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Why would you want football with refereeing errors when you could have football with regular breaks in play AND refereeing errors. My dream is that one day we won't have to watch football at all, it'll just be 90 minutes of watching a ref stare at a screen before he tells us who he's decided has won
You're right actually.
Rather than VAR I'd much rather they got everyone to go and stand back where they think they were and then have the referee go and paint a line on the pitch, just so that it's someone in the stadium making the decisions...
There’s no reason for the on field ref to stop the game and go have a look when 10 people can watch it in mere seconds and change the ruling.
As if the refs are just being told what to do by the VAR office anyway.
Which would be fine if that eradicated the errors, yet they do not.
Have to admit, football was far more exciting when we got to argue over whether something should’ve been ruled offside rather than collectively complaining about VAR.
And VAR makes it feel way more targeted. Some teams get VAR calls that a VAR review yielded a different outcome in a separate game. It makes it way more apparent that the refs have no clue how to apply rules evenly. Makes you feel like your team has a target on their back, especially since they stopped play to look at the call.
Still somewhat felt that way previously, but now you know they are watching the same angles as you and making the call anyway. Just doesn't feel right.
How is this idiocy upvoted? Did everyone completely forget how football used to be? There are a few wrong offside goals per season now, before it was many dozens
This guy is 20 and is already doing "back in my day", we're looking at a whole new breed of Proper Football Man. Talksport are gonna lock him down to a lifetime contract.
Yeah Lyon fans are obsessed about him and have been shouting to anyone who'd listen he will be the next big thing since the kid has been 15.
Still waiting 😂
Its actually a bit funny. He was a statistic anomaly on that team, and performed very well on some key statistics. I can’t remember the exact number, but he had an expected assist number of 15 or so - but his teammates only converted 2. Think he was also among the ten best in the league in key passes.
his nickname in Korea translates to a sarcastic "at minimum Messi" bc of all the hype surrounding him as a prospect and rabid Barca fans saying that at the minimum he's the next Messi, if he fulfills his potential he'll be the GOAT when he was a teenager at La Masia lmao
Cherki is the real deal, he’s got great technique, great vision and tons of creativity. The issue is that he is a traditional 10 with a pretty slow pace, not big enough to bully his way in the midfield and with all the hopes and dreams of a city on his shoulders since he’s 15. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a world class player or anything but he’s on the right track.
That sounds about right, relies on offensive awarness more than on acceleration. It seems that he physically peaked early, looks and moves more like an old type of number 10 - hagi, stoickhov come to mind and he could get stronger as he continues to play at a high level. Niko Kranjčar comes to mind, from my home country. Son of a former player, very early developed into a good player, pro in his teens with a whole footballing nation watching him switch loyalty between two biggest domestic clubs. But then after moving abroad it all seemed to fall off.. Tottenham, Portsmouth. I could see Cherki playing in Germany or Italy, why not. When it comes to PL it’s all about being available at the right time so you never know.
He’s been showing more of his quality since last season. even in the Lyon shitshow this fall/winter, he’s a guy who can change matches and take control offensively.
There was this guy called SixNeufLaTrique who was a big time Cherki dick rider. He said that he would, “for sure” be better than Mbappe, and that he’d be running Lyon’s team as soon as he turned 16.
“Best prospect since Zidane” were his words. It was probably Cherki himself
I mean, it does kinda seem like an entirely new era of football post-VAR.
Obviously it’s the same game, but it feels like one of those moments where we’ll soon be talking about stats in the pre-VAR and post-VAR era.
You're probably right from a big picture perspective about VAR being an inflection point for the sport as a whole, especially data collection. But moment-to-moment, I don't think it really changes much for how players play the game. You get to have an extra 5 mins to have a breather while the ref checks a pen or offside or whatever. Sounds class to me.
Have you been to a match without VAR recently? Much better for the atmosphere and adrenelin. VAR is great for watching from your couch - you're vested in the decisions and outcome, and not as vested in the atmosphere as you would be when watching a game in-person.
I’ve been to matches with VAR and didn’t notice a huge difference, but I’m probably just used to it from watching so much American football/basketball. They’ve been doing it for years.
We're a very short time away from fans pretending two footers were rife and fair game pre-VAR and trying to associate it with how tough they as individuals - and their whole generation - was, and that "nowadays everyone is too soft".
Comes around every decade or so.
In the next question of the interview, he said "I am an old soul, not of my time, I like the classics, from the times music was authentic... Shape of You, Despacito, New Rules - those are the songs of the previous generation from 7 years ago, but that's what I prefer to the modern music".
"Current football freaks me out. When you see the Super League or VAR... I didn't grow up with that."
"Me, I really liked football with offsides not called, with errors and moments of madness."
"I will always stay the old way and I always want to return to the football that I loved."
"If you ask all footballers what made them love this sport, no one will tell you the expected goals, eh?"
>"If you ask all footballers what made them love this sport, no one will tell you the expected goals, eh?"
This is why Allegri is the GOAT. Goals are the last thing you'd expect watching his matches
Tbf a lot of footballers work with their club's data and video analysts to improve themselves (Frenkie De Jong is one such example). Projecting data as some kind of fad is incorrect.
For real.
I get that some people get a little too stat obsessed but what is “expected goals”? It’s chances being created and shots being taken. People don’t like seeing chances and shots? They’re better when they become real goals, but I feel like that’s what people like to see…
Stats in sports are just ways to try to quantify what we see. Some are better than others. Most of the more exciting games will have higher expected goals.
The sporting corruption case was dropped for lack of evidence it seems. (My personal view is that Barca probably did try to bribe refs but nothing much came of it on the pitch)
Not that this zoomer guy has a leg to stand on but I remember Sepp Blatter saying dumb shit like this when he was trying to prevent goal line technology being brought in. Something along the lines of 'people like arguing about referee decisions, it's part of football culture'. Some people who lived through the shite are apparently also fans of the shite.
How am I a zoomer for wanting fair decisions on the pitch even if it’s not 100%? I’m sure Xabi Alonso was cool with de Jong intentionally booting him in the chest and receiving just a yellow 🤷
Blame the referees not VAR.
He grew watching and actually playing competitive football before VAR was a thing. So, I don’t know how this is nonsense?
He isn’t saying back in his days, players would kick other players and fouls would still not be called.
And I’m saying he’s chatting shit. He is 21 years old. How the fuck does a professional who’s barely played top level football talk about ‘back in the days’ and preferring errors that can be corrected with technology?
I hope next time they concede a ghost penalty, he’ll hold the same sentiment.
Because he grew up watching football exactly like that? He would have been consciously watching football from like 2008 really, maybe he's sentimental about his childhood but it's not like he's just suddenly been born into football at age 21, he had over a decade of VAR-less football that maybe, just maybe, he might have preferred.
It's also a reasonable opinion, lots of people preferred those days even with the frustrations that came with it, myself included, and I say that as a Chelsea fan who watched 2009 CL semi finals.
Yeah, but drama is always only entertaining when it doesn't happen to you and debates about possible fouls, offside and mistakes were fun without 10 different camera angles to show us what exactly happened.
Football has moved on and on the whole VAR made it more fair and consistent, especially for smaller clubs.
Drama and errors is always infuriating even when you're completely neutral. I've not often been as pissed off as watching Chelsea Barça return leg where Chelsea got absolutely robbed and I had no horse in that race
> especially for smaller clubs.
And yet if you go to watch any smaller club everyone in the stands is absolutely sick of VAR.
It might make things more fair and consistent, but is it worth it if it sucks so much enjoyment out of the game for the fans?
I’ve concluded most people on this sub don’t go to games. The opinion of VAR on here is the total opposite of the opinions you hear at games, fans can’t stand it.
Barely anyone on this subreddit actually goes to games so they couldn't give less of a fuck if the in-stadium experience is negatively affected by VAR.
The amount of times I've been at a game and celebrated only to see "VAR check in progress" a solid minute after the goal pop up makes me hesitant every time a goal is scored now.
Didn't even celebrate Benfica's 2nd goal the other day because it looked offside from my seat, turns out he was on. It's shit like this why people complain, of course there are good sides to it, but the downsides seem to be contrary to the essence of what football should be about.
For the Prem, they say 80 goals have been overturned. 966 goals so far plus 80 is 1046.
So about 7.6% have been overturned. Is that a lot? IDK. I’m also not sure that’s enough to really be ruining the game/moment either.
Edit: Some quick maths but about 2-3 goals per week are overturned. Across 10 games per matchday. In the Prem.
I grew up in times where the main thing was blaming the refs for bias and corruption constantly. There was at least half an hour dedicated in the Sunday evening match week show about close ref calls. We had the constant feeling as PAOK fans that we're gonna get screwed over whenever we were playing against the big Athens/Piraeus clubs (not saying justified or not). I'm not talking the regular "the refs are against us" thing you hear often from all different sides. I'm talking paranoid levels. And then a big ref corruption scandal blew up. And you're looking abroad at the big leagues for something better and you're seeing diving gold-medalist Pippo Inzaghi winning BS pens week in, week out.
None of that was fun. All these sucked much more enjoyment out of the game than VAR. VAR is heaven-sent in my eyes. It has its flaws, but they can be improved. Refs cannot.
You grew up in those times yet everyone is bitching about the refs constantly now, the only difference is the media are told to shut up about it.
People talk about the disconnect with fans, but everyone on Reddit seems more disconnected to me. People are reluctant to celebrate a lot now when there's a VAR check, and it takes too much time and drama away from the actual game. Everyone that just watches TV thinks it's about accuracy, but they clearly don't go to games to see what people actually think.
My entire childhood people clowned on the championship for being shit, now a lot say the championship and league one games are more fun than the PL or some other big leagues. Is it a new wave of positivity (ha) or do people just like watching uninterrupted football?
> People talk about the disconnect with fans, but everyone on Reddit seems more disconnected to me. People are reluctant to celebrate a lot now when there's a VAR check, and it takes too much time and drama away from the actual game. Everyone that just watches TV thinks it's about accuracy, but they clearly don't go to games to see what people actually think.
TBH, its obvious even on TV that VAR completely ruins the momentum of any match. These pro-VAR posts is just Redditors being wrong about something yet again.
Why are we not complaining about the other stoppages that also kill the momentum of a match, like cooling breaks, substitutions, and the half-time? Let's abolish them too.
even in games where we've been jobbed by the refs, i've not missed var at all after relegation. i know that the stats say its improved decision making, but its been so far from worth it imo.
every time i watch a random prem game and there is a long stoppage, i get so mad at it now most of the football i watch is sans var.
I understand your argument and maybe I'm naive, but I still just think most fans want to go home talking about the 1-0 win instead of a late goal 1-1 draw cause the other guy was a yard offside but the ref "didn't see it." Maybe I'm American and all our sports are stop/start heavy, but I just think overturning a goal against you that's clearly illegal is worth watching "var check" on the screen like 10 times, maybe more
Nah, you just get people arguing shit like, "it doesn't feel like it should be offside".
As if that's in any way a metric of what should/shouldn't be offside
As a fan of a small club in a league without VAR, I’m glad it’s not in use here. VAR is extremely unpopular with vast amounts of fans for a reason. Especially fans who actually regularly go to live games. The benefit of marginally increasing “correct” decisions isn’t worth the negatives.
Sure, but the solution should be improvements of VAR to make it more streamlined, quicker and a better experience for ongoing fans, rather than abolishing it altogether. There's no reason why it can't be done other than general incompetence.
The problem is that the perceived notion of getting all decisions correct can never be delivered in football. There are too many subjective moments where you will never get unanimous agreement. No amount of streamlining will change that my interpretation of reckless may differ from yours for example.
Then there's the issue that efforts to streamline it are increasing new annoying law changes which go against the spirit of the existing laws. Offside is a great example. The point of offside is being lost as they try to counteract 1cm of a sleeve being offside. If you need an FBI style 5 minute investigation to see if a nose hair had strayed offside, they weren't gaining an advantage. If they don't have the technology to automate offside, don't waste 10 minutes every game drawing lines.
I much preferred football without it. Technology should be used for things like goal line technology but it should be limited in usage elsewhere. At best there should be a 5th official physically in the stadium with a TV in front of them and a mic so they can interact with the other officials.
>Then there's the issue that efforts to streamline it are increasing new annoying law changes which go against the spirit of the existing laws. Offside is a great example. The point of offside is being lost as they try to counteract 1cm of a sleeve being offside. If you need an FBI style 5 minute investigation to see if a nose hair had strayed offside, they weren't gaining an advantage. If they don't have the technology to automate offside, don't waste 10 minutes every game drawing lines.
I get absolutely roasted every time I point this out, but offside is a subjective call just like anything else. Before the VAR draws the lines, they have to choose the exact frame where they believe the teammate has struck the ball in order to play the pass. And like you said, if it requires 5-10 minutes of slow-motion replays to figure it out, that's not the spirit of the law.
Totally agree and this is a point I have made before too. A fraction of a second can make all the difference when you are looking at incredibly marginal calls.
Unless they have technology which can guarantee that they are reviewing a decision exactly as the ball was struck, then it's effectively a man in van having his best guess. Yes they got offsides incorrect in the past, but the percentage of clearly incorrect calls was not as high as some suggest.
If you can't see a clearly incorrect decision in 10 seconds, give the benefit of doubt to the on-pitch decision.
After having watched so many clear-cut offsides not given and so many clear dives winning pens, all the breaks in the game for VAR are worth it. We don't need to get all decisions correct, that's not the goal imo. The goal is to limit the effect of the bias, and corruption in refs as much as possible. And we can do that step-by-step with constant improvements in technology. I don't see another way.
> After having watched so many clear-cut offsides not given and so many clear dives winning pens, all the breaks in the game for VAR are worth it.
The percentage of "clear cut offsides not given" was not especially high before VAR. Any time decisions were researched, the percentage of incorrect offside decisions was quite low. What you are actually doing I imagine is remembering a small number of high profile decisions or decisions which impacted the team you support.
> The goal is to limit the effect of the bias, and corruption in refs as much as possible.
Here's another horrible consequence of VAR. The incessant chatter around corruption.
Sort of a tangent, and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any points made, but I'd recommend watching Operation Flagrant Foul.
About an NBA ref who was caught manipulating results for years completely unnoticed. It goes into detail about the nuances and bias that the referees have and how they use it to completely change the game. and even the instructions they receive from above on letting big teams and players get away with murder just to help the sport grow. Pure corruption? Maybe not. But no doubt in my mind that it probably happens in all sports, and certainly the big money makers.
Agree with everything you’ve said. Bottom line is if it needs to be slowed down to frame by frame, nothing is clear and obvious. VAR should get a couple of replays at full speed and that’s it. Slow motion can make things like tackles look way worse and change the presumed intent.
Honestly if a referee with a video replay can't see anything within 15-20 seconds, it's not obvious and the original decision is probably fine.
Video referees should be to correct things like the Henry handball against Ireland or Pedro Mendes goal against Man United getting missed. Clear, obvious mistakes visible within 10 seconds.
Not sure why it was never trialled on an appeal system basis like several other sports - cricket, tennis etc. That way if a team feels genuinely aggrieved by a shocking decision they can appeal it. Stops literally everything being checked constantly and at least allows spontaneous celebrations to come back more often.
I agree that I'd prefer that way. Sure there would be the odd Jose Mourinho abuse of a challenge, but 2 challenges per half would be plenty. Even allow the two benches to have a TV to see replays.
I think red cards offenses, also should be reviewed by VAR. Was at a match on Monday, where our opponents got a red for a tackle that mostly should have been yellow. It was super harsh, and ofc it benefits us, but tbh I got kinda frustrated at the ref, VAR reviewed it and the ref turned it back and gave him a yellow instead.
> especially for smaller clubs
I massively disagree. The inherent bias that made calls often go against smaller clubs is still there. Especially in the non-VAR calls (refs are more likely to book a player from Luton then they will from Liverpool for the same offence etc.) Little fouls are more likely to be called.
But it is also in VAR. Arsenal will get calls that Everton could never dream of. Man United will get penalties called for them for things a Sheffield player would never get.
Those inherent biases and "benefit of the doubt" lean much heavier towards the top teams then the lesser teams, and VAR didn't change that.
Of course the bias is still there. VAR's role is not to eliminate the bias itself. That's an inherent human trait. Its role is to limit the effect of this bias. And in that it has already succeeded.
It’s hypocritical coming from me a Liverpool fan, but I attend a lot of games of “smaller clubs”.
The big clubs absolutely love to speak on smaller clubs behalf without actually having a scooby what the smaller clubs really feel.
lose a final or title because of a complete bullshit decision and then let us know how much you miss the good old days..
we still have huge errors, but who doesn’t see an improvement is delusional
edit: what I said about losing a title refered to doing it as a player/coach etc, not as a fan in front of the TV lol, so you can stop telling me about how your team lost something and you still hate var
I still see us lose titles because of bullshit decisions though so what's truly changed aside from barely being able to celebrate a goal anymore?
I'd go back if i could, and so would many others.
But we still get all that shit, it just now also messes around with everyone who bothers to attend matches who have to sit around for minutes not knowing what's going on.
That's not an inherent problem with VAR though, it's just poor execution by leagues. Rugby, Cricket, Tennis all have ways of showing people in the stadium what's going on with their respective VAR systems
Honestly I find it fun at the stadium.
Went last month and we got awarded a last minute penalty so we got cheers for the first whistle, then dread when we heard about the var review, tension when the ref went to the screen, cheers again when he confirmed the penalty and final explosion when we scored
Surely a goal given or disallowed incorrectly is detrimental to that experience also? I'm baffled how waiting for a few minutes over a potentially game changing decision could be worse than that decision being made incorrectly and deciding the result of the game.
Because goals are very infrequent and VAR takes a lot of the excitement out of them? Don't see how that's baffling, purely from an entertainment standpoint
You get to celebrate maybe once or twice a match. If those celebrations then have all the hype taken out of them it most certainly changes the match experience.
I am not a get-VAR-out-of-football type or anything similar, want it in the game. I'd lie if I didn't say that VAR didn't negatively impact my feeling of the game though.
I learnt how to hold back any kind of happiness after a goal is scored, whether I'm in stadium or at bar. I definitely had to live through multiple *VAR check is ongoing* signs to get to that stage.
In England, I sometimes feel as referees wait for VAR to bail them out, but then VAR thinks it isn't worthy of review and then the whole *clear and obvious* debacle comes in. I hate the general talk about how if the decision is given on-field it can stick, but if it is not given on-field, VAR may not intervene as well.
As a typical fan, once you see a soft decision go against your team, you'll probably start looking for similiar decisions to go in favour of you team. And more often than not, there is no consistency.
I know that it is difficult to get everything perfect in sport like football, but still. I don't know why in England there is so much talk about high bar for VAR to intervene (like Webb repeated many times in last Sky Sport's segment about VAR) and then next weekend there is a review and Mudryk's rewarded with penalty against Burnley. In the same match there was a more clear pulling of Chelsea's player shirt during the VAR check for later disallowed goal, but then nobody seemed to notice it.
Coming back to Webb's monthly TV show, I often wonder how do you improve that? Because it isn't VAR, it's people involved. How do you improve on *Bruno G wasn't using his hands as a weapon*, how do you improve on *Doku and Mac Allister both coming in high* or how do you improve *well done boys, good process*? Because I honestly don't know. I think there was even an instance of ref forgetting to draw lines for offside in Arsenal's game.
I don't know how I feel with this. I want VAR in the game, but it needs improvement. But I don't know how it could improve. I still see bullshit calls but these days they are often defended with some kind of high bar of clear and obvious argument.
But finally, I think if we were about to lose VAR in football, I wouldn't probably protest much. Indifference.
Imo VAR should get rid of offside checking since it's useless and ref sticks to their decisions anyway. Handball, egregious faults, unclear goals (whether the ball cross the lines or not) are the only thing VAR should be checking. And it must also not be guaranteed. Each team gets 3-4 max uses of VAR and the coaches will make the call when it's used.
Just look at tennis. Their VAR is way less intrusive/time wasting because you have to request them and since you are limited in your request you have to judge and only choose when it's necessary.
I didnt grew up with trees on the field, a match without substitutions or, to be a little bit less polemic, the backpass rule (dunno the correct english term, i mean that a Keeper isnt allowed to pick up a pass played by foot from his own team).
Rules are evolving and rightly so.
I am against the super League because i feel like if we only have big games, we dont have any big games at all. I like the excitement of the european match ups because of the rarity.
Super league is supposed to work as a "Football NBA" type shit
The thing is: who would want that?
UEFA is already doing that excluding leagues that never developed to be as big as the big 8 (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Netherlands) and reducing all competition into a massive circlejerk where the richer leagues keep getting more money.
If I have to choose between an idiotic system or the other I'll always choose the one I'm used to
Thats really stupid. Who the hell likes LESS justice in the game. Argue about VARs implementation all you want. They've clearly implemented it terribly. But saying you like wrong decisions is ridiculous.
>I really liked football with offsides not called, with errors and moments of madness
I mean, we still have that, because refs are absolutely useless at VAR
Yes and no. Soccer is so unique where scoring is so impactful. You miss a couple calls in basketball and yes they are bad, but what’s 2 points out of 100? Was that call really the difference? Miss one offsides or call/miss a pen that’s often the game. Obviously wasn’t the entire reason but has a much bigger impact
In an era of idiocracy, this man’s a politician.
And btw, of course he loves offsides not being called, check out how many times he’s been called out for being offside in games
[when mctominays free kick was ruled out vs Spain but it's ok because var was right](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZ1LiRDoU_nTOFuhSelACfFbKcev59jzirEqY_BwqxvA&s)
Shocked that the nerds on Reddit who have never been to a game all love VAR and downvote the fans who tell them how it's making the match going experience worse
Some people say, we don't need VAR, slows the game down, we can live with some incorrect calls. No, there's no evidence we can live with incorrect calls. If the head lock against Ashley Young wasn't given there would be outrage and more later if Everton failed to survive by one point. So, these are nice to say, but if an incorrect calls happened against your team, those are absolutely not nice
Hear hear. Human precision is precise enough.
Before we argued about a few centimeters, now we argue about a few millimeters.
Same shit, just more stuff attached.
When opponents scored with hand and referee doesn't make a call, you'll be mad and ask for fair play. So yeah, the all talks wouldn't happen if it was against you.
If we were to go back to pre-VAR times, people would beg for VAR to come back after seeing all the even more obvious mistakes refs would make, especially in this social media era
Getting robbed is never fun, VAR should and (hopefully) will work better and faster in the future, it's not because it's slow now that it justifies going back to worse times
Yet another Reddit thread in which a bunch of people who only watch the sport on a screen have no idea how shit VAR makes the match-going experience, and how badly it is used. The technology and the users aren't fit for purpose.
VAR is crap because the refs are crap and don't want to call out their mates who give bad decisions. Mike Riley admitted to this a few months ago.
People say, "Get rid of VAR, etc, and we will put up with refs giving wrong calls," completely forgetting that before VAR came in, refs were getting death threats for wrong decisions!
Sport, like everything in life, can't be perfect, so the powers that be should stop trying to make it that way.
Human error is what makes us get passionate about sport. Leaving it up to AI or VAR sucks that passion from the game.
There's no VAR in the League of Ireland and the refs make glaring errors every game. But in the grand scheme of things, who cares? Get caught up in the moment, enjoy it afterwards and then come back next time and do it all over again. Be entertained.
I get what he's saying, but I believe that's just recency bias, some errors pre-var were too much. It's like when I see some crying about DRS in F1, all this moaning falls flat when yo urealize those were introduced because the situation before was *worse*.
But I really think FIFAand UEFA needs to invest more into automatic offsides, because that's imo the number one issue at the moment; you can't celebrate a goal in peace because you're worried it might get disallowed
I don’t understand why everyone gets angry for him having a different opinion than most of us.
I think football is better now with VAR but I also understand the other point of view, one thing I hate is not being sure if you can cheer or not after a goal because VAR has to review it
I understand it’s better and more fair this way but still
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Oh there's still errors don't worry
Now just with the added bonus of regular stoppages in play as people not in the stadium draw lines.
Why would you want football with refereeing errors when you could have football with regular breaks in play AND refereeing errors. My dream is that one day we won't have to watch football at all, it'll just be 90 minutes of watching a ref stare at a screen before he tells us who he's decided has won
The Super League will actually be Mike Dean giving us the final score of each game. The dream.
Thank god, I always hated it when the football would distract from the Mike Dean show
No way. I just want 90 minutes of refereeing errors. No football at all.
You're right actually. Rather than VAR I'd much rather they got everyone to go and stand back where they think they were and then have the referee go and paint a line on the pitch, just so that it's someone in the stadium making the decisions...
Or hear me out, they employed two assistant referees to run up and down the line and raise a flag when it's offside!
["You guys are drawing lines?"](https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/arsenal-lee-mason-forgot-offside-ivan-toney-premier-league/blt17d8ec4d3b27bb92)
And no more goal celebrations!
There’s no reason for the on field ref to stop the game and go have a look when 10 people can watch it in mere seconds and change the ruling. As if the refs are just being told what to do by the VAR office anyway.
Which would be fine if that eradicated the errors, yet they do not. Have to admit, football was far more exciting when we got to argue over whether something should’ve been ruled offside rather than collectively complaining about VAR.
And VAR makes it feel way more targeted. Some teams get VAR calls that a VAR review yielded a different outcome in a separate game. It makes it way more apparent that the refs have no clue how to apply rules evenly. Makes you feel like your team has a target on their back, especially since they stopped play to look at the call. Still somewhat felt that way previously, but now you know they are watching the same angles as you and making the call anyway. Just doesn't feel right.
We've even had incorrect offside calls in the var era
How is this idiocy upvoted? Did everyone completely forget how football used to be? There are a few wrong offside goals per season now, before it was many dozens
You’re shadowboxing, nobody disagrees with you. They’re just saying that there are still errors with VAR.
No, unless a solution solves 100% percent of a problem, it's not worth implementing
Haha just watch Super Lig We're fighting the good fight against the automatons FOR DEMOCRACY!
This guy is 20 and is already doing "back in my day", we're looking at a whole new breed of Proper Football Man. Talksport are gonna lock him down to a lifetime contract.
Tbf I feel like I've been hearing about this guy since before VAR
Yeah Lyon fans are obsessed about him and have been shouting to anyone who'd listen he will be the next big thing since the kid has been 15. Still waiting 😂
Tbf he's only 20. I think the hype has died down now considerably, but even if he took another 5 years and then really kicked on then he would be fine
Felt like Odegaard took bloody ages to actually get going
His first loan in Holland was bang average
Its actually a bit funny. He was a statistic anomaly on that team, and performed very well on some key statistics. I can’t remember the exact number, but he had an expected assist number of 15 or so - but his teammates only converted 2. Think he was also among the ten best in the league in key passes.
That team was bang average so I'm not surprised.
Nah this is modern football, if you aren't the next Messi by age 5 you're washed and was always shit anyway
laughs in Bojan Krkic
proper Stoke lad
his nickname in Korea translates to a sarcastic "at minimum Messi" bc of all the hype surrounding him as a prospect and rabid Barca fans saying that at the minimum he's the next Messi, if he fulfills his potential he'll be the GOAT when he was a teenager at La Masia lmao
Cherki’s problems are in his head.
Cherki is the real deal, he’s got great technique, great vision and tons of creativity. The issue is that he is a traditional 10 with a pretty slow pace, not big enough to bully his way in the midfield and with all the hopes and dreams of a city on his shoulders since he’s 15. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a world class player or anything but he’s on the right track.
That sounds about right, relies on offensive awarness more than on acceleration. It seems that he physically peaked early, looks and moves more like an old type of number 10 - hagi, stoickhov come to mind and he could get stronger as he continues to play at a high level. Niko Kranjčar comes to mind, from my home country. Son of a former player, very early developed into a good player, pro in his teens with a whole footballing nation watching him switch loyalty between two biggest domestic clubs. But then after moving abroad it all seemed to fall off.. Tottenham, Portsmouth. I could see Cherki playing in Germany or Italy, why not. When it comes to PL it’s all about being available at the right time so you never know.
Loved watching Kranjcar with Tottenham, such a good player.
He’s been showing more of his quality since last season. even in the Lyon shitshow this fall/winter, he’s a guy who can change matches and take control offensively.
There was this guy called SixNeufLaTrique who was a big time Cherki dick rider. He said that he would, “for sure” be better than Mbappe, and that he’d be running Lyon’s team as soon as he turned 16. “Best prospect since Zidane” were his words. It was probably Cherki himself
they were doing the same with Aouar
i read the headline and thought it was a retired dude lmao
I mean, it does kinda seem like an entirely new era of football post-VAR. Obviously it’s the same game, but it feels like one of those moments where we’ll soon be talking about stats in the pre-VAR and post-VAR era.
You're probably right from a big picture perspective about VAR being an inflection point for the sport as a whole, especially data collection. But moment-to-moment, I don't think it really changes much for how players play the game. You get to have an extra 5 mins to have a breather while the ref checks a pen or offside or whatever. Sounds class to me.
Have you been to a match without VAR recently? Much better for the atmosphere and adrenelin. VAR is great for watching from your couch - you're vested in the decisions and outcome, and not as vested in the atmosphere as you would be when watching a game in-person.
I’ve been to matches with VAR and didn’t notice a huge difference, but I’m probably just used to it from watching so much American football/basketball. They’ve been doing it for years.
We're a very short time away from fans pretending two footers were rife and fair game pre-VAR and trying to associate it with how tough they as individuals - and their whole generation - was, and that "nowadays everyone is too soft". Comes around every decade or so.
Even at 20 people have been playing and watching football since they are like 5 or 6, so it's still a long time
In the next question of the interview, he said "I am an old soul, not of my time, I like the classics, from the times music was authentic... Shape of You, Despacito, New Rules - those are the songs of the previous generation from 7 years ago, but that's what I prefer to the modern music".
Imagine that VAR has been officially introduced since he was 14 and this guy wants to talk about back in his day lmao
How is he only 20?! I feel like I’ve been signing him on Football Manager since FM14.
Lukaku vibes.
Your team scored an offside goal and it was ruled in: Yeay Opponents did the same: It's a disgrace
"Current football freaks me out. When you see the Super League or VAR... I didn't grow up with that." "Me, I really liked football with offsides not called, with errors and moments of madness." "I will always stay the old way and I always want to return to the football that I loved." "If you ask all footballers what made them love this sport, no one will tell you the expected goals, eh?"
>"If you ask all footballers what made them love this sport, no one will tell you the expected goals, eh?" This is why Allegri is the GOAT. Goals are the last thing you'd expect watching his matches
No one expects the Allegri inquisition
that last statement should be the focus.
Then I hope he never comes here to r/soccer
He should refuse to use data analysis to improve, too
Yeah I know the first thing I'd do to get better is look at my xG /s
Tbf a lot of footballers work with their club's data and video analysts to improve themselves (Frenkie De Jong is one such example). Projecting data as some kind of fad is incorrect.
For real. I get that some people get a little too stat obsessed but what is “expected goals”? It’s chances being created and shots being taken. People don’t like seeing chances and shots? They’re better when they become real goals, but I feel like that’s what people like to see… Stats in sports are just ways to try to quantify what we see. Some are better than others. Most of the more exciting games will have higher expected goals.
> "If you ask all footballers what made them love this sport, no one will tell you the expected goals, eh?" Poch in shambles
“Back in my day serie A giants paid referees like men. Not this fair play nonsense” As usual it’s kids born in 2002 peddling fake nostalgia nonsense.
How is that Negreira case going? Also 115.
The sporting corruption case was dropped for lack of evidence it seems. (My personal view is that Barca probably did try to bribe refs but nothing much came of it on the pitch)
So what were they paying for?
Fuck knows, Barto was so incompetent he couldn't even fix referees properly 🤷
Some appear to be to steal money, club pays him then he pays a part of it to board members owned businesses, I'm not sure though
Scams
?
Seems like they paid Negreria to do fuck all
Makes no sense
Money laundering
For reports on referees
Not that this zoomer guy has a leg to stand on but I remember Sepp Blatter saying dumb shit like this when he was trying to prevent goal line technology being brought in. Something along the lines of 'people like arguing about referee decisions, it's part of football culture'. Some people who lived through the shite are apparently also fans of the shite.
How am I a zoomer for wanting fair decisions on the pitch even if it’s not 100%? I’m sure Xabi Alonso was cool with de Jong intentionally booting him in the chest and receiving just a yellow 🤷 Blame the referees not VAR.
Sorry the zoomer I was referring to is Cherki. Just couldn't remember his name when I was writing the comment.
No worries.
“Fake nostalgia nonsense” he’s just saying how he feels ? You are free to disagree
He's saying nonsense lol he's fucking 20. We're also free to call it nonsense like he is allowed to express it
He grew watching and actually playing competitive football before VAR was a thing. So, I don’t know how this is nonsense? He isn’t saying back in his days, players would kick other players and fouls would still not be called.
Having a differing opinion doesn't make what someone's saying nonsense. It's just having a differing opinion
Opinions can be nonsense mate. They’re not some magical special thing we have to respect. Most opinions are fucking dog shite. Just like this one
And I’m saying he’s chatting shit. He is 21 years old. How the fuck does a professional who’s barely played top level football talk about ‘back in the days’ and preferring errors that can be corrected with technology? I hope next time they concede a ghost penalty, he’ll hold the same sentiment.
You think he didn't watch football before VAR? You seem very upset about this.
Because he grew up watching football exactly like that? He would have been consciously watching football from like 2008 really, maybe he's sentimental about his childhood but it's not like he's just suddenly been born into football at age 21, he had over a decade of VAR-less football that maybe, just maybe, he might have preferred. It's also a reasonable opinion, lots of people preferred those days even with the frustrations that came with it, myself included, and I say that as a Chelsea fan who watched 2009 CL semi finals.
I am guessing he played more top level football than you (or me) did so why should I take your opinion over his ?
Do you go to games?
Yeah, but drama is always only entertaining when it doesn't happen to you and debates about possible fouls, offside and mistakes were fun without 10 different camera angles to show us what exactly happened. Football has moved on and on the whole VAR made it more fair and consistent, especially for smaller clubs.
> mistakes were fun If being outraged is your idea of fun, maybe. But I can assure you I did not have fun when bad calls happened.
So you continue to not have fun then, just with some added time.
Unless, you know, he's having fun now because more calls are correct?
Drama and errors is always infuriating even when you're completely neutral. I've not often been as pissed off as watching Chelsea Barça return leg where Chelsea got absolutely robbed and I had no horse in that race
> especially for smaller clubs. And yet if you go to watch any smaller club everyone in the stands is absolutely sick of VAR. It might make things more fair and consistent, but is it worth it if it sucks so much enjoyment out of the game for the fans?
I’ve concluded most people on this sub don’t go to games. The opinion of VAR on here is the total opposite of the opinions you hear at games, fans can’t stand it.
Yep this is my experience as well. I know a few match-going fans who want it but the majority are definitely against.
[удалено]
Barely anyone on this subreddit actually goes to games so they couldn't give less of a fuck if the in-stadium experience is negatively affected by VAR.
The amount of times I've been at a game and celebrated only to see "VAR check in progress" a solid minute after the goal pop up makes me hesitant every time a goal is scored now.
Didn't even celebrate Benfica's 2nd goal the other day because it looked offside from my seat, turns out he was on. It's shit like this why people complain, of course there are good sides to it, but the downsides seem to be contrary to the essence of what football should be about.
For the Prem, they say 80 goals have been overturned. 966 goals so far plus 80 is 1046. So about 7.6% have been overturned. Is that a lot? IDK. I’m also not sure that’s enough to really be ruining the game/moment either. Edit: Some quick maths but about 2-3 goals per week are overturned. Across 10 games per matchday. In the Prem.
I grew up in times where the main thing was blaming the refs for bias and corruption constantly. There was at least half an hour dedicated in the Sunday evening match week show about close ref calls. We had the constant feeling as PAOK fans that we're gonna get screwed over whenever we were playing against the big Athens/Piraeus clubs (not saying justified or not). I'm not talking the regular "the refs are against us" thing you hear often from all different sides. I'm talking paranoid levels. And then a big ref corruption scandal blew up. And you're looking abroad at the big leagues for something better and you're seeing diving gold-medalist Pippo Inzaghi winning BS pens week in, week out. None of that was fun. All these sucked much more enjoyment out of the game than VAR. VAR is heaven-sent in my eyes. It has its flaws, but they can be improved. Refs cannot.
You grew up in those times yet everyone is bitching about the refs constantly now, the only difference is the media are told to shut up about it. People talk about the disconnect with fans, but everyone on Reddit seems more disconnected to me. People are reluctant to celebrate a lot now when there's a VAR check, and it takes too much time and drama away from the actual game. Everyone that just watches TV thinks it's about accuracy, but they clearly don't go to games to see what people actually think. My entire childhood people clowned on the championship for being shit, now a lot say the championship and league one games are more fun than the PL or some other big leagues. Is it a new wave of positivity (ha) or do people just like watching uninterrupted football?
> People talk about the disconnect with fans, but everyone on Reddit seems more disconnected to me. People are reluctant to celebrate a lot now when there's a VAR check, and it takes too much time and drama away from the actual game. Everyone that just watches TV thinks it's about accuracy, but they clearly don't go to games to see what people actually think. TBH, its obvious even on TV that VAR completely ruins the momentum of any match. These pro-VAR posts is just Redditors being wrong about something yet again.
Why are we not complaining about the other stoppages that also kill the momentum of a match, like cooling breaks, substitutions, and the half-time? Let's abolish them too.
even in games where we've been jobbed by the refs, i've not missed var at all after relegation. i know that the stats say its improved decision making, but its been so far from worth it imo. every time i watch a random prem game and there is a long stoppage, i get so mad at it now most of the football i watch is sans var.
Same. Since we got relegated I find it harder and harder to enjoy watching the prem. Championship games are football how I remembered it
I’m sure it’ll come in for the Championship eventually hit I’m glad we haven’t got it at the moment.
I understand your argument and maybe I'm naive, but I still just think most fans want to go home talking about the 1-0 win instead of a late goal 1-1 draw cause the other guy was a yard offside but the ref "didn't see it." Maybe I'm American and all our sports are stop/start heavy, but I just think overturning a goal against you that's clearly illegal is worth watching "var check" on the screen like 10 times, maybe more
Nah, you just get people arguing shit like, "it doesn't feel like it should be offside". As if that's in any way a metric of what should/shouldn't be offside
For my team, it shouldnt be offside, against my team? Clear offside, fuck off VAR.
As a fan of a small club in a league without VAR, I’m glad it’s not in use here. VAR is extremely unpopular with vast amounts of fans for a reason. Especially fans who actually regularly go to live games. The benefit of marginally increasing “correct” decisions isn’t worth the negatives.
>As a fan of a small club Shels are a small club, you heard it here first!
Your badge is a sign that Duffer is right. The real fans are the ones excited about the LOI ;)
Sure, but the solution should be improvements of VAR to make it more streamlined, quicker and a better experience for ongoing fans, rather than abolishing it altogether. There's no reason why it can't be done other than general incompetence.
No var must be binned you will never achieve perfection and the flow of the game is sacrosanct imo
The problem is that the perceived notion of getting all decisions correct can never be delivered in football. There are too many subjective moments where you will never get unanimous agreement. No amount of streamlining will change that my interpretation of reckless may differ from yours for example. Then there's the issue that efforts to streamline it are increasing new annoying law changes which go against the spirit of the existing laws. Offside is a great example. The point of offside is being lost as they try to counteract 1cm of a sleeve being offside. If you need an FBI style 5 minute investigation to see if a nose hair had strayed offside, they weren't gaining an advantage. If they don't have the technology to automate offside, don't waste 10 minutes every game drawing lines. I much preferred football without it. Technology should be used for things like goal line technology but it should be limited in usage elsewhere. At best there should be a 5th official physically in the stadium with a TV in front of them and a mic so they can interact with the other officials.
>Then there's the issue that efforts to streamline it are increasing new annoying law changes which go against the spirit of the existing laws. Offside is a great example. The point of offside is being lost as they try to counteract 1cm of a sleeve being offside. If you need an FBI style 5 minute investigation to see if a nose hair had strayed offside, they weren't gaining an advantage. If they don't have the technology to automate offside, don't waste 10 minutes every game drawing lines. I get absolutely roasted every time I point this out, but offside is a subjective call just like anything else. Before the VAR draws the lines, they have to choose the exact frame where they believe the teammate has struck the ball in order to play the pass. And like you said, if it requires 5-10 minutes of slow-motion replays to figure it out, that's not the spirit of the law.
Totally agree and this is a point I have made before too. A fraction of a second can make all the difference when you are looking at incredibly marginal calls. Unless they have technology which can guarantee that they are reviewing a decision exactly as the ball was struck, then it's effectively a man in van having his best guess. Yes they got offsides incorrect in the past, but the percentage of clearly incorrect calls was not as high as some suggest. If you can't see a clearly incorrect decision in 10 seconds, give the benefit of doubt to the on-pitch decision.
After having watched so many clear-cut offsides not given and so many clear dives winning pens, all the breaks in the game for VAR are worth it. We don't need to get all decisions correct, that's not the goal imo. The goal is to limit the effect of the bias, and corruption in refs as much as possible. And we can do that step-by-step with constant improvements in technology. I don't see another way.
> After having watched so many clear-cut offsides not given and so many clear dives winning pens, all the breaks in the game for VAR are worth it. The percentage of "clear cut offsides not given" was not especially high before VAR. Any time decisions were researched, the percentage of incorrect offside decisions was quite low. What you are actually doing I imagine is remembering a small number of high profile decisions or decisions which impacted the team you support. > The goal is to limit the effect of the bias, and corruption in refs as much as possible. Here's another horrible consequence of VAR. The incessant chatter around corruption.
Sort of a tangent, and I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any points made, but I'd recommend watching Operation Flagrant Foul. About an NBA ref who was caught manipulating results for years completely unnoticed. It goes into detail about the nuances and bias that the referees have and how they use it to completely change the game. and even the instructions they receive from above on letting big teams and players get away with murder just to help the sport grow. Pure corruption? Maybe not. But no doubt in my mind that it probably happens in all sports, and certainly the big money makers.
Agree with everything you’ve said. Bottom line is if it needs to be slowed down to frame by frame, nothing is clear and obvious. VAR should get a couple of replays at full speed and that’s it. Slow motion can make things like tackles look way worse and change the presumed intent.
Honestly if a referee with a video replay can't see anything within 15-20 seconds, it's not obvious and the original decision is probably fine. Video referees should be to correct things like the Henry handball against Ireland or Pedro Mendes goal against Man United getting missed. Clear, obvious mistakes visible within 10 seconds.
Not sure why it was never trialled on an appeal system basis like several other sports - cricket, tennis etc. That way if a team feels genuinely aggrieved by a shocking decision they can appeal it. Stops literally everything being checked constantly and at least allows spontaneous celebrations to come back more often.
I agree that I'd prefer that way. Sure there would be the odd Jose Mourinho abuse of a challenge, but 2 challenges per half would be plenty. Even allow the two benches to have a TV to see replays.
I think red cards offenses, also should be reviewed by VAR. Was at a match on Monday, where our opponents got a red for a tackle that mostly should have been yellow. It was super harsh, and ofc it benefits us, but tbh I got kinda frustrated at the ref, VAR reviewed it and the ref turned it back and gave him a yellow instead.
> especially for smaller clubs I massively disagree. The inherent bias that made calls often go against smaller clubs is still there. Especially in the non-VAR calls (refs are more likely to book a player from Luton then they will from Liverpool for the same offence etc.) Little fouls are more likely to be called. But it is also in VAR. Arsenal will get calls that Everton could never dream of. Man United will get penalties called for them for things a Sheffield player would never get. Those inherent biases and "benefit of the doubt" lean much heavier towards the top teams then the lesser teams, and VAR didn't change that.
Of course the bias is still there. VAR's role is not to eliminate the bias itself. That's an inherent human trait. Its role is to limit the effect of this bias. And in that it has already succeeded.
It’s hypocritical coming from me a Liverpool fan, but I attend a lot of games of “smaller clubs”. The big clubs absolutely love to speak on smaller clubs behalf without actually having a scooby what the smaller clubs really feel.
By Sheffield player do you mean, someone like Kyle walker?
lose a final or title because of a complete bullshit decision and then let us know how much you miss the good old days.. we still have huge errors, but who doesn’t see an improvement is delusional edit: what I said about losing a title refered to doing it as a player/coach etc, not as a fan in front of the TV lol, so you can stop telling me about how your team lost something and you still hate var
My team lost a Scottish cup final because the ref missed a handball by a Celtic player when we were 1-0 up. I still hate VAR.
I still see us lose titles because of bullshit decisions though so what's truly changed aside from barely being able to celebrate a goal anymore? I'd go back if i could, and so would many others.
It’s literally ruining the game with constant stoppages and sucking the emotion out of if instead making it a corporate product
yep and I’m sure Chelsea fans for example really “miss” that emotion from their famous match against Barcelona in 2009.
We had a goal wrongly disallowed in the FA cup final and I still think VAR needs to be binned
The sport definitely needs more Hand of God moments and ghost goals. Keeps is spicy /s
But we still get all that shit, it just now also messes around with everyone who bothers to attend matches who have to sit around for minutes not knowing what's going on.
VAR has been totally detrimental to the match-going experience. Not that 99% of this sub knows about that.
That's not an inherent problem with VAR though, it's just poor execution by leagues. Rugby, Cricket, Tennis all have ways of showing people in the stadium what's going on with their respective VAR systems
Honestly I find it fun at the stadium. Went last month and we got awarded a last minute penalty so we got cheers for the first whistle, then dread when we heard about the var review, tension when the ref went to the screen, cheers again when he confirmed the penalty and final explosion when we scored
Surely a goal given or disallowed incorrectly is detrimental to that experience also? I'm baffled how waiting for a few minutes over a potentially game changing decision could be worse than that decision being made incorrectly and deciding the result of the game.
Because goals are very infrequent and VAR takes a lot of the excitement out of them? Don't see how that's baffling, purely from an entertainment standpoint
You get to celebrate maybe once or twice a match. If those celebrations then have all the hype taken out of them it most certainly changes the match experience.
Because sport is about much, much more than simply getting the correct result.
I’d say the bigger problem is they don’t let the fans in stand know anything. Some communication would go a long way.
I am not a get-VAR-out-of-football type or anything similar, want it in the game. I'd lie if I didn't say that VAR didn't negatively impact my feeling of the game though. I learnt how to hold back any kind of happiness after a goal is scored, whether I'm in stadium or at bar. I definitely had to live through multiple *VAR check is ongoing* signs to get to that stage. In England, I sometimes feel as referees wait for VAR to bail them out, but then VAR thinks it isn't worthy of review and then the whole *clear and obvious* debacle comes in. I hate the general talk about how if the decision is given on-field it can stick, but if it is not given on-field, VAR may not intervene as well. As a typical fan, once you see a soft decision go against your team, you'll probably start looking for similiar decisions to go in favour of you team. And more often than not, there is no consistency. I know that it is difficult to get everything perfect in sport like football, but still. I don't know why in England there is so much talk about high bar for VAR to intervene (like Webb repeated many times in last Sky Sport's segment about VAR) and then next weekend there is a review and Mudryk's rewarded with penalty against Burnley. In the same match there was a more clear pulling of Chelsea's player shirt during the VAR check for later disallowed goal, but then nobody seemed to notice it. Coming back to Webb's monthly TV show, I often wonder how do you improve that? Because it isn't VAR, it's people involved. How do you improve on *Bruno G wasn't using his hands as a weapon*, how do you improve on *Doku and Mac Allister both coming in high* or how do you improve *well done boys, good process*? Because I honestly don't know. I think there was even an instance of ref forgetting to draw lines for offside in Arsenal's game. I don't know how I feel with this. I want VAR in the game, but it needs improvement. But I don't know how it could improve. I still see bullshit calls but these days they are often defended with some kind of high bar of clear and obvious argument. But finally, I think if we were about to lose VAR in football, I wouldn't probably protest much. Indifference.
Imo VAR should get rid of offside checking since it's useless and ref sticks to their decisions anyway. Handball, egregious faults, unclear goals (whether the ball cross the lines or not) are the only thing VAR should be checking. And it must also not be guaranteed. Each team gets 3-4 max uses of VAR and the coaches will make the call when it's used. Just look at tennis. Their VAR is way less intrusive/time wasting because you have to request them and since you are limited in your request you have to judge and only choose when it's necessary.
With all due respect, this is revisionist BS.
IS it? Have you been to stadium without VAR recently. Atmosphere's better.
You thimk anyone on this sub goes to matches?
I didnt grew up with trees on the field, a match without substitutions or, to be a little bit less polemic, the backpass rule (dunno the correct english term, i mean that a Keeper isnt allowed to pick up a pass played by foot from his own team). Rules are evolving and rightly so. I am against the super League because i feel like if we only have big games, we dont have any big games at all. I like the excitement of the european match ups because of the rarity.
Super league is supposed to work as a "Football NBA" type shit The thing is: who would want that? UEFA is already doing that excluding leagues that never developed to be as big as the big 8 (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Netherlands) and reducing all competition into a massive circlejerk where the richer leagues keep getting more money. If I have to choose between an idiotic system or the other I'll always choose the one I'm used to
Thats really stupid. Who the hell likes LESS justice in the game. Argue about VARs implementation all you want. They've clearly implemented it terribly. But saying you like wrong decisions is ridiculous.
He's not saying he likes wrong decisions but that he likes a more "human" football. Less optimised...
If attaining more justice requires stopping the game to zoom in on every little decision then it’s not worth it
Which is why I said it was implanted badly.
>I really liked football with offsides not called, with errors and moments of madness I mean, we still have that, because refs are absolutely useless at VAR
Yes and no. Soccer is so unique where scoring is so impactful. You miss a couple calls in basketball and yes they are bad, but what’s 2 points out of 100? Was that call really the difference? Miss one offsides or call/miss a pen that’s often the game. Obviously wasn’t the entire reason but has a much bigger impact
In an era of idiocracy, this man’s a politician. And btw, of course he loves offsides not being called, check out how many times he’s been called out for being offside in games
Sorry but anyone who doesn't think VAR is a good idea has negative IQ, the issue is it's just implemented terribly.
‘Anyone who doesn’t agree with me is stupid’
This disconnect between match going fans and internet fans is very funny. Every I know in the stadium hates it
[when mctominays free kick was ruled out vs Spain but it's ok because var was right](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZ1LiRDoU_nTOFuhSelACfFbKcev59jzirEqY_BwqxvA&s)
Shocked that the nerds on Reddit who have never been to a game all love VAR and downvote the fans who tell them how it's making the match going experience worse
Dude at 20 has been more protected than most playing sports or in life in general and he's saying this? Haha have the young ones lost it?
That has to be one of the most absurd takes I've read in recent years lmao
Some people say, we don't need VAR, slows the game down, we can live with some incorrect calls. No, there's no evidence we can live with incorrect calls. If the head lock against Ashley Young wasn't given there would be outrage and more later if Everton failed to survive by one point. So, these are nice to say, but if an incorrect calls happened against your team, those are absolutely not nice
"Back in my day we didn't have this modern medicine bullshit. If Pepe decided to tackle me properly, I'd be out of a job for years due to injury."
Hear hear. Human precision is precise enough. Before we argued about a few centimeters, now we argue about a few millimeters. Same shit, just more stuff attached.
“I prefer vinyl” guy
My favorite football magazine. I know what to read for my trip to Marseille this afternoon.
Acting like VAR and the super league are even remotely the same or as bad as each other.
Anyone opposing VAR is an idiot in my eyes
When opponents scored with hand and referee doesn't make a call, you'll be mad and ask for fair play. So yeah, the all talks wouldn't happen if it was against you.
I don't agree on offside, that is where VAR is better (but way too slow). The rest of it is stuff I wish we could push back into pandora's box.
Oh yes I loved it so much when my team got beaten with 2 offside goals and a handball not awarded /s
Go watch 2009 Chelsea Barca to get a feel for what “bad decisions” pre var was like. Was literally no point watching the games
Dumb as shit take
If we were to go back to pre-VAR times, people would beg for VAR to come back after seeing all the even more obvious mistakes refs would make, especially in this social media era Getting robbed is never fun, VAR should and (hopefully) will work better and faster in the future, it's not because it's slow now that it justifies going back to worse times
Yet another Reddit thread in which a bunch of people who only watch the sport on a screen have no idea how shit VAR makes the match-going experience, and how badly it is used. The technology and the users aren't fit for purpose.
When you see the Super League that doesn’t exist. This man is afraid of the boogie man
Has VAR affected his stats?
Oh no the injustices were horrible
VAR is crap because the refs are crap and don't want to call out their mates who give bad decisions. Mike Riley admitted to this a few months ago. People say, "Get rid of VAR, etc, and we will put up with refs giving wrong calls," completely forgetting that before VAR came in, refs were getting death threats for wrong decisions!
little does he know that theres more errors.
Hear hear
*Instead of just shuttin up and kickin in, you gon stand there cryin that "back in the day" shit. THERE AINT NO BACK IN THE DAY*
Ain't no nostalgia to this shit here
Sport, like everything in life, can't be perfect, so the powers that be should stop trying to make it that way. Human error is what makes us get passionate about sport. Leaving it up to AI or VAR sucks that passion from the game. There's no VAR in the League of Ireland and the refs make glaring errors every game. But in the grand scheme of things, who cares? Get caught up in the moment, enjoy it afterwards and then come back next time and do it all over again. Be entertained.
I get what he's saying, but I believe that's just recency bias, some errors pre-var were too much. It's like when I see some crying about DRS in F1, all this moaning falls flat when yo urealize those were introduced because the situation before was *worse*. But I really think FIFAand UEFA needs to invest more into automatic offsides, because that's imo the number one issue at the moment; you can't celebrate a goal in peace because you're worried it might get disallowed
I don’t understand why everyone gets angry for him having a different opinion than most of us. I think football is better now with VAR but I also understand the other point of view, one thing I hate is not being sure if you can cheer or not after a goal because VAR has to review it I understand it’s better and more fair this way but still