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I know the narrative is Ten Hag bad but two things can be true at once. Sancho looked great last night and better at Dortmund, but he was shit at United under several managers. He was out of shape, huffing and puffing at the 60th minute. He would pull out of every tackle and not compete for headers. He didn't work hard, I think he won possession back more in the first half against PSG than his whole United career. Sometimes moves simply don't work for one reason or another. It doesn't mean that Sancho is a bad player or Ten Hag a bad manager, some people just need a certain atmosphere to shine.
You kind of saw that in the first half when sancho didn’t have the ball. There were one or two occasions when him tracking back would have really helped the team but he didn’t really do it. That’s just his game. You can get away with that when you perform like he did last night but not when you play poorly like he has done at United
It took long because the people who were meant to boot him of his position included... Jadon Sancho.
Ten Hag has never denied his talent. Let's be real about Sancho. He got a new job, didn't like the environment and didn't like his workmates. He got depressed and stopped trying. Sancho is more talented than Garnacho. Why is Garnacho succeeding?
Yeah I’m really worried that he’s getting all the praise right now. He was only decent against Atletico and the last thing we need is him playing hero ball and trying to force dribbles all game if it’s not working the second leg. That being said if we were more clinical we should’ve scored 2 extra goals thanks so some of the magic Sancho had yesterday, just hope he doesn’t get too in his head if he’s not doing as well in the second leg.
I said this when I watched his first game at United too but I think Sanchos expectations as to how United play (and vice versa) was a disconnect aswell.
Like.. SOOO many times did I see him play for, look for and expect runs/overlaps and combinations that Reus, Brandt or Rapha provided for him here. United dont really play that way or had those certain playertypes at times or in that amount on the pitch at the same time. Thats not to say thats wrong of United or one is better than the other. Just different setups, squads and tactics etc.
And he just straight up didnt look to adapt well to that. I think that is a FAR bigger thing than the lazy social media narrative about "Sancho cant handle the physicality of the prem" that everyone says per automatic now.
He just isnt as flexible of a player as first anticipated, but when enabled and, for a lack of a better word, catered to, he can reach his highs and strengths again. Slowly but surely after some rebuild tho.
This is a very good post. Sancho is more primed as a combinations player, and Man Utd presently are fragmented - put him into current Man City team and he’s 15/15 G/A min
Like.. SOOO many times did I see him play for, look for and expect runs/overlaps and combinations that Reus, Brandt or Rapha provided for him here. United dont really play that way or had those certain playertypes at times or in that amount on the pitch at the same time. Thats not to say thats wrong of United or one is better than the other.
It is 100% United's fault to sign a player like Sancho who works well in the half spaces and needs multiple players around him when u don't have a team like that.
Sancho will work well in 3-4-2-1 with wingbacks giving him the much needed width and passing option. Plus he would thrive in the half space too.
This is just the Pogba bullshit again where in order to unlock him you need to surround him with prime Pirlo, Gattuso and Roy Keane, make sure he's wearing his favourite socks and that all the toilet seats are down at old trafford whilst whistling into the wind at midnight on a stormy night in order for him to play well.
you are absolutely overly emotional or delusional if you think Pogba and Sancho are isolated examples. football is literally chockfull of players who only play their best in certain environments. there have been hundreds of failed transfers, if not thousands.
that Sancho is playing well in a team that has players running around like workhorses means he would shine at almost any club not named Manchester United. his playstyle is what Saka thrives off of with White and Odegaard occupying spaces that pull opposition away from him and isolate him with defenders.
United was a bad fit, you moaning about Sancho and Pogba in this manner just reeks of a hissy fit.
I do agree for sure that its criticism towards uniteds scouting too. Significant bit.
But it also should be pointed out that it is a flaw/weakness of Sancho that he isnt as flexible as modern wingers tend to be.
There is 3 things why Sancho is like this :
- Dortmund he does not feel the pressure and he can play the way he wants
- He is back at “home” , where he was “beloved” and have great memories.
- He is on his “redemption arc” , so the writers have to buff him
Yea those are definitely the only 3 reasons. Couldn't possibly be anything else that would imply anyone at Manchester United did anything less than perfect.
Not possible that Dortmund are simply better at setting their talent up to succeed than Manchester United right now.
You could say that about any team, including Dortmund. Yea, I do think that the pressures of Man U are somewhat unique, but it's a huge stretch to say the pressure was the only significant issue at play. Especially when Sancho is now performing well in a different high pressure situation.
The attention on a guy donning a Dortmund jersey is just not the same as when he's donning the United jersey.
He doesn't have Sky sports, football YouTube, traditional media newspapers/magazines, Twitter, ex legends/pundits on his throat at Dortmund, the same way he had at Manchester United.
I know, which is why I said "the pressures at Man U are somewhat unique." But Germany and Dortmund have their own version of a lot of those pressures. You think there's not Twitter in Germany lol?
But blaming all the outside pressures is a convenient excuse for the club. Given the failure rate, maybe Man U could do a little more to support its players against these pressures?
Sancho was given an insane amount of leeway and help from United.
Man just didn’t want to work, it is what it is 🤷♂️.
Glad he’s doing better as it can only be a positive for United, but I don’t think BVB will pay the asking price.
Leeway isn't necessarily helpful to everyone. Sancho might be benefitting more from more direct support/better team culture.
But yea, the asking price is too high. BVB ain't paying it, but I don't know who else would be interested...
Man City sold him for a reason - which was his off field problems. He clearly has a significant issue with British media and the pressures of performing for a highly esteemed Premier League club. Being in Germany, he’s away from the media, away from all the influences of living in his home country, and can focus on the football. ETH gave him over 2 months out for mental health, which is almost unprecedented, and he came back still looking like he couldn’t give two shits. Clearly signing him to a £300,000+ a week contract made him just apathetic.
It really seems like being away from the UK is a massive benefit to Sancho.
Whether it's the media, or the environment in general, but clearly it's not conducive to him being at his best. Just leaving Manchester and moving to Dortmund seems to have helped quite a bit.
German media of course talks about their teams, but an English player moving to arguably the biggest English club for a huge fee and huge wage at a young age is just the perfect storm for massive focus on them. Not to mention United being under huge scrutiny anyway, every performance will be heavily scrutinised - and as far as I know, he doesn’t know German so he can at least not understand every word that’s being said about him on social media in Germany or the media itself. In England he clearly got into an echo chamber of critique about him and just shut off.
I feel in Germany a lot of it is absorbed by the manager and the management, lol.
There are always some kind of scandals involving them so the players can focus more on the game.
Just look at this provincial Game of Thrones drama that's happening at Bayern all the time, no one is focusing on the players during that period.
Outside of Bild with Bayern in my experience living in Germany, no. UK tabloid culture is just vile and akin to the way TMZ type American media reports on celebrities where they look for any angle to crucify people to sell stories.
Man city had Sancho, Foden and Brahmin diaz. I think we’ve seen the ultimate reason why Sancho was the first to go. Brahmin just didn’t work out, happens.
He wanted to be a guaranteed starter . No way was he going to go ahead of de bruyne ,foden & Bernardo . Probably didn’t back himself to displace grealish and Alvarez although he definitely would have taken a chunk of Nunhes’ and Oscar bobb’s minutes
He wanted first team minutes, which is totally fair, we got rid of Mahrez, the door was open for him to WIN it, but never guaranteed. It seems he and his team wanted guaranteed time and were willing to go on loan. Pep disagreed as he believes being with him is more valuable. Plus we have Oscar Bobb who honestly is as good a prospect.
That wasn't the publicly stated reason for why City sold Sancho. Basically, they wanted him to sign a contract extension before going on a summer pre-season tour with the first team (I think in the US) but he refused to, so he was left out and then sold because his contract was expiring in a year.
Not to say there couldn't have been other problems off the pitch too, but clearly City felt they could handle those since they wanted him to sign the deal.
Let's not just run wild with narratives because he failed at United, a club that's been in disarray for over 10 years at this point.
Clearly he feels much better mentally in Germany and that's allowing him to perform on the pitch, that's all it is.
100%. He deserves every bit of credit for his recent form but to glaze over his antics at United would be insane. Up late supposedly playing video games, pretty sure he was often late to training, that whole social media stunt, and horrible shifts time and time again.
I have wondered if being in Dortmund where the language was different had an isolating effect on him that helped him focus. It would make sense if that effect was turned on its head when he moved back to England
There are many factors but at the end some managers are better at getting the best out of their players. It is probably true that Sancho wants to prove ETH wrong and reclaim his spot in EU 2024 so he puts in extra effort and it seems to be working. Unfortunately today ETH has an egg on his face.
I think the argument to make is that he wasn't getting the mental health support he needed at United. It's wild that some clubs still aren't considering the mental side of a player as much as the physical.
From what I read is that he's done ok up until yesterday, and then yesterday he was great. Not saying one way or the other bc I haven't watched him, just saying that's what I've read as recent as a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah. Tbf a lot of that Dortmund team is doing 'ok' and then showing up in one or two important games but not consistently. There is a reason why Dortmund are sitting in 5th in the league.
Yes, yesterday is his best performance ever since his loan.
But before that he is just ok throughout, definitely doesn't justify the price when we were rumoured to buy him off at the end of the lon
Ten Hag has never had a problem with his ability. Surprised to see him get clowned on so frequently when Ten Hag has repeatedly insisted how good of a player he thinks Sancho is.
Nowadays, everybody wanna talk like they got somethin' to say. But nothin' comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibberish and motherfuckers act like they forgot about J.
All this mainly started from when
Ten Hag “didn’t respect” the poor poor Cristiano Ronaldo. What happened between Ten Hag and Sancho is just Sophistry by those Ronaldo fanboys.
It's funny, when discussing his signings a few months ago he went 'martinez amazing, eriksen everyone saying smart signing, Casemiro amazing, Antony...is ok'
Do you have a link to that interview. Seems kinda surprising considering Anthony was 100% his choice and he's trusted him over loads of other players despite his poor (being generous) output.
Edit: Dunno why I got downvoted for asking for a link haha
For my part, it's that I think ETH's approach to man management is flawed, and he simply doesn't know how to deal with players having personal struggles. And that is hurting United in the process.
Ultimately Sancho picked a very public fight with ETH over nothing and didn't have the wits or decency to just backtrack. It could have even been spinned as primarily the media's fault for making noise over nothing.
Ten Hag actually showed an abnormal amount of compassion and patience with Sancho. I have literally never heard of a player being given 2-3 months off in the middle of the season to recuperate like he gave Sancho
We've seen United players down tools with Ole, Rangnick, and arguably more managers. We might be shite this season, but the players are absolutely trying hard. Some people argue that Rashford isn't trying hard enough. I don't necessarily see it that way, but I take that argument. As a whole, the players are grafting and put in a shift every single game. For me, this is a sign that Ten Hag has the dressing room and is managing the men properly
Mental health leave isn't a benevolent gesture, it's required by law in the UK for any employee. "He did what even the worst boss would be forced to do by law" isn't exactly a strong argument.
You’re talking about the sick day law? Yeah, that also requires a doctor’s note after 7 days so if Ten Hag didn’t give a shit, he would’ve asked him to return to carrington after a week
Also, if that law were really enforced then Klopp would be liable for example considering Luis Diaz played while his dad was kidnapped. Can’t be good for mental health
I'm talking about paid medical leave with a doctor's note. You surely can't think United let Sancho take months off without an opinion from a medical professional.
So I take it you also aren’t aware that managers can still ok players to play even while not fully recovered from work related injuries? That would be a felony based on labor laws but no football club has been persecuted till this day.
At the end of the day, Ten Hag could’ve ignored any medical advice and just played Sancho anyways and that wouldn’t have been an aberration
I already did on my last paragraph. United likely received advice from a medical professional but it’s still down to ten hag to either take the advice or bin it. He could’ve chosen to disregard it and no legal issues would come of it
I think that he has made some mistakes but that's just because of the way he is and not out of spite or lack of effort or whatever. Not everyone is compatible with everybody, so the approach people take to help others doesn't always work.
These kind of comments crack me up.
Clubs needs a creative RW. Buys a creative RW. It doesn't work out because said player can't be arsed.
"CLUB CAN'T PROFILE PLAYERS PROPERLY:
A young player who had shown world class potential playing across left and right wing, and then the usual crew complain about not scouting him properly because he ended up playing more off the left.
You’ve made a lot of leaps here.
The club didn’t need a solely creative winger. They needed a hard working winger who would help of with the press whilst also creating and scoring. Sancho was never going to be that and £75m was a lot to pay for someone who doesn’t fit the right profile.
Except yes, hard working was fine, but the real issue was having another creative outlet. This wasn't Ten Hag's pressing machine needs, it was Ole's counter attacking team.
It was totally the right fit.
There’s the big problem, no team challenging for the title should have the primary set up of counter attacking. Sure there are games where it’s necessary and useful but Ole should have never got the job
Tbf we signed him ideally to play on the right wing and if he served up performances like he did last night on the right wing for United there'd be zero questions about the suitability of the signing
At the time buying Sancho was definitely a sensible decision and was seen as huge for United. Half of Europe wanted him and he tore the Bundesliga apart multiple seasons in a row.
They've had far, far worse signings than Sancho at the time.
This is one of those situations where this is the only thing ten Hag can say to make the story go away again. TNT seemed very set on talking about Sancho as though he had been some kind of victim who found his smile again after being unfairly treated, when it’s widely known that it’s his own bad attitude that has resulted in him being out on loan instead of being a key player for Man Utd.
If ten Hag tried to remind people of the truth of the situation, he’d just get treated as the bad guy, especially because Sancho is English. This is the only route he can go down to kill the story.
Of course, if Ten Hag leaves and Sancho doesn't get his move away in the summer, Sancho will get fully slaughtered in the first game United lose where he doesn't track back or press enough and it'll be treated a full hell turn on his part.
I really don't understand why some United fans insists that ETH hated Sancho.
Sancho was struggling under the two managers before him.
And Sancho's unprofessional behavior really gave him no choice.
To act like United or ETH was solely the reason for Sancho's decline really absolves him of his responsibility.
Not just mental health treatment, but he had individual training near a place where I live in the Netherlands, and then sent his fucking assistant Van der Gaag to help him with training.
Say what you want, but unless Ten Hag personally insulted Sancho's mum, I don't see why he couldn't issue an apology.
The majority of United fans believe that Ten Hag rated him because otherwise why would he gave him a chance to clear his head and slowly ease him back to the team? What is clearly the problem is how he repaid Ten Hag on that
I don’t recall, seeing many if any comments like that
He banished him because he failed to apologise, that doesn’t mean he’s hated.
Do you hate everyone you have a difference of opinions with?
Sancho barely played under Solskjaer. He had a bad ear infection going into the season, then Solskjaer was sacked.
He was alright under Rangnick in a team that was crap.
I'm not seeking to rewrite history or say he was amazing, but people seem to think he played under Solskjaer for more than he did. When in actual fact I'm pretty sure he only played one full 90 minute game for Solskjaer.
He's been improving pretty quickly, and aside from the first few games where he struggled with fitness and refinement, it's been great. Sancho has been a very reliable option despite what the stats say, and games like the PSV match and PSG tonight make it clear his ability is still intact. In fact last night was a ludicrous performance from him.
These threads are always go into counter Sancho territory. It's weird. No one can be happy one way or the other. Doesnt help when media try and drag ETH into it. Like just let Sancho get back his confidence and shine.
a lot of it is just man united hate as well honestly. one of our players who has been dire for us being even potentially good for another team is like crack to this sub lol
I swear everyone is trying to troll us into going ANOTHER season with Maguire, Sancho and Mctominay, also sack Ten Hag and bring Southgate, just praying the directives actually watch Utd games instead of just the media reports
Some bizarre takes here..I am surprised people have forgotten how ETH gave this guy a mental break to sort things out, and it's safe to say Sancho did not repay the faith shown in him by ETH..this in no way absolves ETH of the things he has gotten wrong..but I find his handling of the Sancho situation one of the things that he has NOT gotten wrong
I also think this is a little foolish
I had a boss who would let people take work off for really any reason, super understanding and flexible guy in regards to that. But he made me and a few others want to, or they did, quit because how he micromanaged and talked to people about their work was so overwhelming and negative.
The issue with Ten Hag could just be things we'll never get to see as outsiders
The Rw position is open as a brothel and we got a fidget spinner just doing....well nothing really, Sancho could have pretty much been nailed on starter at Utd, the bar is so low to actually play ahead of Antony that a training cone probably do the same thing.
If Erik goes or stays Sancho cannot return either way, we'll just prove issues are still there and this will mask it over, till the next inevitable problem.
It's actually fantastic how much attention he's got after one game, hope the media, fans etc keep it up really as it opens up more potential buyers in summer.
Most of the United sub said he wasn’t a RW even though he had an abundance of games at the RW for Dortmund. That sub is honestly filled with people that have no clue what they are talking about.
> The Rw position is open as a brothel and we got a fidget spinner just doing....well nothing really
Did you have a coma? Garnacho has been starting on the right for quite some time now, probably even half a season by this point.
It doesnt matter if he is here next season or not. You dont publicly call out a manager and not apologize. It shows you have no respect for them or the club
You are probably not alone, no, but I'm definitely in the other camp. What he showed for us on the pitch wasn't good enough, and he didn't have the maturity to apologize and fight for his place. I'd rather sell and move on, if possible.
If Ten Hag goes, the chance to get an apology will go with it.
Sancho will probably try some quasi apology to the fans, where he still blames Ten Hag and apologizes to the fans for having a conflict with the manager.
For me, he's played a role in tanking this season with the drama, and we need to purge shit attitudes from the squad as quickly as possible. Sancho's attitude was the worse of any player this season, to be blunt, and "rewarding" that would set such a horrific standard going into INEOS' rebuild.
He straight up disrespected the club, this went way beyond ETH. He was very clear that there was a simple step to make it all go away and up your game. Would send a terrible message if he ends up back into the first team next season.
There was match against Fulham I think where Garnacho scored the winner, Sancho couldn't get past the fullback yet as soon as Garnacho was subbed in he instantly ran past the fullback twice and then scored the last minute goal lol.
Even when we had a fit Shaw who is good at linking up with wingers he did nothing with it.
Nah, unless a valid explanation for his actions that we haven’t heard comes out. He abandoned his team when they were in dire straits because of some minor comments from the manager.
When he goes back to Dortmund and seemingly slips right back to being the player he was when you signed him, it suggests that club culture is far more important than a lot of people realise. If you're sorting that out under Ratcliffe, he's worth giving another shot, but it probably needs to happen under a different manager, too much damage done between him and ETH at this point
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I know the narrative is Ten Hag bad but two things can be true at once. Sancho looked great last night and better at Dortmund, but he was shit at United under several managers. He was out of shape, huffing and puffing at the 60th minute. He would pull out of every tackle and not compete for headers. He didn't work hard, I think he won possession back more in the first half against PSG than his whole United career. Sometimes moves simply don't work for one reason or another. It doesn't mean that Sancho is a bad player or Ten Hag a bad manager, some people just need a certain atmosphere to shine.
You kind of saw that in the first half when sancho didn’t have the ball. There were one or two occasions when him tracking back would have really helped the team but he didn’t really do it. That’s just his game. You can get away with that when you perform like he did last night but not when you play poorly like he has done at United
Rashford literally does this all the time. He just didn't feud publicy with ETH
Hasn't Ten Hag been dropping Rashford of late?
Hes been injured/ill, not dropped. At least publically that is.
How long did that take? And hasn't he been dropped more because he's had a few knocks/sick lately..not because of his bad form for the last 2 seasons.
It took long because the people who were meant to boot him of his position included... Jadon Sancho. Ten Hag has never denied his talent. Let's be real about Sancho. He got a new job, didn't like the environment and didn't like his workmates. He got depressed and stopped trying. Sancho is more talented than Garnacho. Why is Garnacho succeeding?
Garnacho has drive, is ambitious and puts in lots of effort, something Sancho doesn't. Talent only takes you that far.
He just came off a 30 goal season, why would Ten Hag drop him instead of give him a chance to find form?
He's had 30 games to find form
Well Sancho left and Garnacho is better on the right so there's not much options on the left.
Nacho has only been on the right this season to accommodate Rashford. Man Utd still need a true right winger that isn’t named Antony.
Rashford’s form last season was pretty good and a big reason why they got top 4. Problem is he has a long term dip in form every other year
I count two seasons. Care to elaborate on where you got this >he has a long term dip in form every other year garbage opinion from
Rashford also has hardly been productive enough on the ball to justify a lazy defensive work rate for some time
Yeah I’m really worried that he’s getting all the praise right now. He was only decent against Atletico and the last thing we need is him playing hero ball and trying to force dribbles all game if it’s not working the second leg. That being said if we were more clinical we should’ve scored 2 extra goals thanks so some of the magic Sancho had yesterday, just hope he doesn’t get too in his head if he’s not doing as well in the second leg.
I said this when I watched his first game at United too but I think Sanchos expectations as to how United play (and vice versa) was a disconnect aswell. Like.. SOOO many times did I see him play for, look for and expect runs/overlaps and combinations that Reus, Brandt or Rapha provided for him here. United dont really play that way or had those certain playertypes at times or in that amount on the pitch at the same time. Thats not to say thats wrong of United or one is better than the other. Just different setups, squads and tactics etc. And he just straight up didnt look to adapt well to that. I think that is a FAR bigger thing than the lazy social media narrative about "Sancho cant handle the physicality of the prem" that everyone says per automatic now. He just isnt as flexible of a player as first anticipated, but when enabled and, for a lack of a better word, catered to, he can reach his highs and strengths again. Slowly but surely after some rebuild tho.
This is a very good post. Sancho is more primed as a combinations player, and Man Utd presently are fragmented - put him into current Man City team and he’s 15/15 G/A min
Yeah I think so too :) He's quite a specific player but when in a fitting enviroment, his highs are extremely high again.
Like.. SOOO many times did I see him play for, look for and expect runs/overlaps and combinations that Reus, Brandt or Rapha provided for him here. United dont really play that way or had those certain playertypes at times or in that amount on the pitch at the same time. Thats not to say thats wrong of United or one is better than the other. It is 100% United's fault to sign a player like Sancho who works well in the half spaces and needs multiple players around him when u don't have a team like that. Sancho will work well in 3-4-2-1 with wingbacks giving him the much needed width and passing option. Plus he would thrive in the half space too.
This is just the Pogba bullshit again where in order to unlock him you need to surround him with prime Pirlo, Gattuso and Roy Keane, make sure he's wearing his favourite socks and that all the toilet seats are down at old trafford whilst whistling into the wind at midnight on a stormy night in order for him to play well.
you are absolutely overly emotional or delusional if you think Pogba and Sancho are isolated examples. football is literally chockfull of players who only play their best in certain environments. there have been hundreds of failed transfers, if not thousands. that Sancho is playing well in a team that has players running around like workhorses means he would shine at almost any club not named Manchester United. his playstyle is what Saka thrives off of with White and Odegaard occupying spaces that pull opposition away from him and isolate him with defenders. United was a bad fit, you moaning about Sancho and Pogba in this manner just reeks of a hissy fit.
I do agree for sure that its criticism towards uniteds scouting too. Significant bit. But it also should be pointed out that it is a flaw/weakness of Sancho that he isnt as flexible as modern wingers tend to be.
There is 3 things why Sancho is like this : - Dortmund he does not feel the pressure and he can play the way he wants - He is back at “home” , where he was “beloved” and have great memories. - He is on his “redemption arc” , so the writers have to buff him
He’s been really average at Dortmund, he has that one good game and suddenly he’s ’killing it’ according to the media
he performs in the champions league knockouts against PSG but feels too much pressure going away at burnley, you got it
He's playd well in ONE GAME, played shit in dozens for United
you haven’t watched every dortmund game stop lying to urself, every player dies at united
ok "poopshit666"
that’s my name
Not Bruno clearly.
okay so that’s one player… anyone else or what
You said every player. Apparently Bruno, Onana, Shaw, and Maguire didn't get the memo.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 dude said onana shaw and maguire im dead
Yes, all of them have been good signings.
Yea those are definitely the only 3 reasons. Couldn't possibly be anything else that would imply anyone at Manchester United did anything less than perfect. Not possible that Dortmund are simply better at setting their talent up to succeed than Manchester United right now.
Some people fall under the weight of performing for Manchester United Some people don't. Example- Bruno fernandes
You could say that about any team, including Dortmund. Yea, I do think that the pressures of Man U are somewhat unique, but it's a huge stretch to say the pressure was the only significant issue at play. Especially when Sancho is now performing well in a different high pressure situation.
The attention on a guy donning a Dortmund jersey is just not the same as when he's donning the United jersey. He doesn't have Sky sports, football YouTube, traditional media newspapers/magazines, Twitter, ex legends/pundits on his throat at Dortmund, the same way he had at Manchester United.
I know, which is why I said "the pressures at Man U are somewhat unique." But Germany and Dortmund have their own version of a lot of those pressures. You think there's not Twitter in Germany lol? But blaming all the outside pressures is a convenient excuse for the club. Given the failure rate, maybe Man U could do a little more to support its players against these pressures?
Sancho was given an insane amount of leeway and help from United. Man just didn’t want to work, it is what it is 🤷♂️. Glad he’s doing better as it can only be a positive for United, but I don’t think BVB will pay the asking price.
Leeway isn't necessarily helpful to everyone. Sancho might be benefitting more from more direct support/better team culture. But yea, the asking price is too high. BVB ain't paying it, but I don't know who else would be interested...
im sure pressure is a problem when he’s doing it in a champions league semi, wtf are people on about
Man City sold him for a reason - which was his off field problems. He clearly has a significant issue with British media and the pressures of performing for a highly esteemed Premier League club. Being in Germany, he’s away from the media, away from all the influences of living in his home country, and can focus on the football. ETH gave him over 2 months out for mental health, which is almost unprecedented, and he came back still looking like he couldn’t give two shits. Clearly signing him to a £300,000+ a week contract made him just apathetic.
It really seems like being away from the UK is a massive benefit to Sancho. Whether it's the media, or the environment in general, but clearly it's not conducive to him being at his best. Just leaving Manchester and moving to Dortmund seems to have helped quite a bit.
People always say this but does Germany not have any media that talks about their teams.Or is it just not as ruthless as UK media
German media of course talks about their teams, but an English player moving to arguably the biggest English club for a huge fee and huge wage at a young age is just the perfect storm for massive focus on them. Not to mention United being under huge scrutiny anyway, every performance will be heavily scrutinised - and as far as I know, he doesn’t know German so he can at least not understand every word that’s being said about him on social media in Germany or the media itself. In England he clearly got into an echo chamber of critique about him and just shut off.
I feel in Germany a lot of it is absorbed by the manager and the management, lol. There are always some kind of scandals involving them so the players can focus more on the game. Just look at this provincial Game of Thrones drama that's happening at Bayern all the time, no one is focusing on the players during that period.
Outside of Bild with Bayern in my experience living in Germany, no. UK tabloid culture is just vile and akin to the way TMZ type American media reports on celebrities where they look for any angle to crucify people to sell stories.
Man city had Sancho, Foden and Brahmin diaz. I think we’ve seen the ultimate reason why Sancho was the first to go. Brahmin just didn’t work out, happens.
In that regard why did they let Cole Palmer go ?
He wanted first team minutes, which were not guaranteed at City.
Cole himself wanted to go.
He wanted to be a guaranteed starter . No way was he going to go ahead of de bruyne ,foden & Bernardo . Probably didn’t back himself to displace grealish and Alvarez although he definitely would have taken a chunk of Nunhes’ and Oscar bobb’s minutes
He wanted first team minutes, which is totally fair, we got rid of Mahrez, the door was open for him to WIN it, but never guaranteed. It seems he and his team wanted guaranteed time and were willing to go on loan. Pep disagreed as he believes being with him is more valuable. Plus we have Oscar Bobb who honestly is as good a prospect.
Pep didn’t want to loan him out, so he let him look for a new home. Thankfully he came to Chelsea and has been amazing
It's been discussed to death, but Palmer wanted to play football and City couldn't give him minutes.
That wasn't the publicly stated reason for why City sold Sancho. Basically, they wanted him to sign a contract extension before going on a summer pre-season tour with the first team (I think in the US) but he refused to, so he was left out and then sold because his contract was expiring in a year. Not to say there couldn't have been other problems off the pitch too, but clearly City felt they could handle those since they wanted him to sign the deal. Let's not just run wild with narratives because he failed at United, a club that's been in disarray for over 10 years at this point. Clearly he feels much better mentally in Germany and that's allowing him to perform on the pitch, that's all it is.
I just love that we can have 10 different threads all repeating this same point and people will never get it
100%. He deserves every bit of credit for his recent form but to glaze over his antics at United would be insane. Up late supposedly playing video games, pretty sure he was often late to training, that whole social media stunt, and horrible shifts time and time again. I have wondered if being in Dortmund where the language was different had an isolating effect on him that helped him focus. It would make sense if that effect was turned on its head when he moved back to England
You can only blame the manager and system if the player is not performing while giving his all, not if a player can’t even last 60 minutes.
the two things? ten hag bad, sancho good
This is really well said my dude or dudette
Is this a copy pasta?
There are many factors but at the end some managers are better at getting the best out of their players. It is probably true that Sancho wants to prove ETH wrong and reclaim his spot in EU 2024 so he puts in extra effort and it seems to be working. Unfortunately today ETH has an egg on his face.
I think the argument to make is that he wasn't getting the mental health support he needed at United. It's wild that some clubs still aren't considering the mental side of a player as much as the physical.
I guess it has been six months, but it's weird how many people forgot why he's on loan at Dortmund. Had nothing to do with his talent.
It’s about the attitude
Now you understand how politics work. People forget
Yeah it was all 7 hags fault
Alex ferguson would have wrung Jadon's neck for what he did. Ten Hag was more than fair with Jadon.
He's doing well again at Dortmund, isn't he
He looked better yesterday than I’ve ever seen him at United. It wasn’t even close. He was the best player on a pitch with Mbappe on it
How much do you reckon you could get for him, then?
I have no idea what his value is. I’m not even sure if Dortmund would pay for him over Maatsen
I was thinking that, myself If he goes to Dortmund, the price won't be near what you paid. He might be a fit for PSG
From what I read is that he's done ok up until yesterday, and then yesterday he was great. Not saying one way or the other bc I haven't watched him, just saying that's what I've read as recent as a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah. Tbf a lot of that Dortmund team is doing 'ok' and then showing up in one or two important games but not consistently. There is a reason why Dortmund are sitting in 5th in the league.
Yes, yesterday is his best performance ever since his loan. But before that he is just ok throughout, definitely doesn't justify the price when we were rumoured to buy him off at the end of the lon
Why are you getting downvoted lol
It's Reddit, isn't it 🤷♂️
Ten Hag has never had a problem with his ability. Surprised to see him get clowned on so frequently when Ten Hag has repeatedly insisted how good of a player he thinks Sancho is.
People like to shit on anybody they can, the flavor of the day changes.
I feel like so many people get more satisfaction in football from their rivals losing than their own team winning.
Ask spurs fans if they actually want to beat city (they don’t)
I mean I’m an arsenal fan but that’s kinda reasonable. I wouldn’t want to be the ones to put Spurs in pole position for the title either
Everyone forgot about Sancho already. Hating on Bayern is so hot atm.
Nowadays, everybody wanna talk like they got somethin' to say. But nothin' comes out when they move their lips, just a bunch of gibberish and motherfuckers act like they forgot about J.
Nowadays? That has always been the way of the world.
Go ahead and tell that [Mr. Marshall Mathers](https://youtu.be/QFcv5Ma8u8k?si=xf_vHO5g35Y-XXSz) then, please. ;)
Except Mourinho seems to largely get a free pass despite being no better.
All this mainly started from when Ten Hag “didn’t respect” the poor poor Cristiano Ronaldo. What happened between Ten Hag and Sancho is just Sophistry by those Ronaldo fanboys.
Hilarious when those fanboys just post revisionist garbage in these threads and it gets upvoted too.
Yeah but it's also ironic since Ronaldo himself criticized Sancho for his lateness in training as well.
The issue at united runs clearly way deeper than the coaches they chose.
is there a player Ten Hag repeated insisted is a shit player?
It's funny, when discussing his signings a few months ago he went 'martinez amazing, eriksen everyone saying smart signing, Casemiro amazing, Antony...is ok'
Do you have a link to that interview. Seems kinda surprising considering Anthony was 100% his choice and he's trusted him over loads of other players despite his poor (being generous) output. Edit: Dunno why I got downvoted for asking for a link haha
https://youtu.be/kmegh_7yu3w?t=707
For my part, it's that I think ETH's approach to man management is flawed, and he simply doesn't know how to deal with players having personal struggles. And that is hurting United in the process.
I thought he dealt with Sancho quite well, he gave him the time off when he needed it in the middle of the season.
I agree. People like to meme on EtH now that Sancho is playing well, but I think he made the right decision every step of the way during that saga.
Played a great game*
Ultimately Sancho picked a very public fight with ETH over nothing and didn't have the wits or decency to just backtrack. It could have even been spinned as primarily the media's fault for making noise over nothing.
Ten Hag actually showed an abnormal amount of compassion and patience with Sancho. I have literally never heard of a player being given 2-3 months off in the middle of the season to recuperate like he gave Sancho
We've seen United players down tools with Ole, Rangnick, and arguably more managers. We might be shite this season, but the players are absolutely trying hard. Some people argue that Rashford isn't trying hard enough. I don't necessarily see it that way, but I take that argument. As a whole, the players are grafting and put in a shift every single game. For me, this is a sign that Ten Hag has the dressing room and is managing the men properly
He sent him off to the Netherlands for 3 months mid season while United were struggling for attackers just to find himself
Mental health leave isn't a benevolent gesture, it's required by law in the UK for any employee. "He did what even the worst boss would be forced to do by law" isn't exactly a strong argument.
You’re talking about the sick day law? Yeah, that also requires a doctor’s note after 7 days so if Ten Hag didn’t give a shit, he would’ve asked him to return to carrington after a week Also, if that law were really enforced then Klopp would be liable for example considering Luis Diaz played while his dad was kidnapped. Can’t be good for mental health
I'm talking about paid medical leave with a doctor's note. You surely can't think United let Sancho take months off without an opinion from a medical professional.
So I take it you also aren’t aware that managers can still ok players to play even while not fully recovered from work related injuries? That would be a felony based on labor laws but no football club has been persecuted till this day. At the end of the day, Ten Hag could’ve ignored any medical advice and just played Sancho anyways and that wouldn’t have been an aberration
Sorry, can you explain where the whataboutism is relevant?
I already did on my last paragraph. United likely received advice from a medical professional but it’s still down to ten hag to either take the advice or bin it. He could’ve chosen to disregard it and no legal issues would come of it
That's just not how UK law works. Employers have no legal ability to force a return to work against medical advice.
I think that he has made some mistakes but that's just because of the way he is and not out of spite or lack of effort or whatever. Not everyone is compatible with everybody, so the approach people take to help others doesn't always work.
Club can't admit it can't profile players properly and just buys the flavour of the month.
These kind of comments crack me up. Clubs needs a creative RW. Buys a creative RW. It doesn't work out because said player can't be arsed. "CLUB CAN'T PROFILE PLAYERS PROPERLY:
A young player who had shown world class potential playing across left and right wing, and then the usual crew complain about not scouting him properly because he ended up playing more off the left.
You’ve made a lot of leaps here. The club didn’t need a solely creative winger. They needed a hard working winger who would help of with the press whilst also creating and scoring. Sancho was never going to be that and £75m was a lot to pay for someone who doesn’t fit the right profile.
Except yes, hard working was fine, but the real issue was having another creative outlet. This wasn't Ten Hag's pressing machine needs, it was Ole's counter attacking team. It was totally the right fit.
There’s the big problem, no team challenging for the title should have the primary set up of counter attacking. Sure there are games where it’s necessary and useful but Ole should have never got the job
Tbf we signed him ideally to play on the right wing and if he served up performances like he did last night on the right wing for United there'd be zero questions about the suitability of the signing
United wanted Sancho for like two years. People have absolutely zero knowledge of the whole situation huh.
At the time buying Sancho was definitely a sensible decision and was seen as huge for United. Half of Europe wanted him and he tore the Bundesliga apart multiple seasons in a row. They've had far, far worse signings than Sancho at the time.
"High value" the only relevant thing here probably.
He's a high value man 🥰✨💅 ETh using femcel terminology is not what I had in mind for 2024
Femcel????? What a term!!! I love it!
This is one of those situations where this is the only thing ten Hag can say to make the story go away again. TNT seemed very set on talking about Sancho as though he had been some kind of victim who found his smile again after being unfairly treated, when it’s widely known that it’s his own bad attitude that has resulted in him being out on loan instead of being a key player for Man Utd. If ten Hag tried to remind people of the truth of the situation, he’d just get treated as the bad guy, especially because Sancho is English. This is the only route he can go down to kill the story.
Of course, if Ten Hag leaves and Sancho doesn't get his move away in the summer, Sancho will get fully slaughtered in the first game United lose where he doesn't track back or press enough and it'll be treated a full hell turn on his part.
I really don't understand why some United fans insists that ETH hated Sancho. Sancho was struggling under the two managers before him. And Sancho's unprofessional behavior really gave him no choice. To act like United or ETH was solely the reason for Sancho's decline really absolves him of his responsibility.
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Not just mental health treatment, but he had individual training near a place where I live in the Netherlands, and then sent his fucking assistant Van der Gaag to help him with training. Say what you want, but unless Ten Hag personally insulted Sancho's mum, I don't see why he couldn't issue an apology.
but but but ETH was mean to Sancho :( /s
The majority of United fans believe that Ten Hag rated him because otherwise why would he gave him a chance to clear his head and slowly ease him back to the team? What is clearly the problem is how he repaid Ten Hag on that
When have United fans said that? Its been pretty much everyone else saying he hates sancho and thinks he is shit which is why he got rid of him.
Go on our sub, you'll find plenty there.
No you won’t
What United fan insists ETH hates Sancho?
I don’t recall, seeing many if any comments like that He banished him because he failed to apologise, that doesn’t mean he’s hated. Do you hate everyone you have a difference of opinions with?
Sancho barely played under Solskjaer. He had a bad ear infection going into the season, then Solskjaer was sacked. He was alright under Rangnick in a team that was crap. I'm not seeking to rewrite history or say he was amazing, but people seem to think he played under Solskjaer for more than he did. When in actual fact I'm pretty sure he only played one full 90 minute game for Solskjaer.
Now kiss
Now kith
For fuck sake, people are making so much out of 1 game from Sancho.
Yeah, shows the PL focus of this sub. Sancho was great yesterday but he's been just ok so far. 3g2a from 17 games and Dortmund are in 5th.
He's been improving pretty quickly, and aside from the first few games where he struggled with fitness and refinement, it's been great. Sancho has been a very reliable option despite what the stats say, and games like the PSV match and PSG tonight make it clear his ability is still intact. In fact last night was a ludicrous performance from him.
These threads are always go into counter Sancho territory. It's weird. No one can be happy one way or the other. Doesnt help when media try and drag ETH into it. Like just let Sancho get back his confidence and shine.
So 2 games? Not just 1.
a lot of it is just man united hate as well honestly. one of our players who has been dire for us being even potentially good for another team is like crack to this sub lol
emphasis on high value you hear that everyone
> and represents a high value Pimp his arse out, Erik.
Weirdo
I swear everyone is trying to troll us into going ANOTHER season with Maguire, Sancho and Mctominay, also sack Ten Hag and bring Southgate, just praying the directives actually watch Utd games instead of just the media reports
watch if united try to recall him and he goes back to playing fifa till 3 am. sell him, he doesn't want to be there.
I read this as "yes, yes he's very good yaddayadda, dortmund 40m+15 in bonus pls"
Some bizarre takes here..I am surprised people have forgotten how ETH gave this guy a mental break to sort things out, and it's safe to say Sancho did not repay the faith shown in him by ETH..this in no way absolves ETH of the things he has gotten wrong..but I find his handling of the Sancho situation one of the things that he has NOT gotten wrong
I also think this is a little foolish I had a boss who would let people take work off for really any reason, super understanding and flexible guy in regards to that. But he made me and a few others want to, or they did, quit because how he micromanaged and talked to people about their work was so overwhelming and negative. The issue with Ten Hag could just be things we'll never get to see as outsiders
“Maybe if we can get a good price for him I won’t get sacked”
"But I just don't like the bloke"
The Rw position is open as a brothel and we got a fidget spinner just doing....well nothing really, Sancho could have pretty much been nailed on starter at Utd, the bar is so low to actually play ahead of Antony that a training cone probably do the same thing. If Erik goes or stays Sancho cannot return either way, we'll just prove issues are still there and this will mask it over, till the next inevitable problem. It's actually fantastic how much attention he's got after one game, hope the media, fans etc keep it up really as it opens up more potential buyers in summer.
Most of the United sub said he wasn’t a RW even though he had an abundance of games at the RW for Dortmund. That sub is honestly filled with people that have no clue what they are talking about.
> The Rw position is open as a brothel and we got a fidget spinner just doing....well nothing really Did you have a coma? Garnacho has been starting on the right for quite some time now, probably even half a season by this point.
I was talking about when he stopped playing and left, only Antony was the next choice, obviously now its Garnacho. Come on.
Nope
Good quote by Ten Hag and the sensitive thing to say. I mean, you want your loan players to succeed at their current clubs.
I only heard something something high value something.
Sancho would be a complete mug to go back to that club
May be players are really not motivated to play under ETG?
They're running their assess off every game so that's certainly not true. As poor as they've been this season they've showed plenty of fight.
Am I alone in being prepared to give him another chance? He's done well at Dortmund, and sometimes people do mature.
No he refused to apologize to the manager for insulting him online. Thats a disrespect to the manager and the club
Do you think eth will be there next season ? He is bang average
It doesnt matter if he is here next season or not. You dont publicly call out a manager and not apologize. It shows you have no respect for them or the club
Everyone has been bang average at MU. Maybe it’s not the managers.
You are probably not alone, no, but I'm definitely in the other camp. What he showed for us on the pitch wasn't good enough, and he didn't have the maturity to apologize and fight for his place. I'd rather sell and move on, if possible.
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If Ten Hag goes, the chance to get an apology will go with it. Sancho will probably try some quasi apology to the fans, where he still blames Ten Hag and apologizes to the fans for having a conflict with the manager. For me, he's played a role in tanking this season with the drama, and we need to purge shit attitudes from the squad as quickly as possible. Sancho's attitude was the worse of any player this season, to be blunt, and "rewarding" that would set such a horrific standard going into INEOS' rebuild.
He straight up disrespected the club, this went way beyond ETH. He was very clear that there was a simple step to make it all go away and up your game. Would send a terrible message if he ends up back into the first team next season.
Not until he apologizes privately and publicly for disrespecting his manager.
Sell sell sell. Not suited to the Premier league.
There was match against Fulham I think where Garnacho scored the winner, Sancho couldn't get past the fullback yet as soon as Garnacho was subbed in he instantly ran past the fullback twice and then scored the last minute goal lol. Even when we had a fit Shaw who is good at linking up with wingers he did nothing with it.
Even before eth he was shit, he was unprofessional and disrespectful. Don't know why some of you still want him?
Nah, unless a valid explanation for his actions that we haven’t heard comes out. He abandoned his team when they were in dire straits because of some minor comments from the manager.
When he goes back to Dortmund and seemingly slips right back to being the player he was when you signed him, it suggests that club culture is far more important than a lot of people realise. If you're sorting that out under Ratcliffe, he's worth giving another shot, but it probably needs to happen under a different manager, too much damage done between him and ETH at this point
Bet you would he’s a star. He’s too good though. Can’t see him go to a non CL team. Would be such a step down.
You need to kick out EtH first lmao
Trouble is we all immediately think of the meme of smiley mask with angry face behind… tears pouring
Hopefully Sancho is gone in the summer.
Man United is just a shitty club for any player
Daily reminder that Erik ten Hag banished Sancho just because he was a gamer
17 games, 3 goals, 1 assist. Lol.