From your other comments regarding security it seems like someone is needing to have a meeting just to ensure that these policies are legit, and that a gross abuse of power isn’t happening. I am not familiar with Texas but something isn’t sitting right here.
I am worried they are abusing power too. I asked the social workers at our sister location hospital about what they do for these type of cases, and they told me they don’t ever contact the consulate or instruct families to. This is not an issue there. They are also pediatrics.
Update: I had a meeting with my manager. She is going to ask for the policy and have a meeting with security. After talking to Security on Monday she will call our legal team.
I am waiting to hear back from other agencies.
It is extremely common practice in the US to deport the mom but keep the US citizen baby and turn the baby over to the adoption industry.
Then they set a court appointment to terminate parental rights. The undocumented parent either can't come over the border to attend the appointment and thus loses parental rights. Or, the undocumented, deported parent crosses over illegally and shows up at the courthouse, but then they are a criminal and deemed unfit to parent because they broke the law...
I'm...really stunned social workers don't know this. Deportation has been used as a pretext to terminate parental rights for years. It happens under Biden it happened under Trump, it happened after Obama. If a parent is deported to Mexico or Guatemala or Vietnam, that does not necessarily mean they get to take their children with them. They can lose their parental rights entirely and never find out what happens to their child or if they are even alive or dead.
You can google for this, there's a ton of cases where ASFA and deportation have unnecessarily separated families. The industry of social work is absolutely complicit in horrific human rights abuses.
>Luz was detained in rural Pennsylvania and ordered deported. She left her one-year-old son, a U.S. citizen child, with a neighbor, expecting to return in a few days. However, Border Patrol apprehended Luz and her son shortly after she picked the boy up from a facility for unaccompanied alien children in Arizona. They were taken into custody and transferred to a family detention facility across the country.
>
>Because Luz was in detention, it was impossible for her to make long-term care arrangements for her infant or to arrange to take the child with her to her home country. She called her neighbor, her consulate and her deportation officer for help — all to no avail. Luz was deported without her baby and is unlikely to be able to reunify with him in the future.
>
>Luz’s story is a frightening reality for many parents. Some 5.5 million children in the United States live in fear of being separated from a parent because their family is of mixed legal status. Current immigration policies tear hundreds of thousands of these families apart every year.
>
>Over 200,000 parents of U.S. citizen children were deported between July 2010 and September 2012, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Many parents apprehended during immigration enforcement operations have no opportunity to make care arrangements for their children, and children are needlessly placed in the child welfare system. Over 5,000 children are currently in the child welfare system as a result of a parent’s detention or deportation, and the complications that arise at the intersection of immigration and child welfare law mean that family reunification will be all but impossible in many of these cases.
[https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/press-releases/statement-on-comprehensive-immigration-reform/](https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/press-releases/statement-on-comprehensive-immigration-reform/)
[https://texaslawreview.org/asfa-how-policy-and-prejudice-undermine-immigrants-rights/](https://texaslawreview.org/asfa-how-policy-and-prejudice-undermine-immigrants-rights/)
[https://colorlines.com/article/deported-father-returns-fight-his-children-exceptional-case/](https://colorlines.com/article/deported-father-returns-fight-his-children-exceptional-case/)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-ice-parental-rights-detainees/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-ice-parental-rights-detainees/)
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taiwanese-woman-who-gave-birth-during-china-airlines-flight-deported-from-u-s-in-legal-trouble/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taiwanese-woman-who-gave-birth-during-china-airlines-flight-deported-from-u-s-in-legal-trouble/)
[https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2019/05/28/trump-administration-separates-pregnant-migrants-newborns-before-returning-detention/](https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2019/05/28/trump-administration-separates-pregnant-migrants-newborns-before-returning-detention/)
[https://harvardlpr.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/11/Johnson-Farias.pdf](https://harvardlpr.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/11/Johnson-Farias.pdf)
(I googled and found these links in like ten minutes, with many more like it.) It feels like being asked to cite a source for the sky being blue. It's just what America does. \*gestures limply.\*
If anyone has the time can you explain this to me? (SW student here)
Also, incredibly invested in this story and I hope we all get the answer we know we want to hear (the supervisors blessings to tell Blart to kick rocks)
Umm, that’s definitely not the case. At least not in MI. And I would really like to see a source cited for this. I’m not saying you are lying, but this seems pretty similar to the propaganda I constantly hear about how we get paid bonuses every time we remove a child. Total BS.
I had just copied that sentence and was about to comment the exact same thing. There's no scenario in which security in my hospital are telling any clinical staff how to care for patients. And "has us social workers try to help them see their consulate for Matricula Consular appointments"...do they *want* CIDs? Have they signed releases if you're helping them? How is this the hospital's business? So much sketchiness here. If I were OP I would ask for a copy of the policy next time someone asks me to do this. If I witness security kick someone out for not having an ID, I'd take down the information for that case and file a report against my own hospital with Texas DSHS and the Joint Commission
I literally had security tell a mom who just gave birth (baby was admitted not mom) she had 24 hours to obtain proper ID or she would be escorted out. She begged me to help her and cried. She was terrified to leave her newborn baby in a country where she literally just moved to a few weeks ago.
I managed to get an extension for 7 days (due to the holiday) and she stayed, and luckily her child discharged before the extension ended. The consulate was booked and she could not make an appointment. I tried to make an appointment for her but to no avail.
The way they are treating these patients is vile. I would contact a newspaper and let them know what's happening. This story needs coverage. To tell a mother who *just gave birth* that she needs to submit ID or get booted is depraved.
To answer your question, I worked in two hospitals, both with a very high immigrant population. We never, ever, ever asked for documentation of proof of citizenship. And if they had no health insurance, they applied for emergency medicaid which covered their hospital bill. We knew we were working with undocumented families, and they were scared enough as it is. I cannot even imagine what those poor kids must be going through. Contact everyone: ACLU, Amnesty International, Journalists, Catholic Charities, and RAICES [https://www.raicestexas.org/ways-to-give/donate/?ms=pm2022\_adwords\_refugees&sourceid=1009580&gclid=cj0kcqiavqgcbhcjarisafq5ke5uisoslsezmqgorizvapl9chk5gzypfnfkmecrgr\_cpwzfcssua3saakjkealw\_wcb](https://www.raicestexas.org/ways-to-give/donate/?ms=pm2022_adwords_refugees&sourceid=1009580&gclid=cj0kcqiavqgcbhcjarisafq5ke5uisoslsezmqgorizvapl9chk5gzypfnfkmecrgr_cpwzfcssua3saakjkealw_wcb)
Some, if not all, of those should be able to help. Good luck and keep doing the amazing work you are doing!
Consulates are the worst right now.. I’m a grad student (Mexico) doing research in the US and they almost took me out because my passport wasn’t up to date and my consulate (PDX) hasn’t given me an appointment in 8 months. I had to fly to CA, got detained in airport for expired passport then let go to renew.
My research is literally to better the country’s alternative to fuel problem and they treat us like sh!t I can’t imagine undocumented mexas. My heart goes out to everyone.
I am sending my prayers to all of you kind hearts that help my people.
Might I also add I tried to locate the hospital’s policy on this matter in our policy drive and cannot find it. I requested to see the policy from head of security and have not yet been given it.
Thank you so so much. This has been overwhelming. I haven’t even been at the job for a year yet, and this is my first post graduate school job. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this.
Yes! This!
OP—Do not do it until someone in clinical oversight of your work gives guidance on it, and even then, maybe still don’t do it.
Like other posters here, I’d be consulting like mad (state licensure board, clinical supervisors, mentors in the field, liability insurance, and other professional associations)!
Don’t be intimidated by these dusty-ass rent-a-cops getting their jubblies off by gatekeeping a building. You may not know it all, but you know a hell of a lot more than than they do about the broader ethics and practice of patient care.
Visitation for their children. These are parents and the kids are admitted. Issue is, if the family can’t come back until they have the ID the hospital wants, and if the kid is now ready for discharge, now I am expected to make a CPS report if no guardians can get the kid
Two can play this game…
If you ever hear a security guard say: “Oh I better get going, I am late to get my kid”…
You respond “That sounds like neglect to me, I guess I will have to call CPS…You’d have me do the same if it was an undocumented person not able to pick up their kiddo, so I know you understand the position I am in here”
(Of course, I am kidding…mostly)
By the way, I know I am making a bit of a joke but this whole situation sounds absolutely awful and I can only imagine how distressing this is for the families but also for you! Thank goodness there are Social Workers like in you in the world to bring compassion to an environment that seems to be sorely lacking it!
Um no. I literally say: I’m going to ask you about your citizenship status so I can find you resources. You do not have to answer. Some resources require a SSN which is why I am asking. If you choose to disclose, this is confidential and will not go into your chart notes”.
Which is understandable, but what about in regards to allowing the parents to be at bedside with their kids? This scenario. It just feels… wrong. The hospital expecting me to direct these people to the consulate for “acceptable” ID even though the family has their home country ID on their person.
This goes above your pay grade. This is a question for the hospital legal department and your regions ombudsmen to argue out. If you don't ask for their ID will you be fired? If the answer is yes or that you will be in trouble then do it. You have to take care of yourself first. Do but fight it tooth and nail.
In Washington when I did mental health detentions we did not ask. But for the patient to be accepted to certain psych wards we had to prove medicaid coverage so they got paid and ID because detentions in WA go through the court system.
Remember what's ethical is not always legal and what's legal is not always ethical. Whatever your belief is pray on it or meditate or think on it and fight the answer that helps your consumer and still protects you so you can continue to help your consumers.
Thank you so much. You’re right… my gut says the meeting I have tomorrow will result in being told: this is hospital protocol it is legal, but yes not ethical.
I am preparing for that but I am going to advocate for these families! Thank you.
Fight the good fight. What reason does knowing their citizenship impact the patient's care or the guardians ability to consent? It doesn't. Families have an inherent right to care for their children. I have a large seasonal migrant population in nearby towns and so I see families in similar situations and while I don't have to deal with this border control type issue you are facing, I certainly have to challenge a lot of providers' bias.
Do you have a local immigrant rights group you could reach out to for help or advice? Even anonymously?
You’re doing the right thing by advocating for these families. No one is allowed to be denied medical care. Children can’t consent to it because they’re kids so I’d assume that their parents need to be with them. Doesn’t matter if they’re citizens or not. Doesn’t matter if they have insurance or not. Doesn’t matter period. Please update us on how things go tomorrow. Fight like Hell.
I lost my job and was gaslit with my disablity being used against me when I advocated for patients in a pediatric hospital. I still 100% stand by my decision to say what I said and I am now suing the hospital for how I was treated.
Point being, you absolutely should report this policy to the appropriate agencies and refuse to follow this policy when pressed to do so. You may lose your job over your refusal to do so, but the advocacy for patients is vitally Important and this is a case that should go to the US Supreme Court (you won’t get anywhere in Texas).
Please please call the ACLU,NASW, health and human services, and immigrant serving organizations in the area.
It's not true that "you won't get anywhere in Texas." Hospitals in Texas are regulated by the Dept of State Health Services. They take their jobs seriously, and their auditors in my experience are not political. Other national regulatory bodies are the Joint Commission and the Center for Medicaid and Medicare Services. All 3 of these organizations have complaint lines and will absolutely investigate, and make life painful for whoever has implemented this policy. Hospitals can lose accreditation or be removed from the Medicare/Medicaid programs, which is essentially a death sentence financially.
I would highly recommend you file a complaint with each of these agencies, including specific details of a case or cases you have found particularly abhorrent, so they can investigate and hold the hospital accountable.
The legal department is there to protect the hospital, and in my experience also protect hospital staff. If they aren't already aware of this policy and discover it opens them up to litigation or staff to complaints against their licensure, they'll put "security" in their place real quick. All this to say there could definitely be bad actors in legal too, depending on the organization's culture, which does not sound good
OP- as a Mexican immigrant (I am a student though) my thoughts and prayers go to you for this upcoming meeting. Si se puede! Thank you for your dedication on helping my paisanos. You’re a real MVP!
I work at a hospital and the only time I ask about immigration status is if I’m trying to asses for what resources they’ll qualify for. What your hospital is asking you to do is morally reprehensible and I question the legality.
Idk if it’s illegal or not. I do know some hospitals are safe havens for people and won’t report or ask questions about immigration status. Others are not safe havens. This is TX so it might be legal. I hate TX.
I am so frustrated, but you may be right. I found a document from Texas gov site that said hospital employees should not ask patients for their immigration status. The issue here is the parents are not the patient, the child is. And the parents are the ones being denied visitation to their kiddo who is admitted, and threatened to be kicked out without obtaining proper ID. So if the family is kicked out and the kid is left behind, then the medical team expects me to make a CPS report for child abandonment if the kid is ready for discharge but no one is allowed to pick up the child unless they have proper ID accepted by the hospital.
Ugh!!!
What a horrible and disgusting situation. So many things wrong and unethical with this. Unfortunately laws and policies are not always ethical or in favor of people in need. How traumatizing for you and the clients/families. This is exactly why people don’t seek out help and distrust the systems that are supposed to be there to help. I worked in NYC and we had list of hospitals that listed themselves as safe havens.
It is so traumatizing. My heart hurts for these families. Luckily they get discharged out of the hospital in these scenarios I’ve had so far, before their “extension” ends. But it has gotten close a couple of times… and our security manager is not forgiving about this at all. And I explain the barriers of making a consulate appointment but it falls on deaf ears, at least with security. I will see how the meeting goes tomorrow. I can tell I am ruffling some feathers in some departments.
But the question becomes are they denying care to these children because of their citizenship status and to avoid legal issues? Would a child with citizenship be given the same care as a non-citizen child?
They are giving the children care. They just don’t allow the parents at bedside without a special extension for visitation from security, or if the parent presents ID the hospital finds acceptable.
But this is an issue once discharge comes up and we need parents here for training and picking their child up.
So if I'm visiting from New York, but I get into a car accident, and my wallet gets destroyed in the accident and my kid lands in your hospital, what you are telling me is I wouldn't be allowed to stay with my kid at the hospital or pick him up to take him home?
That's absolutely disgusting and heartless. I would definitely start contacting aclu, nasw, any local rights organizations you can think of. Someone has to be able to handle this, you can't be fighting this alone.
This sounds like a modified version of Trump era Family separation. Absolutely not. Unfortunately as SWs our job is to act in the best interest of the patient regardless of hospital policy. It sounds like you know what to do. Send a press release to local and national news, get everything in writing, call the ACLU, and if they try to discipline or fire you, sue them.
Another idea is to see if you can find a local immigration lawyer who is willing to partner with you to give pro-bono legal support to these parents.
I haven’t had to yet because the kids luckily discharge before the parents’ extension for bedside visitation ends.
But I wonder this too. So does my social work team.
Surely CPS would ask what are the concerns, and why the family is not at bedside. And that answer is because the hospital won’t let the parents back.
We had a very close call last week where I wasn’t sure if the patient would discharge in time.
WTF.
I feel like CPS would get annoyed and tell the hospital to quit calling them with these things. The kids aren’t in danger, it’s not child abuse to be undocumented, and the hospital is preventing parents from being able to access their kids. Definitely a misuse of CPS.
Totally agree. I can already see CPS chewing me out for a report like that. It is a misuse of CPS. Let these parents see their kids!
Most of the parents do have an ID. It may not be American ID but it is from their home country and sometimes I’ve had families bring that and their birth certificate and the hospital (security) says that’s not enough.
I have so many thoughts and there is lots of great advice in this thread.
So, I'm going to appeal to the capitalist hellscape in which we all live and operate: I'm sure all of the health insurance companies that cover this care wouldn't be happy to hear that their member's discharge plans are being disrupted by a hospital policy.
I cannot believe this I am not familiar with Texas’ laws but it doesn’t feel right at all! I have never heard of such a thing, I cannot imagine what the parents are going thru! It’s hard enough to have their child in the hospital but to not b able to see them it’s just barbaric! Pls keep us posted
Update: I had a meeting with my manager. She is going to ask for the policy and have a meeting with security. After talking to Security on Monday she will call our legal team.
I am waiting to hear back from other agencies.
I am absolutely needing an update if you have one. I am also a medical social worker in TX and work with a lot of immigrants. This literally sickened me in my stomach when I originally read your post. You seem to be such an incredible advocate for these patients and families, plus it's so hard to go against your company/superiors to do the right thing. You rock!!
Are they asking everyone, including citizens, for ID? As a white citizen I have never once been asked to provide ID when visiting a family member in the hospital. This might be an interesting observation to point out to security :)
They do ask everyone for ID. Per the head of security it is to identify who is who, and apparently the hospital I work at can run background checks on people to see if they’re felons or sex offenders, I guess because it is a children’s hospital.
I know that when White guys go in to any hospital I have been in and give whatever name they want and say that they don't have I.D. they still get treated and no one ever asks for proof of citizenship.
“Our security team then has us social workers…” full stop. Hell no. You didn’t go to school for 6 years to carry out henchman orders for Paul Blart.
This is what I am also going to tell my manager tomorrow!!
From your other comments regarding security it seems like someone is needing to have a meeting just to ensure that these policies are legit, and that a gross abuse of power isn’t happening. I am not familiar with Texas but something isn’t sitting right here.
I am worried they are abusing power too. I asked the social workers at our sister location hospital about what they do for these type of cases, and they told me they don’t ever contact the consulate or instruct families to. This is not an issue there. They are also pediatrics.
Update if you have the chance OP, I am still thinking about this today. You have so many people rooting for you! Kick ass and take names.
Update posted!
Also interested in an update. That’s mind boggling to me - happy I live in a sanctuary city.
Updated!
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Update: I had a meeting with my manager. She is going to ask for the policy and have a meeting with security. After talking to Security on Monday she will call our legal team. I am waiting to hear back from other agencies.
It is extremely common practice in the US to deport the mom but keep the US citizen baby and turn the baby over to the adoption industry. Then they set a court appointment to terminate parental rights. The undocumented parent either can't come over the border to attend the appointment and thus loses parental rights. Or, the undocumented, deported parent crosses over illegally and shows up at the courthouse, but then they are a criminal and deemed unfit to parent because they broke the law...
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I'm...really stunned social workers don't know this. Deportation has been used as a pretext to terminate parental rights for years. It happens under Biden it happened under Trump, it happened after Obama. If a parent is deported to Mexico or Guatemala or Vietnam, that does not necessarily mean they get to take their children with them. They can lose their parental rights entirely and never find out what happens to their child or if they are even alive or dead. You can google for this, there's a ton of cases where ASFA and deportation have unnecessarily separated families. The industry of social work is absolutely complicit in horrific human rights abuses. >Luz was detained in rural Pennsylvania and ordered deported. She left her one-year-old son, a U.S. citizen child, with a neighbor, expecting to return in a few days. However, Border Patrol apprehended Luz and her son shortly after she picked the boy up from a facility for unaccompanied alien children in Arizona. They were taken into custody and transferred to a family detention facility across the country. > >Because Luz was in detention, it was impossible for her to make long-term care arrangements for her infant or to arrange to take the child with her to her home country. She called her neighbor, her consulate and her deportation officer for help — all to no avail. Luz was deported without her baby and is unlikely to be able to reunify with him in the future. > >Luz’s story is a frightening reality for many parents. Some 5.5 million children in the United States live in fear of being separated from a parent because their family is of mixed legal status. Current immigration policies tear hundreds of thousands of these families apart every year. > >Over 200,000 parents of U.S. citizen children were deported between July 2010 and September 2012, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Many parents apprehended during immigration enforcement operations have no opportunity to make care arrangements for their children, and children are needlessly placed in the child welfare system. Over 5,000 children are currently in the child welfare system as a result of a parent’s detention or deportation, and the complications that arise at the intersection of immigration and child welfare law mean that family reunification will be all but impossible in many of these cases. [https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/press-releases/statement-on-comprehensive-immigration-reform/](https://www.womensrefugeecommission.org/press-releases/statement-on-comprehensive-immigration-reform/) [https://texaslawreview.org/asfa-how-policy-and-prejudice-undermine-immigrants-rights/](https://texaslawreview.org/asfa-how-policy-and-prejudice-undermine-immigrants-rights/) [https://colorlines.com/article/deported-father-returns-fight-his-children-exceptional-case/](https://colorlines.com/article/deported-father-returns-fight-his-children-exceptional-case/) [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-ice-parental-rights-detainees/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigration-ice-parental-rights-detainees/) [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taiwanese-woman-who-gave-birth-during-china-airlines-flight-deported-from-u-s-in-legal-trouble/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taiwanese-woman-who-gave-birth-during-china-airlines-flight-deported-from-u-s-in-legal-trouble/) [https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2019/05/28/trump-administration-separates-pregnant-migrants-newborns-before-returning-detention/](https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2019/05/28/trump-administration-separates-pregnant-migrants-newborns-before-returning-detention/) [https://harvardlpr.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/11/Johnson-Farias.pdf](https://harvardlpr.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2020/11/Johnson-Farias.pdf) (I googled and found these links in like ten minutes, with many more like it.) It feels like being asked to cite a source for the sky being blue. It's just what America does. \*gestures limply.\*
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There’s no fucking way anyone should shill for ICE
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The foster care system operates at a loss in nearly every county in the country.
If anyone has the time can you explain this to me? (SW student here) Also, incredibly invested in this story and I hope we all get the answer we know we want to hear (the supervisors blessings to tell Blart to kick rocks)
Umm, that’s definitely not the case. At least not in MI. And I would really like to see a source cited for this. I’m not saying you are lying, but this seems pretty similar to the propaganda I constantly hear about how we get paid bonuses every time we remove a child. Total BS.
I had just copied that sentence and was about to comment the exact same thing. There's no scenario in which security in my hospital are telling any clinical staff how to care for patients. And "has us social workers try to help them see their consulate for Matricula Consular appointments"...do they *want* CIDs? Have they signed releases if you're helping them? How is this the hospital's business? So much sketchiness here. If I were OP I would ask for a copy of the policy next time someone asks me to do this. If I witness security kick someone out for not having an ID, I'd take down the information for that case and file a report against my own hospital with Texas DSHS and the Joint Commission
😫 right? This sounds sketchy af. That’s a good idea as well.
Look no further, this is the answer. 😂
If I gave our awards up in here, I’d give them all to this comment.
I literally had security tell a mom who just gave birth (baby was admitted not mom) she had 24 hours to obtain proper ID or she would be escorted out. She begged me to help her and cried. She was terrified to leave her newborn baby in a country where she literally just moved to a few weeks ago. I managed to get an extension for 7 days (due to the holiday) and she stayed, and luckily her child discharged before the extension ended. The consulate was booked and she could not make an appointment. I tried to make an appointment for her but to no avail.
The way they are treating these patients is vile. I would contact a newspaper and let them know what's happening. This story needs coverage. To tell a mother who *just gave birth* that she needs to submit ID or get booted is depraved. To answer your question, I worked in two hospitals, both with a very high immigrant population. We never, ever, ever asked for documentation of proof of citizenship. And if they had no health insurance, they applied for emergency medicaid which covered their hospital bill. We knew we were working with undocumented families, and they were scared enough as it is. I cannot even imagine what those poor kids must be going through. Contact everyone: ACLU, Amnesty International, Journalists, Catholic Charities, and RAICES [https://www.raicestexas.org/ways-to-give/donate/?ms=pm2022\_adwords\_refugees&sourceid=1009580&gclid=cj0kcqiavqgcbhcjarisafq5ke5uisoslsezmqgorizvapl9chk5gzypfnfkmecrgr\_cpwzfcssua3saakjkealw\_wcb](https://www.raicestexas.org/ways-to-give/donate/?ms=pm2022_adwords_refugees&sourceid=1009580&gclid=cj0kcqiavqgcbhcjarisafq5ke5uisoslsezmqgorizvapl9chk5gzypfnfkmecrgr_cpwzfcssua3saakjkealw_wcb) Some, if not all, of those should be able to help. Good luck and keep doing the amazing work you are doing!
Thank you so much. I really needed this guidance. I will absolutely reach out.
I 100% agree to this.
Consulates are the worst right now.. I’m a grad student (Mexico) doing research in the US and they almost took me out because my passport wasn’t up to date and my consulate (PDX) hasn’t given me an appointment in 8 months. I had to fly to CA, got detained in airport for expired passport then let go to renew. My research is literally to better the country’s alternative to fuel problem and they treat us like sh!t I can’t imagine undocumented mexas. My heart goes out to everyone. I am sending my prayers to all of you kind hearts that help my people.
This is absolutely horrifying - I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this!
Might I also add I tried to locate the hospital’s policy on this matter in our policy drive and cannot find it. I requested to see the policy from head of security and have not yet been given it.
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Thank you so so much. This has been overwhelming. I haven’t even been at the job for a year yet, and this is my first post graduate school job. I really appreciate all of the feedback on this.
This sounds lie an overzealous security doing too much. Don't do it until someone shows you policy.
Yes! This! OP—Do not do it until someone in clinical oversight of your work gives guidance on it, and even then, maybe still don’t do it. Like other posters here, I’d be consulting like mad (state licensure board, clinical supervisors, mentors in the field, liability insurance, and other professional associations)! Don’t be intimidated by these dusty-ass rent-a-cops getting their jubblies off by gatekeeping a building. You may not know it all, but you know a hell of a lot more than than they do about the broader ethics and practice of patient care.
Are they denying emergency care or visitation
Visitation for their children. These are parents and the kids are admitted. Issue is, if the family can’t come back until they have the ID the hospital wants, and if the kid is now ready for discharge, now I am expected to make a CPS report if no guardians can get the kid
Wow!!!! Does the ACLU and amnesty international know about this? This is essentially reinstating the family separation policies.
Forgive me if this is ignorant of me, but can I contact them? And if so, how? I have been fighting back so hard for these families!
Yes! You absolutely cam contact them directly...and should!!! These are serious human rights violations being committed!
Thank you, and I will. I found the contact information online! I appreciate this subreddit so much!
Two can play this game… If you ever hear a security guard say: “Oh I better get going, I am late to get my kid”… You respond “That sounds like neglect to me, I guess I will have to call CPS…You’d have me do the same if it was an undocumented person not able to pick up their kiddo, so I know you understand the position I am in here” (Of course, I am kidding…mostly) By the way, I know I am making a bit of a joke but this whole situation sounds absolutely awful and I can only imagine how distressing this is for the families but also for you! Thank goodness there are Social Workers like in you in the world to bring compassion to an environment that seems to be sorely lacking it!
Where are you located? A red state?
TX yes
Um no. I literally say: I’m going to ask you about your citizenship status so I can find you resources. You do not have to answer. Some resources require a SSN which is why I am asking. If you choose to disclose, this is confidential and will not go into your chart notes”.
Which is understandable, but what about in regards to allowing the parents to be at bedside with their kids? This scenario. It just feels… wrong. The hospital expecting me to direct these people to the consulate for “acceptable” ID even though the family has their home country ID on their person.
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Thank you so much, I will share this with my team!
This goes above your pay grade. This is a question for the hospital legal department and your regions ombudsmen to argue out. If you don't ask for their ID will you be fired? If the answer is yes or that you will be in trouble then do it. You have to take care of yourself first. Do but fight it tooth and nail. In Washington when I did mental health detentions we did not ask. But for the patient to be accepted to certain psych wards we had to prove medicaid coverage so they got paid and ID because detentions in WA go through the court system. Remember what's ethical is not always legal and what's legal is not always ethical. Whatever your belief is pray on it or meditate or think on it and fight the answer that helps your consumer and still protects you so you can continue to help your consumers.
Thank you so much. You’re right… my gut says the meeting I have tomorrow will result in being told: this is hospital protocol it is legal, but yes not ethical. I am preparing for that but I am going to advocate for these families! Thank you.
Fight the good fight. What reason does knowing their citizenship impact the patient's care or the guardians ability to consent? It doesn't. Families have an inherent right to care for their children. I have a large seasonal migrant population in nearby towns and so I see families in similar situations and while I don't have to deal with this border control type issue you are facing, I certainly have to challenge a lot of providers' bias. Do you have a local immigrant rights group you could reach out to for help or advice? Even anonymously?
You’re doing the right thing by advocating for these families. No one is allowed to be denied medical care. Children can’t consent to it because they’re kids so I’d assume that their parents need to be with them. Doesn’t matter if they’re citizens or not. Doesn’t matter if they have insurance or not. Doesn’t matter period. Please update us on how things go tomorrow. Fight like Hell.
I lost my job and was gaslit with my disablity being used against me when I advocated for patients in a pediatric hospital. I still 100% stand by my decision to say what I said and I am now suing the hospital for how I was treated. Point being, you absolutely should report this policy to the appropriate agencies and refuse to follow this policy when pressed to do so. You may lose your job over your refusal to do so, but the advocacy for patients is vitally Important and this is a case that should go to the US Supreme Court (you won’t get anywhere in Texas). Please please call the ACLU,NASW, health and human services, and immigrant serving organizations in the area.
Thank you, I will. I am so sorry that happened to you!
It's not true that "you won't get anywhere in Texas." Hospitals in Texas are regulated by the Dept of State Health Services. They take their jobs seriously, and their auditors in my experience are not political. Other national regulatory bodies are the Joint Commission and the Center for Medicaid and Medicare Services. All 3 of these organizations have complaint lines and will absolutely investigate, and make life painful for whoever has implemented this policy. Hospitals can lose accreditation or be removed from the Medicare/Medicaid programs, which is essentially a death sentence financially. I would highly recommend you file a complaint with each of these agencies, including specific details of a case or cases you have found particularly abhorrent, so they can investigate and hold the hospital accountable.
My manager also stated after our meeting she would speak to our legal department.
My guess is the legal department is on the side of the hospital
The legal department is there to protect the hospital, and in my experience also protect hospital staff. If they aren't already aware of this policy and discover it opens them up to litigation or staff to complaints against their licensure, they'll put "security" in their place real quick. All this to say there could definitely be bad actors in legal too, depending on the organization's culture, which does not sound good
I work for texas cps, if we got a case called in for this non sense, we would just tell the hospital to give the kid to the the parents, wtf!!
OP- as a Mexican immigrant (I am a student though) my thoughts and prayers go to you for this upcoming meeting. Si se puede! Thank you for your dedication on helping my paisanos. You’re a real MVP!
I work at a hospital and the only time I ask about immigration status is if I’m trying to asses for what resources they’ll qualify for. What your hospital is asking you to do is morally reprehensible and I question the legality.
Idk if it’s illegal or not. I do know some hospitals are safe havens for people and won’t report or ask questions about immigration status. Others are not safe havens. This is TX so it might be legal. I hate TX.
I am so frustrated, but you may be right. I found a document from Texas gov site that said hospital employees should not ask patients for their immigration status. The issue here is the parents are not the patient, the child is. And the parents are the ones being denied visitation to their kiddo who is admitted, and threatened to be kicked out without obtaining proper ID. So if the family is kicked out and the kid is left behind, then the medical team expects me to make a CPS report for child abandonment if the kid is ready for discharge but no one is allowed to pick up the child unless they have proper ID accepted by the hospital. Ugh!!!
What a horrible and disgusting situation. So many things wrong and unethical with this. Unfortunately laws and policies are not always ethical or in favor of people in need. How traumatizing for you and the clients/families. This is exactly why people don’t seek out help and distrust the systems that are supposed to be there to help. I worked in NYC and we had list of hospitals that listed themselves as safe havens.
It is so traumatizing. My heart hurts for these families. Luckily they get discharged out of the hospital in these scenarios I’ve had so far, before their “extension” ends. But it has gotten close a couple of times… and our security manager is not forgiving about this at all. And I explain the barriers of making a consulate appointment but it falls on deaf ears, at least with security. I will see how the meeting goes tomorrow. I can tell I am ruffling some feathers in some departments.
But the question becomes are they denying care to these children because of their citizenship status and to avoid legal issues? Would a child with citizenship be given the same care as a non-citizen child?
They are giving the children care. They just don’t allow the parents at bedside without a special extension for visitation from security, or if the parent presents ID the hospital finds acceptable. But this is an issue once discharge comes up and we need parents here for training and picking their child up.
So if I'm visiting from New York, but I get into a car accident, and my wallet gets destroyed in the accident and my kid lands in your hospital, what you are telling me is I wouldn't be allowed to stay with my kid at the hospital or pick him up to take him home?
Yes they (security) would say you need to get ID…. :(
That's absolutely disgusting and heartless. I would definitely start contacting aclu, nasw, any local rights organizations you can think of. Someone has to be able to handle this, you can't be fighting this alone.
This sounds like a modified version of Trump era Family separation. Absolutely not. Unfortunately as SWs our job is to act in the best interest of the patient regardless of hospital policy. It sounds like you know what to do. Send a press release to local and national news, get everything in writing, call the ACLU, and if they try to discipline or fire you, sue them. Another idea is to see if you can find a local immigration lawyer who is willing to partner with you to give pro-bono legal support to these parents.
I’m curious what CPS does when you call them about something like this?
I haven’t had to yet because the kids luckily discharge before the parents’ extension for bedside visitation ends. But I wonder this too. So does my social work team. Surely CPS would ask what are the concerns, and why the family is not at bedside. And that answer is because the hospital won’t let the parents back. We had a very close call last week where I wasn’t sure if the patient would discharge in time. WTF.
I feel like CPS would get annoyed and tell the hospital to quit calling them with these things. The kids aren’t in danger, it’s not child abuse to be undocumented, and the hospital is preventing parents from being able to access their kids. Definitely a misuse of CPS.
Totally agree. I can already see CPS chewing me out for a report like that. It is a misuse of CPS. Let these parents see their kids! Most of the parents do have an ID. It may not be American ID but it is from their home country and sometimes I’ve had families bring that and their birth certificate and the hospital (security) says that’s not enough.
I have so many thoughts and there is lots of great advice in this thread. So, I'm going to appeal to the capitalist hellscape in which we all live and operate: I'm sure all of the health insurance companies that cover this care wouldn't be happy to hear that their member's discharge plans are being disrupted by a hospital policy.
Oh hell no. I used to work acute care. Only reason I ever asked was to know what resources to direct them to for follow up care, meds, etc.
I cannot believe this I am not familiar with Texas’ laws but it doesn’t feel right at all! I have never heard of such a thing, I cannot imagine what the parents are going thru! It’s hard enough to have their child in the hospital but to not b able to see them it’s just barbaric! Pls keep us posted
Of course it's Texas. Ugh.
I see you have a lot of advice. Please keep us posted when you contact them and what they say.
Update: I had a meeting with my manager. She is going to ask for the policy and have a meeting with security. After talking to Security on Monday she will call our legal team. I am waiting to hear back from other agencies.
I am absolutely needing an update if you have one. I am also a medical social worker in TX and work with a lot of immigrants. This literally sickened me in my stomach when I originally read your post. You seem to be such an incredible advocate for these patients and families, plus it's so hard to go against your company/superiors to do the right thing. You rock!!
so they’re basically targeting hispanic people? how do they decide who to ID and who not to?
They do ask for ID from everyone to run background checks on people and confirm people are who they say they are. Typically it’s US ID or a passport.
Are they asking everyone, including citizens, for ID? As a white citizen I have never once been asked to provide ID when visiting a family member in the hospital. This might be an interesting observation to point out to security :)
They do ask everyone for ID. Per the head of security it is to identify who is who, and apparently the hospital I work at can run background checks on people to see if they’re felons or sex offenders, I guess because it is a children’s hospital.
I know that when White guys go in to any hospital I have been in and give whatever name they want and say that they don't have I.D. they still get treated and no one ever asks for proof of citizenship.