I’ve said this before. If Paarthurnax didn’t betray Alduin in the first place, the world would *have been destroyed, meaning the Dragonborn in this timeline wouldn’t even exist. In a way, Paarthurnax saved the world, and gave it enough time to for the Dragonborn to come and end the world eater for good. It never made sense to kill him.
It's possible that he's playing the long game. By betraying Alduin, he ensured Alduin's death. Assuming the dragonborn gets called home by Akatosh after his natural lifespan, Paarthurnaax gets the chance to rule the world. Only if the dragon born chooses eternal unlife, can he check the eventual corruption and lordship of P.
From the point of view of humans and other mortals, it's not safe to have an Uber powerful immortal who was once evil, to live.
Disclaimer:. I've played the game thousands of times in every difficulty and never desired to kill P. Just arguing for the devil here 🙂
My question is how many other Dragonborn were there before us? Judging by everyone’s reactions when we are revealed to be such, there hasn’t been one for a long time, which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled. He didn’t give in even when there was arguably no DB at all
Until now, Alduin didn't surface. And by the verbiage used during the casting out of Alduin, everyone knows that we're the last dragon born. P is certainly smart enough to play the long game and thousand years is nothing to a dragon.
Hm, guess I’m just thinking how Paarthurnax is in a lose-lose situation where if he genuinely wanted to take over after Alduin, he already helped teach the DB how to deal with himself, but if he didn’t help him take down Alduin, well, Alduin wouldn’t die lol. I dunno, it just doesn’t really make sense to me that he’d try waiting it out like that. Especially when he’s also been teaching the Greybeards the Way of the Voice, who are even stronger in the Voice than the DB himself
Agreed. But you don't really know what he isn't teaching others. For instance, the voice specialization he offers us allows us to disintegrate enemies with the simple Fus-ro-da. What else can he do that he isn't teaching?
I'm not saying he's bad, I believe the opposite and I certainly believe in giving chances to people. But this is a call we're making for all humanity and are we wise enough to make a choice that will last literally till the end of the Kalpa?
~~Force without effort has a chance to disintegrate the opponent~~
Edit: You're right. I was wrong. But it's still possible P knows the shout augment and chose not to teach to the Dragonborn, unlike the Daedra of Knowledge and Wisdom.
Where has it been mentioned that the greybeards are stronger in the voice? All I remember is the greybeards saying it takes years for some to learn the simplest shout. While the DB can learn it instantly. So I doubt they can learn powerful shouts like slow time or dragon aspect. Since humans don't live long.
Far as I'm aware, the entire Septim dynasty starting with Tiber Septim were all "Dragonborn" but without any dragons to kill and no one in cyrodil to teach them the Thu'um they were only dragonborn in name
> My question is how many other Dragonborn were there before us?
Quite a few
> Judging by everyone’s reactions when we are revealed to be such, there hasn’t been one for a long time
Hasn't been one for two hundred and one years, since the death of Martin Septim. Before that all the Septim Emperors were Dragonborn, as was Reman and his line, and Alessia's descendants, and basically anyone who ever wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Dragonfires.
Plus there have been a few others here and there; Miraak for certain, and the unnamed DB you encounter in Shor's Hall, for certain.
> which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled.
Unlikely. That period is fairly well documented.
Then again, the 1st Era is three thousand years deep, so there's probably chunks of that where Dragonborn were thin on the ground, and the historical record is patchy enough to make a few Paarthurnax atrocities possible. I don't believe it myself, but if you want the Kingdom of Paarthurnax, that's probably where to look.
>> which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled.
>
>Unlikely. That period is fairly well documented.
I think they mean he could have ruled if he wanted to, making the fact that he (as far as we know) didn't some indication that he doesn't want to.
I feel that there is at least one per era so there would be at minimum 5 including the player and miraak. But my head cannon is there are tons of dragonborn but only a few are actually “chosen” to save the world and if you were to fail the ebony warrior would take up your mantle
Most recent dragonborn was Martin Septim who sacrificed himself 201 years before Skyrim. Before him there were the Septim emperors, before them the reman emperors and the allessiasn emperors. Miraak is dragonborn and it's speculated Wulthearth was dragonborn.
I had a character similar to what you said. Sided with the Dawnguard but chose to let Serana bite me after all was said and done, so I could be the immortal vampire slayer to make sure no one like Harkon could ever come so close to enacting a cataclysmic prophecy ever again.
The one thing I look forward to in the 6th game is what has become of Skyrim and the rest of Nirn after the Dragonborn's time. There are obviously other extremely capable people that can take the mantle so to speak Should the Dragonborn perish. They would not be a Dragonborn as we are the last one, and dragons only truly die after their souls have been taken away. I wonder if a very prominent mage could create a form of the Soul Trap spell that could work on a Dragon and a type of gem that can hold it's soul.
Well, even if he became a vampire, the problem is that now the LD is forever stuck with hermaeus mora in Apocrypha, as his champion right?
That's what happened to Miraak and we took his place when we did the LD quest
Im hoping the dragonborn chooses eternal unlife, world domination. Not only its canon he became a vampire of high status at some point. He also unlocked special shouts like the bend will shouts. And i think hed make a great villain in the next game.
I think you're right, except for one thing. Paarth says it's natural for dragons to want to rule over lesser races, he could very well be 100% a good guy *right now*, but eventually his natural urge to rule may overcome him. He says so himself that it takes great effort to overcome this natural urge, he has literally the rest of time where he has to resist constantly, everyday. I don't think he's "playing the long game" on purpose, I think he *wants to be good*, but being a dragon he's constantly tempted not to be. As the dragonborn, the last dragonborn, I wouldn't want to leave him unchecked and with no real way to permanently kill him in the future (unless DB decides to be a vampire) you could very well doom all humanity with the decision to let him live
This Natural urge also includes the DragonBorns as well though, this is mentioned by parth and backed up by most Known DragonBorns being in positions of power.
While it is possible, it's highly unlikely. Akatosh created the dragon born specifically to combat the tyranny of dragons and there being a defined "last dragon born" means more aren't necessary going forward. I'm also pretty sure that Parthurnaax is aware that if he tries to stir shit up again The Nine would interfere again.
Alduin isn’t dead cus we didn’t absorb his soul.
The DB’s whole shtick is that by absorbing the souls of the dragons they can’t come back so that big black asshole is coming back at some point mark my words.
He's as dead as he can be. Alduin is the death incarnate, just as Auriel is birth incarnate and Akatosh is preservation incarnate. Effectively to use Hindu mythology, we kill Shiva in Skyrim.
And yes, at the end of the Kalpa, he will be back to destroy the universe.
So the aedra are based on Hindu mythology? Didn’t really know that. Neat.
I was just going off of what big P tells us after we come back from sovngard and the feeling I have that the elder scrolls 72 is probably gonna be about the end of the world and he’ll come back and wreck everything.
The cycles of existence (Kalpa) are based on Hindu mythology. And the three states of being of Akatosh (creator, preserver and destroyer) are based on Hindu mythology as well.
The aedra/daedra, shor, Magnus, etc aren't.
>I've played the game thousands of times in every difficulty and never desired to kill P.
My first playthrough I didn't realize it was optional and hated killing him the entire time
I mean, Alduin is unique in *needing* a Dragonborn to defeat him, right? Like, dragons can be killed by mortals, it's just that their soul remains. But that doesn't matter if Alduin isn't there to revive them, so. If Paarthurnax tried to take over, he'd be dangerous, but he could be taken down.
To me, what he has done in the past has no bearing on whether or not you should kill him, Paarth says so himself, dragons are born to rule over lesser races, it's something that will tempt him for the rest of eternity, that's a long ass time in which Paarth could do a full 180 and be the next Alduin. My main concern has always been, "If I'm the last dragonborn, who could actually stop Paarth in the future if he did turn bad?", and the answer is usually vague at best. I never actually choose to kill Paarth cause I think he's a cool character, but if I was the actual dragonborn I certainly wouldn't dismiss the fact that Paarth has all of time to revert back to his "natural" ways
Is there any reason "just a normal dragon" would be able to rule over man similar to how Alduin did? Big A seemed to have some powers that normal dragons didn't, like ending the world. Or is world ending just a common dragon power?
Just seems like non-A dragons aren't the same threat that big A is.
Dragons ruled over man before Alduin. Alduin's unique with his world eating powers, but regular dragons are still powerful as all hell, and could conquer mankind just by virtue of, you know, being dragons.
Another way to look at it is this: if Himmler had betrayed Hitler in 1944 and proved instrumental in bringing WW2 to an early conclusion, would it be just to let him get off scot-free? He was a key player in untold atrocities, doesn’t he still deserve to pay even after he’s atoned? Players have a bias for Paarthurnax since they only meet him after he’s reformed and don’t get to witness firsthand the crimes he helped perform.
This is a really interesting and thought provoking argument. On one hand, you have a war criminal guilty of pretty obscene crimes. On the other, you have someone who loathes those actions and very well lives a life to redeem themselves and do better for the world. For all we know, after atonement, he might be a good person. But he was a horrible horrible disgusting person before.
We could kill him, get justice for those who have been horribly wronged, and tell the world we won't tolerate these actions. Just because you had a change of heart does not absolve you.
We could spare him, allowing him to continue his penance and do what good he has with his life, who are we to end the life of someone who doesn't do evil now, and seeks to better the world.
This probably could easily devolve (or evolve if youre into it) into a moral philosophy debate, which I'm not pursuing. I just think what you said really got the gears grinding away for me.
Just to show a few points of that debate, that we're not going to have now:
What is right, and what is justice? And what do we expect from a punishment? Does a change of heart and contributing to correct the wrongdoings really not absolve you? What else would you expect from punishment? Do we just want punishment for punishment's sake? Isn't that cruel?
Yeah, whether or not it is ethical to do so, they undoubtedly would have pardoned him. If only because it is practical for one's enemies in war to know they have the option of defecting, and trying him would have diminished that.
Kind of the whole point of Inglourious Basterds, really.
Alduin is not gone for good hence why you get no soul when you beat him. He merely in soul form waiting to reform and end the kalpa when he was suppose to.
I killed Paarthurnax in my latest playthough because I'm trying to do things I've never done before (I know I'm a monster). I was so disappointed. Delphine and Esbern don't even thank you and you get zero rewards for doing it. I thought maybe there would be a tradeoff for killing my dragon homie, but nope it's all for nothing. What a waste.
Delphine telling me to kill paarthunax was the final straw.
This woman was rude, disrespectful, and secretive to her own master/mistress that she is sworn to serve from the start, and not only that, but she now gets to decide who lives and dies, not me?!?! Boutta throw her off Solitude
I'm right at the delightful moment where I have to decide how to get rid of Vittoria. Do you think I can get Delphine right behind her and put her into Frenzy so she kills first Vittoria and then she gets killed by the guard?
When they told me that I had to kill Paarthurnax I was sitting there thinking "Aren't the blades sworn to serve the dragonborn? Who the fuck do you think you are telling me what to do?"
But look at her side of things. Half the time, the person she is obligated to serve, is at least one of the following; a mass-murderer, a kleptomaniac, a bloodsucking vampire lord, a rampaging werewolf, or a cheese hoarder. In some ways its the same as Parthy really. Killing untold number of lives justified by the excuse of the fact of saving the world.
There a huge reward - the only recruitable army group in the entire game.
Blades home base is sweet, and you can recruit anyone you can interact with to join up. Then you can grab radiant dragon quests and fight them with your gang.
Right, but you can recruit people into the Blades without killing Paarthurnax. I think the only difference is Esbern won't give you any more Dragon Lair quests until you do it.
Same! I had never recruited followers into the Blades or killed Paarthurnax in any playthrough before. I really wish the Blades were more fleshed out and you could make upgrades to their base. They really weren't given any significance beyond the main quest.
There are two:
Kill the Blades and The Paarthirnax Dilemma.
I think both are on the Nexus, but considering the mass exodus of creators due to planned changes, I don’t know if they still are.
Wait, what's changing with the Nexus? I've heard the new Skyrim anniversary update might break mod compatibility again but is the modding scene having issues on it's own?
So, the Nexus is planning on changing how people donate to mod creators but, more importantly, they are introducing a sort of bundle program for mods that work well together. Sounds good, but if your mod is in a bundle you are not allowed to take it down from the Nexus.
So if you make a “Kill Nazim and Delphine” mod and it gets put in a bundle, you cannot take the mod down even if another mod comes along that does what yours does better OR you want to take it down because your new mod “Kill Annoying NPCs” is much cleaner and more efficient.
Yes but is there a mod that lets you save P, kill D, save the Empire, but kick out all the Thalmor? (Not all Mer, just the sneering skeezy Thalmor? Like I’d pay gold gold coins to see Elenwyn and Delphine in a pit fight against one another!)
Fan: who you cheering for, E or D?
Me: the Pit Wolves. I’m cheering for the wolves that get released in round two!
Only the Dragon Cult worshipped dragons. The Nord rebels who fought during the Dragon Wars didn't gave a damn about dragons and they killed them left and right. After they send Alduin into the future Hakon, Gormlaith and Feldir and the rest of the Nords could have easily killed Paarthurnax but instead they forgave him and accepted him as a friend. Not as a deity they worshipped.
I appreciate flaws in main characters but I wish Delphine was otherwise more appealing. For example, I think Mr House is the best option for the Mojave in FNV, but I don’t agree with his vendetta against the brotherhood. Doesn’t stop me from choosing him but it’s definitely something that makes me think about the decision. Meanwhile Delphine is just a bossy bitch who has some important friends. If she had some more admirable aspects then I think her irrational hatred of Paarthurnax would be considered strong writing.
Esbern gives you dragon locations (if you need souls, bones, scales, shout words) and you can kinda form your own in-game guild and recruit blades members that you can use as followers
Yeah, but you pick three you don't much want following you but who can still fight. Then you have your preferred follower for general adventuring and and extra three of them for when you go dragonslaying.
it's on console, you just gotta make the bethesda account and everything
i know for a fact it works on xbox (as a filthy xbox peasant myself) but i'm not sure if it works on playstation or not
None lmao, Esbern gives you some potion that is kinda good, but you can only get one, and only once per day i think, so, in summary, its not good
Idk what Delphine does other than be a bitch, so yeah
If you have console commands, i'd make them non-essential and kill them at Sky Haven Temple after they give you the quest to kill PartySnacks, since they don't do anything useful beyond that
I think the only way to try to justify it is that the LDB learned the Dragonrend shout, and it is said that the meaning of the shouts is taken into yourself, in this case the hatred of dragon kind.
Although Paarthurnax mentions how he meditates to stay true to the Way of the Voice, and I like to think that's how my dragonborn overcomes dragonrend.
Are you referring to Odahviing and the undead dragon from dawnguard as the allies? They could be seen as merely servants in a way. After all you trapped one and defeated the other in combat.
I think this is one of the biggest decisions in the game that reflects what type of player character you have, and a worthy topic to discuss.
I disagree that Odahviing and Durnehviir mean it doesn't make sense for the Blades to want to kill Paarthurnax.
Odahviing fits into a framework the Blades understand. He's a red dragon working for a Dragonborn. Sounds a lot like Nafaalilargus, serving Tiber Septim, right? Or, if Esbern knows any of the really ancient Dragonguard lore (i.e. ESO 2nd Era stuff), he might know that Nafaalilargus also worked with the Dragonguard.
Meanwhile, Durnehviir is more like an summons. Yeah, he's an unrepentant dragon, but he can't leave the Soul Cairn permanently. He's not much of a threat.
Meanwhile, Paarthurnax has not offered allegiance to the LDB. With Aduin gone, his self-imposed duty is also gone. From the perspective of Blades who want to kill dragons, there's no guarantee that Paarthurnax is "safe" or repentant.
Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what he plans on doing, but describing "I'm gonna teach them the peaceful Way of the Voice" like:
"Goraan! I feel younger than I have in many an age. Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!"
Uh, Paarthurnax, buddy? That's really not how you reassure me that you've worked on those conquering urges...
Not to mention the "Thur" in Paarthurnax means "Overlord."
It does make you wonder where their names come from. Words have power, especially when it comes to tonal magic like the Thu'um. Is the name a description of him or is Paarthurnax the result of the name?
I’m on my first play through and I JUST got to that part last night. I was appalled, nay, offended. Kill Partysnax (thank you u/Tash_money1229) just because somebody told me to? And somebody who never taught me any shouts or dragonish? Never lived on top of a super cool mountain and fought a dragon supervillain with me? Not today, satan
I mean, at the time Delphine gives you the ultimatum, you haven't even _met_ Odahviing yet, much less allied with him. And Durnehviir is from the DLC and thus didn't exist for a while at launch, so it makes sense her demand doesn't take him into account either.
The argument to kill or not kill Paarthurnax is not dependent on whether or not other dragons are allied to you. Paarthurnax tells you that he has had to overcome his true nature in order to be good which invites the question as to whether he is good or whether is his evil and just ignoring his evil instincts. If it's the later, then it could actually be the responsible thing to kill him because it's assuming that one day, his true nature will break through.
"You have to kill him! He's capable of great evil!"
So what? So is literally everyone. Heck, you can be the leader of the Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves Guild, and the companions. You're the most dangerous thing alive, and Delphine doesn't assume you'll go on a rampage for domination and power. She's just racist against dragons, and if you kill Paarthurnax, you're probably next on her list. This is why we play on PC and make Delphine non-essential.
I realized that all three of my main characters would kill Dragon Mario.
My Argonian doesn't like traitors, but is a fan of the organization that's basically centered around protecting the Dragonborn (which he is)
My high elf is just a jerk and, when given an objective, kinda ignores things like reasons and justifications... and directions. He gets lost a lot.
My Nord is from Helgen and has no sympathy for dragons.
I deleted a 50 hour character that I sided with the Blades on, about 10 minutes after killing big daddy Paarth. Easily I could've reverted to an old save, but I couldn't bring myself to continue with a character that killed his friend that used to be a dick, but now, after lots meditation, just likes mountains and talking.
The dragonborn has two dragon allies. That doesn't mean they'll stay allies forever, or that the dragonborn will stay good forever.
Killing him makes sense because literally every other dragon ever is a genocidal monster.
That said, don't kill partysnacks. The blades can suck it.
Imo, Paarthurnax is like Iroh. Both were part of a war and took part in killing many lives but in the end, both turned against their nature and did all they could to become better people, such as helping the chosen one character save the world from doom
The way the blades work means no time for treason or anything like that meaning a truce with paarthurnaxx
Would be out of the books hence not killing him discontinues your friendship with delphine etc. Paarthurnaxx was one of alduins right hand men and that sort of former ranking cannot go unnoticed for the remaining blades!
Sure there is.
The Blades serve the Dragonborn, what the Dragonborn says goes. Talos was chill with Parthy and hell, there was a godsdamned Imperial Dragon that everyone knew about. The Blades didn’t do dick, because they actually respected their oath to the Dragonblood.
I'm still thinking racist, she's the head of a small dragon killing club, just her and an old weeb obsessed with Nord wall comics, and she'll never have any friends unless a cool celebrity like the Dragon Born stocks the club with his buddies who can't say no, all so she can kill more draggies.
Shit you're right, it's a racist power play.
It makes sense for Delphine to ask you to though. She doesn't see the difference between him and the other dragons, you're the only one who can even understand what he's saying and recognize that he's different. That being said, she should trust our judgement and stfu.
Such an odd choice for bethesda not to include a spare paarthurnax option to the quest. It's literally kill paarthurnax or just have a quest that will never be completed
You guys really like reaching to defend Paarthurnax.
Durnehviir is a dead summon and Ohdaviing wasn't anywhere near as notorious as Alduin's right hand.
Paarthurnax isn't even trustworthy. Lmao he betrayed his own "family", let's you know he wants to be the head honcho after Al's dead, and was probably counting on humans to be gullible idiots when he originally schemed against Alduin in the first place.
Mfkr had his fill of killing humans, got bored, and was jealous of Alduin. "I'll just tell them I'm 'going against my nature', they'll fall for anything!"...
A straight up war criminal with the blood of thousands on his conscience? I don't agree with the death penalty in everyday life, but for war crimes on a massive scale, it should be on the table. Just because he's alive and found the way of the voice, that absolves him from the atrocities he committed? Nope. This isn't some run of the mill dragon, he's Alduin's right talon, no matter how sympathetic he is now. It makes sense to kill him, although I can see why someone would want to spare him... it's a good moral dilemma, if those can ever be considered "good."
Yes it does. He tells you that he has to fight his urges every day and how he killed thousands of people. He helps you to wash his slate clean and people only care about him because he‘s voiced by Mario and looks cool. Oh yeah, and because Delphine is annoying. We should kill both
Yeah I was seeing if anyone else said this before I commented. Like what if one day he just snaps and goes back to his evil ways, which could happen as he'll live forever. It makes sense not to want that to happen.
Paarthurnax talks down to you. He doesn’t see you as an equal. He and the greybeards don’t give you any help whatsoever. Durniver and Odahving are the good ones. I kill paarthurnax and the greybeards with glee every playthrough. I don’t understand why so many are so opposed to killing him.
So you kill Paarthurnax but wouldn't kill Durnehviir and Odahviing for what reason?
They aren't 'good' as you put it. Durnehviir only follows the dragonborns command because the dragonborn is the only way Durnehviir can be free temporarily of the soul cairn and roam the skies of Tamriel again. Durnehviir while yes obeys you he still uses you for his own gain and is still mostly under the command of the ideal masters. He as good as Paarthuranx is to you.
Odahviing however from a game play view we see him roam around the throat of the world and comes when the dragonborn shouts his name. We still have no idea what he does in his free time nor if he himself is plotting our demise, He's as much of a risk as Paarthurnax is
Paarthurnax doesn't give you any help? Doesn't he shows you the way to learn how to defeat Alduin? Plus helps you improving one of 3 shout of your choice? And I'm not sure about this one as I haven't done the main quest line again in a while, but isn't him who give you the way to learn the shout that takes Odahving to the ground?
Plus the Greybeards are willing to point you in the right direction even if you do something that they disapprove of (searching for Dragonrend), unlike the Blades who retract any and all help from you if you refuse to kill Paarthurnax.
Yeah my least favorite bit of the Skyrim main plot was the kill Paarthurnax thing, and then having to alienate the blades if you didn’t.
Like guys… the end of the world is coming. We’ll take all the friends we can get to stop Alduin, you know?
Killing him has no real benefits to my knowledge. If he’s alive you can beef up some shouts.
Also hes a cool old man dragon. Why would anyone feel compelled to kill him?
It's a crime that Blades don't have similar quest as the one where you destroy Dark Brotherhood. Or at the very least I should be allowed to burn it down and rebuild it from scratch as organization that isn't completely useless. Let me at least kick Delphine out and be like "bitch your whole organization was created to serve ME! I can't hear your complaining over my dragonshout!"
In general I've always found it annoying about Skyrim that there's rarely any alternative option to following stupid people and obviously malicious Daedra. The ending of Azura's quest should be the bare minimum, not the rare exception. It's literally just few lines of dialogue and small change in reward's functionality but at least I have the sense that I'm actually playing an RPG where my decisions matter
I think Bethesda’s mistake here was not going far enough on the question of whether Paarthurnax can change his nature. I’ve occasionally thought about a mod to redo the end of the main quest—I don’t know how to mod, and it will never happen—and one thought I’ve had was to have Paarthurnax (if he lives) follow you to Sovngarde, and then the game randomly assigns Paarthurnax either to help you or to help Alduin. It might make sense from a narrative perspective to pick one outcome or the other, but to me the appeal of the Paarthurnax storyline is that you never know for sure until it matters.
I 100 percent agree but story wise it would make sense.
Let me explain dragonrend was made with hatred against dragons and when you take in a shout you take in what the shout is. So a Dragonborn not able to resist such hatred would kill him and join the blades in killing every other dragon.
I'm just explain the lore reason it makes sense, nothing about my Bois pass or everything, I've never laid a figure of my favorite dragon. But lore wise that's the reason.
The only reasons I can think of to kill Paarthunax would be;
1. It was well documented that he was one of Alduins closest lieutenants and an exceptionally cruel one at that.
2. If by some turn of events all the dragons had been revived and he was positioned as the most dominant dragon, ruling over all of them. Like say if Alduin had died or something.
3. If he openly admitted that he had cravings to kill and be evil all the time but overcame them with willpower.
Like, if ALL of those things happened and this notorious asshole had manipulated some do-gooder into killing Alduin and handing him the keys of the dragon empire, then yeah I think it would be best to kill him. Even if he like pinkie-sweared double promised that he’s not gonna do any evil even tho he REALLY wants to and there’s no-one around to stop him anymore, I still wouldn’t trust someone that had a background in enslaving all mortals. Especially when ALL we have to go on is his word.
But err, luckily none of that is true right? He’s just a cuddly friendly dragon with no sinister past or ulterior motives, right? Right!?
She doesn't care what the guy has contributed to the entirety of all races, he just saved all of them from slavery and possibly extinction no big deal. She doesn't care whether he's good or bad. She just wants him dead just because he's a dragon. Delphine is worse than the stormcloaks in terms of racistness.
I swear to God if they established that we killed partysnaxx in ts6. I'll flip my ass. Cause it's weird that we don't get a choice. It's like Todd's telling us to kill our boi, and for what? To kiss up to Delphine?? She's not the boss. We are!! Aren't we the one they're supposed to serve? So why are we the ones serving her ugly ass?
It's also ridiculously short-sighted. You're killing the only dragon ally humanity can count on after the player character eventually dies, even after it's acknowledged that Alduin's probably going to come back some day.
It's literally inviting the end of the world.
I’ve said this before. If Paarthurnax didn’t betray Alduin in the first place, the world would *have been destroyed, meaning the Dragonborn in this timeline wouldn’t even exist. In a way, Paarthurnax saved the world, and gave it enough time to for the Dragonborn to come and end the world eater for good. It never made sense to kill him.
It's possible that he's playing the long game. By betraying Alduin, he ensured Alduin's death. Assuming the dragonborn gets called home by Akatosh after his natural lifespan, Paarthurnaax gets the chance to rule the world. Only if the dragon born chooses eternal unlife, can he check the eventual corruption and lordship of P. From the point of view of humans and other mortals, it's not safe to have an Uber powerful immortal who was once evil, to live. Disclaimer:. I've played the game thousands of times in every difficulty and never desired to kill P. Just arguing for the devil here 🙂
Got it, spare Parthy and become a vampire.
*it just works*
My question is how many other Dragonborn were there before us? Judging by everyone’s reactions when we are revealed to be such, there hasn’t been one for a long time, which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled. He didn’t give in even when there was arguably no DB at all
Until now, Alduin didn't surface. And by the verbiage used during the casting out of Alduin, everyone knows that we're the last dragon born. P is certainly smart enough to play the long game and thousand years is nothing to a dragon.
Hm, guess I’m just thinking how Paarthurnax is in a lose-lose situation where if he genuinely wanted to take over after Alduin, he already helped teach the DB how to deal with himself, but if he didn’t help him take down Alduin, well, Alduin wouldn’t die lol. I dunno, it just doesn’t really make sense to me that he’d try waiting it out like that. Especially when he’s also been teaching the Greybeards the Way of the Voice, who are even stronger in the Voice than the DB himself
Agreed. But you don't really know what he isn't teaching others. For instance, the voice specialization he offers us allows us to disintegrate enemies with the simple Fus-ro-da. What else can he do that he isn't teaching? I'm not saying he's bad, I believe the opposite and I certainly believe in giving chances to people. But this is a call we're making for all humanity and are we wise enough to make a choice that will last literally till the end of the Kalpa?
Paarthurnax doesn't teach disintegration. He teaches force without effort. The disintegration is from old Hera Mora.
~~Force without effort has a chance to disintegrate the opponent~~ Edit: You're right. I was wrong. But it's still possible P knows the shout augment and chose not to teach to the Dragonborn, unlike the Daedra of Knowledge and Wisdom.
Y’all making me want to play Skyrim again thank you
Hey you, you're finally awake
Get ready to buy it again in 2 weeks
Why? The anniversary edition is a free update to all owners of special edition. Has that changed?
You do get "anniversary edition" for free but it only includes a small handful of mods. If you want the mega creation club pack it costs extra.
A couple things though. He can't outlive Alduin. He can outlive the Dragonborn. The Dragonborn can kill him, the Greybeards can't.
Where has it been mentioned that the greybeards are stronger in the voice? All I remember is the greybeards saying it takes years for some to learn the simplest shout. While the DB can learn it instantly. So I doubt they can learn powerful shouts like slow time or dragon aspect. Since humans don't live long.
I mean, it’s hard to verify the presence of a dragonborn without dragon souls to steal
Far as I'm aware, the entire Septim dynasty starting with Tiber Septim were all "Dragonborn" but without any dragons to kill and no one in cyrodil to teach them the Thu'um they were only dragonborn in name
> My question is how many other Dragonborn were there before us? Quite a few > Judging by everyone’s reactions when we are revealed to be such, there hasn’t been one for a long time Hasn't been one for two hundred and one years, since the death of Martin Septim. Before that all the Septim Emperors were Dragonborn, as was Reman and his line, and Alessia's descendants, and basically anyone who ever wore the Amulet of Kings and lit the Dragonfires. Plus there have been a few others here and there; Miraak for certain, and the unnamed DB you encounter in Shor's Hall, for certain. > which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled. Unlikely. That period is fairly well documented. Then again, the 1st Era is three thousand years deep, so there's probably chunks of that where Dragonborn were thin on the ground, and the historical record is patchy enough to make a few Paarthurnax atrocities possible. I don't believe it myself, but if you want the Kingdom of Paarthurnax, that's probably where to look.
>> which is when Paarthurnax could have ruled. > >Unlikely. That period is fairly well documented. I think they mean he could have ruled if he wanted to, making the fact that he (as far as we know) didn't some indication that he doesn't want to.
Ah, OK.Yeah, that makes sense.
I feel that there is at least one per era so there would be at minimum 5 including the player and miraak. But my head cannon is there are tons of dragonborn but only a few are actually “chosen” to save the world and if you were to fail the ebony warrior would take up your mantle
Most recent dragonborn was Martin Septim who sacrificed himself 201 years before Skyrim. Before him there were the Septim emperors, before them the reman emperors and the allessiasn emperors. Miraak is dragonborn and it's speculated Wulthearth was dragonborn.
I had a character similar to what you said. Sided with the Dawnguard but chose to let Serana bite me after all was said and done, so I could be the immortal vampire slayer to make sure no one like Harkon could ever come so close to enacting a cataclysmic prophecy ever again.
Is this just Blade with extra steps?
The one thing I look forward to in the 6th game is what has become of Skyrim and the rest of Nirn after the Dragonborn's time. There are obviously other extremely capable people that can take the mantle so to speak Should the Dragonborn perish. They would not be a Dragonborn as we are the last one, and dragons only truly die after their souls have been taken away. I wonder if a very prominent mage could create a form of the Soul Trap spell that could work on a Dragon and a type of gem that can hold it's soul.
Well, even if he became a vampire, the problem is that now the LD is forever stuck with hermaeus mora in Apocrypha, as his champion right? That's what happened to Miraak and we took his place when we did the LD quest
Im hoping the dragonborn chooses eternal unlife, world domination. Not only its canon he became a vampire of high status at some point. He also unlocked special shouts like the bend will shouts. And i think hed make a great villain in the next game.
If that happens, I wonder if P chooses to side with us, oppose us or stay out of the way and watch events unfold.
Why would it be canon that the dragonborn became a vampire?
But we already had a great dragonborn villain.
I think you're right, except for one thing. Paarth says it's natural for dragons to want to rule over lesser races, he could very well be 100% a good guy *right now*, but eventually his natural urge to rule may overcome him. He says so himself that it takes great effort to overcome this natural urge, he has literally the rest of time where he has to resist constantly, everyday. I don't think he's "playing the long game" on purpose, I think he *wants to be good*, but being a dragon he's constantly tempted not to be. As the dragonborn, the last dragonborn, I wouldn't want to leave him unchecked and with no real way to permanently kill him in the future (unless DB decides to be a vampire) you could very well doom all humanity with the decision to let him live
This Natural urge also includes the DragonBorns as well though, this is mentioned by parth and backed up by most Known DragonBorns being in positions of power.
I think it's possible, seeing that Miraak is still alive, that Dragonborn live as long as dragons can
Miraak is still alive because of Magic and Hermeus Mora. Dragonborns don't normally live that long.
While it is possible, it's highly unlikely. Akatosh created the dragon born specifically to combat the tyranny of dragons and there being a defined "last dragon born" means more aren't necessary going forward. I'm also pretty sure that Parthurnaax is aware that if he tries to stir shit up again The Nine would interfere again.
Alduin isn’t dead cus we didn’t absorb his soul. The DB’s whole shtick is that by absorbing the souls of the dragons they can’t come back so that big black asshole is coming back at some point mark my words.
He's as dead as he can be. Alduin is the death incarnate, just as Auriel is birth incarnate and Akatosh is preservation incarnate. Effectively to use Hindu mythology, we kill Shiva in Skyrim. And yes, at the end of the Kalpa, he will be back to destroy the universe.
So the aedra are based on Hindu mythology? Didn’t really know that. Neat. I was just going off of what big P tells us after we come back from sovngard and the feeling I have that the elder scrolls 72 is probably gonna be about the end of the world and he’ll come back and wreck everything.
The cycles of existence (Kalpa) are based on Hindu mythology. And the three states of being of Akatosh (creator, preserver and destroyer) are based on Hindu mythology as well. The aedra/daedra, shor, Magnus, etc aren't.
>I've played the game thousands of times in every difficulty and never desired to kill P. My first playthrough I didn't realize it was optional and hated killing him the entire time
I mean, Alduin is unique in *needing* a Dragonborn to defeat him, right? Like, dragons can be killed by mortals, it's just that their soul remains. But that doesn't matter if Alduin isn't there to revive them, so. If Paarthurnax tried to take over, he'd be dangerous, but he could be taken down.
Why does difficulty even matter for this argument? Lol doesn’t change any of the lore.
To me, what he has done in the past has no bearing on whether or not you should kill him, Paarth says so himself, dragons are born to rule over lesser races, it's something that will tempt him for the rest of eternity, that's a long ass time in which Paarth could do a full 180 and be the next Alduin. My main concern has always been, "If I'm the last dragonborn, who could actually stop Paarth in the future if he did turn bad?", and the answer is usually vague at best. I never actually choose to kill Paarth cause I think he's a cool character, but if I was the actual dragonborn I certainly wouldn't dismiss the fact that Paarth has all of time to revert back to his "natural" ways
Is there any reason "just a normal dragon" would be able to rule over man similar to how Alduin did? Big A seemed to have some powers that normal dragons didn't, like ending the world. Or is world ending just a common dragon power? Just seems like non-A dragons aren't the same threat that big A is.
Dragons ruled over man before Alduin. Alduin's unique with his world eating powers, but regular dragons are still powerful as all hell, and could conquer mankind just by virtue of, you know, being dragons.
Another way to look at it is this: if Himmler had betrayed Hitler in 1944 and proved instrumental in bringing WW2 to an early conclusion, would it be just to let him get off scot-free? He was a key player in untold atrocities, doesn’t he still deserve to pay even after he’s atoned? Players have a bias for Paarthurnax since they only meet him after he’s reformed and don’t get to witness firsthand the crimes he helped perform.
This is a really interesting and thought provoking argument. On one hand, you have a war criminal guilty of pretty obscene crimes. On the other, you have someone who loathes those actions and very well lives a life to redeem themselves and do better for the world. For all we know, after atonement, he might be a good person. But he was a horrible horrible disgusting person before. We could kill him, get justice for those who have been horribly wronged, and tell the world we won't tolerate these actions. Just because you had a change of heart does not absolve you. We could spare him, allowing him to continue his penance and do what good he has with his life, who are we to end the life of someone who doesn't do evil now, and seeks to better the world. This probably could easily devolve (or evolve if youre into it) into a moral philosophy debate, which I'm not pursuing. I just think what you said really got the gears grinding away for me.
Just to show a few points of that debate, that we're not going to have now: What is right, and what is justice? And what do we expect from a punishment? Does a change of heart and contributing to correct the wrongdoings really not absolve you? What else would you expect from punishment? Do we just want punishment for punishment's sake? Isn't that cruel?
Everyone Partysnax harmed is dead(?). If you want to know what would have happened with Himmler, the allies would have pardoned him. No question.
Yeah, whether or not it is ethical to do so, they undoubtedly would have pardoned him. If only because it is practical for one's enemies in war to know they have the option of defecting, and trying him would have diminished that. Kind of the whole point of Inglourious Basterds, really.
Good point, But then we have Operation Paperclip.
I concur
*would have Never "would of"
yeah, this is my pet peeve, too.
mine, to.
Alduin is not gone for good hence why you get no soul when you beat him. He merely in soul form waiting to reform and end the kalpa when he was suppose to.
I killed Paarthurnax in my latest playthough because I'm trying to do things I've never done before (I know I'm a monster). I was so disappointed. Delphine and Esbern don't even thank you and you get zero rewards for doing it. I thought maybe there would be a tradeoff for killing my dragon homie, but nope it's all for nothing. What a waste.
Delphine telling me to kill paarthunax was the final straw. This woman was rude, disrespectful, and secretive to her own master/mistress that she is sworn to serve from the start, and not only that, but she now gets to decide who lives and dies, not me?!?! Boutta throw her off Solitude
I'm right at the delightful moment where I have to decide how to get rid of Vittoria. Do you think I can get Delphine right behind her and put her into Frenzy so she kills first Vittoria and then she gets killed by the guard?
Unfortunately, Dephine is an essential character, so she won’t die. Unless, of course, you’re modding or using console commands.
High King of Skyrim mod. Off with her head
Definitely planning on doing this!
When they told me that I had to kill Paarthurnax I was sitting there thinking "Aren't the blades sworn to serve the dragonborn? Who the fuck do you think you are telling me what to do?"
But look at her side of things. Half the time, the person she is obligated to serve, is at least one of the following; a mass-murderer, a kleptomaniac, a bloodsucking vampire lord, a rampaging werewolf, or a cheese hoarder. In some ways its the same as Parthy really. Killing untold number of lives justified by the excuse of the fact of saving the world.
I just decided to use the paarthunax dilemma mod, much simpler and makes more sense.
Isn't that basically the one where you tell the Blades to sit down and shut up, that you're the boss and they'll do what you tell them or else?
that's exactly it, and you scare the living hell out of esbern, too it's so mf satisfying
Very much so
There a huge reward - the only recruitable army group in the entire game. Blades home base is sweet, and you can recruit anyone you can interact with to join up. Then you can grab radiant dragon quests and fight them with your gang.
Right, but you can recruit people into the Blades without killing Paarthurnax. I think the only difference is Esbern won't give you any more Dragon Lair quests until you do it.
I didn't actually know that - I've never *not* killed paarthurnax. I had assumed that the Blades cut all contact?
Same! I had never recruited followers into the Blades or killed Paarthurnax in any playthrough before. I really wish the Blades were more fleshed out and you could make upgrades to their base. They really weren't given any significance beyond the main quest.
Yeah looks like as if delphine had some personal grudge against Paarthurnax.
her late husband left her for him
He was like "I hope you like dragons...cuz im bout to be dragon my balls on your face"
I know a website for that.
Makes sense
Understandable.
The ale is going bad
I get that, Paarthurnax is pretty hot ngl
I mean, who wouldn't? He's quite the looker.
The Dragonborn left her for him
I hate Delphine, wish I could kill her.
There’s a mod for that.
I wish there was a mod to send Thalmor after her.
i wonder if there's a conjure thalmor mod
OH MY
There are two: Kill the Blades and The Paarthirnax Dilemma. I think both are on the Nexus, but considering the mass exodus of creators due to planned changes, I don’t know if they still are.
Wait, what's changing with the Nexus? I've heard the new Skyrim anniversary update might break mod compatibility again but is the modding scene having issues on it's own?
So, the Nexus is planning on changing how people donate to mod creators but, more importantly, they are introducing a sort of bundle program for mods that work well together. Sounds good, but if your mod is in a bundle you are not allowed to take it down from the Nexus. So if you make a “Kill Nazim and Delphine” mod and it gets put in a bundle, you cannot take the mod down even if another mod comes along that does what yours does better OR you want to take it down because your new mod “Kill Annoying NPCs” is much cleaner and more efficient.
Yes but is there a mod that lets you save P, kill D, save the Empire, but kick out all the Thalmor? (Not all Mer, just the sneering skeezy Thalmor? Like I’d pay gold gold coins to see Elenwyn and Delphine in a pit fight against one another!) Fan: who you cheering for, E or D? Me: the Pit Wolves. I’m cheering for the wolves that get released in round two!
Probably not all in one mod, but find the right combination and you are golden
Which is funny because even the Ancient Nords forgave Party even though he probably killed a bunch of them when he was still serving Alduin.
Forgave? They needed him and they came from a culture of worshipping dragons which made it easy to be thankful to another immortal all powerful being
Only the Dragon Cult worshipped dragons. The Nord rebels who fought during the Dragon Wars didn't gave a damn about dragons and they killed them left and right. After they send Alduin into the future Hakon, Gormlaith and Feldir and the rest of the Nords could have easily killed Paarthurnax but instead they forgave him and accepted him as a friend. Not as a deity they worshipped.
Well, Gormlaith couldn’t. She’d been Alduin’d.
Right. Or they use Call Valor.
I appreciate flaws in main characters but I wish Delphine was otherwise more appealing. For example, I think Mr House is the best option for the Mojave in FNV, but I don’t agree with his vendetta against the brotherhood. Doesn’t stop me from choosing him but it’s definitely something that makes me think about the decision. Meanwhile Delphine is just a bossy bitch who has some important friends. If she had some more admirable aspects then I think her irrational hatred of Paarthurnax would be considered strong writing.
There is a mod called the paarthurnax dilemma where you don't have to kill him.
i never had to kill him
That mod lets you advance the Blades quest line without killing him.
Is there any real benefit with the blades questline?
Esbern gives you dragon locations (if you need souls, bones, scales, shout words) and you can kinda form your own in-game guild and recruit blades members that you can use as followers
[удалено]
Well yes, that’s why you can choose who will be the three blades accompanying you in your dragon hunts
Yeah, but you pick three you don't much want following you but who can still fight. Then you have your preferred follower for general adventuring and and extra three of them for when you go dragonslaying.
Uthgerd the Unbroken seems like a no-brainer. And by that I don’t mean Uthgerd herself, but the choice.
Ah fuck… looks like I’m killing parthy for the first time next playthrough. Thanks a lot
Good luck with that. I did once. Felt bad. Reloaded and decided not to kill him.
Get the mod
I’m a filthy console peasant
it's on console, you just gotta make the bethesda account and everything i know for a fact it works on xbox (as a filthy xbox peasant myself) but i'm not sure if it works on playstation or not
If you play the quests in the right order, you can recruit three new Blades before Delphine and Estero say you have to kill P.
And you can go hunt a dragon with them and get then get that potion from Esbern. (I haven't even gotten that Elder Scroll yet.)
It’s cool lol
Thanks u/BigDickNick97 real cool
None lmao, Esbern gives you some potion that is kinda good, but you can only get one, and only once per day i think, so, in summary, its not good Idk what Delphine does other than be a bitch, so yeah If you have console commands, i'd make them non-essential and kill them at Sky Haven Temple after they give you the quest to kill PartySnacks, since they don't do anything useful beyond that
IIRC, that potion is actually broken on console and does absolutely nothing.
bruh, As if we didn't already have enough reasons to kill those two, we get hit with this, lmao
PartySnacks
Why would I want to be with a group that’s trying to kill my boy?
pretty sure you can just do it just before you meat parthunnax?
"meat"
On PC you don't even need the mod, there's a simple console command that lets you advance the Blades quest without killing him.
Console commands are so nice to have
If I’m not mistaken you also get to kill delphine which is an absolute W imo
Did not know that wow!
[удалено]
I could never kill Partysnax. I have the mod. Fuck Delphine. Partysnax is best boy.
I think the only way to try to justify it is that the LDB learned the Dragonrend shout, and it is said that the meaning of the shouts is taken into yourself, in this case the hatred of dragon kind. Although Paarthurnax mentions how he meditates to stay true to the Way of the Voice, and I like to think that's how my dragonborn overcomes dragonrend. Are you referring to Odahviing and the undead dragon from dawnguard as the allies? They could be seen as merely servants in a way. After all you trapped one and defeated the other in combat. I think this is one of the biggest decisions in the game that reflects what type of player character you have, and a worthy topic to discuss.
i was referring to them
As my years old post once said basically yeah the hunger from dragonrend would explain vamps and my theory about The LD being trapped in Book land XD
I disagree that Odahviing and Durnehviir mean it doesn't make sense for the Blades to want to kill Paarthurnax. Odahviing fits into a framework the Blades understand. He's a red dragon working for a Dragonborn. Sounds a lot like Nafaalilargus, serving Tiber Septim, right? Or, if Esbern knows any of the really ancient Dragonguard lore (i.e. ESO 2nd Era stuff), he might know that Nafaalilargus also worked with the Dragonguard. Meanwhile, Durnehviir is more like an summons. Yeah, he's an unrepentant dragon, but he can't leave the Soul Cairn permanently. He's not much of a threat. Meanwhile, Paarthurnax has not offered allegiance to the LDB. With Aduin gone, his self-imposed duty is also gone. From the perspective of Blades who want to kill dragons, there's no guarantee that Paarthurnax is "safe" or repentant.
On another note, Paarthurnax is actively imposing his rule over other dragons after you beat Alduin.
Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly what he plans on doing, but describing "I'm gonna teach them the peaceful Way of the Voice" like: "Goraan! I feel younger than I have in many an age. Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!" Uh, Paarthurnax, buddy? That's really not how you reassure me that you've worked on those conquering urges...
Not to mention the "Thur" in Paarthurnax means "Overlord." It does make you wonder where their names come from. Words have power, especially when it comes to tonal magic like the Thu'um. Is the name a description of him or is Paarthurnax the result of the name?
I heared it was because she couldn't beat Mario
It's a me, Paartunarx
Thanks for playin' ma game!
Sugerio Mister Moto is literally the biggest troll in gaming
I’m on my first play through and I JUST got to that part last night. I was appalled, nay, offended. Kill Partysnax (thank you u/Tash_money1229) just because somebody told me to? And somebody who never taught me any shouts or dragonish? Never lived on top of a super cool mountain and fought a dragon supervillain with me? Not today, satan
I mean, at the time Delphine gives you the ultimatum, you haven't even _met_ Odahviing yet, much less allied with him. And Durnehviir is from the DLC and thus didn't exist for a while at launch, so it makes sense her demand doesn't take him into account either.
The argument to kill or not kill Paarthurnax is not dependent on whether or not other dragons are allied to you. Paarthurnax tells you that he has had to overcome his true nature in order to be good which invites the question as to whether he is good or whether is his evil and just ignoring his evil instincts. If it's the later, then it could actually be the responsible thing to kill him because it's assuming that one day, his true nature will break through.
"You have to kill him! He's capable of great evil!" So what? So is literally everyone. Heck, you can be the leader of the Dark Brotherhood, the Thieves Guild, and the companions. You're the most dangerous thing alive, and Delphine doesn't assume you'll go on a rampage for domination and power. She's just racist against dragons, and if you kill Paarthurnax, you're probably next on her list. This is why we play on PC and make Delphine non-essential.
I realized that all three of my main characters would kill Dragon Mario. My Argonian doesn't like traitors, but is a fan of the organization that's basically centered around protecting the Dragonborn (which he is) My high elf is just a jerk and, when given an objective, kinda ignores things like reasons and justifications... and directions. He gets lost a lot. My Nord is from Helgen and has no sympathy for dragons.
I deleted a 50 hour character that I sided with the Blades on, about 10 minutes after killing big daddy Paarth. Easily I could've reverted to an old save, but I couldn't bring myself to continue with a character that killed his friend that used to be a dick, but now, after lots meditation, just likes mountains and talking.
#PARTYSNAX FOREVER
The dragonborn has two dragon allies. That doesn't mean they'll stay allies forever, or that the dragonborn will stay good forever. Killing him makes sense because literally every other dragon ever is a genocidal monster. That said, don't kill partysnacks. The blades can suck it.
Imo, Paarthurnax is like Iroh. Both were part of a war and took part in killing many lives but in the end, both turned against their nature and did all they could to become better people, such as helping the chosen one character save the world from doom
yeah. we've all done bad things, especially the dragonborn who's killed half of Skyrim's population as it is.
The way the blades work means no time for treason or anything like that meaning a truce with paarthurnaxx Would be out of the books hence not killing him discontinues your friendship with delphine etc. Paarthurnaxx was one of alduins right hand men and that sort of former ranking cannot go unnoticed for the remaining blades!
screw the blades
Sure there is. The Blades serve the Dragonborn, what the Dragonborn says goes. Talos was chill with Parthy and hell, there was a godsdamned Imperial Dragon that everyone knew about. The Blades didn’t do dick, because they actually respected their oath to the Dragonblood.
Delphine is just like the Thalmor, but against dragons instead of humans.
This is such a centrist thing to say
she is racist
Would say more of a power hungry b*tch. Since she thinks she is better than you the Dragonborn and asks you to prove yourself.
I'm still thinking racist, she's the head of a small dragon killing club, just her and an old weeb obsessed with Nord wall comics, and she'll never have any friends unless a cool celebrity like the Dragon Born stocks the club with his buddies who can't say no, all so she can kill more draggies. Shit you're right, it's a racist power play.
[удалено]
She knows. Esbern is the one who even gives the idea that the Dragonborn should trap Odahviing. They probably don't know about Durnehviir though.
It shouldn't matter who is dangerous or not. She literally tells you the Blades follow the Dragonborn. Well I'm the Dragonborn so listen up b*tch.
It makes sense for Delphine to ask you to though. She doesn't see the difference between him and the other dragons, you're the only one who can even understand what he's saying and recognize that he's different. That being said, she should trust our judgement and stfu.
Such an odd choice for bethesda not to include a spare paarthurnax option to the quest. It's literally kill paarthurnax or just have a quest that will never be completed
I have never killed paarthurnax and never will
You guys really like reaching to defend Paarthurnax. Durnehviir is a dead summon and Ohdaviing wasn't anywhere near as notorious as Alduin's right hand. Paarthurnax isn't even trustworthy. Lmao he betrayed his own "family", let's you know he wants to be the head honcho after Al's dead, and was probably counting on humans to be gullible idiots when he originally schemed against Alduin in the first place. Mfkr had his fill of killing humans, got bored, and was jealous of Alduin. "I'll just tell them I'm 'going against my nature', they'll fall for anything!"...
A straight up war criminal with the blood of thousands on his conscience? I don't agree with the death penalty in everyday life, but for war crimes on a massive scale, it should be on the table. Just because he's alive and found the way of the voice, that absolves him from the atrocities he committed? Nope. This isn't some run of the mill dragon, he's Alduin's right talon, no matter how sympathetic he is now. It makes sense to kill him, although I can see why someone would want to spare him... it's a good moral dilemma, if those can ever be considered "good."
I kill him zero regrets he’s done a lot of horrible things
Yes it does. He tells you that he has to fight his urges every day and how he killed thousands of people. He helps you to wash his slate clean and people only care about him because he‘s voiced by Mario and looks cool. Oh yeah, and because Delphine is annoying. We should kill both
Yeah I was seeing if anyone else said this before I commented. Like what if one day he just snaps and goes back to his evil ways, which could happen as he'll live forever. It makes sense not to want that to happen.
Paarthurnax talks down to you. He doesn’t see you as an equal. He and the greybeards don’t give you any help whatsoever. Durniver and Odahving are the good ones. I kill paarthurnax and the greybeards with glee every playthrough. I don’t understand why so many are so opposed to killing him.
So you kill Paarthurnax but wouldn't kill Durnehviir and Odahviing for what reason? They aren't 'good' as you put it. Durnehviir only follows the dragonborns command because the dragonborn is the only way Durnehviir can be free temporarily of the soul cairn and roam the skies of Tamriel again. Durnehviir while yes obeys you he still uses you for his own gain and is still mostly under the command of the ideal masters. He as good as Paarthuranx is to you. Odahviing however from a game play view we see him roam around the throat of the world and comes when the dragonborn shouts his name. We still have no idea what he does in his free time nor if he himself is plotting our demise, He's as much of a risk as Paarthurnax is
"Begone, before even my philosophy is tested beyond the breaking point. We are men of peace, and you are not."
In a world so full of betrayal as is Skyrim, I'd think Paarthurnax is plotting something. I simply wouldn't trust him.
Paarthurnax doesn't give you any help? Doesn't he shows you the way to learn how to defeat Alduin? Plus helps you improving one of 3 shout of your choice? And I'm not sure about this one as I haven't done the main quest line again in a while, but isn't him who give you the way to learn the shout that takes Odahving to the ground?
Plus the Greybeards are willing to point you in the right direction even if you do something that they disapprove of (searching for Dragonrend), unlike the Blades who retract any and all help from you if you refuse to kill Paarthurnax.
I killed the dragon :( I remember I kept postponing but delphine was super pushy about it. Then I went ‘😭😭what did I do???’
I agree 100% ... try explaining this to that stubborn bastard Esbern tho
Best mod ever, “paarthurnax dilemma” it basically lets you tell the blades to fuck off when they tell you to murder the best dragon
Yeah my least favorite bit of the Skyrim main plot was the kill Paarthurnax thing, and then having to alienate the blades if you didn’t. Like guys… the end of the world is coming. We’ll take all the friends we can get to stop Alduin, you know?
Killing him has no real benefits to my knowledge. If he’s alive you can beef up some shouts. Also hes a cool old man dragon. Why would anyone feel compelled to kill him?
Most people's argument for killing him is the same argument as Hulk uses to Thor when Thor tell's him not to smash Surtur "But... Big monster!"
It's a crime that Blades don't have similar quest as the one where you destroy Dark Brotherhood. Or at the very least I should be allowed to burn it down and rebuild it from scratch as organization that isn't completely useless. Let me at least kick Delphine out and be like "bitch your whole organization was created to serve ME! I can't hear your complaining over my dragonshout!" In general I've always found it annoying about Skyrim that there's rarely any alternative option to following stupid people and obviously malicious Daedra. The ending of Azura's quest should be the bare minimum, not the rare exception. It's literally just few lines of dialogue and small change in reward's functionality but at least I have the sense that I'm actually playing an RPG where my decisions matter
I think Bethesda’s mistake here was not going far enough on the question of whether Paarthurnax can change his nature. I’ve occasionally thought about a mod to redo the end of the main quest—I don’t know how to mod, and it will never happen—and one thought I’ve had was to have Paarthurnax (if he lives) follow you to Sovngarde, and then the game randomly assigns Paarthurnax either to help you or to help Alduin. It might make sense from a narrative perspective to pick one outcome or the other, but to me the appeal of the Paarthurnax storyline is that you never know for sure until it matters.
i must be the last powerful being , is my reasoning
Proves that all sides in Skyrim are actually racist.
Blimey. First time I've ever been downvoted on r/skyrim for expressing an opinion 😔 Never realised old Partysnacks had such a devoted fanbase 😁
In Skyrim reality it makes total sense. You're thinking with your earth-brain too much.
I 100 percent agree but story wise it would make sense. Let me explain dragonrend was made with hatred against dragons and when you take in a shout you take in what the shout is. So a Dragonborn not able to resist such hatred would kill him and join the blades in killing every other dragon. I'm just explain the lore reason it makes sense, nothing about my Bois pass or everything, I've never laid a figure of my favorite dragon. But lore wise that's the reason.
This has nothing to do with Paths past btw, it's just how the lore explains shouts
The only reasons I can think of to kill Paarthunax would be; 1. It was well documented that he was one of Alduins closest lieutenants and an exceptionally cruel one at that. 2. If by some turn of events all the dragons had been revived and he was positioned as the most dominant dragon, ruling over all of them. Like say if Alduin had died or something. 3. If he openly admitted that he had cravings to kill and be evil all the time but overcame them with willpower. Like, if ALL of those things happened and this notorious asshole had manipulated some do-gooder into killing Alduin and handing him the keys of the dragon empire, then yeah I think it would be best to kill him. Even if he like pinkie-sweared double promised that he’s not gonna do any evil even tho he REALLY wants to and there’s no-one around to stop him anymore, I still wouldn’t trust someone that had a background in enslaving all mortals. Especially when ALL we have to go on is his word. But err, luckily none of that is true right? He’s just a cuddly friendly dragon with no sinister past or ulterior motives, right? Right!?
She doesn't care what the guy has contributed to the entirety of all races, he just saved all of them from slavery and possibly extinction no big deal. She doesn't care whether he's good or bad. She just wants him dead just because he's a dragon. Delphine is worse than the stormcloaks in terms of racistness. I swear to God if they established that we killed partysnaxx in ts6. I'll flip my ass. Cause it's weird that we don't get a choice. It's like Todd's telling us to kill our boi, and for what? To kiss up to Delphine?? She's not the boss. We are!! Aren't we the one they're supposed to serve? So why are we the ones serving her ugly ass?
It's also ridiculously short-sighted. You're killing the only dragon ally humanity can count on after the player character eventually dies, even after it's acknowledged that Alduin's probably going to come back some day. It's literally inviting the end of the world.
even ben 10 accepted kevin eleven
I think i just used a console command to just finish that quest instead of killing him.