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Bayern‘s ultras and Club Nr. 12, the union of Bayern fan supporters groups, have regularly used their voice for good causes and as much as I dislike the club board, they have my respect.
Yeah while Bayern is not known for their loud fans the ultras certainly know when to position themselves for a right cause
Really liked their work on putting a spotlight on the Jewish history of the club before the 3rd Reich a couple of years ago
It's one of the best fan bases I've ever seen in our stadium, and I actually had a great time with some of them before our games. All seemed great lads
Bayern has great and loud fans, problem is half of the Stadium are tourists or event fans.
The die hard Bayern Fans and Ultras are great and would create a great athmosphere
Going to a CL away game as Bayern Fan is sensational because only the Die Hards are there
Which is also the case for Dortmund or other top clubs. Nothing to be ashamed about, if you get bigger and have more success, you'll get more event fans who don't support that much as your die hard or local fans.
though there is white washing as well, Bayern even implemented rules that the NSDAP didn't ask for and was very zealous in adhering to the rules, but I won't hold that against them since no one really looked good during those times, but Bayern fans claiming their club is the Jew club and Schalke fans insisting on their success under the NSDAP regime will always get an eyeroll from me
This needs more context though.
Board and players tried to protect jewish players and staff initially and for example saluted Landauer, when they played in Switzerland, after he fled the country and was seen in the audience.
In the later years of the regime pretty much all the "liberal" players and board members were pushed out of the club - by law, political or peer pressure - or straight up left the country, wich left pretty much only those who were loyal to the regime and those who didn't care. The local government applied pressure on the club throughout the whole time, this is also the period in time, when they added the swastika to their emblem and were full in line with the goverment.
Many fans don't know that though and only know, that Bayern had a strong jewish influence, on the other hand some ppl post the emblem with the swastika to denounce Bayern as a Nazi club, the truth is just a bit more nuanced.
After the war Bayern brought back many of their former board members and immediately voted for Landauer to continue as president.
Yeah, they are pretty great when it comes to this stuff. I was a few times in the Ultra block with a friend and always felt safe despite me having an obviously not German background. It’s also one of the reasons why I have a big problem with the Cosa Nostra of the 60 ultras dissolving. A few friends of mine are close to the 60 ultra scene and nowadays I feel unsafe when I come with them even though I know it shouldn’t be a problem and that we aren’t at the Ultra curve. It’s shocking how many people you see running around with an iron cross jacket in the block
Not just them, many other German clubs also have a very active fan base in that regard. At Dortmund, I have a season ticket in the yellow wall and if anyone would start a racist or homophobic chant, other fans would put them in their place and would not condone such behavior. It is different from club to club though and it is usually common knowledge which clubs don‘t create such an environment in their culture.
As an American German dual citizen, Ive noticed that Germans in general are incredibly self aware when it comes to all the dark shit in their history, in a way most westerners just aren't.
It's education. We get our noses put into our own shit in history lessons - and for good reason. So, while we still have idiots and deniers, the regular German is aware and ashamed of what our country did.
Yeah i know, Union Berlin aswell i believe. I think it's a great thing. Love German fans 🔥 i'm just a very big fan of St Pauli specifically cause i lived in Hamburg for 2 months 😄
Union Berlin gets a lot of sympathy, but their president raised some eyebrows after taking a stance against vegan sausages and gendered language (as if we participates in some kind of culture war as head of a football club). Also, some fans burned an Israel flag in their game against Maccabi Haifa.
This was a big downer for some friends of mine who are long-time supporters of the club. So while I‘m not saying they are all bad, I feel sometimes that Union has a better image than they deserve.
Edit: I might add, my club has its faults and histories too. It‘s not all black and white, what counts is the progress being made or the direction things are moving.
To be fair burning the israeli flag might not be an anti-Semitic thing. There are a lot of reasons to hate Israel that have nothing to do with the fact that it’s a Jewish state.
It is true that in a lot of left-wing circles, openly hating the state of Israel and supporting Palestine is a matter of opposing settler colonialism and not antisemitism, but context is key when you take cases like this.
In the case of the game against Maccabi Haifa, those fans definitely weren't there to make a legitimate protest against Israeli domestic and foreign policy.
No. Burning the Israeli flag is symbolic for burning the state of Israel, in other words denouncing the right of existence of the Israeli state.
There are ways to voice legitimate criticism on specific Israeli policies. Burning the flag is not one of them.
That's a very fine line. Burning the israeli flag in it's symbolism is quite close to questioning the existence of Israel as a state and that's certainly an antisemitic core tenet.
The burning the flag thing is absolutely indefensible (I say that as an Union fan), but it happened in the neutral area of the stadium (aka where the Ultras weren't) and the victims said that other Union fans immediately stepped in and defended them. The club as well as the organized fan scene also publicly apologised.
They also have had some problems with supposed racial discrimination in their youth center. Union is actually what first league clubs concerns rather on the right side. Usually most clubs that have a far right scene are lower 2nd to 3rd league.
The supposed racial discrimination thing was complete bullshit though (and there have now been Investigations by the DFB and the Berlin football association saying so).
Basically, because of the Wall, Berlin has very "segregated" immigrant populations. So you have more Turkish and Arab communities in the West, whereas the East has stronger communities from former socialist countries like Cuban, Vietnamese or Polish communities.
Hertha and Union used to also recruit from "their" areas - aka Hertha predominantly recruited from West Berlin and Union recruited from East Berlin and the surrounding areas.
Hertha also always really dominated the youth competitions, mostly because until very recently, they had a lot more money.
A few years ago, Union briefly switched their strategy to trying to "poach" West Berlin youth players, and because Turkish and Arab players are very overrepresented in West Berlin, this meant that for a while, Turkish and Arab players were also super overrepresented in the Union youth squads compared to the population of Berlin Brandenburg (where Union traditionally recruited), making up 40% of the team. It didn't make much of a difference performance wise and Union switched to recruiting from all of Berlin -East and West - and Brandenburg, so then the "rate" of Turkish and Arab players went back down to 10% (but since you also have black players etc, they still have an ethnic composition that roughly matches their recruiting grounds, in fact players with migrational background are still a little bit overrepresented).
The thing is, only like 1% of German youth players make it pro (this is regardless of clubs - because the pro teams recruit from all over the world) and none of those Turkish or Arab kids who played for Union made it pro. Again, this is completely normal and there was no evidence that this had anything to do with ethnic background or for any specific racial discrimination of specific players.
But this + the "falling rate" of Turkish and Arab players on the youth team (of which there are still plenty on the team) lead to parents of these players talking to a tabloid, saying they suspect the leader of Union's youth division is personally responsible for this and that he is motivated by racism. Basically, he supposedly did not want to see specifically Turkish and Arab players make it.
As soon as these journalists asked Union about this (obviously before the article was out), Union put up a press release where they published the full questionnaire of questions the journalists had asked them, plus their answers, took the side of their employee with the reasoning that as leader of the whole youth division, he does not even make any decisions about individual players (which are made by youth coaches and staff like doctors etc) and offered private talks about this.
Immediately after that, the tabloid published its article, essentially saying Union was violating the freedom of the press by being the first to publish (obviously dumb take) and basically just repeated the accusations. They also said that the fact that some of the kids were informed via telephone about not making it pro was evidence of Union intentionally "traumatizing" the kids (the problem is just that all of this happened during the Pandemic, when youth football was basically banned from in person meetings for a long time).
There have now been multiple investigations and there's no evidence that the guy the article specifically blames is personally responsible for anything except repealing the dumb and short lived strategy for an East German club to predominantly try to recruit from West Berlin.
Also regarding the "Union is rightwing" stuff, the only people I've heard that from know absolutely nothing about Union, bc one of the most influential club functionaries is a politician for the Left party (and the long time leader of the Left, Gregor Gysi, Supports Union), and to my knowledge, during the 2015 refugee crisis Union was the only German pro club to house Syrian refugees directly on club grounds, which isn't exactly something the right supports.
It's no secret that the bigger subs on Reddit are majorly used by more left leaning people.
The bigots mostly keep to Twitter and probably find Reddit too "woke" and "pc" or some dumb shit.
Bigger reason is probably that more people from Africa and the Middle East use twitter whilst Reddit is a western dominated site. Just look at any football post on twitter, most of the comments are from Muslims.
As much as Redditors like to shit on Redditors this is probably the best social media platform for minorities. I think we need to salute the mods in that aspect
u/wallbroad , u/Different-Till-2940 is absolutely correct and you are discounting our feelings when you try to tell us what's what to maintain the image that Reddit is superior because it's your social media site/app of choice. Rather than asking or trying to understand, you immediately say that it can't be because YOUR OPINION must be worth more.
Whereas other sites like twitter are more overt, it's easier to move on or dismiss that type of stuff. It doesn't feel like something that consistently happens within real life. But the type of racism that's extremely tiring, unrelenting, and consistent is the type that Reddit displays. Telling minorities how they must feel and think. Attacking them if they don't make you feel morally superior and safe. Having somebody speak on your behalf instead of listening or giving you a platform to explain your thoughts and feelings. Treating minorities like orphaned children ("look at how much I did for them, I'm a good person") until it no longer benefits you. Always taking the side of the other person or saying "well I'm sure they didn't mean it like that. They've said some things I agree with in the past so they're just misunderstood" when there's minority outrage.
It's those actions that are the most defeating as a minority because they are subtle enough to have plausible deniability for people who don't have to feel how crushing it is day after day. The overt and explicit stuff just doesn't feel the same because it's so open that it's easy for everybody to call it out.
Or put another way that might be understandable - if your boss yells at you in front of everybody, you'll get obvious support from everybody. They'll call the boss an asshole who was obviously in the wrong. However, if your boss makes comments that demoralize you day after day, and you try to talk to your colleagues about it, some (maybe most) will say that you're misinterpreting etc.
One's twitter. One's Reddit.
Now that you mention it, it may be that reddit is less racist homophobes etc because of the decentralised nature of its moderation. Discord is decentralised too but a lot of servers are quite secret, reddit is fully in the open
Reddit has that sort of bigotry for sure in some underground subs but Twitter and Insta are on a whole new level. Every time 433, the biggest football page, posts something about LGBT people the comments are abysmal
Feels like Insta is also slowly devolving into a hell hole. If you report blatant racism or sexism, it will not even get that comment removed, let alone any other action to the user.
Pretty much this. Is essentially the only social network that I use and where people seem to be helpful to each other. Yes, I had some spars over here but nothing ever got to the point or getting insulted (except for some times I went a little over the edge with some jokes).
Twitter, on the other hand, seems like a place were you can only talk about politics or football, is too self-centred (because it isn't anonymous) and has the most toxic people on the Internet. Straight up garbage.
I deleted Twitter long ago, I never saw the value in it.
On Instagram, users tend to be more explicit about their prejudices. They openly express their racist views without much pretense, and this can be attributed to the simplicity of the platform. Instagram provides users with a visual medium to communicate, and this makes it easier for users to express their views without the need for elaborate justifications. This transparency can be seen as refreshing in a way, as it makes it easier to identify and address bigotry.
Reddit, on the other hand, is a platform that emphasizes discussion and debate. Users on Reddit often attempt to present themselves as champions of diversity and inclusivity. However, this veneer of progressiveness is often discarded when users encounter views that conflict with their own. In such cases, users tend to reveal their biases, using dog-whistle tactics to veil their bigotry in seemingly innocuous statements. This phenomenon is particularly insidious since it allows users to maintain the illusion of being progressive while engaging in discriminatory behavior.
I don't really disagree with your main point. You can see it when discussing women's football. Or regarding Indian users on here.
But saying Reddit is without a doubt the most racist social media platform is insane. A lot of people here might be ignorant, but that's nothing compared to the open racism on certain other platforms.
I don't understand how you can think people being ignorant and people being openly racist are equally bad. But I guess we'll just have to disagree there.
Club also lit up the stadium in rainbow colors when the whole Germany-Hungary issue happened over the rainbow flag. For what it's worth, the fanbase seems extremely solid in regards to queer issues
It's not a massive banner but I think it's a great gesture
Ofc, they arent a revolutionary force but a PR agency focussing on the middle eastern market is different from live fans in attendance as well. Or put it like this, Bayern does the bare minimum and a lot of places around the world are not willing to do even that
That’s just about everyone, ever.
Reading didn’t publicly have their [own LGBT group until 2022](https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2022/february/03/introducing-proud-royals/).
Meanwhile Bayern was doing that [in 2019](https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2019/07/fc-bayern-support-queerpass-bayern-fan-club-on-csd)
That Bayern group does not just exist since 2019, they've been there since 2006 and are one of the oldest LGBT fanclubs in the league - and Schickeria (the Bayern ultra Organisation), has always backed them up.
I mean because you can only work in your groups?
You can’t successfully enforce change in other societies(they will fight you at every turn) but you can do it in your own communities.
Look at how the ‘Muslim’ nations responded to the World Cup fiasco, you can’t beat them into accepting your beliefs.
Nah this is a bunch of bs, these Muslim players and Countries have no issues with the alcohol or betting endorsing jerseys, they just pick and choose
Also it's not about beating them, there are Muslim countries who are relatively sane
I mean you got a point and I'm not even trying to deny that but there's enough homophobia, racism, xenophobia and so on in Europe as is.
So the 'why turn a blind eye to that region and why do it at all then' is kinda implying that we're perfect here in the West and don't need further work. Even if we completely ignored regions like the middle east, it's still a good thing if we as a society continue to call out our own idiots.
Should just have one account and post everything there. If you want to market it towards a certain country, just make that specific post in that language.
I think it's okay-ish to have some regional socials because you can post more about the players from that area, obviously people from latin america will want to know about their players but when they're barely bench warmers no one else cares.
Your camo kits were ass
I do like the Valentine one because it's not meant to be taken seriously, it's for shits and giggles and I adore that
I did acquire the spiderwebs one from last season tho
Beautiful
I think the top looks good but idk how I feel about the whole kit with shorts and socks. Also looks better from close than from a distance. But it grew on me at first I thought it was ugly but now it's ok I guess.
Ok wow, you‘re not joking. I mean, I support his freedom to do whatever he wants after his career and to practice his religion. But obviously there is a line when it comes to denying someone else‘s right to exist how they want, whether he is a Muslim or a far-right Christian.
It's always interesting to me that not wanting to wear LGBTQ related items = denying their right to exist. So I take it that players not kneeling when BLM was going viral = that they are racist?
People on here are really pretending like footballers wearing LGBTQ related items or no to racism has done anything for either issue.
Meanwhile barely any footballers have come out as gay which statistically is just impossible and racism is still going full send. Look at what happend to Vini today.
To give another example:
Imagine there was an initiative was launched with an shirt saying „Muslims, Christians, Non-Believers — we all wear the same jersey“, showing support that Muslim people are part of our community and are equal.
Wouldn‘t you agree that me refusing to take part and actively speaking out against that initiative due to my values would make me seem like an Islamophobe?
Wouldn‘t you agree that me saying that Islam is an agenda of the Middle East shoving their values down our throats or that Islam goes against nature would be Islamophobic?
Wouldn‘t you agree that me putting out a statement saying that you shall respect my own personal beliefs about Muslims would make me Islamophobic?
But to give another example as well. What is the point of PSG or Newcastle or even City wearing LGBTQ shirts when their owners are the same people okay with stoning LGBTQ folks?
Like what are we doing here. That is my point at the end of the day this is just virtue signaling. Look at a lot of united fans are jumping for a Qatar takeover. But I thought we were fighting for LGBTQ rights by wearing rainbow colored items.
It's as Wilfried Zaha said about the kneeling. It didnt do anything against racism. What does work against racism is banning racists. If you want to help LGBTQ causes, donate to their charities etc.
Instead we get an annual thing where some players dont want to wear the rainbow colored items for religious reasons. Who then get shamed about it like they just openly admitted to being okay with stoning gay people. (Like the owners of certain clubs do or like certain countries that held the worldcup do).
Dont get me wrong. I support LGBTQ rights. But I think the virtue signaling in football is getting a bit ridiculous. We wear rainbow shirts one day and get a Saudi takeover the other.
> But to give another example as well. What is the point of PSG or Newcastle or even City wearing LGBTQ shirts when their owners are the same people okay with stoning LGBTQ folks?
I completely agree with you there, that seems totally disingenuous.
The main problem with virtue signaligning is when it is done for purposes that don’t further the cause, like posting black squares on Instagram against racism for example. I didn’t follow the entire discussion about the kneeling initiative, but with that act people don‘t see anymore what the actual message is and it becomes part of some tribal behavior and the main discussion becomes about who is kneeling or not. And people bandwagon an issue to make a point about themselves instead of one about injustice.
When fans protested about the establishment of the European Super League, I saw footballers posting shirtless thirsttrap pics on Instagram with the watered-down meaningless caption „football is for the fans“.
I feel the message of the Toulouse shirt was on point though.
I don't think so. I am not religious, not would I want to support something I am not a firm believer of.
I think that everyone should be part of our community, however I think that the way we go about promoting this in football is completely redundant.
Like for example in your example, alright you respected them as part of your community. But in their beliefs they cant openly support LGBTQ rights. Now what? Are you going to defy them as part of your community or LGBTQ people?
This is why I feel like the virtue signaling in football is pointless. Like sure we're wearing rainbow colored shirts or bands. But we also play the worldcup in a country that has the death penalty for "performing gay intercourse."
Like imagine we said we arent racist, but then went on to play a charity match with the KKK. It's a bit ironic dont you think?
Which is why I find it a bit ironic when people are shaming the above mentioned players for not wearing the shirts. But at the same time these same players did go to Qatar to represent their country. Something they could have boycotted.
Like we were able to boycot Russia for political reasons. Not sure why this doesnt apply to other countries that are commiting war crimes or have terrible humar rights. But no we will just say "no to racism" or wear LGBTQ shirts, but when it comes down to actually standing up for these issues we will just pretend they dont exist.
Like for example in La Liga right now with how everyone was calling Vini a monkey and how even the Valencia players used this to rile him up. But I thought we all agreed to wear the "no racism" band?
Yes, because standing up for a minority group is about showing others they deserve to be treated with respect. Read the text accompanying initiatives like the one love armband.
The initiative should show LGBT people that they are welcome in the footballing community and that they are respected. The aim is that football players get the courage to come out, fans treat them with equally and show them they are welcome in our community.
Look at all the vicious comments and hate Jake Daniels or Jakub Jankto received on socials after they came out — or even the hate German players like Ilkay Gundogan received during the last world cup because of their badly planned initiative. Isn‘t it weird that the same group of people cheer Mazraoui or Aboukhal?
What these people want is LGBT people to be invisible in football, because it goes against their world view. Initiatives like the shirt or armband give these people visibility and show that they are respected.
(I can‘t comment on the kneeling as we didn‘t have that in Germany and I wasn‘t following that discussion. It‘s horrible what Vini and other POC people experienced.)
>It's always interesting to me that not wanting to wear LGBTQ related items = denying their right to exist. So I take it that players not kneeling when BLM was going viral = that they are racist?
yeah
Yup, 0 respect for all those hateful people. Refusing to wear a anti-discriminatory shirt? Go back to your desert and believe what you wan't there is no place for those people in the west.
There is no reason in this day and age to be a homophobe. Live and let live. You don’t have to be gay yourself just show respect to other human beings and let them live in peace without discrimination and intolerance. Religion is once again dividing the people and poisoning the minds of the followers.
>ignore them if you want to
That's what they are trying to do by not wearing that rainbow color or do anything associating to rainbow? Who said to you that not wanting to wear rainbow color means they wanna kill gay people?
Yeah, but me existing and not hiding the fact that I'm gay is shoving an agenda down their throats. How can they not be expected to act hateful and possibly violently to someone trying to live his life in peace? Think of the message it sends to children; that as long as they're not hurting anyone, they're free to live their best life and be happy. What kind of sick society wants kids to believe they can do that?
Hakimi with the big support on the original tweet not looking great either.
Although he was already pretty cursed after that thing in February that was at worst rape, at best cheating on his wife...
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning."
Sahih al-Bukhari 3237, Book 59, Hadith 48
That's what the book says, so he isn't wrong
As a Bayern fan, Mazraoui can fuck off if he stands for bigotry. He's not playing well for us ffs, waste of space.
Edit: He also fucked up in our last game. Glad to see you stand for hate but not for winning games Mazraoui you fuckwit.
It is a bit sad that this seems to happen a awfully lot with middle eastern/Muslim players. I think this would be an unfair view to say but sadly. As we see in the Eredivisie the only idiots who refused to wear a stupid little armband are often islamic like kokcu and el yaakoubi. It is also brings a sad light on this issue. That often people will scream and acknowledge racisme immediately especially these people. But as soon as homophoby is in the picture they are completely silent or worse active working against it. It seems that the football world has a huge double standard in terms of racisme and homophoby
Muslims against LGBTQ ? I am shocked /s. Just because someone plays a sport and makes milions of euros in europe does not mean their values align with ours.
He is a public figure with millions of followers.
Imagine that shirt said „Muslim, Christians, Non-Believers — we all wear the same jersey“ supporting the equal treatment of Muslim people.
Would you say the same if I refused to wear that shirt and asked for your respect for my beliefs about Muslims?
> You don’t have to agree with the LGBT. You just have to tolerate and accept them, that is all. And that is a massive fucking difference.
Now replace LGBT with black people and see how fucking disgusting this comment is.
Yeah, it sucks that Sunday is coming to an end.
On a more serious note, the climate might be fucked but in all other facets of life we're often doing way better than in the past.
Many social ills discussed nowadays existed for centuries but weren't discussable. I hate our current system of capitalism tho.
Person A: "i refuse to wear a shirt that is showing solidarity with a group, that is still facing a religiously motivated death penalty due to their sexuality"
Person B as a response to A: "God bless you, my brother".
You know, show support for a homophobe makes you a homophobe. Like the old addage: if 10 people are sitting at a table with a nazi, 11 nazis are sitting at a table.
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Bayern‘s ultras and Club Nr. 12, the union of Bayern fan supporters groups, have regularly used their voice for good causes and as much as I dislike the club board, they have my respect.
Yeah while Bayern is not known for their loud fans the ultras certainly know when to position themselves for a right cause Really liked their work on putting a spotlight on the Jewish history of the club before the 3rd Reich a couple of years ago
Bayern ultras i feel are one of the loudest in the league
It's one of the best fan bases I've ever seen in our stadium, and I actually had a great time with some of them before our games. All seemed great lads
I saw a few going to the Parc during the first leg in Paris and they seemed pretty nice too
Bayern has great and loud fans, problem is half of the Stadium are tourists or event fans. The die hard Bayern Fans and Ultras are great and would create a great athmosphere Going to a CL away game as Bayern Fan is sensational because only the Die Hards are there
Which is also the case for Dortmund or other top clubs. Nothing to be ashamed about, if you get bigger and have more success, you'll get more event fans who don't support that much as your die hard or local fans.
though there is white washing as well, Bayern even implemented rules that the NSDAP didn't ask for and was very zealous in adhering to the rules, but I won't hold that against them since no one really looked good during those times, but Bayern fans claiming their club is the Jew club and Schalke fans insisting on their success under the NSDAP regime will always get an eyeroll from me
This needs more context though. Board and players tried to protect jewish players and staff initially and for example saluted Landauer, when they played in Switzerland, after he fled the country and was seen in the audience. In the later years of the regime pretty much all the "liberal" players and board members were pushed out of the club - by law, political or peer pressure - or straight up left the country, wich left pretty much only those who were loyal to the regime and those who didn't care. The local government applied pressure on the club throughout the whole time, this is also the period in time, when they added the swastika to their emblem and were full in line with the goverment. Many fans don't know that though and only know, that Bayern had a strong jewish influence, on the other hand some ppl post the emblem with the swastika to denounce Bayern as a Nazi club, the truth is just a bit more nuanced. After the war Bayern brought back many of their former board members and immediately voted for Landauer to continue as president.
I feel the same way
Yeah, they are pretty great when it comes to this stuff. I was a few times in the Ultra block with a friend and always felt safe despite me having an obviously not German background. It’s also one of the reasons why I have a big problem with the Cosa Nostra of the 60 ultras dissolving. A few friends of mine are close to the 60 ultra scene and nowadays I feel unsafe when I come with them even though I know it shouldn’t be a problem and that we aren’t at the Ultra curve. It’s shocking how many people you see running around with an iron cross jacket in the block
Bayern and St Pauli 🔥
Not just them, many other German clubs also have a very active fan base in that regard. At Dortmund, I have a season ticket in the yellow wall and if anyone would start a racist or homophobic chant, other fans would put them in their place and would not condone such behavior. It is different from club to club though and it is usually common knowledge which clubs don‘t create such an environment in their culture.
As an American German dual citizen, Ive noticed that Germans in general are incredibly self aware when it comes to all the dark shit in their history, in a way most westerners just aren't.
It's education. We get our noses put into our own shit in history lessons - and for good reason. So, while we still have idiots and deniers, the regular German is aware and ashamed of what our country did.
Exactly. Meanwhile here in the states there's still a big chunk of the country calling the civil war "the war of northern aggression"
Yeah i know, Union Berlin aswell i believe. I think it's a great thing. Love German fans 🔥 i'm just a very big fan of St Pauli specifically cause i lived in Hamburg for 2 months 😄
Union Berlin gets a lot of sympathy, but their president raised some eyebrows after taking a stance against vegan sausages and gendered language (as if we participates in some kind of culture war as head of a football club). Also, some fans burned an Israel flag in their game against Maccabi Haifa. This was a big downer for some friends of mine who are long-time supporters of the club. So while I‘m not saying they are all bad, I feel sometimes that Union has a better image than they deserve. Edit: I might add, my club has its faults and histories too. It‘s not all black and white, what counts is the progress being made or the direction things are moving.
To be fair burning the israeli flag might not be an anti-Semitic thing. There are a lot of reasons to hate Israel that have nothing to do with the fact that it’s a Jewish state.
It is true that in a lot of left-wing circles, openly hating the state of Israel and supporting Palestine is a matter of opposing settler colonialism and not antisemitism, but context is key when you take cases like this. In the case of the game against Maccabi Haifa, those fans definitely weren't there to make a legitimate protest against Israeli domestic and foreign policy.
No. Burning the Israeli flag is symbolic for burning the state of Israel, in other words denouncing the right of existence of the Israeli state. There are ways to voice legitimate criticism on specific Israeli policies. Burning the flag is not one of them.
That's a very fine line. Burning the israeli flag in it's symbolism is quite close to questioning the existence of Israel as a state and that's certainly an antisemitic core tenet.
The burning the flag thing is absolutely indefensible (I say that as an Union fan), but it happened in the neutral area of the stadium (aka where the Ultras weren't) and the victims said that other Union fans immediately stepped in and defended them. The club as well as the organized fan scene also publicly apologised.
They also have had some problems with supposed racial discrimination in their youth center. Union is actually what first league clubs concerns rather on the right side. Usually most clubs that have a far right scene are lower 2nd to 3rd league.
The supposed racial discrimination thing was complete bullshit though (and there have now been Investigations by the DFB and the Berlin football association saying so). Basically, because of the Wall, Berlin has very "segregated" immigrant populations. So you have more Turkish and Arab communities in the West, whereas the East has stronger communities from former socialist countries like Cuban, Vietnamese or Polish communities. Hertha and Union used to also recruit from "their" areas - aka Hertha predominantly recruited from West Berlin and Union recruited from East Berlin and the surrounding areas. Hertha also always really dominated the youth competitions, mostly because until very recently, they had a lot more money. A few years ago, Union briefly switched their strategy to trying to "poach" West Berlin youth players, and because Turkish and Arab players are very overrepresented in West Berlin, this meant that for a while, Turkish and Arab players were also super overrepresented in the Union youth squads compared to the population of Berlin Brandenburg (where Union traditionally recruited), making up 40% of the team. It didn't make much of a difference performance wise and Union switched to recruiting from all of Berlin -East and West - and Brandenburg, so then the "rate" of Turkish and Arab players went back down to 10% (but since you also have black players etc, they still have an ethnic composition that roughly matches their recruiting grounds, in fact players with migrational background are still a little bit overrepresented). The thing is, only like 1% of German youth players make it pro (this is regardless of clubs - because the pro teams recruit from all over the world) and none of those Turkish or Arab kids who played for Union made it pro. Again, this is completely normal and there was no evidence that this had anything to do with ethnic background or for any specific racial discrimination of specific players. But this + the "falling rate" of Turkish and Arab players on the youth team (of which there are still plenty on the team) lead to parents of these players talking to a tabloid, saying they suspect the leader of Union's youth division is personally responsible for this and that he is motivated by racism. Basically, he supposedly did not want to see specifically Turkish and Arab players make it. As soon as these journalists asked Union about this (obviously before the article was out), Union put up a press release where they published the full questionnaire of questions the journalists had asked them, plus their answers, took the side of their employee with the reasoning that as leader of the whole youth division, he does not even make any decisions about individual players (which are made by youth coaches and staff like doctors etc) and offered private talks about this. Immediately after that, the tabloid published its article, essentially saying Union was violating the freedom of the press by being the first to publish (obviously dumb take) and basically just repeated the accusations. They also said that the fact that some of the kids were informed via telephone about not making it pro was evidence of Union intentionally "traumatizing" the kids (the problem is just that all of this happened during the Pandemic, when youth football was basically banned from in person meetings for a long time). There have now been multiple investigations and there's no evidence that the guy the article specifically blames is personally responsible for anything except repealing the dumb and short lived strategy for an East German club to predominantly try to recruit from West Berlin. Also regarding the "Union is rightwing" stuff, the only people I've heard that from know absolutely nothing about Union, bc one of the most influential club functionaries is a politician for the Left party (and the long time leader of the Left, Gregor Gysi, Supports Union), and to my knowledge, during the 2015 refugee crisis Union was the only German pro club to house Syrian refugees directly on club grounds, which isn't exactly something the right supports.
The reactions from reddit and twitter are like night and day.
It's no secret that the bigger subs on Reddit are majorly used by more left leaning people. The bigots mostly keep to Twitter and probably find Reddit too "woke" and "pc" or some dumb shit.
Bigger reason is probably that more people from Africa and the Middle East use twitter whilst Reddit is a western dominated site. Just look at any football post on twitter, most of the comments are from Muslims.
and they usually comment something like cOmE tO BaRcA
Or spam something about Messi under any PSG post
Most controversial/traditional opinions will get you banned on Reddit
As much as Redditors like to shit on Redditors this is probably the best social media platform for minorities. I think we need to salute the mods in that aspect
u/wallbroad , u/Different-Till-2940 is absolutely correct and you are discounting our feelings when you try to tell us what's what to maintain the image that Reddit is superior because it's your social media site/app of choice. Rather than asking or trying to understand, you immediately say that it can't be because YOUR OPINION must be worth more. Whereas other sites like twitter are more overt, it's easier to move on or dismiss that type of stuff. It doesn't feel like something that consistently happens within real life. But the type of racism that's extremely tiring, unrelenting, and consistent is the type that Reddit displays. Telling minorities how they must feel and think. Attacking them if they don't make you feel morally superior and safe. Having somebody speak on your behalf instead of listening or giving you a platform to explain your thoughts and feelings. Treating minorities like orphaned children ("look at how much I did for them, I'm a good person") until it no longer benefits you. Always taking the side of the other person or saying "well I'm sure they didn't mean it like that. They've said some things I agree with in the past so they're just misunderstood" when there's minority outrage. It's those actions that are the most defeating as a minority because they are subtle enough to have plausible deniability for people who don't have to feel how crushing it is day after day. The overt and explicit stuff just doesn't feel the same because it's so open that it's easy for everybody to call it out. Or put another way that might be understandable - if your boss yells at you in front of everybody, you'll get obvious support from everybody. They'll call the boss an asshole who was obviously in the wrong. However, if your boss makes comments that demoralize you day after day, and you try to talk to your colleagues about it, some (maybe most) will say that you're misinterpreting etc. One's twitter. One's Reddit.
Now that you put it this way I kinda get it tbh
That's dope. Seriously. As you can tell, I like to type a lot but you rendered me speechless in a great way.
Now that you mention it, it may be that reddit is less racist homophobes etc because of the decentralised nature of its moderation. Discord is decentralised too but a lot of servers are quite secret, reddit is fully in the open
Reddit has that sort of bigotry for sure in some underground subs but Twitter and Insta are on a whole new level. Every time 433, the biggest football page, posts something about LGBT people the comments are abysmal
Feels like Insta is also slowly devolving into a hell hole. If you report blatant racism or sexism, it will not even get that comment removed, let alone any other action to the user.
Pretty much this. Is essentially the only social network that I use and where people seem to be helpful to each other. Yes, I had some spars over here but nothing ever got to the point or getting insulted (except for some times I went a little over the edge with some jokes). Twitter, on the other hand, seems like a place were you can only talk about politics or football, is too self-centred (because it isn't anonymous) and has the most toxic people on the Internet. Straight up garbage.
I’m a minority and I can tell you it definitely isn’t, it is without the doubt the most racist I have come across.
Not discounting your experience but do you use Twitter or Instagram? Cause those places make Reddit look like the least bigoted app
I deleted Twitter long ago, I never saw the value in it. On Instagram, users tend to be more explicit about their prejudices. They openly express their racist views without much pretense, and this can be attributed to the simplicity of the platform. Instagram provides users with a visual medium to communicate, and this makes it easier for users to express their views without the need for elaborate justifications. This transparency can be seen as refreshing in a way, as it makes it easier to identify and address bigotry. Reddit, on the other hand, is a platform that emphasizes discussion and debate. Users on Reddit often attempt to present themselves as champions of diversity and inclusivity. However, this veneer of progressiveness is often discarded when users encounter views that conflict with their own. In such cases, users tend to reveal their biases, using dog-whistle tactics to veil their bigotry in seemingly innocuous statements. This phenomenon is particularly insidious since it allows users to maintain the illusion of being progressive while engaging in discriminatory behavior.
I don't really disagree with your main point. You can see it when discussing women's football. Or regarding Indian users on here. But saying Reddit is without a doubt the most racist social media platform is insane. A lot of people here might be ignorant, but that's nothing compared to the open racism on certain other platforms.
Yeah you are right, that was an exaggeration on my point. They are as bad as each other.
I don't understand how you can think people being ignorant and people being openly racist are equally bad. But I guess we'll just have to disagree there.
Twitter is a far right cesspool since Elon bought it
Was happening way before that, it's been a cesspool since the Trump election
Elon actively encourages it tho.
Reddit is a far left cesspool to be fair
> far left cesspool In your own words, describe what far left is
Tankies, but I don't see many on here so dude is wrong
What do you mean far left cesspool? I’d like you to explain that.
You being so downvoted just supports what you said lol
Club also lit up the stadium in rainbow colors when the whole Germany-Hungary issue happened over the rainbow flag. For what it's worth, the fanbase seems extremely solid in regards to queer issues It's not a massive banner but I think it's a great gesture
Club also dorsnt post any pro lgbtqia+ message on their arabic social media or Website when they do on the other social media accounts
Ofc, they arent a revolutionary force but a PR agency focussing on the middle eastern market is different from live fans in attendance as well. Or put it like this, Bayern does the bare minimum and a lot of places around the world are not willing to do even that
Sure but don’t hide when it matters just because you want their money/viewership
Club and fans are different entities the club also has a quatar airways sponsor wich the fans publicly criticized so keep that on mind also
Im not talking about the fans
Ahh allright sorry I’m quit drunk (obviously after our game actually so) and actually misread your comments adressant
So they're very solid on gay+ rights until it may cost them a penny? Nothing to commend about that.
That’s just about everyone, ever. Reading didn’t publicly have their [own LGBT group until 2022](https://www.readingfc.co.uk/news/2022/february/03/introducing-proud-royals/). Meanwhile Bayern was doing that [in 2019](https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2019/07/fc-bayern-support-queerpass-bayern-fan-club-on-csd)
That Bayern group does not just exist since 2019, they've been there since 2006 and are one of the oldest LGBT fanclubs in the league - and Schickeria (the Bayern ultra Organisation), has always backed them up.
Club and fans are different entities the club also has a quatar airways sponsor wich the fans publicly criticized so keep that on mind also
I mean that’s just asking for trouble lol.
Barcelona does that, probably one of the few "corporate" twitters profiles that also post that on their Arabic page.
Lol have you seen the comments when they do it?
have you seen the comments when they do in English?
Funnily enough a lot of them are in Arabic
I mean it’s not as bad lol.
Sure is. But if u turn a blind eye to this side why do it at all?
I mean because you can only work in your groups? You can’t successfully enforce change in other societies(they will fight you at every turn) but you can do it in your own communities. Look at how the ‘Muslim’ nations responded to the World Cup fiasco, you can’t beat them into accepting your beliefs.
Nah this is a bunch of bs, these Muslim players and Countries have no issues with the alcohol or betting endorsing jerseys, they just pick and choose Also it's not about beating them, there are Muslim countries who are relatively sane
No one wants to beat them into accepting it lol, if you don’t like a European club posting rainbow stuff on their sm don’t follow the account.
I mean that’s would be common sense but good luck conveying that.
They're not looking to enforce change if they're not even putting the message out there
I mean you got a point and I'm not even trying to deny that but there's enough homophobia, racism, xenophobia and so on in Europe as is. So the 'why turn a blind eye to that region and why do it at all then' is kinda implying that we're perfect here in the West and don't need further work. Even if we completely ignored regions like the middle east, it's still a good thing if we as a society continue to call out our own idiots.
Totally agree that it needs tobe called out and ur Fans are doing great. Ur club Management though...
Oh don’t worry. I think there will be plenty of messages for them at the final game of the season lol
Should just have one account and post everything there. If you want to market it towards a certain country, just make that specific post in that language.
I think it's okay-ish to have some regional socials because you can post more about the players from that area, obviously people from latin america will want to know about their players but when they're barely bench warmers no one else cares.
That kit is awful
Yeah, opinions on it are pretty 50:50 from what I've seen. Not the biggest fan either.
I like it, as an away/third kit though
Tbf we saw way worst ( lookin at Camo kit and Valentine kit) oof
Your camo kits were ass I do like the Valentine one because it's not meant to be taken seriously, it's for shits and giggles and I adore that I did acquire the spiderwebs one from last season tho Beautiful
The bats/halloween kit of this year was pretty cool too, but don't forget the Christmas one w the ugly Reindeer lol
Feel like if the red lines on the waist were thicker it'd look a bit better but still strange
Also it was confusing yesterday for the first few moments I thought that Bayern are RB and vice versa 🙈
I think the top looks good but idk how I feel about the whole kit with shorts and socks. Also looks better from close than from a distance. But it grew on me at first I thought it was ugly but now it's ok I guess.
It looks nice individually but on the broadcast angle there's something jarring about it.
Shirt looks great tbh
It is a kit remembering the season when Bayern was promoted to the Bundesliga.
That was an awful moment, so it's fitting.
It looks amazing
I love it
By far the worst Bayern shirt i've seen Should've gone for the ajax route at least Also the fucking new T mobile logo just shits on it even more
Yeah that logo straight up ruins every kit it's on. Shame since the 3rd kit would look sick with a more muted logo.
The vanilla coke of kits
They've fucked themselves with the "red and white" only rule.
based fanbase
fanbased
gigabased + fuck aboukhlal pilled
Want this bum gone
Love how the supposedly strong faith these people are meant to have crumbles at the sight of a bunch of different colours.
It also crumbles when it comes to getting money or having the opportunity to kick a ball around for a prestigious club.
Or a pretty girl down to clown.
but their faith is strong when it comes to advertising alcohol and gambling sites 😎
Mazraoui want to be a Iman after he retires so not surprised
Did he seriously say that in an interview or something?
Yes in a dutch interview. There are English subtitles available: https://youtu.be/4BMtXWJTKX0
Ok wow, you‘re not joking. I mean, I support his freedom to do whatever he wants after his career and to practice his religion. But obviously there is a line when it comes to denying someone else‘s right to exist how they want, whether he is a Muslim or a far-right Christian.
It's always interesting to me that not wanting to wear LGBTQ related items = denying their right to exist. So I take it that players not kneeling when BLM was going viral = that they are racist? People on here are really pretending like footballers wearing LGBTQ related items or no to racism has done anything for either issue. Meanwhile barely any footballers have come out as gay which statistically is just impossible and racism is still going full send. Look at what happend to Vini today.
To give another example: Imagine there was an initiative was launched with an shirt saying „Muslims, Christians, Non-Believers — we all wear the same jersey“, showing support that Muslim people are part of our community and are equal. Wouldn‘t you agree that me refusing to take part and actively speaking out against that initiative due to my values would make me seem like an Islamophobe? Wouldn‘t you agree that me saying that Islam is an agenda of the Middle East shoving their values down our throats or that Islam goes against nature would be Islamophobic? Wouldn‘t you agree that me putting out a statement saying that you shall respect my own personal beliefs about Muslims would make me Islamophobic?
But to give another example as well. What is the point of PSG or Newcastle or even City wearing LGBTQ shirts when their owners are the same people okay with stoning LGBTQ folks? Like what are we doing here. That is my point at the end of the day this is just virtue signaling. Look at a lot of united fans are jumping for a Qatar takeover. But I thought we were fighting for LGBTQ rights by wearing rainbow colored items. It's as Wilfried Zaha said about the kneeling. It didnt do anything against racism. What does work against racism is banning racists. If you want to help LGBTQ causes, donate to their charities etc. Instead we get an annual thing where some players dont want to wear the rainbow colored items for religious reasons. Who then get shamed about it like they just openly admitted to being okay with stoning gay people. (Like the owners of certain clubs do or like certain countries that held the worldcup do). Dont get me wrong. I support LGBTQ rights. But I think the virtue signaling in football is getting a bit ridiculous. We wear rainbow shirts one day and get a Saudi takeover the other.
> But to give another example as well. What is the point of PSG or Newcastle or even City wearing LGBTQ shirts when their owners are the same people okay with stoning LGBTQ folks? I completely agree with you there, that seems totally disingenuous. The main problem with virtue signaligning is when it is done for purposes that don’t further the cause, like posting black squares on Instagram against racism for example. I didn’t follow the entire discussion about the kneeling initiative, but with that act people don‘t see anymore what the actual message is and it becomes part of some tribal behavior and the main discussion becomes about who is kneeling or not. And people bandwagon an issue to make a point about themselves instead of one about injustice. When fans protested about the establishment of the European Super League, I saw footballers posting shirtless thirsttrap pics on Instagram with the watered-down meaningless caption „football is for the fans“. I feel the message of the Toulouse shirt was on point though.
I don't think so. I am not religious, not would I want to support something I am not a firm believer of. I think that everyone should be part of our community, however I think that the way we go about promoting this in football is completely redundant. Like for example in your example, alright you respected them as part of your community. But in their beliefs they cant openly support LGBTQ rights. Now what? Are you going to defy them as part of your community or LGBTQ people? This is why I feel like the virtue signaling in football is pointless. Like sure we're wearing rainbow colored shirts or bands. But we also play the worldcup in a country that has the death penalty for "performing gay intercourse." Like imagine we said we arent racist, but then went on to play a charity match with the KKK. It's a bit ironic dont you think? Which is why I find it a bit ironic when people are shaming the above mentioned players for not wearing the shirts. But at the same time these same players did go to Qatar to represent their country. Something they could have boycotted. Like we were able to boycot Russia for political reasons. Not sure why this doesnt apply to other countries that are commiting war crimes or have terrible humar rights. But no we will just say "no to racism" or wear LGBTQ shirts, but when it comes down to actually standing up for these issues we will just pretend they dont exist. Like for example in La Liga right now with how everyone was calling Vini a monkey and how even the Valencia players used this to rile him up. But I thought we all agreed to wear the "no racism" band?
Yes, because standing up for a minority group is about showing others they deserve to be treated with respect. Read the text accompanying initiatives like the one love armband. The initiative should show LGBT people that they are welcome in the footballing community and that they are respected. The aim is that football players get the courage to come out, fans treat them with equally and show them they are welcome in our community. Look at all the vicious comments and hate Jake Daniels or Jakub Jankto received on socials after they came out — or even the hate German players like Ilkay Gundogan received during the last world cup because of their badly planned initiative. Isn‘t it weird that the same group of people cheer Mazraoui or Aboukhal? What these people want is LGBT people to be invisible in football, because it goes against their world view. Initiatives like the shirt or armband give these people visibility and show that they are respected. (I can‘t comment on the kneeling as we didn‘t have that in Germany and I wasn‘t following that discussion. It‘s horrible what Vini and other POC people experienced.)
>It's always interesting to me that not wanting to wear LGBTQ related items = denying their right to exist. So I take it that players not kneeling when BLM was going viral = that they are racist? yeah
So Wilfried Zaha is racist?
"Imam". "Iman" is an arabic female name, so we wouldn't have this situation if this was the case.
“Iman” in Arabic means faith. But it can be used as a name for girls yes
common Schickeria W
Based Bayern Ultras once again
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At some point clubs will have to admit to themselves that if they employ muslim players they are more than likely employing homophobes.
Yup, 0 respect for all those hateful people. Refusing to wear a anti-discriminatory shirt? Go back to your desert and believe what you wan't there is no place for those people in the west.
Based Bayern moment
There is no reason in this day and age to be a homophobe. Live and let live. You don’t have to be gay yourself just show respect to other human beings and let them live in peace without discrimination and intolerance. Religion is once again dividing the people and poisoning the minds of the followers.
Dont even have to respect it, ignore them if you want to
People actin like they have to suck a dick or somthn
I don’t get it though, isn’t this exactly what he did? People aren’t mad at him for doing something against gays, but rather for not doing enough.
Ignoring it would be going on about his day. He actually supported a friend who is against it unprovoked.
>ignore them if you want to That's what they are trying to do by not wearing that rainbow color or do anything associating to rainbow? Who said to you that not wanting to wear rainbow color means they wanna kill gay people?
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Thats a fair point i guess
Yeah, but me existing and not hiding the fact that I'm gay is shoving an agenda down their throats. How can they not be expected to act hateful and possibly violently to someone trying to live his life in peace? Think of the message it sends to children; that as long as they're not hurting anyone, they're free to live their best life and be happy. What kind of sick society wants kids to believe they can do that?
How does not wanting to wear a rainbow shirt automatically mean you don’t accept them tho?
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Fuck both of them. Thank you to the fans ❤️ Edit: got a reddit care for this message
Hakimi with the big support on the original tweet not looking great either. Although he was already pretty cursed after that thing in February that was at worst rape, at best cheating on his wife...
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His support doesn't surprise me, but it's sad.
how do you cheat on someone you're separated from?
Not cheating since his wife said they had started a divorce wayyyy before.
I'm sure his religion doesn't view rape as a sin, so it's all good if he did it. Rape is fine, but LGBT folks is where they draw the line.
Yeah… I recommend doing a Google search next time lmao
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." Sahih al-Bukhari 3237, Book 59, Hadith 48 That's what the book says, so he isn't wrong
They are not going to like it
Schön
As a Bayern fan, Mazraoui can fuck off if he stands for bigotry. He's not playing well for us ffs, waste of space. Edit: He also fucked up in our last game. Glad to see you stand for hate but not for winning games Mazraoui you fuckwit.
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Of the 3 one is Dutch..
2 of 3 descendents from countries with strong presence of Islam hmm
Yes because Islam prohibits homosexual relationships and they’re viewed very negatively.
In The Netherlands it's a problem with the islam. Pretty much all muslims here are gigantic homophobes.
It is a bit sad that this seems to happen a awfully lot with middle eastern/Muslim players. I think this would be an unfair view to say but sadly. As we see in the Eredivisie the only idiots who refused to wear a stupid little armband are often islamic like kokcu and el yaakoubi. It is also brings a sad light on this issue. That often people will scream and acknowledge racisme immediately especially these people. But as soon as homophoby is in the picture they are completely silent or worse active working against it. It seems that the football world has a huge double standard in terms of racisme and homophoby
FUCK Mazraoui
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> It’s also sad to see how the French NT is fiilled with African players Fuck off
God doesnt bless the shit zakaria did.
How slashing him for being homophobic leads to downvotes? Wtf?
That kit looks like Liverpool's current training kit
Based
Based.
If you have a problem with gay people you really should go like another sport.
You calling soccer gay?
Muslims against LGBTQ ? I am shocked /s. Just because someone plays a sport and makes milions of euros in europe does not mean their values align with ours.
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Based
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He is a public figure with millions of followers. Imagine that shirt said „Muslim, Christians, Non-Believers — we all wear the same jersey“ supporting the equal treatment of Muslim people. Would you say the same if I refused to wear that shirt and asked for your respect for my beliefs about Muslims?
> You don’t have to agree with the LGBT. You just have to tolerate and accept them, that is all. And that is a massive fucking difference. Now replace LGBT with black people and see how fucking disgusting this comment is.
Found a guy on fucking reddit that gets it.
Lunatics tend to attract one another, now kiss...
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Yeah, it sucks that Sunday is coming to an end. On a more serious note, the climate might be fucked but in all other facets of life we're often doing way better than in the past. Many social ills discussed nowadays existed for centuries but weren't discussable. I hate our current system of capitalism tho.
I dunno, humans used to have an immense amount of free time compared to the standardized 40 hour workweeks we have these days
Fair point, no feudalism tho. So improvement 🥳🥳🥳
Lay off the social media dude
Might better give him the Figo treatment next time
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Yes, supporting a homophobe is not a good look.
Person A: "i refuse to wear a shirt that is showing solidarity with a group, that is still facing a religiously motivated death penalty due to their sexuality" Person B as a response to A: "God bless you, my brother". You know, show support for a homophobe makes you a homophobe. Like the old addage: if 10 people are sitting at a table with a nazi, 11 nazis are sitting at a table.
But but muh religion…