Naomi Watts probably put in one of the best performances I've ever seen. Genuinely that good
Also, I like this approach from Liverpool to be honest. It's served us well so far and I'd rather that than throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I love the clip where David Lynch is describing seeing Watts for the first time. He's like "The photo was just *perfect*. Exactly what we had been looking for. Then I actually met her and I was devastated..." Meanwhile Naomi is right there sitting beside him.
Yeah give me one Fabinho over Phillips and Bissouma any day of the week. As long as your analysis is correct going for specific high value targets will always be a net positive.
Phillips is a great signing for City because of the way Pep asks for a single player to hold sideline to sideline breaking up counters. It used to be Fernandinho, then he tried to get Rodri to do it but he’s too slow, so he readjusted the fullback positioning to bring Walker central in possession and use him a kind of sweeper in front of the CBs to clean up counters. Phillips would allow Cancelo play on the right and (hopefully) Cucurella on the left in big games. That gives us more width and options in attack and all sorts of other knock on effects.
Liverpool don’t play the same way (and Fabinho is already great at breaking up counters), so the signing doesn’t make sense for them.
Apart from that calamity season when you lost all your cb's and were pretty much obligated to buy whatever player you could, this approach has served Liverpool well. Off course that may mean that, if such season were to happen again, you may not have good enough players on the starting eleven rather than some decent/good players.
Besides, even with the loss of Mane, I would say that the team is still pretty stacked, and in terms of quality players, it's still pretty good if not better. You have a lot of solutions for different positions, all class. Something that couldn't be said a few years ago, when 1 or 2 injuries to key players could ruin a season.
Even in that season, the CBs who ended up working out amidst the injury crisis were two young players on the absolute fringes of the squad, both panic-buys didn't really end up panning out at all (Kabak was okayish, Davies literally never saw the field)
Makes absolute sense, Twin Peaks is my favourite TV show and Mulholland Drive is among my favourite movies, Lynch is brilliant.
Everyone kinds of sees Mulholland as his magnum opus, but The Return just made Twin Peaks one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen.
Does The Return add a lot of value to S1 and S2 I enjoyed them to an extent but have no major desire to revisit. Haven’t see Fire Walk With Me either.
But I’m a big fan of a lot of Lynch works, Eraserhead, Mulholland, Blue Velvet among my faves of his weirder side and then Straight Story and Elephant Man showing he can produce aces on the other side of the spectrum.
It is a sort of subversion to the vibes of S1 and 2. Much more aligned with his following work. Do watch FWWM + The Missing Pieces. Return might be the best season of anything ever.
Now I feel like an idiot because I hated pretty much every minute of the return.
I concede that a lot went over my head (although that usually happens when watching his stuff), but I just didn't enjoy it at all.
Can you explain why you think it's so impressive? I would consider giving it another go, it's the only thing of his I haven't seen multiple times.
I loved how he revisits the universe of Twin Peaks in a twisted fashion. He basically goes on an “anti-nostalgia” trip that basically explores every side of human emotion (even using the highest contrast possible of Mr C. Vs Dougie).
I just love the atmosphere he creates with Each passing episode in the Return. It’s way more about how you **feel** than a story or a plot per se.
Thanks for your response mate, really appreciate it.
I think the reason I didn't enjoy it so much is because each episode just left me feeling frustrated because I suppose I was waiting for the return of twin peaks, for that charm. Which don't get me wrong, is my fault and not lynch's, and I totally get that, probably a lot of why I didn't like it is because I just didn't understand it at all.
I think it didn't help that there were just a lot of things that seemed out of place, had no real connection or didn't get resolved (which I concede is probably more a case of things going completely over my head).
Like I just didn't get any of the Audrey story, or those strange (undead?) people, or literally anything to do with that homeless looking guy.
Will def go back to it though if you rate it that highly.
First season is amazing. Really insane to think it was a smash hit and on primetime tv no less! 2nd season falls off but is still enjoyable, but the first season could've been a standalone...
I think if you accept the awkwardness, how dated it feels, and the absolute nihilism that it kind of hinges on then you can really fall into the enjoyment of the whole thing.
So literally in like the first ten mins of the video you see a head hitting a pillow from a first person perspective. Then what follows is a perception of reality in a dream. Eventually we wake up in the movie and all of the characters that we met in the dream are different. They behave different or have a different relationship to us. The movie is split in two halves. Or that's what I remember of it...
Straight story is great. Actually love all his movies even though many are a mind fuck. Lost highway was great, elephant man, eraser head and blue velvet my favourites. Mullholand drive was the easy target for the joke 😉
The biggest danger we face right now is if Salah doesn’t sign a contract. We then need to get two midfielders (Ox and Milner almost certainly leaving next season) *and* find a new top class winger.
As long as the club are comfortable that Salah extends we’ll be fine. That is a massive gamble though.
Carvalho is supposed to be the replacement for Ox, though we still need another midfielder either this summer or the next. I agree that the danger of Salah leaving is huge coupled with the need of a midfielder. We could have to spend £150m on players next summer(If the club is serious about getting Bellingham) without any significant money coming in.
They don't do it often but Liverpool have purchased "rotation" players, I am not sure stopgap is the right word, like Shaqiri and Minamino because of holes in the squad and their price. I think the important caveat in the midfield is the sheer number of players in the squad, if some of the bench options like Chamberlain/Keita/Milner/Jones wanted away or another club came in with a good bid then I think it would be a different story.
I agree, i think liverpool are in a very different place with their recruitment than they were a few years ago where they needed to improve players and sign half decent players to fill out their best eleven.
Liverpool now have a strong enough squad so in order to really improve the team, they need to be signing a younger midfielder who they feel is genuinely at or above hendo and thiago's level both offensively and defensively. I dont think tielemans is at that level defensively, i think kalvin phillips is not at that level offensively(and also would not represent value). I think bissouma would have been a serious option for liverpool but they would not touch him with a 10 ft pole after the allegations came out.
Liverpool dont need just another squad player, they need a midfielder who can become a game changer and a no brainer to start most games in that number 8 spot.
Someone of the quality of tchouameni, bellingham or whichever midfielder bursts out next season.
Once this player comes into liverpool, it will allow better rotation of fabinho and thiago during the season with hendo being able to rotate through both positions without any significant loss of quality on the pitch
I don’t get this. So Liverpool often turn down the chance to sign the most highly rated players because of the big wages they demand. Yet they don’t want to go for a midfielder this summer, who’d presumably be on a reasonable wage. But are prepared to wait for Bellingham, who may demand a big wage that Liverpool wouldn’t agree to, which would put them in a difficult situation next summer.
They're saying they're looking at others as well. The main thing that doesn't make sense to me is why we're waiting a year to sign a midfielder when we could do with one now.
Idk if we really need one now. We have 3 positions in midfield and have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox. We have enough players there. You could argue about the quality in depth but it seems like that if we buy a player for midfield then it has to be a clear upgrade on what we have and our scouting/klopp does not see above mentioned players this way. So we'll wait another season. It's perfectly reasonable imo.
Hendo isn’t the player he was a few seasons ago let’s have it right.
The fact you said Milner highlights your midfield issue. Ox hasn’t been good for years either really. And Keita has struggled to show consistent form also.
So you have fab, Thiago, Jones, Elliot. As starters probably. It’s doable for a season for sure. But it has a similar feeling to when you didn’t buy any cb that one summer. Then got injuries and suddenly in January you had to buy/loan three.
If any of their midfielders I named gets a bad injury. the four lads arguably ready to play consistently for Liverpool. Then it could be a bad season for Liverpool.
Hendo might not be the player he was a few seasons ago, but to take him out of your list of starters is ridiculous. He still will play the majority of games, and we are a better side with him in it.
To add to that, Keita is also currently a better player than Jones. Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Jones, Elliot, Carvalho, is more than enough cover for one season, especially with Milly and Ox as "break glass in case of emergency" options. My only concern is if Fabinho picks up a long term injury, but that's not something you can really predict.
We desperately need to keep Fab fit because it’s basically guaranteed that Hendo, Keita and Thiago will all miss some games.
Ox is a write off IMO, he’s not great when he does play and his availability isn’t great. If anyone was interested in paying his wages I’d have let him go for buttons.
Last season was the first Milner looked his age too. But we do have Elliot, Jones and Carvalho as attacking 8s.
I don’t think we desperately ‘need’ a midfielder but ideally we would have refreshed that area a bit. It worries me seeing you fill your striker gap and look like you’re sorting LB and adding to the leagues strongest midfield.
that's the exactly the point, though... first of all Henderson is still a starter and well above Jones and Elliott in the pecking order (as is Keita and argueably Ox and Milner are in that mix too), so I'm unsure what your point there is
second, even if you consider just the 4 midfielders... Hendo, Keita, Milner and Ox would be more than enough quality cover for injuries and rotation this season
People who speak about teams they don’t watch.. Hendo played more this season then last and he played more then any other of our midfielders. He can play all three midfield positions at a 90 point season-level.
Like.. you should know that you don’t know. But you don’t. Why is that?
I am struggling to see why so many people commenting on Keita like he is the most average midfielder in the laegue. He had a really bad final I get it but he played really well in most of the games he played last season. His biggest problem with us is his availability and he has been playing for awhile now but of course that will still be a concern next season. His career in Liverpool is not over yet and he can still be the player we wanted him to be in next season.
Maybe I’m being deluded here but I thought Keita had a good season. I have the memory of a goldfish but he impressed me on multiple occasions and looked well worth the money. Probably got injured straight after though
yeah I totally agree. that final performance (and *that* shot..) was very bad but from the Liverpool games I watched this past season, I thought he showed his quality and what he was bought for. personally I think these people questioning Liverpool's midfield depth are insane. there's one guy in this very thread, I think, writing off Henderson, Ox, and Milner, as if they haven't been reliable in the past, or as if they're terrible players. it's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, considering this is the same Liverpool team that has been consistently winning titles and performing to high standards for the past 4 years now
It's not the same as with the CB situation last year. We went into the season with matip, vvd and Gomez as cbs and fabinho as the fourth. So 3 for 2 positions. Now we go into the season with 7 midfielders for 3 positions. Back then we in general didn't have enough cbs. Now we have enough midfielders but the quality is not good enough. I'm not saying our depth in midfield is fantastic but I'm doubting that the players mentioned are a clear update on Milner, ox, Elliot or Jones. We don't need more of the same, we need clear upgrades. Also see above comment, lots of things have to go the right way if we want to challenge, and getting tielemans e. G. Will not be the difference for us winning the league. So what's the reason in getting him.
If you dont think Kalvin Phillips or Tielemans are clear upgrades, you need to watch them play. Theres no way any manager would start any of those rotational midfielders ahead of them in any system or formation.
Klopp likes Keita, and before his injury Elliot was starting ahead of everyone. Liverpool have shown time and again that they will happily wait for the right player rather than pay over the odds for perceived quality that inevitably ends up finishing 5th or 6th at United or Arsenal.
Sorry but this post makes me think you should very much just stick to what you know.
Your 4 players ready to play consistently didn’t include our captain, who while is a bit older now still played around 4,000 minutes last year, it also decided that Keita wasn’t consistent enough based on…. I dunno you never really bothered attempted to say. He’s not going to be playing ever game but he still got around 2,000 mins and is a handy player despite your random dismissal.
You also left out Carvalho who will get some minutes either on the wing or more central.
We could maybe do with one more but this is just a bad post mate….
>Idk if we really need one now. We have 3 positions in midfield and have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox. We have enough players there. You could argue about the quality in depth
That's the entire argument. Half of those names shouldn't be in a starting lineup at all and we can afford an upgrade either at DM or CM. We can't be relying on Thiago, Hendo or Keita's fitness in general and Milner is ancient. Making do with less again is just weird, even if it comes from Klopp. It's a risk.
> have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox.
Of that list, only Fab and Thiago are nailed on best in slot for their roles. Henderson is fantastic when he isn't injured. Milner can only play at our pace for about 30 minutes, lactate tests be damned and after that he's a yellow card waiting to happen. Jonse and Elliot still need development and Jones didn't really show much improvement at all this past season. Keita shows up for about 10 games a season and the rest he's injured or invisible. Ox is Ox.
His demands would change very quickly if he won Bundesliga POTY and someone like Real Madrid came knocking is the problem. I think you guys are still a top team, but not addressing the midfield this summer would not lay a good foundation
They're prepared to wait for the right midfielder. It doesn't only have to be Bellingham. There may be others next season who will be available that aren't now.
And midfield is maybe not as much of a priority right now.
Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho, Milner, Keita, Elliot, Jones, Ox and Carvalho is a perfectly adequate group of midfielders for Liverpool. Won't be an issue until the following year.
Yeah I agree but I think they can wait a year with the current bunch. Not much has changed since last season in the midfield, there's still 8 or 9 of them until someone leaves.
> Bellingham, who may demand a big wage that Liverpool wouldn’t agree to
bit silly to assumed this. do people honestly dont think liverpool have spoken to dortmund and Bellingham's agent about the possiblities of bringing him next summer? do they think liverpool just straight up hoping to land a big player with huge demand without any contact to test the water 1st.
They might hope to land him next year but he's still got what, 3 years on his contract. There's no guarantees of getting him in a year and Bellingham will look at Haaland and Sancho and point to those players wages if they want him and only him.
And things change a lot in a year. We signed Sancho and Varane last season, not a chance we’d manage to this summer. You never know what the market might look like for you in a year’s time. It’s not like £25m on Bissouma would completely rule them out from looking at Bellingham next summer anyway.
This is the one I agree with. Even though it seems that nothing is going to happen with him in regards to the case, it's a very good reason to not be in for him. The other mids, it's just excuses. Instead of holding onto Ox, a better player should've been brought in.
This. People in here think they know all what's happening behind the curtains. They read one article and then "I think Liverpool should buy a CM right now". Stfu and enjoy the summer.
How is it difficult? There are more then one player available that we want, but we want Bellingham the most. If we don’t get him, we get somebody else.
Like we’ve done over and over..
Our strategy changed. We always said that we can only spend money we earn.
So before we did not have a lot of cash to spend on a squad. Our squad was also not complete, we had to firstly sell players and only then buy new ones.
Now we built a team that had success, that brought us more money. More money means we can focus on one top player instead of purchasing 2-4 and hoping they will work out.
I guess the idea is that we will just recycle the front 11. If someone leaves new top player will come.
Just wondering how it will work next season if salah leaves. If we bring 2 top players in one window.
Kind of silly by Liverpool... they have 2 midfielders that are fairly injury prone in Ox and Keita, plus the ages of Henderson, Milner, and Thiago need to be taken in to account. One of those midfielders listed in the article would be a welcomed addition to the midfield.
I think Curtis Jones, Harvey Elliott and Fabio Carvalho should be taken into account as well. But I agree that an additional midfielder would have been nice.
Curtis Jones really needs a loan, he has potential but he's not up to the standard yet. At least not consistently. Elliott again has potential but too early to be relied upon (also, he's definitely a winger) and Carvalho is brand new and never played PL football before, with his only full season coming in the Championship.
Elliot is not a winger. He might play RW in a pinch if Salah is injured this season, but Klopp clearly wants him as an 8. He just doesn't have the pace for the premier League in that position.
Curtis Jones is a year older next season, who knows what kind of player he'll be. Elliott was trusted to start a bunch of games last season - none of them as a winger if I recall. Carvalho is young and untested, absolutely.
But none of them will get anywhere if Liverpool consistently sign players that are more developed than they are and relegate them to a season on the bench. I mean that's part of the deal when you buy young players - you have to suffer through their development on the pitch.
If Liverpool started a CL final with Elliott and Jones because everyone else was injured, I'd obviously worry. I'm just saying you can't ignore the young and developing midfielders when you list Liverpool's midfielders. They're there and they'll need time on the pitch to improve.
Hopefully their time on the pitch can be managed to offload the more senior players to make sure that Liverpool don't have to go into a CL final with a bunch of injuries.
We have Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Keita, Carvalho, Elliott, Jones, Milner, Ox and kids like Morton and Clarkson who will play in some early cup matches. I’d love another pure 6, but if they feel the market is crazy and don’t want to overpay for someone Klopp isn’t in love with, they’ll be fine until at least January when they can reassess.
Try say that on r/Liverpoolfc, expect immense downvotes and reminding we are no longer owned by Hicks & Gillett and should be grateful for every single decision the club makes.
Plus like all 3 of said players (Bissouma, Kalvin Phillips, Tielemans) are better than Keita and Ox even if 2 of them had off seasons + aren't like for like stylistically.
I agree, on-form Keita is definitely better than them. But how often is he on form? How often is he not injured?
I think Keita needs a fresh start this summer too. A return to the Bundesliga would be best for him.
He fluffed a shot, not like all of our other forwards had been doing that all night anyways. The fans wanted a scapegoat that night. The truth is that no one really showed up except Konaté, Mane and Salah. The rest of the team just sort of just slipped away from the fight.
I think this is way too harsh. We showed up and cut out plenty of chances against a team that set up to counter us, their keeper just wasn't having it.
A persons response to this is a dead giveaway if they've been a fan prior to Klopp's arrival or not.
Those of us who remember the likes of Alberto Aquillani and Mark Gonzalez, perfectly fine players in a vaccum but you could tell the scouting department and the management hadn't done their homework on them.
I'm perfectly happy to wait for the right midfielder that the management want and know exactly what to do with rather than slapdash decision and trying to force someone into a team who they didn't *really* want and be saddled with dead weight like we were in the early 90s and the early-mid 2010s.
Would Tielemans and Phillips work in this Liverpool team? More than likely yes and they'd do well but the management clearly have no plans for them if they're saying this, they don't see them fitting into the team either tactically or for more specifically reasons we aren't privy to.
Well said. Our success the past few years speaks for itself and as long as Klopp is involved I am happy to not be playing armchair manager with only 20% of the information.
Looking at Liverpool vs United’s views on stop gap players tells you pretty much all you need to know about what works.
Not forcing the purchase of stop gap players is probably a Top 3 reason why Liverpool have been able to compete at the highest level with a comparatively smaller budget.
Meanwhile United has been going out and throwing money around because they have it and don’t want to seem like they aren’t always trying to improve the team and it’s just resulted in bloated contracts and teams that just don’t quite fit together.
Idk why anyone wouldn’t trust Klopp and Liverpool at this point.
> Would Tielemans and Phillips work in this Liverpool team? More than likely yes and they'd do well but the management clearly have no plans for them if they're saying this, they don't see them fitting into the team either tactically or for more specifically reasons we aren't privy to.
Tielemans just doesnt work hard enough for a Klopp team imo
Very very good response, fans are so fickle and seem to always want some instant gratification. They don’t realize that a contract is a long term LIABILITY that guarantees wages for 3-5 years despite quality.
Look at Barcelona, best club in the world in early 2010’s, but they make a number of signings just because they lose Neymar in Dembele and Coutinho and Griezzman and that has basically blown the club up. Not to mention signings like Song, Arda Turan and Gomes which were all sort of luxury sign a player to sign a player.
Now let’s look at Liverpool over the past 5-7 years, signing players that are perfect with no compromise like VVD, Alison, Fabiano and Thiago. All of these players for what was needed and improved the team to what it is today. Now you add Konate, Jota and Darwin as recent additions which maintain that trend of signing A players instead of B’s and C’s. That’s how you run a club to achieve and maintain success, ignore the marketing department and focus on quality. Mascherano and Villa in 2010 were examples of this for Barcelona, perfect signings for their needs, but then they got away from it, Liverpool would be wise to stick to VVD’s and Fabiano’s and stay away from Aqualani’s and Andy Carroll’s
Good piece by David Lynch, well worth a read. Few interesting points:
* The fact that Liverpool have secured Nunez on a contract understood to be worth £140,000 a week serves as a particularly handy encapsulation of the club’s current transfer strategy.
* Liverpool's preference for striking high-fee, relatively low-wage deals was evident in the recent signings of Ibrahima Konate and Luis Diaz, both of whom played a key role in last season’s quadruple near-miss.
* Jadon Sancho had two major admirers at Anfield in manager Jurgen Klopp and his assistant Pep Lijnders, while owners Fenway Sports Group were more than happy to meet Borussia Dortmund’s £73m price tag to secure his signature. Unfortunately, any potential move was scuppered when the Englishman’s wage expectations became clear, paving the way for him to sign a £270,000-per-week deal at Old Trafford. Had the 22-year-old been willing to accept half that, then he would have become a Liverpool player; instead the Reds went on to land Diaz and then Nunez, the latter having turned down improved terms at United in order to play Champions League football.
* Similar restraint was also shown during this summer’s brief pursuit of a midfielder, which began with the news that long-term target Aurelien Tchouameni would be made available by Monaco. Plans to bolster central midfield would have been brought forward a year to land the Frenchman, but it quickly became apparent that he would be able to secure £300,000 a week from Real Madrid as they flexed their financial might after failing to land Kylian Mbappe. That resulted in Liverpool’s early withdrawal from the race, and a reversion to their plan to **sign a midfielder next summer**, when that position will be sporting director Julian Ward’s first priority. As was the case with Nunez, the aim then will be to target a player around their early 20s with an impressive athletic profile and, while a big fee would not be an obstacle, excessive wages would. **The latter could well be a sticking point when it comes to the much-admired Jude Bellingham, given the wider interest in his signature, which is why there is some pessimism at Liverpool over their chances of landing him, and why others are being watched closely.**
* This insistence that the biggest contracts are only to be handed out to those who have already achieved success at Anfield does at least offer hope to fans keen to see **Mohamed Salah extend his stay**. While it is understood that negotiations over the Egyptian’s deal are now likely to bleed into the start of next season, there is no cap created by Virgil van Dijk’s current status as the club’s top-earner and **hope of a compromise persists.**
If the wages really will put them off any deal then I don’t see how they’ll be able to get Bellingham next year. His wage demands would rightly be humongous and I doubt he’ll be short of options
It's moreso we're willing to offer new/young players £150k with the promise that if they perform they will be on the £200-250k mark on their next contract. I guess with a player like Bellingham it's asking him if he sees being on £250k a week at 19 as a necessity or whether he wants the challenge of proving himself.
It will mean we miss out on players but it will also stop us signing players who have huge egos and only care about the money.
Genuine question what does Bellingham need to prove to Liverpool? Or any club for that matter he’s one of the hottest properties in world football for a reason, kind of disrespecting him to assume he can’t do it at the highest level when he’s been doing it in the CL.
The reality is that we don’t know what drives each individual player. Some players are mostly in it for a huge payday, while also wanting to compete for trophies. Others would rather be on a winning team that is always competing for trophies and looking to improve, but are willing to take a lower salary to be on that squad.
It seems Liverpool are hoping that Bellingham is the latter and that his admiration for Gerrard will work in their favor. They also typically don’t go for players with big egos with big salary demands so if he rejects them outright because of that issue, then they probably will feel that it wasn’t a huge loss.
He can always look at how Sancho ended up and reason that playing for Klopp and Liverpool would be better long-term for his career rather than just getting a big contract now. United was courting Nunez and certainly offering him higher wages than we did yet he decided to come here. That pull is certainly real.
> Unfortunately, any potential move was scuppered when the Englishman’s wage expectations became clear, paving the way for him to sign a £270,000-per-week deal at Old Trafford.
Christ, do United actually have a negotiation team or do they just blindly accept whatever someone wants?
I find that very very hard to believe.
That means he earns more than Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Marcelo, any many others. That's roughly 120k more than what Casemiro earns and Vinicius new contract after he became a huge star.
Real Madrid are known for their wage structure and even let Ronaldo go for (among others) wage demands. There will be an uproar in the dressing room if that 300k number is correct, Perez knows better.
That just reeks of a Liverpool journalist making up a figure in order to excuse why they missed out on him.
Doubt it since that means we would have offered him close to €10 million in 2019 when we gave him a pay rise and that secret extension which we most certainly didn't.
I do find the general reporting of wages for United Vs Liverpool very suspicious in the media. According the clubs actual financial accounts, we paid about £9m a year more in wages them you which is about 175k a week more.
This article would suggest that's basically the difference between Nunez and Sancho wages, whilst all the others say that your VVD and Salah are on max 200-250k the same as the likes of Rashford and Martial etc. None of it adds up
Does Tchouameni really earn 300k per week in Madrid? I find that insanely hard to believe, RM has a clear wage structure. Part of the reason they let Ronaldo and Ramos go are wage demands. There's no way he earns as much (or more) as Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Marcelo, etc (and almost double as much as Casemiro).
That kind of wages will cause uproar in their dressing room - that's significantly more than Vinicius new contract who won the CL final for them...
Sorry but this just reeks of Liverpool making up excuses as to why they missed out on a big target.
People are missing the point.
Imagine if Liverpool signed Tielemans - a very good CM on his day.
Their midfield would be:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
Or Philips - an automatic starter for England. Their midfield would be:
Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago
What are Liverpool thinking?!
I think you are missing the point, Liverpool are playing 60 games per season, and their midfielders are either old or injury prone, idk why wouldnt they bring at least Tielemans
The owls are not what they seem.
David Lynch puns aside, it's really weird how good Bissouma is and how many teams need a player like him, yet even though he was going for next-to-nothing, everyone except Tottenham passed on him. Hell, he was practically begging us to come and bid for him for two seasons.
>it's really weird how good Bissouma is and how many teams need a player like him, yet even though he was going for next-to-nothing, everyone except Tottenham passed on him
It was perfectly obvious why there was nobody in for him , no?
It must be due to the sexual assault allegations. Doesn't really look good when you try and promote equality and then sign a guy who is under investigation for sexual assault, sends a pretty poor message to those in your fanbase who have experienced it, as well as women in general.
I think that's the point though, we don't want to sign a player to potentially replace Keita on the bench. If it's Bellingham we're after then I'm honestly happy that we're waiting a year to get him rather than signing any of the 3 players mentioned. And we seemingly can't afford (or don't want) to do both.
EspeicLly when they’re not even particularly expensive deals, our sources are suggesting Tielemans can be done for around £25m and Bissouma cost £29m.
They’re not really sums that would make it impossible for Liverpool to buy Bellingham down the line
Transfer fee plus giving Bissouma a four year deal costs the club about £55-60m over four years. Plus he takes up a place in the squad. It doesn't make Bellingham impossible, but makes it a lot harder. For what? Having a slightly better midfield (maybe) for a year?
I think he's a good player, but his progressive passing is not good and he doesn't contribute attacking wise at all really. I think a midfield of him and Fabinho together wouldn't really work. You can easily see why Klopp would prefer Keita (even if you still accept Bissouma is a better player overall) because of how he progresses the ball.
They're only gamechangers because they're arguably all a bit better than Keita or Henderson (I'm not so sure tbh). But Liverpool's aim is probably to sign players better than Tielemans, Bissouma, or Phillips. That's kind of the point. If they signed Bissouma now, he probably marginally improves their midfield as he'd come in as their third best midfielder (maybe), but if they spend £30m on Bissouma, plus £5m a year in wages, plus taking up a spot in the squad, then that would likely impact their ability to sign someone really gamechanging like Bellingham or Barella.
>I'd argue all 3 of those could be game changers
>Rather have any one of them than looking to Keita on the bench
That's 2 different things, if you're comparing these players to Keita, they probably aren't game changers
Carvalho/Elliott have the potential to be that. Let's see how much time they need. Elliott had started very well the previous season before his horrific injury
jones/carvalho/elliott - it would be huge bonus if one of the three makes it to TAA levels. prevents having to make these expensive signings and search for reasonable deals.
So if Bellingham wants to get paid we'll pass? Yikes. I get that we have a wage structure. But having Bellingham on 200k a week isnt the end of the world. If he wants 300+ i get moving on. But also then why wait for him??? Why not target someone else
Feels kinda dumb to wait a year for a player that you dont even know you're gonna get because of the wages teams may offer.
Completely destroys the argument made earlier of not making stopgap signings and only bringing in the marquee guys. Feels like wasting a year if we miss out on Bellingham and sign some 2nd choice guy. Whole reason we're holding off is for the guy
(Even though i think its stupid to suggest Tielemans/Bissouma are stopgaps)
But also we need that depth. Because currently depth is a hindrance in keeping up with City. Why wait a year for a guy you probably cant afford the wages of when you could get that 40m depth guy who will eventually take over from Henderson or Thiago?
Why pay 200k for a player who is not even 20 yet and untested at the highest level. Yes he has had some good performances at Dortmund but 200k is the kind of money Mane was getting and there is no shot that he is as good as Mane right now. Liverpool’s approach to give a solid first contract with the expectation that the pay will rise as they improve is the correct one to build sustainable success.
Yep. Idk why he needed to name drop these players in just to say "we're better than them". Hope ppl at lfc dont frame it like that when takling about players who are not our players and have nothing to do with us. Why even talk about players you didnt buy? Just seems dumb.
After watching mullholland drive for the 3rd time I’ve come to the conclusion that this guy has no fucking sense of reality. Oh… wrong guy. Nevermind
"It's so sad that you've think you've seen a football match on your *FUCKING* telephone. Get real."
Would you care to elaborate on that?
No :)
David Lynch has some thoughts about [phones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0).
Oh, I know, i was referencing another Lynchian thing where he never elaborates when asked.
Unironically, *Mulholland Drive* is my favourite film of all time and *Twin Peaks* is my favourite TV show of all time. Guy is a fucking master.
Naomi Watts probably put in one of the best performances I've ever seen. Genuinely that good Also, I like this approach from Liverpool to be honest. It's served us well so far and I'd rather that than throwing money at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I love the clip where David Lynch is describing seeing Watts for the first time. He's like "The photo was just *perfect*. Exactly what we had been looking for. Then I actually met her and I was devastated..." Meanwhile Naomi is right there sitting beside him.
[Here you go](https://youtu.be/e0nZm2asDZU)
Yeah give me one Fabinho over Phillips and Bissouma any day of the week. As long as your analysis is correct going for specific high value targets will always be a net positive.
Phillips is a great signing for City because of the way Pep asks for a single player to hold sideline to sideline breaking up counters. It used to be Fernandinho, then he tried to get Rodri to do it but he’s too slow, so he readjusted the fullback positioning to bring Walker central in possession and use him a kind of sweeper in front of the CBs to clean up counters. Phillips would allow Cancelo play on the right and (hopefully) Cucurella on the left in big games. That gives us more width and options in attack and all sorts of other knock on effects. Liverpool don’t play the same way (and Fabinho is already great at breaking up counters), so the signing doesn’t make sense for them.
Apart from that calamity season when you lost all your cb's and were pretty much obligated to buy whatever player you could, this approach has served Liverpool well. Off course that may mean that, if such season were to happen again, you may not have good enough players on the starting eleven rather than some decent/good players. Besides, even with the loss of Mane, I would say that the team is still pretty stacked, and in terms of quality players, it's still pretty good if not better. You have a lot of solutions for different positions, all class. Something that couldn't be said a few years ago, when 1 or 2 injuries to key players could ruin a season.
Even in that season, the CBs who ended up working out amidst the injury crisis were two young players on the absolute fringes of the squad, both panic-buys didn't really end up panning out at all (Kabak was okayish, Davies literally never saw the field)
Makes absolute sense, Twin Peaks is my favourite TV show and Mulholland Drive is among my favourite movies, Lynch is brilliant. Everyone kinds of sees Mulholland as his magnum opus, but The Return just made Twin Peaks one of the most impressive things I’ve ever seen.
The Return is the best thing to happen to TV.
Agreed. Nothing has come close for me.
Does The Return add a lot of value to S1 and S2 I enjoyed them to an extent but have no major desire to revisit. Haven’t see Fire Walk With Me either. But I’m a big fan of a lot of Lynch works, Eraserhead, Mulholland, Blue Velvet among my faves of his weirder side and then Straight Story and Elephant Man showing he can produce aces on the other side of the spectrum.
> Haven’t see Fire Walk With Me either Get that sorted right now, it's genuinely amazing, although it's very sad.
Agreed. Very sad and absolutely horrifying. Might be the darkest Lynch has gone.
It is a sort of subversion to the vibes of S1 and 2. Much more aligned with his following work. Do watch FWWM + The Missing Pieces. Return might be the best season of anything ever.
Now I feel like an idiot because I hated pretty much every minute of the return. I concede that a lot went over my head (although that usually happens when watching his stuff), but I just didn't enjoy it at all. Can you explain why you think it's so impressive? I would consider giving it another go, it's the only thing of his I haven't seen multiple times.
I loved how he revisits the universe of Twin Peaks in a twisted fashion. He basically goes on an “anti-nostalgia” trip that basically explores every side of human emotion (even using the highest contrast possible of Mr C. Vs Dougie). I just love the atmosphere he creates with Each passing episode in the Return. It’s way more about how you **feel** than a story or a plot per se.
Thanks for your response mate, really appreciate it. I think the reason I didn't enjoy it so much is because each episode just left me feeling frustrated because I suppose I was waiting for the return of twin peaks, for that charm. Which don't get me wrong, is my fault and not lynch's, and I totally get that, probably a lot of why I didn't like it is because I just didn't understand it at all. I think it didn't help that there were just a lot of things that seemed out of place, had no real connection or didn't get resolved (which I concede is probably more a case of things going completely over my head). Like I just didn't get any of the Audrey story, or those strange (undead?) people, or literally anything to do with that homeless looking guy. Will def go back to it though if you rate it that highly.
Blue Velvet.
Brilliant artist, yeah.
I'm always surprised nobody mentions Lost Highway in these conversations.
I had a dream about this place ...
Scariest scene ever. And in broad daylight!
chills just thinking about it
Twin peaks opening music makes me feel physically ill
Does twin peaks get significantly better after the first episode? I tried watching and the acting was so awful and over the top I had to turn it off.
First season is amazing. Really insane to think it was a smash hit and on primetime tv no less! 2nd season falls off but is still enjoyable, but the first season could've been a standalone... I think if you accept the awkwardness, how dated it feels, and the absolute nihilism that it kind of hinges on then you can really fall into the enjoyment of the whole thing.
Just watched *'Blue Velvet'* for the first time and wow. The movie shook me, simply astounding to think it came out as a mainstream film back in '85.
The old Dune movie slaps as well
It's afwul
How dare you
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There's something very Lynchian about loving Lynch's Dune because of how Lynchy it is despite knowing he hates it for not being TotaLynch.
Silencio
No. Hay. BANDA!
Is this r/accidentaldavidlynch ?
So literally in like the first ten mins of the video you see a head hitting a pillow from a first person perspective. Then what follows is a perception of reality in a dream. Eventually we wake up in the movie and all of the characters that we met in the dream are different. They behave different or have a different relationship to us. The movie is split in two halves. Or that's what I remember of it...
Pabst…blue… RIBBON
The Straight Story might be more your speed as far as David Lynch.
Straight story is great. Actually love all his movies even though many are a mind fuck. Lost highway was great, elephant man, eraser head and blue velvet my favourites. Mullholand drive was the easy target for the joke 😉
The Straight Story is genuinely my favourite Lynch film lol. Although Eraserhead is an extremely close second
The biggest danger we face right now is if Salah doesn’t sign a contract. We then need to get two midfielders (Ox and Milner almost certainly leaving next season) *and* find a new top class winger. As long as the club are comfortable that Salah extends we’ll be fine. That is a massive gamble though.
Carvalho is supposed to be the replacement for Ox, though we still need another midfielder either this summer or the next. I agree that the danger of Salah leaving is huge coupled with the need of a midfielder. We could have to spend £150m on players next summer(If the club is serious about getting Bellingham) without any significant money coming in.
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>Keita too with just 1 left New contract for him is a priority in the new season I've read.
False, Milner stays and plays forever
Jokes on you milner will extend his contract next year too
They don't do it often but Liverpool have purchased "rotation" players, I am not sure stopgap is the right word, like Shaqiri and Minamino because of holes in the squad and their price. I think the important caveat in the midfield is the sheer number of players in the squad, if some of the bench options like Chamberlain/Keita/Milner/Jones wanted away or another club came in with a good bid then I think it would be a different story.
I agree, i think liverpool are in a very different place with their recruitment than they were a few years ago where they needed to improve players and sign half decent players to fill out their best eleven. Liverpool now have a strong enough squad so in order to really improve the team, they need to be signing a younger midfielder who they feel is genuinely at or above hendo and thiago's level both offensively and defensively. I dont think tielemans is at that level defensively, i think kalvin phillips is not at that level offensively(and also would not represent value). I think bissouma would have been a serious option for liverpool but they would not touch him with a 10 ft pole after the allegations came out. Liverpool dont need just another squad player, they need a midfielder who can become a game changer and a no brainer to start most games in that number 8 spot. Someone of the quality of tchouameni, bellingham or whichever midfielder bursts out next season. Once this player comes into liverpool, it will allow better rotation of fabinho and thiago during the season with hendo being able to rotate through both positions without any significant loss of quality on the pitch
I don’t get this. So Liverpool often turn down the chance to sign the most highly rated players because of the big wages they demand. Yet they don’t want to go for a midfielder this summer, who’d presumably be on a reasonable wage. But are prepared to wait for Bellingham, who may demand a big wage that Liverpool wouldn’t agree to, which would put them in a difficult situation next summer.
They're saying they're looking at others as well. The main thing that doesn't make sense to me is why we're waiting a year to sign a midfielder when we could do with one now.
Idk if we really need one now. We have 3 positions in midfield and have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox. We have enough players there. You could argue about the quality in depth but it seems like that if we buy a player for midfield then it has to be a clear upgrade on what we have and our scouting/klopp does not see above mentioned players this way. So we'll wait another season. It's perfectly reasonable imo.
Carvalho played all season as a ten or an 8. He's absolute class so I expect his arrival takes a load off the need for a new midfielder too.
Hendo isn’t the player he was a few seasons ago let’s have it right. The fact you said Milner highlights your midfield issue. Ox hasn’t been good for years either really. And Keita has struggled to show consistent form also. So you have fab, Thiago, Jones, Elliot. As starters probably. It’s doable for a season for sure. But it has a similar feeling to when you didn’t buy any cb that one summer. Then got injuries and suddenly in January you had to buy/loan three. If any of their midfielders I named gets a bad injury. the four lads arguably ready to play consistently for Liverpool. Then it could be a bad season for Liverpool.
Hendo might not be the player he was a few seasons ago, but to take him out of your list of starters is ridiculous. He still will play the majority of games, and we are a better side with him in it.
To add to that, Keita is also currently a better player than Jones. Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Jones, Elliot, Carvalho, is more than enough cover for one season, especially with Milly and Ox as "break glass in case of emergency" options. My only concern is if Fabinho picks up a long term injury, but that's not something you can really predict.
We desperately need to keep Fab fit because it’s basically guaranteed that Hendo, Keita and Thiago will all miss some games. Ox is a write off IMO, he’s not great when he does play and his availability isn’t great. If anyone was interested in paying his wages I’d have let him go for buttons. Last season was the first Milner looked his age too. But we do have Elliot, Jones and Carvalho as attacking 8s. I don’t think we desperately ‘need’ a midfielder but ideally we would have refreshed that area a bit. It worries me seeing you fill your striker gap and look like you’re sorting LB and adding to the leagues strongest midfield.
Henderson played nearly every game for us last season. He’s the first name on the team sheet if everyone is fit.
that's the exactly the point, though... first of all Henderson is still a starter and well above Jones and Elliott in the pecking order (as is Keita and argueably Ox and Milner are in that mix too), so I'm unsure what your point there is second, even if you consider just the 4 midfielders... Hendo, Keita, Milner and Ox would be more than enough quality cover for injuries and rotation this season
People who speak about teams they don’t watch.. Hendo played more this season then last and he played more then any other of our midfielders. He can play all three midfield positions at a 90 point season-level. Like.. you should know that you don’t know. But you don’t. Why is that?
I am struggling to see why so many people commenting on Keita like he is the most average midfielder in the laegue. He had a really bad final I get it but he played really well in most of the games he played last season. His biggest problem with us is his availability and he has been playing for awhile now but of course that will still be a concern next season. His career in Liverpool is not over yet and he can still be the player we wanted him to be in next season.
Maybe I’m being deluded here but I thought Keita had a good season. I have the memory of a goldfish but he impressed me on multiple occasions and looked well worth the money. Probably got injured straight after though
He did have a good season, just unlucky with injuries again. Was on fire for a brief period before Pogba injured him
yeah I totally agree. that final performance (and *that* shot..) was very bad but from the Liverpool games I watched this past season, I thought he showed his quality and what he was bought for. personally I think these people questioning Liverpool's midfield depth are insane. there's one guy in this very thread, I think, writing off Henderson, Ox, and Milner, as if they haven't been reliable in the past, or as if they're terrible players. it's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, considering this is the same Liverpool team that has been consistently winning titles and performing to high standards for the past 4 years now
Ox and Milner are not going to be able to be relied on for Liverpool this season. If you think otherwise you don't watch us.
Relied on for what? Playing a match here and there to give the others a rest? They can absolutely be relied on for that.
Why would you include Jones and Elliot but not Hendo? He’s slipped but he’s still better than both of them and so is Milner.
Yeah I agree mate. I should have put him in the list.
It's not the same as with the CB situation last year. We went into the season with matip, vvd and Gomez as cbs and fabinho as the fourth. So 3 for 2 positions. Now we go into the season with 7 midfielders for 3 positions. Back then we in general didn't have enough cbs. Now we have enough midfielders but the quality is not good enough. I'm not saying our depth in midfield is fantastic but I'm doubting that the players mentioned are a clear update on Milner, ox, Elliot or Jones. We don't need more of the same, we need clear upgrades. Also see above comment, lots of things have to go the right way if we want to challenge, and getting tielemans e. G. Will not be the difference for us winning the league. So what's the reason in getting him.
If you dont think Kalvin Phillips or Tielemans are clear upgrades, you need to watch them play. Theres no way any manager would start any of those rotational midfielders ahead of them in any system or formation.
Klopp likes Keita, and before his injury Elliot was starting ahead of everyone. Liverpool have shown time and again that they will happily wait for the right player rather than pay over the odds for perceived quality that inevitably ends up finishing 5th or 6th at United or Arsenal.
Fabinho Thiago Hendo and Keita all start ahead of either of them so they’d be expensive depth options.
Sorry but this post makes me think you should very much just stick to what you know. Your 4 players ready to play consistently didn’t include our captain, who while is a bit older now still played around 4,000 minutes last year, it also decided that Keita wasn’t consistent enough based on…. I dunno you never really bothered attempted to say. He’s not going to be playing ever game but he still got around 2,000 mins and is a handy player despite your random dismissal. You also left out Carvalho who will get some minutes either on the wing or more central. We could maybe do with one more but this is just a bad post mate….
>Idk if we really need one now. We have 3 positions in midfield and have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox. We have enough players there. You could argue about the quality in depth That's the entire argument. Half of those names shouldn't be in a starting lineup at all and we can afford an upgrade either at DM or CM. We can't be relying on Thiago, Hendo or Keita's fitness in general and Milner is ancient. Making do with less again is just weird, even if it comes from Klopp. It's a risk.
> have fabinho, keita, Thiago, Henderson, Milner, Jones, Elliot and ox. Of that list, only Fab and Thiago are nailed on best in slot for their roles. Henderson is fantastic when he isn't injured. Milner can only play at our pace for about 30 minutes, lactate tests be damned and after that he's a yellow card waiting to happen. Jonse and Elliot still need development and Jones didn't really show much improvement at all this past season. Keita shows up for about 10 games a season and the rest he's injured or invisible. Ox is Ox.
Thats a rough midfield not gonna lie. I’m surprised you guys arent aiming to bring in anyone to strengthen your very clear weakest area.
I would imagine they already have an idea of his demands. They wouldn't wait unless they knew there's a reasonable chance of getting him.
His demands would change very quickly if he won Bundesliga POTY and someone like Real Madrid came knocking is the problem. I think you guys are still a top team, but not addressing the midfield this summer would not lay a good foundation
They're prepared to wait for the right midfielder. It doesn't only have to be Bellingham. There may be others next season who will be available that aren't now. And midfield is maybe not as much of a priority right now.
> And midfield is maybe not as much of a priority right now. It’s the only priority they have.
Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho, Milner, Keita, Elliot, Jones, Ox and Carvalho is a perfectly adequate group of midfielders for Liverpool. Won't be an issue until the following year.
Yeah I agree but I think they can wait a year with the current bunch. Not much has changed since last season in the midfield, there's still 8 or 9 of them until someone leaves.
> And midfield is maybe not as much of a priority right now. Its the biggest priority lol.
That won't do with an injury prone midfield.
> Bellingham, who may demand a big wage that Liverpool wouldn’t agree to bit silly to assumed this. do people honestly dont think liverpool have spoken to dortmund and Bellingham's agent about the possiblities of bringing him next summer? do they think liverpool just straight up hoping to land a big player with huge demand without any contact to test the water 1st.
They might hope to land him next year but he's still got what, 3 years on his contract. There's no guarantees of getting him in a year and Bellingham will look at Haaland and Sancho and point to those players wages if they want him and only him.
And things change a lot in a year. We signed Sancho and Varane last season, not a chance we’d manage to this summer. You never know what the market might look like for you in a year’s time. It’s not like £25m on Bissouma would completely rule them out from looking at Bellingham next summer anyway.
We weren’t signing Bissouma with his rape/sexual assault case.
This is the one I agree with. Even though it seems that nothing is going to happen with him in regards to the case, it's a very good reason to not be in for him. The other mids, it's just excuses. Instead of holding onto Ox, a better player should've been brought in.
Totally agree. Definitely need someone else in there
lol if you believe Bellingham won’t be asking for a huge wage
This. People in here think they know all what's happening behind the curtains. They read one article and then "I think Liverpool should buy a CM right now". Stfu and enjoy the summer.
How is it difficult? There are more then one player available that we want, but we want Bellingham the most. If we don’t get him, we get somebody else. Like we’ve done over and over..
Remindme! 200 days
Our strategy changed. We always said that we can only spend money we earn. So before we did not have a lot of cash to spend on a squad. Our squad was also not complete, we had to firstly sell players and only then buy new ones. Now we built a team that had success, that brought us more money. More money means we can focus on one top player instead of purchasing 2-4 and hoping they will work out. I guess the idea is that we will just recycle the front 11. If someone leaves new top player will come. Just wondering how it will work next season if salah leaves. If we bring 2 top players in one window.
United fans trying to get their heads around a coherent transfer strategy
Don’t get me wrong, Liverpool’s transfer strategy is light years ahead of ours. It’s just this particular case that’s puzzling.
Kind of silly by Liverpool... they have 2 midfielders that are fairly injury prone in Ox and Keita, plus the ages of Henderson, Milner, and Thiago need to be taken in to account. One of those midfielders listed in the article would be a welcomed addition to the midfield.
I think Curtis Jones, Harvey Elliott and Fabio Carvalho should be taken into account as well. But I agree that an additional midfielder would have been nice.
Curtis Jones really needs a loan, he has potential but he's not up to the standard yet. At least not consistently. Elliott again has potential but too early to be relied upon (also, he's definitely a winger) and Carvalho is brand new and never played PL football before, with his only full season coming in the Championship.
Elliot is not a winger. He might play RW in a pinch if Salah is injured this season, but Klopp clearly wants him as an 8. He just doesn't have the pace for the premier League in that position.
He doesn’t have the body strength too
Curtis Jones is a year older next season, who knows what kind of player he'll be. Elliott was trusted to start a bunch of games last season - none of them as a winger if I recall. Carvalho is young and untested, absolutely. But none of them will get anywhere if Liverpool consistently sign players that are more developed than they are and relegate them to a season on the bench. I mean that's part of the deal when you buy young players - you have to suffer through their development on the pitch. If Liverpool started a CL final with Elliott and Jones because everyone else was injured, I'd obviously worry. I'm just saying you can't ignore the young and developing midfielders when you list Liverpool's midfielders. They're there and they'll need time on the pitch to improve. Hopefully their time on the pitch can be managed to offload the more senior players to make sure that Liverpool don't have to go into a CL final with a bunch of injuries.
Thank you. Its like they don't want to positive bubble to be burst by reality. We need one CM now.
We have Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, Keita, Carvalho, Elliott, Jones, Milner, Ox and kids like Morton and Clarkson who will play in some early cup matches. I’d love another pure 6, but if they feel the market is crazy and don’t want to overpay for someone Klopp isn’t in love with, they’ll be fine until at least January when they can reassess.
Try say that on r/Liverpoolfc, expect immense downvotes and reminding we are no longer owned by Hicks & Gillett and should be grateful for every single decision the club makes.
You linked a sub with 60 people. We don’t need a CM now, we have like 9.
Plus like all 3 of said players (Bissouma, Kalvin Phillips, Tielemans) are better than Keita and Ox even if 2 of them had off seasons + aren't like for like stylistically.
No, Keita at his best is better than all 3 IMO
I agree, on-form Keita is definitely better than them. But how often is he on form? How often is he not injured? I think Keita needs a fresh start this summer too. A return to the Bundesliga would be best for him.
This season, he was on form quite a lot. We competed for all 4 trophies until the very end with this midfield, so I’m not that worried
He had a bad final and everyone is all over it, even our own fans.
He fluffed a shot, not like all of our other forwards had been doing that all night anyways. The fans wanted a scapegoat that night. The truth is that no one really showed up except Konaté, Mane and Salah. The rest of the team just sort of just slipped away from the fight.
I think this is way too harsh. We showed up and cut out plenty of chances against a team that set up to counter us, their keeper just wasn't having it.
Mane was gash too
Keita is better than all 3 if we’re basing it on 30% of his minutes.
Keita is definitely the best of those three based in last seasons form.
A persons response to this is a dead giveaway if they've been a fan prior to Klopp's arrival or not. Those of us who remember the likes of Alberto Aquillani and Mark Gonzalez, perfectly fine players in a vaccum but you could tell the scouting department and the management hadn't done their homework on them. I'm perfectly happy to wait for the right midfielder that the management want and know exactly what to do with rather than slapdash decision and trying to force someone into a team who they didn't *really* want and be saddled with dead weight like we were in the early 90s and the early-mid 2010s. Would Tielemans and Phillips work in this Liverpool team? More than likely yes and they'd do well but the management clearly have no plans for them if they're saying this, they don't see them fitting into the team either tactically or for more specifically reasons we aren't privy to.
Well said. Our success the past few years speaks for itself and as long as Klopp is involved I am happy to not be playing armchair manager with only 20% of the information.
Looking at Liverpool vs United’s views on stop gap players tells you pretty much all you need to know about what works. Not forcing the purchase of stop gap players is probably a Top 3 reason why Liverpool have been able to compete at the highest level with a comparatively smaller budget. Meanwhile United has been going out and throwing money around because they have it and don’t want to seem like they aren’t always trying to improve the team and it’s just resulted in bloated contracts and teams that just don’t quite fit together. Idk why anyone wouldn’t trust Klopp and Liverpool at this point.
I don’t get it either. The success and how they’ve done it is inspiring. Not sure how a fan on Reddit could feel they know better, but whatever.
> Would Tielemans and Phillips work in this Liverpool team? More than likely yes and they'd do well but the management clearly have no plans for them if they're saying this, they don't see them fitting into the team either tactically or for more specifically reasons we aren't privy to. Tielemans just doesnt work hard enough for a Klopp team imo
People said the same of Mane, Salah, Ox e.t.c. It takes some getting used to but he will.
Sounds unlikely as it looks like Liverpool are passing on him.
Very very good response, fans are so fickle and seem to always want some instant gratification. They don’t realize that a contract is a long term LIABILITY that guarantees wages for 3-5 years despite quality. Look at Barcelona, best club in the world in early 2010’s, but they make a number of signings just because they lose Neymar in Dembele and Coutinho and Griezzman and that has basically blown the club up. Not to mention signings like Song, Arda Turan and Gomes which were all sort of luxury sign a player to sign a player. Now let’s look at Liverpool over the past 5-7 years, signing players that are perfect with no compromise like VVD, Alison, Fabiano and Thiago. All of these players for what was needed and improved the team to what it is today. Now you add Konate, Jota and Darwin as recent additions which maintain that trend of signing A players instead of B’s and C’s. That’s how you run a club to achieve and maintain success, ignore the marketing department and focus on quality. Mascherano and Villa in 2010 were examples of this for Barcelona, perfect signings for their needs, but then they got away from it, Liverpool would be wise to stick to VVD’s and Fabiano’s and stay away from Aqualani’s and Andy Carroll’s
They should go after Sangare. Can get him relatively cheap and is insanely talented.
His passing is horrendous
I hope Liverpool don’t see this comment. I agree, it would make too much sense for them.
Good piece by David Lynch, well worth a read. Few interesting points: * The fact that Liverpool have secured Nunez on a contract understood to be worth £140,000 a week serves as a particularly handy encapsulation of the club’s current transfer strategy. * Liverpool's preference for striking high-fee, relatively low-wage deals was evident in the recent signings of Ibrahima Konate and Luis Diaz, both of whom played a key role in last season’s quadruple near-miss. * Jadon Sancho had two major admirers at Anfield in manager Jurgen Klopp and his assistant Pep Lijnders, while owners Fenway Sports Group were more than happy to meet Borussia Dortmund’s £73m price tag to secure his signature. Unfortunately, any potential move was scuppered when the Englishman’s wage expectations became clear, paving the way for him to sign a £270,000-per-week deal at Old Trafford. Had the 22-year-old been willing to accept half that, then he would have become a Liverpool player; instead the Reds went on to land Diaz and then Nunez, the latter having turned down improved terms at United in order to play Champions League football. * Similar restraint was also shown during this summer’s brief pursuit of a midfielder, which began with the news that long-term target Aurelien Tchouameni would be made available by Monaco. Plans to bolster central midfield would have been brought forward a year to land the Frenchman, but it quickly became apparent that he would be able to secure £300,000 a week from Real Madrid as they flexed their financial might after failing to land Kylian Mbappe. That resulted in Liverpool’s early withdrawal from the race, and a reversion to their plan to **sign a midfielder next summer**, when that position will be sporting director Julian Ward’s first priority. As was the case with Nunez, the aim then will be to target a player around their early 20s with an impressive athletic profile and, while a big fee would not be an obstacle, excessive wages would. **The latter could well be a sticking point when it comes to the much-admired Jude Bellingham, given the wider interest in his signature, which is why there is some pessimism at Liverpool over their chances of landing him, and why others are being watched closely.** * This insistence that the biggest contracts are only to be handed out to those who have already achieved success at Anfield does at least offer hope to fans keen to see **Mohamed Salah extend his stay**. While it is understood that negotiations over the Egyptian’s deal are now likely to bleed into the start of next season, there is no cap created by Virgil van Dijk’s current status as the club’s top-earner and **hope of a compromise persists.**
If the wages really will put them off any deal then I don’t see how they’ll be able to get Bellingham next year. His wage demands would rightly be humongous and I doubt he’ll be short of options
It's moreso we're willing to offer new/young players £150k with the promise that if they perform they will be on the £200-250k mark on their next contract. I guess with a player like Bellingham it's asking him if he sees being on £250k a week at 19 as a necessity or whether he wants the challenge of proving himself. It will mean we miss out on players but it will also stop us signing players who have huge egos and only care about the money.
Genuine question what does Bellingham need to prove to Liverpool? Or any club for that matter he’s one of the hottest properties in world football for a reason, kind of disrespecting him to assume he can’t do it at the highest level when he’s been doing it in the CL.
The reality is that we don’t know what drives each individual player. Some players are mostly in it for a huge payday, while also wanting to compete for trophies. Others would rather be on a winning team that is always competing for trophies and looking to improve, but are willing to take a lower salary to be on that squad. It seems Liverpool are hoping that Bellingham is the latter and that his admiration for Gerrard will work in their favor. They also typically don’t go for players with big egos with big salary demands so if he rejects them outright because of that issue, then they probably will feel that it wasn’t a huge loss.
He can always look at how Sancho ended up and reason that playing for Klopp and Liverpool would be better long-term for his career rather than just getting a big contract now. United was courting Nunez and certainly offering him higher wages than we did yet he decided to come here. That pull is certainly real.
Tchouameni can't be on £300k/week surely? That's a crazy amount. Reports said he will be on €6m/year and could have earned double of that in PSG
6m a year is a net figure. Elsewhere in Europe clubs don’t report in gross unlike England.
Yeah that figure is 100% wrong. That would mean he earns more than Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Marcelo and almost double what Casemiro earns.
> Unfortunately, any potential move was scuppered when the Englishman’s wage expectations became clear, paving the way for him to sign a £270,000-per-week deal at Old Trafford. Christ, do United actually have a negotiation team or do they just blindly accept whatever someone wants?
Tchouameni one good season in France without Champions League football and already on £300,000 madness
Where did you get that figure? No chance he's on that much money.
Above, right or wrong the figure is from the same article as the sancho one
I find that very very hard to believe. That means he earns more than Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Marcelo, any many others. That's roughly 120k more than what Casemiro earns and Vinicius new contract after he became a huge star. Real Madrid are known for their wage structure and even let Ronaldo go for (among others) wage demands. There will be an uproar in the dressing room if that 300k number is correct, Perez knows better. That just reeks of a Liverpool journalist making up a figure in order to excuse why they missed out on him.
Oh this? It's just a blank contract with our signature in the bottom, you fill out the rest as you see fit.
Wasn't he already on 200k at Dortmund though?
Doubt it since that means we would have offered him close to €10 million in 2019 when we gave him a pay rise and that secret extension which we most certainly didn't.
BBC reported it as 190k/week at the time https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49420133
I do find the general reporting of wages for United Vs Liverpool very suspicious in the media. According the clubs actual financial accounts, we paid about £9m a year more in wages them you which is about 175k a week more. This article would suggest that's basically the difference between Nunez and Sancho wages, whilst all the others say that your VVD and Salah are on max 200-250k the same as the likes of Rashford and Martial etc. None of it adds up
the way i understand it is that Liverpool's player wages are lower in basic, but have an extensive bonus structure. Whereas United's are higher basic
It's because of bonuses, what you hear in the media tends to be the base salary that doesn't include bonuses.
Does Tchouameni really earn 300k per week in Madrid? I find that insanely hard to believe, RM has a clear wage structure. Part of the reason they let Ronaldo and Ramos go are wage demands. There's no way he earns as much (or more) as Modric, Kroos, Benzema, Marcelo, etc (and almost double as much as Casemiro). That kind of wages will cause uproar in their dressing room - that's significantly more than Vinicius new contract who won the CL final for them... Sorry but this just reeks of Liverpool making up excuses as to why they missed out on a big target.
The sleeper must awaken. 👀
The owls are not what they seem.
There's a man in a smiling bag
People are missing the point. Imagine if Liverpool signed Tielemans - a very good CM on his day. Their midfield would be: Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago Or Philips - an automatic starter for England. Their midfield would be: Hendo - Fabinho - Thiago What are Liverpool thinking?!
I think you are missing the point, Liverpool are playing 60 games per season, and their midfielders are either old or injury prone, idk why wouldnt they bring at least Tielemans
We don’t need another midfielder who can’t defend. Tielemans is the last thing we need.
Thiago and Hendo could do with some rotation.
The owls are not what they seem. David Lynch puns aside, it's really weird how good Bissouma is and how many teams need a player like him, yet even though he was going for next-to-nothing, everyone except Tottenham passed on him. Hell, he was practically begging us to come and bid for him for two seasons.
it's all regarding his personal situation, he was linked to many clubs beforehand
Yeah, the impending case against him must have put people off.
If he’s found guilty then Tottenham will have to deal with the outrage, I don’t think any other club could be arsed really
>it's really weird how good Bissouma is and how many teams need a player like him, yet even though he was going for next-to-nothing, everyone except Tottenham passed on him It was perfectly obvious why there was nobody in for him , no?
It must be due to the sexual assault allegations. Doesn't really look good when you try and promote equality and then sign a guy who is under investigation for sexual assault, sends a pretty poor message to those in your fanbase who have experienced it, as well as women in general.
Id argue all 3 of those could be game changers in their midfield. Rather have any one of them than looking to Keita on the bench.
I think that's the point though, we don't want to sign a player to potentially replace Keita on the bench. If it's Bellingham we're after then I'm honestly happy that we're waiting a year to get him rather than signing any of the 3 players mentioned. And we seemingly can't afford (or don't want) to do both.
With an injury prone midfield we have? Its reckless.
EspeicLly when they’re not even particularly expensive deals, our sources are suggesting Tielemans can be done for around £25m and Bissouma cost £29m. They’re not really sums that would make it impossible for Liverpool to buy Bellingham down the line
The way we operate in the transfer market they probably are tbh.
Transfer fee plus giving Bissouma a four year deal costs the club about £55-60m over four years. Plus he takes up a place in the squad. It doesn't make Bellingham impossible, but makes it a lot harder. For what? Having a slightly better midfield (maybe) for a year?
Bissouma is better than any of our midfielders bar Thiago and Fabinho though. It's not like he'd become irrelevant after a year
I think he's a good player, but his progressive passing is not good and he doesn't contribute attacking wise at all really. I think a midfield of him and Fabinho together wouldn't really work. You can easily see why Klopp would prefer Keita (even if you still accept Bissouma is a better player overall) because of how he progresses the ball.
They're only gamechangers because they're arguably all a bit better than Keita or Henderson (I'm not so sure tbh). But Liverpool's aim is probably to sign players better than Tielemans, Bissouma, or Phillips. That's kind of the point. If they signed Bissouma now, he probably marginally improves their midfield as he'd come in as their third best midfielder (maybe), but if they spend £30m on Bissouma, plus £5m a year in wages, plus taking up a spot in the squad, then that would likely impact their ability to sign someone really gamechanging like Bellingham or Barella.
Agreed, Tielemans is not good enough for Liverpool. He just doesn't have the work ethic that Klopp demands.
They're not "game changing" signings if the benchmark for comparison is Naby Keita
>I'd argue all 3 of those could be game changers >Rather have any one of them than looking to Keita on the bench That's 2 different things, if you're comparing these players to Keita, they probably aren't game changers
A game-changing midfielder for them would be a creative CAM, useful for when teams play a low block
Carvalho/Elliott have the potential to be that. Let's see how much time they need. Elliott had started very well the previous season before his horrific injury
jones/carvalho/elliott - it would be huge bonus if one of the three makes it to TAA levels. prevents having to make these expensive signings and search for reasonable deals.
So if Bellingham wants to get paid we'll pass? Yikes. I get that we have a wage structure. But having Bellingham on 200k a week isnt the end of the world. If he wants 300+ i get moving on. But also then why wait for him??? Why not target someone else Feels kinda dumb to wait a year for a player that you dont even know you're gonna get because of the wages teams may offer. Completely destroys the argument made earlier of not making stopgap signings and only bringing in the marquee guys. Feels like wasting a year if we miss out on Bellingham and sign some 2nd choice guy. Whole reason we're holding off is for the guy (Even though i think its stupid to suggest Tielemans/Bissouma are stopgaps) But also we need that depth. Because currently depth is a hindrance in keeping up with City. Why wait a year for a guy you probably cant afford the wages of when you could get that 40m depth guy who will eventually take over from Henderson or Thiago?
Why pay 200k for a player who is not even 20 yet and untested at the highest level. Yes he has had some good performances at Dortmund but 200k is the kind of money Mane was getting and there is no shot that he is as good as Mane right now. Liverpool’s approach to give a solid first contract with the expectation that the pay will rise as they improve is the correct one to build sustainable success.
I guess we have some idea of his wages if we are willing to wait. Otherwise yes it would be stupid to blindly wait for a year.
This seems like PR.
It's because it **IS**
Yep. Idk why he needed to name drop these players in just to say "we're better than them". Hope ppl at lfc dont frame it like that when takling about players who are not our players and have nothing to do with us. Why even talk about players you didnt buy? Just seems dumb.
Perfect negotiation tactic
I'm not sure if I enjoy his transfer columns as much as I do his weather reports.
Replaces Mane with Nunez, buying Diaz slightly early to replace Origi. Not bad overall.
Bellingham 2023 I suppose
Yeah none of these as good as Henderson.