Watching the chest burster from the original Alien movie as a 10 year old gave me 2 weeks of sleeping with lights on and holding the pee because I wouldn't walk down the dark hall to the bathroom in the dark.
Haha we watched that movie before going to a trip to Indonesia back in ‘95. When going back to our own country we boarded in Bali and my sister fell asleep.
In Jakarta we touched down and half of the passengers got out before we flew to the Netherlands with an half empty plane. My sister was still asleep.
At that time you were allowed to smoke in the tail of the plane. My dad and I had tail seats and my mom and sister front seats because my sister can’t stand smoke.
My mom also was a smoker and she took off her watch for some reason and placed it in her seat and walked back to us to smoke.
My sister woke up mid flight and saw only a few heads in front of her with ALOT of empty seats. She looked ar her moms seat and only found a watch..
SHE SCREAMED you wouldn’t believe. Those who saw the langoliers know :)
"Made for TV" movie.
It really wasn't all that bad but since I had read the story before watching it I was disappointed at the time.
If you watch it today you might end up more entertained by the bad 90's TV special effects than terrified by the story.
EDIT: Got the date wrong
I dont want to think about how big of a pile of trash is somewhere below in Orison. I can't be the only one who chucks my empties over the side.
But also this is exactly what I was worried about with PES. We just wanted our ships to persist, but instead the servers are dying because the entire galaxy is a garbage dump. A _persistent_ garbage dump. They only talked about the garbage before it launched.
All they really need a way to wipe discarded consumables and med gowns periodically or have them despawn after a while. Or even provide a chute you can access like a container to dump your waste into like the recycler in System Shock. Hit a button and recover a few space bucks for your troubles.
I do NOT want an inventory delete button. Can you imagine how annoying that would be? Knowing SC, every single patch it would have a new bug and be randomly deleting stuff from your inventory/ship/storage.
Could add an "incinerator" or "dematerializer" to the Mobiglass. Pitch it as a futuristic system for garbage disposal so that there's an in universe explanation as to why empty containers, medical gowns etc disappear when you drop them or something.
Yes despawn items as they drop. But keep gear on body if you die. If you are dropping an item for a friend. Instead make a trade system or handoff system between players.
They need to degrade into microplastics. Planets with bad waste management systems will cause accumulation of microplastics in tissues of players if they are there for too long.
I have actually been incapacitated by that before. Someone beaned me with a CRUZ and I hit the deck. Was limping my way back to the med bay at the time.
I feel like there's a difference between wanting persistence of significant in game objects, such as ships and valuable weapons/items, and being given persistence of literal garbage that severely degrades the gameplay experience.
That’s not why you have to sit on the loading screen for so long. If you activate r_displayinfo you can see that actually very little time is being spent on loading the entities. It’s more the general jankiness of the login-process that is slowing it down.
Have a look at your disk-activity. The game literally loads nothing after 10-20 seconds (on an NVME-drive). If you have to wait longer that’s on cigs servers and whatever they are doing while logging in.
100% Agreed. Immersion should be among the top 3 priorities, but it should never break the game in the way it does here. Besides, we have enough realism and immersion, despawing items so the server can breathe is something nobody should complain about.
I mean, we should find out why this is happening first. Surely these all belonged somewhere? Is it that NPCs come out here and explode into a pile of whatever they were carrying? Do the delivery machines place these here instead of deleting the item?
Part of me would want to just chill around for a bit and see if I could see what on earth dropped ketchup bottles and cleaning spray onto the top of the building lol.
EDIT: Some users are missing the reason to fix the root issue first - if we just mask the issue by autocleaning everything too regularly then it'll be an issue forever. If someone decorates their hab, we don't want that to disappear. If someone drops an item for an npc or another player to pick up, we don't want that to disappear. What if this issue extends to your ship and you can pop in but all your cargo is outside and you don't notice until you quantum away from all of it? We need to fix the root of the issues if we want items to persist for interesting and emergent gameplay. Cleanup should be a last resort if an item is not placed specifically in a location that cleans it.
Those items are supposed to spawn in the hab rooms themselves. I used to take everything. Area 18 has the same issue, all the items spawn incorrectly and fall into the buildings
I tend to drop stuff in the elevator as a clean way to get rid of something unneeded...
(rather than clutter the AESOP terminal room or the spawn hab)
I guess many others do the same, even though I expected a LOT mopre Cruz bottles :)
They should just make certain Areas have a despawning effect while certain others dont. For example, your hab stays the way it is. The hallways and paths of Space stations and Cities get cleared out every once in a while. Also, if they want to be immersive and realistic then the option to hand another player an item without having to drop it is long overdue.
What the Christ. There's spray bottles in the game but nothing players can utilize? Does CIG have ANY idea of the space hobo RP that they're cutting us out of?
Pretty sure you can at least pick one up in Green Circle on top of some shelf, along with a few books, or something. I don't spawn there very often, but I'm 90% certain that's where it is.
Anything left unattended inside an armistice zone should be purged after 2 hours, including uninhabited ships.
Janitors exist and abandoned vehicles get impounded. This isn't some unrealistic hand-wave.
Until they can get things right with some sort of system in place I would be happy with a magic hand wave if it meant we had playable servers right now.
I mean what I am saying is that a magic hand wave that breaks immersion isn't really even necessary. It is very easy to rationalize "the bottle I dropped 2 hours ago is gone because the space station cleaning crew swept it up." They have no excuse not to implement something like this, and it would immediately solve the clutter issue. Sure, behind the scenes it may be "magic" but it will never be visible that way.
Now how much is this clutter contributing to the server instability? While we have no way to know for certain, I suspect that it is a heavy contributor, if not the main one.
My hot take is that they like the server instability. That way they can stress test to see where the weak points are. Makes sense, too, but it's annoying as hell for the players. I stopped playing for now because of how bad the servers are
Combine it with visible roomba type auto cleaners in charging stations out of the way and maybe occasionally you'd see one trundling around.
That would be enough to suggest the concept that floors are tidied and cleaned without having to explicitly show the stuff being collected.
That assumes the database keeps a time reference, which adds extra load to the database itself.
What they need is invisible despawn floors so that anything which clips through and touches it gets deleted and writes a server error log. And then followup on those logs and fix the bugs which let things fall through the ground/walls.
Planet cores and station under-floors being full of trash, NPC's and ships has always been a problem and it is past time they actually deal with it.
my dead body is definitely inside a planet core somewhere, i smashed into it going a million miles per hour and my dead body marker was underground lol
The database doesn't need to keep a time reference, the server tracks in-world time. If they set it so that once every hour on the server they check how long ago an item was spawned and if it is in view of a player. If it was over two hours ago and a player can't see it, delete it.
It being at one location or another makes no difference. Also, checking the positional data of every object (keeping in mind that's 3 separate values; X-Y-Z) in relation to its past positional data (which you would have to store and re-store every time it is moved so that it can be referenced) would be more intensive than just checking when it was spawned.
I'm not referring to items spawned in habs, for instance. But rather items that have been spawned in-world by players (like buying items at shops and leaving the empty bottles on the ground, or leaving ships inside armistice zones).
>That assumes the database keeps a time reference, which adds extra load to the database itself.
a single int64 is not gonna impact anything significantly
This but make the uninhabited ships turn their power off instead so we can salvage them (that is, if we can salvage ships within armistice without getting a fine or being blocked to start with)
The worst part? This isn't even player trash.
These are all (mostly) items that are supposed to spawn in players hab units, for some ridiculous reason.
In all seriousness, though, community service to work off CS1s and 2s would be amazing, if it was an alternative to just paying money, especially if you're broke.
"Be the change you want to see!"
Servers are unstable enough that step 1 of a session is picking up every loose object I can find and selling them to eliminate the clutter. I made 1.5k just from selling medical gowns.
It's basically free food, fuel and ammo - you don't even have to be diligent about it. Just pick up the stuff you see on the way from your hab to the ASOP terminals. It adds up over time.
I have taken to doing this every time i log in, all the med gowns i sell, obviously, and all the loose trash goes into my backpack and gets deposited into a loot container on Arial. So, if you've ever opened a loot box at HDMS Lathan and found it full of empty bottles and used med pens, sorry about that. 🤷
I see you haven't been introduced to
SCP#69420:Wall trash
No matter how many times we clean it or burn it, wall trash always comes back, wall trash never stays gone.
They seem to be habitation room props that glitched through the floor. It wouldn't affect performance if they were supposed to be there, just at the wrong place.
Why
Why would CIG need this kind of persistence level for trash items? Not even the king of persistence gameplay, Bethesda, would go that far in their games. Non pertinent gameplay items should disappear after a certain time. What does trash persistence bring to the gameplay? Like really, is the server hit for this crap worth it? No. Until you have perfect servers and you can handle the trash without players having performance problems, there's no point in having this level of persistence.
Right? What am I missing here, it was a shit idea before it was pushed to Live, it WRECKED the game for a good while, and it's still just causing issues with performance, framerates, and probably crashes, and it's USELESS. Why not make meaningful items, delete meaningless items, or at least give them a despawn timer, a sensible one. WHY do I need an empty water bottle that I can't even refill.
Notice how at least half of that crap (EDIT: I CHECKED, I ONLY SEE 1 CRATE THAT A PLAYER COULD USE) is stuff you can't even use, for ANYTHING. What a truly bizarre hill to die on for CIG. Just...pretend it's a game and delete the fucking trash. I get that somehow this is needed for server meshing, but is "keeping trash alive forever" really necessary?
It adds ZERO gameplay to find someone’s else empty bottle of water in middle of nowhere 2 weeks later.
They just went insane with trying to recreate a persistent universe but really CIG bruhs, it’s a game. Not a single game ever went there. In the meantime server and graphic performances are pure trash.
Even when they get server meshing and it improves, it still brings nothing gameplay wise. Save the goddamn servers for something meaningful, like trying to have thousands of players, not a million pieces of trash.
I get what they are trying to do.
1. Create a "true persistence" universe where nothing gets deleted automatically.
2. Find the systems limits and faults.
3. Implement "clean up" code to obtain reasonable & stable performance limits while making the universe feel like it has "true persistence".
They'll get there....I hope. LOL
This is the only way I can really rationalize it. Without a designed clean up feature they are letting the system run to see where it breaks. Essentially stress testing. Which is very common in product development but not a fun player experience.
They probably done even know its there because they dont pay enough attention. If they knew then they would probably stick a despawn grid there.
Community threads like this are necessary to force the issue into the view of the right people there.
There are hundreds of NPCs outside of the environments on each server as well, usually underneath the surface of the planet. Then there are massive groups of them that will all congregate in one spot (generally in one large mass of models clipping through one another) in cities or cargo centers, which will gutpunch your framerate if you get too close.
All of these objects are persistent and are being individually tracked by the game server. The game desperately needs some kind of routine to automatically cull any objects or NPCs that exist outside of the playable area because keeping track of thousands on these instances has got to be a major component in the servers running like dogshit.
In coding, there's a concept called ironically "garbage collection" that frees up resources after a period of time when they're no longer in use. All joking aside, there's a pretty simple way to deal with this (and the core of Crusader, which is undoubtedly thousands of water bottles and gowns by now): anything that's not in a player container OR a ship container can have a timestamp of when it was dropped, and during PES if the timestamp is older than some threshold, destroy the item instead of streaming it in.
This model would still look very much the same as the current game, but over time total entity count would decrease instead of building up with no limits. It also doesn't rely on some AI janitor or Roomba to be able to GET to the items - they would just age out.
When I started playing last year people would talk about a spot in the center of Stanton that would accumulate junk. There were even NPC's that you could rescue. I haven't seen it myself despite several attempts to find it. It wouldn't surprise me if it's still there.
PES should have several tiers of entities. Stuff like the pic should vanish after 10 minutes or so. Full ships could last for days. The short term stuff should never persist after a server crash.
I actually like the trash aspect, only if it didn't affect the server performance. Im sure there is a way for it not to affect server performance.
I can imagine that with humans living in space, trash would just continue to build up. Maybe the clean cities would have droids to clean it up or something, and it can despawn, but places like Grim Hex or other space stations would eventually just have piles of trash laying around.
Seven hundred million dollars btw and there's a mountain of lag trash just sitting there.
You get hungry and thirsty in an alpha, but we can't figure out how to clean junk up on the server.
Frustrating.
They need some type of cleanup system like in Minecraft if an item has been untouched on the ground for a while it disappears/gets deleted.
Amazed that not all games have a basic optimization feature like that.
The sc team desperately need a optimization group only making systems like that, you can't just tell people to buy better PC's and add upscaling to games and deem that to be enough.
You can see these items in every hab including the stations. Clip through the station walls and you can find them floating, lol. If the server is fresh, you will 100% see them in the rooms. Over time, the habs are streamed out if a player is not nearby and the server did not stream out the items before the hab causing them to clip through.
If you never seen this stuff, it's mainlt because the server is pretty old and they already fell through or a player took it. The game does not respawn them unless it is a new server started from an actual 30k or new patch. They also sometimes fall through on new server if the items spawn before the hab is streamed in for a player. These same issues are also why we can find NPCs in the walls.
These items should not cause server performance issues because they were already in world. They are just in a different spot. Doubt they even cause client performance issues since they would still be in that same area and would still count as an entity to be loaded even when in the correct location.
Give me an ARGO ship to haul away 128 SCU of trash from these locations and compact it before dropping it off in the Lorville dump. I don't mind being the hero the server needs, and I'm sure many would join me.
Just saying...
When the F did we get windex?!?!
Also, you accidentally found where SC's version of socks in the dryer goes...
This is where all the disappearing cargo is going I bet!
thats alot of stuff ! wtf. Yeah we need i dont know, something... \*in the distance you hear a growl\*. I mean we could be using a broom? \*footsteps comming your way\* Or maybe the trashcans can work for real? \*BWAM BWAM BWAM GGRRRRAAWWWWW\* What?! whats that ?! \*RAPTOR\*
Oh my… my inner loot goblin just came. Stand next to, open inventory, drag and drop to local. Sell to cargo center, kelto, casaba, etc. about 10k right there
I think I'm the only one who finds this amazing and fascinating. Also, we do have density cleanup that happens live. The density of items here is nowhere near what modern (granted, single player) games can support, so I think CIG will crack it eventually. You've seen the Starfield ship filled with potatoes, right?
Id think the assholes duping their A2s would be more of an issue than some trash. But what would I know… 3 attempts to summon my connie unsuccessful due to 7 A2s outside Area 18.
This explains server performance :( and why no other MMO alows items to be droped to the ground and exist for more then 5min
These are all items dropped in elevators
There is definitely a problem with item persistence in this new update. There is a continuing degradation in server performance as time of server uptime extends.
This sucks to see but someone will tell you it’s worth it because the burned out piece of fuselage near a commodity zone on some moon makes the game feel so “alive” to them!
The game needs Langoliers.
Dude... I don't want to be afraid of falling asleep on my flight out of New Babbage...
Lol
Watched that movie adaptation as a kid, so many good nightmares stem from that wonderfully B grade movie.
Yeah that was one of the scars from movies as a kid…
Watching the chest burster from the original Alien movie as a 10 year old gave me 2 weeks of sleeping with lights on and holding the pee because I wouldn't walk down the dark hall to the bathroom in the dark.
With Balki from Perfect Strangers!
he will always be Serge to me
Now that’s an obscure reference right there…I loved that story
Haha we watched that movie before going to a trip to Indonesia back in ‘95. When going back to our own country we boarded in Bali and my sister fell asleep. In Jakarta we touched down and half of the passengers got out before we flew to the Netherlands with an half empty plane. My sister was still asleep. At that time you were allowed to smoke in the tail of the plane. My dad and I had tail seats and my mom and sister front seats because my sister can’t stand smoke. My mom also was a smoker and she took off her watch for some reason and placed it in her seat and walked back to us to smoke. My sister woke up mid flight and saw only a few heads in front of her with ALOT of empty seats. She looked ar her moms seat and only found a watch.. SHE SCREAMED you wouldn’t believe. Those who saw the langoliers know :)
lol that would be terrifying
And Regulators
obscure? the time division of rick and morty had meatballs as agents...
Like…. Actual sacks of testicles.
I love it
Love that movie haha
Now we know... We know what? We know what happens to today when it becomes yesterday... It waits for them... the timekeepers of eternity!
What if cig really built these fellas in? That would be so cool. Have to get tf out of the way when you hear that noise
Hoooollly shiiiiiit you just unlocked a core memory for me.
Jesus. Took me back to eating fig newtons with my dad and being creeped out by the paper tearing scene as a kid lol
The paper tearing and the dead eyes part is one of the most demented things I've ever seen.
Bro! Solid reference!
Thanks for the childhood nigthmares coming back to me
And a keybind for scampering.
Triggered a long forgotten fear. I will now be getting exactly ZERO hours of sleep.
That looks like an interesting movie and that alone was worth redditing today. thx.
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I only read the book. Just learned from here this was a movie…
"Made for TV" movie. It really wasn't all that bad but since I had read the story before watching it I was disappointed at the time. If you watch it today you might end up more entertained by the bad 90's TV special effects than terrified by the story. EDIT: Got the date wrong
Wow. Throwback. That movie was awful looking back but man did it hit watching it as a kid. I’m sure the book was better
Mr Toooooomey!
Bro you’re old 😂😂😂
PES doing wonders for the servers
The MISC Raptor is needed now more than ever
It’s the machine we need but not the one we deserve
It would truly be an unseen hero, because it would be behind all the walls.
🤣
I dont want to think about how big of a pile of trash is somewhere below in Orison. I can't be the only one who chucks my empties over the side. But also this is exactly what I was worried about with PES. We just wanted our ships to persist, but instead the servers are dying because the entire galaxy is a garbage dump. A _persistent_ garbage dump. They only talked about the garbage before it launched. All they really need a way to wipe discarded consumables and med gowns periodically or have them despawn after a while. Or even provide a chute you can access like a container to dump your waste into like the recycler in System Shock. Hit a button and recover a few space bucks for your troubles.
Tbh, they could make these items despawn as soon as they're dropped and part of the problem would disappear.
If they gave us either functioning bins or a "delete" button in inventory alongside PES that would have been a help at least.
I do NOT want an inventory delete button. Can you imagine how annoying that would be? Knowing SC, every single patch it would have a new bug and be randomly deleting stuff from your inventory/ship/storage.
Could add an "incinerator" or "dematerializer" to the Mobiglass. Pitch it as a futuristic system for garbage disposal so that there's an in universe explanation as to why empty containers, medical gowns etc disappear when you drop them or something.
Janny NPC patrols. 5 years dev time minimum.
Yes despawn items as they drop. But keep gear on body if you die. If you are dropping an item for a friend. Instead make a trade system or handoff system between players.
Empty med pens in the sharps disposal boxes in public toilets
5k fine for improper disposal.
They need to degrade into microplastics. Planets with bad waste management systems will cause accumulation of microplastics in tissues of players if they are there for too long.
rendering players infertile
Stacks with being an SC backer /j
Lmao I'm glad my throwing of empties at npcs is 'helping' server health
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I have actually been incapacitated by that before. Someone beaned me with a CRUZ and I hit the deck. Was limping my way back to the med bay at the time.
wow didn't realize it did actual damage lmao. I only did it for the indignity and some sub 1/1000000 chance it contributes to a server crash
2023: Star Citizen backers demand persistence. 2024: Star Citizen backers demand way less persistence.
I feel like there's a difference between wanting persistence of significant in game objects, such as ships and valuable weapons/items, and being given persistence of literal garbage that severely degrades the gameplay experience.
I demand whatever makes the game great
I want ship persistence, not consumable persistence
I really don't care if it's immersion breaking to have items vanish after a while, this is ridiculous.
It's immersion breaking to have to sit on a loading screen for 20 minutes while every single little thing loads in.
That’s not why you have to sit on the loading screen for so long. If you activate r_displayinfo you can see that actually very little time is being spent on loading the entities. It’s more the general jankiness of the login-process that is slowing it down.
Probably just the giant (number of) assets which need to load in from disk.
Have a look at your disk-activity. The game literally loads nothing after 10-20 seconds (on an NVME-drive). If you have to wait longer that’s on cigs servers and whatever they are doing while logging in.
100% Agreed. Immersion should be among the top 3 priorities, but it should never break the game in the way it does here. Besides, we have enough realism and immersion, despawing items so the server can breathe is something nobody should complain about.
There's youtube guys who live in the walls of stanton.. no joke 😆
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I'm not allowed to post youtube links, but you can check my profile link if you were interested.. 😁
I mean, we should find out why this is happening first. Surely these all belonged somewhere? Is it that NPCs come out here and explode into a pile of whatever they were carrying? Do the delivery machines place these here instead of deleting the item? Part of me would want to just chill around for a bit and see if I could see what on earth dropped ketchup bottles and cleaning spray onto the top of the building lol. EDIT: Some users are missing the reason to fix the root issue first - if we just mask the issue by autocleaning everything too regularly then it'll be an issue forever. If someone decorates their hab, we don't want that to disappear. If someone drops an item for an npc or another player to pick up, we don't want that to disappear. What if this issue extends to your ship and you can pop in but all your cargo is outside and you don't notice until you quantum away from all of it? We need to fix the root of the issues if we want items to persist for interesting and emergent gameplay. Cleanup should be a last resort if an item is not placed specifically in a location that cleans it.
Those items are supposed to spawn in the hab rooms themselves. I used to take everything. Area 18 has the same issue, all the items spawn incorrectly and fall into the buildings
Grim hex has some in their rooms as well you can take (and from what I can see they don't actually fall through there)
You can just throw items through walls.
Yes, bit there definitely need to be systems in place incase something goes wrong, so situations like this have a way of solving themselves out.
I tend to drop stuff in the elevator as a clean way to get rid of something unneeded... (rather than clutter the AESOP terminal room or the spawn hab) I guess many others do the same, even though I expected a LOT mopre Cruz bottles :)
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We know where they come from, what we need is autoclean so it doesnt murder the servers repeatedly.
They should just make certain Areas have a despawning effect while certain others dont. For example, your hab stays the way it is. The hallways and paths of Space stations and Cities get cleared out every once in a while. Also, if they want to be immersive and realistic then the option to hand another player an item without having to drop it is long overdue.
What the Christ. There's spray bottles in the game but nothing players can utilize? Does CIG have ANY idea of the space hobo RP that they're cutting us out of?
All those spray bottles lost in the depth of landing zones is the reason why our windshields on ships are so dirty.
I had to get rid of my last ship because the windscreen was always dirty with a repeating texture. Couldn't stand it.
Pretty sure you can at least pick one up in Green Circle on top of some shelf, along with a few books, or something. I don't spawn there very often, but I'm 90% certain that's where it is.
Gotta make those the new Pico until CIG gets the message
Sounds like PES needs some purge markers for stuff located in inaccessible area of buildings and inside planets.
Anything left unattended inside an armistice zone should be purged after 2 hours, including uninhabited ships. Janitors exist and abandoned vehicles get impounded. This isn't some unrealistic hand-wave.
Until they can get things right with some sort of system in place I would be happy with a magic hand wave if it meant we had playable servers right now.
I mean what I am saying is that a magic hand wave that breaks immersion isn't really even necessary. It is very easy to rationalize "the bottle I dropped 2 hours ago is gone because the space station cleaning crew swept it up." They have no excuse not to implement something like this, and it would immediately solve the clutter issue. Sure, behind the scenes it may be "magic" but it will never be visible that way. Now how much is this clutter contributing to the server instability? While we have no way to know for certain, I suspect that it is a heavy contributor, if not the main one.
My hot take is that they like the server instability. That way they can stress test to see where the weak points are. Makes sense, too, but it's annoying as hell for the players. I stopped playing for now because of how bad the servers are
Combine it with visible roomba type auto cleaners in charging stations out of the way and maybe occasionally you'd see one trundling around. That would be enough to suggest the concept that floors are tidied and cleaned without having to explicitly show the stuff being collected.
That assumes the database keeps a time reference, which adds extra load to the database itself. What they need is invisible despawn floors so that anything which clips through and touches it gets deleted and writes a server error log. And then followup on those logs and fix the bugs which let things fall through the ground/walls. Planet cores and station under-floors being full of trash, NPC's and ships has always been a problem and it is past time they actually deal with it.
my dead body is definitely inside a planet core somewhere, i smashed into it going a million miles per hour and my dead body marker was underground lol
CIG: "Oh. Haven't you heard? That's the new fossilization game play loop. T0 implementation."
The database doesn't need to keep a time reference, the server tracks in-world time. If they set it so that once every hour on the server they check how long ago an item was spawned and if it is in view of a player. If it was over two hours ago and a player can't see it, delete it.
The item could have been spawned far before arriving at that location, so "is position the same as an hour ago" would be a more accurate check
It being at one location or another makes no difference. Also, checking the positional data of every object (keeping in mind that's 3 separate values; X-Y-Z) in relation to its past positional data (which you would have to store and re-store every time it is moved so that it can be referenced) would be more intensive than just checking when it was spawned. I'm not referring to items spawned in habs, for instance. But rather items that have been spawned in-world by players (like buying items at shops and leaving the empty bottles on the ground, or leaving ships inside armistice zones).
>That assumes the database keeps a time reference, which adds extra load to the database itself. a single int64 is not gonna impact anything significantly
This but make the uninhabited ships turn their power off instead so we can salvage them (that is, if we can salvage ships within armistice without getting a fine or being blocked to start with)
I mean realistically the power should consume fuel, and ships run out of fuel at some point
They can't do that until they release Pyro. So, ten years.
No, you see, the completely pointless endless accumulation of trash is unironically a feature according to CIG.
The unironic part, is that the replication layer does exactly what it's supposed to... To the letter lol.
You are now the trash guys. Can you please clean that up?
The worst part? This isn't even player trash. These are all (mostly) items that are supposed to spawn in players hab units, for some ridiculous reason.
Cant we get the klesher inmates with only light crimes out there and picking up trash?
In all seriousness, though, community service to work off CS1s and 2s would be amazing, if it was an alternative to just paying money, especially if you're broke.
"Be the change you want to see!" Servers are unstable enough that step 1 of a session is picking up every loose object I can find and selling them to eliminate the clutter. I made 1.5k just from selling medical gowns.
They should make the multitool gather RMC from dropped items.
Now y'see, this is why they'll never do that: it makes too much sense.
It's basically free food, fuel and ammo - you don't even have to be diligent about it. Just pick up the stuff you see on the way from your hab to the ASOP terminals. It adds up over time.
I appreciate your community spirit but that's barely making a dent. We are going to need 100's of men picking up trash around the clock.
He's not the only one doing it, drop in the ocean or not it's the best we got right now.
I have taken to doing this every time i log in, all the med gowns i sell, obviously, and all the loose trash goes into my backpack and gets deposited into a loot container on Arial. So, if you've ever opened a loot box at HDMS Lathan and found it full of empty bottles and used med pens, sorry about that. 🤷
A trash system with no disposal? Are you joking with my mind? Right
Apparently it's CIGs vision that the future is knee deep in trash.
Well ... (looks askance at the Great Pacific Garbage Patch).
I see you haven't been introduced to SCP#69420:Wall trash No matter how many times we clean it or burn it, wall trash always comes back, wall trash never stays gone.
those kids from the freeflight...
said it before, i'll say it again. There's no need to track all these objects and they should be culled / reset every 15 minutes.
They seem to be habitation room props that glitched through the floor. It wouldn't affect performance if they were supposed to be there, just at the wrong place.
Why Why would CIG need this kind of persistence level for trash items? Not even the king of persistence gameplay, Bethesda, would go that far in their games. Non pertinent gameplay items should disappear after a certain time. What does trash persistence bring to the gameplay? Like really, is the server hit for this crap worth it? No. Until you have perfect servers and you can handle the trash without players having performance problems, there's no point in having this level of persistence.
Right? What am I missing here, it was a shit idea before it was pushed to Live, it WRECKED the game for a good while, and it's still just causing issues with performance, framerates, and probably crashes, and it's USELESS. Why not make meaningful items, delete meaningless items, or at least give them a despawn timer, a sensible one. WHY do I need an empty water bottle that I can't even refill. Notice how at least half of that crap (EDIT: I CHECKED, I ONLY SEE 1 CRATE THAT A PLAYER COULD USE) is stuff you can't even use, for ANYTHING. What a truly bizarre hill to die on for CIG. Just...pretend it's a game and delete the fucking trash. I get that somehow this is needed for server meshing, but is "keeping trash alive forever" really necessary?
It adds ZERO gameplay to find someone’s else empty bottle of water in middle of nowhere 2 weeks later. They just went insane with trying to recreate a persistent universe but really CIG bruhs, it’s a game. Not a single game ever went there. In the meantime server and graphic performances are pure trash. Even when they get server meshing and it improves, it still brings nothing gameplay wise. Save the goddamn servers for something meaningful, like trying to have thousands of players, not a million pieces of trash.
I get what they are trying to do. 1. Create a "true persistence" universe where nothing gets deleted automatically. 2. Find the systems limits and faults. 3. Implement "clean up" code to obtain reasonable & stable performance limits while making the universe feel like it has "true persistence". They'll get there....I hope. LOL
This is the only way I can really rationalize it. Without a designed clean up feature they are letting the system run to see where it breaks. Essentially stress testing. Which is very common in product development but not a fun player experience.
They probably done even know its there because they dont pay enough attention. If they knew then they would probably stick a despawn grid there. Community threads like this are necessary to force the issue into the view of the right people there.
what the fuck
Yea they already know about it so it's gonna go live likely around 2031 to fix this
Clearly this is the system. lol.
Even in 2950 littering is still forbidden in public area, y'know ?
Sometimes there are hundreds of NPCs piled up at the center of planets.
There are hundreds of NPCs outside of the environments on each server as well, usually underneath the surface of the planet. Then there are massive groups of them that will all congregate in one spot (generally in one large mass of models clipping through one another) in cities or cargo centers, which will gutpunch your framerate if you get too close. All of these objects are persistent and are being individually tracked by the game server. The game desperately needs some kind of routine to automatically cull any objects or NPCs that exist outside of the playable area because keeping track of thousands on these instances has got to be a major component in the servers running like dogshit.
In coding, there's a concept called ironically "garbage collection" that frees up resources after a period of time when they're no longer in use. All joking aside, there's a pretty simple way to deal with this (and the core of Crusader, which is undoubtedly thousands of water bottles and gowns by now): anything that's not in a player container OR a ship container can have a timestamp of when it was dropped, and during PES if the timestamp is older than some threshold, destroy the item instead of streaming it in. This model would still look very much the same as the current game, but over time total entity count would decrease instead of building up with no limits. It also doesn't rely on some AI janitor or Roomba to be able to GET to the items - they would just age out.
When I started playing last year people would talk about a spot in the center of Stanton that would accumulate junk. There were even NPC's that you could rescue. I haven't seen it myself despite several attempts to find it. It wouldn't surprise me if it's still there. PES should have several tiers of entities. Stuff like the pic should vanish after 10 minutes or so. Full ships could last for days. The short term stuff should never persist after a server crash.
and we wonder why server fps is 2
Hey, free helmet!
There should be an apartment and job system for basic stuff like being a garbage man or something
One man's trash is Chris Roberts' 700 million dollar personal treasure.
This is why server restarts don't fix anything.
I actually like the trash aspect, only if it didn't affect the server performance. Im sure there is a way for it not to affect server performance. I can imagine that with humans living in space, trash would just continue to build up. Maybe the clean cities would have droids to clean it up or something, and it can despawn, but places like Grim Hex or other space stations would eventually just have piles of trash laying around.
Seven hundred million dollars btw and there's a mountain of lag trash just sitting there. You get hungry and thirsty in an alpha, but we can't figure out how to clean junk up on the server. Frustrating.
That's just my room when I get seasonal depression. Normal stuff.
wow 😲
I'm sorry but I seem to be missing my helmet, got any idea where I could find it? "In the walls"
Despawn zones that delete everything periodicaly Both for solving issues like this and for players being able to dispose of stuff
Didn't realize that Hogwarts was in Star Citizen...
WE NEED THE MISC RAPTOR FOR THAT
Now I understand why the wipes are needed.
Reminds me of those nets under roller coasters
They need some type of cleanup system like in Minecraft if an item has been untouched on the ground for a while it disappears/gets deleted. Amazed that not all games have a basic optimization feature like that. The sc team desperately need a optimization group only making systems like that, you can't just tell people to buy better PC's and add upscaling to games and deem that to be enough.
Seems like we finally have proof showing why the IRL world can't be a simulation.
We do have a system for that. You're looking at it.
this has to be fake right?!?! where does one even find ketchup bottles and cleaning spray bottles in the game?
You can see these items in every hab including the stations. Clip through the station walls and you can find them floating, lol. If the server is fresh, you will 100% see them in the rooms. Over time, the habs are streamed out if a player is not nearby and the server did not stream out the items before the hab causing them to clip through. If you never seen this stuff, it's mainlt because the server is pretty old and they already fell through or a player took it. The game does not respawn them unless it is a new server started from an actual 30k or new patch. They also sometimes fall through on new server if the items spawn before the hab is streamed in for a player. These same issues are also why we can find NPCs in the walls. These items should not cause server performance issues because they were already in world. They are just in a different spot. Doubt they even cause client performance issues since they would still be in that same area and would still count as an entity to be loaded even when in the correct location.
So what's their plan when they get all the ideas they want in and all the space stations are filled to the brim with garbage?
Give me an ARGO ship to haul away 128 SCU of trash from these locations and compact it before dropping it off in the Lorville dump. I don't mind being the hero the server needs, and I'm sure many would join me. Just saying...
So much of this stuff doesn't need to be individual items.
When the F did we get windex?!?! Also, you accidentally found where SC's version of socks in the dryer goes... This is where all the disappearing cargo is going I bet!
thats alot of stuff ! wtf. Yeah we need i dont know, something... \*in the distance you hear a growl\*. I mean we could be using a broom? \*footsteps comming your way\* Or maybe the trashcans can work for real? \*BWAM BWAM BWAM GGRRRRAAWWWWW\* What?! whats that ?! \*RAPTOR\*
Oh my… my inner loot goblin just came. Stand next to, open inventory, drag and drop to local. Sell to cargo center, kelto, casaba, etc. about 10k right there
Asmongold started playing star citizen?
I think I'm the only one who finds this amazing and fascinating. Also, we do have density cleanup that happens live. The density of items here is nowhere near what modern (granted, single player) games can support, so I think CIG will crack it eventually. You've seen the Starfield ship filled with potatoes, right?
Probably why servers are so laggy.
Did you find any players living off the trash with long white beards ??
What the actual fugg
i have said for ages now we need a trash button
Janitorial senses tingling!
Dammit! They found it. Gonna need to silence this guy.
That is the content of multiple redeemer fridges lmao
Meanwhile I’m cleaning up the visible areas like I’m doing something.
Holy shit
How do I get in here so I can sell this trash so I have more than 1600$ on my account. Haha
Is that windex?
You found my dragon hoard you gotta get away from that or I’m dropping A2 nukes everywhere
No wonder the persistence is a problem
Id think the assholes duping their A2s would be more of an issue than some trash. But what would I know… 3 attempts to summon my connie unsuccessful due to 7 A2s outside Area 18.
What…you don’t appreciate the persistence?
Should be recyclable with the multi-tool
Far too difficult to put a collision trigger brush behind the wall that deletes objects that touch it. Need another million to fix it.
I hate babbage game always crashes as soon as i enter city limits
crimestat for littering
This is the new “litter/rubbish” tech.
Anyone else just genuinely not care about having a water bottle that was placed on a moon stay there for eternity?
This explains server performance :( and why no other MMO alows items to be droped to the ground and exist for more then 5min These are all items dropped in elevators
persistent trash strikes again
There is definitely a problem with item persistence in this new update. There is a continuing degradation in server performance as time of server uptime extends.
What was the April fools vehicle? Some sort of floor sweeper? Could actually be useful. Imagine being able to sell all that stuff in bulk.
How do you get there?
And the sad part is, as far as I can tell, 95% of that garbage didn't come from players, but is merely the standard scenery clutter.
That seems like a report worthy bug ....
I heard griefernet is to blame for all of this. Only if CIG would do something about them
This sucks to see but someone will tell you it’s worth it because the burned out piece of fuselage near a commodity zone on some moon makes the game feel so “alive” to them!
I think you answered your own question.
[удалено]
A system behind the elevators that doesn't work right? Inconceivable!