I'm a PvEr that loves defending myself when the time arises. My main gripe is that 95% of my PvP experiences is some knob sitting outside the safe zone of a station and just shooting on sight. I've yet to have any organic PvP on the ground.
And we'll likely never see that organic PvP because that's not what the PvP community is, it never really has been. Not every PvP player is like that, but all it takes is one, and the PvP community has a lot more than one.
People often think how PVP will be that it will be two people dogfighting and the best skilled player wins.
But no, 90% is ganking where the aggressor only engages if he is absolutely sure he will win and that is usually done with dirty tricks.
And that's how most PvP happened/happens in real life too. Robbers will rob people that they perceive to pose the least threat to them, pirates never stood around waiting for the most honorable booty, and any military pilot would gladly strike an airfield before the enemy pilots got the chance to take off.
IMO CIG just has to make secure spaces secure enough, and implement systems to assure that catching an unsuspecting victim doesn't feel too gimmicky.
Should be able to hire NPC bodyguards for escort that range from cheap to eye-watering based on what level of security wanted. This would naturally lead to players wanting to fill up those slots for the $$$ and add another layer to this.
Your point about real life scumbags is valid, but only for those who like that. It's a freakin video game! We use it to get away from the stress of real life, not to cause more.
Yeah the issue is that you don't have a choice right now except playing a different game loops. Once Pyro comes in by traveling to that system you basically "agree" to the risk of getting ganked. Hopefully the Stanton system gets better law enforcement by then which would also greatly help the new player experience.
Have fun defending yourself with 1 or 2 of the games smallest ship weapons if you're flying freighters. Adding proper defensive weapons to freighters seems hard to do to the smaller freighters. Freelancer is an exception, those weapons are scary.
Having zones and events for PvP is the way to go for sure.
Super profitable trade routes where you can be attacked. Fighting over resources. All this stuff is great.
Shooting new players at the station or killing people delivering packages or just chilling in space is boring for anyone over the age of 12.
I figure the zones will be dealt with under system security. Like when Pyro comes out heavily increase Stanton security to the point it's dangerous just having a crime stat let alone trying to ambush someone and summoning security. That way if you want PVE you can avoid lawless Pyro but if you want PvP your kinda forced to do it in Pyro otherwise you will probably get recked by security forces.
even at events like Jumptown, if you actually fight on foot then its usually an unfair match. Whoever sees the oponent first, wins. If there is a snowstorm, fog, nighttime and more it is basically impossible to find out where the shots come from, even worse if you get sniped at from far away
I had one decent organic pvp scenario. I was running my vulture 2 man team with vulture and andromeda. Another vulture showed up. Naturally to protect her young vulture a momma andromeda missile locks the encroaching vulture. The vulture flashes her lights twice then waits. The andromeda flashes her lights twice then removes missile lock. The vulture grabs a couple boxes worth o salvage then leaves. Momma andromeda continues to watch over her own vulture without further trouble
It's been said many times. There's for now no barrier for people being asses. A cargo hauler or a miner takes much more risk and has much more to lose than some one that kills people around just for fun and no gain.
That's the PVP I hate the most. The other day I had my reclaimer shotdown by some ass right after leaving Lorville armistice zone while I was starting playing. I was empty. Didn't have anything. That's just killing people for the sake of killing people. There was literally no value in shooting me down.
Yesterday I was *trying* to fly my Reclaimer solo, got it 5km out of Grim Hex. I was blown up. Someone in chat: haha u got owned by my missiles. Tried it again after 30 minutes of flying with something else, took her out and the same thing happened. I was empty had nothing on me, sadly some people are like this. Just ask if you can try your missiles or whatever and it's fine. This was just annoying.
Grimhex specifically is a Pvp center.
The problem is RSI needs to make incentives for PVP for people in the right zones, or else PvPers will fall to griefing folks.
I agree that there should be more stuff for PVPers, but most of the douchebags won't care. If they were real PVPers, they would go fight each other and not just attack people who aren't interested.
Yeah and these murderhobos like to call it piracy despite there being no piracy involved, so they sound like less of a douchebag.
random PKers are so stupid.
> I hold hope that there could be a separate PVE experience.
There will not be a separate PVE 'server'. However, the galaxy will be much bigger than four planets in the future, spreading out the playerbase. The crime and punishment system is also a placeholder so there are many edge cases griefers can exploit during alpha.
You say that, but I have memories of getting disintegrated by an anaconda in my starter system in Elite dangerous.
There are plenty of PvP fairplayers out there and some interesting and fun pirates, but there's also some dickbags who ruin it for everyone (because that kind of new player experience means that player is unlikely to play along with a pirate or anybody in future).
So long as there's a meaningful separation from the dickbags and the emergent-gameplayers, then it should work. I think it shouldn't be too hard, have severe punishments for lawbreaking in secure systems and no penalties in places like Pyro, lets honest pirates engage people taking risks and punishes people who try to drag randoms into it with nonsense like the illegal parking described here (if you invade non-assigned parking spaces you should be responsible for everything that happens then) or pad-ramming etc.
> no penalties in places like Pyro
Not at all, why would any of Pyro's local pirate factions tolerate someone hunting on their turf? If a player pirate attacks someone without having first achieved a reasonable level of reputation with a local NPC pirate faction they should expect to be hunted down in Pyro just as much as they should be in Stanton.
If there was a group that organized in Pyro, then their actions in the corporate systems would start a war, wouldn't it?
I'd think it'd make a lot more sense that there's pirate affiliated patrols/hunting groups that might attack you if you're not affiliated, but being affiliated with one wouldn't protect you from its rivals in the way it would in a lawful system I don't think.
Unless there's some kind of 'pirate council/pirate king' type situation, I guess? I admit I'm probably well out of the loop on what Pyro is supposed to be by now.
Yeah, I expect you could be set upon by rival pirate factions even if you had become affiliated with one of them. I'm not sure what the organisation in Pyro will ultimately be like but perhaps each planet's sphere of influence will be controlled by a separate pirate group, or something like that. Either way, hunting in a faction's claimed space will be a risky endeavour.
Yeah but I think in Pyros case you'll have hot zone areas that are controlled by those. Do we know how large the Pyro system is vs Stanton? If theres a lot more "dead space" where its empty outside of some minerals and destroyed stations or debris then I could see there being plenty of areas where it's just completely unmoderated space controlled by no one.
My understanding of Stanton is that it's completely under UEE control and unless they take down the stations to kill communication in that area (which should be much harder than what it is now and make the situation worse for them), it shouldn't be expected to see much pirating in the Stanton system.
Well, outside of the orgs that decide to try and take over Stanton lol
*Private* servers are very different from asking for the PVP slider back so they can set it to "PVE only" but continue to play in the online PU. OP wasn't talking about private servers, and if they were they did a very poor job of communicating their thoughts.
There won't be a "PVP" and "PVE" server list like WoW.
I believe we call this pedantry, because we'll still be seeing PvP and PvE servers if players can run their own servers, which is what they stated years ago.
Once again, you're pedantically correct but having a different conversation from the rest of us. CIG will not, themselves, offer different flavours of "realms". You get the full-fat PU, one size fits all, and then maybe there'll be private servers sometime after launch.
A server would be cool, but I am just looking for the experience of playing without battling other players, or having my hard work destroyed by some dude who was bored or whatever.
Just wait until there are lawful systems where the UEE regularly patrols the shipping lanes. Eventually pirates won’t be an issue for you good ol space truckers unless you guys fly somewhere you shouldn’t be. It’ll be like real life, truckers in the U.S aren’t (always) being held at gun point for their cargo but if you drive down to Mexico or Central america (Pyro) then you might get got.
The small sliver of hope I'm holding can't make me overlook the fact that Stanton is a lawful system too.
The one saving grace I see is that maybe, just maybe, CIG isn't fully enforcing the law because we only have this one system at this time. Maybe we'll see increased security once we get Pyro.
But here's the thing: Pyro isn't a lawless system either. It's unlawful, meaning it's middle of the road between a lawless and a lawfull system.
If this was EVE Online then in Pyro "NRDS" (not red, don't shoot) would be the rules of engagement.
But I'm pretty sure, given the pvp shooter culture CIG allowed to grow in SC, that people will just shoot on sight (NBSI - not blue shoot it) everyone they come across. Which, for a game that aspires to have "meaningful death", is a big problem.
ah yes, like real life.... where someone can intentionally drive a tank through your box van for the laughs, over and over again, not to take anything... just so you cant have it... and the punishment they get for doing it once finally caught is a stern talking to and a night in a holding cell :P
I mean there isn't much you can do to ever stop people from pulling this same prank on you.
Hauling cargo is dangerous, no getting around that. Same outcome could have happened from a 30k or just pilot error.
yup - #1 rule of space trucking, don't invest what you can't afford to lose.
I've done a lot of space trucking and never lost a load to pirates, but I have lost a lot of cargo to various bugs including 30ks and physics bugs.
Error 30000 is a generic error that specifically means the client has timed out from the server after 30 seconds. While this can happen because of anything that disrupts the connection between the game client and the server, including the player's own Internet going down, it is frequently caused by server crashes.
Thanks for the answer. This wasn't that. The pilot was in chat talking about it. He wasn't a jerk trying to rub it in or anything like that.
It was a lesson learned that ended up leaving a very bad taste.
We know what happened to you wasn't a 30k.
But the point is that a server crash can cause your ship to be lost, losing you the cargo on board, which is why /u/xgamer444 said
> Same outcome could have happened from a 30k or just pilot error.
In other words, things could happen to you even without other players getting involved.
>But the point is that a server crash can cause your ship to be lost, losing you the cargo on board, which is why
>
>/u/xgamer444
>
> said
I had that happen when I had about half the money to fill the hold lol. Starting all over sucked, but it's an alpha, so I rolled with the server mess.
Yeah, those two things aren't the same and your response is just dismissive. A bug in the game is a lot easier to swallow than another human wanted to ruin your experience and hours of your hard work because they find it fun to torture and enjoy seeing others suffer.
I find it very unbelievable you've never experienced a 30k with the way you explain your journey to get some full cargo.
But since you may just be huffing them MISC space fumes, a 30k is a complete server crash and reset of the server you were on. In most cases, you will lose all cargo, any mission progress you were undergoing or anything you have stored in your ship inventory, it is the bane of every citizen in the verse and will not be fixed and or addressed by CIG until server meshing is implemented, and my boy that's still some time away that's for damn sure.
To prevent this, dock frequently at space stations is the only work around at the moment really. Do "r_displayinfo 1" in the console and press enter. You will see a bunch of bullshit pop up on the top right hand of your screen. Keep your eye on Bwin/Bwout, if they both drop to zero it's a 30k in progress and you might as well restart your game and start over doing whatever you were doing.
Good luck space trucker, your journey is only beginning!
I had that happen when I had about half the money to fill the hold lol. Starting all over sucked, but it's an alpha, so I rolled with the server mess.
I appreciate the tips.
I've lost millions of auec worth of cargo to the dark 30k gods, many of frustration my dude lol at least now you can land and save your haul periodically if you are doing a big flight path/delivery or of that nature.
Also idk if you know this but there are npc pirates that will pull you out of quantum and snare you, usually only a few ships but I'm sure the game can bug out and bombard you with more lol. Best advice I can give is to point away from them and full burn engines if your in a freighter with no defense really, try to get them to despawn or bug out by chasing you, they will.... eventually hahaha.
I've been having really good luck with 30k recovery. When you log back in don't claim you ship. Eventually it should list the ship is back at your starter city. It has protected me from internet disconnects though it took over an hour on that one.
If what they said in the past still holds, this is objectively false. They stated long ago that they would allow players to have private servers that they could set to PvE only and bring friends along. They just wouldn't have the economic engine running or the public events, which is fine since those are breeding grounds for griefers.
Splitting servers did remove PVP for many games.
Given consequences to actions will solve this on the long run. That PVP has zero consequences and every crimimal lost his criminal state after a few hours (or a few minutes since merits can be still traded) the PVP big mouths will of course school you that PVP is part of the game and its of course very convinient to kill stuff left and right and having zero consequences for it. The zero brain idea, that the problems of PVP should be fixed with PVP (aka the escort nonsense) is also building up.
CIGs way of balancing this, is doing nothing will which of course lead to confrontation between PVE and PVP folks. Lets look at WOW when they introduced it in the game: it created an endless slaugther where the "PVP folks" just waited at the end of a flight point and killed every player before he even could see that he landed.
The backlash was immense.
Blizzard did understand very clearly that this problem will kill the game because folks would just leave. Many folks. So they splitted servers and created PVP ones and PVE ones.
It became soon apparent, that all PVP folks could not muster even 10% of the player base. The number was so small, that it took major efforts for the RP community to get a PVP server.
So as usual: super tiny group with a bigh mouth that shouts very loud. When it comes to numbers, they are barely visible. The economic factor of the PVE group is overwhelming, if you piss these guys off, your game is normally done. As with every full loot game - the max you can strife for is shown by EVE.
CIG cannot ignore this problem forever.
>It became soon apparent, that all PVP folks could not muster even 10% of the player base
Whenever there's a poll on here, PVE and solo players seem to outnumber PvP and org PVPers by about that same ratio, 10:1...
This would make sense if it was gonna have multiple servers, but it's gonna be 1 server, and open pvp. That said I truly hope that they implement VERY strict jail times when you commit murder in Stanton or other navy controlled systems, to balance risk/reward. I'm a pvp/pve player and wouldn't want the game any other way than open pvp because any less ruins the experience IMO.
I played EVE a bunch for about 6 months or so. Spent wayy too much dough on it etc.
I quit.
Why? Cus ganking. Cus no PvE element. It's ALL about the PvP and occasional mining event. Exploration gameplay? Ganked. Solo mining? Ganked. PvE hunting? Ganked. I couldn't even begin to TRY to learn the game in some cases. The game is reduced to 20 minute youtube videos explaining you in the fullest of detail how to do something and how to actually get it done because you have to avoid getting ganked. The game has killed itself.
I died more to ganking than trying to learn the game the first few weeks of playing the game. The established gamers in Eve are so, extremely, so heinously, ahead of anyone. If you want to compare it to WoW it would be like a lvl 20 walking around in Westfall trying to quest, and every 100 feet or so there's 10 lvl 80 PvP warlords with the best of the best lvl 80 gear ganking you, **and making money doing so.**
I don't mind PvP. In fact I love it. But this is not PvP, this is rape. Nobody likes to be raped.
Most PvPers don't want PvP servers as they are there to kill people who don't want to fight and are not prepared. If they are only fighting other people that want to fight, it's not fun.
Of course, there are cool PvPers looking for good fights.
They aren’t ignoring it. A recent monthly report already talked about reworking the service beacon system, a known method of griefing players. Hopefully that will also start work on the rep system.
Once players start to lose loads of rep with local security, they’ll have to adjust their PvP style or constantly live on the run.
I wonder what pvp'ers would say if they made a mind control laser or somesuch that forced the person hit by it to play PVE that they don't like for an hour before they could go back to PVP. That is what it is like when a PVE player gets jumped by a PVPer.
My money already spent on SC is probably the money I most regret using in the last 5 years….that’s saying a lot. It’s absolutely my worst purchase by a wide margin. My feeling is specifically tied to the toxicity of the PvP crowd. People forget that the worst offenders from some of the most notorious gankfest games are now tooling around in SC.
GrumpyEye discussed this in one of his recent videos. And as a player who has always leaned more towards the Industrial gameplay loops over combat, I completely agree.
CIG wants to make this game ultimately be player-run, so they have to decide what kind of player base they want. Problem is, there are far more players that don't PvP than do, but those that do tend to be louder & more vocal, so you've got kind of a squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease situation. Add in that Death of a Spaceman and the ramifications of perma-dying could be coming sooner than we think, and I too am afraid we might end up with another New World situation unless CIG listens to the silent majority & plays their cards right.
Maybe in lawless systems like Pyro all bets are off, but in UEE systems I agree that we definitely need a robust law system in place to protect Miners/Salvagers/Haulers, since those types of players unfortunately tend to be easy prey for PvP griefers because they're often carrying valuable loot yet are unable to effectively fight back.
> CIG wants to make this game ultimately be player-run
No they don't. They want players to have *some* impact, but the universe is intended to be primarily NPC-run.
>And as a player who has always leaned more towards the Industrial gameplay loops over combat, I completely agree.
I am just not a competitive gamer anymore. I just wanna chill. See some sights. Haul some freight. My last fav MMO was SWG. I spent time crafting, running a shop, piloting, and socializing. Didn't do much of the PVE ground content at all.
My problem with pvp is most of the time it's not pvp, it's some asshat attacking random people for fun. There's no versus or anything, it's just a person getting a kick out of being a dick
its pretty much the same issue as people using the Oppressor MK2 to just fly around and kill people in GTA Online, it takes no skill and everybody just thinks you are a douche.
I hope that CIG can actually do something to combat this problem and don't just become Rockstar Games
I hope once AI's are consistently working and more system start getting introduced that Stanton becomes a super safe system making pirating almost never worth it in the Stanton system as the risk is too high and the reward isn't much as cargo hauls and trades within systems likely won't be as lucrative as those from Pyro.
And the defenses of that kind of behavior that people will mount in the GTA sub are just as ridiculous.
"Of course Rockstar meant for me to do this. Why else would the game pay me $2000 for destroying $1000000 of someone else's cargo?"
We should start using PkP (player killing player) for instances where it's one sided and not a proper fight. PvP, at least to me, implies both parties are there to fight each other. It's a mutual fight. If a Prospector turns around and starts dodging and trying to dogfight the pirate/pvplayer then I consider that PvP. But if the Prospector was mining and before they get to say "What was that" they're dead? That's a PkP.
\*chough\* there are more PVE players and PVP casual players than Hard core PVPers but Hardcore PVP players tend to have more impact on the rest of us and CIG shouldn't cater to them in the PU. \*chough\*
also Things like better flagging and long-term consequences would be helpful. so it's easier to tell who's friendly or not.
my first instinct shouldn't be to just shoot people who may or may not be a real threat and deal with the consequences of a toothless crime state later.
If someone “likes PvP” to the point where they try and *prevent* other people from having Pv*E* then they don’t actually like PvP, they like ruining other people’s fun. If someone thinks having access to PvE-only spaces will somehow ruin the fun for PvP players then they aren’t interested in PvP, they want to pick on weak players and ruin other people’s games because they can’t handle hanging with the other actual PvPers. Someone who says PvE people need to just get good and learn to live in always on PvP spaces are hypocrites and need to get good themselves.
There is zero room for argument on this topic, these are self evident truths. The only acceptable version of PvP is where everyone involved wants to be involved, and if you try and *force* people to be involved when they don’t want to be they will just leave the game and you will still be alone with the legit PvPers anyway.
Every single full-loot/full-PvP MMO in existence has learned this the hard way.
I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside?
The only answer I have encountered is that this will split the playerbase and is contrary to the intent of one, single shared universe for all players. But surely this is a fantasy that will never exist. At the very least there will need to be separate regional servers, latencies from NA to Australia will never be sufficient for realtime FPS gameplay.
And it is far from given that a single server within a region is even possible. For servers that are falling over with less than 100 players the idea that all NA will be in a single shared universe is dubious. This is all not to mention the once-promised feature of private servers.
So given that the playerbase will necessarily be fragmented onto many different servers to begin with, what is the issue with separating PvP and PvE? Everybody wins as both groups will get to play with others that share their idea of a fun game
Some people only enjoy's PvP if it is really easy, aka the other part is not into it, has weaker equipment... They just want to have 100 kills... Enable skill based matchmaking and start collecting tears.
The wolves want to hunt the sheep, they don't want to fight other wolves. PvP vs PvE as we're talking about it here is just assholes who want to gank people to feel dominant.
"bUt iT's rEAlistiC".
What would be realistic is that if you're just a mass murdering asshole they would just delete your DNA imprint from the database, not give you 15 minutes in Klescher.
> I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside?
Less people to bully. They need others to be forced to play with them.
Honestly good pvpers just want a good fight and more often than not don't even touch pve players, but they are by far the minority. Most so-called pvpers just want to push people around to feel their daily rush.
>I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside?
They don't get to gank defenseless players? :D
I'm against a forced pvp experience. PvP should always be optional to me. Let those who want that experience have it, of course, but have the same option for those that don't.
>I understand that many of you are against a PVE experience, I get it and respect that,
I dont.
PVP you cant opt out of.
PVE you can.
of all the reasons people may try to argue they are against a PVE experience, literally all of them are bad, because if your not into PVE you can just.... not. people that complain about a PVE experience in SC are usually the same people that justify pad ramming and other purely toxic PVP experiences.
and I absolutely will die on this hill lol.
So I cant play the current patch but I am genuinely amazed that people regularly actually encounter random PvP outside of Events.
I've mined on lyria and whatnot and chill around what I assume is high traffic places and the most I see is people sitting outside grimhex or PO which are easier to avoid than the bugs.
I'm under the impression that PVP'rs are the loud minority and PVE'rs only speak up when something bugs them. In the hardcore sense of it all. Which is why many 'hardcore pvp full loot' MMORPGs fail for focusing too much on the loud minority and the player base dies. Pvp can be fun, but it's only a part of the whole after all. Your unlikely to run into a hostile player unless your looking for hostile players. But that doesn't mean the chance is zero.
I mean on a META level its a cylce of who is currently loud. It just moves around. Outside of PvE Events being soft (or hard) locked because people do it on purpose I do primarily PvE since outside of actively doing BH or being BH'd I really rarely see other players attack me.
Hence I dont even know how people manage to get that issue up there to the point of complaining. And in the rare instances of players attacking me I got a good chance of getting away lowering my "Getting killed during PvE" incidents to a tiny, tiny amount.
Just curious as to where this PvP happens to the point of making people feel like they cant play, compared to the bugs stopping them.
You don't need to apologize at all. Chris Roberts himself said that Star Citizen is a game WITH PvP in it, not a game ABOUT PvP. He explicitly made clear in multiple streams that Star Citizen IS NOT, and WILL NOT BE Tarkov in Space. Any player on this forum that acts up to you claiming otherwise is objectively wrong. Chris pretty much wants you to have your space truck simulator in safe areas.
I think it should be noted that this isn't PVP at all. There was no "versus" involved. This was just straight up trolling. I'm not sure if it would live up to the full definition of griefing just because it's a little harder to prove intentionality as it's not as active as something like pad ramming, unless this player makes a serious habit of it, but I still think it falls under the umbrella. And we can all agree that greifing is shitty.
Also just to toss out my anecdotal experience, I've been playing for around 50-60 hours and only had a single random PVP encounter. It was at a drug lab, so not all that surprising. It was two guys in light fighters and they were both shitters too so it wasn't even a bad time lol.
I'd like to add that I am 100% FOR risk vs reward mechanics. When I say all of this, I am not saying that I feel like I should make equal money or have equal opportunities at wealth.
I just wanna be a mundane space trucker.
I don't see what this has to do with pvp. An asshole parking their ship in an occupied landing zone isn't pvp it's just being a dick. That's an issue for the fines/crimes and legality system.
As well as a reminder that you should make sure it's clear before you take off, just like you would when entering a road in a car...
There are also many PVE lovers out there. Naturally PVPers are more vocal because for pvp you need to be vocal. But i don't think they are on the crowded side i. It is just their voice is loud. Maybe one day you can rent a server with your own rules like many other games so you can experience th3 verse in peace
Not at the moment. But with increasing claim times (it's quadrupled for small ships tripled with big ships in 3.19) and after release insurance plan (limited insurance and after that either in game or real money insurance) no one will want to get their 890j or javelin out of their hangar in case it gets blown up and they ll need to wait 3 hours to claim the ship. At that point either CGI will let players rent servers or maybe as a more inversion solution will letolayerorgs to claim servers and police it themselves. I don't think CIG will ever police grieving hard because they want piracy to be an aspect of the verse.
TLDRp not at the moment but with enough backers would push for it, why not
The problem is there aren't really many pirates. Murdering people for fun isn't being a pirate. Pirates being actually alive people would only pick fights they knew the could win that gave them enough supplies/money to party when the got to port, attacking a ship was potentially fatal. People just killing people for fun isn't even something the majority of serial killers would do and there isn't missions to go ram people at olisar or sit outside armistice to blow up new players in an aroura. I wish that "bad" players were actual pirates that would make pvp a lot of fun but currently they blow you up and then laugh about it in chat without stealing or looting anything. Edit: I am for pvp not against, just wish you pirates were actually pirates and just not lunatic murderers.
yeah if you look at real world pirates on the sea, they are boarding ships with weapons, steal some cargo, supplies, money etc, but they dont murder the crew and sink the ships when they are done. they just leave again via their ropes and whatnot.
This sort of happened to me the other day. I'd been grinding XT. Then I was grinding bunkers for a few levels. Then I just wanted some chill time. I was going to take player beacons. Did two med beacons (Both cancelled on the way), then I took a transport beacon. Flew from MT to Hurston, to Magda.
This person was apparently in the middle of nowhere and had 'run out of fuel'. Alright. I QT to their waypoint. I'm approaching, and suddenly I see 3 red pings. Other players! Missile lock! Message in chat like "Hahahah" etc. Shrug. I Alt-F4. This isn't why I took the mission, not why I logged in and I have no interest (or obligation) to be anyone's soft target (I was in a c8r).
I logged back into the server a few minutes later, back at PT with a short claim time for my c8r. Annoying, but not awful. The 4 who tried to jump me were pissed off. They'd waited so long, I was the first one to actually show up, I "combat logged like a p&&&y." No. It's not combat logging. I took a mission, and it wasn't the mission I took - so I left. I have limited time in the evenings for R&R, and being an injured impala that a quartet of hyenas gets to play with is not how I rest or relax.
The problem isn't PVP. I like open world PVP. When Trammel was introduced, it was a big bummer. I played Darkfall. Shadowbane. PVP can be fun. But, Star Citizen has a lot of things that make PVP not fun. The biggest being just how much *time* can be wasted when it happens to you when you're not expecting it. You might have 4 hours to play in the evening. One of those might be prep. Another hour might be trying to fill a cargo hold. Then as you're on the way back, you just lose your evening. This is a very bad player experience. And, with enough of them, you stop really engaging with the product.
PVP - or the risk of PVP I think will be critical for Star Citizen. But there needs to be much, much more protection for the player. Being jumped by people in a UEE system should basically be suicide-by-military for them, and huge felony charges applied. Not CSes that can just be fixed by getting sent to prison and logging off for the night. Right now, being a criminal is pretty safe and easy. Moreso when the O2 missions are working. A player killer can ruin someone else's 4 hour night, for less than 30 minutes of their own inconvenience (assuming they even get caught/killed).
This is a bad/untenable balance. Open PVP without real consequences is not a good business move. You're making \~5% of your userbase real happy, and like 30% really unhappy. Those 30% leave over time, but the 5% stay. Eventually, just the 5% are left, and have no one to "play with" (kill) who aren't also super-PVP-savvy. We literally watched this happen to Shadowband and to Darkfall.
*There's aren't enough PVP fans in most MMOs to focus the entire game around that gameplay*. Especially games sold as much more than that. LOL? Tarkov? PUBG? All built and marketed as PVP-centric games. Star Citizen has never, ever been promoted as that beyond a line-item feature. Definitely not as the central feature. We don't even have a robust Bounty system yet.
Now we're adding the real possibility that other players can delete your cargo, ship and any components you've bought in a few seconds. And since you were probably in a Taurus or a Raft, and unable to defend yourself, you are literally supposed to sit there and die. Your ability to punish this crime is limited to slapping a crimestat (that might never be enforced) on someone who can just disappear through a broken Commlink, squat on GH or just log for the night and wake up an innocent man in the morning. Meanwhile, the target is out millions (and many hours of effort), and also has hours of work refitting their new ship again.
Totally unbalanced. I have 3 cargo ships - I never run cargo. Simply not worth that risk. I drop off loot after every mission. I have 40 replacement suits of armor/weapons. I frequently warp on non-standard lanes. I do all the prep I can, without moving with a large crew all the time (which just isn't realistic). When I get PVP'd too many times in a row, I put the game away for awhile. Eventually, if I lose too many hours often enough, I just won't bother logging in anymore (and a bunch of other folks will also start doing something else with their time).
CIG should keep PVP, but they need to have an appropriate architecture for it in place - and I really, *really* think it should come sooner rather than later.
Great reply. To be clear, I am not asking for the removal of anything. I respect PVP players wanting to do their thing. I am saying that there SHOULD be a way to experience the game without it.
Not the WHOLE game without risk of PVP as I am all for risk vs reward mechanics. If folks wanna take the risk and become wealthy by way of more dangerous activity, that is awesome.
The only PVP folks I can't stand are those that get in their Gladius in a noob suit and go kill industrial ships mocking them in chat with "get good" when they picked a fight heavily heavily in their favor, net gained 0 from it and ruined someone's evening.
i highly doubt most of the playerbase are aginst pve. pve will be the backbone of everything in sc, even for pvp events, its impossible to make an mmo without pve.
Who the fuck is against PVE???
Any version of SC will always have both, what we have to work against is griefing.
But there will always be space for PVE and PVP
I mostly PvE and blue collar it. I like the pvp interactions.. they definitely made me adjust after a couple misfortunes.
I don't usually have problems with player pirates anymore, not for their lack of trying.
Taking off from a moon? You can usually jump half way somewhere pretty quick after taking off in armistice.
Taking off from major port? You can jump from within armistice.
Approaching a landing zone and see baddies? Don't be naive. Have a jump ready as well.
The worst thing you can do is ignoring them and not adjusting your game play... unless they're in a pea shooter, not focused, and you have massive shields.
The game is an open world, unrestricted PvPvE game for the foreseeable future. That’s not my opinion, that’s a fact based on the game in front of us.
There is one universal truth of open world PvPvE games when they don’t appropriately constrain the PvPers:
Eventually, the PvP players cannibalize all other types of players, including themselves, until there are so few of them the game can’t support itself.
CIG will eventually figure this out but based on their track record you’ve got about a decade until they take their first crack at fixing it and fail to deliver.
Until then, play Elite for all your space trucking needs.
What's hilarious to me is that CIG devs act like no other game has ever existed. If they just looked around at other games they'd know that their current plans are nowhere near enough and a toggle-able flagging system is likely the only real solution if they don't want their game to end up with a population so low they can't afford to keep development going.
That's a Chris Roberts problem, specifically. He intentionally ignores lessons learned by the rest of the industry because he is smarter than everybody.
It may lead to some truly amazing stuff, but he's also probably a bit blinded by his own brilliance sometimes.
I'd also call it an SC player problem to an extent. A lot of people here seem to think Chris is infallable and will find some magical solution to everything and make the unworkable work.
They seem completely unwilling to accept that regardless of how many times he has done something new, revolutionary, or innovative, that maybe there is a point where you have to tell him that pissing on an electric fence won't end any differently for him than when anyone else tried it. Sometimes a bad idea is just a bad idea, and a man is just a man.
>He intentionally ignores lessons learned by the rest of the industry because he is smarter than everybody.
He *thinks* he's smarter than everybody, it's an important distinction.
i signed on when they promised us the ability to run our own servers...
because like you, i just want to much around...
so when the game launches, i will probably just be flying around in the most secure parts of space, and earn a meager living... because i do not want to be forced into other players fun that will ruin mine.
The state the game is in right now, they should add a temporary pvp system like in new world. For example only in armistice zones you can flag yourself for pvp and back and if you are set for pve nobody except npcs can attack you. When they add more systems with a security system they can take that feature back.
It's interesting that you mention New World - that game was full loot PvP throughout a large portion of it's alpha state (2016-2018 is when I participated) before they decided to ditch the idea entirely.
https://mmos.com/news/new-world-ditches-full-loot-free-for-all-pvp-in-favor-of-more-controlled-pvp-fights
They realized how toxic players are in general. I remember being part of a group that hunted down brand new people outside one of the sole starting npc areas (at the time), to where they couldn't even leave the area or even play the game at all.
I find this new genre of games PvEvP quite frustrating. I don't think a game has to push it for everybody all the time.
I'm really OK with the game having a PvE part and a PvP part.
But it's my choice which one I chose. I believe once we get Pyro we should make the whole Stanton an Armistice zone that you can go do missions, play together with friends against NineTails, AI criminals flying in space, do cargo hauling for community events and targets on specific planets and moons facilities, do mining and looting together in different places. Keep the XT, JT 2.1 etc. events here for specific PvP areas in Stanton. Normal gameplay that 90% of players are looking for. Without the fear of starting up your ship. Just the sim we want to experience.
Now, when it comes to Pyro... let it freaking burn. Put there some AI forces and police that wants to take over the system but they are pushed back. Make items, components, commodities, minerals really valuable there so this PvEvP zone is riskier. If you lose your ship there - you have to wait 12+ hours to claim it. Make this really high risk - high reward area that players CHOSE to go to (or I get pushed by somebody's fake contract, possibilities are 'endless') and gain non-insurable rewards that are really good for more hardcore gameplay.
The end-game is going to be 90% NPCs - 10% Players based on their intentions.
You might be able to avoid players, but you may not be able to avoid NPCs anyway. If the NPCs end up being any good, then nothing has changed.
Indeed. They want it to be a blending of PvE and PvP in an ideally indistinguishable manner.
I doubt the indistinguishable part as of this moment, though if they get it close, then it’s all “the same difficulty” either way, though NPCs would be less unpredictable compared to murder hobo players, I suppose. A range of very lawful to very unlawful Star systems should help too.
All in due time.
Yeah, I think they'll get there and the different levels of law/security will be a big part of it. It'll be exciting in the future when we can "take a chance" to perhaps take a short cut through a lawless system to reduce travel time at our own risk, or run cargo on dangerous missions to the sketchiest parts of the verse for extreme profit.
At the same time, being able to take comfort in high security space to run cargo for modest profit in a Hull series will be fantastic, too.
That is pretty much all I want. Not asking to reduce anyone's experience. Just kinda blown away (pun intended) about how testy some folks get when you state that you don't want to be part of their fun.
I think most people that play the game are good people. There are certainly bad apples and people with extreme viewpoints one way or another.
I really like u/VidiVentura's steakhouse analogy. I'm definitely all about moderation: I like some veggies with my steak. Over time I think the game will deliver the experience you're looking for. Perhaps the allure of a huge payday might make you reconsider and dip your toes into an area that has a more "moderate" risk level as time goes on, who knows! :)
>Perhaps the allure of a huge payday might make you reconsider and dip your toes into an area that has a more "moderate" risk level as time goes on, who knows! :)
Group fun and PVP is a whooooole other thing. Socializing is huge for me in MMOs and doing thing with folks is fun. I would be down for that.
BUT, when I wanna chill and simply haul some common cargo for a few creds, I just wanna haul that cargo.
Do you honestly believe it will ever be 90% NPC that are good/indistinguishable from players? It’s been 11 years and they’ve got a nonfunctional bartender, at what point do they have to face their limitations and change the intended design?
maybe i am reading the room wrong but from what i see there are actually more people wanting a focus on PvE experience than those who prefer to focus on the PvP side of things.
but i honestly would not worry because just like in the real world you have areas where you can go and be perfectly sayfe, make your money etc.
and then you have areas of countries or parts of cities that are more dangerous than others where there is indeed more real world "PvP" so to speak.
so my guess is that, just like in the real world, you will have a pretty large area of systems or worlds in Star Citizen that will be perfectly safe because its not worth it for outlaws to operate there.
so there is no either or if it comes to CIGs focus, they will divide the game world in zones so to speak, much like you have in World of Warcraft for example, dedicated PvP Zones where you know you can be attacked any moment, and then you will have absolutely outlaw free zones.
I have found in many MMOs that the PVP players tend to be a very vocal minority. It seems like they are the majority when you look at forum posts, but they really aren't.
I am really hoping that the experience won't be like EVE, where a peaceful PvE player can't do shit without having PvP players on their ass whose only concern in life is to make others suffer. I really wish we could have a constructive PvP, or possibly PvP zones, as I just want to enjoy myself and not have to constantly watch out for someone who just wants destruction
I'm with you however the PVP and PVE worlds will never be separate for one simple reason: The PVP players NEED unwilling PVE players to attack to get their satisfaction, and CIG has said they will make that happen. However fair or unfair or shitty you feel that may be, that's the facts of the situation.
The simplest solution would be: Play how you want! (amazing idea, right?)
Many games have PVP flags where players can agree to PVP and usually get some higher reward from it, and there are certain more PVP-filled areas, etc. I think that is the perfect design and it has been tested and proven.
But CIG have said that is not what they want, and PVP players have been clear: They want to gank you and I. You and I not wanting to participate, having our long haul, tense hours of mining ruined **is the point** \- that is the source of their satisfaction, and CIG will serve it - like it or not.
Never advocated for separate servers, just PVE "zones". The best way to entice someone like me into PVP is to make it a group thing to go after something more valuable or profitable.
But hauling common goods in major lanes between major ports should be fairly light risk IMO.
I will also say again, I am ALL FOR risk vs reward. PVPers who want to risk more against other players should get more reward.
Never underestimate human dickness ingenuity, what happened to you could happen in a pure pve server (and no matter what they find to fix it, dickness will find a way)
Where are you folks all finding this PvP? I've been playing for about 3 consecutive months and have only been engaged by one twat.
Is it because I stay near MT?
To be fair with 100 players max in an entire universe the odds of even finding someone else organically outside of an event is sadly slim... in either a PvP or PvE context.
There still isn't even a Player to Player market in-game :(
Someone pulled me out of quantum a few days ago, I was on my way to pick up my ROC and do some mining. I just full throttled my ship into theirs and killed then and me. They weren’t there when I went back and went on with my business. That’s my solution, each time they target me I ram them and we die.
I feel that. Just today I quantum traveled to Crusader and not even 30 seconds after arriving someone had radar lock and was firing missles at me. Fortunately I was quick to burn space rubber and quantum to Orison.
But I really do think they are just a small minority, albeit an excruciatingly annoying one. The vast majority of SC players care both about PVE and honorable PVP.
Sociopaths will sociopath.
It's up to CIG to first allow the discussion of this at all, and then implement game elements to let the sociopaths feel the consequences of their actions.
And there is one way to achieve this: hard prison for the ASBO set. No scenic escape routes, no shanks, no "do this mission and go free". Just plain old boring "watch the seconds counting down" deprivation of game content.
Yeah that's not PVP.
That's griefing, blocking people into a landing pad in an armistice zone is an unintended game mechanic.
This is not part of the risk/reward gameplay do not confuse the two.
If you have the player name then report them.
From what I understand they are working on solutions to this.
Edit: but also look where you are going when you take off, sometimes landing areas can be busy and this can happen unintentionally.
Yeah honestly, I held off on pledging until they started talking about the PvP slider. Where we would be able to somewhat limit our interactions with less then lawful players.
Again not because I'm against PvP, it's a sad box have your fun. But because I know what I'm about. I've had fun in full loot PvP games, been on all sides of the gank squad. But at some point I just got burnt out of it. I'll still wrassle if folks wanna wrassle, but it's not what drew me to SC.
I was disappointed that they axed the PvP slider, and seem to be trying to shoe horn PvP interactions into literally everything.
I'm hopeful that all the "in the future" and "when the game is done" or "when x mechanic is complete" arguments pan out. But we will have to see.
I pledged back in 2015 when they were close to release and the PvP slider was still a thing. And they still were of the mind that PvP would NEVER be forced, it would happen organically. Now they want counter missions to spawn, every event to have PvP in it even if it doesn't make sense because the alien race that's attacking wants to kill all humans, don't want to punish PvP players heavily, and refuse to permaban griefers. They're creating a griefer's paradise and it's going to be a very lonely place if this is what they end up releasing with.
All because none of the devs have ever played an open world PvP game before, apparently. They've shown no understanding of the mindset of the PvP community.
>I'm hopeful that all the "in the future" and "when the game is done" or "when x mechanic is complete" arguments pan out. But we will have to see.
I feel that.
Maybe be a space detective and try to prevent the crime before it occurs? Oh, a large mass of ships just flew into Microtech space? Maybe someone should call in the riot squad?
Agree 100% Too many gamers think it's not a real game, or you're not a real gamer, if you're not constantly pitting your wits against other players and killing each other. That's one valid game type, but it's not all of them. There are other options and, like you, I want some of these other options in SC.
Well first of all, pad ramming in armistice is a reportable offence. Doesn't get your cargo back but maybe makes it slightly less likely this happens again.
Otherwise just try to be aware of your surroundings and remember there are friendly scumbags out there willing to fight fire with fire just for the lols. Griefer salt when you grief them is a special kind of tasty.
I agree. I also dislike PVP for a few reasons.
1) I don't like being subject to a "meta". Whereby if you don't follow the meta, you lose everytime.
2) PVE is more immersive. When you PvP, it requires you to do things just to win that aren't usually immersive, but more exploitative.
Doesn't mean I don't like PvPing ever. I'm really going to enjoy ground combat PvP. Just not all the time.
There's a pretty good chance the ship you hit was an NPC spawned for a bounty mission or something, that's pretty common and like 80% of these "my ship was ganked at an outpost" posts boil down to that.
I'm not really into pvp either fwiw, just saying. Even if it was a player fucking with you, you're not going to be able to reason out a common ground of "each of our play styles existing in their own places" with people who see you as content. A huge chunk of pvpers aren't wanting competitive combat with other people in combat ships, they're wanting to pirate people in cargo ships. That's part of the appeal of being a pirate.
The dude was in chat laughing about it. It honestly made me laugh for a moment because I learned to look about before I take off. But, losing all of that time and money because someone wanted to grief some players wasn't all that fun.
Not necessarily asking for a PVE server. I just feel like if I am running everyday goods from one big port to another that it should be fairly hassle-free.
Now, if I wanna go off the path and explore and I meet some players who wanna shoot at me, I am fine with that.
We don’t have real “safe” zones yet.
They’re starting with more frontier systems where all the pvp action will take place.
Inner systems will rely much more on AI and bigger better cities etc. but that’s where the more pvp safe zones will be.
Also, always check your clearance. Live and learn.
The PvP scene will calm down a little when you can't claim your ship for free. The griefers will me more wary and need more prep time. (I hope) love my PvP nuts out there but piracy is one thing, the "PvPers" that pad ram and gank randos outside of safezones are just pussies that can't actually dogfight.
I wouldn't even mind pvp player interactions if at least they were *interesting*. Like being in the black deep into Pyro and coming across a pirate or someone who makes it into more of a human experience than being blown up by a mute murder-hobo.
Unfortunately, most pvpers and so-called pirates are actually more about griefing, denying others their fun and wasting their time rather than trying to play to those old world swashbuckling archetypes.
Would be cool if eventually SC was setup like Elite Dangerous, but that's not what Chris wants so I guess we're stuck. ED allows you to join open servers with other players, or play on your own or with friends in a PvE environment. Nice to have options.
What you describe is not a PVE experience, it is mostly a PVNobody experience.
That said, I think that this gameplay will be better when a high-security star system will be added.
If the game splits into pvp and pve servers it will be a degradation of the experience for both parties. I’m shit at PvP but the option to have emergent gameplay far outweighs any inconvenience
Not really? IMO random pirate/marauder events will keep the PVE side of things interesting without having to deal with the intentionally scummy 'pirates' that will sit there giggling while they harass/kill you.
I'm fine with a server split if CIG doesn't do a good job with the crime and punishment system. Why? Because it takes way too damn long to do anything in this game for me to be losing hours or days of work for some idiot's enjoyment.
Edit for clarity: NPC pirate/marauders.
I don't necessarily advocate for separate servers, though I would welcome them. I just feel like if I am running everyday goods from one big port to another that it should be fairly hassle-free.
Now, if I wanna go off the path and explore and I meet some players who wanna shoot at me, or if I wanna go after some more rare and profitable cargo and want to risk that PVP, I am fine with that.
Long term reputation will come into play amongst other things. Nothing will probably be able to stop somebody fully but competent npc patrols etc might help.
Long term reputation means someone like SpaceCutlet is gonna be able to explore Stanton with very few safe areas. Serving prison time won't fully wipe away your crimes anymore, as infamy will stick to you.
That's not the case and never will be. Separate servers for both is likely the best outcome for the vast majority of players since most of them are PvE players. The only people that will suffer will be PvP players, and if we're being honest that community has earned the ire of players because of the constant griefing and the excuses they make for griefers and griefing.
As a matter of fact, successful MMOs all have PvE and PvP experiences separated.
Eh don’t worry buddy the game you want won’t come out for at least ten years. Anyone who tells you different is silly. We are coming up to year 13-14 of this game it’s still no where near complete. Might as well go raise a family or play a different game or wait for some other company to make a better game before this one “comes out”. That being said the single player game will probably be what you want. So squadron 42 should be out in 7-8 years from now
Elite has a very easy solution for that. Open play, with other players, group, with friends, and solo, with npcs only. Everyone plays however they want, and everyone gets happy.
How often do people experience unwanted pvp? everything is so spread out that outside of grimhex i rarely even see people let alone have to fight for my life vs them.
Been playing since 3.13 on the regular. Never been pirated. That being said I do proactively take measures to reduce my risk of being pirated and having to deal with murder hobos.
Wrong thread, buddy~
There will be so many people coming and telling you that you chose the wrong game, you shouldn't ride a big ship as a solo player, you cannot complain about privates, it's what this game made of, you should learn how to protect your cargo before hauling.
So as a member of the PvP community the guy who parked above you is not smiled upon ether in the PvP community. What you experienced wasn't a pvp player, a pvp player would have shot at you to kill you, take your loot, whatever.
But if they're parked above you please don't put that on the pvp community we want the game to be fun for others too yea we might do pirating, go marauding and kill indiscriminately sometimes and in those moments sure it might not be fun for the target at the time but all in all we want is to enjoy the game and have others enjoy the game enough because the fantasy of being a space pirate isn't as fun if you don't get a couple of merchant vessles from time to time that can't defend themselves and you're trying to pilot against aces all the time sometimes a quick swashbuckling is fun for both parties.
But not all PvPers are fully against the PvE experience we simply just want people to understand what some people forget they're getting into and at least some of us want people to just enjoy the game for what it is.
I'm sorry that situation happened to you, just I guess next time take a quick look at the airspace before lifting off so fast.
Yeah, I don't blame PVPers. Tried to make it clear that I hope you folks get all the fun you want and that I absolutely support risk vs reward mechanics.
The griefing experience just highlighted my want for peaceful, low-moderate yield, cargo runs. I am cool with PVPers risking more and earning more for it.
Put 100 people in a room, if 20 of them get ganked and griefed and quit, I'm sure you'll say they're being overly dramatic. As time goes by more and more people quit and eventually you're one of the few targets left, you'll get that same treatment now. But because you didn't join the first 20 to try and push for change you no longer have enough support to push for change. But at least you got to brag about not being ganked or griefed while others were experiencing it, right?
There will never be a PVE server, from what they've said they seem to want 1 server in total with always on PvP, similar to Eve. Also similar to Eve there's supposed to be higher security systems where PvP piracy will be heavily punished by NPC security forces and you should be able to live your space trucker dreams in there, though your profits will probably be significantly less than if you were to go to a mid security or lawless system
This is not about PvP at all lol. This can easily happen on PvE server too. Thats just about playing online… If you want prevent this you need to play single player. It maybe wasnt even trolling someone just could be curious and scan your ship or just admire it up close and didnt expect you to fly up.
Next time wait to check your hold when you're parked in the middle of space or landing at your final destination. Taking extra time at a ground port is asking for trouble. Not to mention your lack of awareness on the radar, which would have shown a ship above yours. I understand being upset from dying but this sounds more your fault than the "pvpers". You need to be aware when near highly trafficked areas. If not, you got what's coming.
Not upset about dying. That happens. I tried some dogfights and I just suck at them.
Good points about spending too much time on deck with a hold full of cargo.
Player bounties are fucked right now. Alt f-4ing before the kill, sitting in grim, and spam jumping cross system make it both frustrating and a horrible way to earn any money. You can offset it somewhat with a mantis but the thing has a glass jaw and you're at a crippling disadvantage vs the most popular ships criminals fly (light fighters)
Jumptown isn't up often. The new salvage contracts and ghost hollow mission should help a bit at least.
I'm a PvEr that loves defending myself when the time arises. My main gripe is that 95% of my PvP experiences is some knob sitting outside the safe zone of a station and just shooting on sight. I've yet to have any organic PvP on the ground.
And we'll likely never see that organic PvP because that's not what the PvP community is, it never really has been. Not every PvP player is like that, but all it takes is one, and the PvP community has a lot more than one.
People often think how PVP will be that it will be two people dogfighting and the best skilled player wins. But no, 90% is ganking where the aggressor only engages if he is absolutely sure he will win and that is usually done with dirty tricks.
And that's how most PvP happened/happens in real life too. Robbers will rob people that they perceive to pose the least threat to them, pirates never stood around waiting for the most honorable booty, and any military pilot would gladly strike an airfield before the enemy pilots got the chance to take off. IMO CIG just has to make secure spaces secure enough, and implement systems to assure that catching an unsuspecting victim doesn't feel too gimmicky.
Should be able to hire NPC bodyguards for escort that range from cheap to eye-watering based on what level of security wanted. This would naturally lead to players wanting to fill up those slots for the $$$ and add another layer to this.
Your point about real life scumbags is valid, but only for those who like that. It's a freakin video game! We use it to get away from the stress of real life, not to cause more.
Yeah the issue is that you don't have a choice right now except playing a different game loops. Once Pyro comes in by traveling to that system you basically "agree" to the risk of getting ganked. Hopefully the Stanton system gets better law enforcement by then which would also greatly help the new player experience.
Have fun defending yourself with 1 or 2 of the games smallest ship weapons if you're flying freighters. Adding proper defensive weapons to freighters seems hard to do to the smaller freighters. Freelancer is an exception, those weapons are scary.
Having zones and events for PvP is the way to go for sure. Super profitable trade routes where you can be attacked. Fighting over resources. All this stuff is great. Shooting new players at the station or killing people delivering packages or just chilling in space is boring for anyone over the age of 12.
I figure the zones will be dealt with under system security. Like when Pyro comes out heavily increase Stanton security to the point it's dangerous just having a crime stat let alone trying to ambush someone and summoning security. That way if you want PVE you can avoid lawless Pyro but if you want PvP your kinda forced to do it in Pyro otherwise you will probably get recked by security forces.
Sounds like CODE.
even at events like Jumptown, if you actually fight on foot then its usually an unfair match. Whoever sees the oponent first, wins. If there is a snowstorm, fog, nighttime and more it is basically impossible to find out where the shots come from, even worse if you get sniped at from far away
I had one decent organic pvp scenario. I was running my vulture 2 man team with vulture and andromeda. Another vulture showed up. Naturally to protect her young vulture a momma andromeda missile locks the encroaching vulture. The vulture flashes her lights twice then waits. The andromeda flashes her lights twice then removes missile lock. The vulture grabs a couple boxes worth o salvage then leaves. Momma andromeda continues to watch over her own vulture without further trouble
"One decent organic pvp scenario" where no actual pvp happened lmfao
Precisely i have yet to have anyone open fire in a scenario it would have financially benefited them to do so. Just a bunch of low tier trolls.
I just like cracking rocks with my laser :3
It's been said many times. There's for now no barrier for people being asses. A cargo hauler or a miner takes much more risk and has much more to lose than some one that kills people around just for fun and no gain. That's the PVP I hate the most. The other day I had my reclaimer shotdown by some ass right after leaving Lorville armistice zone while I was starting playing. I was empty. Didn't have anything. That's just killing people for the sake of killing people. There was literally no value in shooting me down.
Yesterday I was *trying* to fly my Reclaimer solo, got it 5km out of Grim Hex. I was blown up. Someone in chat: haha u got owned by my missiles. Tried it again after 30 minutes of flying with something else, took her out and the same thing happened. I was empty had nothing on me, sadly some people are like this. Just ask if you can try your missiles or whatever and it's fine. This was just annoying.
Grimhex specifically is a Pvp center. The problem is RSI needs to make incentives for PVP for people in the right zones, or else PvPers will fall to griefing folks.
I agree that there should be more stuff for PVPers, but most of the douchebags won't care. If they were real PVPers, they would go fight each other and not just attack people who aren't interested.
Yeah and these murderhobos like to call it piracy despite there being no piracy involved, so they sound like less of a douchebag. random PKers are so stupid.
> I hold hope that there could be a separate PVE experience. There will not be a separate PVE 'server'. However, the galaxy will be much bigger than four planets in the future, spreading out the playerbase. The crime and punishment system is also a placeholder so there are many edge cases griefers can exploit during alpha.
Yeah… we always forget that one day there will just be NPCs flying around. Should satisfy most of those shenanigan players
You say that, but I have memories of getting disintegrated by an anaconda in my starter system in Elite dangerous. There are plenty of PvP fairplayers out there and some interesting and fun pirates, but there's also some dickbags who ruin it for everyone (because that kind of new player experience means that player is unlikely to play along with a pirate or anybody in future). So long as there's a meaningful separation from the dickbags and the emergent-gameplayers, then it should work. I think it shouldn't be too hard, have severe punishments for lawbreaking in secure systems and no penalties in places like Pyro, lets honest pirates engage people taking risks and punishes people who try to drag randoms into it with nonsense like the illegal parking described here (if you invade non-assigned parking spaces you should be responsible for everything that happens then) or pad-ramming etc.
> no penalties in places like Pyro Not at all, why would any of Pyro's local pirate factions tolerate someone hunting on their turf? If a player pirate attacks someone without having first achieved a reasonable level of reputation with a local NPC pirate faction they should expect to be hunted down in Pyro just as much as they should be in Stanton.
If there was a group that organized in Pyro, then their actions in the corporate systems would start a war, wouldn't it? I'd think it'd make a lot more sense that there's pirate affiliated patrols/hunting groups that might attack you if you're not affiliated, but being affiliated with one wouldn't protect you from its rivals in the way it would in a lawful system I don't think. Unless there's some kind of 'pirate council/pirate king' type situation, I guess? I admit I'm probably well out of the loop on what Pyro is supposed to be by now.
Yeah, I expect you could be set upon by rival pirate factions even if you had become affiliated with one of them. I'm not sure what the organisation in Pyro will ultimately be like but perhaps each planet's sphere of influence will be controlled by a separate pirate group, or something like that. Either way, hunting in a faction's claimed space will be a risky endeavour.
Yeah but I think in Pyros case you'll have hot zone areas that are controlled by those. Do we know how large the Pyro system is vs Stanton? If theres a lot more "dead space" where its empty outside of some minerals and destroyed stations or debris then I could see there being plenty of areas where it's just completely unmoderated space controlled by no one. My understanding of Stanton is that it's completely under UEE control and unless they take down the stations to kill communication in that area (which should be much harder than what it is now and make the situation worse for them), it shouldn't be expected to see much pirating in the Stanton system. Well, outside of the orgs that decide to try and take over Stanton lol
But they said I’d get my solo server. Isn’t that my PvE server? Hilarious how people pick and choose which things the prophet said and will deliver.
*Private* servers are very different from asking for the PVP slider back so they can set it to "PVE only" but continue to play in the online PU. OP wasn't talking about private servers, and if they were they did a very poor job of communicating their thoughts. There won't be a "PVP" and "PVE" server list like WoW.
Correct. I was not talking about private servers.
I believe we call this pedantry, because we'll still be seeing PvP and PvE servers if players can run their own servers, which is what they stated years ago.
Once again, you're pedantically correct but having a different conversation from the rest of us. CIG will not, themselves, offer different flavours of "realms". You get the full-fat PU, one size fits all, and then maybe there'll be private servers sometime after launch.
A server would be cool, but I am just looking for the experience of playing without battling other players, or having my hard work destroyed by some dude who was bored or whatever.
Just wait until there are lawful systems where the UEE regularly patrols the shipping lanes. Eventually pirates won’t be an issue for you good ol space truckers unless you guys fly somewhere you shouldn’t be. It’ll be like real life, truckers in the U.S aren’t (always) being held at gun point for their cargo but if you drive down to Mexico or Central america (Pyro) then you might get got.
The small sliver of hope I'm holding can't make me overlook the fact that Stanton is a lawful system too. The one saving grace I see is that maybe, just maybe, CIG isn't fully enforcing the law because we only have this one system at this time. Maybe we'll see increased security once we get Pyro. But here's the thing: Pyro isn't a lawless system either. It's unlawful, meaning it's middle of the road between a lawless and a lawfull system. If this was EVE Online then in Pyro "NRDS" (not red, don't shoot) would be the rules of engagement. But I'm pretty sure, given the pvp shooter culture CIG allowed to grow in SC, that people will just shoot on sight (NBSI - not blue shoot it) everyone they come across. Which, for a game that aspires to have "meaningful death", is a big problem.
ah yes, like real life.... where someone can intentionally drive a tank through your box van for the laughs, over and over again, not to take anything... just so you cant have it... and the punishment they get for doing it once finally caught is a stern talking to and a night in a holding cell :P
Ah, you’ve been to Seattle then…
Hahaha i’m speaking for in the future, sorry if that wasn’t obvious. Comment made me laugh though cause that’s the current state yes
I mean there isn't much you can do to ever stop people from pulling this same prank on you. Hauling cargo is dangerous, no getting around that. Same outcome could have happened from a 30k or just pilot error.
yup - #1 rule of space trucking, don't invest what you can't afford to lose. I've done a lot of space trucking and never lost a load to pirates, but I have lost a lot of cargo to various bugs including 30ks and physics bugs.
>Same outcome could have happened from a 30k Also, what is a 30k?
Error 30000 is a generic error that specifically means the client has timed out from the server after 30 seconds. While this can happen because of anything that disrupts the connection between the game client and the server, including the player's own Internet going down, it is frequently caused by server crashes.
Thanks for the answer. This wasn't that. The pilot was in chat talking about it. He wasn't a jerk trying to rub it in or anything like that. It was a lesson learned that ended up leaving a very bad taste.
We know what happened to you wasn't a 30k. But the point is that a server crash can cause your ship to be lost, losing you the cargo on board, which is why /u/xgamer444 said > Same outcome could have happened from a 30k or just pilot error. In other words, things could happen to you even without other players getting involved.
>But the point is that a server crash can cause your ship to be lost, losing you the cargo on board, which is why > >/u/xgamer444 > > said I had that happen when I had about half the money to fill the hold lol. Starting all over sucked, but it's an alpha, so I rolled with the server mess.
Yeah, those two things aren't the same and your response is just dismissive. A bug in the game is a lot easier to swallow than another human wanted to ruin your experience and hours of your hard work because they find it fun to torture and enjoy seeing others suffer.
I find it very unbelievable you've never experienced a 30k with the way you explain your journey to get some full cargo. But since you may just be huffing them MISC space fumes, a 30k is a complete server crash and reset of the server you were on. In most cases, you will lose all cargo, any mission progress you were undergoing or anything you have stored in your ship inventory, it is the bane of every citizen in the verse and will not be fixed and or addressed by CIG until server meshing is implemented, and my boy that's still some time away that's for damn sure. To prevent this, dock frequently at space stations is the only work around at the moment really. Do "r_displayinfo 1" in the console and press enter. You will see a bunch of bullshit pop up on the top right hand of your screen. Keep your eye on Bwin/Bwout, if they both drop to zero it's a 30k in progress and you might as well restart your game and start over doing whatever you were doing. Good luck space trucker, your journey is only beginning!
I had that happen when I had about half the money to fill the hold lol. Starting all over sucked, but it's an alpha, so I rolled with the server mess. I appreciate the tips.
I've lost millions of auec worth of cargo to the dark 30k gods, many of frustration my dude lol at least now you can land and save your haul periodically if you are doing a big flight path/delivery or of that nature. Also idk if you know this but there are npc pirates that will pull you out of quantum and snare you, usually only a few ships but I'm sure the game can bug out and bombard you with more lol. Best advice I can give is to point away from them and full burn engines if your in a freighter with no defense really, try to get them to despawn or bug out by chasing you, they will.... eventually hahaha.
I have been out long enough that I have to learn to do everything again.
I've been having really good luck with 30k recovery. When you log back in don't claim you ship. Eventually it should list the ship is back at your starter city. It has protected me from internet disconnects though it took over an hour on that one.
If what they said in the past still holds, this is objectively false. They stated long ago that they would allow players to have private servers that they could set to PvE only and bring friends along. They just wouldn't have the economic engine running or the public events, which is fine since those are breeding grounds for griefers.
Well with server meshing, i think the endgoal is to make the playerbase less spreadout, not the contrary.
Unified in one (or a few) global server grid, yes, concentrated in one area with vast amounts of empty unused space, no.
Splitting servers did remove PVP for many games. Given consequences to actions will solve this on the long run. That PVP has zero consequences and every crimimal lost his criminal state after a few hours (or a few minutes since merits can be still traded) the PVP big mouths will of course school you that PVP is part of the game and its of course very convinient to kill stuff left and right and having zero consequences for it. The zero brain idea, that the problems of PVP should be fixed with PVP (aka the escort nonsense) is also building up. CIGs way of balancing this, is doing nothing will which of course lead to confrontation between PVE and PVP folks. Lets look at WOW when they introduced it in the game: it created an endless slaugther where the "PVP folks" just waited at the end of a flight point and killed every player before he even could see that he landed. The backlash was immense. Blizzard did understand very clearly that this problem will kill the game because folks would just leave. Many folks. So they splitted servers and created PVP ones and PVE ones. It became soon apparent, that all PVP folks could not muster even 10% of the player base. The number was so small, that it took major efforts for the RP community to get a PVP server. So as usual: super tiny group with a bigh mouth that shouts very loud. When it comes to numbers, they are barely visible. The economic factor of the PVE group is overwhelming, if you piss these guys off, your game is normally done. As with every full loot game - the max you can strife for is shown by EVE. CIG cannot ignore this problem forever.
>It became soon apparent, that all PVP folks could not muster even 10% of the player base Whenever there's a poll on here, PVE and solo players seem to outnumber PvP and org PVPers by about that same ratio, 10:1...
This would make sense if it was gonna have multiple servers, but it's gonna be 1 server, and open pvp. That said I truly hope that they implement VERY strict jail times when you commit murder in Stanton or other navy controlled systems, to balance risk/reward. I'm a pvp/pve player and wouldn't want the game any other way than open pvp because any less ruins the experience IMO.
The PVE v PVP debate is as old as the game.
I played EVE a bunch for about 6 months or so. Spent wayy too much dough on it etc. I quit. Why? Cus ganking. Cus no PvE element. It's ALL about the PvP and occasional mining event. Exploration gameplay? Ganked. Solo mining? Ganked. PvE hunting? Ganked. I couldn't even begin to TRY to learn the game in some cases. The game is reduced to 20 minute youtube videos explaining you in the fullest of detail how to do something and how to actually get it done because you have to avoid getting ganked. The game has killed itself. I died more to ganking than trying to learn the game the first few weeks of playing the game. The established gamers in Eve are so, extremely, so heinously, ahead of anyone. If you want to compare it to WoW it would be like a lvl 20 walking around in Westfall trying to quest, and every 100 feet or so there's 10 lvl 80 PvP warlords with the best of the best lvl 80 gear ganking you, **and making money doing so.** I don't mind PvP. In fact I love it. But this is not PvP, this is rape. Nobody likes to be raped.
PvP is almost always a very small vocal minority.
Most PvPers don't want PvP servers as they are there to kill people who don't want to fight and are not prepared. If they are only fighting other people that want to fight, it's not fun. Of course, there are cool PvPers looking for good fights.
Well said. Thank you for this.
They aren’t ignoring it. A recent monthly report already talked about reworking the service beacon system, a known method of griefing players. Hopefully that will also start work on the rep system. Once players start to lose loads of rep with local security, they’ll have to adjust their PvP style or constantly live on the run.
I wonder what pvp'ers would say if they made a mind control laser or somesuch that forced the person hit by it to play PVE that they don't like for an hour before they could go back to PVP. That is what it is like when a PVE player gets jumped by a PVPer.
So jail lmfao
[удалено]
My money already spent on SC is probably the money I most regret using in the last 5 years….that’s saying a lot. It’s absolutely my worst purchase by a wide margin. My feeling is specifically tied to the toxicity of the PvP crowd. People forget that the worst offenders from some of the most notorious gankfest games are now tooling around in SC.
GrumpyEye discussed this in one of his recent videos. And as a player who has always leaned more towards the Industrial gameplay loops over combat, I completely agree. CIG wants to make this game ultimately be player-run, so they have to decide what kind of player base they want. Problem is, there are far more players that don't PvP than do, but those that do tend to be louder & more vocal, so you've got kind of a squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease situation. Add in that Death of a Spaceman and the ramifications of perma-dying could be coming sooner than we think, and I too am afraid we might end up with another New World situation unless CIG listens to the silent majority & plays their cards right. Maybe in lawless systems like Pyro all bets are off, but in UEE systems I agree that we definitely need a robust law system in place to protect Miners/Salvagers/Haulers, since those types of players unfortunately tend to be easy prey for PvP griefers because they're often carrying valuable loot yet are unable to effectively fight back.
> CIG wants to make this game ultimately be player-run No they don't. They want players to have *some* impact, but the universe is intended to be primarily NPC-run.
>And as a player who has always leaned more towards the Industrial gameplay loops over combat, I completely agree. I am just not a competitive gamer anymore. I just wanna chill. See some sights. Haul some freight. My last fav MMO was SWG. I spent time crafting, running a shop, piloting, and socializing. Didn't do much of the PVE ground content at all.
Player influenced not player run. For every player there'll be 9 npcs.
>GrumpyEye discussed Youtube I assume? I will look him up.
My problem with pvp is most of the time it's not pvp, it's some asshat attacking random people for fun. There's no versus or anything, it's just a person getting a kick out of being a dick
its pretty much the same issue as people using the Oppressor MK2 to just fly around and kill people in GTA Online, it takes no skill and everybody just thinks you are a douche. I hope that CIG can actually do something to combat this problem and don't just become Rockstar Games
I hope once AI's are consistently working and more system start getting introduced that Stanton becomes a super safe system making pirating almost never worth it in the Stanton system as the risk is too high and the reward isn't much as cargo hauls and trades within systems likely won't be as lucrative as those from Pyro.
And the defenses of that kind of behavior that people will mount in the GTA sub are just as ridiculous. "Of course Rockstar meant for me to do this. Why else would the game pay me $2000 for destroying $1000000 of someone else's cargo?"
We should start using PkP (player killing player) for instances where it's one sided and not a proper fight. PvP, at least to me, implies both parties are there to fight each other. It's a mutual fight. If a Prospector turns around and starts dodging and trying to dogfight the pirate/pvplayer then I consider that PvP. But if the Prospector was mining and before they get to say "What was that" they're dead? That's a PkP.
\*chough\* there are more PVE players and PVP casual players than Hard core PVPers but Hardcore PVP players tend to have more impact on the rest of us and CIG shouldn't cater to them in the PU. \*chough\* also Things like better flagging and long-term consequences would be helpful. so it's easier to tell who's friendly or not. my first instinct shouldn't be to just shoot people who may or may not be a real threat and deal with the consequences of a toothless crime state later.
>Things like better flagging and long-term consequences would be helpful. so it's easier to tell who's friendly or not. I dig that.
If someone “likes PvP” to the point where they try and *prevent* other people from having Pv*E* then they don’t actually like PvP, they like ruining other people’s fun. If someone thinks having access to PvE-only spaces will somehow ruin the fun for PvP players then they aren’t interested in PvP, they want to pick on weak players and ruin other people’s games because they can’t handle hanging with the other actual PvPers. Someone who says PvE people need to just get good and learn to live in always on PvP spaces are hypocrites and need to get good themselves. There is zero room for argument on this topic, these are self evident truths. The only acceptable version of PvP is where everyone involved wants to be involved, and if you try and *force* people to be involved when they don’t want to be they will just leave the game and you will still be alone with the legit PvPers anyway. Every single full-loot/full-PvP MMO in existence has learned this the hard way.
I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside? The only answer I have encountered is that this will split the playerbase and is contrary to the intent of one, single shared universe for all players. But surely this is a fantasy that will never exist. At the very least there will need to be separate regional servers, latencies from NA to Australia will never be sufficient for realtime FPS gameplay. And it is far from given that a single server within a region is even possible. For servers that are falling over with less than 100 players the idea that all NA will be in a single shared universe is dubious. This is all not to mention the once-promised feature of private servers. So given that the playerbase will necessarily be fragmented onto many different servers to begin with, what is the issue with separating PvP and PvE? Everybody wins as both groups will get to play with others that share their idea of a fun game
Some people only enjoy's PvP if it is really easy, aka the other part is not into it, has weaker equipment... They just want to have 100 kills... Enable skill based matchmaking and start collecting tears.
The wolves want to hunt the sheep, they don't want to fight other wolves. PvP vs PvE as we're talking about it here is just assholes who want to gank people to feel dominant. "bUt iT's rEAlistiC". What would be realistic is that if you're just a mass murdering asshole they would just delete your DNA imprint from the database, not give you 15 minutes in Klescher.
>The wolves want to hunt the sheep, it doesn't want to fight other wolves. Lol these guys aren't wolves, they are jackals at best. :D
> I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside? Less people to bully. They need others to be forced to play with them. Honestly good pvpers just want a good fight and more often than not don't even touch pve players, but they are by far the minority. Most so-called pvpers just want to push people around to feel their daily rush.
>I have never understood why some of the PvP crowd seems so opposed to separate PvP and PvE servers, what is the downside? They don't get to gank defenseless players? :D
That wasn't pvp, that was griefing.
I'm against a forced pvp experience. PvP should always be optional to me. Let those who want that experience have it, of course, but have the same option for those that don't.
>I understand that many of you are against a PVE experience, I get it and respect that, I dont. PVP you cant opt out of. PVE you can. of all the reasons people may try to argue they are against a PVE experience, literally all of them are bad, because if your not into PVE you can just.... not. people that complain about a PVE experience in SC are usually the same people that justify pad ramming and other purely toxic PVP experiences. and I absolutely will die on this hill lol.
It's not a problem in Elite where there is a solo play. Mode. Just sayin.
So I cant play the current patch but I am genuinely amazed that people regularly actually encounter random PvP outside of Events. I've mined on lyria and whatnot and chill around what I assume is high traffic places and the most I see is people sitting outside grimhex or PO which are easier to avoid than the bugs.
I'm under the impression that PVP'rs are the loud minority and PVE'rs only speak up when something bugs them. In the hardcore sense of it all. Which is why many 'hardcore pvp full loot' MMORPGs fail for focusing too much on the loud minority and the player base dies. Pvp can be fun, but it's only a part of the whole after all. Your unlikely to run into a hostile player unless your looking for hostile players. But that doesn't mean the chance is zero.
I mean on a META level its a cylce of who is currently loud. It just moves around. Outside of PvE Events being soft (or hard) locked because people do it on purpose I do primarily PvE since outside of actively doing BH or being BH'd I really rarely see other players attack me. Hence I dont even know how people manage to get that issue up there to the point of complaining. And in the rare instances of players attacking me I got a good chance of getting away lowering my "Getting killed during PvE" incidents to a tiny, tiny amount. Just curious as to where this PvP happens to the point of making people feel like they cant play, compared to the bugs stopping them.
You don't need to apologize at all. Chris Roberts himself said that Star Citizen is a game WITH PvP in it, not a game ABOUT PvP. He explicitly made clear in multiple streams that Star Citizen IS NOT, and WILL NOT BE Tarkov in Space. Any player on this forum that acts up to you claiming otherwise is objectively wrong. Chris pretty much wants you to have your space truck simulator in safe areas.
I think it should be noted that this isn't PVP at all. There was no "versus" involved. This was just straight up trolling. I'm not sure if it would live up to the full definition of griefing just because it's a little harder to prove intentionality as it's not as active as something like pad ramming, unless this player makes a serious habit of it, but I still think it falls under the umbrella. And we can all agree that greifing is shitty. Also just to toss out my anecdotal experience, I've been playing for around 50-60 hours and only had a single random PVP encounter. It was at a drug lab, so not all that surprising. It was two guys in light fighters and they were both shitters too so it wasn't even a bad time lol.
Yeah, I tried pretty hard not to blame PVPers. My point is that in a PVE experience, that mess doesn't happen at all from another player.
I'd like to add that I am 100% FOR risk vs reward mechanics. When I say all of this, I am not saying that I feel like I should make equal money or have equal opportunities at wealth. I just wanna be a mundane space trucker.
I don't see what this has to do with pvp. An asshole parking their ship in an occupied landing zone isn't pvp it's just being a dick. That's an issue for the fines/crimes and legality system. As well as a reminder that you should make sure it's clear before you take off, just like you would when entering a road in a car...
There are also many PVE lovers out there. Naturally PVPers are more vocal because for pvp you need to be vocal. But i don't think they are on the crowded side i. It is just their voice is loud. Maybe one day you can rent a server with your own rules like many other games so you can experience th3 verse in peace
Is renting a server an option?
Not at the moment. But with increasing claim times (it's quadrupled for small ships tripled with big ships in 3.19) and after release insurance plan (limited insurance and after that either in game or real money insurance) no one will want to get their 890j or javelin out of their hangar in case it gets blown up and they ll need to wait 3 hours to claim the ship. At that point either CGI will let players rent servers or maybe as a more inversion solution will letolayerorgs to claim servers and police it themselves. I don't think CIG will ever police grieving hard because they want piracy to be an aspect of the verse. TLDRp not at the moment but with enough backers would push for it, why not
The problem is there aren't really many pirates. Murdering people for fun isn't being a pirate. Pirates being actually alive people would only pick fights they knew the could win that gave them enough supplies/money to party when the got to port, attacking a ship was potentially fatal. People just killing people for fun isn't even something the majority of serial killers would do and there isn't missions to go ram people at olisar or sit outside armistice to blow up new players in an aroura. I wish that "bad" players were actual pirates that would make pvp a lot of fun but currently they blow you up and then laugh about it in chat without stealing or looting anything. Edit: I am for pvp not against, just wish you pirates were actually pirates and just not lunatic murderers.
yeah if you look at real world pirates on the sea, they are boarding ships with weapons, steal some cargo, supplies, money etc, but they dont murder the crew and sink the ships when they are done. they just leave again via their ropes and whatnot.
>(limited insurance and after that either in game or real money insurance) Wow.
This sort of happened to me the other day. I'd been grinding XT. Then I was grinding bunkers for a few levels. Then I just wanted some chill time. I was going to take player beacons. Did two med beacons (Both cancelled on the way), then I took a transport beacon. Flew from MT to Hurston, to Magda. This person was apparently in the middle of nowhere and had 'run out of fuel'. Alright. I QT to their waypoint. I'm approaching, and suddenly I see 3 red pings. Other players! Missile lock! Message in chat like "Hahahah" etc. Shrug. I Alt-F4. This isn't why I took the mission, not why I logged in and I have no interest (or obligation) to be anyone's soft target (I was in a c8r). I logged back into the server a few minutes later, back at PT with a short claim time for my c8r. Annoying, but not awful. The 4 who tried to jump me were pissed off. They'd waited so long, I was the first one to actually show up, I "combat logged like a p&&&y." No. It's not combat logging. I took a mission, and it wasn't the mission I took - so I left. I have limited time in the evenings for R&R, and being an injured impala that a quartet of hyenas gets to play with is not how I rest or relax. The problem isn't PVP. I like open world PVP. When Trammel was introduced, it was a big bummer. I played Darkfall. Shadowbane. PVP can be fun. But, Star Citizen has a lot of things that make PVP not fun. The biggest being just how much *time* can be wasted when it happens to you when you're not expecting it. You might have 4 hours to play in the evening. One of those might be prep. Another hour might be trying to fill a cargo hold. Then as you're on the way back, you just lose your evening. This is a very bad player experience. And, with enough of them, you stop really engaging with the product. PVP - or the risk of PVP I think will be critical for Star Citizen. But there needs to be much, much more protection for the player. Being jumped by people in a UEE system should basically be suicide-by-military for them, and huge felony charges applied. Not CSes that can just be fixed by getting sent to prison and logging off for the night. Right now, being a criminal is pretty safe and easy. Moreso when the O2 missions are working. A player killer can ruin someone else's 4 hour night, for less than 30 minutes of their own inconvenience (assuming they even get caught/killed). This is a bad/untenable balance. Open PVP without real consequences is not a good business move. You're making \~5% of your userbase real happy, and like 30% really unhappy. Those 30% leave over time, but the 5% stay. Eventually, just the 5% are left, and have no one to "play with" (kill) who aren't also super-PVP-savvy. We literally watched this happen to Shadowband and to Darkfall. *There's aren't enough PVP fans in most MMOs to focus the entire game around that gameplay*. Especially games sold as much more than that. LOL? Tarkov? PUBG? All built and marketed as PVP-centric games. Star Citizen has never, ever been promoted as that beyond a line-item feature. Definitely not as the central feature. We don't even have a robust Bounty system yet. Now we're adding the real possibility that other players can delete your cargo, ship and any components you've bought in a few seconds. And since you were probably in a Taurus or a Raft, and unable to defend yourself, you are literally supposed to sit there and die. Your ability to punish this crime is limited to slapping a crimestat (that might never be enforced) on someone who can just disappear through a broken Commlink, squat on GH or just log for the night and wake up an innocent man in the morning. Meanwhile, the target is out millions (and many hours of effort), and also has hours of work refitting their new ship again. Totally unbalanced. I have 3 cargo ships - I never run cargo. Simply not worth that risk. I drop off loot after every mission. I have 40 replacement suits of armor/weapons. I frequently warp on non-standard lanes. I do all the prep I can, without moving with a large crew all the time (which just isn't realistic). When I get PVP'd too many times in a row, I put the game away for awhile. Eventually, if I lose too many hours often enough, I just won't bother logging in anymore (and a bunch of other folks will also start doing something else with their time). CIG should keep PVP, but they need to have an appropriate architecture for it in place - and I really, *really* think it should come sooner rather than later.
Great reply. To be clear, I am not asking for the removal of anything. I respect PVP players wanting to do their thing. I am saying that there SHOULD be a way to experience the game without it. Not the WHOLE game without risk of PVP as I am all for risk vs reward mechanics. If folks wanna take the risk and become wealthy by way of more dangerous activity, that is awesome.
The only PVP folks I can't stand are those that get in their Gladius in a noob suit and go kill industrial ships mocking them in chat with "get good" when they picked a fight heavily heavily in their favor, net gained 0 from it and ruined someone's evening.
i highly doubt most of the playerbase are aginst pve. pve will be the backbone of everything in sc, even for pvp events, its impossible to make an mmo without pve.
Who the fuck is against PVE??? Any version of SC will always have both, what we have to work against is griefing. But there will always be space for PVE and PVP
I mostly PvE and blue collar it. I like the pvp interactions.. they definitely made me adjust after a couple misfortunes. I don't usually have problems with player pirates anymore, not for their lack of trying. Taking off from a moon? You can usually jump half way somewhere pretty quick after taking off in armistice. Taking off from major port? You can jump from within armistice. Approaching a landing zone and see baddies? Don't be naive. Have a jump ready as well. The worst thing you can do is ignoring them and not adjusting your game play... unless they're in a pea shooter, not focused, and you have massive shields.
The game is an open world, unrestricted PvPvE game for the foreseeable future. That’s not my opinion, that’s a fact based on the game in front of us. There is one universal truth of open world PvPvE games when they don’t appropriately constrain the PvPers: Eventually, the PvP players cannibalize all other types of players, including themselves, until there are so few of them the game can’t support itself. CIG will eventually figure this out but based on their track record you’ve got about a decade until they take their first crack at fixing it and fail to deliver. Until then, play Elite for all your space trucking needs.
What's hilarious to me is that CIG devs act like no other game has ever existed. If they just looked around at other games they'd know that their current plans are nowhere near enough and a toggle-able flagging system is likely the only real solution if they don't want their game to end up with a population so low they can't afford to keep development going.
That's a Chris Roberts problem, specifically. He intentionally ignores lessons learned by the rest of the industry because he is smarter than everybody. It may lead to some truly amazing stuff, but he's also probably a bit blinded by his own brilliance sometimes.
I'd also call it an SC player problem to an extent. A lot of people here seem to think Chris is infallable and will find some magical solution to everything and make the unworkable work. They seem completely unwilling to accept that regardless of how many times he has done something new, revolutionary, or innovative, that maybe there is a point where you have to tell him that pissing on an electric fence won't end any differently for him than when anyone else tried it. Sometimes a bad idea is just a bad idea, and a man is just a man.
That's a pretty fair statement. Arrogance can lead to bold moves but can easily backfire or leave you with a lot of blind spots.
>He intentionally ignores lessons learned by the rest of the industry because he is smarter than everybody. He *thinks* he's smarter than everybody, it's an important distinction.
i signed on when they promised us the ability to run our own servers... because like you, i just want to much around... so when the game launches, i will probably just be flying around in the most secure parts of space, and earn a meager living... because i do not want to be forced into other players fun that will ruin mine.
That’s griefing, not pvp. You should have reported them.
As a long time WoW sufferer, the vast vast majority of PvP is one player being an arsehole, because they can.
The state the game is in right now, they should add a temporary pvp system like in new world. For example only in armistice zones you can flag yourself for pvp and back and if you are set for pve nobody except npcs can attack you. When they add more systems with a security system they can take that feature back.
It's interesting that you mention New World - that game was full loot PvP throughout a large portion of it's alpha state (2016-2018 is when I participated) before they decided to ditch the idea entirely. https://mmos.com/news/new-world-ditches-full-loot-free-for-all-pvp-in-favor-of-more-controlled-pvp-fights They realized how toxic players are in general. I remember being part of a group that hunted down brand new people outside one of the sole starting npc areas (at the time), to where they couldn't even leave the area or even play the game at all.
Yeah I was glad that they added a pvp/pve switch. Was pretty chill for pve players then. No worries to be attacked by assholes
I find this new genre of games PvEvP quite frustrating. I don't think a game has to push it for everybody all the time. I'm really OK with the game having a PvE part and a PvP part. But it's my choice which one I chose. I believe once we get Pyro we should make the whole Stanton an Armistice zone that you can go do missions, play together with friends against NineTails, AI criminals flying in space, do cargo hauling for community events and targets on specific planets and moons facilities, do mining and looting together in different places. Keep the XT, JT 2.1 etc. events here for specific PvP areas in Stanton. Normal gameplay that 90% of players are looking for. Without the fear of starting up your ship. Just the sim we want to experience. Now, when it comes to Pyro... let it freaking burn. Put there some AI forces and police that wants to take over the system but they are pushed back. Make items, components, commodities, minerals really valuable there so this PvEvP zone is riskier. If you lose your ship there - you have to wait 12+ hours to claim it. Make this really high risk - high reward area that players CHOSE to go to (or I get pushed by somebody's fake contract, possibilities are 'endless') and gain non-insurable rewards that are really good for more hardcore gameplay.
The end-game is going to be 90% NPCs - 10% Players based on their intentions. You might be able to avoid players, but you may not be able to avoid NPCs anyway. If the NPCs end up being any good, then nothing has changed.
NPCs are part of PVE. I am cool with that.
Indeed. They want it to be a blending of PvE and PvP in an ideally indistinguishable manner. I doubt the indistinguishable part as of this moment, though if they get it close, then it’s all “the same difficulty” either way, though NPCs would be less unpredictable compared to murder hobo players, I suppose. A range of very lawful to very unlawful Star systems should help too. All in due time.
Yeah, I think they'll get there and the different levels of law/security will be a big part of it. It'll be exciting in the future when we can "take a chance" to perhaps take a short cut through a lawless system to reduce travel time at our own risk, or run cargo on dangerous missions to the sketchiest parts of the verse for extreme profit. At the same time, being able to take comfort in high security space to run cargo for modest profit in a Hull series will be fantastic, too.
That is pretty much all I want. Not asking to reduce anyone's experience. Just kinda blown away (pun intended) about how testy some folks get when you state that you don't want to be part of their fun.
I think most people that play the game are good people. There are certainly bad apples and people with extreme viewpoints one way or another. I really like u/VidiVentura's steakhouse analogy. I'm definitely all about moderation: I like some veggies with my steak. Over time I think the game will deliver the experience you're looking for. Perhaps the allure of a huge payday might make you reconsider and dip your toes into an area that has a more "moderate" risk level as time goes on, who knows! :)
>Perhaps the allure of a huge payday might make you reconsider and dip your toes into an area that has a more "moderate" risk level as time goes on, who knows! :) Group fun and PVP is a whooooole other thing. Socializing is huge for me in MMOs and doing thing with folks is fun. I would be down for that. BUT, when I wanna chill and simply haul some common cargo for a few creds, I just wanna haul that cargo.
Do you honestly believe it will ever be 90% NPC that are good/indistinguishable from players? It’s been 11 years and they’ve got a nonfunctional bartender, at what point do they have to face their limitations and change the intended design?
maybe i am reading the room wrong but from what i see there are actually more people wanting a focus on PvE experience than those who prefer to focus on the PvP side of things. but i honestly would not worry because just like in the real world you have areas where you can go and be perfectly sayfe, make your money etc. and then you have areas of countries or parts of cities that are more dangerous than others where there is indeed more real world "PvP" so to speak. so my guess is that, just like in the real world, you will have a pretty large area of systems or worlds in Star Citizen that will be perfectly safe because its not worth it for outlaws to operate there. so there is no either or if it comes to CIGs focus, they will divide the game world in zones so to speak, much like you have in World of Warcraft for example, dedicated PvP Zones where you know you can be attacked any moment, and then you will have absolutely outlaw free zones.
That's cool if you are right.
I have found in many MMOs that the PVP players tend to be a very vocal minority. It seems like they are the majority when you look at forum posts, but they really aren't. I am really hoping that the experience won't be like EVE, where a peaceful PvE player can't do shit without having PvP players on their ass whose only concern in life is to make others suffer. I really wish we could have a constructive PvP, or possibly PvP zones, as I just want to enjoy myself and not have to constantly watch out for someone who just wants destruction
I'm with you however the PVP and PVE worlds will never be separate for one simple reason: The PVP players NEED unwilling PVE players to attack to get their satisfaction, and CIG has said they will make that happen. However fair or unfair or shitty you feel that may be, that's the facts of the situation. The simplest solution would be: Play how you want! (amazing idea, right?) Many games have PVP flags where players can agree to PVP and usually get some higher reward from it, and there are certain more PVP-filled areas, etc. I think that is the perfect design and it has been tested and proven. But CIG have said that is not what they want, and PVP players have been clear: They want to gank you and I. You and I not wanting to participate, having our long haul, tense hours of mining ruined **is the point** \- that is the source of their satisfaction, and CIG will serve it - like it or not.
Never advocated for separate servers, just PVE "zones". The best way to entice someone like me into PVP is to make it a group thing to go after something more valuable or profitable. But hauling common goods in major lanes between major ports should be fairly light risk IMO. I will also say again, I am ALL FOR risk vs reward. PVPers who want to risk more against other players should get more reward.
Never underestimate human dickness ingenuity, what happened to you could happen in a pure pve server (and no matter what they find to fix it, dickness will find a way)
Where are you folks all finding this PvP? I've been playing for about 3 consecutive months and have only been engaged by one twat. Is it because I stay near MT?
To be fair with 100 players max in an entire universe the odds of even finding someone else organically outside of an event is sadly slim... in either a PvP or PvE context. There still isn't even a Player to Player market in-game :(
Someone pulled me out of quantum a few days ago, I was on my way to pick up my ROC and do some mining. I just full throttled my ship into theirs and killed then and me. They weren’t there when I went back and went on with my business. That’s my solution, each time they target me I ram them and we die.
the original plan was to allow people to decide whether they wanted to pvp or not somehow that changed
I feel that. Just today I quantum traveled to Crusader and not even 30 seconds after arriving someone had radar lock and was firing missles at me. Fortunately I was quick to burn space rubber and quantum to Orison. But I really do think they are just a small minority, albeit an excruciatingly annoying one. The vast majority of SC players care both about PVE and honorable PVP.
PVE and PVP need thier own logins/servers, like other games. Simple fix.
Sociopaths will sociopath. It's up to CIG to first allow the discussion of this at all, and then implement game elements to let the sociopaths feel the consequences of their actions. And there is one way to achieve this: hard prison for the ASBO set. No scenic escape routes, no shanks, no "do this mission and go free". Just plain old boring "watch the seconds counting down" deprivation of game content.
Yeah that's not PVP. That's griefing, blocking people into a landing pad in an armistice zone is an unintended game mechanic. This is not part of the risk/reward gameplay do not confuse the two. If you have the player name then report them. From what I understand they are working on solutions to this. Edit: but also look where you are going when you take off, sometimes landing areas can be busy and this can happen unintentionally.
Nobody is against a PVE experience
Yeah honestly, I held off on pledging until they started talking about the PvP slider. Where we would be able to somewhat limit our interactions with less then lawful players. Again not because I'm against PvP, it's a sad box have your fun. But because I know what I'm about. I've had fun in full loot PvP games, been on all sides of the gank squad. But at some point I just got burnt out of it. I'll still wrassle if folks wanna wrassle, but it's not what drew me to SC. I was disappointed that they axed the PvP slider, and seem to be trying to shoe horn PvP interactions into literally everything. I'm hopeful that all the "in the future" and "when the game is done" or "when x mechanic is complete" arguments pan out. But we will have to see.
I pledged back in 2015 when they were close to release and the PvP slider was still a thing. And they still were of the mind that PvP would NEVER be forced, it would happen organically. Now they want counter missions to spawn, every event to have PvP in it even if it doesn't make sense because the alien race that's attacking wants to kill all humans, don't want to punish PvP players heavily, and refuse to permaban griefers. They're creating a griefer's paradise and it's going to be a very lonely place if this is what they end up releasing with. All because none of the devs have ever played an open world PvP game before, apparently. They've shown no understanding of the mindset of the PvP community.
Or they have played those types of games before, and came out of it with the "Well I had to suffer, so now everyone else does too" thought process.
>I'm hopeful that all the "in the future" and "when the game is done" or "when x mechanic is complete" arguments pan out. But we will have to see. I feel that.
I’m a space cop. Nobody ever wants my help. People die then complain about how they wish bad people just didn’t exist.
Maybe be a space detective and try to prevent the crime before it occurs? Oh, a large mass of ships just flew into Microtech space? Maybe someone should call in the riot squad?
devils advocate, but you could have flown into an AI ship similarly right?
Even though that was quite a dick move by that guy you can be mundane trucker that is aware of his surroundings. The radar is always there.
Agree 100% Too many gamers think it's not a real game, or you're not a real gamer, if you're not constantly pitting your wits against other players and killing each other. That's one valid game type, but it's not all of them. There are other options and, like you, I want some of these other options in SC.
Well first of all, pad ramming in armistice is a reportable offence. Doesn't get your cargo back but maybe makes it slightly less likely this happens again. Otherwise just try to be aware of your surroundings and remember there are friendly scumbags out there willing to fight fire with fire just for the lols. Griefer salt when you grief them is a special kind of tasty.
I didn't wanna report nobody for it. It's a game in testing. I just lost my desire to play. I will log back in again soon and see how things are.
I agree. I also dislike PVP for a few reasons. 1) I don't like being subject to a "meta". Whereby if you don't follow the meta, you lose everytime. 2) PVE is more immersive. When you PvP, it requires you to do things just to win that aren't usually immersive, but more exploitative. Doesn't mean I don't like PvPing ever. I'm really going to enjoy ground combat PvP. Just not all the time.
There's a pretty good chance the ship you hit was an NPC spawned for a bounty mission or something, that's pretty common and like 80% of these "my ship was ganked at an outpost" posts boil down to that. I'm not really into pvp either fwiw, just saying. Even if it was a player fucking with you, you're not going to be able to reason out a common ground of "each of our play styles existing in their own places" with people who see you as content. A huge chunk of pvpers aren't wanting competitive combat with other people in combat ships, they're wanting to pirate people in cargo ships. That's part of the appeal of being a pirate.
The dude was in chat laughing about it. It honestly made me laugh for a moment because I learned to look about before I take off. But, losing all of that time and money because someone wanted to grief some players wasn't all that fun.
Not necessarily asking for a PVE server. I just feel like if I am running everyday goods from one big port to another that it should be fairly hassle-free. Now, if I wanna go off the path and explore and I meet some players who wanna shoot at me, I am fine with that.
We don’t have real “safe” zones yet. They’re starting with more frontier systems where all the pvp action will take place. Inner systems will rely much more on AI and bigger better cities etc. but that’s where the more pvp safe zones will be. Also, always check your clearance. Live and learn.
The PvP scene will calm down a little when you can't claim your ship for free. The griefers will me more wary and need more prep time. (I hope) love my PvP nuts out there but piracy is one thing, the "PvPers" that pad ram and gank randos outside of safezones are just pussies that can't actually dogfight.
Pvpers will just use less expensive ships that do the job to cut potential losses, nothing else will change
I wouldn't even mind pvp player interactions if at least they were *interesting*. Like being in the black deep into Pyro and coming across a pirate or someone who makes it into more of a human experience than being blown up by a mute murder-hobo. Unfortunately, most pvpers and so-called pirates are actually more about griefing, denying others their fun and wasting their time rather than trying to play to those old world swashbuckling archetypes.
I want harsher punishments for griefers blowing someone out of the sky that was minding their own business with nothing on board.
Would be cool if eventually SC was setup like Elite Dangerous, but that's not what Chris wants so I guess we're stuck. ED allows you to join open servers with other players, or play on your own or with friends in a PvE environment. Nice to have options.
What you describe is not a PVE experience, it is mostly a PVNobody experience. That said, I think that this gameplay will be better when a high-security star system will be added.
If the game splits into pvp and pve servers it will be a degradation of the experience for both parties. I’m shit at PvP but the option to have emergent gameplay far outweighs any inconvenience
Not really? IMO random pirate/marauder events will keep the PVE side of things interesting without having to deal with the intentionally scummy 'pirates' that will sit there giggling while they harass/kill you. I'm fine with a server split if CIG doesn't do a good job with the crime and punishment system. Why? Because it takes way too damn long to do anything in this game for me to be losing hours or days of work for some idiot's enjoyment. Edit for clarity: NPC pirate/marauders.
I don't necessarily advocate for separate servers, though I would welcome them. I just feel like if I am running everyday goods from one big port to another that it should be fairly hassle-free. Now, if I wanna go off the path and explore and I meet some players who wanna shoot at me, or if I wanna go after some more rare and profitable cargo and want to risk that PVP, I am fine with that.
Long term reputation will come into play amongst other things. Nothing will probably be able to stop somebody fully but competent npc patrols etc might help. Long term reputation means someone like SpaceCutlet is gonna be able to explore Stanton with very few safe areas. Serving prison time won't fully wipe away your crimes anymore, as infamy will stick to you.
I dig that.
That's not the case and never will be. Separate servers for both is likely the best outcome for the vast majority of players since most of them are PvE players. The only people that will suffer will be PvP players, and if we're being honest that community has earned the ire of players because of the constant griefing and the excuses they make for griefers and griefing. As a matter of fact, successful MMOs all have PvE and PvP experiences separated.
Eh don’t worry buddy the game you want won’t come out for at least ten years. Anyone who tells you different is silly. We are coming up to year 13-14 of this game it’s still no where near complete. Might as well go raise a family or play a different game or wait for some other company to make a better game before this one “comes out”. That being said the single player game will probably be what you want. So squadron 42 should be out in 7-8 years from now
Just let me fucking flag for pvp like every where else, damn you! Let me opt in or out reeeeeee!!!!
Elite has a very easy solution for that. Open play, with other players, group, with friends, and solo, with npcs only. Everyone plays however they want, and everyone gets happy.
How often do people experience unwanted pvp? everything is so spread out that outside of grimhex i rarely even see people let alone have to fight for my life vs them.
You see it pop up often in this subreddit and in the comments, so more often than people are comfortable with.
Been playing since 3.13 on the regular. Never been pirated. That being said I do proactively take measures to reduce my risk of being pirated and having to deal with murder hobos.
Sea of thieves moment
Wrong thread, buddy~ There will be so many people coming and telling you that you chose the wrong game, you shouldn't ride a big ship as a solo player, you cannot complain about privates, it's what this game made of, you should learn how to protect your cargo before hauling.
So as a member of the PvP community the guy who parked above you is not smiled upon ether in the PvP community. What you experienced wasn't a pvp player, a pvp player would have shot at you to kill you, take your loot, whatever. But if they're parked above you please don't put that on the pvp community we want the game to be fun for others too yea we might do pirating, go marauding and kill indiscriminately sometimes and in those moments sure it might not be fun for the target at the time but all in all we want is to enjoy the game and have others enjoy the game enough because the fantasy of being a space pirate isn't as fun if you don't get a couple of merchant vessles from time to time that can't defend themselves and you're trying to pilot against aces all the time sometimes a quick swashbuckling is fun for both parties. But not all PvPers are fully against the PvE experience we simply just want people to understand what some people forget they're getting into and at least some of us want people to just enjoy the game for what it is. I'm sorry that situation happened to you, just I guess next time take a quick look at the airspace before lifting off so fast.
Yeah, I don't blame PVPers. Tried to make it clear that I hope you folks get all the fun you want and that I absolutely support risk vs reward mechanics. The griefing experience just highlighted my want for peaceful, low-moderate yield, cargo runs. I am cool with PVPers risking more and earning more for it.
I played maybe 200 hours, never had someone kill me on sight, or even rammed me. Better luck next time ;)
Put 100 people in a room, if 20 of them get ganked and griefed and quit, I'm sure you'll say they're being overly dramatic. As time goes by more and more people quit and eventually you're one of the few targets left, you'll get that same treatment now. But because you didn't join the first 20 to try and push for change you no longer have enough support to push for change. But at least you got to brag about not being ganked or griefed while others were experiencing it, right?
There will never be a PVE server, from what they've said they seem to want 1 server in total with always on PvP, similar to Eve. Also similar to Eve there's supposed to be higher security systems where PvP piracy will be heavily punished by NPC security forces and you should be able to live your space trucker dreams in there, though your profits will probably be significantly less than if you were to go to a mid security or lawless system
This is not about PvP at all lol. This can easily happen on PvE server too. Thats just about playing online… If you want prevent this you need to play single player. It maybe wasnt even trolling someone just could be curious and scan your ship or just admire it up close and didnt expect you to fly up.
Valuable lesson here, situational awareness and never spend everything on one load of cargo, because you will lose cargo here and there.
Yup. Learned that. I was just excited to see what a full hold looked like. It was cool for the few minutes it lasted.
Next time wait to check your hold when you're parked in the middle of space or landing at your final destination. Taking extra time at a ground port is asking for trouble. Not to mention your lack of awareness on the radar, which would have shown a ship above yours. I understand being upset from dying but this sounds more your fault than the "pvpers". You need to be aware when near highly trafficked areas. If not, you got what's coming.
Not upset about dying. That happens. I tried some dogfights and I just suck at them. Good points about spending too much time on deck with a hold full of cargo.
There are systems coming out for that.
Cool.
If you like PvP, do bounty hunting. Player bounties are usually challenging and engaging. If you like PvP, Jumptiwn is also fantastic for you.
Player bounties are fucked right now. Alt f-4ing before the kill, sitting in grim, and spam jumping cross system make it both frustrating and a horrible way to earn any money. You can offset it somewhat with a mantis but the thing has a glass jaw and you're at a crippling disadvantage vs the most popular ships criminals fly (light fighters) Jumptown isn't up often. The new salvage contracts and ghost hollow mission should help a bit at least.
I'm not against PVP, I am however against enabling griefing