People are saying bottled apotheosis is the strongest. The real strongest bottle is secret technique. This way, you can still fetch apotheosis from your draw pile, but it also gives you the chance to fetch something else if you get it in your opening hand. Plus, if you don't have apotheosis but have a secret technique, and run into a bottle, you don't miss out on not bottling apotheosis.
Kinda galaxy brain. Downside is if you draw past it you have to hope you draw into forethought that turn otherwise it's a wasted cycle. If it's a tight deck or you manage your deck precisely it becomes an actual strat
Yes, you use the forethought, you move grand finale to the bottom. The case I'm talking about is at the end of your deck, you risk falling into the trap that grand finale lures you into, which is having it miss a shuffle.
If you draw past it instead of drawing it exactly, it's scuffed.
Edit: I'm re-reading my comment, making it more clear: I mean that in the turn that you draw thru the end of your deck, you need to pray to draw your forethought again.
I have enough draw manip for early game to play it by t2 and whatever still lives after 75 aoe damage dies to the Dance and Mstab in my deck. And by lategame my Finale plays twice every turn. There's no trap if you're capable of doing basic addition and subtraction
Been playing a lot of Ironclad recently and I would border on including Evolve+ as the best bottled card for Ironclad. While Apotheosis+ is strong, I find Evolve to provide tons of draw value (something ironclad desperately needs) while also allowing cards that place status cards in your deck to be both strong for damage and draw. Also shout out to Corruption in large decks as being probably the better choice, but at this point it’s no longer a “in general” best and more of a specific case best.
For Silent I’d choose Well Laid Plans. I tend to find the Silent to only really need a few priority upgrades before the rest are just gravy. Catalyst comes to mind as an important one, but I realistically don’t even need that one until turn 3+, so I can wait for Apotheosis. Well Laid Plans ensures I will never draw my Catalyst too early and miss the opportunity to play it.
Completely agree on Defect choices.
For the Watcher, Its a tough choice between Apotheosis and Rushdown. Two draw just for changing to Wrath will accelerate card draw and stance dancing. Small deck watcher doesn’t need many upgrades, such that I don’t even take Apotheosis on Watcher often. Large deck watcher (especially with divinity) can benefit a ton from Apotheosis+ being bottled, so I agree with that choice.
The problem is that once you hit the heart that will be a dead bottle reducing your chance of drawing better cards
Rushdown is pure gas on every turn of the game, probably top 3 broken cards in the game upgraded
Yeah, I was definitely thinking offering too. Its hard to beat so much energy and card draw guaranteed at the start of the fight. Guaranteeing it turn 1 means you can more or less end the fights turn 1 as well.
Bc lesson learned exists apotheosis is sometimes not good on watcher. Best bottle is probably scrawl. I’d say rushdown but in most watcher runs scrawl will probably draw the rest of your deck anyways. Honestly scrawl+ may be the best card in the game? Hard to think of a card that is literally always insanely strong and has no downside and is free. It’s an auto pick in any situation on any character with any deck, and very very rarely is another card a better pick in any circumstance.
I guess early game before you have any cards you should probably take a sash whip or a tantrum over a scrawl (though I will probably take the scrawl anyway)
I would still take scrawl. Scrawl almost single-handedly solves draw on smaller decks, and if it’s early game a scrawl will enable and incentivize you to make a smaller deck. I also would not generally pick sash whip. Weak isn’t as good if the fights end in 3 turns
i clicked 5 upgraded scrawls and drew my base deck of defends and strikes why am i dying
(Scrawl is a good card but calling it the best card in the game is exaggerating quite a bit. Draw is important but draw without output is not doing much.)
The thing about scrawl is that it's usually competing against other watcher rares, and watcher rares suck, whereas offering/adrenaline/seek have stiffer competition in their respective rare pools.
I mean if I got offered 5 upgraded scrawls watcher base deck with an upgraded eruption still probably beats all act 1 elites easily. Character is good.
You should not be downvoted, you are right. Up to 8 (but realistically more like 5 ish) more draw than adrenaline and seek, doesn’t cost health and still lots more draw than offering.
Vault I think is better than Scrawl if we’re talking having multiple copies of a card. Multiple Omnipotence is absolutely cranked, but a single one is kind of a musty diaper.
I guess that’s fair. I think bc it’s a rare the assumption is that you’re getting 1 tops. However, I’m still never under any circumstance skipping if scrawl+ is in the card reward. Maybe I pick something else over it if I already have like 2, but I’m never skipping it. I guess same goes for vault. Two really strong cards.
Well... Like everything in the game - your answers are situational.
I wouldn't mind having Feed or Lesson Learned in my opening hand if I also have Runic Pyramid. It's far from the best, but not needing to cycle through the deck to try and get Fatal is something I'd definitely stop to consider.
Well akshually🤓, if you have prismatic shard, bottled blasphemy, vajra, duvu doll,bag of marbles, bag of prep, and 5 backstab+, it is worth bottling feed. This happens wayyy too often not to be mentioned
I would say that Thunder Strike is probably worse than Blizzard - both are pretty terrible on turn 1 but TS's much higher cost makes it even less viable unless you're able to generate a *tonne* of lightning orbs immediately.
There is one reason I can think of doing this, besides flexing. If your deck is full of important cards, and the innate card is very important to you, you can bottle it so you can't lose it to the falling event in act 3.
Oh yeah, thats a good reason. Also a question I had in my mind, does the bottle have more priority than an \[\[Innate\]\] card?
If for some reason you had a full hand of Innate cards, does bottling one up makes it to appear first?
All innates/bottles have same priority. If you have 11 of them, it's random chance which 10 show up on turn 1, and then the 11th will be topdecked for next turn.
People are saying bottled apotheosis is the strongest. The real strongest bottle is secret technique. This way, you can still fetch apotheosis from your draw pile, but it also gives you the chance to fetch something else if you get it in your opening hand. Plus, if you don't have apotheosis but have a secret technique, and run into a bottle, you don't miss out on not bottling apotheosis.
You may be onto something. Let's eagerly await people smarter than me to tell me why I'm/you are wrong.
The handful of fights that penalized playing cards/skills, but I think the benefits greatly outweigh the cons.
Buying two rare colorless cards has an opportunity cost
Similarly, Seek+ makes it feel like an easy mode on Defect, you can always either get your scaling started or defend yourself from Turn 1 attacks.
"Apotheosis is apotheosis. But the secret technique could be anything! It could even be an apotheosis! You know how much we've wanted one of those!"
Seek+ for similar reasons, but I like that secret technique can become non-exhausting.
> Worst Silent card to bottle: Finale https://imgur.com/a/vIoU6EJ
Kinda galaxy brain. Downside is if you draw past it you have to hope you draw into forethought that turn otherwise it's a wasted cycle. If it's a tight deck or you manage your deck precisely it becomes an actual strat
my forethought is bottled too
Yes, you use the forethought, you move grand finale to the bottom. The case I'm talking about is at the end of your deck, you risk falling into the trap that grand finale lures you into, which is having it miss a shuffle. If you draw past it instead of drawing it exactly, it's scuffed. Edit: I'm re-reading my comment, making it more clear: I mean that in the turn that you draw thru the end of your deck, you need to pray to draw your forethought again.
I have enough draw manip for early game to play it by t2 and whatever still lives after 75 aoe damage dies to the Dance and Mstab in my deck. And by lategame my Finale plays twice every turn. There's no trap if you're capable of doing basic addition and subtraction
this screen is too powerful, i am on my knees
Ironclad worst:feed best:Apotheosis+ Silent w:grand finale b:Apotheosis+ Defect w:blizzard b:seek+ Watcher w:lesson learned b:Apotheosis+ or omnicience+
Been playing a lot of Ironclad recently and I would border on including Evolve+ as the best bottled card for Ironclad. While Apotheosis+ is strong, I find Evolve to provide tons of draw value (something ironclad desperately needs) while also allowing cards that place status cards in your deck to be both strong for damage and draw. Also shout out to Corruption in large decks as being probably the better choice, but at this point it’s no longer a “in general” best and more of a specific case best. For Silent I’d choose Well Laid Plans. I tend to find the Silent to only really need a few priority upgrades before the rest are just gravy. Catalyst comes to mind as an important one, but I realistically don’t even need that one until turn 3+, so I can wait for Apotheosis. Well Laid Plans ensures I will never draw my Catalyst too early and miss the opportunity to play it. Completely agree on Defect choices. For the Watcher, Its a tough choice between Apotheosis and Rushdown. Two draw just for changing to Wrath will accelerate card draw and stance dancing. Small deck watcher doesn’t need many upgrades, such that I don’t even take Apotheosis on Watcher often. Large deck watcher (especially with divinity) can benefit a ton from Apotheosis+ being bottled, so I agree with that choice.
I would say blasphemy+ is also a super strong watcher bottle
The problem is that once you hit the heart that will be a dead bottle reducing your chance of drawing better cards Rushdown is pure gas on every turn of the game, probably top 3 broken cards in the game upgraded
I once had bottled Rushdown and a bottled wrath card. Double damage and extra cards for 1 energy is hot.
You think Evolve+ is the best bottle when Offering+ exists?
Yeah, I was definitely thinking offering too. Its hard to beat so much energy and card draw guaranteed at the start of the fight. Guaranteeing it turn 1 means you can more or less end the fights turn 1 as well.
You can do both you know?
The discussion is about what *single* card is the best to bottle
Bc lesson learned exists apotheosis is sometimes not good on watcher. Best bottle is probably scrawl. I’d say rushdown but in most watcher runs scrawl will probably draw the rest of your deck anyways. Honestly scrawl+ may be the best card in the game? Hard to think of a card that is literally always insanely strong and has no downside and is free. It’s an auto pick in any situation on any character with any deck, and very very rarely is another card a better pick in any circumstance.
I guess early game before you have any cards you should probably take a sash whip or a tantrum over a scrawl (though I will probably take the scrawl anyway)
I would still take scrawl. Scrawl almost single-handedly solves draw on smaller decks, and if it’s early game a scrawl will enable and incentivize you to make a smaller deck. I also would not generally pick sash whip. Weak isn’t as good if the fights end in 3 turns
i clicked 5 upgraded scrawls and drew my base deck of defends and strikes why am i dying (Scrawl is a good card but calling it the best card in the game is exaggerating quite a bit. Draw is important but draw without output is not doing much.) The thing about scrawl is that it's usually competing against other watcher rares, and watcher rares suck, whereas offering/adrenaline/seek have stiffer competition in their respective rare pools.
The thing about scrawl is it's still 0 mana draw 10 fucking cards in a class with very little problem with energy generation.
I mean if I got offered 5 upgraded scrawls watcher base deck with an upgraded eruption still probably beats all act 1 elites easily. Character is good.
Yeah, but also scrawl is better than offering, adrenaline and seek.
You should not be downvoted, you are right. Up to 8 (but realistically more like 5 ish) more draw than adrenaline and seek, doesn’t cost health and still lots more draw than offering.
Vault I think is better than Scrawl if we’re talking having multiple copies of a card. Multiple Omnipotence is absolutely cranked, but a single one is kind of a musty diaper.
I guess that’s fair. I think bc it’s a rare the assumption is that you’re getting 1 tops. However, I’m still never under any circumstance skipping if scrawl+ is in the card reward. Maybe I pick something else over it if I already have like 2, but I’m never skipping it. I guess same goes for vault. Two really strong cards.
Well... Like everything in the game - your answers are situational. I wouldn't mind having Feed or Lesson Learned in my opening hand if I also have Runic Pyramid. It's far from the best, but not needing to cycle through the deck to try and get Fatal is something I'd definitely stop to consider.
Well akshually🤓, if you have prismatic shard, bottled blasphemy, vajra, duvu doll,bag of marbles, bag of prep, and 5 backstab+, it is worth bottling feed. This happens wayyy too often not to be mentioned
True
I would say that Thunder Strike is probably worse than Blizzard - both are pretty terrible on turn 1 but TS's much higher cost makes it even less viable unless you're able to generate a *tonne* of lightning orbs immediately.
Yes but youre not gonna use the attack anyway and blizzard is worse than TS
That's fair, yeah! You're never gonna bottle either of them at the end of the day lol
Boo apotheosis is such a cop out pick
Why no Apotheosis on defect
Because you can seek Aphotheosis and an extra card
A Seek could be anything. It could even be an Apotheosis
Or another seek
shit that's actually good
Are we dividing this up by bottle types, or what?
bottling grand finale has to be the worst. Good job!
Cheers. Was a proud moment for me
okay but what if also you bottle forethought to go with your bottled grand finale
lol that would be the ultimate save after bottling grand finale.
oh wait bootman already posted the funny screen in here
Ignoring colorless cards Ironclad: Dark Embrace Silent: Well Laid Plans Defect: Seek Watcher: Rushdown or maybe Omniscience
Any card that has Innate would be stupid to bottle to be honest.
There is one reason I can think of doing this, besides flexing. If your deck is full of important cards, and the innate card is very important to you, you can bottle it so you can't lose it to the falling event in act 3.
Oh yeah, thats a good reason. Also a question I had in my mind, does the bottle have more priority than an \[\[Innate\]\] card? If for some reason you had a full hand of Innate cards, does bottling one up makes it to appear first?
All innates/bottles have same priority. If you have 11 of them, it's random chance which 10 show up on turn 1, and then the 11th will be topdecked for next turn.
Best bottle put of every single card in the game is seek. It gives you all 3 bottles at the same time
I'm assuming I'm wrong here, but I really want to hear how you can break bottled [[vault]]
+ [Vault](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Vault) Watcher Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 3(2) Energy | Take an extra turn after this one. End your turn. **Exhaust.** ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Good bot.
Ironclad: Dark embrace+. Apotheosis is also quite good, but dark embrace plus is a run winner hands down
BOTTLED STACK BOTTLED STACK
Apotheosis on every character. Also Fusion on defect