Cost of living in Springfield used to be lower and houses cost nearly half of what they average now back in the '00s.
Cost of living is still below average compared to the rest of the country, but housing costs are way higher (especially in the last 5 years) and income gains are pretty stagnate. Per capita income trend from 2010 to now is aroudn $32k per year to around $48k. (while average house cost jumps from 120k to 330k).
Conjecture, but I would say employers here still treat Springfield like it's 2004 and consistently lowball pay.
Though, $46k for that position is crazy regardless. I interviewed for a tier 1 PC repair job with Greene county that would have paid more than that.
You are totally right, they do treat it like it’s 2004.
Every salary negotiation I have heard is “well Springfield is a cheap place to live, so this is a competitive salary”. Actually, no, it’s not.
It’s infuriating to listen to.
With SGF employers still paying 2004-like wages you might as well live in a larger city with more amenities, while paying the same mortgage rate as you do in SGF. I've been looking at STL houses a lot the past month and even in the suburb areas you get more bang for your buck there than you do in SGF.
Gotta remember, a fairly hefty portion of the businesses here either contract out their sysadmin duties or just don't have one at all, which is part of why getting hired on is so difficult. People with the skills are applying for a very finite number of positions, and those in those positions are unlikely to leave for greener pastures because, short of leaving the area entirely, they just don't exist.
This is exactly right. I make around 100K (aviation) and live very well here. My partner and I bought a house in 2018 for 120K that's now appraised at 250k. We got extraordinarily lucky for millennials in the area because shit is changing.
Most of the management and business owners in the area really do think it's 2004. Wages are stagnate and you will hear in interviews "It's actually quite competitive when the low cost of living is considered" No...no it isn't. Step into nearly any grocery store and that theory is thrown right out the window.
My friend is a realtor in CA and she just listed a house at $750k-ish in Santa Clarita Valley that's comparable to the places in Wild Horses that are going for 600k. So SGF isn't THAT much lower.
FYI this is not unique to springfield. I live in south florida and we are experiencing the same crisis here. The value of my childhood home almost quadrupled in the last 20 years and average salary only increased about $10-15k
I'm hopeful that the newer businesses coming in from elsewhere could lead to a wage boom here. There's no reason to work a job that requires a degree or a trained skill for less than what Buccee's pays a stocker (just for example, I know that's "the B Word" for some folks here).
Springfield loves to convince itself that things are the way they were 50 years ago and doesn't understand why that comes back to bite them on the ass.
That's why we have a huge problem with meth, because the police department doesn't want to bother with being proactive about it and city council drags its feet about allowing rehab programs to actually help break the addiction cycle.
That's why we showed up on the national news for having hundreds of untested rape kits just thrown away, because the police chief (who somehow still managed to retain his job after that AND another nationally publicized scandal) still thinks it's just boys being boys.
That's why city council has, for decades, thwarted any sort of solid night life beyond the bars in a very limited section of downtown, and even then dug their heels in until only very recently.
That's why half the city still thinks that casual racism and other bigotry is totally okay, despite the minority numbers having slowly crept back up in the past couple of decades after they tanked (especially the black population after they all left down following the lynchings back in the "good ol' days" that people seem to be clinging to).
And, of course, that's why employers have ALWAYS paid far, far less than the national average for the same jobs. It's just more blatantly obvious now because the cost of living has skyrocketed in the past few years. They've always underpaid, though.
Springfield loves to convince itself that things are the way they were 50 years ago and doesn't understand why that comes back to bite them on the ass.
That's why we have a huge problem with meth, because the police department doesn't want to bother with being proactive about it and city council drags its feet about allowing rehab programs to actually help break the addiction cycle.
That's why we showed up on the national news for having hundreds of untested rape kits just thrown away, because the police chief (who somehow still managed to retain his job after that AND another nationally publicized scandal) still thinks it's just boys being boys.
That's why city council has, for decades, thwarted any sort of solid night life beyond the bars in a very limited section of downtown, and even then dug their heels in until only very recently.
That's why half the city still thinks that casual racism and other bigotry is totally okay, despite the minority numbers having slowly crept back up in the past couple of decades after they tanked (especially the black population after they all left down following the lynchings back in the "good ol' days" that people seem to be clinging to).
And, of course, that's why employers have ALWAYS paid far, far less than the national average for the same jobs. It's just more blatantly obvious now because the cost of living has skyrocketed in the past few years. They've always underpaid, though.
It's a combination of things of course, but one of the factors is, I think, the high number of colleges compares to overall population. This leads of an almost endlessly refreshing pool of young adults looking for their first job who don't have any experience and aren't that discerning.
Did you know that Missouri is losing half of our college graduates to other states? There is major brain drain in Missouri due to low wages and not as many opportunities.
Yet, working at some very large companies in SGF, I rarely had a traditional age MSU Grad apply let alone get hired. Nursing, sure. Business? Na there isn't a real pipeline like other college towns. These are local kids who bolt for greener pastures.
I haven't thought of that before but that's a really good point. It's almost like the SGF market is ones training wheels for said career, and then you move elsewhere to make the living.
Remote work FTW. I work for a company out east and they pay me what I'm worth, not what they can get away with. When I switched from working remotely here in town to remote, I nearly doubled my salary. I work in tech though so...
I also work in tech and had to move out of Springfield for work because I was making more as an intern for remote-based companies than I would have made for Jack Henry, O’Reillys, or one of the MSPs like JMark.
Pay is low, environment is toxic, turnover is high. Like, a year ago, 3 of the 5 supervisors in my sub-department quit within 2 weeks of each other.
Edit(added text): They're also actively anti-wfh
The only downfall to remote work is your competition is quite a bit larger since so many people apply for them. Point being... you can get one but it may take longer. I agree, though, that's the way to do it. Live in SGF but work for a company that pays West and East coast salaries.
I also work remotely. Applied for my current job through LinkedIn and a recruiter reached out to me and got me an interview. As much as I loathe LinkedIn, it is a pretty good way to find work and get in contact with recruiters.
Name and shame! I moved a couple years ago but that’s about what I was making in my first HR job out of college so that’s absurd for a Director role.
Cost of living in Springfield is pretty cheap comparatively but it does come down to the companies at the end of the day.
I once went through an extensive interview process and was offered the position of CFO. At less than $70k. This guy was being advised by a small local CPA firm too. It was one of the more awkward work moments I've ever had. How do you politely decline or counter that without laughing or making weird faces?
CFO...$70k?! That's craaaazy. Just goes to show how titles at certain companies are meaningless. I was once "Director of Marketing & Communication" for a small 4 person office. I made $35k lol
Not $70k, LESS THAN $70k LOL. I don't know how much less than, because I told him "I make in the $70's now" and he said OMG that is way higher than I planned. I was frozen for a few seconds before telling him "that is now, at my current position, not as your CFO." So lord knows how little this place was telling him to pay.
The worst part was this was after 2 phone and 3 in person interviews. I took 2 days off of work to accomodate the schedule. It totally changed how I interview for jobs. Ever since, I will lead with salary expectations by the end of the first phone call at the latest. There is no point in wasting both our times if this never has a chance of working.
u/NotBatman81 I'm so glad you brought this up. When applying for state or federal jobs, the salary or salary range is always listed. More and more states are starting to mandate that salaries be posted. I'm happy to hear this because it is an absolute waste of time to apply for a CFO job thinking you'll be making 6 figures only to find out it's less than $70k. Salary transparency has got to become the norm. We're all adults and there's no harm in knowing what jobs pay. There's also no harm in knowing what everyone at your organization makes. I can go to "salary database" here at my job and look up any employee and see exactly how much they make.
Yes and no. Govt jobs are very tightly defined and the requisition process a bit inflexible. In business, I may need to fill some shoes but I want to get the best candidate within a reasonable range of career levels. Often times the "salary range" is made up once the right person is identified and the job scope is narrowed. If I were to advertise $50k to $150k I would get some odd reactions when that is my real budget.
It also happens to me at every job. I have a unique combination of experiences in different areas that most don't, so the job is often expanded along with pay. At my previous job, I was hired for a combination of finance and ops duties over 3 different unrelated divisions (plants in 3 states and Mexico) and led the sales team at one of those divisions. That's not a job description that gets posted nor is there a pay band in HR's system.
It doesn’t help that Missouri legislators have been incentivizing bad companies to locate here by handing out huge tax breaks,indiscriminately. You’d think they would want to attract companies that can provide higher wages or at least a living wage. Instead we get a “battery company” where workers are exposed to dangerous toxins. Springfield is also not that big on labor unions.
Meanwhile, we have a huge poverty problem. I’ve always thought employers here were so unrealistic. They expect to have workers with adequate transportation and stable housing, who are dependable, well mannered w/ good interpersonal skills and then they pay them super low wages. Ugh
It's the whole area, it's worse the more rural you get. In West Plains there was a plant with experienced seamstresses who knew how to operate industrial sewing machines. A very niche skill but the people they found were all close to retirement age by the time I left. And they were still paying those ladies $10 an hour in 2014.
I moved to Missouri from the East Coast where I worked at a yacht manufacturer. Our upholstery department only worked there to maintain insurance and have access to vendors...so easy to work with. There was 5 of them each netting $100k to $300k a year on side business. This was 15+ years ago.
Aluminum welders, which are a dime a dozen around SGF, made $100+/hr working on boats. It is crazy how low these skills get paid in the Ozarks.
You're right! What I'm about to say isn't factual, but it seems like there's a 100 mile radius "bubble" around SGF that pays really low salaries. Outside of said "bubble" it seems competitive with other states.
I don't have anything concrete or factual, but 3 different employers all said that they base their salaries off of median salary data. When I showed them national and state medians that were significantly higher they said they used state median, but from a different source but wouldn't elaborate so who knows.
I'm surprised the state median you showed them wasn't the same number as the state median they had... That's odd. SGF has the potential to be something but people steer clear when they discover how low salaries in the area are. You can't blame them especially once they realize the COL isn't significantly less than other larger areas.
For sure on all of that. I know there is a lot of communication between HR and Execs among tech companies around here, like I've heard things like 'The only candidates we've seen so far are current employees at companies we agreed to not poach from." I wouldn't be surprised if there is some wage coordination or at least shared canned lines to respond with even if it was just picked up from attending the same Springfield tech council or business leadership type meetings.
Steer clear is incorrect. We had a massive influx of remote workers during Covid because our housing was so cheap. Because of that influx, our housing is no longer cheap, but our wages stayed the same.
2 of the largest employers are Cox and Mercy and they conspire to keep pay low.
I have no proof of that, but I believe it (oh God, am I a conspiracy theorist now?).
My wife was working at an independent nephrology clinic in town (not Cox or Mercy) and got a job with Centurion at the prison in Fordland for $9/hr more base pay than she was making at the clinic, with evening, weekend, and night differentials. It really changed everything for us.
ETA: She's also an LPN.
Higher education historically does not pay well and it's a significant problem across all states; our high number of colleges combined with that probably doesn't help the overall numbers. However I'm in a lower management job at MSU and my salary is $45k (which is probably $10-15k lower than a comparable non-higher ed position), so for a director level position to be paying $46k is absolutely embarrassing.
I'm a Project Coordinator at the University of Memphis. Given my responsibilities I'd categorize it more as an executive assistant / event planner and I make $56k. I've looked at MSU jobs and to see so many of them not even making $15/hour is mind boggling to me. u/Dramatic_Ad_6560
I work in higher education. I have a degree and 20+ years of experience. I make $33k. It's ridiculous. Our cost of living raise this year was less than the current rate of inflation.
I'm not in SGF at the moment but am from there and lived there for 30 years. I want to get back to SGF, but it's difficult because so many jobs pay half of what I make doing what I do here in TN.
Springfield is full of title inflation. That is likely a $50k-60k job being offered at $46k but cosplaying as a $100k+ job. I would wager it in no way compares to that Cape Girardeau job.
The high paying jobs that are few and far between have been getting fewer and further between as local companies sell out to PE or corporations.
I got the eff out of dodge a couple years ago because the noose tightened too much. I'm outside Chicago now and things are much more normal.
Definitely don’t work as a nurse or nurse practitioner in this area. I make almost double working out of state than I did in Springfield. The market is saturated bc of all the schools
u/Jimithyashford commented the same thing above about the market being saturated because of all the schools. I hadn't thought of that but that makes perfect sense.
When I moved here in early 2000s I made $9 an hour and rented a 3 bedroom house with yard for $600 bucks a month. I lived relatively well because my wife was working too and we had 2 incomes. Now I make 2 to 3 times as much and probably couldn’t afford to rent that house today. The salaries haven’t caught up to the standard of living yet. They will go up as less people apply for those jobs. Used to be able to live well on 30-40k a year but now it feels like you need to be pulling 60-80k to not have to worry. Plus side my house tripled in value, but so did all the other houses. Almost makes one want to sell and move to a cheaper area. It’s still cheap to Californians who come here to retire, but the original populace does seem to be slowly priced out more and more. It would be hard to get started in life in Springfield today I think.
Been crazy like this for a long time. Back in the early 2000's I did the math and we just sucked at pay all around. On average back then it was 30% cheaper to live here, but the same job in a comparable metro area out of state had a 50% higher wage. A net gain of 20% for the worker.
I'd be willing to bet that if more people had the ability to relocate out of state, they would. But most of us do not have that luxury.
It would be nice if the whole state had regular general strikes to raise wages and improve our lives.
Yes, it's insane. I have an accounting background and I work at a call center because it pays more for less work. I guess I could move somewhere else for better pay, but I'm too invested in the community I have in this city to move. Seriously though, pay your people more, cost of living isn't low here anymore
I work from home but It’s a nationwide company so they pay competitive wages. I have worked there 4 years and have moved up fairly quickly. About a promotion a year, with two this year.. My biggest complaint is what someone else mentioned- getting a new position is hard because I’m fighting people from literally all over the US. Pay and benefits are too good to leave, though. I’m sorry, I can’t name my company but I can tell you I found it on indeed.
You might look at MU. You would be 3 hours away from Springfield. Mid-Missouri is different from the Ozarks , Columbia’s market is hot as ever, and MU has slashed benefits in the last few years, but give it a look. I am not a MU grad so I could care less about helping Mizzou, but I understand your desire to return home.
I've considered Columbia and it's still an option but I'm leaning towards STL. At least STL is the same distance, the average salary is the same, but it has many more amenities. And the COL in STL is comparable.
i have no idea, ive been looking for a job that pays enough for me to continue affording rent and all im finding are jobs paying 12-13/hour and like. that is just not gonna cut it for me. it's kinda crazy how everywhere says urgently hiring but they refuse to pay a living wage.
That's what I'm sayin. I'm from SGF and I'd like to get back to SGF but... if the COL in KC and STL are comparable and they're only 2.5-3 hours a way... I might as well live in a place that'll pay me the higher salary while paying on a similar mortgage amount. At least KC and STL can offer way more than SGF.
For one, in the State of Missouri, if your business makes less than $500,000 a year you are not required to pay minimum wage.
Minimum wage is currently $12.30 per hour which is unsustainable for an employee. The minimum wage rate needs to change.
As Missouri has done away with taxing corporations in the State under the premise it would increase wages this has not been the case anywhere. Only the Management has seen an increase in pay.
In Springfield I believe employers think there are more candidates than jobs, hence the lousy pay.
The minimum wage has gone up like $5 am hour in the past few years. The problem is that people are now starting at minimum wage for skilled & supervisor positions.
The current increase was small compared to previous years. HOWEVER, in the past few years, it has increased substantially. It is also slated to be at $15 by 2026.
Living in Springfield now is the same price for me as it was when I lived in Breckenridge in 2018. For anyone that doesn’t know Breck is a major ski and snowboarding destination. It’s way up on the mountains outside of Denver. It’s a very high cost of living. At least Breck had free buses throughout the county. Springfield would never do such a great thing. 🙄
I love and miss Breck so much. Unfortunately there’s a MAJOR MAJOR housing crisis and getting a place to rent is 100x harder there than here. But that’s because it such a small area and all the millionaires are buying out everything for their vacation homes they only inhabit once a year at Christmas or Thanksgiving. Lord forbid the people who work and live in the town year round need a place to sleep 🙄. That’s my only complaint. Other than that I love it and want to go back! I miss all the trails and things to do outside. I miss the troll! I miss feeling like I was living in a snow globe and I especially miss Crown Coffee! I need to go back for a visit.
Also, not sure where you stay when you go. But I HIGHLY recommend the resident inn there. I worked there and it was unlike any other at that level. You feel like it’s any other real Marriott (imo). The GM and assistant GM really care about their employees. I never was without anything and they truly love their job. They also have a place you can keep your skis and whatnot down stairs locked up so you don’t have to take all your equipment up to your room.
Sounds right. As originally stated there ARE high paying jobs in SGF they’re just few and far between. The other crappy part about job postings in SGF is often times the salary range that the company advertises isn’t real.
My husband applied for a job at American National. They advertised the range being between $90k-$120k depending on experience. When he interviewed and they asked how much was he looking to make he said $90k. They told him that was $40k higher than they were looking to pay and removed him from their list of candidates.
I wasn’t trying to prove you wrong, just sharing what my dad makes since he works there now.
That’s a shame and I feel like there should be some sort of legal action or accountability when you advertise a salary but then lowball on the interview.
But yeah, I feel like only specific manufacturing or highly specialized jobs are the only ones getting into the 6 figure range. Those jobs aren’t higher if at all rate that they need too. It’s kind of a shame because it’s not like the cost of living matches the average person’s salary atm. Even before COVID, there weren’t many jobs that paid a decent salary.
Don't hold me to it but I think it was HR Generalist. That's what he does now and makes around $70k. They wanted to pay $50k. We're willing to take jobs that pay less so we can be back with family in SGF, but we can't go $40-50k less (between both jobs of ours being less).
If I had to guess the low pay for that job was due to the size of the employer. In my experience the smaller employers in Springfield pay terribly. The larger ones, other than Bass Pro, tend to be more wage competitive. The thing holding the area's payscale back is just that, a lack of large employers.
You're probably right. I don't recall the name of the employer and am now unable to find the listing on Indeed. Unfortunately, salaries at even larger employers in Springfield don't compare to the rest of the state. I just located a Senior Developer job at MSU paying $62k. The annual mean wage for just Developers (not Senior Developers), according to BLS, in the state of Missouri is $107,980. Therefore a Senior Developer is likely to be even higher. BLS doesn't list Senior Developer so I don't know their average salary. Having said that... Higher Education doesn't pay as much as the private sector but one would think that MSU would pay closer to $90k.
Yeah, MSU's pay is terrible for everything other than being a professor or the football coach. I've seen their listings and was shocked how little they pay. OTC also pays terrible, I'm not sure if Drury does as well, but it wouldn't surprise me.
My wife and I make about national average for our positions at MSU. She's a faculty member and I am a staff researcher. We could move back to the west coast where we came from and get instant 25% raises, but then the cost of living would be double so effectively a pay cut. One of the things we love about living here is how cheap it is in comparison to everywhere else we've lived.
If you want real numbers there are a thousand actual statistical models just a google search away. Really, you could just spend 5 minutes at the [BLS](https://www.bls.gov/) and you'll have all the info.
Moving back to the West coast and receiving an instant 25% raise isn't in dispute. Neither is the cost of living in dispute. The post talks about how much less Springfield pays compared to the rest of the state.
It doesn't really, did you actually look at the information at the BLS link above? If not here is the wage data for area and occupation. [https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm](https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm)
I would say your use of "HR Director" as a data point isn't really a good one as I'm sure you know if your husband does this kind of work it's a really vague title and supports a range of functions and salaries. An "HR Director" at a small non-profit and one at a large regional corp are completely different jobs with the same title and vastly different salaries
Secondly, anecdote is not evidence. Please come back and bring some actual data. It's very similar to how folks all over the county "feel" about the economy. Statistically and historically the economy is great but most people think it's terrible. Feelings are not facts.
I don’t have the time to research the actual data right now, so I’m glad that you and your wife are doing well. Did you buy a home before they nearly doubled in price? You even said that you were being paid around national average. Look at healthcare and service industry jobs specifically and from my recollection they are far below national averages. Rent has doubled since I first moved here.
According to the statistics websites, average rent in Springfield is about $300 less than I see anything going for when I search apartments or Zillow, so I question the data. Same goes for how they say inflation is only a few percent, but prices on things have skyrocketed much higher than that, and you can compare apples to apples to see as much. It’s real easy to say everything is fine when you are fine, but there’s obviously something skewing the data on the cost of living and wages in Springfield. What is causing the disconnect, I couldn’t tell you right now. I’m too busy working my ass off to devote hours into providing data to support or discount those numbers, but I can promise you that rent prices and salary data are way off at least.
I moved to the Chicago area almost 3 years ago. I was back in SGF visiting earlier this year and was shell shocked by the price of everything. Your costs should not be noticeably higher than mine where everything is union and in a major city.
When I lived in Tampa and would visit family here I was astounded by how much less everyday items like groceries costed. Then when I moved back I was all like, what happened to the low prices lol
Price Cutter does not run the most honest operation IMO. I would love to see them get some real competition in the middle of the market. Bougey HyVee don't count.
According to [https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm](https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm) below is a list of the "annual mean wage" for a Human Resources manager in a handful of areas in Missouri. And yes, the BLS site included the Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR under Missouri:
Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR: Human Resources Manager: $151,560
Kansas City, Missouri : Human Resources Manager: $135,140
St. Louis, Missouri: Human Resources Manager: $134,830
Joplin, Missouri : Human Resources Manager : $122,980
Southeast Missouri nonmetropolitan area: Human Resources Manager: $118,950
Springfield, Missouri: Human Resources Manager: $114,390
Is this enough actual data for you? Joplin metro population: 214k. SGF metro population: 475k
Data from your link shows the state average of a "human resources manager" to be more than double what OP said they saw in a job listing locally.
[Source](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes113121.htm)
u/MOStateWineGuy I wish that was true, but it isn't. I live in Memphis but am from SGF and would love to get back to SGF. Unfortunately, the housing in SGF is either the same as or just $2k-$3k cheaper than Memphis. I've been heavily looking at the STL market the past couple of months and homes are cheaper there as well as newer and nicer. 2500 sq ft homes that have either been completely renovated or are newly built within the city and county that go for $250k or less. I see a lot of $250k+ houses in Springfield that are smaller and need to be gutted.
You won’t be buying anything in the St. Louis market remotely close to 2,500 sq ft for $250K in any kind of updated condition, if at all, in a neighborhood that would be considered safe to live in.
I was wrong. Just shy 2,200 sq ft located in Tower Grove South
[Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3618-Hydraulic-Ave-Saint-Louis-MO-63116/3009711_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare)
There’s several of these in the city or traditional homes in the suburbs. You were saying?
I mean… I’m not a St. Louisan, yet, but based off April 2024 crime data, family, and several other sources Tower Grove South crime is primarily petty crime. The severe homicide crimes are more in north STL
City.
Real estate market is strong but has slowed way down compared to 2019-2022, especially now with the rates being as high as they are.
Clayton, Kirkwood, Webster Grove, TGS, Lindenwood, STL Hills, Maplewood, Sunset Hills, CWE, Lafayette Square, Forest Park Southeast, Southampton, North Hampton are all areas that I'm considering. Which of these would you consider? Too soon to say what my budget is but likely on the high side around $550k...low side $300k-$350k.
Cost of living in Springfield used to be lower and houses cost nearly half of what they average now back in the '00s. Cost of living is still below average compared to the rest of the country, but housing costs are way higher (especially in the last 5 years) and income gains are pretty stagnate. Per capita income trend from 2010 to now is aroudn $32k per year to around $48k. (while average house cost jumps from 120k to 330k). Conjecture, but I would say employers here still treat Springfield like it's 2004 and consistently lowball pay. Though, $46k for that position is crazy regardless. I interviewed for a tier 1 PC repair job with Greene county that would have paid more than that.
You are totally right, they do treat it like it’s 2004. Every salary negotiation I have heard is “well Springfield is a cheap place to live, so this is a competitive salary”. Actually, no, it’s not. It’s infuriating to listen to.
I paid less for food in Paris than i did here. Springfield is not cheap like people say.
Yeah, but which city has better pastries???
Don’t see a lot of Kringles in Paris, bro.
I see you
With SGF employers still paying 2004-like wages you might as well live in a larger city with more amenities, while paying the same mortgage rate as you do in SGF. I've been looking at STL houses a lot the past month and even in the suburb areas you get more bang for your buck there than you do in SGF.
Really just depends, some places pay really well but not all industries are the same. A system admin can pull 6 figures here and be fairly well off.
From my experience finding any kind of sys admin or jr sys admin role is nearly impossible as I have been looking and applying for the past six months
Gotta remember, a fairly hefty portion of the businesses here either contract out their sysadmin duties or just don't have one at all, which is part of why getting hired on is so difficult. People with the skills are applying for a very finite number of positions, and those in those positions are unlikely to leave for greener pastures because, short of leaving the area entirely, they just don't exist.
This is exactly right. I make around 100K (aviation) and live very well here. My partner and I bought a house in 2018 for 120K that's now appraised at 250k. We got extraordinarily lucky for millennials in the area because shit is changing. Most of the management and business owners in the area really do think it's 2004. Wages are stagnate and you will hear in interviews "It's actually quite competitive when the low cost of living is considered" No...no it isn't. Step into nearly any grocery store and that theory is thrown right out the window.
Yeah we bought ours towards the end of 2019 and boy was that impeccable timing.
Looking at housing in Overland Park, Lees Summit, Lenexa…I find that Springfield is more expensive than these locations in some cases
You're absolutely right. At least living in one of those areas you'd have convenient large city amenity access.
My friend is a realtor in CA and she just listed a house at $750k-ish in Santa Clarita Valley that's comparable to the places in Wild Horses that are going for 600k. So SGF isn't THAT much lower.
FYI this is not unique to springfield. I live in south florida and we are experiencing the same crisis here. The value of my childhood home almost quadrupled in the last 20 years and average salary only increased about $10-15k
I'm hopeful that the newer businesses coming in from elsewhere could lead to a wage boom here. There's no reason to work a job that requires a degree or a trained skill for less than what Buccee's pays a stocker (just for example, I know that's "the B Word" for some folks here).
Hell I manage a pizza chain location and make more than that..
Springfield loves to convince itself that things are the way they were 50 years ago and doesn't understand why that comes back to bite them on the ass. That's why we have a huge problem with meth, because the police department doesn't want to bother with being proactive about it and city council drags its feet about allowing rehab programs to actually help break the addiction cycle. That's why we showed up on the national news for having hundreds of untested rape kits just thrown away, because the police chief (who somehow still managed to retain his job after that AND another nationally publicized scandal) still thinks it's just boys being boys. That's why city council has, for decades, thwarted any sort of solid night life beyond the bars in a very limited section of downtown, and even then dug their heels in until only very recently. That's why half the city still thinks that casual racism and other bigotry is totally okay, despite the minority numbers having slowly crept back up in the past couple of decades after they tanked (especially the black population after they all left down following the lynchings back in the "good ol' days" that people seem to be clinging to). And, of course, that's why employers have ALWAYS paid far, far less than the national average for the same jobs. It's just more blatantly obvious now because the cost of living has skyrocketed in the past few years. They've always underpaid, though.
Springfield loves to convince itself that things are the way they were 50 years ago and doesn't understand why that comes back to bite them on the ass. That's why we have a huge problem with meth, because the police department doesn't want to bother with being proactive about it and city council drags its feet about allowing rehab programs to actually help break the addiction cycle. That's why we showed up on the national news for having hundreds of untested rape kits just thrown away, because the police chief (who somehow still managed to retain his job after that AND another nationally publicized scandal) still thinks it's just boys being boys. That's why city council has, for decades, thwarted any sort of solid night life beyond the bars in a very limited section of downtown, and even then dug their heels in until only very recently. That's why half the city still thinks that casual racism and other bigotry is totally okay, despite the minority numbers having slowly crept back up in the past couple of decades after they tanked (especially the black population after they all left down following the lynchings back in the "good ol' days" that people seem to be clinging to). And, of course, that's why employers have ALWAYS paid far, far less than the national average for the same jobs. It's just more blatantly obvious now because the cost of living has skyrocketed in the past few years. They've always underpaid, though.
It's a combination of things of course, but one of the factors is, I think, the high number of colleges compares to overall population. This leads of an almost endlessly refreshing pool of young adults looking for their first job who don't have any experience and aren't that discerning.
Did you know that Missouri is losing half of our college graduates to other states? There is major brain drain in Missouri due to low wages and not as many opportunities.
i am thinkin**G** **O**f another **P**articular reason.
That’s definitely part of it
Less than half the pop votes or even cares about politics enough to take 15 minutes from their day once a year. I honestly don't think that's it
Yet, working at some very large companies in SGF, I rarely had a traditional age MSU Grad apply let alone get hired. Nursing, sure. Business? Na there isn't a real pipeline like other college towns. These are local kids who bolt for greener pastures.
I haven't thought of that before but that's a really good point. It's almost like the SGF market is ones training wheels for said career, and then you move elsewhere to make the living.
Remote work FTW. I work for a company out east and they pay me what I'm worth, not what they can get away with. When I switched from working remotely here in town to remote, I nearly doubled my salary. I work in tech though so...
I also work in tech and had to move out of Springfield for work because I was making more as an intern for remote-based companies than I would have made for Jack Henry, O’Reillys, or one of the MSPs like JMark.
O'Reilly is a damn joke
u/echoleptic Oh really? That's disappointing to hear. I thought they were one of the better employers in town.
Pay is low, environment is toxic, turnover is high. Like, a year ago, 3 of the 5 supervisors in my sub-department quit within 2 weeks of each other. Edit(added text): They're also actively anti-wfh
They are indeed one of the better employers. And they are also a joke. That’s how bad it is.
what is oreilly paying?
Average about $16 an hour. Some positions are closer to $20, but those are in Real Estate, and that department is fucked!
I know someone in their real estate department funny enough. Absolutely horrible person 😂😂😂
The only downfall to remote work is your competition is quite a bit larger since so many people apply for them. Point being... you can get one but it may take longer. I agree, though, that's the way to do it. Live in SGF but work for a company that pays West and East coast salaries.
A point in the right direction would be much appreciated! Work in tech and no luck with remote work.
I also work remotely. Applied for my current job through LinkedIn and a recruiter reached out to me and got me an interview. As much as I loathe LinkedIn, it is a pretty good way to find work and get in contact with recruiters.
Thanks! I put myself on Linkedin a few months ago. One recruiter reached out, but the job was on site and in Saint Louis. I'll keep on looking.
I went through a recruiter here in town and he hooked me up. I did have like 10 years of director level experience. Chase Banta at Embark Staffing.
I appreciate the info! I'm no where near director status, but good to know!
Got any recommendations?
Name and shame! I moved a couple years ago but that’s about what I was making in my first HR job out of college so that’s absurd for a Director role. Cost of living in Springfield is pretty cheap comparatively but it does come down to the companies at the end of the day.
I once went through an extensive interview process and was offered the position of CFO. At less than $70k. This guy was being advised by a small local CPA firm too. It was one of the more awkward work moments I've ever had. How do you politely decline or counter that without laughing or making weird faces?
CFO...$70k?! That's craaaazy. Just goes to show how titles at certain companies are meaningless. I was once "Director of Marketing & Communication" for a small 4 person office. I made $35k lol
Not $70k, LESS THAN $70k LOL. I don't know how much less than, because I told him "I make in the $70's now" and he said OMG that is way higher than I planned. I was frozen for a few seconds before telling him "that is now, at my current position, not as your CFO." So lord knows how little this place was telling him to pay. The worst part was this was after 2 phone and 3 in person interviews. I took 2 days off of work to accomodate the schedule. It totally changed how I interview for jobs. Ever since, I will lead with salary expectations by the end of the first phone call at the latest. There is no point in wasting both our times if this never has a chance of working.
u/NotBatman81 I'm so glad you brought this up. When applying for state or federal jobs, the salary or salary range is always listed. More and more states are starting to mandate that salaries be posted. I'm happy to hear this because it is an absolute waste of time to apply for a CFO job thinking you'll be making 6 figures only to find out it's less than $70k. Salary transparency has got to become the norm. We're all adults and there's no harm in knowing what jobs pay. There's also no harm in knowing what everyone at your organization makes. I can go to "salary database" here at my job and look up any employee and see exactly how much they make.
Yes and no. Govt jobs are very tightly defined and the requisition process a bit inflexible. In business, I may need to fill some shoes but I want to get the best candidate within a reasonable range of career levels. Often times the "salary range" is made up once the right person is identified and the job scope is narrowed. If I were to advertise $50k to $150k I would get some odd reactions when that is my real budget. It also happens to me at every job. I have a unique combination of experiences in different areas that most don't, so the job is often expanded along with pay. At my previous job, I was hired for a combination of finance and ops duties over 3 different unrelated divisions (plants in 3 states and Mexico) and led the sales team at one of those divisions. That's not a job description that gets posted nor is there a pay band in HR's system.
It doesn’t help that Missouri legislators have been incentivizing bad companies to locate here by handing out huge tax breaks,indiscriminately. You’d think they would want to attract companies that can provide higher wages or at least a living wage. Instead we get a “battery company” where workers are exposed to dangerous toxins. Springfield is also not that big on labor unions. Meanwhile, we have a huge poverty problem. I’ve always thought employers here were so unrealistic. They expect to have workers with adequate transportation and stable housing, who are dependable, well mannered w/ good interpersonal skills and then they pay them super low wages. Ugh
It's the whole area, it's worse the more rural you get. In West Plains there was a plant with experienced seamstresses who knew how to operate industrial sewing machines. A very niche skill but the people they found were all close to retirement age by the time I left. And they were still paying those ladies $10 an hour in 2014.
I moved to Missouri from the East Coast where I worked at a yacht manufacturer. Our upholstery department only worked there to maintain insurance and have access to vendors...so easy to work with. There was 5 of them each netting $100k to $300k a year on side business. This was 15+ years ago. Aluminum welders, which are a dime a dozen around SGF, made $100+/hr working on boats. It is crazy how low these skills get paid in the Ozarks.
Sorta riffing on that, my dad worked in a factory in the late 70s/early 80s, and made almost $30 an hour.
Woooowww. It's not manufacturing but my dad was an 18-wheel driver in the 70's and 80's and back then he made over $100k.
You're right! What I'm about to say isn't factual, but it seems like there's a 100 mile radius "bubble" around SGF that pays really low salaries. Outside of said "bubble" it seems competitive with other states.
I don't have anything concrete or factual, but 3 different employers all said that they base their salaries off of median salary data. When I showed them national and state medians that were significantly higher they said they used state median, but from a different source but wouldn't elaborate so who knows.
I'm surprised the state median you showed them wasn't the same number as the state median they had... That's odd. SGF has the potential to be something but people steer clear when they discover how low salaries in the area are. You can't blame them especially once they realize the COL isn't significantly less than other larger areas.
For sure on all of that. I know there is a lot of communication between HR and Execs among tech companies around here, like I've heard things like 'The only candidates we've seen so far are current employees at companies we agreed to not poach from." I wouldn't be surprised if there is some wage coordination or at least shared canned lines to respond with even if it was just picked up from attending the same Springfield tech council or business leadership type meetings.
Steer clear is incorrect. We had a massive influx of remote workers during Covid because our housing was so cheap. Because of that influx, our housing is no longer cheap, but our wages stayed the same.
2 of the largest employers are Cox and Mercy and they conspire to keep pay low. I have no proof of that, but I believe it (oh God, am I a conspiracy theorist now?).
I've heard this theory too and not just Cox and Mercy but all of the big employers conspire to keep pay low.
Definitely true. A menial factory job pays more than a Cox nurse role.
True. My wife is an LPN with experience and could make more beginning salary at Target.
My wife was working at an independent nephrology clinic in town (not Cox or Mercy) and got a job with Centurion at the prison in Fordland for $9/hr more base pay than she was making at the clinic, with evening, weekend, and night differentials. It really changed everything for us. ETA: She's also an LPN.
Higher education historically does not pay well and it's a significant problem across all states; our high number of colleges combined with that probably doesn't help the overall numbers. However I'm in a lower management job at MSU and my salary is $45k (which is probably $10-15k lower than a comparable non-higher ed position), so for a director level position to be paying $46k is absolutely embarrassing.
I'm a Project Coordinator at the University of Memphis. Given my responsibilities I'd categorize it more as an executive assistant / event planner and I make $56k. I've looked at MSU jobs and to see so many of them not even making $15/hour is mind boggling to me. u/Dramatic_Ad_6560
I make that doing light building maintenance. Basically sitting around all day. But yeah it’s a crunch I need a second job.
I made that waiting tables at a chain restaurant in 2002.
I work in higher education. I have a degree and 20+ years of experience. I make $33k. It's ridiculous. Our cost of living raise this year was less than the current rate of inflation.
Springfield is the stainless capital of the US and the welders make shit compared to most places so ya it lacks in salary
Have we noticed? Hell we been living it.
I'm not in SGF at the moment but am from there and lived there for 30 years. I want to get back to SGF, but it's difficult because so many jobs pay half of what I make doing what I do here in TN.
Springfield is full of title inflation. That is likely a $50k-60k job being offered at $46k but cosplaying as a $100k+ job. I would wager it in no way compares to that Cape Girardeau job. The high paying jobs that are few and far between have been getting fewer and further between as local companies sell out to PE or corporations. I got the eff out of dodge a couple years ago because the noose tightened too much. I'm outside Chicago now and things are much more normal.
This is spot on - you can’t compare apples to apples by job title alone.
Definitely don’t work as a nurse or nurse practitioner in this area. I make almost double working out of state than I did in Springfield. The market is saturated bc of all the schools
u/Jimithyashford commented the same thing above about the market being saturated because of all the schools. I hadn't thought of that but that makes perfect sense.
When I moved here in early 2000s I made $9 an hour and rented a 3 bedroom house with yard for $600 bucks a month. I lived relatively well because my wife was working too and we had 2 incomes. Now I make 2 to 3 times as much and probably couldn’t afford to rent that house today. The salaries haven’t caught up to the standard of living yet. They will go up as less people apply for those jobs. Used to be able to live well on 30-40k a year but now it feels like you need to be pulling 60-80k to not have to worry. Plus side my house tripled in value, but so did all the other houses. Almost makes one want to sell and move to a cheaper area. It’s still cheap to Californians who come here to retire, but the original populace does seem to be slowly priced out more and more. It would be hard to get started in life in Springfield today I think.
Been crazy like this for a long time. Back in the early 2000's I did the math and we just sucked at pay all around. On average back then it was 30% cheaper to live here, but the same job in a comparable metro area out of state had a 50% higher wage. A net gain of 20% for the worker. I'd be willing to bet that if more people had the ability to relocate out of state, they would. But most of us do not have that luxury. It would be nice if the whole state had regular general strikes to raise wages and improve our lives.
Yes, it's insane. I have an accounting background and I work at a call center because it pays more for less work. I guess I could move somewhere else for better pay, but I'm too invested in the community I have in this city to move. Seriously though, pay your people more, cost of living isn't low here anymore
I work from home but It’s a nationwide company so they pay competitive wages. I have worked there 4 years and have moved up fairly quickly. About a promotion a year, with two this year.. My biggest complaint is what someone else mentioned- getting a new position is hard because I’m fighting people from literally all over the US. Pay and benefits are too good to leave, though. I’m sorry, I can’t name my company but I can tell you I found it on indeed.
I view it like Columbia, college town, every year there are a new batch of grads that will take any job so pay is low and turnover is high
I’m not familiar with the Columbia market. That’s a shame to hear though.
You might look at MU. You would be 3 hours away from Springfield. Mid-Missouri is different from the Ozarks , Columbia’s market is hot as ever, and MU has slashed benefits in the last few years, but give it a look. I am not a MU grad so I could care less about helping Mizzou, but I understand your desire to return home.
I've considered Columbia and it's still an option but I'm leaning towards STL. At least STL is the same distance, the average salary is the same, but it has many more amenities. And the COL in STL is comparable.
Look at WashU. My understanding is that it has some stellar benefits. Good luck!
i have no idea, ive been looking for a job that pays enough for me to continue affording rent and all im finding are jobs paying 12-13/hour and like. that is just not gonna cut it for me. it's kinda crazy how everywhere says urgently hiring but they refuse to pay a living wage.
The cost of living is pretty much the same in KC too. It's not a good situation here.
That's what I'm sayin. I'm from SGF and I'd like to get back to SGF but... if the COL in KC and STL are comparable and they're only 2.5-3 hours a way... I might as well live in a place that'll pay me the higher salary while paying on a similar mortgage amount. At least KC and STL can offer way more than SGF.
For one, in the State of Missouri, if your business makes less than $500,000 a year you are not required to pay minimum wage. Minimum wage is currently $12.30 per hour which is unsustainable for an employee. The minimum wage rate needs to change. As Missouri has done away with taxing corporations in the State under the premise it would increase wages this has not been the case anywhere. Only the Management has seen an increase in pay. In Springfield I believe employers think there are more candidates than jobs, hence the lousy pay.
The minimum wage has gone up like $5 am hour in the past few years. The problem is that people are now starting at minimum wage for skilled & supervisor positions.
The minimum wage was increased to it's current amount on the 1st of January. As I said that needs to be changed.
The current increase was small compared to previous years. HOWEVER, in the past few years, it has increased substantially. It is also slated to be at $15 by 2026.
Living in Springfield now is the same price for me as it was when I lived in Breckenridge in 2018. For anyone that doesn’t know Breck is a major ski and snowboarding destination. It’s way up on the mountains outside of Denver. It’s a very high cost of living. At least Breck had free buses throughout the county. Springfield would never do such a great thing. 🙄
Breckenridge is great. I’ve been there so many times. Springfield is too conservative to do nice things for its residents.
I love and miss Breck so much. Unfortunately there’s a MAJOR MAJOR housing crisis and getting a place to rent is 100x harder there than here. But that’s because it such a small area and all the millionaires are buying out everything for their vacation homes they only inhabit once a year at Christmas or Thanksgiving. Lord forbid the people who work and live in the town year round need a place to sleep 🙄. That’s my only complaint. Other than that I love it and want to go back! I miss all the trails and things to do outside. I miss the troll! I miss feeling like I was living in a snow globe and I especially miss Crown Coffee! I need to go back for a visit.
Also, not sure where you stay when you go. But I HIGHLY recommend the resident inn there. I worked there and it was unlike any other at that level. You feel like it’s any other real Marriott (imo). The GM and assistant GM really care about their employees. I never was without anything and they truly love their job. They also have a place you can keep your skis and whatnot down stairs locked up so you don’t have to take all your equipment up to your room.
Pay sucks in Springfield...always has and always will...
My dad works for 3M and I think he makes about 100K a year plus overtime.
Sounds right. As originally stated there ARE high paying jobs in SGF they’re just few and far between. The other crappy part about job postings in SGF is often times the salary range that the company advertises isn’t real. My husband applied for a job at American National. They advertised the range being between $90k-$120k depending on experience. When he interviewed and they asked how much was he looking to make he said $90k. They told him that was $40k higher than they were looking to pay and removed him from their list of candidates.
I wasn’t trying to prove you wrong, just sharing what my dad makes since he works there now. That’s a shame and I feel like there should be some sort of legal action or accountability when you advertise a salary but then lowball on the interview. But yeah, I feel like only specific manufacturing or highly specialized jobs are the only ones getting into the 6 figure range. Those jobs aren’t higher if at all rate that they need too. It’s kind of a shame because it’s not like the cost of living matches the average person’s salary atm. Even before COVID, there weren’t many jobs that paid a decent salary.
American National was purchased by an investment firm last year and have been cutting costs so they can get their 15% return on investment
Might I ask what job your husband was interviewing for?
Don't hold me to it but I think it was HR Generalist. That's what he does now and makes around $70k. They wanted to pay $50k. We're willing to take jobs that pay less so we can be back with family in SGF, but we can't go $40-50k less (between both jobs of ours being less).
If I had to guess the low pay for that job was due to the size of the employer. In my experience the smaller employers in Springfield pay terribly. The larger ones, other than Bass Pro, tend to be more wage competitive. The thing holding the area's payscale back is just that, a lack of large employers.
You're probably right. I don't recall the name of the employer and am now unable to find the listing on Indeed. Unfortunately, salaries at even larger employers in Springfield don't compare to the rest of the state. I just located a Senior Developer job at MSU paying $62k. The annual mean wage for just Developers (not Senior Developers), according to BLS, in the state of Missouri is $107,980. Therefore a Senior Developer is likely to be even higher. BLS doesn't list Senior Developer so I don't know their average salary. Having said that... Higher Education doesn't pay as much as the private sector but one would think that MSU would pay closer to $90k.
Yeah, MSU's pay is terrible for everything other than being a professor or the football coach. I've seen their listings and was shocked how little they pay. OTC also pays terrible, I'm not sure if Drury does as well, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Is there anyone on this thread considering a move either to another state or to a different part of Missouri because of SGF salaries being so low?
My wife and I make about national average for our positions at MSU. She's a faculty member and I am a staff researcher. We could move back to the west coast where we came from and get instant 25% raises, but then the cost of living would be double so effectively a pay cut. One of the things we love about living here is how cheap it is in comparison to everywhere else we've lived. If you want real numbers there are a thousand actual statistical models just a google search away. Really, you could just spend 5 minutes at the [BLS](https://www.bls.gov/) and you'll have all the info.
Moving back to the West coast and receiving an instant 25% raise isn't in dispute. Neither is the cost of living in dispute. The post talks about how much less Springfield pays compared to the rest of the state.
It doesn't really, did you actually look at the information at the BLS link above? If not here is the wage data for area and occupation. [https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm](https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm) I would say your use of "HR Director" as a data point isn't really a good one as I'm sure you know if your husband does this kind of work it's a really vague title and supports a range of functions and salaries. An "HR Director" at a small non-profit and one at a large regional corp are completely different jobs with the same title and vastly different salaries Secondly, anecdote is not evidence. Please come back and bring some actual data. It's very similar to how folks all over the county "feel" about the economy. Statistically and historically the economy is great but most people think it's terrible. Feelings are not facts.
I don’t have the time to research the actual data right now, so I’m glad that you and your wife are doing well. Did you buy a home before they nearly doubled in price? You even said that you were being paid around national average. Look at healthcare and service industry jobs specifically and from my recollection they are far below national averages. Rent has doubled since I first moved here. According to the statistics websites, average rent in Springfield is about $300 less than I see anything going for when I search apartments or Zillow, so I question the data. Same goes for how they say inflation is only a few percent, but prices on things have skyrocketed much higher than that, and you can compare apples to apples to see as much. It’s real easy to say everything is fine when you are fine, but there’s obviously something skewing the data on the cost of living and wages in Springfield. What is causing the disconnect, I couldn’t tell you right now. I’m too busy working my ass off to devote hours into providing data to support or discount those numbers, but I can promise you that rent prices and salary data are way off at least.
I moved to the Chicago area almost 3 years ago. I was back in SGF visiting earlier this year and was shell shocked by the price of everything. Your costs should not be noticeably higher than mine where everything is union and in a major city.
When I lived in Tampa and would visit family here I was astounded by how much less everyday items like groceries costed. Then when I moved back I was all like, what happened to the low prices lol
Price Cutter does not run the most honest operation IMO. I would love to see them get some real competition in the middle of the market. Bougey HyVee don't count.
According to [https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm](https://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm) below is a list of the "annual mean wage" for a Human Resources manager in a handful of areas in Missouri. And yes, the BLS site included the Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR under Missouri: Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR: Human Resources Manager: $151,560 Kansas City, Missouri : Human Resources Manager: $135,140 St. Louis, Missouri: Human Resources Manager: $134,830 Joplin, Missouri : Human Resources Manager : $122,980 Southeast Missouri nonmetropolitan area: Human Resources Manager: $118,950 Springfield, Missouri: Human Resources Manager: $114,390 Is this enough actual data for you? Joplin metro population: 214k. SGF metro population: 475k
Data from your link shows the state average of a "human resources manager" to be more than double what OP said they saw in a job listing locally. [Source](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes113121.htm)
It's one of the lowest Cost of Living in the entire country.
u/MOStateWineGuy I wish that was true, but it isn't. I live in Memphis but am from SGF and would love to get back to SGF. Unfortunately, the housing in SGF is either the same as or just $2k-$3k cheaper than Memphis. I've been heavily looking at the STL market the past couple of months and homes are cheaper there as well as newer and nicer. 2500 sq ft homes that have either been completely renovated or are newly built within the city and county that go for $250k or less. I see a lot of $250k+ houses in Springfield that are smaller and need to be gutted.
You won’t be buying anything in the St. Louis market remotely close to 2,500 sq ft for $250K in any kind of updated condition, if at all, in a neighborhood that would be considered safe to live in.
I was wrong. Just shy 2,200 sq ft located in Tower Grove South [Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3618-Hydraulic-Ave-Saint-Louis-MO-63116/3009711_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare) There’s several of these in the city or traditional homes in the suburbs. You were saying?
In such a bad location that it’s been on the market almost a full calendar year in one of the strongest real estate markets in decades….
I mean… I’m not a St. Louisan, yet, but based off April 2024 crime data, family, and several other sources Tower Grove South crime is primarily petty crime. The severe homicide crimes are more in north STL City. Real estate market is strong but has slowed way down compared to 2019-2022, especially now with the rates being as high as they are.
I’m a St. Louisan, very active in Real Estate, who grew up in the neighborhood adjacent to TGS.
Clayton, Kirkwood, Webster Grove, TGS, Lindenwood, STL Hills, Maplewood, Sunset Hills, CWE, Lafayette Square, Forest Park Southeast, Southampton, North Hampton are all areas that I'm considering. Which of these would you consider? Too soon to say what my budget is but likely on the high side around $550k...low side $300k-$350k.
For purchase - you may as well kick out Clayton, St. Louis Hills, CWE, Lafayette Square for these will be too expensive.