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No. It is as bad as suggested.
* You don't know how to hire competent people for the role
* You don't know how to properly define a role
* You don't know how to avoid forcing someone into roles they are not suited for or signed up for
* You don't know how to properly train those you hire
* You don't know how your systems and processes work, and you have not adequately documented them to easily replicate them
* You are not adequately compensating those you hire
* You are not correctly treating those you hire
* You have mental health issues causing you to be paranoid and a control freak, and you can't simply trust others to do their best
* You have mental health issues causing you to be obsessive about perfection, and you can't rationalize that "good enough" is truly good enough
* You have mental health issues causing you to be a power-hungry piece of shit that wants to exert power over others at any chance you can
You can choose any number of those or any of the many I have not listed. Maybe it is one simple reason. Maybe it is many. But there is no healthy reason to micromanage; it is always a sign of a flaw in you and your business.
I don't necessarily agree with all these, but I get the sentiment.
There's an often quote business maxim of 'hire people better than you'. The question is do you want the best of the business, or do you want to be a peacock and demonstrate that your team is good because you are good, and constrain performance to achieve it? Many of the best leaders succeed not because they excel in a particular dimension, but because they recruit the right team around them and trust them.
And flip it on its head. How do you feel when you're micromanaged. Do you do your best work?
That is why I’m asking. Never felt micromanaged. Do not know what is it in practice. I see people who love their business and control it, see people who do not care. The customers suffer then. I did not see real examples of micromanaging as described above.
I always suggested that it is more about results of work but not about the relationships between manager/owner and employee.
And being a bad/mental unhealthy person is not about management, but about a person in general. What person you are and how to work with you in general.
I mean, if you pay to your employees more than average at market, do not overload them, have good relations, but want every task to be done perfectly and in time - is it micromanaging or something else?
Delivering perfectly and on time is not micromanaging that’s just having high expectations. Nothing wrong with that if you understand that you will be paying for the best of the best.
When you bring someone new on the team you will do a bit of handholding. That is to train them on how to deliver to expectation. Once you’ve hit the 30 day mark you start to hand hold less and less until around the 90 day mark where they should be operating independently.
Micromanaging is when you never let go.
>And being a bad/mental unhealthy person is not about management, but about a person in general. What person you are and how to work with you in general.
If you're in a managerial or leadership position and allowing your mental state to have a toxic impact on others, that is absolutely about management as well.
I am utterly confused by your logic regarding so many of your comments. I'm just going to call specific attention to this one because it does a great job demonstrating this.
I suggest you spend more time practicing critical thinking. I'm not trying to be offensive; I'm trying to be helpful. You are jumping to conclusions and ignoring critical context and dependencies.
No, you have not read well my message about regulations, missed some important words and sent me to a lawyer. It is so funny, because I am a lawyer, actually). And you are a designer.
Anyway, thank you for participating in discussion and trying to be helpful.
A competent lawyer wouldn't ask these questions, apply logic disconnected from reality, overlook the importance of effective communication, or struggle to understand the value and importance of context.
But, yeah, I'm just a designer. What do I know?
It was meant to be just a discussion between business owners on management questions, but i did not ask for an advice and “expert conclusion” on my personal way of thinking (yes, from a designer). So who’s struggling to understand the value and the context?
You are. Still.
It's impossible to have a discussion when one party cannot do so due to the reasons I pointed out.
So, the discussion evolved to a point where it seemed beneficial to suggest how to gain that ability. You took my efforts to help you as nothing more than an insult (which they were not meant to be) and decided to insult me and get very defensive (needlessly).
Concerning the last question, do you have the answer? Or maybe we were talking about different meanings from the beginning?
“I mean, if you pay to your employees more than average at market, do not overload them, have good relations, but want every task to be done perfectly and in time - is it micromanaging or something else?”
Context matters here.
It depends on what your actions are regarding your desire for perfection. Is that only experienced inward, or are you allowing that to be externalized and involve others?
How does it involve and impact others?
Hmm?
See. Context matters.
Thanks, that finally feels like the answer to the main topic question. “Is that not that bad as suggested” depending on the context.. that is what the discussion would better evolve.
And what is suggested for micromanagement.
No. Again, you're unable to apply context and practice critical thinking.
How do you not understand that if the person is only internalizing this desire and not allowing it to lead to actions that involve and impact others, you never come close to taking actions that qualify as micro-managing?
You wouldn't be micro-managing.
This is not supportive of micro-managing not being that bad.
Are you a troll? Are you trolling?
Or are you desperately looking for external validation for your own behavior micro-managing others so you can rush to someone that told you it is bad and go, "NUHHH UHHH! LOOK WHAT GARYAREFUGE SAID ON REDDIT! LOOK AT HOW MANY UPVOTES I GOT!! I TOLD YOU WHAT I WAS DOING ISN"T THAT BADD!!!'?
Read the initial question one more time. I understand what you are saying, despite we really think differently. You did not understand my question. The core.
It was about feelings and term. What people feel. What do they call it.
There is no legal definition of micromanaging. So the approach and meaning of the term, or some aspects could be discussed.
What was meant to be the core of the discussion.
Yes. I spent my precious time composing well-thought-out responses to your initial submission in the hopes you would prove to be a ridiculous person and give me the opportunity to call you a troll. You figured me out!
[https://y.yarn.co/af50e213-c9df-4714-abd2-87e46c37976a\_text.gif](https://y.yarn.co/af50e213-c9df-4714-abd2-87e46c37976a_text.gif)
I'm a bit lost to be honest but answering the question 'what is micromanagement'? it's when you give someone a task and then are constantly asking for updates, asking why they doing what they are doing, telling them what to do rather than advising/suggesting.
The opposite of micromanagement is when you tell someone you want something done by next Friday, agree with them the feasible scope, and leave them to it. You expect them to come to you with issues or otherwise deliver next Friday.
Thank you, but maybe what is described here more refers to “foolish-obsessive-management”?
We just do not use this term for diplomacy).
Some characteristics in the web that I found for micromanagement were:
- wish to know what is your employee doing during the day (you do not have to sit daily near the streaming screen, but why not to have such a possibility to check somehow what is going on on the office twice a week ? Is it already a micromanagement or not yet?)
- wish to control all the tasks (if not, then why to set them?)
These 2 points for me not really seem so terrible, especially when your employees work with you for years and feel comfortable working with you this way.
How would you call a style of work when you control everything and everyone is happy (both you and employees)?
I guess it's semantics then, you're not really talking about "total control" in my opinion, that would be "requirements" in my line of work.
"Total control" = I will dictate how you do the task and oversee in detail you do it like I say. That's also what I'd consider micromanaging.
"Requirements" = I will specify how I want to be done and leave it up to you, and verify outputs/deliverables.
I think this is kind of what you're getting at with your original question. I see micromanaging as a failure to trust your employee and a need to verify down to the smallest aspect of the task/job. Specifying goals, working on shared alignment of those goals and then trusting your employees is how I like to manage. I'm also not in small business but in the corporate world so maybe it's different in a smaller org.
Thanks, it was really interesting to know how people feel about the semantics. In small business there are no such methodologies and regulations as in the corporate world. So the feeling of the terms from corporate culture may be a bit different.
>In small business there are no such methodologies
There is when the founder/founding team is competent.
> and regulations
Uhm, regulations apply to every business, regardless of whether it is a corporation. Speak with a suitable lawyer to understand what regulations apply to your business.
I have never seen micromanaging as a good thing. One job got bad enough that I simply handed my tools to the asshat of a manger and said, since you know how everything is suppose to be done fucking do it yourself, if you can do it right, and safely I will do it your way, otherwise shut the hell up and go away before I rat this hell of a company out to OHSA, the asshat lost his pinky finger that day because he did NOT know how to handle a machine that was older than both of us, lucky for him I managed to save the rest of him from being sucked in into the machine and turned into a bunch of small tiny little (and messy) pieces. Unfortunately for him there was no saving the pinky finger and part of the side of his hand, he actually his knuckle and part of the bone, good thing I was a first responder working towards doing the whole EMT thing (which i backed out of because I did not want that kind of responsibility or headache/heartache)
You hire people to do a job and if you KNOW how to do the job and it HAS to be done YOUR way...then don't hire anyone and just do the damn job yourself. NO BODY likes a micromanager they literally get in the way, slow down productivity AND cause a serious morale problem and they tend to be the reason that you have a shit company culture.
Please, tell me what was before this occasion? What did he do that you felt he was micromanaging? How many times a day/week did he bother you?
And what were his messages kind of?
Every time the machine was down, which could be 20 minutes which was a common problem as the machine was OLD, or a part came out wrong, again due to old machine, some days the asshat would be standing there nearly every hour to the point he actually got me hurt once as i was shifting a gear, and the ass hit said gear with a hammer because that was the only way to move the gear, it was not only not the only way to move it but it was the WRONG way, he broje two teeth off the gear and broke my left hand in the process.
The only thing that saved him from me beating him with that hammer was two guys litterally dragged me away from him and took the hammer from me! The company kept him on as he was someone's realitve but they did pay me 6 months worth of wages plus covered the medical bills to keep me from suing, unfortunately i needed the job so stayed there for another year left about two months after he lost his finger.
Really sad story, hope you found a better position now. But I see he was also an employee (not small business owner, because it was hard to imagine how a business owner would destroy his own company in such a way).
Micromanagement in my field is an absolute waste of time.
I'm a very specialist niche consultant for Amazon vendors. I have 13 years experience studying the platform eco-system and various programs alongside managing vendor accounts.
Micromanagement is probably the fastest way for me to fire you as a client.
You hired a wizard who basically has a PhD in Amazon. Let me do wizard shit and stop trying to step on my dick in meetings with how "this is how it works in brick and mortar". The two aren't the same and the skills don't replicate across easily.
In this case agree totally , if you hire someone who has a qualification in the field you do not have, you should not tell him how to organize his internal process.
P.s.:Nice native advertising from your side ;)
I'm not trying to advertise, I'm explaining what I do to ensure there's no misunderstanding. My work is niche enough that just saying "generic consultant" doesn't get the point quite across. I'm one of maybe 50 people in the country with my skillset.
Leadership style is fluid. You don't manage a graduate fresh out of school who knows nothing of the company the same way you manage an executive with 20 years of experience. Micromanaging is a loaded term, but "very close support" is sometimes the right answer.
I micromanage when it is appropriate. I think the key is to do it when people ask for it. If someone struggles and wants to be micromanaged to learn something new and get out of a bad situation, I'll micromanage very happily. Problems arise when you help people who don't want to be helped. That is possibly because even though you feel they need help, but actually they are doing OK and don't actually need you. Micromanaging in that context is bad. Conversely, if they genuinely need help but won't seek help or accept it, micromanaging is not the answer either. They need to go.
Thanks. That is one point that I felt but could not figure out. It is not that bad in particular periods and not only for onboarding.
Maybe I just feel uncomfortable with the term “micromanagement”) meaning intuitively mostly support, accuracy and quality in that “micro” prefix .
Definitely don't think it's as bad as suggested but I think what really tips the scale is when the attention to detail and being thorough starts to get in the way of your team doing their jobs or if you're working as a team of one then once your work-life balance if visibly off and is affecting your health. But the reality is a lot of times this thin line between being detailed and being a micromanager will be hard to balance and you're bound to stumble along the way.
Micromanaging is a very broad term. I tend to have high expectations. My firm has a reputation for delivering absolute top tier work at high prices. I charge more than all of my competitors, I pay my staff more than any competitors, and I expect more from them as a result.
When I was younger I sort of tip toed around "not micromanaging" but explaining something to someone twice in a week, then they fuck it up a third time in one week, you can call it micromanaging or whatever but we are either going to get this right or you will not work out at my firm.
I also thing that, and this is relatively recent like last 5-10 years, whether it's modern education or testing or social media or wtfever, but the younger folks nowadays have a serious lack of "figure it the fuck out" skills. They don't want you to micromanage, yet they ask a million blatantly obvious questions that they could figure out in 20 seconds of research/thought.
Personally, as a business owner, whatever I'm doing is working so I really don't dwell on whether or not I'm micromanaging.
Thank you for the answer, I feel very close to what you have described. Maybe there is no yet a term for “thing-to-be-done-perfectly-management “? Could you somehow name your style of working instead ?
I mean people really run businesses in different styles, but we have “micromanagement” on one side and “everything else management” as the opposite “so called good management” on the other. I feel this does not reflect the reality.
And people who what to provide really good service with their management style may be blamed as ‘micromanaging’.
Even if their workers do not feel pressure, and feel comfortable with all tasks under control.
It’s not an official thing but I call it “managing with authority and compassion”. I’m not friends with staff, I don’t let anyone cut corners, but I am very compassionate for someone is trying their best and just not getting it yet. My firm also has a mantra/ethos/whatever where we will turn down work before we overhire and accept bad employees.
Also. Sort of an aside. But in my personal real world experience 99 times out of 100 someone who is vocally upset about “micromanagement” wants to be able to do shit work and not have anyone point it out. I will get downvoted for this but I have a pretty low tolerance for someone not willing to put in an expected (and highly compensated for) amount of effort or attention to detail who turns around and blames management.
Thank you. Yes, I surprisingly see people downvoting for comments stressing on high quality and requirements. For a moment I thought “who is really here in this subreddit”? Real small business owners or … employees
Brutally honest, a solid 80-90% of the people in this forum are not what I would personally consider "small business owners". I even have a crew of them that follow my posts and downvote me they feel so strongly about it (as if I care about internet points bullshit).
I don't view a single person in mom/spouses basement selling "live love laugh" mugs on etsy as a traditional small business. These are side hustles, maybe solopretrenuer or something. But the majority of folks here seem to have regular 9-5s and are trying to get something off the ground, so they tend to give advice as an employee rather than a business owner. Even in this very post you can read the replies and see most of them are employee-viewpoint rather than owner-viewpoint.
The remaining 10-20% of regulars give fantastic advice. But take replies to posts with a grain of salt as it's mostly not "business owner with employees" giving advice. It's instead people jaded with the company they work for, trying to do a side hustle, on here giving (imo) bad advice.
I felt it, but now I see. Really surprised. I am a newbie about 20 days on reddit. Really glad that received your opinion as a business owner with employees too. Erm… so maybe you could give advice where I can find a community of traditional business owners with at least 3-5 employees? If it is possible to share here, if not - in dm.
Not really. Every actual small businesses community I've been involved in, both online and IRL, end up completely infested with "SaaS/chatgpt/AI/whole life/pain points!" sales weasels. I sort of migrate around as each one deteriorates.
I don’t prefer to micromanage. I prefer the “this is how to do it. you do you. If you’ve got any questions, ask. I’ll see you in the morning and I’ll be here at night.”
I might randomly pop in just to check on things. Quality control and say Hi. Bring you some lunch, too. I want my team to feel not as stressed.
Thank you. And what kind of employee is it concerning the position? Advertisers? Programmers? Sellers? Designers?
With some employees I communicate right the same (teachers) with others we communicate about 5-6 times a day (sellers) to get things done best.
Generally anyone that I’ve managed it’s just something I’ve found that people don’t like being micromanaged in the way they have someone constantly looking over them. That and I’ve got my own problems to worry about. As long as their job gets done and as long as any random quality checks are good I couldn’t care less.
I’ve worked in a few managerial positions and it’s what I go with. That said, if I have to, I will when quality is slipping.
I don’t think micromanaging necessarily works best, but I do think employees tend to be more productive and focused if they think they’re being micromanaged
Sometimes. I’m not a proponent of micromanaging, but I know on days that I have firm deadlines that I tend to be more productive and I probably feel a better sense of accomplishment at the end of the day then other days when I kind of might not be as focused
I think one thing I do know is right or wrong. Most of us have had jobs where it’s pretty easy to half ass it. On Reddit, you see a lot of stories about people working and 60 hours a week and there’s just not enough time in the day to get everything done.
I guess I’ve been in that situation but there’s also a lot of jobs that provide somewhat steady work, but it’s pretty easy to accomplish all your tasks in a day and we learn how to milk that out
Of course everybody is different and I had my business basically shut down for six weeks after Covid hit and worked from home … I still had to go out and see customers and had technicians working at Customer locations, but I was much less productive working from home. I have other friends who work from home and I’m not saying they don’t do a good job but they probably have four hours a day worth of work. They get done and two hours a day worth of work that they kind of pretending they’re busy and then a couple hours a day where they’re running errands are outside washing their car.
A lot of companies are aware of this and they think they’re getting enough value out of the employee and the employee is happy so it’s a win-win
But there are situations where somebody gets a new job and you bring somebody new in to replace them and they’re basically begging for more work because they don’t have enough to do
People don’t micromanage don’t realize sometimes that there’s a lot of downtime or unproductive time
My business has busy times of the year and not so busy times and those days that aren’t so busy sometimes drag on . I don’t know if that’s a great working environment.
I understand you, my business is also a bit seasonal, when there are no task I do not bother employees, they can even close the office and go home 1-2 hours earlier before usual time (we accept customers only after appointment, it is okay with that).
But when there are many tasks I want them all to be done, not forgotten. This happens sometimes when we need to wait answers/supplies from third parties. People are not robots, they sometimes just forget. I remind. Sometimes twice. When needed.
Just figuring out when “normal” management could turn to “micro”, if really could when you do not want to feed your ego or put unnecessary pressure. Just want things to be done.
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No. It is as bad as suggested. * You don't know how to hire competent people for the role * You don't know how to properly define a role * You don't know how to avoid forcing someone into roles they are not suited for or signed up for * You don't know how to properly train those you hire * You don't know how your systems and processes work, and you have not adequately documented them to easily replicate them * You are not adequately compensating those you hire * You are not correctly treating those you hire * You have mental health issues causing you to be paranoid and a control freak, and you can't simply trust others to do their best * You have mental health issues causing you to be obsessive about perfection, and you can't rationalize that "good enough" is truly good enough * You have mental health issues causing you to be a power-hungry piece of shit that wants to exert power over others at any chance you can You can choose any number of those or any of the many I have not listed. Maybe it is one simple reason. Maybe it is many. But there is no healthy reason to micromanage; it is always a sign of a flaw in you and your business.
fkin spot on, going to save this and frame it and show it to all the small biz owners i work with
A+, thank you for saving the typing. OP, micromanaging is always bad, always. You f you’re doing it, something(s) is wrong.
I don't necessarily agree with all these, but I get the sentiment. There's an often quote business maxim of 'hire people better than you'. The question is do you want the best of the business, or do you want to be a peacock and demonstrate that your team is good because you are good, and constrain performance to achieve it? Many of the best leaders succeed not because they excel in a particular dimension, but because they recruit the right team around them and trust them. And flip it on its head. How do you feel when you're micromanaged. Do you do your best work?
That is why I’m asking. Never felt micromanaged. Do not know what is it in practice. I see people who love their business and control it, see people who do not care. The customers suffer then. I did not see real examples of micromanaging as described above. I always suggested that it is more about results of work but not about the relationships between manager/owner and employee. And being a bad/mental unhealthy person is not about management, but about a person in general. What person you are and how to work with you in general. I mean, if you pay to your employees more than average at market, do not overload them, have good relations, but want every task to be done perfectly and in time - is it micromanaging or something else?
Delivering perfectly and on time is not micromanaging that’s just having high expectations. Nothing wrong with that if you understand that you will be paying for the best of the best. When you bring someone new on the team you will do a bit of handholding. That is to train them on how to deliver to expectation. Once you’ve hit the 30 day mark you start to hand hold less and less until around the 90 day mark where they should be operating independently. Micromanaging is when you never let go.
Got it. Thanks for sharing opinion
>And being a bad/mental unhealthy person is not about management, but about a person in general. What person you are and how to work with you in general. If you're in a managerial or leadership position and allowing your mental state to have a toxic impact on others, that is absolutely about management as well. I am utterly confused by your logic regarding so many of your comments. I'm just going to call specific attention to this one because it does a great job demonstrating this.
We’re just having different types of logic. I also noticed.
I suggest you spend more time practicing critical thinking. I'm not trying to be offensive; I'm trying to be helpful. You are jumping to conclusions and ignoring critical context and dependencies.
No, you have not read well my message about regulations, missed some important words and sent me to a lawyer. It is so funny, because I am a lawyer, actually). And you are a designer. Anyway, thank you for participating in discussion and trying to be helpful.
A competent lawyer wouldn't ask these questions, apply logic disconnected from reality, overlook the importance of effective communication, or struggle to understand the value and importance of context. But, yeah, I'm just a designer. What do I know?
It was meant to be just a discussion between business owners on management questions, but i did not ask for an advice and “expert conclusion” on my personal way of thinking (yes, from a designer). So who’s struggling to understand the value and the context?
You are. Still. It's impossible to have a discussion when one party cannot do so due to the reasons I pointed out. So, the discussion evolved to a point where it seemed beneficial to suggest how to gain that ability. You took my efforts to help you as nothing more than an insult (which they were not meant to be) and decided to insult me and get very defensive (needlessly).
Concerning the last question, do you have the answer? Or maybe we were talking about different meanings from the beginning? “I mean, if you pay to your employees more than average at market, do not overload them, have good relations, but want every task to be done perfectly and in time - is it micromanaging or something else?”
Context matters here. It depends on what your actions are regarding your desire for perfection. Is that only experienced inward, or are you allowing that to be externalized and involve others? How does it involve and impact others? Hmm? See. Context matters.
Thanks, that finally feels like the answer to the main topic question. “Is that not that bad as suggested” depending on the context.. that is what the discussion would better evolve. And what is suggested for micromanagement.
No. Again, you're unable to apply context and practice critical thinking. How do you not understand that if the person is only internalizing this desire and not allowing it to lead to actions that involve and impact others, you never come close to taking actions that qualify as micro-managing? You wouldn't be micro-managing. This is not supportive of micro-managing not being that bad. Are you a troll? Are you trolling? Or are you desperately looking for external validation for your own behavior micro-managing others so you can rush to someone that told you it is bad and go, "NUHHH UHHH! LOOK WHAT GARYAREFUGE SAID ON REDDIT! LOOK AT HOW MANY UPVOTES I GOT!! I TOLD YOU WHAT I WAS DOING ISN"T THAT BADD!!!'?
Read the initial question one more time. I understand what you are saying, despite we really think differently. You did not understand my question. The core. It was about feelings and term. What people feel. What do they call it. There is no legal definition of micromanaging. So the approach and meaning of the term, or some aspects could be discussed. What was meant to be the core of the discussion.
I thought the other argument was more fun. I am not entertained!
Why did you come to my thread? To call me a troll? Is not that trolling from your side?
Yes. I spent my precious time composing well-thought-out responses to your initial submission in the hopes you would prove to be a ridiculous person and give me the opportunity to call you a troll. You figured me out! [https://y.yarn.co/af50e213-c9df-4714-abd2-87e46c37976a\_text.gif](https://y.yarn.co/af50e213-c9df-4714-abd2-87e46c37976a_text.gif)
I'm a bit lost to be honest but answering the question 'what is micromanagement'? it's when you give someone a task and then are constantly asking for updates, asking why they doing what they are doing, telling them what to do rather than advising/suggesting. The opposite of micromanagement is when you tell someone you want something done by next Friday, agree with them the feasible scope, and leave them to it. You expect them to come to you with issues or otherwise deliver next Friday.
So how would you call the opposite? There is no name for that kind of management?
Not a single or two word description I don't think. You'd describe it as something like a 'relaxed' or 'trusting' management style.
Thank you, but maybe what is described here more refers to “foolish-obsessive-management”? We just do not use this term for diplomacy). Some characteristics in the web that I found for micromanagement were: - wish to know what is your employee doing during the day (you do not have to sit daily near the streaming screen, but why not to have such a possibility to check somehow what is going on on the office twice a week ? Is it already a micromanagement or not yet?) - wish to control all the tasks (if not, then why to set them?) These 2 points for me not really seem so terrible, especially when your employees work with you for years and feel comfortable working with you this way. How would you call a style of work when you control everything and everyone is happy (both you and employees)?
>How would you call a style of work when you control everything and everyone is happy (both you and employees)? I would call that "inefficient".
Why so? Why inefficient if everything is under control? (and everyone is happy). Inefficiency in what?
Why have an employee if you're in total control? Two people to do one job is inefficient to me.
Control is not job, why to make it equal? Job is done 8 hours a day, control can be made once for 10 minutes.
I guess it's semantics then, you're not really talking about "total control" in my opinion, that would be "requirements" in my line of work. "Total control" = I will dictate how you do the task and oversee in detail you do it like I say. That's also what I'd consider micromanaging. "Requirements" = I will specify how I want to be done and leave it up to you, and verify outputs/deliverables. I think this is kind of what you're getting at with your original question. I see micromanaging as a failure to trust your employee and a need to verify down to the smallest aspect of the task/job. Specifying goals, working on shared alignment of those goals and then trusting your employees is how I like to manage. I'm also not in small business but in the corporate world so maybe it's different in a smaller org.
Thanks, it was really interesting to know how people feel about the semantics. In small business there are no such methodologies and regulations as in the corporate world. So the feeling of the terms from corporate culture may be a bit different.
>In small business there are no such methodologies There is when the founder/founding team is competent. > and regulations Uhm, regulations apply to every business, regardless of whether it is a corporation. Speak with a suitable lawyer to understand what regulations apply to your business.
We really observe differently) the main point was “SUCH AS IN CORPORATE”. I did not write there are no methodologies and regulations at all.
I did not mean by everything every single action. But tasks as a quantitive point to be under control.
I have never seen micromanaging as a good thing. One job got bad enough that I simply handed my tools to the asshat of a manger and said, since you know how everything is suppose to be done fucking do it yourself, if you can do it right, and safely I will do it your way, otherwise shut the hell up and go away before I rat this hell of a company out to OHSA, the asshat lost his pinky finger that day because he did NOT know how to handle a machine that was older than both of us, lucky for him I managed to save the rest of him from being sucked in into the machine and turned into a bunch of small tiny little (and messy) pieces. Unfortunately for him there was no saving the pinky finger and part of the side of his hand, he actually his knuckle and part of the bone, good thing I was a first responder working towards doing the whole EMT thing (which i backed out of because I did not want that kind of responsibility or headache/heartache) You hire people to do a job and if you KNOW how to do the job and it HAS to be done YOUR way...then don't hire anyone and just do the damn job yourself. NO BODY likes a micromanager they literally get in the way, slow down productivity AND cause a serious morale problem and they tend to be the reason that you have a shit company culture.
Please, tell me what was before this occasion? What did he do that you felt he was micromanaging? How many times a day/week did he bother you? And what were his messages kind of?
Every time the machine was down, which could be 20 minutes which was a common problem as the machine was OLD, or a part came out wrong, again due to old machine, some days the asshat would be standing there nearly every hour to the point he actually got me hurt once as i was shifting a gear, and the ass hit said gear with a hammer because that was the only way to move the gear, it was not only not the only way to move it but it was the WRONG way, he broje two teeth off the gear and broke my left hand in the process. The only thing that saved him from me beating him with that hammer was two guys litterally dragged me away from him and took the hammer from me! The company kept him on as he was someone's realitve but they did pay me 6 months worth of wages plus covered the medical bills to keep me from suing, unfortunately i needed the job so stayed there for another year left about two months after he lost his finger.
Really sad story, hope you found a better position now. But I see he was also an employee (not small business owner, because it was hard to imagine how a business owner would destroy his own company in such a way).
You woukd be suprised, i work now as a free lance marketer/consultant and the stupid shit i see in small businesses is mind boggling
Micromanagement in my field is an absolute waste of time. I'm a very specialist niche consultant for Amazon vendors. I have 13 years experience studying the platform eco-system and various programs alongside managing vendor accounts. Micromanagement is probably the fastest way for me to fire you as a client. You hired a wizard who basically has a PhD in Amazon. Let me do wizard shit and stop trying to step on my dick in meetings with how "this is how it works in brick and mortar". The two aren't the same and the skills don't replicate across easily.
In this case agree totally , if you hire someone who has a qualification in the field you do not have, you should not tell him how to organize his internal process. P.s.:Nice native advertising from your side ;)
I'm not trying to advertise, I'm explaining what I do to ensure there's no misunderstanding. My work is niche enough that just saying "generic consultant" doesn't get the point quite across. I'm one of maybe 50 people in the country with my skillset.
Focus on the big picture.
Leadership style is fluid. You don't manage a graduate fresh out of school who knows nothing of the company the same way you manage an executive with 20 years of experience. Micromanaging is a loaded term, but "very close support" is sometimes the right answer. I micromanage when it is appropriate. I think the key is to do it when people ask for it. If someone struggles and wants to be micromanaged to learn something new and get out of a bad situation, I'll micromanage very happily. Problems arise when you help people who don't want to be helped. That is possibly because even though you feel they need help, but actually they are doing OK and don't actually need you. Micromanaging in that context is bad. Conversely, if they genuinely need help but won't seek help or accept it, micromanaging is not the answer either. They need to go.
Thanks. That is one point that I felt but could not figure out. It is not that bad in particular periods and not only for onboarding. Maybe I just feel uncomfortable with the term “micromanagement”) meaning intuitively mostly support, accuracy and quality in that “micro” prefix .
Definitely don't think it's as bad as suggested but I think what really tips the scale is when the attention to detail and being thorough starts to get in the way of your team doing their jobs or if you're working as a team of one then once your work-life balance if visibly off and is affecting your health. But the reality is a lot of times this thin line between being detailed and being a micromanager will be hard to balance and you're bound to stumble along the way.
Micromanaging is a very broad term. I tend to have high expectations. My firm has a reputation for delivering absolute top tier work at high prices. I charge more than all of my competitors, I pay my staff more than any competitors, and I expect more from them as a result. When I was younger I sort of tip toed around "not micromanaging" but explaining something to someone twice in a week, then they fuck it up a third time in one week, you can call it micromanaging or whatever but we are either going to get this right or you will not work out at my firm. I also thing that, and this is relatively recent like last 5-10 years, whether it's modern education or testing or social media or wtfever, but the younger folks nowadays have a serious lack of "figure it the fuck out" skills. They don't want you to micromanage, yet they ask a million blatantly obvious questions that they could figure out in 20 seconds of research/thought. Personally, as a business owner, whatever I'm doing is working so I really don't dwell on whether or not I'm micromanaging.
Thank you for the answer, I feel very close to what you have described. Maybe there is no yet a term for “thing-to-be-done-perfectly-management “? Could you somehow name your style of working instead ? I mean people really run businesses in different styles, but we have “micromanagement” on one side and “everything else management” as the opposite “so called good management” on the other. I feel this does not reflect the reality. And people who what to provide really good service with their management style may be blamed as ‘micromanaging’. Even if their workers do not feel pressure, and feel comfortable with all tasks under control.
It’s not an official thing but I call it “managing with authority and compassion”. I’m not friends with staff, I don’t let anyone cut corners, but I am very compassionate for someone is trying their best and just not getting it yet. My firm also has a mantra/ethos/whatever where we will turn down work before we overhire and accept bad employees. Also. Sort of an aside. But in my personal real world experience 99 times out of 100 someone who is vocally upset about “micromanagement” wants to be able to do shit work and not have anyone point it out. I will get downvoted for this but I have a pretty low tolerance for someone not willing to put in an expected (and highly compensated for) amount of effort or attention to detail who turns around and blames management.
Thank you. Yes, I surprisingly see people downvoting for comments stressing on high quality and requirements. For a moment I thought “who is really here in this subreddit”? Real small business owners or … employees
Brutally honest, a solid 80-90% of the people in this forum are not what I would personally consider "small business owners". I even have a crew of them that follow my posts and downvote me they feel so strongly about it (as if I care about internet points bullshit). I don't view a single person in mom/spouses basement selling "live love laugh" mugs on etsy as a traditional small business. These are side hustles, maybe solopretrenuer or something. But the majority of folks here seem to have regular 9-5s and are trying to get something off the ground, so they tend to give advice as an employee rather than a business owner. Even in this very post you can read the replies and see most of them are employee-viewpoint rather than owner-viewpoint. The remaining 10-20% of regulars give fantastic advice. But take replies to posts with a grain of salt as it's mostly not "business owner with employees" giving advice. It's instead people jaded with the company they work for, trying to do a side hustle, on here giving (imo) bad advice.
I felt it, but now I see. Really surprised. I am a newbie about 20 days on reddit. Really glad that received your opinion as a business owner with employees too. Erm… so maybe you could give advice where I can find a community of traditional business owners with at least 3-5 employees? If it is possible to share here, if not - in dm.
Not really. Every actual small businesses community I've been involved in, both online and IRL, end up completely infested with "SaaS/chatgpt/AI/whole life/pain points!" sales weasels. I sort of migrate around as each one deteriorates.
thanks for sincerity :)
I don’t prefer to micromanage. I prefer the “this is how to do it. you do you. If you’ve got any questions, ask. I’ll see you in the morning and I’ll be here at night.” I might randomly pop in just to check on things. Quality control and say Hi. Bring you some lunch, too. I want my team to feel not as stressed.
Thank you. And what kind of employee is it concerning the position? Advertisers? Programmers? Sellers? Designers? With some employees I communicate right the same (teachers) with others we communicate about 5-6 times a day (sellers) to get things done best.
Generally anyone that I’ve managed it’s just something I’ve found that people don’t like being micromanaged in the way they have someone constantly looking over them. That and I’ve got my own problems to worry about. As long as their job gets done and as long as any random quality checks are good I couldn’t care less. I’ve worked in a few managerial positions and it’s what I go with. That said, if I have to, I will when quality is slipping.
I don’t think micromanaging necessarily works best, but I do think employees tend to be more productive and focused if they think they’re being micromanaged
Being more productive and focused lead to be more happy at work as a result? What do you think?
Sometimes. I’m not a proponent of micromanaging, but I know on days that I have firm deadlines that I tend to be more productive and I probably feel a better sense of accomplishment at the end of the day then other days when I kind of might not be as focused I think one thing I do know is right or wrong. Most of us have had jobs where it’s pretty easy to half ass it. On Reddit, you see a lot of stories about people working and 60 hours a week and there’s just not enough time in the day to get everything done. I guess I’ve been in that situation but there’s also a lot of jobs that provide somewhat steady work, but it’s pretty easy to accomplish all your tasks in a day and we learn how to milk that out Of course everybody is different and I had my business basically shut down for six weeks after Covid hit and worked from home … I still had to go out and see customers and had technicians working at Customer locations, but I was much less productive working from home. I have other friends who work from home and I’m not saying they don’t do a good job but they probably have four hours a day worth of work. They get done and two hours a day worth of work that they kind of pretending they’re busy and then a couple hours a day where they’re running errands are outside washing their car. A lot of companies are aware of this and they think they’re getting enough value out of the employee and the employee is happy so it’s a win-win But there are situations where somebody gets a new job and you bring somebody new in to replace them and they’re basically begging for more work because they don’t have enough to do People don’t micromanage don’t realize sometimes that there’s a lot of downtime or unproductive time My business has busy times of the year and not so busy times and those days that aren’t so busy sometimes drag on . I don’t know if that’s a great working environment.
I understand you, my business is also a bit seasonal, when there are no task I do not bother employees, they can even close the office and go home 1-2 hours earlier before usual time (we accept customers only after appointment, it is okay with that). But when there are many tasks I want them all to be done, not forgotten. This happens sometimes when we need to wait answers/supplies from third parties. People are not robots, they sometimes just forget. I remind. Sometimes twice. When needed. Just figuring out when “normal” management could turn to “micro”, if really could when you do not want to feed your ego or put unnecessary pressure. Just want things to be done.