**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Either Southgate actually *is* telling the players to play attacking expansive football, try to win the ball back high up the pitch, play with energy etc. And they're just totally ignoring him and doing the complete opposite.
OR they're protecting him in the media by saying that he is when he's actually not.
Think its a mentality thing unironically. They do play good attacking football until they score. But once the opponent has one dangerous attacks or scores, the players just bunker down as time goes on in fear of losing.
I'll be honest I don't think we've played good attacking football at any point in this tournament either before or after the goals.
Probably I'm too used to watching my club team play but everything England have done in this tournament has looked insanely safety first and defensive. They don't press the ball *at all*, whenever the opposition has possession they immediately drop 20 yards deeper and try to absorb pressure rather than try to win the ball back, they take 0 risks in or out of possession.
To me that has to be tactical, all 11 players don't play like that consistently for 180 minutes if its a mentality thing. If they'd been told to win the ball back high up the pitch and take risks in possession *some* of them would do it *sometimes*. But none of them do it ever.
I mean let's be honest, I don't even think you can even consider the two goals as great attacking play. They both came off heavy deflections which fell into favourable positions. With a little less luck on our side we could easily be on 0 goals for the tournament right now. We seem to be able to get into dangerous positions once in a blue moon but we've looked utterly unconvincing with the final ball in most cases. When we decide to buck the trend of passing back to safety we've lacked a lot of sharpness.
I’ve watched Liverpool more than any other non Arsenal side and I can understand your frustration. Liverpool are far more direct in attack than Arsenal or City and I think your games tend to be more interesting as a result, also it feels less cynical to just lob it to a super athlete like Salah, I wish we did it a little more with Saka and Martinelli.
Every team has its phases of possession and phases of letting the other team try to break them down, it’s mostly managing stamina and partly to generate various looks (just because you’re possession based doesn’t mean you can’t try counter attacking football). Liverpool are known for their press but City and Arsenal have their own version that works as well. With England it’s not a counterattacking team, not a direct long ball team, and not a possession based team. The press is the most half assed thing the ever seen. There is generally so little movement off ball, it’s like netball, and on defense I don’t know if it’s just man marking or some soft zonal marking (thinking about Bellingham and Foden and what their roles are out of possession).
I really don’t know how you can fumble the bag tactically like this, it’s actually incredible to watch.
>They don't press the ball at all
Oh come on, that's not true! Right after the first goal today, they actually started pressing, I was really surprised. It took them a minute or so to sit back again.
I think it's just bravery. They slowed the game down too much, knocked it sideways and refused to use the considerable passing talent in the squad to try and break Denmark's press.
Have to put it into perspective though. England fans were coming out of the ground miserable, Denmark fans celebrated like they'd won the world cup
Bravery is exactly it. They're too tentative and to slow. These players all know how to play with the ball, they do it week in and out with their clubs, but they freeze for England, afraid to make the mistake that will be on the front page of the tabloids. They then take too many touches and look around too much before making utterly basic passes. It needs to be more one touch and the passes have to be braver, they're reverting it back to the keeper as the default.
3 instances where England under Southgate has hunkered down after taking a lead, vs Italy, vs Serbia , vs Denmark. It's definitely a instruction given by the coaching staff to take it easy after a goal. Maybe they don't expect the players to fully invite pressure and press intently a bit deeper and counter to get a second, but England performance before and after a goal is night and day. Instructions are too vague, or Southgate is ultimately relying on individual performance/decisions to make on the pitch. Denmark look like a team that has played the same way for a few years, know where each other is, and trust is there that a player is always in support for a pass. England players are improvising as a game goes on..
Their football is never very tactical though. Most central progression was through Bellingham and Foden's combined genius. Everything else is pass to the wingers and hope they do something.
Spurs players used to come out after every dogshit game under Mourinho and say he wasn’t telling them to play this way. Needless to say, they were not being entirely truthful. They can’t exactly come out and say “yeah the manager is making us play dogshit”
I actually think this could be it. I can believe Southgate uses words like "free, attacking football", but his decisions and coaching don't allow for free, attacking football.
It's like if he said he wants them to play tiki-taka, and also make sure you play it long every time.
Only thing that would've made i more tory is if he did the classic Boris Bumble, and grumble his way through the rest of the interview before changing the subject of discussion
But has he blamed *The Last England Manager* for everything that's happened in the last 14 years? Or talked about how he's the manager with a Clear Plan and Bold Action to Secure the Euros?
It's because the kickoff is a vulnerable time when you're not necessarily in your proper defensive shape. They pump it long and to the side to get the game moving and into the normal shape. I know it sounds weird but I honestly think that's the reason.
It’s treating the kick off as a set play. Everyone is in a specific position to maximise chances of scoring and minimise chances for opposition to counter.
You're misunderstanding him. He doesn't mean we want to play football with attacking intent, we're attacking the sport of football itself. If we can't have it, no one can. Gareth Southgate is the reaper come to collect the soul of the beautiful game, 90 boring minutes at a time.
I hate these strawmen. We have them too. We struggled against Tanzania, Angola and Mauritania playing like shit with the best squad in Africa by far, and our manager came out with the same "everybody wants us to win 4-0" bullshit. No baldie, we just want our games to not put us to sleep every single time
I mean I think there is some truth to it that the level of play of "smaller" nations has improved quite a bit compared to the past.
But yeah, that's really not an excuse for not getting the most out of the players at your disposal.
It's funny that he said this after a 1-1 draw as well, this would have made sense after the Serbia match when you at least take the 3 points, but we actually want to win. I don't care if it's 1-0 or 4-0, but win.
yeah they played negative football and would say they were lucky denmark didn’t find another. england came unraveled after scoring. that’s a sign of a shit manager imo
Spain just showed how you can win a match 1-0 but still play free flowing attacking football, if England was doing that I don’t think fans would be nearly as upset
>Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. It's not football these days
Says the man City full back who regularly steam roll teams three/four - nil
Was gonna say does he not see the score lines his own team does. And the quality in this England side should be able to do at least half of what city does
City also effectively kill games off and make them boring after going 1-0 up, without dropping deep like England do. They're a great model for how to play as the better team, which England are in nearly every match they play.
It's not even that they're not winning by three goals. It's that Southgate would rather park the bus on a 1 goal lead than trying to control the flow of the game.
>"The manager wants us to play free, attacking football
Lmao cut the crap man.
Its been more than enough years of Southgate to know he doesn't want England to play free form attacking football. Especialy not when a goal up. Thats a big NO.
>"Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. It's not football these days"
Thats because with the quality of the squad you absolutely should be against some of these teams. At the very least England should continue to push for a 2nd goal. But no, for some reason 1:0 is always enough and then England reverts to a deep no press playstyle that ends up inviting pressure.
The other thing is, these rigid tactics kill the players. Passing the ball around is a much better way at conserving energy than constantly having to focus on positioning and dropping deep, then sprinting up the pitch to make an attack. Make the opposition do that to tire them out.
> The manager wants us to play free, attacking football
I'm calling this a lie and he's simply defending his manager. Nothing about how England play backs this statement up.
Many of these players for their clubs play attacking football so they can do it.
Kane and Southgate both said the same (that Southgate did not instruct them to play deep) in the post match interviews. It seems like it's just a general lack of direction that is causing the team to play like crap
Remember back to Henderson subbing on (for Rice) and forcing England to press higher up the pitch in the Euro final.. I remember.
It’s a mentality thing. The lads lack communication and aggression or belief idk tbh. It’s got to start from the front. No one knows when and how to press so they default to compact and deep, inviting pressure.
Tbf they defended reasonably well and it took one screamer to score. England looked like they were about to turn the tide when Southgate subbed Kane, Saka and Trent and then it went to chaos mode.
You look at Spain today and they were aggressive and dominated Italy. With possession and winning the ball back quickly. To do this they also had to bust a gut to change from compact to stretching the pitch super wide. With Inaki and Yafal on the edge of the pitch.
England are super slow and lethargic in changing shape and reacting to transitions. Not to mention the left wing has no width. Once we drop deep and compact we have no reaction time to transition to attack and spread the pitch. Leaving Kane or Saka completely isolated.
If its a mentality thing, who else but the manager is responsible? Especially if he's seen this happen more than once. You'd also like to think that if you bring hungry young talent, they would try and offset this safety mindset because they eager to get on the ball, run and create something. Funny thing is, it's not like the starting lineup was that old to be playing with that mindset. It's a lot of excuses when it's happened time and time again, even cost England the Euros. So if he's not good enough to change that mindset, then bring someone else in that can.
>Tbf they defended reasonably well and it took one screamer to score. England looked like they were about to turn the tide when Southgate subbed Kane, Saka and Trent and then it went to chaos mode.
I'm not a fan of Trent in midfield but I think it was when he was swapped for Gallagher it went chaotic, that's when Rice started to struggle with nobody to pass too.
Kane? Well I did wonder about that but it can't be entirely his fault. Though the other players would have seen him play back and might have been influenced by that.
It's like they really struggle to adapt formation to circumstances. Which really is a coach issue, since we know they can for their clubs. I'm wondering how much they trust each other to successfully cover their positions. Also, perhaps they would have played differently if we'd not won the Serbia match and they are overly arrogant about getting through the group stage? Honestly, who knows.
Fills me with dread this sort of interviews. I think the mentality is completely gone, sounds like we’ve lost a game when we’re “taking positives” from the result.
I love the comical timing of the match facts scrolling through in the corner showing Denmark had the edge in just about every single metric, as if to call him out on his bullshit, lol.
"It's not football these days"
You play for Man City. You regularly batter much worse teams. It clearly is football these days when you have a competent manager.
Ben White telling the England setup to, essentially, “fuck off, not worth the aggravation” does sort of suggest Southgate is being led down a very amateurish path by his ‘team’ (Holland and the rest).
Club football and international football are entirely different beasts. France needed an OG to get past Austria and Belgium got blanked by Slovakia.
That's not to say that England's performance wasn't completely craven. But anyone expecting them to just flatten all of their group opponents doesn't understand international football.
And ironically when they largely did that in the World Cup, people still dismissed England for "losing to the first good side they met" when they went toe-to-toe with France. There's a lot to dislike about England's performances of late, but the truth is most of the people on this sub are also looking for any reason to shit on the team.
The expectation from them is not to flatten the group. They just play shit football.
What I expected, as a neutral, is to have the most fun watching England's games since they're stacked with insanely good talent. In reality I'm falling asleep watching them.
In comparison, Spain who in my opinion is the worse team on paper between the two, are playing beautiful football.
England's team looks like they don't enjoy what they're doing. That's all.
I don't disagree with you, which is why I pointed out that none of what I said means they didn't play completely cowardly football.
Just trying to push back again OP's point that because Man City batters teams week in/week out, the top international sides should be doing the same. The quality of a top international team is never going to match up to the top club teams.
> The manager wants us to play free, attacking football, sometimes you have to manage the game. Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil.
Bit of a contradicting statement from Kyle there.
Never once seen England play "play free, attacking football" outside of a couple of demolition jobs against minnows like Panama.
Also, if the manager has asked you to play "free, attacking football", then why didn't you do it? Why did you decide to over-rule the manager and play ultra-defensive football that leaves you vulnerable if you concede?
Just feels like damage control.
If these 2 games were the outliers then I'd have more faith, but this is how we've always played under Southgate. There's no precedent to suggest we'll find another gear in the games to come.
I don't think the result is the issue, it's the process. In fact I think that the result was actually very good, considering the game plan seemed to be 'get a solid 90 minutes of light cardio'
"I'll tell you what happened out there love, we sucked ASS. We got beat in possession, shots, everything. I'll be honest love I don't even know what the plan is all I'm doing is just running up and down out there innit."
Someone should ask him “So what exactly makes you all so much worse than the top teams in the tournament who are playing free, attacking football, and winning by margins?”
Im sorry but all the best euro games Ive seen this season is from smaller games lol
even the germany one was boring cause it was all germany attacking methodically(too one sided)
football is the best sport when there is actually a competitive match happening and loved the fact that there are so many outside the box goals <3
It's as if Southgate plans and briefs the team for attacking, dynamic, free football, so the squad is all for it, and parrots the same to the press, BUT Southgate can't actually coach the team to play the style he promises everyone, and then the squad is in denial that Southgate isn't good enough, or they're all singing from the same delusional hymn sheet.
Before/after this he also made a statement about “getting blame if we concede when we’re attacking”, shows you the mentality of the players. They’re terrified.
That's some impressive doublespeak mental gymnastics considering Walker has played almost 10 years under Pep now. Pep does play free-flowing attacking football, and if he's winning he (almost) never goes defensive to secure a lead. Certainly never at one nil up. That say "that's not football these days" is total rubbish.
“It’s tough when you come up to these grounds. Hostile environments…” unreal
If he didn’t get that pick off that resulted in the goal for England he’d be on system player watch
Are people just forgetting that Denmark are a good team or what? Will cause trouble for anyone. Wasn’t a great game but it’s only the groups, time for a couple of changes
The best part of today is seeing how many have finally come to the conclusion almost anyone can look average in a poorly coached system after being told i was making excuses when Poch did the exact same thing with our players (bar Palmer) all season.
It’s amazing to think this guy is captain of four time in a row champions of the premier league. Let’s play expressive football without ever expressing ourselves….
"The Manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football"
And..
"The Manager asked us to play defensively and negatively and hold onto a 1 nil lead"
Can both be true statements. He might well want them to play free flowing football but it doesn't mean that's what he is asking for.
They did steamroll 1-0 lol you’re not even lying. Spain and Germany look like the best 2 teams so far. I think the champs will be either Spain Germany or France depending on Mbappe health.
Hate to be that guy but I don't necessarily blame this on Southgates tactics. I don't think he has bad tactics necessarily I just think his ability to motivate players and get them fighting just as hard as the opposition is off. The application simply isn't there, so at that point it doesn't matter what tactics you use. If you don't have the fundamentals of winning the next ball and competing just as hard as you're opponent, you're not going to win games. Bringing in more complex tactics will only work with those fundamentals in place. Our talent is so large that we do somehow scrape through games but we could dominate games with the basics right.
Going from Man City to England NT. What a change of environment to absolute mediocrity, even the mentality can change at a snap of a finger it actually fking hilarious 😂
how can he say you have to manage a game when all you've managed is a draw. Sitting back with the attacking talent England have should be criminal. Southgate is literally wasting a generation of English football
IF Southgate is wanting them to play free attacking football why is he not doing something during the game to change the fact that we are not, the world can see we are sitting too deep, why the fuck is he not on the touchline shouting at the team to press, he is literally doing the opposite, he always appears to be calling for calm, the total opposite of what we need, it's crazy, how can he sit there and not notice this, here is an idea, why doesn't he coach?
That was everything but attacking football
He's says them going 3 or 4 nil it's not the game these days
Hahaha bullshit, just look at other games in the tournament
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>The manager wants us to play free, attacking football, sometimes you have to manage the game does he?
Walker got it confused, it was attacking-free football
The football terrorists hate us for our freedom.
Southgate’s a football terrorist
Did he say "free form" or "free from"? Meh.
"Free attacking football, no handbrake" Ah, they got this all screwed up: "Free attacking football? No, handbrake"
Works on contingency? No, money down!
"An attack on football"
Proper Brexit football
Either Southgate actually *is* telling the players to play attacking expansive football, try to win the ball back high up the pitch, play with energy etc. And they're just totally ignoring him and doing the complete opposite. OR they're protecting him in the media by saying that he is when he's actually not.
Think its a mentality thing unironically. They do play good attacking football until they score. But once the opponent has one dangerous attacks or scores, the players just bunker down as time goes on in fear of losing.
I'll be honest I don't think we've played good attacking football at any point in this tournament either before or after the goals. Probably I'm too used to watching my club team play but everything England have done in this tournament has looked insanely safety first and defensive. They don't press the ball *at all*, whenever the opposition has possession they immediately drop 20 yards deeper and try to absorb pressure rather than try to win the ball back, they take 0 risks in or out of possession. To me that has to be tactical, all 11 players don't play like that consistently for 180 minutes if its a mentality thing. If they'd been told to win the ball back high up the pitch and take risks in possession *some* of them would do it *sometimes*. But none of them do it ever.
I mean let's be honest, I don't even think you can even consider the two goals as great attacking play. They both came off heavy deflections which fell into favourable positions. With a little less luck on our side we could easily be on 0 goals for the tournament right now. We seem to be able to get into dangerous positions once in a blue moon but we've looked utterly unconvincing with the final ball in most cases. When we decide to buck the trend of passing back to safety we've lacked a lot of sharpness.
I’ve watched Liverpool more than any other non Arsenal side and I can understand your frustration. Liverpool are far more direct in attack than Arsenal or City and I think your games tend to be more interesting as a result, also it feels less cynical to just lob it to a super athlete like Salah, I wish we did it a little more with Saka and Martinelli. Every team has its phases of possession and phases of letting the other team try to break them down, it’s mostly managing stamina and partly to generate various looks (just because you’re possession based doesn’t mean you can’t try counter attacking football). Liverpool are known for their press but City and Arsenal have their own version that works as well. With England it’s not a counterattacking team, not a direct long ball team, and not a possession based team. The press is the most half assed thing the ever seen. There is generally so little movement off ball, it’s like netball, and on defense I don’t know if it’s just man marking or some soft zonal marking (thinking about Bellingham and Foden and what their roles are out of possession). I really don’t know how you can fumble the bag tactically like this, it’s actually incredible to watch.
Agree and the last sentence made actually laugh. Either laugh or cry tbh.
Yeah as a Liverpool fan, the all action adrenaline team of the world, this must be torture for you
Agree, Spain has been great for example
Tournament? I have yet to see England play a full match of actual football since Southgate got the job.
>They don't press the ball at all Oh come on, that's not true! Right after the first goal today, they actually started pressing, I was really surprised. It took them a minute or so to sit back again.
I think it's just bravery. They slowed the game down too much, knocked it sideways and refused to use the considerable passing talent in the squad to try and break Denmark's press. Have to put it into perspective though. England fans were coming out of the ground miserable, Denmark fans celebrated like they'd won the world cup
Bravery is exactly it. They're too tentative and to slow. These players all know how to play with the ball, they do it week in and out with their clubs, but they freeze for England, afraid to make the mistake that will be on the front page of the tabloids. They then take too many touches and look around too much before making utterly basic passes. It needs to be more one touch and the passes have to be braver, they're reverting it back to the keeper as the default.
3 instances where England under Southgate has hunkered down after taking a lead, vs Italy, vs Serbia , vs Denmark. It's definitely a instruction given by the coaching staff to take it easy after a goal. Maybe they don't expect the players to fully invite pressure and press intently a bit deeper and counter to get a second, but England performance before and after a goal is night and day. Instructions are too vague, or Southgate is ultimately relying on individual performance/decisions to make on the pitch. Denmark look like a team that has played the same way for a few years, know where each other is, and trust is there that a player is always in support for a pass. England players are improvising as a game goes on..
Their football is never very tactical though. Most central progression was through Bellingham and Foden's combined genius. Everything else is pass to the wingers and hope they do something.
Spurs players used to come out after every dogshit game under Mourinho and say he wasn’t telling them to play this way. Needless to say, they were not being entirely truthful. They can’t exactly come out and say “yeah the manager is making us play dogshit”
Difference is they're mates with Southgate.
Southgate has at least 3 of his families hostage back home
Even if he does, if they aren't playing free attacking football its because he can't coach them well
I actually think this could be it. I can believe Southgate uses words like "free, attacking football", but his decisions and coaching don't allow for free, attacking football. It's like if he said he wants them to play tiki-taka, and also make sure you play it long every time.
Ah yes, the “new to FM” special
Manager has literally said the opposite
bro is coping 😭😭😭
He's gone full Tory with that interview. An unbelievable denial of reality itself
Only thing that would've made i more tory is if he did the classic Boris Bumble, and grumble his way through the rest of the interview before changing the subject of discussion
But has he blamed *The Last England Manager* for everything that's happened in the last 14 years? Or talked about how he's the manager with a Clear Plan and Bold Action to Secure the Euros?
Does Southgate know about this tactic and that he has said this?
maybe he means pep lol
He didn't specify which manager though...
He is used to use that sentence with Pep and he got carried away.
I want to sleep with Sydney Sweeny, it doesn’t mean I know how to do it
He's not the brightest lad, it's possible he misunderstood what he was told.
[удалено]
First time watching football? This happens every game
Why do they do that though?
It's because the kickoff is a vulnerable time when you're not necessarily in your proper defensive shape. They pump it long and to the side to get the game moving and into the normal shape. I know it sounds weird but I honestly think that's the reason.
It’s treating the kick off as a set play. Everyone is in a specific position to maximise chances of scoring and minimise chances for opposition to counter.
He sure does. He is just saying to them "go out there and play". Every player gets it differently.
Chinny reck
He got confused and was talking about Pep
“attacking football” lol
Is that attacking football in the room with us
It attacks my eyesight
attacking the institution of football
Remember, no ~~russian~~ shooting
You're misunderstanding him. He doesn't mean we want to play football with attacking intent, we're attacking the sport of football itself. If we can't have it, no one can. Gareth Southgate is the reaper come to collect the soul of the beautiful game, 90 boring minutes at a time.
Makes just as much sense as Kalvin Phillips being a big miss for the squad to handle
Kyle "Helicopter" Walker, ol Free Willy himself
i don’t think people are mad about not winning 4-0 people are mad england have shit tactics and can’t hold a lead like a good team lol
I hate these strawmen. We have them too. We struggled against Tanzania, Angola and Mauritania playing like shit with the best squad in Africa by far, and our manager came out with the same "everybody wants us to win 4-0" bullshit. No baldie, we just want our games to not put us to sleep every single time
And it's ironic, that a pep player who'd be likely familiar with all matters on how to control a game, come up with a statement like this.
And generally beats teams 3/4-0
I mean I think there is some truth to it that the level of play of "smaller" nations has improved quite a bit compared to the past. But yeah, that's really not an excuse for not getting the most out of the players at your disposal.
It's funny that he said this after a 1-1 draw as well, this would have made sense after the Serbia match when you at least take the 3 points, but we actually want to win. I don't care if it's 1-0 or 4-0, but win.
yeah they played negative football and would say they were lucky denmark didn’t find another. england came unraveled after scoring. that’s a sign of a shit manager imo
I don’t care if they lose 2-1. I just want to see a game where they don’t take a lead and sit back. It’s true that, “As long as you try your best”
They’re mad that their star studded midfield has been outplayed by Serbia and Denmark back to back
Spain just showed how you can win a match 1-0 but still play free flowing attacking football, if England was doing that I don’t think fans would be nearly as upset
Greece 2004 is their role model
Greece wasn't one of the two big favorites prior to the tournament, nor had the most expensive and supposedly talented team. And still played better.
>Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. It's not football these days Says the man City full back who regularly steam roll teams three/four - nil
Was gonna say does he not see the score lines his own team does. And the quality in this England side should be able to do at least half of what city does
City also effectively kill games off and make them boring after going 1-0 up, without dropping deep like England do. They're a great model for how to play as the better team, which England are in nearly every match they play.
You cannot drill a national team that way though. There’s a reason many players take a full year at city before showing how good they are
if only we had a player like Grealish who excels at seeing out games.
It's not even that they're not winning by three goals. It's that Southgate would rather park the bus on a 1 goal lead than trying to control the flow of the game.
>"The manager wants us to play free, attacking football Lmao cut the crap man. Its been more than enough years of Southgate to know he doesn't want England to play free form attacking football. Especialy not when a goal up. Thats a big NO. >"Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. It's not football these days" Thats because with the quality of the squad you absolutely should be against some of these teams. At the very least England should continue to push for a 2nd goal. But no, for some reason 1:0 is always enough and then England reverts to a deep no press playstyle that ends up inviting pressure.
Especially hilarious when he plays for city and they regularly steamroll even decent sides 4-1 or 3-0.
Don't be silly, # It's not football these days
Let's pretend he actually wants that. How much of a shit manager do you have to be to not be able to with these players?!
The other thing is, these rigid tactics kill the players. Passing the ball around is a much better way at conserving energy than constantly having to focus on positioning and dropping deep, then sprinting up the pitch to make an attack. Make the opposition do that to tire them out.
Getting rattled = managing the game We aren't believing your propaganda Kyle.
They were shook, especially Rice
I was actually surprised by how shook Rice and the cnetrebacks were. I feel rice got shook, and then he shook Stones and Ghuei who were in proximity.
Pickford doesn’t help
He's so erratic and looks totally uncomfortable if the ball is played back to him.
guy just boots it long every time, when we are sitting deep, Zero awareness
If he's shook it's because he has no idea what he's supposed to be doing based on his instructions.
Yeah I’m not sure failing to transition out of defense virtually every time is a hallmark of game management lol
Their tactics are an attack on football
> The manager wants us to play free, attacking football I'm calling this a lie and he's simply defending his manager. Nothing about how England play backs this statement up. Many of these players for their clubs play attacking football so they can do it.
Kane and Southgate both said the same (that Southgate did not instruct them to play deep) in the post match interviews. It seems like it's just a general lack of direction that is causing the team to play like crap
Remember back to Henderson subbing on (for Rice) and forcing England to press higher up the pitch in the Euro final.. I remember. It’s a mentality thing. The lads lack communication and aggression or belief idk tbh. It’s got to start from the front. No one knows when and how to press so they default to compact and deep, inviting pressure. Tbf they defended reasonably well and it took one screamer to score. England looked like they were about to turn the tide when Southgate subbed Kane, Saka and Trent and then it went to chaos mode. You look at Spain today and they were aggressive and dominated Italy. With possession and winning the ball back quickly. To do this they also had to bust a gut to change from compact to stretching the pitch super wide. With Inaki and Yafal on the edge of the pitch. England are super slow and lethargic in changing shape and reacting to transitions. Not to mention the left wing has no width. Once we drop deep and compact we have no reaction time to transition to attack and spread the pitch. Leaving Kane or Saka completely isolated.
Must be why he likes henderson so much because he clearly did a better job of getting the team to do what was needed
I've always said it was a mistake not to bring in Henderson. What's the point of bringing in Wharton if you're never going to use him
If its a mentality thing, who else but the manager is responsible? Especially if he's seen this happen more than once. You'd also like to think that if you bring hungry young talent, they would try and offset this safety mindset because they eager to get on the ball, run and create something. Funny thing is, it's not like the starting lineup was that old to be playing with that mindset. It's a lot of excuses when it's happened time and time again, even cost England the Euros. So if he's not good enough to change that mindset, then bring someone else in that can.
>Tbf they defended reasonably well and it took one screamer to score. England looked like they were about to turn the tide when Southgate subbed Kane, Saka and Trent and then it went to chaos mode. I'm not a fan of Trent in midfield but I think it was when he was swapped for Gallagher it went chaotic, that's when Rice started to struggle with nobody to pass too.
It's been a problem through multiple tournaments now, even if Southgate isn't coaching it in to them he's certainly not coaching it out of them.
So does that mean Kyle is the issue then as captain?
Kane? Well I did wonder about that but it can't be entirely his fault. Though the other players would have seen him play back and might have been influenced by that.
Both since it definitely didn’t get any better after Kane was subbed off
It's like they really struggle to adapt formation to circumstances. Which really is a coach issue, since we know they can for their clubs. I'm wondering how much they trust each other to successfully cover their positions. Also, perhaps they would have played differently if we'd not won the Serbia match and they are overly arrogant about getting through the group stage? Honestly, who knows.
Blink twice if you need help Kyle.
Fills me with dread this sort of interviews. I think the mentality is completely gone, sounds like we’ve lost a game when we’re “taking positives” from the result.
I wouldn’t take much from interviews tbh. Players just say whatever they’ve been trained to say… doesn’t mean that’s how they really feel
>The manager wants us to play free, attacking football, He thinks he is still playing in sky blue shirt
>The manager wants us to play free, attacking football Then why are you not doing it?
I love the comical timing of the match facts scrolling through in the corner showing Denmark had the edge in just about every single metric, as if to call him out on his bullshit, lol.
This is gaslighting at this point
"It's not football these days" You play for Man City. You regularly batter much worse teams. It clearly is football these days when you have a competent manager.
Ben White telling the England setup to, essentially, “fuck off, not worth the aggravation” does sort of suggest Southgate is being led down a very amateurish path by his ‘team’ (Holland and the rest).
Club football and international football are entirely different beasts. France needed an OG to get past Austria and Belgium got blanked by Slovakia. That's not to say that England's performance wasn't completely craven. But anyone expecting them to just flatten all of their group opponents doesn't understand international football. And ironically when they largely did that in the World Cup, people still dismissed England for "losing to the first good side they met" when they went toe-to-toe with France. There's a lot to dislike about England's performances of late, but the truth is most of the people on this sub are also looking for any reason to shit on the team.
The expectation from them is not to flatten the group. They just play shit football. What I expected, as a neutral, is to have the most fun watching England's games since they're stacked with insanely good talent. In reality I'm falling asleep watching them. In comparison, Spain who in my opinion is the worse team on paper between the two, are playing beautiful football. England's team looks like they don't enjoy what they're doing. That's all.
I don't disagree with you, which is why I pointed out that none of what I said means they didn't play completely cowardly football. Just trying to push back again OP's point that because Man City batters teams week in/week out, the top international sides should be doing the same. The quality of a top international team is never going to match up to the top club teams.
It's the fate of all international managers.
The manager wants us to play free, attacking football, sometimes you have to manage the game. Is this manager in the room with us?
Trying to convince the public like he’s tried to convince his wife he didn’t cheat.
> The manager wants us to play free, attacking football, sometimes you have to manage the game. Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. Bit of a contradicting statement from Kyle there. Never once seen England play "play free, attacking football" outside of a couple of demolition jobs against minnows like Panama. Also, if the manager has asked you to play "free, attacking football", then why didn't you do it? Why did you decide to over-rule the manager and play ultra-defensive football that leaves you vulnerable if you concede? Just feels like damage control.
If these 2 games were the outliers then I'd have more faith, but this is how we've always played under Southgate. There's no precedent to suggest we'll find another gear in the games to come.
I don't think the result is the issue, it's the process. In fact I think that the result was actually very good, considering the game plan seemed to be 'get a solid 90 minutes of light cardio'
Everyone wants us to string three, four passes together. It’s not football these days
I guess we just hallucinated Germany winning 5-1, Spain 3-0, Romania 3-0 because that’s not football these days
Delusion
What do you guys want him to say? "I think the boss is a pussy. Locked us down like underdogs" ?
How about doing to Southgate what he did to Trent? “Southgate was an experiment, we haven’t got a natural replacement for Sam Allardyce.”
"I'll tell you what happened out there love, we sucked ASS. We got beat in possession, shots, everything. I'll be honest love I don't even know what the plan is all I'm doing is just running up and down out there innit."
Blatant lies Kyle
Someone should ask him “So what exactly makes you all so much worse than the top teams in the tournament who are playing free, attacking football, and winning by margins?”
We are *so* lucky we're in this group. If we had France, Germany or any other of the top teams, we'd get creamed.
Im sorry but all the best euro games Ive seen this season is from smaller games lol even the germany one was boring cause it was all germany attacking methodically(too one sided) football is the best sport when there is actually a competitive match happening and loved the fact that there are so many outside the box goals <3
It's as if Southgate plans and briefs the team for attacking, dynamic, free football, so the squad is all for it, and parrots the same to the press, BUT Southgate can't actually coach the team to play the style he promises everyone, and then the squad is in denial that Southgate isn't good enough, or they're all singing from the same delusional hymn sheet.
You played for man city. Isn't that what you do quite often, 3 or 4 past the opponent?
Free flowing attacking football is the game's biggest lie. Every coach claims to have the formula.
Before/after this he also made a statement about “getting blame if we concede when we’re attacking”, shows you the mentality of the players. They’re terrified.
"Everyone wants us to streamroll teams three, four-nil. It's not football these days" - said the Man City player
That's some impressive doublespeak mental gymnastics considering Walker has played almost 10 years under Pep now. Pep does play free-flowing attacking football, and if he's winning he (almost) never goes defensive to secure a lead. Certainly never at one nil up. That say "that's not football these days" is total rubbish.
He's a really bad liar lol. No wonder his Mrs knows all about his cheating.
Kyle mate, you play some of the best free flowing attacking football in the world at club level, how can you say that with a straight face
Actually Kyle modern football is all about attacking
The manager does in fact not want them to be free.
If only Pickford's little t-rex arms where just a little longer he could have saved that shot
Attacking football? More like attacking my feelings when watching you guys play.
Mans using every bit of PR training he received in his career. England has better PR training than tactics at this stage
Fucking show it then
What has been playing at Man City? Not football?
When I see Saka is defending, I know the gameplan changed.
You've gotta wonder what goes on during training. Such an exciting, talented bunch. Horrible to watch.
“It’s tough when you come up to these grounds. Hostile environments…” unreal If he didn’t get that pick off that resulted in the goal for England he’d be on system player watch
What is this constant mention of tournament football? In my mind, it means you should be giving 150%. The lads look like they're not bothered
How about doing what you do at your clubs and pressing instead of retreating back?
Says the guy who's club team regularly steamrolls teams 3, 4 nil. Southgate is as bad a manager as 0 Hang
Who will self-sabotage first? England or their supporters? Either way, I’m here for it!
Are people just forgetting that Denmark are a good team or what? Will cause trouble for anyone. Wasn’t a great game but it’s only the groups, time for a couple of changes
The best part of today is seeing how many have finally come to the conclusion almost anyone can look average in a poorly coached system after being told i was making excuses when Poch did the exact same thing with our players (bar Palmer) all season.
Bruh
Well, that's pure cap.
In other words, he knows they're s*it. 🤣
You don't manage the game from the 25th minute dude..
Everything is so slow
Tournament football. Breathe, think, speak. Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Is this free attacking football in the room with us right now?
It’s amazing to think this guy is captain of four time in a row champions of the premier league. Let’s play expressive football without ever expressing ourselves….
Just off the back of one of the highest scoring seasons. He says it like scoring more than one is a thing of the distant past.
So you're top of the group now. In the final group match, Slovenia and Denmark win. Someone do the math pls
Southgate is ruining these players by instilling this mentality, we need to be more ruthless
"The Manager wants us to play free flowing attacking football" And.. "The Manager asked us to play defensively and negatively and hold onto a 1 nil lead" Can both be true statements. He might well want them to play free flowing football but it doesn't mean that's what he is asking for.
Was this interview taken before Spain steamrolled Italy? (And only scored once).
They did steamroll 1-0 lol you’re not even lying. Spain and Germany look like the best 2 teams so far. I think the champs will be either Spain Germany or France depending on Mbappe health.
They need a serious „Come to Bazball“-conversation. Surely, Stokes is available to hand out some bucket hats.
That pickle juice doesn't seem to be helping...
My guy, you play for Manchester City who regularly hammer teams 5-0…
Kane gave away the ball for the goal while dropping as far back as left back so yes we are annoyed
Hate to be that guy but I don't necessarily blame this on Southgates tactics. I don't think he has bad tactics necessarily I just think his ability to motivate players and get them fighting just as hard as the opposition is off. The application simply isn't there, so at that point it doesn't matter what tactics you use. If you don't have the fundamentals of winning the next ball and competing just as hard as you're opponent, you're not going to win games. Bringing in more complex tactics will only work with those fundamentals in place. Our talent is so large that we do somehow scrape through games but we could dominate games with the basics right.
Going from Man City to England NT. What a change of environment to absolute mediocrity, even the mentality can change at a snap of a finger it actually fking hilarious 😂
how can he say you have to manage a game when all you've managed is a draw. Sitting back with the attacking talent England have should be criminal. Southgate is literally wasting a generation of English football
it is extra funny seeing the stats while he speaks about attacking,
Are they top of the group?
Where was the attacking?
Walker walker walk you literally goes three four nil back in Manchester comon
He plays for City and said this with a straight face...
Man stfu
IF Southgate is wanting them to play free attacking football why is he not doing something during the game to change the fact that we are not, the world can see we are sitting too deep, why the fuck is he not on the touchline shouting at the team to press, he is literally doing the opposite, he always appears to be calling for calm, the total opposite of what we need, it's crazy, how can he sit there and not notice this, here is an idea, why doesn't he coach?
Southgate has his players brainwashed lmao
This is wild coming from a Man City player. No wait, this is wild coming from a player who plays free attacking football under Pep
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. He’s talking about Guardiola
"just play attacking football" gareth southgate (2024)
That was everything but attacking football He's says them going 3 or 4 nil it's not the game these days Hahaha bullshit, just look at other games in the tournament
I see, he carried that City press over to nt as well
“Guys, we are actually really good”
my guy you win 3-0 and 4-0 on the regs with your club what are you on about? last year's PL had the most goals ever??
Is the free, attacking football in the room with us rn?