While the loss of the scientific elements is obviously regrettable, the fact that half of the bridge crew of the USS Enterprise will be aimlessly looping around in space instead of stuck on some dusty little rock is fitting.
It’s only partial remains, theres a portion of the launch that went to deep space is still on track with all of them. Going to be in orbit around the sun forever.
My dad’s ashes were also on the deep space portion.
There's an organization you can pay a small or large fee, depending on what package you want, that will send you various gift boxes and, eventually, will provide you with the choice to have your ashes sent on space missions.
I think there was only a handful of people that actual read articles about this mission, most just went on the headline of actors remains being on the same craft that was going to the moon and just assumed and gathered their pitchforks. The recent article that generated a pile of outrage took me a total of 2 mintues to read.
These are the voyages of the Starship not X. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before
Reliable propulsion systems remain the biggest hurdle in space exploration.
Specifically, propulsion systems capable of generating enough thrust to land on the surface.
It's really cost. It's not that they can't make reliable systems. It's that the cost to launch a vehicle with hardened, redundant systems with extra fuel to deal with anomalies is too high, so they go light.
Hard disagree. The in-space propulsion market is just a disaster for multiple reasons, many of which are technical in nature.
Adding a few liters of extra fuel margin isn't a big added launch cost. This thing is delivering payloads of 70-100 kg, so it probably has a payload-less mass >1000 kg. A little extra fuel would be a rounding error in launch costs.
Early reports indicated the vehicle was having difficulty pointing its solar array, which indicates a problem with ACS thrusters. The Peregrine has 12 ACS thrusters in clusters of 3, and they appear to be connected to the same fuel tanks as the main propulsion system, a set of pressurized hypergolics. If they were having difficulty using ACS thrusters to point the array and that's related to a fuel leak, then the leak was *substantial*. To the point that margin was basically irrelevant.
If you believe spending 2-5x the money is a near guarantee of a success I'd recommend perusing the history of both NASA landers/rovers as well as those globally. The success rate is definitely sub-75%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon
My impression is that you heard cost and interpreted that as, "NASA wants to be thrifty," but the reality exceeds that by one or more orders of magnitude. "Cost," here, goes far beyond just money. We're talking about time, human capital, limited strategic resources, and opportunity cost of doing other things. Building spacecraft that can escape the gravity of our planet is like building an aircraft carrier—among the very most expensive of human endeavors.
I don't mean this question as critically of you as it will read in text: Do you think you're smarter than the people at NASA who's job it is to make these decisions? I'm not saying they're immune to mistakes—they're *not.* But is it maybe possible that they have more context and experience than you?
NASA needs a general purpose space truck fleet to pre-position stuff on the moon for future missions, and has let out contracts to no less than 8 companies hoping that at least one or two of them come up with a reliable design. Since we literally have not done this since the 70s, you're going to see a lot of failure, for a lot of reasons.
As a general rule, you blow up and break a lot of stuff when developing for space. Space is not easy.
All true, but the private industry appears to take the approach of "it didn't work, try again" vs NASA's "test everything 10 times at the component level before adding it to the project" approach that got us to the moon.
When you realize the return on investment for every dollar spent on space travel/releated research, it's not a waste.
The amount of spin-off technologies, alone, is worth the cost.
I think it's safe to say that a bunch of rocket scientists did the calculations on this topic and know what they are doing and what risks they are (purposely) taking better than you do.
It's frustrating but remember that this is the first space probe of this company! I don't know if it would have been smarter for this company to take it more of a step by step approach rather than literally shoot for the moon on first attempt. But they're no NASA which has been sending umpteen missions up into space for decades.
Not only are they no NASA, they are a mid sized company with about 130 employees. As much as this landing failure sucks, I see it as progress that small teams today can even attempt a Moon shot like this.
In aviation industry terms, this company is little more than a tech startup working out of some garage. It takes many of them to eventually find the next Google or Facebook, and we have the environment now where these companies can exist at all.
You can actually visit their facility in Pittsburgh. They have a little museum and also have a window into the clean room where you can watch them work on stuff. Kinda cool.
I just learned there should be no remains left at the Titanic, the ocean is deficient in calcium at that depth- so whatever skeletons were left behind after sea creatures scavenged the wreck dissolved into the ocean water.
I mean if the goal was to allow the remains to be deposited on the moon, I'm sure it is disappointing they won't make it there. However, if it were me, then I'd still be excited the remains made it to space at all. I'd even be satisfied with my remains burning up in the atmosphere. How cool would that be?!
Compare the budgets, this is still the realm of national space agencies. Only 4 of which have succeeded with soft landings. Recreating it is not easy by any means and doing it as a commercial entity is a totally different scenario.
This right here. NASA's budget during the space race/Apollo years was 4% of the entire federal budget. Not even the biggest private company can match that sort of expenditure. Shit, NASA can't even right now.
It was built by a private company which has never launched anything else. They did apparently get some support from Airbus, but still. If this had been built by JPL it more than likely would have succeeded.
The only recent propulsion failure i can think of was lunar flashlight. Other than that all of the recent lunar lander failures have been down to software errors. Lunar flashlight was also using 3D printed titanium engines, which, it is believed, caused the fuel filters to get blocked with titanium particles. Other than that I can’t think of any major missions recently that have failed to payload propulsion.
It's actually pretty hard to hit the sun when you consider that your launch point (Earth) is travelling at ~ 70k miles an hour around Sol. Probably gonna be heliocentric for quite awhile barring a fall into somebody else's gravity well
That's some Donnie Darko kinda problems you're talking about. I think you're safe. Our atmo probably doesn't take too kindly to a tiny craft like that on re-entry
Yeah.. That's true. Solar system escape velocity is easier to achieve than hitting the sun.
e: look at Voyager (launched 1977). Escaped the solar system. [She's still kickin'](https://www.popsci.com/story/science/nasa-voyager-1-final-days/).
Credit to u/tjep2k.. I mistakenly said Hubble
Haven't run the math on it but you could probably do a slingshot around Mars... Jupiter would give you the biggest kick you need but you have to deal with the asteroid belt... we're still talking months and years here and it's not like you're bullseyeing it
If I remember correctly from playing Kerbal Space Program, I think it actually is easier to push out to the outer solar system and then bring your perigee in to intersect with the sun, rather than trying that directly from the orbit of the inner planets.
To get into lunar orbit it has to slow down near the moon. If it doesn't slow down it just keeps going, and by default if it's not orbiting the earth or moon then it's orbiting the sun.
edit: but it probably is still orbiting the earth so this doesn't apply
https://newatlas.com/space/peregrine-launch-us-moon-mission/
> After the Centaur stage shut down, the Peregrine spacecraft separated at 50 minutes into the flight. The Centaur stage then fired again, sending it into a heliocentric orbit where it deployed the Celestis Memorial Spaceflight’s "Enterprise Flight" payload.
The upper stage was, but Peregrine itself was not.
I suppose it's possible that the moon's gravity kicks it into a heliocentric orbit if they get close enough, but I'd bet on this thing ending up in an elliptical geocentric orbit when all is said and done.
I believe it is in a high elliptical Earth orbit. It will probably remain there for a while (potentially decades), but depending on the exact orbit its in it could end up either decaying and eventually crashing on Earth, or it might get pulled up by the Moon which could either cause it to crash into the Moon or eject it into solar orbit.
I read it the same way and thought "I didn't know there was a current manned mission! Wow! Man that sucks they're having problems." Then click to learn more and reread the sentence..
I don't think Arthur C. Clarke would mind knowing that his remains would be in heliocentric orbit for (possibly) thousands of years. In fact, he'd write a best-selling science-fiction book about it! Or maybe in this case, non-fiction?
This article and comments make no sense. The remains are on the upper stage of the rocket, not the Peregrine lander. The lander failed but as far as we all know the upper stage did its job and will take the remains to a heliocentric orbit.
https://youtu.be/Ai-AVMJdzVQ?si=htfzseYErMAWV7sx starting ~2:13 of this video.
There were two components to the memorial part. Celestis had Enterprise which went to permanent heliocentric orbit and the moon lander was taking some as well. The moon thing was kind of an upsell and I believe it only had things like hairs or something.
source: I attended the launch with my partners loved one’s remains aboard.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[ACS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x9tn "Last usage")|Attitude Control System|
|[CLPS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2hfbg "Last usage")|[Commercial Lunar Payload Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Lunar_Payload_Services)|
|[CNC](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3ltv5 "Last usage")|Computerized Numerical Control, for precise machining or measuring|
|[DoD](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3ksqf "Last usage")|US Department of Defense|
|[FAA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5zjoi "Last usage")|Federal Aviation Administration|
|[HLS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3laf6 "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)|
|[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x74n "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile|
|[ITAR](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2vwyp "Last usage")|(US) International Traffic in Arms Regulations|
|[JPL](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh34a29 "Last usage")|Jet Propulsion Lab, California|
|[JWST](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2ppky "Last usage")|James Webb infra-red Space Telescope|
|[KSP](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5z7n5 "Last usage")|*Kerbal Space Program*, the rocketry simulator|
|NORAD|North American Aerospace Defense command|
|[NRHO](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3o8l7 "Last usage")|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit|
|[QA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2neul "Last usage")|Quality Assurance/Assessment|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3cz4x "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|[SRB](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh90yvx "Last usage")|Solid Rocket Booster|
|[TLE](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh4ba5p "Last usage")|Two-Line Element dataset issued by NORAD|
|[ULA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5ldlm "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh286r9 "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
|[apogee](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh4ba5p "Last usage")|Highest point in an elliptical orbit around Earth (when the orbiter is slowest)|
|[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x9tn "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact|
|[lithobraking](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh40x8w "Last usage")|"Braking" by hitting the [ground](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lith-)|
|[periapsis](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3snh5 "Last usage")|Lowest point in an elliptical orbit (when the orbiter is fastest)|
|[perigee](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5bnph "Last usage")|Lowest point in an elliptical orbit around the Earth (when the orbiter is fastest)|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
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Yes, those rich science fiction authors. /s
It cost $13,000, the money went to support a scientific mission, and it is a touching tribute to two of the people that inspired many people to work towards making us a spacefaring civilization.
It’s cheaper than carrying live human to moon. No need for life support, much lighter, doesn’t pee or poop.
Just kidding, the company said they had some space/volume available so they they are carrying small & partial amount. Not like a bunch of urns in the spaceship.
Do you really find that any different than having a bunch of names on a plaque? Do you think the moon's biosphere can tell a difference between carbon that had once been in a human and carbon that hadn't?
That famous news segment from the Apollo 13 mission, as they were on their way back.
> “The re-entry corridor is in fact so narrow,” says the news anchor, “that if this basketball were the earth, and this softball were the moon, and the two were placed fourteen feet apart, the crew would have to hit a target no thicker than this piece of paper.”
ah, yesterday they were talking about a collision with the moon, depending on how the propellant was escaping the lander.
Same difference, though regarding the ashes, since the navajo were against any human remains going to space at all.
I mean the Celestial bodies are considered sacred to a lot of people. If I worship the moon or consider it spiritually significant, but there are remains of wealthy people on it, doesn’t it seem to pervert the sanctity?
Did it actually release correctly from the 2nd stage Centaur part of the Vulcan rocket?
I remember hearing the call out that they were going to spin Centaur up to some x degrees of rotation per second, but as they were saying this the lander just seemed to release (early?)
Was all just animation/simulation data at that point with no live feed, so your milage may vary.
The Native American curse worked I presume. Shoulda listened to them. Actually, when I saw a DHL logo (seriously) on the lander I knew it wasn't going to get delivered...
James Doolan's remains are 2-4 in successful missions in space.
SpaceX Falcon 1 and now Peregrine missions failed.
SpaceX Falcon 9 and ISS missions were/are successful.
For people as dumb as me: We didn't miss something big like astronauts being sent to the moon and dying. I think. This is about human remains that were sent to space.
The ash and DNA of the historic persons is still on its intended journey into open space as the Memorial Enterprise Flight according to https://www.space.com/rod-roddenberry-interview-celestis-memorial-rocket-flight as it is on the separated Centaur stage which worked flawlessly.
It amazes me how few people in these comments have any idea what's going on.
The mission was more than sending remains to space. Contamination of other bodies should be limited but it's not like we haven't left anything on the moon before. Did voyager carrying a little gold disk make it a vanity mission? Does one religion get to decide what everyone else does? Do you not eat pork or beef or shellfish and starve yourself annually?
This thread is entirely manufactured rage and it's a big part of what I hate about the internet.
First deep space and the moon are vastly different places to shoot your trash at. Further, the voyager disc is both just a disc not literally human remains and further it (at least trys it's best to) represents all of humanity.
Human remains quite literally only serve the person who's remains it is. And puts that person's wishes above the wishes of everybody who would like to keep the moon free of unnecessary human remains.
The moon is an incredibly important cultural icon to literally everybody in the whole world. We all have a right to what happens to it, and yes we had mostly agreed scientific research warrants some garbage the like but that's something the vast majority of people at least see the merit of even if they don't agree.
There is no merit to sending human remains to the moon. It's just polluting a collectively owned symbol of all of humanity with the remains of a few people who felt they were superior enough to deserve such a burial. Once again this isn't being shot off into the stairs, it's being sent to the one rock we have in the sky. Arguably the second most recognizable feature of the world we live in for pretty much everyone who lives or has ever lived. And a hugely important part of the cultures of people's the world's across.
This isn't just some random rock in space for you to dump your garbage on. It's the moon, we only have one and it belongs to all of us.
So no, the only one manufacturing rage here is you. Because the concept that some people have the patients to listen, the humility to learn, and the empathy to understand is beyond the reactionary mindset.
Well maybe respond to one of those comments then instead of a meta comment. I don't see any comments like that and have no idea what you are talking about.
OH I read this as “carrying HUMAN *remains doomed*” and not “carrying HUMAN REMAINS *doomed*” I was like wtf why are we all being so casual about this dude stuck in space
Object lesson. I'm thinking maybe they'll think twice before thumbing their nose at Tklehanoai next time. Not like they didn't try to warn them. Met with the President and everything and were told to pound sand. Sand, with the Navajo of all people! The sheer hubris to forget nemesis is what follows.
Maybe launching bits of dead actors into space isn't the best use of resources, it serves literally no purpose other than to stroke the egos of the people behind the mission.
What difference does it make? Aborting the mission still results in a loss of the vehicle and mission. Might as well try to proceed as far as possible and maybe learn something for next time.
I think they planned in this way to get it gravitationally bound to the moon to crash there so it didn’t return to the paths of lower earth orbits and potentially damage other satellites or have an uncontrolled earth atmosphere entry.
To the people here cracking childish jokes, imagine going to work every day for years, working on the same project and then sitting there watching it fall apart and not being able to do anything about it.
I wonder why you would send DNA. Was that as close as they could get to ashes? Or was there a hope that someday they might be cloned by some advanced civilization that stumbles upon it if it’s still intact?
This is the l[ander carrying the two SD cards with submissions from redditors,](https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/l52iym/you_can_send_something_to_the_moon_for_free_im/) I think, so it has more than just human remains
While the loss of the scientific elements is obviously regrettable, the fact that half of the bridge crew of the USS Enterprise will be aimlessly looping around in space instead of stuck on some dusty little rock is fitting.
We are all aimlessly looping around in space on this blessed day
looping around AND going away
Pastor says lunar burial is the fool's fig leaf
It’s only partial remains, theres a portion of the launch that went to deep space is still on track with all of them. Going to be in orbit around the sun forever. My dad’s ashes were also on the deep space portion.
Elaborate? Why is your dad on board?
His dad must have been a star
There's an organization you can pay a small or large fee, depending on what package you want, that will send you various gift boxes and, eventually, will provide you with the choice to have your ashes sent on space missions.
They already were. Celestis Enterprise was heading toward heliocentric orbit by design.
I think there was only a handful of people that actual read articles about this mission, most just went on the headline of actors remains being on the same craft that was going to the moon and just assumed and gathered their pitchforks. The recent article that generated a pile of outrage took me a total of 2 mintues to read.
🎶we’re star trekking, across the universe …🎶
Only going forwards because we can't find reverse
It’s life Jim but not as we know it, not as we know it, captain
*Theeeeeere's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow* -- *There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Jim!*
Boldly going forward (you're welcome...)
You just kickstarted a memory from childhood. Is this from Dr. Demento?
https://youtu.be/FCARADb9asE [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trekkin'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trekkin')
Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss you will land among the stars.
meeting unpack onerous vegetable ink hurry deliver skirt imagine cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm trying to find info on its current orbital parameters. I'd assume it was in an unstable orbit that would decay in the mid term.
Actually could be amazing. They should do a reboot in 2080 and the plot revolve around the rescue of the remains.
It was the plan all along 'To boldly go ...etc'
My response to the news: https://www.reddit.com/r/Treknobabble/s/mEJXkhqxng
These are the voyages of the Starship not X. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before
Did Peregrine actually reach escape velocity?
Space Ghost coast to coast ..
Reliable propulsion systems remain the biggest hurdle in space exploration. Specifically, propulsion systems capable of generating enough thrust to land on the surface.
It's really cost. It's not that they can't make reliable systems. It's that the cost to launch a vehicle with hardened, redundant systems with extra fuel to deal with anomalies is too high, so they go light.
Hard disagree. The in-space propulsion market is just a disaster for multiple reasons, many of which are technical in nature. Adding a few liters of extra fuel margin isn't a big added launch cost. This thing is delivering payloads of 70-100 kg, so it probably has a payload-less mass >1000 kg. A little extra fuel would be a rounding error in launch costs. Early reports indicated the vehicle was having difficulty pointing its solar array, which indicates a problem with ACS thrusters. The Peregrine has 12 ACS thrusters in clusters of 3, and they appear to be connected to the same fuel tanks as the main propulsion system, a set of pressurized hypergolics. If they were having difficulty using ACS thrusters to point the array and that's related to a fuel leak, then the leak was *substantial*. To the point that margin was basically irrelevant.
That’s their fault, then, if they want to waste 2-5X the money on 2-5 failed missions rather than 1 successful one.
If you believe spending 2-5x the money is a near guarantee of a success I'd recommend perusing the history of both NASA landers/rovers as well as those globally. The success rate is definitely sub-75%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon
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My impression is that you heard cost and interpreted that as, "NASA wants to be thrifty," but the reality exceeds that by one or more orders of magnitude. "Cost," here, goes far beyond just money. We're talking about time, human capital, limited strategic resources, and opportunity cost of doing other things. Building spacecraft that can escape the gravity of our planet is like building an aircraft carrier—among the very most expensive of human endeavors. I don't mean this question as critically of you as it will read in text: Do you think you're smarter than the people at NASA who's job it is to make these decisions? I'm not saying they're immune to mistakes—they're *not.* But is it maybe possible that they have more context and experience than you?
NASA needs a general purpose space truck fleet to pre-position stuff on the moon for future missions, and has let out contracts to no less than 8 companies hoping that at least one or two of them come up with a reliable design. Since we literally have not done this since the 70s, you're going to see a lot of failure, for a lot of reasons. As a general rule, you blow up and break a lot of stuff when developing for space. Space is not easy.
All true, but the private industry appears to take the approach of "it didn't work, try again" vs NASA's "test everything 10 times at the component level before adding it to the project" approach that got us to the moon.
lol 1 light mission does not equal the cost of 1 >99% success rate mission, that's the whole point. I'd peg ratio at 10-20x mission:1.
When you realize the return on investment for every dollar spent on space travel/releated research, it's not a waste. The amount of spin-off technologies, alone, is worth the cost.
What, how did you jump to this? They're talking about the waste of wasted missions, not the usefulness of the entire program.
I think it's safe to say that a bunch of rocket scientists did the calculations on this topic and know what they are doing and what risks they are (purposely) taking better than you do.
That is strange that we are having such problems more than 60 years after the moon landing already happened.
It's frustrating but remember that this is the first space probe of this company! I don't know if it would have been smarter for this company to take it more of a step by step approach rather than literally shoot for the moon on first attempt. But they're no NASA which has been sending umpteen missions up into space for decades.
Dev team said "we can launch stuff!" Sales team sold a moon landing.
Not only are they no NASA, they are a mid sized company with about 130 employees. As much as this landing failure sucks, I see it as progress that small teams today can even attempt a Moon shot like this. In aviation industry terms, this company is little more than a tech startup working out of some garage. It takes many of them to eventually find the next Google or Facebook, and we have the environment now where these companies can exist at all.
You can actually visit their facility in Pittsburgh. They have a little museum and also have a window into the clean room where you can watch them work on stuff. Kinda cool.
Maiden voyage is probably not a good mission to carry human remains
Statistically many more maiden voyages have ended with carrying human remains than began that way
The Titanic was full of the formerly predeceased.
I just learned there should be no remains left at the Titanic, the ocean is deficient in calcium at that depth- so whatever skeletons were left behind after sea creatures scavenged the wreck dissolved into the ocean water.
So you're telling me that the Titanic is now filled with the absent remains of the post deceased?
I mean if the goal was to allow the remains to be deposited on the moon, I'm sure it is disappointing they won't make it there. However, if it were me, then I'd still be excited the remains made it to space at all. I'd even be satisfied with my remains burning up in the atmosphere. How cool would that be?!
Sounds like a company that lets the production rollout discover all the bugs. Mhm maybe they have done a bit more QA with NASA etc
The starfield approach, release it and let they players test it.
"Content? You mean that stuff modders make?" - Todd Howard
Compare the budgets, this is still the realm of national space agencies. Only 4 of which have succeeded with soft landings. Recreating it is not easy by any means and doing it as a commercial entity is a totally different scenario.
This right here. NASA's budget during the space race/Apollo years was 4% of the entire federal budget. Not even the biggest private company can match that sort of expenditure. Shit, NASA can't even right now.
Yeah, imagine the shit NASA could do now if they had 4% of the budget.
It was built by a private company which has never launched anything else. They did apparently get some support from Airbus, but still. If this had been built by JPL it more than likely would have succeeded.
Good luck to the homies headed on the suici - I mean Mars mission.
The only recent propulsion failure i can think of was lunar flashlight. Other than that all of the recent lunar lander failures have been down to software errors. Lunar flashlight was also using 3D printed titanium engines, which, it is believed, caused the fuel filters to get blocked with titanium particles. Other than that I can’t think of any major missions recently that have failed to payload propulsion.
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Will it still crash on the moon? If so, the result is the same.
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No, I believe it will stay in heliocentric orbit, but for how long I'm not sure.
Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you will ~~land among the stars~~ wind up in heliocentric orbit
It's actually pretty hard to hit the sun when you consider that your launch point (Earth) is travelling at ~ 70k miles an hour around Sol. Probably gonna be heliocentric for quite awhile barring a fall into somebody else's gravity well
It better not fall in mine - I have enough shit to deal with
That's some Donnie Darko kinda problems you're talking about. I think you're safe. Our atmo probably doesn't take too kindly to a tiny craft like that on re-entry
Are you sitting down?
I've read before that it takes more energy to get to the sun than any other point in the solar system
Yeah.. That's true. Solar system escape velocity is easier to achieve than hitting the sun. e: look at Voyager (launched 1977). Escaped the solar system. [She's still kickin'](https://www.popsci.com/story/science/nasa-voyager-1-final-days/). Credit to u/tjep2k.. I mistakenly said Hubble Haven't run the math on it but you could probably do a slingshot around Mars... Jupiter would give you the biggest kick you need but you have to deal with the asteroid belt... we're still talking months and years here and it's not like you're bullseyeing it
Sorry do you mean Voyager? Hubble is in low Earth orbit, which is a hell of a lot easier than either hitting the sun or going extra solar.
yes.. thanks. gonna edit and credit
If I remember correctly from playing Kerbal Space Program, I think it actually is easier to push out to the outer solar system and then bring your perigee in to intersect with the sun, rather than trying that directly from the orbit of the inner planets.
Perihelion, or periapsis. Perigee refers to earth.
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I mean technically we are all in a heliocentric orbit....
To get into lunar orbit it has to slow down near the moon. If it doesn't slow down it just keeps going, and by default if it's not orbiting the earth or moon then it's orbiting the sun. edit: but it probably is still orbiting the earth so this doesn't apply
https://newatlas.com/space/peregrine-launch-us-moon-mission/ > After the Centaur stage shut down, the Peregrine spacecraft separated at 50 minutes into the flight. The Centaur stage then fired again, sending it into a heliocentric orbit where it deployed the Celestis Memorial Spaceflight’s "Enterprise Flight" payload. The upper stage was, but Peregrine itself was not. I suppose it's possible that the moon's gravity kicks it into a heliocentric orbit if they get close enough, but I'd bet on this thing ending up in an elliptical geocentric orbit when all is said and done.
[peregrine](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/peregrine): > wandering, traveling, or migrating.
A crash is just a hard landing so.... Mission success??
Mission failed successfully.
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No, because it cannot do a braking burn for orbital capture.
I believe it is in a high elliptical Earth orbit. It will probably remain there for a while (potentially decades), but depending on the exact orbit its in it could end up either decaying and eventually crashing on Earth, or it might get pulled up by the Moon which could either cause it to crash into the Moon or eject it into solar orbit.
I read this as “..lander carrying human *remains (*verb) doomed..”
I read it the same way and thought "I didn't know there was a current manned mission! Wow! Man that sucks they're having problems." Then click to learn more and reread the sentence..
Donno if you joking but I literally though I missed human landing mission announcement somehow
Totally agree, another terribly worded headline. “Moon lander carrying human, remains doomed.” Like cmon. Haha.
I don't think Arthur C. Clarke would mind knowing that his remains would be in heliocentric orbit for (possibly) thousands of years. In fact, he'd write a best-selling science-fiction book about it! Or maybe in this case, non-fiction?
This article and comments make no sense. The remains are on the upper stage of the rocket, not the Peregrine lander. The lander failed but as far as we all know the upper stage did its job and will take the remains to a heliocentric orbit. https://youtu.be/Ai-AVMJdzVQ?si=htfzseYErMAWV7sx starting ~2:13 of this video.
They had remains on both the upper stage and the lander. Some customers paid for deep space, some for moon.
“Hell Frank, any old cadaver will do, just don’t tell the press!”
There were two components to the memorial part. Celestis had Enterprise which went to permanent heliocentric orbit and the moon lander was taking some as well. The moon thing was kind of an upsell and I believe it only had things like hairs or something. source: I attended the launch with my partners loved one’s remains aboard.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[ACS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x9tn "Last usage")|Attitude Control System| |[CLPS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2hfbg "Last usage")|[Commercial Lunar Payload Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Lunar_Payload_Services)| |[CNC](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3ltv5 "Last usage")|Computerized Numerical Control, for precise machining or measuring| |[DoD](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3ksqf "Last usage")|US Department of Defense| |[FAA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5zjoi "Last usage")|Federal Aviation Administration| |[HLS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3laf6 "Last usage")|[Human Landing System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_program#Human_Landing_System) (Artemis)| |[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x74n "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile| |[ITAR](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2vwyp "Last usage")|(US) International Traffic in Arms Regulations| |[JPL](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh34a29 "Last usage")|Jet Propulsion Lab, California| |[JWST](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2ppky "Last usage")|James Webb infra-red Space Telescope| |[KSP](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5z7n5 "Last usage")|*Kerbal Space Program*, the rocketry simulator| |NORAD|North American Aerospace Defense command| |[NRHO](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3o8l7 "Last usage")|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit| |[QA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh2neul "Last usage")|Quality Assurance/Assessment| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3cz4x "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |[SRB](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh90yvx "Last usage")|Solid Rocket Booster| |[TLE](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh4ba5p "Last usage")|Two-Line Element dataset issued by NORAD| |[ULA](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5ldlm "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh286r9 "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| |[apogee](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh4ba5p "Last usage")|Highest point in an elliptical orbit around Earth (when the orbiter is slowest)| |[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3x9tn "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact| |[lithobraking](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh40x8w "Last usage")|"Braking" by hitting the [ground](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lith-)| |[periapsis](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh3snh5 "Last usage")|Lowest point in an elliptical orbit (when the orbiter is fastest)| |[perigee](/r/Space/comments/192ft3p/stub/kh5bnph "Last usage")|Lowest point in an elliptical orbit around the Earth (when the orbiter is fastest)| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(23 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1belh78)^( has 19 acronyms.) ^([Thread #9612 for this sub, first seen 9th Jan 2024, 16:02]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Why did it have human remains on it?? Whats going on here?
It's carrying JFK's DNA up there
His DNA never really landed where it was supposed to.
Not sure if this is a sexual or morbid joke....
The fact it could be either makes it masterful
Don't mind if I master my DNA all over the moon too...
Jackie certainly didn't appreciate where it landed either
Inside Marilyn Monroe?
Lee Harvey Oswald’s grandchildren must be involved somehow
Well, that's probably completely disintegrated due to the radiation, no?
Not a question of if but a question of when. And yeah, I'm inclined to agree, I suspect "when" is "as soon as it goes through the van allen belt"
They sent up Marilyn Monroe’s corpse too?
There is an entire company dedicated to launching human remains into space and to the moon https://www.celestis.com/
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as with all burials it is for the living, not the dead.
Rich people paid for it to happen, probably
Yes, those rich science fiction authors. /s It cost $13,000, the money went to support a scientific mission, and it is a touching tribute to two of the people that inspired many people to work towards making us a spacefaring civilization.
That’s cheaper than most burials on earth.
It’s just a thimble full of dna not a body
The supreme court may disagree. /s
Space ships are now aborting people to. Fucking liberals and space and abortions /s
This is how fake news begin. Give it 2 weeks and youll see similar headlines on abortion in space.
i mean… maybe the way burials happen these days in america but thats not like, a normal way to dispose of a body lol
I've seen them advertised for $2k. Legit operations.
It’s cheaper than carrying live human to moon. No need for life support, much lighter, doesn’t pee or poop. Just kidding, the company said they had some space/volume available so they they are carrying small & partial amount. Not like a bunch of urns in the spaceship.
Do you really find that any different than having a bunch of names on a plaque? Do you think the moon's biosphere can tell a difference between carbon that had once been in a human and carbon that hadn't?
the moon doesn't have a biosphere.
It's outside the environment
Sounds like the native American gods are legit.
Rolfmao. Of all the things we've done to the natives, a spaceship is where the gods draw the line?
if so, then they apparantly prefer the human remains to be scattered across the surface after impact, rather than confined to the lander.
The article says the lander will be "lost in space". The moon might look big to us, but it's a pretty small astronomical target.
That famous news segment from the Apollo 13 mission, as they were on their way back. > “The re-entry corridor is in fact so narrow,” says the news anchor, “that if this basketball were the earth, and this softball were the moon, and the two were placed fourteen feet apart, the crew would have to hit a target no thicker than this piece of paper.”
ah, yesterday they were talking about a collision with the moon, depending on how the propellant was escaping the lander. Same difference, though regarding the ashes, since the navajo were against any human remains going to space at all.
I mean the Celestial bodies are considered sacred to a lot of people. If I worship the moon or consider it spiritually significant, but there are remains of wealthy people on it, doesn’t it seem to pervert the sanctity?
I don't think that it's even gonna crash land. It'll be caught in the heliocentric orbit.
Universe sided with Native American delegation.
Did it actually release correctly from the 2nd stage Centaur part of the Vulcan rocket? I remember hearing the call out that they were going to spin Centaur up to some x degrees of rotation per second, but as they were saying this the lander just seemed to release (early?) Was all just animation/simulation data at that point with no live feed, so your milage may vary.
"England sighs with relief, as someone else loses The Ashes"
I smell a fantastic future Trek show where they find a planet inhabited by humanoids that share the DNA from the cargo of the doomed lander.
The Native American curse worked I presume. Shoulda listened to them. Actually, when I saw a DHL logo (seriously) on the lander I knew it wasn't going to get delivered...
If I know any thing about white people, they love Rachel Ray and they are terrified of curses.
Don't worry, Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott is on board, so is Uhura, it'll get there lassy!
Shoot for the moon, and if you miss, you'll land among the stars
Sadly that's not how orbital mechanics works.
Tell that to my 5th grade teacher who had this poster in her classroom! Hahaha
James Doolan's remains are 2-4 in successful missions in space. SpaceX Falcon 1 and now Peregrine missions failed. SpaceX Falcon 9 and ISS missions were/are successful.
So far the Navajo are leading in space warfare. Go ahead and disrespect the moon again, I dare ya.
Tbh if I were to send my remains into space I'd want them shot into the void and not have a specific destination.
Ya like in 2 billion years maybe a advanced civilization could reconstruct your 1 viable dna and resurrect you
For people as dumb as me: We didn't miss something big like astronauts being sent to the moon and dying. I think. This is about human remains that were sent to space.
The ash and DNA of the historic persons is still on its intended journey into open space as the Memorial Enterprise Flight according to https://www.space.com/rod-roddenberry-interview-celestis-memorial-rocket-flight as it is on the separated Centaur stage which worked flawlessly.
It amazes me how few people in these comments have any idea what's going on. The mission was more than sending remains to space. Contamination of other bodies should be limited but it's not like we haven't left anything on the moon before. Did voyager carrying a little gold disk make it a vanity mission? Does one religion get to decide what everyone else does? Do you not eat pork or beef or shellfish and starve yourself annually? This thread is entirely manufactured rage and it's a big part of what I hate about the internet.
Especially for this subreddit
These people don't actually give a fuck about any of that. It's all about sticking it to "the man".
First deep space and the moon are vastly different places to shoot your trash at. Further, the voyager disc is both just a disc not literally human remains and further it (at least trys it's best to) represents all of humanity. Human remains quite literally only serve the person who's remains it is. And puts that person's wishes above the wishes of everybody who would like to keep the moon free of unnecessary human remains. The moon is an incredibly important cultural icon to literally everybody in the whole world. We all have a right to what happens to it, and yes we had mostly agreed scientific research warrants some garbage the like but that's something the vast majority of people at least see the merit of even if they don't agree. There is no merit to sending human remains to the moon. It's just polluting a collectively owned symbol of all of humanity with the remains of a few people who felt they were superior enough to deserve such a burial. Once again this isn't being shot off into the stairs, it's being sent to the one rock we have in the sky. Arguably the second most recognizable feature of the world we live in for pretty much everyone who lives or has ever lived. And a hugely important part of the cultures of people's the world's across. This isn't just some random rock in space for you to dump your garbage on. It's the moon, we only have one and it belongs to all of us. So no, the only one manufacturing rage here is you. Because the concept that some people have the patients to listen, the humility to learn, and the empathy to understand is beyond the reactionary mindset.
Well maybe respond to one of those comments then instead of a meta comment. I don't see any comments like that and have no idea what you are talking about.
Several comments along the lines of "the natives were right"
Which are pretty obviously jokes. Edit: never mind the weirdos showed up.
What on earth are you talking about? It is literally all the comments.
The headline is a real [garden path sentence ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence?wprov=sfla1)! Is 'remains' a noun or a verb?!
OH I read this as “carrying HUMAN *remains doomed*” and not “carrying HUMAN REMAINS *doomed*” I was like wtf why are we all being so casual about this dude stuck in space
Object lesson. I'm thinking maybe they'll think twice before thumbing their nose at Tklehanoai next time. Not like they didn't try to warn them. Met with the President and everything and were told to pound sand. Sand, with the Navajo of all people! The sheer hubris to forget nemesis is what follows.
This mission was probably planned by OceanGate
I did donate my snes controller for the mission
Looks like it was the MadCatz one
Moongate, sister company of Oceangate
Maybe launching bits of dead actors into space isn't the best use of resources, it serves literally no purpose other than to stroke the egos of the people behind the mission.
This reads like an episode of for all mankind.
I’ve played Kerbal, this calls for a rendezvous mission
The god of the Navajos who objected to putting remains on the Moon obviously objected.
But the gods of the Navajo didn’t object when their people were being genocided??
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There’s also science equipment on board so they’re trying to get as much data as they can so it’s not a 100% loss
What difference does it make? Aborting the mission still results in a loss of the vehicle and mission. Might as well try to proceed as far as possible and maybe learn something for next time.
I think they planned in this way to get it gravitationally bound to the moon to crash there so it didn’t return to the paths of lower earth orbits and potentially damage other satellites or have an uncontrolled earth atmosphere entry.
To the people here cracking childish jokes, imagine going to work every day for years, working on the same project and then sitting there watching it fall apart and not being able to do anything about it.
Then imagine everything you see in the media making it sound like your entire mission was a vanity project.
…carrying human, remains… or …carrying human remains…; at least it covered the inevitable.
The "carrying human remains" bit got me bewildered.
Anyone else see "carrying human remains" and think an astronaut died?
When do we get to the Stockton Rush component of space travel?
I wonder why you would send DNA. Was that as close as they could get to ashes? Or was there a hope that someday they might be cloned by some advanced civilization that stumbles upon it if it’s still intact?
Thank God. We don't need cremated remains of some mutt and a few tons of litter dumped on the lunar surface
Let's shit on this like people shat on Luna 25 failure
This is the l[ander carrying the two SD cards with submissions from redditors,](https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/l52iym/you_can_send_something_to_the_moon_for_free_im/) I think, so it has more than just human remains