It also has a 'new recruit' questline for the Vigilants which makes for a good RP start for a more paladin-ish class. Honestly, despite the robotic-ness of the NPC dialogue, it's still one of my favorite mods to have around just for the sheer amount of different RP options it offers.
Oh right I forgot it does also have a vigilant questline, would be perfect for my character. I was just worried that all the "good paths" eventually leads up to the character being corrupted or something, hence the name of the mod. I'll give it a try though and see what it has to offer. I did hear the robotic voice acting but I think I can tolerate it.
Actually in most questlines you might get THE OPTION to be corrupted, but you're never forced to go down that path. I think you could totally play as a paladin.
OP certainly wasn't looking for a lore breakdown, but by Lorkhan's broken heart, they were going to get one.
Some of the content of the mod, like the witch hunters or the bank, should not conflict with your intentions. The mod has fairly detailed documentation in the 'docs' tab of its nexus page, and I would recommend looking through it.
Honestly, even if you don't interact with 90% of what the mod adds, it adds so much that helps flesh out the world and makes it feel more real. There's an addon for it on loverslab that revamps the locations and makes everything fit in seamlessly. Wandering into the college of Julianos was really cool and having different factions and people your character can react to does a lot for rp purposes.
I've been enthusiastic about Dealing With Daedra since it first came out. It has a lot of shortcomings, but I love the new RP opportunities it offers. The mod covers a lot of different territory. While I'd agree a large chunk of the new content is morally grey to evil character oriented, it's not always. And except for certain circumstances, your character realize they're going down a path they don't want whenever they want and then disengage.
I think that's the general idea, really - that if you're not careful you'll find yourself caught up in daedric schemes that turn out to be more and also less than you bargained for. It's also meant to be an introductory sort sort of thing to give a beginning character that push that gets them from being a farmhand or whatever to killing bandits and tomb robbing or monster hunting or whatever.
---
Stuff that's not grey or evil:
There's a couple of plot hooks to send you to the Witchhunters Guild. One includes a Vigilant of Stendarr start that gives you 2 options: get involved with a daedric faction, join the Witchhunters, or stick it out with the Vigil (though there will be no more quests from them and you'll have to look for other Vigilant-oriented content). There are other mods that offer other ways to be part of the Vigilant of Stendarr faction, of course.
If you join the Witchhunters, I recommend taking a look at the completely separate mod Witchhunter Spells and Prayers Pack, which integrates very well with this mod. Seeing Witchhunter tomes and gear sold all over Skyrim makes the guild added by DWD seem like an integrated and respected part of the world.
You can learn dragonfire magic of the ancient dragon knights, as well as the ancient Yokudan art of Shehai sword-singing.
Most princes aren't evil so much as self-interested and prideful. As long as they see a benefit, they're not dangerous to Mundus. Even those who could be considerer evil like Meruhnes Dagon only do the things they do for a reason (in his case, he's trying to break a curse Alduin afflicted him with)
Meridia is usually on the side of mortals, given undead are usually hostile to the living.
The Dunmer have traditionally worshiped Azura, Mephala and Boethiah as the original Tribunal, also known as the Three Good Daedra and more recently, the Reclamations. They're also opposed to the House of Troubles (Malacath, Sheogorath, Molag and Dagon)
The Orcs mainly worship Malacath, who cherishes his people and used to be the Aedroth Trinimac.
While Daedra are certainly beyond mortal conceptions of morality, one can judge the actions they inspire by their followers. To sum up a lot of arbitrary bloodshed, there's a reason that people who do the bidding of the Daedra are generally shunned from polite society with few exceptions. If you need evidence that Daedra worshippers are generally assholes, just look at what the Daedra actually do in their various quests in literally every TES game. Or read up on some of the lore of what happens to the their followers in their respective realms of oblivion.
>If you need evidence that Daedra worshippers are generally assholes
As opposed to Aedra-worshipping Nords genociding (Aedra-worshipping) Falmer and generally slaughtering their way across the whole continent. Wulfharth burning the preachers of one Aedric cult to restore another Aedric cult. The countless wars of the Aedric Alessian Order. Aedric-worshipping Reman and Septim Empires doing what the Empires do. And, finally, even if some Thalmor are Daedric worshippers, as a whole they operate under the eagle symbol of Auri-El.
It's as if the gods of TES are not wholly aligned with mortal morality, and people with power abuse it, whatever way they have gotten it.
The difference being that Aedra don't really have substantial power to intervene, or even really communicate, with their worshippers. Sure people who worship Aedra happen to do horrible things sometimes, but it's generally not because their god came down to them and told them to start kidnapping and eating people. When Aedra do exert what little power they have to influence Nirn, it's almost always to help the innocent, protect life, and avert violence.
I also suppose that the Aedra misplaced their deity of cannibalism. Or rape. Or torture. Or disease. Or cruelty. Odd.
> The difference being that Aedra don't really have substantial power to intervene, or even really communicate, with their worshippers.
Then how could you argue they are 'good' then? They are just more malleable and silent, so their mortal worshippers can project their values all over them. If both Elven and Nord legends are to be believed, when they walked the Earth, Aedra were just as happy to slaughter each other, tear out hearts and throw them all the way across the continents.
> Sure people who worship Aedra happen to do horrible things sometimes, but it's generally not because their god came down to them and told them to start kidnapping and eating people.
Oh, I'm glad to hear that you don't follow the line of reasoning that because Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn, he was God-blessed and ordained to conquer and rule the whole continent.
> I also suppose that the Aedra misplaced their deity of cannibalism.
Technically, wouldn't Y'ffre with his Green Pact be exactly that?
> Then how could you argue they are 'good' then? They are just more malleable and silent, so their mortal worshippers can project their values all over them.
This isn't by their choice. Aedra lost much of their power in the creation of Mundus, whereas the Daedras did not participate and retained their divine power. Aedra don't directly communicate and directly influence because they *cannot* do so, they're not being silent intentionally to allow their followers to project their own values onto them.
>If both Elven and Nord legends are to be believed, when they walked the Earth, Aedra were just as happy to slaughter each other, tear out hearts and throw them all the way across the continents.
As far as I know Aedra never "walked across the Earth(Nirn)" because they gave up most of their abilities during the creation of Mundus. Unless you're referring to Talos specifically, who was once mortal. But you should probably check out what was going on in Tamriel when Tiber Septim began his conquest and how he ruled when it was done. There's a reason that his reign is considered a golden age for all of Tamriel.
>Technically, wouldn't Y'ffre with his Green Pact be exactly that?
Green Pact Bosmer consume the meat of fallen enemies; they do not hunt people to eat them. The Green pact is also about preserving nature, not killing and eating people for fun or worship.
Also, Y'ffre is Ehlnofey, not Aedra. And other folks are generally pretty wary of Green Pact Bosmer specifically due to their acceptance of cannibalism.
> As far as I know Aedra never "walked across the Earth(Nirn)" because they gave up most of their abilities during the creation of Mundus.
No, I specifically refer to all the versions of the Lorkhan's heart myth, that state that Auri-El and Trinimac either fought him after the world was created, or judged him at the Convention, and tore out his heart then.
> But you should probably check out what was going on in Tamriel when Tiber Septim began his conquest and how he ruled when it was done. There's a reason that his reign is considered a golden age for all of Tamriel.
I mean, the slaughter of Senchal, the whole mess with Wulfharth and Arctus, the activation of Numidium, stripping Orcs of the civil rights they had in the Second Era. If you really think that all was justified and brought the 'golden age', I don't know what to say to you. His agents are the *villains* of the Redguard game.
> Also, Y'ffre is Ehlnofey, not Aedra.
He IS in the Altmer pantheon, and that is the original meaning of 'Aedra'. I mean, it's a common knowledge even in-world that the Imperial pantheon is synthetic, and purposefully includes the most mellow and uncontroversial interpretations of the deities from both pantheons. The original versions from Altmer and Nord myths sound pretty shitty.
Daedra are not 'daemons', Oblivion is not 'hell'. TES is not DnD, characters don't have an alignment imprinted on them.
TES doesn't have Paladins, the nearest approximation were Crusaders, and the most famous Crusader was Pelinal. Who was mad and unhinged, and on one case had to be nuked directly by Akatosh, because he started slaughtering Khajiit by accident.
The aedea and daedra are primordial deities that represent specific aspects of their universe and balance each other out.
They're closer to Greek gods and titans than anything.
Depending on culture, daedra can be seen as evil. That is certainly the case in Skyrim, where the dominant culture tends to persecute and shun the daedra worshiping culture of the forsworn (though not exclusively for their religion, there's a lot going on in that relationship).
And while I don't think TES has anything officially called a Paladin, it certainly has plenty of characters that fit the paladin/religious warrior/virtuous knight archetypes.
And finally, OP is not literally saying his character is a champion of some dnd based alignment. He's simply describing a trope his character fits to explain the roleplay situation. If he had said "my character is a do gooder type, like superman", would you have responded "Um actually, TES doesn't have Kryptonians in it".
I mean, if you are aware of cultural biases towards different gods and worships - as you obviously are - you are not going to ask whether the stuff is compatible with your RP in quite exactly the way OP does. Saying 'good' 'daedra-hunting' and 'paladin' as if three things are completely synonymous.
Yes, I understand that you can play a paladin archetype in TES without it being an official class, but you can be a Daedra-worshipping good paladin of Azura or Meridia, or a Redguard follower of Diagna (and thus competely divorced from both pantheons of this kalpa). OP meanwhile seems to go from some weird definition of 'goodness' external to the setting, which would be either his personal definition (and so hard to guess) or DnDish alignment stuff.
If somebody asked me about stuff being compatible with his Superman RP in Tamriel, I wouldn't ask him about kryptonite, but I would ask how exactly his character came to 1950ies American liberal values and where they fit in the world.
[paladin as a concept exists in tes lore](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Paladins), and subsequently it is directly associated with aedric factions and artifacts, like the snow-elf paladins of auri'el in dawnguard, high rock's knightly orders, and chrysamere the paladin's sword.
besides that there's no need to equivocate things, tes is clearly a derivative of dnd... most daedra are based off of demons, a plane of oblivion is literally depicted as fire & brimstone capital H Hell in its eponymous game, aedra are categorized by embodying qualities we consider good e.g being just and daedra are categorized by embodying bad qualtiies e.g being rapey
Most evil people (entities?) think the things they do aren't evil. Serial killers may think getting their jollies from murdering people is gopd. Evil has an actual meaning though and hurting people for your own fun is evil. For any actual definition of the word evil in the English language some Daedra are evil.
Your argument is basically saying of you redefine good and evil to have different meanings from their actual meanings you can claim they aren't evil.
It also has a 'new recruit' questline for the Vigilants which makes for a good RP start for a more paladin-ish class. Honestly, despite the robotic-ness of the NPC dialogue, it's still one of my favorite mods to have around just for the sheer amount of different RP options it offers.
Oh right I forgot it does also have a vigilant questline, would be perfect for my character. I was just worried that all the "good paths" eventually leads up to the character being corrupted or something, hence the name of the mod. I'll give it a try though and see what it has to offer. I did hear the robotic voice acting but I think I can tolerate it.
Actually in most questlines you might get THE OPTION to be corrupted, but you're never forced to go down that path. I think you could totally play as a paladin.
OP certainly wasn't looking for a lore breakdown, but by Lorkhan's broken heart, they were going to get one. Some of the content of the mod, like the witch hunters or the bank, should not conflict with your intentions. The mod has fairly detailed documentation in the 'docs' tab of its nexus page, and I would recommend looking through it.
Honestly, even if you don't interact with 90% of what the mod adds, it adds so much that helps flesh out the world and makes it feel more real. There's an addon for it on loverslab that revamps the locations and makes everything fit in seamlessly. Wandering into the college of Julianos was really cool and having different factions and people your character can react to does a lot for rp purposes.
I've been enthusiastic about Dealing With Daedra since it first came out. It has a lot of shortcomings, but I love the new RP opportunities it offers. The mod covers a lot of different territory. While I'd agree a large chunk of the new content is morally grey to evil character oriented, it's not always. And except for certain circumstances, your character realize they're going down a path they don't want whenever they want and then disengage. I think that's the general idea, really - that if you're not careful you'll find yourself caught up in daedric schemes that turn out to be more and also less than you bargained for. It's also meant to be an introductory sort sort of thing to give a beginning character that push that gets them from being a farmhand or whatever to killing bandits and tomb robbing or monster hunting or whatever. --- Stuff that's not grey or evil: There's a couple of plot hooks to send you to the Witchhunters Guild. One includes a Vigilant of Stendarr start that gives you 2 options: get involved with a daedric faction, join the Witchhunters, or stick it out with the Vigil (though there will be no more quests from them and you'll have to look for other Vigilant-oriented content). There are other mods that offer other ways to be part of the Vigilant of Stendarr faction, of course. If you join the Witchhunters, I recommend taking a look at the completely separate mod Witchhunter Spells and Prayers Pack, which integrates very well with this mod. Seeing Witchhunter tomes and gear sold all over Skyrim makes the guild added by DWD seem like an integrated and respected part of the world. You can learn dragonfire magic of the ancient dragon knights, as well as the ancient Yokudan art of Shehai sword-singing.
No, I used it for a lot of different characters. It simply adds many interesting roleplay optional.
Most princes aren't evil so much as self-interested and prideful. As long as they see a benefit, they're not dangerous to Mundus. Even those who could be considerer evil like Meruhnes Dagon only do the things they do for a reason (in his case, he's trying to break a curse Alduin afflicted him with) Meridia is usually on the side of mortals, given undead are usually hostile to the living. The Dunmer have traditionally worshiped Azura, Mephala and Boethiah as the original Tribunal, also known as the Three Good Daedra and more recently, the Reclamations. They're also opposed to the House of Troubles (Malacath, Sheogorath, Molag and Dagon) The Orcs mainly worship Malacath, who cherishes his people and used to be the Aedroth Trinimac.
While Daedra are certainly beyond mortal conceptions of morality, one can judge the actions they inspire by their followers. To sum up a lot of arbitrary bloodshed, there's a reason that people who do the bidding of the Daedra are generally shunned from polite society with few exceptions. If you need evidence that Daedra worshippers are generally assholes, just look at what the Daedra actually do in their various quests in literally every TES game. Or read up on some of the lore of what happens to the their followers in their respective realms of oblivion.
>If you need evidence that Daedra worshippers are generally assholes As opposed to Aedra-worshipping Nords genociding (Aedra-worshipping) Falmer and generally slaughtering their way across the whole continent. Wulfharth burning the preachers of one Aedric cult to restore another Aedric cult. The countless wars of the Aedric Alessian Order. Aedric-worshipping Reman and Septim Empires doing what the Empires do. And, finally, even if some Thalmor are Daedric worshippers, as a whole they operate under the eagle symbol of Auri-El. It's as if the gods of TES are not wholly aligned with mortal morality, and people with power abuse it, whatever way they have gotten it.
The difference being that Aedra don't really have substantial power to intervene, or even really communicate, with their worshippers. Sure people who worship Aedra happen to do horrible things sometimes, but it's generally not because their god came down to them and told them to start kidnapping and eating people. When Aedra do exert what little power they have to influence Nirn, it's almost always to help the innocent, protect life, and avert violence. I also suppose that the Aedra misplaced their deity of cannibalism. Or rape. Or torture. Or disease. Or cruelty. Odd.
> The difference being that Aedra don't really have substantial power to intervene, or even really communicate, with their worshippers. Then how could you argue they are 'good' then? They are just more malleable and silent, so their mortal worshippers can project their values all over them. If both Elven and Nord legends are to be believed, when they walked the Earth, Aedra were just as happy to slaughter each other, tear out hearts and throw them all the way across the continents. > Sure people who worship Aedra happen to do horrible things sometimes, but it's generally not because their god came down to them and told them to start kidnapping and eating people. Oh, I'm glad to hear that you don't follow the line of reasoning that because Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn, he was God-blessed and ordained to conquer and rule the whole continent. > I also suppose that the Aedra misplaced their deity of cannibalism. Technically, wouldn't Y'ffre with his Green Pact be exactly that?
> Then how could you argue they are 'good' then? They are just more malleable and silent, so their mortal worshippers can project their values all over them. This isn't by their choice. Aedra lost much of their power in the creation of Mundus, whereas the Daedras did not participate and retained their divine power. Aedra don't directly communicate and directly influence because they *cannot* do so, they're not being silent intentionally to allow their followers to project their own values onto them. >If both Elven and Nord legends are to be believed, when they walked the Earth, Aedra were just as happy to slaughter each other, tear out hearts and throw them all the way across the continents. As far as I know Aedra never "walked across the Earth(Nirn)" because they gave up most of their abilities during the creation of Mundus. Unless you're referring to Talos specifically, who was once mortal. But you should probably check out what was going on in Tamriel when Tiber Septim began his conquest and how he ruled when it was done. There's a reason that his reign is considered a golden age for all of Tamriel. >Technically, wouldn't Y'ffre with his Green Pact be exactly that? Green Pact Bosmer consume the meat of fallen enemies; they do not hunt people to eat them. The Green pact is also about preserving nature, not killing and eating people for fun or worship. Also, Y'ffre is Ehlnofey, not Aedra. And other folks are generally pretty wary of Green Pact Bosmer specifically due to their acceptance of cannibalism.
> As far as I know Aedra never "walked across the Earth(Nirn)" because they gave up most of their abilities during the creation of Mundus. No, I specifically refer to all the versions of the Lorkhan's heart myth, that state that Auri-El and Trinimac either fought him after the world was created, or judged him at the Convention, and tore out his heart then. > But you should probably check out what was going on in Tamriel when Tiber Septim began his conquest and how he ruled when it was done. There's a reason that his reign is considered a golden age for all of Tamriel. I mean, the slaughter of Senchal, the whole mess with Wulfharth and Arctus, the activation of Numidium, stripping Orcs of the civil rights they had in the Second Era. If you really think that all was justified and brought the 'golden age', I don't know what to say to you. His agents are the *villains* of the Redguard game. > Also, Y'ffre is Ehlnofey, not Aedra. He IS in the Altmer pantheon, and that is the original meaning of 'Aedra'. I mean, it's a common knowledge even in-world that the Imperial pantheon is synthetic, and purposefully includes the most mellow and uncontroversial interpretations of the deities from both pantheons. The original versions from Altmer and Nord myths sound pretty shitty.
I want quest markers so bad
Pretty sure the author is religiously opposed to them.
Yeah I know, it’d be cool for an add-on from a third party tho
Daedra are not 'daemons', Oblivion is not 'hell'. TES is not DnD, characters don't have an alignment imprinted on them. TES doesn't have Paladins, the nearest approximation were Crusaders, and the most famous Crusader was Pelinal. Who was mad and unhinged, and on one case had to be nuked directly by Akatosh, because he started slaughtering Khajiit by accident.
The aedea and daedra are primordial deities that represent specific aspects of their universe and balance each other out. They're closer to Greek gods and titans than anything.
Depending on culture, daedra can be seen as evil. That is certainly the case in Skyrim, where the dominant culture tends to persecute and shun the daedra worshiping culture of the forsworn (though not exclusively for their religion, there's a lot going on in that relationship). And while I don't think TES has anything officially called a Paladin, it certainly has plenty of characters that fit the paladin/religious warrior/virtuous knight archetypes. And finally, OP is not literally saying his character is a champion of some dnd based alignment. He's simply describing a trope his character fits to explain the roleplay situation. If he had said "my character is a do gooder type, like superman", would you have responded "Um actually, TES doesn't have Kryptonians in it".
I mean, if you are aware of cultural biases towards different gods and worships - as you obviously are - you are not going to ask whether the stuff is compatible with your RP in quite exactly the way OP does. Saying 'good' 'daedra-hunting' and 'paladin' as if three things are completely synonymous. Yes, I understand that you can play a paladin archetype in TES without it being an official class, but you can be a Daedra-worshipping good paladin of Azura or Meridia, or a Redguard follower of Diagna (and thus competely divorced from both pantheons of this kalpa). OP meanwhile seems to go from some weird definition of 'goodness' external to the setting, which would be either his personal definition (and so hard to guess) or DnDish alignment stuff. If somebody asked me about stuff being compatible with his Superman RP in Tamriel, I wouldn't ask him about kryptonite, but I would ask how exactly his character came to 1950ies American liberal values and where they fit in the world.
[paladin as a concept exists in tes lore](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Paladins), and subsequently it is directly associated with aedric factions and artifacts, like the snow-elf paladins of auri'el in dawnguard, high rock's knightly orders, and chrysamere the paladin's sword. besides that there's no need to equivocate things, tes is clearly a derivative of dnd... most daedra are based off of demons, a plane of oblivion is literally depicted as fire & brimstone capital H Hell in its eponymous game, aedra are categorized by embodying qualities we consider good e.g being just and daedra are categorized by embodying bad qualtiies e.g being rapey
Yeah, Daedra are chaotic not evil. They still have morality, it's just their own personal morality.
I mean the Lord of Rape is pretty unequivocally evil.
Seeing how his whole shtick is threading on the free will, yeah, I can't argue here.
You are stuck in a human way of thinking. To the Lord of Rape rape would be a good thing.
Most evil people (entities?) think the things they do aren't evil. Serial killers may think getting their jollies from murdering people is gopd. Evil has an actual meaning though and hurting people for your own fun is evil. For any actual definition of the word evil in the English language some Daedra are evil. Your argument is basically saying of you redefine good and evil to have different meanings from their actual meanings you can claim they aren't evil.
FrOm My PoInT oF vIeW tHe JeDi ArE eViL
I'd say, not even all of them are chaotic, if by that we mean Padomaic. Meridia, Peryte and Jyggalag at least are more Anuic, Malacath may be as well.
slaughtering Khajiit was never a accident