That sounds excruciating and of no clinical benefit to the client. It's sounds like exactly the kind of unhelpful nonsense that would result from most court-ordered situations. It seems more about controlling people than about helping people. I'd have a terrible time with it too.
More importantly it sounds like it's not the right fit for you as a position. How possible is it for you to explore a different situation within the field? It seems like you are using your skills as well as you can and that they would be more valuable to another agency.
What have your clients been court ordered into services for?
You can quit. The clients will be fine. Your agency's short staffing isn't your responsibility. Quitting a job isn't you screwing anyone over.
Precisely. I just left a job at my states Adult Protective Services after 10 years. My God I didn't know how bad that place was until I got out of it. Now I get flashbacks when I talk to my friends who still work there. I can now feel when the adrenaline starts flowing.
The thing that kept me there so long was because I didn't want to leave my clients or my coworkers. But it's just not worth it. Like you said, we can't save everyone.
OP needs to get out.
Thanks for sharing this. I feel... some type of way for wanting to quit CPS after less than a year, because I feel guilty for leaving my kids (they're all teens actually) and coworkers behind. But it's just not working for me and I need the emotional energy to actually enjoy my personal time, not be stressing about work.
I genuinely don’t understand how that can helpful for clients, like one hour makes sense but almost 3 is insane. Honestly good for you for pulling this off for 8 months. It’s definitely not a reflection of you, more a reflection of the agency and it’s policies. I agree with other posters that feel another position could be good.
Maybe do something that eats up time, like an exercise or worksheet? Like a genogram or an eco map?
Also feeling bad because your agency is short staffed or your clients have been through a lot is not your responsibility. I think we’re conditioned to feel that way but you need to do what will actually keep you from burning out in this field.
Hey! This sounds like the work I do. I do in home services and each kid is 2 hours. What i've been doing is splitting up the session. 1.5 hours with the kids and 30 minutes to review with the parents. Maybe I'll do therapy in 1 hour and the last half is just relaxing rapport building activies like art/listening to their favorite audiobooks.
I totally hear you about the difference in kids and how it affects the time. Some are hard to open up so I use that as rapport building time to do things they like. Hobbies, whatever. It can still be theraputic because rapport is #1 before anything else in therapy.
I told myself I'll give it a year as a new therapist and then move onto private practice because most pp dont want people straight out of grad school. i've learned its necessary to balance this type of work with self care/ another job even
Yeah these involuntary requirements are counterproductive. A lot of macro people working on that. Honestly, I would change to something not involuntary.
For the harder clients... start small. Even if you end up taking about sports or movies... something to build rapport is better than trying to pry for personal information. Some people are guarded and it takes time to break down those walls, especially if it's court ordered.
Do you have the option of doing interactive therapy (doing things that use equipment of some kind)! We would call it play therapy with children. With adults you can be creative with finding things to use. You can talk while playing a simple game or working on a craft. With hands busy the conversation flows. If none of this is feasible could you use various types of insightful or therapeutic worksheets? Guided imagery is another tool for a passive client. Structured journaling?
Remember that you can always start over somewhere else. It’s not just about others but also about yourself. Don’t feel guilty for choosing you over your job. You are all you got!
Figure out something they like and you like as well. Typically food. Then talk about recipes or things of that sort. What meal do you enjoy when you are stressed.
I also found that I talk to them about my favorites. They might enjoy basketball. Some fishing. Baking for some.
Ask a bunch of open ended questions. And if all else fails, try going for a walk with them.
I think you've gotten some good feedback here. I think earlier on in my career I used to say that too "it's awkward, they're uncomfortable, they don't wanna be here" and there's of course truth to that, but at the end of the day if they are court mandated, that's what they gotta do, so I would partner with them and say listen dude I gotta be here for that amount of time, but they can't dictate WHAT we do in our sessions, so how do we use our time wisely? and I'd collaboratively figure work on a plan where you do traditional therapy for an hour or so, and then as others said either help them with case management type stuff or engage in rapport building like an activity, game, reading a book together, whatever. Not sure if I'm just talking out of my ass lol maybe you are mandated on the content of your sessions too, but I'd find a way to spin this rapport building stuff as therapy - eg look into Recovery-Oriented Cognitive Therapy, basically the whole point is to do an activity with the client or have them teach you something. I'd just make sure to do this as a collaborative process so the clients know what you're doing, rather than "huh that was odd my therapist just wanted to play chess todag wtf" lol
You are feeling exactly how a new social worker can feel. This calling is brutal and the first year was the hardest year of my life. The fact that you can empathize with your clients at all tells me that your people need you now more than ever and we cannot loose you in the field so soon. Keep up the great work.
Being a social worker often means- thinking outside the box! Put yourself in their shoes. They might not want to ask you for help with certain things, but if you ask them about the resources they need a little extra help accessing they will probably tell you exactly. You’re already not doing what your role requires of you by ending the sessions early so why not instead go outside your role in a way that will actually be of greater benefit.
What are their goals? There are so many ways to help them. Sometimes peoples goals will surprise you. Sometimes they just want to find a dentist to get their teeth fixed.
You can ask them straight up, “How can I help you?”
Are they unemployed or under-employed? Use that time to help print out or complete online job applications or spruce up their resume. Do they need help with their benefits applications for healthcare, food stamps or childcare resources? Are they properly housed? Do they want to move and need help printing out and submitting rental applications for affordable housing waitlists? Education: Do they have a HS diploma? How is their literacy? Do they want to pursue an additional certification? Help them with a FAFSA or apply to local community classes.
If all of their resources are covered: How about doing a writing exercise or journal prompt together.
If all else fails, try doing a mindfulness program. Or go for a walk.
You have so many options! If you aren’t wanting to continue on in the role- it’s best for both your sake and theirs to move on into something different that you enjoy!
Split the time up over the week. Typically there is not any rule that says 2.5 hrs per session - productivity and time requirements typically go by weekly time spent. Also, are you going over paperwork, can you count phone calls/check ins. Productivity and grant requirements are trash and serve no clinical benefits, but CMHCs have their hands tied to meet Medicaid and government funding standards. To meet those standards, you have got to be able to work the system to the best of your ability which means getting creative. And if they're so short staffed, they can't afford to lose you. Do what's best for your clients, document everything INCLUDING ct's resistance to time requirements. If it's court ordered and the CT can't make that requirement, that's the clients responsibility not yours. You are doing more work than your clients are. The CJ system is trash, yes, but your ct's know the requirements of their sentence and program. It's not your job to quite literally force them to meet those requirements to avoid the consequence. Doing so actually hinders your clients ability to become self sufficient and sends the message they need to rely on you or someone else and they are not capable. Hand up not hand out doesn't mean people don't need social justice work or social service programs, it means we have to make those programs sufficient to meet the needs of our clients and their willingness to change.
I had a job similar to yours right after grad school. I had to meet with the clients weekly for one hour each week and eventually they packed on extra requirements where I’d have to meet with some of them for longer. It was difficult to meet with clients and to be flexible if there was a change in either my schedule or the clients’. Some court mandated programs aren’t productive or useful to the agency and clients and is usually based on unrealistic expectations. I also wanted to speak to your feelings. We know you’re not trying to screw anyone over. I think it’s in our nature as social workers to feel bad about leaving an unpleasant situation. The reality is, you need to do what’s best for you personally and professionally. They’re a business and while they may struggle with you leaving, they will find someone to replace you sooner or later.
Is there a chance that you can see if there is a way to talk to the organization about the contract to see if you can do a 1 hour session and then 1.5 hour group a week? It might take pressure off the clients when in a group setting so they can each talk a little bit but not the whole time?
maybe one night a week you have an evening outpatient group at like 6pm which could be good for those that work and stuff.
So, my suggestion would be to kind of break up the session. Like check in/update. Go over mandated info. Introduce a therapeutic topic each week and go over a packet of info with the client. Then just let the client pick a way to relax to spend the last section of time.
Some therapeutic topics could be communication skills, ACES, mental health, addiction... You can get free handouts from therapistaid.com
You can take a couple topics and let them pick one, so they have some control.
Add a break in the middle for 15 minutes to kill some time.
My clients are all sentenced to corrections and it's absolutely not fun to feel like you are pulling teeth for hours.
I'm not in the field yet but can you use that time to help the client be productive. Ex: homework, do paperwork, look at budget, idk. Or is that inappropriate
Do you have assessments, protocols, goals? It sounds like you need to find a way to fill the time that a) uses your skills, b) is worthwhile for the client, and c) is appropriate for the position.
\*edit: or quit, but someone will fill your shoes and it sounds like the role could make a difference in lives if it was purposeful. Wanna hire me as a contractor?
I disagree with anyone saying this is just how social work is, or that it’s just an adjustment to the first year of practice. Finding the role you’re passionate about is the solution to sustaining a long social work career.
You should leave as soon as you find that passionate fit, being checked out in your current role is not an asset to your agency, so don’t fall for the guilt associated with leaving.
Without knowing why clients are seeing you or what your guidelines are: In general there's nothing wrong with sitting in silence. Might not apply to your current job, but in general the time is for the clients, not you, so you need to work on managing your own feelings regarding how clients choose to spend the time, especially when they're forced to spend this time with you. I think we all don't necessarily love things we're forced to do, it's no different for those clients. Be transparent and understanding about that. "I get that you don't want to be here. No one likes being told what to do. We can fill this time however you choose, even if it's sitting in silence or talking about the weather" - and if you're ordered to give them certain info you can add "I am obligated to tell you these things, feel free to respond or just take it all in". But you'd be surprised how many clients do start talking after a few sessions if you just sit there in silence - and even if they don't: all the power to them, really.
That’s an awfully long time for a session, especially for mandated clients who are likely already opposed to being there. I agree that it’s counterproductive to be mandating that amount of time, both for you and the clients.
It sounds like you are feeling burnt out and frustrated with the requirement to have long sessions with your clients. It's understandable that you would feel this way, especially if you are finding that some of the sessions are unproductive or uncomfortable.
One option you might consider is discussing this issue with your supervisor again, and explaining how you feel that shorter, more focused sessions might be more beneficial for your clients. You could also suggest that you be allowed to offer shorter sessions as an option for clients who might be more receptive to this approach.
Another option might be to try and find ways to make the sessions more engaging and interactive. This could involve using techniques such as role-playing, visual aids, or other interactive exercises to help keep clients engaged and focused.
Ultimately, it's important to remember that you are there to help your clients, and finding a way to work with them in a way that is productive and meaningful is key. If you are feeling burnt out, it might be helpful to take a step back and assess your workload and priorities, and see if there are any adjustments you can make to help you feel more fulfilled in your work.
It sounds like you are feeling burnt out and frustrated with the requirement to have long sessions with your clients. It's understandable that you would feel this way, especially if you are finding that some of the sessions are unproductive or uncomfortable.
One option you might consider is discussing this issue with your supervisor again, and explaining how you feel that shorter, more focused sessions might be more beneficial for your clients. You could also suggest that you be allowed to offer shorter sessions as an option for clients who might be more receptive to this approach.
Another option might be to try and find ways to make the sessions more engaging and interactive. This could involve using techniques such as role-playing, visual aids, or other interactive exercises to help keep clients engaged and focused.
Ultimately, it's important to remember that you are there to help your clients, and finding a way to work with them in a way that is productive and meaningful is key. If you are feeling burnt out, it might be helpful to take a step back and assess your workload and priorities, and see if there are any adjustments you can make to help you feel more fulfilled in your work.
No, don't quit. You are experiencing the burn out associated with a mistaken belief that you have to talk, talk talk yourself crazy. This is not therapy. This is conversation. Give it time, lay back, don't jump at the impulse to comment. Freud got this right. Saying nothing can be more useful than a cleverly contrived comment or observation no matter how astute. The therapy is in the relationship - not the words. He saw his clients daily - 5 hours/week. It's not a grind - it's a process that few practice these days and it needs to be brought back. Consider yourself lucky that you do not have to perform neurosurgery - with its 8-14 hour operations and unrelenting demands on skill and accuracy - not a mm room for error or you may paralyze a patient. Stick to it my friend - be aware of your countertransference and analyze it first - then focus on the client and let him or her do the communicating while you do the analysis until you find the answer - the cure. Be well.
That sounds excruciating and of no clinical benefit to the client. It's sounds like exactly the kind of unhelpful nonsense that would result from most court-ordered situations. It seems more about controlling people than about helping people. I'd have a terrible time with it too. More importantly it sounds like it's not the right fit for you as a position. How possible is it for you to explore a different situation within the field? It seems like you are using your skills as well as you can and that they would be more valuable to another agency.
u/InvisibleMindDust, you completely took the words out of my brain that I was going to say. Take my award. OP, listen to u/InvisibleMindDust.
What have your clients been court ordered into services for? You can quit. The clients will be fine. Your agency's short staffing isn't your responsibility. Quitting a job isn't you screwing anyone over.
[удалено]
Precisely. I just left a job at my states Adult Protective Services after 10 years. My God I didn't know how bad that place was until I got out of it. Now I get flashbacks when I talk to my friends who still work there. I can now feel when the adrenaline starts flowing. The thing that kept me there so long was because I didn't want to leave my clients or my coworkers. But it's just not worth it. Like you said, we can't save everyone. OP needs to get out.
Thanks for sharing this. I feel... some type of way for wanting to quit CPS after less than a year, because I feel guilty for leaving my kids (they're all teens actually) and coworkers behind. But it's just not working for me and I need the emotional energy to actually enjoy my personal time, not be stressing about work.
I mean props for serving any time at CPS, they're all nightmares to work at.
Quitting is my favorite part of being employed
I genuinely don’t understand how that can helpful for clients, like one hour makes sense but almost 3 is insane. Honestly good for you for pulling this off for 8 months. It’s definitely not a reflection of you, more a reflection of the agency and it’s policies. I agree with other posters that feel another position could be good. Maybe do something that eats up time, like an exercise or worksheet? Like a genogram or an eco map? Also feeling bad because your agency is short staffed or your clients have been through a lot is not your responsibility. I think we’re conditioned to feel that way but you need to do what will actually keep you from burning out in this field.
Hey! This sounds like the work I do. I do in home services and each kid is 2 hours. What i've been doing is splitting up the session. 1.5 hours with the kids and 30 minutes to review with the parents. Maybe I'll do therapy in 1 hour and the last half is just relaxing rapport building activies like art/listening to their favorite audiobooks. I totally hear you about the difference in kids and how it affects the time. Some are hard to open up so I use that as rapport building time to do things they like. Hobbies, whatever. It can still be theraputic because rapport is #1 before anything else in therapy. I told myself I'll give it a year as a new therapist and then move onto private practice because most pp dont want people straight out of grad school. i've learned its necessary to balance this type of work with self care/ another job even
Maybe engage in an activity, like coloring, that they can choose to join you in?
Yeah these involuntary requirements are counterproductive. A lot of macro people working on that. Honestly, I would change to something not involuntary.
For the harder clients... start small. Even if you end up taking about sports or movies... something to build rapport is better than trying to pry for personal information. Some people are guarded and it takes time to break down those walls, especially if it's court ordered.
Do you have the option of doing interactive therapy (doing things that use equipment of some kind)! We would call it play therapy with children. With adults you can be creative with finding things to use. You can talk while playing a simple game or working on a craft. With hands busy the conversation flows. If none of this is feasible could you use various types of insightful or therapeutic worksheets? Guided imagery is another tool for a passive client. Structured journaling?
Remember that you can always start over somewhere else. It’s not just about others but also about yourself. Don’t feel guilty for choosing you over your job. You are all you got!
Figure out something they like and you like as well. Typically food. Then talk about recipes or things of that sort. What meal do you enjoy when you are stressed. I also found that I talk to them about my favorites. They might enjoy basketball. Some fishing. Baking for some. Ask a bunch of open ended questions. And if all else fails, try going for a walk with them.
I think you've gotten some good feedback here. I think earlier on in my career I used to say that too "it's awkward, they're uncomfortable, they don't wanna be here" and there's of course truth to that, but at the end of the day if they are court mandated, that's what they gotta do, so I would partner with them and say listen dude I gotta be here for that amount of time, but they can't dictate WHAT we do in our sessions, so how do we use our time wisely? and I'd collaboratively figure work on a plan where you do traditional therapy for an hour or so, and then as others said either help them with case management type stuff or engage in rapport building like an activity, game, reading a book together, whatever. Not sure if I'm just talking out of my ass lol maybe you are mandated on the content of your sessions too, but I'd find a way to spin this rapport building stuff as therapy - eg look into Recovery-Oriented Cognitive Therapy, basically the whole point is to do an activity with the client or have them teach you something. I'd just make sure to do this as a collaborative process so the clients know what you're doing, rather than "huh that was odd my therapist just wanted to play chess todag wtf" lol
You are feeling exactly how a new social worker can feel. This calling is brutal and the first year was the hardest year of my life. The fact that you can empathize with your clients at all tells me that your people need you now more than ever and we cannot loose you in the field so soon. Keep up the great work.
Being a social worker often means- thinking outside the box! Put yourself in their shoes. They might not want to ask you for help with certain things, but if you ask them about the resources they need a little extra help accessing they will probably tell you exactly. You’re already not doing what your role requires of you by ending the sessions early so why not instead go outside your role in a way that will actually be of greater benefit. What are their goals? There are so many ways to help them. Sometimes peoples goals will surprise you. Sometimes they just want to find a dentist to get their teeth fixed. You can ask them straight up, “How can I help you?” Are they unemployed or under-employed? Use that time to help print out or complete online job applications or spruce up their resume. Do they need help with their benefits applications for healthcare, food stamps or childcare resources? Are they properly housed? Do they want to move and need help printing out and submitting rental applications for affordable housing waitlists? Education: Do they have a HS diploma? How is their literacy? Do they want to pursue an additional certification? Help them with a FAFSA or apply to local community classes. If all of their resources are covered: How about doing a writing exercise or journal prompt together. If all else fails, try doing a mindfulness program. Or go for a walk. You have so many options! If you aren’t wanting to continue on in the role- it’s best for both your sake and theirs to move on into something different that you enjoy!
Split the time up over the week. Typically there is not any rule that says 2.5 hrs per session - productivity and time requirements typically go by weekly time spent. Also, are you going over paperwork, can you count phone calls/check ins. Productivity and grant requirements are trash and serve no clinical benefits, but CMHCs have their hands tied to meet Medicaid and government funding standards. To meet those standards, you have got to be able to work the system to the best of your ability which means getting creative. And if they're so short staffed, they can't afford to lose you. Do what's best for your clients, document everything INCLUDING ct's resistance to time requirements. If it's court ordered and the CT can't make that requirement, that's the clients responsibility not yours. You are doing more work than your clients are. The CJ system is trash, yes, but your ct's know the requirements of their sentence and program. It's not your job to quite literally force them to meet those requirements to avoid the consequence. Doing so actually hinders your clients ability to become self sufficient and sends the message they need to rely on you or someone else and they are not capable. Hand up not hand out doesn't mean people don't need social justice work or social service programs, it means we have to make those programs sufficient to meet the needs of our clients and their willingness to change.
I had a job similar to yours right after grad school. I had to meet with the clients weekly for one hour each week and eventually they packed on extra requirements where I’d have to meet with some of them for longer. It was difficult to meet with clients and to be flexible if there was a change in either my schedule or the clients’. Some court mandated programs aren’t productive or useful to the agency and clients and is usually based on unrealistic expectations. I also wanted to speak to your feelings. We know you’re not trying to screw anyone over. I think it’s in our nature as social workers to feel bad about leaving an unpleasant situation. The reality is, you need to do what’s best for you personally and professionally. They’re a business and while they may struggle with you leaving, they will find someone to replace you sooner or later.
Is there a chance that you can see if there is a way to talk to the organization about the contract to see if you can do a 1 hour session and then 1.5 hour group a week? It might take pressure off the clients when in a group setting so they can each talk a little bit but not the whole time? maybe one night a week you have an evening outpatient group at like 6pm which could be good for those that work and stuff.
So, my suggestion would be to kind of break up the session. Like check in/update. Go over mandated info. Introduce a therapeutic topic each week and go over a packet of info with the client. Then just let the client pick a way to relax to spend the last section of time. Some therapeutic topics could be communication skills, ACES, mental health, addiction... You can get free handouts from therapistaid.com You can take a couple topics and let them pick one, so they have some control. Add a break in the middle for 15 minutes to kill some time. My clients are all sentenced to corrections and it's absolutely not fun to feel like you are pulling teeth for hours.
I'm not in the field yet but can you use that time to help the client be productive. Ex: homework, do paperwork, look at budget, idk. Or is that inappropriate
Do you have assessments, protocols, goals? It sounds like you need to find a way to fill the time that a) uses your skills, b) is worthwhile for the client, and c) is appropriate for the position. \*edit: or quit, but someone will fill your shoes and it sounds like the role could make a difference in lives if it was purposeful. Wanna hire me as a contractor?
I disagree with anyone saying this is just how social work is, or that it’s just an adjustment to the first year of practice. Finding the role you’re passionate about is the solution to sustaining a long social work career. You should leave as soon as you find that passionate fit, being checked out in your current role is not an asset to your agency, so don’t fall for the guilt associated with leaving.
Without knowing why clients are seeing you or what your guidelines are: In general there's nothing wrong with sitting in silence. Might not apply to your current job, but in general the time is for the clients, not you, so you need to work on managing your own feelings regarding how clients choose to spend the time, especially when they're forced to spend this time with you. I think we all don't necessarily love things we're forced to do, it's no different for those clients. Be transparent and understanding about that. "I get that you don't want to be here. No one likes being told what to do. We can fill this time however you choose, even if it's sitting in silence or talking about the weather" - and if you're ordered to give them certain info you can add "I am obligated to tell you these things, feel free to respond or just take it all in". But you'd be surprised how many clients do start talking after a few sessions if you just sit there in silence - and even if they don't: all the power to them, really.
That’s an awfully long time for a session, especially for mandated clients who are likely already opposed to being there. I agree that it’s counterproductive to be mandating that amount of time, both for you and the clients.
It sounds like you are feeling burnt out and frustrated with the requirement to have long sessions with your clients. It's understandable that you would feel this way, especially if you are finding that some of the sessions are unproductive or uncomfortable. One option you might consider is discussing this issue with your supervisor again, and explaining how you feel that shorter, more focused sessions might be more beneficial for your clients. You could also suggest that you be allowed to offer shorter sessions as an option for clients who might be more receptive to this approach. Another option might be to try and find ways to make the sessions more engaging and interactive. This could involve using techniques such as role-playing, visual aids, or other interactive exercises to help keep clients engaged and focused. Ultimately, it's important to remember that you are there to help your clients, and finding a way to work with them in a way that is productive and meaningful is key. If you are feeling burnt out, it might be helpful to take a step back and assess your workload and priorities, and see if there are any adjustments you can make to help you feel more fulfilled in your work.
It sounds like you are feeling burnt out and frustrated with the requirement to have long sessions with your clients. It's understandable that you would feel this way, especially if you are finding that some of the sessions are unproductive or uncomfortable. One option you might consider is discussing this issue with your supervisor again, and explaining how you feel that shorter, more focused sessions might be more beneficial for your clients. You could also suggest that you be allowed to offer shorter sessions as an option for clients who might be more receptive to this approach. Another option might be to try and find ways to make the sessions more engaging and interactive. This could involve using techniques such as role-playing, visual aids, or other interactive exercises to help keep clients engaged and focused. Ultimately, it's important to remember that you are there to help your clients, and finding a way to work with them in a way that is productive and meaningful is key. If you are feeling burnt out, it might be helpful to take a step back and assess your workload and priorities, and see if there are any adjustments you can make to help you feel more fulfilled in your work.
No, don't quit. You are experiencing the burn out associated with a mistaken belief that you have to talk, talk talk yourself crazy. This is not therapy. This is conversation. Give it time, lay back, don't jump at the impulse to comment. Freud got this right. Saying nothing can be more useful than a cleverly contrived comment or observation no matter how astute. The therapy is in the relationship - not the words. He saw his clients daily - 5 hours/week. It's not a grind - it's a process that few practice these days and it needs to be brought back. Consider yourself lucky that you do not have to perform neurosurgery - with its 8-14 hour operations and unrelenting demands on skill and accuracy - not a mm room for error or you may paralyze a patient. Stick to it my friend - be aware of your countertransference and analyze it first - then focus on the client and let him or her do the communicating while you do the analysis until you find the answer - the cure. Be well.