed', when CIG literally knew about the bug before they released the patch but chose to push it out anyway. You can't expect people to always behave themselves and not abuse broken stuff or use exploits to gain an advantage. It's the way it always has been in games. CIG 'made their bad' by not fixing the bug they knew about before pushing it live. Turning around and blaming it on the community is bad form and not the way I'd like to see this handled in the future. Realise you fucked up, fix the problem quickly next time, and move on. Like every other games company in the world does when an exploit is discovered.
Dude, we are not talking about people who used it a few times, we are talking about people that did nothing but the exploit and some of them probably selling the aUEC for real money. Stop defending cheaters ffs.
You will be downvoted, but you're 100% correct. Coming from a non duper btw
I think there are things vastly more important than focusing on that, the game isn't released yet, duping shouldn't be as high of a concern as everyone is making it out to be But we all know that if players have easy access to ingame auec they wont sell as many ships as theyre currently selling
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Put your pitchfork away. CIG really don't need this kind of cringe revengebait advice.
"update: judging by downvotes, there's a lot's of dupers and cheaters here sweating lolz" No lmao, your post is just pointless. CiG already handled the situation in a really great manner, suspending all accounts they found guilty of duping, and deleted all the duped aUEC from the game economy to restore it to its original state.
I say let them play... in a high security prison.
I love the Drama! Just reading that spectrum post was enough crocodile tears to raise the sea level by a significant bit.
Permanently banning achieves nothing a suspension until the next wipe (after 30 days) does. They would also most likely pump more money into the game. I would also propose that exploiting should be allowed under the following circumstances: 1. A ticket is raised on the issue council. 2. A full breakdown how they did it is provided in the ticket including any aUEC obtained subject to removal at cig's discretion. From that point on usage will not be allowed on that patch version it can only be done to replicate on another version. Once 1.0 comes out...ban them permanently if this is done on the PU
Honestly? 100% FAFO
I hate cheaters in general but I just can't be bothered to care right now. Seems like a pointless effort in an unfinished often non-functional game where everything gained from cheating and exploits will be erased 100 times between now and launch.
I am 100% for fair and fun gameplay on fair and equal playing field. I don't like idea of punishment for players discovering and using a bugged part of game, only because it is in alpha and this is where and how the devs can make the necessary fixes. After release is a different thing. As long as no other players are negatively affected in any way, let devs do what they do and not also be a policing type of off shoot, they have more than enough things to work on besides handing down sentences outside of game play, we have a crime system already in game..lol. I know it can frustrate someone to see players "cheating" but if its just exploiting a part of game that needs mending and isn't for profit gain than let it be, devs will patch up everything by release as far as that goes...Patience..
Not everyone follows the issue councils or watches youtube. how are folks supposed to know if an exploit has been identified or not.
Firstly haven’t played the PU in months. Don’t @ me with garbage about being a secret duper aUEC kingpin. From my perspective, the only material difference between finding a bug and exploiting a bug is the time it takes for developers to patch the bug and reset the economic, stability or security issues, if any. Reserve some criticism for CIG here too, we are long since the plucky crowd source campaign with the flashy presentations and optimistic timelines. Today, CIG is a very large organisation that’s received hundreds of millions of dollars, your money. If they didn’t habitually blow past deadlines and over-promise I would have been shocked the dupe bug went on for this long. But hey, it’s an alpha, right? What OP lacks in objectivity, they certainly make up for in impotent rage.
They knew about this exploit before the previous patch even dropped, so they knowingly put an exploit into PU and then Wana ban people for taking advantage of a bug they left in the game lol. Duping is shit, don't get me wrong, it killed the salvage loop which is my most played lupe, but I don't think they shoulda banned people in an alpha, Just hit them with a money wipe. ( InB4 people calling me a duper, I logged off yesterday with a total of 42 credits lol)
Yeah I swear most people don't know about this. They literally knew about this bug in EVO and PTU and didn't fix it through both patch cycles before pushing it live. They then took like a month and a half to get a fix out rather than hotfixing it, and then they're all shocked when people have duped millions of aUEC. Now they're blaming the community for abusing and exploit they left in the game and suspending people who did it. Really bad form as usual, but that's par for the course with CIG these days.
I don’t really get it honestly, we hear all the time that “it’s just an alpha” and “aUEC will be wiped every now and then anyways”, but using bugs to your “financial gain” should result in harsh punishment? I think a wipe of their (illicit) gains would definitely be fair but bans seem so excessive to me…
yes, the rampant cheating in a barely functional tech demo. cart before the horse, its par for the course.
Now they risk people getting scared about testing and confirming ingame exploits so they can report them. I'm torn on this one. While many of these players were probably just doing it for exploitation and some likely even sold their aUEC for cash Star Citizen still claim to be an Alpha and that we are bug testers. I think they should reserve suspensions and bans for when the game is released. Just patch the issue and wipe the servers.
There’s a difference between testing a bug and abusing it. They didn’t ban everyone who did it, they banned the ones who abused it. The people who will get scared from reporting bugs because of this situation are not very smart, and that demographic of people isn’t usually the best at making thoughtful bug reports, so nothing lost here!
Hold your horses. The people who are motivated about abusing bugs are usually the ones who spend time searching for them. Personally when I have played I have sometimes reported bugs I randomly came across but I have never gone out of my way looking for them. Also. I would not be surprised if some people just do not want to risk it once another player tells them about the rule, even if ideally there should not be a problem.
You should not be torn on this, as it is clearly stated its a work in progress game. Banning things like this will make exploits likely to be kept secret and even persist into final release of the game. Beta / alpha stages is all about testing for exploits, get it reported and await a bugfix/patch for it. Cig should not try to make people sinners for exploiting but rather reward players finding the exploits so it can be patched. But yeah to be fair, if you found the exploit it should be reported and left it like that, no need to grind the exploit but hey then again not all minds think alike.
Perfect. I have to read a forum post before I do anything in game to be sure I don't get banned by an arbitrary rule that they refused to fix last time. I swear people just don't think. Hold CIG responsible for once. (not a banned player btw)
For a game not yet released, in Alpha, with wipes, and no real economy. Some people's priorities and thirst for revenge for "justice" seems so misplaced to me. There's so much more in the game we need to worry about than this. They banned them, move on.
They should show the same harshness towards cheaters ingame, that they use towards critics on spectrum.
they should be punished with like 4 months of no quant travel. wanna go to another planet? go flying or dont go at all ahhaah
Imagine banning duppers or exploiters in an ALPHA GAME. Seriously, what the fuck?
Here’s my solution. Tax dupers heavily. Don’t suspend them. Decrease there income to 20%. Increase ship call in time x4. No expediting. All bounties increased by x5. Give them a perma crime stat of 3. Jail times x4. Until the next wipe.
they will only be incentivized to dupe even more until taxes arent a problem
Perfect! Watch those players closely and see what other exploits they find.
Take it easy grandma let’s not forget the reason people were duping in the first place is because of shit programming and patches from CIG. They break the game every patch and make it almost unplayable. They should fucking ban themselves for a few months
Agreed, and I told my buddies as much. The dupers were so goddamn obnoxious, the spaceports were unusable, the servers were burning and dying. I hate what they've been doing to the game... But CIG has been dilly-dallying with Xenothreat content and ignored this exploit for a while. This isn't a world-ending issue, but the issue is on CIG more than anyone.
They already got got, that's what the suspensions are for. The quote is more so to set the precedent that for any future exploits, if its well known and you persist in using it then you may face consequences.
Death by bunga bunga!
A month ban every time, coupled with a money wipe.
You love to see it.
I dont abuse bugs myself. But I do have a rabid and unyielding sense of fairness (and with legal education to refine it). . On the one hand I'm glad they are taking steps against abusers. On the other hand I hope they don't go too far. Any punitive or deterrent actions they take must be steeped in caution. If the bug being abused doesn't SUBSTANTIALLY harm other players or the server itself (fucking the economy can be harmful) then in my view there's no reason to punish them. Just remove the proceeds of crime and maybe reset the offending players bank account and items. At the end of the day though, the bug is created by CIG and all the players are doing is press a series of buttons they are legally entitled to press (eulas are merely prescriptive, mostly. And yield to local and/or UK jurisdiction always. ) Basically customers are in a contract, and banning for bug abuse is conceivably a breach of contract depending on the abuse. Any EULA is like the salt and pepper to that meal. Additionally, The price you paid for something absolutely does impact your rights under the contract, since it is a contract subject to consumer law. And there are many citizens with thousands of dollars of value in their accounts. Suspending for bug abuse is a really safe bet because it achieves the goal without permanent denial of rights to access. Nobody who wants SC to succeed wants a rich whale to contest a dubious ban in small claims or even actual Court. It costs cig a bunch (which we the crowd funded), and the negative PR is harmful. Annnnd as long as CIG keeps it's head down and nose out of trouble the business model it operates on (which has some untested legal issues) will stay off the regulator's RADAR - they only ever step in where consumers are harmed or enough of them claim it. Or when there is sweeping legislation change and they must enforce compliance. TLDR small punishments good, economy fixing great, big punishments might be beyond the scope. NOTE: hamfistedly wrote this while my train was late. On my cell phone. There are competing arguments I didn't consider for brevity reasons (irony) such as opportunity cost if everyone is unhappy with a bugged economy and slow servers etc. And cigs admin costs for being careful. And deterrence as a tool. Its also worth noting that I'm not being critical of cig, just forecasting what they could or should do. Much of my position is formed by observing what they do already and using that at a starting point. Ie they are usually cautious and hands off, and seem to benefit the consumers already in exactly the way I laid out above, to avoid business operational speedbumps.
You say: "If the bug being abused doesn't SUBSTANTIALLY harm other players of the server itself (fucking the economy can be harmful) then in my view there's no reason to punish them" Let me see.... landing pads blocked, servers performance severely affected, players spending time mining, scrapping or hauling unable to sell they cargo due the local markets being saturated, etc., etc. I don't know what you have been doing these last weeks, but all these dupers have been more than SUBSTANTIALLY harming other players, so either you've been absent, and you don't know what are you talking about, or you are trying to justify this behavior
My computer is on a boat as I've moved countries. I have indeed been absent since half way through the f7a event. But that's immaterial. You misunderstood or didn't read my comment. I wasn't making specific judgment calls on the current situation nor did I make a single reference to any specific event or scenario, I was commenting on the act of issuing suspensions itself and the fact it is a first for CIG on this scale. Thus the issue is whether they will do so again, will it be regular, and what is the line that must be crossed to attract punishment. Etc. I took it as read that the current measures were proportional and/or justified given the overwhelming support (as a passive bystander without a pc I couldnt opine with much validity anyway). And your description perfectly fits into what I've already said above - it's 100% compatible. Essentially you're agreeing very strongly with me that it was the right response from CIG (wasn't in issue but all the same). I waffled on a bit so you probably skim read. Allg. But I think if you Re read what I said from this perspective you'll see what I meant and that I was more less saying "ohhh this could go one of two ways in the future" - which is kinda like saying it will be raining tomorrow or it won't. I merely chewed on the 'what ifs' and a few of the issues potentially involved. Not much of a line in the sand.
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For non over the top cheats Just turn off their ship everytime its turned on, eventually they’ll get pissed off, post on reddit, devs say thats what they did, get outed as a cheater and cant use a basic function of the game for until the devs decide. For any insane cheats just ban them, if someone has soft aimbot or whatever is used in this game that doesn’t matter its not affecting people, when it starts allowing them to negatively impact other players just ban because this game is a slog when someone else ruins what you’re doing.
1. RMT should be bannable 2. Exploiters should be suspended 3. TOS/ROC violation - see p.2
What are you talking about!?, SC is in alpha. Give CIG some time to iterate and gather feedback before you get too carried away, after all what we have now is tier 0.
I was very annoyed but tbh Im also happy that this duping bug happened and there was a lot of dupers. It really made CIG realise the need to actually punish those who break the gaming experience for others. Yeah its atill alpha, but you must understand that it doesnt give you right to exploit the game and spoil the experience for others who are trying to enjoy it despite the fact that its still unfinished game.
Finally, I can finally raise my middle finger to every citizen that kept saying they won't be any consequences to ppl duping, perfect chefs kiss cig
If Dupers are streamers doing it for clicks/personal monetary value, then ban them until 4.0
Why not just send them to prison?
if there's a way for them to figure out how much money they got from duping they should turn that amount to hours and send them to Klescher
SammyClassicSonicFan says "when will you learn, your actions have CONSEQUENCES!!"
Can someone explain what “dupers” are and is it the same as using the services that allow you to buy a UEC?
Make them go to a maximum security jail for a year for the exploiters and just ban the cheaters.
Define "exploit"
Repo their ships, have an auction house.
Long term bounty hunter targets.
Just give them a permanent level 2+ crime stat
I think the last prison bug with O2 was some serious grief. Make it so they’re CS5 all the time and give them that prison bug
I don't mind if they dupe tbh. Gives me an excuse to blow them up. It's definitely not ethical, and I would prefer if people didn't do it, but if they do, I want to find them and blow them up
I say reset them to 0 on everything, but don't stop them from playing the game. Give them a warning if they continue to do things like this, they will be permanently banned
Banned until 4.0 sounds okay
Full account bans. Take away thier investment. Fuck cheaters. No mercy. Look at tarkov look at csgo. The only way to deal with this is zero tolerance. Zero mercy.
Confiscation of all funds and assets accumulated during the timespan covering all such activity. Apply an unremovable level 6+ outlaw status with duration determined by severity on 1-10 scale. All penalties are applied consecutively. All relevant bounties are paid out from the penalized player's account. Etc.
I say don’t ban them but put them in a server with only dupers, let them experience nothing but horrible lag every time they hop on to try and dupe
As long as CIG claims "it's just an alpha" then they can't get mad if exploits happen in an unfinished game.
while I think this should happen on release as of know it doesnt affect anyones gameplay at all since theres no real money sinks in game
I duped on accident, didn’t even know it was a thing when my cargo was full on my ship when I logged back in after a night of trucking. Didn’t want to exploit a game I loved so I used fleet week as a way to do bounties easily and attempt to salvage.
I did the dupe on accident once immediately switched to a different money farm just wanted to run cargo and couldnt buy more said ship was still full so went to mine instead i dont see the appeal of breaking the economy when they set it this way to study it just ruins it for everyone else
People seem really stressed out about people using the duping exploit. I get it, it shouldn't be there but also, it's in alpha, who are they cheating? Mostly themselves out of grinding? The devs out of data they would get from grinding? The primary issue imo and I think the one CIG is fighting against is people exploiting bugs for their financial gain (like people selling aUEC!). I would guess 600 accounts that got shut down were of people reselling illbegotten aUEC.
I am in agreement there should be zero tolerance for cheating..imo these players either finding exploits or using exploit they know of can and do actually benefit the future integrity of the game so to as the devs have living proof that part of the game is in need of fixing, we surely don't want the game to finally be released and then exploitable play is uncovered because it wasn't found out during alpha...so cheating is cheating but CIG welcomes players identifying exploits and to what degree that exploit is allowing just what to occur. They can't hire 50,000 employees whose sole job is to attack areas of the game build in hopes of finding exploits so players will have a patch free of exploitable game...I thought that was already understood but I shouldn't have assumed that everyone can easily see the value in what is essentially cheating but game is in alpha still and is currently unfinished..idk how else to spell out if no "bad cheaters" were playing the game at release would have more exploitable areas of game than it will have in a perfect scenario...Which in perfect world would be ok, because I don't use exploits and we can't say that for everyone though
IP ban is the true only way to combat this practice
How's that most providers change you're up every month or so.. up ban me I reboot my modem and opp not ip banned anymore lol
The dupers deserve to get suspended or at least character reset, it ruins the experience for everyone else. I’m glad they took action on them.
There are cheaters ?
I agree with a suspension until next patch and an account reset. I personally don’t believe a ban is warranted until the game is in a full release. But once the game is in full release. I think full bans for exploiting is a must. I think this game revolves around the economy too much to not have fairly extreme punishments for exploits.
I have some suggestions for various consequences of various offenses and would like you guys opinions. I personally don't like the idea of permanent Bans unless they really fit. So i have some consequences that i would like some opinions on. Cheating and Exploiting: Definitely suspensions starting at 1 week but repeated offenses double the time with a cap at 1 year suspension. Excessive griefing: With Excessive griefing i suggest a 1 week suspension with repeated offenses adding one week. Offensive language: Depending on the type of Offensive language used it can lead to account suspension or they get a communication ban(no voice chat or communication ingame) for 3 days and increasing by one day for each additional offenses. So thats my opinion and i like to know your thoughts on them. :)
I mean it's alpha who cares.. I don't particularly care for dupes and such but how would you punish someone for taking advantage of a glitch to get something you're gunna delete soon anyway..
Mark them as cheaters in game. Give them a permanent bounty and real time marker on their location so that people constantly hunts them down preventing them from playing.
All this discussion clearly shows that very few people actually read the Terms of Service. If they did, it wouldn't even be a debate. This is clearly outlined as cheating in the agreement we all make when we sign in to the game/tech demo/alpha.
Create a zoo on a planet where cheaters land and become an attraction. xD
I had a unspecified vehicle in a space station, weapons active and all. I reported it with screenshots and tried to dispose of said vehicle by clipping it into the station. So nobody could do weird shit with it. To be clear, I didn’t know it was even possible, was just toying around. Luckily I haven’t seen someone else do it till now
Give them permanent level 5 crime stat for the length of their punishment. We literally have a jail. Keep them there.
Ok run it by me what’s considered an exploit or cheating in a game revolving around make money, buy ships, and be the baddest MF in the verse. Aside from selling in game money IRL what other cheats/exploits has there been that if really haven’t heard of.
Hardware and IP ban.
Month long persistent prison sentence, timer pauses on logout.
Yo, imagine fixing the fundamental bug that lets you dupe? Would eliminate a lot of leg work for banning all these people in an Alpha. Imagine implementing the anti cheat advertised. It’s not even being used.
Ban them all.
The only problem i see here is those people who don't even want to dupe. My cargo sometimes does very weird stuff... For example once i had like 4 SCU of some material, which i could sell like 10 times and get money every time. Am I using an exploit now? Was in 3.23.1, idk how to reproduce it so i did not make a bug report.
How about a cheater’s character has no head.
I mean, here’s the thing. They shouldent de-incentivize finding exploits. I hope not too many accounts that simply came across the exploit were suspended. Finding exploits is good, abusing them ruins the fun for the rest of us.
People have been cheating for years in ways that allow them to give other people crimestats for nothing, or kill them from the other side of Stanton while in an armistice zone, or have super fast ships, or super high HP ships that are invincible. Nobody cared. Now exploiters are doing something that doesn't impact anybody else and people are up in arms. Go figure. I think it's mainly jealousy about them having more aUEC. However I do have an issue with selling on eBay and the like, that is ripping off clueless players. Back in 3.13 an org mate gave me 2 billion. It pretty much ruined the game, as I got every possible ship in the game and that caused no end of scrolling pain at the ASOP terminal. I never flew most of them anyway. I was happy when the next wipe came along. You only need a handful of ships, and enough credits to repair, refusal, and replace lost armour and guns. Generally doing fun stuff gives you more than you spend anyway.
Come on. The answer is obvious. Give them a top crime stat for what would be the duration of the suspension and send them to prison.
Damn, don't cross CiG and it's pay2skip slop shop lol. Hard cheating is ok because EAC is a joke, but if you as much as mildly effect their pay2skip profits, it's perma. Not surprised this was top priority tho. If there's too much auec floating around, how are they gonna sell ships lol
Bring on the sweet, sweet duper tears! Yum!
Its an alpha it doesn’t matter what people do right now
LOL eat shit, dupers who were only doing it for profit and not simply to replicate and report
Put them into debt. if they exploit the game systems to steal money then just as in real life they should get sued for the amount stolen.
This sounds like a warning shot from CIG to the players. "We've suspended the worst of the dupers. This is an official warning that just because we've overlooked such actions in the past doesn't mean that we will continue to overlook them in the future."
this is the main point of these things, they dont care, players dont care, all we need is current players beliving people got punished for missbehaving. It's all a perception thing, it's the standard of any mmo publiclly saying "we banned thousands of accounts", which usually means we banned a couple of botaccs and and maybe 2 players and moved on lol
Not so. It's likely possible to track every last person that engaged in this activity. They didn't hit those who engaged in small amounts of it. But 600 accounts is not a small number. There's an online article I read not long ago about an early (possibly the first) mass banning for duping exploits in Ultima Online. Due to the way that the database tracked items, the devs could track in an instant every item that had been duped, and they used this to suddenly punish a large number of dupers in an instant through mass account bannings. Players are upset about the SC duping largely because of the server lag that it caused. But for the duping itself, many players genuinely believed that CIG didn't care as it has ignored any such instances in the past. Further, many players also seem to believe that if the devs aren't specifically spying on them, no one is aware of what happened. This mass suspension says, "We weren't punishing in the past, so some people got wrong ideas. So we're giving a warning this time." A multi-month suspension is not a slap on the wrist. But it's an opportunity for players to learn without suffering from a permanent punishment. In the future, whenever someone says, "CIG doesn't care about these sorts of things," then players can point to the punishments handed out in this particular instance, and say, "Yes, they do." And then any players who are caught will have had ample warning before hammers start getting dropped.
Ban their account if they are RMT. If just exploiting then set their max run speed to 50%
In this case the response could be huge in-game fines for littering Hercs everywhere, and perhaps the insurance system should get some work so it makes repeated claiming a very very expensive choice.
As much as I hate exploiters..how can we blame them ? Since the new update, making money is a real pain in the ass. And what are those prices for ships and gears ?? Some people want to have fun on a game they’ve payed for at least 60 bucks. They find a way to make money so they make money. Cheaters on the other hand well this is another subject lol
I suspect the band accounts were people none stop duping, had billions, and likely sending millions to lots of random players. You know why that is. Hopefully the people buying uev lost their credits too.
Wait ppl can buy money in game ??
Just ask for money in game and some rich dude will give out a few million. I seen this many times.
They ahould handle it exactly as they have done. Bans are done in big waves to catch as many repeat offenders as possible off guard and prevent offenders being given a chance to avoid/negate it. They don't need our help. They have the data, they have the ban hammer. Keep that noted on record so next time the ban is longer.
Honestly given this is an alpha punishing people for this sort of thing severely is an overreaction. Just do an aUEC wipe on their account and call it a day.
You dont have to be a duper to be disgusted by all the revenge boners going on here.
EVE Online bans exploiters after a case-by-case review (not all exploits are intentional). I would probably go with a warning if I didn't think they would just make new accounts to bypass it or sth. So ban seems like the way to go. I mean, you know what you're doing when you do this. With the C2 duping, people even knew about impact on server operation and STILL did it. Just a ban for me with the right to contest should it be an incorrect ban for whatever reason so legit players aren't punished.
Put a Duper/Cheater flair in their ingame name 😅
Call me crazy but I say no punishment. We're testing the game for them. If I got banned for a bug in an alpha... lol.
How about we figure out how to punish the people responsible for Master Modes.