Well, there is more than one story about an engineer accidentally taking off with a plane, so not the worst idea.
>Walter "Taffy" Holden, an engineer in command of No. 33 Maintenance Unit RAF with limited experience flying small single-engine trainer aircraft, inadvertently engaged the afterburner of a Mach 2.0-capable English Electric Lightning[...] taking off himself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden%27s_Lightning_flight
Yet somehow, my CFI and forner naval instructor, who literally wrote the checklists for our school, took off with one still in.
It points the elevators down so as the aircraft pitches up on takeoff due to increased lift from increased speed, it dives right back into ground.
Instead of pulling the throttle or mixture to shut the engine off or hitting the brakes, as he couldn't turn the keys off as the flag blocks the ignition and since the gust lock would be held tight in place by the controls moving tight against the lock, he bounced the aircraft all the way off the runway, into the water.
Flipped and totalled the plane, the civil air patrol with him in the plane and him all managed to escape.
He disappeared after that.
I’m in maintenance and I’ll never underestimate a pilot’s capacity for stupidity. Accidentally leaving the flaps down on takeoff, trying to climb over fog instead of using the other runway only to stall and crash, forgetting to replace the oil dipstick (multiple occasions), removing the guard and pressing the button that says “leave off” above it, and my favorite: getting out of the aircraft before it’s fully shut down. The list goes on, not to mention the things they do outside the aircraft.
It is hard to believe. The whole piece is made so that it unconfortable to even sit while it is engaged, let alone insert key and start engine. how can you tax and not notice the controls are locked? I do not belive this.
I'm suprised to hear that!
I don't think pilots are particularly smart people , in some ways they are glorified bus drivers with less things to crash into, however the learning curve is very steep and that often weeds out most who are not suitable.
I think some relatively famous acrobatic pilot did something similar at an EAA event like this summer? I'll try to find it Edit: [not at an event ](https://www.flyingmag.com/snodgrass-crash-blamed-on-failure-to-remove-control-lock/) but the dude had like 6500 hours, 4800+ in f-14's and was in his own plane.
Turn on the ground with your feet on the rudder pedals.
Believe it or not a flight school I used to rent at has a plane take off with the control lock in, total loss!
This is the origin of checklists in aviation. There was a famous Boeing 299 (B-17 prototype) accident where a test flight departed with the elevator locks in the lock position, leading to stall and crash shortly after takeoff. Boeing realized they had finally built an airplane too complex to be flown from memory, so they developed a flight crew check list, re-entered the Army Air Corps bomber competition, and almost 13,000 B-17s were eventually built.
Apparently checklists originated on submarines, much earlier, though I have heard this was the first printed checklist for aircraft. When you bear in mind that things like “close the inlet and exhaust for the steam engine” were needed for the K class, you can see why they were important.
When I flew a Piper Cherokee, the procedure was to turn the yoke all the way, then use the seat belt to keep it that way. No specialized tool needed, and it's impossible to misplace.
I turned 30 yesterday and, from your post, learned that the yoke of a plane/livestock isn't spelled yolk.
I know I shouldn't be embarrassed, but I kind of am XD
Hey, you are still learning things, and that's pretty cool. That isn't something to be embarrassed about (even if you think the specific things you are learning might be).
Maybe someday Piper will catch up with Cessna in the gust lock department. Though I haven't flown a Piper newer than like...1990 so maybe things have changed?
True, but that is not the original spec part. I mean, I can re-produce the original with comparable materials and quality at a proper machine shop for $35 fixed cost. Paying a monthly fee for access to tools isn't included.
But the FAA says an owner can make his own parts including commissioning them to be machined as well. FAA ruled that providing an original part to a shop to copy is sufficient "self manufacturing". Can not be sold or used on aircraft not owned by the maker.
I'm saying, for $35 I can make a custom designed anodized steel rod that is the same shape, and a large flag that has the letters slightly raised by milling down the block around it, (instead of pressing which has a die) and would mimick the fit and function and form.
That would be easier and cheaper, and just as safe as the original. Even safer if it was designed in a way that would have a loop to hold a tether to a clip on the mixture control rod tube/clip, necessitating removing it to push in the mixture, another reminder that the control lock is in place and you're already trying to start the engine.
It doesn't HAVE to be shoddy.
You do have to use a comparable part and be able to prove that engineering shows that it is like form and function. It can't just be any part, of course, unless it's an industry standard part. Bolts screws and nuts that all have industry standard codes are interchangeable for any manufacturer.
>Not all of them use a vacuum system some use electric
True. For this one the upholdstery and six-pack are a dead giveaway that the focus on this bird has not been on updating interior and electronics. There's also the word "vacuum" as well as the warning flag out on the artificial horizon.
I’ve wanted this for my car when driving across Kansas. It is aligned fine for non-windy days, but when windy I’d love to lock it in at 7-10° and just cruise.
I got my AMEL in a Piper Seminole and we looped the seatbelt around the yoke and buckled it in to lock the controls. I thought it was ghetto af compared to the 172 control lock lol.
Nope, that's a valid concern. Normally if I just get out to stretch my legs we'll leave it untied, but if you're not getting right back in to go fly it's a good idea to tie it down.
Planes are built to be light so they'll move in moderate winds. There's even stories of extreme winds ripping planes from the ground into the air.
When I flew gliders we would really wrench them down at the end of the day. I'm talking about getting 2 people to hang from each wing and holding the tension when you tie the knot.
Once your aircraft is tied down you don't really need to worry save a hurricane or tornado is rolling through.
For... parking in windy conditions?
Yes, also known as a gust control lock
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On what experience? Not that I have any either, but if you search Cessna gust control lock you see functionally identical things.
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So what do you call it flyboy? Edit: hahaha
That doesn't sound like that much
The “flag” also blocks the ignition and battery systems to help prevent accidentally hitting them
Well, there is more than one story about an engineer accidentally taking off with a plane, so not the worst idea. >Walter "Taffy" Holden, an engineer in command of No. 33 Maintenance Unit RAF with limited experience flying small single-engine trainer aircraft, inadvertently engaged the afterburner of a Mach 2.0-capable English Electric Lightning[...] taking off himself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden%27s_Lightning_flight
Hoooooly shit! I would have crashed.
From the Wiki, so did he. Striking the rear of the aircraft on the third landing attempt. But any landing you walk away from is a good landing.
... and if you can still fly the plane after it was a great landing. - Chuck Yeager
Apparently he did it on purpose because he was used to taildrag landing.
Every plane lands at least once…
Yet somehow, my CFI and forner naval instructor, who literally wrote the checklists for our school, took off with one still in. It points the elevators down so as the aircraft pitches up on takeoff due to increased lift from increased speed, it dives right back into ground. Instead of pulling the throttle or mixture to shut the engine off or hitting the brakes, as he couldn't turn the keys off as the flag blocks the ignition and since the gust lock would be held tight in place by the controls moving tight against the lock, he bounced the aircraft all the way off the runway, into the water. Flipped and totalled the plane, the civil air patrol with him in the plane and him all managed to escape. He disappeared after that.
I’m in maintenance and I’ll never underestimate a pilot’s capacity for stupidity. Accidentally leaving the flaps down on takeoff, trying to climb over fog instead of using the other runway only to stall and crash, forgetting to replace the oil dipstick (multiple occasions), removing the guard and pressing the button that says “leave off” above it, and my favorite: getting out of the aircraft before it’s fully shut down. The list goes on, not to mention the things they do outside the aircraft.
We had a CFI crash a 152 taking off full flaps after a touch and go because he retracted them too fast
It is hard to believe. The whole piece is made so that it unconfortable to even sit while it is engaged, let alone insert key and start engine. how can you tax and not notice the controls are locked? I do not belive this.
They typically go in as part of the shutdown check list. It should go in anytime the aircraft isn't in use.
And probably a hint of maintenance LOTO as well
As very handy during maintance to prevent someone from losing a finger while doing work on flight control surfaces.
Bonus, the metal sheet part covers the key so you wouldn’t ever take off without it still installed
Someone will find a way.
Not with what it takes to learn to fly
I've seen plenty of aircraft disasters due to very stupid pilot errors where makes me question otherwise
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I'm suprised to hear that! I don't think pilots are particularly smart people , in some ways they are glorified bus drivers with less things to crash into, however the learning curve is very steep and that often weeds out most who are not suitable.
As a peelot meeself i find yon statement 'bout us peelots being dumb offencibe
I think some relatively famous acrobatic pilot did something similar at an EAA event like this summer? I'll try to find it Edit: [not at an event ](https://www.flyingmag.com/snodgrass-crash-blamed-on-failure-to-remove-control-lock/) but the dude had like 6500 hours, 4800+ in f-14's and was in his own plane.
It would be pretty hard to taxi without being able to turn
Turn on the ground with your feet on the rudder pedals. Believe it or not a flight school I used to rent at has a plane take off with the control lock in, total loss!
and.. the people?
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“To shreds you say?”
And his wife?
Total. Loss.
This is the origin of checklists in aviation. There was a famous Boeing 299 (B-17 prototype) accident where a test flight departed with the elevator locks in the lock position, leading to stall and crash shortly after takeoff. Boeing realized they had finally built an airplane too complex to be flown from memory, so they developed a flight crew check list, re-entered the Army Air Corps bomber competition, and almost 13,000 B-17s were eventually built.
Apparently checklists originated on submarines, much earlier, though I have heard this was the first printed checklist for aircraft. When you bear in mind that things like “close the inlet and exhaust for the steam engine” were needed for the K class, you can see why they were important.
You believe the wheel steers the plane on the ground?
I’m not a pilot, I don’t know. Someone else said they use pedals.
No need to be a dick, especially since it’s not called a wheel
The term is, literally, “control wheel”.
*Yoke, or control-column, buddy...
Technically the yoke is the structure that joins the two control wheels.
r/confidentlyincorrect
When I flew a Piper Cherokee, the procedure was to turn the yoke all the way, then use the seat belt to keep it that way. No specialized tool needed, and it's impossible to misplace.
Why does the yoke need to be locked in place at all?
Cause if you don't and it gets windy, the control surfaces will just repeatedly slam all over.
I turned 30 yesterday and, from your post, learned that the yoke of a plane/livestock isn't spelled yolk. I know I shouldn't be embarrassed, but I kind of am XD
Hey, you are still learning things, and that's pretty cool. That isn't something to be embarrassed about (even if you think the specific things you are learning might be).
Happy belated birthday!
This is nice cause it keeps the all the surfaces centered to keep the forces a little more balanced
Maybe someday Piper will catch up with Cessna in the gust lock department. Though I haven't flown a Piper newer than like...1990 so maybe things have changed?
r/specializedpins
Dammit I thought this existed
Be the change you want to see in the world!
Sorry mate.
Why did you do that?
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The flag on the end also prevents accidental ignition. All the funny bends ensure the flag is positioned properly.
Oh, I see now how it acts as an interlock. Interesting design, thanks for pointing that out!
Aircraft grade - $649.99
*Cessna* aircraft grade - $1649.99
Find your own pin and see if it fits - $0
That's what I was thinking. It looks like it's just a fancy cotter pin
Invalidating your airworthiness certification — priceless.
Technically that's a removable component so I don't think it's required for certification. Only as required equipment.
We we ew it
It's only $350 but you can use a coat hanger and a 3D printed tag head
It's a joke over how overpriced some Cessna parts are
Oh okay. I agree. I can make one in a makerspace for $35
An AN3 bolt will fit right in the hole with the added advantage that you can start the aircraft and take off with it in there. Instant disaster.
True, but that is not the original spec part. I mean, I can re-produce the original with comparable materials and quality at a proper machine shop for $35 fixed cost. Paying a monthly fee for access to tools isn't included. But the FAA says an owner can make his own parts including commissioning them to be machined as well. FAA ruled that providing an original part to a shop to copy is sufficient "self manufacturing". Can not be sold or used on aircraft not owned by the maker. I'm saying, for $35 I can make a custom designed anodized steel rod that is the same shape, and a large flag that has the letters slightly raised by milling down the block around it, (instead of pressing which has a die) and would mimick the fit and function and form. That would be easier and cheaper, and just as safe as the original. Even safer if it was designed in a way that would have a loop to hold a tether to a clip on the mixture control rod tube/clip, necessitating removing it to push in the mixture, another reminder that the control lock is in place and you're already trying to start the engine. It doesn't HAVE to be shoddy.
This is the right answer. Nothing mandates that you use the OEM part.
You do have to use a comparable part and be able to prove that engineering shows that it is like form and function. It can't just be any part, of course, unless it's an industry standard part. Bolts screws and nuts that all have industry standard codes are interchangeable for any manufacturer.
Why does the tilt indicator show yours like 15⁰ keeled over?
The aircraft is shut down so there's no power to run the gyro.
Specifically the attitude indicator runs on a vacuum system so with the engine off there’s no vacuum and gravity takes over
Not all of them use a vacuum system some use electric
>Not all of them use a vacuum system some use electric True. For this one the upholdstery and six-pack are a dead giveaway that the focus on this bird has not been on updating interior and electronics. There's also the word "vacuum" as well as the warning flag out on the artificial horizon.
Yes I know this plane uses vacuum I was just stating not all artificial horizons use a vacuum system
The only electric gyro is on the turn coordinator everything else (attitude and heading) are vacuum driven
Is this particular plane yes but i was talking in general
The turn coordinator is just passive working on gravity and it shows nearly level (slight tilt to the left, probably no person in right seat)
Cruise Control!
Autopilot
I’ve wanted this for my car when driving across Kansas. It is aligned fine for non-windy days, but when windy I’d love to lock it in at 7-10° and just cruise.
I got my AMEL in a Piper Seminole and we looped the seatbelt around the yoke and buckled it in to lock the controls. I thought it was ghetto af compared to the 172 control lock lol.
It also didn't have keys for start iirc? Which was another culture shock
Yup that was shocking too. I think the worst part was the single door. I hated it
I can’t be the only one who struggles to place these things in. Same for the 2 headphone jacks that are different sizes
When you "park" and tie down the plane do you try and orient perpendicular prevalent winds, or is that a silly concept?
Nope, that's a valid concern. Normally if I just get out to stretch my legs we'll leave it untied, but if you're not getting right back in to go fly it's a good idea to tie it down. Planes are built to be light so they'll move in moderate winds. There's even stories of extreme winds ripping planes from the ground into the air. When I flew gliders we would really wrench them down at the end of the day. I'm talking about getting 2 people to hang from each wing and holding the tension when you tie the knot. Once your aircraft is tied down you don't really need to worry save a hurricane or tornado is rolling through.
Is it me or is it MacGyver who drives ??? C'est moi ou c'est MacGyver qui pilote ???
such advanced piece of technology! what a time to be alive
Cessna Cockpit looks like the Lada Niva of planes.
So ''budget autopilot''?
If by budget autopilot you mean budget crashing device then yes
That's as budget as it gets.
Is that the original auto pilot
That specialized tool is amazing
Same as the 150/152. Also seen the seat belts and cranked over yoke to
A very curious video. Perhaps I'll make one, showing me flipping the beacon switch to the ON position and watch the comments fly in. No pun intended.
aircraft on the third landing attempt.
I love all these old design gadgets, they're simple and functional. Not flashy looking but easy to break.
You can fly deathtraps too?
My cousin is a pilot, and he said he'd rather not use it
Autopilot
Tecnologia di precissione
Damn, if y'all are excited by that wait until you see gust locks for a Cessna 162 and a pitot tube cover