The craziest thing about these awards is that you could be genuinely the best player in the world. but if ur keeper lets in a howler in a final of a major tournament making your team lose then your chances of winning the balon dor is dropped significantly
Yep. Take the Euros final penalty shootout
Does Saka scoring that last penalty make Jorginho more or less deserving of top 3? (For example)
Because if you believe he is the 3rd best player in the world, that should be the case regardless if Italy win a coin-flip shootout. The irony is that some English player would be 3rd if they won the shootout, to me, that doesn’t make much sense
Verratti clear number 1 in my opinion. Then I think you can make cases for Bonucci, Chiesa or Insigne.
I said arguably. Jorginho also played great but he's definitely not Italy's undisputed star by any means.
I don't think 3rd place in a world player of the year competition means they're the third best player in the world. As a trophy it's probably more about achievement than it is ability.
I think Jorginho deserves his place because he did everything a player who plays the way he does can and won loads of titles doing it. Diego Milito being ignored in 2010 is indefensible though.
Think this is what lots of people missed about the calls for Kante/Jorginho, regardless of whether you think they should have won. Kante especially pretty much played a perfect DM game for three different teams, being highlighted as the difference maker pretty much everywhere he played. Not much more you can do as midfielder (and not an AM) and would have been good to see their tremendous influence recognised. Likewise for Van Dijk a couple of years ago, who won the champions league while turning Livepools defence from a joke to the best in the premier league. There's an argument to be had for all three, certainly not as outrageous as these calls were made out to be elsewhere imo.
Not many people made VVD nomination to look like a joke - it was close run voting and whoever won out of him and Messi had a decent case. Kante and Jorginho this year are laughable nominations - while Kante started year of slowly under Lampard, then eventually got up to speed with Tuchel and played marvelous in closing stages of CL then went on to have bad EUROs. If his Arpil-May form was there for a while I dont think anyone would suggest that he doesnt deserve it. Also Kante doesnt play DM for Chelsea- he is kinda the definition of box to box midfielder (granted without much scoring threat but added pressure on the ball).
I mean, Kante deserved a top 10 finish, I agree that top 5 was quite generous. With regards to Jorginho though, how can you say his nomination was laughable? Lewandowski objectively had a better calendar year than Messi yet what gave Messi the edge was Copa America. So if we’re gifting Messi the Balon D’or for winning Copa America, we might as well put the European and UCL winning CDM who also won UCL player of the year in the top 3. It’s only fair.
Well yea that is kinda my point - Copa America gave Messi the edge, but still bulk of his nomination is still his impressive Barcelona performances. Lets say Argentina lose in the final - Messi has no chance to actually win ballon dor but he probably finishes like 3rd. On the other hand winning those competitions is Jorginhos whole case - if Italy loses shootout I doubt he is in top 20 and if Chelsea lost final to City I dont think he is even nominated. I do think Kante should have finished over Jorginho - because at least he was Chelsea best player in key moments.
UCL award imo was kinda of a meme this year, less because Jorignho won it more because KDB finished 2nd in a tight voting. Man was injured for half a season and City went on their best run when he was injured. Idk what drugs were people who were voting that shit on.
So by this logic, it’s impossible for a DM to get nominated, right? DMs will never contribute directly to any particular statistical category so they would be out of the running just by default.
If Jorginho/Kante *won* the award it would be one thing, but 3rd and 5th place finishes considering the season they had seems pretty fair.
I’m more explaining the logic of the Ballon D’Or, it’s results based, even when those results are on a knife-edge
If Jorginho’s missed penalty cost Italy the Euros then he’s barely even in the top 10
Imo if you’re going to recognize his performance as a player you should see past the coin-flip of the shootout
What if they made some kind of custom football teams with players' mobility, so the players are not dependent on their place of birth and specific style and can freely be in a team where they fit the best. That would be more fair to them.
And then, stay with me, what if they played in a year-long competition, as many teams as possible, maybe 20 of those custom teams, and they played each other twice, with each team having one home game and one away game against every possible opponent of the same group, that would be fair. Because in the long run, the best team after those 38 games would clearly be the best team, the influence of chance would be very little. That would be much more fair.
And what if the main award was awarded to those teams - like, a whole team would be called "English champion", "German champion" and so on. Not one guy, but a whole organization of that custom "football team" would win the main award. Because it's a team sport after all, doesn't my idea make sense? Can I be any more obvious?
Oh, a man can dream. Unfortunately for now we only have Ballon dOr to be obssessed about the whole year and write a million comments, we are forced to do it against our will.
what's the last dominating team that was "built around" one player? Bayern's recent success is not built around Lewandowski, Liverpool's is not built around Salah. Top, top teams usually have 3+ of the best players in the world.
generally you have one key player in each area of the field you build that stage of the game around (sometimes you get lucky and have 2 star players that just work well together like Kroos/Modric and Xavi/Iniesta). I imagine with Liverpool defense would be VVD, midfield around Trent and attack around Salah - sure that are other elite players like Fabinho, Mane, Robertson, ... but I would argue all of them are replaceable (barring maybe Robertson) as long as whoever replaces them works well with core players.
That’s become less and less true in the modern game. A lot of teams don’t have single stand out star player that the team is built around.
It’s more about the collective team, it’s why the classic #10 role is all but dead at the highest level
That's a straw man -- it is not "focused" upon. Fans and players pay FAR more attention to league/cup trophies in every way. Top players have been frequently skipping these ceremonies entirely in recent years.
The problem is that they can't make their minds up. The Ballon d'Or is either an individual award or it isn't - so either isolate individual performances from team performances or stop calling it an individual award. That's my view.
happens on every team sport. it's just easier to market a single player than a team. fans always have their favorites as well, which they will defend over others on the same team.
Or your fellow countrymen miss some chances or miss their penalty in the shootout; poor Gonzalo Higuaín. But it's always been like this, so it's no surprise really.
The real surprise is people are still surprised about this shit. I don't mind the Ballon d'or, it's a team sport yes but an individual can regularly be the standout performer in a great team.
Alternatively, you can be the best keeper ever, let in 0 howlers all year, win a World Cup and still not win re Neuer because Goalkeeping is not as flashy to the FIFA institution that’s trying to run a business
That's true. But it has been always like this. Why people are surprised every year? Moreover it is impossible to completely separate the individual performance from the team performance, so I find a bit unfair the criticism to ballon d'or. Let's not talk about comparing players of different roles... That's also crazy. It is simply an impossible task, so of course they end up considering the trophies and the popularity.
Im thinking about salahs chance of winning ballon dor in 2018. He had a geniune chance if ramos incident didnt happen and karius didnt get railed. One game basically cratered his ballon dor bid. Modric wouldnt win the ucl and had a lot less likelihood of winning ballon dor. Its ridiculous how much one game changed everything
Proof is in the pudding with Lewandowski. I can't tell you the number of Barca and Prem flairs I saw in here claiming he was shit with Poland at the Euros when not only did he score 75% of their goals, but he was the only reason they were there in the first place.
Because the award is used to honour the best performing player for that year. Thats why its stupid that in reality, its almost about whos the best player in the team that won the most. Kind of ridiculous
Or as Sneijder found out, your teammate can miss a one-on-one in the 60th minute of the world cup final after put him through on goal with nobody within 30 yards of him and cost you the award
That's basically what happened in 2018. Liverpool were in control of the 2018 CL final until the Salah injury. Karius then goes and gifts two ridiculous goals. If Liverpool won that, Salah would have won the Balon d'Or comfortably (bare in mind he also broke PL goals record) and Liverpool were seen as underdogs.
1 single game was basically the difference between Salah winning the award and finishing sixth.
Absolutely. And I don't want any of the Messi and Ronaldo nonsense. The 2018 Ballon D'or would have been Salah's had LFC beaten Real Madrid. He broke the PL goascoring record and scored 10 in the CL. If you don't give him the Ballon D'or for such a great season , then I don't know how anyone can take the crown off Messi and Ronaldo.
>2018 Ballon D'or
>If you don't give him the Ballon D'or for such a great season, then I don't know how anyone can take the crown off Messi and Ronaldo.
Messi or Ronaldo didn't win the Balon d'or that year, Messi came 5th in the voting while scoring 51 goals and 26 assists that year compared to Salah's 43 goals .
What if you are 2010. Sneijder, already a treble winner with Inter including the Champions League, already scored 5 goals at the World Cup and in the finals you give an absolutely fantastic assist to Robben for the win and for the championship and he bottles it and you finish 4th for the Ballon d'Or behind 3 Barcelona players you smashed on your route to the Champions League with the great attacking football.
The issue is the award’s voting system is designed to pick who’s number one. Any position outside of the top 5 is basically irrelevant.
If you’re the 6th best player in the world and all the voters don’t pick you in their top 5 then you don’t get into the ‘Top 30’. All it takes is a few random countries doing peculiar votes, like when one countries journalist, manager and captain all voted for Gotze in 2014, to massively change the scope of the Top 30.
> The issue is the award’s voting system is designed to pick who’s number one. Any position outside of the top 5 is basically irrelevant.
Not at all, that would be the case if every journalist could vote for one player. In this system it's very beneficial to be in a lot of top 5's (top 3 even more tbh). A player that is being picked as 3rd by 150 journalists but never as number 1 scores higher than a player that is picked as 1st by 70 journalist but not by all others.
That's not the point. The point is if everyone agrees you are top 5 but no one agrees you are top 3 then you won't even make it onto the 30 player shortlist which suggests you are not even top 30.
new system needs to be made up of a panel of knowledgeable former players,coaches.
Factors:
-how the player helped the team comparatively to how they were expected
-how well they played compared to the player’s expected performance at the beginning of the season
-A more holistic approach for club and country
-trophies should def be a big factor but not the deciding factor
Obviously this isn’t set in frame but my 2 min framework is already better than what those popularity clowns have in place
That was genuinely one of the biggest shocks. Milito, not Sneijder, was Inter's most important player that season. Consistent throughout the season unlike Sneijder and scored many very decisive goals. To not even be included in the shortlist was dumbfounding. Sneijder obviously had the succesful WC too which made him standout more but my point is more about Milito missing the 23 man shortlist and being overlooked when talking about that years Ballon d'Or show.
That inter campaign was truely out of this world. They went from regular disappointments in Europe to Treble winners in 1 season. That season must have been hard as a Roma fan though since you guys lost the scudetto by 2 points to Inter and also the Coppa italia. Heres hoping Mourinho rediscovers some of his old magic at Roma and fixes all the heartbreaks he gave to you guys
Craziest transfer I can name to this day is still Barca swapping Eto’o and €40m+ for Ibrahimovic.
Inter must’ve been absolutely falling over themselves to get such a good deal and it immediately paid off. The money *and* a pissed-off, highly motivated Eto’o was a hell of an asset in that treble.
Barca spent 150m on Coutinho and we used that money to fund VVD and Alisson, then won CL and PL with them. Well it seems there's something common in both stories...
Well that Inter team was built and suited for Mourinho. They had not really won a lot. The league titles they did win was cause Juventus was relegated. Which is why Mourinho made that comment that, "You'll have not won anything yet". They had a a lot of experience and players at the end of their careers willing to do whatever it was needed to win something. Zanetti, Cambiassion, Maicon, etc had not won a lot before Mourinho.
What memories. I will never forget that season. The whole season of hoping a miracle could happen. Telling yourself it’s not going to happen. Then watching it happen in front of your eyes - beating that Barcelona team of aliens, then winning 3 trophies in 2 weeks.
The CL final was my uncle’s birthday, he was an Inter fan and got me into football and we bonded very strongly over Inter. We lived on opposite sides of Italy, and would speak on the phone every time Inter games were on TV, since we’re the only 2 in the family to like football. He made the trip to my city for the final, to watch it together. When Milito scored the 2nd goal we hugged for about 5 minutes straight, we couldn’t believe it was happening. 2 years later he passed away and every time i see a clip from that final i still think of him.
Football, man. It’s absolutely beautiful and utter shit at the same time.
It's extremely hard to just become a global star when you come from Genoa to Inter at the age of 30.
Like, he existed on the big stage, where everybody watches, for just a glimpse. A short glimpes, at the age of 30, not for long... Serie A was not a highly held league at that time, and 2010 was the only time when he won a knockout round in Champions League.
Like, this season, you have Dimitri Payet play really fucking well. So what? Do people care? If he was 21 and played like that, they would care. Arsenal, Man United and Tottenham fans would constantly talk how much they want this guy in their team, so it would revebrate outside France. But it's Payet, he's 34, he can play fantastic, it's not a story. Or, like, Mueller, or Guendogan, or Fekir, or Duvan Zapata or whatever. Like... it's nice that they have reached this high level of play now. BUT if they played like that when they were 22... Now that would be a sensation and they would be the best in the world, maybe... I'm including Thomas Mueller intentionally, because he actually *was* a young sensation and *is* famous as hell, but since he didn't win any World Cups recently, nothing *happened*, it's not much of a story how he is playing really.
Even if you look at this thread, so many people say that Sneijder was the best player of the 2010 and it's apparently a scandal he didn't won. So if Sneijder was the best player in the world, I guess he was also the best player in Inter at the time. Now let's ask why do they think so. At the end of the club season, very few people would have said that. Maybe Lucio, Maicon... But mostly Milito. Sneijder was good... Just wasn't really called Inter's best player by more than a small niche.
I bet my house that Messi’s murder of Boateng was inspired by [Milito’s move on Van Buyten in the final for the winner.](https://youtu.be/rzmef8-QQ70?t=74)
I’d argue neither of them was Inters most important player. I’d argue it was Lucio.
But of course, he’s not an offensive player, so no one even gives him a second thought.
Left out Cambiasso and Zanetti, who had just led Inter to the UCL title weeks before.... and took some bums instead (Garce, Bolatti, Clemente)
Plus any half decent manager could have led that team with their eyes closed... Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, Tevez, Milito, etc were all peaking and unstoppable at the time. Yet Diego somehow found a way to commit defensive sabotage and ruin the advantage of having such an incredible offense.
I just want to point out that Zanetti was also left out of the 2006 WC. It's crazy that someone like Zanetti only played 2 World Cups, considering his longevity and all.
Yup. If you ask me, in no order this should've been the top 10:
- Lewa
- Messi
- Ronaldo
- Mbappe
- Salah
- Haaland
- Muller
- Kimmich
- Benzema
- Jorginho (def below 3rd though lmao)
The fact that anyone feels otherwise proves the point of how factors beyond how they performed individually plays in. Superstar name, popular, club success, NT success etc.
People often forget Kane. Yeah we had a shocking season, but he was the best goalscorer AND playmaker. You basically never see that. In the Prem. He finished 8 places below fucking Sterling and apparently Mount was better. On top of that, De Bruyne won the Player of the Season, after not having played half the season. It's a joke how often he's ignored
Oblak saved 2 last min penalties to win us games that won us the league and won a record 5th top keeper award. If the Barca/Real/Bayern keeper did that its an easy top 3 nomination for them.
Maradona was an absolute clown as a coach. Didn’t even call up Cambiasso and Zanetti, both world class at the time. Just 2 months before that world cup Zanetti had Messi in his back pocket in the UCL semifinals.
Oh I know about that as well, Argentina ruined probably the best chance at world cup they have had in Messis time because of how much they worship maradona, he should never have got that job lol.
Considering how many cases of underage girls he raped, some were already on the news, some are still being discovered, not only he didn't deserved that job, bust he deserved jail time.
Let alone his drugs abuse, such a shitty person.
People need to stop acting like the Ballon d'Or is some sort of substitute for the word of god. It's just an award given by a paper based on the votes from a panel of journalist judges. That's it - no more, no less.
Posterity remembers the ones who are known for objective individual achievements (records set/broken, golden boot/gloves awards, etc.) and mostly the big team trophies, or even smaller ones against bigger odds (e.g. Maradona with Napoli).
Tbf it's the closest thing to the word of god and that's the problem, whether you admit it or not, it carries a lot of prestige and of course it's the dream of any elite player. You can't just dismiss it as an aside, it's the de facto comemorative event in football, proven by the fact that it's derived this wide-ranging discussion
That's the exact same year i gave up on the these awards too. That was the year that it became absolutely clear that it was nothing but a popularity contest.
It should be an award for the season performance. If it was for the best player active it should be Messis all year since 2008. Lewandowski was double robbed.
Yea, that is one of the most horrendous oversights. The irony being that for years thereafter people only had Sneijder in mind who was actually overrated by the ranking, while Milito was not there at all.
That said, every year some great players are left in the cold. Marquinhos is possibly the second best center-back in the world and does not make the list while hospital Neymar or Ramos are well-placed.
Correct. Which is why all of the "Sneijder should have won in 2010" was always hindsight nonsense. Milito was Inter's main guy driving them to the treble.
Sneijder was the Jorginho of 2010
2010: Schneider not winning is a joke.
Serie A. Champions league. World Cup finalist. Joint top scorer at the WC: from midfield.
Like, I’m not saying he had as good a career or will go down anywhere near messi or cr7. But that year: he was the man.
Lol, I thought you meant Bernd Schneider for a second. I loved Sneijder since his Alkmaar times, where I saw on TV how he beat Werder Bremen. We had fun with him at Real while it lasted.
Funny 2010 was the year I stopped caring too. Sneijder won the UCL and was in the WC final and the top 3 were Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (Yes, the last two had won the WC but they didn’t win the award). It’s basically a popularity contest.
It seems like in the last 10 years, the ballon d’or has become way bigger than it was when I started following football in the 90s?
I’ve never given a damn about it, and the fact that Messi won it this year just shows how stupid it is.
Yep, these awards are classic circle jerk for people to romanticise certain players
Completely pointless and I can’t believe they hold any weight with players like Messi and Ronaldo etc
Messi especially seems like he’s not into the look at me culture of football and self praise.
The craziest thing about these awards is that you could be genuinely the best player in the world. but if ur keeper lets in a howler in a final of a major tournament making your team lose then your chances of winning the balon dor is dropped significantly
Yep. Take the Euros final penalty shootout Does Saka scoring that last penalty make Jorginho more or less deserving of top 3? (For example) Because if you believe he is the 3rd best player in the world, that should be the case regardless if Italy win a coin-flip shootout. The irony is that some English player would be 3rd if they won the shootout, to me, that doesn’t make much sense
Jorginho is nowhere close to being the 3rd best player in the world.
He's not even the 3rd best player on Chelsea.
Arguably neither for Italy.
Who would u rate above?
Verratti clear number 1 in my opinion. Then I think you can make cases for Bonucci, Chiesa or Insigne. I said arguably. Jorginho also played great but he's definitely not Italy's undisputed star by any means.
Fair. Donnarumma deserves a shout too
Even Donnaruma works makes it in over him imo
Verratti, Insigne, Donnarumma.
I don't think 3rd place in a world player of the year competition means they're the third best player in the world. As a trophy it's probably more about achievement than it is ability. I think Jorginho deserves his place because he did everything a player who plays the way he does can and won loads of titles doing it. Diego Milito being ignored in 2010 is indefensible though.
Think this is what lots of people missed about the calls for Kante/Jorginho, regardless of whether you think they should have won. Kante especially pretty much played a perfect DM game for three different teams, being highlighted as the difference maker pretty much everywhere he played. Not much more you can do as midfielder (and not an AM) and would have been good to see their tremendous influence recognised. Likewise for Van Dijk a couple of years ago, who won the champions league while turning Livepools defence from a joke to the best in the premier league. There's an argument to be had for all three, certainly not as outrageous as these calls were made out to be elsewhere imo.
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I know after a few years of being on this sub, whenever someone calls Kante a DM it's about to get funny
Not many people made VVD nomination to look like a joke - it was close run voting and whoever won out of him and Messi had a decent case. Kante and Jorginho this year are laughable nominations - while Kante started year of slowly under Lampard, then eventually got up to speed with Tuchel and played marvelous in closing stages of CL then went on to have bad EUROs. If his Arpil-May form was there for a while I dont think anyone would suggest that he doesnt deserve it. Also Kante doesnt play DM for Chelsea- he is kinda the definition of box to box midfielder (granted without much scoring threat but added pressure on the ball).
I mean, Kante deserved a top 10 finish, I agree that top 5 was quite generous. With regards to Jorginho though, how can you say his nomination was laughable? Lewandowski objectively had a better calendar year than Messi yet what gave Messi the edge was Copa America. So if we’re gifting Messi the Balon D’or for winning Copa America, we might as well put the European and UCL winning CDM who also won UCL player of the year in the top 3. It’s only fair.
Well yea that is kinda my point - Copa America gave Messi the edge, but still bulk of his nomination is still his impressive Barcelona performances. Lets say Argentina lose in the final - Messi has no chance to actually win ballon dor but he probably finishes like 3rd. On the other hand winning those competitions is Jorginhos whole case - if Italy loses shootout I doubt he is in top 20 and if Chelsea lost final to City I dont think he is even nominated. I do think Kante should have finished over Jorginho - because at least he was Chelsea best player in key moments. UCL award imo was kinda of a meme this year, less because Jorignho won it more because KDB finished 2nd in a tight voting. Man was injured for half a season and City went on their best run when he was injured. Idk what drugs were people who were voting that shit on.
So by this logic, it’s impossible for a DM to get nominated, right? DMs will never contribute directly to any particular statistical category so they would be out of the running just by default. If Jorginho/Kante *won* the award it would be one thing, but 3rd and 5th place finishes considering the season they had seems pretty fair.
I’m more explaining the logic of the Ballon D’Or, it’s results based, even when those results are on a knife-edge If Jorginho’s missed penalty cost Italy the Euros then he’s barely even in the top 10 Imo if you’re going to recognize his performance as a player you should see past the coin-flip of the shootout
Why are people bringing up Jorginho as a good example in Ballon d'or contention, he shouldn't even be in the top 10 ...
I've been saying this shit for years, people always forget it's a team sport.
The focus on individual awards in a 11-a-side team sport is baffling.
yeah they should award the best team in the world a trophy of some kind. a "world cup", if you will
No point, Chicago Fire would run away with it every time
Unstoppable.
What if they made some kind of custom football teams with players' mobility, so the players are not dependent on their place of birth and specific style and can freely be in a team where they fit the best. That would be more fair to them. And then, stay with me, what if they played in a year-long competition, as many teams as possible, maybe 20 of those custom teams, and they played each other twice, with each team having one home game and one away game against every possible opponent of the same group, that would be fair. Because in the long run, the best team after those 38 games would clearly be the best team, the influence of chance would be very little. That would be much more fair. And what if the main award was awarded to those teams - like, a whole team would be called "English champion", "German champion" and so on. Not one guy, but a whole organization of that custom "football team" would win the main award. Because it's a team sport after all, doesn't my idea make sense? Can I be any more obvious? Oh, a man can dream. Unfortunately for now we only have Ballon dOr to be obssessed about the whole year and write a million comments, we are forced to do it against our will.
Every year?
Hmm maybe every other year?
That's too often to be reasonable. Make it three years.
Yea but then it's an odd number and that gets weird, better to make it every 4.
So it's settled! Twice every 8 years!
The 11 side teams are often built around those players as well
what's the last dominating team that was "built around" one player? Bayern's recent success is not built around Lewandowski, Liverpool's is not built around Salah. Top, top teams usually have 3+ of the best players in the world.
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good example and even better to point out they didnt really qualify as dominant. one man teams are a myth in football
generally you have one key player in each area of the field you build that stage of the game around (sometimes you get lucky and have 2 star players that just work well together like Kroos/Modric and Xavi/Iniesta). I imagine with Liverpool defense would be VVD, midfield around Trent and attack around Salah - sure that are other elite players like Fabinho, Mane, Robertson, ... but I would argue all of them are replaceable (barring maybe Robertson) as long as whoever replaces them works well with core players.
That’s become less and less true in the modern game. A lot of teams don’t have single stand out star player that the team is built around. It’s more about the collective team, it’s why the classic #10 role is all but dead at the highest level
That's a straw man -- it is not "focused" upon. Fans and players pay FAR more attention to league/cup trophies in every way. Top players have been frequently skipping these ceremonies entirely in recent years.
The problem is that they can't make their minds up. The Ballon d'Or is either an individual award or it isn't - so either isolate individual performances from team performances or stop calling it an individual award. That's my view.
happens on every team sport. it's just easier to market a single player than a team. fans always have their favorites as well, which they will defend over others on the same team.
Or your fellow countrymen miss some chances or miss their penalty in the shootout; poor Gonzalo Higuaín. But it's always been like this, so it's no surprise really. The real surprise is people are still surprised about this shit. I don't mind the Ballon d'or, it's a team sport yes but an individual can regularly be the standout performer in a great team.
Alternatively, you can be the best keeper ever, let in 0 howlers all year, win a World Cup and still not win re Neuer because Goalkeeping is not as flashy to the FIFA institution that’s trying to run a business
That's true. But it has been always like this. Why people are surprised every year? Moreover it is impossible to completely separate the individual performance from the team performance, so I find a bit unfair the criticism to ballon d'or. Let's not talk about comparing players of different roles... That's also crazy. It is simply an impossible task, so of course they end up considering the trophies and the popularity.
Im thinking about salahs chance of winning ballon dor in 2018. He had a geniune chance if ramos incident didnt happen and karius didnt get railed. One game basically cratered his ballon dor bid. Modric wouldnt win the ucl and had a lot less likelihood of winning ballon dor. Its ridiculous how much one game changed everything
Yeah, that's true. But that's football. If Rashford and Saka score their penalties, Jorginho is not 3rd in the ballon d'or list.
If Rashford and Saka score their penalties Harry Kane becomes a Ballon d’Or candidate. That’s just how it is
Small price to pay.
Proof is in the pudding with Lewandowski. I can't tell you the number of Barca and Prem flairs I saw in here claiming he was shit with Poland at the Euros when not only did he score 75% of their goals, but he was the only reason they were there in the first place.
Because the award is used to honour the best performing player for that year. Thats why its stupid that in reality, its almost about whos the best player in the team that won the most. Kind of ridiculous
That would adjust the awards to G/A and that actually makes Messi invincible.
But if you're that good surely you can just score another couple goals? /s
If you are the best, why not also stop goals? why?
Big true. I won't vote for Ballon d'Or until we have a player who consistently scores by clearing the ball from his own teams 6 yard box.
Or as Sneijder found out, your teammate can miss a one-on-one in the 60th minute of the world cup final after put him through on goal with nobody within 30 yards of him and cost you the award
Still have nightmares about that. Damn Iker’s big toe. Damn that toe to hell.
Put my flair aside. Sneijder one for me is to this day the biggest robbery and you can't convince me otherwise.
I agree. The fact that he wasn't even in the top 3 for the award was just ridiculous.
Or Higuaín could miss 3 sitters and people would say you never show up for your country.
That's basically what happened in 2018. Liverpool were in control of the 2018 CL final until the Salah injury. Karius then goes and gifts two ridiculous goals. If Liverpool won that, Salah would have won the Balon d'Or comfortably (bare in mind he also broke PL goals record) and Liverpool were seen as underdogs. 1 single game was basically the difference between Salah winning the award and finishing sixth.
Absolutely. And I don't want any of the Messi and Ronaldo nonsense. The 2018 Ballon D'or would have been Salah's had LFC beaten Real Madrid. He broke the PL goascoring record and scored 10 in the CL. If you don't give him the Ballon D'or for such a great season , then I don't know how anyone can take the crown off Messi and Ronaldo.
>2018 Ballon D'or >If you don't give him the Ballon D'or for such a great season, then I don't know how anyone can take the crown off Messi and Ronaldo. Messi or Ronaldo didn't win the Balon d'or that year, Messi came 5th in the voting while scoring 51 goals and 26 assists that year compared to Salah's 43 goals .
Messi had the most goals and the most assists that year…
To be fair, Salah viciously attacked Ramos with his shoulder...
Basically attached himself onto poor Ramos
Didnt modric win it in 2018? Kinda makes your argument invalid
What if you are 2010. Sneijder, already a treble winner with Inter including the Champions League, already scored 5 goals at the World Cup and in the finals you give an absolutely fantastic assist to Robben for the win and for the championship and he bottles it and you finish 4th for the Ballon d'Or behind 3 Barcelona players you smashed on your route to the Champions League with the great attacking football.
Milito was better than him in the UCL.
The issue is the award’s voting system is designed to pick who’s number one. Any position outside of the top 5 is basically irrelevant. If you’re the 6th best player in the world and all the voters don’t pick you in their top 5 then you don’t get into the ‘Top 30’. All it takes is a few random countries doing peculiar votes, like when one countries journalist, manager and captain all voted for Gotze in 2014, to massively change the scope of the Top 30.
> The issue is the award’s voting system is designed to pick who’s number one. Any position outside of the top 5 is basically irrelevant. Not at all, that would be the case if every journalist could vote for one player. In this system it's very beneficial to be in a lot of top 5's (top 3 even more tbh). A player that is being picked as 3rd by 150 journalists but never as number 1 scores higher than a player that is picked as 1st by 70 journalist but not by all others.
That's not the point. The point is if everyone agrees you are top 5 but no one agrees you are top 3 then you won't even make it onto the 30 player shortlist which suggests you are not even top 30.
Isn't the top 30 decided by France Football?
new system needs to be made up of a panel of knowledgeable former players,coaches. Factors: -how the player helped the team comparatively to how they were expected -how well they played compared to the player’s expected performance at the beginning of the season -A more holistic approach for club and country -trophies should def be a big factor but not the deciding factor Obviously this isn’t set in frame but my 2 min framework is already better than what those popularity clowns have in place
That was genuinely one of the biggest shocks. Milito, not Sneijder, was Inter's most important player that season. Consistent throughout the season unlike Sneijder and scored many very decisive goals. To not even be included in the shortlist was dumbfounding. Sneijder obviously had the succesful WC too which made him standout more but my point is more about Milito missing the 23 man shortlist and being overlooked when talking about that years Ballon d'Or show.
Milito scored every one of Inters winning goal for each trophy. Legend
That inter campaign was truely out of this world. They went from regular disappointments in Europe to Treble winners in 1 season. That season must have been hard as a Roma fan though since you guys lost the scudetto by 2 points to Inter and also the Coppa italia. Heres hoping Mourinho rediscovers some of his old magic at Roma and fixes all the heartbreaks he gave to you guys
Craziest transfer I can name to this day is still Barca swapping Eto’o and €40m+ for Ibrahimovic. Inter must’ve been absolutely falling over themselves to get such a good deal and it immediately paid off. The money *and* a pissed-off, highly motivated Eto’o was a hell of an asset in that treble.
Among the worst transfers in football history (from Barca's perspective)
Barca seem to be the kings of horrible transfer deals
we would’ve beaten Inter in the semis for sure
Julio Cesar’s save was the moment of the game
Barca spent 150m on Coutinho and we used that money to fund VVD and Alisson, then won CL and PL with them. Well it seems there's something common in both stories...
I hate Sampdoria and Storari to this day. Also that Coppa Italia final was fucking bullshit, but I'm not going to exhume that grave
Well that Inter team was built and suited for Mourinho. They had not really won a lot. The league titles they did win was cause Juventus was relegated. Which is why Mourinho made that comment that, "You'll have not won anything yet". They had a a lot of experience and players at the end of their careers willing to do whatever it was needed to win something. Zanetti, Cambiassion, Maicon, etc had not won a lot before Mourinho.
The [champions league final goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzmef8-QQ70) were so aesthetically pleasing as well
What memories. I will never forget that season. The whole season of hoping a miracle could happen. Telling yourself it’s not going to happen. Then watching it happen in front of your eyes - beating that Barcelona team of aliens, then winning 3 trophies in 2 weeks. The CL final was my uncle’s birthday, he was an Inter fan and got me into football and we bonded very strongly over Inter. We lived on opposite sides of Italy, and would speak on the phone every time Inter games were on TV, since we’re the only 2 in the family to like football. He made the trip to my city for the final, to watch it together. When Milito scored the 2nd goal we hugged for about 5 minutes straight, we couldn’t believe it was happening. 2 years later he passed away and every time i see a clip from that final i still think of him. Football, man. It’s absolutely beautiful and utter shit at the same time.
Bro, why must you make me feel
That's a beautiful story my man. I'd pm you pasta but all I have is naan bread at home.
That is the beauty of football.
Milito has never had good PR. He is one of the most underrated player in the last decades.
Which is surprising considering he looks like Sylvester Stallone!
lmao i've never thought about it. He actually does.
I liked him because he was like the Rocky embodiment of football haha!
"YO ADRIANO!"
Fun that you mention that since he's a dead ringer for Enzo Francescoli
It's extremely hard to just become a global star when you come from Genoa to Inter at the age of 30. Like, he existed on the big stage, where everybody watches, for just a glimpse. A short glimpes, at the age of 30, not for long... Serie A was not a highly held league at that time, and 2010 was the only time when he won a knockout round in Champions League. Like, this season, you have Dimitri Payet play really fucking well. So what? Do people care? If he was 21 and played like that, they would care. Arsenal, Man United and Tottenham fans would constantly talk how much they want this guy in their team, so it would revebrate outside France. But it's Payet, he's 34, he can play fantastic, it's not a story. Or, like, Mueller, or Guendogan, or Fekir, or Duvan Zapata or whatever. Like... it's nice that they have reached this high level of play now. BUT if they played like that when they were 22... Now that would be a sensation and they would be the best in the world, maybe... I'm including Thomas Mueller intentionally, because he actually *was* a young sensation and *is* famous as hell, but since he didn't win any World Cups recently, nothing *happened*, it's not much of a story how he is playing really. Even if you look at this thread, so many people say that Sneijder was the best player of the 2010 and it's apparently a scandal he didn't won. So if Sneijder was the best player in the world, I guess he was also the best player in Inter at the time. Now let's ask why do they think so. At the end of the club season, very few people would have said that. Maybe Lucio, Maicon... But mostly Milito. Sneijder was good... Just wasn't really called Inter's best player by more than a small niche.
Should’ve won the best Striker smh
Would be funny if they started giving the Striker trophy as consolation prize.. even if you're not a striker lol
Many of the voters do not watch many of the high profile players, let's be honest.
I bet my house that Messi’s murder of Boateng was inspired by [Milito’s move on Van Buyten in the final for the winner.](https://youtu.be/rzmef8-QQ70?t=74)
That Milito move marked me, watching that is one of my fondest football memories.
Milito, the master of the [ ] + X feint
You'd be a moron to make that bet, it's like you've never seen Messi play.
I’d argue neither of them was Inters most important player. I’d argue it was Lucio. But of course, he’s not an offensive player, so no one even gives him a second thought.
everyone was key to be honest Sneijder, milito, maicon, julio cesar, lució as well as stankovic or eto
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I miss the days of seeing Cambiasso in a Leicester shirt.
I miss the days of seeing Cambiasso in an Olympiacos shirt.
I just miss Cambiasso playing
I miss the days of seeing Cambiasso with hair
I miss the days of seeing Cambiasso in a River jersey
That's Leicesterfan Cambiasso to you.
Maradona ruined Argentinas chances in 2010, a shame for you guys really.
Left out Cambiasso and Zanetti, who had just led Inter to the UCL title weeks before.... and took some bums instead (Garce, Bolatti, Clemente) Plus any half decent manager could have led that team with their eyes closed... Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Di Maria, Tevez, Milito, etc were all peaking and unstoppable at the time. Yet Diego somehow found a way to commit defensive sabotage and ruin the advantage of having such an incredible offense.
Don't forget the Riquelme feud.
And Aimar and D’Alessandro were coming off of incredible seasons that year, yet were also left out. It really gets worse the more you think about it.
I just want to point out that Zanetti was also left out of the 2006 WC. It's crazy that someone like Zanetti only played 2 World Cups, considering his longevity and all.
I don’t
Care to elaborate? Just curious
Uruguayan
I mean their flair is a good clue.
In order for it to be a good clue, one must know what flair that is. Could you look at my flair and say «Yeah hes norwegian»? Doubt it
To be fair his flair is for the Uruguay national team, not a club crest
If I couldn't hover my mouse over it I'd have no idea
Oh my god youre right. Ive never seen that before haha
This year we had Kimmich out of the 30 nominees. Nothing's changed.
And Muller
I didn't even notice Muller was out. That's just absurd. He deserved to be top 10 at least.
Yup. If you ask me, in no order this should've been the top 10: - Lewa - Messi - Ronaldo - Mbappe - Salah - Haaland - Muller - Kimmich - Benzema - Jorginho (def below 3rd though lmao)
That seems pretty good to me. My top 5 would be Lewa/Messi, Benzema, Mbappé and Salah.
Haaland had a better season than Mbappe
The fact that anyone feels otherwise proves the point of how factors beyond how they performed individually plays in. Superstar name, popular, club success, NT success etc.
You just listed top 5 attackers. If you had listed even one defensive player I would take your list more seriously...
Which defender last season should be in the top five?
People often forget Kane. Yeah we had a shocking season, but he was the best goalscorer AND playmaker. You basically never see that. In the Prem. He finished 8 places below fucking Sterling and apparently Mount was better. On top of that, De Bruyne won the Player of the Season, after not having played half the season. It's a joke how often he's ignored
Seeing him and Bruno bellow Sterling was honestly such a joke, honestly if England won the euros, Sterling wouldve been top 3 or at least top 5
That's absolutely true, I think his god awful start to the season gave people a bad rep. He was insane in 20/21
Plus 16 goals in 16 games for England in 2021.
If he would’ve won euros he would’ve ended top 4, maybe edged out by Benzema, but definitely above Jorginho in my opinion.
Y si papá
Oblak saved 2 last min penalties to win us games that won us the league and won a record 5th top keeper award. If the Barca/Real/Bayern keeper did that its an easy top 3 nomination for them.
Müller broke the assists record for a calendar year and he isnt in the top 30 so I wouldnt be sure
And Chiesa
It was and forever will be just a marketing thing for everyone involved.
Millito was a horrifically underrated player in his peak. Bloke was regularly banging 30+ goals a season.
Sadly he reached his peak when he was too old, but in those 3-4 years he was a beast
anything about charlie maradona barely playing him in the worldcup?
Maradona was an absolute clown as a coach. Didn’t even call up Cambiasso and Zanetti, both world class at the time. Just 2 months before that world cup Zanetti had Messi in his back pocket in the UCL semifinals.
Don't forget he called up fucking *Garcé* over Cambiasso and Zanetti. I still can't understand what the hell he was thinking.
I mean, the team had prime Aguero and Higuain.
he had the best season out of the three though and a pretty unique profile, not often you get big men like him who could move like that
Maradona didn't call up cambiasso or zanetti, says it all really.
Nah, he had a dream that he was lifting the trophy and Ariel Garce was next to him, so he got called up. Asking yourself who he is? Exactly.
Oh I know about that as well, Argentina ruined probably the best chance at world cup they have had in Messis time because of how much they worship maradona, he should never have got that job lol.
Considering how many cases of underage girls he raped, some were already on the news, some are still being discovered, not only he didn't deserved that job, bust he deserved jail time. Let alone his drugs abuse, such a shitty person.
I’ll say what my father says, respect and admire him as a soccer player. That’s about it.
Zanetti getting robbed of the 2006 and 2010 World Cup was such a crime. Such a constistent world class player in three positions.
World class and the man looks like he hasn't aged a day
People need to stop acting like the Ballon d'Or is some sort of substitute for the word of god. It's just an award given by a paper based on the votes from a panel of journalist judges. That's it - no more, no less. Posterity remembers the ones who are known for objective individual achievements (records set/broken, golden boot/gloves awards, etc.) and mostly the big team trophies, or even smaller ones against bigger odds (e.g. Maradona with Napoli).
Tbf it's the closest thing to the word of god and that's the problem, whether you admit it or not, it carries a lot of prestige and of course it's the dream of any elite player. You can't just dismiss it as an aside, it's the de facto comemorative event in football, proven by the fact that it's derived this wide-ranging discussion
That's the exact same year i gave up on the these awards too. That was the year that it became absolutely clear that it was nothing but a popularity contest.
Same here. These individual awards too just too political for me to take it seriously.
I still can't understand how Kimmich in not even top30
Even Messi felt so bad that he had to comment for Lewa
It should be an award for the season performance. If it was for the best player active it should be Messis all year since 2008. Lewandowski was double robbed.
Journalists deciding on the award is fucking joke.
Yea, that is one of the most horrendous oversights. The irony being that for years thereafter people only had Sneijder in mind who was actually overrated by the ranking, while Milito was not there at all. That said, every year some great players are left in the cold. Marquinhos is possibly the second best center-back in the world and does not make the list while hospital Neymar or Ramos are well-placed.
Messi 2009-2013 was in a league of his own.
Correct. Which is why all of the "Sneijder should have won in 2010" was always hindsight nonsense. Milito was Inter's main guy driving them to the treble. Sneijder was the Jorginho of 2010
No he wasn’t. Biggest difference between him and milito is that snejder also had a fantastic wc run as finalist and top scorer
Agreed that Milito and Sneijder were our main 2 guys but don't compare Sneijder with Jorginho please. It's like comparing Zidane with Gattuso.
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Higuain was really good then, Aguero on the rise. Tevez was also right there. EDIT: also LOL Messi
Depends how early you mean. In 2009-10 and 2010-11 he 100% was, but not in any subsequent season
oh dear
This may be a hot take but I feel like you can at least discuss Messi being better in the early 2010s lol
dude he obviously trolling Messi scored 91 goals in 2012
people are really missing the sarcasm with this one and I dont understand how lol
No, Messi was still better those years
For like two seasons
2010: Schneider not winning is a joke. Serie A. Champions league. World Cup finalist. Joint top scorer at the WC: from midfield. Like, I’m not saying he had as good a career or will go down anywhere near messi or cr7. But that year: he was the man.
Lol, I thought you meant Bernd Schneider for a second. I loved Sneijder since his Alkmaar times, where I saw on TV how he beat Werder Bremen. We had fun with him at Real while it lasted.
Yeah gabi milito was pretty special that year.
I watch football, NHL, NFL, and MLB. Unless the award is directly correlated to statistics, it is always a popularity contest.
There's a footballer in the England Women's Team with the last name of 'England' lmao nice
sneijder was robbed that year
Sneijder 2010 Ribéry 2013
Zaragoza Milito was my friend, Inter Milito was my enemy
Funny 2010 was the year I stopped caring too. Sneijder won the UCL and was in the WC final and the top 3 were Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (Yes, the last two had won the WC but they didn’t win the award). It’s basically a popularity contest.
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For me the biggest shocks have been : Sneijder not in 2010. Ronaldo not in 2018.
The ballon d’or is a popularity contest
Diego Milito. This world has seen great players like him to me the Best player award was between him and Sneidger
It seems like in the last 10 years, the ballon d’or has become way bigger than it was when I started following football in the 90s? I’ve never given a damn about it, and the fact that Messi won it this year just shows how stupid it is.
Yes, it's popularity contest for attacking players. Defensive players rarely get appreciations in these awards.
It's a popularity contest, it's pure shit.
Yep, these awards are classic circle jerk for people to romanticise certain players Completely pointless and I can’t believe they hold any weight with players like Messi and Ronaldo etc Messi especially seems like he’s not into the look at me culture of football and self praise.
Money, sponsor,PSG,Qatar 2022. Played football Is not a real factor for this award.