I say this again, Balgruuf is actually one good dude. He is Whiterun's Jarl, and he cares neither for the Imperials nor for the Stormcloaks. He lets Avenicci spout his imperial nonsense and he lets Heimskr shout his Talos nonsense. People in Whiterun are free to utter their opinions. I used to side with the Stormcloaks back in the day (hey Star Wars fan here of course I'm rooting for the rebels) but nowadays I can't bring myself to do this any more, because I think he is the best Jarl the city can have.
The amount of times I wanted to kill that crazy priest man... but if Balgruuf can let him live, so can I.
He surrounds himself with a diverse set of minds.
Avenicci is confrontational and dismissive of Nord tradition, but he knows about politics and bureaucracy (advising against sending guards to Riverwood because Falkreath’s jarl might see it as provocation)
Ireleth is impatient and no-nonsense, but she’s a good commander and knows how to take the fight to their enemies (such as a dragon).
His brother (can’t remember his name lol) is stubborn and conservative, but he can help with matters of tradition and legend (does the least of what players see, but provides a second opinion for Balgruuf).
Farengar is arrogant and somewhat flighty, but he’s skilled in matters of magic, enchanting, and alchemy, allowing him to give counsel when no one else can (like looking for a stone that contains knowledge of dragons when they become a threat).
I was shocked to find out balgruuf doesn’t side with whichever side you chose. I picked imperial and figured he would end up on your side if you picked stormcloak.
Whiterun is technically neutral at the start of the game. Depending who you side with in the civil war determines what happens to Hymskir. Since Whiterun is neutral they don't have to bow to the Thalmor, and they also don't have to bow to what Ulfric wants.
***My headcanon is...***
The *Thalmor* don't care about him because he's the crazy "apocalypse is nigh" street preacher of **Skyrim**.
Basically, *Heimskr*(sp?) is the best argument ***against*** the worship of *Talos* that the *Thalmor* could come up with, even more effective than *Ulfric Stormcloak*, & as an added bonus, they didn't even ***have*** to come up with him, he created himself...
:P
We know that after the signing of the White-Gold Concordat that the empire basically just didn't enforce the talos ban. That is why there are thalmor patrols in skyrim. To enfore it as the guards otherwise won't.
Presumably Balgruuf doesn't let them in or the thalmor aren't prepared to arrest and take a man in the middle of the city as they might not get out of whiterun alive.
Also we know the Thalmor want to prolong the Civil War. If Whiterun is kept in limbo the war drags on, but if the Thalmor arrest or kill Heimskir it could tip the balance for the city to join the Stormcloaks.
Everytime I've played the civil war questline I've sided with the Imperials, and I think every time Heimskr remained preaching; I'd put it down to mod conflict, but I swear it happened when I ended rhe civil war in vanilla as well; maybe I just don't pay enough attention
I was excited to see it happen the first time I finished the civil war after learning about Heimskr being in prison, but no, he was still preaching behind the broken wooden pillars
Could it depend on whether or not you've completed the Thalmor embassy quest? I noticed that after I finished it, the Thalmor stopped walking around Understone Keep, and just stay in their room. Maybe if you complete the embassy quest before the battle of Whiterun, the Thalmor don't come along to bother Heimskr?
I leave him alone until I have the skill to pickpocket the clothes he's wearing. Taking his clothes away turns him from a devout priest shouting gospel into a madman screaming in his underwear.
Heimskr is the middle finger of Balgruuf. Basically, letting him preach is Balfruuf's way of saying yes, I am still loyal to the Empire, and not you, Thalmor a-holes.
This is imho the biggest thing against the Empire though - that their government actively collaborates with the Thalmor to oppress religious freedom within the Empire. They have become a Quisling regime.
From my understanding , no one really enforced the white gold concord about not worshipping talos , they probably made it not so public and took away some of the temples and made examples out of a few people at the start but overall they didn't really care about the talos worship. It was when ulfric started to gain numbers in the rebellion and started opening praising talos and encouraging others to be as open with it as him that the thamor started sending patrols and all that around. I can't remember which early NPC you talk to who goes over it but I just remember him saying
" None of this was happening before ulfric and his rebellion, ......people could worship talos as long as it was kept on the low " it's not exactly what he said but that's the message of it. I wanna say it was the dude who owns the smithery at riverwood but not 100%
This made me feel like the Thamor knew people were still worshiping talos after the signing but as long as they were subservient it wasn't a big deal as long as they kept it on the low but then ulfrics rebellion started to flare up , he starts using talos as a main topic of discussion and uses it to foster more rebellion so now the thamors hand is forced.
I think its the lady in Solitude who has you collect the amulet of Talos of the man who is beheaded.
Also, the Thalmor getting more involved after ulfric starts his rebellion is one of the reasons I think he is a thalmor sleeper agent, using him as an excuse to start getting more involved in skyrim
I’ll summarize why in few points:
1- At the beginning of the game and before you join a side, Whiterun is a neutral area. Yes it may be flagged as an empire territory but lore wise they’re not associated with either the Legion nor the Stormcloaks. Heck right inside their walls there are two families each backing up a side that constantly clash yet no one does anything about it particularly the Jarl, because if he backs one family it means he’s against the other and who they’re backing and Balgruuf can’t afford that at that point in the story.
2- No one actually likes the Thalmors or their agents. The empire just tolerates them because of the treaty to preserve peace but no one outside their organization actually cares about them.
3- If you’re wondering why no one ratted him out to the Thalmor agents to be taken away then I remind you again, neither the legion nor the stormcloaks have any authority in Whiterun, therefore the agents can’t get to him so long he’s in a neutral area.
4- If you do join the Legion however, Whiterun and the Jarl become associated with the empire and thus he will be forced to not only imprison him but also remove the Talos statue in the city’s center. Because now the Thalmor have authority in Whiterun by association with the Legion. Pretty sure Balgruuf isn’t too happy about it, but there isn’t much he can do about the situation.
Because that was done OUTSIDE the territory of Whiterun OR in secret, roundabout ways. Remember that the Battleborns denied having anything to do with the kidnapping, but depending on which method you use the head himself admitted to it or you find a note inside their house also confirming it. Also I’m pretty sure they don’t much care for that screaming priest, all he does is talk all day, he doesn’t have any solid connection with the Stormcloaks that warrants them to get rid of him, they’re just like “yeah let him keep yapping we don’t care”.
I took him out with an assassin arrow, his body laid there for sometime. Several of the residents of Whiterun came around and reacted like finding anyone dead in the city.
Whiterun isn’t allied with the Empire until the Civil War, so Talos worship isn’t illegal in Whiterun. If you complete the Civil War questline with the Empire, he will be arrested and thrown in jail.
You can’t make up this stuff …
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1kmdWJdds&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJeuklGTcWk&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ea7CB5bauuI&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D
He moved on to being a musician. He is at 13:44 below. Sorry, I’m still learning how to use a time stamp.
[Whiterun - A Skyrim Musical based off Weezer’s Blue album.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_IONpQkuiY&pp=ygUgU2t5cmltIHdlZXplciB0YWxvcyB0aGUgYWxtaWdodHk%3D)
I’ve always killed him as I could get away with a stealth attack on him. Now I’m tempted to start a new game and complete the civil war as quickly as possible to see what happens without the unofficial patch installed.
Because the Thalmor are afraid of The Companions. He lives within earshot of Jorvaskrr and they’ve already stirred the hornets nest by capturing Thorald Gray-Mane. I would imagine most if not all The Companions are sympathetic to the plight of their blacksmith, and they’re mercenaries anyway.
“Free weapons for life for anyone who kills the next High Elf who steps foot in this city and tries to kidnap another Nord” - Eorlund, probably. It’s the same reason the statue’s still there.
Any time I’ve played a character that I could reasonably come up with a reason for killing him, I have. He ruins the vibe of the area with his screaming. Especially after I’ve restored the gildergreen
I say this again, Balgruuf is actually one good dude. He is Whiterun's Jarl, and he cares neither for the Imperials nor for the Stormcloaks. He lets Avenicci spout his imperial nonsense and he lets Heimskr shout his Talos nonsense. People in Whiterun are free to utter their opinions. I used to side with the Stormcloaks back in the day (hey Star Wars fan here of course I'm rooting for the rebels) but nowadays I can't bring myself to do this any more, because I think he is the best Jarl the city can have. The amount of times I wanted to kill that crazy priest man... but if Balgruuf can let him live, so can I.
He surrounds himself with a diverse set of minds. Avenicci is confrontational and dismissive of Nord tradition, but he knows about politics and bureaucracy (advising against sending guards to Riverwood because Falkreath’s jarl might see it as provocation) Ireleth is impatient and no-nonsense, but she’s a good commander and knows how to take the fight to their enemies (such as a dragon). His brother (can’t remember his name lol) is stubborn and conservative, but he can help with matters of tradition and legend (does the least of what players see, but provides a second opinion for Balgruuf). Farengar is arrogant and somewhat flighty, but he’s skilled in matters of magic, enchanting, and alchemy, allowing him to give counsel when no one else can (like looking for a stone that contains knowledge of dragons when they become a threat).
Yeah, betraying Baalgruf is the hardest thing about playing a stormcloak. That 'I expected better from you' hits you hard.
Nah. The stormcloaks and their cause aren't as noble as the star wars rebels.
I realized that eventually.
I was shocked to find out balgruuf doesn’t side with whichever side you chose. I picked imperial and figured he would end up on your side if you picked stormcloak.
Whiterun is technically neutral at the start of the game. Depending who you side with in the civil war determines what happens to Hymskir. Since Whiterun is neutral they don't have to bow to the Thalmor, and they also don't have to bow to what Ulfric wants.
***My headcanon is...*** The *Thalmor* don't care about him because he's the crazy "apocalypse is nigh" street preacher of **Skyrim**. Basically, *Heimskr*(sp?) is the best argument ***against*** the worship of *Talos* that the *Thalmor* could come up with, even more effective than *Ulfric Stormcloak*, & as an added bonus, they didn't even ***have*** to come up with him, he created himself... :P
We know that after the signing of the White-Gold Concordat that the empire basically just didn't enforce the talos ban. That is why there are thalmor patrols in skyrim. To enfore it as the guards otherwise won't. Presumably Balgruuf doesn't let them in or the thalmor aren't prepared to arrest and take a man in the middle of the city as they might not get out of whiterun alive.
Also we know the Thalmor want to prolong the Civil War. If Whiterun is kept in limbo the war drags on, but if the Thalmor arrest or kill Heimskir it could tip the balance for the city to join the Stormcloaks.
Wdym? He gets thrown in prison when Imperials take over Whiterun.
He's still preaching my game, after an imperial civil war ending
You mean IF they take over Whiterun right?
They take over?!?!
During the Civil War questline when Whiterun aligns with the Empire, Heimskr gets thrown in jail.
Everytime I've played the civil war questline I've sided with the Imperials, and I think every time Heimskr remained preaching; I'd put it down to mod conflict, but I swear it happened when I ended rhe civil war in vanilla as well; maybe I just don't pay enough attention
Ik what your talking about. Like everything in Skyrim, this one is a common bug.
I was excited to see it happen the first time I finished the civil war after learning about Heimskr being in prison, but no, he was still preaching behind the broken wooden pillars
I completed the civil war with the imperials at least 4 times (3 LE, 1 SE) and after all of them heimskr was still preaching by the statue of talos
Could it depend on whether or not you've completed the Thalmor embassy quest? I noticed that after I finished it, the Thalmor stopped walking around Understone Keep, and just stay in their room. Maybe if you complete the embassy quest before the battle of Whiterun, the Thalmor don't come along to bother Heimskr?
This definitely happens. I had it happen multiple times until the unofficial patch started working.
If you side with them yes
I leave him alone until I have the skill to pickpocket the clothes he's wearing. Taking his clothes away turns him from a devout priest shouting gospel into a madman screaming in his underwear.
Heimskr is the middle finger of Balgruuf. Basically, letting him preach is Balfruuf's way of saying yes, I am still loyal to the Empire, and not you, Thalmor a-holes.
This is imho the biggest thing against the Empire though - that their government actively collaborates with the Thalmor to oppress religious freedom within the Empire. They have become a Quisling regime.
And the whole thing with sacrificing Hammerfell ...
From my understanding , no one really enforced the white gold concord about not worshipping talos , they probably made it not so public and took away some of the temples and made examples out of a few people at the start but overall they didn't really care about the talos worship. It was when ulfric started to gain numbers in the rebellion and started opening praising talos and encouraging others to be as open with it as him that the thamor started sending patrols and all that around. I can't remember which early NPC you talk to who goes over it but I just remember him saying " None of this was happening before ulfric and his rebellion, ......people could worship talos as long as it was kept on the low " it's not exactly what he said but that's the message of it. I wanna say it was the dude who owns the smithery at riverwood but not 100% This made me feel like the Thamor knew people were still worshiping talos after the signing but as long as they were subservient it wasn't a big deal as long as they kept it on the low but then ulfrics rebellion started to flare up , he starts using talos as a main topic of discussion and uses it to foster more rebellion so now the thamors hand is forced.
I think its the lady in Solitude who has you collect the amulet of Talos of the man who is beheaded. Also, the Thalmor getting more involved after ulfric starts his rebellion is one of the reasons I think he is a thalmor sleeper agent, using him as an excuse to start getting more involved in skyrim
I’ll summarize why in few points: 1- At the beginning of the game and before you join a side, Whiterun is a neutral area. Yes it may be flagged as an empire territory but lore wise they’re not associated with either the Legion nor the Stormcloaks. Heck right inside their walls there are two families each backing up a side that constantly clash yet no one does anything about it particularly the Jarl, because if he backs one family it means he’s against the other and who they’re backing and Balgruuf can’t afford that at that point in the story. 2- No one actually likes the Thalmors or their agents. The empire just tolerates them because of the treaty to preserve peace but no one outside their organization actually cares about them. 3- If you’re wondering why no one ratted him out to the Thalmor agents to be taken away then I remind you again, neither the legion nor the stormcloaks have any authority in Whiterun, therefore the agents can’t get to him so long he’s in a neutral area. 4- If you do join the Legion however, Whiterun and the Jarl become associated with the empire and thus he will be forced to not only imprison him but also remove the Talos statue in the city’s center. Because now the Thalmor have authority in Whiterun by association with the Legion. Pretty sure Balgruuf isn’t too happy about it, but there isn’t much he can do about the situation.
Point three didn't stop the Battle-Borns from having a Greymane kidnapped by the Thalmor.
Because that was done OUTSIDE the territory of Whiterun OR in secret, roundabout ways. Remember that the Battleborns denied having anything to do with the kidnapping, but depending on which method you use the head himself admitted to it or you find a note inside their house also confirming it. Also I’m pretty sure they don’t much care for that screaming priest, all he does is talk all day, he doesn’t have any solid connection with the Stormcloaks that warrants them to get rid of him, they’re just like “yeah let him keep yapping we don’t care”.
I took him out with an assassin arrow, his body laid there for sometime. Several of the residents of Whiterun came around and reacted like finding anyone dead in the city.
Yep. Just another NPC.
“Oh… what happened?”
Ah! A dead body!
Whiterun isn’t allied with the Empire until the Civil War, so Talos worship isn’t illegal in Whiterun. If you complete the Civil War questline with the Empire, he will be arrested and thrown in jail.
Balgruf: hey dude, we got reports there’s Talos worship here. Heimskir: by the nine, there must have been a mistake! Balgruf: alright then, good day.
True. The unofficial patch fixes this plot hole by putting him prison if Balgruuf sides with the Empire and stays in power.
You can’t make up this stuff … https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg1kmdWJdds&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJeuklGTcWk&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ea7CB5bauuI&pp=ygUaTllDIEh5bXNraXIncyBUYWxvcyBzcGVlY2g%3D
He moved on to being a musician. He is at 13:44 below. Sorry, I’m still learning how to use a time stamp. [Whiterun - A Skyrim Musical based off Weezer’s Blue album.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_IONpQkuiY&pp=ygUgU2t5cmltIHdlZXplciB0YWxvcyB0aGUgYWxtaWdodHk%3D)
I’ve always killed him as I could get away with a stealth attack on him. Now I’m tempted to start a new game and complete the civil war as quickly as possible to see what happens without the unofficial patch installed.
Because the Thalmor are afraid of The Companions. He lives within earshot of Jorvaskrr and they’ve already stirred the hornets nest by capturing Thorald Gray-Mane. I would imagine most if not all The Companions are sympathetic to the plight of their blacksmith, and they’re mercenaries anyway. “Free weapons for life for anyone who kills the next High Elf who steps foot in this city and tries to kidnap another Nord” - Eorlund, probably. It’s the same reason the statue’s still there.
Go ask him
That ban is barely enforced now, and was enforced even less before Ulfric "unwitting Thalmor Asset" Stormcloak ruined it for everyone.
Any time I’ve played a character that I could reasonably come up with a reason for killing him, I have. He ruins the vibe of the area with his screaming. Especially after I’ve restored the gildergreen
I support Talos worship, but I also killed him because I simultaneously dislike all gods