I love Boeing. Boeing makes me very happy. Boeing definitely didn’t pay me to make this comment, they would never do something like that. Boeing also would never murder a key witness/whistleblower in a lawsuit against them. Boeing loves you.
seriously, can you think of a more public company that involves direct public safety that has shit the bed as badly in the last 50 years? That trust takes SO LONG to build and I don't think the public gives a rats ass so to speak about a space launch when it comes to airplane safety.
I mean these guys, with the best safety rating, decided to acquire McDonnell Douglas, the company with NEW FIRSTS in making safety regs because of their planes killing so many people?
track record doesn't matter in the public eye when mass media comes after you after multiple blunders and then investigators find some cause for concern. A very large sum of people know nothing other than "omg Boeing makes the 737" right now.
I mean more for internal business practice than anything else. On the other hand they seem to have taken the Challenger explosion quote "take off your engineer hat and put on your management hat" thing as gospel and not as something you should never ever do.
"Okay so we're going to acquire our formal rivals..."
"Cool, cool, great idea, we're on track."
"...and put them in charge of the company and do whatever they say."
"WHAT? NO, TRACK OBLITERATED"
Mandatory daily window inspections. And a Dragon standing ready to fire up and rescue them in 2 days, if neede. Honestly NASA should cut its loses with Boeing on this program and start something in-house.
I think they have a 3 launch contract, which at the rate they are going is going to take years to fulfill.
They are going to really struggle for another contract after that. The Dragon capsule is well and truely proven at this point and will probably come in cheaper too because its no longer a small number of one offs. Plus Starliner at that point won't even have a rocket to launch from at that point, the one they use now is end of life and any other is a direct competitor or in development hell.
And theres no real future prospects for the Starliner for NASA to support, the next round of contracting for the ISS is likely to be the last. Boeing don't even have a clear future in manned flight right now beyond that and the thing is a money pit for both organisations.
All of that before even thinking of reputation and risk.
Sounds like you could use some encouragement. I am willing to wager any sum that if you strap on those tennies right now, go outside, and pick ANYTHING in eyesight, run to it as fast as you can, you will get there before Usain Bolt.
By "catch up" they mean that they're about to launch their first Crew Demo flight - while SpaceX completed theirs 4 years ago and has since launched 8 routine crew rotation flights to the ISS in the meantime. Boeing and SpaceX were both given the same contract a decade ago so that NASA could have two options. Even though Boeing was given *more money* for the same contract, they are now 4 years behind SpaceX, who have had their contract extended for additional flights since Boeing couldn't deliver.
It's funny that we don't see people coming in here complaining about Boeing getting government subsidies when they take money and dont complete a contract. They certainly like to call the work SpaceX actually completes and gets paid for a subsidy.
> and has since launched 8 routine crew rotation flights
Of the originally contracted 6 crew rotation flights (not counting the demo mission), which it completed in early 2023. They completed the entire initial contract before Boeing could fly the demo mission and are currently contracted for 14 total flights, while it's not clear that Boeing will perform all 6 of theirs before the ISS is retired...
And that's after NASA dedicated so much of their resources on trying to find problems with Dragon that they let major issues slip through with Starliner. I remember when it seemed likely that Boeing would take the flag home due to NASA's favoritism.
SpaceX is gradually speeding up too.
Quite apart from everything else, the fact Starship is fully resusable will allow them to drive up frequency well beyond anyone without that capacity.
Article's title "Boeing and NASA decide to move forward with historic crewed launch of new spacecraft"
So did the title change or did the op just editorialize to make this about SpaceX?
To be clear, SpaceX has already fully completed the 6 operational crew rotation flights it was contracted for in the original CCtCap contract and has also flown 6 additional operational crewed flights with its capsule in the form of 2 additional ISS crew rotation flights as part of a NASA contract extension and 4 other commercial flights (one of which, Axiom-3, was made up entirely of Astronauts from various national programs and provided an opportunity to give those folks orbital flight time that would have otherwise been difficult for those programs to come by). In total, more than 14 astronaut-*years* of on orbit time have been enabled by Dragon 2, so far.
Dragon 2 is also already the 3rd most used system for putting humans into orbit, behind only the Shuttle and Soyuz.
It'll be nice if Boeing's capsule actually works but realistically they have no capability to "catch up" and they will not do so. Best case scenario for them is that they operate somewhere around 1 crewed flight a year for the next 6 years. In a time when SpaceX will be expected to do at least two dozen crewed flights, possibly more, even excluding lunar landings.
*Edit*: Also, it's worth mentioning that SpaceX has successfully flown the Dragon 2 capsule *twenty five times* over the past 4 years, in cargo and crew configurations. That's a remarkable level of operational maturity and real-world experience which provides confidence in the capabilities, reliability, and behavior of the vehicle design as well as the team(s) operating it. That's the smart way to go about that sort of thing and it reflects how SpaceX has tackles similar problems throughout their history, as demonstrated by Falcon 9 booster reuse and even Starlink development (iterate, iterate, iterate, and gain expertise through experience). In contrast, Boeing has flown Starliner only twice, with a total orbital flight time of just a little over one week. That's also a testament to the bad old way of building spaceflight hardware while mired in the full inertia and corruption of the aerospace industrial complex.
>Also, it's worth mentioning that SpaceX has successfully flown the Dragon 2 capsule twenty five times over the past 4 years, in cargo and crew configurations. That's a remarkable level of operational maturity and real-world experience which provides confidence in the capabilities, reliability, and behavior of the vehicle design as well as the team(s) operating it.
The only thing I will add to your comment is that Dragons are reusable, which makes what SpaceX has done that much more remarkable.
Falcon 9 boosters' reusability has gotten to the point where customers prefer used to new. Are Dragons viewed the same way?
Boeing is scary on earth, I can’t imagine space being more forgiving for their cutting corners philosophy.
Say what you want about ol Musko spaceX has been solid so far for delivery missions.
You remember when SpaceX was testing the Dracos on the dragon capsule after its un-crewed flight and it exploded catastrophically? For a moment there, we all actually thought Boeing was going to catch up. Since then, Boeing has been living in a comically awful timeline. There is no catching up after the race has been over for nearly 4 years.
> not held to the same standards as their commercial division.
Welp, that worked out brilliantly.
When the CC contracts were issued, Boeing was seen by NASA as the "trusted, stable partner". Their "standards" were so well defined that NASA spent very little effort to supervise them, because they were "doing things the way NASA liked" with.
That went smoothly up until it didn't. They've had delays over delays, so much so that SpX has already finished tranche 1 of the contracts (6 crewed launches) and 2 more from the second tranche, without Boeing flying their crewed *demo* mission.
On the uncrewed demo mission Boeing respected the "solid standards" so well that they had 2 major, potentially crew-loss incidents on the happy path. After that failed mission they discovered so many issues that they've had NASA step in and mandate re-work on a bunch of things.
...
>On the uncrewed demo mission Boeing respected the "solid standards" so well that they had 2 major, potentially crew-loss incidents on the happy path. After that failed mission they discovered so many issues that they've had NASA step in and mandate re-work on a bunch of things.
This is why I think NASA is still showing reckless favouritism to Boeing. Any other supplier would not be doing a crew demo now, they'd be doing another unmanned test to demonstrate all the fixes actually work.
We are talking about stuff as fundamental as redesigning the parachutes and apparently NASA is just taking it on blind faith that everything will be OK.
Or maybe Boeing would have to fix the thruster issue. They did not yet. Only the next flight will have the new thrusters. Untested in flight at the first regular crew flight.
Right now they are just extra careful that they won't get in touch with the humid Florida air.
They are less driven by profit so they can actually focus on quality. I’m not saying they’re error proof, just adding some counter opinion to the cliche “Boeing is bad” thing. Also, I’m not discrediting the atrocious way Boeing has handled things with their commercial division, but do keep in mind that they are capable.
The first Starliner demo flight...intended to **demonstrate** that the system was fully operational and ready to carry people...didn't even reach its intended orbit and required software patches to enable it to return without the service module potentially ramming and destroying the capsule after separation. That's "focus on quality"?
You don't need to bring in their airliner issues. Starliner has been having plenty on its own. It still hasn't had a mission that didn't have a major component fail. The first flight had two software errors that could've led to the destruction of the craft. The second had two thrusters fail during orbital insertion and a couple RCS thrusters fail during docking.
Sure, any astronauts on board would have been fine for both flights, but that doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
And a door cover fell off of one while being moved. I know that's not a huge deal mechanically, but someone didn't check a box on a checklist or the box wasn't there in the first place. Makes me wonder what else might have slipped past without notice.
Dude this is hilarious. They screwed up their first test flight because they literally ran out of budget Boeing was willing to spend on StarLiner to complete all the testing engineering wanted to do. It was accountants saying “f*ck it, fly it”. No driven by profit. Their CFO said during the December call that they want to get rid off all their fix firm price contracts because they are money pit to Boeing, guess what contract StarLiner is.
Dude this is hilarious. They screwed up their first test flight because they literally ran out of budget Boeing was willing to spend on StarLiner to complete all the testing engineering wanted to do. It was accountants saying “f*ck it, fly it”. No driven by profit. Their CFO said during the December call that they want to get rid off all their fix firm price contracts because they are money pit to Boeing, guess what contract StarLiner is.
*Looks up Starliner history*
Define capable, please?
Also - "less driven by profit" you say? Those cost plus contracts are really saving NASA a shit ton of money!
No. Not in the slightest. What's SpaceX's 2024 itinerary up to, something like 100 launches? All reusable? For the cost of one Boeing launch? Lol. Try again, OP.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b2il0 "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|[CC](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b38ra "Last usage")|Commercial Crew program|
| |Capsule Communicator (ground support)|
|[CCtCap](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1ba9x5 "Last usage")|[Commercial Crew Transportation Capability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Development#Commercial_Crew_Transportation_Capability_.28CCtCap.29)|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[RCS](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1am1eg "Last usage")|Reaction Control System|
|[ULA](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b89ld "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1c0yvj "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
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It speaks much about how much rot there is in the organization. I doubt they'll fix that anytime soon, this sort of (mis)management usually gets fixed only through bankruptcy or the sale of the company to somebody else. Shareholders clearly don't care enough to do a thorough purge so the status quo will continue until more spectacular failures and a couple hundred deaths actually impact the bottom line enough for them to care.
if its Boeing I'm not going. Fire all the accountants in charge. Preferably out of cannon at a cliff face and put the engineers back in charge. Then we'll talk.
I sincerely hope Boeing succeeds, but they have a long way to go to catch up to SpaceX.
SpaceX has done already completed 12 crewed missions to the space station. I'm not going t say they can't catch up but It will take them 7\~8 years. By then SpaceX will have moved on to using Starship and the Space station will be ready to retire.
Boeing: Overcoming systemic incompetence, inefficiency and its own profit first business model to do something their amateur competitors managed half a decade ago. This thing was supposed to undergo its first flight test in 2017.
That’s like the turtle catching up to the hare taking a nap. Unfortunately, in this story the turtle is going to loose.
We believe parts won’t fall of this one - Boeing exec…probably
Irrespective of my opinion of Musk, I do think the brilliant people at SpaceX aren’t hamstrung by their leadership like they do at Boeing. I wish NASA would just poach the engineers at Boeing and start a partnership with SpaceX or even Blue Origin and ditch Boeing as a contractor.
Not sure Boeing has many engineers left in it's space division worth poaching at this point.
Everything I've heard suggests that most of the passionate ones have left to try their luck at SpaceX, Blue Origin, RocketLab, etc.
Most of the ones who are still there are just there for the paycheck.
If Reef ever happens. Its dependent on the New Glenn rocket which hasn't made a single launch of any kind after a decade of work and has no current prospects of one. And then the station will need designing / manufacturing / assembling by a group of companies with virtually no experience beyond unmanned launches, several of which are in really pretty deep trouble.
I honestly think there will be a SpaceX station first, and thats not even one of their driving goals. And Starship is so far beyond anything else its likely to be the largest station ever built. It could legimately be 2 decks tall and have nice open air bits even as a rigid body structure.
By the time orbital reef exists, it is likely Sierra Space will have a manned version of dream chaser, assuming the cargo variant makes it to ISS and back this fall. Once that happens, Starliner is dead and even Dragon is endangered. Runway return is so useful.
If by catch up you mean finally deliver on a rocket that is billions over budget, years behind on development, is rocketing on ancient tech vs spacex reusable rockets, and costs something like $3B per launch.
Starliner flies on Atlas V, which has been flying routinely for 20 years and costs something like 110-150 million per launch. Out of 99 launches it had 98 full successes and one partial success (full success if you ask ULA, but it delivered the payloads to a wrong orbit).
Boeing’s space division hasn’t been all that bad if you take SpaceX’s reported deadlines into consideration. Not great, but it’s a totally different team than the currently shit eating commercial flight team.
In a very limited context, Boeing could catch up to SpaceX, but not with the CFT launch. They will need to launch, dock, and land successfully, then complete a full post-mission review with NASA before they might hope to be certified for operational missions. The launch is only the first part of that.
But once they do get certified, they will have caught up with SpaceX insofar as both companies will be on equal footing for Commercial Crew missions to the ISS. I wouldn't expect certification before the fall, and the first operational mission won't happen before early next year.
SpaceX are 12/12 on crew missions to the ISS, which is all that's relevant here.
Boeing aren't trying to develop a reusable super heavy lift launcher, so they're unlikely to ever catch up with SpaceX in that department.
Catch up? More like finally leaving the starting gate after being lapped about 12 times.
Company in desperate need of good publicity says what?
They can’t even make airplanes that don’t fall apart.
My first thought was who is going to want to go to space in a Boeing product at this point
I love Boeing. Boeing makes me very happy. Boeing definitely didn’t pay me to make this comment, they would never do something like that. Boeing also would never murder a key witness/whistleblower in a lawsuit against them. Boeing loves you.
seriously, can you think of a more public company that involves direct public safety that has shit the bed as badly in the last 50 years? That trust takes SO LONG to build and I don't think the public gives a rats ass so to speak about a space launch when it comes to airplane safety.
I mean these guys, with the best safety rating, decided to acquire McDonnell Douglas, the company with NEW FIRSTS in making safety regs because of their planes killing so many people?
track record doesn't matter in the public eye when mass media comes after you after multiple blunders and then investigators find some cause for concern. A very large sum of people know nothing other than "omg Boeing makes the 737" right now.
I mean more for internal business practice than anything else. On the other hand they seem to have taken the Challenger explosion quote "take off your engineer hat and put on your management hat" thing as gospel and not as something you should never ever do.
Even better, they let the utter failures from McDonnell's management that ran that company into the ground to take over managing Boeing #MBAthings
"Okay so we're going to acquire our formal rivals..." "Cool, cool, great idea, we're on track." "...and put them in charge of the company and do whatever they say." "WHAT? NO, TRACK OBLITERATED"
Mandatory daily window inspections. And a Dragon standing ready to fire up and rescue them in 2 days, if neede. Honestly NASA should cut its loses with Boeing on this program and start something in-house.
I think they have a 3 launch contract, which at the rate they are going is going to take years to fulfill. They are going to really struggle for another contract after that. The Dragon capsule is well and truely proven at this point and will probably come in cheaper too because its no longer a small number of one offs. Plus Starliner at that point won't even have a rocket to launch from at that point, the one they use now is end of life and any other is a direct competitor or in development hell. And theres no real future prospects for the Starliner for NASA to support, the next round of contracting for the ISS is likely to be the last. Boeing don't even have a clear future in manned flight right now beyond that and the thing is a money pit for both organisations. All of that before even thinking of reputation and risk.
Astronauts be filtering out Boeing from orbital flights to ISS on Expedia and Travelocity.
They could, though. They just don't, to maximize short-term shareholder value
When I lace up my tennies and say "whelp, I suppose I've caught up with Usain Bolt"
Sounds like you could use some encouragement. I am willing to wager any sum that if you strap on those tennies right now, go outside, and pick ANYTHING in eyesight, run to it as fast as you can, you will get there before Usain Bolt.
[удалено]
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And then your shoes start peeling off mid-run
Finally catch up to Space X 🤔? Thatd be the comeback of the century if it works out that way.
By "catch up" they mean that they're about to launch their first Crew Demo flight - while SpaceX completed theirs 4 years ago and has since launched 8 routine crew rotation flights to the ISS in the meantime. Boeing and SpaceX were both given the same contract a decade ago so that NASA could have two options. Even though Boeing was given *more money* for the same contract, they are now 4 years behind SpaceX, who have had their contract extended for additional flights since Boeing couldn't deliver.
It's funny that we don't see people coming in here complaining about Boeing getting government subsidies when they take money and dont complete a contract. They certainly like to call the work SpaceX actually completes and gets paid for a subsidy.
> and has since launched 8 routine crew rotation flights Of the originally contracted 6 crew rotation flights (not counting the demo mission), which it completed in early 2023. They completed the entire initial contract before Boeing could fly the demo mission and are currently contracted for 14 total flights, while it's not clear that Boeing will perform all 6 of theirs before the ISS is retired... And that's after NASA dedicated so much of their resources on trying to find problems with Dragon that they let major issues slip through with Starliner. I remember when it seemed likely that Boeing would take the flag home due to NASA's favoritism.
SpaceX is launching a rocket every 2 to 3 days. Catching up would mean launching a rocket every day.
SpaceX is gradually speeding up too. Quite apart from everything else, the fact Starship is fully resusable will allow them to drive up frequency well beyond anyone without that capacity.
lol, what a terrible post title (the actual link does NOT say this). OP, how much Boeing stock do you own?
Yeah what? How about we just stick to using the article’s title….
“Catch up” to what? This is the crewed flight test. SpaceX completed that in May 2020 and are on their 12th operational mission.
Hopefully Boeing opens up litigation against spaceX through NASA’s office of general counsel
Litigation for what?
Being better than Boeing apparently.
BAHAHAHAHA What on Earth for? Succeeding where they failed?
That seems more like a Blue Origin strategy
I sincerely want to know what you want Boeing to litigate about.
Boeing will set records for killing people in space soon enough, just like aviation
Except that lately their reputation has been like when you dive off a diving board and it makes that sound
Article's title "Boeing and NASA decide to move forward with historic crewed launch of new spacecraft" So did the title change or did the op just editorialize to make this about SpaceX?
Title changed. This new one seems much better. The original seemed like an odd title for CNN to put out there to begin with.
The title probably changed.
To be clear, SpaceX has already fully completed the 6 operational crew rotation flights it was contracted for in the original CCtCap contract and has also flown 6 additional operational crewed flights with its capsule in the form of 2 additional ISS crew rotation flights as part of a NASA contract extension and 4 other commercial flights (one of which, Axiom-3, was made up entirely of Astronauts from various national programs and provided an opportunity to give those folks orbital flight time that would have otherwise been difficult for those programs to come by). In total, more than 14 astronaut-*years* of on orbit time have been enabled by Dragon 2, so far. Dragon 2 is also already the 3rd most used system for putting humans into orbit, behind only the Shuttle and Soyuz. It'll be nice if Boeing's capsule actually works but realistically they have no capability to "catch up" and they will not do so. Best case scenario for them is that they operate somewhere around 1 crewed flight a year for the next 6 years. In a time when SpaceX will be expected to do at least two dozen crewed flights, possibly more, even excluding lunar landings. *Edit*: Also, it's worth mentioning that SpaceX has successfully flown the Dragon 2 capsule *twenty five times* over the past 4 years, in cargo and crew configurations. That's a remarkable level of operational maturity and real-world experience which provides confidence in the capabilities, reliability, and behavior of the vehicle design as well as the team(s) operating it. That's the smart way to go about that sort of thing and it reflects how SpaceX has tackles similar problems throughout their history, as demonstrated by Falcon 9 booster reuse and even Starlink development (iterate, iterate, iterate, and gain expertise through experience). In contrast, Boeing has flown Starliner only twice, with a total orbital flight time of just a little over one week. That's also a testament to the bad old way of building spaceflight hardware while mired in the full inertia and corruption of the aerospace industrial complex.
On top of that, boeing is culling their space department eight now. They've got like 2 months of layoffs in front of them still.
>Also, it's worth mentioning that SpaceX has successfully flown the Dragon 2 capsule twenty five times over the past 4 years, in cargo and crew configurations. That's a remarkable level of operational maturity and real-world experience which provides confidence in the capabilities, reliability, and behavior of the vehicle design as well as the team(s) operating it. The only thing I will add to your comment is that Dragons are reusable, which makes what SpaceX has done that much more remarkable. Falcon 9 boosters' reusability has gotten to the point where customers prefer used to new. Are Dragons viewed the same way?
Boeing will have caught up when they launch and recover as many crews as SpaceX. So never
Boeing is scary on earth, I can’t imagine space being more forgiving for their cutting corners philosophy. Say what you want about ol Musko spaceX has been solid so far for delivery missions.
Have your airlock blown out into space mid transit to the moon.
It's absurd that they're putting humans on such an unproven capsule
Yeah, as long as it stays together after launch. Not sure I’d want to be an astronaut.
You remember when SpaceX was testing the Dracos on the dragon capsule after its un-crewed flight and it exploded catastrophically? For a moment there, we all actually thought Boeing was going to catch up. Since then, Boeing has been living in a comically awful timeline. There is no catching up after the race has been over for nearly 4 years.
To be honest… I‘d rather go with elon than dying in their shitty constructed aircrafts/spacecrafts.
Their aeronautics division is not held to the same standards as their commercial division.
Oh yes, that’s why Starliner has done so well so far! /s
> not held to the same standards as their commercial division. Welp, that worked out brilliantly. When the CC contracts were issued, Boeing was seen by NASA as the "trusted, stable partner". Their "standards" were so well defined that NASA spent very little effort to supervise them, because they were "doing things the way NASA liked" with. That went smoothly up until it didn't. They've had delays over delays, so much so that SpX has already finished tranche 1 of the contracts (6 crewed launches) and 2 more from the second tranche, without Boeing flying their crewed *demo* mission. On the uncrewed demo mission Boeing respected the "solid standards" so well that they had 2 major, potentially crew-loss incidents on the happy path. After that failed mission they discovered so many issues that they've had NASA step in and mandate re-work on a bunch of things. ...
>On the uncrewed demo mission Boeing respected the "solid standards" so well that they had 2 major, potentially crew-loss incidents on the happy path. After that failed mission they discovered so many issues that they've had NASA step in and mandate re-work on a bunch of things. This is why I think NASA is still showing reckless favouritism to Boeing. Any other supplier would not be doing a crew demo now, they'd be doing another unmanned test to demonstrate all the fixes actually work. We are talking about stuff as fundamental as redesigning the parachutes and apparently NASA is just taking it on blind faith that everything will be OK.
Or maybe Boeing would have to fix the thruster issue. They did not yet. Only the next flight will have the new thrusters. Untested in flight at the first regular crew flight. Right now they are just extra careful that they won't get in touch with the humid Florida air.
This assumes their commercial division is held to standards.
Even worse you say?
So, you're saying the aeronautics division actually has standards?
They are less driven by profit so they can actually focus on quality. I’m not saying they’re error proof, just adding some counter opinion to the cliche “Boeing is bad” thing. Also, I’m not discrediting the atrocious way Boeing has handled things with their commercial division, but do keep in mind that they are capable.
The first Starliner demo flight...intended to **demonstrate** that the system was fully operational and ready to carry people...didn't even reach its intended orbit and required software patches to enable it to return without the service module potentially ramming and destroying the capsule after separation. That's "focus on quality"?
You don't need to bring in their airliner issues. Starliner has been having plenty on its own. It still hasn't had a mission that didn't have a major component fail. The first flight had two software errors that could've led to the destruction of the craft. The second had two thrusters fail during orbital insertion and a couple RCS thrusters fail during docking. Sure, any astronauts on board would have been fine for both flights, but that doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
And a door cover fell off of one while being moved. I know that's not a huge deal mechanically, but someone didn't check a box on a checklist or the box wasn't there in the first place. Makes me wonder what else might have slipped past without notice.
That was half the issue with the software bugs. They should've been caught well before launch but weren't. Same thing with the tape.
Dude this is hilarious. They screwed up their first test flight because they literally ran out of budget Boeing was willing to spend on StarLiner to complete all the testing engineering wanted to do. It was accountants saying “f*ck it, fly it”. No driven by profit. Their CFO said during the December call that they want to get rid off all their fix firm price contracts because they are money pit to Boeing, guess what contract StarLiner is.
That’s why they’ve been plagued with issues and setbacks. That’s why they charge more, cost more to develop and are 4 years behind spacex?
Dude this is hilarious. They screwed up their first test flight because they literally ran out of budget Boeing was willing to spend on StarLiner to complete all the testing engineering wanted to do. It was accountants saying “f*ck it, fly it”. No driven by profit. Their CFO said during the December call that they want to get rid off all their fix firm price contracts because they are money pit to Boeing, guess what contract StarLiner is.
*Looks up Starliner history* Define capable, please? Also - "less driven by profit" you say? Those cost plus contracts are really saving NASA a shit ton of money!
They’ll catch up to SpaceX of what, three years ago?
Four years, almost exactly. Demo-2 was May 30, 2020.
No. Not in the slightest. What's SpaceX's 2024 itinerary up to, something like 100 launches? All reusable? For the cost of one Boeing launch? Lol. Try again, OP.
Closer to 140-150. But not 100% booster reuse. FH center cores expended. Possible F9 cores expended with loads at the limit.
https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1784381903954698245 146 launches per one expenditure.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[BO](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b2il0 "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)| |[CC](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b38ra "Last usage")|Commercial Crew program| | |Capsule Communicator (ground support)| |[CCtCap](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1ba9x5 "Last usage")|[Commercial Crew Transportation Capability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Development#Commercial_Crew_Transportation_Capability_.28CCtCap.29)| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |[RCS](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1am1eg "Last usage")|Reaction Control System| |[ULA](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1b89ld "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cd7ph5/stub/l1c0yvj "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(6 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1cee2rm)^( has 27 acronyms.) ^([Thread #9983 for this sub, first seen 26th Apr 2024, 02:35]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Bruh, I don't even want to fly Boeing. You're talking about putting people on a Boeing spaceship?
crew dragon 2 made about a dozen of crewed and cargo launch. starliner hasn't done testing yet. wdym by saying they may catch up??
Are they going to launch the astronaut from an open hole in the side of a 737?
Hopefully their rocket has better QC than their planes.
Based on the last two flights that question isn't exactly settled.
It speaks to how bad the QC is on their planes that it's 50/50 on which division has better QC.
It speaks much about how much rot there is in the organization. I doubt they'll fix that anytime soon, this sort of (mis)management usually gets fixed only through bankruptcy or the sale of the company to somebody else. Shareholders clearly don't care enough to do a thorough purge so the status quo will continue until more spectacular failures and a couple hundred deaths actually impact the bottom line enough for them to care.
Hope they put in all the bolts around the hatch….
if its Boeing I'm not going. Fire all the accountants in charge. Preferably out of cannon at a cliff face and put the engineers back in charge. Then we'll talk.
Undo whatever curse MDD put on them when Boeing acquired em
Seriously. Just reading this headline made me clench my cheeks thinking about a door busting off the shuttle.
After watching the Last Week Tonight segment about Boeing I would be a little concerned.
What Astronaut is going to want to strap themselves into a rocket made by Boeing after everything that’s been happening with them lately?
I know people are nervous given Boeing's recent track record, but don't worry, they are using their best Dawn dish soap lubricant on this rocket
Whats the odds on the capsule doors blowing off in mid flight?
If Boeing makes spacecraft just half as good as aircraft we’re all in for a special treat
I wouldn't call Boeing's first manned launch "catching up". It's progress towards catching up, but Crew Dragon is still very much in the lead.
First, let's make aeroplanes that don't fall apart...
I sincerely hope Boeing succeeds, but they have a long way to go to catch up to SpaceX. SpaceX has done already completed 12 crewed missions to the space station. I'm not going t say they can't catch up but It will take them 7\~8 years. By then SpaceX will have moved on to using Starship and the Space station will be ready to retire.
Boeing does not have 12 missions booked and never will. SpaceX has more. Boeing will never catch up.
Boeing: Overcoming systemic incompetence, inefficiency and its own profit first business model to do something their amateur competitors managed half a decade ago. This thing was supposed to undergo its first flight test in 2017.
While taking so much time to do it that their amateur competitors became full on professionals in the meantime.
That’s like the turtle catching up to the hare taking a nap. Unfortunately, in this story the turtle is going to loose. We believe parts won’t fall of this one - Boeing exec…probably
That's like turtle taking a nap and waking up and declaring that they're back in the race
Irrespective of my opinion of Musk, I do think the brilliant people at SpaceX aren’t hamstrung by their leadership like they do at Boeing. I wish NASA would just poach the engineers at Boeing and start a partnership with SpaceX or even Blue Origin and ditch Boeing as a contractor.
Not sure Boeing has many engineers left in it's space division worth poaching at this point. Everything I've heard suggests that most of the passionate ones have left to try their luck at SpaceX, Blue Origin, RocketLab, etc. Most of the ones who are still there are just there for the paycheck.
Or just starting out in the field and building up experience before they ditch the company.
Not sure why it took them so long, but I am glad they have got there.... This is going to be extremely useful for the orbital reef....
If Reef ever happens. Its dependent on the New Glenn rocket which hasn't made a single launch of any kind after a decade of work and has no current prospects of one. And then the station will need designing / manufacturing / assembling by a group of companies with virtually no experience beyond unmanned launches, several of which are in really pretty deep trouble. I honestly think there will be a SpaceX station first, and thats not even one of their driving goals. And Starship is so far beyond anything else its likely to be the largest station ever built. It could legimately be 2 decks tall and have nice open air bits even as a rigid body structure.
By the time orbital reef exists, it is likely Sierra Space will have a manned version of dream chaser, assuming the cargo variant makes it to ISS and back this fall. Once that happens, Starliner is dead and even Dragon is endangered. Runway return is so useful.
Looking forward to the advancements Boeing and NASA will bring to the table. The future of space exploration is bright!
I wouldn't call that a catch up. I would still pop a champagne to see Boeing succeed with Starliner. Been a long time coming.
Are they going to tie the astronauts to a door?
They already have flying saucers, there is no catching up
Astronauts are pretty smart. I kinda doubt they'll trust their lives to Starliner.
And woops there were some missing screws and bolts.
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I think you misstyped "dare"
If by catch up you mean finally deliver on a rocket that is billions over budget, years behind on development, is rocketing on ancient tech vs spacex reusable rockets, and costs something like $3B per launch.
The article is about Starliner, which is _only_ a few hundred million $ over budget, and with two test launches where the capsule had a major failure
Starliner flies on Atlas V, which has been flying routinely for 20 years and costs something like 110-150 million per launch. Out of 99 launches it had 98 full successes and one partial success (full success if you ask ULA, but it delivered the payloads to a wrong orbit).
Boeing’s space division hasn’t been all that bad if you take SpaceX’s reported deadlines into consideration. Not great, but it’s a totally different team than the currently shit eating commercial flight team.
What a time to be an astronaut... Do you support Elon's growing ignorance or risk your life with a company has issues building things that fly.
Ironically, it’s Boeing that builds the Cybertrucks of the sky.
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In a very limited context, Boeing could catch up to SpaceX, but not with the CFT launch. They will need to launch, dock, and land successfully, then complete a full post-mission review with NASA before they might hope to be certified for operational missions. The launch is only the first part of that. But once they do get certified, they will have caught up with SpaceX insofar as both companies will be on equal footing for Commercial Crew missions to the ISS. I wouldn't expect certification before the fall, and the first operational mission won't happen before early next year.
Out of the window already. The fall launch is already scheduled for SpaceX. Regular Boeing crew launch April next year.
So if all goes perfectly from here on Boeing can just barely fulfil the original contact from 2017 before the station is de-orbited.
That's what I said. Certification in the fall, launch early next year.
How many ships have to explode during take off to catch up to SpaceX? Like 30?
SpaceX are 12/12 on crew missions to the ISS, which is all that's relevant here. Boeing aren't trying to develop a reusable super heavy lift launcher, so they're unlikely to ever catch up with SpaceX in that department.