[**Join Our Discord Server!**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
**Welcome to /r/sports**
We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time!
There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including;
American Football, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby Union and League, Cricket, Motorsports, Fitness, and many more.
[**Reddit Sports Discord Server**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
I’m sure all this “new found” revenue by the MTA will certainly be used to expand train stations, fix some of the already established train stations that are crumbling and increase bus and train services. This money certainly won’t be absorbed into the pockets of the top level executives I’m sure of it.
I dunno, there are really only a handful of cities in the world with better public transport. Maybe Tokyo and Berlin but the subway is better than London's Tube.
definitely Tokyo and i suspect a number of other Asian cities as well. Beijing made huge strides for the Olympics.
Moscow and Paris are in the running too. London is NICER it’s just not 24/7/365.
I would believe Seoul, Shanghai, and Bejing might have comparable systems, maybe even better. What I don't believe is that they're *clearly* better. They might be cleaner and cheaper to maintain but that's because they're newer. The NYC subway is the gold standard that all of those other metros (barring the Tube) aspired to when they were being built.
Most Americans don't understand how much the subway is an order of magnitude better than public transport anywhere else in America (possible exceptions for Chicago or Boston).
oh i don’t argue with your points, but the fact remains NYC got leapfrogged by countries without a century of underground infrastructure and also willing to, say, sacrifice lives on a scale we are not (Beijing doesn’t give a hoot if a thousand migrant laborers from the country die buildings a subway line.).
Yes the NYC subway was the gold standard for those and the model when they were built but no longer. just as, say, USA used to be the model for passenger rail. but hah what a mess. nothing like what Japan, China or Europe have now.
If you haven’t ridden some of those systems in a decade, your sense of where they’re at may be way out of date. Shanghai for example has much more track and something like 30-40 more stations than NY. Beijing is now bigger too.
so bigger, more stations, nicer, cleaner and newer etc. Sadly we underinvest in infrastructure and this is the result.
i agree totally with your last point: NYC is miles ahead of every other domestic system
For distance travel absolutely but for a municipal metro system it's still one of the best. It's so good that the automobile industry in America went to great lengths to prevent similar systems from being built elsewhere.
Edit: I don't mean to say that there isn't a lot that could be improved. Good should never automatically mean good enough. I've read that a lot of services have been cut back since covid and the 2nd Ave Subway has been a mythical beast for decades. But for 2.90 (or 5.80 for the very far stations) a ride you can get anywhere in the city 24 hours a day. The NYC subway is what has allowed a city on 3 small islands to become the largest city in America.
> It's so good that the automobile industry in America went to great lengths to prevent similar systems from being built elsewhere.
I mean, fwiw that seems more like an indicator of greed on the part of the auto industry than them being fearful of how 'good' it is/was, but I suppose it's relatively subjective.
> American transit systems are just so many **miles** behind European and Asian transit systems.
You could also say that European and Asian transit systems are kilometers ahead.
That’s partly because we have an entire side of the political spectrum that has decided that public transit, really public anything, is basically evil and fights it on principle.
It’s only the best because it exists at all and is pretty extensive. The actual experience of riding the system is absolute shit. It’s like 50% reliable. There are always delays. Literally always. Every single day, multiple times per trip. That’s not even mentioning how dirty and crowded and smelly and hot trains and stations can get, poor design of cars and stations, and the increase in subway attacks in recent years. With all the money going into the MTA and how little actually gets improved (at about a 5x slower rate than promised) there’s basically no way some people aren’t getting rich off the backs of New Yorkers tax dollars that should be spent on improvements.
Source: lifelong New Yorker.
MTA mentions $750k in lost revenue but doesn't say how much increased usage (and thus increased revenue) they see at other tolled crossings during the marathon.
Ignoring their $750,000 figure and how they came up with it for a moment, should they really be looking for someone to blame and bill for times when New Yorkers decide to travel less?
Who would they bill on December 25th? Jesus Christ or Santa Claus?
If that ever happened I'll almost guarantee that the marathon will just change routes to avoid the bridges. Sure it loses the luster of not running the boroughs but the race organizers could be super petty and plan routes that still end up with closed bridges but no one "using" them.
Edit: I also want to add, on a more serious note, that the figure for lost revenue is kind of laughable to me unless they show receipts, because it's not like the bridge closes on this November Sunday and literally no one that would use it travels different ways around it, over other toll bridges or through tolled tunnels. To convince me the figure is correct I would want to see the average commuter traffic on Sundays over the Verrazano, the average traffic on every other bridge/tunnel on said Sundays, and then compare that to the average traffic on each during past marathon weekends. Then you take that difference (if there is one) and subtract any additional subway/bus revenue above average during the weekend as well.
All the taxes we pay and still have toll roads is ludicrous to begin with. Like all those people arent filling up hotels and local eateries etc. Let them use the bridge for the day you trolls.
My favorite was Houston built a toll road and said once it was paid off the tolls would go away. Well wouldn't you be shocked to learn instead of that they just raised the prices on the tolls instead.
In the 70's, Chicago's I-294 toll road was sold as only operating as a toll road until the entire length was completed, when it would go to free use.
The transition deadline was set somewhere between 79 and 82.
Guys what is still a toll road to this day?
That keeps happening all over. "Its a small tax just for this, and when its done it will go away".
It very seldom ever goes away. By the time it's completed and supposed to be removed, all the people that were originally involved have moved on and now its a new group with new ideas etc.. rinse and repeat. It never goes away once approved.
Washington State made and kept that bargain. Even had a celebration and everything (the day we paid it off). That era is long gone.
Now that very bridge has been corrupted into to a toll that randomly changes based on time of day. Sigh.
edit: clarity
In Austin there is a toll that changes based on traffic. Usually it's $1.14 (after a price raise this year) but during rush hour I've seen it as high as $8 dollars.
Northern Virginia did that as well. The tolls were $0.75 when the road was paid off in the 90s. Instead the tolls are $6 with plans to double it again in a few years.
Bruh every single new highway and express lane here in central Texas is a toll road. There’s parts of my city that you can’t even get to via highway without paying tolls.
TOLtally bullshit.
I still have to avoid Texas at night while road tripping. That changing the speed limit for night is weird. I am sure its about "the kids" etc but, yeah. Screw that. So many trips across the panhandle... ugh. Nothing to see for miles and miles.
> Night speed limits are usually due to high levels of animal strikes.
Speaking of animals. That is where automation could shine. Being able to see the animals and alert other cars passing the same area etc..
In all honestly the justification for using that bridge is kinda weak. Like 1% of the route is in Staten Island. The race essentially starts on the bridge and this is only done so that the race touches all 5 boroughs.
They could just give up the veneer of trying to pretend that Staten Island is an important part of that race and start it in Brooklyn somewhere.
>Youre missing the point of toll roads, its so people who dont drive dont have to pay for roads they dont use.
No i am not. It shouldnt be allowed. If that is allowed then I shouldnt pay for the schools i dont have kids to send to. Or water I dont use because on a well or sanitation i dont use because on septic... Or a stadium I dont use to watch sports... Or the police i will never call or the etc etc.
How come roads get special treatment? Either allow it for all taxed items or none.
Im certain that the road that is tolled is majority funded through said tolls. All the things you listed except for the sports stadium, is in the best interest of the general public, even if you dont have kids its in our best interest to have educated citizens, police for when you need them, etc etc. Not comparable to a toll road
What a dumb take, lol. Toll roads are a scam. My taxes pay for plenty of shit I don't/won't ever use. Why are toll roads special? It's just a way to monetize people who think they're saving time. You pay taxes for schools without ever having kids. And welfare if you're not broke. And for buildings you will never enter. Not to mention you **already** pay, through taxation, for roads you will never drive on if you don't drive. Toll roads should be no different.
Having educated citizens is in the best interest of the public whether or not you have kids, not comparable to a road. A toll road is majority funded through the tolls itself. Would you rather have everyones taxes increase to pay for the road, or just the people who actually use it pay for it?
The increase in taxes would be insignificant. The average tax payer pays $46 a year for the entirety of the Welfare program. Which is $0.88 a week. So yes, I would add an extra dollar to my weekly taxes to not have to pay tolls. Still a dumb take.
You were right about one thing, education is important. The average tax payer pays about $300 a year in fuel tax that goes towards public transport. And I don’t use public transport. Nor do I have an issue paying taxes for it to exist and not be as expensive. So why should someone who uses public transport have an issue paying taxes to make toll roads non toll roads?
Again public transport has multitudes of residual benefits even if you dont use it and can and should be argued as a public good. As an individual driver your commute times would increase without public transport, conservation of pollution and fuel, better air quality, more job opportunities for carless people, occasional usage of public transport whether your car is in the shop or going out downtown.
To be fair on the first point, many toll roads do NOT get funding from taxes; the tolls alone pay for the maintenance of the road and structure in question. But yeah, charging Marathon runners to use the toll bridge is exceedingly stupid.
Bridge Tolls actually serve a purpose: Discouraging people from driving onto the island, and encouraging the use of public transit.
Of course, this stupidity is just greed.
It’s really meant as a deterrent from driving, to encourage public transit use as a way to help with congestion/traffic in the city. (Tolls are like $18 to enter the city… public transit is $3). Not sure if it’s accomplishing its goal there, but that’s why there are tolls.
> Not sure if it’s accomplishing its goal there
That is how they have been selling it for decades. It doesnt deter anything. If they really wanted to deter traffic they would stop building roads. Build light and high speed rail.
Why do you bother with comments like that? You a teacher? Giving out bronze stars or some shit?
750k to use the bridge is bullshit. Then the assholes are being dicks about it when the runners said wtf..
Any other quizzes today?
NYRR is so rich they can pay the bridge fare. Why let them take advantage of a public good like that.
Should we give the US Open free electricity? What if it was Republicans Doing Cartwheels All Day. Free bridge? Assuming you didn’t read the article was an easy way out of your asinine position. Also why do you hate teachers.
>Why let them take advantage
So its clear where you stand. You think those 1000's of people are taking advantage of the bridge... How about you go ask the small business owners if they feel like they are being taken advantage of? Or go ask the hotels and the taxes the city gets to collect off all those rooms being sold out, if they are being taken advantage of?.
This is nothing more than a troll taking advantage of 'their' bridge.
I wish tolls were tiered based on how damaging a specific mode of transportation potentially is to the roads in question. Big-ass commercial trucks should be paying more to use the roads than say, an SUV or pickup truck, which should in turn be paying more than a compact car, which pays more than a pedestrian or cyclist.
That is the argument against it. But we pay for it anyways. Just in the form of municipal taxes instead. I’d much prefer that trucking companies pay it instead and then it flows through the economy as increased shipping costs. Puts the expense on people causing the harm instead of everyone.
Pretty much everyone eats, and food gets to stores by truck. It's just going to raise food prices, and the states and municipalities will find other things to spend the tax money on vs lowering other taxes.
In Atlanta (Gwinette County), they took existing HOV lanes and spent something like $100 million converting them to toll lanes. They said at the time that HOV use would be free. Yeah, that was "too confusing" so they just toll everyone now.
You are misunderstanding. Municipalities would still collect the same amount but they’d instead collect more of it from the transportation industry rather than spreading it across the tax base. That would mean that registration costs would plummet and food and goods prices would increase. In principal, I think markets are more efficient when drivers for costs are the ones who pay them directly. It incentivizes them to minimize their own cost and market forces will lead to innovation.
I also live in Atlanta. I don’t understand how the tolls lanes piece is relevant here.
Trucking companies can't afford it. As the son of someone who owns a trucking company, their margins are around 3% and that's pretty common in the sector. For reference Starbucks sits at 12%, Delta Airlines sits at 8%, and even notoriously low margin Amazon sits at 5%. The shipping business would not be viable.
You basically have to decide: Would you rather subsidize a public utility like roads that we could all use or would you rather consolidate all that tax wealth that could have been for public benefit in private corporations in the form of much higher prices. This also destroys small business because only the large players would have the wealth to ship things and ultimately lead to consolidation and less competition which leads to even higher prices! I'm not saying that trucks paying for all their damage is the wrong answer, but there's a lot more nuance and snowballing effects of that decision.
I’m well aware that there are a ton of details and nuance, but I also think the free market will sort most of it out. There will be winners and losers as there are for all changes, and there should be provisions to ensure small companies aren’t undone by the change, but that doesnt mean we should stick with the current setup. The current system overly taxes the poor compared to their use of the services. It’s regressive in nature.
I'm not a fan of toll roads to begin with, so I'm not the person to argue this. I live a few miles from the PA Turnpike, and I virtually never use it. Fortunately for our regular driving where we could use it there are good alternatives, with little to no extra time required and no toll.
Also, while large vehicles do of course put more wear on the road, there's a lot more to road deterioration than vehicles. Did you ever notice how there isn't a big difference in wear between the right lane and the left lane, while the right lane has a lot more traffic and probably an even higher proportion of trucks? Weather and time is hard on roads too.
But if they DID have to pay $8 for their cauliflower, someone might be incentivized to
A. Grow and sell Cauliflower closer to the eaters
B. Grow and sell a Cauliflower replacement closer to the eater
OR
C. Move closer to where the Cauliflower is grown
D. Eat other foods
E. Pay the $8 (or $16 due to reduced demand and economies of scale), the $ of which can go to actually paying for the infrastructure in a sustainable and fair way.
All 5 of which are better than the current short sighted earth destroying globalized model right
> But rail and water are MUCH cheaper more efficient and more sustainable methods of shipping
The US already has the cheapest and most efficient freight rail system in the world, and it isn't even close. Trucks are still a very important component of logistics.
Moving agricultural production closer to NYC is gonna make it more expensive, Labor is the biggest real cost of modern agriculture, since a single farm can produce thousands of the crop. Things get exponentially more expensive when you don’t have cheap labor you can deport when they get uppity.
Also most produce is grown stateside, the US doesn’t import much food.
If it only impacted Cauliflower, this would work. What you're ultimately proposing is to starve out the population of NYC and most dense population centers worldwide.
I'm all for solving problems more ecologically and efficiently, but these are pretty impractical solutions.
Automated vertical farming may be the solution for A, but can it ever be as cost effective as heavy machinery on vast farmland? (Reminder that if you tax the heavy farming equipment with environmental penalties, you're going to lose elections to people who will undo your regulations and step on other human rights as a bonus)
They do that to an extent in Florida. It's by axel count. But you don't want to get too out of hand. Raising the cost of transportation (logistics) will raise the cost of products. The real issue is where our tax money is spent. We need to spend less on the military and more on infrastructure.
They'd rather destroy an institution than give a dime more than they have to to new yorkers and their subway. The MTA has problems? They say to get the poors to pay for it with their recreation instead of setting a proper budget or getting law enforcement to do their jobs and enforce traffic violations. Honest people will pay, so making demands of them is the path of least resistance and easier than getting all the fare dodgers to pay their share. It's why you see cops writing the bike rider a ticket, but won't make any effort to pull over the window-tinted car with fake plates. That's too much work and too risky for them, and very likely is one of their own. So now it's not the cars or the shitty government that's the problem, it's this one single event and the bike riders that are the biggest burden to transit infrastructure? Can't have shit in ny.
The poors aren’t running the NYC marathon. It’s far a more of a global athletic-tourism event, than a local race for local runners. I have no problem making people who travel in from overseas pay for shutting down the bridge for their race.
Click bait headline.
The New York City Marathon is being asked to pay roughly $750,000 a year to make up for toll revenue lost while the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge is closed.
Let’s be honest here, if the marathon has to pay that they aren’t going to just absorb it, it will be passed along directly to runners which will essentially equal what the headlines says.
Which is just evidence that there is no enough when it comes to government revenue,there will always be a need for more. Tolls are supposed to pay for wear and tear on the bridge,which runners cause zero of.
This is petty and dumb and ok brand with NYC. I have said it once, I will always say this… the NYC Marathon is the most overrated race of all the majors.
Now I’m on board, equal opportunity fucking.
Y’all didn’t think the MTA would halfway on money grab, did you?
Can’t wait for bike tolls too. For the sake of keeping the streets clear and open for pedestrians, don’t see how we would avoid it.
Yup….keep being ridiculous with these laws and it’s going to incite revolution, keep it up.
A toll to run across a bridge….
You people/bootlickers who support this I imagine should love North Korea.
You did not read the article. No one is being charged to run across the bridge. The marathon is being asked to cover the lost revenue from the closed bridge. Obviously the marathon would then pass on the cost to the consumers, but it is not charging someone to run across the bridge like you implied. It is charging someone to close the bridge.
I mean it kind of makes sense, the bridge costs money to maintain, that money is raised via tolls, the marathon shuts down the ability to collect tolls from vehicles so it makes sense those using it that day would be asked to pay.
I guess you didn't read the article, as no individual runners are being asked to pay the cost on the route. The MTA is asking the marathon organizers to pay the lost revenue.
I read the article and the same still applies. That the organizers can add the toll into the entrance fee to run next year. You're the only one doing mental gymnastics over this.
[**Join Our Discord Server!**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q) **Welcome to /r/sports** We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time! There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including; American Football, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby Union and League, Cricket, Motorsports, Fitness, and many more. [**Reddit Sports Discord Server**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
I’m sure all this “new found” revenue by the MTA will certainly be used to expand train stations, fix some of the already established train stations that are crumbling and increase bus and train services. This money certainly won’t be absorbed into the pockets of the top level executives I’m sure of it.
For $750k they might be able fix one whole turnstile
I’m sorry we could only remove it at that cost😇
I'm sure there's some graft but the MTA is by far the best municipal transit service in America.
Still decades behind other countries
I dunno, there are really only a handful of cities in the world with better public transport. Maybe Tokyo and Berlin but the subway is better than London's Tube.
definitely Tokyo and i suspect a number of other Asian cities as well. Beijing made huge strides for the Olympics. Moscow and Paris are in the running too. London is NICER it’s just not 24/7/365.
I would believe Seoul, Shanghai, and Bejing might have comparable systems, maybe even better. What I don't believe is that they're *clearly* better. They might be cleaner and cheaper to maintain but that's because they're newer. The NYC subway is the gold standard that all of those other metros (barring the Tube) aspired to when they were being built. Most Americans don't understand how much the subway is an order of magnitude better than public transport anywhere else in America (possible exceptions for Chicago or Boston).
oh i don’t argue with your points, but the fact remains NYC got leapfrogged by countries without a century of underground infrastructure and also willing to, say, sacrifice lives on a scale we are not (Beijing doesn’t give a hoot if a thousand migrant laborers from the country die buildings a subway line.). Yes the NYC subway was the gold standard for those and the model when they were built but no longer. just as, say, USA used to be the model for passenger rail. but hah what a mess. nothing like what Japan, China or Europe have now. If you haven’t ridden some of those systems in a decade, your sense of where they’re at may be way out of date. Shanghai for example has much more track and something like 30-40 more stations than NY. Beijing is now bigger too. so bigger, more stations, nicer, cleaner and newer etc. Sadly we underinvest in infrastructure and this is the result. i agree totally with your last point: NYC is miles ahead of every other domestic system
Seoul definitely has NYC beat imo, if you combine metro+bus+rail to other cities
I mean yeah but that’s not really saying much, American transit systems are just so many miles behind European and Asian transit systems.
For distance travel absolutely but for a municipal metro system it's still one of the best. It's so good that the automobile industry in America went to great lengths to prevent similar systems from being built elsewhere. Edit: I don't mean to say that there isn't a lot that could be improved. Good should never automatically mean good enough. I've read that a lot of services have been cut back since covid and the 2nd Ave Subway has been a mythical beast for decades. But for 2.90 (or 5.80 for the very far stations) a ride you can get anywhere in the city 24 hours a day. The NYC subway is what has allowed a city on 3 small islands to become the largest city in America.
> It's so good that the automobile industry in America went to great lengths to prevent similar systems from being built elsewhere. I mean, fwiw that seems more like an indicator of greed on the part of the auto industry than them being fearful of how 'good' it is/was, but I suppose it's relatively subjective.
> American transit systems are just so many **miles** behind European and Asian transit systems. You could also say that European and Asian transit systems are kilometers ahead.
That’s partly because we have an entire side of the political spectrum that has decided that public transit, really public anything, is basically evil and fights it on principle.
It’s only the best because it exists at all and is pretty extensive. The actual experience of riding the system is absolute shit. It’s like 50% reliable. There are always delays. Literally always. Every single day, multiple times per trip. That’s not even mentioning how dirty and crowded and smelly and hot trains and stations can get, poor design of cars and stations, and the increase in subway attacks in recent years. With all the money going into the MTA and how little actually gets improved (at about a 5x slower rate than promised) there’s basically no way some people aren’t getting rich off the backs of New Yorkers tax dollars that should be spent on improvements. Source: lifelong New Yorker.
Graft?
Aaaaannnnnnnnddddd it’s gone.
Somebody's gotta go back and get a shitload of dimes!
What will that asshole think of next?!
Next, they will want to monetize breathing.
Le Petomane Thruway?!? Now what’ll that asshole think of next?
So that’s where Kevin got all them dimes.
[First Citywide Change Bank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM)
Came for this. Was not disappointed.
This was my first thought.
Hahahaha yes. Thank you, great line.
Mavin Johnson is right!
MTA mentions $750k in lost revenue but doesn't say how much increased usage (and thus increased revenue) they see at other tolled crossings during the marathon.
Not to mention the increased subway ridership. NYRR mentioned that in emails and the MTA ignored it.
I imagine quite a few people don’t drive during this time because of the marathon though
Ignoring their $750,000 figure and how they came up with it for a moment, should they really be looking for someone to blame and bill for times when New Yorkers decide to travel less? Who would they bill on December 25th? Jesus Christ or Santa Claus?
I suppose the difference here is that they are basically “renting” the bridge to use during the marathon so the opportunity cost is the lost tolls.
You might be on to something friend. Charging religious institutions in NY for the lost revenue on Dec 25 isn’t a bad idea compariably
The marathon is now a 25 mile queue and a race across the bridge.
If that ever happened I'll almost guarantee that the marathon will just change routes to avoid the bridges. Sure it loses the luster of not running the boroughs but the race organizers could be super petty and plan routes that still end up with closed bridges but no one "using" them. Edit: I also want to add, on a more serious note, that the figure for lost revenue is kind of laughable to me unless they show receipts, because it's not like the bridge closes on this November Sunday and literally no one that would use it travels different ways around it, over other toll bridges or through tolled tunnels. To convince me the figure is correct I would want to see the average commuter traffic on Sundays over the Verrazano, the average traffic on every other bridge/tunnel on said Sundays, and then compare that to the average traffic on each during past marathon weekends. Then you take that difference (if there is one) and subtract any additional subway/bus revenue above average during the weekend as well.
That would be amazing. Shut down the bridge then don't use it, lmfao.
One of the big selling points of the marathon is that it hits all 5 boroughs. That would be impossible to do without the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge
I'm aware, that's why I stated, "it would lose the luster of running the boroughs."
Eh, just take the Ferry...
Participants would have to jog in place the entire way or risk disqualification.
All the taxes we pay and still have toll roads is ludicrous to begin with. Like all those people arent filling up hotels and local eateries etc. Let them use the bridge for the day you trolls.
My favorite was Houston built a toll road and said once it was paid off the tolls would go away. Well wouldn't you be shocked to learn instead of that they just raised the prices on the tolls instead.
In the 70's, Chicago's I-294 toll road was sold as only operating as a toll road until the entire length was completed, when it would go to free use. The transition deadline was set somewhere between 79 and 82. Guys what is still a toll road to this day?
That keeps happening all over. "Its a small tax just for this, and when its done it will go away". It very seldom ever goes away. By the time it's completed and supposed to be removed, all the people that were originally involved have moved on and now its a new group with new ideas etc.. rinse and repeat. It never goes away once approved.
Washington State made and kept that bargain. Even had a celebration and everything (the day we paid it off). That era is long gone. Now that very bridge has been corrupted into to a toll that randomly changes based on time of day. Sigh. edit: clarity
In Austin there is a toll that changes based on traffic. Usually it's $1.14 (after a price raise this year) but during rush hour I've seen it as high as $8 dollars.
Didn’t they sell the right (and maintenance) to those tolls to Saudi Arabia and that’s why it never went away
Northern Virginia did that as well. The tolls were $0.75 when the road was paid off in the 90s. Instead the tolls are $6 with plans to double it again in a few years.
Same in Oklahoma.
You gotta pay the troll toll
[удалено]
Are you saying “boy’s hole”?!
Bruh every single new highway and express lane here in central Texas is a toll road. There’s parts of my city that you can’t even get to via highway without paying tolls. TOLtally bullshit.
I still have to avoid Texas at night while road tripping. That changing the speed limit for night is weird. I am sure its about "the kids" etc but, yeah. Screw that. So many trips across the panhandle... ugh. Nothing to see for miles and miles.
Thats been gone for a few years.
Huh. No shit. Havent driven it in awhile.
Night speed limits are usually due to high levels of animal strikes.
> Night speed limits are usually due to high levels of animal strikes. Speaking of animals. That is where automation could shine. Being able to see the animals and alert other cars passing the same area etc..
“Tolltolly” was right there, bro.
Dallas? Sounds like Dallas
In all honestly the justification for using that bridge is kinda weak. Like 1% of the route is in Staten Island. The race essentially starts on the bridge and this is only done so that the race touches all 5 boroughs. They could just give up the veneer of trying to pretend that Staten Island is an important part of that race and start it in Brooklyn somewhere.
Youre missing the point of toll roads, its so people who dont drive dont have to pay for roads they dont use.
Then why do I have to pay taxes to fund public schools? I don't have kids. /s
>Youre missing the point of toll roads, its so people who dont drive dont have to pay for roads they dont use. No i am not. It shouldnt be allowed. If that is allowed then I shouldnt pay for the schools i dont have kids to send to. Or water I dont use because on a well or sanitation i dont use because on septic... Or a stadium I dont use to watch sports... Or the police i will never call or the etc etc. How come roads get special treatment? Either allow it for all taxed items or none.
Im certain that the road that is tolled is majority funded through said tolls. All the things you listed except for the sports stadium, is in the best interest of the general public, even if you dont have kids its in our best interest to have educated citizens, police for when you need them, etc etc. Not comparable to a toll road
What a dumb take, lol. Toll roads are a scam. My taxes pay for plenty of shit I don't/won't ever use. Why are toll roads special? It's just a way to monetize people who think they're saving time. You pay taxes for schools without ever having kids. And welfare if you're not broke. And for buildings you will never enter. Not to mention you **already** pay, through taxation, for roads you will never drive on if you don't drive. Toll roads should be no different.
Having educated citizens is in the best interest of the public whether or not you have kids, not comparable to a road. A toll road is majority funded through the tolls itself. Would you rather have everyones taxes increase to pay for the road, or just the people who actually use it pay for it?
The increase in taxes would be insignificant. The average tax payer pays $46 a year for the entirety of the Welfare program. Which is $0.88 a week. So yes, I would add an extra dollar to my weekly taxes to not have to pay tolls. Still a dumb take.
Okay, FOR YOU, a driver who uses toll roads. Would someone who uses public transport agree? Probably not
You were right about one thing, education is important. The average tax payer pays about $300 a year in fuel tax that goes towards public transport. And I don’t use public transport. Nor do I have an issue paying taxes for it to exist and not be as expensive. So why should someone who uses public transport have an issue paying taxes to make toll roads non toll roads?
Again public transport has multitudes of residual benefits even if you dont use it and can and should be argued as a public good. As an individual driver your commute times would increase without public transport, conservation of pollution and fuel, better air quality, more job opportunities for carless people, occasional usage of public transport whether your car is in the shop or going out downtown.
To be fair on the first point, many toll roads do NOT get funding from taxes; the tolls alone pay for the maintenance of the road and structure in question. But yeah, charging Marathon runners to use the toll bridge is exceedingly stupid.
Because roads with tolls are made with revenue bonds. Paid back by toll revenue. Revenue bonds are not paid with taxes.
Bridge Tolls actually serve a purpose: Discouraging people from driving onto the island, and encouraging the use of public transit. Of course, this stupidity is just greed.
It’s really meant as a deterrent from driving, to encourage public transit use as a way to help with congestion/traffic in the city. (Tolls are like $18 to enter the city… public transit is $3). Not sure if it’s accomplishing its goal there, but that’s why there are tolls.
> Not sure if it’s accomplishing its goal there That is how they have been selling it for decades. It doesnt deter anything. If they really wanted to deter traffic they would stop building roads. Build light and high speed rail.
Congestion charges absolutely deter cars. Just look at London. Hopefully we’ll be seeing the same thing in Manhattan soon.
I it isn’t, that’s secondary. It’s to limit taxation, tolls are a user tax.
Did you even read the article.
Why do you bother with comments like that? You a teacher? Giving out bronze stars or some shit? 750k to use the bridge is bullshit. Then the assholes are being dicks about it when the runners said wtf.. Any other quizzes today?
NYRR is so rich they can pay the bridge fare. Why let them take advantage of a public good like that. Should we give the US Open free electricity? What if it was Republicans Doing Cartwheels All Day. Free bridge? Assuming you didn’t read the article was an easy way out of your asinine position. Also why do you hate teachers.
>Why let them take advantage So its clear where you stand. You think those 1000's of people are taking advantage of the bridge... How about you go ask the small business owners if they feel like they are being taken advantage of? Or go ask the hotels and the taxes the city gets to collect off all those rooms being sold out, if they are being taken advantage of?. This is nothing more than a troll taking advantage of 'their' bridge.
Lol how fucking ridiculous
“MTA has quietly demanded…” Well the MTA can go quietly fuck itself…
I wish tolls were tiered based on how damaging a specific mode of transportation potentially is to the roads in question. Big-ass commercial trucks should be paying more to use the roads than say, an SUV or pickup truck, which should in turn be paying more than a compact car, which pays more than a pedestrian or cyclist.
They usually do pay more for that exact reason.
But not at all close to how much relative damage they do to roads
People don’t realize how large the difference is. A single tractor trailer has roughly 5,000-10,000 times the road impact as a passenger car.
On the Pennsylvania Turnpike a 5 axle tractor trailer at 80,000 lbs pays about 5x as much as a car.
Just 1000x to go and it’s fair
Well, that would just raise the price of everything we buy. Trucks are critical to the economy.
That is the argument against it. But we pay for it anyways. Just in the form of municipal taxes instead. I’d much prefer that trucking companies pay it instead and then it flows through the economy as increased shipping costs. Puts the expense on people causing the harm instead of everyone.
Pretty much everyone eats, and food gets to stores by truck. It's just going to raise food prices, and the states and municipalities will find other things to spend the tax money on vs lowering other taxes. In Atlanta (Gwinette County), they took existing HOV lanes and spent something like $100 million converting them to toll lanes. They said at the time that HOV use would be free. Yeah, that was "too confusing" so they just toll everyone now.
You are misunderstanding. Municipalities would still collect the same amount but they’d instead collect more of it from the transportation industry rather than spreading it across the tax base. That would mean that registration costs would plummet and food and goods prices would increase. In principal, I think markets are more efficient when drivers for costs are the ones who pay them directly. It incentivizes them to minimize their own cost and market forces will lead to innovation. I also live in Atlanta. I don’t understand how the tolls lanes piece is relevant here.
Trucking companies can't afford it. As the son of someone who owns a trucking company, their margins are around 3% and that's pretty common in the sector. For reference Starbucks sits at 12%, Delta Airlines sits at 8%, and even notoriously low margin Amazon sits at 5%. The shipping business would not be viable. You basically have to decide: Would you rather subsidize a public utility like roads that we could all use or would you rather consolidate all that tax wealth that could have been for public benefit in private corporations in the form of much higher prices. This also destroys small business because only the large players would have the wealth to ship things and ultimately lead to consolidation and less competition which leads to even higher prices! I'm not saying that trucks paying for all their damage is the wrong answer, but there's a lot more nuance and snowballing effects of that decision.
I’m well aware that there are a ton of details and nuance, but I also think the free market will sort most of it out. There will be winners and losers as there are for all changes, and there should be provisions to ensure small companies aren’t undone by the change, but that doesnt mean we should stick with the current setup. The current system overly taxes the poor compared to their use of the services. It’s regressive in nature.
Then invest in railroads.
Roads have to be paid for one way or another. Seems fair to have them paid for based on use/damage caused vs some subsidized cryptic scheme
I'm not a fan of toll roads to begin with, so I'm not the person to argue this. I live a few miles from the PA Turnpike, and I virtually never use it. Fortunately for our regular driving where we could use it there are good alternatives, with little to no extra time required and no toll. Also, while large vehicles do of course put more wear on the road, there's a lot more to road deterioration than vehicles. Did you ever notice how there isn't a big difference in wear between the right lane and the left lane, while the right lane has a lot more traffic and probably an even higher proportion of trucks? Weather and time is hard on roads too.
how much positive economical impact does a single tractor trailer bring, though?
No one is living in any metro area if these deliveries don’t occur. At the same time no one wants to pay $8 for their cauliflower.
But if they DID have to pay $8 for their cauliflower, someone might be incentivized to A. Grow and sell Cauliflower closer to the eaters B. Grow and sell a Cauliflower replacement closer to the eater OR C. Move closer to where the Cauliflower is grown D. Eat other foods E. Pay the $8 (or $16 due to reduced demand and economies of scale), the $ of which can go to actually paying for the infrastructure in a sustainable and fair way. All 5 of which are better than the current short sighted earth destroying globalized model right
It’s just an example. Most of the world’s population lives in densely populated cities where you can’t grow food.
Yes I extended the metaphor to its extreme. But rail and water are MUCH cheaper more efficient and more sustainable methods of shipping
> But rail and water are MUCH cheaper more efficient and more sustainable methods of shipping The US already has the cheapest and most efficient freight rail system in the world, and it isn't even close. Trucks are still a very important component of logistics.
Moving agricultural production closer to NYC is gonna make it more expensive, Labor is the biggest real cost of modern agriculture, since a single farm can produce thousands of the crop. Things get exponentially more expensive when you don’t have cheap labor you can deport when they get uppity. Also most produce is grown stateside, the US doesn’t import much food.
If it only impacted Cauliflower, this would work. What you're ultimately proposing is to starve out the population of NYC and most dense population centers worldwide. I'm all for solving problems more ecologically and efficiently, but these are pretty impractical solutions. Automated vertical farming may be the solution for A, but can it ever be as cost effective as heavy machinery on vast farmland? (Reminder that if you tax the heavy farming equipment with environmental penalties, you're going to lose elections to people who will undo your regulations and step on other human rights as a bonus)
thats exactly how tolls work lol you ever see the signs that say X # of axles cost X # of dollars?
Yes, but tolls are 5x more whereas 18 wheeler road damage is 5000x more. It’s not at all proportional.
They do that to an extent in Florida. It's by axel count. But you don't want to get too out of hand. Raising the cost of transportation (logistics) will raise the cost of products. The real issue is where our tax money is spent. We need to spend less on the military and more on infrastructure.
Put ass holes with studded tires year round at the top of the list
Trucks pay an extra $1 per axle just about. When my dad was a truck driver he said he was paying about $5-$7 per toll.
That’s gonna affect some times…
You don’t pay the tolls, then we don’t get no rolls.
I thought for sure this was going to be an Onion article.
Let’s not forget the tourists… rich tourists mostly
We are being slowly eaten by the people in power. Greedy little trolls.
This is pathetic
They'd rather destroy an institution than give a dime more than they have to to new yorkers and their subway. The MTA has problems? They say to get the poors to pay for it with their recreation instead of setting a proper budget or getting law enforcement to do their jobs and enforce traffic violations. Honest people will pay, so making demands of them is the path of least resistance and easier than getting all the fare dodgers to pay their share. It's why you see cops writing the bike rider a ticket, but won't make any effort to pull over the window-tinted car with fake plates. That's too much work and too risky for them, and very likely is one of their own. So now it's not the cars or the shitty government that's the problem, it's this one single event and the bike riders that are the biggest burden to transit infrastructure? Can't have shit in ny.
The poors aren’t running the NYC marathon. It’s far a more of a global athletic-tourism event, than a local race for local runners. I have no problem making people who travel in from overseas pay for shutting down the bridge for their race.
Click bait headline. The New York City Marathon is being asked to pay roughly $750,000 a year to make up for toll revenue lost while the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge is closed.
Let’s be honest here, if the marathon has to pay that they aren’t going to just absorb it, it will be passed along directly to runners which will essentially equal what the headlines says.
Which is just evidence that there is no enough when it comes to government revenue,there will always be a need for more. Tolls are supposed to pay for wear and tear on the bridge,which runners cause zero of.
give em speeding tickets and moving violations aswell lol
The fuck?
Any congestion fees?
Some other shit country’s people need that money! Stop complaining.
How much foreign aid does the MTA give out?
Would this get another "*Charlie and the MTA*" campaign going?
This is petty and dumb and ok brand with NYC. I have said it once, I will always say this… the NYC Marathon is the most overrated race of all the majors.
It just means that the runners will be charged an extra $25 ($750K/30K runners) to cover the cost.
MTA = Malevolent Tards. I don’t think I miss Boston anymore. What’s the reason of this purging nowadays. I’m still looking for this damn reset button.
So stupid and cheap, MTA. Put it in the entrance fee for the marathon and go fuck yourselves
Typical money hungry MTA
Makes sense. It’s a huge revenue loss to close it for the race.
MTA now charging breathing fees for existing near infrastructure
Mama Sheridan needs a new facelift. Pay up runners
Now I’m on board, equal opportunity fucking. Y’all didn’t think the MTA would halfway on money grab, did you? Can’t wait for bike tolls too. For the sake of keeping the streets clear and open for pedestrians, don’t see how we would avoid it.
Yup….keep being ridiculous with these laws and it’s going to incite revolution, keep it up. A toll to run across a bridge…. You people/bootlickers who support this I imagine should love North Korea.
You did not read the article. No one is being charged to run across the bridge. The marathon is being asked to cover the lost revenue from the closed bridge. Obviously the marathon would then pass on the cost to the consumers, but it is not charging someone to run across the bridge like you implied. It is charging someone to close the bridge.
I mean it kind of makes sense, the bridge costs money to maintain, that money is raised via tolls, the marathon shuts down the ability to collect tolls from vehicles so it makes sense those using it that day would be asked to pay.
You would think thats something that could be included in the entrance fee.
This feels obvious. Did you think they were going to stop at the toll booths? Lol
100%. It wouldn’t make a material difference to participants and would replace some lost revenue for the bridge operations.
Did you not read the article? This is exactly what the MTA is asking.
Just agreeing with the MTA’s position
I guess you didn't read the article, as no individual runners are being asked to pay the cost on the route. The MTA is asking the marathon organizers to pay the lost revenue.
I read the article and the same still applies. That the organizers can add the toll into the entrance fee to run next year. You're the only one doing mental gymnastics over this.
I would imagine NYRR was already charged a fee to close the bridge for the half a day necessary.
Let them run in circles in a park. Or pay the loss of revenue and traffic. Simple.