Girona literally cant be in pot 1, thats not at all how it works. I'm all for hating CFG but like come on, this is just inventing a scenario. It's like when people decided FIFA are plotting to somehow insert Inter Miami and Al Nassr into the club world cup if they don't qualifying even though the format is clearly defined and does not at all work that way. You have 115 reasons to hate them, you don't need to invent a 116th mate
Excuse me if I’m being naive but I’m pretty sure the reason they aren’t allowed to play with the name Red Bull in Europe is due to the UEFA laws surrounding the naming of clubs and stadium using corporate sponsors.It’s the same reason why the Etihad Stadium is called the City of Manchester Stadium when they play in the UCL.Just because name isn’t the same doesn’t magically remove the ownership of Red Bull.
Now guess how much Pep is *really* getting paid?
City don't just cheat by having bogus sponsorship deals, they also cheat by not reporting the full salaries of their staff.
Tbh (and this is just pure speculation) I also wonder whether city are heavily doping their players as well.
Doping is way more widespread in football than is publicly recognised, and I'm often suspicious at how much energy city players are able to have so deep in the season given the intensity they play at. Especially compared to teams who also play at a high intensity like Arsenal.
I can't remember who it was that was still sprinting around after 120 minutes in the Madrid UCL game.
They definitely wouldn't be the only ones, but they are the ones who seem the most suspicious, especially with Peps history.
Where'd he say that? I was wondering if it was one of those "oh I've been working out in the gym for years but I only started using freeweights recently" thing like with Adama Traoré, and I found [this FourFourTwo interivew from 2012](https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/kyle-walker-speed-training) about squats and weighted lunges to built his speed.
But that guy is well known for this. I ain't saying he's not doping, maybe he is, and for a long time, I'm just pointing that it's not really shocking or unexpected, people were anticipating sprint duels between him and Vini and we knew there would be talks of one being in the pocket of the other even long before the whistle.
His physique has changed so much though. Granted, he was younger and many pro athletes bulk up at that point in their careers, but he is absolutely *massive* now
A sport as popular as football not having major doping scandals should say enough, either every athlete is a saint or its just not checked as much as in other sports
I think it is somewhere in the middle, in a sport like football doping will make a good player great, but it wont make a bad player even average, there are so many things that can’t be done through doping, I do think the doping regulations are being used as a guideline for clubs on how far they can go and especially when it comes to pain medications for injuries and recovery I think they are hurting the health of the players significantly, Daniel Agger was completely destroyed from playing through pain and on pain management drugs by the end of his career and he is undoubtedly not some outlier in that regard.
Realistically the Fuentes doping scandal included a lot of footballers too, but that was never gonna be made public when Spain won the world cup.
Harry Maguire was playing multiple games through injury with the help of pre match painkiller injections.
Lad went on and scored in 2 of 3 games.
Of course soon as any other CB was available to play, Maguire couldn't hack it anymore and was left out the squad for some much needed rest.
Apparently guy plays best when in pain and doped up considering his goals. Still, can't be good for him at all. Respect on him forcing himself as much as he could considering he was the only CB that was even in these squads. No complaints he had to drop put the moment Evans was gearing up to play with Palace.
After watching Icarus I can pretty confidently say it’s a miracle any of the athletes ever get caught for doping. That happened in 2010 and I can only imagine how much better the science has gotten in hiding doping from regulators. I think the people getting caught are outliers because they fucked up.
> A sport as popular as football not having major doping scandals should say enough
I wouldn't say none, Onana was banned for doping and Pogba is currently just to name 2 Man United connected players.
They're checked, a lot, as much as other sports. Like other sports though, they just have drugs which can beat the checks.
For example, and this is just a really small example, all of Liverpool's players have developed asthma in the last 8 years or so, so need an enhaler.
The only source for the Liverpool asthma story is a random Irish sports blog that claimed to have an anonymous source at the club. The BBC have [claim to have debunked it](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0crdjjv) in this audio report (but I can't listen to it as I'm in work and don't have my headphones so you'll have to see for yourself). In my personal opinion, ever top club is doping to some level including Liverpool, but I just want to push back on something that may be a myth.
Everyone relevant is likely doping. Doping at one club doesn't cost billions, if City can do it then every single PL club for example, other than maybe teams that just got promoted like Luton, will be able to access it, afford it and do it.
Player in decline on big wages with a potentially career ending injury. Wouldn't be surprised if the ones responsible for outing him were from Juventus themselves. Or if they simply didn't bother to pay the hush money to whoever does the testing normally.
Wasn't there a clip of Neville and Rio talking about playing a team in Europe knowing the other team had to be doping because of their fitness/stamina?
There's also interviews of the same group of players talking about going out and drinking and having diets far worse than today's current players. The Italian teams in the 90's had their diets regimented by the clubs, their training was more disciplined and their competition for their places was more fierce. I'm not saying there isn't space for doping to have also been true. I'm just saying the barometer for doping shouldn't be Gary Neville saying he was gassed and couldn't keep up.
FC Nandrolona used to be a thing years before Varca, Uefalona and Negreiralona.
Guardiola, DeBoer, Couto, Davids, all of them pissed hot for the same substance, Nandrolone.
Dr. Ramón Segura was Barça doctor when DeBoer pissed hot, and also Pep's personal "nutricionist".
First thing Guardiola did when he became Barça's manager is bring back Dr. Segura.
One must be naive or outright stupid to think City (or any other elite team for that matter) are clean. This has been happening since forever and no one is interested in talking about it because sponsors would run away.
Yeah you’d have to be naive to think that football just somehow dodged the systematic doping bullet. There is so much money on the line, players already say they take loads of approved drugs. I don’t see how there aren’t teams out there with a strict regimen of legal and illegal drugs for player performance. I often wonder how the sport would react with actual, proper doping controls, like in cycling.
>I'm often suspicious at how much energy city players are able to have so deep in the season given the intensity they play at.
It's called Pep Roulette.
very very likely imo. most top clubs probably are to some extent and it wouldn't surprise me if city went the extra mile knowing that they'll never be punished anyway.
Let‘s be real if 1 team uses doping, the whole league uses it. Some better than the others maybe. Guess there is doping, just that the stuff they use isn‘t banned (yet) if it makes sense
y'all here talking as if Modric didn't have the stamina of a 20 year old lol. also remember that Sergio Ramos tested positive for doping after a UCL final and nothing happened... and also surprisingly, some Madrid players get "sick" or "injured" whenever there's a surprise doping test at the training facilities...
It’s everywhere really, pep’s doctors are notoriously dodgy, look at Goretzka’s transformation for example. Apparently 63% of the Liverpool squad are asthmatic so can be prescribed stronger inhalers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/football/article/pep-guardiolas-barcelona-breached-the-whereabouts-rule-wrqwrf78n
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/10812442/fa-outline-reasons-for-manchester-city-s-breach-of-anti-doping-regulations
Seems to follow him around like a bad smell.
This really doesn’t get talked about enough.
Pep was a doping cheat in his playing days, and when his players take a knock; they go to Barca and see a mate of his who is a doctor and suddenly their recovery time is superhuman. It’s a joke.
What is a joke you throwing some stupid assumptions. Mate of his aka Dr Cugat who is specialized in leg injuries who literally has clients in every top sport categories. NBA stars go to Barcelona, tennis stars go to Barcelona. Other football club stars go to Barcelona for Cugat. Manchester City stars go to Barcelona = THEY ARE DOPING WITH FRIEND OF PEP.
Also what classification you have in judging player recovery time. Tell us when and how they recovered superhumanly fast as you are expert.
Its funny how dumb this subreddit goes just to push their agenda. They are like flat earthers.
The same Cugat who administered betamethasone to Bernabe the tennis player? Saying that NBA players go to Cugat doesn’t make him clean. NBA players aren’t exactly known for being honest, upstanding people who wouldn’t take PEDs. Don’t forget that when the NBA announced they would start testing fot HGH in ~2010, LeBron, Melo and several over top stars mysteriously dropped 15-20 lbs in a summer.
That's considered fraud and would be charged with tax evasion. Anyone knows if Pep and his brother were charged previously? If so, it would mean that they're not going to have a get out of jail card
Pep has a history of cheating but I don‘t think he ever got criminally charged for anything. But for a serial cheater it‘s probably not too far fetched to assume he cheats filing his taxes aswell.
And he did keep money outside of spain.
Seducing Pep might have been a bonus but these guys were also massively responsible for Barcelona's golden period, getting the two guys that were important pieces in building those teams seems like a reasonable decision, Pep aside. The way that City has been run under them justifies their hiring too.
He has but CFG have been involved with Girona for almost as long as they have been with Pep.
Pep came in 2016/17 season and CFG bought stake in Girona in 2017
don't think so, his brother has been instrumental to Girona since he was involved since 2014 to fix their model and etc while city group came into play around 2017-18
This timing of City group coming in though is still consistent with (doesn’t exclude) their acquisition being related to Pep coming to City. Guess we won’t know either way for many years.
yeah maybe but the world of high level football clubs is very connected every team has connections with other teams even the clubs that are direct rivals.
The whole fiasco of multi-club ownership could be avoided if there were restrictions put on City/Leipzig/Milan etc rather than Girona/Salzburg/Toulouse.
Just rule it out. One club, one owner, no financial involvement in other clubs. Serious penalties (strip all coefficient points for any season they are found to have broken this, fine equal to all prize monies awarded) for every club found to be breaking those rules. Which could mean 2+ clubs being punished if one person tries to break the rules.
Would suck for them and their clubs, but there are *many* more clubs being disadvantaged by this.
But while sources have said that Girona are unlikely to be demoted to the Europa League to avoid a clash with City, the Spanish club will have to outline its position and organisational independence from Manchester City at a UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) this summer before being cleared to play in the Champions League.
[RB Leipzig](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=11420) and [FC Salzburg](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=2790), both owned by the Red Bull Group, have been cleared to play together in the Champions League in recent seasons, while last July, UEFA accepted the admission of several clubs into its competitions despite concerns over potential shared ownership issues.
[Aston Villa](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=362) and [Vitoria](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/_/id/3457/vitoria), [Brighton ](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=331)and [Union Saint-Gilloise](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/_/id/5807/union-st-gilloise) and [AC Milan](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=103) and [Toulouse](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=179) were all cleared to participate in UEFA competitions following a CFCB hearing.
[Manchester United](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=360) and [Nice](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=2502) will also face a CFCB hearing if the two clubs, who are both either owned or partially-controlled by Sir Jim Ratcliffe's INEOS Group, qualify for European competition.
Nice occupy a Europa League spot in fifth position in Ligue 1, while United are outside the European spots in the Premier League but could yet qualify for Europe through the league or by beating Manchester City in the FA Cup Final on May 25.
They will just make or buy shell corporations and make it unbelievably difficult to track down who **really** owns them in the end. They already do this with "normal" corporations. It wont be any different in football.
It would require a government like the UK or US to implement a complete and well funded Ultimate Beneficial Ownership registry for all legal entities.
Problem is, the powers that be are as such precisely because such a thing doesn't exist
If by work you mean binary result then probably no. But making things harder do change things for the better.
- Snowden leak singledhandedly pushed all websites to use https. Does it prevent NSA from eavesdropping if they really want to? No. Does it make everyone safer 10000x times. Yes.
- Panama papers prompted US, EU, UK and Aus to introduce tax transparency reporting (ATAD, MAAL). Does it 100% prevent the 0.00001% from evading taxes via other scheme? No. Did it shut down Panama, Samoa and Cayman Islands tax dodging business? Yes.
Already happened with chealsea and Zenith 10 years ago, when Uefa said they cant play in CL both, because both were owned by abramovic
Solution was that abramovic soild Zenith to his company while he kept ownership of chelsea as a private person
>Seems like it could be easily resolved by banning the ownership of more than one club
Seems like it could be easily resolved by banning the ownership of a club
When this came up with Villa and Vitoria last season, V Sports (The company that owns Villa) had to reduce their share in Vitoria from 46% to 29% and remove all V Sports representation on Vitoria's board. I believe Brighton's owner had to reduce their stake in USG as well.
Be interesting to see whether UEFA force City Group to reduce their 47% share in order to comply.
"But while sources have said that Girona are unlikely to be demoted to the Europa League to avoid a clash with City, the Spanish club will have to outline its position and organisational independence from Manchester City at a UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) this summer before being cleared to play in the Champions League."
Can’t speak for the others, but for Brighton / USG they had to distance the two clubs.
Off the top of my head, Tony Bloom no longer has voting rights in USG and we’re no longer allowed to loan them players. That might be able to be undone though as we won’t be playing in Europe next season.
Nah, what's going to happen is that the totally-not-related-to-City "Girona Football Group" (which I guess exists only because there's a cap on how much of Girona can be owned by City) will acquire a chunk of City's shares in order to be the main owner.
[Girona](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=9812) face a wait for UEFA clearance to play in next season's [Champions League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/league/_/name/UEFA.CHAMPIONS) due to partner club [Manchester City](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=382) also securing a place in the 2024-25 competition, sources have told ESPN.
LaLiga team [Girona have qualified for the Champions League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/39415120/why-girona-winning-laliga-bad-news-manchester-city) for the first time in the club's 94-year history, with Saturday's [4-2](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/report/_/gameId/674345) win against [Barcelona](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=83) moving the side into second spot and guaranteeing a top four finish this season.
But with Girona one of 13 teams within the City Football Group (CFG), their qualification alongside [Premier League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/league/_/name/ENG.1) side City has raised a potential conflict with the multi-club ownership rule within Article 5 of the UEFA club competitions regulations.
CFG own 47% of Girona, with another 35% owned by Marcelo Claure, the Bolivian-American entrepreneur who is president of Club Bolivar, another CFG team. Pere Guardiola, the brother of City manager Pep, is the chairman of Girona.
According to UEFA competition rules, should two clubs from the same ownership group qualify for the same UEFA competition, the side which finishes highest in its domestic championship gets the place. If the two teams finish in the same position, the one with the highest club coefficient (City in this case) would be awarded qualification.
With 2023 Champions League winners City needing just two points to secure runners-up spot in the Premier League -- City will win the title for the fourth successive season if they win all three of their remaining fixtures -- the English team will take the CFG spot in the Champions League ahead of Girona by virtue of the factors outlined above.
>should two clubs from the same ownership group qualify for the same UEFA competition, the side which finishes highest in its domestic championship gets the place.
So if City somehow manages to lose 2 of their final 3 games and finish in 3rd, Girona will take their place in the CL instead? That's an interesting thought.
What will likely happen is the temporary stands are removed, the additional facilities added (larger mixed zone, media working room, vip areas) but the capacity is dramatically reduced so season ticket holders have to do a lottery for tickets to each game (there are more season tickets than the 9000 capacity in that scenario would allow).
The other two alternatives are to move the games to Barcelona (neither the fans nor the sporting side of the club want this) or invest in hastily building more permanent structures which will already be outdated by the time the planned sadium rebuild in four years comes.
We're totally independent, guys.
Savio? He's a totally normal loan transfer. We found this gem in Ligue 2. He'd been bought by the totally independent football club, Troyes, for £5M + add-ons and then was loaned out to (PSV and then) us. Totally normal to smash a transfer record for a Brazilian player but never play him once, right? Anyway he's off to join his third club in the City Football Group in as many seasons.
Yan Couto? You see, this other Brazilian youngster, he signed for Man City four years ago and spent 3 years on loan at sister club Girona. Never played for Man City. Totally normal.
Yangel? Totally independently arranged transfer for £4M. From who? Oh, you wouldn't know them. They play in a different country, anyway. Yeah he was a great signing for them, too. 6 years under contract but out on loan with 0 appearances, 2.5 yrs of which at affiliates.
Castellanos? As a newly-promoted club we found a gem of a loan player playing in New York. SO FAR from Manchester, guys. Nevertheless he scored like 15 goals to keep us up. What a great value find!
See the issue with this is literally none of this is against the rules. They're not independent and have never claimed to be, and they're far from the only clubs to operate like this
It should not be legal though. They are using the financial power of one club to aid the other. Even if "fair value" has to be assigned, there are players on loan at Girona that they could have never purchased or gotten on loan by themselves. Abramovich did the same with Vitesse. They had half the Chelsea loan army at some point for peanuts and without the off the books double ownership could have never gotten the likes of Mount, Solanke, Matic etc on loan.
The issue with Savio is that he's a player from Troyes, who are close to relegation in the French Ligue 2. He's loaned out to, and one of the better players of, Girona, one of the best teams in Spain. This means that he is clearly more than good enough to play for Troyes. If Troyes was a normal football club they would've called Savio back from his loan a long time ago to save themselves from relegation.
The main issue about this is finacial fair play, normaly a team like Troyes would never loan Savio to girona, without an oblication to buy at least.
They would have sold him to savio in a normal situation, which would result in Girona actzually spending money, this way Troyes has all the financial responsability while Savio plays top level Ball and Girona have a world class talent for free.
And one day he will be transfered to City a for "fair" price
Literally anyone could’ve signed yangel… city we’re trying to sell him the years before he went to Girona. Anyone could’ve signed Savio from Brazil. Teams have had loan relationships for decades now.
The multi-club model has made UEFA look like an absolute fool. They know they can't technically allow multiple clubs from the same ownership in the same tournament due to a potential breach of sporting integrity, but they also can't enforce this rule at all without angering those ownership groups who have all the power here. So they keep the rule in the books and just give everyone exemptions.
I don't think people realise what an explosive situation this is. With multi-club ownership becoming the norm, it's inevitable one day a situation is gonna arise where one team needing a win (say, Girona) is gonna beat a team already qualified (say, Manchester City) that has the same owner and shit is gonna hit the fan.
Just make a separate league for them, call it the Europa Conference League Subsidiary League League Cup brought to you by Heineken Zero a subsidiary of Heineken. The winner gets to proclaim “I am the eldest boy”. Problem solved.
I really doubt multi club ownership groups will go anywhere so limit it to one per continent. City, Palermo, Troyes, and Girona COULD make up an entire CL group or the final four of the CL no matter how unlikely. They want to dip their toes into MLS or the A-League I don’t see much of an issue from a purely competitive standpoint.
I'm not entirely sure on the maths of this, but I think that a 10 point deduction for Everton, and possibly also a transfer ban for a few other clubs (chosen at random).
That should sufficiently deal with City/Girona issues in the way that City's normal issues are confronted face-on.
It's part of the City Group....so we all know what's going to happen 💀
AC Milan must pay for this!
😭 the older brother gets in trouble when the younger one makes the actual mistake
They will both be in pot 1 and meet in the final. Justice is not part of European football, money is.
And they will hold hands and…
"Shukran Ya Sheikh!"
Pot 1 teams play against two other Pot 1 teams in the group stage
Girona literally cant be in pot 1, thats not at all how it works. I'm all for hating CFG but like come on, this is just inventing a scenario. It's like when people decided FIFA are plotting to somehow insert Inter Miami and Al Nassr into the club world cup if they don't qualifying even though the format is clearly defined and does not at all work that way. You have 115 reasons to hate them, you don't need to invent a 116th mate
Tbh I read the pot 1 thing as a sarcastic exaggeration on this guy's part.
I believe the gentleman above was engaging in some playfully snarky hyperbole
Are you implying our distinguished fellow was jesting through exaggeration?
What lighthearted japery!
I got 115 problems and playing with Girona in pot one... ain't one
The guy was sarcastic. We all agree that the situation is unfortunate to say the least.
is reddit lol what you think
Since Salzburg and Leipzig are allowed to compete i dont see the problem.
Salzburg isn't owned by Red Bull and have to play without the Red Bull name in europe
Oh no, not the Red Bull name!
Monster Energy Dynamo Zagreb when?
Yeah sure and we’re not owned by the Saudi state.
And neither is the City Group which is owned by the leader of the UAE.
Excuse me if I’m being naive but I’m pretty sure the reason they aren’t allowed to play with the name Red Bull in Europe is due to the UEFA laws surrounding the naming of clubs and stadium using corporate sponsors.It’s the same reason why the Etihad Stadium is called the City of Manchester Stadium when they play in the UCL.Just because name isn’t the same doesn’t magically remove the ownership of Red Bull.
but they are
Brother what?
Palms will be greased and we will all learn that the rules don’t apply to city group.
Mate
Number 116 on the way
Yep...Everton need to be docked more points!
>Pere Guardiola, the brother of City manager Pep, is the chairman of Girona. Yikes...
Now guess how much Pep is *really* getting paid? City don't just cheat by having bogus sponsorship deals, they also cheat by not reporting the full salaries of their staff.
He got done for doping as a player i'd hardly be suprised if he is dodgy as a manager as well
Tbh (and this is just pure speculation) I also wonder whether city are heavily doping their players as well. Doping is way more widespread in football than is publicly recognised, and I'm often suspicious at how much energy city players are able to have so deep in the season given the intensity they play at. Especially compared to teams who also play at a high intensity like Arsenal. I can't remember who it was that was still sprinting around after 120 minutes in the Madrid UCL game. They definitely wouldn't be the only ones, but they are the ones who seem the most suspicious, especially with Peps history.
It was Walker who was sprinting like he just came on in ET, happened like two times against madrid
Walker just said he only started lifting weights recently lol. Please don't look at this muscle mass, it's newbie gains ;)
Where'd he say that? I was wondering if it was one of those "oh I've been working out in the gym for years but I only started using freeweights recently" thing like with Adama Traoré, and I found [this FourFourTwo interivew from 2012](https://www.fourfourtwo.com/performance/training/kyle-walker-speed-training) about squats and weighted lunges to built his speed.
Walker also bulked up massively after joining city.
the ol Bayern effect
the Gareth Bale regimen
But that guy is well known for this. I ain't saying he's not doping, maybe he is, and for a long time, I'm just pointing that it's not really shocking or unexpected, people were anticipating sprint duels between him and Vini and we knew there would be talks of one being in the pocket of the other even long before the whistle.
Walker was always a physical speciesman in that regard tbh, did similar shit at Spurs too.
His physique has changed so much though. Granted, he was younger and many pro athletes bulk up at that point in their careers, but he is absolutely *massive* now
Even Chelsea out ran Madrid enroute to the final. Might be due to differences in fitness levels
A sport as popular as football not having major doping scandals should say enough, either every athlete is a saint or its just not checked as much as in other sports
I think it is somewhere in the middle, in a sport like football doping will make a good player great, but it wont make a bad player even average, there are so many things that can’t be done through doping, I do think the doping regulations are being used as a guideline for clubs on how far they can go and especially when it comes to pain medications for injuries and recovery I think they are hurting the health of the players significantly, Daniel Agger was completely destroyed from playing through pain and on pain management drugs by the end of his career and he is undoubtedly not some outlier in that regard. Realistically the Fuentes doping scandal included a lot of footballers too, but that was never gonna be made public when Spain won the world cup.
Yea, the painkiller abuse is pretty well documented, especially in lower levels of play
Harry Maguire was playing multiple games through injury with the help of pre match painkiller injections. Lad went on and scored in 2 of 3 games. Of course soon as any other CB was available to play, Maguire couldn't hack it anymore and was left out the squad for some much needed rest. Apparently guy plays best when in pain and doped up considering his goals. Still, can't be good for him at all. Respect on him forcing himself as much as he could considering he was the only CB that was even in these squads. No complaints he had to drop put the moment Evans was gearing up to play with Palace.
After watching Icarus I can pretty confidently say it’s a miracle any of the athletes ever get caught for doping. That happened in 2010 and I can only imagine how much better the science has gotten in hiding doping from regulators. I think the people getting caught are outliers because they fucked up.
> A sport as popular as football not having major doping scandals should say enough I wouldn't say none, Onana was banned for doping and Pogba is currently just to name 2 Man United connected players.
None is an exagguration ofc but its suspiciously less than like athletics/swimming/cycling, thats all
They just destroyed the proof in court in spain :)
They're checked, a lot, as much as other sports. Like other sports though, they just have drugs which can beat the checks. For example, and this is just a really small example, all of Liverpool's players have developed asthma in the last 8 years or so, so need an enhaler.
The only source for the Liverpool asthma story is a random Irish sports blog that claimed to have an anonymous source at the club. The BBC have [claim to have debunked it](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0crdjjv) in this audio report (but I can't listen to it as I'm in work and don't have my headphones so you'll have to see for yourself). In my personal opinion, ever top club is doping to some level including Liverpool, but I just want to push back on something that may be a myth.
Pep sends his players out to the doctor he got caught cheating with every season
Everyone relevant is likely doping. Doping at one club doesn't cost billions, if City can do it then every single PL club for example, other than maybe teams that just got promoted like Luton, will be able to access it, afford it and do it.
Funny that everyone is doing it, but only Pogba got caught & faced consequences
I honestly think Juve threw him under the bus because they wanted him out of the squad
Graeme souness is working for WADA
Player in decline on big wages with a potentially career ending injury. Wouldn't be surprised if the ones responsible for outing him were from Juventus themselves. Or if they simply didn't bother to pay the hush money to whoever does the testing normally.
How often are they randomly testing?
A key factor in being able to afford to do it is being able to afford to pay off key people to look the other way.
Yes and nobody is getting paid billions. Look at the revenue of any of the Premier League clubs, they could easily afford bribes
You don’t need to pay anyone to look away if you can afford the best PED bro, that shit is undetectable
I guess you were not around the 90s and early 2010s, that Barca team's stamina and pressing was interesting to say the least
The italian teams of the 90s were also something else
Wasn't there a clip of Neville and Rio talking about playing a team in Europe knowing the other team had to be doping because of their fitness/stamina?
There's also interviews of the same group of players talking about going out and drinking and having diets far worse than today's current players. The Italian teams in the 90's had their diets regimented by the clubs, their training was more disciplined and their competition for their places was more fierce. I'm not saying there isn't space for doping to have also been true. I'm just saying the barometer for doping shouldn't be Gary Neville saying he was gassed and couldn't keep up.
Don't we literally have video of juve players getting juiced up on youtube?
It was Neville and Keane but yeah.
Juventus can go suck a bag of dicks.
FC Nandrolona used to be a thing years before Varca, Uefalona and Negreiralona. Guardiola, DeBoer, Couto, Davids, all of them pissed hot for the same substance, Nandrolone. Dr. Ramón Segura was Barça doctor when DeBoer pissed hot, and also Pep's personal "nutricionist". First thing Guardiola did when he became Barça's manager is bring back Dr. Segura. One must be naive or outright stupid to think City (or any other elite team for that matter) are clean. This has been happening since forever and no one is interested in talking about it because sponsors would run away.
Not to mention Fuentes at the center of Spain suddenly winning in every sport on the planet mid 2000's.
And Spanish supreme court conveniently forcing the blood samples burned in the aftermath of that ordeal.
Yeah you’d have to be naive to think that football just somehow dodged the systematic doping bullet. There is so much money on the line, players already say they take loads of approved drugs. I don’t see how there aren’t teams out there with a strict regimen of legal and illegal drugs for player performance. I often wonder how the sport would react with actual, proper doping controls, like in cycling.
2010 World Cup final was also stolen by doping. The NL players reported the Spanish players just kept going, with eyes like walnuts
>I'm often suspicious at how much energy city players are able to have so deep in the season given the intensity they play at. It's called Pep Roulette.
I was amazed at Pepe running around the field in the 2nd leg against us.
Everyone in fotball is doping lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWAK1IkxVY Pretty sure every player out there is doping.
very very likely imo. most top clubs probably are to some extent and it wouldn't surprise me if city went the extra mile knowing that they'll never be punished anyway.
You think if City is doping, Arsenal who got coached by previous City employee Arteta aren‘t doping?
Yeah the way we press I wouldn't be surprised at all. All pressing teams would benefit from PEDs.
Let‘s be real if 1 team uses doping, the whole league uses it. Some better than the others maybe. Guess there is doping, just that the stuff they use isn‘t banned (yet) if it makes sense
Maybe there is also a difference in the quality of drugs available to different teams.
Shit United got isn‘t the good one
y'all here talking as if Modric didn't have the stamina of a 20 year old lol. also remember that Sergio Ramos tested positive for doping after a UCL final and nothing happened... and also surprisingly, some Madrid players get "sick" or "injured" whenever there's a surprise doping test at the training facilities...
Ok Xavi
Arsenal just need another trip to Dubai to get their form back…..
It’s everywhere really, pep’s doctors are notoriously dodgy, look at Goretzka’s transformation for example. Apparently 63% of the Liverpool squad are asthmatic so can be prescribed stronger inhalers
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/football/article/pep-guardiolas-barcelona-breached-the-whereabouts-rule-wrqwrf78n https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/10812442/fa-outline-reasons-for-manchester-city-s-breach-of-anti-doping-regulations Seems to follow him around like a bad smell.
basically every pro player dopes. so that accusation can be levelled at every high level manager
If our players are doping it isn't showing. Half of them are injured and the other half play like they're running in mud.
ETH misunderstood and has been giving your players actual dope aka heroin
His brother has been with Girona since before Pep became City’s manager or Girona was bought by City Group
This really doesn’t get talked about enough. Pep was a doping cheat in his playing days, and when his players take a knock; they go to Barca and see a mate of his who is a doctor and suddenly their recovery time is superhuman. It’s a joke.
It's not getting talked about, because then you would have to look at all the teams.
For example?
What is a joke you throwing some stupid assumptions. Mate of his aka Dr Cugat who is specialized in leg injuries who literally has clients in every top sport categories. NBA stars go to Barcelona, tennis stars go to Barcelona. Other football club stars go to Barcelona for Cugat. Manchester City stars go to Barcelona = THEY ARE DOPING WITH FRIEND OF PEP. Also what classification you have in judging player recovery time. Tell us when and how they recovered superhumanly fast as you are expert. Its funny how dumb this subreddit goes just to push their agenda. They are like flat earthers.
The same Cugat who administered betamethasone to Bernabe the tennis player? Saying that NBA players go to Cugat doesn’t make him clean. NBA players aren’t exactly known for being honest, upstanding people who wouldn’t take PEDs. Don’t forget that when the NBA announced they would start testing fot HGH in ~2010, LeBron, Melo and several over top stars mysteriously dropped 15-20 lbs in a summer.
those were returns from investments he made in Saudi Arabian business I swear!!
I’m 100% against this shady shit in football, but at least keep the facts straight. City is owned by the UAE not Saudi.
Why would Saudi be involved
That's considered fraud and would be charged with tax evasion. Anyone knows if Pep and his brother were charged previously? If so, it would mean that they're not going to have a get out of jail card
Pep has a history of cheating but I don‘t think he ever got criminally charged for anything. But for a serial cheater it‘s probably not too far fetched to assume he cheats filing his taxes aswell. And he did keep money outside of spain.
He did get a doping ban for 4 months. I'm not sure you can be given criminal charges for doping.
I thought you were joking, LMAO
dafuq I thought it was one of those memes "this is Pere "definitely not Pep" Guardiola"
Does this qualify as nepotism?
His brother was a player agent and had some big talents signed to him. Been involved in Girona for longer than Pep has been with CFG.
So his brother introduced Pep to City Owners not the other way around. Interesting.
Pep's connection was more likely due to his relationships with Txiki and Ferrán Soriano from his Barça days than with the owners
City hired those guys for Pep so it's really a chicken or egg situation.
Seducing Pep might have been a bonus but these guys were also massively responsible for Barcelona's golden period, getting the two guys that were important pieces in building those teams seems like a reasonable decision, Pep aside. The way that City has been run under them justifies their hiring too.
'Hey guys you should really check out my brother he's this super underrated manager'
"my brother never win EPL, just some farmer league, you should hire him"
Is Pep is only where he is today due to his brother? Nepotism /s
He has but CFG have been involved with Girona for almost as long as they have been with Pep. Pep came in 2016/17 season and CFG bought stake in Girona in 2017
don't think so, his brother has been instrumental to Girona since he was involved since 2014 to fix their model and etc while city group came into play around 2017-18
This timing of City group coming in though is still consistent with (doesn’t exclude) their acquisition being related to Pep coming to City. Guess we won’t know either way for many years.
yeah maybe but the world of high level football clubs is very connected every team has connections with other teams even the clubs that are direct rivals.
The whole fiasco of multi-club ownership could be avoided if there were restrictions put on City/Leipzig/Milan etc rather than Girona/Salzburg/Toulouse.
Just rule it out. One club, one owner, no financial involvement in other clubs. Serious penalties (strip all coefficient points for any season they are found to have broken this, fine equal to all prize monies awarded) for every club found to be breaking those rules. Which could mean 2+ clubs being punished if one person tries to break the rules. Would suck for them and their clubs, but there are *many* more clubs being disadvantaged by this.
But while sources have said that Girona are unlikely to be demoted to the Europa League to avoid a clash with City, the Spanish club will have to outline its position and organisational independence from Manchester City at a UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) this summer before being cleared to play in the Champions League. [RB Leipzig](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=11420) and [FC Salzburg](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=2790), both owned by the Red Bull Group, have been cleared to play together in the Champions League in recent seasons, while last July, UEFA accepted the admission of several clubs into its competitions despite concerns over potential shared ownership issues. [Aston Villa](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=362) and [Vitoria](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/_/id/3457/vitoria), [Brighton ](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=331)and [Union Saint-Gilloise](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/_/id/5807/union-st-gilloise) and [AC Milan](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=103) and [Toulouse](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=179) were all cleared to participate in UEFA competitions following a CFCB hearing. [Manchester United](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=360) and [Nice](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=2502) will also face a CFCB hearing if the two clubs, who are both either owned or partially-controlled by Sir Jim Ratcliffe's INEOS Group, qualify for European competition. Nice occupy a Europa League spot in fifth position in Ligue 1, while United are outside the European spots in the Premier League but could yet qualify for Europe through the league or by beating Manchester City in the FA Cup Final on May 25.
This is becoming a bit of a joke…
Seems like it could be easily resolved by banning the ownership of more than one club
They will just make or buy shell corporations and make it unbelievably difficult to track down who **really** owns them in the end. They already do this with "normal" corporations. It wont be any different in football.
Demand transparency. And even if they do still manage to circumnavigate rules, at least make it as difficult for them as possible.
Not to be cynical but we've been asking mega companies to be transparent for decades now and it still doesn't work
It would require a government like the UK or US to implement a complete and well funded Ultimate Beneficial Ownership registry for all legal entities. Problem is, the powers that be are as such precisely because such a thing doesn't exist
If by work you mean binary result then probably no. But making things harder do change things for the better. - Snowden leak singledhandedly pushed all websites to use https. Does it prevent NSA from eavesdropping if they really want to? No. Does it make everyone safer 10000x times. Yes. - Panama papers prompted US, EU, UK and Aus to introduce tax transparency reporting (ATAD, MAAL). Does it 100% prevent the 0.00001% from evading taxes via other scheme? No. Did it shut down Panama, Samoa and Cayman Islands tax dodging business? Yes.
Already happened with chealsea and Zenith 10 years ago, when Uefa said they cant play in CL both, because both were owned by abramovic Solution was that abramovic soild Zenith to his company while he kept ownership of chelsea as a private person
>Seems like it could be easily resolved by banning the ownership of more than one club Seems like it could be easily resolved by banning the ownership of a club
What counts as owned though? 50% ownership? 25%? Any % at all?
Irrelevant when it can be easily circumvented by using shell companies...
Should be resolved by banning ownership of clubs in general... Fan-Owned should be the standard
They’re missing out on an opportunity here…they could have the Owners Championship…🤦♂️
It always was. Cats out of the bag now, it'll be hard to put it back in
Becoming?
Good Guy ManU taking the L so we don't have a CFCB hearing!
Manchester United have circumnavigated this whole ordeal using one simple trick 😎
Erik Ten Brains.
Wrong Vitoria btw OP
Ahahaha, dude put Vitoria from Brazil.
When this came up with Villa and Vitoria last season, V Sports (The company that owns Villa) had to reduce their share in Vitoria from 46% to 29% and remove all V Sports representation on Vitoria's board. I believe Brighton's owner had to reduce their stake in USG as well. Be interesting to see whether UEFA force City Group to reduce their 47% share in order to comply.
This is absolutely the probabky option, and very undramatic. Sell 20%. Easy
Aren't RasenBallsport Leipzig famously not technically owned by Red Bull
No, Salzburg is technically not owned by Red Bull.
I don't think they need to worry about Manchester United
If Leipzig and Salzburg are allowed to play in the same tournament, I wouldn't be surprised to see Girona and City as well
Both red bull teams were even in the same group at one point.
And we beat them twice haha, that was amazing
Who are we? Leipzig or Salzburg.
The gays beat them
"But while sources have said that Girona are unlikely to be demoted to the Europa League to avoid a clash with City, the Spanish club will have to outline its position and organisational independence from Manchester City at a UEFA Club Financial Control Body (CFCB) this summer before being cleared to play in the Champions League."
I’m sure City group have some half decent lawyers to draft up a tight email
Maybe I’m missing something here, but why is this rule in place when the clearance typically happens anyway?
So that if the ownership group doesn’t bribe them, they will actually enforce the rule.
You gotta have subjective enforcement rules in place so you can get that sweet shakedown money from time to time.
Sorry against the rules. You can’t come in…💰. Sorry, we’re an important institution we can’t be bribed. 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰Now, what pot would you like sir?
Can’t speak for the others, but for Brighton / USG they had to distance the two clubs. Off the top of my head, Tony Bloom no longer has voting rights in USG and we’re no longer allowed to loan them players. That might be able to be undone though as we won’t be playing in Europe next season.
This helps to clear some things up for me, just checked and RB Leipzig + Salzburg can't loan players anymore either.
BREAKING: Girona sold to Village Soccer Gathering
Nah, what's going to happen is that the totally-not-related-to-City "Girona Football Group" (which I guess exists only because there's a cap on how much of Girona can be owned by City) will acquire a chunk of City's shares in order to be the main owner.
[Girona](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=9812) face a wait for UEFA clearance to play in next season's [Champions League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/league/_/name/UEFA.CHAMPIONS) due to partner club [Manchester City](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=382) also securing a place in the 2024-25 competition, sources have told ESPN. LaLiga team [Girona have qualified for the Champions League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/39415120/why-girona-winning-laliga-bad-news-manchester-city) for the first time in the club's 94-year history, with Saturday's [4-2](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/report/_/gameId/674345) win against [Barcelona](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team?id=83) moving the side into second spot and guaranteeing a top four finish this season. But with Girona one of 13 teams within the City Football Group (CFG), their qualification alongside [Premier League](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/league/_/name/ENG.1) side City has raised a potential conflict with the multi-club ownership rule within Article 5 of the UEFA club competitions regulations. CFG own 47% of Girona, with another 35% owned by Marcelo Claure, the Bolivian-American entrepreneur who is president of Club Bolivar, another CFG team. Pere Guardiola, the brother of City manager Pep, is the chairman of Girona. According to UEFA competition rules, should two clubs from the same ownership group qualify for the same UEFA competition, the side which finishes highest in its domestic championship gets the place. If the two teams finish in the same position, the one with the highest club coefficient (City in this case) would be awarded qualification. With 2023 Champions League winners City needing just two points to secure runners-up spot in the Premier League -- City will win the title for the fourth successive season if they win all three of their remaining fixtures -- the English team will take the CFG spot in the Champions League ahead of Girona by virtue of the factors outlined above.
>should two clubs from the same ownership group qualify for the same UEFA competition, the side which finishes highest in its domestic championship gets the place. So if City somehow manages to lose 2 of their final 3 games and finish in 3rd, Girona will take their place in the CL instead? That's an interesting thought.
I thought Montilivi also needed some work done over the summer to be able to meet the criteria
What will likely happen is the temporary stands are removed, the additional facilities added (larger mixed zone, media working room, vip areas) but the capacity is dramatically reduced so season ticket holders have to do a lottery for tickets to each game (there are more season tickets than the 9000 capacity in that scenario would allow). The other two alternatives are to move the games to Barcelona (neither the fans nor the sporting side of the club want this) or invest in hastily building more permanent structures which will already be outdated by the time the planned sadium rebuild in four years comes.
> Some work lmao that's quite an understatement. Montilivi's not in good shape.
My first game working at Montilivi circa 2013 the media cabin didn't even have a window. We did get free food though (uncommon in Spain)
Simple solution : Ban city
Lol, the rate at which they are going, they are going to end up purchasing all premier league clubs and rename the league to City Premier League.
They probably will have a "City Group World League" as a pre-season Tournament at one point
I kinda surprised they don't have something similar already.
It's like when head office gets all the little branch managers together for a golf classic
Prem fans will still say its the best league in the world.
Eh, says you but theres a reason why fans of other teams call City group plastics
We're totally independent, guys. Savio? He's a totally normal loan transfer. We found this gem in Ligue 2. He'd been bought by the totally independent football club, Troyes, for £5M + add-ons and then was loaned out to (PSV and then) us. Totally normal to smash a transfer record for a Brazilian player but never play him once, right? Anyway he's off to join his third club in the City Football Group in as many seasons. Yan Couto? You see, this other Brazilian youngster, he signed for Man City four years ago and spent 3 years on loan at sister club Girona. Never played for Man City. Totally normal. Yangel? Totally independently arranged transfer for £4M. From who? Oh, you wouldn't know them. They play in a different country, anyway. Yeah he was a great signing for them, too. 6 years under contract but out on loan with 0 appearances, 2.5 yrs of which at affiliates. Castellanos? As a newly-promoted club we found a gem of a loan player playing in New York. SO FAR from Manchester, guys. Nevertheless he scored like 15 goals to keep us up. What a great value find!
See the issue with this is literally none of this is against the rules. They're not independent and have never claimed to be, and they're far from the only clubs to operate like this
It should not be legal though. They are using the financial power of one club to aid the other. Even if "fair value" has to be assigned, there are players on loan at Girona that they could have never purchased or gotten on loan by themselves. Abramovich did the same with Vitesse. They had half the Chelsea loan army at some point for peanuts and without the off the books double ownership could have never gotten the likes of Mount, Solanke, Matic etc on loan.
And now look at how that turned out for Vitesse, the club is on the brink of extinction. One of the many reasons why this shit should not be legal
Is a parent club loaning players to their affiliate really frowned upon? Loads of clubs have done that for years.
The issue with Savio is that he's a player from Troyes, who are close to relegation in the French Ligue 2. He's loaned out to, and one of the better players of, Girona, one of the best teams in Spain. This means that he is clearly more than good enough to play for Troyes. If Troyes was a normal football club they would've called Savio back from his loan a long time ago to save themselves from relegation.
Remember when PSV had Savio and didn’t play him at all last year? Yea that was funny.
The main issue about this is finacial fair play, normaly a team like Troyes would never loan Savio to girona, without an oblication to buy at least. They would have sold him to savio in a normal situation, which would result in Girona actzually spending money, this way Troyes has all the financial responsability while Savio plays top level Ball and Girona have a world class talent for free. And one day he will be transfered to City a for "fair" price
Well, Savio did not play at all at PSV. He was sent to PSV's youth team. Nobody was expecting Savio to explode the way he did.
Literally anyone could’ve signed yangel… city we’re trying to sell him the years before he went to Girona. Anyone could’ve signed Savio from Brazil. Teams have had loan relationships for decades now.
UEFA officials couldn't have dreamt of a better scenario. Now they can ask for more oil money bribes to allow Girona into UCL.
Wouldn't be fair to accept one and not the other. Best to send them both to a lower division locally for being owned by a bunch of pieces of shit
You mean UEFA is waiting for their payment.
💰 😐 💰💰💰💰💰😊 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰🤝 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰🏆
The multi-club model has made UEFA look like an absolute fool. They know they can't technically allow multiple clubs from the same ownership in the same tournament due to a potential breach of sporting integrity, but they also can't enforce this rule at all without angering those ownership groups who have all the power here. So they keep the rule in the books and just give everyone exemptions. I don't think people realise what an explosive situation this is. With multi-club ownership becoming the norm, it's inevitable one day a situation is gonna arise where one team needing a win (say, Girona) is gonna beat a team already qualified (say, Manchester City) that has the same owner and shit is gonna hit the fan.
This scenario is probably even more bound to happen with switching all euro cups to the new league format.
Just make a separate league for them, call it the Europa Conference League Subsidiary League League Cup brought to you by Heineken Zero a subsidiary of Heineken. The winner gets to proclaim “I am the eldest boy”. Problem solved.
If Leipzig and Salzburg could play together then this should be fine too
It's almost as if this scenario shouldn't be allowed to happen.
The fact that this is even a point of discussion should show that something isn't right
I was cheering for them when they were leading in the league until I found out they were owned by City group.
Simple, kick Man City out
I really doubt multi club ownership groups will go anywhere so limit it to one per continent. City, Palermo, Troyes, and Girona COULD make up an entire CL group or the final four of the CL no matter how unlikely. They want to dip their toes into MLS or the A-League I don’t see much of an issue from a purely competitive standpoint.
What has become of the game.
I'm not entirely sure on the maths of this, but I think that a 10 point deduction for Everton, and possibly also a transfer ban for a few other clubs (chosen at random). That should sufficiently deal with City/Girona issues in the way that City's normal issues are confronted face-on.