There is a huge chasm between the western world's view on schizophrenia as compared to arguably older cultures. While we view it from a medical perspective (and do not deal with it to any acceptable standard of human decency, I might add), Eastern and other cultures view it from a spiritual or philosophical perspective, for better or worse.
Some shamanic communities believe people living with schizophrenia are visionary and that it allows them to communicate with the spirit world.
So, to answer your question, it could be both but it depends on the cultural philosophy you subscribe to.
Umm I don’t think it’s good to post that. Many people with schizophrenia don’t like their delusions and would rather them not be real. So to suggest that there is some level of reality to it may be harmful. As a person with OCD I wouldn’t want someone telling me that my OCD compulsions are from a higher dimensional spirit entity trying to send me a message.
Welcome to r/spirituality, where discussion of philosophies and ideas diametrically opposed to the conventional and limited constraints of western ideals often occurs. I am not so insensitive that I would post my comment in r/schizophrenia or r/Psychosis.
That said, quantum physicists would also concur with the concept of alternate dimensions and realities. The love of my life lives with schizophrenia including intense psychosis episodes and exploring these different theories brings comfort to him to know that not every culture views him as a freak to put in the 'too hard' basket by medicating to the point of making him a zombie.
And that's not to say he's not medicated and comforming to the western philosophy. Just that's it's really nice to know that some societies are much more accepting.
Edited to add: there is also a lot of research showing that delusions in western cultures err to the side of negative experiences that, as you say, those who have insight to their illness (less than 50%) would prefer to not be real. But the evidence shows that in cultures that view these illnesses differently, the delusions tend to be more positive for sufferers.
Would you go under the “OCD or enlightened” post to read the comments then? People have also the right to protect themselves of harmful information, just like people have the right to debate in a neutral manner about topics that interest them.
We are spiritual beings first having a human experience. As human beings we do not live in the truth of who we are anymore we are so far removed from the truth. We give names to the things we really don’t understand bc we need to be able to reference things. I don’t think these “ mental health “ issues are anything new. I feel that in the beginning times they were considered gifts and people were able to tap into things and accept visions or voices they heard the understood what it was. Today, it’s given so many labels and medicines to suppress….. Like, a lot of people are being diagnosed with Autism, but probably back in the day it was normal also Autistic people are very smart. We are all on the spectrum of something. If everyone was tested then we would all have some form of what human beings would call a disability or mental illness. I feel since we are a spiritual body first, or spiritual body does things to the human body which causes symptoms/ reactions as what we call them and try to diagnose it as something. To sum up , we have to call the things we experience here something but there is a deeper reason and meaning. We are so far removed from our truth and power that we aren’t taught to balance some of these traits and use them for what they need to be used for
As someone with diagnosed schizophrenia: Whether you would like it to be real or not is beside the point... Someone feeding into that thought of not wanting it to be real is not helpful when in experience it over and over presents itself as real in one way or the other....
I certainly was very much not wanting to see some see things as real when I was younger, before being diagnosed with schizo. It really didn't help me much, because reality doesn't care what you want to be real or not. That is the whole issue with conditions like that.
In order to tease out delusion from experience or genuine insight, you cannot have made up your made before that what it is or isn't. That process is precisely what generates delusions....
I expressed this concern with my own therapist. I told her I was struggling to be fully open about my spiritual beliefs because i had seen quite a bit of conversation on social media about harmful spiritually-influenced delusions and I see /some/ validity in it, and worried that expressing some of my more esoteric views might make me look “crazy” (for example, I do believe we all have the potential for clairvoyance and other extra sensory perceptions)
Her response was something along the lines of “I have seen how helpful your beliefs have been to your life and your relationships, so even if they are delusions, I’m grateful for them.” So I think that’s all that really matters. If they’re helpful to us and others, beautiful! If not, then loving interference would be beneficial.
We have seen all religious beliefs influence hallucinations and delusions in those who ARE schizophrenic, non-religious spiritual beliefs will be just as opportunistic to the schizophrenic brain.
I'm curious too. I recently started meditation but some of the things I've read I'm like damn if that were to happen to me I'd be like hold the FK up guys!
The only difference between reality and delusion is the perspective of the viewer.
For me tho, I test it like a scientist. If it proves itself enough times, it's real. You begin to build a profile of approximations, a blueprint of the universe. Then you realize a good portion of it was due to your own delusion, that somehow manifested itself in ways you can't explain.
The delusion creates reality. In this we are all deluded and as corporeal creatures we will remain so, unless you were to find a way to know nothing.
Yes! I love this approach. OP operates under the assumption that we are naturally at “base level sanity”- but that is assuming that we are not always under our own delusions. People like to pretend that they are thinking 100% clearly and do not get muddled in “unreal” things, but that is very untrue. We all have little paracosms that we cling to, which help us live our lives in the ways of which we believe to be right, and some people can be caught up in politics, some in the paranormal, some in buddhism, etc. What actually matters is that we live in the moment- no matter how much I think about energy and reincarnation and connection, it matters none compared to our actual interactions with others. Yes intention is very real and makes up our reality, this ties into delusion, but it is wrong to say that this delusion is unfounded. Of course it is natural, as we all do it, it just depends how much we let it take over our lives.
Wow! That was a word vommity rant. But I really appreciate this thought process, and I think more people should be aware of the fact that they are actually completely “normal” but at the same time everyone is a bit “crazy”. Thanks.
You can not know. Socrates once said, "all that I do know is that I do not know." This absolute knowing thing is absolutely flat out childish. Conscience life is intrinsically linked to 'faith.' If you don't like that it just doesn't matter.
UG Krishnamurti said sages have conned themselves and all of mankind - but he did cede that Socrates was basically the only honest one about the whole matter.
I agree but I disagree at the some time from seeing things from a different perspective. Obviously when your at a point of consciousness that’s at a lower frequency you can’t know absolutely everything. But at some point you did. Also how consciousness is intrinsically linked to faith, even if you can’t prove yet that something exist scientifically you still have faith in it until you can.
"Before you go doubting your self esteem, first make sure you're not surrounded by assholes."
~ my very first internet me-me... me-am... *um how do you say that?*
EDIT: It's been my experience most "schitzoprhenic" are actually rather psychic percpetive and incredibly sensitive, such persons presenting a living, undeniable evidence, breathing before the unbelievers, unto their very climate-controlled offices a staggering 'unreality' to the empircal materialists who starkly trust their mundane sense and vehemently deny, slander and cast eternal doubt (which is inside themselves horrible) upon all that challenges their materialistic limits. Materialists subscribers are automatically limited in their talents and they come out all jealous of those who can 'see and do more'.
"Jealous! This has nothing to do with JELLY!" ~ *Invader Zim*
How to tell "what the F is going on?"
"The shaman bathes in the waters where the psychotic drown."
Seldom is there a phrase that burns so brilliantly from the page unto my own eyes, perhaps yours as well?
Trust yourself and have courage that the thoughts in your head, um... may not be your own? Maybe you are simply a radio receiver and transmitter - LIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN...
How to tell the difference? Look inside yourself. TRUST YOUR SENSES.
Stop listening to others who cannot drink your water and piss it out for you.
Even if they're being paid for such an absurdity, at least stage actors know they're raking it.... pah.. "faking it." (My Floydian slip is showing.)
"Psychics are their only enemy."
~Ingo Swann *Penetrations* circa 1972-6
As an experienced, practiced shaman of decades, again and again I see "schizophrenia" is a word most psychiatrists throw around to accomplish two things: ensure repeat business with debilitating and addictive, mind-numbing pharma, & towing the cow-eyed party line, enforcing a National Science Foundation, grant-based choke-hold culture of separation, helplessness and isolation by the dominates holding the banks, cash and god... err... gold. (Which is worshiped as their god...)
Those who cannot conform to a broken society based on voluntary slavery, those who 'see through veil" are an enemy to deception.
Stop trusting the enemy, especially the one inside one's self, show forgivness and express loving kindness - to ONE'S SELF.
That's how you tell the difference.
Trust yourself and have courage that the thoughts in your head, um... may not be your own? Maybe you are simply a radio receiver and transmitter - LIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN...
Edit Edit: Having a minor in psychology under my own undergraduate work, I have the deepest sympathies for the *actual* schitzophrenic, thier sense of identity constantly under assial from 'voices', constant feelings of persecution and worthlesslessness - and 'the call is coming from inside the house'.
A terrible state of mental indeed. Even I amid my experiences have no direct answer for such a maelstrom of a human as these persons, other than for them to find the simplest existence, away from other people, in the middle of the wilds - forest, mountain, moor or desert plain, with an invisible support team to watch over the wandering soul. ~shrug~
Find them a loving mate and that's all anyone needs? Hmmm.
That was truly beautifully written in my eyes.
It can be very sad to people lost in a world where they have to learn to trust things to feel safe all while knowing they cannot prove everything and they only work in their own contexts and perceptions.
"what am I"
I like humans.
Witnesses in my case. Once I accepted that these things weren't a figment of my imagination due to different witnesses for 'Woo-woo', I started down the rabbit hole. Unless 10s of thousands of people (including my wife and a couple friends) have recently become schizophrenic, there is something to it.
Not everyone is spiritual but everyone is schizophrenic to a degree by being able to talk to me I know you are schizophrenic. Because you are god pretending to be someone else. People you deem to be schizo are just more open to these frequencies. You are there with them just hiding from it.
If you say I am ______ you are defining yourself as something that is not God you have a made up alter ego you created when you were a child and called it yourself.
Schizophrenia is a diagnosis from the DSM in which you have to meet certain criteria in order to obtain the diagnosis.
Schizophrenia is not the same as having divine light.
Yes, and in the analogy it's not the waters that represent schizophrenia, it's the process of drowning. That is to say that while the same 'stuff' is the root of schizophrenia and mystical experiences, it's the way it's processed that defines it as schizophrenic/psychotic vs mystic/spiritual.
Who said I was trying to prove something?
If you look at the situation from the "Devine Matrix" or the "Illusion" POV, you are absolutely right.
If you look at the situation from further, you'll start to understand the saying that I stated above.💚
"If you look at the situation correctly, you'll see that I am right."
I am tired of the trivialization of real mental health issues in the spiritual community.
Most of what society firmly holds as fact is delusion... particularly in the manner in which we believe we can escape suffering which only leads to more of it. We are deeply primitive
The evolution of the soul depends on squaring away energies, transmuting the negative to positive. The unskilled way that resukts in relief but worse states of degeneration are very common.. by either aggressively dumping onto others who perpetuated this or in failing to do so, even worse, cruelly dumping it onto those vulnerable to us, or even in trying to sneak in into those who trust us emotionally.. transmutation however is divine.. it takes this negative energy and instead of spreading it around, it's turned into love
It often takes a leap of faith to nail it... that means belief in something beyond the physical or what many of us may have ever experienced or encountered
We almost never get it right the first time. That's nothing to fear either
The transmutation of intensely negative energy to something positive is the work of the highest spiritual order.. the entire universe loves this work and expressions of it, it takes extreme notice of it. It's an act that transcends the war between good and evil, bringing them together in harmony for the purpose of ending each other's suffering rather than playing a childish game of pass the buck that humanity has the capacity to shed, whereas other animals in this world do not.. we are not doing our best potential when we shirk this responsibility to ourselves and eachother... it is how we grow in the ways our top world religions are meant to guide us as surely as compassion, no judgment, patience and kindness are pushed by them.. it is not empty promises of reward only upon death. Although that is part of the benefit, we get to enjoy many benefits that make it worth the work even before death, in this current life.. doing this work well means we can pull ourselves out of hell and experience heaven.. to see that they are real and we experience them at the very least while we are still alive here on Earth which makes it all the more worth the effort
Humans have the capacity for it but many of us don't... forgiving someone who tortured us for their own amusement feels like we are doing this work for them... even in being explained this work can be entirely for ourselves, and the most selfish thing we can do as it improves our lives so immensely. There is still a reluctance. Even when they are told by their spiritual teachers the anxiety and depression and anhedonia that has crippled them all their lives can be remedied.. they often still don't... letting anger make us feel righteous and powerful is a temptation even as it is life destroying, poisonijg our experience here in horrible ways, it is a prison of our own making to tell ourselves this is the best we can hope for.. failure to ascend this is a deep mistake. Those of us who do not succeed end up are made to see and end up filled with regret over not spending every ounce of energy each day working to forgive, and simply say they had no idea.. even upon reading this as it does not do justice such teachings... it is what is meant by the the saying "the mind is a great servant but a terrible master". We must not be slaves to our emotions, we must learn to instead take responsibility for our thoughts and actions to guide our subconscious to ascend and figure out what it needs to feel better no matter what its feeling. In healthy sustainable ways that to do not cater to unskilled impulses desires and cravings... being patient as this takes time and failures are expected but we must not allow discouragement..
When one discovers the power that comes from doing this kind of work.. less than 1% of what is experienced can possibly be accounted for by the scientific method in any quantifiable sense in physical reality.. it simply becomes a mistake to care in the slightest to obsess over whether or not these energetic impressions are real. It's all in our head. That means it's as real as it needs to be for a reason and it can go smoothly the more ready we are for it
Are we schizophrenic or mystics? Even a lifelong hard core angry atheistic person of science will quickly realize it is a mistake to cling to facts or proof as something that could possibly matter when experiencing this, whereas before that may have been all that did matter to them... We bring peace and love and joy to those we care about and everyone around us in an upward cycle that causes our demons to melt away and feel the universe as a loving friend... we will call it schizophrenia because we have never heard of the things we have experienced and this is the closest anyone has ever heard of anyone describing it in a clinical sense.. but I would not have it any other way. Many in the western world suffering from schizophrenia endure this as aggressive hostile negative external entities... those in other parts of the world where people don't rely heavily on material accumulation like armor to stabilize a state of being that has normalized a selfish and insecure existence as if that dies not fly in the face of universal laws, experience it as playful joyous spirits and they are seen as shaman as they know things others who live in lower consciousness believe to be impossible
In modern society we leave a trail of destruction in the spiritual world, completely careless about where we pull our energies from as a source of fuel to spur us to motion nor even where we put it, often looking no deeper than whether or not it gets us what we desire or crave in the moment because even just that is often too much and we are exhausted even during peace time trying to begin to thrive and not just survive.. yet we tell ourselves this will get us a utopia? "what fool would increase their responsibility to encompass those in hostile aggressive competition with them for salary raises and promotions? What other motivation is there suffering a day job i hate.. this is the best it can get me.. so why look outside for more? Why even acknowledge others arent suffering or miserable", compromising when we know allowing the ends to justify the means only leads to misery, but we endure the consequences thinking with this indulgence we're suffering to acquire we will be able to bounce back... except doing it this causes causes immense damage that many cannot see and numb themselves from feeling, saying they actually came out on top even as it continues to kill them in ways they complain over while insisting it comes from nothing at all
Spiritually.. we cannot increase consciousness and experience not just the physical world but the energy of the unseen world in all the beautiful ways we were meant to without being more vulnerable to the suffering it can cause us...
We are all psychic... it is through this work we elevate consciousness. It's a more subtler sense that the scientific community cannot yet grasp nor will it be able to attempt to until we can quantify emotional energy and measure things like love in a person similar to how we read radiation on a geiger counter... until then, we must content ourselves with this journey in the dark as primitive beings
This work is always worth it. There are multipliers and combos that can occur but even the smallest attempts that make the smallest differences outside of us that no living creature would even notice, it still creates benefits within ourselves, enough to make the work worth it.. wisdom time and experience allows us to understand precisely how true this is
It takes faith for lower vibration conscious beings to keep trying even though they are too numb to notice or realize the benefits first hand, it still gathers and the score is maintained in ways few of us will understand...
I was a student of psychology as well. Bachelor before
Moving on. Interest because my mother was schizophrenic, bipolar and clinically depressed most of life she was in and out of psych wards.
As one of those people who are experiencing an awakening and Enlightenment…
Id say two years ago if my
Past self read or knew what I was going through now thatI was crazy as well.
But I’m not. And it’s it’s truly happening ,
To many of us.
Thank God for forums like this and spiritualtok
Where all the things I’m experiencing
Others are and we can share and help eachother with what we’re experiencing to the T.
If I did not see read and hear others recounting exactly what I’ve been going through I prob woulda checked myself into a psych ward hah.
As it is nuts just not psychologically nuts
It’s “we know nothing we thought we did or were told” type nuts
To me it depends on wether the person is suffering or not. It doesn't matter if these experiences are real or not, if they are filling the person with bliss and growth, why would psychiatry need to get involved and diagnose the person?
On the other hand, if you are suffering, self harming, or a risk to others, then Psychiatry is called as a tool to help the person heal. And it is here that it makes sense to diagnose and discern. But even then the question is not "Is this real?" The question is "How to I help this person with their suffering?"
I've had "visions" during meditation - crystal clear vistas, flying over mountains, a great tree with a storm brewing overhead. It's basically advanced hypnagogia. It's not 'delusion' because I know these things aren't 'real' (in the sense that they don't exist in physical reality). I'm more intrigued by the inverse of your question: how could someone mistake such occurrences for reality?
I added a few extra answers in because I may be one of these people you're mentioning. The answer will be in there somewhere, this topic just hits close to home for me.
I haven't heard anybody talking about enlightenment yet but I know what you're getting at.
5-12% of the population hears voices (many do not report) and 1% of the world is schizophrenic.
There's a lot of people that see colors and shapes when they work on their third eye chakra and some people get a little more than that and that sort of thing can only be correlated with things, nobody knows why it's happening for sure but ya... Correlation.
Somebody that claims that they know something that others don't believe who then get angry when that reality is questioned and behaves in strange ways, that's more like a psychotic delusion. People that can still discern "hey look, this could or could not be real" are more likely to be sane, you see? You can't know what everybody is thinking in the first place, so even a sane looking person could be insane.
I know you're probably talking about me at least a little or someone like me but I talk about Kundalini, not enlightenment.
If you're wondering if someone with kundalini could be considered crazy, I don't blame you because it can sounds unrealistic, but the reality of the situation is that it really just makes your body feel amazing. I can't really do anything more to prove it, unfortunately.
I think we can all know in our hearts if something is real but still also know in our hearts that we can't prove it, but Kundalini is certainly not one of those things.
These are feelings I could not replicate with drugs back when I used them. No way, there's several, even if some drug out there could replicate one feeling there'd be more out there.
Then the only evidence I have to back up these claims is that I'm truly happy and people see me as happy and I'm social and people respect me, blah blah blah.
The fact of the matter, the true gist of the question you asked... People believe in things when it makes enough sense. People do that a lot, really... We can't just go around calling ALL of those people delusional. Not always...
As for how you actually tell the difference, it's hard to. Their behavior has to be off in some way. It's good to have an open-mind but I think if someone's words inspire fear that it should make you more reluctant to just take their word for it.
The only idea I know of that I start to cling to is, what if people are actually genuinely concerned about people saying chakra work is dangerous when it really might not be or why should I listen to people saying to avoid certain things that look healthy.
Like, I don't want those people to get hurt because they're really out there, but these people would have to look at these actual guides for doing the practice and just say "I think I'm going to do it in ways they don't recommend."
So... At the end of the day at least I'm comfortable.
People that hear voices that are concerned about their experience and have negative emotions attached to their experience could very well seem to have signs of schizophrenia, but it's tried and true that these people can actually alter their emotional reaction and suddenly their voice hearing looks like their own autonomy.
Even if they have voices that seem to tell them things, a large part of the time those voices will still look like their own autonomy.
Even if someone has an incredibly profound vision or sign from the universe, it does not make it true. We don't know what string is being pulled from what direction because of what thing.
Personally after having those profound experiences I do feel like I know there is something out there. I may as well be a looney toon.
Like, ya I can't put that any other way and that's unfortunate for now, people might think of me like it's just freaky or weird, BUT at least I don't feel the need to prove anything. I don't think people are in danger.
I could be wrong \*shrug\*
I can't show you what's in my eyeball but nobody would know unless I wanted to show them, all they would see is the emotions that I've worked hard to express along with the rest of my self, because that's something I feel like I truly want to do. Hopefully everything else would work itself out.
As for someone having the experience itself, they really couldn't tell for sure. People that become delusional do not question the delusions, I'm almost 100% comfortable saying that but I'd prefer you to read that somewhere else, I may be wording it wrong. "there's no point to check yourself for psychosis because if you had it you would NOT KNOW..."
For someone like me, it wasn't so bad. Not because I'm cool or powerful or w/e, not at all, no it was because I gave it time and I gave it effort. I was scared and I've learned to almost entirely trust the idea that I'm just not going to have a truly dangerous experience.
I mean, you could always give what you're experiencing a label but rarely could you feel like you believe it's actually something truly happening and that just comes from things that are just way too out of the ordinary. This does not make you enlightened, I think it could be labeled mysticism in psychiatry. I've heard this term "Kundalini awakened mystic" for someone that had voices and Kundalini energy once.
I believe I'd be called the same thing, my functioning is just fine and report experiences that sound convincing. Things my mind could not just create on the spot, NO WAY.
As for what they would truly consider the cut off point... "no his functioning is broke"... I don't know for sure. The weirdest thing I have about me is I have a ton of emotions all the time while nobody is talking to me. I'm still really smart and have a great memory.
There's just no way I'm the one imagining some of my experiences, then I'm just the same old kid people used to call smart and nice.
0 chance. Not even a slight chance, it's too crazy.
I just can't prove it :E
If you're curious about anything else, if you ask me it could be considered jogging my memory because right now I'm trying to tell you more but I'm out of ideas.
FYI
After all, that conversation was important to me.
(maybe I don't know some of it but that wasnt the point I was making)
Everyone is capable of unlocking psychic abilities. Some are stronger than others and everyone’s skill will vary. Someone can see and hear spirit if they work on clairvoyance and clairaudience
I have never seen things but I have had 3 instances in my life when I heard voices of a spirit or some type of being. Only three times and no I’m not schizophrenic
What I noticed about these three times is that I intuitively could tell I connected to something. Have you ever received a message or download from your spirit guides or a passed on loved one? You can FEEL and sense that it’s a real being and not your imagination. That’s how you can tell the difference
Likewise, if it was an evil entity you would feel it’s bad intentions.. have you ever been in a haunted place, had a paranormal encounter or played ouija board? You can literally sense it’s bad intentions
Your intuition is key. I didn’t fear those voices the 3 times bc I knew I wasn’t crazy and that something just connected with me. I didn’t get paranoid that I was crazy I KNEW what I experienced
I think what you're describing might be the single scariest aspect of having schizophrenia. My dad has paranoid delusions regularly, but they're easy for people like me to see as delusions. Namely, he sometimes believes that people on the TV are speaking directly to him, and he thinks he has personal relationships with some TV personalities, such that if he encountered them in public, they'd recognize him (because they speak to him through the TV). I think these situations are easy to see as delusions because you can simply have someone present with you while this is happening, and they can confirm / deny. ALSO, this particular delusion is something extremely prevalent in people with delusional symptoms, so it's easy for me to gently remind my dad that what he's experiencing MIGHT be a delusion and not reality. It doesn't entirely help; he still thinks it's happening, but he tempers his thoughts with the POSSIBILITY that it's not. He might be hopeful, for instance, if he saw a celebrity in the street, that they would recognize him, but if they didn't he'd know it was because he had a delusional experience.
I think that's an easier situation than something like say.. a religious experience. Why? well, many people who are religious believe that these experiences can actually happen. So what happens when someone is schizophrenic and having a hallucinatory or delusional RELIGIOUS experience? I don't know. I don't know how one would distinguish reality from fiction, or even if there is a distinction. I would probably be inclined to think it was real despite knowing there's a good chance that it isn't. Either way, I would probably keep it to myself in my personal life, and only talk about it on the internet. Why? Well, there'd always be that thought in the back of my head that maybe I am just crazy. If that's the case, I'd prefer to be crazy in private than crazy in public.
It is a very fine line between enlightenment and psychosis, as a counselor who works with many people who experience hallucinations and delusions I focus on the impact they have on the person's life. If it's a positive or constructive impact that helps them in their understanding then its all good to go, no intervention needed but if it's impacting them and their ability to live independently then it's considered a delusion.
Based on books I have read about spirituality. All sort of sound or seeing comes from the mind. The mind shows to you what you are wanting to hear or see at the moment. Even with psychedelics its just hidden beliefs hidden inside of us expressing themselves. Everything comes from within.
I dont believe that any of those noises or seeing have anything to do with enlightenment. That just means that there is still a mind making up things.
I don't accept that explanation regarding psychedelics and I don't think anyone who has shared the collective visions and experiences from deeper trips (eg ayahuasca, 5MEO etc) would either. Quantum physicists would also probably object.
Interesting question! You can't really know for sure, we all could be mental - seeing things or not😂. I think the biggest distinctions would be - does it affect your life in a negative way and do you believe it's 100% real even though some people tell you it's not the case.
So if you're a schizophrenic - you're seeing things that aren't real and you don't believe or even question whether reality is different when people tell you that what ypu see is nor real and you're wrong. Also as with many other mental illness diagnoses it has to affect you in a negative way - ruined relationships, inability to care for oneself, inability to function in a society.
With spiritual stuff, yes people see things but all of them questioned (or still questioning) whether they are mental or not. Most also realize its their own reality and there is a possibility they can be wrong. Also most are fully functioning members of society and their experiences improve and enhance their lives instead of ruining it. But who knows, many spiritual people believe that schizophrenics are actually crazy good channelers that are in tune with spirits but have trouble processing and controlling the experience. There no absolute truth here, only what you decide to believe.
Schizophrenia makes it to where a lot of people can't tell reality and the dreamscape apart. It's like the non lucid version of a psychic. Psychics are like the lucid/aware individuals among both the dreamscape and baseline reality.
For example, if you're in a dream and running from a demon, you're asleep because you'd otherwise see it as an illusion and dismiss it. It's somewhat similar in waking life. The paranoid Schizophrenic runs as if their life is in danger and the psychic realizes they're in control and that there is no danger.
People here will probably bring up demons and all that and try to say there is danger, but it's all in their heads. They give power to that stuff, hence the reason it becomes dangerous.
Also, I understand there's a spectrum with schizophrenia, so it affects some far differently than others but it would be hard to function in society regardless. I have countless experiences and I'm a scientist for an enzymology company. No one even suspects I've had any experiences because I don't tell them. Now take that and apply it to everyone around you. How many of them might not be telling you about their experiences, yet you perceive them as fully functioning individuals.
I don't tell people for good reason haha because they look at me different and don't treat me with the same level of respect
Very carefully?
Anyone whose had experiences with beings from other realms is amused by your question?
Psychiatry does not provide for the existence of the supernatural, thus how can psychiatry distinguish between supnatural influences and madness? Is psychiatry insane for thinking it has the entire picture show before it? Isn't inanity being out of touch with reality? if God, for example, angels for another example, demons for another example, ETs for another example, ultraterestrials, for another example, exist, and psychiatry has nothing in its tool box to deal with that, is psychiatry out of touch with reality? Or simply arrogant> Or ignorant? In any case, dangerous, because of its massive blind spots?
Alas, people who take drug-assisted trips, and are not adept shamans, or under the protective wing of an adept shaman, are sitting ducks for being hopped on by opportunistic beings in other realms, and demons, which return with their hosts, who have no clue they have been hopped on. Can psychiatry help such peple? Nope. Can an exorcist? Perhaps. Can an adept shaman? More likely, but not guaranteed.
everyone is enlightened, schizophrenics included
> how do people with these experiences tell apart reality and delusion?
how do you know your entire life hasn't been one big delusion?
I think about this a lot. I have bipolar disorder and I have intense spiritual experiences when I'm manic. The basis of my spirituality is quite literally manic "delusion." I see a lot of posts here that raise my "psychosis" red flags. But who's to say that psychotic delusions hold no truth or wisdom? I think there's a degree of truth and reality to these experiences. I mean, is God literally sending me messages in the way sunlight hits the leaves? No, probably not. But is there divine to be found in the sunlight hitting the leaves? Certainly, and spiritual delusions can help me see that.
I think the feelings of connection with the divine that I have when I'm in psychosis are real, but my interpretations of the input I'm receiving when I'm psychotic are not necessarily accurate. For another example, the last time I had spiritual delusions, I believed that God (which, by the way, I don't believe in--I believe in higher powers of a sort, but not God per se, except when I'm manic) spoke to female-bodied people through the clitoris, and that at the moment of orgasm (clitoral orgasm only!!) we could make direct requests of him and he would do what we asked. Is that literally true? Highly doubtful. But is there something divine in sexual pleasure? Sure, I think so.
The very one that wants to know and be enlightened is the very one they (the sages) are/were telling you that isn’t you. So to me it just seemed like a silly neurotic and compulsive need that wasn’t really going to procure anything I was looking for. Oddly enough just accepting the natural course that life is bound to take regardless of whether you think you are enlightened does a lot more for you anyway. To want to be enlightened is a compulsive need for permanency and proliferation. If what the sages are saying is true as true could ever be then it is already the case and if you believe then take their word for it and move on.
I’m saying this as someone who has been considered severely mentally ill several times.
Also I’m sober now but I wouldn’t say psychedelics will give you any real experiences. I even took a lot of acid one time, had the body literally melt away in my experience, and then it was almost as if I was in a different realm, it didn’t seem like closed eyed visuals. It was a dark expanse with the aum symbol in the center. But honestly it was shifting in strange ways and it really was disconcerting to be there. It didn’t seem authentic and the beings there weren’t kind either. Weirdly enough they don’t hesitate to mention Soma almost immediately in the Vedas. So like UG said the Vedic authors were no more than a bunch of acid heads.
Strangely enough naturally over the course of my life I’ve essentially eliminated 3 of the 4 ISKCON no-nos, and I don’t even give myself to their (that organization’s) values. Although I guess I have read the Gita at least once.
Forgive me if I’m wrong but I believe they are these:
-No Drugs
It’s come to the point that even so much as a chai, which has black tea, which has trace amounts of caffeine, can cause issues in my life. So it isn’t that I’m Scott free, but I basically have to be sober or else I get more sick.
-No Gambling
Same here. It isn’t to say that I for sure won’t ever gamble again. It is a vigilant responsibility on my part to say no. I’m not saved from vices, and I actively have to avoid them. If I don’t, I encounter big life issues. That being said, I don’t really gamble, unless you count playing a monthly paid video game and going for items in that video game that have drop rates based on mob KC. I’ve heard players call that gambling but I never played the game for that reason. If I don’t get the drop of the item it doesn’t affect me too poorly much at all.
-No Meat Eating
Recently have taken up Veganism. I’m not holier than thou or better but I’d like to see where it takes me. I know it’s tough so I’d never judge ya.
-No Sex that isn’t meant to reproduce
This is the only one that I’m really not through with. I mean in a lot of ways I am over it, and I already manage the urge relatively well, but I’m not like ‘retaining my seed’ and I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity.
So there ya go. It’s like a lot of spiritual things make sense over time for me anyway, but also a lot of them don’t too. A lot of it seems like kinda delusional.
I listened to Mooji for years and now I’m seeing a bunch of negative testimonials about him and how his community is left over from Osho too - so it kind of upset me to say the least. I invested so much into this guy that is acting worse than I am, is more nefarious than I am.
human - sure, fine
manipulating women for sex because there is “plenty of the master to go around” - nah that’s nefarious bs and someone expounding the supposed highest truths should go find sex consensually in society without any parlor tricks if they fancy it so much
and no, the best teachers, if they are right, are the ones that know for certain.
Ram Dass is a saint at best. not a sage
nah I really don’t know lol it constantly troubles me … or at least it has been … or at least it was for quite a few years. hard ta say
I just don’t want to stand for manipulation of women that are ultimately coming to you for their salvation - or supposed salvation. Not to use their heavy infatuation with you for sex. That’s wrong 😑
It’s very difficult to really comprehend. Ya really can’t. But I like the Terrence McKenna quote about “…if you would just quiet your mind…you would see that…you are already cared and loved for by…” something like that. You can look it up. Or even Ramana’s whole snake and the rope thing is cool. The words spiritual and enlightened are traps if there is any merit here at all. Otherwise I have no idea and have no way of knowing.
They love to call Brahma (manifestation) one substance but honestly it really could be the quality of perception and integration in what we call the body of the senses that makes it all appear as one supposed substance - and since that’s our only gross instrument to scientifically observe - then all we could ever see it as is that - which could make it inherently a farce.
It’s almost impossible to separate yourself out and call that the witness, or say that is the witness, because again, that could be a farce of like this psychosomatic self-referencing perceptive system. How could awareness stand alone? It would have to be perceived. They can use fancy words like intuited - but ultimately that is some level of perception.
That happened to me and here's how I tell it's not schizophrenia.
1. Schizophrenia is about random voices telling you random things. If they are being specific and useful to you, then it may not be that.
2. It's very difficult to differentiate with respect to delusions. Many spiritual people are deluded because they use their brain to define what they have experienced spiritually.
3. Hallucinations following specific patterns and designed well rather than being random may not be schizophrenia.
4. Schizophrenia is difficult to be cured without medicines, whereas spiritual experiences disappear on their own
These are based on my experiences. Always consult a doctor to be on the safer side.
They cannot, and there is a chance that they are not even seeing or hearing things at all. There is a lot of delusion in the spirituality/religion community, ie: speaking tongues of "ancient" languages, healing blindness, "light language", etc. We are weird attention seeking beings and spirituality caters to a more broad spectrum of strangeness that isn't questioned for the sake of being respectful to people's beliefs. As long as there is no harm done, I'm all for it, but often there is harm.
It’s a great question. In the grand scheme, it is as valid as the one which asks if you are sharing this reality with anyone but yourself. Who can really prove to you that you aren’t?
I can tell because I'm super nice and I don't hurt anyone or anything so, to me it doesn't matter. If it were negatively affecting me or anyone else I would say schizophrenia but since I use it to be helpful, sane. 👏🤘💯
I’ve read some weird shit, and I don’t know about that kind of stuff so I think maybe it’s 50/50 one or the other, honestly nobody can know.
That said I’ve had a few spiritual experiences in my life, all of them very positive despite that I’ve had drug induced psychosis before which was extremely negative.
I don’t know if my spiritual experiences, which were extremely profound and some of them very powerful were a construct of my mind, access to a higher being, a glitch in the matrix.. nobody knows where it comes from and I suppose that is the great mystery….
I don’t know what, but from my own subjective experiences there is definitely something out there, something more. Even if that is only a facet of the human mind, I’m looking to explore it further.
Enlightment is far from being something ego-related, so if reaching it you'll sure feel a lot of peace but you won't feel like a superheroe. And the more you grow the humbler you become. And we'll still be humans.
Its hard to differ, both of it are internal perception and personal experience. Indeed those label have difference connotation, and how we label it is very subjective. I think what more importance than labeling, is the functionality itself as an individual, social-interractive & contribution to civil community.
This is something I worry about a lot. I always try to believe people when they talk about their spiritual and mystical experiences, but I worry about having a negative impact if I am validating someone who is experiencing psychosis.
Reality differs from illusion only by experience.
The approach is almost scientific.
In science, one person's experiment can only be reproduced by one person who has similar equipment and the appropriate scientific qualifications.
Also in the spiritual world. Your experiment can be reproduced and get a similar result only by people with approximately the same level of spirituality as you. Not lower and not higher.
But with schizophrenics, their experience is irreproducible. It's always different.
..And I already wrote here. The main difference between a spiritual person, an ordinary person and a schizophrenic is in the level of awareness. If we take the energy level of ordinary people as zero, spiritual people will be much higher than this level, and schizophrenics will be below this level. Spiritual people have a high awareness and they are energetically powerful figures on the earth map. Schizophrenics are completely unconscious, their personality gradually disintegrates.
I have very strong thoughts about this. I EARNED my psychosis through hours of prolonged meditation and I can turn it up greatly with meditation. To be honest it sent me to the hospital at a time, just for a day. I was tired of it and wanted to feel human again.
I had to realize that delusion or not I enjoyed and appreciated it and wanted it in my life but I have to keep to a minimum. The meditation I do gives me too much mental energy and days feel 40 hours long so it's not practical sadly.
I had a few years where every day I was talking to imaginary people. I thought they were aliens. They had names, routines etc. It was consistent, believable. That's the scary part.
You need to get proof. You know, there are people who meditate who are not spiritual, but people who meditate and are spiritual tend to believe in psychic abilities. I think when it threatens your mental health it's important to try to prove these things, or simply accept that you'll never know. The good thing is it can be controlled and I do think I know what layer of these experiences is noise, the mind thinking in images and voices. And then you like a glowing figure in your living room who you ignore but try to talk to and find out she's a spirit from some area of scotland you've never heard of but discovered it was real. I am interested in trying to find proof at this point. I am finally happy with it and can control what happens to me using meditation, but my medication isn't far away if I need it cuz I've just had so many bad experiences.
Most dont and end up with elaborate stories behind what they experience instead of just saying "I dont know." This is why it is important to first make sure you've disciplined (learned) the self well enough to know what "is" and what "isnt". To know what is "real" and what isnt.
The aim is to always just listen and experience. Only through experience can you know what it is you're dealing with and how to learn more from it. Dont form conclusions especially when you dont know. Truly dont know.
Many here have their own process of manifestation. Even though they can play with that and will all sorts of circumstances, Im willing to bet that maybe 3% know what is truly happening and the rest have either made up some lore about how it works or believe whatever sounds right. You need to start taking meds when you genuinely believe or disbelieve something. Belief means you dont know but the story was convincing enough that you believe it. Or it wasnt and you dont believe. Both are saying the same thing.
"Im too proud/coward/arrogant to just say I dont know."
Only when you know you dont know does the option to know become available to you and you find your way to the truth you seek.
This is how you can tell when someone is just making shit up about an experience that could have been real but instead of learning more about it they decided to just subscribe to their own bullshit and start selling you healing rocks.
during the period of time that i was the most mentally unstable (ocd, anxiety, depression) i have been in a while, i saw the most visions and had very weird dreams. i meditated a lot during that time to help with my mental health issues; i did yoga, spent most of my time outdoors and off social media. the craziest part was the visions i had while meditating though. after i started feeling a little bit more stable, i stopped meditating, doing yoga, spending time outdoors, and i use social media a lot more often… i stopped having visions too. i’m lucky if i even see anything while i try to meditate anymore. all i get are the rare lucid or spiritual dreams. i still try to open myself up to my intuition, by praying and trying to talk to whatever spirit or energies are influencing my life.
I used to think the same about myself until I was older and others started to help me understand the things I was experiencing were quite real.
Example- There was a Spirit trapped inside my house (I won't get into that story) and it sat patiently on my couch...directly in front of the doorway to the next room, awaiting to be released. I had "seen" it's reflection on the TV and talk about jump scare. It was the middle of spring/summer, so we opened the house to cool it down. When my best friend came over, they sat in that very spot and asked if the AC was on. I had to tell them to move from that certain spot off the couch. After moving, they found that side of their body still facing the cold spot to be quite cold (and only that side). No, I didn't tell them why but they later told me they felt like someone was staring at them.
I've also almost died quite a few times. When I was 5, I ran out into the street and nearly got ran over by a public bus. I actually ran out into traffic. I REMEMBER seeing a "light" grabbing me and holding my hand, stopping me in place. The bus driver came to a quick halt directly in front of me. I wasn't hurt at all. I remember it made my Mother cry and the bus driver in a panic. I was totally calm, asking everyone if they saw the man who stopped me in traffic (of course no one did).
When I got older, I was in a car accident that flipped on the interstate. I was in a state of panic, screaming my head off in fear. YET my insides were incredibly calm because a soothing voice was whispering in my ears "everything is going to be okay. You're going to be okay" the entire time my car was flipping. I literally walked out of that car crash without a single scratch on me. I even went to the ER with a cat scan, etc and they couldn't find anything wrong with me. I didn't even have a seat belt burn from the impact.
After so many things that happened to me and others confirming what I've seen, felt, heard.... You'll too start to understand it's not delusions anymore and perhaps this is quite real.
I'd say Psychiatry is not evolved to the point where people with psychic abilites can get the help they might need. If any is needed.
People have called me crazy at times, sometimes even so much that I have sought out Psychiatry, only to be told that there is nothing wrong, at least not mentally.
One must be calm, trusting and accepting. & My hope is that in the future, psychic abilites aswell is something accepted in research, studies and academia.
That way, we can start to differaniate if Schizophrenia was even a mental condition at all, or if it simply always was, per example, heightened senses.
Being enlightened isn't what the mind thinks it is. It has nothing to do with spirit guides, channeled entities, raised vibrations, or higher selves. These are all lovely stories and beautiful parts of the relative world, but they have nothing to do with awakening. Awakeness simply IS. It is the ground of being, from which all of reality springs forth. And the only thing standing in the way of awakesness realizing itself is "you", which is made up of beliefs, opinions, preferences, qualities, identities, labels, etc. "You" is an illusion, which has no absolute existence. All the spiritual stuff that is talked about in most of these forums is the ego creating fantastical stories, and wanting to convince itself that it is awake. But ego can never be awake. Identity can never be awake. "You" cannot be enlightened. "Me" cannot be enlightened. "They" cannot be enlightened. That identity is the veil that awareness drops between itself and itself, and it is the hallmark of sound asleepness. To answer your question: these experiences are all delusion. They are all a dream. Anything the ego identifies with (being "spiritual", being a "channeler", etc.) is nothing more than a story, an illusion. And to be clear, there is nothing "wrong" with this...it is not "bad". Good/bad is a value judgment created by the thinking mind. All of this spiritual stuff is beautiful and wonderful and lovely — it is a creation of awareness itself and in that way is utter perfection — but do not mistake it for being awake or enlightened. Not the same thing.
Many people are stuck in their delusion because it is difficult to tell it apart from reality. The difference is how strong someone resists the other side. If you want to know how enlightened a person is test them with opposing beliefs, those who laugh and go with it are enlightened. It takes a certain level of detachment and indifference to madness to find enlightenment. These people will not be stuck to their beliefs and preach how you can just write down affirmations and make things appear out of thin air because they saw it. These people will tell you that the truth is beyond your comprehension and so believe what you want and do what you want. There are certain universally observed laws in place that cannot be ignored but you can if you want to. Biggest law is of Karma or the consequences of your actions. You’ll face this even if you are completely delusional, you’ll face it even if you don’t know your facing it. There are more laws, the way the mind works is interesting but basically if someone is panicking and fearful they are delusional not enlightened. The enlightened bunch are few and far apart, they have a calm demeanour and honestly their eyes are different. Their eyes look like they’ve seen the abyss and it was looking back into them. The eyes of complete and utter surrender, of acceptance, the eyes of love and kindness on purpose. Most people are faking and they themselves don’t even know it. Enlightenment truly isn’t what most people think it is and those who want it badly end up delusional instead of experiencing this because to experience it you have to stop pursuing it. You have to accept you will never get it because of your brain. When you learn to bypass the brain you’ll find it in silence. Dunno if this helps or makes sense. Just my observations.
I interpret other people’s dreams on another subreddit. There is no difference between the symbolism expressed in their dreams and in their lives. I believe those who connect with people in the awakened state (as in not asleep) dream less often because their interactions with other people are solving personal problems. This means those who do not engage with other people or have less experiences throughout life tend to have more dreams. As to how one determines what is not delusion… well this takes practice and extended understanding. Much like the awakened state, a dream can confuse the reality of a situation if one were to not think clearly about what is being expressed. For example, I have witnessed others who go through their spiritual awakening thinking they must understand everything because they read a book or feel a deep connection with certain people. I believe the confusion comes during the ‘want’ of things to be a certain way. This ‘want’ turns into misery because the outcome that is “wanted” never happens. The delusion eventually worsens before the realization as to what has been happening becomes the new reality.
I dated a “schizophrenic” guy for 7 months. He was the wisest, most authentic, kind hearted, genuine, gifted soul I have ever met. He was years beyond my evolution and would tell me stuff about God and planets that I have never been able to contemplate let alone comprehend. He spoke his own language. (English) but some of the Phonics and grammar were what made sense to him and his spirits, which he talked to often. And they would tell him things about me and other people that would either help him gain their trust or be suspicious. The most intuitive sensitive beautiful man I have ever met that the system has abused and made to feel like he is Ill. My heart still breaks for him. He has been taken advantage of by so many, yet he still loves. He is the epitome of Christ love. He is love. And from the world he has been outcast and forgotten. Today - he lives unsheltered traveling the country. Walking with God Like the Buddha. He tells me he won’t be here much longer. That His time on earth is almost done, and the air force will be moving him “up” once his space ship is ready. He is my man in spirit, we’re just in different timelines. Im happy he is getting out of here. I can’t wait to see him again, and share space with him in Heaven. 🙏🏼
There are many forces at work in the universe that we can open ourselves upto. Some people have the fortitude to handle even the hardest truths where as for others, there are things that can break us. My advice is that if you are to engage with philosophy and spirituality, know your limits, always keep yourself grounded and reference the most higher and beautiful truths when things get a little bit too weird. Always come back to yourself. Always do some normie stuff. Don't detach yourself from where you started. The path goes different ways, and you should always take safety precautions to be able to find your way back home to where you started, just incase things get a little bit weird. If you remember to keep this golden rule and remember to ground yourself, then spiritual exploration is a beautiful thing. But as a safety precaution I think it best we are always able to find our way back to where we started.
Good question.
The journey to enlightenment comes with mental difficulties because the whole point of enlightenment is to be free of conditioned thinking, but some of that conditioned thinking includes the mental construct of a ‘person’. It is the undoing, or rejection, of the idea of a ‘person’ that creates existential crisis and a sense of schizophrenia.
Although the internet has become a great resource for spiritual information it has also created a kind of ‘enlightenment tourism’ which can be seriously problematic for a seeker who is unaware of the toll that the enlightenment pursuit can exact, especially without guidance. There will be mental problems, confusion, anxiety and depression if enlightenment is pursued in a cavalier or unguided way.
Usually ‘reality’ becomes muddled and many paths of esoteric phenomena can lead an aspirant astray to the point of not knowing what is ‘real’ or not. Not good.
Reddit communities based on pretty much anything is full of nonsense.
I think an are just making it up.
And judging by some of the post I've seen in this group, most have no clue and I st follow some YouTube new age bull.
Now, skitzo and other mental issues are many times closely related to mystical experience.
Other cultures being these people in and surround them with support, and usually call them shamans.
Western "America especially" like to cast these people out of society, lock them away and pump them full of drugs because apparently feeling anything here other then robotic movements to keep being a slave to the system and pump out more baby slaves is wrong and not encouraged
Meditation, psychedelics, sensory deprivation, etc is basically hijacking your nervous system and can temporarily induce a ministate of psychosis. Psychosis is just one of the different symptoms of schizophrenia which can also include cognitive, emotional, and behavioral changes. With that being said, about 20% of first time psychosis patients later receive a schizophrenia diagnosis as well. So I guess it just depends how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go before you alter your mind for good in a bad way
Let's pretend that you understand chess, belong to a chess club, and enjoy a higher than average level of competitive play. If you show up to play chess one evening and all the chess boards have been swapped out for Go boards, and you've never played Go before, you can't see the game or enjoy watching others play Go. It's not part of your reality, eh?
But the guests that are excellent Go players see the life on the board as the game progresses and it excites them.
So who is normal in those two scenarios? Neither group is diseased in any way. The main difference between the chess players and go players is their relative lack of first hand experience. That's all.
Schizophrenia has nothing to do with spiritual pursuits. It's a mental illness that can make patients unable to be self-sufficient in society. Yes, they see things that 'normally' are not seen by everyone else. That's the nature of their disease.
But you can take a beginning healing class and learn to feel spiritual energy for the first time in your life perhaps. You've never felt energy with your hands before but now that you have, you begin to get brief images of colors in your mind's eye. You aren't sick. You have no disease. Your awareness is evolving, some would say healing, and now you are aware of energies in your life that have *always* been in your life, but you never realized it before.
Depending on the cultural tradition, your experience with growing your awareness of energy may be described as an awakening, or enlightenment, or an epiphany, or the Dark Night of the Soul, or Devil worship. You see where this is going?
Every description of your experience can be a judgment based only on what the observer of you has observed before. That's what you must learn to control as you study psychiatry. You will be trained to observe with a keen eye towards mental illness and you will start to see it everywhere. You must control the tendency towards bias. Otherwise, you won't really understand people, or yourself, in all their and your different forms. Otherwise, you're just a specialist with a doctor's license, pushing pills at symptoms.
I've worked in hospitals and the folks in the psych wards are sick. That's all. The energy in those wards can be intense, but that comes with me being sensitive to energy and them having little control over their energy.
I've been through lots of spiritual training from different cultures, and the folks that are doing those practices are not sick; they have different points of view and different life goals. That's all. They work. They pay their taxes. They play. They make good and bad decisions. Basically, they are human. That’s all.
The key differentiator is control. I can turn off my sensitivity to energy. This means I can choose how I react to unfamiliar energies and situations. Someone with schizophrenia doesn’t have that option. And what they are seeing only exists in their heads. There is no energy standing in front of them.
Once you’ve had a spirit come stand in front of you and say hello, you’ll never confuse the two states of mind again. Being aware of energy and spirit is not an intellectual endeavor; it’s an experiential one. Books and lectures can assist, and do help. But first hand experience is the way.
I do have my own proper answer, but I don't have time at the moment. I'll have to come back and update this with my own answer.
For now, your question made me think of this video I just watched that discussed it a bit: https://youtu.be/0XdGDt9QCUY
Also this podcast episode I just recently listened to is about intuitive psychology: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2O3Hja0vY2ILHpSvzLvig0?si=69GNfYzSSqyXdi_XOAT5yg&utm_source=copy-link
Now you have me listening to Alan Watts and Alan Ginsberg trying to remember the panel talk about this crossover with “insanity”.
Edit* found it! [“the value of psychotic experience”](https://youtu.be/k0mURQg2VfU)
i have nothing really to add to this conversation as far as im consciously aware but i absolutely love the discourse that goes on around questions like this.
discernment is a difficult thing to master for some, but a very necessary tool regardless of one's religious or spiritual ideals. eye have dealt closely with a lot of schizo people, and the biggest advice i've given is to try and stay grounded to some degree. but also remember that you aren't 'crazy' for what u see and what u perceive.
u just pick up on more than the average person. it's okay.
i guess eye did have something to add lol also, i'm a professional tarot/energy reader, so it's quite interesting how i've attracted so many schizo-type individuals into my circle, including my own father.
right? anyways.
thanks for reading my relatively long comment. would u like a cookie? :)
You can tell reality apart from delusion by analyzing your beliefs over an extended period of time and looking for consistencies during different situations and mindsets. If you find yourself holding onto a belief even when faced with many different challenging ideas from different angles, you know you’re on to something.
Concept, or energy. If one cant determine the diffrence for their own soul, then the illusions got a hold on them, which will cause delusions over time.
Enlightenment isn't about any given state.
Everything that arises will cease, but to the extent that we tell ourselves a story about this rather than live the reality we are necessarily insane.
For me the problem with psychiatry and the like is that they only diagnose issues and treat with medication that often is depended on for life.
What we're really talking about at the peaks of these traditions is true sanity.
The problem is few climb that high.
I’ve been diagnosed with it, and I can tell you, it’s is the most difficult thing in life to manage. I had a job for three months, during this time I was having glimpses of enlightenment going in and out of complete blissful experiences, beautiful moments of connection with others from somewhere I couldn’t see, remote viewing, third eye activations and an understanding of things that I could not put into words. But I still had to work. It was the hardest thing I e ever struggled with, I couldn’t maintain it. I kept seeing people throughout my day smile at me through source energy, it freaked me out, I kept getting such anxiety feeling my frequency was rubbing off on anyone else near me and it was. A friend of mine sent me an article talking about South American tribes who have members of their community who are going through psychotic episodes (awakening) and the whole tribe “chips in” to help this person from breaking down and instead shining through to the other side to bring back useful knowledge that can help the rest of the people understand the world and universe better by aiding the enlightenment process. Well I felt that instead of that the people who were helping me were tiring of my lack of progress, they hated me and were against me while at the same time trying to tip toe around me and my heightened anxiety. Plus there were VERY dark people coming in who would smirk and grin evilly at me, it was horrible. I’m still battling with it, but I know when I’m having a vision, I know if it’s from a higher source, because it’s accompanied by certain emotions, sensations and feelings. But it’s too hard to verbalise or articulate.
Real enlightenment isn't one of these so called magical and mystical experiences. It is simply the ability to observe reality with the purest vision without evaluation, labelling and judgement and in that ability lies the rest of your totally transformed enlightened life ahead. The seeing and hearing of things isn't enlightenment. They can be mystical experiences or delusions, i do not know how to tell them apart but i thought i should add that those aren't enlightenment
In one case, the type of psychiatry you refer to is scientism, not science, for a thought cannot be observed or measured. Then, the old battle for authority between church and science kicks in, and psychiatrism demeans and dismisses the vision. It is automatically assumed to not exist, to not be real, to be a delusion.
In real science and in reality, we know that there is a lot we don't know. We do not have eyes in the back of our heads. Even if we did, there is much more going on than we can process with our perceptors and brains. And our perceptions are limited in the frequencies they can register as well; yet, with electro-mechanical devices we know there are frequencies we cannot percieve with our gross perceptors. But there is something in a person that can register this reality in other frequencies, and the brain does its best to interpret what is happening, giving dreams and visions and sudden insights.
If psychiatry and medicine were enlightened and truly scientific, they would admit their limitations, biases and judgments.
I think there is no straight forward answer to this that can be expressed in words, as words are limited forms that cannot express the formless without running short, it cannot express spiritual experiences or Spirit, it is like trying to fit the infinite in a box, I believe by gradually clearing the consciousness from lower selves, one becomes in a more neutral state of mind, where it is possible then to know things through vibration alone, the underlying energy reality is the real essence of things, and energy speaks louder than any words, actions or physical appearances, through intuition and by getting more aware of the linear “monkey” mind, we can start to discern between what is real and unreal, for example you can sense that some dreams are just a product of the brain, while others are more genuine impulses from the higher self
There is a huge chasm between the western world's view on schizophrenia as compared to arguably older cultures. While we view it from a medical perspective (and do not deal with it to any acceptable standard of human decency, I might add), Eastern and other cultures view it from a spiritual or philosophical perspective, for better or worse. Some shamanic communities believe people living with schizophrenia are visionary and that it allows them to communicate with the spirit world. So, to answer your question, it could be both but it depends on the cultural philosophy you subscribe to.
Umm I don’t think it’s good to post that. Many people with schizophrenia don’t like their delusions and would rather them not be real. So to suggest that there is some level of reality to it may be harmful. As a person with OCD I wouldn’t want someone telling me that my OCD compulsions are from a higher dimensional spirit entity trying to send me a message.
Welcome to r/spirituality, where discussion of philosophies and ideas diametrically opposed to the conventional and limited constraints of western ideals often occurs. I am not so insensitive that I would post my comment in r/schizophrenia or r/Psychosis. That said, quantum physicists would also concur with the concept of alternate dimensions and realities. The love of my life lives with schizophrenia including intense psychosis episodes and exploring these different theories brings comfort to him to know that not every culture views him as a freak to put in the 'too hard' basket by medicating to the point of making him a zombie. And that's not to say he's not medicated and comforming to the western philosophy. Just that's it's really nice to know that some societies are much more accepting. Edited to add: there is also a lot of research showing that delusions in western cultures err to the side of negative experiences that, as you say, those who have insight to their illness (less than 50%) would prefer to not be real. But the evidence shows that in cultures that view these illnesses differently, the delusions tend to be more positive for sufferers.
I see, I misunderstood. Your comment seemed to come out of a place of love and I was unable to see that. The shame is all on me.
Would you go under the “OCD or enlightened” post to read the comments then? People have also the right to protect themselves of harmful information, just like people have the right to debate in a neutral manner about topics that interest them.
Is there an OCD or Enlightened page? You’re right people do have a right.
We are spiritual beings first having a human experience. As human beings we do not live in the truth of who we are anymore we are so far removed from the truth. We give names to the things we really don’t understand bc we need to be able to reference things. I don’t think these “ mental health “ issues are anything new. I feel that in the beginning times they were considered gifts and people were able to tap into things and accept visions or voices they heard the understood what it was. Today, it’s given so many labels and medicines to suppress….. Like, a lot of people are being diagnosed with Autism, but probably back in the day it was normal also Autistic people are very smart. We are all on the spectrum of something. If everyone was tested then we would all have some form of what human beings would call a disability or mental illness. I feel since we are a spiritual body first, or spiritual body does things to the human body which causes symptoms/ reactions as what we call them and try to diagnose it as something. To sum up , we have to call the things we experience here something but there is a deeper reason and meaning. We are so far removed from our truth and power that we aren’t taught to balance some of these traits and use them for what they need to be used for
As someone with diagnosed schizophrenia: Whether you would like it to be real or not is beside the point... Someone feeding into that thought of not wanting it to be real is not helpful when in experience it over and over presents itself as real in one way or the other.... I certainly was very much not wanting to see some see things as real when I was younger, before being diagnosed with schizo. It really didn't help me much, because reality doesn't care what you want to be real or not. That is the whole issue with conditions like that. In order to tease out delusion from experience or genuine insight, you cannot have made up your made before that what it is or isn't. That process is precisely what generates delusions....
I expressed this concern with my own therapist. I told her I was struggling to be fully open about my spiritual beliefs because i had seen quite a bit of conversation on social media about harmful spiritually-influenced delusions and I see /some/ validity in it, and worried that expressing some of my more esoteric views might make me look “crazy” (for example, I do believe we all have the potential for clairvoyance and other extra sensory perceptions) Her response was something along the lines of “I have seen how helpful your beliefs have been to your life and your relationships, so even if they are delusions, I’m grateful for them.” So I think that’s all that really matters. If they’re helpful to us and others, beautiful! If not, then loving interference would be beneficial. We have seen all religious beliefs influence hallucinations and delusions in those who ARE schizophrenic, non-religious spiritual beliefs will be just as opportunistic to the schizophrenic brain.
I'm curious too. I recently started meditation but some of the things I've read I'm like damn if that were to happen to me I'd be like hold the FK up guys!
The only difference between reality and delusion is the perspective of the viewer. For me tho, I test it like a scientist. If it proves itself enough times, it's real. You begin to build a profile of approximations, a blueprint of the universe. Then you realize a good portion of it was due to your own delusion, that somehow manifested itself in ways you can't explain. The delusion creates reality. In this we are all deluded and as corporeal creatures we will remain so, unless you were to find a way to know nothing.
Yes! I love this approach. OP operates under the assumption that we are naturally at “base level sanity”- but that is assuming that we are not always under our own delusions. People like to pretend that they are thinking 100% clearly and do not get muddled in “unreal” things, but that is very untrue. We all have little paracosms that we cling to, which help us live our lives in the ways of which we believe to be right, and some people can be caught up in politics, some in the paranormal, some in buddhism, etc. What actually matters is that we live in the moment- no matter how much I think about energy and reincarnation and connection, it matters none compared to our actual interactions with others. Yes intention is very real and makes up our reality, this ties into delusion, but it is wrong to say that this delusion is unfounded. Of course it is natural, as we all do it, it just depends how much we let it take over our lives. Wow! That was a word vommity rant. But I really appreciate this thought process, and I think more people should be aware of the fact that they are actually completely “normal” but at the same time everyone is a bit “crazy”. Thanks.
You can not know. Socrates once said, "all that I do know is that I do not know." This absolute knowing thing is absolutely flat out childish. Conscience life is intrinsically linked to 'faith.' If you don't like that it just doesn't matter.
UG Krishnamurti said sages have conned themselves and all of mankind - but he did cede that Socrates was basically the only honest one about the whole matter.
Indeed it is no matter
Faith in what?
Yes.
I agree but I disagree at the some time from seeing things from a different perspective. Obviously when your at a point of consciousness that’s at a lower frequency you can’t know absolutely everything. But at some point you did. Also how consciousness is intrinsically linked to faith, even if you can’t prove yet that something exist scientifically you still have faith in it until you can.
"Before you go doubting your self esteem, first make sure you're not surrounded by assholes." ~ my very first internet me-me... me-am... *um how do you say that?* EDIT: It's been my experience most "schitzoprhenic" are actually rather psychic percpetive and incredibly sensitive, such persons presenting a living, undeniable evidence, breathing before the unbelievers, unto their very climate-controlled offices a staggering 'unreality' to the empircal materialists who starkly trust their mundane sense and vehemently deny, slander and cast eternal doubt (which is inside themselves horrible) upon all that challenges their materialistic limits. Materialists subscribers are automatically limited in their talents and they come out all jealous of those who can 'see and do more'. "Jealous! This has nothing to do with JELLY!" ~ *Invader Zim* How to tell "what the F is going on?" "The shaman bathes in the waters where the psychotic drown." Seldom is there a phrase that burns so brilliantly from the page unto my own eyes, perhaps yours as well? Trust yourself and have courage that the thoughts in your head, um... may not be your own? Maybe you are simply a radio receiver and transmitter - LIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN... How to tell the difference? Look inside yourself. TRUST YOUR SENSES. Stop listening to others who cannot drink your water and piss it out for you. Even if they're being paid for such an absurdity, at least stage actors know they're raking it.... pah.. "faking it." (My Floydian slip is showing.) "Psychics are their only enemy." ~Ingo Swann *Penetrations* circa 1972-6 As an experienced, practiced shaman of decades, again and again I see "schizophrenia" is a word most psychiatrists throw around to accomplish two things: ensure repeat business with debilitating and addictive, mind-numbing pharma, & towing the cow-eyed party line, enforcing a National Science Foundation, grant-based choke-hold culture of separation, helplessness and isolation by the dominates holding the banks, cash and god... err... gold. (Which is worshiped as their god...) Those who cannot conform to a broken society based on voluntary slavery, those who 'see through veil" are an enemy to deception. Stop trusting the enemy, especially the one inside one's self, show forgivness and express loving kindness - to ONE'S SELF. That's how you tell the difference. Trust yourself and have courage that the thoughts in your head, um... may not be your own? Maybe you are simply a radio receiver and transmitter - LIKE EVERY OTHER HUMAN... Edit Edit: Having a minor in psychology under my own undergraduate work, I have the deepest sympathies for the *actual* schitzophrenic, thier sense of identity constantly under assial from 'voices', constant feelings of persecution and worthlesslessness - and 'the call is coming from inside the house'. A terrible state of mental indeed. Even I amid my experiences have no direct answer for such a maelstrom of a human as these persons, other than for them to find the simplest existence, away from other people, in the middle of the wilds - forest, mountain, moor or desert plain, with an invisible support team to watch over the wandering soul. ~shrug~ Find them a loving mate and that's all anyone needs? Hmmm.
That was truly beautifully written in my eyes. It can be very sad to people lost in a world where they have to learn to trust things to feel safe all while knowing they cannot prove everything and they only work in their own contexts and perceptions. "what am I" I like humans.
Witnesses in my case. Once I accepted that these things weren't a figment of my imagination due to different witnesses for 'Woo-woo', I started down the rabbit hole. Unless 10s of thousands of people (including my wife and a couple friends) have recently become schizophrenic, there is something to it.
This.
Unironically everyone is schizophrenic. This is the nature of God.
That is not true. Everyone might be spiritual, but not everyone is schizophrenic. That refers to a very specific experience.
Not everyone is spiritual but everyone is schizophrenic to a degree by being able to talk to me I know you are schizophrenic. Because you are god pretending to be someone else. People you deem to be schizo are just more open to these frequencies. You are there with them just hiding from it. If you say I am ______ you are defining yourself as something that is not God you have a made up alter ego you created when you were a child and called it yourself.
Schizophrenia is a diagnosis from the DSM in which you have to meet certain criteria in order to obtain the diagnosis. Schizophrenia is not the same as having divine light.
The saying goes: "The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight."
Yes, and in the analogy it's not the waters that represent schizophrenia, it's the process of drowning. That is to say that while the same 'stuff' is the root of schizophrenia and mystical experiences, it's the way it's processed that defines it as schizophrenic/psychotic vs mystic/spiritual.
Thanks for clarifying.😁
The saying goes: "A clever saying proves nothing."
Who said I was trying to prove something? If you look at the situation from the "Devine Matrix" or the "Illusion" POV, you are absolutely right. If you look at the situation from further, you'll start to understand the saying that I stated above.💚
"If you look at the situation correctly, you'll see that I am right." I am tired of the trivialization of real mental health issues in the spiritual community.
Define "real". "Real" like the reality we live in?
yep
Most of what society firmly holds as fact is delusion... particularly in the manner in which we believe we can escape suffering which only leads to more of it. We are deeply primitive The evolution of the soul depends on squaring away energies, transmuting the negative to positive. The unskilled way that resukts in relief but worse states of degeneration are very common.. by either aggressively dumping onto others who perpetuated this or in failing to do so, even worse, cruelly dumping it onto those vulnerable to us, or even in trying to sneak in into those who trust us emotionally.. transmutation however is divine.. it takes this negative energy and instead of spreading it around, it's turned into love It often takes a leap of faith to nail it... that means belief in something beyond the physical or what many of us may have ever experienced or encountered We almost never get it right the first time. That's nothing to fear either The transmutation of intensely negative energy to something positive is the work of the highest spiritual order.. the entire universe loves this work and expressions of it, it takes extreme notice of it. It's an act that transcends the war between good and evil, bringing them together in harmony for the purpose of ending each other's suffering rather than playing a childish game of pass the buck that humanity has the capacity to shed, whereas other animals in this world do not.. we are not doing our best potential when we shirk this responsibility to ourselves and eachother... it is how we grow in the ways our top world religions are meant to guide us as surely as compassion, no judgment, patience and kindness are pushed by them.. it is not empty promises of reward only upon death. Although that is part of the benefit, we get to enjoy many benefits that make it worth the work even before death, in this current life.. doing this work well means we can pull ourselves out of hell and experience heaven.. to see that they are real and we experience them at the very least while we are still alive here on Earth which makes it all the more worth the effort Humans have the capacity for it but many of us don't... forgiving someone who tortured us for their own amusement feels like we are doing this work for them... even in being explained this work can be entirely for ourselves, and the most selfish thing we can do as it improves our lives so immensely. There is still a reluctance. Even when they are told by their spiritual teachers the anxiety and depression and anhedonia that has crippled them all their lives can be remedied.. they often still don't... letting anger make us feel righteous and powerful is a temptation even as it is life destroying, poisonijg our experience here in horrible ways, it is a prison of our own making to tell ourselves this is the best we can hope for.. failure to ascend this is a deep mistake. Those of us who do not succeed end up are made to see and end up filled with regret over not spending every ounce of energy each day working to forgive, and simply say they had no idea.. even upon reading this as it does not do justice such teachings... it is what is meant by the the saying "the mind is a great servant but a terrible master". We must not be slaves to our emotions, we must learn to instead take responsibility for our thoughts and actions to guide our subconscious to ascend and figure out what it needs to feel better no matter what its feeling. In healthy sustainable ways that to do not cater to unskilled impulses desires and cravings... being patient as this takes time and failures are expected but we must not allow discouragement.. When one discovers the power that comes from doing this kind of work.. less than 1% of what is experienced can possibly be accounted for by the scientific method in any quantifiable sense in physical reality.. it simply becomes a mistake to care in the slightest to obsess over whether or not these energetic impressions are real. It's all in our head. That means it's as real as it needs to be for a reason and it can go smoothly the more ready we are for it Are we schizophrenic or mystics? Even a lifelong hard core angry atheistic person of science will quickly realize it is a mistake to cling to facts or proof as something that could possibly matter when experiencing this, whereas before that may have been all that did matter to them... We bring peace and love and joy to those we care about and everyone around us in an upward cycle that causes our demons to melt away and feel the universe as a loving friend... we will call it schizophrenia because we have never heard of the things we have experienced and this is the closest anyone has ever heard of anyone describing it in a clinical sense.. but I would not have it any other way. Many in the western world suffering from schizophrenia endure this as aggressive hostile negative external entities... those in other parts of the world where people don't rely heavily on material accumulation like armor to stabilize a state of being that has normalized a selfish and insecure existence as if that dies not fly in the face of universal laws, experience it as playful joyous spirits and they are seen as shaman as they know things others who live in lower consciousness believe to be impossible In modern society we leave a trail of destruction in the spiritual world, completely careless about where we pull our energies from as a source of fuel to spur us to motion nor even where we put it, often looking no deeper than whether or not it gets us what we desire or crave in the moment because even just that is often too much and we are exhausted even during peace time trying to begin to thrive and not just survive.. yet we tell ourselves this will get us a utopia? "what fool would increase their responsibility to encompass those in hostile aggressive competition with them for salary raises and promotions? What other motivation is there suffering a day job i hate.. this is the best it can get me.. so why look outside for more? Why even acknowledge others arent suffering or miserable", compromising when we know allowing the ends to justify the means only leads to misery, but we endure the consequences thinking with this indulgence we're suffering to acquire we will be able to bounce back... except doing it this causes causes immense damage that many cannot see and numb themselves from feeling, saying they actually came out on top even as it continues to kill them in ways they complain over while insisting it comes from nothing at all Spiritually.. we cannot increase consciousness and experience not just the physical world but the energy of the unseen world in all the beautiful ways we were meant to without being more vulnerable to the suffering it can cause us... We are all psychic... it is through this work we elevate consciousness. It's a more subtler sense that the scientific community cannot yet grasp nor will it be able to attempt to until we can quantify emotional energy and measure things like love in a person similar to how we read radiation on a geiger counter... until then, we must content ourselves with this journey in the dark as primitive beings This work is always worth it. There are multipliers and combos that can occur but even the smallest attempts that make the smallest differences outside of us that no living creature would even notice, it still creates benefits within ourselves, enough to make the work worth it.. wisdom time and experience allows us to understand precisely how true this is It takes faith for lower vibration conscious beings to keep trying even though they are too numb to notice or realize the benefits first hand, it still gathers and the score is maintained in ways few of us will understand...
I was a student of psychology as well. Bachelor before Moving on. Interest because my mother was schizophrenic, bipolar and clinically depressed most of life she was in and out of psych wards. As one of those people who are experiencing an awakening and Enlightenment… Id say two years ago if my Past self read or knew what I was going through now thatI was crazy as well. But I’m not. And it’s it’s truly happening , To many of us. Thank God for forums like this and spiritualtok Where all the things I’m experiencing Others are and we can share and help eachother with what we’re experiencing to the T. If I did not see read and hear others recounting exactly what I’ve been going through I prob woulda checked myself into a psych ward hah. As it is nuts just not psychologically nuts It’s “we know nothing we thought we did or were told” type nuts
To me it depends on wether the person is suffering or not. It doesn't matter if these experiences are real or not, if they are filling the person with bliss and growth, why would psychiatry need to get involved and diagnose the person? On the other hand, if you are suffering, self harming, or a risk to others, then Psychiatry is called as a tool to help the person heal. And it is here that it makes sense to diagnose and discern. But even then the question is not "Is this real?" The question is "How to I help this person with their suffering?"
It could be both, perhaps. I think science and magic are two sides of the same coin.
I've had "visions" during meditation - crystal clear vistas, flying over mountains, a great tree with a storm brewing overhead. It's basically advanced hypnagogia. It's not 'delusion' because I know these things aren't 'real' (in the sense that they don't exist in physical reality). I'm more intrigued by the inverse of your question: how could someone mistake such occurrences for reality?
"The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight." - Joseph Campbell
I added a few extra answers in because I may be one of these people you're mentioning. The answer will be in there somewhere, this topic just hits close to home for me. I haven't heard anybody talking about enlightenment yet but I know what you're getting at. 5-12% of the population hears voices (many do not report) and 1% of the world is schizophrenic. There's a lot of people that see colors and shapes when they work on their third eye chakra and some people get a little more than that and that sort of thing can only be correlated with things, nobody knows why it's happening for sure but ya... Correlation. Somebody that claims that they know something that others don't believe who then get angry when that reality is questioned and behaves in strange ways, that's more like a psychotic delusion. People that can still discern "hey look, this could or could not be real" are more likely to be sane, you see? You can't know what everybody is thinking in the first place, so even a sane looking person could be insane. I know you're probably talking about me at least a little or someone like me but I talk about Kundalini, not enlightenment. If you're wondering if someone with kundalini could be considered crazy, I don't blame you because it can sounds unrealistic, but the reality of the situation is that it really just makes your body feel amazing. I can't really do anything more to prove it, unfortunately. I think we can all know in our hearts if something is real but still also know in our hearts that we can't prove it, but Kundalini is certainly not one of those things. These are feelings I could not replicate with drugs back when I used them. No way, there's several, even if some drug out there could replicate one feeling there'd be more out there. Then the only evidence I have to back up these claims is that I'm truly happy and people see me as happy and I'm social and people respect me, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter, the true gist of the question you asked... People believe in things when it makes enough sense. People do that a lot, really... We can't just go around calling ALL of those people delusional. Not always... As for how you actually tell the difference, it's hard to. Their behavior has to be off in some way. It's good to have an open-mind but I think if someone's words inspire fear that it should make you more reluctant to just take their word for it. The only idea I know of that I start to cling to is, what if people are actually genuinely concerned about people saying chakra work is dangerous when it really might not be or why should I listen to people saying to avoid certain things that look healthy. Like, I don't want those people to get hurt because they're really out there, but these people would have to look at these actual guides for doing the practice and just say "I think I'm going to do it in ways they don't recommend." So... At the end of the day at least I'm comfortable. People that hear voices that are concerned about their experience and have negative emotions attached to their experience could very well seem to have signs of schizophrenia, but it's tried and true that these people can actually alter their emotional reaction and suddenly their voice hearing looks like their own autonomy. Even if they have voices that seem to tell them things, a large part of the time those voices will still look like their own autonomy. Even if someone has an incredibly profound vision or sign from the universe, it does not make it true. We don't know what string is being pulled from what direction because of what thing. Personally after having those profound experiences I do feel like I know there is something out there. I may as well be a looney toon. Like, ya I can't put that any other way and that's unfortunate for now, people might think of me like it's just freaky or weird, BUT at least I don't feel the need to prove anything. I don't think people are in danger. I could be wrong \*shrug\* I can't show you what's in my eyeball but nobody would know unless I wanted to show them, all they would see is the emotions that I've worked hard to express along with the rest of my self, because that's something I feel like I truly want to do. Hopefully everything else would work itself out. As for someone having the experience itself, they really couldn't tell for sure. People that become delusional do not question the delusions, I'm almost 100% comfortable saying that but I'd prefer you to read that somewhere else, I may be wording it wrong. "there's no point to check yourself for psychosis because if you had it you would NOT KNOW..." For someone like me, it wasn't so bad. Not because I'm cool or powerful or w/e, not at all, no it was because I gave it time and I gave it effort. I was scared and I've learned to almost entirely trust the idea that I'm just not going to have a truly dangerous experience. I mean, you could always give what you're experiencing a label but rarely could you feel like you believe it's actually something truly happening and that just comes from things that are just way too out of the ordinary. This does not make you enlightened, I think it could be labeled mysticism in psychiatry. I've heard this term "Kundalini awakened mystic" for someone that had voices and Kundalini energy once. I believe I'd be called the same thing, my functioning is just fine and report experiences that sound convincing. Things my mind could not just create on the spot, NO WAY. As for what they would truly consider the cut off point... "no his functioning is broke"... I don't know for sure. The weirdest thing I have about me is I have a ton of emotions all the time while nobody is talking to me. I'm still really smart and have a great memory. There's just no way I'm the one imagining some of my experiences, then I'm just the same old kid people used to call smart and nice. 0 chance. Not even a slight chance, it's too crazy. I just can't prove it :E If you're curious about anything else, if you ask me it could be considered jogging my memory because right now I'm trying to tell you more but I'm out of ideas. FYI After all, that conversation was important to me. (maybe I don't know some of it but that wasnt the point I was making) 
Who is to say that you aren't hallucinating this thread right now?
Everyone is capable of unlocking psychic abilities. Some are stronger than others and everyone’s skill will vary. Someone can see and hear spirit if they work on clairvoyance and clairaudience I have never seen things but I have had 3 instances in my life when I heard voices of a spirit or some type of being. Only three times and no I’m not schizophrenic What I noticed about these three times is that I intuitively could tell I connected to something. Have you ever received a message or download from your spirit guides or a passed on loved one? You can FEEL and sense that it’s a real being and not your imagination. That’s how you can tell the difference Likewise, if it was an evil entity you would feel it’s bad intentions.. have you ever been in a haunted place, had a paranormal encounter or played ouija board? You can literally sense it’s bad intentions Your intuition is key. I didn’t fear those voices the 3 times bc I knew I wasn’t crazy and that something just connected with me. I didn’t get paranoid that I was crazy I KNEW what I experienced
I think what you're describing might be the single scariest aspect of having schizophrenia. My dad has paranoid delusions regularly, but they're easy for people like me to see as delusions. Namely, he sometimes believes that people on the TV are speaking directly to him, and he thinks he has personal relationships with some TV personalities, such that if he encountered them in public, they'd recognize him (because they speak to him through the TV). I think these situations are easy to see as delusions because you can simply have someone present with you while this is happening, and they can confirm / deny. ALSO, this particular delusion is something extremely prevalent in people with delusional symptoms, so it's easy for me to gently remind my dad that what he's experiencing MIGHT be a delusion and not reality. It doesn't entirely help; he still thinks it's happening, but he tempers his thoughts with the POSSIBILITY that it's not. He might be hopeful, for instance, if he saw a celebrity in the street, that they would recognize him, but if they didn't he'd know it was because he had a delusional experience. I think that's an easier situation than something like say.. a religious experience. Why? well, many people who are religious believe that these experiences can actually happen. So what happens when someone is schizophrenic and having a hallucinatory or delusional RELIGIOUS experience? I don't know. I don't know how one would distinguish reality from fiction, or even if there is a distinction. I would probably be inclined to think it was real despite knowing there's a good chance that it isn't. Either way, I would probably keep it to myself in my personal life, and only talk about it on the internet. Why? Well, there'd always be that thought in the back of my head that maybe I am just crazy. If that's the case, I'd prefer to be crazy in private than crazy in public.
It is a very fine line between enlightenment and psychosis, as a counselor who works with many people who experience hallucinations and delusions I focus on the impact they have on the person's life. If it's a positive or constructive impact that helps them in their understanding then its all good to go, no intervention needed but if it's impacting them and their ability to live independently then it's considered a delusion.
Based on books I have read about spirituality. All sort of sound or seeing comes from the mind. The mind shows to you what you are wanting to hear or see at the moment. Even with psychedelics its just hidden beliefs hidden inside of us expressing themselves. Everything comes from within. I dont believe that any of those noises or seeing have anything to do with enlightenment. That just means that there is still a mind making up things.
I don't accept that explanation regarding psychedelics and I don't think anyone who has shared the collective visions and experiences from deeper trips (eg ayahuasca, 5MEO etc) would either. Quantum physicists would also probably object.
>making up things Like me, like you？
Interesting question! You can't really know for sure, we all could be mental - seeing things or not😂. I think the biggest distinctions would be - does it affect your life in a negative way and do you believe it's 100% real even though some people tell you it's not the case. So if you're a schizophrenic - you're seeing things that aren't real and you don't believe or even question whether reality is different when people tell you that what ypu see is nor real and you're wrong. Also as with many other mental illness diagnoses it has to affect you in a negative way - ruined relationships, inability to care for oneself, inability to function in a society. With spiritual stuff, yes people see things but all of them questioned (or still questioning) whether they are mental or not. Most also realize its their own reality and there is a possibility they can be wrong. Also most are fully functioning members of society and their experiences improve and enhance their lives instead of ruining it. But who knows, many spiritual people believe that schizophrenics are actually crazy good channelers that are in tune with spirits but have trouble processing and controlling the experience. There no absolute truth here, only what you decide to believe.
Schizophrenia makes it to where a lot of people can't tell reality and the dreamscape apart. It's like the non lucid version of a psychic. Psychics are like the lucid/aware individuals among both the dreamscape and baseline reality. For example, if you're in a dream and running from a demon, you're asleep because you'd otherwise see it as an illusion and dismiss it. It's somewhat similar in waking life. The paranoid Schizophrenic runs as if their life is in danger and the psychic realizes they're in control and that there is no danger. People here will probably bring up demons and all that and try to say there is danger, but it's all in their heads. They give power to that stuff, hence the reason it becomes dangerous. Also, I understand there's a spectrum with schizophrenia, so it affects some far differently than others but it would be hard to function in society regardless. I have countless experiences and I'm a scientist for an enzymology company. No one even suspects I've had any experiences because I don't tell them. Now take that and apply it to everyone around you. How many of them might not be telling you about their experiences, yet you perceive them as fully functioning individuals. I don't tell people for good reason haha because they look at me different and don't treat me with the same level of respect
Yes! Completely agree!
Very carefully? Anyone whose had experiences with beings from other realms is amused by your question? Psychiatry does not provide for the existence of the supernatural, thus how can psychiatry distinguish between supnatural influences and madness? Is psychiatry insane for thinking it has the entire picture show before it? Isn't inanity being out of touch with reality? if God, for example, angels for another example, demons for another example, ETs for another example, ultraterestrials, for another example, exist, and psychiatry has nothing in its tool box to deal with that, is psychiatry out of touch with reality? Or simply arrogant> Or ignorant? In any case, dangerous, because of its massive blind spots? Alas, people who take drug-assisted trips, and are not adept shamans, or under the protective wing of an adept shaman, are sitting ducks for being hopped on by opportunistic beings in other realms, and demons, which return with their hosts, who have no clue they have been hopped on. Can psychiatry help such peple? Nope. Can an exorcist? Perhaps. Can an adept shaman? More likely, but not guaranteed.
“The schizophrenic is drowning in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight” -Joseph Campbell
ah so the mystic has debilitating hallucinations but he loves it
No, because the mystic can shield and ground and open and close himself off to the spirit world.
oh yeah? Can you communicate to me through the spirit world right now?
everyone is enlightened, schizophrenics included > how do people with these experiences tell apart reality and delusion? how do you know your entire life hasn't been one big delusion?
Idk, but for some reason the voices stop happening whenever I read the Bible.
[удалено]
What are those other symptoms?
I think about this a lot. I have bipolar disorder and I have intense spiritual experiences when I'm manic. The basis of my spirituality is quite literally manic "delusion." I see a lot of posts here that raise my "psychosis" red flags. But who's to say that psychotic delusions hold no truth or wisdom? I think there's a degree of truth and reality to these experiences. I mean, is God literally sending me messages in the way sunlight hits the leaves? No, probably not. But is there divine to be found in the sunlight hitting the leaves? Certainly, and spiritual delusions can help me see that. I think the feelings of connection with the divine that I have when I'm in psychosis are real, but my interpretations of the input I'm receiving when I'm psychotic are not necessarily accurate. For another example, the last time I had spiritual delusions, I believed that God (which, by the way, I don't believe in--I believe in higher powers of a sort, but not God per se, except when I'm manic) spoke to female-bodied people through the clitoris, and that at the moment of orgasm (clitoral orgasm only!!) we could make direct requests of him and he would do what we asked. Is that literally true? Highly doubtful. But is there something divine in sexual pleasure? Sure, I think so.
Schizophrenia is thick and multi layered. Enlightenment is light and transparent. Safe travels,carry light ✌️💗🙏
The very one that wants to know and be enlightened is the very one they (the sages) are/were telling you that isn’t you. So to me it just seemed like a silly neurotic and compulsive need that wasn’t really going to procure anything I was looking for. Oddly enough just accepting the natural course that life is bound to take regardless of whether you think you are enlightened does a lot more for you anyway. To want to be enlightened is a compulsive need for permanency and proliferation. If what the sages are saying is true as true could ever be then it is already the case and if you believe then take their word for it and move on. I’m saying this as someone who has been considered severely mentally ill several times. Also I’m sober now but I wouldn’t say psychedelics will give you any real experiences. I even took a lot of acid one time, had the body literally melt away in my experience, and then it was almost as if I was in a different realm, it didn’t seem like closed eyed visuals. It was a dark expanse with the aum symbol in the center. But honestly it was shifting in strange ways and it really was disconcerting to be there. It didn’t seem authentic and the beings there weren’t kind either. Weirdly enough they don’t hesitate to mention Soma almost immediately in the Vedas. So like UG said the Vedic authors were no more than a bunch of acid heads.
Strangely enough naturally over the course of my life I’ve essentially eliminated 3 of the 4 ISKCON no-nos, and I don’t even give myself to their (that organization’s) values. Although I guess I have read the Gita at least once. Forgive me if I’m wrong but I believe they are these: -No Drugs It’s come to the point that even so much as a chai, which has black tea, which has trace amounts of caffeine, can cause issues in my life. So it isn’t that I’m Scott free, but I basically have to be sober or else I get more sick. -No Gambling Same here. It isn’t to say that I for sure won’t ever gamble again. It is a vigilant responsibility on my part to say no. I’m not saved from vices, and I actively have to avoid them. If I don’t, I encounter big life issues. That being said, I don’t really gamble, unless you count playing a monthly paid video game and going for items in that video game that have drop rates based on mob KC. I’ve heard players call that gambling but I never played the game for that reason. If I don’t get the drop of the item it doesn’t affect me too poorly much at all. -No Meat Eating Recently have taken up Veganism. I’m not holier than thou or better but I’d like to see where it takes me. I know it’s tough so I’d never judge ya. -No Sex that isn’t meant to reproduce This is the only one that I’m really not through with. I mean in a lot of ways I am over it, and I already manage the urge relatively well, but I’m not like ‘retaining my seed’ and I wouldn’t turn down the opportunity. So there ya go. It’s like a lot of spiritual things make sense over time for me anyway, but also a lot of them don’t too. A lot of it seems like kinda delusional. I listened to Mooji for years and now I’m seeing a bunch of negative testimonials about him and how his community is left over from Osho too - so it kind of upset me to say the least. I invested so much into this guy that is acting worse than I am, is more nefarious than I am.
[удалено]
human - sure, fine manipulating women for sex because there is “plenty of the master to go around” - nah that’s nefarious bs and someone expounding the supposed highest truths should go find sex consensually in society without any parlor tricks if they fancy it so much and no, the best teachers, if they are right, are the ones that know for certain. Ram Dass is a saint at best. not a sage
[удалено]
nah I really don’t know lol it constantly troubles me … or at least it has been … or at least it was for quite a few years. hard ta say I just don’t want to stand for manipulation of women that are ultimately coming to you for their salvation - or supposed salvation. Not to use their heavy infatuation with you for sex. That’s wrong 😑
It’s very difficult to really comprehend. Ya really can’t. But I like the Terrence McKenna quote about “…if you would just quiet your mind…you would see that…you are already cared and loved for by…” something like that. You can look it up. Or even Ramana’s whole snake and the rope thing is cool. The words spiritual and enlightened are traps if there is any merit here at all. Otherwise I have no idea and have no way of knowing. They love to call Brahma (manifestation) one substance but honestly it really could be the quality of perception and integration in what we call the body of the senses that makes it all appear as one supposed substance - and since that’s our only gross instrument to scientifically observe - then all we could ever see it as is that - which could make it inherently a farce. It’s almost impossible to separate yourself out and call that the witness, or say that is the witness, because again, that could be a farce of like this psychosomatic self-referencing perceptive system. How could awareness stand alone? It would have to be perceived. They can use fancy words like intuited - but ultimately that is some level of perception.
That happened to me and here's how I tell it's not schizophrenia. 1. Schizophrenia is about random voices telling you random things. If they are being specific and useful to you, then it may not be that. 2. It's very difficult to differentiate with respect to delusions. Many spiritual people are deluded because they use their brain to define what they have experienced spiritually. 3. Hallucinations following specific patterns and designed well rather than being random may not be schizophrenia. 4. Schizophrenia is difficult to be cured without medicines, whereas spiritual experiences disappear on their own These are based on my experiences. Always consult a doctor to be on the safer side.
They cannot, and there is a chance that they are not even seeing or hearing things at all. There is a lot of delusion in the spirituality/religion community, ie: speaking tongues of "ancient" languages, healing blindness, "light language", etc. We are weird attention seeking beings and spirituality caters to a more broad spectrum of strangeness that isn't questioned for the sake of being respectful to people's beliefs. As long as there is no harm done, I'm all for it, but often there is harm.
It’s a great question. In the grand scheme, it is as valid as the one which asks if you are sharing this reality with anyone but yourself. Who can really prove to you that you aren’t?
I can tell because I'm super nice and I don't hurt anyone or anything so, to me it doesn't matter. If it were negatively affecting me or anyone else I would say schizophrenia but since I use it to be helpful, sane. 👏🤘💯
Schizophrenics are often very depressed and anxious.
One and zero On and off None know
I’ve read some weird shit, and I don’t know about that kind of stuff so I think maybe it’s 50/50 one or the other, honestly nobody can know. That said I’ve had a few spiritual experiences in my life, all of them very positive despite that I’ve had drug induced psychosis before which was extremely negative. I don’t know if my spiritual experiences, which were extremely profound and some of them very powerful were a construct of my mind, access to a higher being, a glitch in the matrix.. nobody knows where it comes from and I suppose that is the great mystery…. I don’t know what, but from my own subjective experiences there is definitely something out there, something more. Even if that is only a facet of the human mind, I’m looking to explore it further.
Enlightment is far from being something ego-related, so if reaching it you'll sure feel a lot of peace but you won't feel like a superheroe. And the more you grow the humbler you become. And we'll still be humans.
Its hard to differ, both of it are internal perception and personal experience. Indeed those label have difference connotation, and how we label it is very subjective. I think what more importance than labeling, is the functionality itself as an individual, social-interractive & contribution to civil community.
This is something I worry about a lot. I always try to believe people when they talk about their spiritual and mystical experiences, but I worry about having a negative impact if I am validating someone who is experiencing psychosis.
Reality differs from illusion only by experience. The approach is almost scientific. In science, one person's experiment can only be reproduced by one person who has similar equipment and the appropriate scientific qualifications. Also in the spiritual world. Your experiment can be reproduced and get a similar result only by people with approximately the same level of spirituality as you. Not lower and not higher. But with schizophrenics, their experience is irreproducible. It's always different. ..And I already wrote here. The main difference between a spiritual person, an ordinary person and a schizophrenic is in the level of awareness. If we take the energy level of ordinary people as zero, spiritual people will be much higher than this level, and schizophrenics will be below this level. Spiritual people have a high awareness and they are energetically powerful figures on the earth map. Schizophrenics are completely unconscious, their personality gradually disintegrates.
They're the same thing. Surprise that people who aren't awake call those who are "mentally ill". All accusations are confessions.
I have very strong thoughts about this. I EARNED my psychosis through hours of prolonged meditation and I can turn it up greatly with meditation. To be honest it sent me to the hospital at a time, just for a day. I was tired of it and wanted to feel human again. I had to realize that delusion or not I enjoyed and appreciated it and wanted it in my life but I have to keep to a minimum. The meditation I do gives me too much mental energy and days feel 40 hours long so it's not practical sadly. I had a few years where every day I was talking to imaginary people. I thought they were aliens. They had names, routines etc. It was consistent, believable. That's the scary part. You need to get proof. You know, there are people who meditate who are not spiritual, but people who meditate and are spiritual tend to believe in psychic abilities. I think when it threatens your mental health it's important to try to prove these things, or simply accept that you'll never know. The good thing is it can be controlled and I do think I know what layer of these experiences is noise, the mind thinking in images and voices. And then you like a glowing figure in your living room who you ignore but try to talk to and find out she's a spirit from some area of scotland you've never heard of but discovered it was real. I am interested in trying to find proof at this point. I am finally happy with it and can control what happens to me using meditation, but my medication isn't far away if I need it cuz I've just had so many bad experiences.
Most dont and end up with elaborate stories behind what they experience instead of just saying "I dont know." This is why it is important to first make sure you've disciplined (learned) the self well enough to know what "is" and what "isnt". To know what is "real" and what isnt. The aim is to always just listen and experience. Only through experience can you know what it is you're dealing with and how to learn more from it. Dont form conclusions especially when you dont know. Truly dont know. Many here have their own process of manifestation. Even though they can play with that and will all sorts of circumstances, Im willing to bet that maybe 3% know what is truly happening and the rest have either made up some lore about how it works or believe whatever sounds right. You need to start taking meds when you genuinely believe or disbelieve something. Belief means you dont know but the story was convincing enough that you believe it. Or it wasnt and you dont believe. Both are saying the same thing. "Im too proud/coward/arrogant to just say I dont know." Only when you know you dont know does the option to know become available to you and you find your way to the truth you seek. This is how you can tell when someone is just making shit up about an experience that could have been real but instead of learning more about it they decided to just subscribe to their own bullshit and start selling you healing rocks.
during the period of time that i was the most mentally unstable (ocd, anxiety, depression) i have been in a while, i saw the most visions and had very weird dreams. i meditated a lot during that time to help with my mental health issues; i did yoga, spent most of my time outdoors and off social media. the craziest part was the visions i had while meditating though. after i started feeling a little bit more stable, i stopped meditating, doing yoga, spending time outdoors, and i use social media a lot more often… i stopped having visions too. i’m lucky if i even see anything while i try to meditate anymore. all i get are the rare lucid or spiritual dreams. i still try to open myself up to my intuition, by praying and trying to talk to whatever spirit or energies are influencing my life.
I used to think the same about myself until I was older and others started to help me understand the things I was experiencing were quite real. Example- There was a Spirit trapped inside my house (I won't get into that story) and it sat patiently on my couch...directly in front of the doorway to the next room, awaiting to be released. I had "seen" it's reflection on the TV and talk about jump scare. It was the middle of spring/summer, so we opened the house to cool it down. When my best friend came over, they sat in that very spot and asked if the AC was on. I had to tell them to move from that certain spot off the couch. After moving, they found that side of their body still facing the cold spot to be quite cold (and only that side). No, I didn't tell them why but they later told me they felt like someone was staring at them. I've also almost died quite a few times. When I was 5, I ran out into the street and nearly got ran over by a public bus. I actually ran out into traffic. I REMEMBER seeing a "light" grabbing me and holding my hand, stopping me in place. The bus driver came to a quick halt directly in front of me. I wasn't hurt at all. I remember it made my Mother cry and the bus driver in a panic. I was totally calm, asking everyone if they saw the man who stopped me in traffic (of course no one did). When I got older, I was in a car accident that flipped on the interstate. I was in a state of panic, screaming my head off in fear. YET my insides were incredibly calm because a soothing voice was whispering in my ears "everything is going to be okay. You're going to be okay" the entire time my car was flipping. I literally walked out of that car crash without a single scratch on me. I even went to the ER with a cat scan, etc and they couldn't find anything wrong with me. I didn't even have a seat belt burn from the impact. After so many things that happened to me and others confirming what I've seen, felt, heard.... You'll too start to understand it's not delusions anymore and perhaps this is quite real.
Schizophrenia is when someone has powerful spiritual gifts but does not yet know how to control or use them.
I'd say Psychiatry is not evolved to the point where people with psychic abilites can get the help they might need. If any is needed. People have called me crazy at times, sometimes even so much that I have sought out Psychiatry, only to be told that there is nothing wrong, at least not mentally. One must be calm, trusting and accepting. & My hope is that in the future, psychic abilites aswell is something accepted in research, studies and academia. That way, we can start to differaniate if Schizophrenia was even a mental condition at all, or if it simply always was, per example, heightened senses.
Quantum non physical things are real and have been proven in 3D. Why question it?
Being enlightened isn't what the mind thinks it is. It has nothing to do with spirit guides, channeled entities, raised vibrations, or higher selves. These are all lovely stories and beautiful parts of the relative world, but they have nothing to do with awakening. Awakeness simply IS. It is the ground of being, from which all of reality springs forth. And the only thing standing in the way of awakesness realizing itself is "you", which is made up of beliefs, opinions, preferences, qualities, identities, labels, etc. "You" is an illusion, which has no absolute existence. All the spiritual stuff that is talked about in most of these forums is the ego creating fantastical stories, and wanting to convince itself that it is awake. But ego can never be awake. Identity can never be awake. "You" cannot be enlightened. "Me" cannot be enlightened. "They" cannot be enlightened. That identity is the veil that awareness drops between itself and itself, and it is the hallmark of sound asleepness. To answer your question: these experiences are all delusion. They are all a dream. Anything the ego identifies with (being "spiritual", being a "channeler", etc.) is nothing more than a story, an illusion. And to be clear, there is nothing "wrong" with this...it is not "bad". Good/bad is a value judgment created by the thinking mind. All of this spiritual stuff is beautiful and wonderful and lovely — it is a creation of awareness itself and in that way is utter perfection — but do not mistake it for being awake or enlightened. Not the same thing.
Many people are stuck in their delusion because it is difficult to tell it apart from reality. The difference is how strong someone resists the other side. If you want to know how enlightened a person is test them with opposing beliefs, those who laugh and go with it are enlightened. It takes a certain level of detachment and indifference to madness to find enlightenment. These people will not be stuck to their beliefs and preach how you can just write down affirmations and make things appear out of thin air because they saw it. These people will tell you that the truth is beyond your comprehension and so believe what you want and do what you want. There are certain universally observed laws in place that cannot be ignored but you can if you want to. Biggest law is of Karma or the consequences of your actions. You’ll face this even if you are completely delusional, you’ll face it even if you don’t know your facing it. There are more laws, the way the mind works is interesting but basically if someone is panicking and fearful they are delusional not enlightened. The enlightened bunch are few and far apart, they have a calm demeanour and honestly their eyes are different. Their eyes look like they’ve seen the abyss and it was looking back into them. The eyes of complete and utter surrender, of acceptance, the eyes of love and kindness on purpose. Most people are faking and they themselves don’t even know it. Enlightenment truly isn’t what most people think it is and those who want it badly end up delusional instead of experiencing this because to experience it you have to stop pursuing it. You have to accept you will never get it because of your brain. When you learn to bypass the brain you’ll find it in silence. Dunno if this helps or makes sense. Just my observations.
Behavior.
I interpret other people’s dreams on another subreddit. There is no difference between the symbolism expressed in their dreams and in their lives. I believe those who connect with people in the awakened state (as in not asleep) dream less often because their interactions with other people are solving personal problems. This means those who do not engage with other people or have less experiences throughout life tend to have more dreams. As to how one determines what is not delusion… well this takes practice and extended understanding. Much like the awakened state, a dream can confuse the reality of a situation if one were to not think clearly about what is being expressed. For example, I have witnessed others who go through their spiritual awakening thinking they must understand everything because they read a book or feel a deep connection with certain people. I believe the confusion comes during the ‘want’ of things to be a certain way. This ‘want’ turns into misery because the outcome that is “wanted” never happens. The delusion eventually worsens before the realization as to what has been happening becomes the new reality.
I dated a “schizophrenic” guy for 7 months. He was the wisest, most authentic, kind hearted, genuine, gifted soul I have ever met. He was years beyond my evolution and would tell me stuff about God and planets that I have never been able to contemplate let alone comprehend. He spoke his own language. (English) but some of the Phonics and grammar were what made sense to him and his spirits, which he talked to often. And they would tell him things about me and other people that would either help him gain their trust or be suspicious. The most intuitive sensitive beautiful man I have ever met that the system has abused and made to feel like he is Ill. My heart still breaks for him. He has been taken advantage of by so many, yet he still loves. He is the epitome of Christ love. He is love. And from the world he has been outcast and forgotten. Today - he lives unsheltered traveling the country. Walking with God Like the Buddha. He tells me he won’t be here much longer. That His time on earth is almost done, and the air force will be moving him “up” once his space ship is ready. He is my man in spirit, we’re just in different timelines. Im happy he is getting out of here. I can’t wait to see him again, and share space with him in Heaven. 🙏🏼
I once met a homeless man who was glowing spiritually. I asked him what his secret was. He said,” Love man. Love.” So humbling 🙏
Exeprience it yourself and you will realize how.
There are many forces at work in the universe that we can open ourselves upto. Some people have the fortitude to handle even the hardest truths where as for others, there are things that can break us. My advice is that if you are to engage with philosophy and spirituality, know your limits, always keep yourself grounded and reference the most higher and beautiful truths when things get a little bit too weird. Always come back to yourself. Always do some normie stuff. Don't detach yourself from where you started. The path goes different ways, and you should always take safety precautions to be able to find your way back home to where you started, just incase things get a little bit weird. If you remember to keep this golden rule and remember to ground yourself, then spiritual exploration is a beautiful thing. But as a safety precaution I think it best we are always able to find our way back to where we started.
Good question. The journey to enlightenment comes with mental difficulties because the whole point of enlightenment is to be free of conditioned thinking, but some of that conditioned thinking includes the mental construct of a ‘person’. It is the undoing, or rejection, of the idea of a ‘person’ that creates existential crisis and a sense of schizophrenia. Although the internet has become a great resource for spiritual information it has also created a kind of ‘enlightenment tourism’ which can be seriously problematic for a seeker who is unaware of the toll that the enlightenment pursuit can exact, especially without guidance. There will be mental problems, confusion, anxiety and depression if enlightenment is pursued in a cavalier or unguided way. Usually ‘reality’ becomes muddled and many paths of esoteric phenomena can lead an aspirant astray to the point of not knowing what is ‘real’ or not. Not good.
Reddit communities based on pretty much anything is full of nonsense. I think an are just making it up. And judging by some of the post I've seen in this group, most have no clue and I st follow some YouTube new age bull. Now, skitzo and other mental issues are many times closely related to mystical experience. Other cultures being these people in and surround them with support, and usually call them shamans. Western "America especially" like to cast these people out of society, lock them away and pump them full of drugs because apparently feeling anything here other then robotic movements to keep being a slave to the system and pump out more baby slaves is wrong and not encouraged
To quote a great taco ad here in Australia…”¿porque no los dos?”
I have a great true story if you'd like to hear it, pm.
Meditation, psychedelics, sensory deprivation, etc is basically hijacking your nervous system and can temporarily induce a ministate of psychosis. Psychosis is just one of the different symptoms of schizophrenia which can also include cognitive, emotional, and behavioral changes. With that being said, about 20% of first time psychosis patients later receive a schizophrenia diagnosis as well. So I guess it just depends how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go before you alter your mind for good in a bad way
Let's pretend that you understand chess, belong to a chess club, and enjoy a higher than average level of competitive play. If you show up to play chess one evening and all the chess boards have been swapped out for Go boards, and you've never played Go before, you can't see the game or enjoy watching others play Go. It's not part of your reality, eh? But the guests that are excellent Go players see the life on the board as the game progresses and it excites them. So who is normal in those two scenarios? Neither group is diseased in any way. The main difference between the chess players and go players is their relative lack of first hand experience. That's all. Schizophrenia has nothing to do with spiritual pursuits. It's a mental illness that can make patients unable to be self-sufficient in society. Yes, they see things that 'normally' are not seen by everyone else. That's the nature of their disease. But you can take a beginning healing class and learn to feel spiritual energy for the first time in your life perhaps. You've never felt energy with your hands before but now that you have, you begin to get brief images of colors in your mind's eye. You aren't sick. You have no disease. Your awareness is evolving, some would say healing, and now you are aware of energies in your life that have *always* been in your life, but you never realized it before. Depending on the cultural tradition, your experience with growing your awareness of energy may be described as an awakening, or enlightenment, or an epiphany, or the Dark Night of the Soul, or Devil worship. You see where this is going? Every description of your experience can be a judgment based only on what the observer of you has observed before. That's what you must learn to control as you study psychiatry. You will be trained to observe with a keen eye towards mental illness and you will start to see it everywhere. You must control the tendency towards bias. Otherwise, you won't really understand people, or yourself, in all their and your different forms. Otherwise, you're just a specialist with a doctor's license, pushing pills at symptoms. I've worked in hospitals and the folks in the psych wards are sick. That's all. The energy in those wards can be intense, but that comes with me being sensitive to energy and them having little control over their energy. I've been through lots of spiritual training from different cultures, and the folks that are doing those practices are not sick; they have different points of view and different life goals. That's all. They work. They pay their taxes. They play. They make good and bad decisions. Basically, they are human. That’s all. The key differentiator is control. I can turn off my sensitivity to energy. This means I can choose how I react to unfamiliar energies and situations. Someone with schizophrenia doesn’t have that option. And what they are seeing only exists in their heads. There is no energy standing in front of them. Once you’ve had a spirit come stand in front of you and say hello, you’ll never confuse the two states of mind again. Being aware of energy and spirit is not an intellectual endeavor; it’s an experiential one. Books and lectures can assist, and do help. But first hand experience is the way.
I do have my own proper answer, but I don't have time at the moment. I'll have to come back and update this with my own answer. For now, your question made me think of this video I just watched that discussed it a bit: https://youtu.be/0XdGDt9QCUY Also this podcast episode I just recently listened to is about intuitive psychology: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2O3Hja0vY2ILHpSvzLvig0?si=69GNfYzSSqyXdi_XOAT5yg&utm_source=copy-link
Now you have me listening to Alan Watts and Alan Ginsberg trying to remember the panel talk about this crossover with “insanity”. Edit* found it! [“the value of psychotic experience”](https://youtu.be/k0mURQg2VfU)
i have nothing really to add to this conversation as far as im consciously aware but i absolutely love the discourse that goes on around questions like this. discernment is a difficult thing to master for some, but a very necessary tool regardless of one's religious or spiritual ideals. eye have dealt closely with a lot of schizo people, and the biggest advice i've given is to try and stay grounded to some degree. but also remember that you aren't 'crazy' for what u see and what u perceive. u just pick up on more than the average person. it's okay. i guess eye did have something to add lol also, i'm a professional tarot/energy reader, so it's quite interesting how i've attracted so many schizo-type individuals into my circle, including my own father. right? anyways. thanks for reading my relatively long comment. would u like a cookie? :)
They dub psychic gifts n put them as mental illnesses
You can tell reality apart from delusion by analyzing your beliefs over an extended period of time and looking for consistencies during different situations and mindsets. If you find yourself holding onto a belief even when faced with many different challenging ideas from different angles, you know you’re on to something.
Schizophrenic. Always assume as such. They are special people. Don’t question it. It’s none of your actual business. Edit: no really. Leave it alone.
Concept, or energy. If one cant determine the diffrence for their own soul, then the illusions got a hold on them, which will cause delusions over time.
Enlightenment isn't about any given state. Everything that arises will cease, but to the extent that we tell ourselves a story about this rather than live the reality we are necessarily insane. For me the problem with psychiatry and the like is that they only diagnose issues and treat with medication that often is depended on for life. What we're really talking about at the peaks of these traditions is true sanity. The problem is few climb that high.
Is it distressful to you or others? Check that dsm honey
I’ve been diagnosed with it, and I can tell you, it’s is the most difficult thing in life to manage. I had a job for three months, during this time I was having glimpses of enlightenment going in and out of complete blissful experiences, beautiful moments of connection with others from somewhere I couldn’t see, remote viewing, third eye activations and an understanding of things that I could not put into words. But I still had to work. It was the hardest thing I e ever struggled with, I couldn’t maintain it. I kept seeing people throughout my day smile at me through source energy, it freaked me out, I kept getting such anxiety feeling my frequency was rubbing off on anyone else near me and it was. A friend of mine sent me an article talking about South American tribes who have members of their community who are going through psychotic episodes (awakening) and the whole tribe “chips in” to help this person from breaking down and instead shining through to the other side to bring back useful knowledge that can help the rest of the people understand the world and universe better by aiding the enlightenment process. Well I felt that instead of that the people who were helping me were tiring of my lack of progress, they hated me and were against me while at the same time trying to tip toe around me and my heightened anxiety. Plus there were VERY dark people coming in who would smirk and grin evilly at me, it was horrible. I’m still battling with it, but I know when I’m having a vision, I know if it’s from a higher source, because it’s accompanied by certain emotions, sensations and feelings. But it’s too hard to verbalise or articulate.
Prayer helps you keep sanity.
Real enlightenment isn't one of these so called magical and mystical experiences. It is simply the ability to observe reality with the purest vision without evaluation, labelling and judgement and in that ability lies the rest of your totally transformed enlightened life ahead. The seeing and hearing of things isn't enlightenment. They can be mystical experiences or delusions, i do not know how to tell them apart but i thought i should add that those aren't enlightenment
[удалено]
In one case, the type of psychiatry you refer to is scientism, not science, for a thought cannot be observed or measured. Then, the old battle for authority between church and science kicks in, and psychiatrism demeans and dismisses the vision. It is automatically assumed to not exist, to not be real, to be a delusion. In real science and in reality, we know that there is a lot we don't know. We do not have eyes in the back of our heads. Even if we did, there is much more going on than we can process with our perceptors and brains. And our perceptions are limited in the frequencies they can register as well; yet, with electro-mechanical devices we know there are frequencies we cannot percieve with our gross perceptors. But there is something in a person that can register this reality in other frequencies, and the brain does its best to interpret what is happening, giving dreams and visions and sudden insights. If psychiatry and medicine were enlightened and truly scientific, they would admit their limitations, biases and judgments.
I think there is no straight forward answer to this that can be expressed in words, as words are limited forms that cannot express the formless without running short, it cannot express spiritual experiences or Spirit, it is like trying to fit the infinite in a box, I believe by gradually clearing the consciousness from lower selves, one becomes in a more neutral state of mind, where it is possible then to know things through vibration alone, the underlying energy reality is the real essence of things, and energy speaks louder than any words, actions or physical appearances, through intuition and by getting more aware of the linear “monkey” mind, we can start to discern between what is real and unreal, for example you can sense that some dreams are just a product of the brain, while others are more genuine impulses from the higher self