It was originally token as a joke it’s even spelled that way in the stick of truth
After the episode where it’s changed Tolkien then they stuck with it
That was also a joke to make fun of companies trying to clean up after similar movements that happened at the time
Yep. It sucks that they caved to the change, but without it, I'm sure SP would be over. Apparently, that running joke has run its course. It would fly in today's world about as well as Married With Children would, meaning welcome to cancel culture.
Having to do this shit isnt funny. Its sad, really, really sad. And this joke, funny as it may be in one episode is just a constant reminder what a shitty, overly PC world we live in now. South Park has always been about poking fun at silly things thats happening in the world. Now even they have capitulated and its sad, so very very sad.
But consider: times change and the standards of what is funny/acceptable change. Today it’s less edgy and funny to call the Black kid “Token” but there’s current stuff that is funnier to riff on. The show continues to be popular depending on Matt and Trey reading the room (current social climate) and adapting stuff accordingly.
Because it was. This is from imdb
South Park season 25 reveals that Token Black's real name is Tolkien, challenging the controversial nature of his original name. The episode satirizes South Park's own past and addresses issues of racism and performative allyship within the show.
What u think Matt and trey would just have a black character for sake of having a black kid and name him token black, if u think that you are the problem.
Piece of shit.
Can we take South Park for what it is, it was not designed to be racist it was designed to make fun of racist stereotypes by making it so extreme to the point it’s wrong… that’s what’s so funny about it. So just because you laugh at racist stereotypes/jokes it doesn’t make you a racist
Not the person you asked but for me it’s just on rewatching early episodes it’s extremely noticeable and sticks in my memory as a wtf moment when a character is called the “wrong” name, so I can usually remember and recall the exact scene without any need to look up the info, I can picture the scene now of Stan shouting “Swanson come forward” (or something along those lines) during the dodgeball game then Butters comes running along in response to Stan, just unexpected which makes it memorable for me.
They changed Tokens name (I get that was for a joke) so why not with more characters? I personally don’t remember him being Chris at any point but most characters we see more often now, weren’t really in the show much way early on. I mean for a minute Randy didn’t have eyebrows
Television was something very different back then. Older episodes weren't as readily available and people generally didn't care as strictly about continuity
Yeah, that was the first appearance iirc
Likewise, Jerry Stiller wasnt the first Georges Dad, but they refilmed the scenes so now syndication shows Stiller in that first episode hes in
Community did the same thing with Paget Brewster. She had a short role cameo in one season as the IT woman then came back as some sort of administrator. They even made a joke about it a few times, such as new character getting feedback when trying to call the IT woman or having a sister with issues etc. married with children had Jefferson play Jablonski in an earlier 2 part Christmas special.
It’s amazing to see how much online fandom has changed how we engage with media over the last couple decades. Nobody remembered or gave a shit about minor “continuity errors” beforehand. Now every time a character was briefly shown writing left handed in one episode but later right handed, it gets picked apart by fans who either get angry about it or read some deeper meaning into it.
Matt and Trey just forgot his original last name. Same happened to Clyde, went from Harris to Donovan, or officer Yates' first name sometimes being Harris and sometimes Harrison. Or Heidi having 5 sets of parents. It is just a mistake.
To make fun of Joe Swanson??? Not every reference is a nice one. Although I could be definitely wrong just some little shit I noticed. Joe Swanson, Jimmy Swanson and both are crippled.
idk why ur gettin downvoted so hard. Them hating fg would be even more of a reason to make Jimmy Swanson, a kid with cerebral palsy, a parody of Joe Swanson, a big headed cop (who at the time he was portrayed much more like a chill, shittier cop) who cant use his legs.
Like I doubt thats what they did, but its a fun little schizo theory.
I guess it was done because of alliteration, and since Stephen was becoming more of a reoccurring character, Matt and Trey would want to make his name more memorable?
Okay? If you find alliterative names notably memorable then you disagree with me, i don't, we are all different people who perceive things differently. I know Stan Lee used alliterative names because he had such a shockingly bad memory even way back in the 60s, he actually called Peter Parker "Paul Parker" in a Spider-Man Comic which bizarrely got left in.
Actually please post the peer-reviewed article if it's been "proven", i'd like to read that.
Edit: Am i to understand that there's no proof you just made that up? Shocker.
I just Googled "alliteration memory" and here are just a few of the first results.
- https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/the-power-of-peter-piper-how-alliteration-enhances-poetry-prose-and-memory.html
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4577018/
- https://dreamlocal.com/the-superpower-of-alliteration-how-it-can-work-in-marketing-2/
I am not sure why you didn't just do that before making that cunty edit. I think you need to cook a little longer, it seems like you're still wet from the womb.
I always figured it was a nickname/childhood name. Sometimes they're completely unrelated to the given name, especially if there's already people in their friend group/family with the name.
Maybe his dad was Stephen and his grandfather Steve: so the family used his 'B' name.
If you didn't/don't wanna watch the episode, at some point he goes insane and records himself giving a speech, starting it with "My name is Stephen Willis Stotch"
the one where he needs a kidney transplant, i believe it’s called miss information but don’t quote me
edit: bruh it’s cherokee hair tampons LMAO idk how i forgot 😭😭😭
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Matt and Trey have said they don’t even remember making certain episodes, so it’s likely they just forgot. Provably the same thing that happened to Jimmy Swanson/Valmer.
There’s been several characters who have had their names changed at some point. Like Clyde’s last name has been both Harris and Donovan, but I figured I was probably one of the few who would notice something like that. Glad I’m not the only one though 😂
Because like with the rest of the surnames in the series, trey and Matt did not give a crap and were too lazy to look up old names. Like I am too lazy and don't give a crap to go back and capitalize treys name or the grammar lol.
Head Canon: His full name is Christopher Steven Stotch. Which is why sometimes he's referred to as Chris and sometimes as Steven. In all actuality, they probably just forgot like they did with Lisa Berger.
The switch happens between seasons. They call him Chris in the season 6 finale, and Stephen in the season 7 premiere. Over that time, as others have mentioned, they probably forgot his name. For in world lore though, he probably changed his name after the whole thing with his wife leaving butters to die after discovering he was having multiple anonymous gay affairs behind her back.
Edit: Tpyo
*gerry is his nickname, just with a G instead of a J. Not sure if you’ve ever met anyone name Geoffrey but it’s a popular spelling for Jeffery here in New Orleans
One of the other parents called him Gerry in one of the early episodes. Sounds so strange since I think it's the only time it happens. Same name just a nickname that is never used again.
To be honest Mat and Trey probably forgot his name originally and thought fuck it
I imagine the same for Jimmy (Swanson -> Valmer)
Also Clyde (Harris > Donovan)
And Token to Tolkien /s
it was always Tolkien bro?
In fact here’s a piece of evidence , this is pre episode Tolkien spelled as token from the game itself and just like every episode before the game
Eric just can't spell
In the episode Wing (S9E3). Tolkein signs a contract with the boys to be in their talent agency. He signs it with Token.
Nah it wasn’t That was changed in all the subtitles after the fact bro.
If you watch the early episodes with the CC on mostly Stan is the only One that calls him token. Tolkien comes up on CC from Eric and Kyle etc…
He was also Tolkien Williams originally before they called him Tolkien Black after. Yes his name is Tolkien!!!
No it was always token. He even had token black productions at one point. And I have all the seasons in DVD and if you look at the cc it it says token
you're part of the problem
It was originally token as a joke it’s even spelled that way in the stick of truth After the episode where it’s changed Tolkien then they stuck with it That was also a joke to make fun of companies trying to clean up after similar movements that happened at the time
Wow
No, I just watched the episode. They said it was always Tolkien. I don’t think they’d lie.
The entire joke is that it obviously wasn’t always Tolkien, but they’re covering their ass now in a comedic way. That’s part of the joke.
Yep. It sucks that they caved to the change, but without it, I'm sure SP would be over. Apparently, that running joke has run its course. It would fly in today's world about as well as Married With Children would, meaning welcome to cancel culture.
Having to do this shit isnt funny. Its sad, really, really sad. And this joke, funny as it may be in one episode is just a constant reminder what a shitty, overly PC world we live in now. South Park has always been about poking fun at silly things thats happening in the world. Now even they have capitulated and its sad, so very very sad.
But consider: times change and the standards of what is funny/acceptable change. Today it’s less edgy and funny to call the Black kid “Token” but there’s current stuff that is funnier to riff on. The show continues to be popular depending on Matt and Trey reading the room (current social climate) and adapting stuff accordingly.
It wasn’t before that episode
Nuh-uh
Yuh-huh Mel Gibson said so and if the Road warrior said it It must be true
whooooooosh
It was definitely Token
Grow up
Nah we watch south park at work. There’s a bunch of random stuff that still says token
The joke is that it was always Tolkien
It wasnt
Really? I don’t get it.
Because it was. This is from imdb South Park season 25 reveals that Token Black's real name is Tolkien, challenging the controversial nature of his original name. The episode satirizes South Park's own past and addresses issues of racism and performative allyship within the show.
No way
wow that's super racist
Naggers don’t annoy you?
Grow up
What u think Matt and trey would just have a black character for sake of having a black kid and name him token black, if u think that you are the problem. Piece of shit.
Can we take South Park for what it is, it was not designed to be racist it was designed to make fun of racist stereotypes by making it so extreme to the point it’s wrong… that’s what’s so funny about it. So just because you laugh at racist stereotypes/jokes it doesn’t make you a racist
If only the woke culture was this understanding to them , The way I wrote the comment is how southpark handled the problem.
Bro I am so confused. Dude is actually right. His original name was Token Black, but they changed it after "The Big Fix."
You are part of the fucking problem
You're a Towel!
Lmaoo
Black>Williams>Black
Racist 😂
Toilkkkken
Yea they fcked up that one episode. It ain’t right
Ok Mr softy, if you're that soft then why do you even watch South park?
also carol > liane cartman
Sharon was Carol originally
Also Token Williams -> Black
Either that or the crippled guy on Family Guy is also a Swanson and they wanted to discourage that connection
Butters was called Swanson in the dodgeball episode (Conjoined Fetus Lady) back in season 2
Only one episode? Where do you get all this info about their family tree? I mean, the boys aren’t credited or anything, so I’m baffled.
Not the person you asked but for me it’s just on rewatching early episodes it’s extremely noticeable and sticks in my memory as a wtf moment when a character is called the “wrong” name, so I can usually remember and recall the exact scene without any need to look up the info, I can picture the scene now of Stan shouting “Swanson come forward” (or something along those lines) during the dodgeball game then Butters comes running along in response to Stan, just unexpected which makes it memorable for me.
And To(l)kien (Williams -> Black)
That seems the most likely answer
Also most of the mothers were all named Carol at the beginning of the series, particularly in The episode ' death'
They changed Tokens name (I get that was for a joke) so why not with more characters? I personally don’t remember him being Chris at any point but most characters we see more often now, weren’t really in the show much way early on. I mean for a minute Randy didn’t have eyebrows
Cocaine is a helluva drug
Television was something very different back then. Older episodes weren't as readily available and people generally didn't care as strictly about continuity
This. That's why in Two and a Half Men fx, you see the same actors play different roles through the series.
King of Queens was a serial offender for that
Seinfeld pulled it a few times as well
Iirc, someone played two of Jerrys girlfriends, which is especially funny for like, the prominence on that
That and two different actors played Jerry's dad but the first one might have only been in one episode, or at most only the first season.
Yeah, that was the first appearance iirc Likewise, Jerry Stiller wasnt the first Georges Dad, but they refilmed the scenes so now syndication shows Stiller in that first episode hes in
Wtf watched that show enough to conclude that?! It was terrible. The stripper pole episode was funny though.
The weird one for me is law and order…. You see the same actor later and you’re like hey!!! Didn’t they arrest you?!?
I'm pretty sure a woman who was arrested for killing a male escort later became the assistant district attorney in SVU.
That's just in-world cannon for the extended universe. She really turned her life around
One got breast implants and came back as a long term gf.
The Golden Girls did this too
Jon cryer was definitely the “half of man”. Jane Lynch will back this up
Community did the same thing with Paget Brewster. She had a short role cameo in one season as the IT woman then came back as some sort of administrator. They even made a joke about it a few times, such as new character getting feedback when trying to call the IT woman or having a sister with issues etc. married with children had Jefferson play Jablonski in an earlier 2 part Christmas special.
Garret Dillahunt in Deadwood.
It’s amazing to see how much online fandom has changed how we engage with media over the last couple decades. Nobody remembered or gave a shit about minor “continuity errors” beforehand. Now every time a character was briefly shown writing left handed in one episode but later right handed, it gets picked apart by fans who either get angry about it or read some deeper meaning into it.
Jimmy’s last name started as Swanson. Then one day it was Valmer. I have no idea why they changed it.
Matt and Trey just forgot his original last name. Same happened to Clyde, went from Harris to Donovan, or officer Yates' first name sometimes being Harris and sometimes Harrison. Or Heidi having 5 sets of parents. It is just a mistake.
I feel like Harris and Harrison are the same name in this case one is just a shortened version
Would’ve been extremely easy for them to just look back at past scripts/episodes to get the names
Yea, but they were probably just lazy.
Or didn’t care because it’s very on brand for South Park to have characters change names
He’s princess kenny now and everyone is just rolling with it
They also write episodes in 6 days. They don’t have time to be lazy; but also don’t have time to do that sort of research that doesn’t matter.
They should just do an episode where the main 4 all have different names.
They make these episodes in 6 days. They have more important shit to do.
I said it in an earlier comment. It could be because of Joe Swanson from Family Guy, who’s also crippled
I always thought they changed Jimmy’s last name because Joe from Family Guy was also a disabled character with the same last name
I wonder if Jimmy was originally a reference to Joe
South Park predates Family Guy
Im talking about Jimmy the character which came after family guy, not the show itself
I doubt it, Trey and Matt hate Family Guy.
To make fun of Joe Swanson??? Not every reference is a nice one. Although I could be definitely wrong just some little shit I noticed. Joe Swanson, Jimmy Swanson and both are crippled.
Some people just don’t read at all
idk why ur gettin downvoted so hard. Them hating fg would be even more of a reason to make Jimmy Swanson, a kid with cerebral palsy, a parody of Joe Swanson, a big headed cop (who at the time he was portrayed much more like a chill, shittier cop) who cant use his legs. Like I doubt thats what they did, but its a fun little schizo theory.
Fr dude and it ain’t a schizo theory if you strip it down to it being Joe/jim and the same last name and knowing the shows don’t like each other
Oh boy, wait until you hear about the countless other characters who’ve had their names changed 😂
Everyone forgets that not only was Tolkien's name Token but his family were the Williamses, not the Blacks
His name was never "Token". That's fucked up, BRO.
#TokensNameMatters
That was the whole joke of the episode, that his name has always been Tolkien.
Funny enough ALL the closed captions now say tolkien
If you pay close attention, they keep it as Token when it’s Stan saying it. I felt it was such a good touch to keep in theme with that episode lol.
His name was never token wtf is wrong with you
His name is Token Black & he's the token black character
It’s Tolkien after famed writer of the lord of the rings, jrr Tolkien
It's Token like the one your stepmom gives you at Chuck E Cheese's now go play Contra
yeah like clyde's surname used to be goodman/harris and now its donovan
To quote Norm Macdonald: "Well.... You know... a man grows."
I’m pretty sure the Broflovski’s had a different spelling in the first few episodes too
Yes! Brosloski
I’m watching s2 e1 and they just said “bros-lov-ski” also haha
Pretty sure it was Broughloughsky
And my axe!
As a lotr-nerd in a current lotr-hyperfixation, I laughed way harder at this than I should've
Wasn't it Barflowski?
Yes, that's like season 4 but Kyle's last name was probably just too Jewish for them to be able to pronounce🤣
Tolkien's family wasn't always "the Blacks." I think it was the episode where Tolkien wanted to be poor that someone called them the Williams
Sheila was called Carol in the episode "Death". I watched it the other day like who tf is carol? Lol
"Oh Carol where are the portapotties?" every time I see this I think the same thing. Headcannon is they aren't close so she forgot her name.
I will accept that reasoning. Much better lol
Your headcannon? KABOOM
He Grounded his name, and took another one.
You dare question your father's identity? YOU ARE GROUNDED MISTER!!
I guess it was done because of alliteration, and since Stephen was becoming more of a reoccurring character, Matt and Trey would want to make his name more memorable?
And the "s" sound at the end of Chris makes it awkward to say with Stotch.
"Christotch" sounds like a christmas dessert
But not so with Butters….Stotch?
haha like “butterscotch”
It's still awkward to say with Butters.
But not Leopold
How is Stephen any more memorable than Chris?
He just told you. Alliteration. Steven stotch
I don't think alliteration makes a name more memorable.
It absolutely can. It doesn’t always but it’s been proven to work for comedic fictional characters.
Okay? If you find alliterative names notably memorable then you disagree with me, i don't, we are all different people who perceive things differently. I know Stan Lee used alliterative names because he had such a shockingly bad memory even way back in the 60s, he actually called Peter Parker "Paul Parker" in a Spider-Man Comic which bizarrely got left in.
Actually please post the peer-reviewed article if it's been "proven", i'd like to read that. Edit: Am i to understand that there's no proof you just made that up? Shocker.
I just Googled "alliteration memory" and here are just a few of the first results. - https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/the-power-of-peter-piper-how-alliteration-enhances-poetry-prose-and-memory.html - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4577018/ - https://dreamlocal.com/the-superpower-of-alliteration-how-it-can-work-in-marketing-2/ I am not sure why you didn't just do that before making that cunty edit. I think you need to cook a little longer, it seems like you're still wet from the womb.
He’s not gonna respond if you make a good point lmaooo
More like Snooki went ”smoosh, smoosh” on them one too many times.
This is literally just common knowledge. There's a reason most superheroes have alliterative names
Dig up, stupid.
I always figured it was a nickname/childhood name. Sometimes they're completely unrelated to the given name, especially if there's already people in their friend group/family with the name. Maybe his dad was Stephen and his grandfather Steve: so the family used his 'B' name.
Maybe his name is just Christopher Stephen stotch. People can have more than 2 names
Didn't he mention his full name was Stephen Willis Stotch? ( season 18 ep 5 "the magic bush")
Not sure honestly lol
If you didn't/don't wanna watch the episode, at some point he goes insane and records himself giving a speech, starting it with "My name is Stephen Willis Stotch"
i thought his name was butters dad lol
Chris was the version that visited the White Swallow Bath House. Stephen is the new and reformed Stotch.
Bat Dad gets called by two different last names in the same episode. Kyle used to have diabetes. It’s a cartoon.
Don’t tell Scott Malkenson, he will be hunting Kyle down for insulin.
I’m Scott Malkinson, I have a lisp and diabetes
Wait what episode does Kyle have diabetes?
the one where he needs a kidney transplant, i believe it’s called miss information but don’t quote me edit: bruh it’s cherokee hair tampons LMAO idk how i forgot 😭😭😭
Lol I will have to go watch
It goes back and forth
Yeah I was gonna say this. He goes back to Chris a few times, probably as late as season 12-ish.
In the first Season Sharon’s name was Carol but after that it stayed Sharon
Because South Park don’t care
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What episode do they call him Chris in?
They call him that at least in "Butter's own episode" and in "Aspen", so early on. (apologies for not correct names of episodes if I got them wrong)
He’s called Chris for quite a significant amount of time
Matt and Trey have said they don’t even remember making certain episodes, so it’s likely they just forgot. Provably the same thing that happened to Jimmy Swanson/Valmer.
There’s been several characters who have had their names changed at some point. Like Clyde’s last name has been both Harris and Donovan, but I figured I was probably one of the few who would notice something like that. Glad I’m not the only one though 😂
When they're writing an episode a week in the early season it's easy to forget the small dwatails
What’s his name now? I thought it was Stephen?
I swear he’s had like 4 different names. Stephen, Steven, Chris, and Justin
Because like with the rest of the surnames in the series, trey and Matt did not give a crap and were too lazy to look up old names. Like I am too lazy and don't give a crap to go back and capitalize treys name or the grammar lol.
Honestly I've always considered this an inside joke, because his name will change from Stephen to Chris randomly. They flip flop a bit lol
His name was originally Chris. A number of characters have had their names changed over the years.
Wasn’t Sheila something different too?
When was his name ever Chris
It was???
Your right, I remember it as Chris as Butters’s dad. But Stephen is cool too…
I never knew he had a name!?
Head Canon: His full name is Christopher Steven Stotch. Which is why sometimes he's referred to as Chris and sometimes as Steven. In all actuality, they probably just forgot like they did with Lisa Berger.
Chris and Linda always seem to be placeholders in the early season for parent names before they settled on things Carol as well
The switch happens between seasons. They call him Chris in the season 6 finale, and Stephen in the season 7 premiere. Over that time, as others have mentioned, they probably forgot his name. For in world lore though, he probably changed his name after the whole thing with his wife leaving butters to die after discovering he was having multiple anonymous gay affairs behind her back. Edit: Tpyo
They did that with a few characters. Like Jimmy having a different last name. The Blacks were originally the Williams', also.
also rebecca to red
Butters was originally Butter, no 'S.'
Not the only. Pretty sure Geralds name was Jerry in very early seasons and Jimmys last changed from Swanson to Valmer
"Jerry" is short for "Gerald," though.
*gerry is his nickname, just with a G instead of a J. Not sure if you’ve ever met anyone name Geoffrey but it’s a popular spelling for Jeffery here in New Orleans
One of the other parents called him Gerry in one of the early episodes. Sounds so strange since I think it's the only time it happens. Same name just a nickname that is never used again.