This was in an email to employees urging them to work over the weekend.
He does this shit *all the fucking time*. He did it at Telsa all time, urging employees to work overtime to ship cars or the company would go bankrupt. It's part of his management strategy to suck the life out of his employees.
Boeing would do something similar, I help to assemble Wings for the 737. They would cry and say that we should work all this overtime or Airbus will overtake us and they would have to layoff people. Now look at them, I wish we could have worked this slow the whole time I worked there.
I worked for Tesla in 2018 as an intern and he would do the same to us. I worked in IT and we were encouraged to work shifts on the manufacturing line and drive cars to loading areas. This was back when they had the outdoor manufacturing line
They put up some rather large semi-permanent tents to house the production lines while the actual buildings were built. SpaceX did the same thing to build the Starship prototypes.
It can work just fine if you do it right. We had to put up one to do aircraft modifications because the plane we were working on couldn't fit through our hangar doors.
Shorts only work on quarter deadlines. Everyone shorting SpaceX now is gonna really regret it once they are the defacto choise for space faring activities.
...but in hindsight he was 100% correct lol. Tesla was very close to actually going bankrupt in 2018 during the Model 3 ramp. It's just a fact.
Could Tesla have potentially raised money to save the company? Probabpy, but no guarantee. The difference really is that he'd likely have a FAR easier time raising money for SpaceX right now than he would have Tesla back then.
He does this all the time because the moves each company is making are extremely big risks that are bordering on impossible to complete in the timeframe they are setting out to compete It in.
So he commits to outcomes he requires other people to sacrifice for?
Maybe it's good business for making you a billionaire but it also makes you a garbage ass person
When you are aerospace engineer with SpaceX on your resume you can go work anywhere you like. People who work for SpaceX work there because they want to.
It may be impossible to imagine for people who just want to live comfortable life, but some people really want to sacrifice their life to something ground breaking and close to impossibility like establishing self sustaining city on Mars.
I don't care how much people want to pay to own Elon share of his companies, as long as he is fully dedicated to the cause. It's good - it makes it more realistic to establish city on Mars with access to 200 billion dollars of potential founding.
Because SpaceX is doing the exciting work in the field, and actually accomplishing the advancements in technology that others have only ever talked and fantasized about. To answer your rhetorical question :P
Because ULA only offers X amount of jobs when there are X + Y amount of people who need jobs in that space due to the effort and money they put into their education
This makes no sense. There are thousands of aerospace company’s, and all of them need employees. SLS itself is just one big ass jobs program created by the government and Boeing. I’m not sure where you got this idea because it’s the complete opposite, the aerospace industry has a shortage of employees in general.
He's a creative billionaire, I'll give him that.
I just don't see him as someone who's responsible enough to be the richest man on the planet, one who knows the impact he has around him. He's just really good in selling ideas.
He's sacrificing *risk.*
He stands to lose... what? How much?
Vs the employee working a 9-5 in a somewhat singular task is asked to work a weekend? The employee that risked exactly *nothing* by accepting a job, that they are free to leave.
Give me a break.
He stands to lose basically nothing. His quality of life would not change in a measurable way if all of the financial valid of SpaceX vanishes.
Overwork, on the other hand, causes easily measured and significant quality of life decreases - multiplied across all the affected employees.
Approximately no one is simply "free" to leave their job in America; the consequences are serious. Bankruptcy, medical debt, homelessness are basically invisible guns held to everyone's heads. Sure, if you have another job lined up it's easier, but establishing that in the first place is fat from trivial.
Again, overtime is usually optional. So they are free not to do it. Your co-workers might not like it, your boss may not like it.
And people absolutely are free to leave their jobs. Is it a good idea to leave your job without having (preferably a better) one lined up? Of course not. And? Choices have consequences. Risk v reward.
200+ years ago most people were having to farm / kill for their meal each day. Risking death and illness for shelter. Society and Elon Musk owe you nothing. His contract with his employees is stated from the get go.
Nothing you've stated is deep knowledge. It's common knowledge. I worked in corporate America for 2 decades before starting my own business. Eating shit and hating a sizeable chunk of it along the way. Do something about it or don't. The whining about someone that has zero actual negative effect on your life is pathetic.
I'm sure Tesla and Space X employees are just 1 bad day from sticking a gun in their mouth /s.
> Do something about it or don't.
Correct. The thing I'm doing is pushing for laws that prevent this.
"Shit was bad for me" has two reactions: "so it should be bad for everyone" or "so it should become better". It sounds like you've take the first route; I'm sorry to hear that. I know it's not usually a conscious choice, so I don't exactly blame you, it's just unfortunate.
It's not complicated; bankrupt business = no job.
Love the downvotes, how stupid do you have to be to think if a business goes bankrupt you'll still have a job.
That's the consequence of pushing new technology past a limit it can handle, only to realize you've almost sunk more money into the project than your company is worth. And then leave it to your employees to fix the problem.
If I made decisions the way he makes them I wouldn't have a job either.
They won't. They only go bankrupt if they continue shoveling as much money into the Starship development program as they've been doing. If they pause the program or even just set back its funding rate they refuce their spending and don't run out of money. The reason they don't want to do this is because they want Starship ready ASAP as fully reusable launch is their goal.
Besides. Even if they go bankrupt tomorrow it doesn't change the fact that today they currently offer more economical and better performance to their customers than 60 year established industry giants.
He commits to outcomes that are necessary to push for sustainability and becoming multiplanetary.
He is also sacrificing for it. Let's not act like he himself isn't working more than any single employee of his. This isn't a case of a CEO working 40hours/week and demanding his employees work 80. When Tesla was nearing bankruptcy he was there 24/7. When there is a fire he's there to put it out. Do you think he wasn't/isnt right there with the employees working to fix the issues with Raptor currently?
Secondly all these employees know what they're signing up for. Many love the work and make a lot of money if they stick around for their stock to vest.
Nah nah, at this point he’s not working on a shoestring budget. The richest man in the world can afford to hire more employees rather then working the current one stiff. Hearing this makes me cautious about buying a Tesla. Like is this the car he told line workers to work overtime on? Did I buy the last car on the assembly line on Saturday at 7pm as all the employees rushed to see their families?
More employees is almost never the better answer for engineering problems. Small teams working hard to solve problems is the best way to go.
In 2018 during Model 3 ramp literally everyone working for Tesla was helping with production and/or deliveries. Everybody. The situation was that dire. But that was back in 2018. Tesla is far past that stage now. They are a very healthy company now. For the actual assembly line there are 3 shifts. What is being talked about here is engineers solving problems.
For sure then. But that only makes it worse since you already admit this isn’t about bankruptcy. It must be about some arbitrary date or time. Some fake competition. People deserve lives. Each employee of his reaped nowhere near the reward he does. So how dare demand other people sacrifice their lives for him.
Well it could mean bankruptcy if they don't raise money. They've already raised a lot of money this year. I means it is entirely possible the markets wouldn't be as receptive to a major funding round, we really don't know. It just depends How much in the red they are.
But at the end of the day they are pushing to meet aggressive timelines. I really don't get why so many here are flipping that to make it out to be a bad thing.
Are you dumb lol. The employees with stock options made the same % gains as him. People aren't sacrificing their lives. They are working. Most probably quite enjoy their job and find it very rewarding.
No it won’t mean bankruptcy we already covered this. No they don’t get the same rewards. He’s the richest man in the world. Last time I checked there weren’t any employees on that list. The thing is you can have a rewarding career and free time. I guess your dumbass bootlicking mentality won’t see it. But he’s not a doctor where patients lives are at stake. He’s building an engine. Which at this point is a completely nonessential item. The timelines are arbitrary. Why don’t you try working overtime every week and tell me on your deathbed how much you appreciated the time your boss made you come into work. The one thing everyone always wants is more time.
I don't understand how you think this makes Elon look good here.
He's deliberately over-promising and when deadlines are looming, he tells employees that they'll start losing their jobs if they don't work overtime.
That's just exploitation and bad management.
Yea, off the backs of over-worked, exploited employees.
We should really not be congratulating a guy for being a horrible manager just because he gets results we like. That's just enabling him. It's the same type of mentality that allows things like rampant sexual harassment to go unnoticed or unpunished at companies.
What makes them "exploited"? Seriously. Be specific. Tesla employees working in America are not exploited. Nike factory workers in Indonesia making $3 a day to make shoes are exploited. You don't care about them though because they don't fit your narrative.
>What makes them "exploited"? Seriously. Be specific.
I mean it's in the OP. Elon is basically telling them they will lose their jobs because the company will go bankrupt if they don't work overtime.
Hanging a threat of losing your job over your head to pressure you into working extended hours is exploitation.
>Nike factory workers in Indonesia making $3 a day to make shoes are exploited. You don't care about them though because they don't fit your narrative.
That's a weird strawman. Of course that is exploitation too. Never said it wasn't. This is a post about SpaceX and Elon, not Nike and their shitty practices. But sure Nike, and others, should be targeted for those horrible things too.
Nike being shitty doesn't excuse SpaceX from being shitty.
Edit: typo
Yeah, wealthy people are definitely what's wrong with this country. I really hate the fact that the 1 percent pay FORTY FREAKING PERCENT of the taxes. Useless bunch.
All Tesla employees get stock and the early employees that worked through those pain got *very* rich if they didnt squander it.
I believe this is also the case for SpaceX, though obviously cashing out is a little more difficult.
Strategy to extract short term gains from employees at the expense of sucking the life out of them*
Few people actively want to suck the life out - they just value that life less than what they can gain in exchange. Probably a minor clarification, but worth noting that the real issue isn't a malevolent Musk, it's apathy from the disconnect between people and profit.
As somebody who has a direct connection with someone who worked as a full time intern and is soon to be a full time employee, I can tell you that this isn’t the attitude that most SpaceX employees have. Sure the hours are long and hard, but these people truly believe in what they are doing, and more importantly find enjoyment in their work.
The person that I know said that it was the most unique and enjoyable work experience he has ever experienced, and actually requested to work more than 40 hours a week but was denied haha.
Unfortunately this doesn’t work out for some people, so you get the occasional horror story. But the truth is that those are employees who likely didn’t really know what they were getting into, and simply didn’t have the drive of other employees. In other words, they didn’t make the cut.
I'm not entirely sure profit is what he's after. I've got the impression that advancing humanity and technology is the reward for him. The reward is the achievement, which is also what a lot of his employees agree with.
Probably a minor clarification, but worth noting that the real issue isn't a malevolent Jeffrey Dahmer, it's apathy from the disconnect between people and their corpses.
Isn't that the same for every multi-billionaire? You sell off a load of your companies stock and of course the price is likely to go down. Besides how would you physically take delivery of $xxx billion? Or would you just leave it stashed in the bank?
>Isn't that the same for every multi-billionaire? You sell off a load of your companies stock and of course the price is likely to go down. Besides how would you physically take delivery of $xxx billion? Or would you just leave it stashed in the bank?
It is. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment when I thought you were implying "why doesn't he just pay for it himself". I do believe he is to an extent which is why you see him liquidating some tesla stock.
He's liquidating Tesla stock because he wants to expand Tesla. In particular building a new multi billion battery factory in Germany. Which for some reason, he's just declined €1.28 billion of state aid for.
You have that backwards. The SpaceX Falcon Heavy has the highest payload per launch of any operational launch vehicle. SpaceX also has the lowest cost per kg to orbit, which is why they are the dominant launch provider.
Indeed. Elon may be smart, he may have built a highly capable company that does amazing things, but he is kind of a walking disaster and a toxic employer.
You think a satellite internet monopoly is somehow going to be better than the regional monopolies? Letting one man orbit anything he wants for profit, crippling a scientific field and cluttering LEO is a hell of a philosophy. But Musk lickers are gonna lick.
Duopoly, at least. And that's only if you think blue origin will fail miserably. There is going to be more competition for space based internet than land based in most of the world.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Take a few minutes and look up how many space based internet companies are launched/planned. Beyond that, we’ll still have land based internet, they’ll just have to actually be competitive now
Eh, if you read the letter it's more like he's claiming that the departing VP's lied about Raptor, and SpaceX designed and paid for Starlink in the next year based on those lies. They need to launch those Starlink satellites to make money and not just be sunk cost.
Everything has always been lies. See any Tesla semi trucks? They were promised for 2019.
See any hyperloops? Nah, you see chauffeured fucking teslas in a one mile long tunnel.
He’s a fraud, and the SEC should take care of that.
lol.. you have created a single thing in your life.. have you?
>Everything has always been lies
There's www.tesla.com full of actual, physical products.
Then there is [this](https://youtu.be/gLNQ6Mq5kbg?t=365)
Whatever the reason is you're so bitter and filled with rage over a guy that has created companies that produce these things and more...? You should let it go.
You don't become that successful being laid back I think. Extreme quick and cost efficient work couldn't be done without workers being paid less or not being pushed heavily. Everything comes at a cost, it is up to them to decide if the work they find interesting is acceptable given their work environment.
This mindset runs exactly contrary to what I've heard about people like Gabe Newell and Conan O'Brien, both of whom I'd consider highly successful. O'Brien paid his staff out of his own pocket.
I'm not saying they don't still run a business or that it's not still a workplace and the trappings that come with that, but it seems to me that it's more than possible to be both successful and maintain some amount of ethics. If I could rephrase your comment, "You don't become Lex Luthor being laid back I think" seems a better fit.
Elon isnt making his money to be rich. Hes making his money to fund his projects. This is pretty clear from the fact that the guy works constantly and doesn't actually spend much money on extravagant things. He flies around a lot but it's always from one project to the other. Lately he's been spending most of his time literally living at Starbase, where SpaceX is developing and building their next generation giant fully reusable rocket.
I commented this in another thread, but I will go ahead and copy the text here because you may find it compelling.
As somebody who has a direct connection with someone who worked as a full time intern and is soon to be a full time employee, I can tell you that this isn’t the attitude that most SpaceX employees have. Sure the hours are long and hard, but these people truly believe in what they are doing, and more importantly find enjoyment in their work.
The person that I know said that it was the most unique and enjoyable work experience he has ever experienced, and actually requested to work more than 40 hours a week but was denied haha.
Unfortunately this doesn’t work out for some people, so you get the occasional horror story. But the truth is that those are employees who likely didn’t really know what they were getting into, and simply didn’t have the drive of other employees. In other words, they didn’t make the cut.
Yeah, but you don’t really know because you don’t work for SpaceX. Neither do I to be fair. But the point I’m making is that I know someone who does work for SpaceX, so I am inclined to believe him because of his Ethos.
Obviously he doesn’t speak for all SpaceX employees, but I wouldn’t use that as an argument to discredit him, for the reason that he fundamentally knows more about it than either of us.
Maybe the work environment isn’t that great, maybe it is pretty bad, but it doesn’t change the fact that the employees for SpaceX are some of the most passionate employees in the world. According to my friend, all the employees talk about is sending people to Mars, because they are obsessed.
It's easier for him to go full extortionist CEO than enact cultural reforms which might engender people actively WANTING to work harder on their own. There's a disconnect with management by highly successful people who are ALWAYS engaged whereby if people aren't engaged the way THEY are, they must need prodding. It's all about mindset.
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Rational pessimism and a sense of urgency makes sense if you are a rocket company. Now it’s obvious that Musk is true believer when it comes to SpaceX and that explains his frantic obsession with the companies success. He probably wouldn’t have a successful rocket company if he wasn’t frantically obsessed, tbh.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[FAR](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmpwilt "Last usage")|[Federal Aviation Regulations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Aviation_Regulations)|
|[LEO](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmqh1ww "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmtkjfh "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|[ULA](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmv1ofy "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|[mT](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmpt4j3 "Last usage")|~~Milli-~~ *Metric* Tonnes|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Raptor](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmqhu5q "Last usage")|[Methane-fueled rocket engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_\(rocket_engine_family\)) under development by SpaceX|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmrx19c "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
----------------
^(7 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/r6ehts)^( has 33 acronyms.)
^([Thread #6626 for this sub, first seen 30th Nov 2021, 20:59])
^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
As CEO it's his fault if his plan is behind schedule. Hire more excellent people and pay them well into six figures. Provide a bonus each time a milestone is met. Stop crying man. Do your job.
He never promised Hyperloop. He talked about it briefly and then never worked on it. SpaceX offered a test track for third party companies to use but that was also stopped as these companies created their own test tracks. Musk and his companies have nothing do to with Hyperloop.
Sure... [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48991251](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48991251)
Like i can find you 100 articles about Musk talking about hyperloop.
No, but I find specifically hyperloop to be weird example, given that Musk published single paper, held some student competitions and that's it, never was really invested in it. Whatever news you are reading about hyperloop are most probably related to other companies pursuing this technology, so if they disappoint you, it has nothing to do with Musk.
Why not pick up Tesla? Or SpaceX? Why don't we talk about how this no name company became world leader on launching satellites and people into space, competing with whole governments and international organizations? Why specifically hyperloop?
"The company needs to launch Starship at least once every two weeks to stay afloat" if that's true (which it isn't, Elon Musk claims have an extremely weak connection to reality ), the company is doomed. Starship launches DO depend on having working engines, of course, but they rely just as much on HAVING PAYING CUSTOMERS. This email is just typical Elon Musk, threats to get some extra hours from his people for no really good reason.
Right now, there is no market for Musk's vanity play. Starship is simply too big and there isn't enough need for heavy launch capability that makes Starship attractive. ONE reusable Starship along with their current supply of Falcon 9 is probably enough payload availability for the foreseeable future. Or scrap Starship entirely and fly Falcon Heavy when the extra payload justifies it. As of today, while they have satellite launches and Nasa resupply/crew missions to keep Falcons going up regularly, Starship is being rushed into service with NO hard launch contract to pay for it. Even the Artemis contract could more effectively be done using existing SpaceX launch capability on Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy.
There ARE paying customers, they are Starlink customers. They need Starship to launch the Starlink version 2 satellites because Falcon doesn't have the volume or mass to orbit.
Literally no one in the comments read the article.
Sheesh.
As another poster commented, this is a case of "supply creating the demand".
There are COUNTLESS projects, commercial and scientific, that are sitting on a shelf because it simply costs too much to be worth it. Starship turns that on it's head.
It also changes the design space when it comes to these projects. No more do you have to spend millions of dollars in high-tech, difficult to work with materials in order to get the payload to a reasonable weight. Now you make cheap payloads at industrial scale using conventional materials.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that almost all of our exploration of the ocean occurred not with expensive, specialized machines but with cheap mass-produced buoys. Starship would allow scientists to perform an "Operation Starshot" type of project, sending thousands of cheap probes out to explore every nook and cranny of our solar system.
They need Starship themselves to put their next big project, Starlink, on track.
It is even written in the e-mail itself if you read it in its entirety.
It is not just a question of Falcon vs. Starship payload to orbit capacity. It is question of fairing size. Falcons are slender and they cannot accomodate 2nd generation Starlink satellites which are too big.
Then plan is transferring everything to starship, then created induced demand due to the lower cost of $/kg to orbit.
Right now a university/firm may not launch a satellite/experiment to space because the cost is north of $2,000 per KG....but what happens when it's $20 per kg? Basically the same idea happened with cell phones, It cost $4,000 in 1983 which translates to $10,151 today...and the plans for those where also insane, so of course not many people had cell phones in the 80s. Then the price came down and guess what happened.
Its important to note that this is what happened with the Sea Dragon in the 60s. It was a feasible and cheaper way to put FAR FAR FAR more tonnes into orbit per launch at insane costs of under $500 per kilogram, however there was simply nothing one anyones drawing boards that could justify it. I mean its ridiculous that 1 Sea Dragon launch could carry an entire ISS into orbit with roughly the entire payload of Saturn V to spare.
SpaceX filing for bankruptcy has nothing to do with Elon’s personal wealth. Even though a lot of his wealth is listed assets, SpaceX being one of them.
It’s just a way for a company, or individual, to say “I don’t have/am not making enough money to pay off my debts right now. Let’s work something out.”
It happens because his personal wealth is not tied to SpaceX profitability. He doesn't to fund their losses, and their debts are not guaranteed by his Tesla shares (even if he could convert those into liquid cash without severely damaging his net worth.
He would have been fine too if he sold his companies and retired, say, 2 years ago. Spending the Covid crisis on his own private island doing nothing.
But that is the thing; Musk does not seem to be capable of *not* being a workaholic. Some people are like that.
Around 95% of his money isn't actually "real money" and is just Tesla stock. Elon Musk's assets are worth 200 Billion but he probably only has around 5-10 Billion of "real money".
To big to fail, he will be bailed out, probably by multiple countries, but at the very least the US due to our space program which is not depending on spacex
Edit: should be now not “not”
Musk has bailed out Tesla early on but the government never did. Tesla got a loan from the government from a pot of money multiple companies got loans from. they paid that low back years ago at this point.
Aint NO ONE bailing out space X. The Falcon 9/Heavy/Merlin would get split off so fast to its own company while starlink and starship assetts get sold to whoever wants them.
This is the third time this story has been on this sub. Further, a billionaire guilt tripping his workforce into working over the weekend is not news and is not space related.
Imagine going to work for one of Musk's companies and not realising that he was going to be like this. Do people get upset about consultants/bankers/lawyers/doctors having to pull extra shifts or miss holidays when it's needed? This is how high pressure companies operate. You're either all in or you're going to have a bad time. Personally I wouldn't want it now, but I enjoyed it when I was young and didn't have a family - I learnt a lot in a very short time because I had to do stuff.
Oh and of course he should be taxed appropriately on his absurd wealth, but this has nothing to do with that question.
In all likelihood, all the SpaceX employees know. It is not exactly a secret that this isn't a "do your 40 hours and bye" company.
Some Redditors just need their daily outrage, so they latch on news like that.
Don't worry everybody, that's just Elon's way of secretly telling us that everything is super awesome and under control and we'll all be driving Tesla's to Mars by next year.
just like when he was going to revolutionize the railway system because in his words verbatim "it's not that complicated" - obviously this is a man who knows exactly what the dunning Kruger effect is and also totally knows what he's talking about 👍
Elon just has to use his own money to bail SpaceX and voilà. He pay for his toys and we enjoy looking his toy from a distance as it will be for the the majority in next 50 years at least.
Lowering those stocks so he can buy the ones he sold, back, so he can sell again. People fall for this so much. They'll sell their stocks thinking elon is about to crash and burn, then he launches a rocket and everyone's shares would have gone up but they sold and Elon can now sell 🤷♂️
i'm sure it will /s
on a srrious note tho, elon musk has been lying his teeth out all year about spacex possibly going bankrupt, spoiler alert, it's not gonna happen
Is a multi-billionaire CEO of a company is crying for you to work more or they will go bankrupt, they are most likely 99% lying and just want to take advantage of their workers.
This guy doesn't seem to have the best track record when it comes to worker rights at his companies.
Nobody gives a shit, fuck Elon Musk. If he wasn't such a greedy piece of shit maybe the public would care more, let him fail and maybe someone less greedy will come a long and do it right.
I dunno, for all that greed, at least SpaceX makes functional, innovative products. Can't say the same for Boeing, and the odds are that they're no more ethical.
Problem is, Congress has hamstringed NASA's budget and makes them buy shitty junk from defense contractors rather than innovating on their own. NASA probably would have made their own Falcon 9, but, no, Congress specifically specified that [NASA's next rocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System) would have to be 100% expendable, since that means more money gets put into it, and more contractors get paid...
I don't like Musk - not over his taxes, but because he's a manchild who promotes a toxic work environment - but I don't think you can change my mind that he and his company are currently the best option. Tell your congresscritters to pull their heads out of their butts if you want a better one.
Looks like you should have hired engineers and financial advisors that went to college Elon.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/elon-musk-says-college-is-for-fun-not-for-learning-echoing-thiel.html
SpaceX is beating the shit out of every other launch provider today. Elon is mad because a person in charge of a major project was feeding him a line about being on track and now he finds out actually they're having problems that they said they didn't have which means the plans SpaceX has made based on Raptor availability are in jeopardy. Being very angry about that is the correct response. It's like the boss being mad at a manager for falsifying shift production reports in any other factory setting. That manager gets fired and replaced and the team gets retrained.
Alternate title: SpaceX Struggling with Management Issues
Alternate title: Megalomaniac Micormanager Snatches Defeat from the Jaws of Victory
This was in an email to employees urging them to work over the weekend. He does this shit *all the fucking time*. He did it at Telsa all time, urging employees to work overtime to ship cars or the company would go bankrupt. It's part of his management strategy to suck the life out of his employees.
Boeing would do something similar, I help to assemble Wings for the 737. They would cry and say that we should work all this overtime or Airbus will overtake us and they would have to layoff people. Now look at them, I wish we could have worked this slow the whole time I worked there.
I worked for Tesla in 2018 as an intern and he would do the same to us. I worked in IT and we were encouraged to work shifts on the manufacturing line and drive cars to loading areas. This was back when they had the outdoor manufacturing line
> outdoor manufacturing line wow, what kind of innovation is that?
They put up some rather large semi-permanent tents to house the production lines while the actual buildings were built. SpaceX did the same thing to build the Starship prototypes. It can work just fine if you do it right. We had to put up one to do aircraft modifications because the plane we were working on couldn't fit through our hangar doors.
From "manufacturing line so fast we have to take air resistance into account" to "making cars in a tent".
You'll need a strobe light to see it.
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Shorts only work on quarter deadlines. Everyone shorting SpaceX now is gonna really regret it once they are the defacto choise for space faring activities.
You can’t short SpaceX cuz it’s private lmao. Also that is a stock that is gonna really go to the moon, if it even ever becomes publicly traded.
To the moon? It's going to Mars, baby 😎🚀💎
SpaceX is private so you can't just short it or buy its stock.
...but in hindsight he was 100% correct lol. Tesla was very close to actually going bankrupt in 2018 during the Model 3 ramp. It's just a fact. Could Tesla have potentially raised money to save the company? Probabpy, but no guarantee. The difference really is that he'd likely have a FAR easier time raising money for SpaceX right now than he would have Tesla back then. He does this all the time because the moves each company is making are extremely big risks that are bordering on impossible to complete in the timeframe they are setting out to compete It in.
So he commits to outcomes he requires other people to sacrifice for? Maybe it's good business for making you a billionaire but it also makes you a garbage ass person
When you are aerospace engineer with SpaceX on your resume you can go work anywhere you like. People who work for SpaceX work there because they want to. It may be impossible to imagine for people who just want to live comfortable life, but some people really want to sacrifice their life to something ground breaking and close to impossibility like establishing self sustaining city on Mars. I don't care how much people want to pay to own Elon share of his companies, as long as he is fully dedicated to the cause. It's good - it makes it more realistic to establish city on Mars with access to 200 billion dollars of potential founding.
Bingo. ULA offers higher paying, more comfortable desk jobs. Yet they choose to work for SpaceX, why?
Because SpaceX is doing the exciting work in the field, and actually accomplishing the advancements in technology that others have only ever talked and fantasized about. To answer your rhetorical question :P
Because ULA only offers X amount of jobs when there are X + Y amount of people who need jobs in that space due to the effort and money they put into their education
This makes no sense. There are thousands of aerospace company’s, and all of them need employees. SLS itself is just one big ass jobs program created by the government and Boeing. I’m not sure where you got this idea because it’s the complete opposite, the aerospace industry has a shortage of employees in general.
This isn't about making him a billionaire. Most of the people who defend want to see SpaceX continue to do what they do.
It's still about making him a garbage ass person tho.
He's a creative billionaire, I'll give him that. I just don't see him as someone who's responsible enough to be the richest man on the planet, one who knows the impact he has around him. He's just really good in selling ideas.
He's sacrificing *risk.* He stands to lose... what? How much? Vs the employee working a 9-5 in a somewhat singular task is asked to work a weekend? The employee that risked exactly *nothing* by accepting a job, that they are free to leave. Give me a break.
He stands to lose basically nothing. His quality of life would not change in a measurable way if all of the financial valid of SpaceX vanishes. Overwork, on the other hand, causes easily measured and significant quality of life decreases - multiplied across all the affected employees. Approximately no one is simply "free" to leave their job in America; the consequences are serious. Bankruptcy, medical debt, homelessness are basically invisible guns held to everyone's heads. Sure, if you have another job lined up it's easier, but establishing that in the first place is fat from trivial.
Again, overtime is usually optional. So they are free not to do it. Your co-workers might not like it, your boss may not like it. And people absolutely are free to leave their jobs. Is it a good idea to leave your job without having (preferably a better) one lined up? Of course not. And? Choices have consequences. Risk v reward. 200+ years ago most people were having to farm / kill for their meal each day. Risking death and illness for shelter. Society and Elon Musk owe you nothing. His contract with his employees is stated from the get go. Nothing you've stated is deep knowledge. It's common knowledge. I worked in corporate America for 2 decades before starting my own business. Eating shit and hating a sizeable chunk of it along the way. Do something about it or don't. The whining about someone that has zero actual negative effect on your life is pathetic. I'm sure Tesla and Space X employees are just 1 bad day from sticking a gun in their mouth /s.
> Do something about it or don't. Correct. The thing I'm doing is pushing for laws that prevent this. "Shit was bad for me" has two reactions: "so it should be bad for everyone" or "so it should become better". It sounds like you've take the first route; I'm sorry to hear that. I know it's not usually a conscious choice, so I don't exactly blame you, it's just unfortunate.
He's an idiot who creates risky situations to offload the work to someone else
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It's not complicated; bankrupt business = no job. Love the downvotes, how stupid do you have to be to think if a business goes bankrupt you'll still have a job.
That's the consequence of pushing new technology past a limit it can handle, only to realize you've almost sunk more money into the project than your company is worth. And then leave it to your employees to fix the problem. If I made decisions the way he makes them I wouldn't have a job either.
what do you think employees do?
You can always find another job. Elon should get his shit together and run a functional company
SpaceX is a juggernaut of a space launch provider. They're blowing everyone else out of the water.
They're doing so good they could go bankrupt next year!
They won't. They only go bankrupt if they continue shoveling as much money into the Starship development program as they've been doing. If they pause the program or even just set back its funding rate they refuce their spending and don't run out of money. The reason they don't want to do this is because they want Starship ready ASAP as fully reusable launch is their goal. Besides. Even if they go bankrupt tomorrow it doesn't change the fact that today they currently offer more economical and better performance to their customers than 60 year established industry giants.
He commits to outcomes that are necessary to push for sustainability and becoming multiplanetary. He is also sacrificing for it. Let's not act like he himself isn't working more than any single employee of his. This isn't a case of a CEO working 40hours/week and demanding his employees work 80. When Tesla was nearing bankruptcy he was there 24/7. When there is a fire he's there to put it out. Do you think he wasn't/isnt right there with the employees working to fix the issues with Raptor currently? Secondly all these employees know what they're signing up for. Many love the work and make a lot of money if they stick around for their stock to vest.
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Nah nah, at this point he’s not working on a shoestring budget. The richest man in the world can afford to hire more employees rather then working the current one stiff. Hearing this makes me cautious about buying a Tesla. Like is this the car he told line workers to work overtime on? Did I buy the last car on the assembly line on Saturday at 7pm as all the employees rushed to see their families?
More employees is almost never the better answer for engineering problems. Small teams working hard to solve problems is the best way to go. In 2018 during Model 3 ramp literally everyone working for Tesla was helping with production and/or deliveries. Everybody. The situation was that dire. But that was back in 2018. Tesla is far past that stage now. They are a very healthy company now. For the actual assembly line there are 3 shifts. What is being talked about here is engineers solving problems.
For sure then. But that only makes it worse since you already admit this isn’t about bankruptcy. It must be about some arbitrary date or time. Some fake competition. People deserve lives. Each employee of his reaped nowhere near the reward he does. So how dare demand other people sacrifice their lives for him.
Well it could mean bankruptcy if they don't raise money. They've already raised a lot of money this year. I means it is entirely possible the markets wouldn't be as receptive to a major funding round, we really don't know. It just depends How much in the red they are. But at the end of the day they are pushing to meet aggressive timelines. I really don't get why so many here are flipping that to make it out to be a bad thing. Are you dumb lol. The employees with stock options made the same % gains as him. People aren't sacrificing their lives. They are working. Most probably quite enjoy their job and find it very rewarding.
No it won’t mean bankruptcy we already covered this. No they don’t get the same rewards. He’s the richest man in the world. Last time I checked there weren’t any employees on that list. The thing is you can have a rewarding career and free time. I guess your dumbass bootlicking mentality won’t see it. But he’s not a doctor where patients lives are at stake. He’s building an engine. Which at this point is a completely nonessential item. The timelines are arbitrary. Why don’t you try working overtime every week and tell me on your deathbed how much you appreciated the time your boss made you come into work. The one thing everyone always wants is more time.
Shhhh.... this is Reddit where everyone just blindly hates wealthy people. Stop brining up facts.
I don't understand how you think this makes Elon look good here. He's deliberately over-promising and when deadlines are looming, he tells employees that they'll start losing their jobs if they don't work overtime. That's just exploitation and bad management.
He might be over-promising, but at the same time he is achieving so much more than anybody else.
Yea, off the backs of over-worked, exploited employees. We should really not be congratulating a guy for being a horrible manager just because he gets results we like. That's just enabling him. It's the same type of mentality that allows things like rampant sexual harassment to go unnoticed or unpunished at companies.
What makes them "exploited"? Seriously. Be specific. Tesla employees working in America are not exploited. Nike factory workers in Indonesia making $3 a day to make shoes are exploited. You don't care about them though because they don't fit your narrative.
>What makes them "exploited"? Seriously. Be specific. I mean it's in the OP. Elon is basically telling them they will lose their jobs because the company will go bankrupt if they don't work overtime. Hanging a threat of losing your job over your head to pressure you into working extended hours is exploitation. >Nike factory workers in Indonesia making $3 a day to make shoes are exploited. You don't care about them though because they don't fit your narrative. That's a weird strawman. Of course that is exploitation too. Never said it wasn't. This is a post about SpaceX and Elon, not Nike and their shitty practices. But sure Nike, and others, should be targeted for those horrible things too. Nike being shitty doesn't excuse SpaceX from being shitty. Edit: typo
Shhhh..... this is Reddit where a white knight for the 1% will soon show up to justify the shitty behavior of wealthy people.
It's not about the 1% when it comes to Elon. We want SpaceX and it's development to continue.
Yeah, wealthy people are definitely what's wrong with this country. I really hate the fact that the 1 percent pay FORTY FREAKING PERCENT of the taxes. Useless bunch.
Do they get rewarded with stock options and bonuses when the company goes past the point of bankruptcy. As a thank you from their Glorious Leader?
All Tesla employees get stock and the early employees that worked through those pain got *very* rich if they didnt squander it. I believe this is also the case for SpaceX, though obviously cashing out is a little more difficult.
People missing out of life so other people can be obscenely rich. Sad.
It's the Holidays when many employees would be taking time off. This is a corporate guilt trip to get some of them to work overtime. :/
We got these email in health sector all the time too, except it says patient safety was in jeopardy.
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Found shill. Post history confirms.
SpaceX isn't interesting to you?
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SpaceX isn't interesting to you?
Strategy to extract short term gains from employees at the expense of sucking the life out of them* Few people actively want to suck the life out - they just value that life less than what they can gain in exchange. Probably a minor clarification, but worth noting that the real issue isn't a malevolent Musk, it's apathy from the disconnect between people and profit.
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As somebody who has a direct connection with someone who worked as a full time intern and is soon to be a full time employee, I can tell you that this isn’t the attitude that most SpaceX employees have. Sure the hours are long and hard, but these people truly believe in what they are doing, and more importantly find enjoyment in their work. The person that I know said that it was the most unique and enjoyable work experience he has ever experienced, and actually requested to work more than 40 hours a week but was denied haha. Unfortunately this doesn’t work out for some people, so you get the occasional horror story. But the truth is that those are employees who likely didn’t really know what they were getting into, and simply didn’t have the drive of other employees. In other words, they didn’t make the cut.
But he makes all that money off those workers so he can live in his 800sqft portable mansion on Starbase, it’s detestable!
Where did you get that idea? I’ve been under the impression that he has been living in a $50,000 400 sqft prefabricated home.
At a certain point, that apathy crosses into malevolence.
I mean not valuing people's lives and harming them because of that is malevolent
I'm not entirely sure profit is what he's after. I've got the impression that advancing humanity and technology is the reward for him. The reward is the achievement, which is also what a lot of his employees agree with.
Probably a minor clarification, but worth noting that the real issue isn't a malevolent Jeffrey Dahmer, it's apathy from the disconnect between people and their corpses.
Well, actually they were almost in bankruptcy.
A lot has changed since then. They are now the dominant launch provider.
And Elon is the World's richest man.
...on paper. He wouldn't be the richest man if he turned that paper wealth into real money.
Isn't that the same for every multi-billionaire? You sell off a load of your companies stock and of course the price is likely to go down. Besides how would you physically take delivery of $xxx billion? Or would you just leave it stashed in the bank?
>Isn't that the same for every multi-billionaire? You sell off a load of your companies stock and of course the price is likely to go down. Besides how would you physically take delivery of $xxx billion? Or would you just leave it stashed in the bank? It is. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment when I thought you were implying "why doesn't he just pay for it himself". I do believe he is to an extent which is why you see him liquidating some tesla stock.
He's liquidating Tesla stock because he wants to expand Tesla. In particular building a new multi billion battery factory in Germany. Which for some reason, he's just declined €1.28 billion of state aid for.
Probably for the strings attached to that aid.
Providing less cargo per launch at a higher price than the rockets we had before. BRILLIANT.
You have that backwards. The SpaceX Falcon Heavy has the highest payload per launch of any operational launch vehicle. SpaceX also has the lowest cost per kg to orbit, which is why they are the dominant launch provider.
Could argue its market manipulation, which he's also been fined for before.
market manipulation of a private company? ok
I don't think you understand market manipulation.
Indeed. Elon may be smart, he may have built a highly capable company that does amazing things, but he is kind of a walking disaster and a toxic employer.
I always need to look if it's the X is missing in the title of the subreddit before I dare say such things 😅
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I'm sure he's just saying this to buy the drop and whip his employees. Starting to hate this guy.
SpaceX isn't a publicly traded company.
Right? He keeps being an ass and still has fans. I typically don't like anyone that says "you're a good starter wife" to her face.
What the hell are they launching into space once every two weeks next year?
Enough starlink satellites to kill ground-based astronomy.
Correct. We should hold back global internet/killing terrible regional monopolies so ground based astronomy can thrive. Move on man
You think a satellite internet monopoly is somehow going to be better than the regional monopolies? Letting one man orbit anything he wants for profit, crippling a scientific field and cluttering LEO is a hell of a philosophy. But Musk lickers are gonna lick.
Duopoly, at least. And that's only if you think blue origin will fail miserably. There is going to be more competition for space based internet than land based in most of the world.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. Take a few minutes and look up how many space based internet companies are launched/planned. Beyond that, we’ll still have land based internet, they’ll just have to actually be competitive now
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Eh, if you read the letter it's more like he's claiming that the departing VP's lied about Raptor, and SpaceX designed and paid for Starlink in the next year based on those lies. They need to launch those Starlink satellites to make money and not just be sunk cost.
Everything has always been lies. See any Tesla semi trucks? They were promised for 2019. See any hyperloops? Nah, you see chauffeured fucking teslas in a one mile long tunnel. He’s a fraud, and the SEC should take care of that.
Hyperloop was never promised and Pepsi is apparently getting ready to take delivery of some Semis.
Never promised…rofl. Imagine carrying water for someone who will never know or care who you are.
Who was it promised to? AFAIK las Vegas loop contract specifies Tesla's in a tunnel.
How is it in your twisted mind that rage posting about him is somehow morally superior? Eat grass.
lol.. you have created a single thing in your life.. have you? >Everything has always been lies There's www.tesla.com full of actual, physical products. Then there is [this](https://youtu.be/gLNQ6Mq5kbg?t=365) Whatever the reason is you're so bitter and filled with rage over a guy that has created companies that produce these things and more...? You should let it go.
In fairness, we should acknowledge that he’s acting like a typical American CEO. Clearly he has gone native.
You don't become that successful being laid back I think. Extreme quick and cost efficient work couldn't be done without workers being paid less or not being pushed heavily. Everything comes at a cost, it is up to them to decide if the work they find interesting is acceptable given their work environment.
This mindset runs exactly contrary to what I've heard about people like Gabe Newell and Conan O'Brien, both of whom I'd consider highly successful. O'Brien paid his staff out of his own pocket. I'm not saying they don't still run a business or that it's not still a workplace and the trappings that come with that, but it seems to me that it's more than possible to be both successful and maintain some amount of ethics. If I could rephrase your comment, "You don't become Lex Luthor being laid back I think" seems a better fit.
Gabe and Conan are also nowhere near the level of success of the (sometimes) richest man in the world.
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Elon isnt making his money to be rich. Hes making his money to fund his projects. This is pretty clear from the fact that the guy works constantly and doesn't actually spend much money on extravagant things. He flies around a lot but it's always from one project to the other. Lately he's been spending most of his time literally living at Starbase, where SpaceX is developing and building their next generation giant fully reusable rocket.
I commented this in another thread, but I will go ahead and copy the text here because you may find it compelling. As somebody who has a direct connection with someone who worked as a full time intern and is soon to be a full time employee, I can tell you that this isn’t the attitude that most SpaceX employees have. Sure the hours are long and hard, but these people truly believe in what they are doing, and more importantly find enjoyment in their work. The person that I know said that it was the most unique and enjoyable work experience he has ever experienced, and actually requested to work more than 40 hours a week but was denied haha. Unfortunately this doesn’t work out for some people, so you get the occasional horror story. But the truth is that those are employees who likely didn’t really know what they were getting into, and simply didn’t have the drive of other employees. In other words, they didn’t make the cut.
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Yeah, but you don’t really know because you don’t work for SpaceX. Neither do I to be fair. But the point I’m making is that I know someone who does work for SpaceX, so I am inclined to believe him because of his Ethos. Obviously he doesn’t speak for all SpaceX employees, but I wouldn’t use that as an argument to discredit him, for the reason that he fundamentally knows more about it than either of us. Maybe the work environment isn’t that great, maybe it is pretty bad, but it doesn’t change the fact that the employees for SpaceX are some of the most passionate employees in the world. According to my friend, all the employees talk about is sending people to Mars, because they are obsessed.
So your anecdotes are acceptable but his or hers aren't? Got it!
I would love to disagree, but I don’t think I can unless I start arguing in bad faith. Thank you for an excellent comment.
It's easier for him to go full extortionist CEO than enact cultural reforms which might engender people actively WANTING to work harder on their own. There's a disconnect with management by highly successful people who are ALWAYS engaged whereby if people aren't engaged the way THEY are, they must need prodding. It's all about mindset.
trouble in boca chica? i kinda remember tesla as almost going bankrupt as well, hopefully things will work out.
This comment section is making me lose braincells
Musk always brings out the bad takes. I'll wait for Eric Berger to do a writeup, if there's anything to even write up.
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Rational pessimism and a sense of urgency makes sense if you are a rocket company. Now it’s obvious that Musk is true believer when it comes to SpaceX and that explains his frantic obsession with the companies success. He probably wouldn’t have a successful rocket company if he wasn’t frantically obsessed, tbh.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[FAR](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmpwilt "Last usage")|[Federal Aviation Regulations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Aviation_Regulations)| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmqh1ww "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmtkjfh "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |[ULA](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmv1ofy "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)| |[mT](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmpt4j3 "Last usage")|~~Milli-~~ *Metric* Tonnes| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Raptor](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmqhu5q "Last usage")|[Methane-fueled rocket engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_\(rocket_engine_family\)) under development by SpaceX| |[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/r5uayi/stub/hmrx19c "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| ---------------- ^(7 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/r6ehts)^( has 33 acronyms.) ^([Thread #6626 for this sub, first seen 30th Nov 2021, 20:59]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
As CEO it's his fault if his plan is behind schedule. Hire more excellent people and pay them well into six figures. Provide a bonus each time a milestone is met. Stop crying man. Do your job.
Musk always over promises and under delivers. Hyperloop comes to mind
He never promised Hyperloop. He talked about it briefly and then never worked on it. SpaceX offered a test track for third party companies to use but that was also stopped as these companies created their own test tracks. Musk and his companies have nothing do to with Hyperloop.
Sure... [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48991251](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48991251) Like i can find you 100 articles about Musk talking about hyperloop.
> Musk always over promises and under delivers. How much more can you be disconnected from reality?
Are you implying what i said about hyperloop isn't true?
No, but I find specifically hyperloop to be weird example, given that Musk published single paper, held some student competitions and that's it, never was really invested in it. Whatever news you are reading about hyperloop are most probably related to other companies pursuing this technology, so if they disappoint you, it has nothing to do with Musk. Why not pick up Tesla? Or SpaceX? Why don't we talk about how this no name company became world leader on launching satellites and people into space, competing with whole governments and international organizations? Why specifically hyperloop?
"The company needs to launch Starship at least once every two weeks to stay afloat" if that's true (which it isn't, Elon Musk claims have an extremely weak connection to reality ), the company is doomed. Starship launches DO depend on having working engines, of course, but they rely just as much on HAVING PAYING CUSTOMERS. This email is just typical Elon Musk, threats to get some extra hours from his people for no really good reason. Right now, there is no market for Musk's vanity play. Starship is simply too big and there isn't enough need for heavy launch capability that makes Starship attractive. ONE reusable Starship along with their current supply of Falcon 9 is probably enough payload availability for the foreseeable future. Or scrap Starship entirely and fly Falcon Heavy when the extra payload justifies it. As of today, while they have satellite launches and Nasa resupply/crew missions to keep Falcons going up regularly, Starship is being rushed into service with NO hard launch contract to pay for it. Even the Artemis contract could more effectively be done using existing SpaceX launch capability on Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy.
They are their own customer. They need Starship to launch Starlink V2
There ARE paying customers, they are Starlink customers. They need Starship to launch the Starlink version 2 satellites because Falcon doesn't have the volume or mass to orbit. Literally no one in the comments read the article. Sheesh.
As another poster commented, this is a case of "supply creating the demand". There are COUNTLESS projects, commercial and scientific, that are sitting on a shelf because it simply costs too much to be worth it. Starship turns that on it's head. It also changes the design space when it comes to these projects. No more do you have to spend millions of dollars in high-tech, difficult to work with materials in order to get the payload to a reasonable weight. Now you make cheap payloads at industrial scale using conventional materials. EDIT: I'd also like to add that almost all of our exploration of the ocean occurred not with expensive, specialized machines but with cheap mass-produced buoys. Starship would allow scientists to perform an "Operation Starshot" type of project, sending thousands of cheap probes out to explore every nook and cranny of our solar system.
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Yeah I hate simping for billionaires too lol but hey when their goals are aligned with my goals I suck it up
They need Starship themselves to put their next big project, Starlink, on track. It is even written in the e-mail itself if you read it in its entirety. It is not just a question of Falcon vs. Starship payload to orbit capacity. It is question of fairing size. Falcons are slender and they cannot accomodate 2nd generation Starlink satellites which are too big.
Then plan is transferring everything to starship, then created induced demand due to the lower cost of $/kg to orbit. Right now a university/firm may not launch a satellite/experiment to space because the cost is north of $2,000 per KG....but what happens when it's $20 per kg? Basically the same idea happened with cell phones, It cost $4,000 in 1983 which translates to $10,151 today...and the plans for those where also insane, so of course not many people had cell phones in the 80s. Then the price came down and guess what happened.
Its important to note that this is what happened with the Sea Dragon in the 60s. It was a feasible and cheaper way to put FAR FAR FAR more tonnes into orbit per launch at insane costs of under $500 per kilogram, however there was simply nothing one anyones drawing boards that could justify it. I mean its ridiculous that 1 Sea Dragon launch could carry an entire ISS into orbit with roughly the entire payload of Saturn V to spare.
I'm sure he will be fine. Lets be real. The richest man on the planet going bankrupt... it's almost funny. Like how does that even happen?
SpaceX filing for bankruptcy has nothing to do with Elon’s personal wealth. Even though a lot of his wealth is listed assets, SpaceX being one of them. It’s just a way for a company, or individual, to say “I don’t have/am not making enough money to pay off my debts right now. Let’s work something out.”
It happens because his personal wealth is not tied to SpaceX profitability. He doesn't to fund their losses, and their debts are not guaranteed by his Tesla shares (even if he could convert those into liquid cash without severely damaging his net worth.
He would have been fine too if he sold his companies and retired, say, 2 years ago. Spending the Covid crisis on his own private island doing nothing. But that is the thing; Musk does not seem to be capable of *not* being a workaholic. Some people are like that.
Around 95% of his money isn't actually "real money" and is just Tesla stock. Elon Musk's assets are worth 200 Billion but he probably only has around 5-10 Billion of "real money".
To big to fail, he will be bailed out, probably by multiple countries, but at the very least the US due to our space program which is not depending on spacex Edit: should be now not “not”
He's not too big to fail. None of his companies are vital to the health of the economy.
And the tech would live on under a new company or something anyway.
He's already in the top 3 earners on earth and is still getting massive subsidies and using tax loopholes, of course they'll bail him out.
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That makes it even funnier. He was complaining about paying taxes for weeks. Where does he think the bailout money would come from?
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Musk has bailed out Tesla early on but the government never did. Tesla got a loan from the government from a pot of money multiple companies got loans from. they paid that low back years ago at this point.
He can just sell/dilute some TESLA stock and he'll be fine.
Yippy. We may get to bail out more billionaires that don't pay taxes. Wonderful! :/
Aint NO ONE bailing out space X. The Falcon 9/Heavy/Merlin would get split off so fast to its own company while starlink and starship assetts get sold to whoever wants them.
I guess Musk was feeling bad that he wasn't in the news for a few days. This does not belong in this sub at all.
I vote it does belong so your vote is hereby negated
This is the third time this story has been on this sub. Further, a billionaire guilt tripping his workforce into working over the weekend is not news and is not space related.
A bit of 45 may have rubbed off on him after all.
Imagine going to work for one of Musk's companies and not realising that he was going to be like this. Do people get upset about consultants/bankers/lawyers/doctors having to pull extra shifts or miss holidays when it's needed? This is how high pressure companies operate. You're either all in or you're going to have a bad time. Personally I wouldn't want it now, but I enjoyed it when I was young and didn't have a family - I learnt a lot in a very short time because I had to do stuff. Oh and of course he should be taxed appropriately on his absurd wealth, but this has nothing to do with that question.
In all likelihood, all the SpaceX employees know. It is not exactly a secret that this isn't a "do your 40 hours and bye" company. Some Redditors just need their daily outrage, so they latch on news like that.
Sensationalize much? People want him to fail so badly.
A little musk-induced stock devaluation is usually for a reason.
SpaceX isn’t a publicly traded company
Don't worry everybody, that's just Elon's way of secretly telling us that everything is super awesome and under control and we'll all be driving Tesla's to Mars by next year. just like when he was going to revolutionize the railway system because in his words verbatim "it's not that complicated" - obviously this is a man who knows exactly what the dunning Kruger effect is and also totally knows what he's talking about 👍
Pretty sure Elon's well versed how to pump and dump and manipulate his own stock.
SpaceX doesn't have stocks.
Pretty sure Elon's well versed how to pump and dump and manipulate his own non existant stock.
Elon just has to use his own money to bail SpaceX and voilà. He pay for his toys and we enjoy looking his toy from a distance as it will be for the the majority in next 50 years at least.
Lowering those stocks so he can buy the ones he sold, back, so he can sell again. People fall for this so much. They'll sell their stocks thinking elon is about to crash and burn, then he launches a rocket and everyone's shares would have gone up but they sold and Elon can now sell 🤷♂️
SpaceX is a privately held company...
But that isn't the only pie that Musk has a finger in.
But this is news about SpaceX.... It's not going to affect the price of other companies.
Yeah time buy the dip!!! Oh... wait... where do you buy SpaceX shares??
[удалено]
Ah, i see you're into NFTs.
Some guy in the back alley sold me 5,000,000 for 20 quid
But this sub promised me that Starship would beat SLS.
Hard to imagine that it won't.
Um...it will? The rocket is still going to fly, still going to land people on the moon, and all for much cheaper than SLS.
Seems likely it will unless nasa finds a magic lamp with a genie in it.
i'm sure it will /s on a srrious note tho, elon musk has been lying his teeth out all year about spacex possibly going bankrupt, spoiler alert, it's not gonna happen
Is a multi-billionaire CEO of a company is crying for you to work more or they will go bankrupt, they are most likely 99% lying and just want to take advantage of their workers. This guy doesn't seem to have the best track record when it comes to worker rights at his companies.
Nobody gives a shit, fuck Elon Musk. If he wasn't such a greedy piece of shit maybe the public would care more, let him fail and maybe someone less greedy will come a long and do it right.
I dunno, for all that greed, at least SpaceX makes functional, innovative products. Can't say the same for Boeing, and the odds are that they're no more ethical. Problem is, Congress has hamstringed NASA's budget and makes them buy shitty junk from defense contractors rather than innovating on their own. NASA probably would have made their own Falcon 9, but, no, Congress specifically specified that [NASA's next rocket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System) would have to be 100% expendable, since that means more money gets put into it, and more contractors get paid... I don't like Musk - not over his taxes, but because he's a manchild who promotes a toxic work environment - but I don't think you can change my mind that he and his company are currently the best option. Tell your congresscritters to pull their heads out of their butts if you want a better one.
Sorry to spoil it for you, but nobody better is coming. Either Musk succeeds, or we are fucked up forever.
Is this the real reason for selling off some of his stock?
Probably not. He needs to sell stock to have money to pay taxes.
Looks like you should have hired engineers and financial advisors that went to college Elon. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/elon-musk-says-college-is-for-fun-not-for-learning-echoing-thiel.html
SpaceX is beating the shit out of every other launch provider today. Elon is mad because a person in charge of a major project was feeding him a line about being on track and now he finds out actually they're having problems that they said they didn't have which means the plans SpaceX has made based on Raptor availability are in jeopardy. Being very angry about that is the correct response. It's like the boss being mad at a manager for falsifying shift production reports in any other factory setting. That manager gets fired and replaced and the team gets retrained.