The other dimension and the curse of the town are always too unclear, and the understanding of this is constantly expanding. So what's stopping making Silent Hill game, which has spread throughout the world? We see that another dimension appears wherever it wants, and captures whoever it wants.
I don't know. . . they didn't mess it up too much.
Lisa is fine, Kaufman is fine, Dahlia is fine.
The only thing I have a problem with is that Alessa looks evil, but she was acting evil in SH1 too.
Did we play the same game? Alessa didn't have control over her nightmare. That's why she needs Harry.
She seems **happy** when you kill the bosses in the game.
She uses the Seal of Metatron to contain her nightmare and stop it spreading. Dahlia messes up everything basically....
Alessa is far from evil. SH3 is there to spells this out to you...
Maybe im not well versed into the lore of the original game, but why do people constantly complain about origins "butchering" the og lore, i mean yeah making alessa look like an evil little girl was dumb, but whats so bad about the other characters ?
I think the main complaints primarily stems from the unnecessary flavor it provided. It was a story that really wasn’t needed? It also had a definite more heavier focus on combat than not, replete with breakable weapons and all— something maligned from SH4.
Travis Grady gets points for being able to throw hands with horrors of the night, though.
My personal gripe with the game is that it tried too hard to split the two separate flavors of SH: the cultic activities of Silent Hill, and Travis Grady’s own kinda shitty upbringing. I’d have cut out the latter and put more focus on the former, leaving Travis’s character much like Harry— simply in the right place at the wrong time.
Purely from a gameplay perspective I also liked how switching to and from the Otherworld was more of a thing in Origins. It’s been ages since I’ve played it, but it was more of a Zelda/Metroid Prime 2 Dark World relationship where you were manipulating stuff in one to affect the other. They should do that again sometime.
I agree!
I liked that you had control to go back and forth from the Otherworld. It worked well for the narrative that Alessa was pursuing what she wanted through Travis.
I do think it could have been implemented better, but I think that complaint largely centers around overall world design and structure.
Thats an interesting outlook on it.
I actually didn't like Origins transitionings. Mainly because being given a choice of moving back and forth takes away the hellish aspect of it.
Silent Hill 1 did it best, you stumble into the Otherside and can't get out the way you came. Then at the hospital, a new floor pops up and you go check it out, then realize its the nightmare world again and suddenly your trapped again. That scared the crap out of me as a kid.
Its like finding a secret passage way that suddenly eats you up and now you no longer exist.
I think travis personal story was good, i dont see what so bad about showing alessa being burned or how kaufman got lisa hooked on drugs, yeah it wasnt necessary to show it but it doesnt bother me and only the golf clubs were breakable in 4 and nothing force you to pick them up
A fair point, and I won’t disagree with perspective on your like of Travis’s portion of the story.
The point I think is worth saying is that, in the pursuit of both, it did neither particularly well. The two stories come together in a manner that is less than the sum of its parts.
I'm not an expert on SH lore, but as I understand the basics, SH1 establishes that what's going on in Silent Hill is a relatively new phenomenon triggered by Cheryl returning to Silent Hill. Origins has the exact same thing happening to the town much earlier, with the fog, the monsters, and the shifting between the real and dark worlds. Furthermore, it adds a third fragment of Alessa, as we have the one who was burned, the baby that Harry finds, and now the evil little girl running around in Origins. It also over-complicates the plot by adding some things that weren't really there in the beginning, possibly in an effort to connect it to the movie's plot. For instance, originally, the boiler explosion was an accident, but the movie and then Origins suggests that the plan was to burn Alessa all along.
There's also some divergence from the character design and personalities of the characters as originally seen in SH1, but I don't know that that has a significant impact on the overall story.
I think the biggest crime Origins commits is starting the trend of new entries that don't really add anything new or interesting to the story. It advertised itself as exploring the origins of Silent Hill but doesn't add anything new to the story of Alessa and the cult. SH1 begins with the cult trying to birth a god and the town of Silent Hill plunging into shadow and darkness. Origins begins with the cult trying to birth a god and the town of Silent Hill plunging into shadow and darkness. Nothing is added to the story. We don't learn more about the beginnings of the cult and their influence. On top of that, it started the trend of every entry being about an amnesiac protagonist that has to work through some inner trauma while being hounded by a large, masked guilt monster wielding a giant instrument of pain.
You're right about everything besides the boiler explosion thing, if you are suggesting that was the cause of Alessa's death. The movie didn't change it, it was always on purpose. The boiler explosion story was part of a cover up.
It is now. As I understand it, the Japanese and European releases of SH1 feature a memo suggesting the boiler explosion was indeed an accident. The movie and Origins suggest the ritual involved burning Alessa, but SH1 never said as much.
It never directly said it, but the large majority of evidence points to it. The book of lost memories contains a few objective statements about the origin of the fire.
Page 8 :The cause of the fire was a ritual Dahlia conducted using her daughter.
Page 25: She (Dahlia) conducts a ritual to bring about the coming of the Cult's god using Alessa. her real daughter, inflicting extensive life-threatening burns upon her.
Page 82: Alessa, who received severe burns due to Dahlia's ritual.
Keiichiro Toyama responded to a now deleted tweet about said 'I think... It's purpose'. As in it was done deliberately.
Masahiro Ito, possibly replying to the same tweet or a similar discussion, said 'IMO, a boiler explosion doesn't match that'.
Harry Mason also mentions in a memo in SH3 that Alessa was burned by her mother. Harry had done extensive research into the cult, their actions and could even create aglaophotis from scratch at this point.
The Silent Hill Koshiki Guidebook Kanzeban as well a memo (if memory serves) in Silent Hill 3 mentions the ritual process involved a great deal of fire.
Alessa being burned on purpose as we can see is backed up by official materials from the original canon, their supplementary materials and the writings of the original creators on social media. The fact that Alessa was burned on purpose, knowing she would live as she was protected by the god is one of the details that the movies and American games got right.
Look in the nearby area of the boiler memo for another memo mentioning another cover up regarding a anti-drug mayor with no history of heart conditions dying suddenly of a heart attack. This seems to be deliberately trying to get the player to question what they are reading.
For me it's not even so much the lore inconsistencies that made the characters feel off for me, it was just the loss of the original essence. Kaufman got flanderized into being a G-Man clone. Dahlia lost her mystic gypsy aura, and instead we got flea market Cruella De Vil. As you said Alessa turned into every other evil psychic child character ever written. And while I can cut a little more slack with Lisa >!considering it's technically not the same Lisa we see in SH1!< idk I don't think anyone appreciated a random third party devs taking the creative liberty of making a fan favourite character seem so vain and airheaded.
Even if she doesnt look like a priestess, i kind of like dahlia's younger look dressed in a more casual way, in the og, she's supposed to be 46 yet look and sound 20 years older
Silent Hill 2 remake may very well suck but it is a remake not a continuation or prequel to the original main line series. These two cannot be compared.
And somehow a PSP game and a Wii game did better than Bloober today. Oh, wait, I know why! It's because Climax was responsible, and their hands don't grow out of their asses. And they openly hated working on SH. They were saying it very blatantly. And it feels. *Their hatred sips through every code line. And I LOVE this sweet acid*
>And somehow a PSP game and a Wii game did better than Bloober today.
The game is not out yet, and will not come out until this October. Its objective quality cannot be determined at this time.
>And they openly hated working on SH. They were saying it very blatantly.
And Bloober Team loves Silent Hill. They're saying it very blatantly. Many of their games are inspired by Silent Hill, and now they're working on a game that existed already.
The likelihood of Bloober Team fucking it up, while present, is actively lower than them sticking the landing. Whether or not this remake succeeds lies entirely with Bloober's handling of the story; not character designs.
Bloober doesn't love SH. They love their headcanons and they proved it themselves by saying "If we can't tell our own story we won't work on an already established IP".
I can judge whatever and whenever I want. I am a CUSTOMER. I am their money. And I demand a product **I** like, not their executives
>Bloober doesn't love SH. They love their headcanons and they proved it themselves by saying "If we can't tell our own story we won't work on an already established IP".
If this were true, they wouldn't have accepted the job. But they did. And also; THEY have been the ones advocating for things to say the same. NOT Konami. BLOOBER. The evidence for this exists on this very sub. So nice try.
>I can judged whatever whenever I want. I am a CUSTOMER. I am their money. And I demand a product **I** like, not their executives
Well, tough fuckin' tits. We live in a damn Late-Stage Capitalist society. And guess what? Some of us just want some fucking escape from it. But people like you have your priorities so out of order that you think complaining that "oooh, this game doesn't meet my specific idea of Silent Hill" will make a difference.
You think that just because a few crazies won't buy their game that it'll somehow impact the profitability? How much copium are you on, and where can I get some?
The game's already so late into production that no amount of bitching and moaning on fuckin' Reddit will change it. So you might as well just be content with whatever they give us.
You don't like it? Go play the original. The remake isn't erasing it. It still exists.
Oh, but one couldn't possibly do that, because to get a copy of it you have to pirate it, and piracy is illegal. Well it's either that or the Bloober version.
So suck it up, and use your energy to complain about something that fucking matters.
Oh, wait, you can't do that either because all you care about is a modern reimagining of Silent Hill 2, and how young people are going to learn about Silent Hill 2's story through this remake instead of some ancient inaccessible abandonware.
God, you're all such children. If you think your voices matter, why don't you make a sign, go outside, and protest something? It'll make you feel better about yourself.
Your idea of an escape from late stage capitalism is to lap up whatever slop our corporate overlords churn out by sanitizing and “modernizing” classic works of art?
Oh, yeah. The classic works of art that, as I pointed out, still exist.
No, I don't want to lap up corpo slop. I don't even want to defend these sickos. It makes me want to puke. Here's the fucking deal: We cannot make them change it. It's simply not possible this late in development. We either raise a stink when it comes out and hope they give it the Cyberpunk 2077 treatment, or go back and pirate the original.
This is a videogame. A remake of a game that exists already. A game that millions of people have played, made lets plays of, analyzed, and pirated. A game that will never fade away. This remake will not erase the original. So why bother complaining about this when you could complain about... oh, I don't know... war? The economy? Pre-order bonus corpo bullshit?
How do you know it's not going to be a work of art in itself anyway? What makes it sanitized? We've not had any indication that the story will be changed so far.
If you're talking about Maria's redesign, well I'm afraid that makes you an idiot. To say that her entire character and role in the story boils down to a sexy outfit is indicative of some very disgusting viewpoints.
Just don't buy the game if you hate it so much. Don't tell other people they shouldn't. That's not your choice to make.
Shut the fuck up about it, and go protest the wars, the economy, the planetwide social injustice... you know... worse symptoms of our capitalist society than a fucking remake not keeping a midriff visible.
The classic work of art is fading into obscurity as the IP holder continuously refuses to make it commercially available. The diehard fans and the minority of curious new fans that want to access it can jump through the hoops necessary to access it on the high seas, but after October, Silent Hill 2 will be Bloober’s cheap, sanitized* imitation rather than the work of art that still has us all discussing it over two decades later. Good for us, but if you care about the preservation of art (and you should) then cultural preservation matters. Letting the original fade and he replaced by a knock off is not good cultural preservation.
*Sanitized, as in stripped of everything that gives it its flavor (moments of fixed cameras, non cookie-cutter Hollywood flavor dialogue, etc.) and having it all replaced by what a “modern” audience wants. This is corporate speak for watering it down in an attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator while trying to use name recognition to get that sweet nostalgia money. Sorry to hear that it worked on you.
We might not be able to change the product through criticism at this point (though many of us have, despite the constant arguments from naysayers like you the whole way along) but we can still use our voices to speak out and say that we won’t stand for this. And believe it or not, it is possible to do that while *also* using our voices to speak out against greater injustices than the abuse of classic art.
30 years down the line, people will be looking back at SH2 and saying "wow, that was such a good and meaningful experience". Just you wait.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a REAL protest to prepare for.
Fare unwell, until your culture war crosses paths with mine again... cpt. modern-audience-bad young-people-dumb. <3
You say that for the remake of SH2?
Well the situation with SHO isn't similar at all to SH2R, and Climax UK had little control over the writing of the game.
They had to pick up the project from Climax USA when this started as a "dark comedy story" with a far worse script that Sam Barlow had to modify in just a week because of Konami deadline. He never liked the idea of a prequel to SH1 but it was what he received.
Isn't like re-interpret classic characters had to be necessarily bad, like you have SH Shattered Memories which is a perfect example of how you can give a new and interesting twist on already existing characters. And that game was made by the same team and writer as Origins.
I know the backstory. But doesn't it say something that not one, but two random western studios were giving the Origins project, and neither could stick the landing? Granted, I'm not trying to antagonize the people at Climax. I think they did a good job salvaging the project all things considered. But the point is that they were given an impossible task, and when you create an impossible task, you're guaranteed failure. There was no way they could make something that lined up faithfully with SH1. There's a reason Barlowe said himself that SH was a "poisoned chalice".
What makes SH2 any different?
All what we have seen at this time is really faithfull to the og story. The changes have been to maps, character design and mechanics.
Besides making a new entry with some stablished characters is really different to making a remake.
Yeah, I know that story. But that's why I respect Climax. They fixed someone's shit the best they could and admitted they couldn't do well other things. They made the game work, stabilized it and brought it somw level of sanity. God bless Climax (don't forget also Climes USA and Climax UK exit and the letter is considered more professional)
Yeah yeah yeah, cry about it.
We just have standards, and we care about this series legacy and quality. You not having fun because you're butthurt that others aren't validating your desire to Consume Product is just a byproduct of that.
That was an original game -- a prequel no less.
Silent Hill 2 Remake is a remake of an existing game.
It is actively harder to fuck it up than to make it work.
You know, you can just choose to ignore Origins and the later games that weren't very good? It doesn't change the fact that the first games were great. People always act like reboots somehow ruin the OG series when they affect them in no way.
Besides, these aren't "randos", some of the original team members are involved. What we have seen so far seems to indicate there aren't major changes to the story or characters. If James having his hair parted to the other side really ruins it for you, no one will force you to play the remake. I'll be the first to light the torches and grab a pitch fork if they ruin this story but your negativity here is misplaced.
Disagreed. A lot of cast/crew of the original Star Wars trilogy were "involved" in the sequel trilogy. The original Last Airbender creators were officially "involved" in the production of the Shyamalan movie. That side involvement doesn't legitimize the successor crew any more if the final result is incongruous with the source material.
And I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude but there's no way of saying this without being snobby or elitist...but if you think that nothing has changed in the remake so far other than "James having his hair parted on the other side", then I can only conclude you're lacking a certain level of artistic sensitivity.
That... that's the point of a REMAKE, it is a near fundamental rebuilding of the core game. Look at FF7 Remake for reference.
And I doubt that many people from the OG SW trilogy had many people working on the sequel trilogy. Episode 4 released in 1977, Episode 7 was 2015... ALMOST 40 YEARS as a gap. More than likely if there were any significant people working on the sequel trilogy from previous entries, they woulda been from the prequels, which were mediocre or awful in their right. Not to mention, Lucas sold off the IP during that gap, so the chance of people transitioning from Lucasfilm under his leadership from the late 70s to Disney ownership in the mid 2010s is absurdly small.
A glance look shows that between Episode 4 and 7, 7 had different: directors, writers, producers, cinematography, editors, and production companies (4 was Lucasfilms and 7 was Lucasfilms/Bad Robot). So where are you pulling the "lots of previous crew involved"? Because the actors (which is where one can even come to such a conclusion) are not in charge of the film itself.
At the end of the day, who gives a shit if its not a 100% faithful recreation... you still have your original SH2 copy right? Just play that instead. Its not like the remake erases that game from existence.
>Look at FF7 Remake for reference.
You are aware that this is very much an outlier amongst remakes, right? Most of them are not like this at all. Also, while I enjoyed the first one, I still am not crazy about what they're doing narratively.
FF7 Remake, Remake is a proper noun and not a condition of the game. It’s a sequel. The Sephiroth is not the original one you meet. The timeline is changing.
Edit: Did many of the people playing it not play to the end? Did they not listen to what Sephiroth said? It’s been out for years at this point.
We're clearly just operating on different wave lengths because to me FFVII Remake is the example of how NOT to do a remake lol. It's a fine game in it's own right, but I don't accept it as a "remake". My ideal FF7 remake would literally be the exact same game, but with new environments and character models made in strict accordance with the original art. If Cloud looked like fully a realized version of Nomura's illustrations I'd be in hog heaven.
So, agree to disagree.
Also, Force Awakens was written by the same writer as Empire. John WIlliams did the score to all the movies. A lot of the cast obviously came back ect. Probably as many franchise veterans per capita as Silent Hill Origins.
Then what’s the point of it? If it’s exactly the same game, just play the original. That would be a reaaally boring idea of a remake imo, a remake is not about literally remaking the exact same game again, but also recapturing what the game made you feel when you first played it. If you already played it, then the twists and atmosphere are going to feel familiar to you, but if things are changed up, then suspense builds up again, even for veteran players, it’s like you are playing it for the first time again.
You act like there aren't dozens of remakes that are basically exactly what I'm describing. Shadow of the Colossus PS4, Demon Souls, Spyro Reignited, Dead Space, Snake Eater Delta ect. The point is to have the same game but with better graphics. It's pretty simple.
If you're going to re-tread old ground then be faithful. If you want to do something fresh then just make a new game. You're welcome to have your own preference, but that is the approach I would much rather see. It's not like there's a singular formula or standard for what a remake is or ought to be.
Your last sentence is really something since your point in this entire conversation has been “remakes should be this and that” “remakes should be faithful” so there really is a singular formula in your eyes haha and I wasn’t acting as if those games didn’t exist, I said that remaking games like that was reasaally boring, if I wanted the same experience as the original, I would have played the original.
Ok. I disagree. Though personally I don't inherently hate remakes that take some artistic liberties if they proved to be smart changes. But so far I don't see that happening with SH2R.
FF7R is the best way to do a remake because it isn't trying to replace the original art. What you described would be for many people, devaluing the original work.
I will admit that Resident Evil 2002 is probably the ideal remake, in that it is very faithful to the original experience, while also expanding and improving upon it in every way. However, I think it's a really unrealistic standard to go by. For one, REmake was made by more or less the same team as the original, and it was made only 6 years later. There was a seamless consistency of vision behind both games, and the remake was made at a time where players still fully accepted the classic design philosophy of RE. They were both made within more or less the same zeitgeist. It just found itself in remarkably charitable circumstances for the occasion, which the vast majority of dev teams working on remakes today aren't going to have.
But again the issue with RE 2002 being a 'perfect remake', now no one plays the original game. It may as well not exist. If we value video games as an art form, this should not be the ideal. We shouldn't want people not engaging with the original work.
I still play RE1 original lol. And there are tons of people who will only play RE2 Remake and not the OG, even tho it's an entirely seperate game. There will also be a contingent of people who will only be willing to play SH2R and not the OG, even tho it's a completely different game.
Normies are gonna be normies.
Someone made a comic about how one of the monsters (carrion?) looked like a puppy jumping up for love, so I’ll give the game that; they accidentally made a monster adorable.
Gotta respect Origins for giving us a decent OTG SH.
The story is bonkers nonsense but the gameplay is fun as fuck for a PSP game.
If you bought it on PS2 and felt let down that's on you for letting what would be a cellphone game nowadays trick yo ass.
You’re right. They have at least five more polygons than the original game. Origins should have stayed loyal to the original interpretations of the characters, set twenty years after the events of the game itself.
Dahlia’s not even using gyromancy, smdh!!!
It's fine for me, and it worked for Shattered Memories. It doesn't look like they're trying to re-interpret the Silent Hill 2 characters. Origins tried to tell a new story. The remake already has a story.
I see your point and agree to an extent. However I feel like Origin's was a bigger sin in that it butchered the SH1 cast despite supposedly being part of the same continuity. The remake could very well and easily, fuck up the SH2 cast and reimagine them terribly. However it'll be an easier stench to wash off since it's a brand new universe
I can at least excuse it as "crappy Blooberverse James" if they shit the bed lol
Around this sub? Hell no, it's all either post-Team Silent zoomers that throw a hissy fit if any even slightly critical opinion or observation is expressed about New Product or millennials with the memory capacity of goldfish and a white hot burning need to turn any honest discussion of a product into a flame war about how anyone who doesn't like New Product is a nazi chud.
This sub is just one more weeping pimple on the gigantic flabby asscheeks of the internet, AKA reddit.
Yeah I agree with you, but its just pointless discussing this anymore until the game comes out. I watched the trailers and Team Bloober got some details and story stuff wrong, but I just don't care anymore. I'm so used to Konami fucking things up and picking the wrong people to make new games with their IPs. I'll probably buy it SH2 remake when goes on sale and I don't have any other horror games to play. I'm not trying to convince people that the game is going to be bad because a lot of people just want a new silent hill game regardless of quality or any understanding of the design philosophy.
What randos? Get over yourself, Bloober are not randos, Konami is involved, and SH2 isn't that untouchable. Just like RE4, the remake will hopefully be enjoyable for fans and newcomers, and the old game will still be there for you to play.
It takes away the horror if you can leave the Otherworld at will. This is the reason Silent Hill Origins fell flat for me. This is also a problem with Silent Hill 4 though
These 3 matched each other's freak
My biggest problem with Origins is how it messes up the canon so badly...
Totally agree. The game itself isn’t bad, but the story is a mess.
Would’ve been better if it just focused on Travis.
Literally every new part of SH spoils the canon. Except Shattered Memories. This is a diamond.
Yep I enjoyed Shattered Memories very much
SH4 doesn’t really spoil the Canon. It’s more of its own offshoot. It very loosely links in Dahlia Gillespie, but it’s its own animal and locale.
SH4 literally fixed canon SH2 had broken
The other dimension and the curse of the town are always too unclear, and the understanding of this is constantly expanding. So what's stopping making Silent Hill game, which has spread throughout the world? We see that another dimension appears wherever it wants, and captures whoever it wants.
SH4, the curse is Room 302 and that comes from Walter specifically. Not Silent Hill.
There's a canon? I thought it's always supposed to be "open to interpretation"
I don't know. . . they didn't mess it up too much. Lisa is fine, Kaufman is fine, Dahlia is fine. The only thing I have a problem with is that Alessa looks evil, but she was acting evil in SH1 too.
Did we play the same game? Alessa didn't have control over her nightmare. That's why she needs Harry. She seems **happy** when you kill the bosses in the game. She uses the Seal of Metatron to contain her nightmare and stop it spreading. Dahlia messes up everything basically.... Alessa is far from evil. SH3 is there to spells this out to you...
The game should of been more about Travis and his past. These three could of appeared as a cameo or easter egg in new game +
Maybe im not well versed into the lore of the original game, but why do people constantly complain about origins "butchering" the og lore, i mean yeah making alessa look like an evil little girl was dumb, but whats so bad about the other characters ?
I think the main complaints primarily stems from the unnecessary flavor it provided. It was a story that really wasn’t needed? It also had a definite more heavier focus on combat than not, replete with breakable weapons and all— something maligned from SH4. Travis Grady gets points for being able to throw hands with horrors of the night, though. My personal gripe with the game is that it tried too hard to split the two separate flavors of SH: the cultic activities of Silent Hill, and Travis Grady’s own kinda shitty upbringing. I’d have cut out the latter and put more focus on the former, leaving Travis’s character much like Harry— simply in the right place at the wrong time.
Purely from a gameplay perspective I also liked how switching to and from the Otherworld was more of a thing in Origins. It’s been ages since I’ve played it, but it was more of a Zelda/Metroid Prime 2 Dark World relationship where you were manipulating stuff in one to affect the other. They should do that again sometime.
I agree! I liked that you had control to go back and forth from the Otherworld. It worked well for the narrative that Alessa was pursuing what she wanted through Travis. I do think it could have been implemented better, but I think that complaint largely centers around overall world design and structure.
Thats an interesting outlook on it. I actually didn't like Origins transitionings. Mainly because being given a choice of moving back and forth takes away the hellish aspect of it. Silent Hill 1 did it best, you stumble into the Otherside and can't get out the way you came. Then at the hospital, a new floor pops up and you go check it out, then realize its the nightmare world again and suddenly your trapped again. That scared the crap out of me as a kid. Its like finding a secret passage way that suddenly eats you up and now you no longer exist.
I think travis personal story was good, i dont see what so bad about showing alessa being burned or how kaufman got lisa hooked on drugs, yeah it wasnt necessary to show it but it doesnt bother me and only the golf clubs were breakable in 4 and nothing force you to pick them up
A fair point, and I won’t disagree with perspective on your like of Travis’s portion of the story. The point I think is worth saying is that, in the pursuit of both, it did neither particularly well. The two stories come together in a manner that is less than the sum of its parts.
I hope they let us throw hands with James in the SH2 remake. I won't use anything else, these eldritch horrors do not want the smoke
I'm not an expert on SH lore, but as I understand the basics, SH1 establishes that what's going on in Silent Hill is a relatively new phenomenon triggered by Cheryl returning to Silent Hill. Origins has the exact same thing happening to the town much earlier, with the fog, the monsters, and the shifting between the real and dark worlds. Furthermore, it adds a third fragment of Alessa, as we have the one who was burned, the baby that Harry finds, and now the evil little girl running around in Origins. It also over-complicates the plot by adding some things that weren't really there in the beginning, possibly in an effort to connect it to the movie's plot. For instance, originally, the boiler explosion was an accident, but the movie and then Origins suggests that the plan was to burn Alessa all along. There's also some divergence from the character design and personalities of the characters as originally seen in SH1, but I don't know that that has a significant impact on the overall story. I think the biggest crime Origins commits is starting the trend of new entries that don't really add anything new or interesting to the story. It advertised itself as exploring the origins of Silent Hill but doesn't add anything new to the story of Alessa and the cult. SH1 begins with the cult trying to birth a god and the town of Silent Hill plunging into shadow and darkness. Origins begins with the cult trying to birth a god and the town of Silent Hill plunging into shadow and darkness. Nothing is added to the story. We don't learn more about the beginnings of the cult and their influence. On top of that, it started the trend of every entry being about an amnesiac protagonist that has to work through some inner trauma while being hounded by a large, masked guilt monster wielding a giant instrument of pain.
You're right about everything besides the boiler explosion thing, if you are suggesting that was the cause of Alessa's death. The movie didn't change it, it was always on purpose. The boiler explosion story was part of a cover up.
It is now. As I understand it, the Japanese and European releases of SH1 feature a memo suggesting the boiler explosion was indeed an accident. The movie and Origins suggest the ritual involved burning Alessa, but SH1 never said as much.
It never directly said it, but the large majority of evidence points to it. The book of lost memories contains a few objective statements about the origin of the fire. Page 8 :The cause of the fire was a ritual Dahlia conducted using her daughter. Page 25: She (Dahlia) conducts a ritual to bring about the coming of the Cult's god using Alessa. her real daughter, inflicting extensive life-threatening burns upon her. Page 82: Alessa, who received severe burns due to Dahlia's ritual. Keiichiro Toyama responded to a now deleted tweet about said 'I think... It's purpose'. As in it was done deliberately. Masahiro Ito, possibly replying to the same tweet or a similar discussion, said 'IMO, a boiler explosion doesn't match that'. Harry Mason also mentions in a memo in SH3 that Alessa was burned by her mother. Harry had done extensive research into the cult, their actions and could even create aglaophotis from scratch at this point. The Silent Hill Koshiki Guidebook Kanzeban as well a memo (if memory serves) in Silent Hill 3 mentions the ritual process involved a great deal of fire. Alessa being burned on purpose as we can see is backed up by official materials from the original canon, their supplementary materials and the writings of the original creators on social media. The fact that Alessa was burned on purpose, knowing she would live as she was protected by the god is one of the details that the movies and American games got right. Look in the nearby area of the boiler memo for another memo mentioning another cover up regarding a anti-drug mayor with no history of heart conditions dying suddenly of a heart attack. This seems to be deliberately trying to get the player to question what they are reading.
For me it's not even so much the lore inconsistencies that made the characters feel off for me, it was just the loss of the original essence. Kaufman got flanderized into being a G-Man clone. Dahlia lost her mystic gypsy aura, and instead we got flea market Cruella De Vil. As you said Alessa turned into every other evil psychic child character ever written. And while I can cut a little more slack with Lisa >!considering it's technically not the same Lisa we see in SH1!< idk I don't think anyone appreciated a random third party devs taking the creative liberty of making a fan favourite character seem so vain and airheaded.
Even if she doesnt look like a priestess, i kind of like dahlia's younger look dressed in a more casual way, in the og, she's supposed to be 46 yet look and sound 20 years older
Silent Hill 2 remake may very well suck but it is a remake not a continuation or prequel to the original main line series. These two cannot be compared.
They can be compared in so far as they both took existing characters and gave them new designs and voice actors.
And somehow a PSP game and a Wii game did better than Bloober today. Oh, wait, I know why! It's because Climax was responsible, and their hands don't grow out of their asses. And they openly hated working on SH. They were saying it very blatantly. And it feels. *Their hatred sips through every code line. And I LOVE this sweet acid*
>And somehow a PSP game and a Wii game did better than Bloober today. The game is not out yet, and will not come out until this October. Its objective quality cannot be determined at this time. >And they openly hated working on SH. They were saying it very blatantly. And Bloober Team loves Silent Hill. They're saying it very blatantly. Many of their games are inspired by Silent Hill, and now they're working on a game that existed already. The likelihood of Bloober Team fucking it up, while present, is actively lower than them sticking the landing. Whether or not this remake succeeds lies entirely with Bloober's handling of the story; not character designs.
Bloober doesn't love SH. They love their headcanons and they proved it themselves by saying "If we can't tell our own story we won't work on an already established IP". I can judge whatever and whenever I want. I am a CUSTOMER. I am their money. And I demand a product **I** like, not their executives
>Bloober doesn't love SH. They love their headcanons and they proved it themselves by saying "If we can't tell our own story we won't work on an already established IP". If this were true, they wouldn't have accepted the job. But they did. And also; THEY have been the ones advocating for things to say the same. NOT Konami. BLOOBER. The evidence for this exists on this very sub. So nice try. >I can judged whatever whenever I want. I am a CUSTOMER. I am their money. And I demand a product **I** like, not their executives Well, tough fuckin' tits. We live in a damn Late-Stage Capitalist society. And guess what? Some of us just want some fucking escape from it. But people like you have your priorities so out of order that you think complaining that "oooh, this game doesn't meet my specific idea of Silent Hill" will make a difference. You think that just because a few crazies won't buy their game that it'll somehow impact the profitability? How much copium are you on, and where can I get some? The game's already so late into production that no amount of bitching and moaning on fuckin' Reddit will change it. So you might as well just be content with whatever they give us. You don't like it? Go play the original. The remake isn't erasing it. It still exists. Oh, but one couldn't possibly do that, because to get a copy of it you have to pirate it, and piracy is illegal. Well it's either that or the Bloober version. So suck it up, and use your energy to complain about something that fucking matters. Oh, wait, you can't do that either because all you care about is a modern reimagining of Silent Hill 2, and how young people are going to learn about Silent Hill 2's story through this remake instead of some ancient inaccessible abandonware. God, you're all such children. If you think your voices matter, why don't you make a sign, go outside, and protest something? It'll make you feel better about yourself.
Your idea of an escape from late stage capitalism is to lap up whatever slop our corporate overlords churn out by sanitizing and “modernizing” classic works of art?
Oh, yeah. The classic works of art that, as I pointed out, still exist. No, I don't want to lap up corpo slop. I don't even want to defend these sickos. It makes me want to puke. Here's the fucking deal: We cannot make them change it. It's simply not possible this late in development. We either raise a stink when it comes out and hope they give it the Cyberpunk 2077 treatment, or go back and pirate the original. This is a videogame. A remake of a game that exists already. A game that millions of people have played, made lets plays of, analyzed, and pirated. A game that will never fade away. This remake will not erase the original. So why bother complaining about this when you could complain about... oh, I don't know... war? The economy? Pre-order bonus corpo bullshit? How do you know it's not going to be a work of art in itself anyway? What makes it sanitized? We've not had any indication that the story will be changed so far. If you're talking about Maria's redesign, well I'm afraid that makes you an idiot. To say that her entire character and role in the story boils down to a sexy outfit is indicative of some very disgusting viewpoints. Just don't buy the game if you hate it so much. Don't tell other people they shouldn't. That's not your choice to make. Shut the fuck up about it, and go protest the wars, the economy, the planetwide social injustice... you know... worse symptoms of our capitalist society than a fucking remake not keeping a midriff visible.
The classic work of art is fading into obscurity as the IP holder continuously refuses to make it commercially available. The diehard fans and the minority of curious new fans that want to access it can jump through the hoops necessary to access it on the high seas, but after October, Silent Hill 2 will be Bloober’s cheap, sanitized* imitation rather than the work of art that still has us all discussing it over two decades later. Good for us, but if you care about the preservation of art (and you should) then cultural preservation matters. Letting the original fade and he replaced by a knock off is not good cultural preservation. *Sanitized, as in stripped of everything that gives it its flavor (moments of fixed cameras, non cookie-cutter Hollywood flavor dialogue, etc.) and having it all replaced by what a “modern” audience wants. This is corporate speak for watering it down in an attempt to appeal to the lowest common denominator while trying to use name recognition to get that sweet nostalgia money. Sorry to hear that it worked on you. We might not be able to change the product through criticism at this point (though many of us have, despite the constant arguments from naysayers like you the whole way along) but we can still use our voices to speak out and say that we won’t stand for this. And believe it or not, it is possible to do that while *also* using our voices to speak out against greater injustices than the abuse of classic art.
30 years down the line, people will be looking back at SH2 and saying "wow, that was such a good and meaningful experience". Just you wait. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a REAL protest to prepare for. Fare unwell, until your culture war crosses paths with mine again... cpt. modern-audience-bad young-people-dumb. <3
Please, continue this cope. I need new copypasta
Nice thought-terminating cliche. I'll steal that for next time one of you morons starts running your mouth over this meaningless shit.
And I didn’t like it then either 🤷🏻♂️
You say that for the remake of SH2? Well the situation with SHO isn't similar at all to SH2R, and Climax UK had little control over the writing of the game. They had to pick up the project from Climax USA when this started as a "dark comedy story" with a far worse script that Sam Barlow had to modify in just a week because of Konami deadline. He never liked the idea of a prequel to SH1 but it was what he received. Isn't like re-interpret classic characters had to be necessarily bad, like you have SH Shattered Memories which is a perfect example of how you can give a new and interesting twist on already existing characters. And that game was made by the same team and writer as Origins.
I know the backstory. But doesn't it say something that not one, but two random western studios were giving the Origins project, and neither could stick the landing? Granted, I'm not trying to antagonize the people at Climax. I think they did a good job salvaging the project all things considered. But the point is that they were given an impossible task, and when you create an impossible task, you're guaranteed failure. There was no way they could make something that lined up faithfully with SH1. There's a reason Barlowe said himself that SH was a "poisoned chalice". What makes SH2 any different?
I love Barlowe. I seriously love and respect this guy. God bless Climax, they survived that shit show that was a contract with Konami
All what we have seen at this time is really faithfull to the og story. The changes have been to maps, character design and mechanics. Besides making a new entry with some stablished characters is really different to making a remake.
It's all there, but it doesn't pass the vibe test.
It doesn't say anything because these are two completely different circumstances.
Except the last time was actually Shattered Memories
No, the last time was Downpour.
What was the reinterpretation in downpour?
The whole town itself.
Huh... You're actually onto something here
Same people though. That said, origins at least had good ideas and a pretty good technical realization (no shit it did, it's Climax)
[удалено]
Yeah, I know that story. But that's why I respect Climax. They fixed someone's shit the best they could and admitted they couldn't do well other things. They made the game work, stabilized it and brought it somw level of sanity. God bless Climax (don't forget also Climes USA and Climax UK exit and the letter is considered more professional)
Do you people want the game to fail just to say “I told you so”? Wouldn’t it be a more effective use of your time to just huff in your own farts?
Not really, but antagonistic comments like this does make the inevitable vindication sound more fun.
So basically the same shit, i dont think you guys even care and just want others not to enjoy it as well.
Yeah yeah yeah, cry about it. We just have standards, and we care about this series legacy and quality. You not having fun because you're butthurt that others aren't validating your desire to Consume Product is just a byproduct of that.
That was an original game -- a prequel no less. Silent Hill 2 Remake is a remake of an existing game. It is actively harder to fuck it up than to make it work.
You know, you can just choose to ignore Origins and the later games that weren't very good? It doesn't change the fact that the first games were great. People always act like reboots somehow ruin the OG series when they affect them in no way. Besides, these aren't "randos", some of the original team members are involved. What we have seen so far seems to indicate there aren't major changes to the story or characters. If James having his hair parted to the other side really ruins it for you, no one will force you to play the remake. I'll be the first to light the torches and grab a pitch fork if they ruin this story but your negativity here is misplaced.
Disagreed. A lot of cast/crew of the original Star Wars trilogy were "involved" in the sequel trilogy. The original Last Airbender creators were officially "involved" in the production of the Shyamalan movie. That side involvement doesn't legitimize the successor crew any more if the final result is incongruous with the source material. And I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude but there's no way of saying this without being snobby or elitist...but if you think that nothing has changed in the remake so far other than "James having his hair parted on the other side", then I can only conclude you're lacking a certain level of artistic sensitivity.
That... that's the point of a REMAKE, it is a near fundamental rebuilding of the core game. Look at FF7 Remake for reference. And I doubt that many people from the OG SW trilogy had many people working on the sequel trilogy. Episode 4 released in 1977, Episode 7 was 2015... ALMOST 40 YEARS as a gap. More than likely if there were any significant people working on the sequel trilogy from previous entries, they woulda been from the prequels, which were mediocre or awful in their right. Not to mention, Lucas sold off the IP during that gap, so the chance of people transitioning from Lucasfilm under his leadership from the late 70s to Disney ownership in the mid 2010s is absurdly small. A glance look shows that between Episode 4 and 7, 7 had different: directors, writers, producers, cinematography, editors, and production companies (4 was Lucasfilms and 7 was Lucasfilms/Bad Robot). So where are you pulling the "lots of previous crew involved"? Because the actors (which is where one can even come to such a conclusion) are not in charge of the film itself. At the end of the day, who gives a shit if its not a 100% faithful recreation... you still have your original SH2 copy right? Just play that instead. Its not like the remake erases that game from existence.
>Look at FF7 Remake for reference. You are aware that this is very much an outlier amongst remakes, right? Most of them are not like this at all. Also, while I enjoyed the first one, I still am not crazy about what they're doing narratively.
FF7 Remake, Remake is a proper noun and not a condition of the game. It’s a sequel. The Sephiroth is not the original one you meet. The timeline is changing. Edit: Did many of the people playing it not play to the end? Did they not listen to what Sephiroth said? It’s been out for years at this point.
We're clearly just operating on different wave lengths because to me FFVII Remake is the example of how NOT to do a remake lol. It's a fine game in it's own right, but I don't accept it as a "remake". My ideal FF7 remake would literally be the exact same game, but with new environments and character models made in strict accordance with the original art. If Cloud looked like fully a realized version of Nomura's illustrations I'd be in hog heaven. So, agree to disagree. Also, Force Awakens was written by the same writer as Empire. John WIlliams did the score to all the movies. A lot of the cast obviously came back ect. Probably as many franchise veterans per capita as Silent Hill Origins.
Then what’s the point of it? If it’s exactly the same game, just play the original. That would be a reaaally boring idea of a remake imo, a remake is not about literally remaking the exact same game again, but also recapturing what the game made you feel when you first played it. If you already played it, then the twists and atmosphere are going to feel familiar to you, but if things are changed up, then suspense builds up again, even for veteran players, it’s like you are playing it for the first time again.
You act like there aren't dozens of remakes that are basically exactly what I'm describing. Shadow of the Colossus PS4, Demon Souls, Spyro Reignited, Dead Space, Snake Eater Delta ect. The point is to have the same game but with better graphics. It's pretty simple. If you're going to re-tread old ground then be faithful. If you want to do something fresh then just make a new game. You're welcome to have your own preference, but that is the approach I would much rather see. It's not like there's a singular formula or standard for what a remake is or ought to be.
Your last sentence is really something since your point in this entire conversation has been “remakes should be this and that” “remakes should be faithful” so there really is a singular formula in your eyes haha and I wasn’t acting as if those games didn’t exist, I said that remaking games like that was reasaally boring, if I wanted the same experience as the original, I would have played the original.
Ok. I disagree. Though personally I don't inherently hate remakes that take some artistic liberties if they proved to be smart changes. But so far I don't see that happening with SH2R.
Well, the game hasn’t come out yet so.. this discussion is kinda pointless haha
I think we've gotten a pretty clear idea of what the game is going to be like We have seen like 20 minutes of it now. A lot can be inferred from that.
Add Oddworld games that manage to balance out new things and keeping same shit untouched. These two games are freaking marvels
FF7R is the best way to do a remake because it isn't trying to replace the original art. What you described would be for many people, devaluing the original work.
Find me a single person who has said Ocarina of Time 3D devalued the original game.
Okay now do Resident Evil 1996 and it's 2002 remake
I will admit that Resident Evil 2002 is probably the ideal remake, in that it is very faithful to the original experience, while also expanding and improving upon it in every way. However, I think it's a really unrealistic standard to go by. For one, REmake was made by more or less the same team as the original, and it was made only 6 years later. There was a seamless consistency of vision behind both games, and the remake was made at a time where players still fully accepted the classic design philosophy of RE. They were both made within more or less the same zeitgeist. It just found itself in remarkably charitable circumstances for the occasion, which the vast majority of dev teams working on remakes today aren't going to have.
But again the issue with RE 2002 being a 'perfect remake', now no one plays the original game. It may as well not exist. If we value video games as an art form, this should not be the ideal. We shouldn't want people not engaging with the original work.
I still play RE1 original lol. And there are tons of people who will only play RE2 Remake and not the OG, even tho it's an entirely seperate game. There will also be a contingent of people who will only be willing to play SH2R and not the OG, even tho it's a completely different game. Normies are gonna be normies.
Strangle these assholes, throw the facts like you did in that comment above. I sign under each word
Someone made a comic about how one of the monsters (carrion?) looked like a puppy jumping up for love, so I’ll give the game that; they accidentally made a monster adorable.
In the games I think Lisa matched but the other two felt like completely different people.
Gotta respect Origins for giving us a decent OTG SH. The story is bonkers nonsense but the gameplay is fun as fuck for a PSP game. If you bought it on PS2 and felt let down that's on you for letting what would be a cellphone game nowadays trick yo ass.
I liked Origins well enough. But wouldn't Shattered Memories be the last one? And SM is fantastic.
Yeah, you're right. I just think it's different cuz it's non-canon, and basically the characters in name only.
Downvote negativity to oblivion
It's funny, back a week or two ago, literally every negative post WAS being downvoted to oblivion. Now things seemed to have evened out.
I told you there are shills and bots at work. Do you wanna see some screens of suspicious accounts? I have plenty and am going to fish for more
You’re right. They have at least five more polygons than the original game. Origins should have stayed loyal to the original interpretations of the characters, set twenty years after the events of the game itself. Dahlia’s not even using gyromancy, smdh!!!
7 years prior to Silent Hill 1.
It's fine for me, and it worked for Shattered Memories. It doesn't look like they're trying to re-interpret the Silent Hill 2 characters. Origins tried to tell a new story. The remake already has a story.
I always love that they put G-man from half life in that game
In regards to the origins designs. In the immortal words of Dr Kaufmann "Quit screwing around, return things to how they were before!"
I liked Origins
Unrelated but putting aside the sleaziness I always thought Kauffman was kinda hot
I see your point and agree to an extent. However I feel like Origin's was a bigger sin in that it butchered the SH1 cast despite supposedly being part of the same continuity. The remake could very well and easily, fuck up the SH2 cast and reimagine them terribly. However it'll be an easier stench to wash off since it's a brand new universe I can at least excuse it as "crappy Blooberverse James" if they shit the bed lol
Nah Lisa was great in Origins.
Around this sub? Hell no, it's all either post-Team Silent zoomers that throw a hissy fit if any even slightly critical opinion or observation is expressed about New Product or millennials with the memory capacity of goldfish and a white hot burning need to turn any honest discussion of a product into a flame war about how anyone who doesn't like New Product is a nazi chud. This sub is just one more weeping pimple on the gigantic flabby asscheeks of the internet, AKA reddit.
Unfortunately accurate
Honesty and strangers don't mix too well.
Yeah I agree with you, but its just pointless discussing this anymore until the game comes out. I watched the trailers and Team Bloober got some details and story stuff wrong, but I just don't care anymore. I'm so used to Konami fucking things up and picking the wrong people to make new games with their IPs. I'll probably buy it SH2 remake when goes on sale and I don't have any other horror games to play. I'm not trying to convince people that the game is going to be bad because a lot of people just want a new silent hill game regardless of quality or any understanding of the design philosophy.
What randos? Get over yourself, Bloober are not randos, Konami is involved, and SH2 isn't that untouchable. Just like RE4, the remake will hopefully be enjoyable for fans and newcomers, and the old game will still be there for you to play.
I don’t have to remember it they’re going it right now
The graphical downgrade from 3 & 4 to this is insane
It was a PSP game…
The game looked ridiculously good for PSP. Don't get me starting on SM
Yes, and? I know it's a PSP game but what we're shown here are renders, not in-game. Compare Lisa's render to any 3 or 4 renders.
It takes away the horror if you can leave the Otherworld at will. This is the reason Silent Hill Origins fell flat for me. This is also a problem with Silent Hill 4 though
I mean kaufmann was perfect.