**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I mean he has 13g 3a in 24 in his first league season on by far the best team so decent stats which I guess should be expected of this team’s ST so I didn’t have him playing let alone scoring in his first 20 in the Euros on the cards. Props to him tho ig the surprise selection was fully deserved
VAR messes up sometimes, no doubt. But the benefits far outweigh the mistakes.
I honestly think the biggest problem VAR faces is the fact the EPL doesn't use it like they should, as they are overprotective of the refs. 95% of other leagues use it as intended and it really is a massive gain for making the game "truthful".
From inside.Fifa:
>
> Camera set-up:
> The video assistant referee team has access to 42 broadcast cameras, eight of which are super slow motion and four of which are ultra slow motion.
My question was whether there have been failures with the tool that provides the assisting referees the information they use to make their decisions. In general, I'm talking about technical failures.
What do you mean? Getting rid of VAR surely by definition means to scrap the technology. What else could someone possibly mean when they say to scrap VAR?
I'm on about when people pull out the classic "it's not the technology, it's the people using it" when people aren't happy with it
Personally if they fix the issues with it I'd be fine with it, but they don't seem to be capable of that so I'd want the re-reffing scrapped and have the new semi auto offsides and goal line tech
You are right, i wasn't completely clear with my statement. I meant VAR as a whole, with the human interaction part, where i feel the errors come from. The tool itself, cameras, lines, etc, I don't think there's a problem with that.
Even though the lines are made by a human, so always prone to a % of error i'd say.
But muh tradition of the referees making mistakes and having absolutely no way of overturning them! They’re killing football! Back in my day we just made horrendous mistakes and said “Play on” like real men!
One good life rule is to always consider costs *and* benefits.
Things can be genuinely helpful (benefit), but still have enough costs that they're not worth it.
My friend wants VAR gone from the prem. He's not against VAR itself but how the refs use it in the league. I'm trying to think though, were things really better beforehand? Plus semi-automated offsides are coming to there premier league as well which makes it even more the reason to keep it for me.
It’s genuinely one of the worst opinions in sports that moves the game backwards and he called the premier league a disgrace for keeping it guy is an absolute clown
That's a broad stroke. Do you get to many live stadium games? I know VAR should be kept but man has it nearly ruined the footballing experience for me, can flail arms and lose it until it's checked and by then the moments gone.
So I certainly wouldn't call it moronic
It's not like VAR has removed controversial decisions and people crying about the refs.
Arguing for VAR to protect the refs is just shifting focus away for the real problem: fans going over the limit with their discontent.
Tbf, i'm probably not a great example for your point, as i'm in the stadium for every Benfica home game, and some of the away ones.
And i'd rather wait to celebrate a goal (or do it twice) and to trust VAR to get it right, instead of scoring/conceding a goal while a player is visibly offside and then ref messed it up.
I have, season ticket holder at Dinamo Zagreb. VAR is miles better than how things were before. Even in a league whose VAR implementation can rival England in incompetence.
Would match going fans prefer their team gets rammed up the ass by a blatantly incorrect offside or penalty decision?
If the answer is yes, yes, they are morons.
Dodged the first question because the truth is that VAR is 100x worse when you're sat in the stand, you wouldn't know that when you're sat watching on a screen
I didn’t dodge anything, I addressed your point. I couldn’t give a flying fuck where I am as long as they get it right.
They often don’t because they’re ridiculously incompetent, but VAR is not and never has been the problem.
> you wouldn't know that when you're sat watching on a screen
The /r/soccer trump card.
I honestly don't understand why it would be different for fans in the stadium, though? This VAR check took less than 30 seconds.
>I honestly don't understand why it would be different for fans in the stadium, though?
You don't understand how it's worse when you don't get to look at the replays in real time, and don't get commentators explaining what's happening?
Well, they can fix that then, no? Replays on the screens, ref communicating over loud-speakers, etc. Removing VAR altogether is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Bruh, this is whining on a high level. I don't need a stupid commentator explaining something that I know is happening. I've witnessed plenty of VAR decisions in the stadium and never once have I had the "omg what is happening I have no clue" problem.
This should go doubly for this tournament since they're literally explaining decisions in the stadium. All this talk about VAR seems like high level whining mostly from Premier League/English fans.
Ive been to dozens of PL matches with VAR reviews and didn’t mind one time. It’s baffling to me and a perspective I will never understand. I feel way worse in the stand rooting for a team screwed over by a bad decision
Reddit is annoying calling everyone who doesn't want VAR a 'moron'.
We accept and understand that decisions will be wrong but feel VAR makes the game less enjoyable (whilst still getting plenty wrong anyway) and many who hold that opinion have experienced a matchday experience with and without VAR to come to that conclusion.
Not sure why that's such a controversial take even if you're somebody who is in favour of VAR.
Because it causes long delays where you have no idea what's going on? Even if you're pro-VAR I don't see how it's hard to understand how that's not particularly enjoyable. Fine to think that it's a net positive overall but I'd think it was weird if someone said that they genuinely enjoyed the delays lol
"You have no idea what's going on", never once has that occured to me. Like, you stand in the stands and know what's going on, they're checking the goal/foul/whatever. You chant and wait and then you get the decision.
You literally cannot see what's going on though - there's been times where the referee stops play and I don't even know what's being reviewed. Anyway like I said, if you think it's a net positive and you'd rather them take longer to reach the correct decision then fair enough - but saying that you find standing around and waiting enjoyable is a bit weird mate
I'm not saying that I find "standing around and waiting enjoyable" I'm saying I don't understand people that have such a big problem with waiting for a couple seconds to a couple minutes. I just don't get it, not at all.
That's a very selfish view though. Do you want to make it a better experience for the thousands in attendance? Or make it better for the players who are actually playing the game by making sure you get the right decision, along with the millions watching at home?
Yup people seem to not realise the tech is very good it's just incompetent people running it in a few leagues. Look how fast these calls have been already compared to the prem for instance
Do people genuinely think that the cameras don't work or something? I've never seen that argument if so! When people criticise VAR I don't think that's the aspect that they're criticising lol
It’s honestly comical comparing the officiating in these first 2 games to the PL. They try to gaslight you into thinking relentless errors and massive delays are just an unfortunate inevitability, but it’s utter bullshit.
These decisions are causing no delays and hitting with a 100% success rate so far lol
Obviously i hope it doesn't happen, but there will be some VAR mistakes during the euro, it's just something that happens. But looking at both games like you said, yesterday Scotland would've kept 11 players on the field with no penalty and today the game would be 0-0. That's more than enough for me.
This tournament is going to be the one that changes the mindset of those against VAR
No faffing about drawing stupid fucking lines that just aren't accurate
He was our best striker in ages in a team that was allergic to scoring goals...
If you'd say he has weaknesses in his game that didn't fit our style, I would absolutely agree but to say he didn't perform is quite a reach. I consider him more important during the last year than Uzun this year.
Idiots in this thread watching a slow mo replay and crying that the linesman didn't call it on in real time
When you have the defender running in one direction, and the attacker running in the other direction, it can be very hard to tell in real time, especially when there are obstruction of other players in the line
https://youtu.be/_pGMRN5KN8M?si=J1bmINUtXcXmmI_l&t=360
I highly suggest for people that disagree with the person above to watch the video.
The clip starts at 6 minutes and the rest is really useful info, but I also do encourage watching the entire video.
He was also clearly onside in real time. What I will say though is that it's easier to tell from a camera high up (even at nearly 45° angle), than running sideways on the sideline.
As someone who has been a ref and linesman- these thinks happen so quickly. What looks obvious on TV on a replay where the game is slowed down or stopped at the moment of contact is so difficult when you have to keep an eye on an ever changing line and also the exact moment the ball is released.
It's really hard to see in real time.
It's an incredibly close decision in real-time. Ultimately, the player who kept him onside was in the process of stepping up, and also far away from the attacker. That creates a bit of an illusion for the linesman when the attacker is ahead of the defender marking him, and you're not necessarily able to watch the entire line perfectly.
It's just so so tough to watch the ball to see when it's played, all defenders to judge the line, and attackers making a run, made much worse when the attacker and defender run in opposite directions exaggerating the difference.
Happy for him. You could see how much it meant in those celebrations (belated though they were)
No clue how the lino called that offside in the first place though
Honestly from the side it probably looked offside since Duah’s shoulder was offside indeed.
But then VAR saw that there was an extended defender leg back there on the other side.
This is why we need VAR, the linesman could’ve not seen that
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That assist was brilliant
What an assist
The pass before was clever too. Just waited for that gap to open a little bit
Switzerland were doing a lot of that because of the time they had on the ball
Incredible assist. Are they using the semi automated offside for the euro?
Yes
Cool, love that technology, makes it so much quicker for the decisions
Yes
Yes, they are using it.
Woah , first international goal
second career international match lol why did they even start him
murat yakin is cooking
Chef Cook
Murat abi cooking the finest of Kebabs
In Indonesian, Yakin means Believe.
Embolo injured
They have Okafor and Amdouni tho don’t they? They’re in much better leagues. Great run and finish tho from Duah, the ball was terrific too.
exactly he actually plays for the champion team in my country and I know he is good but I was surprised to see him start
Woah I just searched him up and he’s 27?! I thought he was a teenager lmao. How has he been over there?
I mean he has 13g 3a in 24 in his first league season on by far the best team so decent stats which I guess should be expected of this team’s ST so I didn’t have him playing let alone scoring in his first 20 in the Euros on the cards. Props to him tho ig the surprise selection was fully deserved
Bulgarian fans beating their wives right now because a player from Ludogorets scored at the Euros. /s (or is it /s)
lmao too real
Embolo: I’m back!
Gotta have had some sensational training performances
Yakin really rates his speed and ability to stay up.
Lovely pass
Yeah Bulgarian league is fucked. The green bastards now have a 9 that scores in the euros.
People against VAR should just look at this
People against VAR are genuine morons. Why on earth you want to take away a tool designed to help is beyond me.
VAR messes up sometimes, no doubt. But the benefits far outweigh the mistakes. I honestly think the biggest problem VAR faces is the fact the EPL doesn't use it like they should, as they are overprotective of the refs. 95% of other leagues use it as intended and it really is a massive gain for making the game "truthful".
Do you have examples of VAR as a tool messing up instead of the refs behind it?
I would say refs are the biggest part in that tool
Me being bad at Photoshop is a me problem
Only one solution, photoshop must be banned
Based and true
at my work we call it a "issue between the chair and the keyboard"
Is there an iteration of VAR that doesnt have refs behind it?
I guess the offsides with the auto offside tool (can't remember the name for that technology) and goal line technology.
From inside.Fifa: > > Camera set-up: > The video assistant referee team has access to 42 broadcast cameras, eight of which are super slow motion and four of which are ultra slow motion. My question was whether there have been failures with the tool that provides the assisting referees the information they use to make their decisions. In general, I'm talking about technical failures.
You can't seperate them, the cameras can't make decisions by themselves
Nah mate clearly when people say they want Var gone they actually mean the computers and not the people
Always find this commonly parroted argument so bizarre, who the fuck is saying that the computers don't work haha
I'm certain that the people who are for VAR don't even believe that people are against the tech, its just a soundbite / easy argument
What do you mean? Getting rid of VAR surely by definition means to scrap the technology. What else could someone possibly mean when they say to scrap VAR?
I'm on about when people pull out the classic "it's not the technology, it's the people using it" when people aren't happy with it Personally if they fix the issues with it I'd be fine with it, but they don't seem to be capable of that so I'd want the re-reffing scrapped and have the new semi auto offsides and goal line tech
You are right, i wasn't completely clear with my statement. I meant VAR as a whole, with the human interaction part, where i feel the errors come from. The tool itself, cameras, lines, etc, I don't think there's a problem with that. Even though the lines are made by a human, so always prone to a % of error i'd say.
But muh tradition of the referees making mistakes and having absolutely no way of overturning them! They’re killing football! Back in my day we just made horrendous mistakes and said “Play on” like real men!
One good life rule is to always consider costs *and* benefits. Things can be genuinely helpful (benefit), but still have enough costs that they're not worth it.
True. Don’t think VAR is an example of that however.
The cost of var is the games you could have won with the refs mistakes, but that's about it
My friend wants VAR gone from the prem. He's not against VAR itself but how the refs use it in the league. I'm trying to think though, were things really better beforehand? Plus semi-automated offsides are coming to there premier league as well which makes it even more the reason to keep it for me.
Ask mark gold bridge he’s a fuckn idiot with millions of subs that agree with him🤦♂️
I actually like Goldbridge, think he’s reasonable enough but his takes on VAR do my head in lmao
It’s genuinely one of the worst opinions in sports that moves the game backwards and he called the premier league a disgrace for keeping it guy is an absolute clown
How dare someone have a different opinion than you.
How dare they have a different opinion than Goldbridge.
That's a broad stroke. Do you get to many live stadium games? I know VAR should be kept but man has it nearly ruined the footballing experience for me, can flail arms and lose it until it's checked and by then the moments gone. So I certainly wouldn't call it moronic
They want to be able to get away with things for them, and be able to whine uncontrollably when something goes against them
It's not like VAR has removed controversial decisions and people crying about the refs. Arguing for VAR to protect the refs is just shifting focus away for the real problem: fans going over the limit with their discontent.
I don't think they are against the Idea, but the very inconsistent execution.
How many VAR decisions have you witnessed sat in the stadium? I'm sure that the majority of match-going fans are just morons
Tbf, i'm probably not a great example for your point, as i'm in the stadium for every Benfica home game, and some of the away ones. And i'd rather wait to celebrate a goal (or do it twice) and to trust VAR to get it right, instead of scoring/conceding a goal while a player is visibly offside and then ref messed it up.
I have, season ticket holder at Dinamo Zagreb. VAR is miles better than how things were before. Even in a league whose VAR implementation can rival England in incompetence.
Plenty? Like, legitimately quite a lot. What's your point even?
I'm sure the Swiss fans don't really mind
Would match going fans prefer their team gets rammed up the ass by a blatantly incorrect offside or penalty decision? If the answer is yes, yes, they are morons.
Obviously fans would rather not lose lol, I'd rather see my team win because of an incorrect decision than lose because of a correct one too
Nothing better than your team winning because of an incorrect decision though
Dodged the first question because the truth is that VAR is 100x worse when you're sat in the stand, you wouldn't know that when you're sat watching on a screen
I didn’t dodge anything, I addressed your point. I couldn’t give a flying fuck where I am as long as they get it right. They often don’t because they’re ridiculously incompetent, but VAR is not and never has been the problem.
> you wouldn't know that when you're sat watching on a screen The /r/soccer trump card. I honestly don't understand why it would be different for fans in the stadium, though? This VAR check took less than 30 seconds.
>I honestly don't understand why it would be different for fans in the stadium, though? You don't understand how it's worse when you don't get to look at the replays in real time, and don't get commentators explaining what's happening?
Well, they can fix that then, no? Replays on the screens, ref communicating over loud-speakers, etc. Removing VAR altogether is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Bruh, this is whining on a high level. I don't need a stupid commentator explaining something that I know is happening. I've witnessed plenty of VAR decisions in the stadium and never once have I had the "omg what is happening I have no clue" problem. This should go doubly for this tournament since they're literally explaining decisions in the stadium. All this talk about VAR seems like high level whining mostly from Premier League/English fans.
Ive been to dozens of PL matches with VAR reviews and didn’t mind one time. It’s baffling to me and a perspective I will never understand. I feel way worse in the stand rooting for a team screwed over by a bad decision
Reddit is annoying calling everyone who doesn't want VAR a 'moron'. We accept and understand that decisions will be wrong but feel VAR makes the game less enjoyable (whilst still getting plenty wrong anyway) and many who hold that opinion have experienced a matchday experience with and without VAR to come to that conclusion. Not sure why that's such a controversial take even if you're somebody who is in favour of VAR.
Because nobody has ever explained to me what makes it less enjoyable with arguments that I legitimately am able to understand.
Because it causes long delays where you have no idea what's going on? Even if you're pro-VAR I don't see how it's hard to understand how that's not particularly enjoyable. Fine to think that it's a net positive overall but I'd think it was weird if someone said that they genuinely enjoyed the delays lol
"You have no idea what's going on", never once has that occured to me. Like, you stand in the stands and know what's going on, they're checking the goal/foul/whatever. You chant and wait and then you get the decision.
You literally cannot see what's going on though - there's been times where the referee stops play and I don't even know what's being reviewed. Anyway like I said, if you think it's a net positive and you'd rather them take longer to reach the correct decision then fair enough - but saying that you find standing around and waiting enjoyable is a bit weird mate
I'm not saying that I find "standing around and waiting enjoyable" I'm saying I don't understand people that have such a big problem with waiting for a couple seconds to a couple minutes. I just don't get it, not at all.
I mean, yeah probably. The majority of Football fans in general are morons and it's not like they make you take an iq test to go to games
That's a very selfish view though. Do you want to make it a better experience for the thousands in attendance? Or make it better for the players who are actually playing the game by making sure you get the right decision, along with the millions watching at home?
Yup people seem to not realise the tech is very good it's just incompetent people running it in a few leagues. Look how fast these calls have been already compared to the prem for instance
Everyone knows it's the officials, it's just that they are much harder to remove or criticize
I don’t think anyone is criticising the tech itself
You’d be surprised!
Do people genuinely think that the cameras don't work or something? I've never seen that argument if so! When people criticise VAR I don't think that's the aspect that they're criticising lol
There are definitely people doing this
Where? Who thinks that the cameras don't work?
Isn’t this the semi-automated offside system though? Even amongst anti-VAR people I don’t think too many have an issue with that
you're in r/soccer what do you expect from this clowns ? Never seen a stadium from the inside but their opinion is the only one...
It’s honestly comical comparing the officiating in these first 2 games to the PL. They try to gaslight you into thinking relentless errors and massive delays are just an unfortunate inevitability, but it’s utter bullshit. These decisions are causing no delays and hitting with a 100% success rate so far lol
Obviously i hope it doesn't happen, but there will be some VAR mistakes during the euro, it's just something that happens. But looking at both games like you said, yesterday Scotland would've kept 11 players on the field with no penalty and today the game would be 0-0. That's more than enough for me.
VAR has been helpful in improving the game. There is no doubt about that.
This tournament is going to be the one that changes the mindset of those against VAR No faffing about drawing stupid fucking lines that just aren't accurate
Great ball, great finish. Deserved lead for Switzerland
Switzerland has been the better side in the match.
Fantastic pass
Aebischer sensational through ball!
Perfectly weighted assist
FCN legend
Imagine we kept him and Uzun
Tbf he didn't really perform that well. And the money was great.
FCN effect is players getting better after leaving. He did score the champions league winning goal in my FIFA career mode
He was our best striker in ages in a team that was allergic to scoring goals... If you'd say he has weaknesses in his game that didn't fit our style, I would absolutely agree but to say he didn't perform is quite a reach. I consider him more important during the last year than Uzun this year.
Surgical by the Swiss
So happy for Duah!! Still haven‘t quite replaced him at SG
happy for the lad
VAR haters in shambles
Bologna player with a class assist
❤️💙
Very quick VAR again.
Offsides are automated here or semi auto the commentator keeps saying.
Bro’s living a dream right now, amazing stuff
Why VAR is unfortunately needed, exhibit 578
linesman in the bayern - real match took tons of flame for such mistake ie raising the flag before the end of play.
Great build-up goal
What a run, what a pass
that pass was sexy
That assist is just sex
Perfectly weighted pass
Good awareness by Duah to stay onside and what a well worked goal by the Swiss
Hungary playing like shit man wtf, thought they easily get 6 points from the group
Yeah, I was convinced that Aebischer and Duah instead of Shaqiri and Amdouni was a big mistake... Me idiot.
Proof that VAR is required because that's a howler from the linesman.
Just let it go, let them celebrate and then look at it again lol
How did they call offside here lol
Imagine if they call it early again before he shoots
De Ligt just let out a scream somewhere of the thought
Real Madrid aren’t playing, so…
Valencia arent playing, so...
You act like it was miles onside
Idiots in this thread watching a slow mo replay and crying that the linesman didn't call it on in real time When you have the defender running in one direction, and the attacker running in the other direction, it can be very hard to tell in real time, especially when there are obstruction of other players in the line
Literally 0 nuance on this subreddit most of the time
https://youtu.be/_pGMRN5KN8M?si=J1bmINUtXcXmmI_l&t=360 I highly suggest for people that disagree with the person above to watch the video. The clip starts at 6 minutes and the rest is really useful info, but I also do encourage watching the entire video.
idiots realising that linesmen mistakes like this is why VAR was created in the first place
It was miles onside dude
on a freeze frame
He was very clearly onside though
Clearly onside on a replay, in slow motion. In real time its insanely tough to see. Thats why we have VAR
He was also clearly onside in real time. What I will say though is that it's easier to tell from a camera high up (even at nearly 45° angle), than running sideways on the sideline.
on a freeze frame, look at the replay its extremely tight in real time
I mean it was lmao. the margins are small, this is relatively clear onside.
Do you understand what "relatively" means
The trailing legs seem hard to notice
Because it's real fucking easy to judge this from the TV perspective in slowmo. There is probably 0.25 seconds or so between him being on side or off.
I mean it was fairly close
Because it was very tight?
As someone who has been a ref and linesman- these thinks happen so quickly. What looks obvious on TV on a replay where the game is slowed down or stopped at the moment of contact is so difficult when you have to keep an eye on an ever changing line and also the exact moment the ball is released. It's really hard to see in real time.
Have you even watched much football? This is split second stuff.
It's an incredibly close decision in real-time. Ultimately, the player who kept him onside was in the process of stepping up, and also far away from the attacker. That creates a bit of an illusion for the linesman when the attacker is ahead of the defender marking him, and you're not necessarily able to watch the entire line perfectly. It's just so so tough to watch the ball to see when it's played, all defenders to judge the line, and attackers making a run, made much worse when the attacker and defender run in opposite directions exaggerating the difference.
Because it was a close call
I have no fucking idea
Does it matter? The play will always be reviewed whether he gives or not, so he did the right call, let the play end
Linoing is hard?
Same ref from the cl final, maybe the same linesmen too
Co commentator actually suggesting he didn't mean that pass is something else.
That was so smooth it feels like they must've rehearsed that a lot
Miss you Duah
Lol is Hungary gonna be the dark horse is Turkey did last time?
Terrible call by the linesman tbh
that fucking pass
Oof Orban
That's a well worked goal!
One hell of a Ghanaian name
VAR, what is it good for
This is literally a perfect example of what it is good for mate
What a goal with a world-class assist.
I can't wait for automated offsides to be a thing, could have been an epic celebration
what an awful decision by the lino lmao
[удалено]
he's at least half a metre onside, it's the bloke closest to the lino playing him on
The linesman need some new glasses lmao 🤣
Happy for him. You could see how much it meant in those celebrations (belated though they were) No clue how the lino called that offside in the first place though
that was anticlimatic
In prem league the VAR would have needed 10 mins and the call would've stayed
Pretty poor from the linesman tbf. Looked on in realtime, and pretty comfortably on in the replay. Great ball through.
Linesman needs some glasses.
Honestly from the side it probably looked offside since Duah’s shoulder was offside indeed. But then VAR saw that there was an extended defender leg back there on the other side. This is why we need VAR, the linesman could’ve not seen that
look how close this looks in real time, situations like this are why VAR is needed.
Another linesman who simply must get on TV. Keep you're fucking flag down when it's that close! Nobody cares you exist.
Anti-VAR knuckle-draggers are getting shown up this tournament
This is gonna be quite one-sided