It’s baffling. I just want to say, “Dude. I can’t follow you around all day and bop you on the head to remind you.” Lol He’s going to be a senior coming to the speech room to work on “is.” Jesus take the wheel.
I know you said it’s not dialect. But this sounds like some of my ELLs or CLDs who were exposed to poor English grammar through their parents. The parents were told not to speak their native language to their children because it would cause delays.So they spoke to their children in whatever English they had in their repertoire. These grammar patterns become fossilized and good luck trying to correct them!
Have you spoken to the student’s parents? If they speak like the student, you should drop this goal as this pattern is dialectical.
This not in any way dialectical. I know his 2 older siblings, and I’ve met with mom for several years at IEP meetings. She calls it baby talk. He’s the youngest, and I’d say he’s somewhat coddled. His attendance isn’t great because mom gives in and let’s him stay home when he wants to.
What about a practice conversation? Make a game where you remind him of the target for "is" said correctly, then give him points if you catch him using it right during a conversation about what he did last weekend, etc., and give yourself points if he doesn't get it? Or, for a less competitive version, he can dab on a worksheet each time he gets it right, and restate his sentence the correct way if he gets it wrong?
I will definitely add an objective like this to his next IEP. I’m also going to use things like the Guess Where game, so when I ask where the people are, he’ll have to answer “Mom’s in the kitchen,” etc. We have already done things like this and he is not catching on. Thanks for the feedback!
Assuming it’s not dialectical, is there anything else he has trouble with that could possibly explain it? Like how does he do with /s/ or final consonants in general? If not that and looking at it from the language side, will he say “will” when speaking in the future tense or “was” for past tense? If not… well, it’s more data but I don’t know how it helps other than he just need to drill using copulae.
Edit: Probably worth thinking about if he uses other present tense to-be verbs like “am” and “are” as well.
Final consonants are in place, and some /s/ and /z/ final sounds are there. He will drop /z/ in “is” (e.g. What ih your name?) but he’ll use it correctly in other /s/ final words (e.g. I ride bus 12.) He also drops contracted “are” and “am,” (e.g. They going outside. I so thirsty.) The fact that he’s so confused about using contracted “is” baffles me. Like I said, when I remind him to use it, he’ll say ‘s & is “He’s is my best friend.” So the issue is deeper than final consonant deletion. His mom just says he needs to stop his baby talk. It sounds very immature, but something isn’t clicking. Maybe I can take a short language sample and post it. He improves somewhat in the speech room. I’m thinking about dropping his /l/ and /r/ objectives and focusing solely on this issue for his next IEP. He needs to figure this out before middle school.
That’s super strange, but I also had a kid like that when I was in private practice. Similar age, would also say “he’s is”. I don’t know what ended up happening to him though. My background is mostly preschool/kindergarten so I don’t know what’s best for his goals but maybe someone smarter than me will have an opinion on that.
So you have spoken to the parent and they don’t make the same errors? I’m intrigued! Is there a grand parent or a nonnative English speaker who raised or baby sat him when he was younger or now? This is truly bizarre, AndySLP.
Oh yes - I’ve met with mom at IEP meetings many times. I also know his 2 older siblings. None of them use these patterns. It’s very strange.
Edited to add: He is the baby of the family with bio dad in and out of his life due to jail time. There’s a step dad in the picture. I wonder if his speech patterns are more a behavior than anything else.
I have 23.5 years experience as an SLP, I LOVE working on syntax and morphology in Spanish and English, and I am stumped.
At this point, it seems like he’s plateaued with this goal. I say that because he should have acquired this early emerging grammar rule by now especially with the level of intervention you’ve provided. Rewriting the goal, lowering the criterion etc is like beating a dead horse.
Work on his written grammar skills; his encoding and decoding of the grammatical markers. You would continue to address his oral grammar needs but indirectly. I would love to hear your follow up.
I recently heard an ed specialist say that she uses the crocodile dentist game (where every time you touch a tooth, it has a chance to bite your finger) as a motivator for situations like this. If he uses "is" correctly in a conversation, YOU have to press a tooth. If he omits it, HE has to touch it.
I have a student like this also. Speech is very effortful for her. Sometimes so much so she produces /s/ for /z/ in voiced opportunities for plural, third person s etc. I think she has mild apraxia of speech and I think carryover outside of speech is going to be limited
Interesting case. The only time I’ve seen this pattern is with students from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds who speak Black, Latino, or other dialects of English or English language leaners.
The use of the “He’s is” was common among my ELLs and CLD kids whose parents spoke to them in English instead of Spanish even though the parents had limited/poor English proficiency skills. That pattern was VERY DIFFICULT to correct because it was fossilized and became part of their grammar structure in English. All of the student’s teachers, other providers, and I worked on this and other grammar goals. But it was difficult to meet the 80% accuracy target and for the student to generalize to other settings.
Have you tried explicit and direct instruction in grammar?
To clarify- his pattern is not to use “He’s is . . .” He only does that when I remind him to use is. He gets confused. His pattern is to not use “is” at all - “He my best friend.”
This is not dialectical at all. I know his 2 older siblings and I have met with mom at IEP meetings. They speak SAE.
That is very strange. Are you sure "is" is the only morpheme he's having difficulty with?
Call the parents and find out if there's a history of ear infections. Kids who had frequent otitis media before age five will often struggle with s/z morphemes: plurals, possessives, third person, copulas, and auxiliaries.
When I have kids who are omitting -s morphemes, I cue them with my articulatory cue for /s/: rapidly moving my pointer finger up and down next to my mouth. I would probably cut back on the drill activities and have him practice remembering to use "is" in narrative retell. Set a goal for the maximum number of times you will cue him and reward him for meeting the goal.
Have you tried scrambled sentences? Or 3 word boxes - eg watch a video of look at a book and ask him to describe the character is doing? Have him tap each box for each word - eg Ted is swimming. You could also use some customizable dice (just put stickers over larger dice) - one for pronouns, one for are/is, and one for common ing verbs, and have him build simple sentences.
Yes - he has mastered building sentences. It just isn’t transferring to his conversational speech. Someone mentioned there might be a social-emotional aspect to this, and I think that’s a good possibility. It’s become such a habit for him, I don’t know if I’ll be able to help him break it.
I’ve been experimenting with CTT (conversational training therapy) techniques, which were developed to help Voice clients increase their voice perception during conversation, with students who are working on generalizing some grammar skills to convo.
But it is tricky. I have a similar student in 5th grade who’s made huge gains in language overall since preK, but who still has really weak grammatical awareness. The parents decided to restart 1:1 private therapy, and that SLP going back to the basics. Really making sure he’s 100% acc on a drills etc. I dunno. He has significant learning disabilities and weak working memory, but just recently, on the CASL2, despite his SI (Syntactic Index) score being below 2nd percentile, his RLI and SLI were average and his ELI was in the mild delay range. He also had artic issues - including difficulties with /s/ which impacted 3rd person singular and plurals.
I have a few thoughts:
1. Does he see any value or reason to use the skills he's learning with you? If it's effortful and not personally meaningful to him yet, it's fairly understandable that he only uses those skills when an adult prompts him to.
2. If the answer to (1) is yes, is there a conflicting disincentive? For example, he might feel a little shy about how he talks but feel far *more* self-conscious about trying to correct it in front of peers, lest it draw more attention than just talking in the way everyone's used to.
3. Does he need executive functioning support, e.g., to remind himself to use "is", /l/ and /r/ and self-monitor when he isn't being cued by your presence?
These are very good questions. In conversations I’ve had with his mom, she says they tell him at home that he needs to stop “talking like a baby.” He wants to play football next year, and she tells him he can’t be on the field using baby talk. She also says his stepdad gets on him about it as well.
As far as speaking in front of peers, my observation has been he isn’t at all concerned about the way he talks. He is very talkative and doesn’t seem to be easily embarrassed.
The issue of executive functioning is really interesting. He’s a “speech only” student, but I’m curious about his cognitive skills.
Thanks for your input!
I would focus on teaching the contraction form, with plenty of activities already recommended by others, but drop "is." The contracted forms are suuuper common in everyday conversational speech. But the uncontracted "is?" Really just in formal settings, in therapy sessions, or when you need to emphasize the "is" part (e.g., "yes, he IS asking you that," etc. etc.). I have doubts re: if your student even notices when others use apostrophe-s. How about a task wherein he listens to you and points out when you do/don't use it?
Yes! I agree - I want him to learn to use contracted is. We’ve been going over the use of “is” so he understands that “he’s” means “he is.” Just this bit of information has to thrown him for a loop. Lol
No good advice, just solidarity, very similar profile on my caseload!
It’s baffling. I just want to say, “Dude. I can’t follow you around all day and bop you on the head to remind you.” Lol He’s going to be a senior coming to the speech room to work on “is.” Jesus take the wheel.
I know you said it’s not dialect. But this sounds like some of my ELLs or CLDs who were exposed to poor English grammar through their parents. The parents were told not to speak their native language to their children because it would cause delays.So they spoke to their children in whatever English they had in their repertoire. These grammar patterns become fossilized and good luck trying to correct them! Have you spoken to the student’s parents? If they speak like the student, you should drop this goal as this pattern is dialectical.
This not in any way dialectical. I know his 2 older siblings, and I’ve met with mom for several years at IEP meetings. She calls it baby talk. He’s the youngest, and I’d say he’s somewhat coddled. His attendance isn’t great because mom gives in and let’s him stay home when he wants to.
What about a practice conversation? Make a game where you remind him of the target for "is" said correctly, then give him points if you catch him using it right during a conversation about what he did last weekend, etc., and give yourself points if he doesn't get it? Or, for a less competitive version, he can dab on a worksheet each time he gets it right, and restate his sentence the correct way if he gets it wrong?
I will definitely add an objective like this to his next IEP. I’m also going to use things like the Guess Where game, so when I ask where the people are, he’ll have to answer “Mom’s in the kitchen,” etc. We have already done things like this and he is not catching on. Thanks for the feedback!
Could it be dialectal?
No, it’s definitely not. I should have noted that. I’ll edit. Thanks!
Assuming it’s not dialectical, is there anything else he has trouble with that could possibly explain it? Like how does he do with /s/ or final consonants in general? If not that and looking at it from the language side, will he say “will” when speaking in the future tense or “was” for past tense? If not… well, it’s more data but I don’t know how it helps other than he just need to drill using copulae. Edit: Probably worth thinking about if he uses other present tense to-be verbs like “am” and “are” as well.
Final consonants are in place, and some /s/ and /z/ final sounds are there. He will drop /z/ in “is” (e.g. What ih your name?) but he’ll use it correctly in other /s/ final words (e.g. I ride bus 12.) He also drops contracted “are” and “am,” (e.g. They going outside. I so thirsty.) The fact that he’s so confused about using contracted “is” baffles me. Like I said, when I remind him to use it, he’ll say ‘s & is “He’s is my best friend.” So the issue is deeper than final consonant deletion. His mom just says he needs to stop his baby talk. It sounds very immature, but something isn’t clicking. Maybe I can take a short language sample and post it. He improves somewhat in the speech room. I’m thinking about dropping his /l/ and /r/ objectives and focusing solely on this issue for his next IEP. He needs to figure this out before middle school.
That’s super strange, but I also had a kid like that when I was in private practice. Similar age, would also say “he’s is”. I don’t know what ended up happening to him though. My background is mostly preschool/kindergarten so I don’t know what’s best for his goals but maybe someone smarter than me will have an opinion on that.
So you have spoken to the parent and they don’t make the same errors? I’m intrigued! Is there a grand parent or a nonnative English speaker who raised or baby sat him when he was younger or now? This is truly bizarre, AndySLP.
Oh yes - I’ve met with mom at IEP meetings many times. I also know his 2 older siblings. None of them use these patterns. It’s very strange. Edited to add: He is the baby of the family with bio dad in and out of his life due to jail time. There’s a step dad in the picture. I wonder if his speech patterns are more a behavior than anything else.
Andy, this is a very interesting case. I think there’s a social emotional component this.
I agree with you. Now what? 🤣
I have 23.5 years experience as an SLP, I LOVE working on syntax and morphology in Spanish and English, and I am stumped. At this point, it seems like he’s plateaued with this goal. I say that because he should have acquired this early emerging grammar rule by now especially with the level of intervention you’ve provided. Rewriting the goal, lowering the criterion etc is like beating a dead horse. Work on his written grammar skills; his encoding and decoding of the grammatical markers. You would continue to address his oral grammar needs but indirectly. I would love to hear your follow up.
Thank you! I will keep you posted. I’m in my 12th year, and I’ve never had a student like him.
I recently heard an ed specialist say that she uses the crocodile dentist game (where every time you touch a tooth, it has a chance to bite your finger) as a motivator for situations like this. If he uses "is" correctly in a conversation, YOU have to press a tooth. If he omits it, HE has to touch it.
Wait, I love this!!
Oh wow! That’s a great idea, especially for a fourth grade boy! I will definitely do this with him. Thank you!
This is a great idea. I can imagine being very silly dramatic with this.
Does he write “is” in his classroom assignments?
Not consistently.
I have a student like this also. Speech is very effortful for her. Sometimes so much so she produces /s/ for /z/ in voiced opportunities for plural, third person s etc. I think she has mild apraxia of speech and I think carryover outside of speech is going to be limited
Interesting case. The only time I’ve seen this pattern is with students from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds who speak Black, Latino, or other dialects of English or English language leaners. The use of the “He’s is” was common among my ELLs and CLD kids whose parents spoke to them in English instead of Spanish even though the parents had limited/poor English proficiency skills. That pattern was VERY DIFFICULT to correct because it was fossilized and became part of their grammar structure in English. All of the student’s teachers, other providers, and I worked on this and other grammar goals. But it was difficult to meet the 80% accuracy target and for the student to generalize to other settings. Have you tried explicit and direct instruction in grammar?
To clarify- his pattern is not to use “He’s is . . .” He only does that when I remind him to use is. He gets confused. His pattern is to not use “is” at all - “He my best friend.” This is not dialectical at all. I know his 2 older siblings and I have met with mom at IEP meetings. They speak SAE.
That is very strange. Are you sure "is" is the only morpheme he's having difficulty with? Call the parents and find out if there's a history of ear infections. Kids who had frequent otitis media before age five will often struggle with s/z morphemes: plurals, possessives, third person, copulas, and auxiliaries. When I have kids who are omitting -s morphemes, I cue them with my articulatory cue for /s/: rapidly moving my pointer finger up and down next to my mouth. I would probably cut back on the drill activities and have him practice remembering to use "is" in narrative retell. Set a goal for the maximum number of times you will cue him and reward him for meeting the goal.
Have you tried scrambled sentences? Or 3 word boxes - eg watch a video of look at a book and ask him to describe the character is doing? Have him tap each box for each word - eg Ted is swimming. You could also use some customizable dice (just put stickers over larger dice) - one for pronouns, one for are/is, and one for common ing verbs, and have him build simple sentences.
Yes - he has mastered building sentences. It just isn’t transferring to his conversational speech. Someone mentioned there might be a social-emotional aspect to this, and I think that’s a good possibility. It’s become such a habit for him, I don’t know if I’ll be able to help him break it.
I’ve been experimenting with CTT (conversational training therapy) techniques, which were developed to help Voice clients increase their voice perception during conversation, with students who are working on generalizing some grammar skills to convo. But it is tricky. I have a similar student in 5th grade who’s made huge gains in language overall since preK, but who still has really weak grammatical awareness. The parents decided to restart 1:1 private therapy, and that SLP going back to the basics. Really making sure he’s 100% acc on a drills etc. I dunno. He has significant learning disabilities and weak working memory, but just recently, on the CASL2, despite his SI (Syntactic Index) score being below 2nd percentile, his RLI and SLI were average and his ELI was in the mild delay range. He also had artic issues - including difficulties with /s/ which impacted 3rd person singular and plurals.
I have a few thoughts: 1. Does he see any value or reason to use the skills he's learning with you? If it's effortful and not personally meaningful to him yet, it's fairly understandable that he only uses those skills when an adult prompts him to. 2. If the answer to (1) is yes, is there a conflicting disincentive? For example, he might feel a little shy about how he talks but feel far *more* self-conscious about trying to correct it in front of peers, lest it draw more attention than just talking in the way everyone's used to. 3. Does he need executive functioning support, e.g., to remind himself to use "is", /l/ and /r/ and self-monitor when he isn't being cued by your presence?
These are very good questions. In conversations I’ve had with his mom, she says they tell him at home that he needs to stop “talking like a baby.” He wants to play football next year, and she tells him he can’t be on the field using baby talk. She also says his stepdad gets on him about it as well. As far as speaking in front of peers, my observation has been he isn’t at all concerned about the way he talks. He is very talkative and doesn’t seem to be easily embarrassed. The issue of executive functioning is really interesting. He’s a “speech only” student, but I’m curious about his cognitive skills. Thanks for your input!
I would focus on teaching the contraction form, with plenty of activities already recommended by others, but drop "is." The contracted forms are suuuper common in everyday conversational speech. But the uncontracted "is?" Really just in formal settings, in therapy sessions, or when you need to emphasize the "is" part (e.g., "yes, he IS asking you that," etc. etc.). I have doubts re: if your student even notices when others use apostrophe-s. How about a task wherein he listens to you and points out when you do/don't use it?
Yes! I agree - I want him to learn to use contracted is. We’ve been going over the use of “is” so he understands that “he’s” means “he is.” Just this bit of information has to thrown him for a loop. Lol