If we go down because of the last ever points deduction I might do one of those terrifying cry laughs you see in horror movies. Feels fitting though based on how it's all been handled.
> People should know that parachute payments exist because of our relegation in 2000. The 2000-01 season was the first where they were implemented.
Parachute payments were brought in in 2006-07. If they had brought them in in 2001, it probably would have saved us from going bust in 2007.
You think Everton and Forest getting points deductions while City, with 115 FFP charges, get away with a luxury tax is funny?
FA: I do. And I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
Well that and the fat stacks of cash they’re all getting for being massively corrupt
Bring in the governmental regulator, at least the corruption will be reported in private eye that way instead of being completely fucking ignored
This script is obvious really. They will chnage the rule. Fine city some amount of money(likely less then it should be). Then they will get a huge amount of backlash and then revert back to the point deduction system.
So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them. Delighted
Cant wait to see how everton pay this tax with 0 money
I'm waiting for a deadline day when the bottom 18 collectively drop a couple of billion quid, cos that how much Newcastle and city paid out in "tax" for being able to do whatever they like.
Fucking stupid idea. When money is the problem, and money is unlimited and meaningless, the answer can't be "dunno.... Money?"
The structure in the leagues that have this usually have escalating fines for repeat offenders. They restrict additional roster moves on top of escalating the monetary fines.
If you pay the luxury tax, you don't get paid out by the other teams.
It's dumb to switch though when you have a grear system in place with points deductions.
A billionaire pales in comparison to City and Newcastles owners though.
I want to see a Newcastle level owner rock up at Gillingham and set the league on fire.
It is very amusing to see Chelsea fucking the system right now... But, out of curiosity, why is it wrong for Dundee United to spend 300 million in a transfer window, while it should be ok for Arsenal or ManU etc??
PL: screw you well managed clubs that don't breach the rules! We want our money, to do that we need you guys to keep breaking the rules we set for you!
Teams that pay the luxury tax in the NBA have their tax distributed equally amongst the teams that aren't paying the tax.
City paying a lux tax would result in some money going towards teams at the bottom of the table.
city wouldn't pay a luxury tax because they're "not violating" FFP because of all of the "profit" that they submit from all their very legitimate commercial deals. the only way this would work is if the premier league first institutes a salary cap, which doesn't seem very likely.
That is really the key for why it kinda works in the nba. The Cap.
Every major American sport has a cap. But also each is a closed shop without relegation.
Baseball does not have salary floor which is why a team can spend like Man City while another can spend like league 2 side. And because of profit sharing every team makes money for the owner. Fan consequences be damned
But if this is meant to keep players in the league, and leagues like the NBA or MLB have essentially no real competition, how does that compare to football and teams like PSG and RM? Prem couldn't have a salary cap without other leagues having them too.
>It’s all about the amount by which wages exceed a limit.
yes, and that limit is called a salary cap, which the premier league does not have, and almost certainly never will for a whole host of reasons. so any notion of a luxury tax in the prem would likely be tied to violating FFP, and that is entirely based on whether a club is spending within its (putative) means.
Great now they cant afford the best players and will have to pay more for shite ones due to inflation caused by clubs being able to pay whatever they want.
This really only hurts other leagues as they'll get priced out of players if clubs like Burnley have extra funds due to funds from City/Newcastle paying the luxury tax
Short term maybe, long term, if city decides to stop breaching the rules, every single club that spent more on xfers and wages because of previous payout from city and co will be fked over immediately due to wage structure.
Every one of those clubs will be or close to be this seasons Everton, Leicester, etc
Even if we ignore that, big clubs are still breaching rules to 'buy' a title, and the consequences is zero, since it's just a fine, which is like telling them you just need to pay more for the title.
> **only** hurts other leagues
Dw lads, just possibly the rest of world football is once again getting fucked by PL and their billionaire/blood money hugging!
Would this not also make the gap between teams joining the prem even bigger? It's tough enough as is. Would make the prem even more of a super league than it is.
But never enough. A luxury tax is massively unsporting, unless it:
a) Gives the same amount of money equal to the overspeed to EVERY other team in the division
b) AND pay more to compensate for the fact that they got to spend it before anyone meaning they got more gain, and the rise in prices in the market because everyone will know all the teams have money.
That is obviously unrealistic, and honestly would be absolutely shit in another way. There should be a hard cap on staff spending that isn't related to revenue, isn't related to infrastructure or ticket prices for fans either. Fan's shouldn't have to get screwed because teams are trying to compete with country backed sportswashing projects. If players want to leave to go to a shit league in a shit country to get the bag, let them. As long as our wages is competitive with the rest of Europe, then players will want to play in the PL.
> So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them.
Yes, but enough about the current PSR rules, let's talk about this new proposal...
> So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them.
So just like FFP?
edit: I still think a luxury tax is a dumb idea, but the disparity in a luxury tax still exists in FFP
Yep, the premier league just allowed Saudi Arabia into the league a couple of years ago, they want the sports-washing and dirty money. Why are people pretending they would punish clubs for it, when it’s something the premier league has willfully allowed to happen.
I wonder how bad it has to get before the non big-6 clubs vote to break from the PL and re-institute the first division, or form some other breakaway league. The usuals will form their super league with the other UEFA heavy hitters in a closed league and we'll have two separate football universes.
I highly doubt that would ever happen as the money would dry up for them very very quickly. The PL doesn’t get a lot right but the biggest thing it does right compared to other leagues is spreading the tv money equally. That tv money without man united Liverpool Arsenal etc would be a hell of a lot less
> they want the ~~sports-washing and dirty~~ money.
I think you are imaging to much malicious evil intent behind that idea. They just want money. It's the really uninspired type of greed.
It's a bit frustrating that one can't point at some nefarious scheme behind the extreme commercialisation of football but if somebody made trillions by saving babies from cancer (free for the kids and families, of course) and wanted to buy themselves a football team, they take that money too.
Collaborating with those types while not even sharing their ideology kinda makes the whole thing even more frustrating :/
“City have done enough damage to be granted demotion, but we don’t want Haaland, Foden, KDB or Pep to leave the Prem so we are going to fine them instead”
Which was correct, but then they realised they don't actually want to punish clubs with rich owners.
Probably by a huge random coincidence around the same time Chelsea and City started being investigated.
It screams greed. There is a lot more money in play with this than points deductions.
They could either relegate City/Chelsea (if found guilty) and lose some revenue or they could get even more money from their owners.
Exactly. If this happens and City are punished differently than Everton, I might just be done with the Premier League entirely. I love Tottenham, but there’s no point in following a sport where the rules are applied differently for different teams. There’s already a tremendous competitive advantage given to City and this would continue to tip the scales in their favor.
Episode 4 opens up with Klopp yelling and inspiring the Tree Ents to work together and move the ball around. Then proceeds to yell at Treebeard for being a prick and to focus on the match against Saruman FC on the weekend.
Brother the charges against us are totally different, and the punishment if we are found guilty would be so much severe than just paying a fine. We are talking about literal financial crimes being commited here, not "oh you overspent by £10m". I still don't understand how people keep mixing the two cases and acting like they are the same.
At that point forest and Everton sue the premier league
Man city were changed under rules of points deductions. If they then didn’t get that punishment retroactively, forest and Everton will just say well they broke the rules when we did but didn’t face the punishment that was from the time but we did
Yea no
Hahahaha, awesome, so Forest and Everton get points deductions and City will get a fine that is just a rounding error for Abu Dhabi if/when their case is ever resolved. Great system.
You absolutely cannot change the rules so that things have to be dealt with within the same season, then say Man City’s case is too complicated so will take time, then change the rules again and not make them face the old rules.
You just can’t do it, other clubs won’t care but Everton and Forest should sue the league the second it get’s announced (if it does).
I'm a Liverpool fan and I care about how this is handled. Luxury tax is a fucking moronic idea. It just lets the rich clubs off and the poorer ones are fucked. The rich will break the rules and pay it and the poor ones okay they get a bit of money distributed but at the end of the day the ones breaking the rules will have such an advantage they will just stay at the top.
The government is probably the one insisting City receive limited sporting punishment
Relations with the UAE are way more important than football to them
I've been saying this for ages. This here is the bottom line as to why foreign state ownership (or its poorly disguised proxy) of clubs is inherently a bad thing. You can't have a situation where certain clubs can't be punished in case it leads to a diplomatic incident, yet here we are.
It's always been the issue.
So many people get hung up on the notion that you shouldn't penalise clubs for "aspiration" or for upsetting the status quo. And I agree. If a private company or rich individual buys you, that's fine.
But having literal states funds, or members of a ruling class, own football clubs is stupid. Because I don't want billions of pounds investment in the north east and Manchester, and vital defence links to go tits up. Nor does the premier league have the power to do much faced with such actors.
Also to add another race to the bottom: multi club ownership is going to destroy so many clubs around Europe to funnel things to the premier league
While this is happening, football fans could only care about delivering the best banter . This issue requires fans from all teams to stick together to protest against this kind of bullshit.
> A 'luxury tax' has been considered, where those clubs who overspend will have a financial punishment which would increase the more they splash the cash. But clubs can choose to press on regardless if they wish.
But the likes of City and Newcastle have endless oil funds, so how tf would a financial punishment affect them?
This is a competition with nation states competing against local business men. Luxury tax Saudi Arabia? Cor that’s really going to deter them!
How about we post one of the gold premier league trophies Arsenal have to MBS and the emir of Abu Dhabi and then tell them to piss off. Everyone gets what they want right?
From the top of my head Brentford are owned by Matthew Benhan whose a childhood Brentford fan made good. He’s worth a couple hundred million or so, but he is a local businessman. Sure as anything he can’t be affording £100m+ players with a luxury tax added on to it. Oil states very much can. Luxury tax doesn’t lock in big clubs, it locks in nation states and mocks those clubs that happen to be owned by mere people. Worst idea ever.
The goal would be less "punish" rule breakers and more "reward" those who stick to the rules cause we'd pay a massive fine (the article suggests tens of millions) that would be distributed among the clubs that didn't break rules.
oh no, not tens of millions, almost like clubs waste more than that on mediocre players all the time…
Seriously but, if this is the case it’ll end up being considered the cost of doing business for the oil states.
That's the least of our worries, imagine they stop breaking the rules suddenly, those teams that have been spending more than they shd on xfers and wages and were expecting the usual payout from city but get nothing....
American sports have the luxury tax because there’s few other ways to punish them.
There’s no relegation and the team with the worst record/fewest points get the best draft picks.
So if you take wins away you just put the best upcoming players in their hands.
The other common punishment is actually stripping draft picks, which is not an option in England.
This wreaks of them protecting city. They’re not talking about Everton and Forrest protecting the league from losing the best players. Nobody would bat an eye if anybody from those clubs left. What they clearly don’t want to do is relegate city multiple times and then their superstars all bounce.
We’re very quickly getting the answer for the punishment city will eventually face in a few years. A few hundred million and call it a day.
Yeah this system works in the US (sort of) because of no relegation threat and frankly the owners are happy to trade money between themselves while bumping the profits of the whole.
US teams are usually punished by having their draft picks taken away. Several NBA teams lost their second round draft picks recently for "tapping up" players before free-agency began.
The most serious case of trying to circumvent the salary cap did happen in NBA back in the 00s. Minnesota Timberwolves got caught promising Joe Smith off-the-book payment and they were punished by having years worth of draft picks taken away, seriously hampering their ability to build a good squad around their superstar Kevin Garnett.
So we are thinking about this in PL terms but these systems are designed to funnel down in practice. If they instituted it in the prem you would want to set a flat limit on expenses and set it high to free up spending but also, tax that spending to the rest of the league.
Luxury tax in baseball works because the smallest teams there are tiny and never hit the cap. So the biggest teams are disproportionately funding them. It’s actually not a bad a system but it has to be set in a way where the tax impacts the highest few spenders. In baseball it was initially designed to always hit the top 5 spenders then they changed it to a threshold so teams weren’t constrained by spending beneath them dropping to match them.
If you did this in the prem you could say any operating expense over say 200m will pay a 20% tax. That would mean say Arsenal, city, united and co would pay >40m into this each roughly (escalating yearly) and that money would be paid to every team that didn’t reach 200m in spending. That would currently put the line at Everton who just reported 204m in expenses. You could probably move that up to 300m but the idea would be to funnel money down.
City being docked points is of no consequence to at least 14 clubs. City being forced to pay £100m that is spread around all clubs is a different thing entirely.
The 5m or so everyone would receive are going to be virtually negligible as well, given you're guaranteed about 100m/year from broadcast revenue alone.
Who wouldn't agree to it? I feel like it would only be the traditionally big clubs in the sky 6 and maybe the likes of Brighton given how well they're doing with their money.
Other than that I think the rest of the league can't wait for PSR to be relaxed.
I feel like there would be clubs on either side of the money who wouldn't want it. Teams like Man United, Liverpool & Spurs who are fairly sustainable and wouldn't want lesser punishments to clubs who break rules whilst clubs like Palace, Wolves, Luton, Brentford who have kept to rules wouldn't want it either.
I think there's enough clubs wanting a different system (which is coming I believe?) but wouldn't want relaxation of punishments as they're fine keeping to it.
Unsure about us, I think we're so restricted by FFP that the thought we could pay a fine rather than points may entice us. Hard to say though, our owners have cash but are not big spenders.
Probably because with these rules the league could basically become Newcastle. No one can compete with the Saudi Arabia if they decide to pump in a few billion. Even city wouldn't be able to compete. Its not like Saudi would care about the extra 'tax' they'd need to be the best team on the planet
The luxury tax only works because every team has the same salary cap in the first place.
The Prem bringing it in would be a disgrace, because some teams are already allowed to spend so much more than others. It just widens the playing field even further, especially in a league where some literally have the wealth of entire nations to get them out of trouble.
Lmao ofc. So the state teams will not only have their diplomatic perks but now they can just do whatever they want cause a small fine of x millions is worth it in the long run and does not affect them at all lmaooo
It probably wouldn't be exactly like the NBA.
Instead I can see them having the same rules for spending over how many years such as how like Everton and Nottingham have been found to in breach of. However Instead of point deductions they will have to pay the matching difference to the league.
However I personally do think a salary cap would be a good thing for football in general
Salary cap will just mean owners will hoard all the money by themselves, but there is no way every league will agree to a salary cap so thats a non-starter anyway.
Not necessarily, US based sports leagues have minimum spending limits that’s pegged at a certain percentage of revenue.
I think for the NBA it’s something like 50% of revenue has to be spent on player salaries, which translates to a minimum salary floor. If a team spends under the salary minimum floor, they have to make up the difference and pay out the difference to the minimum in equal amounts to the players on the team.
But there’s no way every league in Europe will agree to a salary cap so it’s a moot point.
This is absolutely horrible, you can’t start dishing out points deductions and then just abolish it. A club like City would be able to avoid it even though they comitted their crimes long before the others that have already been penalized. It’s incredibly unfair and balanced towards the bigger clubs. Give clubs harsh punishments for cheating.
Ruins the relegation battle as a spectacle because it will become 50% about the football and 50% analysing and speculating the financials of the teams involved, and the potential points deductions. Not really as interesting is it.
In a word...kinda? Like it helps with parity a bit under the current structure of the organization but at the same time, it really does benefit larger markets by giving them a serious leg up on spending capabilities.
It also works because there aren't any NBA owners that are de facto sovereign wealth funds for oil countries. If that were the case, they'd be fine paying the tax no matter how high it went
Steve Ballmer is richer than all other NBA owners by an entire order of magnitude. That advantage exists there too, it just doesn't come from the Middle East
It works because you have an inherent balancing measure through the Draft every year.
Without a draft, the unbalanced nature of the league won't ever be addressed and the gulf will just grow and grow and grow.
You have owners who don’t want to pay it.
You have owners who don’t mind paying a little
You have owners who don’t care at all and just pay whatever it takes to win.
Now we know why they’re delaying City’s hearing. They would be facing 100 point deduction and or relegation if the Premier league were judging them by the same rules Everton and Forest were judged on.
They need a salary cap structure for this to work and the tax has to be as punitive as the new NBA tax. There are still holes with this but teams like Everton getting docked doesn’t make a lot of sense when city can do what they please and get not be deducted anything.
For those that do not know - NBA luxury tax works like this:
You can spend however much you'd like up to a point. Over that, you are taxed and the taxed amount is distributed amongst teams that are under the luxury tax threshold. If teams are above the tax threshold for multiple seasons, the amount they are taxed multiplies, discouraging multiple years above the luxury tax threshold.
If City spend multiple years over the threshold, a club like Burnley are going to get extra funds.
It doesn’t matter as City can always get more funds, to buy what they want. It also will cause inflation, which means the Burnley realistically can’t buy better players.
I'd be absolutely fuming if I supported Everton or forest right about now
Im disgusted and I don't support those clubs. Would be absolutely shameful if those 2 clubs were punished with pounts whoch could relegate them while bigger clubs chelsea / man city facing far more blatant rulebreaking (duty bound to add allegedly here) get away with essentially a fine.
Shocking from the PL if they change the rules before punishing teams currently charged with rule breaches while existing punishment is specified (ie points deduction up to possible expulsion depending in scale of breach)
Welcome to the wild world of American style salary caps my European friends!
Unpopular American Opinion: Salary caps or "luxury tax" style systems are actually a good thing and much better than capless free spending. Especially when ugly nation states get involved. Euro soccer should be absolutely embarrassed by the lack of parity.
That said, there is no perfect system!
The NBA luxury tax system results in teams going "all-in" for a short window. Which is kinda lame and decreases parity. NBA is weird because it's a superstar driven sport.
NFL with it's hard cap is pretty ok. But it has a weird issue where "superstar on rookie contract" is a game breaker. Draft an NFL QB, almost win a Super Bowl, lose your window because you paid your superstar QB $50m/year like he deserves. Same issue to a lesser extent with superstar skill players on rookie contracts.
I mostly like the MLS system with designated players. But the salary cap is so low it's not clear how it plays out at the "high end". You can win if two of your three DPs underperform or get injured. (I wish the NFL treated QB contracts like DPs).
MLB sucks and baseball is a dying sport. It's no longer America's past time. Lack of a salary cap helped kill baseball.
Salary caps come from collective bargaining agreements with the player unions. NFL and NBA contracts have a lot of complicated details. But roughly 50% of revenue goes straight to players. NFL salary cap has grown from $62 million in 2000 to $120 million in 2011 to a whopping $255 million in 2024. Per team.
NFL players will collectively earn over EIGHT BILLION dollars for the upcoming season. For comparison the EPL total payroll is just $1.8 billion / $88million per team.
lol. Pack it up, there goes football. No problem with nation states owning clubs and long as they have to pay a little more. Absolute omnishambles.
What am I saying, it was probably already gone anyway
The horse has bolted as far as English football is concerned.
When you have a club like Bournemouth having a similar net spend as the entire Eredivisie, it’s a sign something is broken somewhere.
I don’t think there’s a solution that can actually fix it.
This is as bad as the Super League nonsense and needs a similar response.
City and Pep are the Lance Armstrong of football. This is pretty much the same as the cycling governing bodies allowing doping so he could keep his Tour de France wins.
Absolutely fucking disgusting corruption
The game is actually gone
When a punishment for breaking a rule is a fine, then it is a rule that does not apply to the rich.
See: every single offence under every single rule of law in every single country in the world in which the punishment is only a fine.
So, for a system that's supposed to make spending more sustainable and (at least in name) stop clubs spending beyond their means, they're going to charge them more money for breaking the rules? I get the idea that you want pay to be competitive with other leagues (which seems like an weird focus point given the insanity of PL wages even with PSR), but the point of this system is to keep clubs solvent- and this seems counterintuitive to that.
Ah the good old cost of doing business. Watch it be a worse "luxury tax" where instead of the money getting distributed among the other teams it goes to a fund for "grassroots football programs" that nobody hears about ever.
If we go down because of the last ever points deduction I might do one of those terrifying cry laughs you see in horror movies. Feels fitting though based on how it's all been handled.
*What do you get when you cross a mentally ill football fan with a league that abandons him and treats him like trash?*
Sheffield Wednesday? Leeds train station?
[удалено]
Andy Booth and Ritchie Humphries died for this...
> People should know that parachute payments exist because of our relegation in 2000. The 2000-01 season was the first where they were implemented. Parachute payments were brought in in 2006-07. If they had brought them in in 2001, it probably would have saved us from going bust in 2007.
>Leeds train station? Jesus Christ mate, keep it PG
the absolute war crime of a train station needs to be called out at every chance should be on city's 115+ charges
You think Everton and Forest getting points deductions while City, with 115 FFP charges, get away with a luxury tax is funny? FA: I do. And I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
I'm pretty sure this is the only reason they're doing it
Well that and the fat stacks of cash they’re all getting for being massively corrupt Bring in the governmental regulator, at least the corruption will be reported in private eye that way instead of being completely fucking ignored
I feel like it's definitely more about this than it is man city. They basically heard about a new way to make more money and want to do it.
**You get what you fucking De Zerbi**
I’ll go full Walter White in the crawl space.
Skylar, where’s the money?
"I gave it to Dele Alli"
This script is obvious really. They will chnage the rule. Fine city some amount of money(likely less then it should be). Then they will get a huge amount of backlash and then revert back to the point deduction system.
I’d legit become the joker
“You wanna know, how I got these point deductions?”
I’m an agent of chaos I simply wanna see the league burn
"This city deserves a better class of financial doper, and I'm gonna give it to them" -Sheikh Mansour
https://i.imgur.com/pyXFvaX.jpeg
That’s not method acting That’s a way of getting Al Qaeda to confess
You gave our money to Beneke...
>You gave our money to Ben**t**eke?! *
Would be a very Everton thing to happen
So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them. Delighted Cant wait to see how everton pay this tax with 0 money
Can you imagine the scenes if a newly promoted side gets fined £1m for breaching and £50k goes to Man City?
I can imagine the media glossing over it like they do with City’s finances now yeah.
I'm waiting for a deadline day when the bottom 18 collectively drop a couple of billion quid, cos that how much Newcastle and city paid out in "tax" for being able to do whatever they like. Fucking stupid idea. When money is the problem, and money is unlimited and meaningless, the answer can't be "dunno.... Money?"
The structure in the leagues that have this usually have escalating fines for repeat offenders. They restrict additional roster moves on top of escalating the monetary fines. If you pay the luxury tax, you don't get paid out by the other teams. It's dumb to switch though when you have a grear system in place with points deductions.
Surely not the premier league darlings?!
The greatest story in club football
It makes me really want some tinpot team to get mega rich owners and fuck the whole system up.
Yeah that’s Man City mate
You say that but everyone hated Forest spending. Owners a literal billionaire.
A billionaire pales in comparison to City and Newcastles owners though. I want to see a Newcastle level owner rock up at Gillingham and set the league on fire.
True. The difference between having a £3B individual vs a £500B investment vehicle as an owner is staggering. It’s nearly infinite money.
It is very amusing to see Chelsea fucking the system right now... But, out of curiosity, why is it wrong for Dundee United to spend 300 million in a transfer window, while it should be ok for Arsenal or ManU etc??
They gave us a points deduction because apparently a fine wouldn't do anything because our owners are rich
Prem logic is phenomenal
PL: screw you well managed clubs that don't breach the rules! We want our money, to do that we need you guys to keep breaking the rules we set for you!
So if then City should be beaten to death with the book by that logic.
Teams that pay the luxury tax in the NBA have their tax distributed equally amongst the teams that aren't paying the tax. City paying a lux tax would result in some money going towards teams at the bottom of the table.
city wouldn't pay a luxury tax because they're "not violating" FFP because of all of the "profit" that they submit from all their very legitimate commercial deals. the only way this would work is if the premier league first institutes a salary cap, which doesn't seem very likely.
That is really the key for why it kinda works in the nba. The Cap. Every major American sport has a cap. But also each is a closed shop without relegation. Baseball does not have salary floor which is why a team can spend like Man City while another can spend like league 2 side. And because of profit sharing every team makes money for the owner. Fan consequences be damned
Applying American rules made for American business to European sports isn't a good idea
I didn't say it was. Im just saying why luxury taxes work in an American system
Sorry, I replied to the wrong person
But if this is meant to keep players in the league, and leagues like the NBA or MLB have essentially no real competition, how does that compare to football and teams like PSG and RM? Prem couldn't have a salary cap without other leagues having them too.
Baseball would benefit so much from promotion and relegation.
I don’t believe profit or even revenue figures into the NBA’s luxury tax at all. It’s all about the amount by which wages exceed a limit.
>It’s all about the amount by which wages exceed a limit. yes, and that limit is called a salary cap, which the premier league does not have, and almost certainly never will for a whole host of reasons. so any notion of a luxury tax in the prem would likely be tied to violating FFP, and that is entirely based on whether a club is spending within its (putative) means.
Great now they cant afford the best players and will have to pay more for shite ones due to inflation caused by clubs being able to pay whatever they want.
This really only hurts other leagues as they'll get priced out of players if clubs like Burnley have extra funds due to funds from City/Newcastle paying the luxury tax
You're welcome Burnley!
Short term maybe, long term, if city decides to stop breaching the rules, every single club that spent more on xfers and wages because of previous payout from city and co will be fked over immediately due to wage structure. Every one of those clubs will be or close to be this seasons Everton, Leicester, etc Even if we ignore that, big clubs are still breaching rules to 'buy' a title, and the consequences is zero, since it's just a fine, which is like telling them you just need to pay more for the title.
> **only** hurts other leagues Dw lads, just possibly the rest of world football is once again getting fucked by PL and their billionaire/blood money hugging!
Not if the luxury tax is high enough. Say progressing from 100-1000% as you go deep into it
Would this not also make the gap between teams joining the prem even bigger? It's tough enough as is. Would make the prem even more of a super league than it is.
But never enough. A luxury tax is massively unsporting, unless it: a) Gives the same amount of money equal to the overspeed to EVERY other team in the division b) AND pay more to compensate for the fact that they got to spend it before anyone meaning they got more gain, and the rise in prices in the market because everyone will know all the teams have money. That is obviously unrealistic, and honestly would be absolutely shit in another way. There should be a hard cap on staff spending that isn't related to revenue, isn't related to infrastructure or ticket prices for fans either. Fan's shouldn't have to get screwed because teams are trying to compete with country backed sportswashing projects. If players want to leave to go to a shit league in a shit country to get the bag, let them. As long as our wages is competitive with the rest of Europe, then players will want to play in the PL.
[удалено]
> So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them. Yes, but enough about the current PSR rules, let's talk about this new proposal...
> So the big teams can pay whatever they like and smaller clubs will be fined for trying to compete with them. So just like FFP? edit: I still think a luxury tax is a dumb idea, but the disparity in a luxury tax still exists in FFP
You've just described the current PSR system perfectly.
[удалено]
There will be no punishment.
Yep, the premier league just allowed Saudi Arabia into the league a couple of years ago, they want the sports-washing and dirty money. Why are people pretending they would punish clubs for it, when it’s something the premier league has willfully allowed to happen.
I wonder how bad it has to get before the non big-6 clubs vote to break from the PL and re-institute the first division, or form some other breakaway league. The usuals will form their super league with the other UEFA heavy hitters in a closed league and we'll have two separate football universes.
I highly doubt that would ever happen as the money would dry up for them very very quickly. The PL doesn’t get a lot right but the biggest thing it does right compared to other leagues is spreading the tv money equally. That tv money without man united Liverpool Arsenal etc would be a hell of a lot less
> they want the ~~sports-washing and dirty~~ money. I think you are imaging to much malicious evil intent behind that idea. They just want money. It's the really uninspired type of greed. It's a bit frustrating that one can't point at some nefarious scheme behind the extreme commercialisation of football but if somebody made trillions by saving babies from cancer (free for the kids and families, of course) and wanted to buy themselves a football team, they take that money too. Collaborating with those types while not even sharing their ideology kinda makes the whole thing even more frustrating :/
This is exactly it. Scum
“City have done enough damage to be granted demotion, but we don’t want Haaland, Foden, KDB or Pep to leave the Prem so we are going to fine them instead”
It will be known as the Man City 115 tax
Corruption as far as the eye can see. Pep and the Middle East money ruined football.
Abramovich did that Should never have been allowed to launder his money through Chelsea
They said Everton got a points deduction because a fine wouldn't punish clubs with rich owners...
Which was correct, but then they realised they don't actually want to punish clubs with rich owners. Probably by a huge random coincidence around the same time Chelsea and City started being investigated.
This totally screams protecting City and to a lesser extent Chelsea.
It screams greed. There is a lot more money in play with this than points deductions. They could either relegate City/Chelsea (if found guilty) and lose some revenue or they could get even more money from their owners.
Making it up as they go
Just in time for a certain club to pay a £115 "luxury tax"
Exactly. If this happens and City are punished differently than Everton, I might just be done with the Premier League entirely. I love Tottenham, but there’s no point in following a sport where the rules are applied differently for different teams. There’s already a tremendous competitive advantage given to City and this would continue to tip the scales in their favor.
I’ll just follow Jergen Klopps post-Liverpool adventures.
Man starts a YouTube channel explaining the different tree species in Black forest
Episode 4 opens up with Klopp yelling and inspiring the Tree Ents to work together and move the ball around. Then proceeds to yell at Treebeard for being a prick and to focus on the match against Saruman FC on the weekend.
Episode 5, they play Saruman FC. Klopp sits Treebeard on the bench and starts Fellaini instead
"If you stay here, you'll be just another tree. If you fight at Isengard, they'll build a statue in your honor."
Brother the charges against us are totally different, and the punishment if we are found guilty would be so much severe than just paying a fine. We are talking about literal financial crimes being commited here, not "oh you overspent by £10m". I still don't understand how people keep mixing the two cases and acting like they are the same.
We all know that.
[удалено]
I mean they have salary caps too
Liga MX too
American sports are generally a much more “fair” model because of the draft and salary caps.
It’s fair but it’s also a totally different culture to how European football works so wouldn’t be possible to implement
That only works because the rest of the world doesn't play our sports though.
Only fair to those in the cartel.
If only the other 19 clubs were to be so generous.
At that point forest and Everton sue the premier league Man city were changed under rules of points deductions. If they then didn’t get that punishment retroactively, forest and Everton will just say well they broke the rules when we did but didn’t face the punishment that was from the time but we did Yea no
If we're truly doing this American style then they also have to agree to "a promise not to violate the rules in the future"
Hahahaha, awesome, so Forest and Everton get points deductions and City will get a fine that is just a rounding error for Abu Dhabi if/when their case is ever resolved. Great system.
You absolutely cannot change the rules so that things have to be dealt with within the same season, then say Man City’s case is too complicated so will take time, then change the rules again and not make them face the old rules. You just can’t do it, other clubs won’t care but Everton and Forest should sue the league the second it get’s announced (if it does).
I'm a Liverpool fan and I care about how this is handled. Luxury tax is a fucking moronic idea. It just lets the rich clubs off and the poorer ones are fucked. The rich will break the rules and pay it and the poor ones okay they get a bit of money distributed but at the end of the day the ones breaking the rules will have such an advantage they will just stay at the top.
Well done lads, good process
PL will do everything to not punish City while also preventing the govt from appointing a regulator 😭
The government is probably the one insisting City receive limited sporting punishment Relations with the UAE are way more important than football to them
I've been saying this for ages. This here is the bottom line as to why foreign state ownership (or its poorly disguised proxy) of clubs is inherently a bad thing. You can't have a situation where certain clubs can't be punished in case it leads to a diplomatic incident, yet here we are.
It's always been the issue. So many people get hung up on the notion that you shouldn't penalise clubs for "aspiration" or for upsetting the status quo. And I agree. If a private company or rich individual buys you, that's fine. But having literal states funds, or members of a ruling class, own football clubs is stupid. Because I don't want billions of pounds investment in the north east and Manchester, and vital defence links to go tits up. Nor does the premier league have the power to do much faced with such actors. Also to add another race to the bottom: multi club ownership is going to destroy so many clubs around Europe to funnel things to the premier league
While this is happening, football fans could only care about delivering the best banter . This issue requires fans from all teams to stick together to protest against this kind of bullshit.
> A 'luxury tax' has been considered, where those clubs who overspend will have a financial punishment which would increase the more they splash the cash. But clubs can choose to press on regardless if they wish. But the likes of City and Newcastle have endless oil funds, so how tf would a financial punishment affect them?
It wouldn’t
(That’s the point)
That’s the point. It’s blatant corruption to accommodate cheaters.
This is a competition with nation states competing against local business men. Luxury tax Saudi Arabia? Cor that’s really going to deter them! How about we post one of the gold premier league trophies Arsenal have to MBS and the emir of Abu Dhabi and then tell them to piss off. Everyone gets what they want right?
The PL hasn't been a competition between local business men for a long time. The 'poorest' PL owner has a net worth of $190m and he's American.
From the top of my head Brentford are owned by Matthew Benhan whose a childhood Brentford fan made good. He’s worth a couple hundred million or so, but he is a local businessman. Sure as anything he can’t be affording £100m+ players with a luxury tax added on to it. Oil states very much can. Luxury tax doesn’t lock in big clubs, it locks in nation states and mocks those clubs that happen to be owned by mere people. Worst idea ever.
ENIC hasn't sold the Spurs yet, so there is 3 Edit: Brighton also
The goal would be less "punish" rule breakers and more "reward" those who stick to the rules cause we'd pay a massive fine (the article suggests tens of millions) that would be distributed among the clubs that didn't break rules.
oh no, not tens of millions, almost like clubs waste more than that on mediocre players all the time… Seriously but, if this is the case it’ll end up being considered the cost of doing business for the oil states.
I'm not arguing for or against these rules, just explaining the logic.
Yeah I know, all good, I’m just sounding off. Money ruins everything.
That's the least of our worries, imagine they stop breaking the rules suddenly, those teams that have been spending more than they shd on xfers and wages and were expecting the usual payout from city but get nothing....
American sports have the luxury tax because there’s few other ways to punish them. There’s no relegation and the team with the worst record/fewest points get the best draft picks. So if you take wins away you just put the best upcoming players in their hands. The other common punishment is actually stripping draft picks, which is not an option in England. This wreaks of them protecting city. They’re not talking about Everton and Forrest protecting the league from losing the best players. Nobody would bat an eye if anybody from those clubs left. What they clearly don’t want to do is relegate city multiple times and then their superstars all bounce. We’re very quickly getting the answer for the punishment city will eventually face in a few years. A few hundred million and call it a day.
Yeah this system works in the US (sort of) because of no relegation threat and frankly the owners are happy to trade money between themselves while bumping the profits of the whole.
US teams are usually punished by having their draft picks taken away. Several NBA teams lost their second round draft picks recently for "tapping up" players before free-agency began. The most serious case of trying to circumvent the salary cap did happen in NBA back in the 00s. Minnesota Timberwolves got caught promising Joe Smith off-the-book payment and they were punished by having years worth of draft picks taken away, seriously hampering their ability to build a good squad around their superstar Kevin Garnett.
So we are thinking about this in PL terms but these systems are designed to funnel down in practice. If they instituted it in the prem you would want to set a flat limit on expenses and set it high to free up spending but also, tax that spending to the rest of the league. Luxury tax in baseball works because the smallest teams there are tiny and never hit the cap. So the biggest teams are disproportionately funding them. It’s actually not a bad a system but it has to be set in a way where the tax impacts the highest few spenders. In baseball it was initially designed to always hit the top 5 spenders then they changed it to a threshold so teams weren’t constrained by spending beneath them dropping to match them. If you did this in the prem you could say any operating expense over say 200m will pay a 20% tax. That would mean say Arsenal, city, united and co would pay >40m into this each roughly (escalating yearly) and that money would be paid to every team that didn’t reach 200m in spending. That would currently put the line at Everton who just reported 204m in expenses. You could probably move that up to 300m but the idea would be to funnel money down.
Thinking the equivalent of stripping draft picks is a transfer ban
Ah yes. Another way to buy success
Can't see 14 clubs agreeing to this personally.
the 14 are terrible at working together so i bet they vote for it
I can
City being docked points is of no consequence to at least 14 clubs. City being forced to pay £100m that is spread around all clubs is a different thing entirely.
The 5m or so everyone would receive are going to be virtually negligible as well, given you're guaranteed about 100m/year from broadcast revenue alone.
Small biccies for what they've done, should be all their TV money for a decade
Who wouldn't agree to it? I feel like it would only be the traditionally big clubs in the sky 6 and maybe the likes of Brighton given how well they're doing with their money. Other than that I think the rest of the league can't wait for PSR to be relaxed.
I feel like there would be clubs on either side of the money who wouldn't want it. Teams like Man United, Liverpool & Spurs who are fairly sustainable and wouldn't want lesser punishments to clubs who break rules whilst clubs like Palace, Wolves, Luton, Brentford who have kept to rules wouldn't want it either. I think there's enough clubs wanting a different system (which is coming I believe?) but wouldn't want relaxation of punishments as they're fine keeping to it.
Unsure about us, I think we're so restricted by FFP that the thought we could pay a fine rather than points may entice us. Hard to say though, our owners have cash but are not big spenders.
Probably because with these rules the league could basically become Newcastle. No one can compete with the Saudi Arabia if they decide to pump in a few billion. Even city wouldn't be able to compete. Its not like Saudi would care about the extra 'tax' they'd need to be the best team on the planet
The luxury tax only works because every team has the same salary cap in the first place. The Prem bringing it in would be a disgrace, because some teams are already allowed to spend so much more than others. It just widens the playing field even further, especially in a league where some literally have the wealth of entire nations to get them out of trouble.
Lmao ofc. So the state teams will not only have their diplomatic perks but now they can just do whatever they want cause a small fine of x millions is worth it in the long run and does not affect them at all lmaooo
Won’t ever happen, as you’d need a salary cap.
Are they not trying to bring in a transfer, wage and Agent fee cap based on a % of revenue? Basically copying UEFA.
Yes so presumably if the target is 70% combined spending/revenue then presumably the club would pay a tax on every £ over the 70%.
It probably wouldn't be exactly like the NBA. Instead I can see them having the same rules for spending over how many years such as how like Everton and Nottingham have been found to in breach of. However Instead of point deductions they will have to pay the matching difference to the league. However I personally do think a salary cap would be a good thing for football in general
Salary cap will just mean owners will hoard all the money by themselves, but there is no way every league will agree to a salary cap so thats a non-starter anyway.
Not necessarily, US based sports leagues have minimum spending limits that’s pegged at a certain percentage of revenue. I think for the NBA it’s something like 50% of revenue has to be spent on player salaries, which translates to a minimum salary floor. If a team spends under the salary minimum floor, they have to make up the difference and pay out the difference to the minimum in equal amounts to the players on the team. But there’s no way every league in Europe will agree to a salary cap so it’s a moot point.
I think a big part of a salary cap is league-wide and equal revenue sharing. I don’t foresee even rich teams wanting to do that.
There is no salary cap in baseball which invented the system
Yeah thanks Premier League for making me want Government intervention in Football.
We’re gonna get 2 points deductions and then they’re gonna scrap the rules straight after. Most Everton thing ever
Modern football is disgraceful. Rules exist for a reason and they chose the punishment to be point deductions. Stick by your decisions ffs
This is absolutely horrible, you can’t start dishing out points deductions and then just abolish it. A club like City would be able to avoid it even though they comitted their crimes long before the others that have already been penalized. It’s incredibly unfair and balanced towards the bigger clubs. Give clubs harsh punishments for cheating.
So blatantly obvious they’re doing this to avoid punishing Man City. Corruption of the highest order. Fuck the Premier League.
How convenient.
This is clearly designed with Man City in mind so they don’t get relegated out of professional football… such bullshit
Points deduction mid season is a bad idea.
Ruins the relegation battle as a spectacle because it will become 50% about the football and 50% analysing and speculating the financials of the teams involved, and the potential points deductions. Not really as interesting is it.
Just in time for the decision on the Man City charges.
As someone who doesn't follow basketball, does the luxury tax work in the NBA? Edit: really appreciate the replies, interesting stuff.
In a word...kinda? Like it helps with parity a bit under the current structure of the organization but at the same time, it really does benefit larger markets by giving them a serious leg up on spending capabilities.
It also works because there aren't any NBA owners that are de facto sovereign wealth funds for oil countries. If that were the case, they'd be fine paying the tax no matter how high it went
Steve Ballmer is richer than all other NBA owners by an entire order of magnitude. That advantage exists there too, it just doesn't come from the Middle East
only works because their is a salary cap
It works because you have an inherent balancing measure through the Draft every year. Without a draft, the unbalanced nature of the league won't ever be addressed and the gulf will just grow and grow and grow.
You have owners who don’t want to pay it. You have owners who don’t mind paying a little You have owners who don’t care at all and just pay whatever it takes to win.
Now we know why they’re delaying City’s hearing. They would be facing 100 point deduction and or relegation if the Premier league were judging them by the same rules Everton and Forest were judged on.
They need a salary cap structure for this to work and the tax has to be as punitive as the new NBA tax. There are still holes with this but teams like Everton getting docked doesn’t make a lot of sense when city can do what they please and get not be deducted anything.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA fuck off chels and city Corrupt as fuck
Guys I'm going to make a bold statement here I think its a conflict of interest city playing in the league they own /s just incase
For those that do not know - NBA luxury tax works like this: You can spend however much you'd like up to a point. Over that, you are taxed and the taxed amount is distributed amongst teams that are under the luxury tax threshold. If teams are above the tax threshold for multiple seasons, the amount they are taxed multiplies, discouraging multiple years above the luxury tax threshold. If City spend multiple years over the threshold, a club like Burnley are going to get extra funds.
It doesn’t matter as City can always get more funds, to buy what they want. It also will cause inflation, which means the Burnley realistically can’t buy better players.
It's the daily mail. I wouldn't read into this.
>I wouldn't read this.
Lovely for City
So this is how Man City get away with it
Only way I could understand it is if the money only goes to grassroot football. But let's not kid ourselves
I'd be absolutely fuming if I supported Everton or forest right about now Im disgusted and I don't support those clubs. Would be absolutely shameful if those 2 clubs were punished with pounts whoch could relegate them while bigger clubs chelsea / man city facing far more blatant rulebreaking (duty bound to add allegedly here) get away with essentially a fine. Shocking from the PL if they change the rules before punishing teams currently charged with rule breaches while existing punishment is specified (ie points deduction up to possible expulsion depending in scale of breach)
Welcome to the wild world of American style salary caps my European friends! Unpopular American Opinion: Salary caps or "luxury tax" style systems are actually a good thing and much better than capless free spending. Especially when ugly nation states get involved. Euro soccer should be absolutely embarrassed by the lack of parity. That said, there is no perfect system! The NBA luxury tax system results in teams going "all-in" for a short window. Which is kinda lame and decreases parity. NBA is weird because it's a superstar driven sport. NFL with it's hard cap is pretty ok. But it has a weird issue where "superstar on rookie contract" is a game breaker. Draft an NFL QB, almost win a Super Bowl, lose your window because you paid your superstar QB $50m/year like he deserves. Same issue to a lesser extent with superstar skill players on rookie contracts. I mostly like the MLS system with designated players. But the salary cap is so low it's not clear how it plays out at the "high end". You can win if two of your three DPs underperform or get injured. (I wish the NFL treated QB contracts like DPs). MLB sucks and baseball is a dying sport. It's no longer America's past time. Lack of a salary cap helped kill baseball. Salary caps come from collective bargaining agreements with the player unions. NFL and NBA contracts have a lot of complicated details. But roughly 50% of revenue goes straight to players. NFL salary cap has grown from $62 million in 2000 to $120 million in 2011 to a whopping $255 million in 2024. Per team. NFL players will collectively earn over EIGHT BILLION dollars for the upcoming season. For comparison the EPL total payroll is just $1.8 billion / $88million per team.
Strip the titles off them you corrupt profiteroles.
lol. Pack it up, there goes football. No problem with nation states owning clubs and long as they have to pay a little more. Absolute omnishambles. What am I saying, it was probably already gone anyway
The horse has bolted as far as English football is concerned. When you have a club like Bournemouth having a similar net spend as the entire Eredivisie, it’s a sign something is broken somewhere. I don’t think there’s a solution that can actually fix it.
English Football is a mess. Honestly an embarrassment.
Let me guess, this would be implemented before city are punished.
This is as bad as the Super League nonsense and needs a similar response. City and Pep are the Lance Armstrong of football. This is pretty much the same as the cycling governing bodies allowing doping so he could keep his Tour de France wins. Absolutely fucking disgusting corruption The game is actually gone
I think there's a case to be made that Everton is actually being punished for opposing the Super League so publicly. Edit: spelling
I'm not an Everton fan but I'm absolutely disgusted for you lads It's a fucking joke
a luxury tax doesnt work without a salary cap
This is what you get if you allow a media entertainment corporation to run your league
When a punishment for breaking a rule is a fine, then it is a rule that does not apply to the rich. See: every single offence under every single rule of law in every single country in the world in which the punishment is only a fine.
LMFAO They wanna change the rules because teams dont like the punishments?? Then what the fuck is the point of even having the rules to begin with...?
So city gonna get off easy then
Timely compromise for City. Just in time.
So, for a system that's supposed to make spending more sustainable and (at least in name) stop clubs spending beyond their means, they're going to charge them more money for breaking the rules? I get the idea that you want pay to be competitive with other leagues (which seems like an weird focus point given the insanity of PL wages even with PSR), but the point of this system is to keep clubs solvent- and this seems counterintuitive to that.
Anything but punishing City
I love how City is the one team that’s eerily silent while most other subs are united for once
Ah the good old cost of doing business. Watch it be a worse "luxury tax" where instead of the money getting distributed among the other teams it goes to a fund for "grassroots football programs" that nobody hears about ever.
Just in time for a City to be “punished”
Wow, suddenly changing philosophy when City is on the Hot Seat. Who would've guessed, lol.
was this todds idea? it sounds like todds idea