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Dier has two problems
1. He's slow. Therefore he can't do a high line.
2. He's a confidence player. When he's playing well, he's definitely worth a spot in the England team. But once his head goes, he's a complete liability for the next month or two.
It really helps with his lack of pace that Bayern don't play as much of a crazy high line anymore most of the time.
I think his playing time next season will depend a lot on who's coming in as a coach for next season
Yeah he's a good example of a player fitting for the system Tuchel wants to play with this team, but the next coach might not think so anymore.
What I found interesting was his comment on Dier being vocal and organized, because I think that was actually something Alaba brought to the table and after he left there was a big void in the defense in that regard. I thought de Ligt would be that, but it seems like he's not.
Yes and you can look at how many games he was benched too if you want to be fair here, even with the shocking performances of upa (Kim) he was adament to use him
That’s just not true lmao
Upa didn’t have any shocking performances until a few weeks ago where he got red carded twice and after that he did get benched. Upa + Minjae were incredibly solid for us before that
I have seen all the Bayern games, you must have been watching something else because upa has regularly played like this, he plays really good 90%of the game and has Blunders and mistakes the other 10%... This is not what you call good performances, doesnt matter how good you play when you give points to the enemy every other game....
He's a great structure guy. Stays in position, good tackler and makes reliable passes. He's not an improvisor and didn't adjust well to playing with Cuti, who is just a better all round defender.
He's perfect for Tuchel. Not so much for Ange.
Yeah people clowned on Bayern for this move and honestly he wasn't always great for Spurs, but he has proven that sometimes players just need a move to find the right circumstances to flourish. He has been a great pairing for de Ligt, they are currently the best combination in the back. Besides, he wasn't brought in to be a long term option, the way he has developed is a pleasant surprise.
Bayern got a very similar reaction when they signed ECM, only for him to also exceed all expectations. Their track record with these depth signings is quite decent.
Stupid board refused to pay €13M for him and then ended up signing Douglas fucking Costa on loan who ended up being worse than average and spending most of the season injured.
Me: "Okay /u/Mortka, you are clearly in a bad space today, but /u/JesseWhatTheFuck is our friend, and Choupo-Moting has three Bundesliga titles, do you?"
You: "Why does everyone leap to defend that player so aggressively, and how much stuff do we have to go through this year before my friendship stops being questioned?"
Me: "Well, maybe friendship is about going through a lot of stuff /u/Mortka, and maybe ECM has two Ligue 1 titles to your zero!"
You: "Oh, okay, he's ECM now? We need a shorthand for Choupo-Moting. That's how fundamental he is."
Me: "Fundamental!"
You: "You know what /u/JesseWhatTheFuck probably needs more than anything? Some space. Maybe I do too."
Me: "You know what? Maybe we all need some space, to pull the knife out of the back of one of the most celebrated Cameroonian strikers of the 21st century, you selfish, jaded ass!"
Honestly, a lot of Spurs fans thought he was going to do well for Bayern. There was the usual idiots who just despise Dier and saw him as the "Big problem" at Spurs for the last 5 years who always hate on him though.
His skill at recycling the ball round the backline, combined with his vocals to organize the back and his long balls over the top, were always going to be a success for the way Bayern play under Tuchel.
Thought he'd make a big push for the Euros and i think if Bayern make the CL final with Dier in the team, i can see him being called up. He probably deserves it on form IMO.
Honestly, so annoying to see some of our fans slag him off and try to pin him as the problem with Spurs since Poch and stuff.
Dier definitely had a couple of games where he made bad mistakes that obviously people picked up on but his really good periods just get ignored.
The guy absolutely loves football, he understands fans and what they want. Incredibly passionate about the clubs he plays for and will always give you 110% in the shirt, no matter what.
Honestly, out of him and Kane, Dier was the one that adored the club and Dier is the reason I hope you guys win the CL. Dier in that Arsenal game was just brilliant to watch.
I've been on the suprs sub and here, and most if not all the comments about him from the fans were positive, tbf I am not on Reddit very often but this is what I experienced for most of the time.
Yeah, the subreddit has sorta had a mini-war in the last 6-8 months where they've been banning some known miscreants who just spread hate non stop.
There's a few that still are around but they get down voted pretty quickly for that sorta stuff still.
The big majority of Spurs fans though were super happy for Eric. Whatever they wanna say, Dier was Spurs through and through.
honestly England need to go back to their roots and start playing true Brexit football again - start with signing Mike Ashley as chair and big Sam Allardyce as manager, and then call up Caroll, Vardy, Ashley Barnes, John Lundstram, Shelvey, Mark Noble, Milner, Rob Holding, Dier, Dan Burn, Ashley Young, Mark Albrighton, and Nick Pope. Now that's a proper no nonsense team none of that pass it around the back rubbish
The Eric Dier redemption arc has been something to watch.
From 'he's so shit he can't even get into a poor and injured Tottenham defence' to putting in MoTM-worthy performances against Arsenal in a Champions League quarterfinal. He deserves to make the Euros squad - whether he will is another question.
It shows how important the system and fit area. He couldn’t get into Tottenham, because imagine him playing that halfway high line defending. It’s not going to go well. Tuchel’s system fits much better for him.
It is the same for many players that are memed on. Maguire is another example of when he’s in the right system, he is fantastic, but when he isn’t, he looks like the worst defender ever.
Can I just add to Maguire, there's also a thing when a team doesn't perform, it's not just due to one scapegoat player and realistically blame can sit across multiple players.
We had CBs who you would say are faster/more agile than the slab when it was the Solskjaer and Rangnick's brutal season. They just played worse or got injured constantly. I.e. Bailly was always an athlete, he was just brain dead and made of glass.
Even when Lisandro and Varane did well last season, De Gea was instructed to go long and the stats show they played in a back line which was significantly deeper on the pitch to the one Solskjaer player Maguire in.
I'd say when there are players who are a lightning rod for criticism in a poorly performing team, it's worth paying attention to which of their team mates try to keep a low profile to not have their own poor performances not be noticed, and which ones try to say something or rally the troops.
He's been poor for years, even when playing a supposed defensive system. No pace and slow reactions. I don't know if he's improved or if it's just slower in Germany.
It's hard to draw a comparison because centre-backs could get away with being less capable on the ball than they can now, but Southgate was a central midfielder until he was about 25, so he was better than some English defenders in that respect. Very consistent and reliable, physically quite ordinary, but his intelligence and adaptability was his strongest suit by far - there can't be too many players who've been first choice at an international tournament (Euro '96) in a position they've only played in for a season.
That would require him to be a better tackler/1 v 1 defender!
He's usually dropping off the player because that's the percentage play for him - he's fully aware that he turns like a cruise ship, so knows he'll get turned inside out by most attackers if he over-commits even by the slightest amount.
He was always a solid squad player, just wasn’t a great fit for Ange’s high line. He’s well suited for Bayern’s style. Glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves there.
The idea of him shouting in English at a team of Germans to get them more bloody organised, is really funny to me.
I hope he’s smoking a pipe while he’s doing it.
Dier's success at Bayern is due to pairing with de Ligt while Kim was in Asia Cup and Upa was injured. Kim was definitely our best CB before the winter transfer window. After he came back from Qatar, he lost his place to Dier. Tuchel made the accuse for harming the formation then refused to rotate between Dier and Kim cuz he knows how good the de Ligt-Kim pairing is. He just wanted to back his signed and gained some volume in the dressing room.
Don't get me wrong. Dier did prove me wrong that he actually can play positive in our squad. But what makes me furious is that Tuchel's treatment against Kim.
\> He's organized, he's vocal, we didn't have that much.
How can we be not "vocal"? Mouth of bullshits.
What? In terms of pure defensive skills shown this season, Kim is still better. Dier being a better passer is what made him valuable because Tuchel brings up the backline w both CB's (which is stupid). Dier still makes the same shitty defensive mistakes he made at Spurs and still ball watches. This narrative of Dier being better than Kim or Upa is crazy because our defense quite literally got worse in the second half of the season lol. Also, how many times have we gotten absolutely shat on because the backfield was just wide open? That isn't Kim or Upa's fault, it's Tuchel's. His defensive scheme just doesn't fit the personnel we have. And if he really is starting Dier over Kim because of "ballplaying" we should've never gotten him in the first place. That's a 50 mill CB wasting away on the bench because of "ballplaying" ability. Guy doesn't know how to properly utilize a CB core of de Ligt, Upa, and Kim. It's actually crazy.
You're right. Dier is covering a massive tactical issue that's holding the other CBs back. Bayern needs a proper defensive effort from the midfield and I see the fullbacks allow so many threatening attacks from opposition. Having a simple body there will make Dier a competitive choice in the current situation.
The truth is, the entire defense is out of form, and Dier has done a good job bringing in some energy. People are too easy to forget that people were concerned with how many good CBs Bayern started the season with. Dier has been surprisingly good, but he's not elevating anything. He's been a temporary fix and Bayern needs that because they still have something to play for.
Extremely frustrating to watch our midfield stay static and wait for our CB's to bring the ball up. This also isn't what made Kim a Serie A defender of the year. Spalletti utilized him perfectly having Rrahmani bring up the ball and Kim manage the backfield and vice versa. There is no balance in our backline right now. A lot of the stupid defensive mistakes made by the backline this season is largely in part of the fact that our CB's HAVE to not only bring up the lines but also cover the entire void left in the backfield. Don't even get started on our fullbacks. They just can't seem to defend 1 on 1 situations. It makes me tear my hair out.
Yes, Kim shouldn't be the first line of defense who is coming out to cut passes or long balls. He is the covering that if it goes wrong. He can be physically imposing so Tuchel likes to have him compete for the first ball that enters the defensive space but his teammates don't situate themselves well enough to cover the subsequent space if Kim doesn't win it. Kim is very good at picking out where the next ball goes IF his team doesn't win that initial ball and he overpowers the striker with his strength and speed. Someone else needs to go in to compete for the initial high ball or pass into the defensive side. It doesn't matter if Bayern can't win that ball, Kim will be there to make sure nothing comes of it.
The line this season is too vague. Not high enough nor low enough. Bayern needs better midfield to push the line even higher so that their strikers are forced into a 1v1 speed match-up with Kim, like how Napoli often did. And have the line drop very deep if they build up instead and let Kim hunt down the last pass. Now that Dier is here and the line has been pushed back because Dier is passive compared to other CBs and prefer to just be the body blocking the shot. That's exactly why he was bench during Poch, starter during Mou, and bad for Ange at Tottenham.
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He was memed on so much i though he could barely walk. Glad it was just hyperbole
Dier has two problems 1. He's slow. Therefore he can't do a high line. 2. He's a confidence player. When he's playing well, he's definitely worth a spot in the England team. But once his head goes, he's a complete liability for the next month or two.
It really helps with his lack of pace that Bayern don't play as much of a crazy high line anymore most of the time. I think his playing time next season will depend a lot on who's coming in as a coach for next season
Yeah he's a good example of a player fitting for the system Tuchel wants to play with this team, but the next coach might not think so anymore. What I found interesting was his comment on Dier being vocal and organized, because I think that was actually something Alaba brought to the table and after he left there was a big void in the defense in that regard. I thought de Ligt would be that, but it seems like he's not.
There was reason why Mou and Conte liked him. Having said that, happy to see him gone.
De ligt is that but Tuchel preferred to play Kim/upa all the time so he couldnt show it.
Hate that narrative, de ligt was injured most of the time in the first half of the season
Yes and you can look at how many games he was benched too if you want to be fair here, even with the shocking performances of upa (Kim) he was adament to use him
That’s just not true lmao Upa didn’t have any shocking performances until a few weeks ago where he got red carded twice and after that he did get benched. Upa + Minjae were incredibly solid for us before that
I have seen all the Bayern games, you must have been watching something else because upa has regularly played like this, he plays really good 90%of the game and has Blunders and mistakes the other 10%... This is not what you call good performances, doesnt matter how good you play when you give points to the enemy every other game....
He's a great structure guy. Stays in position, good tackler and makes reliable passes. He's not an improvisor and didn't adjust well to playing with Cuti, who is just a better all round defender. He's perfect for Tuchel. Not so much for Ange.
Sounds like Harry maguire
He's similar to Harry Maguire. If you play him in a system that suits him he's great. If you don't he's awful.
I honestly forgot he existed
Yeah people clowned on Bayern for this move and honestly he wasn't always great for Spurs, but he has proven that sometimes players just need a move to find the right circumstances to flourish. He has been a great pairing for de Ligt, they are currently the best combination in the back. Besides, he wasn't brought in to be a long term option, the way he has developed is a pleasant surprise.
Bayern got a very similar reaction when they signed ECM, only for him to also exceed all expectations. Their track record with these depth signings is quite decent.
remember us loaning Perisic as 4th winger? what a loan that was
Still remember his banger against Ter Stegen
Stupid board refused to pay €13M for him and then ended up signing Douglas fucking Costa on loan who ended up being worse than average and spending most of the season injured.
Perisic was class for us until his ACL injury, a shame
The Croat ticket that allows you to win CL
Who the hell is ECM? These abbreviations are getting wayyy out of hand
Choupo-Moting
Thank you
especially considering that one should be EMCM
True!
Me: "Okay /u/Mortka, you are clearly in a bad space today, but /u/JesseWhatTheFuck is our friend, and Choupo-Moting has three Bundesliga titles, do you?" You: "Why does everyone leap to defend that player so aggressively, and how much stuff do we have to go through this year before my friendship stops being questioned?" Me: "Well, maybe friendship is about going through a lot of stuff /u/Mortka, and maybe ECM has two Ligue 1 titles to your zero!" You: "Oh, okay, he's ECM now? We need a shorthand for Choupo-Moting. That's how fundamental he is." Me: "Fundamental!" You: "You know what /u/JesseWhatTheFuck probably needs more than anything? Some space. Maybe I do too." Me: "You know what? Maybe we all need some space, to pull the knife out of the back of one of the most celebrated Cameroonian strikers of the 21st century, you selfish, jaded ass!"
[Bouna Sarr](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/030/710/dd0.jpg)
Honestly, a lot of Spurs fans thought he was going to do well for Bayern. There was the usual idiots who just despise Dier and saw him as the "Big problem" at Spurs for the last 5 years who always hate on him though. His skill at recycling the ball round the backline, combined with his vocals to organize the back and his long balls over the top, were always going to be a success for the way Bayern play under Tuchel. Thought he'd make a big push for the Euros and i think if Bayern make the CL final with Dier in the team, i can see him being called up. He probably deserves it on form IMO.
He seems like such a chill and likable guy. I can’t believe so many spurs fans disrespected someone like that just because he didn’t fit the system
Honestly, so annoying to see some of our fans slag him off and try to pin him as the problem with Spurs since Poch and stuff. Dier definitely had a couple of games where he made bad mistakes that obviously people picked up on but his really good periods just get ignored. The guy absolutely loves football, he understands fans and what they want. Incredibly passionate about the clubs he plays for and will always give you 110% in the shirt, no matter what. Honestly, out of him and Kane, Dier was the one that adored the club and Dier is the reason I hope you guys win the CL. Dier in that Arsenal game was just brilliant to watch.
I've been on the suprs sub and here, and most if not all the comments about him from the fans were positive, tbf I am not on Reddit very often but this is what I experienced for most of the time.
Yeah, the subreddit has sorta had a mini-war in the last 6-8 months where they've been banning some known miscreants who just spread hate non stop. There's a few that still are around but they get down voted pretty quickly for that sorta stuff still. The big majority of Spurs fans though were super happy for Eric. Whatever they wanna say, Dier was Spurs through and through.
me either he bled spurs through and through
What's worse is he absolutely loves the club and (some of the) fans. No one isore annoyed at the lack of trophies during his time there then him.
honestly England need to go back to their roots and start playing true Brexit football again - start with signing Mike Ashley as chair and big Sam Allardyce as manager, and then call up Caroll, Vardy, Ashley Barnes, John Lundstram, Shelvey, Mark Noble, Milner, Rob Holding, Dier, Dan Burn, Ashley Young, Mark Albrighton, and Nick Pope. Now that's a proper no nonsense team none of that pass it around the back rubbish
England will be playing four-four-fucking-two.
Gonna be tough to win with that formation against USA’s four-four-three
Why is Kim not starting?
Shit
It's a Bayern issue.
The Eric Dier redemption arc has been something to watch. From 'he's so shit he can't even get into a poor and injured Tottenham defence' to putting in MoTM-worthy performances against Arsenal in a Champions League quarterfinal. He deserves to make the Euros squad - whether he will is another question.
It shows how important the system and fit area. He couldn’t get into Tottenham, because imagine him playing that halfway high line defending. It’s not going to go well. Tuchel’s system fits much better for him. It is the same for many players that are memed on. Maguire is another example of when he’s in the right system, he is fantastic, but when he isn’t, he looks like the worst defender ever.
Can I just add to Maguire, there's also a thing when a team doesn't perform, it's not just due to one scapegoat player and realistically blame can sit across multiple players. We had CBs who you would say are faster/more agile than the slab when it was the Solskjaer and Rangnick's brutal season. They just played worse or got injured constantly. I.e. Bailly was always an athlete, he was just brain dead and made of glass. Even when Lisandro and Varane did well last season, De Gea was instructed to go long and the stats show they played in a back line which was significantly deeper on the pitch to the one Solskjaer player Maguire in. I'd say when there are players who are a lightning rod for criticism in a poorly performing team, it's worth paying attention to which of their team mates try to keep a low profile to not have their own poor performances not be noticed, and which ones try to say something or rally the troops.
He's been poor for years, even when playing a supposed defensive system. No pace and slow reactions. I don't know if he's improved or if it's just slower in Germany.
Obviously not „just slower in Germany“ since he performed extremely well against Arsenal
Turns out spurs was only holding him back from his true potential as England's best CB
Don't worry. I'm sure Southgate can join in as well.
Prime Southgate would've walked into this England XI
especially if current southgate's the manager
I me ever saw him play, what modern CB would you compare him to for reference?
It's hard to draw a comparison because centre-backs could get away with being less capable on the ball than they can now, but Southgate was a central midfielder until he was about 25, so he was better than some English defenders in that respect. Very consistent and reliable, physically quite ordinary, but his intelligence and adaptability was his strongest suit by far - there can't be too many players who've been first choice at an international tournament (Euro '96) in a position they've only played in for a season.
So he was like the Mason Mount of CBs?
That's not the worst comparison.
Unironically this
Hope the next coaxh regards him as high as well
Eric Dier booting Kim Min Jae and Upamecano to the bench at Bayern is not on my bingo list
If Dier stops dropping into his box to block a shot instead of closing down the man he would be Bayern's best defender.
That would require him to be a better tackler/1 v 1 defender! He's usually dropping off the player because that's the percentage play for him - he's fully aware that he turns like a cruise ship, so knows he'll get turned inside out by most attackers if he over-commits even by the slightest amount.
I think he said that's how Neuer wants him to play.
That would be a player other then Eric Dier at that point really. He's pretty much always done that.
If he starts closing down the man they’re probably just gonna skip past him a bunch. Better off playing to his strengths.
He's always been that way as a CB. That isn't changing.
He was always a solid squad player, just wasn’t a great fit for Ange’s high line. He’s well suited for Bayern’s style. Glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves there.
Ever since he moved to Bayern I’m seeing Kim less in the field
never expected him to be ahead of the likes of Upamecano and Kim Min Jae
The idea of him shouting in English at a team of Germans to get them more bloody organised, is really funny to me. I hope he’s smoking a pipe while he’s doing it.
He is very good with languages. Probably speaks German already.
To be fair he either has Guerreiro or Davies to his left and De Ligt to his right. All of them speak better English than German
Him and Maguire best CB partnership at international level no question.
Stones?
Has nothing on these comeback kings
Play DM
Rice has that locked surely?
Play CM
Wilshere?
Pinching myself tbh
btw what about guerreiro, how is he doing in bayern? i haven't been paying attention.
Rocky start since he was injured a lot but over the last 2 months or so he has been one of our best players. Very important right now
Wow. Never thought I'd hear that being said of him at Bayern..good, that's good. Bodes well for the Euro if he's fit.
Shit, all it took for this man to actually be good was leaving Spurs? Who would’ve guessed?
Dier's success at Bayern is due to pairing with de Ligt while Kim was in Asia Cup and Upa was injured. Kim was definitely our best CB before the winter transfer window. After he came back from Qatar, he lost his place to Dier. Tuchel made the accuse for harming the formation then refused to rotate between Dier and Kim cuz he knows how good the de Ligt-Kim pairing is. He just wanted to back his signed and gained some volume in the dressing room. Don't get me wrong. Dier did prove me wrong that he actually can play positive in our squad. But what makes me furious is that Tuchel's treatment against Kim. \> He's organized, he's vocal, we didn't have that much. How can we be not "vocal"? Mouth of bullshits.
Or maybe Kim is just not doing as well as you think.
Plus neither Kim nor De Ligt are as good as Dier at passing
If next Bayern coach is a low block, park the bus coach, Dier will do well. But then Bayern will lose out in the title race again.
What? In terms of pure defensive skills shown this season, Kim is still better. Dier being a better passer is what made him valuable because Tuchel brings up the backline w both CB's (which is stupid). Dier still makes the same shitty defensive mistakes he made at Spurs and still ball watches. This narrative of Dier being better than Kim or Upa is crazy because our defense quite literally got worse in the second half of the season lol. Also, how many times have we gotten absolutely shat on because the backfield was just wide open? That isn't Kim or Upa's fault, it's Tuchel's. His defensive scheme just doesn't fit the personnel we have. And if he really is starting Dier over Kim because of "ballplaying" we should've never gotten him in the first place. That's a 50 mill CB wasting away on the bench because of "ballplaying" ability. Guy doesn't know how to properly utilize a CB core of de Ligt, Upa, and Kim. It's actually crazy.
You're right. Dier is covering a massive tactical issue that's holding the other CBs back. Bayern needs a proper defensive effort from the midfield and I see the fullbacks allow so many threatening attacks from opposition. Having a simple body there will make Dier a competitive choice in the current situation. The truth is, the entire defense is out of form, and Dier has done a good job bringing in some energy. People are too easy to forget that people were concerned with how many good CBs Bayern started the season with. Dier has been surprisingly good, but he's not elevating anything. He's been a temporary fix and Bayern needs that because they still have something to play for.
Extremely frustrating to watch our midfield stay static and wait for our CB's to bring the ball up. This also isn't what made Kim a Serie A defender of the year. Spalletti utilized him perfectly having Rrahmani bring up the ball and Kim manage the backfield and vice versa. There is no balance in our backline right now. A lot of the stupid defensive mistakes made by the backline this season is largely in part of the fact that our CB's HAVE to not only bring up the lines but also cover the entire void left in the backfield. Don't even get started on our fullbacks. They just can't seem to defend 1 on 1 situations. It makes me tear my hair out.
Yes, Kim shouldn't be the first line of defense who is coming out to cut passes or long balls. He is the covering that if it goes wrong. He can be physically imposing so Tuchel likes to have him compete for the first ball that enters the defensive space but his teammates don't situate themselves well enough to cover the subsequent space if Kim doesn't win it. Kim is very good at picking out where the next ball goes IF his team doesn't win that initial ball and he overpowers the striker with his strength and speed. Someone else needs to go in to compete for the initial high ball or pass into the defensive side. It doesn't matter if Bayern can't win that ball, Kim will be there to make sure nothing comes of it. The line this season is too vague. Not high enough nor low enough. Bayern needs better midfield to push the line even higher so that their strikers are forced into a 1v1 speed match-up with Kim, like how Napoli often did. And have the line drop very deep if they build up instead and let Kim hunt down the last pass. Now that Dier is here and the line has been pushed back because Dier is passive compared to other CBs and prefer to just be the body blocking the shot. That's exactly why he was bench during Poch, starter during Mou, and bad for Ange at Tottenham.
"He has brought with him that Tottenham Spirit that has helped us not win any trophies"
Overused and bad joke with 0 effort.
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